Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Consistently wrong since 2002

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

Disappointing to see gov. newsom with his finger to the wind.

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

President Musk and Trump are both poorly raised, coddled 8 year old boys.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

They punch you in the face and then start crying because their fist hurts.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

You passed on an opportunity to be offended? What are you even doing here?

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

If ‘weird’ was the finish line, they ran through the tape and kept running.

The revolution will be supervised.

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Monday Morning Open Thread: There Will Be NOISE

Monday Morning Open Thread: There Will Be NOISE

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*Bursts into applause*


Tiny voice: never mind…

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339Comments

  1. 1.

    Jertian

    Media will be all in for *that asshole* right up to the point he has them lined up against a wall.

  4. 4.

    Tony Jay

    Seems like this fits here as well as the early thread.

    Every single Democrat within grabbing distance of a microphone needs to be cutting right through the corporate media chaff and demanding that the journalists ask them about the devastating revelations coming out about Trump’s close and sinister relationship with Epstein.

    No fucking about. No ‘acknowledging concerns’. Just “The President has dealt with this nonsense in detail and the Democratic Party is looking forward to serving the country during his second term in office. Let’s move on to your questions about the Republican candidate’s close friendship with an acknowledged sexual offender and pimp to the rich and powerful. Let me start by saying that like all Americans, I am disgusted by these revelations and call on the Republican Party to explain why they think it’s acceptable that Donald Trump, himself a convicted felon and sex offender, should remain their Party’s standard bearer and leader.”

    Over and over. Every chance they get. If they have to chase fleeing journalists down the steps of the Capitol building demanding to be asked questions about the Trump/Epstein Circle they should do that. Make the GOP and their Media chums own their attempt to cover this up.

    A few weeks of that should make for interesting polling, and give the Warners of the world a kick to the clacks.

  5. 5.

    Suzanne

    If it makes anyone feel better, even just a little…… Tom Nichols xhitted this (I don’t know to to link to tweets) this morning:

    People on the right are so desperate to believe that everyone is as morally compromised as they are. The Republicans are openly celebrating a sociopath; the Democrats picked a decent old guy and are in the middle of a public debate about that choice.

    No comparison. The divide is the starkest it has ever been.

  6. 6.

    Phylllis

    I can’t help but think that the results in Great Britain and France are also propelling the American media’s narrative.

  8. 8.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    Finally cut the cord with the FTFNYT. I’d stopped my subscription but was still buying the Sunday paper at the store. Last week I noticed they had a huge stack of unsold papers instead of the usual 3-4. Don’t know how many they had this week as I didn’t bother going to the store.

  9. 9.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    There are days where my mind goes “Name one problem Joe Biden has that Trump doesn’t.”

    Then I realized I could name two:

    He has a stutter.

    He’s actually doing the most difficult job on the planet.

    I really, really don’t want to have to discuss this with people here, who are outside observers, but are getting a steady diet of the puke funnel from the MSM anyway. Saw an op-ed in a Greek paper talking about Biden’s “arrogance” and “feeling that it was his turn”.

    Relegating Trump and Trumpism to the ash-heap of history is all that matters. And I still think the best bet is riding with Biden. Any alternative hare-brained scheme will result in the GOP seizing power. And that will be The End.

  10. 10.

    Suzanne

    And Rachel Bitecofer….

    The coalition that came together to beat back French fascism hates each other.

    There’s a lesson in 👆

    This is a solid point.
    We are fractious, we can have loud and public disagreements, and sometimes be disarrayed….. but we don’t have to be friends to be allies.

  11. 11.

    Ken

    @Tony Jay: Everyone could adopt the Trump debate tactic, of waiting for the question to end then saying whatever the hell you want, whether or not it was related to the question (or for that matter, consensus reality).

  13. 13.

    TBone

    Repost in celebration:

    Fascists are scared.  Good.

    …France has been flooded with Russian disinformation trying to create divisions in society as Putin seeks to break European support for Ukraine. Russia openly supports Le Pen.

    The U.K. also has been similarly flooded with Russian disinformation for years now. Russian trolls lie on social media websites and populate the comments sections of popular websites both to end support for Ukraine and to exploit wedge issues to split people apart.

    These efforts were part of what Russian political theorists called “political technology”: the construction of a virtual political reality through modern media…

    https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/july-7-2024

    Reminder:  the more trolls, the greater the fear.  I love the smell of their fear in the morning.

    I see England, I see France, and I can see your underpants!

  14. 14.

    Ken

    @Phylllis: I can’t help but think that the results in Great Britain and France are also propelling the American media’s narrative.

    Not quite following, unless you mean the media thinks we need a fascist United States as a counterbalance to the leftist* parties that won in the UK and France?

    * OK, left-ish, in deference to Tony Jay.

  15. 15.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Tony Jay:

    Keep repeating it.

    I said last night always have a mission statement and when in doubt, anything you do or say comes back to the mission statement (thank you USMC Command & Staff College):

    “The election is about saving US democracy. Who’s gonna do that, the old guy who’s character and record are pretty awesome or the 34 Felonies Dude who hobnobbed with with a pedophile pimp?

    And Dobbs.”

    That’s a mission statement.

  16. 16.

    Betty Cracker

    Does anyone have a link to the new CNN poll that shows 91% Dem support cited in a tweet above?

  17. 17.

    Kay

    I love you guys but that CNN poll is terrible for Biden

    ”Biden wins” picked the only number in the poll that could be considered positive for Biden – consolidation among Democrats, which any Democrat would get going into the home stretch, and which is still lower than Trumps consolidation among Republicans. Even that only went from 87 to 91

    I swear to God we’re poll unskewers now. It reminds me of Romney backers in 2012. Whatever the positives of Biden, poll numbers  are not one of them. His polling is uniformly terrible.

  22. 22.

    nevsky42

    @Spanky: Hey, thanks for the reminder!  As a Virginia resident I have to call his office.  Given my nature I’ll mildly express my displeasure and leave out how he hasn’t been relevant since the aughts…

  23. 23.

    Bugboy

    @Ken: That, of course, is what they tell you to say on the witness stand, but also isn’t that a tried and true way for politicians to (not) answer a question?

  24. 24.

    Kay

    And if he’s consolidated Democrats @90 and is still running behind Trump that just means Trump is getting indies to break for him, which is what the poll says

    ”Biden Wins” didnt link to it for a reason

  28. 28.

    WereBear

    Let their ratings drop some more. We see the ones without a spine. That’s what the Keys to the Presidency says is what we lack.

    While Republicans have no principles.

    So I’m riding with Biden, and it never crossed my mind this would actually come up.

    Because if I had an employee with such stellar metrics who kept forgetting their lunch I would BUY them lunch every day. They obviously have their eyes on the prize, no?

  30. 30.

    Fair Economist

    @Tony Jay:

    Every single Democrat within grabbing distance of a microphone needs to be cutting right through the corporate media chaff and demanding that the journalists ask them about the devastating revelations coming out about Trump’s close and sinister relationship with Epstein.

    This. Every time there’s any question about Biden’s electability, the response should be talking about his close association with that notorious pedophile, running the most corrupt administration in history (more Trump appointees were indicted than in *all previous administrations combined* over the past 100 years, the fact that jobs actually *fell* during his administration, his appointing rafts of crooked judges, etc.

  31. 31.

    Tony Jay

    @Ken:

    Hey, you fish in the lake you’re in, and if the fish need dynamite to get them floating…

      OK, left-ish, in deference to Tony Jay

    Ha. They’d expel you from the Party for even suggesting they’re Lefties. Terrible insult. 🤫

  32. 32.

    trnc

    @Tony Jay: Every single Democrat within grabbing distance of a microphone needs to be cutting right through the corporate media chaff and demanding that the journalists ask them about the devastating revelations coming out about Trump’s close and sinister relationship with Epstein.

    FTW.

  35. 35.

    Phylllis

    @Ken: They want Trump, so they keep beating the ‘Joe should drop out’ drum harder and harder to drown out any other narrative or evidence.

  39. 39.

    Kay

    Three-quarters of US voters say the Democratic Party would have a better shot at holding the presidency in 2024 with someone other than President Joe Biden at the top of the ticket, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS. His approval rating also has hit a new low following a shaky performance in the first debate of this year’s presidential campaign.

    Biden’s support among Democratic voters has inched up to 91% from 85% in April, while 93% of Republicans back Trump (about even since April). Trump maintains a roughly 10-point advantage among independents (44% to 34% in the new poll), while the share of independents who choose neither candidate or say they do not plan to vote has climbed from 15% to 21%.

  40. 40.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR:

    There are days where my mind goes “Name one problem Joe Biden has that Trump doesn’t.”

    Then I realized I could name two:

    He has a stutter.

    “He eats ice cream!” NYT

  42. 42.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Tangentially related as we’ve talked about the role turnout and ballot measures might have on the election vis a vis abortion rights in state constitutions, this is why it’s important to get those passed:

    https://lawrencekstimes.com/2024/07/05/kssupct-affirms-abortion-rights/

    American Taliban legislators in KS still trying to ram thru anti-abortion laws only to be thwarted by that pesky item in the state constitution that those pesky voters in the state saw the need to have in order to save them from American Taliban legislators.

  43. 43.

    Scout211

    I tried to post a positive comment into the open thread that turned contentious (again!) last night.  I will repost here.

    This is smart of the Biden campaign:

    White House announces Republican National Convention counterprogramming events

    The White House announced several events with President Joe Biden during the Republican National Convention next week as Republicans get set to formally nominate Donald Trump for another presidential run.

    Biden will hold several events reaching out to people of color, delivering remarks commemorating the 60th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act in Austin, Texas, on July 15. On July 16, he will deliver remarks at the NAACP National Convention in Las Vegas, and on July 17, he will stay in the city to give remarks at the UnidosUS Annual Conference.

    All of this comes as the president forges ahead with his reelection campaign amid growing calls among Democrats for him to drop out following a disastrous debate performance last month.

  46. 46.

    M31

    @Fair Economist:  “jobs actually *fell* during his administration”

     

    Biden pointed this out in his WI rally the other day — adding that the only other Pres to do that was Hoover.

  47. 47.

    satby

    @TBone: that’s why I posted it. But the mania for repeating comments from one thread to the other, or even highlighting them as a front page post “so it’s not missed” is unnecessary. The same 100 or so people are reading and commenting in almost every thread. They’ve seen it. Let’s not dumb it down further around here.

  50. 50.

    3Sice

    When idiots like Van Jones and nepo-McCain are using the flaccid “one way or another….” 

    Their producers are telling them to wrap it up, we need to cut to this hurricane.

  51. 51.

    TBone

    “You can lead a horticulture, but you can’t make her think.”

    – Dorothy Parker

  55. 55.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @rikyrah:

    In our titled media playing field, it only takes *one* Dem for it to be portrayed as divisive.

    Others have commented on how the campaign is starting to push back directly at the media and how that might be a good thing.  I wasn’t sure one way or the other until I saw some pundit say it was a sign of campaign weakness when the campaign started beating on the media.

    That’s when I decided going after them (the way we do on a day-to-day basis or tap into what DougJ clearly articulates) is A. Good. Thing.

  60. 60.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @rikyrah:

    Josh Kraushaar (@JoshKraushaar) posted at 6:16 AM on Mon, Jul 08, 2024:

    “It was lost on nobody, in the White House or on Capitol Hill, that the ranking House Democrats who used an instantly leaked Sunday conference call to express their preference for Biden to drop out did not include one Black lawmaker.”

    1) Did these goddamn idiots forget, the reason why Biden got nominated in 2019 was he was the only prominent old white man in the GOP not sporting policy that made them uncomfortable like Sanders?

    2) and I am asking myself, was part of Biden’s thinking in choosing Harris as VP was not only would he please three important D voter groups; blacks, women and Westerners, but he knew these idiots D behind their names would try and force his resignation the first small setback, and having a black woman from West of the Rockies as president would be beyond the pale for them?

  61. 61.

    TBone

    Alex Cole xit meme (features infamous photo):

    Remember, there are 76 photos of Trump and Epstein together, Trump doesn’t even have that many photos with his own kids.

  62. 62.

    Scout211

    @Elizabelle: Is your climate back into double digits?

    Nope.  It looks like we might see the high 90s starting on the 14th for a few days but then they are forecasting another round of triple digits for at least a week.  It’s going to be a long hot July for the western states.

  63. 63.

    trnc

    @Kay: ​
     

    Oh, the Tweeter isn’t “confused”

    the tweeter did this deliberately

    Yeah, I figured. Thanks for also highlighting. I love the enthusiasm here, but I hate to see BS amplified on either side. “Ours” doesn’t help us because we’ll actually dig into it, while the other side laps theirs up with a spoon.

    I love BJ and other blogs, but we need to slow our roll a little and not fall for happy bullshit. The stakes are too high for people to be drawn in by it.

  64. 64.

    Kay

    @TBone:

    It is just horrifying, that the United States could elect this absolute scumbag who raped 13 and 14 year old girls. I want the investigation into the DOJ lawyers who handled Epstein re-opened. None of them should be employed by the public.

  66. 66.

    daveNYC

    Hey poll people, how do you square this result with polls showing Trump winning 57% of the youth vote in their cross tabs?

    I mean, 17% of any demographic group being really stupid doesn’t seem like much of a stretch.

  68. 68.

    Geminid

    The Nato Summit is in DC this year, beginning tomorrow and running until Thursday (July 9-11). Armenia is not a member, but that country received an invitation this year.

    My guess is that Prime Minister Pashinyan will attend. Pashinyan is intent on settling his country’s 32 year-long conflict with Azerbaijan, a policy controversial within Armenia and among the Armenian diaspora. He also wants to move Armenia out of Russia’s sphere of influence; hence the Nato invitation.

  69. 69.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR:

    Relegating Trump and Trumpism to the ash-heap of history is all that matters. And I still think the best bet is riding with Biden. Any alternative hare-brained scheme will result in the GOP seizing power. And that will be The End.

    Nailed it. That’s our mission for this election.

    Biden is running, therefore we work all-out to:

    (1) amplify the good his administration has accomplished;

    (2) make sure people know about the evil the Felon has planned in Project 2025 etc. (thank you, Taraji P. Henson);

    (3) GOTV.

    At this point, everything else is mental masturbation. Fine for those folks who enjoy it, I suppose, but I don’t want to live under authoritarian rule. The stakes are too high to fap about.

  71. 71.

    TBone

    @Kay: agreed.  As was astutely pointed out here by Tony Jay, a pivot to that subject is in order.  One can hope…

  72. 72.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @3Sice: Note what part of the Dems I was talking about, it’s easy to get the parties mixed up with those clowns.

  73. 73.

    Kay

    @trnc:

    It has to turn around for us to win. It can’t stay on the same trajectory.

    Democratic electeds want to win! They’re not fucking conspiring against Joe Biden! If there’s a poll that shows a dramatic turn around you’ll see it, because it will be everywhere. The thinking that says everyone but Joe Biden is agin us is scary to me – shades of Trump supporters.

  79. 79.

    Soprano2

    @TBone:  I think the fact that they think this blog is worthy of their attention tells you how scared they are.

  80. 80.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @trnc:

    so it wasn’t bullshit

    Ok then. Dems are not in disarray after all. Time to stop fighting each other and get to work.

  81. 81.

    Elizabelle

    @Scout211: my sympathies.  In Virginia, we have several days of rain in the forecast.  Welcome, because we were in drought conditions.

  83. 83.

    Kay

    @trnc:

    No, it’s still bullshit. “Enthusiastic” is bullshit. Cherry picking the single somewhat positive number in a very bad poll for Biden and “Biden Wins” posting it as some kind of triumph against our enemies in the Democratic Party is bullshit.

  84. 84.

    dc

    @Kay: It’s Biden-Harris or no one. Those are the facts. There will be no magic fairy coming in to change that reality. So the only option is to get on the Biden-Harris bus and get everyone else on board or you’re voting for Trump.

    This isn’t to say stop pointing out the real challenges, just that if that includes proposing some magic candidate change, then it’s a waste of breath and leads us down the path to Trump.

  85. 85.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I agree that the polls aren’t great, which is why all this idiocy is dumb. Did you see the thread where someone laid out all the problems there would be with replacing Biden/Harris on the ballot at this point in time? It’s journalistic malpractice that they don’t ask any of the people pushing this idea about any of that stuff! Democrats should have coalesced around Biden/Harris even more, and turned the conversation back to how bad TCFG is and Project 2025, which is extremely unpopular. Instead, a few panicky Democrats gave the press exactly what they want, and they were off to the races. I have no idea why they do that!

  86. 86.

    Elizabelle

    @rikyrah: Yes.  The UK.  France. Mexico.  Why I don’t believe independents are breaking for Trump.  Or will.

  87. 87.

    Chris

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR:

    I really, really don’t want to have to discuss this with people here, who are outside observers, but are getting a steady diet of the puke funnel from the MSM anyway. Saw an op-ed in a Greek paper talking about Biden’s “arrogance” and “feeling that it was his turn”.

    Same thing for me when I went back to France in January.  “Ugh, Biden’s old, and he should’ve prepared a transition to another candidate by now, also there’s too much wokeness in the United States.”

    When it comes to America, European news (foreign news in general) takes a lot of its cues simply from the MSM, since that’s the easiest thing to read with an endless amount of material.  The longstanding chip on shoulder when it comes to the United States, and proliferation of conspiracy theories that lead back to it, also don’t help, as they create an environment that’s pretty fertile for believing anything that makes the U.S. government look bad.  I was pretty young when I lived in Paris in the late nineties, but IIRC there was plenty of crap against Bill Clinton at the time too – although to their credit even they usually found the fact that BlowjobGate was a scandal too ridiculous for words.

    And since Greece actually has legitimate beef with the U.S. messing around in its politics in relatively recent history, I don’t imagine it’s any better there than further west.

  88. 88.

    Soprano2

    @Fair Economist: They need to bring up Project 2025 too, and have a talking point about it ready to tell the reporter about. Every.single.time. It’s as if none of these people have ever campaigned before.

  89. 89.

    Mike E

    @trnc: Lies. Damn Lies. Statistics. Polls.

    Updated Mark Twain, something to keep in mind in the midst of all the dooming and truthing going on here.

  90. 90.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: That three-quarters of US voters have no idea of the difficulty of replacing Biden. The time for this conversation was a year ago, not four months before the election. I think without having a named candidate, that number is meaningless anyway. Once you name someone, many of them might change their minds.

  91. 91.

    The Thin Black Duke

    When we were children, we believed in fantasies like the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus.

    Nowadays, too many (white) adults believe that the MNM is trustworthy. That’s a fantasy too.

    People living in the margins of America know better. We know they’re damned liars. Always were.

  94. 94.

    narya

    For all D Congresscritters, etc., who are asked about Biden’s age: “I’m excited that Joe Biden is our nominee–he has done, is doing, and will do a great job for the American people. He’s working hard on behalf of everyone, not just the super-wealthy. His opponent, on the other hand, nominated the judges who took away women’s bodily autonomy. That decision alone continues to put anyone who can become pregnant at risk. And have you seen the details of Project 2025? Do the American people really want to allow them to destroy our national parks? I’m surprised you continue to ask these questions about the democratic nominee–our very lives are at stake and you continue ignore the danger that our opponent poses to the American way of life.

    ETA: all politicians are skilled at answering the question they want to answer. Start doing that, FFS.

  95. 95.

    O. Felix Culpa

    And I’m out. Times are tough. The stakes are high. Not all the numbers are ideal. But there’s no guarantee that they’d be better with Mystery Replacement Candidate. Plus you’d introduce a whole host of practical problems that AL highlighted in her dawn post.

    Our choices then? Either give up or fight, because Biden isn’t going away.

    Keep fucking chickens, those of you who find it pleasurable. I’m going to work.

  98. 98.

    Soprano2

    @rikyrah: I think it’s pretty telling of some of the press that they’re trying to turn regular prep for a presidential event into some kind of “see this proves Biden is old and unfit” scandal. They’re grasping.

  99. 99.

    WereBear

    Dementia, dementia, dementia. I’m sure lots of Trump voters know the signs.

    They’ve lived with loved ones going downhill. Take the guns from Pawpaw, take the distributor cap from Granny’s car, start a system of checking on them and running errands for them.

    At least, here in mountain country.

  100. 100.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    Did you see the thread where someone laid out all the problems there would be with replacing Biden/Harris on the ballot at this point in time?

    I’ll read it but I hope it’s reliable. Rachel Bitcoiner has been posting made up shit about how Biden can’t be “replaced” by Harris on ballots for days. She’s wrong. Biden’s not on ballots until he’s nominated.
    My position is I will support whatever the Party decides, and I will, but I will not play this game. It’s too important for us to be lying to ourselves.
    It’s great that he’s doing some campaign events. Obama regularly did 3 or more a day, in different states. The last 100 days will require a GRUELING schedule, not one event a day, especially because he’s now 5 behind. None of what he is doing will reassure Dem electeds. It’s not enough and that’s not some special high goal for Biden – it’s just standard campaigning. I love Biden but this is what is required. It would be required of anyone.

  102. 102.

    Soprano2

    @Elizabelle: They’re forecasting here that Hurricane Beryl might direct some rain our way. It would be welcome, we’re starting to get dry. We’ve had scattered showers, but we need more widespread rain.

  103. 103.

    p.a.

    @Kay:  It is just horrifying, that the United States could elect this absolute scumbag who raped 13 and 14 year old girls. I want the investigation into the DOJ lawyers who handled Epstein re-opened. None of them should be employed by the public.

     

     

     

     

    People of color have known of the rot in local AND national security apparatus (Hoover etc.) forever.  Leftists as well.  Normies now have all the evidence they need, from the Secret Service, FBI DoJ, Supreme fucking Court etc on down.  If they want to look.

  104. 104.

    Bupalos

    @Kay: A lot of folks are in full “was it over when Hitler bombed Pearl Harbor?!” mode, and I say just let ‘em roll.

  105. 105.

    rikyrah

     

    LanaQuest aka RosaSparks (@LqLana) posted at 0:25 PM on Sun, Jul 07, 2024:

    Black military.

    Black educated.

    Black success.

    All make racists rabid. They call them “uppity” while also calling Black people lazy.

    During Jim Crow successful Black people were targeted. Farms and property stolen. Black people lynched and brutalized, forced to move with only the clothes on their backs. Generational wealth destroyed.

    Despite it all some were still able to prosper.

    Now, under Biden, the Black community has opportunity. Through loan programs. Loan forgiveness. Job creation. Higher wages. The numbers don’t lie, Republicans do.

    They hate these numbers. Behind the scenes red states are defunding grant programs for Black businesses. They are saying that when you help Black entrepreneurs you are discriminating against white people. They have targeted DEI.

    A Trump presidency would throw away this progress and surely destroy Black businesses and prosperity,
    #DemsUnited #VoteBlue

    https://t.co/GsnadtgLPv
    (https://x.com/LqLana/status/1810002132592169103?s=02)

  106. 106.

    moonbat

    Yeah, all the polls in France said the Le Pen folks were going to clean up…annnnnnnnd…they DIDN’T! A lefty-ish coalition got together to defeat them. Why don’t we take that as a blueprint and instead of eating our own, press forward to get an important message out.

    Surprise! Most folks don’t like fascism. Project 2025 is a blueprint for fascism in bullet point form. Why don’t we hammer that instead of our president?

    I said it in a thread last night but it bears repeating. The only polls that matter right now are the ones we’re not seeing. The GQP’s internal polls are telling them that they are facing a tsunami of defeat. Chris Bouzy on Spoutible did a whole hour on this yesterday. He is research is showing a blue wave for us if we stick with Biden/Harris with all the abortion issues on the ballots in key states. The Rs are scared shitless, hence the balls to the wall attempt to make this election about Biden’s age and not about their sick pedophile convicted felon candidate and his agenda for a new American kingship. Put the ball back in their court and ask them why people should vote for TCFFG.

  107. 107.

    schrodingers_cat

    As for pretensions. Let’s also not pretend that the ones baying for Biden’s blood did not want him to be the nominee in 2020 in the first place. They were Warrenstans or BS or bust type people. They hated it that he defeated their faves. And yes if you don’t trust me do a Google check of their comments on this blog and/or tweets from 4 years ago

    They didn’t like it that a largely black electorate from South Carolina cast that decisive primary vote for Biden. The last 7 months were Biden is toast because of Gaza or the economy sucks because housing is not as cheap as it was for the Boomers. Now the same people have become experts in medicine, especially geriaratrics.

    And though some of them may be pretending to be Harris supporters right now. That will change if she is at the top of the ticket. I was not born yesterday.

  108. 108.

    Soprano2

    @dc: Morning Edition had this interview with Tom Florsheim, a business leader. There was not one question about a) who do you favor to replace Biden/Harris (this idiot was talking about making a choice at the convention) or b) any of the many difficulties a new campaign would have. The interviewer could have asked him “As a businessman surely you understand there would be many logistical hurdles to a completely new campaign at this point, don’t you think that would be a problem?”

  109. 109.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    That’s fine. That’s a real reason for not subbing Harris for Biden.

    I would only disagree in that I think there’s probably upside (it’s not all downside) but obviously no one knows how much upside. But I would assume there’s some, just because now nearly 20% of Indies say they won’t participate at all – they won’t vote for either. They’re probably actually persuadable. That’s a big chunk of voters. They may come back in.

  112. 112.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @dc: May all the gods forgive me for channeling the late, unlamented Donald Rumsfeld, may he continue to rot in hell, but:

    We go to the election with the candidate we have, not the candidate we wish we might have at some point in the future.

    The difference being, Rumsfeld slid past the point that we didn’t have to go to war, while we don’t have a choice. The election’s coming, like it or not, and while it’s far from a sure thing – so was D-Day, and Eisenhower was fully prepared for it to be a disaster – I don’t see that any option other than backing Biden-Harris gives us better odds than we have right now.

    If Biden bows out in favor of Harris, the GOP’s already made it clear they’re going to make their full-court press against Hillary Clinton look like a children’s tea party. And they’ve already indicated they’re going to go to court to challenge any attempt to change the top line on the ballots, just to make things that much more difficult for us to stop Trump and the GOP.

    Biden has problems. But like I said above, he doesn’t have a single substantive problem that isn’t shared by his opponent, who just happens to have a complicit mass-media machine on his side.

    It’s four months to election day. Biden had one bad night. And our side has overperformed the opinion polls in just about every election since Dobbs destroyed Roe v. Wade.

    This is going to be difficult. But difficult isn’t the same as impossible.

  113. 113.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: A lot of what that thread talks about are the logistics of standing up a campaign. I think it’s mostly right. I’ll support whatever Democrat is at the top of the ticket, but the time to have this conversation was a year ago, or two years ago. Having it now like this is counterproductive IMHO.

  114. 114.

    Kay

    @Bupalos:

    Whatever decision gets made probably gets made this week, so we’ll all know the answer anyway.

    I’m in for either Biden or Harris. I’ve been watching clips of Harris. She’s warm. I think it’s her best personal attribute. That can’t be faked. I think people will really like her seemingly effortless warmth. It also “codes” as female, which is super interesting to me. That may be the way to get around misogny – just embrace femaleness, what people think of as female qualities.

  115. 115.

    jowriter

    @O. Felix Culpa: Me too. I’ve had enough here for the moment. It seems we have some fellow Dems who need convincing to hang tough, and most of them are not on this blog. I’ll be calling to PA to see if this old NY gal can help as I did in every election except the one during the pandemic in 2020, knocking doors for the Democrats. I’ve also got a good local race in NY-17 to beat Mike Lawler (spit). Want to help with that one too. We’ve got the GOP shitshow  convention coming up next week.  Let’s see how that flies/lands with a thud, and what voters may think of whatever garbage comes out of the nominee’s mouth. Not to mention our first chance to appraise the stellar qualities of whoever he decides to pick as his bootlicker running mate.  See you then.

  116. 116.

    rikyrah

     

    Those newly criminalized homeless people will have to go somewhere after they are arrested.😠😠😠

    Those millions going to be deported will have to be placed somewhere before deportation.😠😠😠

    Citizens for Ethics (@CREWcrew) posted at 8:00 AM on Mon, Jul 08, 2024:
    The massive private prison company GEO Group is the first company to have its PAC max out to Trump’s campaign. GEO Group was awarded far more contracts under the Trump admin than Biden, and may be anticipating future growth if Trump is re-elected.
    https://t.co/6xFBWQ2xFY
    (https://x.com/CREWcrew/status/1810297821339283829?s=02)

  118. 118.

    Betty Cracker

    Saw a brief clip of Marco Rubio from this weekend, and it appears he’s botoxed his forehead into a complete state of paralysis. JD Vance appeared in the same segment, and it looks like he dialed back on the eyeliner. Maybe someone from the campaign is giving them cosmetic tips. (I think it’s all for nought — Trump will probably go with Burgum.)

  119. 119.

    WereBear

    @Soprano2: WE didn’t bring it up.

    I was perfectly happy with an 81 year old man who already beat the demented, convicted, felon.

    They want to bring up COMPETENCE? Bring it on. They are actually playing our game now.

  120. 120.

    EarthWindFire

    @Kay: Yes, and we need a plan for a turnaround. Since early voting begins in roughly 8 weeks, I can’t see how that plan involves anyone but Joe Biden. Wringing our hands isn’t a plan.

  123. 123.

    Mike E

    @TBone: btw someone at Daily Kos posted a transcript from a Meides Touch interview with Luttig where he basically said the SCOTUS ruling on immunity was reverse engineered out of the desire to solely absolve TURD…I commented that if he didn’t say the disclaimer “in my opinion” he lacked temperance and believability in anything he’s said (he may be right but his “hot take” is as good as mine). In my opinion.

  124. 124.

    Old Man Shadow

    Oh, look, encouraging news and Democrats who want to fight instead of go full Greenwald.

    I’m going to have to hang out here more often and visit other blogs (*cough*LGM*cough*) much less.

  125. 125.

    Bupalos

     

    @Elizabelle: how many of those had an incumbent win?

    how many had a lower percentage vote for fascists than the prior election?

    There are ways to take hope from these situations but they aren’t really parallels. Have to be a little careful forcing global politics into an American box.

  126. 126.

    Quinerly

    @Kay: Thanks for your comments. Nice to see your postings.

    I have tried to dip back into BJ comments after stepping away for a few days. Caught up on a few threads last night from the last few days.

    Unfortunately, I will have to step away again. I will continue to read the front pagers. The comment section is becoming unreadable. It seems to be the same few people saying the same thing over and over….and over and over. Plus, tiny p*nis “jokes.” Honestly, I don’t see how some of these commenters have the time to post over and over in EVERY thread. I am retired and I don’t have that kind of time.

    I am all in for Biden. But, people are delusional if they don’t realize there is a huge problem since the debate. I don’t think his debate performance will cause people to suddenly leave Biden for Trump….my concern is voter turnout and a lot of young people just won’t vote. I have no answers. Unfortunately, hindsight is always 20/20. Imo, Biden should have decided 2 years ago that he wasn’t running. He and the party should have then started uniting behind Harris (btw, my original first choice in 2020). Building her up, throwing all support behind her.

    If I say much more, I will be attacked as a troll for speaking my mind.

  127. 127.

    Starfish

    @dc: Kay is not arguing for or against this position. She is arguing against the behavior of spreading nonsense that appeals to confirmation bias.

    We are going to amplify stuff affirming Joe Biden, even if it is made up nonsense. We are going to yell at people who are worried about the election and lukewarm about Joe Biden. Those are choices that people are making.

  128. 128.

    schrodingers_cat

    @rikyrah: Tankie left talking point is that Obama deported more people than Trump.  I heard this IRL in a talk I helped organize for the local Ds.

    But not a  word about Trump created mass detention centers

  129. 129.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    They have hundreds of millions of dollars. They can stand up a campaign. Biden is burning thru tons of campaign dollars on advertising right now just to stay even or behind and Trump isn’t spending anything. That will change. Trump will start spending soon. So keep that in mind as a factor too – Biden currently has to spend a ton to stay even.

    This isn’t actually all “unknowns” – a lot of it is known. They just compare to prior Democratic candidates, so if Biden’s “burn rate” is high while Trump’s is low and Biden’s just stayng even that’s a tick against Biden on the spending side. They’ll compare Biden’s campaign schedule to prior candidates too, so saying “well, he’s doing this or that event” isn’t the measure – the measure will be “how many did Obama do in July 2012?”

  131. 131.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Biden is a good man. Trump is a bad man. The distinction is so clear and obvious, the Republicans are terrified of its simplicity. They can’t spin it so they can’t win it. They want him out. Don’t help.

    A good rule of thumb is: never spread messaging that is the same as what FoxNews/MAGA are spreading. The fact that Fox/MAGA-land are still hammering Biden’s age, is a pretty good sign that they know he can beat Trump and are scared.

  133. 133.

    TBone

    I remember being grumpy about the proposal for new digital price displays *shakes fist at cloud

    Me and Bob Casey agree this is good news!

    Walmart Fined $1.64 Million by NJ for Unlawful Pricing Practices, New Jersey Digest

    New Jersey has fined Walmart Inc. $1.64 million for repeated violations of state pricing laws. The penalty follows an investigation that revealed Walmart’s pricing discrepancies made comparison shopping difficult for customers.

    https://angrybearblog.com/2024/07/unlawful-pricing-practices-by-major-corporation#more-151804

  136. 136.

    rikyrah

     

    Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) posted at 8:15 AM on Mon, Jul 08, 2024:

    NEW: President Biden sends a letter to congressional Democrats with this message:

    “I am firmly committed to staying in this race, to running this race to the end, and to beating Donald Trump.”

    “The voters — and the voters alone — decide the nominee of the Democratic Party. How can we stand for democracy in our nation if we ignore our own party.”

     

    https://t.co/ypGrWAFGfA
    (https://x.com/kylegriffin1/status/1810301588977680840?s=02)

  139. 139.

    Layer8Problem

    @Old Man Shadow:  Where has The Greenwald been?  Not that I’m caring, just that hearing his name has me pleasantly thinking how I’ve enjoyed the absence of his deep thoughts.

  140. 140.

    schrodingers_cat

    @rikyrah: This entire conversation of replacing Biden by these Pundits is deeply insulting to the Democratic Party and the 14 millions primary voters who voted for Biden. MSM has shown us that they have zero respect for us. And yet many of us consume the garbage they put out daily. It is time for that to STOP. Because the only language they understand is $$.

  142. 142.

    TBone

    @rikyrah: ✊🇺🇸 I just wanna see it again.  I remember what primaries are for.

    “The voters — and the voters alone — decide the nominee of the Democratic Party.

  143. 143.

    The Thin Black Duke

    And white people wonder why black people see them as untrustworthy allies.

  145. 145.

    Soprano2

    Here’s one last thing about this, then I have work to do. It was malpractice on the part of Democratic politicians  and pundits to telegraph their initial panic over the debate to the press. Absolute malpractice. If they had refused to participate in the press agitation over it, this would have already died down and gone away. They should have been prepared to pivot to “Did you hear what TCFG said about ‘x’?”, or “Did you see how unhinged TCFG was and hear how many lies he told? Do you know about Project 2025, the Republican blueprint for TCFG’s term?”. They could have acknowledged that yes, Biden had an off night, but then quickly pivot to talking about TCFG and all the off things he’s said in his speeches. Those Democrats, whoever they are, gave fuel to the fire that the press was eager to light.

  146. 146.

    Starfish

    @schrodingers_cat: Biden was very few people’s first choice in 2020. There were a lot of candidates and most people wanted someone else.

    I think in the primary, I wanted Warren, and then when she dropped out, I wanted Harris. But when Biden was the candidate, I voted for him because I don’t actually want the Earth to die a fiery death when we defund the EPA or something stupid.

  148. 148.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Starfish: I am talking about the diehards who wanted their candidate and no one else and have spent the last 4 years attacking Biden from within. Gave him no credit even when he acted on the issues they favored like troop withdrawl from Afghanistan and student loans.

    Oh and I have no love lost for turncoats like Mark Warner either. Apparently he has been nursing a grudge against Biden, because Obama passed over Warner and picked Biden in 2007.

  149. 149.

    moonbat

    I think some blue dot in a red state commenters on here are suffering from a modified version of the Stockholm Syndrome to where they’ve come to believe that Republicans always win.

    I get that things look pretty grim where you are and I am sorry, but that’s not really a reflection on the nation as a whole. As the last couple of elections have taught us, the battle is going to be won on the margins of swing states, not in Ohio or Florida. Though I wouldn’t mind seeing some of these “safe” R states flip. Ted Cruz’s recent panicked attempts to behave like a moderate rather than a bomb thrower could be an indication of what his internal polls are telling him.

    I think we are in pretty good shape if we keep our heads and continue fighting. I do think that wringing our hands when the top of the ticket is not going to change is counterproductive. Even with the assurances that they plan to vote for our nominee no matter what, the overall effect is to depress our side. People who are fighting the good fight, which we are, should feel positive about it.

  150. 150.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @schrodingers_cat: The centralist Blue Dog Democrats see this as an opportunity to put the brakes on Biden’s progressive agenda and go back to business as usual: throwing POC under the bus under the guise of “bipartisanship”. They’re thinking Trump won’t be that bad. “Better the white racist we know, than the [n-word] woman we don’t know”.

  151. 151.

    Soprano2

    @WereBear: Hey, I don’t know if you saw what I posted about my cat the other day. He’s a lot better, he evidently has a heart problem. They’re so good at hiding how sick they are until they’re really sick it’s scary. He’s eating a lot better. Now my task is getting him back to eating his regular food. I think I’ll call the vet in a couple of days to see if I should take him in for a check just to make sure everything is OK. He gave me quite a scare!

  152. 152.

    Belafon

    @Kay: Of course we’re poll unskewers. Polls have gotten so many things wrong since Dobbs (and it looks like similar problems in Europe) that we might as well play with the numbers as well.

    I personally don’t care for the “we’re 2 points behind” crap. Save that for late October.

  154. 154.

    jowriter

    @UncleEbeneezer: Ten words to start a conversation with the undecided and the fearful, and the most stark and simple message–all true. Thank you.  Biden is a good man.  Trump is a bad man.  We need good to win. We can all start from there. I’ve got a long trip today but wanted to express my appreciation. Over, and out.

  157. 157.

    Soprano2

    @Quinerly: I don’t disagree that the time to have this conversation was a couple of years ago. We know you’re not a troll because you’ve been here for awhile. It’s the brand new nyms who are the obvious trolls.

  160. 160.

    Barbara

    @The Thin Black Duke: ​We are used to smoother currents. We aren’t as prepared for seasickness. When I think of how exhausting this all is, I think about Thurgood Marshall et al. as far back as the 1930s plotting the long, long strategy of reversing Jim Crow and the legacy of slavery and the Civil War. What kept them from giving up is that they knew they had no real choice. Biden has outperformed my expectations in just about every way that required judgment and acumen. The navel gazing is getting tedious.

  161. 161.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Honestly I think they should use Harris a lot. She’s a better advocate for our position on abortion, for example.

  162. 162.

    schrodingers_cat

    @The Thin Black Duke: Indeed. And I too used to be #notalluppercastepeople but being in the US where I am not the default and especially since the Trump era I realized my defensiveness and realized the point the anticaste activists were trying to make.

  163. 163.

    Soprano2

    @Mike E: I think she’s being realistic about the road ahead. It doesn’t do us any good to fool ourselves about how hard this campaign will be.

  164. 164.

    CaseyL

    This “well, they might have a point, you know” is not helpful.

    Do you or do you not think Biden is up to the job?

    Because if you think he isn’t, then what you want isn’t just a new ticket. You have to want Biden to resign the Presidency.

    Right?

    Because if he isn’t “up to” running for President, then he sure as hell isn’t up to actually being President.

    Right?

  166. 166.

    Quinerly

    @WereBear:

    I am convinced whether Trump or Biden wins, neither will serve out their term. But what do I know? I actually believed Trump would step down within his first year because “presidenting” would turn out to be too boring, too hard, not what he thought it would be….or he would find out he couldn’t be a dictator.

  168. 168.

    Starfish

    @schrodingers_cat: I am not really seeing that many die hards. Now, this could be that I am a complete shut in, but I don’t think it is that.

    Also, the people in potential swing states are concerned for different reasons so I am not going to write off Golden or Warner or any of them as ENEMIES when they are in states that could swing. They are not that far removed from Republican leadership, and they know what could happen. Writing them off means writing off their states, and we can’t afford to do that.

    I have pointed out the theme of fear a few times in these threads. I think a lot of people are afraid. In times like this, we should be reassuring and comforting and not declaring folks who are afraid as the enemy.

  170. 170.

    WereBear

    @Soprano2: So glad to hear it ended okay. Talk to the vet about getting them more protein, if he doesn’t have some kind of issue.

    They don’t digest as well. They need more fat and protein, and minimal carbs. Those cat food companies but grains and vegetables in cat food, when cats cant get protein that way.

    Such cats get less than the label says.

  171. 171.

    Soprano2

    @The Thin Black Duke: In my experience too many white people think they deserve to be at the front of the line just because they’re white, and I say that as a white person. It’s disgusting.

  173. 173.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Barbara: The navel gazing is getting tedious.

    This.

    What’s infuriating is that the gaslighting from the media ain’t new. It happened with Hillary, it happened with Gore, it happened with Kerry, it happened with Dukakis, and it’s happening with Biden.

    Why are we allowing ourselves to be conned again?

  175. 175.

    Quinerly

    @Soprano2: Thank you.

    I am not totally convinced that every new nym is a troll. I have seen one “new” nym making very valid points who has been attacked repeatedly.

  176. 176.

    Elizabelle

    @Quinerly: great to see you here.  I am all for winning with Biden and his excellent MVP.  Who could end up serving out his term.  Or not.

  178. 178.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Starfish: I am not writing them off. But I am giving them the side eye for letting their fear get better of them.

    And Mark Warner or Golden or even the irritating Manchin is 100 times better than the best R (like Susan Collins)

  179. 179.

    Soprano2

    @WereBear: Thanks for the tip, I’ll ask him about that. My cat loves those cat food enhancers, so much so that he paws at the pouch when I get one out.

  181. 181.

    Soprano2

    @Quinerly: Maybe not, but I’d say right now is a bad time to be new, because most of the new nyms have started right off the bat with the “get rid of Biden” stuff. They don’t comment on anything else, then they disappear.

  182. 182.

    Citizen Dave

    @Belafon: Same.  No one knows today which candidate/party is “winning” ( therefore how far “behind” or “ahead” someone is) because the only poll that counts are the actual votes.  Biden/Harris received 7+ million more votes last time, and I expect that or a higher margin this time.  Ike beat Stephenson in 1952, had a massive heart attack in 1955–severity hidden by WH of course–, and beat Stephenson even more in 1956.

  183. 183.

    Quinerly

    Biden just called into MJ. I am getting a late start of my day. This could be from an earlier portion of the show.

    He sounds very strong.

  185. 185.

    kindness

    Do I have to say ‘Fuck Mark Warner’ another time?

    OK.  Fuck Mark Warner.  Asshole.

  187. 187.

    Mike E

    @Betty: yeah, she agreed to be Joe’s running mate, she’s absolutely fine with it. Seriously. Sheesh.

    @Quinerly: “solid” is doing some heavy lifting here.

  188. 188.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Soprano2: Some accounts like Wil come here to stir up things every four years. I recognized his nym. Because I have had run-ins with him before.

    Some new nyms are sockpuppets of old troll accounts. Because changing your writing style is more difficult than changing your nym.

  189. 189.

    CaseyL

    @Starfish: ​
     

    But there is no “there” there in all the fear and concern.

    Biden is old, a little slower than he was four years ago. But his mind works just fine.

    People – with a huge assist from the MSM – are working themselves up into a lather over…what? 20 minutes of a bad debate performance?

    In one of last night’s threads was a kerfuffle over an interview where the interviewer used questions the Biden campaign had written, or approved, or something. People were up in arms about it: “Biden can’t do interviews unless he controls the questions!”

    Then someone pointed out this is standard procedure in media interviews of politicians.

    Remember, when Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State, there was a huge brouhaha over the State Department destroying cell phones when the phones had to be replaced? Remember when people said Hillary was “destroying evidence” and it “proved” she was unfit to be President?

    Eventually someone pointed out that destroying old electronic devices, like cell phones, was standard procedure, because that was the only way to ensure any confidential data on them was destroyed.

    It didn’t make the story go away, because people prefer their conspiracy theories.

    We can at least not repeat conspiracy theories here.

  190. 190.

    WereBear

    @Soprano2: I’m getting a brand called Reveal which is just fish, or chicken, and feed that as a treat. I also get canned tuna and chicken, which they are hit or miss with, but Bud Abbott adores the fish kind from the cat food section.

    I’ve been moving their treats towards dried chicken, liver, and salmon. A limited size portion and fresh water, and they are satisfied.

    Hunting was successful. Go take a nap. Food working as it should.😻

  192. 192.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Quinerly: But will these SOLID Democrats have Kamala’s back when she’s the next bull’s-eye? I doubt it.

  193. 193.

    Geminid

    @Starfish: Rep. Golden and Gluesenkamp Perez are running in districts Trump would have carried in 2020, and I think that accounts for their statements that Trump will win. They are “triangulating.”

    Mark Warner lives in a state that Trump lost by 10 points, so he doesn’t have that excuse. He got caught up in the stampede. When I saw a report that he feared Tim Kaine could lose I knew Warner had lost his nerve.

  195. 195.

    Quinerly

    @Mike E: not really. Schiff lead an impeachment against Trump. Warner is a very popular Dem in VA.  Nadler is no fence sitter. Pelosi wasn’t as strong in her support a few days back as I thought she could be. I am a realist. These are the people speaking up now. We aren’t talking the NYT and WSJ editorial boards.

  196. 196.

    Geminid

    @Starfish: When nations or communities receive a severe shock there are often panic behaviors. Searching out and identifying “the Enemy Within” is a classic panic reaction.

  197. 197.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Soprano2: It was malpractice on the part of Democratic politicians  and pundits to telegraph their initial panic over the debate to the press.

    And for very-online people obsessed with politics to signal-boost and legitimize the panic. If so many of them didn’t immediately run to their feinting-couches favorite blogs and start incessantly screaming “Fire” for over a week, this whole thing never would’ve gained any traction.

  199. 199.

    Wanderer

    @Tony Jay:  Well said! Thank you Tony Jay for your insight.  President Biden has accomplished so much during his first term despite continuing vitriol from the other party.  Compare his record to the failed term of the previous place holder and there is NO CONTEST.

  200. 200.

    zhena gogolia

    @trnc: It was linked in the last thread after you asked about it.

    The bad part of the poll is when they ask people, not if THEY would vote for Biden, but if OTHER PEOPLE would vote for Biden. When did that become the standard?

  201. 201.

    Mike E

    @Soprano2: also, White Man’s Veto… like we need to get approval from people who anoint themselves official arbiters when they can’t let well enough alone. It’s pathological.

  207. 207.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    I’m going to the library to write, then run errands, then go to my book club, where we’re discussion James by Percival Everett (great book, Huck Finn retelling from POV of Jim). Peace out. I wonder what we’ll be talking about when I get back.

  210. 210.

    Mike E

    @Quinerly: I find this assessment lacking, especially including Pelosi in this mix when she’s just ornery and comes off as contrary at times because media figures piss her off and she really doesn’t hold the stance you and others claim. Know them by their deeds. Nancy Pelosi is arguably the greatest Democrat of all time, and those others you cite better start acting that way.

  211. 211.

    Lapassionara

    @The Thin Black Duke: ditto. I am a bit older than Biden, so I have the perspective of his generation. I’ve seen this kind of “rf” operation before, and I’m certain that Putin will stop at nothing to install TFG back in the white house. We need to keep our wits about us and get out there and do the work.

  218. 218.

    Quinerly

    @Mike E: you questioned my use of the word “solid.” I threw out some names. I can throw out some more if you like.

  219. 219.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    Good morning! I wanted to start the day out by saying fuck you to all of the Tonya Harding Democrats out there.

    This is a message I will be delivering again and again because they just won’t shut up and vote.

  220. 220.

    Barbara

    @The Thin Black Duke: I did post that this is to 2024 what “emails” was to 2016 — a lot of masturbatory speculation dressed up as “news.”   I also posted, and still believe, that most voters had factored age into the equation.  Maybe some Dems had not.  Don’t know, don’t care.

  221. 221.

    satby

    @Mike E: I commented that if he didn’t say the disclaimer “in my opinion” he lacked temperance and believability in anything he’s said (he may be right but his “hot take” is as good as mine). In my opinion.

    Interesting. Which Appellant Circuit were you a judge on?

  222. 222.

    Quinerly

    @Elizabelle:

    JoJo las Orejas has a girlfriend!

    When you heading this way for a visit? Let’s make a plan!!! I am serious.

    (I have reservations at La Posada in Winslow for Christmas and New Years…will cancel one when I decide my winter wandering around, talking to strangers plan.  Hope to make it down to Tucson and Phoenix in Dec/Jan)

  223. 223.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @The Thin Black Duke: They’ll vote for her but also make excuses for Kamala-bashing disguised as principled debate about her flaws.  They will defend the dis/mis-info campaign and pretend that’s okay because they will vote for her in he end.

    As if voting for the Dem candidate somehow magically erases all the damage to voter turnout/enthusiasm that months of loud, shit-talking about that same candidate.

    In short, they will throw the same childish tantrums when our base tells them to get in formation and stop bashing our candidate as they did with Biden, and Hillary, and Gore.  They can’t ever stop criticizing Dems, because if they did, they’d no longer be special.

    I speak from experience having urged progressive friends to stop sharing Emailz/Crooked Hillary/Goldman Sachs bullshit in the final weeks of the election in 2016, only to get angry, defensive responses and how dare I try to stifle their speech etc.

  225. 225.

    E

    @Quinerly: I don’t think this freak out is going to affect D turnout too much. I think the target is R turnout. I think the idea is to juice R turnout at least as much as to suppress D turnout. Looking at the eight or so top CNN headlines yesterday, all but one were negative for Biden and the one that wasn’t was worded in a very weird and confusing manner to look like it was negative. Maybe this is tin hatty but I know when I am being played.

  226. 226.

    Geminid

    @Quinerly: Senator Warner’s career as Governor and then Senator spans Virginia’s 21st century transition from a red state to a purple one. Now it’s what I would call a light blue and Warner and Senator Kaine had a lot to do with that so yeah, he’s popular among Virginia Democrats.

    Warner burned up some good will this weekend, but he would still win a primary here. I hope he doesn’t run in 2026 though, and endorses Rep. Jennifer McClellan instead. But 2026 seems very far off right now.

  227. 227.

    ArchTeryx

    I came in late this morning, but I wanted to join in the applause. My fears were unfounded and doG damn it I’m grateful for that! As Omnes found out, if I’m wrong, I try to own up to it. And with Anxiety being my spirit animal, it happens from time to time. Especially in as fraught times as these are.

    If 91% of the D base is with Dark Brandon, the media and unnamed Democratic apparatchiks (probably one and the same) can go to hell. The media always had their thumb on the scales since Carter, and not in our favor.

  228. 228.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Elizabelle: I mean, I’m sure rat-fuckers have found BJ if only through the connection to DougJ/NYTimesPitchbot.  If GRU/trolls keep an eye on fairly small, private FB groups (which intelligence reports have confirmed they do) it’s silly to think that BJ somehow magically stays under their radar.

  229. 229.

    CaseyL

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yes, but somehow we primary election voters didn’t notice Biden was old.
    /s

    ETA: I get that people are scared shitless. But people who are scared shitless rarely make good decisions. You have to look around and see who is trying hardest to get you to lose your shit. Are they people with our best interests at heart? If not, maybe not do what they want you to do, hmm?​

  232. 232.

    NaijaGal

    @Kay: When does early voting start and how does that impact presidential campaigns? Do you believe that the polls are accurately reflecting the impact of Dobbs, especially in states that have abortion amendments on the ballot? Did any of the pollsters we’re relying on accurately predict the Kansas or Ohio abortion referendum results?

  233. 233.

    SFAW

    Maybe already noted, but:
    On CNN.com, they have an article re: “several top Dems” wanting Biden to drop out.
    “Among those who opposed Biden as the nominee were Reps. Mark Takano, Adam Smith, Jim Himes, Joe Morelle, Jerry Nadler and Susan Wild,”
    I guess they’re all ranking members, but the only names I recognized were Nadler and Takano. Am I out of touch, and these reps have a fair amount of power? [Yes, I know Nadler does, the asshole.] Or are they just warm bodies in lead positions?

  234. 234.

    Mike E

    @satby: I hold no claim of expertise but Luttig thought SCOTUS couldn’t possibly rule as they eventually did so forgive me applying a grain of salt to his utterances.

  236. 236.

    CaseyL

    @SFAW: ​<

    Adam Smith is a long-time Congressperson from Washington State.

    Timing is important: Did these congresscritters make their stand and demand before or after Biden's letter went to Congress?

  239. 239.

    geg6

    My favorite place on the internet is becoming unreadable.

    How about we all vow to take a day off on any and all hot takes on Joe Biden? I’ve never seen such bullshit from long-time commenters here and such acrimony toward anyone who doesn’t agree in all my time here (before Schiavo). It’s very unpleasant and, more and more, boring. Nobody is saying anything to convince anyone else of anything. The Ridin’ with Biden contingent (of whom I am one) is snarling and vicious to the Biden Must Go crowd who are insulting and dismissive and vicious right back. Trolls are taking over every thread, despite every single jackal knowing all about how to deal with troll infestations and their meaning. Best of all are the ones saying “I’m with Biden all the way, but here are all the GOP and media narratives that I want to justify. Just don’t call me names when I amplify and legitimize those who hate us because I support Biden.” Sick of it all. Let’s take a break.

  241. 241.

    lowtechcyclist

    I called up my Representative and my Senators (all Dems) this morning to let them know that I thought Biden had proved that he was up to the job because he’d been DOING the job, and that they shouldn’t have anything to do with this media bullshit about whether he should step aside, because he damned well SHOULDN’T.

  242. 242.

    Geminid

    @SFAW: Adam Smith was pretty active as Amed Services Committee Chairman during the last two Congresses. Smith’s more than a warm body, he just works in an area that does not get as much publicity as say, Rep. Nadler and the Judiciary Committee.

  244. 244.

    Quinerly

    @SFAW: apparently, some feel these aren’t really Democrats. Or true/solid Democrats. If they posted on BJ they would have new nyms and be considered Russian trolls.

    Look, like I have said…I have no answers. This is the most impt election since pre Civil War. I am very upset that we are at this point. I want Biden to win.

  245. 245.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @SFAW: And I’d never even heard of Takano. The only reason I remember Nadler was due to his prissy pissiness about Schiff being chosen for a plumb gig on one of the two Trump impeachments.

    But hey, at least names were named, which is a step forward for the MSM.

  247. 247.

    trnc

    @Kay: ​
     

    Rachel Bitcoiner has been posting made up shit about how Biden can’t be “replaced” by Harris on ballots for days. She’s wrong. Biden’s not on ballots until he’s nominated.

    This! Harris’ name will already be on the ballot anyway, so she could essentially walk into the nomination. Too many obstacles, especially money for the other candidates, and anyone who says that Harris can just take over if Biden dies should also understand that, 1) she’s ready now and 2) Biden declining over a period of 2 years before resigning or dying is another possibility, and that could be really, really bad for 2028.

  249. 249.

    Barbara

    @schrodingers_cat: Oh yes, as if any of us have been all that great at predicting how “undecideds” are going to vote — and we make these predictions even as we do know that most elections are won based on turnout.

  250. 250.

    schrodingers_cat

    An observation about the MSM and this entire debate saga.

    In India Modi bent the MSM to his will using means fair and foul. Many brave souls quit their posts formed new portals or took to YT. Our MSM is bending over backwards regurgitating Republican talking points when Republicans don’t even hold the WH. So you know that they are not bowing to any political pressure but they are doing so out of their own free will.

  251. 251.

    sdhays

    @Kay: To be fair, I took the 91% number to mean that the calls for Biden to step down were failing among Democrats. If they can’t convince Democrats to abandon him, no one should be talking about Biden stepping aside anymore.

  252. 252.

    Jackie

    @Scout211: Another great ad by Biden.

    Biden needs to consistently remind Americans that TCFG is responsible for seating the three justices who took Roe away and subsequently endangered women’s health care.

  253. 253.

    gene108

    @TBone:

    But little attention has been paid to Trump’s incoherent debate performance because he is often incoherent. Trump told more than 30 lies in 90 minutes during the debate like it was another day at the office.

    From the Inquirer article.

    Bunch misses a major point in this election, Trump’s debate performance was “another day at the office”. There’s nothing Trump said that was out of character for Trump during the debate.

    Biden’s debate performance was out of character (to put it mildly).

    This is the reason the debate coverage is so skewed.

    Trump did what was expected of him, and Biden did not (to put it far too mildly).

    **********

    @Kay:

    But I would assume there’s some, just because now nearly 20% of Indies say they won’t participate at all – they won’t vote for either.

    There has always been a general lack of enthusiasm about this 2020 rematch.

    My hope was Trump’s trials would’ve found him very guilty of many crimes by now, discouraging his supporters from turning out.

    The one, and most likely only case, that has gone trial found him guilty. It was having an effect on enthusiasm for him.

    Biden’s debate performance was so bad he flipped the discussion of this election from whether we want a convicted felon as President to is Biden experiencing cognitive decline.

    Biden and his campaign have done an awful (putting mildly) in acknowledging how bad the debate performance was and offering a credible explanation as to why the performance was so bad.

    Their one general explanation is he had a cold or some other unnamed respiratory virus. I’ve had colds. No cold I’ve ever had had prevented me from talking coherently.

    Cold medicine? Strong cold medicine can make a person loopy. Biden and his people have not said whether or not he took any medicine before the debate.

    They’re dodging the question as to what happened to President Biden in the debate. Was it a fluke or the shape of things to come?

    Obama, in 2012, was 51 years old. It’s not an age where kids are discussing whether or not to take dad’s car keys away because he’s not with it enough to drive anymore. That’s not true of 81 year olds.

    Obama’s first bad debate performance was explained as altitude sickness, I’ve been hiking with someone experiencing altitude sickness. It can have a very noticeable impact on some people and there’s no way to know if someone will experience it until you wind up at higher altitudes.

  254. 254.

    satby

    @Mike E: Luttig, though conservative, can read black letter law and followed precedent in his career. He didn’t assume that the 6 traitors would throw both away. He’s not the only one, and it seems fairly clear that what the SCOTUS 6 did they had to accomplish by working it the way he said. But my point was that yes, it’s his opinion, but unless your level of expertise is the same as his, your opinion is not “as good as his”.  Neither is mine, so I defer to his. I think Issac Asimov said something about that.

  256. 256.

    the pollyanna from hell

    Vote rapist? Really?

    Worship uncanny simulation of demonic toddler? Don’t forget to vomit first.

  258. 258.

    CaseyL

    Are y’all just going to ignore the letter Biden sent to Congress stating, as plainly as possible, that he’s not stepping aside?

    Has it gotten to the point where you just ignore anything the President says?

    Let me put it this way: At this point, forcing Biden to step aside will tear the Democratic Party to pieces.

    If that strikes you as an optimal outcome, do please let me know your reasoning.

  259. 259.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @geg6: I checked in here last night and again this morning after being gone for a few days over the holiday.  I think I might check out again for a few days.

  261. 261.

    oldgold

    I remain an agnostic on whether Biden should be replaced by Harris. I could argue it round or flat.

    By the end of this week, as more “high” quality polls are published and the “big” donors react, the tale will be told.

  262. 262.

    Geminid

    @Chief Oshkosh: I think a lot of Democrats couldn’t name more than 25 out of the House Caucus of 213. That doesn’t mean there aren’t a lot of capable legislators besides the high profile “stars (or villains in the cases of Cuellar and Golden).

    Since the House Class of 2018 arrived I’ve tried to dig deeper into them and their colleagues. I think that on the whole, our Caucus is very much underrated.

  263. 263.

    Starfish

    @CaseyL: A lot of people don’t have family members live to 80. A lot of people are considering taking the car keys away from their family members who do live to 80.

    Taking away the keys from the 80 yos is not “ageist.” It makes sense when the 80 yos are regularly wrecking their cars or driving dangerously.

    So people do have legitimate skepticism about having presidents this old, but it is not like Trump is a spring chicken either.

  267. 267.

    trollhattan

    With endorsements like these, Vance must be a shoo-in.

    July 8, 2024 at 10:29 am EDT By Taegan Goddard

    Wall Street Journal: “Some of MAGA-world’s biggest influencers are lobbying Trump to pick Vance, including the right-wing podcaster and current federal inmate Steve Bannon, Turning Point USA’s Charlie Kirk and former Fox News host Tucker Carlson…”

    “The 39-year-old Vance owes his rapid rise to his unparalleled ability to articulate the tenets of a new conservative movement—often termed ‘national conservatives’ or ‘the new right’—that channels Trump’s chaotic impulses into doctrine, and sometimes goes beyond them. Believers call on the GOP to abandon its old mainstays of free trade, fiscal restraint and internationalism in favor of tight borders, tariffs, muscular state intervention in the economy and a retreat from the world stage.”

    If those mooks backed me for anything, a coffee run even, I’d reconsider my life’s choices.

  268. 268.

    trnc

    To everyone saying that all dems just need to shut up about replacing Biden: THIS IS THE TIME to have this discussion, with the official nomination one month away. The time to sit down, shut up and back the nominee is AFTER the convention.

    This is not Hillary’s emails, which was a 100% manufactured scandal. Biden has slipped since he took office. We can and will argue over the next month about how much and how quickly the trend is likely to continue. The media will certainly be having this conversation whether we have it or not.

  270. 270.

    Bupalos

    @schrodingers_cat: Can I point out here that all y’all who were like “everyone here who has doubts just shut up so we can unify and shift the message to Trump” are… largely not doing that? Drilling down every deeper on the idea that our only weakness here is the unpure of heart who can’t see the conspiracy? “They were never REAL democrats. They never LOVED Joe Biden.”

    If we’re going to focus on unity and presenting a common front, that isn’t going to happen by endless purification rituals. We do have a “get out of discord free” Trump card here.  That a legitimate, inexhaustible play (that I’d say also can play if-or-when Biden decides to withdraw.)  Let’s go with that, instead of undermining solidarity by referring constantly to impurity of Biden Love or the political racial inferiority of the White Democrats. If we’re running the unity play, let’s run the unity play.

  271. 271.

    trnc

    @satby: ​
     

    her name is Bitecofer. Detail matters when you’re slagging on someone.

    Snarky names are still allowed, and I fully support Kay’s use of them. Wouldn’t be BJ without them.

  272. 272.

    Soprano2

    @zhena gogolia: Yes, funny how that has completely dropped out of the news. Not saying it’s not important, just that the press dropped it for a new chew toy.

  274. 274.

    Mike E

    @satby: I hear you, it’s just that too many people these days are jockeying for a seat at the media table which imo looks unseemly and unnecessary. I also feel the best time to question SCOTUS was nearly 24 years ago, the next best time is clearly now…ymmv

  275. 275.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Elizabelle:

    Applause!  As a Virginian, might call Mark Warner’s office and remind him not to be a douche.  In more genteel language.

    Go for it!!

    Just don’t make it TOO genteel – we want to make sure he gets the message!

  276. 276.

    Mike E

     

    @Starfish: the keys analogy is good, especially after W drove our nation into a ditch, murdered the AAA driver then drove the tow truck with the nation hitched to it into a deeper ditch and then set it on fire.

    I trust the president because he’s keeping us on the road with nary a scare, despite all the shouty backseat drivers.

  277. 277.

    Scout211

    @geg6: My favorite place on the internet is becoming unreadable.

    Thank you.

    I am not surprised that there is high anxiety about this election.  I have been worried about Trump the whole time.  Anxiety is definitely an honest response to this election.

    But as a retired therapist, I’d like to offer a different piece of advice for everyone who has anxiety about the election, about Trump and about the current focus on Biden’s age and competency.

    Anxiety and worry is a natural human reaction to stress, especially to stress caused by things and events out of our control.  Obsessing and rehashing and planning and ruminating is natural human reaction to anxiety.  Obsessing and ruminating is a coping mechanism, among countless coping mechanisms.  It gives the worrier a feeling that you are doing something active to get back into control of a situation that makes you feel helpless.  But it is a coping mechanism that is actually an illusion.  Your thoughts give you a temporary relief from feeling out of control but nothing actually changes.

    Like a drug, you feel temporary relief from feeling helpless.  But then when things out of your control don’t change, you feel even more helpless.  So you get inside your head and obsess and ruminate some more. Rinse and repeat.

    The healthier thing to do IMHO is to get active.  Move forward.  Either get off the internet and focus on things in your life that you can control or stay on the internet and focus on finding ways to support the Democrats, Biden-Harris, your local and state races, abortion rights, spreading the word about Project 2025, etc.  Doing active things can make a big difference and is definitely a healthier way to cope with worry and anxiety, IMHO.

    Anxiety and feelings of fear and helplessness are understandable.  I get that totally.  But there are trolls here that are beginning to exploit our fears and worry.  They stir up arguments and conflicts, which increases anxiety and worry.  Arguing with trolls is another coping mechanism that is not that healthy, IMHO.  It ends up being pointless and it will only make you feel more helpless after the initial feeling of control.  They are not here to argue policy points.  They are here to cause conflicts, increase anxiety and interfere with our focus on electing Democrats.

    Let’s do this.  Let’s get Democrats elected.  Let’s support abortion rights in the states that are fighting for it.

    Thank you for listening.

    Now I need to get back to my life.  My life with my husband of 46 years (on July 14th) who is exactly Joe Biden’s age and actually does have Alzheimer’s and is slowly losing his vision and health.  It’s a challenge every single day.

    ETA typos

  279. 279.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Geminid: Sure, I think we have great people in the House.

    They’re not representing voters’ legislative interests when they do things like this. They’re just adding to the churn.

  280. 280.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Scout211: Agreed. I have been active. Donated to BH campaign, conducted a voter registration drive and attended the Dem convention in MA.

    In the fall I am going to crunch #s for the Indivisible group in MA. Continue other outreach efforts and ofcourse vote.

  281. 281.

    Kristine

    Are we sure the polling is accurate? Because we’ve had numerous discussions here about how Dems and young people are under-polled and the GOP over-represented because answering phones, prevalence of  landlines, etc.

    Has the impact of Dobbs been lessened or discounted? Because abortions rights measures are gaining enough signatures to make ballots in red red states. It’s hardly ever discussed by the MSM but it’s not going away.

  282. 282.

    japa21

    Three comments then I am stepping back from this.
    1. Until Biden decides to drop out, nobody can do anything about it.
    2. I really doubt he reads this nearly top 10,000 political blog, so there isn’t really anything we can say or do that will influence him.
    3. IMHO, and it really is a HO, once he is nominated, which will be before the convention, a lot of the people on the fence, including indies who say they may not vote, will come into the tent.

  283. 283.

    Geminid

    @Scout211: Thank you for this post. I would add to your description of trolls that some of them are well practiced at manipulation and disruption. These are not just random soreheads, they’re working with a plan and tecnique.

  285. 285.

    Nelle

    @geg6: Yep. This is actually boring now.  These decisions are well above our paygrade and yet people are willing to risk a site that we’ve all  come to rely upon.

    I’ll check back later.  Got a mystery to read.

  286. 286.

    cain

    @Kay: totally get you and respect that position. It’s going to be up to Biden whether he can do that or he thinks someone else should do it.. but putting a new candidate at this time would be harder. Never mind the press will be doing the same thing and digging in

    Hell someone already started on the birth certificate nonsense for Kamala.

  287. 287.

    Bupalos

    @Scout211: I’d underline this. And add that the prime way humans deal with uncertainty and anxiety over uncertainty is to adopt a kind of loud and heightened certainty. Personally I see a much more vociferous kind of certainty on the He Must Stay side, but I’ve seen a fair amount on the other side as well. I consider both signs of panic. There’s an ostrich way to freak out and a rabbit way to freak out.

    Also in reference to the original sentiment: It should remind us what this space is to a lot of people. A favorite place to go. For different reasons for different people. I’d said before, I understand a sense of unity of purpose and opinion and a place where we get with our team is probably #1. That is the basic nature of online communities, for good and ill. Dissension even when it’s couched and mild in a space like this can become socially damaging quickly.  When it isn’t couched and mild, and when you toss in the snark that is also a hallmark of these spaces, Katie bar the door!

  288. 288.

    stacib

    @Kay: I’m guessing you pride yourself on always “keeping it real” no matter any evidence that’s contrary to your narrative.

  289. 289.

    Soprano2

    @Starfish: Taking the car keys away can be about physical limitations just as much as about mental ones. When my husband took the driving test, he failed every portion of it, including the ones that measured reaction time and pathfinding. You could fail those without having dementia.

  291. 291.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Mike E:

    Nancy Pelosi is arguably the greatest Democrat of all time, and those others you cite better start acting that way.

    Most of them aren’t fit to walk in her pumps.  Many of us here often cite Biden as the best president of our lifetime but it can’t be said enough that Nancy Smash is the best *Democrat* of our lifetime.  Certainly one of the best House Speakers ever.

  292. 292.

    Soprano2

    @Scout211: Yes, it is. Thanks for that, I need to remember it often. I’ve said I’m going to postcard, I think I need to start.

    I hope you and your hubby are doing well. Mine is physically somewhat better since his iron infusion treatments. Evidently most of the problem I was having getting him to do things was due to fatigue from having low hemoglobin. I don’t fool myself that he’s cognitively “better”, but he is more alert and much more willing to do things if I need him to. It’s made my life a little easier.

    Take high anxiety from the election, then add high anxiety due to caregiving for a husband with dementia, then add in high anxiety over a cat who almost died from fluid in his chest due to heart problems, and well my head has not been in a great place this week for sure.

    ETA – Maybe someone should front page Scout211’s comment so everyone can see it, I think it would do some other people some good. Perspective is a good thing.

  293. 293.

    Citizen Alan

    @Starfish: I will concede that if Joe Biden were my chauffeur, I would probably have to let him go at this point. Happily, he is not in a job that requires him to drive a car, nor perform any other type of activity that requires dexterity or physicality. His job requires him to sit behind a desk and make decisions based on his decades of experience and acquired wisdom.

  294. 294.

    raven

    I’m back from my heart shock and my watch no longer says afib so that’s good. Scout has great advice, if you can’t help yourself from engaging with trolls do something else.  I don’t particularly like Hillary but I voted for her. I have genuine concerns about Joe but I’ll vote for him if he’s the candidate. I’m not interested in getting in some bg argument about it. FIDO

  295. 295.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Tony Jay: ​
     
    Just stumbled onto this:

    “I want a President that wasn’t leaving Jeffrey Epstein voicemails at 3am.”

  300. 300.

    andy

    the 2025 thing is important- one little item in this plan of theirs stuck right out to me- the pigs want to defund NOAA- you know, the people who tell you if a hurricane or a tornado, or a blizzard, or intense cold is coming your way.  all these fuckers want to do is pile up the bodies on the non-rich.

     

    then there’s everything else!

  302. 302.

    Chris Johnson

    I mean, at this point I am in fact considerably more enthusiastic about voting for Joe Biden than I was any of the previous three times. If you take a moment to think about it, it’s well-earned enthusiasm.

    Whether you think the press just freaked out naturally, or you think it was coordinated, look at how well Joe handled it! How well he’s handling the whole Democratic caucus! This is a cat 5 shitstorm (I think by design) with the intention of sowing chaos and taking the Dems out, and Joe Biden has not panicked or flailed even when seemingly everybody else was.

    I’m sorry, that’s Presidential. No other way to put it.

    I’m sure we’ll see other people that good in future but for right now we have someone that good in CHARGE. I am enthusiastic. Our guy is goddamn unflappable. Love to see it.

  303. 303.

    Suzanne

    @Kristine:

    Are we sure the polling is accurate? Because we’ve had numerous discussions here about how Dems and young people are under-polled and the GOP over-represented because answering phones, prevalence of  landlines, etc. 

    No, I’m not sure of that. But I also don’t think it is possible to be sure of that. I think the best we can do w/r/t polls as evidence is understand that they are flawed and limited, but that many of them considered together are probably accurately conveying some sort of shift. They can absolutely be criticized.

    I’m not comfortable with the “fake news!” approach, in which we just wholly say they can’t be trusted. We should operate in an evidence-based fashion.

  304. 304.

    Belafon

    We all speculate on what others will do, but we only know what we’ll do. Are you going to not vote for Biden? Are you not going to donate? Are you not going to call your friends and family and encourage them to vote for Biden?

  305. 305.

    Chris Johnson

    @Citizen Alan: I’ve been thinking about how in some Asian cultures, faced with a tough decision, they’ll go and find the oldest wisest guy they can find, and they’ll ask THAT guy.

    And then they will wait for the answer, even if it’s voiced real feebly and quavering… and they’ll listen. Because they are asking a sage, because he is wise and has seen shit before.

    Food for thought. The job description here is not ‘pro wrestler’. The guy’s gotta be levelheaded and have wisdom.

  306. 306.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Suzanne: The evidence is that Biden is running.  He’s said that in rallies and in letters to Dems in Congress and to his supporters.

    As an evidence-based Dem, I take that to mean he’s running.  Believe me,  I felt freaked after the first 20 minutes of the debate. But I have processed that info and weighed our options,  and decided I have to go with what is. Namely,  Biden is running.

    We’ve had over a week to hash out our thoughts and feelings.  Now it’s time to support our ticket and take some swings at the other guys.

  308. 308.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @raven:  You can’t come at Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, The Dem Party and our base voters (especially at such a crucial time) and then expect to be treated with kid-gloves or patted-on-the-back for doing so.  Dumb shit like pushing Biden aside will get strong pushback because it DESERVES strong pushback.

    People who are so bored by it all can step away at any time, and should maybe think twice about cheering this shit on, fueling it or making excuses for it, in the first place.

    That said, happy to see more people coming around to fighting for Dems instead of bashing them.  That’s always a good thing.

  310. 310.

    Eyeroller

    I’ve been posting quite a bit since this is something I care about and I’ve been recovering from a rather extensive eye surgery (what, you thought my nym was just about my cynicism?) so can’t really do a lot of chores etc. I just want to point out something about the polls.

    At this time in 2012, Obama was perhaps tied with Romney. It was very, very close. He was behind in some polls.  And I think poll quality was overall better then.  The reasons were similar.  In 2012 the economy really was still shaky from the Great Recession.  That’s always a drag on the incumbent.  Now people believe the economy is bad regardless of the actual data.  There’s been some turnaround on that but it’s slow.

    Obama had a handicap in the form of his Excess Skin Pigmentation Syndrome.  The MSM was reluctant to go after that directly so they focused on bullshit like suit color, mustard preference, putting his feet on the sacred Resolute Desk, dressing too informally, dressing too formally, etc. etc.  Biden’s age is his handicap.

    Obama had a very bad first debate against Romney.  Same deer-in-the-headlights affect, but he doesn’t have a speech disorder so he didn’t have to deal with that.  But there were calls from “Democratic insiders” for Obama, yes Obama, to step aside.

    So it was very analogous.  But it can be and was turned around.

  313. 313.

    Quinerly

    Former Rep Donna Edwards very strong advocating for Biden on MSNBC right now. I will look for a clip once I finish cleaning filters in the koi pond.

  314. 314.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Chris Johnson: The old, wise leader (who may not even be able to see or hear etc.) is not just a movie/legend trope, there’s a fair amount of historical examples too.  In fact, I’d say that the Reagan/Feinstein examples of old politicians clearly losing their marbles and stubbornly refusing to retire, are pretty rare.  And Biden is clearly nowhere near that territory, imo, even in the debate.

  317. 317.

    cain

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    That’s what I keep saying. It’s lucy and the football.

    And these dems are falling for it.

    From Josh Marshall, reposted from last night.

    Incredibly silly statement. So silly I can’t believe he believes it. Biden’s age has become a big issue. But the reason we’re in a close race is because a huge number of Americans support Trump. Biden’s age, especially after last week, weakens the Dem campaign. But if you don’t grasp that this is a dog fight and a big chunk of the country wants that despicable degenerate back in power than you’re not going to be able to fight a winning campaign with any candidate.

    2/ And to be clear, my point really has nothing to do with Biden. But a lot of Dem/center-left thinking is based on not appreciating the strength of Trumpism. Oh just a default candidate cld kick his ass. That is not true. Without understanding that you can’t hope to beat him.

    https://x.com/joshtpm/status/1810028955191365944?t=URQe5SuhFKffxFKEYgJpIA&s=19

  318. 318.

    No One You Know

    @TBone: I can’t get past the marketing ad…I get a story about Adam Greer. Would love some hometown Inquirer news!

  319. 319.

    laura

    I’ve kept my yap shut and my comments to myself since the freakout. I won’t waver or falter in supporting the reelection of Biden/Harris because it’s been an amazing administration and hope they do more to improve our lives in the days to come and I’ve been working my little sphere of influence. All I can add to that is the competitor is a child rapist, a degenerate and a racist misogynist criminal pig fucker with a plan for fascism- so the stakes are clear.

    Have courage, take a breath and wring out the cortisol and adrenaline- and look at all the good stuff happening here: Sab’s cat is on the mend, Soprano2’s husband is feeling better so her life is better gvg’s retirement party is at an amusement park, Quinerly’s pup has a girlfriend, Raven is getting his heart back to lub dubbing the good way, Rikyrah keeps bringing the good twitter bits, it’s only going to be 100° here in Sacramento, other stuff too! I’m busting into this fresh week with spirits on fire. Wishing the same for all of you’s.

  320. 320.

    Ruckus

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR:

    Relegating Trump and Trumpism to the ash-heap of history is all that matters. And I still think the best bet is riding with Biden. Any alternative hare-brained scheme will result in the GOP seizing power. And that will be The End.

    First – THIS.

    Second – the powers that would like to be seemingly do not care about the people in this country, other than as it pertains to them making money.

    The current day G(rand) O(ld) P(poop) party is only about 100 yrs or so behind the times. OK 200 yrs. Their goal is power and money, not running a country for ALL citizens and inhabitants, and the rest of the world, it is about bank accounts or any place else to have, hold and hide MONEY, and whatever it takes to make that happen.

    I believe that this country was founded upon what it says in our founding documents, not what it says in our bank books or stock portfolio. But we are dealing with humans, and anything dealing with humans has both sides of every coin possible involved.

    We have to figure out how to fix this, to fix racism, to fix greed, OK how to fix humanity. This was supposed to be a country of, by, and for the people – ALL OF THEM. Not just the pale people, not just the people with most of the money, not just power, ALL THE PEOPLE. And we are not there.

    Now the concept of equality is grand but there will always be people with more money, or power or both. There will always be people that see colors differently and often hatefully, that’s humanity. But this country will not survive unless we can overcome at least most of this.

    This point in time is different than 100 or 200 years ago and will be different in 100 and 200 years. But we need/have to make this work, not for history, but for all of us, because that is what this country is SUPPOSED to be about. EQUALITY. Humanity will never be equal in every aspect, some are stronger or younger/older, some will be wealthier/some will be poorer, but this country was founded upon making as much as humanly possible – equal. It is not an impossibility, it is just difficult and will never be exactly 100% equal in every possible way, it doesn’t work that way.

    But the equality that it has to have is the equality of being human, regardless of money, power and prestige, color, gender, sexual orientation.

  325. 325.

    No One You Know

    @lowtechcyclist: Clarity and courtesy help. I always thank them for their service to their constituents and country. No all-caps, no swearing, no longer than 3 paragraphs.

    These folks are used to deference, they’re aware of their influence, and respect must be paid to be heard.

    I’ve been fortunate to be quoted without attribution in a press conference. So that’s my formula,  FWIW.

  326. 326.

    No One You Know

    @UncleEbeneezer: Yes! I got big lift from Michael Steele. More of this! I may have to get up earlier to catch his show. I hear it’s feisty.

    He sounds more like a Democrat than the ostensibly Democratic elite.

  328. 328.

    geg6

    @UncleEbeneezer: ​

    People who are so bored by it all can step away at any time, and should maybe think twice about cheering this shit on, fueling it or making excuses for it, in the first place.

    Ummmm, I have done none of those things. I’m just tired and bored of the same old arguments coming from the same people over the course of over a week. Every single thread, regardless of what the topic is has been hijacked by this argument. But you are right about one thing for sure. Time for me to step away from BJ for a while, I guess.​

  329. 329.

    Ruckus

    @Chris Johnson:

    Unflappable is often somewhat of an age thing. As one gets up there in years, one becomes more or less flappable. You’ve seen more, you’ve seen the results of being one way or the other and you really start to see that this life thing doesn’t go on forever, no matter how much you’ve seen or not seen getting to that point that you just know that the end is closer than the start. It can be scary but it normally isn’t, experience does that for you or to you, as long as you are paying some attention.

    President Joe has seen his share, or possibly more than his share and his flapabiltiy is very likely not the same as many others. It often comes with experience, one’s unexpected account often becomes smaller as one gets older. It’s like the opposite of an infant, every thing is new, the world is tiny, it’s easy to cry when you can’t see your parent(s) because that’s the people you know, and it’s grand when you see them, even if it’s been only a few moments without.

  330. 330.

    Ruckus

    @Scout211:

    All of this.

    I was a mental health counselor for 4 yrs, a long time ago and this is a great take on the concept of anxiety and of dealing with it. We can’t know the future but we can help shape some of it. That is one of the great things about this country, we are all an operational part of it, not just recipients of its operations. None of us may have a huge say in it but together we can make it better for the majority. For some, anything that is better for all or most is not seen as good for them. These are the selfish, greedy assholes of humanity, almost always making things worse for others.

  335. 335.

    TEL

    @trnc: She could not just “walk into the nomination”. She would have to fight like hell just to get on the ballot of a fair number of states. And that’s just to begin with. I get that you and a fair number of other commenters want Biden to go away. But there’s no magical way to make that happen without severely impacting the chances of a Dem presidency.

  336. 336.

    opiejeanne

    @eclare: Same here. Black Twitter for a while because they’ve got their heads on straight.

    I have had to talk my neighbor down about this stuff, she’s in a panic and depressed and explaining stuff to her is depressing to me. The day after the “debate” she was pissed off at Kamala. I asked why and it was because she defended Biden.

    Yesterday she was yapping about how terribly selfish Biden is for not stepping aside.

    She must be reading TFTFNYT, because even though she’s a Democrat she’s spouting the stuff I’ve seen online from them.

  337. 337.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @opiejeanne:

    She must be reading TFTFNYT, because even though she’s a Democrat she’s spouting the stuff I’ve seen online from them.

    You may well be right. This is the (intended) effect of months and months of articles saying Biden is old, and people like Ezra Klein suggesting Biden should go and we could just have a brokered convention to replace him, easy peasy. All of this took place long before the debate, to plant the idea in people’s minds.

    I too am exhausted by talking fellow Dems down from these crazy ideas and explaining the practical and political reasons why replacing Biden now would be a shitshow and glide path for Trump. They were primed by the FTFNYT and other MSM for this panic and to believe in unicorns.

  339. 339.

    Ruckus

    @Scout211:

    I started to reply to you and one of my neighbors in the seniors apt complex that I live in came by to talk. She is 98 yrs old, she rode motorcycles around SoCal (and many parts of this country) before I had a drivers license and I’m 75. She is a hoot and a half, to say the least. I’m proud to have followed in her footsteps as far a motorcycling goes at least.

    I was also a mental health counselor for a few years at a local mental health center near where I lived – a long time ago. So I have had similar experiences discussing human issues and seeing what works to get through stuff and what you wrote, and I agree with you 100000%. It is a while after your comment so you likely will never see this but I’m writing this in case you do.

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