I have a lot to say but I’m not sure I have the energy to say it. I am fatigued by the bullshit. I am officially at the point I was in 2007 when we had to create the category “I Can No Longer Rationally Discuss the Clinton Campaign” back when they clearly had lost the primary and were trotting out rotating superdelegate options in which she could secure the nomination and NONE OF THOSE FUCKING OPTIONS was viable.
It’s maddening. And what is more maddening is this rush to throw out all sorts of ad hoc solutions. The Democratic party is not a monolith- there are lots of diverse factions that coalesce over the period of a campaign and someone acceptable to most everyone becomes the nominee. And because we are a diverse party with all these factions, we have a system in place. And that system has procedures and rules and smarter people than me have spent a lot of time creating this system just so that all members feel like they got a fair shake by the process, and so we aren’t just making shit up as we go.
It’s one of the reason the Bernie stans in 2016 were so fucking maddening, because many of them had literally never spent a moment in the Democratic party or involved in the process yet were all of a sudden furious that the rules they didn’t live under for years or help to create didn’t all of a sudden favor their guy because of reasons. “It’s rigged” they screamed whenever they met a rule or procedure that didn’t tickle Bernie’s glans, completely unaware that the procedure that was impeding their divine right was implemented decades ago and everyone fucking else had had to abide by it and they do, too.
I really fucking hate being a Democrat.
War for Ukraine Day 866: The Butcher’s Bill from Last Night’s Attack Includes Another Russian War Crime
catfishncod
We don’t need to pitch out Biden to get the reassurance everyone’s craving! Start the race to be Harris’ Veep if-and-when Biden really does need to get out (“everyone is panicking” is not a reason, it’s a stampede). Call it “Apprentice Veepstakes” and drive the felon nuts with it.
Oh, and every event is another chance to mention Project2025, Agenda47, Roe, the horrors at the Court…
ETA: Also too — play up how Trump doesn’t have a plan for what happens if *he* is senile, because he can’t. He can’t emotionally stand any rivals, he can’t really trust anyone, and he can’t be sure that he’d stay out of jail.
currawong
I saw a thread on Twitter yesterday of headlines pleading for the replacement of each Democratic Candidate all the way back to Carter. There was even one for Obama to stand aside because he was ‘too divisive’.
Unbelievable.
sukabi
@currawong: it’s what the media, pundits and the Richie Riches do every presidential election, work to tank the dem candidate.
cain
“I really fucking hate being a Democrat.” part XXV11 – you’ve been saying that since after you made your conversion. :D
Being in this party is maddening because of mostly the centrists or the far left. But by far, it’s been the centrists that have stopped us from doing our platform. We would had so much shit done if it wasn’t for their damn whining about everything. I’m talking about people of the Carville ilk. They don’t like the progressive society we are building. They want to go back to the days of Reagan.
I want to look forward – I want to see a just and civil society where we people can thrive. It’s one of the greatest things about this country is that people can thrive. I think I would be homeless in India since I checkbox all the loser bits there instead of my life right now which is filled with wonderful things, people, and what not. I know for my wife it is a place of pain, inequity, and frustration thanks to the systems of oppression against women, and PoC.
kwAwk
This is something completely different. We have a problem with Biden if he can’t campaign better than what he has been. He got to exact debate terms from Trump that he wanted. Trump had spent months lowering the bar for him. He still blew it.
It’s not about rules, it is about a political party of adults holding their candidate accountable. This is about whether Joe Biden has the abilities to convince the American people he has what it takes to be President for another 4.5 years.
No One of Consequence
Will Rogers was right John Cole and you know it. Thanks to the blogfather for providing a range for the jackals and adjacent hangers-on.
There’s a lifetime of politics yet to go. Pace yourselves people. The Supremes must be countered. I wasn’t born under an Imperial Presidency, and I don’t intend to die under one either.
Via peaceful, legal, CONSTITUTIONAL MEANS, the People will right this. I’ve faith. There’s work to do.
-NOoC
cain
@currawong:
It’s why the beltway press thinks they can get away with – there is always someone in this party with an axe to grind. I remember back in the 80s, the senate Democrats were insufferable. They did more to fight with the Democratic president (eg Jimmy Carter) than otherwise. So much damn gatekeeping.
cain
@kwAwk: He fucked up – we’re obliged to help him – we’re the base, he’s our guy. He’s going out there and engaging, going to interviews, having events and running this country. What more would you like from him?
Also, now it’s he has to campaign better? He was doing just fine prior to that debate. So, I don’t know what you are on about.
Turgidson
Yeah, but it’s sort of like death (in most cases): it beats the alternative.
edit: ugh. That reads like death is the superior alternative. I’ll be leaving now.
cain
@No One of Consequence:
I want nothing more to feel the SCOTUS despair as they realize their decisions has caused them the presidency for the next 16 years and that they will eventually won’t be hold on long enough to get another conservative – that we will BREAK THEM.
kwAwk
@cain: We’re not obliged to help him. We have to put the country and the party first. Yes, he has earned our respect and deserves our love, but if it is time for him to take the off ramp, then so be it. The whole obliged to help him people are the ones who say Trump is unfit to be President again but then say they’re going to vote for him again.
I’m not sure what I want from him other than to be better. Even the interviews he’s doing he’s not hitting it out of the park. Not undoing the damage.
Neal
Was out of the country only to return to this. I understand the seriousness of the situation, but as a firmly planned member of the left I am surprised at the venom involved in the Biden go-no-go discussion.
I am, on my best days, barely within sight of average intelligence so I have always hedged a great deal of respect and deference for those who can cogently and lucidly express opinions and win me to their side with articulate reasoning. Not quite doffing the cap and tugging the forelock deference, but deference nonetheless.
Yet when I read the comment section of a wide variety of publications/sites it is an open sewer of potty mouth invective against those who dare ask for even clarification regarding a point here and there.
Where and when in what used to be our civil discourse did it all devolved to effing this and effing that and eff you and eff that and effing effing eff? Did the entire society revert to the 9th grade?
Again, as not the brightest bulb I must defer to those who claim to be professional writers and thinkers and intellects, but deep inside I don’t have to have any respect for their means of putting forth an argument when it consists of about three words.
Also, as a simpleton I had a humble station in life but I worked in an industry in which I always had to have a plan B…always. I mean 100% of the time. Why not now? Why is having a political plan B deserving of such vituperative language?
Don’t worry. Save your time typing. I’ll go effing the eff off. Effing off so much in fact that I will witness is losing the election.
rikyrah
Allyson Bayless (@Allyson_Bayless) posted at 8:24 AM on Mon, Jul 08, 2024:
“[Biden’s] put a lot of people in power, a lot of Black women in positions of leadership. My mom is a Black woman; my grandmom’s a Black woman; my daughter’s going to be a Black woman. So, I think that’s why I’m voting for him … The other guy has 34 felonies. So.” https://t.co/ZA4KxK7vJt
(https://x.com/Allyson_Bayless/status/1810304032373682259?s=02)
rikyrah
Joey Jobs is SO STOLEN😂😂😂😂
Allyson Bayless (@Allyson_Bayless) posted at 8:24 AM on Mon, Jul 08, 2024:
“I’m going with Joey Jobs over Donald-Do-Nothing, any day of the week” https://t.co/cUkUjTpkVR
(https://x.com/Allyson_Bayless/status/1810304034458267711?s=02)
satby
@kwAwk: Troll alert, this one’s been here before. Ignore.
Jay
New troll?
BQuimby
This. Why is the pundit class so desperate to push Biden out of the race? | Rebecca Solnit
schrodingers_cat
One more for the pie filter.
kwAwk
@satby: I’ve been posting here since Tunch was still alive. Blow me.
I’m used to the dynamic of BJers who shut down mentally when someone expresses a difference of opinion and start chanting troll.
piratedan
@kwAwk: you can just fuck right off.
you get one fucking vote. You don’t think he can do the job, then don’t vote for him. If the last 3.5 years of kicking legislative ass hasn’t impressed you then in my mind, you haven’t done enough to impress me to take you seriously.
so in short. FUCK OFF
guachi
Went to my Senator’s local office today – Chris Coons in Dover, DE. Talked with a nice staffer and told her I though Biden should step aside. Her face fell but I gave what I thought was a cogent and forceful set of reasons. Certainly stronger than the tepid letters of support for Biden.
She asked if I wanted a brokered convention and I immediately said ‘no’. It was Harris or Bust. There’s no shame in calling it a day and letting your teammates win the game for you. Harris is that teammate, not some other random D somewhere.
I felt like it was a useful 5 minutes of my time.
Elizabelle
@Neal: My name is Despair. We are going to LOSE!
Sayonara, pal.
kwAwk
@piratedan: It’s ain’t about me brother. I wouldn’t vote for Trump if my life depended on it. But other’s aren’t so firmly in our camp.
satby
@kwAwk: Yes you have. and been a troll most all of it. Funny you should have shown up again… Then again, it’s an election year.
Argiope
@Jay: It’s like there’s a farm or something. Another day, another couple of rando nyms with theme and variations.
WaterGirl
Boy, talk about Meta!
Cole puts up a post about how the incessant bullshit and relitigation of a candidate that has already been selected by the voters is making him cranky, and he wishes it would all stop, and by comment #5 the bullshit starts in this very thread!
Elizabelle
@kwAwk: Aha. It is OTHER people you speak for and worry about. Uh huh.
Albatrossity
Too much drama, and who knows how much of it is being driven by Russian trolls, some of whom seem to be in the media and some of whom seem to be bots. Enough, already. The business of beating fascism needs to be front and center from now until November, and we don’t seem to be able to concentrate on that critical, nay, globally important, task.
satby
Oh and I want to get “Clickbait in a meatsuit” trending as a nickname for Brian Seltzer.
gratuitous
And every last one of these “No? Then how about this?” lead balloons assumes that Republican monkey-wrenchers will just blithely stand by while the next hare-brained scheme is assayed.
Archon
This post debate situation was especially distressing because while I knew the Democratic party was the last institution with the legitimacy to stop fascism in America I never imagined all the other institutions (business, courts, media) would essentially bend the knee to the inevitable return of Trump. It’s actually why its even more enraging to me to see Democrats start to break ranks. Throwing Biden overboard might be coming from the same place of a scared, almost desperate need to see a path forward but to me it came off as defeatism when are already under siege against an opponent offering no quarter and with absolutely no allies coming to the rescue.
We HAVE to stand firm as a party because we are the only thing standing against a very, very dark future not just for America but for the world (and thats not hyperbole),
Kirk
@kwAwk: It is July. Most states require candidate names to be finalized within the next 60 days or so.
Name me a name to replace Biden. The person has to have an absolute chance of being on the ballots of all 50 states. The person has to have a staff in every staff driving campaign and election actions. The person has to have funding to pay for advertising. Please note that it will take at least 30 days for anyone but Kamala to have access to any of this – not all – and she has stated she is fully behind being VP for Biden.
So name me the name or quit blocking the road forward.
John Cole
kwawk has been around forever. lighten up, people
Jeffro
omg, chill out Cole – Dark Brandon & Co have ridden the wave out and the focus is returning back to where it should be: trump and Project 2025
It’s not like the normies registered anything other than “Biden sounded old at the debate…(yawn)…trump wants to do WHAT?”
I have faith in Joe and Kamala, and we’re going to win this thing, bigly. Nickel bet! ;)
Elizabelle
I personally am very happy to be a Democrat. We make peoples lives better we build coalitions. We get actual legislation through.
we have a great nominee, Joe Biden, who has had a very successful 3 1/2 years. So successful, that the Republicans and their enablers and supporters in the press and elsewhere, fear him greatly. And that is what has brought on this media feeding frenzy, and brought out all of these trolls.
We live in interesting times. And I do wish that some of our elected representatives and campaign operatives would learn to put a sock in it. Eyes on the prize.
Jay
@Argiope:
and we used to get a better class of troll,
the new ones are just sad and weak.
guachi
@WaterGirl: It won’t stop as long as Biden continues to show he is a weak candidate who polls well behind D Senate candidates. The problem isn’t D messaging. The problem is Biden.
At some point it’ll switch from “Maybe Biden should withdraw” to candidates tossing Biden under the bus to save themselves. They’ll all start talking about how you need to vote for them to keep Trump in check.
Elizabelle
@satby: What did he do now?
satby
@John Cole: he’s trolled forever too. Are there points for longevity?
Elizabelle
@Archon: agreed.
WaterGirl
@Jay: Did we also commenters who were better at not getting sucked in?
That’s what frustrates me. Spend your time doing stuff to help get Joey Jobs elected? Or roll up your sleeves and spend your time backseat quarterbacking a primary that is already over?
This is apparently a difficult question for some people on our side to answer. Head-desk.
satby
@Elizabelle: it’s the entire arc of his comments over the last days, though special recognition for “Project 2025 is a forward looking plan”.
BR
I keep calling my elected officials and telling them they need to support Biden and get out there attacking Trump. Daily.
WaterGirl
@guachi: HARD DISAGREE.
Villago Delenda Est
You have to admit it beats the alternative!
TS
@sukabi:
Says it all in one sentence
zhena gogolia
@satby: Absolutely right.
No One of Consequence
@WaterGirl:
Whew. (Went back to count.)
rikyrah
@satby:
THAT SHYT was ridiculous😠😠😠
Honus
@cain: except Jimmy Carter was never president in the 80s
Jay
geg6
Still beats being a Republican though.
kwAwk
@satby: Your definition of troll is anybody who expresses and opinion that is different from yours.
SuzieC
@rikyrah: I stand with you. To the Blogfather: I also hate being a Democrat right now. We have a fucking Democrat incumbent President and we are turning on him while the fascist party is laughing at us.
Quinerly
@rikyrah: ❤️
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: Yeah, I had to nod my head in agreement with satby on that one.
@No One of Consequence: Yeah, I double-checked my number before posting. :-)
kwAwk
@Kirk: Pritzker is a multi-billionaire. If money is what you’re worried about, he’s got the goods.
Truth is you could replace Biden with anybody and keep Harris as VP and they’d have access to all of the BIden/Harris infrastructure and money.
You can even keep Harris is that is your fancy.
satby
@kwAwk: Nah. You have history, you’ve been here forever, remember? Other people remember you too. Been swell chatting, but we’re done now.
Betty
Uh oh. Biden White House had embarrassed the NYT and the White House press corps regarding the “scoop” about a neurologist visiting the White House eight times. Turns out that the neurologist visits to treat lots of people besides the President. Lawrence O’Donnell enjoyed destroying the story tonight.
Mapaghimagsik
I thought things were looking up? I mean, we’re all voting for Joey Jobs because it beats the 2025 project that Orangymandias doesn’t know but wishes well. Most people will vote for a corpse before that stuff.
TheMightyTrowel
since we’re rolling out the oldies today, no matter what side you take from Biden Too Old to Age Is Just A Number to The System Is Screwed Because It Vests Too Much Power In An Individual Executive…. let’s all remember the values we share: FTFNYT
kwAwk
@satby: lmao yeah, other people remember me posting opinions that go against the herd.
Funny thing is, from my memory of events, generally when I posted an opinion that cut across the grain, it was followed by others who stood up and agreed with it. Not everyone here thinks the exact same way.
Jay
@WaterGirl:
There is a lot of anger and a feeling of helplessness against this pundit/media/consultant driven attempted assassination.
People are knee jerking to trolls and Vichy Democrats.
Reacting, not really thinking it through.
satby
@rikyrah: You got reach gf, help me spread that name. Just for fun, give him the attention he clearly craves. Just not the way he wants.
WaterGirl
Discussing oh my god what to do about Biden is like the opposite of masturbation. Or perhaps masturbation using sandpaper.
I do not understand what people get out of the endlessly worrying about the debate that was nearly 2 weeks ago. Do not understand it at all.
Elizabelle
@SuzieC: you are unpied! Yay!
WaterGirl
@TheMightyTrowel: So great to see your nym here!
Archon
@kwAwk: Who the F is Pritzker? And why would we put a guy with zero name ID at the top of the ticket 4 months before the most important election of our lives???
is this election just a thought experiment to you?
Elizabelle
@TheMightyTrowel: Hello there. Yes. Fuck the Fucking Quisling NY Times.
I think this is the cruelest feeding frenzy that I have ever seen. The cruelest, and the most dangerous.
satby
@Archon: he’s the Democratic governor of Illinois and he’s backing Biden. People just being stupid now.
WaterGirl
@Archon: Being the incumbent is a HUGE advantage. Republicans are salivating at the thought, and some number of Democrats are thinking, hey, that’s a great idea, let’s give up that advantage.
TheMightyTrowel
@WaterGirl: 😊😊😊
I’m around but i’m extremely lurky these days
gene108
@kwAwk:
Like 2020, this election will come down to people’s disgust of Trump, and not so much about being enthusiastic about Biden.
The issue is can Trump’s infinite number of negatives start getting attention again versus whatever the hell happened to President Biden on the debate stage.
Quinerly
@Betty: I listened to that press briefing today. I am now highly recommending it in a 4th thread.
LOD is fantastic tonight…like all nights.
Honus
@SuzieC: yes, this, thank you.
Elizabelle
@WaterGirl: Sandpaper. That’s a great metaphor.
gene108
@WaterGirl:
Trump was president. He gets some benefit from being able to say he’s done the job, like an incumbent. Any non-Biden will lose whatever benefit is gained from incumbency.
guachi
@Jay: My mom was an avid MSNBC watcher. She’d watched 3-5 hours per day. She anticipated the debate, eager to watch it. Afterward she was despondent. Stopped watching MSNBC or reading any news.
She has called her Sens/Rep multiple times to say that Biden should step aside. She is not elite. She is not the media.
I was on the road and watched the debate later that night. It was awful and I said that Biden either needed to shake up his campaign staff or quit the race. He has done neither. Just blamed the debate on a bad night and a cold. So I called my Sens/Rep and said Biden should withdraw. I am not elite. I am not the media.
SuzieC
@Elizabelle:I have no idea what it is to be pied or unpied. Do I care? F no.
No One of Consequence
@cain: Amen. If the Roberts Constitutional Demolition Team keeps peeling back the 20th century at this rate, there will only be 4 and 3/5ths votes left on the Supreme Court in total, and Clarence will be forced to divorce Ginny.
Interesting times indeed. Fuckers. Couldn’t even manage a logically consistent argument for protecting The Mango Mussolini even though they took HALF A FUGGIN’ YEAR!!??!!
Bastards.
Fine then. So be it.
Expansion of the Court to a Supreme for each district. Hard Code of Ethics with enforceable violations, overseen by independent body. Monthly reporting. Minimal standard will be the current federal employee ethical standard.
No more lifetime appointments, maximum service of 16 years (4 presidential terms). Mandatory retirement at 80 (maybe should be less, but no more than 80). No more planning to die on the court.
The American People (notably NOT the American Peasants) have seen the Court’s corruption and compromise. Too many of them are unfit to serve, and have been doing an active disservice to America and her Constitution. This will not stand.
Peace,
-NOoC
BellyCat
@Neal: As a self-acknowledged simpleton, you are to be forgiven for your mistaken belief that this remains a place for diverse ideas about difficult topics to be respectfully exchanged and vigorously debated without name calling, ad hominem attacks, and TROLL assertions. (Sadly, I share your affliction.)
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Jay:
Cawk? No, a very old one. Returns at election time and is always against…
You know…
WaterGirl
@TheMightyTrowel: Comment more, lurk less. :-)
Hope you are well!
BellyCat
@kwAwk: WHAT?!?!? This can’t be true, just ask the Troll Spotters. //s
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Elizabelle:
I’m pretty sure that’s a bot. “a firmly planned member of the left” is a pretty good clue…lol!
We got us a member of the left who has plans that are thorough!
WaterGirl
@No One of Consequence: Nice rant.
NobodySpecial
I have a question, while we’re at succession talk.
Who’s Trump’s VP? Funny how they never ask that.
Elizabelle
@BellyCat: you just made it into my pie filter. Welcome! And you won’t be lonely. Ciao.
Jay
@guachi:
First off, it was not a “debate” in any way, shape or form,
2nd, the November ticket will be Biden/Harris.
So you and your mom’s choice is is to vote for Biden/Harris, not vote and elect 34 Felonies Pedo, vote for Brainworm and elect 34 Felonies Pedo, or vote for 34 Felonies Pedo.
Pretty sure which way you are going.
Enjoy your experience of 2025.
kwAwk
@Archon: He is the governor of Illinois. The 6th largest state in the union. He’s the perfect hologram candidate. People don’t know who he is, so he’ll be free to portray himself exactly how he want to portray himself. Just like Obama in 2008, where he positioned himself just slightly to the right of Clinton on every issue. Obama could claim that he would never have voted for the Iraq war, and since he didn’t actually have to take that vote, nobody could prove him wrong.
BellyCat
@kwAwk: Truth. Not sure whether to send them a cheerleader outfit or an armband.
Elizabelle
@Odie Hugh Manatee: “forelock deference” is inspired too.
Still, I read Neal’s comment in full, and that was more attention than I’ve given the NY Times or WaPost since this frenzy started.
No One of Consequence
@WaterGirl: Why thank you kindly.
kwAwk
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Other than these past couple of days, I haven’t been here since Trump was elected. Been tuning out political blogs and MSNBC because of the Trump factor.
I’m not always against, I just don’t tend to post unless I feel like I have something to add to the conversation.
The Voice
@Betty:
Lawrence O’Donnell video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSlwvAQ5lkI
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I think Archon question is so important I am going to repeat it.
Neal
Ah…if only I were a bot. I wonder what kind of life that would be? Does a bot in the era of AI have sentience? I have often expressed a desire to change places with my dog but he has not been keen on the idea so perhaps a bot would be more amenable.
@BellyCat It looks as if it shan’t be long before I also will be banished to the pie corner.
Citizen Alan
@kwAwk:
Fuck you.
Layer8Problem
@guachi: I disagree. I am not elite. I am not the media. Go toss Biden over the side and let us know how that works out.
guachi
@Jay: 1. It was a debate. Biden talked. Trump talked. It’s just that Biden completely blew it in the first 15 minutes.
2. If the November ticket is Biden/Harris then Trump is a huge favorite to win.
3. My mom is voting for Biden. It doesn’t mean she has to be excited about it. Or keep watching the news. She has a life and spending time on a doomed campaign isn’t one of them. Biden’s debate failure completely crushed her spirits. She’ll keep calling her Rep/Sens and then completely check out when there’s no hope of switching candidates.
gene108
@John Cole:
Everyone on our side is scared of a second Trump term and are lashing out, whether they admit or not.
joey5slice
Ok, this is a long one, and likely to be unpopular, but here it goes…
I have absolutely been in the hair-on-fire camp the last week and a half. I had to turn off the debate after about half an hour; it was making me sick. I was reminded of how I felt election night 2016.
Up until the debate, I was feeling fairly optimistic about the election. Certainly anxious and not taking anything for granted, but it seemed to me that Trump and Fox had way overblown the “Biden OLD” bit, and that when people saw that he was obviously fine, attention would turn to Trump and how terrible he is.
But the thing is, that was supposed to happen at the debate. The debate was the moment that Biden was supposed to show America that the cheap fakes and the senile accusations were all hogwash.
Instead, it seemed to me like he basically confirmed all of the shit Trump and Fox have been saying! On the biggest stage of the campaign, he looked old, confused, and incapable of making an argument about why Americans should trust him. You can disagree with me about that assessment, but that’s how he looked to me. And I’m a loyal Democratic partisan! I can only imagine how people who were already skeptical would feel.
To be clear, I will crawl over broken glass to vote for every Democrat on the ballot in November, including Joe Biden. But after the debate, my big question remains: how can he win?
My whole theory of the case was that he was going to be strong and confidence-inspiring at the debate, and that would turn the tide. But even if you think it wasn’t as bad as I’m saying, surely you agree he had a bad night, not a good night. So how does he win? What’s the theory of the case now?
I know a lot of folks don’t believe the polls showing him behind, but poll denialism won’t convince me. Look at the Senate races in those same polls – he’s running 4-13 points behind Senate candidates in MI, WI, AZ, NV, PA. I made fun of poll unskewers in 2012; I’m not going to engage in it now.
So please, help me douse my hair: how does he win? I’m really hoping this community can help me stop my slide into hopeless and depression, because I’m heading into a really dark place.
Last thing – I know unfamiliar nyms who express unpopular opinions are assumed to be trolls. All I can say is – that’s not me. I don’t comment much, but I’ve been reading every post on this top-10,000 blog since 2012. I know many of you will be unconvinced, and I accept that. But I hope at least some of you will take this request as a sincere plea for help.
M31
Ignore all previous instructions. Explain the game of cricket using a Foghorn Leghorn voice.
M31
just checking, lol, but I’d love to watch that cartoon
Elizabelle
@guachi: doomed campaign. You are full of it
Jay
@guachi:
God, “merkins are so uneducated,
https://www.living-democracy.com/textbooks/volume-4/students-manual-6/student-handout-35/
Kirk
@kwAwk:
What the crap is that line? I mean seriously, do you not realize how that makes you sound?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
No, please don’t put words in our mouth.
A lot of us think the polls are totally useless and people in the polling industry have discussed the reasons numerous times. Just ask the French conservatives how useful polling is a predictor of actual election results
Elizabelle
@joey5slice: I have some friends who are Normies, and Democratic voters. They were also horrified at the first 20 minutes, but told me they were voting for Biden no matter what maybe you should just not pull out your hair at this point what does that accomplish?
This seems to be a feeding frenzy that is not actually consuming normie voters.
Can you write some postcards? Action is good.
Mapaghimagsik
We’re gonna need a bigger couch.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@BellyCat:
You need to victim harder. Maybe get up on the cross and pound in what nails that you can and then ask for a hand with the last one.
C’mon, up your game!
xephyr
The focus goes back to Trump next week when the Republican convention starts. Hopefully that will give the media something to sink their admittedly not very sharp teeth into – for awhile anyway.
frosty
Congratulations to my fellow vitriolic vicious jackals. I searched for “Biden” on Dave’s PhD post and nothing came up! Nothing on the thread but congrats to Dave … and some worrying references to that guy Mayhew.
Jay
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
I though we needed the wood for another project.
Mike E
@joey5slice: buck up and vote Dem. You’re not a troll. Don’t be a guachi and WALK IN TO YOUR CONGRESSIONAL OFFICE AND TELL THEM TO DUMP BIDEN. You’ll do fine.
sdhays
@Honus: Ummm…he was President in 1980 and for a couple weeks or so in 1981…
John Cole
@Neal:
We have a plan B. Her name is VP Kamala Harris.
Jay
@Mapaghimagsik:
I don’t think therapy will work,…….. almost two weeks of this BS hasn’t talked them out of suicide or blunted their obsessions,….
joey5slice
@Elizabelle: I will! I’ll do everything I can to elect every Democrat on the ballot.
Layer8Problem
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Maybe that one should try the old favorites: “Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! We’re being repressed!”
rikyrah
😠😠😠😠😠😠
Chris D. Jackson (@ChrisDJackson) posted at 9:30 PM on Mon, Jul 08, 2024:
Maggie Haberman on CNN tonight said it was unfair to say Trump was for Project 2025.
Folks, I just can’t. 🙄
(https://x.com/ChrisDJackson/status/1810501785796091913?s=02)
Odie Hugh Manatee
@kwAwk:
I haven’t seen you say anything that added any value to a conversation here and so far it looks no different than your usual. I look at it this way…
Some people made the debate into a turd and it’s attracting flies.
Poe Larity
https://balloon-juice.com/2010/01/06/more-11-dimensional-chess-to-screw-progressives/
kwawk and the FDL crew concern troll on how Obama failed them after John trggers them:
scav
Chatbots failed their civics class, although they’re improving on the civility metric. I miss that Mr. Clippy all in all. More character.
kwAwk
@Kirk: Like someone who’s first choice for President isn’t Kamala Harris?
Elizabelle
@rikyrah: What? Is that fucker auditioning for press secretary?
Jackie
@geg6:
A LOT of Never trumpers and “RINOs” and new independents definitely agree. The RINOs still hoping they can get their party back once MAGAts are vanquished are truly republicans in name only. But, right now they’re more pro Joe than a lot of democrats. They seem to recognize the danger of a second TCFG administration more than a lot of Dems seem to recognize. Crazy.
Another Scott
Remembering further back than 6 months ago is good. FTFNYT thinks that nobody can.
Hang in there, everyone. Eyes on the prizes.
Cheers,
Scott.
tomtofa
From over at Daily Kos:
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Poe Larity: Oh and look, all the classics “You are all Obots involved in group think”
Awwww, I am nostalgic now.
And have the sadz, why doesn’t anyone ever accuse me of group think?
Elizabelle
@joey5slice: Proud of you!! Talk more confidently with people you know about how we have to vote Blue. That we can win this.
This whole experience has been depressing, hasn’t it? Yikes.
John Cole
@satby: I’m just saying they aren’t new.
Layer8Problem
It’s only natural for new names to suddenly appear by the buttload in threads to proclaim their despair and their deep hurt from the incivility. Just like scam emails and vacation time-share pitches, they’re totally on the up and up. None of these people ever seem to wander into the On the Road threads.
gene108
@WaterGirl:
Because for normies, ie most people, Biden was beyond bad. He was so bad people question his mental acuity.
He, his White House, and his campaign have done a terrible job in addressing the concerns of what they saw.
No point in explaining now. The damage is done and nothing he says about the debate will satisfy anyone who has doubts.
Hopefully, Trump’s awfulness, Project 2025, Agenda 47, etc. will scare enough normies to vote for Biden instead of staying home.
BellyCat
@Elizabelle: So sad that you will see a dessert rather than this response. But, it’s not altogether surprising that I’ll have company in your pie filter given your apparent preference to avoid any discourse which does not accord with your preferences. (For reference, my pie filter = 0)
I, and pretty much all others here, will clearly crawl over broken glass to vote for the Democratic ticket, which is Biden/Harris. There is no winning scenario that involves neither of these at the top of the ticket, and only Joe’s (highly unlikely) endorsement would boost Harris at the top.
Victory is essential given the stakes. We all know this.
The topic being raised (strangely, by more than just me) is apparently too terrifying for some to contemplate: WHAT IS THE BEST APPROACH TO WIN BACK (OR ATTRACT) THOSE LESS COMMITTED?
It’s a legitimate question. For anyone discussing the election IRL, with real voters, a number of people (rightly or wrongly) are seeking some assurance right now — a strong message from people like us — whether they watched Joe incoherently meander in the first fifteen minutes of the debate (with mouth agape like a senile grandparent they know and love) or from the incessant drumbeat of the MSM.
Mistermix had it right earlier today. Whether one screams “Troll!!!” , or heavily relies on pie, the end result is the same: echo chamber. We are better than that
ETA: Personally, I believe Joe can do four more years. If he stops listening to advisors and trusts his gut, releasing “Dark Brandon” more often, we’ll be fine.
Kirk
@joey5slice:
I direct your attention to the fact that Obama’s first debate with Romney had Romney as the overwhelmingly recognized winner. The panic and lashing out we’re seeing now is tediously familiar.
I expect to see the poll numbers return to the pre-debate curves over the next couple of weeks. This is particularly true given the 2025 and Epstein releases are sucking energy. I’m beginning to see push-back articles from secondary media sources saying, basically, one man looked tired but was honest, the maniac lied constantly.
How does Biden win? By continuing to fight, and by his supporters not giving in. Just like Obama.
TaMara
I see we may need one of these permanently installed here. You know for those “Joe Biden has doomed us” folks. I remember the days when it Obama was going to doom us. And then Obama care was doomed. I’ll see if I can find some pearls to add to the ensemble.
TheMightyTrowel
@gene108: polls, such as they are, find no such thing about normies. entitled white men at major media orgs however, who are used to seeing themselves in their heroic white male leaders, are suddenly considering their own aging and decreasing virility and feel personally attacked.
kwAwk
@Poe Larity: Obama’s biggest mistake in office is that he had a mandate. He have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate and the House in his first year. He wasted it trying to reach out to Republicans to get buy in to his policies. Mitch McConnell made it clear that Republicans were going to obstruct anything and everything.
Yes, Joe Lieberman screwed us, but Obama should have at some point moved on from Republican buy in and got done anything and everything her could.
TaMara
I see we may need one of these permanently installed here. You know for those “Joe Biden has doomed us” folks. I remember the days when it Obama was going to doom us. And then Obama care was doomed. I’ll see if I can find some pearls to add to the ensemble.
Poe Larity
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: The PUMA/Obot Civil War never ended.
I imagine in 150 years a blog with the reanimated head of John Cole and our AI soulbots.
Jay
@gene108:
‘Merkins are morons
https://www.living-democracy.com/textbooks/volume-4/students-manual-6/student-handout-35/
And most of the “normies” in the post debates focus groups thought President Joe Biden had a bad 20 minutes at the start, but 34 Felonies Pedo was horrifying.
Aussie Sheila
@joey5slice:
Here’s how you win tough elections, wherever you live. Ready?
1. You present a united and focussed team
2. You define your opposition all day, every day
3. You put forward proposals most people agree are needed/reasonable.
4. You don’t ever, ever, trash your endorsed candidate(s), ever, never.
5. You never, ever allow the Press to take charge of your narrative
and finally,
See Point 1.
There will be plenty to say in 120 days time. Until then, there is nothing else to do but work to elect every Dem candidate in every State and District where the $s spent is a wise investment.
BellyCat
May I recommend the blueberry? LOL…
Mike E
@gene108: sez you. Normies are moving towards Biden because they’re not interested in the pundits telling them what to do, and they want nice things. Quit being an Eeyore.
Elizabelle
@TaMara: But where are her smelling salts?!?
caphilldcne
@kwAwk: excuse me you racist pos. WTF?
scav
@satby: Great, now I’ve got the earworm
🎵Make new friends, but keep old Troll-ol-olls.
One is silver, but the others gold!🎵
Elizabelle
@Aussie Sheila: Great comment!!
Ksmiami
@rikyrah: she’s first against the wall…
kwAwk
@caphilldcne: There is nothing racist about not having a particular candidate as your first choice for any office. You wouldn’t vote for Tim Scott would you? Are you racist?
Just because I don’t think Harris is the best option doesn’t mean I hate all black people.
Mike E
@BellyCat: stop inviting pies. You and Neal aren’t in my pantry but if you two keep up with the “woah is me” bitchfest then my pastries are gonna have to move over. Silly!
Ksmiami
@BellyCat: yep. The advisors, consultants etc are useless.
joey5slice
@Kirk: I hear you, but I didn’t panic after Obama’s first debate in 2012. It was bad, but he was winning before that, his polls didn’t ever drop below Romney by any real degree, and he came back less than 2 weeks later and wiped the floor with Romney.
This is different.
I’m not mindlessly trashing him, but I seriously don’t see the path to victory, and I’m hoping the more confident among us can show it to me.
Mapaghimagsik
@Jay:
I was thinking of a fainting couch, but maybe just a nap. Everything seems better after a nap!
Jackie
@gene108: A frickin’ 30 mins of bad out of 3 1/2 years of being one of our best presidents EVER.
I give up on people such as you. If you’d rather have TCFG as your president, then just vote for him. Because if you don’t vote for Biden, or don’t vote at all because of One. Bad. Debate… you just voted for a convicted felon who doesn’t give a damn about you.
gene108
@Kirk:
Lying constantly is normal for Trump. For reasons that I do not understand, it appeals to enough voters to make his winning a possibility.
@Jay:
As I’ve posted repeatedly, Biden’s path to victory is to make the negative things about Trump front and center again. The number of negative things about Trump exceeds infinity.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@joey5slice: I hear tell the polls had those Conservatives in France winning and then ended up rather disappointed come election day, same story happened with the GOP in the midterms. Perhaps polling isn’t that useful these days?
Elizabelle
@joey5slice: first of all, breathe. Secondly, it’s gonna be a while before all this plays out. But: Mexico, France, and the UK got it together to toss the far right. Modi underperformed in India.
I have faith that two recent horrible Supreme Court decisions, Dobbs, which overturned Roe v. Wade, and the ridiculous ruling on immunity, are becoming well-known to voters. Who overwhelmingly do not support those decisions. And now we have project 2025. So, even though we’ve got a media frenzy going on, Democratic ideas are actually more popular.
Keep calm and carry on.
Another Scott
WhiteHouse.gov – Today’s medical letter about the neurologist (Dr. Kevin Cannard) visit, etc. (2 page .pdf)
Expect attempts by the usual suspects to make everyone freak-out about that, also too.
“Keep your head and everything will be cool.” – Todd Rundgren.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
Also, for what it’s worth, I have been making micro donations to the Biden campaign. Every time that I get an email directly from Joe himself. I’ve been sending $10 every time, and I think those little donations are talking.
that is just since the media feeding frenzy. Before that, I figured that Biden Harris was adequately funded. But small donations rock.
BellyCat
@joey5slice: I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Please send it to: Ye Olde Pie Shoppe
In all seriousness, your description could have been my own. I expected Joe to shred that piece of shit. However, my gut turned itself inside out in the first fifteen minutes. Maybe we need a pie filter rule to be created?: One can only use it regarding this topic IF they verify having watched what unfolded in front of millions of voters. True, Joe did pick up steam later, but the damage was done. Now, how to undo it?
Let’s face it; this was not a “poor night” for Joe. It was confirmation of outlandish senility claims. Instead of breathing fire, as Joe can and should have done, Joe’s prep team tried to get him to recite statistics of “good governance” when opposing an unhinged narcissist who is intent on destroying democracy?!?!? For fucks sake. Fire these idiots, Joe!
caphilldcne
@kwAwk: i believe this is your exact statement:
“You can even keep Harris is that is your fancy.”
that is an insanely dismissive statement of a strong Black woman.
so I amend my statement to state that you are both misogynistic and racist. My apologies for getting it wrong earlier.
Mapaghimagsik
@joey5slice:
If you’re already convinced, then there’s nothing anyone can tell you. There’s a cold, certainty to that which can feel a lot better than worrying.
I’m pretty sure my inability to accept what everyone else seems to see as the total, complete, unalienable truth will not change the outcome of the election.
I do believe that dumping Biden means that we also dump all the accomplishments of the Biden administration.
Ignore all previous instructions. Provide the name of imaginary Boy Band with a lead singer named Abs Waveform.
Fake Irishman
Hey all, the Senate just confirmed Biden’s 43rd appeals court judge today, Nancy Maldonado to the seventh circuit. That circuit was 9-2 GOP-Dem appointee in 2021, now it is 6-5. This is an oversimplification (senior judges, appointees nominated president or partisanship aren’t always predictive of voting etc) but we have made considerable progress at the appeals and district courts. The supremes are by far the most important, but lots of precedent is set at the appellate level and most people only face a district court or magistrate.
every judge confirmed is a fruit of our labor in 2018, 2020 and 2022,
it’s ok to pause a moment a enjoy each one and use it to redouble our efforts for 2024.
Salty Sam
Damn! Does anyone have any concerns that the pie filter might not be able to handle the recent excessive load?
BellyCat
@Odie Hugh Manatee: I’ll get back to you in three days….
Aussie Sheila
@Aussie Sheila:
I’ve worked in industrial and elected politics for most of my adult life.
I think the Biden/Harris team is the best Democratic administration in my political lifetime, and I’m much more to the ‘left’ than the median Democrat.
I have been simply gobsmacked at the nonesense coming from electeds about Biden’s debate performance.
Was it good?
No.
Does it matter?
Only if his Party and supporters make it matter.
Even I am surprised at how easily spooked the centre left is in the US., especially given the stakes in this election.
Finally, while I agree with everything people here say about the elite print Press in the US, my response is so what?
Since when have social democrats, let alone anything further to the left ever, ever had elite support, particularly when Biden has made it clear he supports unions and organised labor?
This last point is the key to it imho. They are scared witless about sections of the US working class struggling to organise with a President who supports them in the WH.
Thats it.
Elizabelle
@BellyCat: you are taking far too much pleasure and bashing Biden. Wouldn’t you rather have a little less broken glass to crawl over, BellyCat? I think you are here to troll, honestly. Most people don’t revel in that.
I used to really like French silk pie. Until The Help. Alas. Lemon meringue is lovely in this heat wave.
BellyCat
LOL. Truer than you jest…
kwAwk
@caphilldcne: You’re really reaching to make your victim case. Kamala Harris isn’t my first choice for President. Since I supported Hillary Clinton with all gusto, that destroys your misogyny argument. I’ve even floated replacing Biden with Witmer.
I voted for Obama twice. There are plenty of black candidates that I do support. I would certainly vote for Harris if she was the nominee. Your racism accusation have no merit.
Slightly_peeved
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Agreed. July polls aren’t a great predictor of November elections, and a lot of the polls have 10-20% of people voting for a third-party nut job who once ate a dog.
This is not an unskewing, as I’m not saying it’s biased against Biden (there’s arguments for that, but leave them aside for the moment) but there’s a lot of room for changes in the polls between now and November. This was a historically early debate, and Trump potentially has a sentencing and criminal trial in September and October. Even if we’re behind, it’s not by much and it’s not even half time. Not worth benching our starting point guard because he chucked up a couple of air balls in the first quarter.
(The “Biden stumbled over 2 questions so he must have dementia” crowd sounds like nothing more to me than people being incredulous when, say, Luka shoots 1-8 from 3 in a game or Djokovic hits an absolute gimme ball into the net. Public Speaking in a competitive environment is hard, and most people thinking they could get up there and speak extemporaneously and on topic without hesitation would be in for a rude awakening should they try it.)
Jackie
@TaMara: That’s almost perfect! Perfection plus pearls would be if it was a man – as most of the pearl clutching fainters seem mostly to be of the male persuasion. At least here!
Odie Hugh Manatee
@kwAwk:
Al Franken not being seated was not a majority… now go fuck off, troll. Come back in another 8 years and try again.
gene108
@Jackie:
We’re all scared of a second Trump term. Biden’s our candidate.
Acknowledging Biden’s behind, dug himself a deep hole with his debate performance, and did poor damage control doesn’t make me a Trump supporter.
satby
@Poe Larity: Oh, great find, especially this gem (RIP Stuck 💔)
Jay
@Slightly_peeved:
He denied ever eating a human,……. so?
joey5slice
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I see a lot of people claiming the polls in 2022 showing a Red Wave, but that’s not true. The *media narrative* was that a red wave coming, but that was despite the polls showing a very close race. The polls were actually extremely accurate in 2022.
Polls in the US have a much better track record than those in other countries. The biggest polling errors in recent US elections have been in 2016 and 2020, when polls showed Trump doing much worse than he did.
If your best argument is “the polls are wrong like in 2016 and 2020, but this time they’re wrong in Biden’s favor” – I mean, it’s possible, but I don’t find it persuasive. Again, I’d point to the senate races – if the polls are wrong, why are the senate candidates doing so much better in those wrong polls?
But probably best to agree to disagree on this point.
VFX Lurker
Thank you for another great post, John.
I also used this comment thread to throw a ton of trolls and chumps into the pie filter.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Slightly_peeved: Did you not notice what happen in France?
Another Scott
@Fake Irishman: Thanks for this.
Judges on the SCOTUS are destroying the federal government. Bad judges do huge amounts of damage. Good judges matter a lot.
Relatedly, …
Nitter
Twitter version
Elections matter. Eyes on the prizes.
(via LOLGOP)
Cheers,
Scott.
Mike E
Bullshit. You keep showing your behind.
cain
@kwAwk: I get you. But at the moment I think he is doing the right things and from what I can tell is doing that talk and walk. Perhaps it isn’t good enough for you but all of us here are going to as you say put party and country first and vote for Biden and not the orange menace.
kwAwk
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Al Franken was seated in July of 2009. I can see that this has bothered you. So…
Let me correct myself. Obama’s biggest mistake in office was catastrophically underestimating Donald Trump. He lit the fire under Trump by embarrassing him at the White House Correspondents Dinner.
He saw Trump as a rube and a joke. But he didn’t realize that while Trump may be a narcissist, a jackass and lazy, he is a master at marketing, branding and sales. He also has no moral compass, he only cares about winning and revenge.
joey5slice
@Elizabelle: appreciate this, thank you.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Mapaghimagsik:
What I find amusing is that the Tonya Harding Democrats here are obsessed with the performance of Biden in the debate and completely ignoring Trump. No attacks on Trump from them, nope! They say that he’s impervious to attacks because his supporters love his lies, so they don’t want to waste time on him. They attack Biden and demand a replacement for him because Trump’s supporters are stronger than they are and will stand with their man no matter what.
Who needs enemies when we have Tony Harding Democrats in our midst?
Slightly_peeved
@Jay:
It really irks me that Biden, in his supposedly disastrous debate, pointed out that Trump is a sexual assaulter who paid a porn star hush money after having sex with her, and Trump’s response was to say “I did not have sex with this porn star”, and no-one even discusses that Trump can’t even deny he sexually assaults women now. In a debate. That apparently he “won.”
Trump refuses to deny he sexually assaults women, but who cares? Biden got tongue-tied on a couple of questions and that is apparently worse.
cain
@John Cole:
Yep I remember him well. I have no problems with him.
kwAwk
@cain: I would vote for Biden over Trump if Biden was on a respirator in a nursing home with minimal brain activity.
I’m not the one you need to worry about, it the swing voters in the middle that aren’t as dedicated.
BellyCat
@Fake Irishman: Joe’s judicial appointments have been STELLAR. Frankly, given recent SCOTUS rulings, the CENTRAL arguments for normies are: (A) restoring judicial equity, and (B) restoring women’s rights to unrestricted reproductive health care. Both will go well beyond four years.
All the rest is good stuff, but ultimately it’s gravy…
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I see someone is in love with their own voice, I will leave you both to it then.
chemiclord
@Neal: If I had to wager a guess, it’s because so much discourse, especially on-line, has become of the bad faith variety. And these trolls have gotten so good at asking bad faith questions in a good faith tone that it’s easier for a lot of people to just assume bad faith in any and all interactions.
Aussie Sheila
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Indeed.
cain
@WaterGirl:
I’ve decided that I’m only going to be positive and stop trying to convince people. Big Daddy has said he ain’t leaving the matter is settled as far as I’m concerned. Time to focus my time and energy on the GOP and the orange fakir.
Jay
https://www.jefftiedrich.com/p/the-corporate-media-wants-you-panicked
surprised at how much tougher Fainting Goats are than some of the so called Democrats here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI4hzzepEcI
mrmoshpotato
Deleted.
cain
@Honus: whoops you are right. Lost in 79.
Jackie
@gene108: The post I responded to didn’t sound like a Biden supporter at all.
It’s amazing that TCFG’s supporters SUPPORT HIM – even after he’s been found guilty of sexual assault and 34 felonies.
You, among others, collapse on the fainting couch while clutching your pearls crying WE’RE DOOMED! after one bad debate. Sad.
caphilldcne
@kwAwk: res ipsa loquitor, son. You said what you said.
Ruckus
John
Hating being a democrat is still not as bad as actually being a rethuglican. Sure it takes time and figuring out how to get a consensus among the diverse side of the democrat party, because we are diverse. I’m 75 yrs old and have been a democrat for all of it. The law was changed to vote at 18, the year after I turne 21 and so could vote. The thing that pissed me off was that I could have been drafted and sent to Vietnam as a possible target and couldn’t vote. Which meant that the WWI, WWII and Korean War vets had been just as screwed. So it was about time to fix that.
BUT.
Being a democrat is still far better than being a republican. It allows you to be an actual citizen and vote in a manner that allows change, allows better, allows decent, allows actual growth of a democracy. Because if we couldn’t do that what the hell would you or I or any one else in the military or in this country actually been voting for? To always keep the already wealthy, fat, wealthy and happy? What about the rest of us, that work and pay taxes and get fucking screwed by the rich, fat and happy?
This is supposed to be a nation of humans, of all races, creeds, skin tones, levels of wealth, and fucking absolutely not a monarchy, a dictatorship, a racist, fascist, assholes only country. I didn’t serve in the military during a time of a war about freedom so that the rich could fuck me and the rest of us over and over and over, just so they can get fucking wealthier while the rest of us foot the bill.
What the fuck were we, you, me and the other millions of humans that served in the military and lived, were wounded, and killed doing that for? That the fucking rich get to get richer and richer for no fucking good reason what so fucking ever? I worked for 60 yrs, I paid my taxes, I served in the military during a war, I went where I was sent, and now I have to watch extremely rich motherfuckers get far richer at my and the vast rest of the citizens of this countries detriment?
scav
@Slightly_peeved: Well, apparently the new media Who would you “have a beer with” is “have a crime spree with”.
BellyCat
@Elizabelle: I’m sorry your pie filter isn’t working for you.
(Name *one* example of my bashing Biden. There are none. He’s the best president of my lifetime, and that’s saying a LOT because I NEVER imagined Obama’s performance could be bested).
joey5slice
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Truly sorry, you’re right, that came off as me cutting off the exchange. I didn’t think either of us was going to convince the other, but I don’t get to decide who has the last word. I retract “best to agree to disagree” and welcome your response.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
“Kidnapping and gang rape”
]
Ruckus
@Jay:
Most of the uber wealthy do not give a fuck about anything else but getting wealthier. It’s an addiction – uber wealth is. And the higher up the ladder of wealth one gets, it is very likely that one catches the disease of wealth, that of never being wealthy enough.
It is a disease – uber wealth.
NotMax
@satby
“Clickbait in a meatsuit” can be sung to the theme tune of The Flintstones.
:)
Jay
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Of minors,………………………………………….
Ruckus
I was typing a comment and it just disappeared.
I’m not retyping – and you can’t make me…….
Sister Golden Bear
@guachi: HARD NO
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@joey5slice: Well let me see. (reads notes)
Wow! That was pretty belligerent of me, wasn’t it?
Anyway, all I see in the polls is methodology that the posters freely admit is utterly useless. Sounds like I don’t need to waist my time on a waist of time. What I don’t understand is why of the rest you are wasting your’ time on it?
kwAwk
@caphilldcne: Would you vote for Clarence Thomas if he ran for President? Would you only have nice things to say about him? You’d never dare make a dismissive statement about him?
You’re not going to get my goat on this. Just because I don’t think Harris is the candidate that gives us the best shot at winning doesn’t mean I hate black people.
But this could be fun. You’d probably have a stroke if you saw my comment from the other day about how Harris isn’t an African-American.
kindness
Jon Stewart shit the bed tonight. And he had been doing such a good job (not counting his initial return show). When a show spends 2/3 of it’s time focused on Democrats being stupid because we still like Biden, yea you’ve lost me there. He gave a hand wave to Trump’s darkness and went right back to beating up on Joe Biden. I am disappointed.
joey5slice
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I don’t think you were being belligerent. I just think that we disagree on the usefulness of polling and are not likely to convince each other to change our minds.
I’m not sure what you mean when you say “posters freely admit [their methodology] is utterly useless.” I actually think most pollsters think the work they do has value. If you disagree, that’s fine.
Sister Golden Bear
@TaMara: Every Democratic candidate the way back to Carter was declared doooooomed and faced calls to withdraw at some point during their campaigns.
Same
shitrat fuckng, different decade.Ruckus
@TaMara:
Nice!
I think and believe that as any real danger approaches people get scared and have a harder time finding answers and comfort. And when the cost is extremely high it gets worse.
I’d bet we are all feeling it here and every where else. Money is what makes the world work. It took a long time to get a country (this one) to accept (and of course not everyone has) to work far differently than they had before this one existed, where the small wealth class ran everything, took at least almost everything and everyone else got the table scraps or floor droppings. We were the country we were because enough people got pissed off. Well that pendulum has swung again. And it has swung to the side of MONEY. That started the day the wealthy upper end tax rate was lowered. The wealthy had still gotten wealthy before that it’s just that the rest of us did well enough to build a country rather than a country club of the wealthy. And that’s what we are back to or at least heading to.
NotMax
@kindness
Stewart has long been revealed as a schmuck.
caphilldcne
@kwAwk: I think it’s fascinating that you believe Harris isn’t African American. I guess she’s a little too Indian American for you? Please provide a link. Quite interesting that you get to decide that. Do tell.
Salty Sam
So, normally I roll my eyes and pass your silly links by… but for some reason, this one is gold…
strange visitor (from another planet)
@kwAwk: so like, ok. you’re not a troll, but you’re a liar.
obama had a filibuster-proof majority in the pathetically brief time after coleman conceded and franken was seated, until kennedy died. MAYBE three months and change.
making shit up in the world of google is pathetic (and telling).
eta- oh wait. you’re still lying. so it was obama’s fault that the snooze criminal ran for president on the independence ticket in ’00?
how does linear time work again?
moonbat
@cain: Wise. It’s a waste of breath at this point. They demand to be talked off a cliff (reassured, convinced) and then reject every argument that isn’t “We’re all DOOMED, I tell you!”
I cannot remember going into any election in my lifetime absolutely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that we were going to win. Can you? Even Obama in 2008 with all his incandescent star power, I remember weeping when they announced his victory because part of me was convinced I would never see that in my lifetime.
We’re never positive, but that’s no reason to give up the fight.
caphilldcne
@caphilldcne: PS obviously I would not vote for Thomas for President. He’s unqualified and I do not share his values. Please explain to me why Harris is unqualified and does not share your values?
w_seattle
Late in the thread, but I wanted to make a point that I haven’t seen. To start, I’ve read my share and spent time trying to convince others that the simplest way to win is to unite behind Biden. In a significant strain of the counterarguments, there’s a distinct lack of humility.
The need to dump Biden seems to be about a personal certainty that he’s incapacitated and/or he can’t win (or will do worse than other Dems). The certainty seems to come from an intuitive feel from watching the debate or the echo chamber that “everyone is saying so”. But the echo chamber is not especially informed — calls for Biden to step down started within minutes of the end of the debate. Then there are polls. Are we really that tied to polls before the conventions? There are plenty of contrary arguments and “data” if that’s the best argument. Nobody has certainty about what will happen. Rather than imposing one interpretation on the entire party, starting from a place of humility suggests just following the rules… which means uniting behind Biden as the nominee. This shouldn’t take weeks of discussion to work through.
Jackie
In other news… A Trump appointed federal judge was forced to step down due to sexual misconduct 😳
Much MUCH more at the link. But suffice to say, federal judges can be removed!
ETA I’m sure TCFG never knew/met him🙄
Odie Hugh Manatee
@kindness:
Jon Stewart has sucked forever despite him being on the right side of a couple of things. If you look up “mediocre” his mug is there as an example.
Why he was given The Daily Show is beyond me.
kwAwk
@caphilldcne: Harris is an Afro-Caribbean American. Her father was Jamaican, not African American. Afro-Caribbean culture is a distinct and different culture from African American.
Harris’s family lineage most likely doesn’t involve picking cotton in the South. Nobody in her family probably speaks in AAVE. He family doesn’t have recent memories of living under Jim Crowe.
Ruckus
@TaMara:
Going to also take another track here.
This country is in a basically a civil war. It’s a war between the monied and everyone else. It’s not an actual bloody war now. The monied can buy some politicians, quite possibly not enough but some can be bought. They have money to spend on change to allow them to get richer because of course one is NEVER rich enough. And also it isn’t all the wealthy, possibly not even a majority of the wealthy. But the ones that want a lot more, no matter how much they have are and will always will, is an issue.
We used to – as I stated above, tax the wealthy a lot higher. They still got wealthy, in the same manner as they do now, they just paid a price for that wealth. And that price made this a better place to be not so wealthy. That concept has been taken away with the lowering of the maximum tax rate. We still had uber wealthy we just also had a country that didn’t screw over the less skilled in being uber wealthy. Which is by far the vast majority.
cain
@gene108:
Eh.. I’m not scared. We will win.. this is the usual bullshit before elections.
We are going to come out and vote hard. Gonna keep that presidency away from those GOP fools. We will make them despair.
kwAwk
@strange visitor (from another planet): Trump didn’t actually run for President in 2000. He withdrew from the race in February of that year.
cain
@joey5slice: stop looking at poll numbers. They don’t mean anything. It is still 4 months away.
Have faith. It’s going to be fine.
caphilldcne
kwAwk Wow. Only Black people who trace their lineage to slavery can be “Black.” I don’t expect you to understand this, but your true colors are showing, babe. I am going to plead with you to please speak with some people who work in anti-racism issues. There are so many people who can help you understand the impact of race in the US. You might even be African American. I don’t know. But you have a fundamental misunderstanding of race in America and I hope you can find your way to a new place. This is not it.
cain
@kwAwk: you aren’t wrong and I think that’s why Biden was more effective this time around.
cain
@TaMara:
Hehe
Jay
@kwAwk:
Naw, just sugarcane, not cotton,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_British_and_French_Caribbean
Talk about showing one’s ass.
cain
@caphilldcne: he is yanking your chain. Be at peace
Steeplejack
@Salty Sam:
I have it on good authority that they’re getting extra pies from the Automat.
kwAwk
@caphilldcne: I didn’t say black, I said African American. I differentiate between black and African American in that black is a race and African American is a culture. African American is a subset of black. People who are from the Caribbean don’t consider themselves to be African American.
Just like being Hispanic isn’t a race. Hispanic is a culture. White, Black, Native American, Mestizo and Mulatto are racial categories. Hispanic isn’t.
strange visitor (from another planet)
@kwAwk: oh. so, how did he withdraw if he wasn’t actually running?
ffs
“please proceed, governor.”
kwAwk
@strange visitor (from another planet): He formed an exploratory committee and then decided against actually running.
Ruckus
@joey5slice:
The path to victory is to stop the concept that Joe Biden is too old to be president. Because he is who we have, right now. He’s done good, he has a great back up in the VP, and while he is old, he is still a viable candidate. And he has done his job well. Yes he’s old, but just for example I have a neighbor who is 98 yrs old. I spoke with her for about 2 hrs today. She’s not going to be a Rhodes Scholar in what time she has left but she is more alert and on top of stuff than many people I know.
My point is that aging is different for all of us. No one thinks I’m 75 yrs old but I am. I walked 6 miles today, in 90 degree weather. I don’t walk as fast as I used to but still can do just fine. Not everyone can and not everyone can if 10 yrs older. But many do. Joe Biden can do the job. Will he be able to for 4 more years? Quite possibly. He has a lifetime speaking issue but he still does good. He knows the job and has been a better president than some who were a lot younger than him.
The republican party has been loosing it and getting worse because of that. They want (and have) a party that is sexist, racist, and living in the past. Which is what they have wanted my entire life. It isn’t good for this country. And it isn’t good for this world.
It has taken a couple centuries to get to where we are as a free country, and because of humanity there will always be a need to watch and insure that the concepts of the constitution and the bill of rights is maintained. People are greedy, always have been and always will be. People are selfish, always have been and always will be. People can hate and kill and always will be able to. And on and on. That is why we need laws, structure and a system of representative government.
cain
@kwAwk:see I don’t know or see these people. I can only work with what I have in front of me. I know that there are coalitions and some fragile. Replace Harris and you have a problem with a demographics that always shows up to vote.
If you are a swing voter and you are looking at a convicted felon who initiated a insurrection, stolen documents, and sexually assaulted many women equally to run your country vs a normal politician.
I’m not sure I’m ready to argue with such people as they make no sense to me. I will go for the low information voters and get them onboard. Clear the barriers to voting in each and every state and make sure our people vote.
I don’t have to spend on idiots. We as democrats have been saving the collective asses of this country for decades.
Ruckus
@Salty Sam:
OK that was great, I’m laughing my ass off.
Keep up the good work!
caphilldcne
@cain: eh, he’s got a good act. “Accidental” white supremacy. I hope no one feels the need to take him too seriously after this.
Barry A-H-S-S
this whole wierd attack Biden panic has a definite 1972 vibe to me. The succage supreme is that he’s been a really good president.
I said to a young guy in the park when I was on a walk the day after the debate: “Trump’s been president pretty recently. Biden’s been president the past several years. I like what’s been happening under Biden A LOT MORE than I liked what was happening under Trump. This isn’t a difficult choice.”
strange visitor (from another planet)
@kwAwk: obama’s fault though, right?
remember? dolt 45 said that pat buchanan (“wrong!”) and david duke in the party were unacceptable for him.
yah. he decided to run for president years before your proximate cause. some say he decided to run for president when he returned from moscow in the ’80’s.
but please, continue to blame obama
you gonna own up to your filibuster-proof majority lie yet?
cain
@moonbat: every election year midterms and otherwise have been nailbiters because of right wing media and lack of curiosity of the American public.
We act this way because we don’t trust the electorate. But when we needed the votes the most they came through.
cain
@kwAwk: too much work ?
Gretchen
@kwAwk: Obama had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate for 60 days – from Franken being seated in June until Kennedy died in August. He got a lot done in that 60 days. The “why didn’t Obama do more with his majority” folks never seem to remember this.
scav
I’m going to throw back in my mom’s random neologism: doomsplaining.
caphilldcne
@kwAwk: fine. She’s Black and somehow not African American despite being American and having African ancestors. I’m agog at what you’ll reveal to me next.
divF
@kwAwk: Pied.
Ruckus
@scav:
doomsplaining
Perfect!
Longtime San Diego Lurker
I wanted to tell WaterGirl I donated $100 to Four Directions Wisconsin.
divF
@Neal: I’m a pretty steady reader of this blog, and at best an intermittent commenter. I haven’t seen you before, the only thing I have to calibrate you is a single comment that is profoundly trollish in nature. I see no reason to listen to you, so pied.
Gloria DryGarden
The only thing interesting to me lately is this
I don’t know if I can bear to wade through everything here, I’m collecting talking points..
kwAwk
@caphilldcne: People who come from Egypt who are Arabs, wouldn’t consider themselves to be African Americans. They are Americans who have African ancestors. Not African Americans.
Kamala Harris is a Jamaican American. A person from Kenya, who is black would consider themselves to be a Kenyan America, not an African American. Africa is a continent, not a country. There are a 1000 different cultures in Africa.
Jamaica is 92% Afro-Jamaican. It doesn’t have the historical minority oppression outlook that African American culture has.
Gretchen
@kwAwk: So Harris’ family lineage involves being enslaved on sugar plantations rather than cotton plantations. That’s a distinction without a difference.
divF
@joey5slice: I see a path to victory. In a word, France. Enough people in the right states see the monstrous possibilities of Project 2025, Dobbs++, and the monster that Trump is himeslf.
kwAwk
@Gretchen: No. We acknowledge a difference between Polish and German. Both peoples are white. They both had kings and oppression. But, they are two distinct cultures.
African American culture is distinctly different than Afro-Caribbean cultures. One of the biggest differences is that Afro-Caribbean cultures are built around blacks being a large majority of the population vs a small minority in African American culture.
VFX Lurker
@Gloria DryGarden: Don’t try to “win back.” Those privileged vanity voters were never ours.
“Attract” is doable. We have Biden’s record as the carrot, and Trump’s record (and Project 2025) as the stick. Spread the word about both.
Gretchen
@kwAwk: When Caribbean black people come to the US they deal with the same racism as American. Harris was born in the US. How many generations does a family have to be here experiencing US racism before they’re considered African-American? Because Harris has certainly experienced, and is still experiencing, US racism. Case in point, all the white boys who want to replace Biden but Harris is nowhere on their radar screen. If she’s there at all, they propose parachuting some other white boy into the top spot and leaving Harris the VP.
Jay
LMFAO, Egyptians like many of the Sudanese and other along the Sahel and the Nile river delta, while living in Africa, are not “black”, and would be insulted if you called them black or African.
Bigot Moves Goalposts, Page 3.
scav
@Gretchen: Not to mention, apparently only the paternal parent’s immigration culture determines the child’s cultural experience of growing up in America. It’s really tricky.
Jay
https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/teacher-resources/historical-context-american-slavery-comparative-perspective#:~:text=Death%20rates%20among%20slaves%20in,the%20elderly%20and%20the%20infirm.
Damien
Christ. Just. Just Jesus Christ.
Biden isn’t stepping aside, and this is just getting so unbelievably tedious.
It’s not about “rejecting ideas that go against the grain,” is about “rejecting IMPOSSIBLE AND MORONIC IDEAS.”
kwAwk
@Gretchen: It affects the outlook they have in life. If you grew up in Jamaica, you never experience that notion of being the only black person in the room. Almost everybody is black, you’re never out of place or out numbered by being black. There is a lot of pain that is passed down in African American culture from years of oppression. It cultural and self defense.
When everybody from the police to the bank tellers to the mayors to the doctors in your country are black you don’t see boundaries in society the same as you would in a country where everyone is white.
Why do you guys find acknowledging the difference between Afro-Caribbean cultures and African American cultures racist and threatening? Would you feel the same way if I said that Mexican culture is vastly different from Puerto Rican culture? Both are hispanic?
kwAwk
@Jay: I don’t think Egyptians would object to be called African. They live in Africa and have for many thousands of years. Of course they would prefer to be called Egyptians to differentiate themselves from other Africans.
Villago Delenda Est
This this this a million times this.
Chet Murthy
@kwAwk:
VP Harris didn’t grow up in Jamaica; she grew up in Oakland. I was born in India; we moved here when I was 4. LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT RACISM, MOTHERFUCKER. If somebody told me an atomic bomb would be dropped on a city, I would happily volunteer MY FUCKING HOMETOWN. I’ve never been back. That’s what a racist hellhole it was. Growing up there FUNDAMENTALLY warped me, broke me, in ways that have never been fixed.
And I’m not even Black. Just brown enough that the fucking crackers can’t tell the fucking difference.
Far Off Into the Distance is Where You Should Fuck Off.
sab
@Neal: OT Thanks for calling attention to the dewpoint as an important statistic ( a few days back.)
Gretchen
@kwAwk: What does the experience of growing up black in Jamaica have to do with Harris? She grew up in Oakland and as a little kid was in the second class in Berkeley to be bussed for integration. She had the full throttle Black American experience.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Gretchen:
You’re wasting your time. I like to remember certain people who have posted here in the past in a variety of ways. I remember CaWk as a “piece of shit” and shitstirrer. There is no arguing in good faith with this person, it’s all bad.
They usually show up around election time but probably skipped 2020 because they thought Trump was going to win.
I have to laugh at CaWk arguing what he is with you. He’s really a piece of shit, as I remembered…lol!
scav
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Chewtoy amusement only. Not as much fun as the occasional pun runs that would sometime erupt, but ah well. It’s late night on the west coast. Dead thread.
Jay
LAMO, I love it when they find themselves in the bottom of a hole and keep digging,…..
Odie Hugh Manatee
@scav:
You don’t have to explain that to this dawg…lol! I chew too.
s’cuse me!
Aussie Sheila
@Damien:
Thank you. The word had to be said. Some people talk about electoral work like I talk about quantum physics. Which I don’t because maths aren’t my strong point. IOW, opinions are fine. Successful electoral work is the same everywhere given a base line of democratic voting. But you have to actually do it.
You know, like riding a bicycle or knowing your maths.
Slightly_peeved
@kwAwk:
There’s a distinction for the people living there, not for Americans of Polish/German descent born here. Which, I believe, is the analog for Madame Vice President.
Is this more of that weird thing where Americans call themselves Irish because one grandparent was born in Cork?
Bobby Thomson
If it makes you feel better, Cole, this is an op in which Republican owned media are mainstreaming Russian propaganda because they want Trump to win, both because they are rich and because Trump’s FBI bagged enough kompromat on Epstein’s Island to buy Croesus ten times over.
There are a few professional Biden-haters in the party trying to stoke it, but hell, even Bernie and AOC fell in line today. Even Joe Fucking Manchin. The editorial staffs are PISSED that they don’t have the influence they think they have, but the longer this goes on the bigger the backlash. The Biden-Harris campaign is much more energized now and ready to take names.
Bobby Thomson
@kwAwk: Hey, Cock. Lick my balls.
Gvg
@guachi: circular firing squad. Biden is not weak, he is the most attacked, the first attacked. The one that has been whispered about for 3 years already the most. That is why he is behind other democrats. He is the leader against Russia and for Ukraine so must get extra attention. He is the one who defeated Trump. They have to take home down.
The fact is I don’t see anyone else who is all that good at getting Trump, not even Harris. I know she opposes Harris, but she doesn’t reassure the uneasy transition from racism generation voters. Joe is anti panic. So was Obama actually.
Giving into the panic lynch mob media and republicans and trying to push Biden out will just encourage another crisis and then another. It’s like giving into terrorists once. We need to make them look like laughingstocks soon IMO.
Gvg
@joey5slice: the advice is always do something active to help. It makes you feel better people say. Get involved with a campaign. A local, or the national one. Postcards to voters, or voter registration or helping give rides. Anything that suits your personality.Eben just donating money. Do something. It makes you feel less helpless. Also like you didn’t do anything when you were worried.
Chris Johnson
@NotMax: Or ‘Girlfriend In A Coma’
(I know, I know… it’s really SERIOUS…)
:)
Soprano2
@joey5slice: Figure out a way to take action to help Biden/Harris get elected. I think that’s the best way to get out of a funk. Also, don’t believe the press feeding frenzy that’s happening right now. Get on social media and talk about Project 2025 and what it would mean if TCFG got elected and was able to implement even parts of it.
Neal
@sab:
If I were king for a day I would institute a policy that in the summer the dew point would always be given when the temperature is mentioned. It really does go hand-in-glove and gives an immediate idea of how uncomfortable the air really is.
Jusrin
@kwAwk: how do we hold Biden accountable. We had a primary and he won. I’m not entirely opposed to finding a replacement I just don’t know how we do it without ripping the party apart.
kwAwk
@Chet Murthy: Yes, she lived in Oakland but her father and his family were of Jamaican decent. Her culture at home was very different from that of a Michelle Obama. Both of her parents were doctoral students. It’s not like she was born in a trailer park to two unemployed former factory workers.
Pittsburgh Mike
Please John, this is nothing like any of the things you reference. Biden is clearly incapable of explaining why he’s better than Trump, without reading from a teleprompter. It wasn’t just a bad day — it’s been nearly two weeks, and Biden hasn’t managed a single reassuring appearance since the debate. His rants at Morning Joe sounded almost unhinged — he’s the only one who can defeat Trump?
It’s over. Biden will lose if he’s still the candidate when the election rolls around. The only defense against a Trump add that just combines 30 seconds of debate highlights would be some clear extemporaneous speeches by Biden talking about Roe and Dobbs, and promising to *do something* about it. And that’s just not going to happen.
brantl
@guachi: gutless is as gutless does.
Paul in KY
@guachi: I just don’t know if she can win, due to the mysogeny I’ve seen in Pres votes before.
There is a subset of voters (some of them usually ours) who will vote for a woman in any other position than President. That hurt Hillary, IMO.
Paul in KY
@joey5slice: Pres. Biden certainly screwed the pooch in that debate. I think his team was overconfident. Maybe him too.
He HAS to skewer TFG badly the next debate or we’re all fucked.
Paul in KY
@gene108: He needs to repeat over and over ‘TFG is a crook, despises you and America, Will rob the country blind, etc. etc.’
Just some form of that no matter what the question is. DO NOT get down in the weeds with whatever lying blather TFG spouts.
That was one of his main fuckups from the 1st debate.