Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

There is no right way to do the wrong thing.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

With all due respect and assumptions of good faith, please fuck off into the sun.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Giving up is unforgivable.

Fear or fury? The choice is ours.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / I Climbed a Mountain and I Turned Around

I Climbed a Mountain and I Turned Around

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What is this dude talking about?

I Climbed a Mountain and I Turned Around

Whatever happens, Biden or Harris, neither is going to win or lose by a landslide.  It’s going to be close.  Also, stop framing it as “Biden should drop out.”  If you think Harris is a better candidate than Biden at this moment in time, say it.  Because that’s the only option.  Also, Nancy Pelosi isn’t helping by saying that “the president needs to make a decision” when he clearly announced his decision two days ago.

BTW, I saw a snippet of Biden addressing union members when I stopped by a family member’s house this morning, and he looked fine to me.

I really was hoping to write about something else, so I will do what every Democrat near a microphone should do, pivot to Trump.  Are you aware that under Project 2025, 48 million women would be denied access to emergency contraception (Plan B not Plan C)?  That’s what we should be talking about.

Reader Interactions

375Comments

  1. 1.

    Dangerman

    What is this dude talking about?

    The wonders of crack?

    He wanted to be on the news and dropping his pants was out; saying possible landslide got him a slot.

    ETA: I didn’t watch. Screams mental masturbation.

  2. 2.

    TaMara

    Is there a link to this?

    This is what happens when you get your Senate seat because Obama interfered in a state election and let a much more progressive, experienced candidate twist in the wind. And yes, I’ve been bitter about that since it happened.

    ETA: I just called his offices and gave them a piece of my mind.

  3. 3.

    rikyrah

    Bennett is a mediocre man who failed up. He went nowhere in 2020, and has nothing to offer.

    Landslide? Muthaphucka, please.

  6. 6.

    jimmiraybob

    “BTW, I saw a snippet of Biden addressing union members when I stopped by a family member’s house this morning, and he looked fine to me.”

    Add to that his address to the leaders of NATO yesterday.

  9. 9.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @TaMara: I added a link – I saw it in the Guardian’s live feed.  I did not listen to the video because I didn’t want to puke up my breakfast.

    Also, if anyone knows what Pelosi’s game is, I’d be interested in an explanation.  She’s politically shrewd and was a great speaker, but sometimes she’s not the greatest spokesperson for the Dems.

  10. 10.

    TaMara

    Also, while I’m in a totally righteous anger mood before I tune out again. Fuck Pod Save America bros, George Clooney, Stephen King and Rob Reiner, Jon Stewart (useless fool every day) and Stephen Colbert – did I miss anyone? – for being stupid and gutless.

    BTW, any prominent women abandoning President Biden? I haven’t seen any, but I don’t want to make slanderous generalizations based on these men who have proven to be gutless wonders without a braincell between them.

  11. 11.

    jimmiraybob

    Is the corner being turned?

    Some headlines from The New Republic (emailed edition):

    “Booting Biden Would Create and Even Bigger Crisis for the Democrats” (Susan Mulligan)

    “Watch: Trump Fumbles Repeatedly in Terrifying Speech at Florida Rally” (Edith Olmsted)

    “The Real Targets of Project 2025’s War on Porn” (Melissa Gira Grant)

    “The GOP Platform Perfectly Reflects the Lunacy of Trump’s Party (Timothy Noah)

  14. 14.

    Kay

    Sure. That’s fair.  I think Harris is the better candidate than Biden.
    I know there’s risk, but IMO the risk tipped toward Harris with the latest round of polling.
    I’ll back either – I’m a good Democrat-  but I hope they go with Harris. Better bet, I think.

  18. 18.

    ArchTeryx

    @TaMara: Stephen King got on the Boot Biden train? That shocks me. The man’s way more politically astute than that and he damn well knows what happens if Trump wins. ANYTHING that helps Trump turns the real world into one of his horror stories.

  20. 20.

    Belafon

    I love what Pelosi did as speaker, but she, like a lot of the “old” guard, still seems to think at times that Democrats get in trouble for making waves. They all need to get Biden’s habit of calling some things malarkey.

  22. 22.

    Belafon

    @Kay: Which follows the usual pattern of anyone not actually being the candidate polling better than the candidate. That would all change if she was the candidate.

  23. 23.

    Kay

    @Old School:

    No, the delegates would have to back Harris – they will if Biden drops out

    I love Biden but the risk analysis has shifted. Now we need an upset – this trajectory is just merciless – we’re on track to lose unless something changes

    You cannot look at the swing state senate polling and Bidens polling and tell me this is “Democrats” – it’s not – it’s Joe Biden. He’s underperforming the whole Party. I don’t recall this ever happening before.

  24. 24.

    sab

    As a 70 year old woman, and one who was actively out canvassing door to door for Hillary in 2016, there is no way I want to go into November with a woman at the top of our ballot. There are just too many people who will stay home or leave that box unchecked. Even if the alternative is Trump.

    And I think Kamala Harris would be a wonderful president.

  26. 26.

    Natalia

    Honest question from a terrified lifelong Dem: I saw the first debate with my own eyes. What do you expect will happen on September 10th?

  27. 27.

    Kay

     

     

    @Belafon:

    it’s no longer a difficult decision for me. Stay with Biden and lose. Switch to Harris and maybe win. You have at least a shot with her.
    I’ll do the volunteer work I do in elections either way, but I’m hoping for Harris.
    Come on- Pelosi is the best strategic thinker in the Party – she’s hoping he steps aside. I’ll go with her. There’s no one better at counting :)

  28. 28.

    artem1s

    the only response to this nonsense should be something along these lines
    Trump needs to drop out
    GOP should replace Trump at the top of the ticket with anybodybutt
    Trump should pick Harris as his VP

    The GOP has agency too.
    Start talking about the decision they haven’t made yet – what happens when the convicted felon can’t assume the office.
    In other words change the fucking subject. stop addressing their nonsense scenarios and start replacing them with nonsense Trump replacement scenarios. Change the fucking subject.

  29. 29.

    hrprogressive

    Everyone who ever threw shade at people for daring to question the greatness of Madame Pelosi should apologize right now.

    That clip of her not standing behind Biden is pretty fucking disgraceful, IMO.

  31. 31.

    Kay

    @sab:

    If that’s the fear, then good for you for saying it.
    I am generally a risk averse person but I don’t think I have any choice – either change this trajectory or lose.
    we may still lose! But we will have tried

  32. 32.

    Kirk

    @sab:

    I recall two middle aged black men telling me at the time, “I don’t think America’s ready for a woman president yet.” One more step in my realization that misogyny in the US is stronger than racism.

  34. 34.

    Kay

    @Old School:

    I think he will if Pelosi goes.

    But you’re right – I don’t know that.
    if he won’t step aside we have to stay with him. But we should try to persuade him. Imo

    I think Democrats would rally around Harris. They want to win.

  36. 36.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    I was listening to the Josh Marshall podcast from last week Wednesday.  At that point, they had basically read the tea leaves and felt that Biden would drop out.   So they were giving reasons to be optimistic about Harris — including that she’d shake things up, and the Trump campaign would have to come up with a new strategy to run against her.

    I’ll be interested to hear their take today/tomorrow.   They’re some of the few journalists who cover DC who I respect.

  37. 37.

    Shalimar

    Everything else is important too, but also, does anyone really want to be governed by the “nobody eats bacon anymore” guy.  If that is a break with reality, I don’t know what is.

  38. 38.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    Sure. That’s fair.  I think Harris is the better candidate than Biden.
    I know there’s risk, but IMO the risk tipped toward Harris with the latest round of polling.
    I’ll back either – I’m a good Democrat-  but I hope they go with Harris. Better bet, I think.

    ‘Absolutely not.

    You’ll never convince me that this group of muthaphuckas would support Kamala Harris.

    Not even remotely possible.

  39. 39.

    Kay

    @Old School:

    I actually posted that same poll here

    its 5 days old and a single tracker

    i wish it were different, better, on an upward ride. It isn’t. His polling is very bad.

  41. 41.

    NaijaGal

    @Kay: If we lose it will be because key Democrats have lost their nerve or never understood how to fight back, not because the candidate is bad. And that’s a crying shame.

  42. 42.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    I think Democrats would rally around Harris. They want to win.

    No, these folks, don’t.
    If they did, they wouldn’t be doing this bullshyt.

    They don’t want to win at all. IF Biden’s VP had been a WHITE ANYTHING, none of this would be happening.

  43. 43.

    wjca

    Whatever happens, Biden or Harris, neither is going to win or lose by a landslide.  It’s going to be close.

    I wouldn’t be so sure.  I look at the places that have abortion initiatives on the ballot.  I consider how those kinds of initiatives have done, even in places like Kansas.  In part by turning out younger folks who otherwise don’t bother to vote.  And I think a landslide is entirely possible.  Far from a certainty, admittedly, but quite possible.

  44. 44.

    UncleEbeneezer

    I think it’s time to question the mental competency of anyone who still thinks replacing-Biden is worth serious consideration, lol.

  45. 45.

    Shalimar

    @Kay: It isn’t your decision.  Get over yourself.  Harris supports Biden.  There is no path to forcing him out and all the woe-is-me stuff is what Republicans and Russian trolls want you to feel.  If forcing Biden out was best for Democrats, why are all the anti-Democrats pushing so hard for it too?

  46. 46.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    They will back her.  But someone has to tell them they’re losing first. They are.
    Bennett is not telling you he hates Biden or that Harris is unbeatable. He’s telling you Biden is losing.
    More senators will come out and tell us that too – because it’s true.

  48. 48.

    Barbara

    I think any constitutional amendments on electoral reform should just abolish the Senate.  It is the most fucking useless legislative chamber — tying itself in knots deliberately and then whining about how hard it is to get anything done.  And yet, it apparently infuses its members with the belief that they have their pulse on the nation even as it actually renders them out of touch, clueless self-aggrandizing idiots more focused on being congenial than getting things done for their voters.  Michael Bennett, take a seat beside Mark Warner and I will see if I can find anyone willing to throw a pie at you. You really, really deserve it.

  49. 49.

    Searcher

    Give Pelosi a break, she’s 84, she probably just forgot that Biden already reiterated his final decision.

  51. 51.

    Al Rennick

    Harris is a much better candidate than Biden at this moment in time

    George Clooney penned a New York Times op-ed calling on President Joe Biden to drop out of the 2024 presidential race.

    “I love Joe Biden. As a senator. As a vice president and as president. I consider him a friend, and I believe in him. Believe in his character. Believe in his morals. In the last four years, he’s won many of the battles he’s faced,” Clooney wrote. He went on to claim that Biden did not appear mentally fit when they met at the fundraiser three weeks ago, writing, “he wasn’t even the Joe Biden of 2020.”

    Clooney continued, “But the one battle he cannot win is the fight against time. None of us can. It’s devastating to say it, but the Joe Biden I was with three weeks ago at the fund-raiser was not the Joe “big F-ing deal” Biden of 2010. He wasn’t even the Joe Biden of 2020. He was the same man we all witnessed at the debate.”

    https://www.mediaite.com/biden/oceans-a-leavin-george-clooney-confirms-bidens-decline-in-devastating-call-for-him-to-drop-out/

  52. 52.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @wjca:

     wouldn’t be so sure.  I look at the places that have abortion initiatives on the ballot.  I consider how those kinds of initiatives have done, even in places like Kansas.  In part by turning out younger folks who otherwise don’t bother to vote.  And I think a landslide is entirely possible.  Far from a certainty, but quite possible.

    I hope you’re right but there are a lot of people who vote illogically — i.e., vote against abortion bans and for Republicans.

  55. 55.

    Tazj

    @hrprogressive: For what it’s worth, Pelosi is now saying people are misrepresenting or misinterpreting what she said. She said she thinks the president is great and is not telling him to reconsider his decision. “The decision is the president’s.”

  56. 56.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    They will back her.  But someone has to tell them they’re losing first. They are.
    Bennett is not telling you he hates Biden or that Harris is unbeatable. He’s telling you Biden is losing.
    More senators will come out and tell us that too – because it’s true.

     

    You and will continue to see this differently.

    They want her GONE

    I can see it, plain as day.

  57. 57.

    Kay

    @Shalimar:

    I never said it was my decision. I have no idea where you got that.

    I’m out for today. I have no intention of being the BJ echo chamber punching bag today. No thanks.

    I said what I think is the truth. Calling me names or attacking me personally doesn’t change anything. i think you-all have gone off the deep end.
    Pelosi is now an enemy? JFC. Bonkers.

    This list gets longer every time I visit this site. How many enemies are on your list now?

  58. 58.

    piratedan

    maybe there’s an absolute shortage of sanity….

    Cook moving AZ back into leans GOP…. based on what?

    Gallego is ahead of Lake, the state GOP is cash poor.  AZ has yet to even have it’s primary yet and people are very aware of climate change here (since it was 114 yesterday in the Old Pueblo).

    For those in the state, there is an extremely recent memory of all of the lawsuits, all of the posing and all of the behavior of the GOP nationally and at the State level…

    I wonder just who the fuck is being polled and the framing of said polls.  The GOP favoritism is evident in the MSM, and what does the MSM use to drive their narratives… polls.

    One other note, if the Dems own internal polling is showing that Biden is in trouble, does anyone really believe that Smilin’ Joe wouldn’t step aside?  He’s been a party man all his life and only took this gig because he was scared shitless that Dems were floundering in the first place.  The guy has been inclusive in his cabinet picks, acknowledges and recognizes his peers and has pushed forward with TANGIBLE progress in climate change, labor practices and economic growth for the nation as a whole.

  59. 59.

    zhena gogolia

    @Kay: You said:

    it’s no longer a difficult decision for me. Stay with Biden and lose. Switch to Harris and maybe win. You have at least a shot with her.

  61. 61.

    Omnes Omnibus

    I think the fact that real trolls (not commenters whom we disagree) are showing and uniformly advocating that Dems throw Biden overboard is quite telling.

  62. 62.

    zhena gogolia

    @Omnes Omnibus: They had taken a break when it looked briefly as though the issue was settled. Now they’re back, thanks to Bennet (who got nowhere with his own presidential campaign) et al.

  64. 64.

    Kay

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Cook political changed 5 swing states to lean R yesterday.
    The generic ballot is now + R – pre debate it was even

    Your really believe Democrats are doing all this to kneecap Biden? They’re doing it to save the country from Donald Trump + Congress

    I have no control over it, but I hope Biden steps aside. It’s the best bad option.

  66. 66.

    schrodingers_cat

    @rikyrah: I agree with you. Supporting Harris is way to get Biden out. Once she is the nominee, she will be easy to take down. I am seeing this Harris on top of the ticket floated mostly in the left corners of the Twitter.

    Copmala will be back.

  68. 68.

    NaijaGal

    @Kay: Yes, if key members of a party go on the news to project that they will lose, of course they will. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy when you direct all your firepower inward at your candidate and tells me that those speaking in this way don’t know how to rally around *anyone*. It’s July but they already know how everything will play out in November – nothing good can happen for Dems between now and then. Just wow.

  72. 72.

    PJ

    a lot of this handwringing is based on polls which have been and continue to be completely off.

  73. 73.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @piratedan: 538 just put out an article yesterday that Trump has a slight lead but they still believe Biden wins narrowly

    Of course, polls have been shit for the past several years, but it’s notable that even with shit polls, 538 (who are hardly Dem cheerleaders) still see a viable pathway to a Biden win.

  74. 74.

    TaMara

    i think you-all have gone off the deep end.
    Pelosi is now an enemy? JFC. Bonkers.

    @Kay: You should probably chill out a bit, no one is calling you the enemy, but you are screaming at us because we don’t agree with you and telling us we and anyone who still supports Biden are delusional.

    So maybe you’re bringing on the vitriol yourself?

  76. 76.

    sab

    I was canvassing door to door in a blue city in a red state in 2016. All the punditry and political elite were sure Hillary was going to win, but that is not what I saw, and I was right.

    I am not going to go all panicky now when the same people are predicting Joe and Kamala will lose.

  78. 78.

    BR

    @Al Rennick: ​

    I dunno why, but Clooney writing this really guts me. I don’t care about Clooney, but people will pay attention. They will see him as a straight shooter, apolitical and ride-or-die Dem.

  79. 79.

    Soprano2

    @sab: I hate to say it, but especially a black woman. That’s two heavy lifts for someone to overcome. Look at what happened in Wisconsin in the 2022 Senate race, and in North Carolina. Without her winning the primary outright on her own, I think putting her at the top of the ticket is as risky as having Biden there. Maybe it’s not polite to say it, but it’s the truth. You’re right, a lot of people who might reluctantly vote for Biden will leave the top of the ballot blank.

  83. 83.

    Quinerly

    @Kay:

    Dems will rally around Harris, without a doubt. She will bring in some of the undecided, some stay at homes, some of the “I hate both Trump and Biden voters, and some youth. She is great at “prosecuting” Trump.

  84. 84.

    sdhays

    I would have more respect for the media considering this a major news story if Biden’s Republican opponent didn’t have exactly the same issues they allege Biden has regarding his physical and mental abilities.

    EVEN IF YOU ACCEPT that Biden’s slipping because he’s old, all that does is even the playing field. Unless you pretend Trump is young and not exhibiting brain worms, which is exactly what the media is doing.

  85. 85.

    Kay

    @Quinerly:

    Thanks for sticking it out here and being the dissenter

    It’s valuable. It’s echo chambery – not good.

    If polling gets worse you’ll see more senators come out. Sherrod Brown and Tester, probably.

  87. 87.

    eclare

    @schrodingers_cat:

    She cannot be the nominee, no way to get her on every state’s ballot.  Period.  And if I could click my ruby slippers and get her on every ballot, she would get annihilated due to racism and misogyny.

    Copmala would be the least of it.

  94. 94.

    Kay

    @Quinerly:

    I think so too. They don’t like either candidate. They’ll grab her like a life ring.
    Is this really who we want to be, anyway? People who are scared to run a woman of color? Fuck that. Let’s do it. 

  95. 95.

    Belafon

    There is most definitely racism and sexism in the Democratic party that would hurt Harris is she was just suddenly shoved to the top of the party, but part of that is because the candidate selection is a process, and what’s built into that process is “I got to vote, put in my voice, and while my candidate didn’t win, I got to be heard so I will back the winning candidate.” That goes out the window in any situation – other than Biden being incapacitated – that overrules the primary process.

  96. 96.

    Old School

    @Kay:

    It’s echo chambery – not good.

    It’s not echo chambery.  It’s people with different opinions than yours who are tired of having the same argument every day for two weeks now.

  99. 99.

    sdhays

    @Kay: I think they’re doing it because they’re bad at politics and think one weird trick will fix things.

  100. 100.

    scav

    Fucking hell, it’s not as though any of our sainted opinions will have any impact on what goes down.  We’re the toddlers strapped in the back seat.  There are actions we can do, yes.  But we’re not laying the track.  Sheesh.

  101. 101.

    BR

    @eclare:

    This part isn’t true. Apparently there’s a placeholder on all state ballots for the Dem nominee. There’s no name on the ballots yet. However after the DNC there will be and then it’ll be too late.

  103. 103.

    Cacti

    Trust the conventional wisdom of the BJ front page. Emperor Biden’s new clothes are beautiful.

  104. 104.

    Eyeroller

    Bennett, as far as I can tell, has always been a twerp.

    As to Nancy Pelosi, I would like to note that she was asked for comments the day of or day after the debate, I don’t recall when but it was very soon.  Her statement then was mealy-mouthed, ambiguous, and “concerned.”  This was well before there could have been any polling, especially of downballot races, to cause a panic.  It’s what she has always thought.

    Maybe she does think Biden has slowed down too much.  Maybe she doesn’t like him or Kamala or both.  Could be as simple as she thinks “I retired at his age because I thought I couldn’t stay on top of my game, why won’t he?”  Doesn’t matter and we’ll probably never know. The important question is why she felt the need to go on TV to say this after he said he is staying in.  It’s self-defeating.

    And to answer Omnes’s question from a couple of threads down, a big reason we are still talking about this is that seemingly every day some Dem elected shows up in front of a camera to demand Biden withdraw, or to meep about what losing losers we are who lose, or to continue to express “concerns.” Instead of helping to put out the fire, they’re throwing fuel on it.

  105. 105.

    WaterGirl

    It will never be enough for the naysayers.

    It will never be enough for the knee-cappers.

    No matter what Biden does or says, or how great it is, it will never be enough for them to drop this bone.

    Are we going to get sucked in day after day after day having these same discussions?

    Losing precious to time help spread information that will help people see that this is a choice about our whole way of life?

    We joke about “squirrel!” but geez, I would rather drill holes in metal than have these same conversations over and over.

    THEY WILL NEVER DROP THIS.

    We just have to stop paying attention and DO THE WORK.

  106. 106.

    Kay

    @eclare:

    so what you’re saying is we can’t run a woman of color?

    because that’s a different objection

    I think we can. We’re allowed. Let’s aim high. See if voters rise to it. They rose to Obama once. They’re capable of it.

  108. 108.

    Belafon

    @Kay: What I love about this statement is your complete lack of understanding that Democratic voters don’t do fall in line.

  111. 111.

    Quinerly

    @zhena gogolia: do you really think everyone who has asked Biden to step aside would NOT vote for him in Nov if he stayed in?

    Who are the people now supporting Biden who would suddenly switch to Trump if Biden drops out and Harris is the nominee?

  112. 112.

    zhena gogolia

    @Kay: If you recall, Obama was a candidate in a series of primary elections that he won. That’s how he became the presidential candidate.

  115. 115.

    zhena gogolia

    @Quinerly: Biden has said he is not dropping out. It’s his decision. He is the candidate who has run in primary elections and won them. Do we want Trump or Biden? That is the question. There is no other at this point.

  116. 116.

    eclare

    @Kay:

    I am saying we can’t run any woman.

    And this is besides the point, because logistically it’s too late.

  117. 117.

    BarcaChicago

    I’ve been keeping my head pretty much through this media-driven shit storm. We’ve been through plenty before and Democratic voters very much have their eyes on the prize for 2024, for obvious reasons.

    The only thing that would cause me to waver is the fantasy solution folks – either through continuing to push the idea that Biden should make way for Harris/etc or by actually convincing enough party heads to do so.

    I am truly bewildered by the willful denial of reality from the “let’s just change candidates” people. Do they not see the trap we would be walking into? This would cause tremendous discord within the party and electorate, would propel a constant media narrative of Democratic weakness/disarray/etc and, most glaringly, Harris would be attacked every damn day in every damn way until the election. So if the impetus is shaking off the constant media sniping, it would be an utter failure. What’s the upside to this scenario?

    Sheesh. Let’s just get on to the next load of election year bullshit.

  118. 118.

    piratedan

    @UncleEbeneezer: well, to be fair, it’s the summer and for people who do not swim in these waters, they will not be putting their toes in until after Labor Day.

    I am coming to the point of view that this election is not a Democratic vs. Republican election.  In our view, the GOP is a backed up toilet of filth.  Project 2025 is very much an illustration of that.

    What this election is to me is everyday people versus those who attempt to shape and control public opinion and the folks who want to do that (Zuckerburg, Musk, et al) find a GOP administration much more pliable because they can simply be bought off.

  121. 121.

    Kay

    @zhena gogolia:

    oh I know it’s unprecedented. The top of the ticket running 5 to 10 points behind the rest of the ticket is also unprecedented

    Democrats want to win. Give them at least a shot to do that. Harris is dynamite – she’ll do great. She has a warmth that people are going to love.

  122. 122.

    frosty

    @TaMara: You missed James Fallows writing the resignation speech that Biden should give. You missed Timothy Snyder writing the four options ahead for the Democrats, of which three involve Biden stepping down.

    Fallows! Snyder! I thought these two were better than jumping onto the news cycle.

  123. 123.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Tazj: In short, They think things like inflation coming down, energy/enthusiasm from the conventions, and stellar Dem fundraising are going to move things for Biden.

  124. 124.

    zhena gogolia

    @Kay: I don’t give a fuck about the fucking polls in the days after a jihad against Biden in the entire MSM. I don’t give a fucking fuck about them.

    ETA: And Clooney can go fuck himself.

  125. 125.

    Kay

    @eclare:

    Well, I disagree. The way for women to win is to run women. Is there some other way? We wait for men to give us permission?
    They won’t.

  127. 127.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    This slagging on Kay is horseshit and needs to stop.  There’s a very real possibility that she’s right.

    Look, at the moment I think that sticking with Biden is a better choice for the party, but it is a close decision, and I could very well be wrong.

    I certainly think intelligent people of good faith can have a different view than mine.

    Another thing that Josh Marshall pointed out in his podcast from last week is that whatever decision we make, it will be made without enough information to make a good decision.  We’re guessing here, using our instincts to decide what’s best for the party.    He also made the point that the polls that will give us some information will start coming in around now.  So let’s all look at them (not something from last week) and use them for what they’re made for:  a general indicator of where the race is at, not an oracle.

    If Biden goes negative outside the margin of error then I’m open to changing my mind.

  129. 129.

    eclare

    @Kay:

    People did not love Harris in the 2020 primaries.  IIRC she dropped out before the first one her numbers were so bad.

  131. 131.

    Kay

    @zhena gogolia:

    Well, they’re accurate. There’s no secret Biden vote. There’s no secret Dobbs vote. Nothing miraculous is going to happen. We either act to change course or not. Not acting is also a decision.

  133. 133.

    jimmiraybob

    @Kay: “He’s telling you Biden is losing.”

    Oy.  The polls have always been so right about everything, especially, the “Red Wave.”  That goes for media too “Dewey defeats Truman.”

    Ultimately, if Joe-Kamala 2024 lose, it will be the result of tens of millions of Americans abandoning the liberal democratic nation and equitable governance that we’ve inherited in favor of the new-fangled plan for  iniquity and authoritarian rule.

    Some will do it out of complete ignorance.  Some will do it out of moderate ignorance.  Some will do it as a loyal Cult member completely devoid of thought.  Some will have capitulated to fear and uncertainty.

    With that one exception – the debate – Joe has been looking strong in his public discourse.  Kamala too.  I’m sticking with that team in that order unless Joe comes out and makes it clear that he is stepping aside and throwing all of his support to Kamala and Kamala then declares that Biden will remain as a senior advisor in support of their legacy to date.

    As to risk assessment, which I do professionally, a Biden-Harris ticket carries little risk at this moment and the potential risk is mitigated by a strong backup team.

    On the other hand, a Trump-Idiot Boot-Licker presidency is at Hyper Extreme Risk with absolutely no viable risk mitigation plan.  The Project 2025 playbook is for any idiot in power to enforce it.

    My conclusion: Biden-Harris is low risk with a backup mitigation plan to carry through to 2028.

  137. 137.

    Kay

    Now I really do have to go

    I have no enemies list. I think Clooney is a good Dem and so is Pelosi

  142. 142.

    SomeRandomGuy

    Joe Biden, knowing questions about his age would come up sooner or later, forced them to occur during the first debate by using a quiet voice, and poor make-up.

    Trump, being overconfident, will continue to broadcast hate and stupidity, making the contrast that much greater.

    Discuss. It’s a lot better than (as mentioned) saying “something must be done” because something has already been done.

    And I know, I know, Joe Biden only has 79, 80, 81 years being Joe Biden, and old people all become instantly stupid the moment they look old. You just see some wrinkles in the mirror dummy? Boy, I won’t believe another word that comes outta your mouth, you moron, you have GREY HAIR! Hey, live by the “old person cooties,” die in a farce, or something like that.

    Anyway: “drop-outs,” you could keep whining about how Biden has to drop out because you’re a chickenshit, how you just don’t have the courage to wait another 2, 3 weeks when (if there *is* a problem) the problem will become apparent, the way it has about TFG since 2015, when he announced Mexico was sending mental patients and prisoners and rapists and drug dealers. (Does TFG actually know what governments *do*? Long experience suggests he does not.)

    Now, now, now, I’m not just calling you a chickenshit because fear is making you do the wrong thing. I’m also doing it because it’s deliberately provocative and insulting, and courage *is* a virtue that can be developed, by facing fear and nevertheless doing the right thing.

  143. 143.

    Eyeroller

    @Tazj: So maybe this is yet another case of a Democrat making some lawyerly statement with a lot of words and vague statements, rather than just saying so in short sentences with small words so it’s harder to misconstrue things.

  144. 144.

    dr. luba

    Washington ― Michigan U.S. Sen. Gary Peters said Wednesday he supports President Joe Biden staying on the presidential ticket amid Democratic concerns over his electability, saying Biden can “absolutely” beat former President Donald Trump in November’s election.
    “Yes, absolutely. I believe President Biden can win,” said Peters, who chairs the Senate Democrats’ political arm. “And I believe that we’ll be able to hold the Senate majority, and I think we also have a good shot of expanding it.”

  145. 145.

    TaMara

    In case anyone wants any IRL experience, I went to coffee with my dad today (who knew it was take your daughter to old fogy coffee day) here in deep red Nebraska (and I mean the heart of it – more like the butt crack of it) and there is an enthusiasm gap with Trump for sure. The discussion was half-hearted. These old guys will for sure vote for him (my dad the exception) but I have to wonder how many will sit it out. There’s not a Trump 24 sign to be seen. No trump flags, no trump bumper stickers, no “let’s go Brandon” anything.

    And to top it off, there is a right to abortion certified petition on the ballot in Nov here. 

    So what does that mean? Does anyone really think if women turn out to vote to secure abortion they’re also going to vote to put a man in the WH who has said he will ban it completely? I’m sure the pundits and those wise souls here will tell us that’s what they will do.

  146. 146.

    Eolirin

    @BR: It’s technically the roll call that’s happening before the end of the month to avoid not being able to be on the ballot in Ohio.

  147. 147.

    Quinerly

    @Kay:

    Well, I said I was out but reading from the bottom up. I hit your #94. Exactly where I am getting in my thought process.

  149. 149.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I’m scared to run a woman of color who didn’t actually win the Democratic primaries on her own, because I know she starts with a heavier lift in a national race. Like I said, look at what happened with our senatorial nominee in WI in 2022 – the same electorate that elected the white Democratic governor also re-elected the white Republican senator against a black Democrat. It was only by 1%, but it was the same electorate.

  150. 150.

    frosty

    @WaterGirl: Thank you for this! Three hand-wringing posts in a row. I’m done with B-J for the morning. At least with the comments. Such wheel spinning!!

  155. 155.

    BR

    I was hoping with AOC’s statement and the CBC backing Biden the other day we’d be converging on riding with Biden through the end.

    I don’t care who the nominee is, I just want to win, and it made sense to me that Biden is it. In the last 24 hours a bunch of prominent Dems, purposefully and not, undid the last week of progress towards that goal. That more than anything takes away my hope for the election. Biden stumbling didn’t bother me — he can, as he says, get back up, and as long as folks back him up and put in the work then we win. But the fact that when the chips are down the party can’t get its act together doesn’t bode well for the election.

  156. 156.

    jowriter

    Let’s look at strategy here. GOP convention drops in 4 days.  I notice that the donation requests that I normally receive by the tens and sometimes by the hundreds have completely stopped filling up my email and text inboxes. That is worrisome as it suggests to me that a plan B is being worked on. By whom I can’t say. I hate that more than anything, but let’s not give the Republicans Joe’s humiliated corpse to dance on at their big party in Milwaukee.  Can we resume this discussion next Friday and give the repugs a chance to show their whole behinds? I am purely sick of all this. I am busy talking to worried friends to stick  with the Democrats for our survival as a country, and maybe as a species. Can’t everyone just stop and ask the Republicans what they have on offer? Convicted felon, check.  Project 2025, check. etc., etc. Dem messaging is abominable at this point. Let’s hold our fire for a damn minute. I’m with Omnes and waiting for black women to panic.  As an older white woman and lifelong Democrat I am ready to put on my walking shoes for Biden/Harris, as I’ve done for every Democratic ticket since John Kerry.  No one has yet convinced me otherwise.  YMMV.

  157. 157.

    Eyeroller

    @BR: ​Pelosi’s statement today says:
    “I don’t know what’s happened in [the] New York Times that they make up news.”

    Interesting.

  160. 160.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @$8 blue check mistermix: The base and leading Dems have spoken.  You literally put up a post titled “The Matter Is Closed” articulating all the reasons that the people who keep pushing this nonsense are assholes that are hurting our chances and our unity.  Anyone who keeps at it, deserves the pushback they get for refusing to drop this dumb idea.  No matter who they are.

  161. 161.

    Old Man Shadow

    If folks don’t think “President resigns (or is forced out) because he’s mentally incompetent!!!! What did Kamala Harris know and when did she know it!! SENIOR DEMOCRATS HID THE TRUTH AND LIED FOR MONTHS!!!!” won’t suck up all the media oxygen in the room for the next four months, I have a bridge to sell them.

  162. 162.

    Eolirin

    @Kay: Um, I’m sorry, the polling was absolutely wrong in 2022.

    Dems outperformed their polling margins pretty much everywhere except I think Texas and Florida, maybe? We did better even in the places we underperformed like NY and CA iirc. I know for a fact polling put the race for govenor here in NY at basically a toss up; Hochul won by 5. That was a bad result for a NY democratic candidate, but it was still several precentage points better than projected.

    The Midwest in particular saw bigger overperforming margins. Even in races we were projected to win, we tended to win by larger margins. That cycle was a huge polling miss.

  164. 164.

    Belafon

    I think some people are also missing the part where the Republican Party, with assists from the courts that they’ve rigged, are planning on really screwing with the election if Biden leaves. I know there’s a judge in Amarillo that will to totally grant Paxton’s request to keep Biden on the ballot “because that’s what Democratic voters wanted, and gosh, we just care about their votes so much.” And that won’t just hurt Harris, that will hurt Allred and most other Democrats in the state.

  166. 166.

    Soprano2

    @Baud: I posted the stuff about the WI race for people who are fond of evidence. Someone else mentioned that the same thing happened in North Carolina. Whether we like it or not, a person of color still has a heavier lift when they’re running a more wide-ranging race, like senator or president. It’s just the truth. There’s evidence to support that fact!

  167. 167.

    eldorado

    @BR: I was hoping with AOC’s statement and the CBC backing Biden the other day we’d be converging on riding with Biden through the end.

    This media coverage has to change if Biden is going to have a chance. Nothing can break through

  169. 169.

    geg6

    @Quinerly:

    You are dreaming.  She’s a woman and she’s Black.  Do you live here in the US?  Because that’s two strikes right there.  Not for me, but for the general voting public.

  170. 170.

    topclimber

    @Searcher: Nancy’s mantra to her caucus was always just win, baby.

    If she is trying to create a safe space so that some of her members can run away from Biden then that’s ok. Most of the others will be on board. The same thing happened with Obama.

    When  folks vote for these Congress critters are they really going to pick Trump or Nobody at the top of the ticket. (Hint: No).

    Meanwhile, Michael Popack had a LegalAF segment on how Trump’s insurrection case can still publicize the shit he pulled even if the actual trial is delayed. That’s because the Supremes have sent the case back to the trial judge to determine where Trump charges fit on the official/unofficial acts spectrum.

    Hopefully few weeks of evidentiary hearings in September will fill the news with the litany of crap he might go on trial for.

  171. 171.

    Al Rennick

    Statement from Mikie Sherrill

    Former Navy Pilot. Former federal prosecutor. Democratic Congresswoman for #NJ11

    Sherrill flipped her suburban district from red to blue in 2018

     

    “I know President Biden cares deeply about the future of our country.

    That’s why I am asking that he declare that he won’t run for reelection.”

    https://x.com/MikieSherrill/status/1810777735041798463

  173. 173.

    dr. luba

    MeidasTouch @MeidasTouch

    Northeastern University-led study: Biden’s poor debate performance had almost no impact on voter preference, new report says “If anything, it seems that Biden is holding on to his people somewhat better than Trump.

    “Lazer hopes the report helps illustrate the dangers of making a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to the media interpreting data. ‘Even the New York Times, which is usually better about this, talked about a very tiny shift that was totally insignificant statistically like it was evidence that it was a shift toward Trump after the debate,’ Lazer says. ‘My hope is that reporters look at this and say, ‘Maybe we need to be careful in overinterpreting noise as actual signal.’

    “What the report finds is that Biden held on to 94% of the people who said they would support him before the debate. For Trump, 86% of people who said they would support him before the debate said they would do so after the debate.”

    https://news.northeastern.edu/2024/07/09/biden-debate-performance-voter-preferences/

  175. 175.

    TaMara

    @$8 blue check mistermix: It takes a LOT for me to call a Senate office, but that did it for me with Bennet

    Fucker. I’ve been displeased with him since the beginning, this has done nothing to improve my opinion. His only redeeming quality is in everything else, he does his duty and votes party line

  177. 177.

    schrodingers_cat

    When I suggested that D presidents Clinton and Obama come out and issue a statement supporting the BH ticket. I was informed that wouldn’t help because Clinton looks frail. Ageism is off the charts here.

  178. 178.

    prostratedragon

    @topclimber:  You should know that he’s desperate to prevent any witnesses testifying. His lawyers will argue that Judge Chutkan can and should make the necessary determinations on her own, i.e. without hearings. Even if it doesn’t fly in the end, there’s that old devil, delay, again.

  179. 179.

    MisterForkbeard

    I’m with Cole – I’m just DONE with this whole damn thing. Biden’s the nominee, and that’s pretty much it. It’s theoretically possible that Kamala is a replacement nominee if Biden bows out, but he says he won’t and he’s had a good performance since the debate.

    In the meantime, you have idiot Dems and the larger media spending WEEKS talking about Biden will lose and take everyone down with him just because, and then they wonder why some polls might show Biden might lose.

    For fuck’s sake, asshats. Biden says he’s not going. Stop damaging the ticket for clicks unless something changes, because literally all they’re doing is making things worse.

  180. 180.

    Chief Oshkosh

    I wrote in an earlier post:

    I’m ridin’ with Biden and Harris.

    And I feel good.

    I have just about zero influence on which of those two end up leading the ticket. There’s no decision I need to make here. Expressing my personal opinion here or elsewhere will just upset other people who equally have no influence on that decision. Upsetting potential voters, turning them off to our coalition or to voting at all, for no good reason, is irresponsible. I have a responsibility to use my actual influence, my actual energies and skills, to work to get Democrats elected and to work to defeat Trump and his cult. So…

    I’m ridin’ with Biden and Harris.

    And I feel good.

  182. 182.

    jowriter

    @schrodingers_cat: You are so right.  Senior Americans have skin in this game.  We are parents of daughters, grandparents of grandchildren.  The Democratic ticket has shown us they care about the future of our people, our democracy, and the survival of humanity.  The ageism and ableism is beyond comprehension. And from so-called “leaders” of our party.  I’m sickened but I will never give up.

  185. 185.

    Mike E

    @zhena gogolia: George Clooney had One. Thing. To do. Motherfucker.

    Nancy Pelosi is the greatest Dem and she’s not calling for the president to drop out (yet).

  186. 186.

    JWR

    @zhena gogolia:

    George Clooney doesn’t look the way he did on ER.

    I wanted to ask him if he’s the same person he was 4 years ago. Of course Biden’s growing older, happens to us all. But damn if I’m going to follow Clooney or Bennett or f*cking Adam Smith, who was the first out with a “Biden must go” message once it all began to settle, down the road to fascism.

  187. 187.

    jowriter

    @geg6: Glad to hear.  I always donate directly to the candidates, so perhaps they’ve figured that out, lol.  Thanks for letting me know.

  188. 188.

    Omnes Omnibus

    I just called Tammy Baldwin and urged her to continue to support the Biden-Harris ticket.

  191. 191.

    tobie

    I’m throwing up my hands in despair and disgust at the circular firing squad going on in the party. I was planning on volunteering this weekend since it’s what I do every midterm, special election, and general election but am too despondent to do so at the moment. Donors, pundits, and elected officials have decided that they are wiser than voters when it comes to selecting the nominee. That is profoundly undemocratic IMO.

    I think Biden has a record to run on and it’s not just his staff that is responsible for the accomplishments of his admin. He knows how to move policy initiatives through the House and Senate and how to conduct diplomacy. He and his staff have been creative in finding solutions in the face of a very hostile judiciary (e.g., student loan forgiveness). Much of that savvy comes from his years in DC.

    I don’t think Harris has the same experience. She is a better speaker than Biden, but does not have the eloquence of an Obama or a Bill Clinton. They were rare talents in that arena and I guess we got spoiled. I’ll fall in line this fall but won’t fall in love. The whole nominating process has been too bruising. Democracy is hanging by a thread and Democrats have never been weaker. Putin, Khamenei and Xi Jinping could not be happier.

  192. 192.

    Bupalos

    @rikyrah: I’m having a hard time figuring out this take. AFAICT (I could be wrong) the overwhelming majority of Biden Should Quits are Kamala Takes Overs. You’re presenting a “biden should quit now, because he’ll win, but then Kamala will take over?” That feels like an inherently narrow lane and I’m not really seeing it.

  193. 193.

    Nelle

    Jumping in to say a big thank you to Mousebumples for the list of places for postcards.  I was in a Zoom meeting last night with retired folks who were paralyzed, frightened, and feeling helpless.  I  copied and pasted her list for them.

    I do think building community is vital to combatting fear and paralysis.  I do that with porch wine sessions of neighbors gathering on our big front porch and setting up regular coffee gatherings for people in the neighborhood to get to know each other and share our political affinities (haven’t been inviting Republican neighbors, though).

  194. 194.

    Martin

    Made it back from France after all. Sometimes things turn out better than you expect. Voters be funny that way.

  197. 197.

    Eyeroller

    @Mike E: Well-known guy on Twitter (Ragnarok Lobster, frequently embedded here) said “Democratic members of Congress return from recess to run headlong into a bunch of ambush interviews designed to harvest ambiguous quotes that will be twisted by the media to fit their campaign to drive him from the race.”

    Pelosi said

    “I think the President is great. And there are some misrepresentations of what I have said. I never said he should reconsider his decision. The decision is the President’s. I don’t know what’s happened in [the] New York Times that they make up news. But if that’s why you’re here, it isn’t true.”

  198. 198.

    Jackie

    Skipping the line to post this TCFG garbiligook on Faux Radio this a.m.

    A Fox News radio host opened a can of nonsensical words Wednesday morning when he asked Donald Trump, the former president and convicted felon, a yes-or-no question.

    Brian Kilmeade repeatedly tried, and failed, to redirect Trump’s rambling answer to his question about the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. “There are people who believe you want to get out of NATO — is that what you want to do?” he’d asked.

    Trump’s answer spanned the course of four minutes, saw him repeatedly speak over Kilmeade as he railed against China, COVID, President Joe Biden, the stock market, the economy, the cost of living, how economic rates are measured, the election, foreign nations sending the U.S. “insane asylum” occupants.

    Here’s how Trump Wednesday answered a yes-or-no question about his plans for the nation should he return to office in 2025:

    “I just want them to pay their bills, we’re protecting Europe, they take advantage very badly. Not so much worse, I tell you what, very badly, you look at China, you know China is terrible, but I straightened them out and then we had COVID and I had to focus on other things and we did an incredible job, we got it back. We saved the country, this country would have gotten into a massive depression if I weren’t president and I gave him a stock market that was higher than pre-COVID when COVID first came in. And what he’s done to the economy is horrible because of inflation. The costs have gone up at a level — I think it’s close to 50 percent, not 20 percent or 25 percent—”

    “So you’re not looking,” Kilmeade cut in.

    “I think it cost us—” Trump interrupted.

    Kilmeade said, “—to get out of NATO?”

    “You know they don’t include the real costs, okay?” Trump continued. “When something really goes haywire like interest rates, they don’t include that in their cost of inflation. But what they’ve done with inflation and what they’ve done to this country by allowing millions of people, I think 20 million people will be the number by the time this guy gets out hopefully Nov. 5 is gonna be the biggest day, most important day in the history of our country. But you’re talking about 20 million people, many coming from institutions, mental institutions and insane asylums, coming from jails and prisons all over the world. Do you know that other countries have the best crime numbers they’ve ever had—”

    Kilmeade tried again to interject but Trump kept up his train of thought.

    “—because they’re sending all their criminal into the United States,” Trump continued. “Not just South America, they’re sending all of their criminals, Brian, into the United States. We’re going to have a problem and we’re gonna get’m out.”

    “Yeah,” replied Kilmeade.

    “But this is what they’re doing.”

    Kilmeade then tried to return to the subject at hand by playing Trump a clip of Biden discussing increased contributions to NATO Wednesday night.

    “He’s taking credit for that,” Kilmeade asked. “Should he?”

    “Of course he shouldn’t,” Trump insisted. “They’re under attack. With me there was no attack, everybody felt comfortable. And I took in billions and billions, hundreds of billions of dollars. [Jens] Stoltenberg, the secretary general [of NATO], said ‘Trump did something I didn’t think was possible.’ I took in the money he’s spending right now. If I didn’t even take it in they wouldn’t even have a NATO to fight Russia. It was me that took in all the money. But they felt comfortable because frankly, uh, they weren’t going to be attacked. They knew Russia would never attack as long as I was president. When he became president, of course they’re paying right now, they’re under attack. If they didn’t pay right now, the United States, if they were smart, would say, ‘Well, I’m sorry, we can’t protect you.” ‘Cause they have the money to pay. But he makes a big deal out of it. Think about it, they’re under attack. He is such a dumb president it’s not even believable. Of course they’re paying they don’t want to be attacked, they don’t want, they want to make sure Russia, the United States, stays right behind them, Russia doesn’t attack them. But it’s real easy to get money when you’re at war with Russia.”

    https://www.rawstory.com/fox-news-radio-trump/

    The audio is posted at the end.

    Has this been getting any MSM airplay, yet? (Or will it?🙄)

  199. 199.

    Eolirin

    @Soprano2: Yeah. Here in NY, every statewide race in 2022 was won by exactly the same margins. Candidate quality for the various positions basically wasn’t a factor in the final results. The men had margins that were either 2 or 3 points higher (I forget which) than the women. That’s the penalty for being a woman candidate.

    Can be overcome if you have enough room to still win, but we basically need enough slack in the electorate to be able to win by more than 2-3 points with a strong white male candidate in order to be able to run women or black candidates and have them win. That’ll put some states that are very closely matched on partisan breakdown out of reach for anyone that isn’t a generational talent. People like Obama can break that dynamic, but they’re rare. 

    If we had run competent white male candidates in WI and NC in 2022, we’d have 53 seats in the Senate and we wouldn’t be at high risk of losing control of the chamber. That this is a hugely problematic dynamic doesn’t change the reality of it. Our best case with a lot of this is to have margins that are high enough that we can afford those losses when someone good comes around because doing that enough will eventually result in a win and help normalize voting for women and minorities. But right now we’re in an awkward period where we don’t quite have those margins. We have to be able to get to the other side of that. 

    And if we fail and end up falling into a fascist dictatorship it’ll be in large part because a couple of percentage points of people in the wrong places weren’t willing to give power to minorities and women. 

  200. 200.

    Old Man Shadow

    I honestly thought we’d be done with this shit by now when the President explicitly said, “I’m not leaving.”

    “But we’re down in the polls…”

    Then let’s make sure every one of our “normal” friends realizes what Trump’s agenda is, what the Supreme Court has done this year, and that you don’t just vote for a man (or woman), you vote for a platform and the platform behind Trump is rotten to the fucking core. Whereas, sure Joe might die between now and 2028, but the party backing him has your back and Kamala Harris can step into the role if he does.

  202. 202.

    Bupalos

    @eclare: This is mostly misinformation.

    The stuff about names on ballots really applies to candidates other than the two major party nominees, who have an unnamed slot reserved for them that is filled when the nomination is made at the convention. There are cases like Ohio where the dem convention itself is too late for the statutory deadline… but in no case does Biden at this point have any official legal status that Kamala wouldn’t have.

    Any lawsuits it seems to me would be meritless, just lawfare rhetoric aimed at stirring up the issue of democratic legitimacy. The legal reality is the party does whatever it wants.

  203. 203.

    Nelle

    Wait.  Are people still  blathering on about the debate?  Come on.  The decision is made and announced and all that happens now is discouraging one’s own side.  No one gives a rip about what someone posting here thinks.

    As I tell young people who say that their votes doesn’t matter, you are letting their propaganda control you.  Keep arguing and you fall into the trap.

    Get to work.

  205. 205.

    Cacti

    Looks like BJ is starting to rediscover its right wing roots. Californians are not real Americans Democrats now. Anyone who disagrees about Bush Biden wants the terrorists  Trump to win. Don’t believe your lying eyes, Biden definitely didn’t look lost and confused at the debate. And you’re an ageist if you think he did.

    Getting a little culty here these days.

  209. 209.

    rikyrah

    Been told you that she misses being a stenographer

     

    Mediaite (@Mediaite) posted at 9:45 AM on Wed, Jul 10, 2024:
    Maggie Haberman Says ‘Trump Team Is Delighting In’ Biden Not Dropping Out

    scary lawyerguy (@scarylawyerguy) posted at 9:48 AM on Wed, Jul 10, 2024:
    Imagine selling out democracy so you can be Trump’s unofficial spokeswoman. There are many villains in today’s media ecosystem, but she is right there at the top.
    (https://x.com/scarylawyerguy/status/1811049821593067905?s=03)

  210. 210.

    Bobby Thomson

    There are so many who showed their cowardly colors in the last two weeks, including a few surprises.  It’s dampening enthusiasm for the party (though not for the president) and they really need to STFU.  This goes beyond them getting primaried or donors freezing them out in two years.  I’ll be damned if I contribute to any committees that might support one of these traitors, and I am significantly less proud to be a member of the party than I was before they all embarrassed themselves.

  211. 211.

    Old Man Shadow

    @Cacti: The decision was made by the primary voters and by the President. We have four months left before the election.

    All I’m saying is let’s use that time to attack our adversaries instead of our guy and each other.

    If something happens tomorrow and the President is no longer able or willing to continue, then fine we get behind the Veep, but today’s he’s fighting. We need to make sure we’re fighting the right fight and the right people too.

  213. 213.

    prostratedragon

    Jackie!!!😈
    Ask a simple question …

    Kilmeade: There are people who believe you want to get out of NATO — is that what you want to do?

    TFG part 1: I just want them to pay their bills, we’re protecting Europe, they take advantage very badly. Not so much worse, I tell you what, very badly, you look at China, you know China is terrible, but I straightened them out and then we had COVID and I had to focus on other things and we did an incredible job, we got it back. We saved the country, this country would have gotten into a massive depression if I weren’t president and I gave him a stock market that was higher than pre-COVID when COVID first came in. And what he’s done to the economy is horrible because of inflation. The costs have gone up at a level — I think it’s close to 50 percent, not 20 percent or 25 percent—

    TFG part 2 after Kilmeade fails to maneuver him back to the subject: —because they’re sending all their criminal into the United States. Not just South America, they’re sending all of their criminals, Brian, into the United States. We’re going to have a problem and we’re gonna get’m out.

    His answer on NATO contributions is similar.

    _____
    It’s getting plenty of air here!

  215. 215.

    matt

    @Cacti: counterpoint – leftier than thou California hothouse flowers of politics really are irrelevant, and also stupid.

  217. 217.

    Captain C

    @rikyrah: He’s never going to marry you, Mags.  Or even screw you (except by giving you disinformation and bullshit, which you’re obviously fine with).

  218. 218.

    rikyrah

    Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) posted at 10:00 AM on Wed, Jul 10, 2024:
    As Trump tries to distance himself from Project 2025, here’s a big flag:

    The Heritage Foundation, the ultra-conservative group behind Project 2025, is a sponsor of the Republican National Convention.

    What’s more: Heritage plans to hold a day-long ‘policy fest’ in Milwaukee on the opening day of the convention.
    jsonline.com/story/news/pol…
    (https://x.com/kylegriffin1/status/1811052999868862816?t=QZ4FFq1zO2L-DuWc9g9WCA&s=03)

  219. 219.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Here’s a prediction (and take it for what it’s worth):

    If the Democrats punk out and stab Biden in the back, the Democratic Party will lose Gen Z. You’ll never get them back.

    Why? Because it will be evidence that both political parties won’t do anything for them.

    The GOP will continue to fuck them over because that’s what they do.

    And the Democrats will do nothing to stop them because Jon Stewart was mean to them.

    (What do you know? Both parties are the same, after all)

  223. 223.

    Bupalos

    @Omnes Omnibus: Well that’s a bit of a different conversation, but if we’re already to “the supreme court can just decide who the party is allowed to nominate” then I’d feel we’d jumped a couple steps towards Russia and Iran.

    That would be an “don’t obey in advance” issue for me. If they tried that it would become somewhat of a different election, and I’d prefer that fight.

  224. 224.

    rikyrah

    @Jackie:

     

    Asides from that nonsense…

    Why no whining from the MSM that the Orange Menace won’t go anywhere other than NewsMax or Fox?

    Why aren’t they up in arms about that?

  226. 226.

    Old School

    @Bupalos:

    I’m having a hard time figuring out this take.

    I read it as “Racists want to get rid of Kamala Harris because they are afraid she’ll become president.”

  228. 228.

    Captain C

    @Omnes Omnibus: In five months we’ll get a spate of navel-gazing articles from the MSM wondering why the MSM ignored this.  It will be someone else’s fault, according to these articles.

  234. 234.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Bupalos:  AFAICT (I could be wrong) the overwhelming majority of Biden Should Quits are Kamala Takes Overs.

     

    In the larger world, the overwhelming majority of Biden Should Quites are ratfuckers (Hi, Republicans!), chaos agents (Hi, Jon!), narcissists who think they alone understand the situation (Hi, Nate!  Hi, Steve! Hi Rob! Hi, other Jon!), bitter losers (Hi, Mark!), and schemers with the delusion that they will be the replacement selection (Hi, Adam!  Hi, Michael!).  Virtually all of them are terrified of MVP Harris moving into the White House and some of them are even honest about it.

  236. 236.

    cain

    @Belafon: Is comment really necessary? I wish you all would stop commenting on people who think Joe needs to step aside. I know it is triggering, but Kay and others do not control the Democratic party.

    If we think they are freaking out we need as the base to assure them. Those poll numbers though could be down because the media started a anti-Biden blitz.

  237. 237.

    zhena gogolia

    We’re having friends for dinner and I came up with a game plan. I’m not bringing it up. If anyone does, I have told my husband in no uncertain terms that he needs to give the answers he’s been giving me all this time. He’s the strong, silent type, so people listen to him when he speaks, because he hardly ever does. It’s the only hope for my sanity.

  239. 239.

    JWR

    @jimmiraybob:

    Oy. The polls have always been so right about everything, especially, the “Red Wave.” That goes for media too “Dewey defeats Truman.”

    This is why I really don’t like that cable polling guy Carnacki(sp) who I see on network TV. He’s entertaining, I guess, but he’s also annoying as Hell, mainly because he’s so insistent that any polling done right now is How Americans Really Feel, honestly and truly. Same with Amy Walter. Sure, sometimes she’s right, but other times, she’s not.

    Also, yes to everything else you wrote.

  241. 241.

    Bupalos

    @The Thin Black Duke: I don’t know which age gen z is, I can tell you pretty much all the girls at the senior softball sendoff yesterday, who shocked me by passing around agenda 25 on their phone, seemed to think it’s ridiculous that Biden is the candidate.

    They also don’t seem to understand the idea of “incumbency” or much about how things actually work.

  242. 242.

    jowriter

    @Omnes Omnibus: It takes guts to run in NYC against a long-time Democratic congressperson, and she has them, and proved her mettle in a miserable, misogynist and ugly environment.  I will continue to follow her career path.  The woman is going places. Let’s get a trifecta and keep this effort going.

  246. 246.

    Cacti

    @matt: Red state Dems who declare themselves “the base” while failing to deliver a single electoral vote in any election cycle can fuck right off with the “we’re the real Democrats” bollocks.

  248. 248.

    Eolirin

    @cain: They’re absolutely down because the media started an anti-biden blitz.

    That’s how polling works, especially this far out.

  249. 249.

    Bobby Thomson

    @Omnes Omnibus:   Russian trolls are ALL OVER social media with a lot of “we.”  Many are so new they didn’t have a chance to develop a record of pretenting to be actual Democrats.

  250. 250.

    Bupalos

    @Old School: Maybe I’m not reading it right. It’s come up in several iterations, one is “Biden is too old because Kamala is too black.” It makes sense in general election analysis, but doesn’t make any sense to me deployed in response to the party dumping Biden when the presumption seems to be for Harris.

  252. 252.

    Bobby Thomson

    @The Thin Black Duke: And the Democrats will do nothing to stop them because they take direction from uninformed idiots like  hasbeen, also ran, failed TV host and successful racist Jon Stewart.

     

     

    Fixed

    Seriously, though.  You want to lose Black voters for at least a generation?  Force the administration out.

  253. 253.

    Eolirin

    @Bupalos: I think if we lose this election it won’t really matter what groups we might or might not lose, because voting won’t matter anymore.

  255. 255.

    Steve in the ATL

    @The Thin Black Duke: ​
     

    Here’s a prediction (and take it for what it’s worth):

    If the Democrats punk out and stab Biden in the back

    Here’s a prediction (and take it for what it’s worth):

    The Democrats won’t punk out and stab Biden in the back. He is and will remain our candidate, and he will most likely win. Again.

  256. 256.

    EZSmirkzz

    Like most of you, I suppose, I’ve been at this a long time now. ( I voted for McGovern in my first election, (JSYK)

    First off those of you wishing for a more liberal, progressive candidate forget about it. That takes years of ground work which hasn’t been done, and has in fact been actively opposed since the big dog and DLC moved the party further right after Mondale, which is a nice way of saying accommodated the Rockefeller Republicans that had no where else to go.

    The same thing goes for foreign policy. Israeli blank checks will continue to be written so long as a majority of the public thinks they are the same people as the Biblical Israelites. When that happens we can discuss who the Samaritan people really are.

    As for those who believe in Christian Nationalism, one should point out it is a contradiction of terms. Christ was a universalist, Paul was a universalist, and so were most of the Christian Hebrews in the first century. They called Christ a king for a reason, and not a Republican for many others. America was never a Christian nation and except for a far and few between people devoid of any such inclinations and tender mercies, as per the modern Republican party, who send us their thoughts and prayers whenever Christian love fails to stop the carnage of every group of people they come into contact with.

    The choice before us is simple, Sleepy Joe or Creepy Don.

    The national media is run by and for the corporate interests of Manhattan Island and anything they say and run with is with those interests in mind. Joe Biden does not toe their line, and Donald Trump washes their feet with his tears.  Democratic Party leaders need to pull their heads out of their asses, the point of marginalizing the netroots was so they could be in charge again with the media picking and choosing who the candidates are, and what issues are important to the rest of us uneducated lay people.

    Them and their horses.

    The lesser of two evils, this time, is really just that. Thoughts and prayers won’t help.    Call your reps and Senators and tell up to lead, follow or get the hell out of the way. This is bullshit. If they aren’t helping they’re hurting. They need to STFU.

    Also too, peace.

  257. 257.

    Soprano2

    @$8 blue check mistermix:  It gets to the core of what’s bugging me about this — the Dems running to microphones (like Bennett and Schiff) don’t have any wood behind the arrow.  They haven’t put together enough of a majority to persuade Biden to quit, yet every. fucking. day. they’re getting their little TV hit.

    THIS. If they don’t have an actual plan, why are they feeding the fucking fire??????!!!!!! Do they like this situation? What the fuck is wrong with them? All of this should be done behind the scenes in private, not on CNN and MSNBC.

  258. 258.

    StringOnAStick

    I heard a comment by John Fugelsang this week that makes all this endless yammering just about as clearly stupid as it can be: remember that tRump teased that he’d announce his VP pick “maybe at the debate”?  He didn’t but everyone was so far off on the OMG JOs is Old, Dump Him NOW train that this wasn’t brought up again.  Fugelsang’s point is that the tRump campaign is not going to announce it’s VP pick until the last minute, because it will be based on what happens with the Dump Joe campaign, so why are all you people helping tRump’s campaign?

    I’ve been close to dumping this blog as the endless time sink it is, and I think I might be there.  If half of the people here going over and over this were writing postcards or doing any fucking thing other than commenting here, we just might have a chance of winning this election.  I’m done, see ya in the camps.

  259. 259.

    tobie

    @The Thin Black Duke: I’m not in a position to know what GenZ thinks but your insight interests me. Loyalty doesn’t have to mean devotion to someone/something unconditionally. That’s a recipe for disaster in life and politics. But you expect a commitment to some things even in tough times. Will the party have my back when the chips are down? I don’t know. Who even speaks for the party at this point? You’d think POTUS but he’s the one being attacked. How can he negotiate for a peace deal in the Middle East or for Ukraine at the NATO summit when his entire candidacy is up for grabs?

  260. 260.

    stacib

    @Omnes Omnibus: I am sitting here right now getting madder and madder.  I’ll qualify my comment with saying I’ve been behind Biden since the beginning – hell, I wanted him to run in 2016 (and I understood why he couldn’t).  I’ll also say that I didn’t like Kamala Harris as a candidate, and I would be super pissed if I am forced to vote for her by folks like Kay.  Somehow, they get to change their choice damn near at the end of the election cycle over one fuckin’ bad debate performance, and I’m supposed to trust THEM as allies.  Fuck that noise.  There are 50 ways for Kamala Harris to lose, not even starting with all the ratfucking from the state Republican parties.  Holy fuck, I can’t believe we’re still talking about this.

  262. 262.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    Respectfully, IMO you think Harris is a bigger risk than she is because you’re undercounting the risk with Biden.

    It isn’t true that the polls were wrong in 2022.
    Polls were  dead on in the Ohio abortion referendum
    2020 polls didn’t underestimate Biden, they underestimated Trump

    We are creating this whole made up set of facts. George Clooney and  Bennett and the House members do not want to kneecap Biden and lose. That’s ridiculous. Clooney gave tens of thousands of dollars to Democrats and then said “ I will now sabatoge them”?

    If (when) the next Senator comes out is he/she banished too?

  263. 263.

    Old School

    @Bupalos:

    Maybe I’m not reading it right. … It makes sense in general election analysis, but doesn’t make any sense to me deployed in response to the party dumping Biden when the presumption seems to be for Harris.

    You’re not reading it right.  The tweet doesn’t mention Biden.

    I’d have more respect for them if they just admit they don’t want Kamala Harris to be VP because they believe it means a Black woman will be potus in 2024 or 2028, before a white woman will be potus.

  264. 264.

    Bupalos

    OK despite my history on this, I’m really not understanding what folks didn’t understand about AOC’s “the matter is closed” thing. Even if you don’t like this decision, even if you think it could change, I think it’s an extremely bad idea to be public with that right now.  It always was a bad idea but right now it’s terrible. WTF with Pelosi being like “he’ll have to decide…” HE JUST THREATENED TO NUKE YOU WHILE SHOUTING THAT HE DECIDED DID YOU FORGET?!

  266. 266.

    cain

    @Soprano2:

    The problem is that there is no prep time – Democrats fall in love with their candidate. But there isnt enough time here for Demorats to fall in love with Kamala.

    Keeping Joe Biden even if there are concerns – but also realize that at some point the polls will normalize again I think once we stopped talking about it.

    What these people need to do is stop showing up on shows and keep bringing this up so we can do a more proper assessment.

  267. 267.

    Bupalos

    @Old School: It doesn’t directly mention him, but the only way that works is if Biden wins the election with Harris as his VP and then resigns… though “in 2024” just doesn’t make sense in any event.

  270. 270.

    jimmiraybob

    @JWR: I can take Kornacki (MSNBC) on election nights but at this point I change the channel.  Every time he gets up to bat there should be a prominent warning that everything you are about to hear/heard is high-speculation on dubious polls that are too far out in front of the election to be reliable.

    Now if they start polling people on whether we should 1) stay a liberal, multi ethnic, equity-based democracy, or 2) go with an authoritarian, one-state Trumpocracy, and report results from now till November, I might get interested again.

  273. 273.

    Soprano2

    @The Thin Black Duke: I also think at this point that if the Democratic nominee loses the election (regardless of who it is) the chaos that follows will make what’s happened since the debate look tame. Everyone who wanted someone other than whoever the candidate is (I think it’ll be Biden) will howl at everyone on the other side that if only you had listened to us we would have won, which of course is completely unprovable. It’ll make the disarray TCFG caused among Republicans look small by comparison.

  275. 275.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @tobie: I think Gen Z is seeing the Democrats like the guy who says he’s your friend when you’re buying the drinks but never shows up when you’ve been evicted all of a sudden and you need help loading the truck.

  276. 276.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Bupalos: I think you have misread what rikyrah posted.

    I also think that folks like rikyrah and the Thin Black Duke know what they’re talking about. I would–and do–heed them.

  278. 278.

    Bupalos

    @Soprano2: Yeah I hope not, but I can smell that too.

    It’s actually one of the reasons I chime in with my “doomer” opinion that we always were likely to lose this election at the presidential level and are still going to be more likely than not to lose it whether the party stays pat or moves on. We’re also likely to hold at least one house and then kick the shit out of them in 2026, and America is unlikely to just bow to the Trumpist agenda when it is profoundly unpopular and his administration is going likely to be a dumpster fire, not a team of supervillains.

  279. 279.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Bupalos: Speak for yourself. I am supporting the Democratic ticket as it stands. I see no reason to change it.  If circumstances make it necessary to change it, I will support the Democratic ticket.   Everything else is sheer wankery. Fin.

  280. 280.

    schrodingers_cat

    @stacib: I like Kamala Harris a lot. And I would love her to be our nominee. But not like this. If she has any hope of winning the general election she needs to be elected as a nominee via the primaries. In 2028.

    CBC, KHive and other KH supporters know this and that’s why they are supporting Biden-Harris ticket. And are not in a rush to push him out. I don’t trust the new uber leftie  supporters of KH

    And not just Kamala Harris any anointed nominee will face an uphill battle. We need to stick with our nominee. Everything else is noise.

  281. 281.

    Mike E

    @stacib: I’d gladly vote for MVP but this racist ass nation won’t elect her so, it’s a moot point (sadly)… I will actually vote for her on the Biden/Harris ticket this fall. Everything else is vexatious noise.

  282. 282.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: You might be right, there’s really no way to test it. What I do know is that a female candidate and a candidate of color still start out at a disadvantage vs. a white candidate, and that’s been shown with real election data

    I’m out of here, I’ve got work to do and at this point it’s an exercise in futility to keep talking about it. We’re all terrified of the same thing but can’t agree on how to stop it from happening. I wish we’d had this conversation two years ago!

  283. 283.

    Jackie

    @rikyrah:

    Why no whining from the MSM that the Orange Menace won’t go anywhere other than NewsMax or Fox?

    Maybe he hasn’t been invited? TCFG SHOULD call in to CNN and MSNBC and see how he’s received. If RW Media can’t control the discussion…🤷🏼‍♀️

  286. 286.

    Gwangung

    @Bupalos: definitely agreed. And that makes the entire public freak out a matter of Democratic lack of discipline and wishywashiness. That turns voters off no matter what.

  288. 288.

    MinuteMan

    Also, Nancy Pelosi isn’t helping by saying that “the president needs to make a decision” when he clearly announced his decision two days ago.

    Translation: The President needs to decide things my way otherwise it’s not a decision by my definition.

    Is she losing it or just going in for passive aggression in a big and public way.

  289. 289.

    theturtlemoves

    It’s long past time for Obama to start making some phone calls to his former staffers, including Axelrod and Crypt Keeper Carville and asking them to kindly shut the fuck up.

  290. 290.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Bupalos: Wait, you are arguing from the position that we are probably going to lose the presidency anyway so we may as well just fuck around?  Dear god.

  291. 291.

    Mike E

    @tobie: yep, everybody should look in a mirror. Not the argument to have right now over impending face stomping fascism though, so eyes on the prize (if you aren’t trolling)

  292. 292.

    pajaro

    @eclare:

    I’m for keeping Biden, but it’s not too late to switch to Harris.  Ballots haven’t been printed yet, in part because neither party has nominated a candidate.  The Republicans are going to nominate Trump next week.  The Democratic Convention is in August, which was when the formal vote by the delegates would take place.  There was an issue with Ohio’s date by which nominees needed to be submitted, but they changed the date so that if the Dems want, they can nominate in August.

    The funding for the campaign can go to Harris, if she’s nominated, and, if she was Biden’s choice, presumably the infrastructure and ad buys could as well.  Any other choice would present real logistical challenges, I agree.  So any Dem who is asking Biden to step down needs to be asked whether they would support Harris and think Harris will do better (as Kay has argued).

  293. 293.

    O. Felix Culpa

    I really gotta study my Portuguese irregular verbs, but one more non-original screed, because why not.

    Apart from the fact that forcing Biden out would disenfranchise 14 million primary voters, do we really want to hand the FTFNYT and other media a scalp? Especially the scalp of the President of the United States? Do you really think that will stop their attacks on Democratic candidates?  That it will slake their blood lust? Especially if the only other viable candidate is a Black Woman?

    If you think that, I have a fine bridge to sell you. All the POC on this site, on Black Twitter, and elsewhere keep sounding the same alarm: Harris is qualifed, yes, and She.Would.Lose. That’s a judgement on our country, not on her.

  294. 294.

    Bupalos

    @schrodingers_cat: There could be a lot of things happening behind the scenes that we can’t see. One of them may be Harris declining to run this way in this environment, for any number of reasons.

    If that is true, a lot of the calculus would change for a lot of people, and we really can have no idea.

  296. 296.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @pajaro: Good god, it has nothing to do with printing ballots, and everything to do with the various states’ regulations about when candidates have to be certified to be put on the ballot. The GOP is already prepared to take any candidate changes to court. The battle would likely go to the Extreme Court, and one guess as to how they’ll rule. We could end up with no Democratic presidential candidate on some ballots. That’ll ensure a win. /s

  298. 298.

    stinger

    @Jackie: Thanks for posting that!  Trump seems to think that NATO membership is like Mar-a-Lago membership. Members “pay”, and in return, in the case of MaL, they get to play golf; in the case of NATO, they get U.S. protection against being attacked by Russia. In both cases, the money goes into Trump’s pocket.

    Would we really put this guy in charge again?

  299. 299.

    Bupalos

    @Omnes Omnibus: No not at all. When the Guardians go down 3 in the 7th, they are more likely to lose than not (even though they are awesome.) It’s not “fucking around” when they do things to maximize the changes they have even when they have no option that raises that chance above 40%. AND it’s not as clean as a baseball game, but even in baseball there’s still the question of how your pen and starter setup for the rest of the series. (Downballot, 2026, 2028).

    Other folks reject that the world will still be here on the 5th of November if Trump is elected.

  302. 302.

    hrprogressive

    @Tazj: ​
     

    I mean, I watched with my own eyes, and heard with my own ears, her stammer out a non-answer that did nothing to support the President of her own party.

    She can say whatever she wants to walk it back.

    She said what she said, and didn’t say what she didn’t say.

  305. 305.

    Eyeroller

    @MinuteMan: Since I got punked myself, I’m going to repeat that the FTFNYT misquoted Nancy, no doubt deliberately.  Nancy’s actual statement was an endorsement.

  311. 311.

    topclimber

    @Kay: I do not want to banish any Dems except those who act in bad faith.

    A hypothetical example, which also may be totally false: Bennett goes on TV to distance himself from Biden but doesn’t give the White House a heads up.

    Everyone else is just dealing with the fear and loathing as best they can.

    My take is that I want the best President of my lifetime to be President just as long as he can. I trust him to let us know when that is no longer the case. When it happens, we’ve got the backup in Harris.

  312. 312.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Rod nails it about White “Allies” who talk about listening to Black People but at the most important moment possible just can’t bring themselves to actually do it. It’s a really bad look and everyone will remember it.

    Allies who are really about that life of listening to our base and standing in solidarity with them, are already in formation to stand with our President.

  313. 313.

    Eolirin

    @O. Felix Culpa: I think the correct thing to do right now is to start savagely attacking the media to be completely honest.

    Pelosi’s idk why the times has decided to start making stuff up barb is how everyone should be responding. They’ve gotten way over their skis now too. Lots of very bad reporting that’s fairly easy to debunk. Anything real is now part of a bunch of stuff that’s utter nonsense and can’t be separated from it.

  314. 314.

    Ruckus

    @sab:

    As a 75 yr old white man I totally agree with you. On all your points.

    In the 2020 primary where Harris ran for president, I voted for her. I thought then and still very much do that she would be a good-great president. And having been VP for 8 years will make her an even better one. This country has been, on the whole, racist for much of my life. Not in any way totally racist but strongly racist in many parts. It is getting better. But humanity takes a long time to learn, and fix it’s issues. A lot of that is that we humans are not all alike, in so many ways. I’ve lived in 4 far different parts of this country, both in northern and southern CA, in the old south on the coast, and in the middle. I’ve also traveled to most of the states (46) when I worked in professional sports. All those places filled with humans, but in many ways they can be far different than one might imagine.

  315. 315.

    206inKY

    @Kay: Yup. Clooney has outed the entire Democratic Party leadership as agreeing: Pelosi, Schumer, Jeffries, Murray, Clark, Clyburn, Durbin, etc, and all the top governors.

    “This isn’t only my opinion; this is the opinion of every senator and congress member and governor that I’ve spoken with in private. Every single one, irrespective of what he or she is saying publicly.”

    He’s at the very highest rung of the fundraising ladder, having just hosted the most lucrative donor event in Democratic history. There’s zero chance leadership didn’t take his calls. They might be salty at him now for going public, but judging by Pelosi’s comments today, it doesn’t appear he’s lying through his teeth.

    We need to start forcefully making the case for Harris.

    When you’re about to drive off a cliff, you turn the damn wheel.

  316. 316.

    Eyeroller

    @206inKY: I’m sure they are very happy for him to violate their confidential discussions.  Burn those sources!

    Why should I believe  him?

  317. 317.

    Old School

    @206inKY:

    When you’re about to drive off a cliff, you turn the damn wheel.

    So what was your opinion on Biden’s NATO speech yesterday?

  319. 319.

    Eyeroller

    @Old School: Probably didn’t count because he used a teleprompter.  Never mind that Trump can’t even do that reliably.

    And I made a mistake and fed the troll, so I’ll stop now.

    Edit: Clooney also has a personal beef against Biden related to his wife’s ICC activities.

  320. 320.

    spc123

    @$8 blue check mistermix: Ticket splitting is more than possible – and I’m sure there more voters than we would like to admit that are unaware of the supremacy clause or that this court’s interpretation of it would be exceptionally broad and final at least in the context of reproductive rights.

  321. 321.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @tobie: Just that – the notion that loyalty should have proper limits – is in question today, and it’s crazy.

    If you serve the President, nominally, you should be serving the Constitution, and the law. Maybe you’re not a *cop*, but you don’t watch lawbreaking occur and say “meh,” and walk away.

    Are there times when the President might break the law? Sure, on issues that serve the people, like national security. But “before we send you money that we *have* to send you, I want you to do us a favor…” and there was only one whistleblower, with the investigation quashed by Barr on truly intelligence-insulting grounds.

    Seriously: it’s like, if the room was full of nurses, and they saw you smack your child, they’d all have to file a report, not a *criminal* report, mind you, but one that could open an investigation. If each nurse didn’t file that report, they’d be risking their licensure.

    But how many people knew about that call, and only one single person raised concerns, and “loyalty” caused people to try to hide such serious wrongdoing.

    Don’t worry, though: the Republican Senate buried it with a show trial, saying that they have *no* Constitutional obligation to investigate a President of their own party – only the *Democrat* congresscritters had such a constitutional duty.

  323. 323.

    206inKY

    @Old School: I thought his speech was good and am hoping tomorrow’s press conference is a success—it’s the only kind of thing that can end this decisively in Biden’s favor. Run off a string of strong, relaxed, cogent performances in unscripted settings and he’ll be the very definition of a comeback story, utterly vindicated.

  324. 324.

    Ruckus

    Another point I see in this next election.

    Convicted felon shitforbrains will be running and seems to be in the lead on his side of the aisle.

    So, it’s either Biden, Harris or shitforbrains. Those are the possible choices. I trust either of the democratic possibilities and will vote for whichever is at the top of the ballot.

    But here is another thought, a Biden/Harris run. In every way under the sun that would be a better team than shitforbrains and whatever moron he choses as VP. And if, anyone’s god is making that decision, and Biden cannot finish his 4 years, we get Harris.

    Hey it may not be the best thought process but in the overall look at the situation a Biden/Harris second term would be so damn far ahead of shitforbrains that it is unmeasurable. Harris would still be there to run 2 terms IF Biden makes 2 yrs or more, the country would be a bazillion times better off than one more DAY second with shitforbrains within a million miles of whatever his concept of president is.

  325. 325.

    Archon

    If they force out Biden against the will of most Democrats and we win? Great! Forcing out Biden and lose, especially with someone other than Harris? Thats an unforgivable betrayal and there would hell to pay for those public officials who supported that idea.

  328. 328.

    satby

    @Old School: thank you!

    I know how mean it was of me to point that out two threads below, but that’s what it is.

    People on the losing end of an argument, two of them lawyers presumably trained in arguing successfully in adversarial contexts, are whining about groupthink and how cultist it is that other people with the same information came to different conclusions.  We did. Deal.

  329. 329.

    MinuteMan

    @Ruckus:
     

    In the 2020 primary where Harris ran for president, I voted for her.

    I thought that Harris ended her campaign in December 2019 which was before there was any voting.

  332. 332.

    Chris Johnson

    @Kay: Dude, what the heck is wrong with you? I had my chance. I voted in a primary even though it wasn’t that big of a deal. It had options to select. I voted Biden/Harris, enthusiastically.

    I’m a white man in Vermont. What the hell is the matter with you? Now you want to take my vote away too?

  333. 333.

    gvg

    @Kay: If Biden is not the top of the ticket, even if it is voluntary, I think we will most likely lose.

    I won’t stop fighting if that happens, but him stepping down or being forced out is NOT the best bet. Even if he dies and Kamala has to step in, this will not go well.

    I like and trust her, but I do not think enough others do to get us a win. This is a judgement of my fellow voters not her. Its racism and misogyny still. I also do not think she will win in 2028. That could still change, after 4 years more of impressions though. But tossing her now, will rightly anger a part of our coalition with no time left to heal or compromise. The democrats who are uncomfortable with her don’t have the self-awareness to all face their own hidden prejudices’ and overcome them right now all at once. They will have excuses and we can’t psychoanalyze and cure millions of unwilling voters in 5 months. Thats why Biden the kindly old white guy won when Hillary couldn’t, and neither could more combative seeming men.

    I really resent that so many people feel this way, but I need us to win. It needs to be Joe.

  334. 334.

    Bupalos

    @Quinerly: I think there are some. The worrisome group would be older white folks in the midwest and Arizona I think. Remember Biden’s entire later career resurrection was to tap that support for Obama.

    There are surely folks that would be joining too though, I think especially some young folks that a lot of people here do not understand how opaque and weird and immovable politics looks to them, with almost the entire leadership of the only sane party being (demographically speaking) freakishly old. “They don’t care because they’re just going to die” is something people here say on the regular and I assure you it’s something a lot of people believe about the crowd that is making decisions for them. Also folks who are just disengaged might feel they have to engage just from the noise.

    I have no idea how the math stacks up, no one does, but as a stand alone, I’d shake this race up, because I think Biden already took his best chance to do that and lit it on fire. And from here on out it may just be trying not to light another one.

  335. 335.

    Ruckus

    @MinuteMan:

    In the primary, not in the election.

    At least my rather old, old fart memory says I did……

    Do remember that she was a senator from CA so it may have been the CA state election where I voted for her. And anyone that voted for Joe Biden also voted for Kamala Harris as VP. So yes, I have voted for her. And would do so again.

  336. 336.

    gvg

    @schrodingers_cat: Sorry. I don’t even know what his age is. People age differently and that is what I have thought the last several times I have seen Bill on TV.  He has lost a lot of weight and looks frail. There have been several health scares. Biden on the other had is bicycling and comes from a long-lived family. My own family health is not comparable.

    So, IF I am right about Bill, Then its not a good idea to bring him out for this crisis. But I do not truely know. The Clintons have been rather private the last few years (good for them)

  337. 337.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    I had to leave for awhile.  I’ve been through too many rounds here of being insulted and treated condescendingly because I have a different view.  It is really upsetting especially when I’m told why I think the way I do and none of the reasons actually apply.  I don’t resort to insulting commenters when I disagree.

    Anyway,  I tried to canvass Saturday but it was cut short because of a shelter in place order (they found the disturbed gunman dead today) and I wasn’t able to go to my voter registration event on Friday because it would have been too many hours away from my mom.  I did speak with the volunteer coordinator, though, and it turns out that not all POC are on twitter and represented by those views.  She works with asylum seekers – immigrants from mostly African countries and they are pretty scared right now.

  340. 340.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    Just a quick drop by this Biden voter to give the Tonya Harding Democrats who are kneecapping him out there a hearty FUCK YOU! I figured out that what you assholes are looking for is your own Trump from the left to rally around. You don’t want Biden and never did, nor do you care for Kamala as all you pay her is lip service.

    No, you want your own perfect Mr. Perfect Whiteguy to step in even though you have no idea who he is and you are willing to wreck Biden’s chances by driving down his support and dispiriting his supporters just to prove that you were right about replacing him if he loses.

    Fuck you all and I only wish the worst for you. Fucking weak-kneed whiners, no guts and no fight in you.

  341. 341.

    206inKY

    @gvg: I think the fears of Harris on grounds of race and gender are a generational projection that fails to account for the attitudes of young voters, who came of age with Obama as president.

    The starkest drop in polls between 2020 and 2024 has been among young people who are decidedly not represented in the BJ commentariat. Harris is exactly the sort of candidate who can awaken campus GOTV efforts like the Obama for America days, especially if Harris picks another woman like Whitmer as VP and goes pedal to the metal on Dobbs.

    Also, recent history has plenty of examples of women at the highest levels of democracies: Germany, France, UK, Italy, Finland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, etc. The US is an anomaly in its unbroken line of male presidents continuing this far into the 21st century, especially in the era of Dobbs. Like the overcorrection to McGovern by viewing peace as an issue for losers, I think we are overcorrecting after the trauma of Clinton’s loss. I see echoes of this wrt race in 2008: a lot of cautious and experienced folks were real skeptical of Obama until he proved he could win over whites in Iowa.

  342. 342.

    MomSense

    @Layer8Problem:

    Thanks.  I was really upset.

    On background, I was a Harris then Biden then Biden Harris supporter in 2020.  I never supported Warren or Sanders.  At the beginning of the 2020 primary season Klobuchar was my second choice.  I haven’t read the FTFNYT in two decades and I didn’t watch any post debate coverage, listen to Pod Save America, and hadn’t watched much MSNBC for years except for an occasional O’Donnell.  We had to stop watching any news at all because it is too upsetting for my mom.  We are on a heavy diet of Matlock and Murder She Wrote here.

    I think the reality is we are off the map in this election.  The old rules and conventional wisdom don’t apply.  I pray we can do what the left managed to achieve in France.  If there is lemonade to be made out of all of these lemons, I think a prosecutor is the ideal person to make the case against Trump on behalf of the people.  I think it’s our best hope.  I may be wrong just like everyone else on this almost top 10,000 blog.

  343. 343.

    Layer8Problem

    @MomSense:  I understand.  You have been here too long for the rest of us not to give you some space.  It’s an argumentative site, and I’m glad for that since nobody with an ounce of sense wants an echo chamber confirming our biases.

  344. 344.

    Dr. Fungus

    Senator Craven’s number disconnected the first attempt, and rolled me into voicemail the second. (Good sign?)

    Left the following message:
    I am disgusted and sickened by the Senator’s cowardly comments on CNN about President Biden.

    It’s fine to have concerns, but the proper way to convey them is in private. Airing them on cable news only helps Trump.

    President Biden was chosen by thousands of Coloradans in a multi-month primary. He is our candidate.

    Unless and until he chooses to step down, the only response Bennet should have is pivoting to Biden’s traitorous, felonious, child-molesting rapist opponent. I am shocked that a professional politician cannot understand that.

    I’ve lived in CO most of my life, and voted for the Senator each time he was on the ballot. After this episode, I cannot do so again. If Senator Bennet will not have our President’s back, I will not have his.

  345. 345.

    schrodingers_cat

    A heartiest fuck you to anyone who wants to disenfranchise me and invalidate my vote for their vibes

    If you are doing so because you are afraid how other people will react, grow a fucking backbone.

  347. 347.

    MomSense

    @Layer8Problem:

    I actually think people here are scared, understandably, and do want safe spaces.  That’s why I’ll step back again.  My mom was a news junkie until the debate.  No news since.

  348. 348.

    MomSense

    @schrodingers_cat:

    A primary vote is different from your vote in an election.  Votes are tabulated in order to award delegates.  Those delegates are pledged to the candidate based on the number of votes received.  If the candidate releases those delegates, that is within the rules.  I get what you are saying but primary votes in a party nomination process are a little different from election votes.

  349. 349.

    Archon

    @206inKY:

    I truly hope your right but the idea that dumping Biden and putting Harris on the ticket is going to cause some electoral sea change with voters (young or old) sounds absolutely delusional to me.

  350. 350.

    Archon

    @MomSense: Telling voters their primary vote is “different” so you can’t feel disenfranchised that we made the switch isn’t exactly an inspiring pitch 4 months before an election.

  351. 351.

    UncleEbeneezer

    L. Joy Williams (political strategist, President of Brooklyn NAACP, host of Sunday Civics podcast):

    Why are these Dems distancing themselves from a successful administration?

    We have to win the White House AND elect a Congress that intends to work for the American people and not stall progress.

    Instead of calling for Biden to step down y’all need to step up and defend the successes of this administration and give people something to vote for, not just something to vote against.

    Re-Elect Biden/Harris and win majority in Congress so they can – Pass a new Voting Rights Act – Pass immigration legislation – Continue to grow the economy – Appoint new judges

    Sure Trump has a base of voters but he has a ceiling in the number of voters he can persuade to vote for him this time around.

    Democrats on the other have a much larger base that we can turn out and a larger share of persuadable voters. We win with turn out.

    We get turnout with everyone in the streets working. Not by invalidating the votes of democratic primary voters and calling for some random ass candidate that you can’t even name to replace Biden.

    If the 81 year old President has committed to be in the streets fighting for every last vote. Why the hell can’t you?

  352. 352.

    MomSense

    @Archon:

    Nope, nothing inspiring about this year and I feel incredibly let down by the Biden campaign.  I was also a Biden voter in the primary.  Turnout was really low.

  353. 353.

    Ruckus

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Bill Clinton is showing his age, not badly but as someone only 3 yrs younger than him, if we stood next to each other I would look a lot younger than he does. Look at his Wikipedia page and there is a picture of Joe Biden and Bill taken in 2023 and he looks older than Biden to me. I think he looks a lot older than me. But then people always underestimate my age.

    We all age differently, I’ve known people a lot older than me that do not look their age, I’ve know some younger than me that look a lot older. I live in a seniors apartment complex in which a person has to be 55 to rent here and the oldest person I know is 98. Her memory is not all that bad, she remembers a fair amount of her history, but as with many rather old people, new stuff can be harder to remember. From his looks Bill Clinton looks older than I am and to me, the same or older than Joe Biden, who is 3 yrs older than him. It’s a perception based upon a number of things, and I think one of them is a person’s perception based upon the age of many people they know.

  355. 355.

    Ksmiami

    @MomSense: nothing inspiring about the best economy in the world? Nothing inspiring about keeping the fascists out? Nothing inspiring about remaining a nation open to immigration? And women’s rights?

  356. 356.

    Ruckus

    @Jackie:

    That is very rich, shitforbrains calling Joe Biden out when most everything he blames Joe for, he made worse, by his inaction or his responses to pretty much anything. I don’t know if he was ever thought of as an actual idiot, but if he keeps opening his yap, that concept of him is going to easily become pure idiot or very delusional, rapidly aging old fart. Because that is what is happening in front of our eyes and ears.

    As I’ve said above I know a lot of people a fair number of years older than me or Joe Biden and they think and talk just fine. shitforbrains has never, not once in his life, talked or done anything just fine.

  358. 358.

    MomSense

    @Ksmiami:

    Unfortunately his record is not known or understood by the general public.  In the before debate times we all were shocked at how divorced from reality the public is.  There were threads here where we were all reacting to an upside down world when it came to public opinion on the economy, unemployment, abortion etc.  I have tried in my circles to get the facts out and I expect to do more of that with canvassing and phone banking.
    I went out canvassing Saturday but we had to stop about 30 minutes in because a gunman caused the city to go into a shelter in place order. Phone banks haven’t started yet.

  360. 360.

    Ruckus

    @$8 blue check mistermix:

    We all have our likes, dislikes and points of view. Nancy Pelosi is 3 yrs older than President Biden, has been in politics for a long time and very likely has at least a somewhat different outlook/point of view than President Biden’s. Not likely a huge difference but quite possibly/likely not exactly the same. Men and women often come at the world from differing points, if for no other reason than we are 2 sides of the same coin, so to speak. Her upbringing, her education, her life experiences likely will not be the same as Joe Biden’s and that can change a viewpoint. Maybe not drastically but different is different. IOW I think that most any 2 humans are going to have some differences and if those 2 are female/male then that viewpoint may be quite a bit different, especially on smaller matters. We come at the world from different directions, with differing educations, different pluses and minuses, different viewpoints. We likely will not be dramatically different but different is different as I said above. And really shouldn’t we be able to have different opinions/views, regardless of who/what/when we are?

  361. 361.

    Ruckus

    @Kirk:

    misogyny in the US is stronger than racism

    Sure seems like it. But I would say we do not have to go back very far before they seemed about equal to me.

  363. 363.

    Ruckus

    @Kay:

    I am on the Harris bandwagon – But.

    I do believe that a lot of dems would vote for Harris for president, I’m an old white fart and I voted for her in the last primary. And I’d vote for her for president.

    But – because I’m an old white fart I’ve seen a lot of this country and over a rather longish time, and I’ve voted in a lot of elections, in 3 wildly differing states that I’ve lived in. (One not my choice…) And I do not believe that enough people would vote for her. Now the opposition currently is a felon, seemingly working on getting himself a bit of possible jail time, who seems to have the backing of a lot of his party. Now why anyone would vote for this moron I have no idea but in my mind if a lot of the republican side would vote for a felon who is showing signs of dementia, then we need to really have someone who can win. And I think that in 4 months we will see that Joe Biden will get more votes. Good, bad, or a totally shitty take, that’s what I see. This is still a country that has, in a lot of places, seemingly barely joined the 20th century. And I seriously doubt that will change in the next 4 months. I would like to be wrong, but I do not think I am. I have followed politics since before I could vote and at times it seems to me this country, or possibly humanity, has a tough time getting out of reverse gear. I wish that I didn’t see it this way, but paying attention has gotten me here. Right now I think the safe bet OVERALL, is the one we have to take.

  364. 364.

    Ruckus

    @TaMara:

    I like this comment.

    I was going to say I approve of this comment but that sounded just a bit pompous even while it was still in my head.

    As I’m only a bit younger than SFB and therefore not all that much younger than President Biden and I believe that many people who are a lot/bunch/bit younger than President Biden may think that everyone who gets to that age is senile and gah gah. We aren’t. I just had a visit from one of my neighbors who is 98 years young. Now she isn’t going to run for president but she also isn’t senile and gah gah. I dislike that many people at least seem to believe that old farts all go insane when their SS can start. Which is at 62 yrs young. As someone more than a tad older than 62 yrs old I’d suggest waiting as long as possible to start collecting because your benefit will be greater the longer you wait, up to 70 yrs old, especially if you continue to work. Now if you have a nice pension fund then maybe it won’t make as much difference for you.

  365. 365.

    Ruckus

    @Eolirin:

    I’ve been voting for decades, I’ve lived in 3 states and in CA both the south and north. So the west coast, the midwest and the east coast. The voting age changed to 18 the year I turned 21 and so I have only been voting a bit over half a century. To me the polling has rarely been totally accurate and in my lifetime I’ve never been polled. Now I’m just one person but at some point there maybe might have been someone who wanted to know or been interested in my political leanings. My point is that polling is rarely all that close because it costs so much to do polling that most is what is considered an average grouping and that is very difficult to know without extensive polling. Sure we know what the overall politics is of any large area but that may mean that political polling can still be a lot less accurate than many people think.

  366. 366.

    Death Panel Truck

    @Old Man Shadow: Exactly. Forcing Biden out now would create absolute chaos. It would make the Democratic Party look weak and indecisive, and would guarantee a Trump victory. What really galls me are assholes like Clooney, Rob Reiner and Jon Stewart. If Trump wins and even a quarter of Project 2025 is enacted, a lot of people will be hurt. Rich white men like them won’t be affected in the least, and that angers me.

  367. 367.

    Ruckus

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I looked up Bill Clinton on Wikipedia when his name came up and there is a 2023 picture of him and President Biden and to me (another old man) President Biden actually looks younger. I mean not a significant amount younger but to me he does look younger. And he’s 3 yrs older. Often age is a tough thing to tie down when you don’t actually know someone’s age. Many people under guess my age, no longer by a significant amount like they used to but still most guesses go under the actual by years.

  371. 371.

    NickM

    @TaMara: I was in upstate Michigan – all around Traverse City — and did not see a single Trump flag or bumper sticker in hundreds of miles of driving.  It could mean a lot of things but I was shocked — very different than other experiences in rural areas.

  372. 372.

    Tony G

    @schrodingers_cat: Well, count me as “ableist and ageist” then.  I am 68 years old and, as far as I’m concerned I am too old to do what should be the most difficult job in the world.  (A maximum presidential age of 65 would be a good idea.)  Don’t get me wrong — I voted for Biden four years ago (even though I thought he was too old then) and I will vote for Biden (or any democrat) in November, even if he is in a catatonic state by then.  But, in my opinion, there is something deeply wrong with our system offering up as candidates old men like Biden, Trump and Saint Bernie Sanders.  Pretending that that is not a problem is not helpful.  “Just my opinion, man.”.

  373. 373.

    acallidryas

    @TaMara: I was also just in a lot of very rural areas and was surprised by hardly seeing any Trump signs at all in areas that were covered in 2016-2020. Don’t know what it means — we all know yard signs don’t vote–but it was an interesting data point to me as well.

  374. 374.

    NIdahoGirl

    @TaMara: Former Nebraskan living in ruby red northern Idaho. We’re seeing the same- huge enthusiasm gap for Trump. No signs. We still had signs up in 2022 that were promoting Trump for 24. Now those are all gone. We still have “Trump Parades” where half a dozen weirdos drive around with “F* Biden” and “Trump 2024” giant flags. But in general, the tone here is REALLY subdued. They’ll still vote for him, but this is KING TRUMP country. It is kind of shocking how much they’ve lost interest. Just north of me, in even MORE conservative territory, the 4th of July Parade had half a dozen women in Handmaid’s Tale outfits with signs saying “Bring Back our Doctors”. No obstetricians in 50% of Idaho’s counties now. We’re living the conservative dream here in Idaho, and women are finding it to be a nightmare.

  375. 375.

    Tony G

    @acallidryas: This is just a guess on my part … but, to me, Donald Trump is a pop culture phenomenon as much as he is a political phenomenon — and, at this point, his act is old.  His election in 2016 was eight years ago.  That’s about a century ago in pop culture terms.  The Beatles were an exciting new band in 1964.  Eight years later they were gone, and were remembered as that band that was cool years ago.  And, of course, The Beatles had a lot to offer other than novelty.  Trump has always had nothing of content to offer.

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