Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they’re gonna use it.”

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

When we show up, we win.

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

Second rate reporter says what?

In after Baud. Damn.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

How stupid are these people?

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Wednesday Morning Open Thread: (Some) Things Fall Apart

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: (Some) Things Fall Apart

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Wednesday Morning Open Thread: (Some) Things Fall Apart

(Mike Luckovich via GoComics.com)

 
I just wanna know: Is this actually an epic, tragic Decline & Fall… or just slapstick comedy to fill a silly-season programming gap?

Hold a good thought for those suffering in Texas:


 



Old bulls lock horns…


 
Cook Polls’ latest seems iffy…


 
There is hope, maybe?…


 
In summary:

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: (Some) Things Fall Apart 1

Reader Interactions

260Comments

  1. 1.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    My letter to my senior Senator, Michael Fucking Bennet, after his comments on CNN last night:

    Dear Senator:

    Your remarks on 9 Jul 2024 during a CNN interview were very unfortunate given what’s at stake in this election.  Fear not, those remarks do get you a membership in the Tonya Harding Democrats Club.  I’m sure the young staffer seeing this won’t get the reference but hopefully they’ll forward it to you as I know you will get it.

    It’s too bad you let your inside words become outside words to a cable news audience.  Instead, you should have taken your cue from the base of the Democratic Party, Black Americans, who have been the saving grace in our recent elections instead of helping to kneecap the Party’s standard bearer.

    I voted in my first election, in Colorado, in 1980.  I’ve been a Crawl-Over-Glass Democratic voter that entire time.  Should you run for reelection, I will not extend that courtesy to you.

  4. 4.

    Soprano2

    To me what’s insane about this whole thing is it’s about one debate appearance. Biden has been doing the job capably for 3 1/2 years, and after one poor debate performance people have decided he’s no longer capable? While his opponent talks about fictional characters as if they’re real people and bloviates about sharks and electric batteries, all while promising to jail his opponents and take revenge on them if he’s elected. Historians in 50 years are going to shake their heads at the absurdity of it all

    IMHO if “leading Democrats” had been able to keep their heads about them after the debate this would have already died down. I see that Senator Bennet went on CNN last night and decided to feed the fire some more. I have no idea what these people are thinking at this point, because they’re doing their best to make Biden losing a self-fulfilling prophecy. Voters look at this and say “If even Democratic senators think he’s going to lose, why should I vote for him?” They’re engaging in political malpractice.

  5. 5.

    Bill K

    I could support Taylor Swift for president.  She’s a savvy business woman who has shown compassion and kindness.  Of course she knows how to put on a show, too.  Unfortunately I think she’s too smart to wade into politics.

  6. 6.

    Caveatimperator

    @Bill K:

    I highly doubt she’s interested in running as a candidate herself, but she’s encouraged people to vote and openly come out in support for Democratic candidates.

    Another interesting point: she is an extraordinarily rich white woman, but knows that even the rich and white parts might not protect her if a Republican dictatorship is sufficiently awful. Either that, or she just has empathy for people who aren’t as privileged as she is.

  7. 7.

    Another Scott

    The Ghost Of Wade Boggs Goes Back To College
    @ThGrsshpprUnt
    15h

    Replying to @Fritschner

    Social security is gonna get raided so we can invade Mars after the Martian government refuses to allow construction of a Trump Tower there.

    Jul 9, 2024 · 9:53 PM UTC

    Sounds legit.

    Hang in there, everyone. Eyes on the prizes.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  12. 12.

    eclare

    @Caveatimperator:

    After her Eras tour wrapped up in the US, she gave millions in bonuses to roadies, lighting and sound techs, caterers, etc.  I think she is a smart businessperson who knows it takes a team of well compensated professionals to put on a show of that magnitude.

    If only more companies realized that too.

  13. 13.

    schrodingers_cat

    I am livid at how Biden is being treated by his own party when literal Nazis are the door. If the media succeeds in the landing Biden’s scalp it won’t be the last. Is the panic caucus too stupid to realize that? Ds don’t give the media the veto power over our nominee.

  15. 15.

    WaterGirl

    @Soprano2:

    To me what’s insane about this whole thing is it’s about one debate appearance.

    There were bad actors waiting for something to pounce on to light the spark for their version of “but her emails” for Biden, whatever it might be.

    The debate gave them that, and they played on everyone’s fears and poured gasoline on the fire that they lit.

    If it hadn’t been the debate, it would have been something else.

    This was enemy action.

  17. 17.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I am livid at how Biden is being treated by his own party when literal Nazis are the door.

    Yes. Thankfully the best part of his party has his back. But receipts are being taken

    ETA: FWIW, I emailed my Senators and Congresswoman (all Dems) to support Biden. They haven’t made any negative public statements, nor have they come out in full-throated support. In this case, I’m glad they at least haven’t sandbagged him. I’ll contact them again to ask them to be more outspoken in support.

  18. 18.

    Scout211

    That’s a great chart from AP on abortion access on the ballot.  We need to pay close attention to the “pending” ones because even though those state activists have announced that they have enough signatures to qualify for the ballot, all of those signatures need to be certified.  Several commenters have posted that some of those states have already qualified for the ballot.  That has not happened yet.

    As we have seen in other states, the Republican SOS and AG can interfere in the initiative process by changing the wording or other “legal” rulings rendering the initiative invalid or weakened. If that happens, we may need to send those states some $$ to help in their lawsuits.

    Let’s keep an eye on those states that are still “pending.”

  19. 19.

    Caveatimperator

    @WaterGirl:

    One of my favorite examples is that the media more or less invented the claim that Biden was only going to serve one term. Biden never said that. The media spun it out of vague comments and rumors from sources they were not willing to name.

    If Biden had not given them a semi-credible example, they would have just lied.

  21. 21.

    Chris

    @Soprano2:

    To me what’s insane about this whole thing is it’s about one debate appearance.

    That and the fact that he’s done everything his critics asked in the two weeks since and come out absolutely fine.  Leaving them reaching for stuff that’s either incredibly generic (“he leaned on his wife coming down the stairs after the debate!”  Totally abnormal behavior for a generally healthy eighty year old!) or the completely fantastical (a White House doctor who examines the entire building, not just the President, has made many White House visits in recent months, and he’s a Parkinsons specialist!  Biden has Parkinsons!)

    I’m not saying the campaign’s “one bad night, probably because of a cold and possibly cold meds, aggravating a lifelong stutter” is the only explanation.  Or the most serious possible explanation.  But the plain fact is that at this juncture, it’s by far the most plausible explanation considering everything we’ve seen of Biden before and since.  And it’s likely to remain so as his critics dive increasingly past the realm of speculation and into the realm of straight conspiracy theory.

  22. 22.

    eclare

    @WaterGirl:

    Hey

    OT but I don’t think I’ve seen Humboldt Blue since his new kitten post.  Hopefully he’s on a news diet, but there have been some major soccer games, and he’s a huge fan.  Could you see when he last posted?  Maybe I just missed something.

  23. 23.

    bbleh

    Nothing wrong with spanking Dems who undermine things for everybody, but eyes on the prize.  That response from the campaign was brilliant, spot-on: first it makes fun of Trump, and there is no deadlier weapon in politics than mockery and laughter, and second it immediately turns the focus back to him as a lazy selfish criminal and Putin lackey, and it mentions Project 2025 for good measure.

    If every Dem used language like this in every appearance and every quote, the Republicans would be knocked flat.

  24. 24.

    WaterGirl

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I am livid at how Biden is being treated by his own party when literal Nazis are the door. If the media succeeds in the landing Biden’s scalp it won’t be the last. Ds don’t give the media the veto power over our nominee.

    Totally agree.

    Is the panic caucus too stupid to realize that?

    Time will tell.  There was legitimate panic from some long-time Democrats – oh my god, he did a terrible job, that was awful.   That was organic.

    And then there’s the panic the media stirred up.  That was enemy action.

  25. 25.

    OzarkHillbilly

    ‘I was handed to a complete stranger’: the survivors fighting to end child marriage in 37 US states – and the people who want to keep it legal

    When Michigan banned child marriage in September, raising the minimum age to 18, Kosnik and her fellow survivors watched the senate vote in the galley. They were careful to sit in a section that would be in full view of the senators they’d spent two years lobbying as they walked up to vote.

    “It was powerful,” Kosnik said. “It was the first time in my life that I felt like I had actually taken back control.”

  26. 26.

    Butch

    Didn’t “the polls” predict a resounding victory for the far right in France?  That didn’t happen, and it sums up my feeling about polls. I’m really tired of the hair on fire polling and the fact that polls are treated as news at all.

  27. 27.

    Lapassionara

    I see where they finally let Trump out in public yesterday. How did that go? Was that where the golf invite came from?

  29. 29.

    eclare

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    I just called my rep and basically said what you wrote.  I think he will stand with Joe as this is a majority minority district.  The staffer said he would forward my comments to my rep.

  31. 31.

    laura

    @schrodingers_cat: Same here. Sure feels like white makes right and it’s got my hackles up. I’ll remember just who was cavalier about my vote. Fascism’s on the ballot- you’d think that would focus People’s attention. I’m stunned and disappointed and am feeling like I’m watching a lemmings off a cliff political suicide event.

  34. 34.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @eclare: Great! I think it’s important for Democratic leadership to know where the 14 million primary voters who chose Biden stand.

  40. 40.

    Chris

    @Caveatimperator:

    Another interesting point: she is an extraordinarily rich white woman, but knows that even the rich and white parts might not protect her if a Republican dictatorship is sufficiently awful. Either that, or she just has empathy for people who aren’t as privileged as she is.

    A blogger I like used to do a series on U.S. presidents.  One of the things I enjoyed when he got to FDR is that he said the biographers he’d read all categorically rejected the narrative of “FDR used to be a privileged asshole, but being hit with polio taught him humility and made him realize what it was like to be unfortunate, and that’s where his progressive politics came from.”

    He then went on to point out that narratives like this actually fit pretty well onto Republican politicians (in the sense that whenever you see them deviate from the party line and be somewhat humane about something, it’s always something that affects them personally).  But also that our willingness to accept this kind of narrative, and to effectively assume that all people are like Republican politicians, is a real problem with us.  Making sure your fellow human beings are OK isn’t some mysterious and rare character quirk that requires an explanation like that.  It’s part of being a reasonably decent and functional human person.

  42. 42.

    Eyeroller

    @Quinerly: Is Bennett making the cable “news” tour to spread his message?

    It has been pointed out that he ran in the 2020 primary and lost handily.  Hmm.

    There is also significant overlap in the “Bidenexiters” from the House and the group who made a run at Pelosi.  What a coinkydink.

  43. 43.

    delphinium

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: Yeah, it is ridiculous how these spineless dopes have no idea of how elections actually work. Biden/Harris is the ticket people overwhelmingly voted for just a few months ago. Biden just said he is staying in and has been actively campaigning-end of story. I’d also add that clowns like this only make us look weak which benefits Putin’s playbook. Maybe he should act like less of an amnesiac attention whore and instead start talking about how horrible a second term Trump will be.

    Already contacted both my senators last week even though they haven’t wavered as well as Warner and Jeffries.

  45. 45.

    schrodingers_cat

    @laura:

    Same here. Sure feels like white makes right and it’s got my hackles up

    Definitely, true even on this blog.

    When you disagree that being a mayor of  town in Indiana makes you a good presidential candidate, your comments are characterised as sniping years after the fact. But having a panic response  to a debate that could jeopardize the election and posting several times how the ticket needs to be upended is considered  an organic response

    Its not lost on me that most of the folks freaking out are white. Peppered with a couple of Asian lawmakers.

    I am with the CBC, Jewish voters and black voters and everyone else in our coalition that doesn’t lose their cool when the going gets tough.

  47. 47.

    Eyeroller

    @Butch: Even if they’re accurate it’s still very close and plenty of time to turn it around, plus we are still quite a ways out.  It would help a lot if feckless arseholes like Bennett would shut up.

    And I am very disappointed in Andy Kim.

  49. 49.

    NotMax

    @Eyeroller

    If only we’d take a cue from the U.K.

    “If your election lasts longer than four months, consult a physician.”
    //

  51. 51.

    Geminid

    @NotMax: Trump looked like shit too, and put out some more “weird shit” as Bush would say. And he was an hour late even though it was his own property.

  53. 53.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @bbleh: I would have just said, “I’m too busy with running the govt to chase little white balls thru the grass.”

  55. 55.

    Chris

    @Caveatimperator:

    Actually, the entire thing came from one article.  Literally every article you find will link back to one Politico article from 2019 or 2020, which in turn rests on four anonymous sources.  (And if you believe that, I’ll tell you another).

    After that, the event that’s usually mentioned is Biden at one point saying that he saw himself as a “bridge” to a next generation… which is, y’know, totally not something you’d expect any old politician to say in order to reassure younger people.

  57. 57.

    Quinerly

    @Eyeroller:

    I just woke up to him saying that if Biden stays in Trump will win in a landslide and bring control of the House and Senate with him.

    I took a break from news yesterday and only listened to Biden’s welcome speech at the NATO summit. In the middle of the night, I found our VP’s campaign speech yesterday on line. Now catching up on the latest by Pelosi, Sherrod Brown (I would love to read Kay’s thoughts), Bennett, and a few others.

  60. 60.

    Eyeroller

    @Quinerly: He was spewing the same crap on CNN earlier.  No doubt why he got the invitation to MSNBC.  I have no idea what his motivation is.

  63. 63.

    oldgold

    Did anyone see Pelosi on Morning  Joe this morning?

    To my surprise she was much less than enthusiastic in her support for Biden being our nominee this fall.

  64. 64.

    Soprano2

    @WaterGirl: I think the problem is because of the Dems who panicked publicly (I want the scalps of whoever was texting their panic to reporters during the debate!). Think about how TCFG survived the pussy tape – most R’s continued to support him publicly even though that was really bad (of course, there was the assist from the leak of Democratic e-mails that the press immediately ran after). I’m sure there was a lot of private panic, but they mostly didn’t air it out in public to reporters.

  65. 65.

    Quinerly

    @Eyeroller:

    I always liked him. He always came off as thoughtful and measured. Yes, I know he lost to Biden. But, I have a very hard time believing he has an ax to grind with Biden now.

  66. 66.

    CaseyL

    Polls? They’ve been consistently wrong, but I don’t know whether past (erroneous) results are indicative of future results. I, at least, have no idea what methodologies they’re using, or their crosstabs. Online polls aren’t worth wiping your butt with; phone polls can maybe – maybe – accurately reflect the opinions of the small percentage of people who a) still have landlines; and b) either don’t have Caller ID or answer even if they don’t recognize the number.

    The problem is exacerbated when we see poll results we like, such as support for the various abortion rights amendments. Why should I trust those, but not the Presidential preference ones? And vice versa.

    Meanwhile, on the other side of the ocean, the Tories are enjoying a leadership fight.

    In some polls, Suella Braverman comes out on top of a very crowded field.

    RWers in every country are ghouls. Fortunately, they also tend to be stupid. Braverman is very popular among the pro-Brexit, anti-immigrant, raging asshole demographic.

  67. 67.

    narya

    And I emailed Durbin this morning. I saw a clip of him last night essentially waffling on Biden.

  68. 68.

    E

    My canvassing experience tracks with Florida Data Geek. No one I have talked to has said a thing about Biden leaving. They want to talk about Trump and the Supreme Court. We’ve got this, people, but every one of you has got to do some work. A good start is posting pro-Biden, positive material that proudly outs you to all your friends and family as an unapologetic Biden voter. Just do something. Support an August campaign. Get people used to voting, used to feeling positive about it. We all know we have to win this. Act like it!

  73. 73.

    Belafon

    @NotMax: The flip side is they were stuck with Conservatives at the top of the ticket for far longer than us because it’s the group at the top that mostly gets to decide when elections happen.

  74. 74.

    kindness

    The MSM demands what it thinks is it’s due, and it thinks it can control the narrative.  So it is now double and tripling down on the meme that Biden is too old and feeble.

    So….the MSM is like a teenager with questionable ego & control issues?  Yea, sadly so it seems.

  75. 75.

    schrodingers_cat

    @CaseyL: Suella makes Nikki Haley look cuddly. The minorities that float up to the top of RW parties are almost always awful

    I also checked Project 2025 provisions for immigration. They are awful as expected. Basically cementing the havoc Orange Man played with ICE and USCIS

    It will directly affect not just asylum seekers but anyone with a visa including permanent residents.

  77. 77.

    Chris

    @WaterGirl:

    Time will tell.  There was legitimate panic from some long-time Democrats – oh my god, he did a terrible job, that was awful.   That was organic.

    And then there’s the panic the media stirred up.  That was enemy action.

    I think it’s hard to discuss the latter without the former.

    The context for the debate freakout is that for the last three years the media has been blanketing the airwaves with one single message where the President’s concerned – “Biden is old” – and for even longer than that, has been beating the drum of “Biden retires after just one term.”

    That means that when debate night hit, everybody panicking already had a ready-set explanation for what they say – “Biden’s senile” – and a ready-set solution to the problem – “Biden should step down.”

    Without those previous three to five years of media blitzing preparing the terrain, would there still have been a completely organic freakout over the debate?  Yes.  Would it have been worse than the one after, say, Obama’s first debate?  Probably.  Would we have seen this intense and this organized a stampede leading towards the single outcome of “Democrats need to dump their candidate and descend into complete chaos despite all the many reasons that’s transparently a bad idea?”  No.

  78. 78.

    Soprano2

    @Eyeroller: I think they’re probably seeing some polling showing that House and Senate candidates have also had a drop in their numbers, and they’re reacting to that. IMHO they’re reacting badly, but that’s what they’re reacting to. What I think they don’t understand is that voters aren’t reacting that way because Biden had a bad debate performance, but because they’ve seen some Democrats throwing their presidential candidate under the bus. Voters want politicians to be strong and resolute in what they believe, not weak and waffling, and too many Dems have shown their weak and waffling sides this week. At least that’s what I think people are reacting to.

    Unlike many here, I don’t necessarily discount the polls, but I also think they can be temporary. It all depends on how Democratic politicians react. If they support their nominee and put out the message about how bad TCFG and Republicans would be for this country, their numbers can come back. If they continue to denigrate Biden and say things like “If he runs TCFG will win in a landslide and R’s will win the House and the Senate”, well that will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

  79. 79.

    oldgold

    @Quinerly: This was :

    1. Yes, surprising; and,

    2. She is the best pol in DC.

    As the best pol, when she signals this, you know the matter is far from settled.

  80. 80.

    Eyeroller

    @Soprano2: If so that’s not the way you fix that problem. They also seem to have their own echo chamber.  And Ds seem to pay a lot of attention to the media narrative whereas Rs do not.  Bennett may be just saying it all out loud.

  81. 81.

    lowtechcyclist

    @bbleh: ​
     

    That response from the campaign was brilliant, spot-on: first it makes fun of Trump, and there is no deadlier weapon in politics than mockery and laughter, and second it immediately turns the focus back to him as a lazy selfish criminal and Putin lackey, and it mentions Project 2025 for good measure.

    If every Dem used language like this in every appearance and every quote, the Republicans would be knocked flat.

    Emphatically seconded!

  82. 82.

    Eyeroller

    @oldgold: ​She is the best Speaker in history. That is not the same thing as understanding electoral politics. She has always represented a very safe district.

  84. 84.

    E

    Nancy Pelosi is one of the very very few people I would listen to over Biden. Maybe the only person, and maybe only on the subject of his continued viability as a candidate. Does anyone have a link?

  85. 85.

    Chris

    @kindness:

    The MSM demands what it thinks is it’s due, and it thinks it can control the narrative.  So it is now double and tripling down on the meme that Biden is too old and feeble.

    What’s infuriating is that the only times they can exert control are invariably over Democrats.

    It’s not like we’re the only people they ever try to influence.  They spent two years trying to manifest a Ron DeSantis Republican candidacy into being.  They put so much work into it, in fact, it’s almost certainly what convinced him he had a chance at all.  His campaign went absolutely nowhere, because Republicans don’t pay any attention to that shit.  Right after 2021 they were trying to manifest Trump going away, too, in the hopes that the party would somehow abandon him and revert to some “normal” candidate.  That also went absolutely nowhere.  And so forth.

    The only times they do make a difference is when they’re trolling Democrats, and the reason for that is that the only people who actually take them seriously are either Democrats or independents who’re open to voting Democrat.

  86. 86.

    lowtechcyclist

    The obvious replacement for Joe Biden: Taylor Swift

    She turns 35 in December! ;-)

    ETA: I hope it’s obvious that I’m not the least bit serious about replacing Biden with Taylor Swift, or anyone else for that matter. I’m all in for Biden, period.

  88. 88.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Chris:

    I agree that the pump was primed for the panic. I’m sorry that some in leadership positions went shrieking to the press immediately. Childish behavior that fueled the panic and boosted the media’s feeding frenzy. Now we’re having to deal with the fallout from their weakness.

  89. 89.

    Soprano2

    @Eyeroller: Ds seem to pay a lot of attention to the media narrative

    I think this is a lot of the problem, rather than push back on the media narrative they buy into it.  I don’t think going on TV and saying “If Biden stays at the top of the ticket TFCG wins in a landslide” is a good way to manage this, do you? Even if you believe that, it should be talked about privately rather than on MSNBC.

  90. 90.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Chris: They spent two years trying to manifest a Ron DeSantis Republican candidacy into being. They put so much work into it, in fact, it’s almost certainly what convinced him he had a chance at all. His campaign went absolutely nowhere, because Republicans don’t pay any attention to that shit.

    Let’s be fair. Sure the media pumped DeSantis up but I think we can give him credit for his own crash. The more exposure he got the worse was the public response.

  91. 91.

    Soprano2

    @O. Felix Culpa:  I agree that the pump was primed for the panic. I’m sorry that some in leadership positions went shrieking to the press immediately. Childish behavior that fueled the panic and boosted the media’s feeding frenzy. Now we’re having to deal with the fallout.

    QFT

  92. 92.

    oldgold

    Here is another thing I thought while listening to Pelosi this morning.

    She is the second Democrat, who I have high respect for, that  has surprised me on this. The other was Schiff.

    What do they have in common, besides being extremely talented pols? They are both from California and have political ties with Harris.

  93. 93.

    Quinerly

    @kindness:

    Unfortunately, we as Biden/Harris supporters can’t control the narrative. This narrative about Biden’s age has been set for 2 years plus. He has known it. We have known it.

    I am a realist. It’s like the rules to a game. You can’t change the rules no matter how much you dig in.

    I have no answers. I do think the campaign, the party can’t sustain being hit over the head day in and day out with this. The narrative that Biden is old, not on his game coupled with his horrendous debate performance is not going to go away. It will drown out any messaging about policy and what’s at stake.

  94. 94.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Pasting this from another thread:

    I really hope that the people who keep pushing this bullshit and/or making excuses for those that do, understand that you are actively ruining your reputations right now.  People who truly believe in our coalition, especially the Dem Base, are very much paying attention, and making mental receipts of who they can/can’t trust in the future.  Who is worth listening to and who is not.  Everyone has the choice to stop digging or keep moving themselves forever into the phony-ally/please-ignore category.  It’s your choice and you did this to themselves.  This shit will only hurt your standing in our coalition.  We are in for the fight of our life and you keep trying to light mother-fucking bombs in our coalition, at the worst possible time and despite being told to cut the shit, repeatedly.  Stop dragging our President.

  95. 95.

    Geminid

    @Eyeroller: I would disagree here. One of Pelosi’s strengths was that she got to know all her caucus members no matter what kind of district they were in, and took into account their political concerns. I always thought Pelosi was very attentive to the district-level political landscape.

  96. 96.

    Eyeroller

    @Quinerly: All the data we have (admittedly imperfect), all of history, and the realities of the logistics involved, including ballot access, say that capitulating would be much worse.

  98. 98.

    Mousebumples

    @OzarkHillbilly: I saw a headline last night that made it sound like climate denialism was his cause of death. Might have been my tired brain, but it seemed appropriate! Karmic.

    I posted this downstairs, but I’ll repeat it here.

    As a voter in WI, I think Biden is the ticket’s best bet to win Wisconsin. I remember the 2016 misogyny. I remember the 2022 racism (Sen. Johnson vs Mandela Barnes).

    Less opportunities for racist and misogynist ads with an old White guy.

    I won’t claim to know how voters in other swing states feel, but Biden is our best bet to win Wisconsin.

    I love Harris. Would love her as a future President. Let’s win this election and then plan for what’s next.

  99. 99.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @O. Felix Culpa: We all had the same opportunity to respond “We’re scared too, but NOPE.  Biden is our candidate!” (and many of us did). But not enough. If more people did that the Media narrative would’ve died down. Too many people, who should’ve known better (and were warned/begged not to) took the bait and bought into the scam.   Like ButterEmailz, our clicks and words gave this fire the oxygen needed to keep it burning.

  102. 102.

    Geminid

    @zhena gogolia: My comment had nothing to do with the substance of Pelosi’s remarks. I haven’t even seen them. I was responding to someone who said Nancy Pelosi might not understand electoral politics very well because that is a mistaken view in my opinion, for the reasons stated.

  105. 105.

    Eyeroller

    @Belafon: Trump can no longer even read from a teleprompter.  He freezes up and zones out for several seconds.  But Biden is the one with dementia.  Huh.

  107. 107.

    Quinerly

    @Eyeroller:

    I actually think Harris has a better chance of beating Trump.

    I am pretty sure that a lot of younger voters who are so disgusted with the two old guys running would vote for her.

    Again, I repeat now several days….I have no answers. I just know that the narrative is set. I don’t see it changing. It will be every day….critiquing Biden’s vigor, speech pattern, stance, gait, etc.

  111. 111.

    Eyeroller

    @Geminid: I’m coming to the conclusion that very few Ds understand electoral politics.  We are validating every stereotype of Ds as weak, spineless, disunited, and untrustworthy.  How does it look when our immediate response to a crisis is to run away in panic?

  113. 113.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Quinerly: Bullshit.  Shit trends based on what people talk about.  Project 25 and Epstein are now trending because lots of regular, ordinary people are re-tweeting articles about it.  If we didn’t have any say in any of this, we wouldn’t be writing postcards.  Learn how to pivot from bullshit smears rooted in fear to highlighting all the great/important reasons to re-elect Biden/Harris.

  119. 119.

    Jeffg166

    @Bill K: I have a fantasy that Taylor Swift announces at age 40 she is hanging up the rock star persona and going into politics. She would be perfect. Knows business. Has dealt with sustained criticism. Is used to being a public obsession. Has a brain. Seems to actually care about people and the planet.

  121. 121.

    Quinerly

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Unfortunately, yes. It will be every day until election day. Here, on other blogs,  in the news, at dinner tables, at happy hours.

    When a Dem senator says that he thinks Trump will win in a landslide and take the House and Senate with him, it’s news. It will be discussed. SHOULD be discussed.

    Pelosi’s comments (and Bennett’s comments) this AM will lead the news cycle today for sure.

  122. 122.

    Geminid

    @Eyeroller: You say very few Democrats understand electoral politics, but this appraisal is based on the actions of very few Democrats.

  123. 123.

    p.a.

    If it fits on a bumper sticker it’s bad policy but not necessarily bad politics.

    A Vote for Trump is a Vote for Putin

  125. 125.

    Soprano2

    @Belafon: Note also how he says all kinds of crazy things and the press just shrugs and says “Yeah, that’s TCFG”, as if it’s completely normal to refer to a fictional character as if he’s a real person, or to talk about sharks and boat batteries, or any of a number of other absolutely crazypants things he says at every rally. Just imagine what the reporting would be if Biden talked about a character from a book as if he were a real person!

  127. 127.

    schrodingers_cat

    The way out of this is through this. We need to have Biden’s back. And turn back these attacks. Hold strong. This freakout will vaccinate him against the age attacks and neutralize them until the election.

  130. 130.

    Eyeroller

    @Geminid: It only takes a few, especially if they are prominent, to do this.  Jasmine Crockett is doing her damndest but well, a sitting US Senator went out with his message of doom and he’s a white man so we will listen to him.  That’s just the way it still is.

  131. 131.

    schrodingers_cat

    @zhena gogolia: According to some poster called Lynn Dee. Disenfranchising 14 million voters is okay because she doesn’t know how close Biden is to death. This is her actual quote.

    Aside: Saying he was elected by Democratic primary voters also wasn’t, imo, the point. Obviously, if he died, we’d need to replace him. So, how close to a theoretical death was he? I didn’t know.

  133. 133.

    oldgold

    @Eyeroller: “I’m coming to the conclusion that very few Ds understand electoral politics.”

    That might be, but Pelosi is not in the group of Democrats who does not understand electoral politics. To suggest that she is – is absurd.

    That is why what she signals is so important. Her political acumen is the stuff of legend.

  134. 134.

    Quinerly

    @schrodingers_cat: the media is going to attack any Dem. It’s a given. Part of the rules of this “game,” I spoke of

    It will just be a different kind of an attack. They can’t attack her for not being strong on message. Her age. Her stamina. Her ability to “prosecute” a case against Trump.

  135. 135.

    Soprano2

    @Quinerly:  When a Dem senator says that he thinks Trump will win in a landslide and take the House and Senate with him, it’s news. It will be discussed. SHOULD be discussed.

    That idiot is participating in making this a self-fulfilling prophecy. I have no idea why he did this. If he honestly thinks Biden should drop out, this is definitely not the way to do it. It is the way to fulfill the idea that Democrats are weak, spineless people who cave at the first sign of adversity.

  137. 137.

    Eyeroller

    @Quinerly: “Get ready for the first DEI President.”  She’s a cop.  She’s incompetent.  Biden chose her because she’d no good so nobody would want him to step down. “She’s colored.”

    I am not making those up, they are actual attacks already out there. Some are obviously from the far right but others are not.

  141. 141.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Quinerly: ​
      To the exclusion of everything else? Also, the discussion has gone meta. We aren’t discussing Biden’s fitness for office. We are discussing people discussing people discussing Biden’s fitness for office. And doing it incessantly.

  142. 142.

    Quinerly

    @Soprano2: he was also very complimentary about Biden and what Biden has accomplished.

    My only attempt at an explanation is that these people like Brown, Bennett, Adam Smith, Schiff have had a lot of contact with Biden. One on one and in groups.

    Those of us here who support Biden obviously have not.

  144. 144.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Omnes Omnibus: Everyone is a Pundit.

    Original Pundits, Brahmins wrote Vedas, wrote commentaries on Vedas and wrote commentaries on those commentaries. Then wrote parables on those commentaries for the masses who they thought wouldn’t get the point of the recursive commentaries. It was like navel gazing to the max. That’s what this current freakout feels like.

  145. 145.

    Geminid

    @Eyeroller: I’m not saying a few Democratic electeds aren’t doing harm here. I’m disagreeing with your judgement that very few Democrats understand electoral politics because it just isn’t so.

  146. 146.

    H.E.Wolf

    @Jeffg166: ​ I have a fantasy that Taylor Swift announces at age 40 she is hanging up the rock star persona and going into politics.

     Get back to us after she wins re-election to a city council seat.

  149. 149.

    Belafon

    We keep doing this because there are people here who still we still seem to think need convincing, and they play on our natural tendency to try to convince others of what we believe, and that others have to believe as strong as we do.

  150. 150.

    mali muso

    So the other day, I got push-polled and found the contents of the poll quite interesting. It started off generic enough but by the end, it was a laundry list of attacks against a potential Harris/Trump match, pretty clearly some A/B testing of which attacks poll better. If you want to take a look, here is the poll.

  151. 151.

    JWR

    I’ve been under the weather for the last few days and so missed most of the drama oozing out of some of these Dems, and I am pissed! (FU, Michael Bennett. Go vote for the fascist!) But I gotta say, Nancy Pelosi hasn’t covered herself in glory of late, sounding more “concerned”, among other things, than anything else. But damn it, I want all these ostensible Dems to either put up or shut up. If they know more than we do, then I want to hear about it. No more of this hiding behind anonymity crap.

  152. 152.

    Eyeroller

    @Geminid: True, most of the non-white ones seem a lot better at handling this situation (I already mentioned Ms. Crockett). And AOC is very, very good at it even though she’s in a very safe district.

    I wonder if there’s a generational factor, with older Ds more susceptible to traditional media narratives.  The real problem is those are the ones who get the most media face time.

  153. 153.

    Sheila in nc

    @Quinerly: I’m with Mousebumples on this one. Here in NC we had to watch a very talented Black woman candidate, Cheri Beasley, lose a Senate race to a mediocre white man. We have had no trouble electing white male Democrats to statewide races like governor, but it seemed like a Black woman was a bridge too far for some voters here who would otherwise be open to voting Dem. It’s infuriating. But this is a reason IMO to stick with Biden at this moment.

    Also, time is so short to get everyone’s passions settled and engaged if we change horses in midstream, so to speak. Also, it has been pointed out that the replacement candidate will be under fire as soon as they are decided upon.

    I don’t know how to begin reassuring our various coalition partners until we stop litigating this in public.

  154. 154.

    zhena gogolia

    @Belafon: I am in such despair. Not about Biden — about fucking cowardly spineless Democrats.

    Fuck Bennet and Pelosi and Schiff. I’ll never listen to another word they say. I saw Bennet up close once, and he’s a supercilious ass.

  156. 156.

    UncleEbeneezer

    I love how people who have worshipped AOC for years suddenly refuse to follow her lead.  She gave us the perfect templet for how to respond.  So has Jasmine Crockett.  And several others.  Start using them. FFS, this isn’t complicated.

  157. 157.

    Quinerly

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I don’t disagree with you.

    What should we do?

    What should we do as a blog….as Democrats…..as voters who just want to win with a strong, winning candidate who can get the message out? What can be done to change the narrative? Apparently the threat of a Fascist winning in a landslide doesn’t change the narrative. What does? I respect you….tell me.

    (Yes, I am rambling. Forgive me. I overdid it yesterday with actual physical labor and then a hike. Not a lot of sleep. Plus, I am terrified every day. I would like a break from the Biden is old narrative too. Plus, I am very sad for Biden and his family.)

  158. 158.

    gwangung

    @Eyeroller: There’s most definitely a generational factor. Newer Dems are more feisty and less likely to roll over to press or Republican attacks.

    Dem responses, en masse, won’t change until we have a new generation of Dem politicians, either metaphorically or literally.

  163. 163.

    JWR

    And then there’s the Clinton blow job guy, who, as we all know, sidelines as a medical doctor. From The Guardian, though it can be found elsewhere:

    The ABC News anchor George Stephanopoulos was captured on camera saying he did not think Joe Biden could serve another four years in office, four days after a major TV interview with the US president and amid a re-election campaign in crisis.

    The comment came after Biden attempted to assuage concerns among Democrats about his age and mental acuity, including in the recent interview with Stephanopoulos, previously a prominent political operative.

    The show-business gossip site TMZ published a grainy video captured by an unidentified man walking on Fifth Avenue in New York City, who happened to encounter Stephanopoulos, apparently dressed for a workout.

    The man asked: “Do you think Biden should step down? You’ve talked to him more than anybody else has lately.”

    “I don’t think he can serve four more years,” Stephanopoulos responded, in what he later described as a candid moment.

  164. 164.

    japa21

    @Omnes Omnibus: ​
      As usual, I agree with you. There are lots of things happening apart from this. To the FP folks, please do some posts prohibiting discussion of this topic. As of right now 90% of the posts end up with this as the main comment chum.

  165. 165.

    satby

    @Quinerly: “You have no answers”

    And yet, you keep on saying the same old stuff.  Maybe it’s your cognitive skills. I hear repeating things is a sign.

  166. 166.

    Quinerly

    @zhena gogolia: can you agree that they have spent more time with him than BJer commenters? They have run campaigns and won elections.

    Really enjoy your comments. Respect your opinions.

  168. 168.

    schrodingers_cat

    This is what Trump said in his rally yesterday

    Trump: “Joe’s own party now wants him to throw in the towel and surrender the presidency after a single 90-minute performance. They want crooked Joe out of the race. “It’s a shame the way they’re treating him. But I don’t feel sorry for him. He’s a very bad guy.”

    Congratulations, turncoats he heard you.

  169. 169.

    wenchacha

    My husband is right now at the “dogs and cats living together” stage of freakout. Just venting, mostly, but I need to do something.

    Time to sign up for writing postcards.

  170. 170.

    zhena gogolia

    @Quinerly: I expected this response. That is totally irrelevant to whether the Democratic POTUS who has overwhelmingly won nomination by his party should bow to pressure from the media and throw the campaign into chaos, thus ensuring a Trump victory.

  171. 171.

    zhena gogolia

    @Quinerly: I am deeply disappointed in and disgusted with Schiff, Bennet, Pelosi, and others. If they have concerns about Biden’s fitness, those should be kept within private discussions and not aired on CNN.

  173. 173.

    Mike E

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: I like your letter but if you write to any more of these fuckers may I suggest using the words “selfish” “craven” “cynical”…a glossary page or footnotes defining said words would land well, also.

  174. 174.

    prostratedragon

    It’s a minority session for the Dems. I recall statements that that was explicitly a factor.

  177. 177.

    Hamlet of Melnibone

    Former Senator Jim Inhofe denies that Hell is hotter than it has been in the past.

  178. 178.

    satby

    Look who’s been ratio’d enough to start signing a different tune.

    David Corn  @DavidCornDC  54m

    Trump’s vow to pardon Jan. 6 insurrectionist is as important an issue as Biden’s age.

  179. 179.

    TBone

    @prostratedragon: thank you. She promotes the video I posted upthread.

    The Lincoln Project is out with a new ad, an effort to demonstrate as though it’s a news report what it would mean to have Donald Trump back in office, organized under the principles of Project 2025 and backed by a Supreme Court that has decreed none of his official acts are crimes. It’s four minutes long, but it’s a must watch.

  180. 180.

    E

    @Quinerly: How’s your handwriting? I am attempting to send a postcard to about 500 of the people I have made personal contact with during my canvassing for a liberal gay-married dem in a purple district in a red county.  He’s likely to win and is facing a creepy MAGA dude who is campaigning entirely on his hatred for gay people, trans people, immigrants, abortion, and being woke. Dude is so weird he’s torn the local GOP in two.

    Anyway, I could use some help.

  182. 182.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @satby: I’d argue that 1/6 is a hell-of-a-lot bigger of a deal.  But at least Corn’s changing directions back towards sanity.

  184. 184.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Only one guy was taken off the trail and disappeared after a disastrous debate performance – Trump. He was so f-ing crazy at the debate, and the dial groups tanked on him.

    The reason he’s not campaigning is because he remains bat-shit crazy.

    Twitter.

  185. 185.

    Quinerly

    @satby:

    You could be right. Low blow, I must say. I saw my father die with dementia. In his 80’s. Runs in my family. And, BTW, I don’t think Biden has dementia or even cognitive decline. Aging IS aging though. He is not as strong making his case against Trump as he was 4 years ago. His debate performance was horrendous (repeating myself).

    I am not the enemy. (Wow, I even realize I am repeating myself). I know one thing…. I don’t want to be right so bad that I go around insulting posters and calling them trolls. Just because they disagree with me. I am looking for answers. (Again, repeating myself….hmmmm….).

    Just saying over and over  because Biden beat Trump once he is the only one who can beat Trump again seems a little irrational and not in touch with reality. Maybe you should pie me. That seems to be the way people here want to deal with people who disagree with them. Or you can just hurl insults.

  188. 188.

    satby

    @UncleEbeneezer: Yep, HE’s improved today. Wish some doomers here would. Sure, we’d have a better chance with Harris. The CBC is probably wrong sticking with Joe.

    David Corn @DavidCornDC  1h

    More racism and sexism. Out in the open. No more inhibitions.

    Quote

    Republicans against Trump @RpsAgainstTrump

    Sebastian Gorka on VP Kamala Harris: “She’s a DEI hire, right? She’s a woman. She’s colored. Therefore, she’s got to be good.”

  189. 189.

    schrodingers_cat

    If you are a Democrat its time to put aside your personal grievances and back the ticket. Changing the ticket now is fantasy. It is too late to get on the ballot in many states, then there are campaign finance issues.

  190. 190.

    schrodingers_cat

    @satby: The KHive and most of Black political Twitter is sticking with Joe Biden. KH’s  new found allies will dump her if she is at the top of the ticket in a heartbeat. I don’t trust them at all.

  192. 192.

    Citizen Alan

    @Eyeroller:

    “Get ready for the first DEI President.” She’s a cop. She’s incompetent. Biden chose her because she’d no good so nobody would want him to step down. “She’s colored.”

    It’s adorable that you think they will be even that dignified. The most common attack I have seen from a rank and file MAGAts in social media is that she’s a whore because 30 years ago, she dated Willie Brown and he appointed her to some board that was basically the start of her career in electoral politics.  ERGO, the only reason she’s gotten anywhere in her life is because of the quality of her blow jobs.

    Fucking MAGAt scum.

  193. 193.

    Betty Cracker

    @Quinerly: FWIW, I don’t think you’re doing irreparable damage to the ticket by discussing your concerns — which are shared by millions of Democrats, BTW — on an obscure politics/pets blog. Also, I am appalled by the personal attacks. Fuck this bullshit.

  194. 194.

    Chris Johnson

    @Quinerly: She could be swayed by the fact that Kamala Harris is in fact absolutely fantastic, up to speed with everything, and way better than presented. This is a good sign for 2028.

    Doesn’t mean she should not, like Joe, have eight years in the Vice Presidency learning the ropes. Look at how well Joe’s done after spending eight years as Obama’s VP! Kamala should do that. Then I can vote for HER four times just as I’ll have voted for Joe four times (legally).

  195. 195.

    Soprano2

    @japa21: I think they should pin one to the top for people to use to talk about this, and say “talk about it here, but not on the other threads”. Maybe that would help.

  196. 196.

    satby

    @Quinerly: You’re just asking questions, right? Ok, Joe Rogan 😒

    All the same ones since you popped in a few days ago. In spite of the expressed desire of the majority of people here to move on and solidify behind our nominee. “Can’t we at least discuss it” Sure, we did. And did, and did. Past that point, it’s just bad manners when people want to talk about something else.

    And I’m not apologizing for snark. Edit: my mother passed away from vascular dementia, if we’re comparing.

  197. 197.

    Anyway

    @Eyeroller:

    “Get ready for the first DEI President.”  She’s a cop.  She’s incompetent.  Biden chose her because she’d no good so nobody would want him to step down. “She’s colored.”

    plus there’s a huge anti-California bias among Ds she’d have to deal with – has been seen on this top 10,000 blog even

    ETA: 2016 PTSD is back, big-time

  198. 198.

    Soprano2

    @zhena gogolia:  @Quinerly: I am deeply disappointed in and disgusted with Schiff, Bennet, Pelosi, and others. If they have concerns about Biden’s fitness, those should be kept within private discussions and not aired on CNN.

    QFT. They have handled it so, so poorly, and it’s poured gasoline on the fire, which they had to know would happen. It makes me wonder what they think the end game is here.

  199. 199.

    LanceThruster

    Stacking the deck for the primaries these last few cycles has shown that maybe it’s not quite the flex the DNC seems to Ihink it is. We’re admonished to vote harder as they promise to gaslight harder. Every time it’s brought to my attention what a piece of crap Trump is, I can’t help but recall who elevated him as part of their reckless pied piper strategy. Maybe chicken is not a game they’re up to playing, particularly considering we’re the ones who ultimately pay the price for their monumental miscalculations.

    “We won, except for the fact of that not being reflected in the number of votes we received. Because voters don’t understand the process, they keep thinking earning votes by way of our demonstrating competence in the candidates we run and and how we promote them through our campaigning somehow relieves them of their obligation to give us their votes. If they can’t see that our gaslighting makes an airtight case for being entitled to them, the fault is entirely theirs. They are the weakest link in the process and the sooner Diebold can eliminate that problem once and for all, the better.”

  200. 200.

    O. Felix Culpa

    In the eleventy discussions we’ve had on this topic, I’ve noticed that, as best I can tell, NONE of the POC and LGBTQ individuals on this blog are on the Dump Biden train. The CBC and AOC have his back, as do Black Twitter and the Khive (the latter aren’t even pushing for Kamala to replace Joe). Why is that, do you suppose?

    Quinerly-Consider contacting the Eldorado Dems, if you’re interested. They are an active group.

  201. 201.

    delphinium

    @Quinerly: You won’t get those answers following the press. You may want to call their offices and ask directly. Could be anything from failure to remember how the media always bashes Dems in elections years, wanting attention, fearing polls (rather than looking at voter enthusiasm), not understanding how presidential campaigns work and the difficulty with replacing the ticket at this stage of the game.

    I will say, not sure how continued panic about this actually helps their own re-election chances: “Vote for me-but not the president because he is unfit for office!”

  202. 202.

    Soprano2

    @Quinerly: I don’t think only Biden could beat TCFG, but the time to have this discussion was a year ago. Changing candidates now only shows that Democrats fold at the first sign of adversity, and who wants to vote for a politician who does that? I think it’s crazy that they continue to feed the press frenzy by going on TV like Benet did. What good does he think is going to come from that? I understand the freakout and the fear, but what’s happening now is not a constructive way to deal with it.

  203. 203.

    Quinerly

    @Betty Cracker:  You got some very nasty folks here who are applauded as “valued commenters.”

    My nym is my name. I can be found easily. I don’t hide behind an anonymous, made up name. Insults and accusations are easy when you can hide behind a screen.

    BJ comment section has become cultist…Any dissent is met with the same old behavior. It is impossible to even discuss what is obvious.

  204. 204.

    schrodingers_cat

    @O. Felix Culpa: White people can’t deal with adversity? Or they are subconciously not happy of not being the kingmakers anymore? I just guessing since I am not a white people.

     

    @Quinerly: Holder was on the dump Biden train and he is singing a different tune now. That’s why I mentioned him.

  206. 206.

    Soprano2

    @LanceThruster: No deck was stacked in 2020. Many, many Democrats ran for the nomination, and Biden won. What about this is there that people don’t get? The incumbent running unopposed for a second term is normal, not unusual.

  207. 207.

    satby

    @Betty Cracker: She’s (and Kay, and the other ones) aren’t irreparably damaging the ticket commenting here. They’re just derailing and depressing and deterring other conversations even after people have requested an end to it. No reply assuages them, no reasoned approach mollifies them.

    It’s a binary choice: Biden or the other guy. Gassing endlessly on a blog about vibes is a waste of everyone elses time.

  210. 210.

    Chris Johnson

    I will suggest that it is indeed the fall of an empire… but it ain’t us.

    This is the fall of Russia, and the way they wage modern-day warfare.

    We are basically the finishing blow, not the big battle. They have already lost, because they depended on holding England (which they got into Brexit) and taking France through use of Marine Le Pen, an open Putin ally. They failed twice, quite catastrophically, and so what we see now is the Hitler Bunker scene.

    The desperation moves are basically the burning of every asset they have (willing, or bought, or kompromat-ed) to do this thing with the Biden debate, and all that follows from it. It looks crazy because it is, it’s ruinous to their future chances of being the puppetmasters they so wanted to be. They’re burning the credibility of their assets, and screwing up and confusing all those who trusted those assets. It’s a betrayal.

    I’m reminded that stuff like this is designed to sweep good and sensible people up in the wake of the madness. Don’t forget that part: the whole POINT is to get ordinary people taking the troll positions. There are dozens of nyms I’ve seen on Balloon Juice over the years where I would sooner think Dan Rather was a Kremlin asset than the jackal posters. People just get swept up in imaginings, because they’re meant to.

    Stay the course. This is the fall of the hostile empire, not the triumph of them.

    There’s a video I like on this topic, which I find convincing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBAnt_w8vvY

  211. 211.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @schrodingers_cat:

    You may be right. I’m a wypipo, but have also been a minority in several ways in the course of my life. Plus, I grew up with stories from my mom and her siblings, who lived through the Nazi regime and the Allied bombing campaign and starvation at the end of the war. I fully understand that the stakes in this election are existential, which is why I’m backing Joe until he says he’s not running. There’s no other option.

  213. 213.

    eclare

    @Quinerly:

    Joe Scarborough talked yesterday how back in March or April he met with Joe, and they talked current events/policy for three hours.  In depth discussions about the US and its policy toward boxing in China, Ukraine, Gaza, etc.

    He said afterwards Joe gave him a tour of the White House where they walked up three flights of stairs.  Scarborough said he was exhausted, Joe was fine.

  214. 214.

    Quinerly

    @satby:

    Please pie me.

    I have never pied anyone. If I pie you….would that put you out of the misery of reading my infrequent comments and my questions? You won’t be witness to my cognitive decline. That should make you feel better in your world.

  215. 215.

    Quinerly

    @eclare:  yes. I heard that show. I used to loathe Joe Scar. Now I listen to MJ almost every morning. I say, “listen.” I still can’t bear to look at him. I don’t like to attack appearances. But, he’s one of those people I now would rather listen to than look at. His looks at one time gave me the creeps.

  216. 216.

    Almost Retired

    I liked this quote from Anita Chabria in today’s Los Angeles Times (addressing pundit and big donor angst):

    ”I’m on Joe’s side.  For all the hand-wringing since the debate disaster, I am not seeing an uprising of voters demanding he step down.  Pundits need to pundit and rich people are appalled and distressed whenever their soup is too cold.”

  217. 217.

    wjca

    @laura: Sure feels like white makes right and it’s got my hackles up

    Me, I’m all in on “white makes right.”  I’m white, therefore I’m right when I say Biden must be reelected.   ‘Nuff said.

  219. 219.

    Soprano2

    @Quinerly: My answer is that we have to support our candidate, and right now it appears that candidate is going to be Joe Biden. My answer is that if Biden is going to be the candidate people like Senator Benet aren’t helping by going on TV and saying that if he’s the candidate we’re all doomed, doomed, and TCFG is going to win in a landslide.  People don’t want to vote for politicians who are spineless and scared like that, at least most of the people I know wouldn’t want to vote for that. All they’re doing is feeding the press frenzy and creating a self-fulfilling prophecy that all the workers on the ground are going to have to fight against every single day. It’s discouraging.

    I’m sorry you’re being attacked, because you’re definitely not a troll. People are rightly terrified in the face of what to me is the obvious fact that the press wants TCFG back, and they’ll do whatever they have to do to get him. All these publicly panicking Democrats are helping them in that endeavor, for what reason I have no idea. As I said before, the time to have this conversation with Biden was over a year ago, not five months before the day of the election. As eclare said, the die is already cast, and nothing is gained by us wounding our own candidate.

  220. 220.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @satby: Everyone who contributed to Her Emails would swear on a stack of Bibles that really, THEIR words weren’t part of the problem. But it’s bullshit.  These disinformation/smear campaigns work because tons of people join together and (purposely or not) work in concert to keep the bullshit narrative alive.  All while telling themselves that THEY aren’t part of the problem and THIS space isn’t part of the problem etc.  The Psyops rely on this for them to work.

  221. 221.

    Chris

    @Soprano2:

    I don’t think only Biden could beat TCFG, but the time to have this discussion was a year ago.

    Quite frankly, the time to have that discussion was in 2020.  There’s no way for a president to choose not to run for a second term, even a year before the election, that isn’t dealing a massive body blow to his party, especially if it’s a Democratic president.

  223. 223.

    Quinerly

    @Soprano2: thank you.

    I support Biden. The conversation should have been held 2 years. Hindsight is always 20/20.

    OMG….I am repeating  myself. Sorry that I am the only one here who has done that.

  225. 225.

    eclare

    @Quinerly:

    Mika has been one of Biden’s biggest supporters.  I think her family and his go way back.  But she is constantly asking how can you question Biden’s mental fitness and not TCFG’s?

  226. 226.

    Soprano2

    @Quinerly: LOL, that’s why I think they should pin a thread somewhere for people to talk about it. The problem with stopping is that idiots like Senator Benet keep fueling the fire. Right now I’m listening to the O Boys go on about how when they met Biden at the WH at Christmas he was fine, but before the Correspondent’s dinner he seemed older and more tired or something. All they’re doing is adding fuel to the fire, this is in no way a constructive way for them to use their platform. It’s discouraging and enraging.

  228. 228.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Soprano2: Obama needs to smack them upside the head publicly. And come out forcefully for Joe Biden. He did tweet on the next day but he needs to give a public statement now unequivocally backing the Biden-Harris ticket. So does Bill Clinton.

  229. 229.

    eclare

    @Soprano2:

    I think a pinned thread would be a great idea.  As for the Obama Bros, as I commented last night, I saw them on Colbert a few weeks ago, and one had just gotten back from filming Survivor.  They are not serious.  I now see them as reality star wannabes.  Maybe they’ll end up on The Kardashians.

  232. 232.

    Soprano2

    @eclare: I think Jon Lovett is all of that. I think the others are more serious, especially Dan Pfeiffer. I don’t know if he’s participating in this or not. I also agree with what schrodinger’s cat said that Obama needs to come out publicly in support of Biden. He should call these idiots and tell them he thought he taught them better than this. They’re talking about that stupid story about Parkinson’s!

  234. 234.

    wjca

    @Quinerly: BJ comment section has become cultist…Any dissent is met with the same old behavior.

    And yet I dissent all the time.  (Being far more conservative than the norm here.)  And I don’t get slandered or shouted down.**  Disagreed with?  Sure.  But I’ve gotten kudos on occasion as well.

    ** Full disclosure.  I did get accused of being a troll.  Once.  Nobody seemed to agree.

  239. 239.

    wjca

    @schrodingers_cat: Obama needs to smack them upside the head publicly. And come out forcefully for Joe Biden. He did tweet on the next day but he needs to give a public statement now unequivocally backing the Biden-Harris ticket.

    Seems like every time I go on YouTube, the lead ad is Obama asking for donations to the Biden-Harris campaign.  Can’t get much more forcefully supportive than that.

  242. 242.

    Soprano2

    Listening to the O Boys more, and at this point I think there isn’t anything that will convince them that Biden is OK. Nothing he’s done so far has assuaged them. It’s sooooooo disappointing. They think that the reason they aren’t talking about TCFG like this is because they think Biden is a decent man, and TCFG isn’t. No, you idiots, it’s BECAUSE THE PRESS WANTS TCFG BACK!! That’s the whole thing.

  243. 243.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Oboy.

    It’s as though 2016 never happened.

    “The lesson of history is that nobody learns from history.”

  245. 245.

    Quinerly

    @wjca: but have you actually questioned Biden’s ability to defeat Trump at this point in time? If so, I missed it.

    Unlike some here who post every day in every thread, I don’t have the time for that. BJ is a very small part of my world. I go weeks without reading comments. Scan for links to read on my own.

  246. 246.

    Quinerly

    @Mike E: he just raised a lot of money for Biden. He just spent a lot of time with him, one on one, I would have to think.

    Money talks…you know that.

  247. 247.

    Soprano2

    Wow, now they’re in fantasy land where having different candidates try to win the nomination at the convention would be exciting, and it wouldn’t totally alienate all the black voters when you overlook Harris (although they do say she would be the favorite). We’re in Green Lantern territory now.

  248. 248.

    MinuteMan

    The problem with the Dem PTB is that they take Democratic voters for granted. They got away with it in 2020 when they orchestrated a Biden nomination; then they managed to avoid a squabbling open convention which seemed all too possible since Sanders was unlikely to have a majority of the delegates going into the convention. However, this time it feels like a betrayal: they are rolling over to the MSM scandal mongers to thwart the primary voters. In a turn-out election, demonstrating to the your voters that their vote doesn’t really count is a an extremely dangerous strategy. Ripping defeat from the jaws of victory has long been a Democratic failing.

  249. 249.

    gvg

    @schrodingers_cat: I suspect Bill’s support won’t help. Seriously, I think he may be in decline and well it might not be a help at all. He has not been seen much for several years and when we do see him, he looks really frail. I thought if Hillary had won, she might have had to deal with being widowed in office.

  253. 253.

    Citizen Alan

    @wjca: Part of the problem may be that Obama thinks supporting Joe too openly will just galvanize the conspiracy theory that “Senile Joe” is just Obama’s puppet.

  255. 255.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Quinerly: With respect, all those questions have been asked.  Over and over and over again. And then over again some more.  Part of the pushback you’re getting is because people are sick to death of this now multiweek merry-go-round. There’s nothing additive at this point.

    My realistic take is that Joe is our candidate until and unless he says he’s not. Which means I have to fight for his reelection with all I’ve got. And now I’m going to have some fun and study Portuguese irregular verb tenses.

  257. 257.

    PBK

    @Betty Cracker: YES.  Thank you.  Glad to have WaterGirl doing the work with her fundraising efforts and Mousebumples (and others) getting out there with postcard writing, volunteering, etc. as a counter to some of this bullshit.

  258. 258.

    LanceThruster

    But what does Magic Grampa say?

    Trust takes a long time to be restored, if even possible.

    “My word as a Biden” is a phrase regularly offered unironicly.

    I mean, if you can trust a guy that earned three degrees on a full scholarship graduating at the top of his class, who can you trust

    Dems saw the problem with Hillary’s “public and private position” in her speech to Wall St was it being leaked, as opposed to the statement itself.

    Negative campaigning is used so frequently because it has a fairly solid track record.

    Herr Shicklgruber’s strategy of messages tailored to the lowest common denominater recognized the power of the emotional appeal tapping into existing prejudices. Intellectuals, academics, and the like, could be effectively ignored because when you get right down to it, there aren’t enough of them to matter. 50%+1 one means the low information voters is where the greatest opportunity for success using smoke and mirrors and little else.

    Give them an opening easy to exploit and you’ll be on your heels and unable to plant your feet to counterpunch.

    The self-depracation on age might work along the lines of Reagan’s “I won’t hold my opponent’s youth and inexperience against him.”

    I think a flex move by Biden would be to start wearing an onion on his belt without mentioning it.

    He was wearing a spray tan for his George S. interview so it’s probably prudent to confirm which “Orange Man bad” they mean moving forward.

    It’s similar to when Caitlin Johnstone observed following recent condemnation of Russia, “I guess bombing hospitals is bad now.”

  260. 260.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: yep. I checked in after a couple days break because I got so fucking fed up with it, and it’s still going on, so I am checking out again. Fuck this shit.

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