Thank you, Bernie!
Bernie Sanders: Joe Biden for President (gift link from Subaru Diane)
I will do all that I can to see that President Biden is re-elected. Why? Despite my disagreements with him on particular issues, he has been the most effective president in the modern history of our country and is the strongest candidate to defeat Donald Trump — a demagogue and pathological liar. It’s time to learn a lesson from the progressive and centrist forces in France who, despite profound political differences, came together this week to soundly defeat right-wing extremism.
I strongly disagree with Mr. Biden on the question of U.S. support for Israel’s horrific war against the Palestinian people. The United States should not provide Benjamin Netanyahu’s right-wing extremist government with another nickel as it continues to create one of the worst humanitarian disasters in modern history.
I strongly disagree with the president’s belief that the Affordable Care Act, as useful as it has been, will ever address America’s health care crisis. Our health care system is broken, dysfunctional and wildly expensive and needs to be replaced with a “Medicare for all” single-payer system. Health care is a human right.
And those are not my only disagreements with Mr. Biden.
But for over two weeks now, the corporate media has obsessively focused on the June presidential debate and the cognitive capabilities of a man who has, perhaps, the most difficult and stressful job in the world. The media has frantically searched for every living human being who no longer supports the president or any neurologist who wants to appear on TV. Unfortunately, too many Democrats have joined that circular firing squad.
Yes. I know: Mr. Biden is old, is prone to gaffes, walks stiffly and had a disastrous debate with Mr. Trump. But this I also know: A presidential election is not an entertainment contest. It does not begin or end with a 90-minute debate.
Enough! Mr. Biden may not be the ideal candidate, but he will be the candidate and should be the candidate. And with an effective campaign that speaks to the needs of working families, he will not only defeat Mr. Trump but beat him badly. It’s time for Democrats to stop the bickering and nit-picking.
VFX Lurker
I expect the typo in the title to get fixed as soon as I click “Post Comment.”
Jackie
Check your Presient spelling in title 😊
Jackie
@VFX Lurker: 😂
WaterGirl
@VFX Lurker: @Jackie:
I was about to say I left out the C, but Jackie beat me to it.
mrmoshpotato
I see Bernie has finally pulled his ratfucking head out of his ass.
VFX Lurker
Yay! Thank you for the swift fix.
Also, I think the gift link was from commenter “SiubhanDuinne.”
WaterGirl
@VFX Lurker: I can never remember how to spell her actual nym, so I go with Subaru Diane.
WaterGirl
@mrmoshpotato: Come on, Bernie did a good thing here at an important time. I think he deserves some credit not a fuck you for what he did before.
Jackie
@WaterGirl: Agreed. When someone does the right thing, you say “thank you.”
beef
Bernie has been pretty consistent at supporting Biden through this bullshit storm. So has AOC and the other progressives.
Freemark
@mrmoshpotato: Bernie has been a stronger supporter of Democrats than many Democratic politicians.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@beef: And, how.
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
I think it’s cute.
$8 blue check mistermix
Good for Bernie.
The Times is clearly a little shaken by (I assume) the loss of subscriptions. Keep unsubscribing folks! It’s the only thing that will get their attention.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@$8 blue check mistermix: I unsubscribed years ago, I’ve unsubscribed as hard as I can. No more…
twbrandt
@$8 blue check mistermix: I’ve been tempted to resubscribe just so I can cancel again.
TBone
I still adore Bernie no matter what anyone says (and voted for Hillary BECAUSE TEAM). I wish someone would also publish an op ed by Senator Fetterman. He’s been a staunch friend to the end as well, and has a way with words. PA style.
His emails lately have been colorful! 😎
Chris Johnson
@WaterGirl: Don’t sweat it. I was a Bernie guy myself and have voted for both Dems he endorsed, starting with Hillary Clinton.
He wouldn’t mind haters popping out of the woodwork because he’s doing the right thing, and it’s just possible some of the hysterical left will be swayed. I know in my pundit circles, Beau is rock solid, ContraPoints seems to be on an even keel, Xanderhal is fantastic and is on the same page with us, DemonMama is very shook and can only think of protecting fellow trans folk under worst-case scenarios, and Vaush has flipped completely and is doom-posting like a madman, like he’s become Tim Pool. Ya hate to see it. It is just possible that Bernie making a strong case will at least shake the Vaushes of the world up, those that are not just Caleb Maupin or Michael Tracey.
(note for those not super online in lefty circles: both of those are faux leftists, ‘tankies’, who passionately defend everything Russia does in an Alex Jones manner, arguing and yelling and interrupting because they’re fighting a war of internets and think they can just be maddeningly repetitive and that will help. Seems familiar?)
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@twbrandt: Is it possible to subscribe then shut it back off before the payment processes?
chemiclord
@mrmoshpotato: About the only thing I really drag Bernie for was his extremely reluctant endorsement of Hillary in 2016. He’s been a solid blue vote in every way ever since.
Well… and his choice of campaign staff was very subpar and never represented him or his positions terribly well. So two things, I guess.
trollhattan
Top of the BBC News webpage right now:
Hamas-run health ministry says 90 killed in Israeli strike targeting military chief
Biden is teetering: Trump’s plan? Let it happen
Everybody is joining this fun game.
twbrandt
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: look like you can.
trollhattan
@chemiclord: His peak moment was in the debate: “I’m sick of hearing about the damn emails” or however he put it.
Yet the NYT et al kept it going for MONTHS after, long after she won the nomination.
VFX Lurker
@Chris Johnson: The only names I recognized in this post were “Tim Pool” and “Michael Tracey,” and that’s only because Ragnarok Lobster mocks them regularly on Twitter.
If any of them can persuade their readers/listeners to vote for Biden, though, more power to ’em.
Uncle Cosmo
@mrmushpottymouth: Unlike you, who continue to admire your colonic polyps up close and poisonous while you continue to fight for air…
In the immoral words of Barbra Streisand’s character in The Owl and the Pussycat:
Mr. Bemused Senior
Sad but true. I did.
4D*hiker
War Dispatch from Oklahoma: A not insubstantial portion of Project 2025 is already a grim reality in this state. I don’t recommend it. The enemy is not at the gates; the enemy is in the field, and the battle is joined. In the vanguard of the army arrayed against us are legions of theocratic/dominionist orcs, racists and white nationalists, willfully blind voters reflexively pulling the R lever, cynical politicians putting “party” and self-interests before country, foreign bots and bad actors, unengaged “normies,” and assorted conmen, grifters, and a regrettably large number of the ignorant, selfish common ruck, with support in the wings by greedy, amoral billionaires/corporations and our pernicious MSM……all led by that sodden lump of Orange Malice and Depravity that is Donald Trump.
In short, our own version of the “Battle of Helm’s Deep.”
I have not always been a Democrat. It was Obama who opened my eyes and mind to political possibilities and aspirations for our country. I was raised in a religious tradition which originated in Switzerland back in the 19th century. Although I’m a 4th generation American, both my mother and father (and all my relatives) are of Swiss extraction. I won’t name the religion here, but it is similar to the better known Amish. I was hesitant to reveal this for a number of reasons, but it makes my point that the Democratic coalition is broad and deep and complex. Trust it.
One of the Democratic party’s greatest strengths is the willingness and enthusiasm to entertain different ideas/different viewpoints and discuss/debate them, sometimes down into a fine, granular powdered state. But like many strengths, it can also be a weakness. Time is short. The hour is late. Biden will almost surely not drop out. Yes, the majority of voters think Biden is old, but they also want to stay the course with Biden/Harris. In the unlikely event that Biden does drop out, we have a very capable vice-president who can step up. We will win if we stick together and fight.
I rarely comment on blogs, but I have been following the conversation closely since the debate. We must stop the hand-wringing, back-stabbing, and squabbling. Ignore the naysayers and shit-stirrers. The only way to meet this existential threat to our country is to stand shoulder to shoulder with grim resolve and fight back. We can make inroads into the group of unengaged normies, and chip away at the margins of undecided voters, disillusioned youth voters, quiet conservatives who are increasingly repulsed by Trump’s manifest flaws, GOP women who are conflicted by the war on reproductive rights, etc. Disseminate as widely as possible the information on Project 2025 and its vile mandates. The majority of Americans will not agree with that vision of our country.
Good for Bernie. We WILL win if we stick together. That’s not “group think;” it’s f*cking reality.
Strength and courage to Biden/Harris and all those foot soldiers dedicated to winning this battle.
trollhattan
Person, woman, man, camera, TV has entered the convo.
Kay
Genuinely good news. I hope he can bring his supporters in.
O. Felix Culpa
@4D*hiker:
Well said. Danke.
John Revolta
Again with the “disastrous debate”.
I appreciate Bernie’s support here but we need to stop spreading this characterization. It wasn’t Joe’s best night but it was nowhere near as bad as everybody seems to think. WHY does everybody think that?- because everybody keeps SAYING it. All the time. Let’s knock it off already.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@John Revolta: I agree with you though I think that characterization is impossible to erase.
Biden has admitted, in effect, it was a mistake. An admission that Trump never makes. To die-hard Trump voters admitting a mistake is a weakness. I call it strength.
John Revolta
@Mr. Bemused Senior: Well, if we can’t erase it, the next best thing would be to memoryhole it. Everybody on the other side keeps bringing it up just fine (and I put the MSM in this number). We don’t need to help them. Even Repubs know better than to keep bringing up all the awful shit they do!
Mr. Bemused Senior
There I agree 💯
UncleEbeneezer
Other MJS
And at the bottom of the article … three links to “Biden can’t win” essays
Celebs in particular need to STFU.
Eyeroller
@John Revolta: It has become, to the media, a single word, like a compound noun in German.
UncleEbeneezer
Ishiyama
Bernie says: Ya dance with the guy what brung ya!
zhena gogolia
Since the overwhelming majority of the comments are negative, I sent a comment thanking Senator Sanders. It hasn’t been approved.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@UncleEbeneezer: If this year breaks the myth of the liberal media and Biden blows this election out of the water, this year will have been worth the journey.
Omnes Omnibus
@zhena gogolia: Makes you wonder if other supportive comments haven’t been approved as well.
sab
This election season won’t really begin until Trump names his VP. And then Trump will be outraged because his VP will get all the attention. Everyone knows Trump is fading fast cognitively.
The election is Biden v 25th Amendment.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@zhena gogolia: They individually approved comments? How cumbersome. There are better ways to moderate and better uses for their resources.
That’s a strong approach to protecting a hermetically sealed agenda, however.
sab
@Ishiyama: That was actually Al Sharpton.
Ishiyama
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: From your lips to the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s noodlely appendages.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@zhena gogolia: since my cancellation takes effect Aug. 5 I thought I’d join you. “The comments section is closed.” Gosh, I wonder why.
P.S., they’re already begging me to reactivate. Sorry, no.
Tony G
Good for Bernie!
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@sab: I read that as A.I. Sharpton and my brain loves that concept.
Fighting for equitable society never ends and we can’t leave the bad people all the automated tools.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@UncleEbeneezer:
Yup. Democrats are digging in their heels and are pushing back *hard*. It’s good to see it play out across the media landscape.
And the money coming in. That got talked about last week, probably because of the reporting cycle but to use a cliche, “Money Talks” and it’s been another powerful voice pushing back on the media narrative and our coterie of Loyal-Dems-But crowd.
And good on Sanders. Yeah, he’s got a ton of “buts” in there but (hah!) he’s getting past those and seeing the bigger picture with the endorsement.
O. Felix Culpa
@UncleEbeneezer:
This is news I want to hear, but are there sources for these assertions? I don’t see any data referenced in the tweet. I don’t have an active account anymore, so can’t dive deeper into the thread
I want this to be true, and, as my long-ago audit professor always said: Trust, but verify.
Sure Lurkalot
@trollhattan:
Hey there, Trump fella, how about tax returns? For the good of the country!
Tony Jay
@zhena gogolia:
That’s the same approach the FTF Guardian takes to non-narrative approved commentary. If no one sees it, it didn’t happen. Next thing you know they’ll ban you for “breaking community guidelines”.
Bonus points if you get banned for directly quoting their own reporting. Proper sign of outlaw status, that.
dc
I greatly appreciate the public support. But I wish he had been as specific with why he supports Biden as he did for his criticisms.
debit
@Mr. Bemused Senior: I cancelled my decades long subscription at the Washington Post. They kept sending emails begging me to come back, and finally, one with a comment box, asking what they could do to win me back. My reply was not nice.
West of the Rockies
@UncleEbeneezer:
Did it mention the Washington Post? They’ve been all-in on the Joe Must Go beat..
Lefthanded compliment
Here’s some sound advice and heartening words from former Republican campaign operative Stuart Stevens, who has seen the light:
Please, can we take a step back and look at the structure of the 2024 presidential race?
A man found liable for sexual assault that the judge called “rape” is the Republican nominee.
A man convicted of 34 felonies and is running for president out on bail is the Republican nominee. In most states he couldn’t vote for himself.
A man who was very close to Jeffery Epstein is the Republican nominee.
“I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”
A man who promises to hold a “military tribunal” to prosecute the daughter of a former Republican V.P. for treason, punishable by death, is the Republican nominee.
A man who considers church a place to go every fifteen years or so to marry a model is running against a devout Catholic.
This is an easy race to win. Don’t over complicate it. Trump won one election with 46.2 %. The man who beat him is the incumbent President of the United States with the best record of any first term post-WW2 presidents, the man more Americans voted for than any candidate in American history.
Don’t fall into the trap of beating yourself. Be confident. We are right and they are wrong. There are more of us than them.
Stay together and focus on the evil of Donald Trump. On bad days, work harder. On good days, work harder. Be steady, relentless, focused. Support each other.
Make history. Defend the American Experiment. Defend the legacy of the Greatest Generation.
Don’t let Donald Trump steal America. Not on our watch. Put aside differences for another day and hold the line. This is bigger than any of us.
Victory is out there, waiting. Go out and take it. And the rest of our lives we will know we were there when America needed us.
https://x.com/stuartpstevens/status/1812143936733065726
Lapassionara
Some interesting news: Melania is not on the speakers’ list for the GOP convention. Hmmmm.
Trump is now getting security briefings. Yikes.
O. Felix Culpa
@dc: It’s Bernie. I’ll take his support even with the policy
kvetchescaveats. He’s been a team player with Biden and that’s a plus.Former Commenter
You fucking hypocrites. I guess he’s not a Russian agent any more huh?
mrmoshpotato
@Uncle Cosmo: There’s a pie filter.
Sister Golden Bear
@UncleEbeneezer: MSM afterwards: bUt IsN’t DoInG mEdIa InTeRvIeWs???!!!
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: Of course it hasn’t!
West of the Rockies
@Lapassionara:
Probably with boldfaced 32 font and lots of colored drawings in the fashion of a child’s diner menu. Connect the dots to find the terrorist!
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@mrmoshpotato: Better people turn their whole comment section into dessert buffets than you have to listen to someone tell you you’re wrong, amirite?
Sister Golden Bear
@UncleEbeneezer:
Pundits: Here’s why this is bad news for Biden…
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@West of the Rockies: Just a week after he blabbed publicly about the status and capabilities of our nuclear submarines in Cuba.
WaterGirl
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Sanders is modeling this for every other person who doesn’t like something about Biden.
I don’t like how Biden handled Gaza, but he’s still the best candidate and I’m voting for him.
I don’t like how Biden is handling X, but he’s still the best candidate and I’m voting for him.
Biden may have sucked at the debate, but he’s still the best candidate and I’m voting for him.
Grown-ups understand that there is a binary choice – who is better?
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Lefthanded compliment:
It’s been said before that former GQP water carriers like Stevens are better spokespeople for the Democratic Presidential Candidate than Dems of a certain melanin persuasion.
For example, just saw another CO Dem, Brittany Fucking Petterson, CO District 7, white, female (also a Reaganomics-For-Housing “progressive” which of course black folks here note and deride appropriately) come out asking Biden to step down. Given her economic claptrap, it’s no wonder she doesn’t listen to the *base* of the Dem party.
If she were in my district, she’d get the “Welcome to the Tonya Harding Democrat Club” letter I sent to our senior Senator, Michael Fucking Bennett earlier in the week.
Suzanne
Good on Bernie.
I have been listening to a podcast today that I am really enjoying….. it’s the latest episode of “The Focus Group” with Sarah Longwell, guest is Audie Cornish. I usually find Longwell obnoxious, but she’s doing a better job listening this time. Overwhelming message from voters so far is pragmatic: it’s just too late to make any kind of change to the plan, so go with Joe. This is really where I’ve been over the last week. Certainty matters, steadiness matters.
I will note that I think it’s entirely reasonable for people to feel pretty dang confident that, barring a disaster, the person they elect is the person who serves out the term.
twbrandt
On a heavily-traveled part of I-94 in Michigan, near the Detroit airport, is a billboard with an image of a glowering Trump and the words “Project 2025. Google it”.
Dems are not fucking around.
Suzanne
@WaterGirl: Sanders is also modeling approaching politics like it’s about doing stuff and not about being someone’s stan. That approach has dominated both sides of the aisle for too long and it’s incredibly gross.
MisterForkbeard
@Former Commenter: I don’t think the blog has been particularly angry at Bernie since 2020 or so, when he was very helpful to Biden.
Many of us were very angry in 2016 after he spent months feeding a bunch of anti-hillary trolls. This reversed when he showed party and country loyalty in the next election.
I’m not sure which former commenter you are, but you should probably go fuck off. Sorry: Fuck off again.
MisterForkbeard
@Suzanne: Yes – Sanders has been doing a pretty great job for the last few years, and this is a good example. Glad he’s here.
Sister Golden Bear
@Lapassionara:
I’d like to think they’re simply some poor security officer showing Trump a single sheet of paper with “Putin bad” written in large letters. In crayon.
Seriously, I assume the briefest are being extremely judicious in what they’re telling him. They could just create a page of bullet points of the day’s headlines and Trump wouldn’t know any difference.
Ishiyama
And where are the front-page essays by the Clintons and the Obamas?
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@MisterForkbeard: Today is my first day back because I got driven away by commenters nursing that chip on their shoulders just a couple months ago. It colors commentary here on a much broader scope of issues than just candidate Bernie.
That said, former commenter here might want to learn to take their wins gracefully wherever such wins present themselves.
hrprogressive
@twbrandt:
@twbrandt:
Do you know who is sponsoring it?
That billboard should be everywhere.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne:
According to the Social Security actuarial tables, the life expectancy of an 81-year-old male is another 7.43 years. Joe Biden’s family tends to be long-lived, he’s healthy apart from a stiffened spine and neuropathy in his feet, and he has the best healthcare in the world. So his chances of completing a second term are pretty good.
I had dear friends in their 40’s and 50’s who died a few weeks after a cancer diagnosis. They seemed healthy before that. None of us knows what will happen to any of us. The good news is that Joe has an EXCELLENT backup in Kamala. So I’m fine with the actuarial risks of this ticket.
Besides, have you seen the other guy?
Ksmiami
@sab: then it’s definitely not Kristi (animal murderer) Noem because Trump would know he’d be in imminent danger
twbrandt
@hrprogressive: I don’t know. I agree, it should be everywhere.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@O. Felix Culpa:
Massive plus. It’s not really different than some of the other Dems with national aspirations who have been there for Biden over the last couple of weeks; in a couple of instances, they are people we dislike/distrust on a variety of policy levels. Their support now will count for something down the line for old-school liberals with elephantine memories.
As for Sanders, it sends an important message despite the kvetching–it’s so on-brand for him, I’m guessing/hoping most people will simply gloss over it as “Bernie Being Bernie”.
moonbat
@UncleEbeneezer: Ha-ha! (hear that as my braying donkey laugh).
FAFO also applies to the MSM and their precious Narrative™.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
…which is delivered to them from on high and they are powerless to change.
Verily it is the word of God the MSM delivers; supplicate yourselves, peasants.
Jay
@Ksmiami:
It’s either going to be John Barron or David Dennison.
trollhattan
@twbrandt:
Love that!
gene108
NYT does its job well. From the comments: (highlighting mine):
Three quick points on the comment:
1. Fear of a second Trump term, Project 2025, and more Federalist Society judges has many many people in a total panic, and
2. Biden’s debate performance was that bad. There’s no undoing it. If all a person sees of Biden is the debate, it more than justifies all the “concern” the media has had about Biden being able to serve out a second term. They started on this in 2020, and
3. I don’t know if Biden can get idiots like this guy to come around and vote for him. That’s his biggest challenge. To get the anti-Trump vote to vote for him and not stay home or leave the line blank.
Also, policy really doesn’t matter to most people, even when it directly affects them. Very little usually changes from one election to the next.
It takes decades for major changes to really have an impact on the way people live. Look at how long the problems Reagan’s policies unleashed are only now being honestly recognized.
Suzanne
@O. Felix Culpa: OMG. Yes. Yes. I have seen the other guy. I’m not voting for the other guy. Fucken hell.
I am, however, going to push back in the entire line of argument that is trying to convince me that this shit is totally random and that risks of poor health outcomes do not increase with age. That’s ridiculous from an evidence point of view. I am going to push back against the argument that anyone who doesn’t feel fantastic overwhelming confidence in Joe Biden’s capability is some sort of old-people hater or “bedwetter” or whatever the fuck.
Let’s be straight with people: this is not a fantastic situation we are in. But it is where we find ourselves. And the consequences for losing are unfathomable. So we go into the election with the ticket we have and make the best of it.
Belafon
Kristen Welker gets onto Biden for not getting names right, and then she calls him President Trump:
https://x.com/Marmel/status/1812155613297988056
UncleEbeneezer
@WaterGirl: I think the best approach, and the one usually used by campaigns, is to only focus on positives. If you are trying to persuade reluctant voters, conceding that a candidate wasn’t great on X always turns the topic to X and more bashing and justification for not voting for them. It puts the discussion away from who is the best candidate into nit-picking over the better candidate’s imperfections. That’s what the trolls want, as we can see them do all the time.
Biden’s list of accomplishments, and his promises for his next term (Restoring Roe, Passing Voting Rights, etc.) are more than enough to give any decent person plenty of reasons to vote for him and VP Harris. I think it’s better to control the narrative. Make the skeptic acknowledge the importance of all the other issues, and why our candidate is better. Biden is better than Trump on EVERY issue. Period. Full stop. And he is the candidate who will ensure that we actually have some say on every issue going forward by protecting Democracy instead of destroying it.
O. Felix Culpa
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
Heh. Yes, it is clear from various press-quislings’ comments that they have NO agency and must forever bow at the altar of the Almighty Narrative, namely Joe So Old.
Thou shalt have no other narratives before this.
Ruckus
@twbrandt:
You win at least comment of this post!
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne: Hmm, I don’t see where I said any of those things or used any of those names. Rather, I gave statistical references and supporting information that are fairly positive while acknowledging that there is still risk. And that risk is mitigated by having an outstanding VP. But feel free to fulminate about things I didn’t say or even think. Or rather, don’t. It’s insulting.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
My confidence is in the administration as a team and the Democrats as a team. I have confidence in the mission. I have confidence Biden will continue his objectively mostly great work as long as he can and that, if one day he can’t, his backup is terrific. Congress will only do its job with Democrats in charge.
Biden doesn’t aspire to be a king and shouldn’t be treated as an aspiring king who needs to hold the world together through his own personal indomitability.
No more kings.
japa21
@gene108:
And you actually accept that letter as being legitimate?
Archon
@Belafon: I actually thought Welker was pretty good in her other roles but she has been an absolute disaster as host of Meet the Press.
pluky
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: All of Sen. Sanders’ “buts” are on longstanding points of policy disagreement. No surprises, nor equivocation on ‘is President Biden up to the job’. Never been a Bernie Guy myself, but this is kind of pushback needed.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@gene108: The olive branches to disaffected Republicans came during the Obama years. They took them and slapped us with them.
Republican politicians and talking heads are the enemy of the American people. The convincing failed, time to draw lines and see where regular people choose to stand.
$8 blue check mistermix
@MisterForkbeard:
You’re shining up the history of the anti-Bernie folks here. For years after 2016 some of the commenters here would pollute the comments of almost every post I made because I voted for Bernie in the NY primary in 2016. It was years, and it was stupid, since I never said an anti-Clinton word after the primary was over. Many commenters were driven off and the quality of comments suffered as a result.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@O. Felix Culpa:
I swear UncleEbeezer’s ‘Loyal-Dems-But’ description will be my Cleek’s Law going forward.
Ruckus
@4D*hiker:
This is a war, not won on the preverbal battlefields but in the voting booth. But just because it is won with who we select, not who we shoot that does not make it less than 2 rather extreme sides that actually want a difference between good and crap. Conservatives want the money side to win – I think because I think they look at money as the end all be all. But money is how we pay for things, not how we select the people that run the government that works for all of us.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@$8 blue check mistermix: Again, the sentiments linger even if Bernie is not mentioned by name. See Schrodinger’s
catnever-ending crusade against the Left as it exists in her head.Suzanne
@O. Felix Culpa: When someone expresses concern about the likelihood of decline or death at an advanced age, and you respond, “None of us knows what will happen to any of us”….. that is really gliding over the fact that we do know that all of us will decline and die. And that that is more likely to happen with each passing year. These are things we know! An average 81-year-old American man stands an 80% chance of surviving the next four years, or something close to that. I don’t think it’s weird for people to think that 80% is not fabulous, that they really don’t feel comfortable with that kind of dice roll.
Lapassionara
@twbrandt: I wish they would use the photo of Trump cowering before Putin after their Helsinki summit. I know I sound like a broken record on this, but the “glowering Trump” mugshot is designed to project strength. In fact Trump is weak, and we need visuals that communicate his weakness.
Archon
@gene108: The choice seems simple to me. Are you voting for the party that wants fascism or the party fighting against it?
I’m a black man though maybe this is different for white folks, maybe its more nuanced like, “yeah i get it, but how will fascism effect me?”
Suzanne
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Dude, you can just talk shit to me directly instead of leaving veiled passive-aggressive comments. It’s okay.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne: You know that I gave a more reasoned answer than that. With actual data and stuff. The sentence you quote was a secondary argument, and is still true. I expected better from you than such trite cherry-picking and putting words in my mouth. Go do some hot yoga or something.
Ksmiami
@Archon: I’m Rt there with you. It’s truly a chicken breast vs tire rims and anthrax election.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Suzanne: Do me next. I didn’t talk shit, but engaged with your comment.
Chris Johnson
@VFX Lurker: I swear I’m gonna turn you guys on to Xanderhal. He’s just this kid, but he comes out of a sketchy family situation and has ridden out a nasty wave of drama (dated a meth addict and got taken for a ride, then broke up) and he seems to have one hell of a shit detector.
Him and his WHOLE chat are ride or die for Biden, in the face of other lefties acting like fools. They’re mighty good people.
I showed up in his site chat finally, and a troll was there making anti-Biden remarks, and someone said ban the troll and Xan banned me by mistake as I was the newest name. I was nonplussed, but guessed it was some mistake. And then I watched as most of his chat noticed, remembered I had been saying pro-Biden stuff, and patiently agitated to get me unbanned… which he then did. They said they cared about justice. And they do.
Quite a night. If I’m in his stream again and there’s a Balloon Juice thread up I might drop a link to his youtube :) smart kid! Gives ya hope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6HdpbhkRX4
Jackie
@Sister Golden Bear:
Hopefully along the lines of “GQP presidential candidate seen entertaining authoritarian Putin lover at home residence.”
zhena gogolia
@4D*hiker:
thank you!
MisterForkbeard
@$8 blue check mistermix: I said we were positive about him largely after 2020.
There was a lot of residual anger for 2016. Which I still agree on – Bernie (or more precisely, his campaign and supporters) were a big drag on the 2016 ticket. But boosters on the 2020 ticket.
There are a lot of people still angry about the 2016 stuff, for obvious reasons but also a lot of people who think he’s been doing just fine for the past 4 and like him quite a bit.
Suzanne
@O. Felix Culpa: My point is that while you may be comfortable with the actuarial risks of the ticket, other people are not. And that is absolutely reasonable. (And, I will note, we knew that people had age-related concerns about Biden years ago.)
If we actually want to win, we have to convince all these squishy people! Negative partisanship — hey, have you seen the other guy? — wasn’t enough in 2016. So we have to go convince people. Are we gonna start from a position of “your concerns are dumb”? Because that is sure as fuck not the way to do it.
sab
Biden needs to run on his record. Which is mostly excellent.
The rest of us need to troll Trump.
Chris Johnson
That last link is ‘Streamers and Video Essayists React To DJMuel’s ‘Xanderhal Is Not Your Ally”.
It’s an amazing introduction to what the online left can be like. Muel is an awful person (at least at this time) but there is a whole roundtable of just about the whole online left, all of them condemning Muel. If you are into vicarious watching bad people be clowned on, it’s a very long and engaging watch.
sab
the tech hamsters hate me
Jackie
@hrprogressive: I’d hate being a Milwaukeean right now: billboards of both races EVERYWHERE!
https://www.rawstory.com/milwaukee-republican-convention-trump-billboards/
Ksmiami
@Suzanne: the Democrats have a strong team and believe in good governance. The other guys want to hurt Americans. That’s the entire election in a nutshell
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Suzanne: Wait, I’m confused. Is there not an entire administration there including a highly qualified VP ready to step in at a moment’s notice?
We don’t need Biden to make it ’til 2028, however preferable that may be, we need the ticket to prevail in November.
You know, team stuff.
Suzanne
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Yeah, you’re not the one leaving passive-aggressive comments. But, I mean, feel free to talk some shit if you like.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne: Good grief. The Have You Seen the Other Guy was a throw-away line for fun. A fucking joke. In a conversation I thought was among virtual friends or at least acquaintances. Not with a random person in the street.
And the other guy is only 3 years younger than Biden. The actuarial chances aren’t much better for him. So if people’s concerns are truly about candidate age–and not using age as a cover for something else–then Option A and Option B are virtually the same on that score. So they’ll just have to pick their poison, won’t they.
ETA: To repeat, we have an excellent backup in Kamala. And yes, I’m EXTREMELY comfortable with that. Who knows what orc the Felon will hork up for his VP slot.
ETA2: I regret engaging with someone who will not respond honestly and puts words in my mouth. Moving on. Take your hostility and distortions elsewhere.
Ksmiami
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: there’s a process in place to deal with aging and infirm presidents, there isn’t one to handle dictators supported by an entire party.
zhena gogolia
@Lefthanded compliment: That’s great.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Suzanne: I just may if you continue to focus on adversarial rather than constructive remarks.
You know, troll stuff.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Ksmiami: ‘xactly.
Omnes Omnibus
And they were offering some facts that may assuage the concerns of some of those who are concerned with Biden’s age. They were not saying those concerns were dumb.
Suzanne
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: A fair amount of voters do not see it that way. I see it that way, and so do you and so does everyone else here, but a shit-ton of people do not. They are scared of some degree of upheaval should the president die or not be able to serve.
Now, I am aware that we have a process, that Kamala Harris is capable. But, like, when we had presidents disabled in the past, it was hidden from the public and their wives were running a lot of the show in secret. That sucks. I cannot blame anyone for thinking that that is a terrible outcome.
CaseyL
@Suzanne:We’re not saying “your concerns are dumb,” we’re saying “your concerns are overblown because Vice President Kamala Harris is ready to step in if needed.”
The “wives running things in secret” was, SFAIK, ONE wife: Mrs. Wilson. Were there others?
ETA: OK, I just remembered Nancy Reagan did it, too. My bad.
Do you see Jill Biden even wanting to do that, much less pulling it off?
Jay
@Ksmiami:
that comment is a very good start for a conversation when somebody starts with Biden is Old,….
Citizen Alan
@gene108: Adam Kinzinger. Jesus. Yes, by all means, let’s put a republican on the democratic ticket.
Suzanne
@Omnes Omnibus: Maybe I’m just fucken risk-averse, but, like, that data doesn’t bring me any comfort at all. If anything, that data makes it worse.
(I am risk-averse, BTW. Very.)
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Suzanne: Everyone here is aware of people seeing it both ways. I have friends who get their news from TikTok too.
So now, is your energy better spent trying to broaden their view or convincing us to focus in on the narrow slice of media approved messaging because some people believe it?
ETA: What Omnes said too. If you believe in the shared efforts of Democrats and the capabilities of Biden’s chosen administration and successor, identify why and share that with those you know want to do the right thing.
Tony Jay
@Lapassionara:
Trim young military fellow arrives at Mal El Lardo, gets overcharged for parking, is escorted to Trump’s private room which is mocked-up to look like a cheap Oval Office set, with Stench himself sitting behind a half-size Resolute replica. Young fellow salutes, takes a seat. Stench sits back with a smarmy grin.
“I’ll have my top-secret security briefing now, soldier.”
“Sailor, Mr Trump.”
“What?”
The young fellow in the Naval uniform opens his briefcase, takes out a manila folder, offers it to Stench.
“Your briefing, Mister Trump.”
Glowers. “Read it to me.”
Sailor opens folder, takes out single sheet of paper. Reads:
“You are a traitor and a massive security risk.”
Puts sheet of paper back in manila folder, closes folder, puts folder back into briefcase. Stands, salutes, turns around and walks out.
That would be satisfactory.
Suzanne
@CaseyL: I know Eleanor Roosevelt was very engaged in work when FDR was approaching end of life, though that wasn’t a secret. Not as bad as Mrs. Wilson. Still not great.
gene108
@japa21:
NYT writers are posing as subscribers and posting comments? I don’t get what point you are trying to make.
SuzieC
@Sister Golden Bear: I’m dying to know how many subscriptions the Times lost.
CaseyL
I feel constrained to point out, again, that social media is not real life.
Claims made on social media need to cite original, verifiable sources.
Also: Who the fuck is Graham Hackett, and what variety of cheese is he using for brains in suggesting putting a GOPer on the Democratic Presidential ticket?
Eyeroller
@Citizen Alan: Kind of gives away the commenter’s game, doesn’t it?
Also, we are all aware that the FTFNYT chooses which comments to publish and especially which to feature, right? Zhena said earlier she could not get a positive comment approved, at least not quickly, on (IIRC) Bernie’s op-ed.
Timill
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
You would think so, but apparently she’s brown, which is disqualifying…
Omnes Omnibus
@gene108: Do you believe that everything posted on the internet is post by people acting in good faith?
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Timill: I’m not ready to conclude that is Suzanne’s concern.
zhena gogolia
@Eyeroller: It still hasn’t been approved. Hours later.
burritoboy
“Biden be old” is a narrative, but “Underdog becomes a Winner”, “The Comeback Kid” and “Rich Assholes Don’t Own Us / You” are some very powerful master narratives with very deep resonances in the American psyche. Now, time to work those storylines, because they WORK. The American thing, if it exists, is about those things: The Comeback Kid, coming from the working-class city of Scranton and with a stutter, works his ass off and becomes a President for all of us. He’s been knocked down before and gotten back up, and he knows that the fight is for all of us to pull together, and for the long haul.
Lapassionara
@Tony Jay: let it be so!
Jay
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/rcmp-rescue-bear-that-locked-itself-inside-car-in-belcarra-1.7262396
Suzanne
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
I have been trying to broaden views on this, yes.
zhena gogolia
@burritoboy: I think classism is at least as big a factor in the media hate for Biden as ageism and ableism. Not one of those isms is very attractive.
IOW, I agree with your comment.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Omnes Omnibus: Even if the comment is good faith, it might be a pea brain considering itself a galaxy brain trying to solve a fake problem and not considering the ramifications of the solution.
Mousebumples
*checks notes* All of them,
KatieSuzie.Obviously not true. Russia probably still has some subscriptions to check on their investment. Right?
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Suzanne: Good. Look to us for courage. Sounds like you could use some support.
Suzanne
@Timill:
You know, Kamala Harris was my first choice in 2020. I still have my KAMALA hat. Ready to go.
I am not the person you need to convince.
Half of the people I talk to are the ones you need to convince.
Josie
@burritoboy:
This approach is pure gold. I hope Biden’s people have thought of it and will put it into practice.
Eyeroller
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I’m sure it was a real person expressing his real pudding-headed opinion. As I mentioned, though, comments are effectively the modern version of letters to the editor and they must be approved, and it is not unusual for approved comments to toe the line. Especially if it was among the “editor’s choice” group.
Omnes Omnibus
So it appears that the rumor that Biden is taking weekend off is not strictly accurate. He did calls with the New Democrat Coalition and the CPC.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@burritoboy:
It’s worked once already for him in 2020 when the base of the *Democratic* Party spoke.
It’ll happen again because the base is standing firm.
ColoradoGuy
Credit where it’s due: I don’t think any of us expected that Biden would turn to Elizabeth Warren and Bernie as policy advisors after his election in 2020. He made a sharp turn to the left, unlike Bill Clinton or Obama, and did NOT dump on his base. He danced with the ones that brung him … and still does.
So full credit there … to Biden and our base. And yes, we are the majority of the country, despite what the NYT, WaPo, CNN, or MSNBC tell us.
Suzanne
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Yeah, it fucking sucks. I have all these smart, talented, educated, diverse-and-pretty-woke young people in my professional circles and in my son’s friend group, and even in my own middle-aged friend group, and I try talking to them….. and it’s fucken rough. They are not on board. They do not feel heard or seen. And no, they don’t vote Republican, but there is not much love for Dems, either. My son knows the score.
ETA: And Biden won by 44,000 votes across four swing states last time…… we need everybody to stay on board. Eeeeaaaaaarghhhhh.
Geminid
@Sister Golden Bear: Yeah, just because Trump’s getting security briefings doesn’t mean he’s getting sensitive material. Administration officials can give Trump what they want and if he wants to make an issue of it so much the better, because he’s opening up another line of attack on himself. Trump’s record in this area is terrible.
Maybe Biden’s people can provide a change of pace on occasion. Instead of a couple mid-level NSC staffers, they can let Jake Sullivan and William Burns brief Trump. Sullivan can read him chapter and verse about Russian penetration of his campaign apparatus and drop a few tid-bits about Trump himself. Burns wouldn’t have to say a thing, just glare at Trump the entire time.
Dan B
@Archon: Me too. All the gay men I know are afraid of Project 2025 abd Agenda 47. My neighbors are first and second generation immigrants. We’re represented by Adam Smith. He doesn’t seem to know what would befall his constituents under TCFG.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Suzanne: Having to make a choice crystallizes things. You know these are good people.
I keep reminding folk that the President isn’t everything, not close. You don’t want to vote for Biden, well, is someone closer to home doing good work that you want to make sure the attain/retain office? How about ballot questions?
Point is get their ass in the voting booth for any/whatever reason, them trust them to do the right thing on the top line when the chips are down and shit is real.
gene108
@Omnes Omnibus:
No.
I just assumed the NYT comments section wasn’t full of posts from Russian troll farms. The people posting are subscribers to the paper.
The comment is also inline with many of the other comments wanting Biden to be replaced.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@ColoradoGuy:
That’s a really important distinction to highlight. A black political activist I know via twitter often says, and he’s mostly serious, is that the best two Republican presidents since Ike were Clinton and Obama. He’s another one who looks at white liberals with a healthy amount of skepticism, particularly on some econ policies and their reactions like we’ve seen play out over the last couple of weeks.
The fact that Biden chose Harris as VP sent a message that he would be different, same with Sec Pete, in terms of putting together an incredibly effective team. It’s as if he embraced his role when it finally came to him and reached out to people like Warren and Sanders on top of his admin picks to really chart a different course.
Belafon
I’m sure the Republicans and the press are just enjoying us go after each other, splitting into “Keep Biden”, “Replace Biden”, and “Replace Biden and Harris” camps. My take: there are three courses of action, two of which involve blowing things up and hoping they can be put together in time, and the third involves watching the temperature gauge and topping off the oil at every stop.
But the polls are already back to pre-debate levels, and Project 2025 is starting to also have an impact, so much so that the Heritage Foundation and Facebook are doing everything they can to make sure that people on the site aren’t getting the truth.
Now, I mean we’re already so fractured that cryptobros are threatening to withhold money from Democratic campaigns. My personal belief is we should band together and crush them, the media’s need to feel like they’ve decided the election, and the party that wants to turn us into a Christofascist And times cult with nuclear weapons. And the way to do that is to keep going. Because, I’m sorry, Harris’s poll numbers will drop the moment she becomes the nominee, and no one else will be able to take her place at the top.
Why we can’t say “Fuck you” to the pundits and tell the wishy-washy Dems in Congress to grow a spine is completely lost on me. I mean, they’re the kind of people who react to the last people they talk to, so make it us. And, while doing that, we GOTV, donate, and tell people about what is going to happen of Trump and Republicans win.
Nelle
@4D*hiker: Hello and welcome. I’m of Russian Mennonite (well, now we know as Ukrainian) background (1st generation American). Fellow traveler, likely.
Suzanne
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: The problem is that not choosing is also a choice. That’s what I’m scared of. That’s what happened in 2016.
I hate risk.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne: So, data doesn’t speak to you and even feeds your anxiety. Fine. You could have said so rather than strawmanning me. For the record, I don’t respond well to dishonest arguments and attacks based on things I didn’t say.
That said, I understand the anxiety that comes from being around disaffected voters (as well as the uncertainty of this election). I’ve had to deal with the same since the debate. It really got me down a few days ago. We each have to find a way forward that works for ourselves. In my case, the press conference addressed the concerns of at least some folks in my circle. I hope that the binary choice between Old Guy Biden and Old Guy Fascist eventually motivates the other doubters. Plus the fact that we have excellent VP Harris on our team.
Eyeroller
@Belafon: Some commenters have wondered about why people like Rick Wilson and Stuart Stevens seem to get this so much better than most Democrats. I think the answer is very simple. They were Republican campaign consultants. Republicans play to win and Democrats play to not lose. That makes a difference. Sometimes “playing to win” results in very dirty tactics (I think Rick Wilson was behind the Willy Horton attack on Michael Dukakis) and we don’t want to sink that low, but “going high” all the time doesn’t work either.
cintibud
shots fired at Trump rally.
TBone
Somebody took one for the team! Dotard removed from stage after shots fired at rally, AP said blood visible on his ear.
FAFO
UncleEbeneezer
@MisterForkbeard: The residual anger is from the continuing denial/downplaying of the effect BernieBros have had on our coalition. They’ve never wanted to admit the damage that their fellow-travelers did in 2016.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Suzanne: Get more butts to the polls, by any means available. If people show up, the rest take care of itself. It’s all we can do.
Publicly fretting just exacerbates and validates the doubts.
cain
@cintibud: I just heard that! Damn! Who as stupid enough to bring a gun into a Trump rally?
Maybe we will finally have Biden off their radar and they can focus on this
Geminid
@gene108: That letter did not ring true to me. I’ve seen a lot of similar complaints that Democrats conspired to keep Biden’s alleged condition under wraps. They are being made by people who are not Democrats to begin with and do not intend to vote Democratic whether it’s Biden or Harris. I suspect the Kinzinger suggestion is also a decoy.
Another Scott
@cintibud:
APNews.com.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@TBone: What the fuck is wrong with you?
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
Many of us spent decades doing exactly this, thus, anecdotes about “the youngs” not being fully onboard and Biden’s outreach sucks or whatever (so let’s replace him, oh, we can’t realistically do that?, then let’s just go back to saying all the ways he or his campaign is inadequate and ignore how the system setup as a backstop should all these potential bad things the Loyal-Dems-But crowd fear come to pass actually address the overaching strategic question) is essentially deja vu all over again.
The message is “Suck it up, Princess/Prince and vote” cuz this is *nothing* new. Was I an enthusiastic Walter Mondale voter? No, but me and the other 8 people that voted for him didn’t spend our time caveating our way around other liberals about whatever he wasn’t doing “right” because we had a clear choice (and we’ve seen the ginormous mistake this country made a second time putting Fucking Reagan back in the WH) and made it. It’s American Presidential Politics 101 post-Watergate.
Mousebumples
@cain: how the fuck did a gun get past the Secret Service?!
Suzanne
@O. Felix Culpa: Data does speak to me. But when the consequences are really fucken bad, my risk tolerance is different! It’s like when right-wing idiots at the beginning of Covid were trying to convince me that a 1% chance of dying was small. No, motherfuckers, that’s really not a small risk. That’s a big fucken risk.
And I see people having all that same calculator-in-their-heads shit spinning like a hamster wheel. Probably most people my age are remembering their own loved ones decline and die over years-long timeframes. (I certainly am, it was incredibly difficult and traumatizing and literally led me away from religion.) So I am really struggling with this whole line of argument that the media created this concern (they amplified it, though), and the whole tenor of the discussion.
Gretchen
@Mr. Bemused Senior: That’s hilarious that they shut down comments. Not enough said “Biden must quit” I guess.
zhena gogolia
@Mousebumples: It’s very weird.
ETA: Someone in the other thread hypothesizes a pellet gun.
Mousebumples
Suzanne
What the fuck?
UncleEbeneezer
I would also add Progressive Podcasters and Commenters to that list.
Another Scott
@Mousebumples: Excellent list.
The APNews story says “loud noises”.
We will get more accurate information later. No need to get ahead of the information.
Cheers,
Scott.
Eyeroller
@Geminid: Except for the rather perplexing suggestion of Kinzinger (which suggests somebody who leans Republican but perhaps “country club Republican”) the opinion was completely in line with that of several commenters here. So I’m sure it was a real person.
Suzanne
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I will note that Mondale lost, so maybe a re-evaluation of tactics is in order. Maybe SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP should be updated for the new era? I would actually like to win.
CaseyL
@Geminid:
What alleged condition?
I’ve heard everything from Alzheimers to Parkinson’s Disease.
His condition is that he’s elderly. Physically a little unsteady. Mentally as sharp as ever. Verbally, the same as he’s always been: a bit of a gaffe machine. (Please stop it with the name mix-ups and verbals gaffes: Not only do I mix up names, I once went totally blank on the name of my BFF since age 12. When I was in my thirties, FFS.) Full stop.
Belafon
@Eyeroller: And I totally get why Democrats play defense, ever since the CRA/VRA Democrats have had to spend their time preventing those from being torn down since whites left them in such large numbers. But it definitely feels like now is the time we have to learn to fight. Because if we wait now, they’re going to roll right over us.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne: I get it. I’m furious and anxious about this cycle the media created. And please consider counting to ten before slagging a fellow commenter who doesn’t have insight into your psyche?
I am curious though, why the presence of VP Harris on the team doesn’t seem to mitigate the risk for you or the other folks you mentioned. She’s younger and capable. I find that reassuring. Does no one in your circle feel the same?
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Mousebumples: On January 6, he wanted them let in with guns.👀
Mousebumples
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: yup. I have no idea.
I saw a report of blood on his (Trump’s ear), but I think that was just from someone watching on TV.
Good timing for kiddo bedtime. I’ll step away and see if we have anything we know later tonight…
CaseyL
Wasn’t there a scene in The Dead Zone where they faked an assassination attempt to garner sympathy for the demon spawn candidate?
ETA: No, I think the scene was a real attempt, and the demon spawn put his foot in it by grabbing a child and holding the kid up as a shield,
burritoboy
There’s no option without risk. The only thing we can do is trust each other and bring the fight back to the enemy.
There are very few in the upper levels of American politics who is the embodiment of what we all each need to do more than Joe Biden is. His opponent is the archetype of the Rich Asshole. Joe Biden stutters, and sometimes his mouth gets ahead of his brain. Ain’t none of us perfect, ain’t none of us should throw the first stone. Joe knows what it is to struggle, and he knows how to get back up and keep fighting. He’s done that all his life since starting out in Scranton, and wanting to be a lawyer even though he was struggling with a mouth that didn’t always do what he wanted. Lots of people would have given up at that point, but Joe didn’t. That’s the American Dream, and the other guy started out with three silver spoons in his mouth.
cain
@Mousebumples: I blame event organizers. Clearly they didn’t do their job.
Suzanne
@O. Felix Culpa: Fair. I apologize.
I think the concern is really more about a long decline and a lack of transparency. The Edith Wilson scenario, the puppet pulling the strings. Like it or not, people have more expectations for transparency now than in the past. There’s already supposition that Jill Biden has been pushing Joe to run this time. I have no idea if it’s true, but it’s also not the kind of rumor that serves us well.
ETA: And I think there is concern that, if Joe was to slowly decline and become unable, that he wouldn’t recognize it. And I remember the day my grandfather totaled his car and still insisted that he was fine to drive. That feels like an incredibly human and relatable thing, and also totally awful.
Geminid
@Eyeroller: I think Republican defectors like Wilson and Filipkowski also understand how weak a candidate Trump is. They believe he cannot withstand aggressive attacks and want to get on with it.
As for the question of substituting Harris for Biden, they also know what the Republican poison machine will do to Harris if this happens. They know what they could do if they were still Republican smear-slingers.
w_seattle
@burritoboy: I have been thinking about these themes as well. Maybe add in some “Eye of the Tiger” at rallies.
cain
This is going to get really complicated – the right wing noise machine is going to get apoplectic. The russia troll farms are going to go into overdrive – the inherent victimhood of fascists are going to come to fore – the churches are going to be doing prayer warrior bullshit. Trump is going to get a heady dose of narcissistic attention.
What’s going to make me vomit is the GOP doing whatever thing is. If we want to get ahead of this, we need to start talking about ‘guns! we need gun amendments!’ Because they are going to politicize the shit out of this and the media is going to follow along.
I look forward to editorials about how Biden needs to reach out to Trump.
CaseyL
@Suzanne:
You have some unusual worst case scenarios.
You seem to believe Jill Biden wants to be the power behind the throne, and is pushing a reluctant Joe Biden to stay in the race.
You seem to believe that Kamala Harris has no interest or. influence in what’s going on; or, alternatively, you don’t think she should have any interest or influence in what’s going one.
I honestly don’t understand what you’re getting at. These sound like plot points from political thrillers. The Manchurian Candidate or something. Where are you getting this stuff?
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
So we go into the election with the ticket we have and make the best of it.
And I believe it is a good ticket. If Joe Biden has issues we have a great VP backup in Harris. Which of course may be part of the problem with some, a woman of color may become president.
So the hell what is wrong with that? She’s smart and I’d bet knows the job backwards and forwards now. The only place it’s enshrined that a woman cannot do the job is in the minds of jackasses. She’s learned at the hand of one of the best presidents of my 3/4 of a century.
I am so tired of this crapola about skin color being a negative. Every human being with skin any darker than snow white or the box I’m typing in, has the exact same chemical in their bodies – melanin. And those with snow white skin just have less. Melanin is the chemical that colors our skin – and we all have some. Or we’d all look like Casper the ghost.
Geminid
@Eyeroller: Like I said, I thought the Kinzinger suggestion was a decoy. So was the complaint about Democrats failing to reach out to Republicans
But I do think it was a real person. They just pretended to be something they’re not.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne: Apology accepted. :)
I have heard those rumors too. They do not seem congruent with Jill’s character, and they do seem grossly misogynistic–the evil scheming hag behind the throne. I just don’t see Jill as Lady MacBeth, do you?
I think that if Biden were really in the throes of serious illness, both he and Jill would rather spend his remaining days together and with their grandchildren. They’re not monsters.
Biden performed fine at his press conference. He displayed a firm grasp of economic and foreign policy. (Yes gaffes. It was ever thus.) He spoke effectively at the Detroit rally. Folks who are seriously ill and in decline simply cannot do that. We’re better off not listening to whisper campaigns and instead doing something that feeds us, whether it’s physical exercise or writing postcards or cooking something fucking awesome.
Belafon
@Eyeroller: Also, I don’t think of “We’re not gonna take it anymore” as going low.
CaseyL
If someone shot at Trump, it’s hard to know if his physical/moral cowardice will win out and he’ll refuse to go out in public again, or his Messianic Asshole complex will come to the fore (“They couldn’t hit me because God protected me!”).
I’d bet on the latter. His advisors will all go for the latter. They already think he’s god*’s chosen; this to them will be proof.
*Beelzebub, or maybe Vaal.
Ruckus
@UncleEbeneezer:
THIS. Absolutely ______ THIS.
One of the best comments ever. 5 gold stars!
Suzanne
@CaseyL: I don’t believe Jill wants to pull strings.
I think most other people — many of whom probably don’t love Kamala for whatever reason — want certainty that the president is in good health, has solid judgment, is straight-up and transparent with them, and that they can basically tune the fuck out for four years. Anything that threatens that proposition is scary to them.
Gretchen
@Suzanne: It’s not really a dice roll, though. If Biden doesn’t finish his term, we’ve got Harris. He’s been making sure she’s in on everything from the beginning so she’ll be ready if need be..
O. Felix Culpa
@CaseyL: According to the news, Trump pumped his fist at the crowd as the Secret Service was hustling him away.
This may not have been a staged Reichstag fire event, but it will be used to similar effect.
Geminid
@CaseyL: I do not share the NYT commenter’s concerns in the least; I’m just conveying his argument.
Personally, I thought that letter was as phony as a three dollar bill. I’ve seen similar arguments by people claiming to be Democrats or persuadable voters who have no intention to vote for our ticket no matter who heads it. A few of these guys started parachuting in here since the debate but I can find them in other spaces fairly easily.
Suzanne
@O. Felix Culpa:
I just want to note that I don’t think it’s monster behavior to overrate one’s capabilities. It’s so, so hard. It’s so human.
I think Joe and Jill are good people.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
Very true and yet. Some people seem to have zero understanding of the actual world around them, the animals, the weather, the foods they don’t eat, the – OK the list can go on forever.
But the world can be extremely cruel, and in the blink of an eye. Anyone with even a few years behind them should recognize this, it’s not actually a secret. One can think that life is a game and many do. But it is also, in some ways, can be an actual game, if that’s how you live it. Most of us do not want to do that because life can be rather difficult and not at al funny at the same time it’s fun for someone else.
burritoboy
“I have been thinking about these themes as well. Maybe add in some “Eye of the Tiger” at rallies.”
That’s precisely the song running through my mind when I was writing my comments!
Gretchen
@O. Felix Culpa: I’m curious about when Trump will finally name his VP. I think he’ll put it off as long as possible, both to keep all the candidates flattering him, and because he doesn’t want to share the spotlight. The VP candidate will inevitable get a bit of the spotlight, and he can’t stand that.
Aussie Sheila
@Lefthanded compliment:
Funny that an ex-Republican speaks the best electoral commonsense I’ve seen in a while from US commentators. His words exactly.
Focus and unity is not just for its own sake. It’s a force multiplyer.
Your opponents know this. Learn it.
I don’t mean you personally, I mean the US left and centre left generally.
Gretchen
@CaseyL: I think it’s the latter. As the Secret Service was taking him to the car, he was waving his fist so hard he hit one of the Secret Service agents, and seemed to be yelling “fight”. He looked absolutely furious.
Aussie Sheila
@Belafon:
I’d give this an ‘upvote’ if this site had them.
Again and again, this.
Ruckus
@cain:
Who was stupid enough to bring a gun to a shitforbrains rally?
How many days do you think it would take to count them all, one by one?
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
As we get older we do slow down. We do seem to think of the past more than the future, after all there is more of the past than the future. And the older one gets, one knows every new day could be the last. Sure you don’t think about it just that way but it is true. We do not know how long we will live, none of us normally do unless you create the end. But at some point you know the end is nearer than the start is, unless you think you’ll be the first to live forever. And I believe that is called insanity.
Msb
I don’t agree with Bernie on everything, but I say, “Amen, brother!” On this.