Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Beware of advice from anyone for whom Democrats are “they” and not “we.”

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, door #2)

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

The arc of the moral universe does not bend itself. it is up to us to bend it.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Not loving this new fraud based economy.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

He really is that stupid.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Mean-Spirited Partisans Open Thread

Mean-Spirited Partisans Open Thread

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If you choose to go below the fold, don’t say you weren’t warned.

From what’s been reported to date, the shooter sounds like most of the guys I knew from our college SF Club / Tolkien Fellowship meetings when I was his age: a basically well-intentioned (yet frequently annoying) dork with vaguely libertarian ideas (his father, apparently, was registered to vote as a Libertarian) and a certain resemblance to the preserved fetal piglets in high-school science labs.

How this low-rent recreation of the Grassy Knoll incident is liable to play out over the next days and weeks, I can’t predict, except that it will be dumber and more dishonest than even our most cynical Democratic predictions, because This Is Where We Are.

Captain Obvious to the rescue:

Reader Interactions

86Comments

  1. 1.

    Trivia Man

    The Rifle Ultimately Missed the President act. Vote for the TRUMP act to ban these Trump-targeting weapons!

    Or The Rifles Used against Major People Earned A Rejection

    TRUMP EAR act

  2. 2.

    Rusty

    How about we pray for the family and friends of Corey Comperatore, and the two victims in critical condition and their families and friends.  For the people providing healing care to them.  And even to Trumps family, Baron is a teenager that almost lost his father to gun violence.  Trump is a victim of gun violence too, I’ve prayed for his healing too.  I don’t care what the other side does, I do care what we do in response to gun violence (and all of this is motivation for gun control).

  3. 3.

    sdhays

    I don’t think it’s worth spending much time on, but the whole “if he died, the Republican Party would have just pulled a ‘more viable candidate’ out of its fecal-filled arse” is just an absurd level of magical thinking. I mean, who the fuck takes over for Donnie at a literal moment’s notice? There’s no successor. There’s no one palatable to fill that void without at least some process. And the people running the RNC aren’t there because they have a clue how to run a national party. They’re there to funnel money into Donald Trump’s pockets.

    It would be the shittiest of shitshows. And who’s to say at the end they settle on “a more viable candidate” rather than Don Jr.? We can’t possibly know!

  4. 4.

    khead

    Secret Service is crawling with MAGAs in real life yet my social media has exploded with dumbass wingnuts claiming they are all DEI hires.  Dana Houle may be onto something about the GOP heading off into Schiavo-land.

  5. 5.

    Suzanne

    To be fair to Matt Yglesias here, and maybe steelman his comment…. there is always a tendency for people to look for a logical “reason” that someone to commit an act like this, and there’s an attempt to construct an understandable narrative. But often it’s really unsatisfying; there’s no mapping rational thinking on irrational behavior. It seems obvious, but the attempt is there every time.

  6. 6.

    hrprogressive

    I have seen some people claim that right-leaning “never trumpers” are apparently using this as an excuse to move back into the Trump camp…and, I mean

    1) If they were that softly opposed to him before, what’s to say they would have continued opposing him come November?

    2) How big a slice of the electorate could really fall into the category of “staunch conservative republican who loathed Convicted Felon Donald Trump enough to call themselves a quote unquote Never Trumper but now, after an apparent failed attempt on his life, at his own rally, after years of fomenting violence against everyone else and standing ready to turn this country into a theocratic Fascist Hellscape via Project 2025, have decided that it’s Trump Time for Reasons”?

    Like.

    Is it smart to think there might be a few people who move towards him because of this? Sure.

    But some sort of landslide-level movement?

    Really?

    This isn’t Ronald Reagan and this isn’t the 1980’s.

    I do not understand people pre-conceding the election like this.

    The logic, such as it is, escapes me.

    Can anyone make it make sense?

  7. 7.

    Another Scott

    @sdhays: Counter-factuals can be fun.

    Isn’t the way these things usually work is that the last person he bleeds on gets anointed with the mantle of leadership??  Something like that.  That would point to the winner being the big Secret Service guy in the sunglasses, maybe??

    //

    (repost) Brookings.edu – What happens if a candidate cannot serve? (from September 2023):

    If the candidate dies or is incapacitated between mid-June 2024 when the primaries are over and before the Wednesday night of the nominating convention (the traditional time for the roll call vote) the convention would become what conventions used to be before reforms made the primaries dominant (minus the smoke-filled rooms.) Delegates would arrive in Milwaukee (for the Republicans) or Chicago (for the Democrats) largely uncommitted. They would then engage in the arduous process of deciding who their nominee should be. Presidential hopefuls would go from state delegation to state delegation making their case as did Sen. John Kennedy and Sen. Lyndon Johnson as recently as the 1960 convention in Los Angeles. The Republicans may have to adopt a new rule at the beginning of their convention so that the dead man’s delegates would be free. The Democrats have a rule saying that delegates shall “in all good conscience” vote for the person they were elected to represent — so they would most likely not need a rules change.

    If the Republican candidate dies or is incapacitated after the convention and before Election Day, the Republican National Committee (RNC) will meet to select a presidential candidate and/or vice-presidential candidate under Rule 9 of party rules.

    Since every state has three RNC members and then some add-ons for Republican elected officials the states are not apportioned according to population — thus RNC members will cast the same number of votes as their state was entitled to cast at the convention and a new nominee will be selected by majority vote.

    So, there’s a process in that counter-factual situation. If they’re actually willing to follow it.

    Yeah, it would be a disaster for them, trying to get a majority vote for one candidate. This is, after all, the party that through [wtf?] threw out their House Speaker and spent weeks and weeks and ballots and ballots trying to pick a successor. They couldn’t even do the quasi-normal thing of picking the widow (for lower offices, anyway) since she wasn’t born here.

    But, the candidates in November are still (and will be) Biden and Trump.

    Eyes on the prizes.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  8. 8.

    moonbat

    @hrprogressive: The “logic” such as it is boils down to “Scare the hell out of the D voter to the point they concede the election before the first ballot is cast.”

    That’s what all the “Biden must step down!” was since the debate and that’s what all the “Trump is a sure thing now that someone shot at him!” is now.

    They know they are in a terrible position and are trying to get us to unilaterally disarm, politically speaking. No pun was intended there. Extraordinarily telling that the first R political statement re: the shooting was “No one can talk about Project 2025 anymore!”

  10. 10.

    Ishiyama

    Members of the leopards eating people’s faces party outraged that leopard tried to eat their leader’s face.

  11. 11.

    hrprogressive

    @moonbat: ​

    Hadn’t seen the second part, but yeah, fuck that.
    We must talk solely about Project 2025. The fact that they don’t want us to talk about it means we must.

    @Urza: ​
     

    This is also fair. The last decade has been batshit to say the least.

  12. 12.

    Suzanne

    @hrprogressive: It doesn’t make any sense. I am far more concerned about swingy-low-info-sometimes voters, though. The “double haters” whose votes — if they vote — often are determined by the pettiest shit. These aren’t committed Never-Trumpers.

  14. 14.

    hrprogressive

    @Suzanne: ​
     

    This is why I hope the Project 2025 talk continues to get pounded into everyone’s heads.

    I don’t care if people hate both men.

    I do care if that hatred allows the theocratic Fascists who want to destroy this country to unwind the republic to suit their needs.

  15. 15.

    Suzanne

    A friend on mine won the internet:

    You could see there was blood coming out of his ear. Blood coming out of his…wherever.

  16. 16.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @canderaid in OP: If I’m going to feel bad for someone it’s the poor schmuck who was bleeding to death behind him while he was striking his Iconic Pose

    This resonates deeply with me. This man knew he was in a crowd. His only thoughts were his ambitions followed by his person.

  17. 17.

    rikyrah

    I mean, look at the videos of the Orange Menace, and when Reagan got shot. If you don’t see a stark difference in the response by the Secret Service😒😒😒

    I mean…I know that the “A” team isn’t with the Orange Menace, but they looked like phucking rejects😒😒

  19. 19.

    Eunicecycle

    @Suzanne: I think you’re right. Didn’t the guy who tried to assassinate Reagan do it to get Jodie Foster’s attention? To a normal thinking person, that’s crazy.

  20. 20.

    Suzanne

    @hrprogressive: I kind of agree? We need to win some amount of those squishy randos, tho. That is the thing that causes me anxiety. The base on both sides is gonna turn out, that’s a given. But that’s not enough for either side to win.

    This is the inescapable math problem.

  21. 21.

    Trivia Man

    @Suzanne: in the picture that shows the actual bullet in flight, you can obviously tell it went in one ear and out the other.

  23. 23.

    hrprogressive

    @Suzanne: ​
     

    My point is, the squishy randos need to be made aware that even if they don’t like Joe Biden, if they don’t vote for him now, it’ll be the last time they ever get to vote for president.

    And they’ll lose overtime pay.

    And any form of family planning.

    And union protections.

    And…

    Etc, etc, etc.

    I didn’t “like” Hillary, but I knew Trump was not an option.

    These people need to understand the same thing.

  24. 24.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Yglesias is, as usual, saying absolutely nothing.

    He always makes it seem like he is part of some sort of correct, reasonable majority on any given issue, when in fact he is a useless turd whose input has never been salient in any context whatsoever.

  25. 25.

    NotMax

    “Did you see the coverage and ratings? Let’s include a sniper in every rally from now on.”
    //

  26. 26.

    Citizen Dave

    @Suzanne: Good one.  I still have not seen any proof of whether the injury was from a bullet or teleprompter glass or something else.  Wikipedia article has weak sources

    Not worried at all about this moving the outcome of voting.  They hit their peak in 2020 (and lost by more).

  27. 27.

    Suzanne

    I will note that my thinking on the election and where the challenges lie is informed by two people. One is AOC, who said that (paraphrasing) our goal shouldn’t be to turn Trump voters to blue voters, but that we should turn non-voters into voters. Fantastic theory, harder in practice. If they liked you, they would already be your voters. So to get them, you either have to have a Johnny Unbeatable candidate, or they have to hate the other candidate so hard that they’re motivated to come out. The other person is Rachel Bitecofer, who notes that elections now are almost entirely won on mobilization. We’ve basically got to remobilize the entire coalition that we had last time, because we won by incredibly slim margins in the swingy states. That’s…. gonna be a heavy lift.

  28. 28.

    Damned as Random

    I’m wondering what the tone will be at the convention this week. I’m sure the martyrdom will be featured,  but will they try to tamp down the violent rhetoric? I’m guessing some speakers will make an effort but it won’t play with the delegates.

  29. 29.

    West of the Rockies

    @Suzanne:

    Word is that Team Trump has crazy-thin GOTV infrastructure established and scant local GOP offices across the nation.

  30. 30.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @sdhays: I don’t think it’s worth spending much time on, but the whole “if he died, the Republican Party would have just pulled a ‘more viable candidate’ out of its fecal-filled arse” is just an absurd level of magical thinking.

    Actually, “magical thinking” is why it would work. The candidate the political equivalent of an Abram Magic Mystery Box filled with what ever unicorn that specific voter imagined.  Meanwhile the press endless songs of grief over their fallen hero would drown out any discussion of the replacement candidates’ positions.

  31. 31.

    Suzanne

    @hrprogressive: Agree…. I am getting the sense, from my very limited vantage point, that people are more likely to be motivated to vote “against Trump” rather than “for Joe”. It affects how we approach conversations.

  32. 32.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @moonbat: The “logic” such as it is boils down to “Scare the hell out of the D voter to the point they concede the election before the first ballot is cast.”

    Well said.

  34. 34.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @rikyrah: Yes, they had Reagan in a car and out of their in seconds. As much as I dislike the Dumb Ass Donny, when in the hell does the SS just say, well it’s over?

  35. 35.

    Math Guy

    @Suzanne: I’ve been working on an inescapable math problem for over 5 years now. None of our politics makes sense to me right now.

  37. 37.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Bitecofer is an astute analyst but saying it’s GOTV (in effect) is basically what we referred to back in the USMC Command & Staff College as A Blinding Flash Of The Obvious.

    It’s always about GOTV and all it’s permutations (meaning obstacles to voting).  This is nothing new.

    When *we* vote (and are able to vote), we win.

    And as noted, we have the money, expertise and experience in GOTV because of the unlevel playing field over decades whereas the bad guys aren’t doing shit at the moment.

  39. 39.

    Suzanne

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: Bitecofer’s point about mobilization is in contrast to persuasion. She believes that there are very few persuadables left. We’re all locked in on our teams now. If she’s right, that means we really can’t afford to lose anybody from the coalition, because there’s very few opportunities to make that up somewhere else.

  40. 40.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Damned as Random: but will they try to tamp down the violent rhetoric?

    They will drown out the violent rhetoric with actual violence.

    I am predicting a cage match to the death between the candidates for the VP position while Trump looks on from a throne. Small animals will be tossed into the howling mob of delegates to consume raw while the announce  proclaims Trump nomination marks a return to traditional family values.

    One can’t scream out death threats when one’s mouth is full of squirrel.

  43. 43.

    Suzanne

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Do you remember on American Gladiators, when the contestants would get into big hamster balls and roll them around and crash into each other? I’d pay money to watch people just lay into JD Vance.

  44. 44.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I am predicting a cage match to the death between the candidates for the VP position while Trump looks on from a throne.

    Batshit Thunderdome where the participants are a cocktail of stupid, evil and nuts.

  50. 50.

    moonbat

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Then like in the boat parades everyone sinks in each other’s wakes and the convention ends in an eternal cycle of recriminations because no one thought to bring life vests. I’d pay-per-view for that.

  51. 51.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Damned as Random: but I’d hate to see him an a swimsuit

    What do you think they will be wearing in the MAGAdome?

    More seriously, it was inevitable that one of the MAGAs was going light up a MAGA rally because it was always heading that way.  As some point fake voilance wouldn’t be enough of a thrill.

  52. 52.

    Ken B

    The thought that keeps coming back to me is, ‘If you thought Trump was unhinged, paranoid, and vengeful before…’

  53. 53.

    ArchTeryx

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: Reminds me all too much of a group Pokemon campaign I’m in, with our player character an overpowered Lucario against three Legendaries in sequence:

    Hestis the Soaring Blaze (Moltres, Burning Temper, not too bright)
    Lucille the Bitter Chill (Arcturio, Cold Cunning, smart and evil)
    Fulga the Screaming Storm (Zapdos, Completely Batshit Crazy).

    Fighting dumb and temperamental is dangerous but doable.
    Fighting smart and evil is harder, but still doable if you don’t fall for her crocodile tears.

    Fighting crazy is a whole other challenge. And right now, we’re facing the equivalent of Fulga in the lead for President. Neither is going to be a particularly fun fight.

  54. 54.

    wjca

    @hrprogressive: We must talk solely about Project 2025. The fact that they don’t want us to talk about it means we must.

    “Solely”?

    Gotta say, it’s a great way for them to get us to stop talking about Dobbs so much.  Get us to focus on something less readily understandable to the average voter.

    Let’s not get sucked in on something quite so obvious.

  55. 55.

    MisterForkbeard

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: Yesterday he was yelling about how the leadership of both parties had failed (Republicans because they’re awful, Dems because they hadn’t… kicked out their nominee and caused a huge amount of chaos?)

    He’s just an intolerable centrist asshole.

  57. 57.

    hrprogressive

    @wjca: ​
     

    If Project 2025 comes to fruition, not only do we not get Roe back, we get Gilead in it’s place.

    I understand what you’re saying, but Project 2025 is so damn bad, it really would be on the tip of my tongue 24/7 for any voters I care to try and motivate.

    There’s 900 pages destroying everything non-Fascist people care about. Pick a topic, find the pages, quote ad nauseum till people Get It.

  58. 58.

    wjca

    @hrprogressive: I understand what you’re saying, but Project 2025 is so damn bad, it really would be on the tip of my tongue 24/7 for any voters I care to try and motivate.

    I completely agree with you about how bad Project 2025 is.  I just question the efficacy and efficiency of trying to get it across to the average voter.  Especially low information voters.  Eyes on the prize!

  59. 59.

    Mai Naem mobile

    I think the shooting is a negative for TFG.He won’t be able to control himself playing martyr.   I think it will remind people of how crazy stuff was when TFG was in office and the vast majority of people don’t want crazytown. I’m not even talking about people who lived through the 60s and early 70s with the multiple assassinations and assassination attempts.

  60. 60.

    LanceThruster

    My first instinct regarding this is to go at it big picture. See the whole forest. The duopoly drives many people bonkers. The try to have any meaningful influence whatsoever in a representative democracy is tough. I’d want several responses implemented immediately. Political parties are private corporations if I’m not mistaken. Immediately quit providing any funds for those who do not run their primaries as ranked choice voting, But they’re a private entity, free to run it as they choose! Fine, they can foot the bill themselves. Those parties participating in the established manner, become the choices that make it to the general election ballot, and something can be devised so their own uopoly non-compliant primary person can be shoe-horned onto the ballot  before the general.

    Secondly, every election also includes a survey of views, the questions and multiple choice answers being drafted in a rational manner like when deciding voting boundaries is not just a naked power grab. Finally, have the beginning of any election process start with a matching  listing of issues for all registered candidates.  The can choose to answer or ignore any issue they want, in addition to a mechanism to provide their plans/views on anything they felt was omitted in the topics provided. Done without attribution of a name, picture or party. Maybe the answers themselves might give a clue, and maybe the essay part would confirm it, but they still get listed as the positions exclusively, and not who holds then. Since it’s not an election at that point but a survey of support for various positions, the means of polling the response is a mechanism to vote once on your reactions tied to your voter ID on the platform you choose. Online, mail-in, etc. Those gaining the most support are guaranteed a spot on the debate stage with whatever cutoff is determined. Notice no campaign money is involved yet – level playing field. Candidates do not require a war chest at this point.

    Additionally, all eligible candidates even if not making the main debate stage, will be supplied a list of the debate topic to be covered with a few specifics on how deeply they plan to delve into it. Candidates will write out their answers if the choose on the pre-form, allowing them in the live debate to reference it so as not to bore people to tears with the wonky stuff, like for instance, “I support a ceasefire, if you check my preform, you’ll see i’ve laid out a plan where… ” Debate moderators could have questions tied to pre-form… “You said this, where you opponent said that on the issue. Considering this history, how do you square that with…”

    Debate programs will also have a program to follow where those not making the main stage can critique main stage statements and/or contrast their own positions. Maybe that same survey mechanism to adjust the participants on the main stage. IRV isn’t unreasonable for the general either, but at least it expands the primary choices. Also, even the general ballot includes a survey. It would nice to vote for someone for one issue, but still be able to weigh in with something like “I don’t support genocide in any fashion even though some candidates do.” It’s not binding, but at least a winner can not declare, “I won so everyone supports my position on genocide.”

    That’s what I’d do, if I ran the zoo. The system in place now sucks eggs. Makes people crazy because they feel powerless.

  61. 61.

    No One You Know

    @wjca: I’ve seen very understandable stickers/ yard signs somewhere. I’ll try to trace my steps.

    Also,  I was surprised not to see https://www.turnoutpac.org/

    In the postcards list. They’re big, provide postcards and address lists and 3 tested messages. They also caution against known turn-offs they’ve found in their focus groups

    MASS MAILING OCT.  15TH. The cards go out just when the voters should be thinking about elections, and the lists are infrequent Democratic and Democratic- leaning voters.

  62. 62.

    Shalimar

    @rikyrah: And now the father has to live the rest of his life without his son because of his gift.  This is what gun culture produces.

  63. 63.

    Shalimar

    @wjca: The only good thing about Project 2025 is that there’s a destructive goal in it to appeal to every single person you know.  Find what they don’t want destroyed and point out they will lose it if they vote for Republicans.

  64. 64.

    Roberto el oso

    It will be fascinating to see the RNC try and pivot away from violence when one of their scheduled speakers is that smirking psychopathic prick Kyle Rittenhouse. Awkward.

  65. 65.

    Subsole

    @khead:

    Yep.

    These people are going to overplay this. They always do.

    The main threat is making sure the networks don’t bully us into being quiet about Project 25.

  67. 67.

    Subsole

    @hrprogressive:

    I’d say gutting overtime, hiking taxes on anyone making under 200k, destroying womens’ autonomy, and killing veterans’ benefits would be on the top 4.

  68. 68.

    NobodySpecial

    Yeah, it’s still all about turnout. Democrats have a turnout machine, fully oiled and funded, and a lot of it’s upper leadership have a decade plus of experience.

    The GOP in several states don’t have a functioning state party. Like, Florida DNC dysfunction level. There’s no money, no experienced operators, no GOTV apparatus. These are fundamental structural weaknesses that can’t be handwaved away by polls or op-ed columns. They simply don’t have a ground game.

  72. 72.

    Chris Johnson

    @West of the Rockies: On the subject of no GOP offices, no GOP budgets, and Trump’s team taking away all their phony-baloney jobs (hence, no GOP offices)

    You don’t have to believe everything moonbat liberals say about Donald Trump, to not trust him.

    It is possible to look at the spectacle of all this, not understand it, and just come away NOT TRUSTING Donald Trump.

    The desperation of how they’re escalating, the way in which now right wingers MUST not only believe he’s sent by the same God he’s shit at being reverent to, but also that the feckless libs executed a giant scheme to murder him and bury him in the basement of Comet Ping Pong… it’s like, they’re demanding more and more of their base. Not just money. Now their people must believe all the wild stories and be ready to ‘fight fight fight’ the doddery old man acting normal, and they seem real happy about the horrifying shit they’re saying, and it seems like a big ask. Do we HAVE to run around with AR15s fighting liberals? Can’t we just… grill?

    You don’t have to trust everything Donald Trump says. Sometimes shit just happens. Just because somebody is making up escalating narratives demanding outrageous things from the Republican base does not mean the base all trust him or the narrative spinners.

    Just because the used car salesman says the lemon car has actually got a Ferrari engine and is made of gold, does not mean you are obligated to go ‘oh HEY! Well, that would be way more valuable than just a boring old car, and therefore I cannot possibly reject this offer!’

  74. 74.

    Matt McIrvin

    @LanceThruster: While I *like* ranked choice voting, I am skeptical about it being any kind of panacea. The people who currently complain about voting for the lesser evil will just switch to complaining that their third-party candidate didn’t win, and spend election campaigns pushing boycotts of the second-choice vote.

    In a multiparty parliamentary system, they can vote for the party they truly like, and I *know* from direct observation that they just bellyache about the need to compromise with a milquetoast majority coalition.

    The fundamental problem for people with ambitious progressive ideologies is that most people never agree with them. They might agree with SOME aspects of the program, but not with the whole program. So you end up always having to settle for half a loaf, even in the best case, and that drives progressives up the wall unless they’re extremely long-game people.

  75. 75.

    Shalimar

    @Subsole: All excellent choices.  I would add 2 big ones for specific groups.

    They would significantly lower medicare and social security.  This would be a massive hit for seniors if you can show them the language in 2025 or Trump’s 47 plan on his website.

    Ending birthright citizenship and deporting people who were citizens until now would be a huge blow to the Spanish-speaking community Trump has been advertising heavily towards.

  76. 76.

    Geminid

    @Matt McIrvin: In any event, US primaries are not conducted by parties but instead under state laws.

    This is also the case with Ranked Choice Voting. This is a good thing, I think, because we get to see how well they work and any unexpected consequences. Peesononally, I favor runoffs but this is a minority view.

    Alaska’s new system intrigues me, and my hunch is that it will spread. Alaska has an an all-comer “jungle”primary. Then the top four finishers advance to a ranked-choice runoff in Novemeber.

  77. 77.

    bbleh

    Sympathy for the bystander who got shot and his family.

    (And a bit for the shooter’s mom, who presumably wasn’t the one who left the rifle around where the kid could grab it and now must be like … ???!!!)

    And yeah, some residual outrage that anyone (in this case the shooter’s dad) can own a rifle like this and anyone (an obviously emotionally unstable 20-y/o) can walk around with it, perfectly legally.

    Otherwise, get back to work.  Donate, volunteer, vote!  The rest is just wankery.

  78. 78.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Geminid:

    This is also the case with Ranked Choice Voting. This is a good thing, I think, because we get to see how well they work and any unexpected consequences. Personally, I favor runoffs but this is a minority view.

    Alaska’s new system intrigues me, and my hunch is that it will spread. Alaska has an an all-comer “jungle”primary

    Denver’s an interesting study in all of this.  We technically have non-partisan races but everybody knows a candidates underlying party affiliation although it’s often tough to differentiate from them a policy standpoint.

    It’s a jungle primary that goes to a run off if nobody gets 50% and one thing most people across the spectrum here agree is that everybody hates run offs, particularly on the mayoral side because we end up with two candidates that massively suck in a variety of ways.  It’s less an issue with the city council races but still an issue.

    There’s an effort to do something along the lines of Alaska/ranked choice but nothing’s been passed yet.  I’m like Matt in that I don’t see ranked choice as some miracle, perfect voting system but it’s worth trying because everybody hates what we’re currently using.

  79. 79.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Bit of personal anecdotal evidence.

    I the on line role playing game I run in second life  we have a conservative player whose on the MAGA spectrum (anti vaccer and so on). She said nothing about the shooting completely focused on the game.

    Afterwards I went to other group event and the only comment I heard was “I bet there are going to be some really sick costumes this Halloween”

    As Cris said “Do we HAVE to run around with AR15s fighting liberals? Can’t we just… grill?” seems to be the reaction from a lot of conservatives.

  80. 80.

    Matt McIrvin

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: There’s also the question of *which* election reform to pick. I know a lot of voting reform advocates don’t like the specific form of ranked choice that usually gets instituted (IRV) because they’ve got some OTHER kind of ranked choice system that they say is better for complicated reasons. And I recently saw someone denouncing ranked choice as a stalking horse to kill *his* favored reform, which was Georgia-style runoff elections (with an implication that the ranked choice side was somehow racist, too). It gives me a headache.

  81. 81.

    Matt McIrvin

    (Why, it’s almost as if people who are trying to reform the voting system to make it friendlier to small minority factions are instinctively averse to picking a side and running with it!)

  82. 82.

    Geminid

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: New York City adopted rank-chooce primaries in 2021. Voters had 5 ranked. Eric Adams had a big lead in first coice votes with 33%. When all ranked votes were counted Kathy Garcia trailed by only 8,000 as I recall.

    Under NYC’s previous sytem, there would have been a runoff because Adams did not clear 40%.

  83. 83.

    Geminid

    @Matt McIrvin: Georgia’s runoff system put Jon Ossoff in the Senate. Ossoff trailed Perdue in the November, but a Libertarian helped hold Perdue just below 50%. Many predicted Perdue would win the January 5 runoff because historically Republican runoff turnout was better than that of the Democrats. This time though, Democrats flipped the script. Their GOTV effort held their dropoff to ~ 100,000, while the Republican dropoff was well over 200,000.

  84. 84.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Geminid:

    Ah, that’s right.  Adams is hated in NYC and I recall some babble about he’s the result of ranked choice, or something.  Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

    This group, admittedly with an agenda, did an exhaustive study of ranked choice in the NYC 2023 municipal elections.  It doesn’t really help somebody make up their mind about the approach:

    https://fairvote.org/report/rcv-in-nyc-report-2023/

  86. 86.

    Geminid

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: Adams still might have won a runoff against former Sanitation Commissioner Kathy Garcia. But the dynamic of a runoff is different, and Garcia the technocrat might have beaten Adams the showboat.

    But we live in an impatient age,and for better or worse, people will choose the convenience of ranked-choice over runoffs.

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