Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

This really is a full service blog.

Disappointing to see gov. newsom with his finger to the wind.

You are either for trump or for democracy. Pick one.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

This fight is for everything.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

We can show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

He really is that stupid.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

Jesus watching the most hateful people claiming to be his followers

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Monday Morning Open Thread: Trying to Be Serious During A *Silly* Silly Season

Monday Morning Open Thread: Trying to Be Serious During A *Silly* Silly Season

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My new mantra: “We have a good person in the Oval Office. Let’s keep it that way.”

 
Next up: The big conference, where the whole world is watching!

… The Communist Party’s 205-member Central Committee is holding its third plenum, or the third plenary session of a five-year term that started in 2022. This year’s meeting was expected to be held last year, but was delayed.

Historically, this third meeting has emerged as one at which major economic and policy decisions have been set, though not every time. Analysts say the plenum often sets longer-term directions impacting the economy…

Yeah, okay, I’ll get serious… Today, in the fear that made Milwaukee famous:


No Repub can be separated from their emotional support weapons… “Gov. Tony Evers seeks to bar firearms near RNC but the move is unlikely to succeed”:

… The request was made to the U.S. Secret Service, which would relay the governor’s concerns to the Republican National Committee, the source said.

But the request appears likely to go nowhere. The power to ban firearms in the security “footprint” outside the credentials-only “hard” security zone seems to rest with the state, not the Secret Service, the RNC or the City of Milwaukee.…

A short-lived effort at City Hall to ban guns within the security footprint failed because local governments like Milwaukee are precluded under state law from enacting gun regulations more stringent than the state’s. Wisconsin allows both concealed carry and open carry.

Instead, the city ended up with a city ordinance banning a host of items within the security footprint but allowing most firearms in the area…

Guns will not be allowed inside Fiserv Forum or other buildings where RNC events are set to take place, or in the “hard perimeter” around the convention, where credentials are required for entry, aside from those possessed by working law enforcement officers, according to a Secret Service spokesperson.

Were I in Milwaukee, I’d spend this week in my own home, well away from the Finserv. There shouldn’t be trouble inside the ‘hard perimeter’ — barring jumpy security agents panicking over a dropped mic or a popping balloon — but the area just outside that perimeter will be full of gun-humping paranoids looking for any excuse to demonstrate Their Second Amendment Rights, preferably on some innocent bystander filthy Democrat lie-bril, especially if that unperson has purple hair or a skintone darker than a sheet of copier paper.

Because I am not a good person, I second this emotion…

like, look, man, political violence is bad and it’s bad for everyone, but if it turns out that a violent reactionary boog tried to kill king chud, well, i am going to fix a cocktail and think about all of the things the GOP could’ve done over the last 20 years to avoid this kind of outcome.

— GOLIKEHELLMACHINE (@golikehellmachine.com) Jul 14, 2024 at 2:06 AM

i don’t want to see trump assassinated, i want to see him imprisoned after due course, but these fucking murderous clowns want to murder each other and i am hard-pressed to argue that our whole country would be worse off if they did.

— GOLIKEHELLMACHINE (@golikehellmachine.com) Jul 14, 2024 at 2:09 AM

Reader Interactions

190Comments

  1. 1.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Note that guns and ammo are not allowed anywhere near the convention center where the fascist rallies will be held this week . The prefer keep them in schools, churches, and casually laying around the house where they belong. //
    Also too, if anybody’s in Milwaukee this week, head to the Uptowner Bar at Humboldt and Center where they have a sign outside that reads:

    Horrible City Welcomes RNC Facsists

    https://twitter.com/TheMerkelator/status/1812647940264988973

  3. 3.

    hrprogressive

    I understand why Biden talked about “unity”, but I wish Democrats of all stripes would stop talking about it the way they did.

    I do not condone the idea of using political violence to achieve one’s goals.

    But I will not seek “unity” with literal Fascists.

    This country needs all non-Fascists to unite against the Fascist Republican Party, and to do so via electoral means while we still can.

    Of course, a guy like Joe is never gonna say that.

    But I damn well will.

    Fuck the GOP.
    Fuck Convicted Felon Donald Trump.
    Fuck Project 2025.

    Here is hoping the voters get the hint and kick them all out of office in 4 months.

    Hoping. But understanding nothing is guaranteed.

  4. 4.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    What have we come to where a man can’t go to political convention, denounce his political opponents as vermin who must be exterminated, and not have to worry about a gun fight breaking out?

  5. 5.

    Ksmiami

    Rephrased from my post below. The best way forward for the Dems is to blast the GOP and Trump as agents of violence, chaos and disorder. Because that is what a second Trump term means.

  6. 6.

    eclare

    I am furious that the head of MSNBC thought that Morning Joe would be too…something.  No Morning Joe today.

  7. 7.

    Ksmiami

    @hrprogressive: exactly. These people have no place in civilized society. I will not unify with those that want to kill my  friends and rob my kids of their rights.

  11. 11.

    Suzanne

    these fucking murderous clowns want to murder each other and i am hard-pressed to argue that our whole country would be worse off if they did.

    No, they don’t want to murder each other. They want to murder us.

  13. 13.

    Trivia Man

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: And if you need spices, support Penzys. Their storefront has a sign very near the convention that says “welcome future fake electors :) “

    Their appeal to republicans on the website is thoughtful and sincere.

  17. 17.

    Trivia Man

    Im a very casual soccer* fan bur I watched both games yesterday. Very entertaining and even to this noob the skill difference at that level is clear. Crisp passing, stamina, quick reactions… very athletic.

    *The English coined the term from Association football to Assoc to Soccer… they have only themselves to blame.

    Second note: the Australian Rules rulebook predates soccer, rugby, football, and all the rest making it the oldest (currently played) codified version of foot + ball sports.

  18. 18.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Karen S.: Ritterhouse already went there, the only way to top Rifferhouse in the who is the biggest Red Hat of all contest is taking out other Red Hats.

  20. 20.

    Chris Johnson

    @eclare: Oh, interesting! Has the Morning Joe show been talking sense, even a little? Do you figure they’re going to be happy at getting pulled off the air? Are they getting fired? I should follow ’em on Twitter if that happens, they might be real mad :)

  22. 22.

    Elizabelle

    That’s an excellent point.  We don’t want to see Trump assassinated.  We want to see him imprisoned.

    Good comeback to anyone who wants to go with the “liberals are violent” bullshit.

  24. 24.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @eclare:

    If it’s any consolation, I expect Joe and Mika aren’t real happy about it either.

    I, for one, am thoroughly bored with the wall-to-wall coverage and the hysterical ain’t-it-awful rhetoric. There has to be something else of interest going on in the world (and no, I’m not talking about the RNC, that’s just more of the same).

  25. 25.

    artem1s

    A short-lived effort at City Hall to ban guns within the security footprint failed because Local governments like Milwaukee are precluded under state law from enacting gun regulations more stringent than the state’s. Wisconsin allows both concealed carry and open carry.

    well, there’s his out if he wants it. he can claim he won’t be safe in Milwaukee and spend the entire week at his trashy hotel in Chicago zooming in on a giant screen like Big Brother. Eek! At this point I thinks its 50/50 he shows up in person for the nomination or he zooms in from the 19th hole at some high GOP country club outside Chicago.

  26. 26.

    Jackie

    @eclare:

    I am furious that the head of MSNBC thought that Morning Joe would be too…something.  No Morning Joe today.

    Me, too. I want my MSNBC back! Sheesh, you’d think TCFG was on his death bed instead of getting ready to PARTY in Milwaukee!

  27. 27.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Suzanne:

    No, they don’t want to murder each other. They want to murder us.

    This. They’d probably start killing each other after they got done with us and it didn’t fix any of the stuff they were aggrieved over, but we wouldn’t be around to gloat.

    ETA: Looks like plenty of others beat me to it.

  29. 29.

    matt

    People say Biden isn’t great at speaking, but the Republicans are accusing him of being so persuasive he’s getting them to shoot at each other.

  31. 31.

    schrodingers_cat

    OT but related. I found an op-ed in the Indian online portal Wire.com comparing Biden to Xi and Putin as old men who don’t want give up power. These weak kneed fuckers who want to take Biden down make us look bad on the world stage too.

  34. 34.

    Caveatimperator

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Putin has been in power for over twenty years.

    Xi has been in power for over ten.

    Biden would have been a frontrunner for President in 2016, but he chose not to run.

    And no way in hell is he going to try any kind of stunt to hold onto power after 2028.

    Not the same at all.

  35. 35.

    Another Scott

    Paul Bassett Davies
    @[email protected]

    Then they came for the sarcastic people and I was like oh great that’s exactly what we need right now well done to all concerned.

    Jul 15, 2024, 07:10 AM

    Have a good week, fellow sarcastic people.

    (via mastodon.social/explore)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  36. 36.

    Soprano2

    I’m concerned that elected Democrats will start pulling their punches about Project 2025, and just tell people to “Google it” rather than talking about what’s actually in it. It’s fine to tell people that – AFTER you’ve detailed some of its contents. Don’t back off Democrats, talking about it is effective with voters. Don’t let the “mean girls” in the press intimidate you into backing down.

  38. 38.

    Chris Johnson

    @hrprogressive: Normies are normies. We’re not normies any more than the Project 2025 fascists are.

    I’m very pleased to see that Joe Biden’s team is handling all this correctly and it increases my confidence in him going forward.

    You’ve GOTTA call for unity. He’s the President. The question is do you trust him? That’s really fundamental. It’s going to be an election on trust and who is kept away from the polls by their own people being too discourse-poisoned to get out and vote, to GOTV.

    Joe’s calling for unity and has thousands of Dem offices all over the place.

    The Trump side are talking like crazy people, just wild shit everywhere, and they’re taking all the GOTV money and giving it directly to Trump so he can either pay legal bills and fines for his crimes, or send it to Putin so Putin can buy missiles to kill Ukrainians with.

    I like our chances with this.

    I don’t trust Donald Trump or his most ardent supporters. His OWN supporters trust him so little that when he zigged, one of them literally shot him. If he zags, those ones might not shoot but there could be others that do, or that stay home because it’s all too depressing.

    Normies don’t like chaos and perpetual fear. They just want all the drama to be over. It’s very important that Biden do as he is doing: call for unity, and act like the normal person he is.

  40. 40.

    moonbat

    Funny how the GQP refuses to acknowledge that the call is coming from inside the house.

    We are not the party of AR humping weirdos. That would be you. For sheer self preservation purposes you’d think they’d figure that out and act accordingly.

    It’s kind of a terrifyingly interesting sociological experiment at this point. After embracing the worst impulses of its members for more than a generation, now they cannot put the genie back in the bottle. If they disavow the worst of their objectives (nationwide abortion ban, Project 2025) their “base” will come after them with the 2nd amendment solutions they have insisted are as American as apple pie.

  42. 42.

    Soprano2

    @matt: He’s both a genius mastermind who tried to assassinate TCFG and a doddering, dementia-ridden old man according to them. No, it makes absolutely no sense.

  43. 43.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Caveatimperator: I know that. You know that. But it is in the DNA of the global left to hate on America.

    This is what I said on Twitter.

    One of them is not like the other two. Biden came out of retirement to save the nation from incipient fascism. After neonazis marched with their tiki torches in Charlottesville, VA. Biden is the duly elected President. This is just lazy false equivalence.

  44. 44.

    Caveatimperator

    @moonbat:

    The Democrats have been given opportunities to embrace the nuttier spheres of the left, and almost every time said no.

    One of my favorite examples was the period in the 2010s or so when there was still a large contingent of left-leaning antivaxers. During the period California had a measles outbreak concentrated in wealthy liberal crunchy suburbs, the state made the vaccine laws stricter.

  45. 45.

    Chris Johnson

    @Ksmiami: Ya know? You do that. I’ve never liked it but if you’re in Miami I really can’t blame you. Go ahead and blast the fascists rhetorically, if you’re a Floridian you’ve got a front-row seat and every excuse to be pissed.

    The thing is, for people who don’t have a front row seat, it’s pretty important to present them with a choice between a normal person and the freaking shit-flinging monkeys that are the Republican Party’s brain trust right now. It’s important to not play along with the narrative that we are all screeching fanatics freaking out just like each other, that we are all hysterical revolutionaries, and so the only difference is the color of the face makeup, a nick on the ear, and whether you want to be served by a vigorous or feeble crazy screaming leader.

    Citation needed, man. We’re literally not the insurrectionists here. We’re just trying to keep the fucking lights on, and we don’t want any of this. Not wanting this does not make us ‘the same as the fascists’.

    And us not being the same as them is actually very important. And that means we don’t act like that, we stop THEM from acting like that, through our democratic system, and then through the justice system when their acting like that proves to be criminal as it so often does.

    This is not that complicated.

  47. 47.

    trnc

    The Jan 6 reference tonight was a colossal mistake. Taking an event that polarizes Americans and putting into a unity speech made the whole effort fall flat.

    They’re just mad that every bit of violent rhetoric by republicans since 2016 is getting re-aired and they don’t have anything to rebut it with.

  48. 48.

    TBone

     

    The martyrdom on MSNBC continues apace.  Counter measure of the Day (so far):

    https://digbysblog.net/2024/07/14/toning-down-the-rhetoric/

    I’m gonna text these out as video postcards in an effort to promote gun control NOW.

    Also, Abortion Every Day is good:

    https://jessica.substack.com/p/idaho-women-flown-out-weekly-for

    It’s about much more than Idaho.

    My foot is still on the same go pedal as last week.  I’m not letting up out of sympathy or comity or bringing down the temperature, or whatever.  We didn’t start the fire.

  50. 50.

    Another Scott

    @Soprano2:

    Republicans don’t lie to be believed. They lie to be repeated.

    – LOLGOP

    The point is to divide people up into Us and Them. Our tribe is good, their tribe is evil. You must stay in your tribe – being an outcast is a fate worse than death. Etc.

    Something something you can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.

    Reality always wins eventually. We have to work the levers of reality to move things forward, while encouraging others to leave their stupid cult.

    Eyes on the prizes.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  51. 51.

    Betty Cracker

    Trumpy House Rep Byron Donalds (R-FL) was on CNN this morning, and he sounded so conciliatory that at first I didn’t recognize him. (He’s an ultra-MAGA asshole normally.)

    Trump gave an interview to a right-wing outlet in which he said he tore up an allegedly “tough” convention speech and replaced it with one that calls for “unity.” Donald Fucking Trump calling for unity!

    Also, several intemperate tweets issued by spokespeople/caddies, etc., in the wake of the incident were quietly removed.

    i don’t know if they’ll be able to contain The Beast and his rabid henchmen, but it sure seems like the campaign is trying that. It’s a smart play because that’s their best chance to intimidate Dems and make them pull their punches, which would be a disaster, imo.

  52. 52.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Elizabelle:

    That’s an excellent point. We don’t want to see Trump assassinated. We want to see him imprisoned.

    Four years ago during the 2020 election, BCrack had this to say about the entire Trump clan and it’s still good today:

    Voting these grifting ghouls out won’t be nearly enough. I want them to have to flee the goddamned country, change their names and undergo reconstructive surgery.

    As Frank Coniff said on twitter over the weekend, if Felonious D had been where he currently belongs, in prison, none of this would have happened.

  53. 53.

    Chris Johnson

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: I’ve already seen video of Proud Boys and some other right-wing sect fighting each other in the streets. They absolutely won’t wait, they absolutely are beginning to fight each other already.

    It’s a bit like in Terry Pratchett: a wizard, in shark-infested waters, will always consider other wizards to be the greater threat.

    These right wing maniacs are so conspiracy brained that they are already turning on each other for the slightest reasons. It’s how they work. Assuming the right-wing Trump shooter was legit and not some weird stunt (I can’t see how, but I don’t pretend to) it strongly implies he thought Donald Trump himself had schismed from whatever his own crazy right wing politics were. And so at least one right wing nut behaved like Donald Trump was the biggest threat to conservatism. If it’s not just fake that’s an existence proof that they’ve got a problem, and it won’t go away.

  54. 54.

    Old Man Shadow

    We have normalized this kind of violence. College students, high school students, elementary school babies, movie goers, church goers, concert attendees, partners in abusive relationships…

    We’ve normalized young, angry men buying a military grade weapon and taking their anger out on crowds. We’ve normalized the ritual murders seeking name recognition.

    They happen every damn day.

    And it’s mostly Republicans who refuse to do anything to stop it.

  55. 55.

    trnc

    @hrprogressive: ​
     

    I understand why Biden talked about “unity”, but I wish Democrats of all stripes would stop talking about it the way they did.

    I do not condone the idea of using political violence to achieve one’s goals.

    But I will not seek “unity” with literal Fascists.

    Biden is not looking for a way to compromise with fascists. First, he can’t say “unity, but only for some people,” and second, getting non-fascists to tell their fascist relatives and friends to fucking knock it off is a worthy goal. No need to make the perfect the enemy of the good.

  56. 56.

    Chris Johnson

    @Soprano2: I don’t think they will. It’s gonna work well for us to actually talk about issues. We totally should talk about Project 2025 and not want any part of it. People in general should not want any part of it. That’s what voting’s for! We get to register our opinion on the matter, at the end of the day.

    Some of the noisier right wingers want stuff that’s way out of line. It doesn’t make me equally crazy to not want that. It doesn’t make me some opposite day, equally deranged madman. ‘Nope’ is not that radical a statement, even if it’s an all caps NOPE.

  58. 58.

    Chris

    @hrprogressive:

    I understand why Biden talked about “unity”, but I wish Democrats of all stripes would stop talking about it the way they did.

    Feels odd to be agreeing with Erik Loomis these days, but I think he summed the shooting pretty well over the weekend: nobody cares.  And that’s certainly been my experience.  Sure, I’ve heard from plenty of liberals who are unhappy or worried about the shooting, but it’s strictly because they’re afraid it’ll boost Trump’s electoral chances.  Nobody I’ve met on our side of the aisle can even be bothered to pretend to care that this presidential candidate being dead would be any kind of loss as a matter of principle.

    Which is actually incredible in historical terms.  As late as George W. Bush, this would not have been true: sure, there’d have been plenty of liberals saying “too bad he missed,” but there’d have been plenty more pushing back in outrage and telling us that this kind of behavior is never acceptable.  As late as the Trump presidency itself, would this still have been true?  Maybe.  But after 1/6?  Nobody cares.  Nobody can even summon up the energy to pretend to care.

    Any notion of red and blue America being anything but two mutually hostile nations is dead.  Which sounds like a sad thing to say, but I honestly can’t say I’m even sad about it.  If anything, it’s long overdue.

  59. 59.

    Another Scott

    southpaw
    @nycsouthpaw
    12h

    Demanding that certain acts of political violence be rejected by all in the name of unity, while another act of political violence not be mentioned because it “polarizes Americans” (i.e., is still embraced by Republicans) gives the whole wretched game away.

    Ben Tribbett
    @notlarrysabato
    12h

    The Jan 6 reference tonight was a colossal mistake. Taking an event that polarizes Americans and putting into a unity speech made the whole effort fall flat.

    Jul 15, 2024 · 1:18 AM UTC

    I think nycsouthpaw is exactly right here.

    NotLarrySabato is pretty good at Virginia politics. Most of the time. But more than once he has been mind-numbingly bad in his quick hot takes. I think this is one of those times.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  60. 60.

    trnc

    @Suzanne: No, they don’t want to murder each other. They want to murder us.

    True, but I’d say the shooting attempt by a republican gun nut begs for an asterisk on that statement.

  61. 61.

    Chris Johnson

    @moonbat:If they disavow the worst of their objectives (nationwide abortion ban, Project 2025) their “base” will come after them with the 2nd amendment solutions they have insisted are as American as apple pie.

    What do you mean ‘will’ come, moonbat? ;)

    This is why unity matters. If we’re gonna be all ban-assault-weapons-like-that-used-on-Trump about it, it’s important that we mean it, and that we are also protecting them in the bargain. We’re not proposing ‘we should be safe and peaceful, oh but you assholes should all be shot’. No, NOBODY should be shot. Hell, you can be a massive criminal and that’s what jail is for. We even are known to oppose capital punishment for massive criminals, of course we don’t want the assholes to be shot. We live in a society.

  62. 62.

    Soprano2

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t think they’ll be able to keep it up very long, because the base won’t stand for it. The base wants blood, even more now that they’ve convinced themselves that doddering old dementia patient/criminal mastermind Joe Biden orchestrated an assassination attempt on their cult leader.

  63. 63.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @trnc: ​
      We always need to remember that most political statements aren’t aimed at the type of people who read political blogs. For the most part, we are already onside. They aim at squishy supporters and persuadables.

  64. 64.

    Eolirin

    @Betty Cracker: If the shooter was acting because he felt The Donald was going soft, doing that will only further inflame that part of the base.

    It’s their best play here, because the swing voters and independents don’t like violence. But it isn’t without risks to their electoral coalition.

  65. 65.

    Another Scott

    @trnc: Biden’s job in the speech last night was to be the “father of the country” telling everyone to calm down and cut it out.  It’s an important message right now.  He – as the presiddent – is the only person who can do that.  He did that.

    It will appeal to people who want to return to something like normal politics.

    And he also said that politics is important as it will determine the coming future of the country and the world.  That people need to pay attention to what both teams are saying and doing.

    And people need to vote.

    It was a good message, well delivered.

    The rest of us need to do the work to create the future we want.  No One Weird Trick.  No shortcuts.  Nobody else doing the work for us.  We have to do it.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  67. 67.

    Soprano2

    @Chris Johnson: I guess I worry when I see things like some anonymous Democrat saying “We just have to tell people to Google Project 2025 now”, implying that they have to quit talking about it or they’ll be accused of trying to get TCFG killed. After seeing the two week freakout we just went through I can’t help but be concerned about how they’re going to react to this. I’m afraid they’ll pull their punches because they’re afraid someone in the press will be mean to them.

  69. 69.

    trnc

    @Chris Johnson: The Trump side are talking like crazy people, just wild shit everywhere, and they’re taking all the GOTV money and giving it directly to Trump so he can either pay legal bills and fines for his crimes,

    I’ve seen this before, and it gives me some hope that we can really drive the conversation with ads about DT’s guilt over the next 4 months, but do we actually know there’s no GOTV effort or are we assuming DT is siphoning up the money? Don’t election laws restrict the use of donations?

  70. 70.

    Eolirin

    @trnc: GOTV is being wholely outsourced to other groups to set up. There are like zero campaign offices set up by the campaign as of right now.

    There will be PACs running ad buys. Even as the campaign does very little.

    None of this stuff is supposed to be able to be coordinated by the campaign, but you know they’re going to be breaking those laws.

  71. 71.

    Another Scott

    @trnc: The big asterisk, I think, is that they argue that he’s their candidate so they’re paying for lawyers to support their candidate.  So, [wave hands wildly] it’s a legitimate campaign expense.

    And in normal times that makes sense.  We don’t want crazy yahoos filing a bazillion lawsuits against our candidates and not being able to mount a defense, either.  Now, though…  :-/

    IANAL.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  72. 72.

    lashonharangue

    I completely get that people here are calling out the hypocrisy of the right about political violence.  I’d like to suggest that everyone (on both sides) is assuming facts not in evidence about this shooting. What has been published so far about the shooter is more consistent with a mass shooting incident than a targeted assassination.  When one of these young white males shoots up their high school or a shopping mall we call it a mass shooting – not school violence or mall violence. Why automatically treat it differently if there is a politician involved?  I recommend this long interview for a take that may be different from what you might see in the MSM and x. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8xseBOQRGE

  74. 74.

    Chris

    @Old Man Shadow:

    Right.  I mean, what the fuck does anybody want from us?  We live in a world where the response to every murder with a gun is “it’s too soon to politicize this tragedy by talking about how we might avoid it in the future” and “guns are important because turning to them when you feel oppressed by your government is a totally normal and appropriate thing to do.”  The first thing was always complete bullshit, as we’re reminded every time the guy with the gun turns out to have been a Muslim.  As for the second thing, hey, congratulations, people listened!

  75. 75.

    Belafon

    @Soprano2: If you read through most of the threads on twitter and bsky, most Democrats are all going “It’s not good that someone tried to kill him, but he’s still a fascist.” I would say the only people who are trying to back off that probably wanted Biden to back out of the race.

  76. 76.

    The Thin Black Duke

    After the RNC, the attempted assassination will be old news. I’m confident the GOP, as usual, will double down and dial the lunacy up to ’11’. The echo chamber is a lunatic asylum now, and normies are going to be horrified.

  77. 77.

    lowtechcyclist

    @moonbat: ​
     

    Funny how the GQP refuses to acknowledge that the call is coming from inside the house.

    That would involve admitting they’d been wrong, so that’s right out.

    We are not the party of AR humping weirdos. That would be you. For sheer self preservation purposes you’d think they’d figure that out and act accordingly.

    Nope, gotta blame the libs. Anything that’s gone wrong, it’s the libs’ fault.

    It’s kind of a terrifyingly interesting sociological experiment at this point. After embracing the worst impulses of its members for more than a generation, now they cannot put the genie back in the bottle. If they disavow the worst of their objectives (nationwide abortion ban, Project 2025) their “base” will come after them with the 2nd amendment solutions they have insisted are as American as apple pie.

    For nearly half a century, from Nixon to Dubya, they managed to be racists and sexists, but not say the quiet parts out loud in order to maintain a veneer of respectability. Then Trump was openly racist, sexist, misogynist, and won the 2016 nomination with ease, and the ‘pussy tape’ didn’t do him in because his supporters already knew that’s who he was.

    There’s no getting this genie back in the bottle. If we had an honest media, even normies would be aware of how stark the differences are between the Dems and the GOP, and that today’s GOP is all about who they hate and want to do harm to. And as a result, support for the GOP would shrink over time.

    Even now, it’s hard for me to believe that the GOP could top 40% in a national election if the media reported honestly on the GOP. But it can and will in November because the media have spent the past eight years soft-pedaling what Trump and his henchmen are all about.

  78. 78.

    Chris Johnson

    @Soprano2: I know one thing I had to deal with was learning that the New York Times would run 192 articles of spin and narrative and manufacture a humongous, obvious spinfest like they were Newsmax or something. Wouldn’t have believed I would live to see that one. Won’t forget it quickly.

    Now that I have seen it, I don’t trust ANY ‘anonymous source’ so it’s completely a moot point. If it’s ‘reporting’ suggesting things to ‘make’ me ‘worried’ so I’ll be ‘concerned’, I’m kinda like nope? There was a time I was able to care about that stuff but I am so over it…

    Maybe it’s the ‘it’s always projection’ thing again. The wingnuts carried on about how all the news was made up for so long. And then for whatever reason, they seized it and made it true that it was all made up, so ya gotta carry on without it. That’s lame as hell, but hard to miss.

    I can’t even trust PICTURES. There’s a picture floating around of the famous Iwo Jim-bob trump photo, which is still astonishing that such a posing and framing could be made to happen. Except it has been edited so all the Secret Service people are beaming happy smiles. It’s AI-edited, and it’s trivial to do that now, so I know the smiley picture is pure bullshit. Yet, I’ve seen it, and it looks as convincing as the other one.

    A good reminder as to how sketchy everything is these days. Stick to basic principles. I trust Joe Biden. And not a lot else.

  79. 79.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Chris: “Nobody cares” has been my experience too. I hung around with D friends for a while yesterday and that was their reaction. They weren’t cheering on the shooter, but they weren’t shocked and appalled either. Trump had a scary moment and played golf on Sunday.

  80. 80.

    SomeRandomGuy

    I’m glad a few people are finally calling out what has been bugging me all weekend.

    If a Republican kills Trump, it’s not really all that surprising, except insofar as we’re not sure *why*. I mean, a pro-lifer could feel betrayed that he didn’t include a pro-life plank in the party platform. Think of how betrayed a person could feel, knowing their god empoorer Trump is more interested in getting elected than saving baaaaaaybees1!!!!!!

    It could well be that some Republicans think Trump is a wuss, and that you need a *real* warrior, one bold enough to wear shrimp boots. (Is that a comment on his height, or does it explain how ugly the shoes are, blown up from mini-crustaceans?)

    It could be that some people always thought Nikki Haley was the true “run right up and grab them by the pussy!” warrior the Republicans had sought for so long.

    It could even be that there are Republican out there who believe in the rule of law, and see Trump’s death as a chance for the Republicans to RE-SEIZE THE INITIATIVE on rule of law, and IMPEACH HUNTER BIDEN.

    Okay, okay, and, for completeness, it’s possible some really young guy, completely inexperienced in “Politics As Republicans Evangelize – Don’t Overlaw Dickish Outlaws, Whoa, Nelly (Democrats are the only criminals,” or, “Rule of Law: PARED DOWN (Democrats are the only criminals)”. Imagine this young guy, who thinks the Republican Party believes in the rule of law, they think the rule of law is SACRED, and yet, they’re running scared of having any balls at all – what, I mean, they don’t want to be *able* to take their balls and go home! – and sees Trump’s unfortunate demise as a way to bring them back to sanity.

  81. 81.

    Jackie

    @trnc: Funny; TCFG is doing a fake copy of Biden’s call for Unity.

    Biden is sincere, and it shows.

    TCFG sounds insincere, because he is spouting BS he doesn’t believe. Funnily, he’s pissing off his MAGA base with his “calls for unity” – just in the same way he’s disavowing P25. Heh

  82. 82.

    Chris Johnson

    @trnc: I’ve listened to a This American Life episode about Michigan Republican politics sinking into chaos and infighting. It’s very plausible.

    Also, Trump stiffs all his vendors, and this affects things. He refuses to pay for stuff, even as a political actor.

    Also, since when would Trump or any of his people care about election laws? Isn’t it demonstrably proven in court that he don’t?

  83. 83.

    Soprano2

    @Belafon: I certainly hope that’s correct, because talking about Project 2025 was effective and has the benefit of being absolutely true as far as what the R’s want to do if they gain power.

  86. 86.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I am not surprised that it happened. Trump has incited violence since the time he announced his candidacy for 2016. Political violence is not healthy for a democracy. I want him and his loathsome ideology to be defeated soundly at the ballot box.

  87. 87.

    Princess

    @lashonharangue: why treat it different because there’s a politician involved? Because there’s a (very significant!) politician involved. That is the difference.

    i also think parsing this out doesn’t win us one single vote.

  89. 89.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @cain:

    You just wrote what could be a Pitchbot tweet.

    Problem is, it’s probable that a media outlet will do exactly that.

  92. 92.

    WereBear

    I have long thought that terrorists just want to see the world burn.

    Then they discovered a cult of anything is the best way to get people to do that for you.

  93. 93.

    cain

    @Jackie: take heart. At least they have stopped calling him old and senile. How to do that when they want to accuse him of legion diabolic.

  94. 94.

    Chris

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I mean, I can’t even be happy about it.  We all know Trump dying won’t do a damn thing to stop fascism in America: it was on the march before it had a Fuhrer and it’s going to take a lot more than him dying to put it back in its grave.  (All the way back in 2020, in fact, it already occurred to me that if Putin really wanted to fuck up the nation good, he’d find some way to have Trump assassinated and pin it on a leftie, while his people were still in charge of government and prepared to go indiscriminately crazy).

    So what I’m left with isn’t shock and anger, but it isn’t even joy that it happened or sadness that it didn’t work.  It’s just more fucking exhaustion.  The worst human being in America nearly checked out early.  If he had, there would’ve been exactly as many messes as there are now, and exactly as few prospects of them being cleaned up, for all the same reasons.

    This is America in the 2020s.  It’s a day ending in Y.  Fucking yay.

  95. 95.

    lowtechcyclist

    @schrodingers_cat:

    But it is in the DNA of the global left to hate on America.

    It’s going to take awhile yet before we outlive our history, assuming we do.

    I was reflecting the other day on the thought that if we’re in Cold War II now, at least this time we wouldn’t have to go propping up autocratic thugs all around the world simply because they were “anti-Communist.”  Because that’s what we did for forty years, in Asia, in Africa, and especially in Latin America.

    And just when it looked like we might be leaving all that behind us, Dubya and Darth Cheney invade Iraq.  Which didn’t just affect Iraq, of course, as the internal chaos that followed sent millions of refugees into other countries in the region.

    And then of course there’s been our decades-long refusal to do anything meaningful to hinder Israel’s subjugation of the West Bank and Gaza, even as we give Israel billions in aid each year.  And that’s even without getting into what’s happened in the past year.

    Yes, the global left has longstanding reasons to be exceedingly mistrustful (at the very least) of the U.S.  It’s going to take decades of good behavior to change that.

  96. 96.

    Geminid

    @Eolirin: I wonder how efficient these GOTV efforts will be, whether they will be conducted by experienced pros or 2nd and 3rd rate grifters.

    More likely the latter, it seems to me. Trump is a trash magnet and these organizations will likely be the same.

  97. 97.

    Chris Johnson

    @Jackie: I said before the assassination attempt that it was very dangerous for Trump to backpedal, or call for unity, or any of that stuff. In a way I hope he doesn’t, because it’d be a clearer contrast.

    If he does in fact try to fake centrism, repudiate Project 2025, and get the media to do a blitz on that, hoo holy shitballs are we in for a wild ride. That kid was not an isolated incident. I hope like hell the whole thing WAS some kind of stunt or work.

    Because I don’t really want to live in a world where the internecine struggles of the GOP boil over into open warfare.

    I’m bitterly, bitterly mistrustful and angry with anyone who propagates civil war talk in this country. I openly think it is all Russia-promoted bullshit, the only way they really CAN fight us, and I think it happens from many angles whether that be Tucker Carlson or Tim Pool.

    But when it comes down to it, we may yet see REPUBLICANS repeat REPUBLICANS torn by a shooting, violent, civil war within themselves. And it’ll be caused by just this pivot to faux centrism.

    The fringe guys will flip out if they’re betrayed, and they WILL be shooting at their betrayers, not us. Look at the assassination attempt. Who was the fringe guy shooting at? Dunno what exact fringe he was but his shooting at all was not Republican mainstream policy, to try and shoot Donald Trump. That wasn’t the plan. They will schism if they are balked from openly running with Project 2025 and more.

  98. 98.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I confess, it’s hard for me to care. If I had heard Republicans scorning the SCROTUS immunity decision (Supreme Court Republicans OTUS) widely, if Republicans at least admitted Trump was well convicted (“…but it’s insane that they violated the statute of limitations…” says the lawyer who knows damn well it wasn’t, because they didn’t, because lawyers are allowed to lie about the law with impunity, if you’re not paying them), it would be a lot easier to be upset.

    But Trump has killed people, via gross negligence, and I feel he has a duty to protect Americans. I know, I know, it’s stupid to think he had a duty to protect Americans, he’s a REPUBLICAN.

    Trump has sent cops with IDs covered to attempt to terrorize people, because he was so fucking stupid he thought a fishing expedition would pick up massive amounts of criming. He must have mistaken the protest sites for his lunch meeting with Republicans.

    A protestor shot a counter-protestor at BLM; Trump gave orders that sounded like “bring him in, dead… okay, OR ALIVE,” and, he was brought in dead.

    He has tried to use the law against his political opponents, including those who wanted to be allies, but were in the way.

    He was the only President in living history where I’d say “he was cut on in the ear, and never in danger” *before* saying there were shots fired at his rally, because I know so many people might-or-might-not hate him, but are so anxious to be out of the age of Trump.

    And, as I’ve intimated before, I think that lots of good, decent, honest, informed, Republicans also yearn to be out of the age of Trump, even more so, because they already know this is going to be the years where grandchildren need careful explanations about why grandpa and grandma were so fucking *crazy*. I mean, you *can’t* think history is going to look well on you, as a Republican, in these past 8 years. Not unless you think the wrong side won the Civil War.

    (NB: “It’s hard for me to care” should be taken as “I’ve undertaken the effort, of course, but, I recognize the difficulty.”)

  99. 99.

    chemiclord

    The fundamental problem with the entire “Let Them Fight” idea is that they will inevitably target and kill a bunch of people that don’t deserve it in the process.

  100. 100.

    Chris Johnson

    @cain: True except it ain’t fun. I don’t want it, but I don’t see how it’s up to me. That demographic has been cultivated to be like that, but now if the main party doesn’t want to carry on like MTG, they’re in literal danger.

    We’re not the target. We’re also in the crowd, that these people will not give a FUUUUCK about, we’re for lining up later after the betrayers are disposed of.

    It’s not safe, and it’s fucked up, and it has to stop with this one kid (whatever his specific beef was: doesn’t really matter, could be anything, these people are not coherent rational schemers, they’re amateurs). I’m gonna suggest it’s not fun, and not even very good to have schadenfreude about, because it’s just too dangerous. It sucks.

  102. 102.

    schrodingers_cat

    @lowtechcyclist: I am from India. Do you think I don’t understand where they are coming from. My parents had socialist sympathies when they were younger. I grew up with people (leftist intellectuals) like this. I used to be influenced by thinking like this, but living in the US made me question those priors, and the one sided reading of history from the colonial hangover.

    US has made mistakes on the global stage but the knee jerk nuance free stance of leftists (Indian leftist in this article for example) is what I am critiquing. They attack the US but are silent about the havoc USSR-Russia causes in the world. Its all very onesided

    Biden is totally not like Putin or Xi. I just expected better from Mrinal Pande (the author of this screed)

  103. 103.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Geminid:

    The article I linked to in #73 seemingly answers your question: grifters.

    No shock there.  Some Trump kid’s probably got a connection to the company.

  104. 104.

    JoyceH

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I think Trump had more than a “moment” being scared. I suspect he’s still scared. He thought he was immune from the violence he was whipping up because the guys being incited were his guys. Remember “take the effing mags away”?

    Trump thought he owned the leopards. Nobody owns the leopards.

  105. 105.

    Jeffro

    @Ksmiami:The best way forward for the Dems is to blast the GOP and Trump as agents of violence, chaos and disorder. Because that is what a second Trump term means.

    Exactly.

    trump encourages violence almost as often as he lies.

    The GOP is 110% wedded to the idea of all guns, everywhere, all the time.

    What did they THINK would happen?

    (answer: they thought it would happen…just not to their cult leader)

  106. 106.

    Almost Retired

    Holy shit judge cannon dismissed the document charges based on the illegal appointment of jack smith.  Hello 11th circuit.

    utter corruption

  107. 107.

    Wapiti

    If the Republicans try to push unity through the convention week in order to mask their true face while the spotlight is on them…

    I’d guess a lot of speech writers are busting their butts right now, reworking stuff they spent a month on. The presenters will have to revise their presentation. In a perfect world, someone in the RNC would be reviewing the speeches to get them on the same sheet of music. I imagine this will have more problems than they expect.

    And of course all of the delegates have already arrived, and god only knows what they plan to wear to the convention.

    So it could be boring, or screwed up, but why not both?

  108. 108.

    Suzanne

    @Chris Johnson:

    Normies don’t like chaos and perpetual fear. They just want all the drama to be over. It’s very important that Biden do as he is doing: call for unity, and act like the normal person he is. 

    I read this today, posted in some comment section, and it absolutely is my guiding light for how most other people think about this.

    I just want to go back to when I could literally not think about the President of the United States for like months at a time.

  110. 110.

    Ksmiami

     

    @Chris Johnson: oh I’m not saying we amp the crazy, but use this as a frightening example of what Republicans promise. This is the future they want for the country. Violence and hatred and polluted air and water. And it is the truth.

  112. 112.

    M31

    I don’t think ‘moderation’ and ‘calls for unity’ will splinter the GOP camp — they will all know it’s a lie for public consumption. Maybe they’ll make some mouth noises because they’d rather flaunt their freak show in normal people’s faces, but it’s not like they’ll stay home.

    Also, for sure Trump will get some ‘wink wink don’t you worry’ hints in there. “Just because we’re calling for tamping it down doesn’t mean we won’t crush the skulls of the *insert slurs of choice here*”

  113. 113.

    KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))

    Cannon DIMISSED the documents case against Trump.

    Jesus wept

    eta: I see Almost Retired beat me to it.

  116. 116.

    Jeffro

    @moonbat:We are not the party of AR humping weirdos.

    Saving this in my permanent, quick-response file from now until the Sun explodes – thanks!

  117. 117.

    Chris Johnson

    @Almost Retired: Oh interesting! You know it’s a chess game and a matter of whether Cannon shows such prejudice that the court takes away her toys, right?

    I wonder if, assuming what you’ve said is accurate, that constitutes grounds for getting rid of Cannon. I understand she was warned not to take the case by her circuit. It could be coordinated by some bad actors to try and sneak it by so that, even if the case is taken away from her, there won’t be time before the election to reassign and do it.

    I don’t think being tried for this post-election is Trump’s biggest problem. Seems like he’s dodging bullets. I hope he DOES survive to go to fucking jail for what he’s done :)

  119. 119.

    RaflW

    @Almost Retired: Just coming here for this. Our lawless GOP in full swing.

    She’s decided (now, of course, when the SCOTUS is done for the court-year) that Smith’s appointment was invalid.

    I know this won’t happen, but I sure wish Biden could figure out a immune power he could unleash on her (nothing violent, but very consequential to her career).

  120. 120.

    Eolirin

    @RaflW: Is this appealable?

    Even if the SCOTUS won’t take it up until after the election, the 11th could remove her from the case at least.

  121. 121.

    M31

    @Wapiti: ​
     

    a lot of speech writers are busting their butts right now, reworking stuff they spent a month on

    lol chatGPT to the rescue! can’t wait to see the hallucinatory nonsense flowing across the teleprompters

    AND I WOULD LIKE TO CRUSH THE SKULLS OF THE EVIL LIBTARDS AND ABORTIONISTS AND DEI REAL RACISTS, ALL IN THE NAME OF BLESSED UNITY AND TAMPING DOWN THE VIOLENCE WHICH HAS NO PLACE IN AMERICA EVEN THOUGH IT’S ALL EVIL JOE BIDEN’S FAULT BUT REALLY HE’S BEING CONTROLLED BY KAMALA THE COP AND MICHELLE OBAMA AND HITLERY AMIRIGHT

  122. 122.

    KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))

    @Skippy-san:

    is Smith going to appeal to 11th circuit?

    IANAL but I’m pretty confident he will. Otherwise I think all his cases would go caput.

    This is just insane. At least she finally showed her hand, so he can appeal and, with luck, get her thrown off the case.

  124. 124.

    Kay

    MSNBC pulled their own programming because they’re afraid of Donald Trump? Jesus Christ. What cowards. Trump will now direct all media coverage we’re permitted to view?

    No one had to demand these people comply. They were eager to comply with an authoritarian. Ass kissing careerists, all of them. They don’t deserve 1A protections.

  125. 125.

    RaflW

    @Wapiti: I don’t imagine that the much-vaunted message discipline of the Republican Party of yore will hold, now. Too many freaks, anger issues people, and carnival barkers in MAGAland.

    They’re going to want to tap into the base’s anger, and I don’t see the incompetent people now running the RNC having the chops to keep a lid on things.

    If I’m wrong, well, then it’ll be boring, which is a different sort of loss for a voter base that feeds off their butthurt and grievance.

  126. 126.

    Chris Johnson

    @Ksmiami: It sure is! I’ve often been distressed by your ire over the stuff that goes down, but I fundamentally agree with all your points. Just making sure that people don’t fall into the ‘let’s be exactly the same but leftists, because it’s an arm wrestle’. I mean, very tempting, but it’s not. It’s the arc of history. That works kinda differently, and Biden is doing a spectacular job at handling all this.

    But then he’s old, so he’s seen all this stuff before, and he’s wise. That is not a joke. The weakness is in fact a strength, when everything’s scary and crazy. Joe’s seen this all before. Stay the course.

  128. 128.

    Jeffro

    @Almost Retired:

    Holy shit judge cannon dismissed the document charges based on the illegal appointment of jack smith.  Hello 11th circuit.

    utter corruption

    Between this, “presidential immunity”, and Dobbs, do we even need a GOTV operation on the Dem side this year?  Holy shit.

    RUN HARD AGAINST A CORRUPT, DOUBLE-STANDARDS JUDICIARY, Ds!

  130. 130.

    SiubhanDuinne

    WHAT THE ACTUAL GODDAMNED BLUE EYED FUCKITTY FUCK IS THIS LATEST FUCKERY FROM INJUSTICE CANNON?

    I mean WTF?

  131. 131.

    M31

    How much of the actual onstage convention stuff is going to be trying to sell gold coins and survival food packs?

  133. 133.

    Redshift

    @Betty Cracker:

    Trump gave an interview to a right-wing outlet in which he said he tore up an allegedly “tough” convention speech and replaced it with one that calls for “unity.” Donald Fucking Trump calling for unity!

    I believe it, but only in the sense that he will give a speech demanding everyone unify behind Dear Leader. For normal non-pundit people, the point of Biden’s speech was that he called for unity in rejecting political violence, not vague “let’s stop being so polarized” unity.

  134. 134.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Chris Johnson: regarding the photo, what kind of idiot Secret Service agents let their protectee stand up, especially while they are all crouching down, after shots have been fired?

  135. 135.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    A quickie google search:

    cannon dismisses documents case

    for the most part reveals nothing other than “this is a developing story with more to be added later” and almost none say squat about an appeal…

    Except for the piece in FTFNYT which simply says “Mr. Smith’s team will almost certainly appeal the ruling…”

  136. 136.

    Chris Johnson

    @M31: No. No, they REALLY won’t. They won’t believe the pivot to moderation is just a lie to cover an unwavering dedication to the Project 2025 cause.

    Because it IS NOT a lie to serve Project 2025.

    Project 2025 is there to serve TRUMP, and he will absolutely throw any or all of it away if he thinks it won’t help. He’ll run from it and ditch the lot.

    He will turn pro-choice.

    He’ll advocate vaccines.

    He will legitimately betray any and ALL of the crazy wingnut psycho causes if they don’t serve him, because it’s all about him, and he legit doesn’t give a fuck about any of them. That’s what’s dangerous.

    People can sense that he will betray them on this stuff, and it’s absolutely true. He’s not hiding a deeper fealty to their treasured (horrible) goals. Trump legit does not care about them or their goals at all.

  138. 138.

    RaflW

    @Belafon: It’s a short piece, I’m sure put together in a rush. But fer Chrissakes no mention of the lineage of bullshit that got us here: Her appointment by Trump. The judge shopping. The times she’s been slapped down by appellate findings for overreach.

  140. 140.

    KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))

    @Chris Johnson:

    even if the case is taken away from her, there won’t be time before the election to reassign and do it.

    Oh, for sure there won’t be time to reassign and try it before the election. That’s the least of the problems though. It will have to be appealed, but Uncle Clarence at the Supremes has already tipped his hand (in the immunity decision I think?) that he thinks the Special Counsel is illegal.

  141. 141.

    Miki

    @Almost Retired: No surprise there. I called it the day the Trump v US decision was released.

    C. Thomas practically begged Cannon to do this even though not one other justice signed on to the concurrence.

    Some inmates are, indeed, running the asylum.

  142. 142.

    Soprano2

    @cain: Yes, because for them it’s not acceptable to talk about the real reason TCFG’s cult loves him. They’ll say “he cares about people like me” or “he understands people like me” but if the reporter actually takes the time to dig down on it the answers make no sense, unless the person actually talks about their fear of immigrants and gay people and “wokeness”.

  144. 144.

    tam1MI

    @Geminid: Trump might be able to channel Dr. Jekyll for a few days in Mikwaukee, but Mr. Hyde will be back before too long.

    Our problem is that the media will give Dr. Jekyll slobbering tongue baths while refusing to cover that Hyde exists.

  145. 145.

    Eyeroller

    @lashonharangue:  He was a good shot.  There’s little doubt was aiming.  Trump moved his head so it missed. Whether he intended to kill others as well but was taken down before he had the chance to shoot more than 3 others, we can’t know.  He did fire off several rounds.

    I think some people are saying he better fits the profile of a school shooter than a political assassin, but some school shooters have one or more specific targets in mind as well.

  146. 146.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Miki:

    The Totebagger Radio online piece noted that:

    Her opinion closely tracked the reasoning outlined by conservative Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas in a recent concurrence in a separate case against Trump.

    Hell, even CNN called that a “fringe argument” in it’s piece just now.

  147. 147.

    Almost Retired

    @Jeffro: She was only following “orders” in Clarence Thomas’ immunity case concurrence.  Thanks for the roadmap, Clarence.
    Whatever happens at the 11th Circuit, you can bet this is going back to the Supreme Court.

    I thought my capacity for being shocked by the appalling corruption and intellectual dishonesty of Trump World had been reached.  In the immortal words of Billy Mays, “But wait, there’s more..”

  148. 148.

    Chris Johnson

    @Steve in the ATL: Well, that’s another big problem right there. I’ve seen the footage of Reagan being shot, and I’ve seen Trump hustled offstage at a rally where there was no pause and the agents absolutely shielded him with their bodies as you would normally expect.

    I have no answer. Only the observation: do you trust Donald Trump? I don’t know what the hell went on but it doesn’t make me trust Donald Trump more to see stuff that freaking weird and inexplicable going on.

  149. 149.

    KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))

    @Skippy-san: I’m not sure what you’re saying, but if you’re saying that we shouldn’t tone down the rhetoric, damn skippy we shouldn’t.

  150. 150.

    Redshift

    @Jeffro: Apparently in Clarence Thomas’ concurrence in the immunity case he wrote that special counsels investigating presidents was totally unconstitutional, even though that wasn’t argued as part of the case. More importantly, he included a lot of wackadoodle legal research as a gift package to Cannon, so she wouldn’t have to do all that work herself.

  151. 151.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Almost Retired:

    I thought my capacity for being shocked by the appalling corruption and intellectual dishonesty of Trump World had been reached.

    It’s akin to the inevitability of death & taxes: no matter how low the bar is set, Trump World will always find a way to slither under it.

  152. 152.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Eyeroller: it appears that he didn’t take wind into account.  That is what happens when antifa sends an inexperienced sniper.

  153. 153.

    M31

    @Almost Retired: ​
     

    I thought my capacity for being shocked by the appalling corruption and intellectual dishonesty of Trump World had been reached.

    that’s just you having good nature — there is no bottom with these freaks

  157. 157.

    KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))

    @Kay:

    MSNBC pulled their own programming because they’re afraid of Donald Trump?

    I think they pulled their programming (specifically Morning Joe) because they’re afraid of what loose cannon Joe Scarborough might say. Why they still coddle him, and have even expanded his show, is a mystery to me.

  161. 161.

    Almost Retired

    I can’t bear to read her opinion while stone cold sober, but I have to assume she adopted Clarence Thomas’ reasoning and citations on the subject hook line and sinker.
    Convenient.  The Immunity decision wouldn’t have gotten Trump off the hook for his post-Presidential misconduct, but this does the trick.

  162. 162.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Redshift: ​
     hmmmm…that adds credence to the false flag theory if he knew he was in no real danger. He’s not a man known for his courage.

  163. 163.

    M31

    @Redshift: once he had his shoes, he knew he was invincible

    actually I think they told him the shooter was killed, and only then did he do his fist bump thing, but that’s super dumb because what if there were a second shooter? can’t believe the SS let him stand up and expose his huge stupid head

  164. 164.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I agree, they’re violating the first rule of dealing with fascists, which is don’t obey in advance.

  166. 166.

    Soprano2

    @Chris Johnson:  He will legitimately betray any and ALL of the crazy wingnut psycho causes if they don’t serve him, because it’s all about him, and he legit doesn’t give a fuck about any of them. That’s what’s dangerous.

    People can sense that he will betray them on this stuff, and it’s absolutely true. He’s not hiding a deeper fealty to their treasured (horrible) goals. Trump legit does not care about them or their goals at all.

    This, 1,000%

  167. 167.

    different-church-lady

    See, here’s the thing, Tribbet: it wasn’t a unity speech. It was an anti-violence speech. MAGA doesn’t want any kind of unity with non-MAGA, so there’s no point in calling for it.

    If MAGA thinks a major and clear example of political violence makes them look bad, then the shoe fits, and we’re not going to let you try to make Biden wear it.

  168. 168.

    Anonymous At Work

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: EVERYONE but TFG’s legal team has been looking for a reason to appeal since she was assigned the case.

    However, until now, she’s been coy about not making any written decisions on which an appeal could be filed.  I frankly thought she’d wait for a jury to be selected and jeopardy to attach before dismissing the case (so that TFG couldn’t be retried).

  169. 169.

    cain

    @Betty Cracker:

    Not going to happen. Trump can’t contain himself. He is going to lean into violence and he will attack the Dems because he knows that he will get what he most craves adulation.

    This is a man who still hasn’t called his dead supporters family and offer condolences.

  170. 170.

    Eyeroller

    @M31: That’s what I heard, that they told him the shooter was down so he immediately jumped up to do his sneering macho jerk act.  The agents may not have expected that.  Edit: Trump may have just heard “shooter dead” and not even considered that there could be more than one.

    If it was staged whoever set  it up didn’t have a problem with sacrificing bystanders (seems to be just luck that only one died).  Also Steve in the Somewhere claimed that wind could account for the shot missing.  (Where did that round end up?)  I think we should just take this at face value: some young white man who fits the profile of a mass shooter has a beef against Trump, maybe because of Alex Jones and the like, and takes his opportunity, but he’s an inexperienced sniper so misses and doesn’t get another shot.

  171. 171.

    Chris Johnson

    @Redshift: If you think multiple Secret Service agents are not able to push down a sedentary nearly-80-year-old man who doesn’t even walk around golf courses and has come out of his shoe lifts, I don’t know what to tell you.

    The one most obvious thing there is that not a single person is trying to press him down and cover his body with theirs. Dude, I’m 55 and I could have done that single-handedly. No, Donald Trump did not burst up flinging secret service agents aside with raw physical strength. What the actual fuck man :D

  172. 172.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Steve in the ATL: With all due respect, I don’t see a false flag causing the death of a bystander being beyond today’s GOP, especially if it was a person who thought the real shooting would be no more difficult than plinking, with a rifle that fires super-high velocity bullets with recoil suppression.

    I’m not saying that I find there to be evidence of a false flag – I’m just saying that stuff like “but a bystander was killed,” is *not* contra-evidence.

  173. 173.

    Jeffro

    SCOTUS must hear Jack Smith’s appeal quickly and rule on it quickly.

    If they don’t…if it’s going to get delayed, I hope and pray (me!  praying!) that Smith simply does his country and the world a favor, and releases every last bit of evidence to the public.  Let them see what trump really did, and intended to do, with all of our nation’s secrets.

  175. 175.

    Eyeroller

    @Chris Johnson: They could have been just taken by surprise that he’d be so stupid.  Sure, they’ve probably covered him for a long time, but “you don’t know anybody as stupid as Donald Trump.  You just don’t” so it may not have sunk in.  Plus if they lean toward (or explicitly) support him, they wouldn’t imagine that he’s such an idiot as he seems to be.

  176. 176.

    ArchTeryx

    @Chris: It’s basically the rural parts of the country vs. the urban parts of the country. Two mutually hostile nations indeed, and the rurals have the advantages because of our electoral system and the gerrymandering. Not to mention the armories they’ve collected and the hope that Trump sends the military against the cities. If, doG help us, he wins, expect every major blue city in the country to quickly become occupied territory.

  177. 177.

    Geminid

    @different-church-lady: Ben Tribbett stays pissed off, and I’m not surprised that he pulled one thing out of Biden’s speech to get mad about.

    I remember the night the new Virginia Congressional map was announced. There is a long story behind it and he had reasons to be angry, but Tribbett sounded like he was gonna have a stroke.

  178. 178.

    Ruckus

    @moonbat:

    For sheer self preservation purposes you’d think they’d figure that out and act accordingly.

    One has to be smarter than a lamppost to figure out anything and act accordingly. They aren’t smarter than the hole in the ground below the lamppost. After all they think shitforbrains is an actual leader.

  179. 179.

    Chris Johnson

    Beau of the Fifth Column just did a video where he says he’s heard Trump is making a hard pivot to ‘unity’. No, I’m not joking. I guess it could be nonsense.

    If that’s true:

    -it means Trump thinks unity gets more votes than going full MAGA. I think that’s accurate. It’s in line with the guy’s sense for politics.

    -it means he’s doubling down on the behavior that has (apparently) already got him shot at by (apparently) an extremist. There are lots of those extremists, they’re the gun nuts, and they are already being told Trump is mind-controlled by the Jews.

    -it suggests that Trump is really that stupid and arrogant that, just because he is a raging narcissist and doesn’t care about anything or anyone but himself, he thinks everyone ELSE also don’t care about anything or anyone other than worshipping him.

    This is genuinely horrible news. Never mind that it’s bullshit: yes he doesn’t care about unity but he didn’t care about the 2025 platform either. It’s other people desperate to push that. Trump didn’t care, he just used it for votes.

    He doesn’t get to pivot at this stage, and he doesn’t seem to understand that simple fact.

    If everything goes fucking crazy, folks, treat it like it’s the COVID outbreak. Hole up and stay cool. There’s a Senate candidate (real piece of work, too) who’s made and put out an ad invoking ‘RINO hunting season’. They are going after insufficiently radical Republicans, and Trump is about to pose as a moderate. What the actual fuck is this timeline.

    Just this morning (or was it yesterday?) I advocated for trying to let Republicans hide behind the shooter not being a ‘real Republican’. I wouldn’t mind that angle catching on. Man, things move fast.

  180. 180.

    Ruckus

    @cain:

    This is a far less/worse than useless POS human being. Call his supporters family? Considering how little thought is actually capable of happening in that POS brain I’m imagining that his use of a phone is limited to talking on it, discussing, even listening is way beyond him. In that tiny, useless, dried up lump that is trying to pass for a brain, inside that overgrown useless sack of shit trying to pass itself off as a human, there is zero actual, useful logical thought happening, just as it’s always been.

  181. 181.

    lowtechcyclist

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I used to be influenced by thinking like this, but living in the US made me question those priors, and the one sided reading of history from the colonial hangover.

    Well, they haven’t been living in the U.S., so you can’t expect them to see things as you do.

    Also, one-sided or not, the history of U.S. intervention in the world that I summarized is all too real, and not that old. There are places in this world (and I bet you’re familiar with some of them) where people are still pissed of about things that happened a thousand years ago.

    US has made mistakes on the global stage but the knee jerk nuance free stance of leftists (Indian leftist in this article for example) is what I am critiquing. They attack the US but are silent about the havoc USSR-Russia causes in the world. Its all very onesided

    Russia was able to invade Ukraine because it was right next door. The USSR could invade Afghanistan because it was right next door.  (And eventually had to give up on Afghanistan.) The U.S. could invade and occupy Iraq which was on the other side of the world. It’s not surprising that the U.S. occupies a considerably larger place in the thoughts of people anywhere outside of Russia’s immediate neighborhood, regardless of ideology.

  182. 182.

    schrodingers_cat

    @lowtechcyclist: Russian influence and that of the USSR spread far and wide beyond its border. Also Russia occupies a huge landmass that straddles Europe and Asia. Stop making excuses for Russia and China.

    Also neither of the those two countries can be described as left anymore. I will call out kneejerk antiAmericanism where I see it. It is not helpful. YMMV.

  183. 183.

    Geminid

    @Chris Johnson: You can see the same story with some detail in this morning’s Politico Playbook.

    Playbook started requiring a sign-in a little while ago but it’s usually worth checking out. They do lot of Washington-centered reporting and link to a wide range of recent political stories. They also give the President’s and Vice President’s schedule that day and times for Cingressional hearings etc.

  184. 184.

    schrodingers_cat

    @lowtechcyclist: Russia interfered in our elections in 2016 and is still doing it. We don’t share a border with Russia. While US may not be perfect, its record is far better than either Russia or China.

    As for Iraq. There was a robust opposition to it internally and in some part Obama won because he had come out against the Iraq War.

    Russia and China don’t have such corrective mechanisms.

    I am sorry I can’t take the blame America First instinct of tankies and other assorted lefties seriously.

  185. 185.

    Citizen Alan

    @Redshift: Which to me is evidence of it being staged. If he were actually surprised by what happened, I literally cannot imagine him having the presence of mind to demand his shoes and then give a defiant fist pump to the crowd.

  186. 186.

    wjca

    @Eyeroller: Steve in the Somewhere claimed that wind could account for the shot missing.

    Did he happen to note little details like how hard the wind was blowing (which would have to be pretty brisk to have much impact at such a short range)?  Or what direction?  Because, absent that information, it could equally well have been aimed to miss, and gotten closer than intended.

  187. 187.

    Chris

    @Citizen Alan:

    Same.

    I don’t insist on the “it’s staged” theory, but I’ll just note that the version of Trump on stage that night doesn’t coincide with any version of Trump we’ve ever seen before.  The man was terrified of a bird flapping its wings.  He’s such a pathological coward that he can’t even fire people in person, or even over the phone, they have to find out about it on CNN.  I’m supposed to believe that this is the same guy whose response to being shot at is to stand up and give the sniper another shot.

    Adrenaline does all kinds of things of weird things to people.  Maybe this is just how he reacted to an event he’s never before in his life been placed in, and he never would’ve done it if he’d actually had time to think about it.  I’ll just be very charitable to him and say that’s not the only possible explanation.

  188. 188.

    Martin

    Talking about political violence seems like a dumb thing to do, especially since there is absolutely no indication that the assassination attempt was in any way politically motivated. It gives the Republicans ammunition to blame Democrats for what happened. Focus on the availability of guns, and who is opposed to doing something about it.

  189. 189.

    Miss Bianca

    @Ruckus: I expect to hear that President Biden calls the slain supporter’s family before Trump thinks to do it.

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