I only know that because I went to turn on the 10 pm news and there he was…how long has it been?
Damn I wish I had control of Joe Biden’s Twitter account.
Biden: Folks, I have COVID, and that’s still better than listening to this man speak.
— Alex Cole (@acnewsitics) July 19, 2024
Pretty much this…
My party is shanking a good man, a lifetime public servant and one of the most consequential Presidents in our country’s history over this bumbling, fumbling, pathologically lying, traitorous, rapist felon?
This idiotic, despot loving bully?
This guy?
Really?
Fucking really?— Jo (@JoJoFromJerz) July 19, 2024
You can see a lot of concerned faces in the RNC crowd right now. Definitely a different energy from an hour ago. I think some people are going, “Uh…what’s happening.”
— Wajahat Ali (@WajahatAli) July 19, 2024
And I want to post what Adam said down thread:
Second, I just want to make a quick point about all the sturm and drang around whether President Biden needs to stay or go. It is important to remember that the Democratic Party today is really a coalition of what would be medium to smaller parties that have a lot of overlapping interests and objectives, but also some significant differences. As the GOP has consolidated into a party with a much narrower constituency, everyone else either finds their way to the Democratic Party of just gives up on political parties. So the Democratic Party absorbs everyone that either is not tolerated in the Republican Party of 2024 or is repulsed by it. And this gets us to the point I want to make. If this whole dispute over if Biden should remain the nominee or withdraw and turn things over to VP Harris or there should be a three week primary or the convention should just be brokered were an actual political warfare operation to break the Democratic Party into smaller parties that can’t garner a majority, what would be done differently? My professional assessment is nothing. Nothing would be done differently. Whether this really started as a political warfare operation or whether a variety of domestic and foreign actors just latched on to and amplified the vendetta that Sulzberger at The NY Times started and is pursuing because President Biden won’t give his paper an interview doesn’t really matter at this point. All that matters is the effects being achieved.
I’m off to put the ducks to bed…they’ll bitch at me because I’m late, but I got busy.
Let me know when the orchestra plays him off….
chemiclord
It is fascinating how many people are wetting their pants out of the perception of cognitive decline in Joe Biden, yet this incoherent nonsense gets no reaction from the fourth pillar of this country.
It’s almost like… they want Trump to win or something…
Old School
He’s finally done.
RaflW
Somehow, it ended. Possibly because the universe imploded having reached 100% entropy.
(not meant to be a science statement)
TaMara
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
This speech proves he has a tin ear
chemiclord
@RaflW: No, no. 107% entropy.
Trivia Man
NBC is gushing “Longest convention speech ever! Like, by a lot!”
93 minutes.
“Some people fell asleep around us, but most didn’t!” exact quote
RaflW
I am not at all looking forward to how the print media clean that up and make it sound like he made coherent sense. The disservice to reality they will perform is a type of violence, frankly.
Trivia Man
Melania showed up, but not Barron. Maybe he had to wash his hair.
Old School
Per NBC, some people in the crowd fell asleep during Trump’s speech.
Trivia Man
Best part is watching the grandkids having fun on stage with the balloons. Full of ballon juice I might add, it is Q telling this blog they support us!
SiubhanDuinne
He just ended a couple of minutes ago. Holy cries. I listened to maybe the first 10 minutes, turned off the TV about 10:45, turned it on again just before midnight and HE WAS STILL YAMMERING AWAY!! Lordy.
guachi
@Old School: They were just following Dear Leader who fell asleep during other speeches. It’s a sign of great respect!
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I am betting on “something”. There seems to be a serious disconnect from reality here, like they High Brodered themselves into believing it just had to be Biden whose lost it.
Tazj
They have video of audience members falling asleep during his speech, young people.
Anyone who has seen him on the campaign trail knows that he rambles on talking about nonsense, or how he’s being persecuted. The media were telling us this speech was going to be different.
clay
@guachi: That used to be called “pulling a Pence” until Mikey got himself declared persona non grata
Ksmiami
I am livid that the Democratic leadership has so cowardly torpedoed Biden. Unforgivable.
guachi
@Ksmiami: Why? Biden isn’t great rhetorically at this point. He’s a C- speaker. Nothing Biden can say will stop people from thinking he’s old.
Harris can run circles around Trump. Biden can’t.
prostratedragon
Aaron Rupar has provided us a time lapse of himself following the speech at his computer.
RaflW
@Old School: That’s just an homage to Dear Leader, who fell asleep in the Special Nominee Balcony at least twice this week.
RaflW
@Tazj: Apparently some journos said “Christ this is boring” (or similar) on social media in the last hour. Thus admitting that they’d never really watched a full Trump speech (?) this year.
SiubhanDuinne
They are saying on MSNBC that he wandered off script repeatedly and included all the zaniest bits from his rallies, including sharks and Hannibal Lecter. For fucking REAL? In an ACCEPTANCE SPEECH?
Also, they’re saying that many in the audience were nodding off or getting fidgety and distracted. And these are among his most adoring supporters? Hunh.
Ksmiami
@guachi: you’re living in a fantasyland that the people calling for Biden’s head, will be ok with Harris. The whole thing is a psyop until proven false.
NotMax
Squawky in Milwaukee.
Trivia Man
@SiubhanDuinne: He used the Hannibal Lecter bit as a “funny” take on the border. I still have no idea what point he was trying to make the first ten times he used it, but this time it was ‘other countries are emptying their prisons and asylums to send to the US. People like Hannibal Lecter.’ Which at least makes sense in the broader point he is pushing.
And his bit on electric cars ‘I love electric cars but they won’t be required’ seemed like clear Musk pandering. “See? I am not telling people not to buy your shit.”
Other MJS
<deleted>
guachi
@Ksmiami:
You still think somehow among the people that want Biden to withdraw exactly zero of them would back Harris. We have actual data saying that’s wrong. There’s no need to engage with your misinformation.
Splitting Image
@chemiclord:
It’s because Trump is declining so badly that they’ve gone after Biden.
It’s the Dick Cheney playbook. Attack the opponent at their strongest point. Both Biden and Trump are old, but Trump is seriously declining while Biden has slowed a bit, but is basically okay. So the GOP just throw everything at the wall to make it look like Biden is the one with the serious problem, and their candidate skates.
Same shit, different candidate. Remember when Hillary Clinton had poor security practices? When Gore was an out of touch elitist?
prostratedragon
Ron Filipkowski:
Ksmiami
@guachi: I’m saying that this is way more messy and complicated than people think. If it is handled the way the past three weeks have gone, its a sure path to defeat.
TaMara
Before I head off to bed, I will remind you again, the pie filter is a blessing and don’t feed the trolls that only show up at certain times to hijack a post. If you don’t feed them they go away. HINT HINT
guachi
@TaMara: You made a post comparing Trump and Biden and then complain when people compare Trump and Biden.
Physician, heal thyself. How do I pie someone because an obvious hypocrite like TaMara is the first in the filter.
tam1MI
I said it before and I mean it. The second the Coup D’Etat Caucus ousts Joe and disenfranchises me, my vote goes up for grabs.
NotMax
Palate cleanser: Ramblin’ Man.
;)
SiubhanDuinne
@guachi:
Here, I’ll demonstrate for you.
…
…
…
Yup, you’re pied! Still works like a charm!
Mai Naem mobile
We can beat this mofo. With Biden. With Harris. This guy does not deserve to be in the WH and is wholly unsuited and un qualified for POTUS. And don’t get me started with the loser grifter family that follows him around like a bunch of fat ticks.
RaflW
Trying again, in the correct thread:
I think the biggest takeaways from the convention are:
– The Mass Deportation signs, which could pay dividends for months in beating these f-ckers, and,
– No discernable convention bounce, since it was totally a snoozfest tonight, and JD Vance has no crossover appeal whatsoever.
guachi
@SiubhanDuinne: Thanks for being an unhelpful asshole. At least you weren’t as bad as the three assholes who wished me dead and none of the regulars bothered to say it was wrong. So I assume wishing people dead is just normal for people around here now and no one really cares.
BeautifulPlumage
@TaMara:
I love that it immediately takes effect. Mmmmmm baked goods
Sister Golden Bear
@TaMara: Let’s see if our media betters deem to treat it as such. Not holding my breath.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Ksmiami:
A psyop that relies heavily on willing rubes of which we have too many.
@guachi:
Cry louder, Russia needs your help.
RaflW
Just pied someone (or two).
Don’t love doing that, but I also don’t want to just avoid this whole place, which is sometimes the objective of trolls.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@tam1MI:
I’m voting Joe, write in if necessary. I will not have my primary choice taken from me.
Ksmiami
@Mai Naem mobile: yep. He’s human garbage. I’d take Joe on a Gurney over the Republican freak show
Chet Murthy
@Mai Naem mobile:
I don’t know if we can or not. But we certainly -won’t- if we give up before the fight, like these high-level Dems and donors. Grrrrr. I for one am not going to wake up on Nov 6 with regrets for what I didn’t do before the election.
Ksmiami
@Odie Hugh Manatee: weak, craven and disloyal people- I’m so ashamed of them
BeautifulPlumage
Poor Grouchy* @ 38. They’re so miserable that, if they were to catch on fire no one would bother peeing on them to douse the flames**. Boo & hoo.
*or something like that
** paraphrase from Lion In Winter
Sister Golden Bear
@Chet Murthy: Quoting just because I wanted to see this again.
<smokes cigarette and I don’t even smoke>
guachi
@Chet Murthy:
I am still baffled by comments like this when it’s obvious, and has been obvious for months, that the idea Biden shouldn’t run didn’t originate with “high-level Dems and donors”. Poll after poll after poll has said Americans think Biden is too old and shouldn’t run. These “high-level Dems and donors” are late to the party, not the people throwing the party.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I say it again; after tonight’s hour and half long ramble threw the God King’s stream of consciousness I think what’s really driving this is everyone is convinced that and old left sock with a D next to it’s name could beat Trump and they are demanding a do over on the primary for their personal dream candidate. Outside the polls, Trump looks like shit in the election, and we all know the polls are useless trash to begin with and Trump’s people been trying to fix them (I mean if 1/3 of the Blacks were going to vote for Trump, it would be a statistical certainty that the black regulars here would know a few)
Also, did you all noticed that the Dump Biden stopped when Trump was shot at, and then it started right up again the microsecond it was clear most Americans decided the assassination attempt was fake and otherwise didn’t give a shit? One could see the “Oh shit, Trump will be invincible now and that will be the end of my candidate, let Biden go down in flames.” followed by “well, the coast is clear, let’s get my candidate that nomination” in real time.
This is like watching a high school mock election.
BeautifulPlumage
Oh Grouchi, cry harder.
guachi
@BeautifulPlumage: I don’t think it’s fine to wish people dead. You do and so do most of the posters here. That’s cult behavior we’d see from MAGA.
BeautifulPlumage
I’m collecting maga tears, and the bins are overflowing tonight!
Yutsano
I just found the blog a new spirit animal.
(Warning: Muskrat link.)
EDIT: I need to see SiubhanDuinne in that shirt now.
guachi
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
No, I didn’t notice it because it’s not true. If you think the only people who want Biden to withdraw are the elites in the party then you’ve somehow missed the millions and millions of people that we know want Biden to withdraw because we have polling data supporting it. I seriously doubt they stopped wanting Biden to withdraw because Trump was shot.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@guachi:
Quit the gaslighting. There hasn’t been talk of replacing Biden until after the debate.
Fuck off, asshole. Eat a bag of salted dicks while you are at it.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@BeautifulPlumage: MAGA is doubting The God King? Do tell please.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@guachi:
Gas lighting. As in fill a room with propane and strike a match.
Please.
NotMax
Coming to a bookstore near you sooner than you think, the Cliff’s Notes version of tonight, Horton Hears a Putz.
//
Sister Golden Bear
Waiting to see if the media pundits who’ve been baying for Biden’s scalp will talk about how incoherent and rambling Trump’s hot mess acceptance speech was.
Also that it was so low energy even Republicans in the audience were falling asleep.
Although to be fair, they were merely emulating Dear Leader falling asleep during the previous nights of the convention.
Not holding my breath. Because “the narrative” cannot fail, “the narrative” can only be failed.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@NotMax: “Trump has become the James Joyce of the politics with this Finnegan’s Wake of an acceptance speech.” MSM tomorrow.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Sister Golden Bear: It’s not impossible they might turn on Trump now they got a corporate friendly human toad name Vance as the VP.
NotMax
@Sister Golden Bear
Numb and Number. .Almost made Vance seem animated.
//
BeautifulPlumage
I mean, I myself wouldn’t be commenting on a blog that didn’t share my values unless I were being paid. Did the 2nd quarter bonus fail to arrive from the mother country?
Or, I guess, some folks just need the attention sooooooo badly that they’ll put up with anything to get it.
guachi
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Classy comments from the regulars.
You have got to be kidding me, though. Here’s David Axelrod from last November.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4294394-axelrod-suggests-biden-drop-out-of-2024-presidential-race/
Ezra Klein said it in February.
Here’s an opinion from November by Perry Bacon, Jr.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/13/biden-campaign-trump-whitmer-beshear/
A poll from Sept 2023 with people showing “concern” about Biden’s age.
https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/first-read/poll-overwhelming-majorities-express-concerns-biden-trump-ahead-2024-r-rcna111347
40% of Dems in Dec 2023 say Biden shouldn’t run. I’d be willing to bet the independent number was much higher.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democrats-dont-want-biden-to-run-again-poll-analysis/
April 2023 – 70% of Americans and 51% of Ds didn’t want Biden to run. April!!
https://www.axios.com/2023/04/25/2024-trump-biden-presidential-rematch
BeautifulPlumage
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Oh, just low-quality secretions from our current grauchy troll. Sorry to disappoint! 😸
SiubhanDuinne
@Yutsano:
OMG I WANT THAT SHIRT SO HARD
SiubhanDuinne
@BeautifulPlumage:
ISWYDT. Nice.
Sister Golden Bear
@Yutsano: I have a great need.
To the shirt maker: Shut up and take my money.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@BeautifulPlumage: Awww you got my hopes up. lol I suppose the MAGA crowd is to busy with their late night snuff movies nighty cap to be bothered posting on line.
I have no idea why I am mentioning this, but the Argentinian economy is terrible shape and labor there is both very cheep and just desperate for dollars.
BeautifulPlumage
@Yutsano:
that looks like this season’s B-J team uniform! Paired with khaki pants? (She asked, before remembering that no one on this blog wears pants)
BeautifulPlumage
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Ha! But doesn’t one need to be fluent in something other than russian to work there?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@BeautifulPlumage: Crypto Bros come up in this and Argentina just elected a Radical Libertarian as president.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@guachi:
Fuckin’ A, just go away. Nobody of any consequence was talking about it and it was a non subject here. You really are the Energizer Bunny of Republican support, arentcha comrade?
Again, fuck off.
opiejeanne
@BeautifulPlumage: I love pie. Pie is delicious.
SiubhanDuinne
@Yutsano:
Damn your eyes, Yuts, I just ordered two of those shirts. One black, one red. They should arrive within a week.
Chet Murthy
I’m so old I remember when AOC was the one who was gonna betray the Dems (remember “Justice Democrats” ?) And here she is, telling these high-level Dems to calm the fuck down.
https://bsky.app/profile/mosheroperandi.bsky.social/post/3kxmc5buayg2q
Chet Murthy
@SiubhanDuinne: I have a couple of “Truck Fump” shirts. Guess it’s time to break ’em out.
divF
@opiejeanne: Not only that, but it pays off dividends in the long term. I’m having to apply the pie filter very little on this thread, since the people I have pied in the last week or so, well, remain pied. I am blissfully ignorant of what they have to say.
guachi
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Of course you won’t admit you were wrong no one talked about Biden not running (or withdrawing) until the debate. I am not surprised in the slightest that you ignore facts.
But others can read and see that this has been an issue for at least 15 months, if not far longer.
opiejeanne
@BeautifulPlumage: That reminds me, where is Baud? Did he go on vacation again, pantsless?
WheatBoy56
@guachi: Thx for the links. You are correct re President Biden’s performance at the debate with Trump and the effect it had on many Democratic voters, as well as the longstanding concerns about Biden’s advanced age and how it could affect his performance as President and just as important in the ongoing campaign. I agree that unfortunately those concerns were well-founded. I think we have a better chance to defeat Trump, which is our primary goal this fall, if President Biden will gracefully step aside.
opiejeanne
@WheatBoy56: Have some pie, new name.
Quinerly
@guachi:
Not a big Politico fan but here’s a link for you:
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/18/kamala-harris-fundraising-democrats-00169634
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@opiejeanne: At this point they are simply painfully obvious, aren’t they?
tam1MI
It will be grimly hilarious to see the surprised Pikachu faces on the dupes when, after the Coup D’Etat Caucus succeeds in defenestrating Biden, we get to the convention with Biden’s delegates released and all of a sudden it’s, “Have you seen Kamala’s polls? She’s doing no better than Biden was”, and “I can’t vote for her, she’s completely unvetted”, and of course, “How do we know she didn’t orchestrate the whole Dump Biden thing and has been scheming to replace him the entire time?” and the next thing you know the ticket is Manchin-Sinema.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
As a Joe Biden convert; I’d, just once, like to be interviewed by the Times*
*”I” could be literally any one person who shares this in common with me. To start…
prostratedragon
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Argentina is frequently both the example and the counterexample in our shadow.
Piazzolla and Borges
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@tam1MI: I was thinking, if Biden does drop out, he’s going to drag his feet until there is no time for the crypto bros to organize their trolls to stop Harris.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: The grotesquerie of this whole farce…
Class is earned in this case.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@prostratedragon: Oh yes, I’ve been following economist on you tube talking about Argentina and it is good example of what if the political extremes take turns wrecking what otherwise should be a prosperous country.
tam1MI
But the problem with that strategy is that it also gives Harris no time to get her own organization up and running and to lock down the support she will need. She will be crippled from the outset.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Yes, I know, all because some dude bros with way too much money, ego, and drugs. Just stupid.
guachi
@WheatBoy56: Thank you for the kind words. I must say even I was surprised in my searching that opposition was so high back in April. It really was a warning sign that was ignored.
lowtechcyclist
@tam1MI:
And according to SurveyUSA’s latest (polling took place this past Friday thru Monday 7/12-15), she isn’t doing any better than Biden – a couple points worse in their latest poll (but still within the MOE) and the race is pretty much where it was in April.
https://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=5d217599-3223-4ba1-ba09-3464095c0001
Richard Fox
@TaMara: You make much sense, as always. I’ve taken your advice. Pie is delicious. Have a lovely night.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I’m with you on the particular bros but please don’t disparage the good name of bros or drugs.
BeautifulPlumage
@opiejeanne:
I think he mentioned disappearing again for a while. Must have something to do with his current run for president. BAUD 20XX!
Slightly_peeved
@guachi:
Which reps endorsed Harris for presidential nominee?
BeautifulPlumage
@opiejeanne:
I approve this message.
BeautifulPlumage
@opiejeanne:
and peach cobbler! Water Girl’s picture looks delish.
M31
of course they fell asleep, their little ear pillows were so comfy
Lily
AOC’s 🔥talk🔥 :
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9l41vgOAGj/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
tam1MI
@lowtechcyclist:And the silence from the Coup D’Etat Caucus concerning her has been thunderous. Where are the warm words of praise, the assurances that she would make a fine president were Biden to step down? Why aren’t they appearing at her side at the rallies she is appearing at? Why haven’t they already pledged their delegate votes to her should Biden step down to assure a seamless transition? How do we know they aren’t going to kick her and her voters to the curb the same as they are doing with Biden and his voters? If the plan is to oust Joe and install Kamala, they better fucking start speaking up and showing her some goddamn support.
Chet Murthy
@tam1MI:
Another thing that will be grimly hilarious if Joe is forced to withdraw, is when he continues to govern like he has so far, and of course (b/c he’s a patriot) continues to campaign, now for his replacement, and does an excellent job (as he has done all along, sure, with a few slip-ups). Since he won’t be the candidate, the MSM will have no reason to ratfuck him, and by Election Day it’ll be obvious to everybody that he was perfectly able to do the job.
Grimly hilarious, b/c there’s every chance that we’ll be losing. Ah, well.
opiejeanne
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Amazing how relentless they are. It makes me think that Balloon Juice must be worrying some people enough that they’re sending their flying monkeys*, and maybe we’ve moved up to a top 9,999 blog.
*Not very smart monkeys.
Geoduck
CNN.com right now: Top Biden Officials Believe He Must Drop Out / Trump Gives Lengthy Speech
Chet Murthy
@tam1MI: word. it’s so goddamn transparent.
sab
@Odie Hugh Manatee: If you write in a name, remember to fill in the little write-in box so that the computer knows to look for the written in name. ( At least that’s how it works in Ohio.) Just writing in the name alone won’t work.
Lily
Never mind …. link is above.
aoc is wonderful.
guachi
@Slightly_peeved: This question presupposes that the only people in the universe that want Biden to withdraw are Representatives. As that’s not the case you’re question is irrelevant.
tam1MI
I’m convinced that the plan is to pin all the blame for the coup on Kamala Harris then refuse to nominate her on the grounds that to do so would be “too divisive”.
BeautifulPlumage
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
ahaha haha haha! Just toggled your comment and ahaha haha *gasp* haha ha ha
Kinda a ” I’m pumpin’for putin but commenters here are mean’ vibe.
Also…you pack of vitriolic jackals are marvelous and I really enjoyed this post.
prostratedragon
@Chet Murthy:
Downthread:
I do seem to recall polling that said she was in for a tough fight in the primary. Instead, she kind of romped.
BeautifulPlumage
@M31:
😸😸😸😸 😸😸😸😸!
NotMax
@M31
Takes their tiny little minds off the discomfort of the “COVID negating” light bulbs shoved up their posteriors.
opiejeanne
@BeautifulPlumage: Oh, I need to toggle the pie filter back to pictures from quotes about pie.
There was a great Pratchett quote about pie, that if the Librarian gave it to you, you knew you had something. The problem with that is who madethat pie, most likely the purveyor of sausage inna bun.
Edited for clarity.
Roberto el oso
@tam1MI: Agreed, and chances are they won’t even pause to consider the cognitive dissonance between saying she “stabbed Joe in the back, so can’t be trusted” and “she was part of the cover-up over Joe’s health issues, can’t be trusted”.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@opiejeanne: Like Adam Silverman said in his nightly Ukraine update, the Dems are a coalition, and the collective enemy’s been working hard to find fracture points.
Assuming I live long enough to see another free election, my attitude towards the dividers in our own coalition will be “I need to work with you guys, but damned if I’m going to trust you.”
Chet Murthy
Looks like at least one FPer over at LG&M has woken up to smell the coffee burning, the oven melting down, the stand mixer auguring into the linoleum tile, and the dishwasher overflowing the flood the entire Fiserv Arena in MKE: https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2024/07/i-stand-corrected
And hell, I’m pretty much convinced that The Big Lie is gonna work, and we’re gonna lose. I’m just not stupid enough to think that swapping out the best President of my lifetime is gonna make things better.
tam1MI
Also, it’s worth noting that Dean Phillips could roll into the convention make an excellent case that he should be the nominee because he got the second most amount of actual votes while Kamala Harris has never won a single vote in any national primary, ever.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@BeautifulPlumage: Appreciate the compliment
I do hope this means I simply got caught in guachi’s wake.🥺
BeautifulPlumage
@opiejeanne:
that was metaphorical – I’ve had it in the sayings for a couple days and enjoy having our trolls spout words from Jane Austin & Carrie Fisher & etc.
guachi
@Slightly_peeved:
A longer reply that doesn’t mention Reps since it’s actual voter sentiment that is the problem for Biden, not nervous Reps.
I’ll outsource my reply to James Medlock on Twitter (most famous for winning $1 million in a bet). People who think it’s all online or all elites are just so, so wrong.
Saw some extended family (D +100) recently and asked everyone if they’d prefer Biden stay in, swap in Kamala, or open convention (without giving my opinion, 1 on 1 where possible). Obviously not representative, but fun anecdotes. All Californians not on political social media
Therapist, late 30s: unsure what the relative polling looks like, but after the debate feeling like a swap to Kamala is called for [husband agrees] Semi-retired nurse, 70s: leave joe in, shouldn’t shake things up [editorializing, I get a sense of old-person solidarity here]
Professor, mid 60s: likens it to a great baseball player who doesn’t know when to retire, respects Biden and thinks he’s been great but strongly in favor of replacing him with Harris Retired math teacher, late 60s: don’t care, voting green party (voting dem down ballot)
Chef, late 60s: worried, but thinks this is all the media’s fault, they’ll do this to anyone, leave Joe in – complains that even MSNBC is biased against him and chasing ratings Small business owner, early 70s: [agreeing with above] it’s too late, just leave him in
College student, early 20s: get Joe out of here, it’s embarrassing, thinks anyone can do the job of the presidency but doesn’t think he can win Retired professor, 70s: Kamala – she appeals to the voters we need and raises salience of abortion & weird racism that alienates people
Retired social worker, late 60s: emphasizes winning is most important, thinks Joe isn’t up for it, seems like Newsom would be her first pick but likes Kamala and worries about the optics of skipping over her
Overall, notable how much age polarization there was. No one under 65 wanted him to stay, above 65 was about 50/50. Everyone aside from the green party guy would vote for Joe if he stays, and everyone would vote for any replacement. Broad sense of urgency and anxiety.
It was funny to me how many ideas were expressed that mirrored tweets I’ve seen, despite these people all being offline. The chef was very stancil pilled, despite never having heard of him. The retired professor was on a similar wave length as I am. Twitter is sort of real life!
Hob
@BeautifulPlumage: There are people who do that— hang around a place they hate, and tell everyone how much they hate them and how shitty a place this is, over and over— without being paid. And they have no idea what a weird creep they are for doing this, they only know that they are CORRECT and being TREATED UNFAIRLY and talking to FOOLS. This includes the several people I’ve run into who like to flex their progressive spirit by hanging out on right-wing blogs and yelling at the assholes over there. Political ideology is secondary to the basic weird creepness of anyone who has it in them to hang out insulting people in a place they hate for days and weeks on end.
catbirdman
@Splitting Image: Remember when Biden couldn’t remember the name of Lloyd Austin during an interview with BET earlier this week and just called him “the black man”?
Chet Murthy
@Bruce K in ATH-GR:
Does anybody here remember Piketty’s _Capital in the 21st Century_ ? That book where he showed that over all modern time the rate of return on capital exceeded the rate of growth in output (loosely speaking, of the economy as a whole) ? This inevitably led to capital taking over more and more of the economy, of the wealth of the nation/world. And the only way that this got fixed, was via -wars-.
More and more, I come to see the wisdom in that last statement. Even our own rich guys, the so-called “stationary bandits” or “sane billionaires” are just not trustworthy to act to save the system on which they rely. It’s pretty disheartening (in a long, long, run perspective; compared to the prospect of doom in six months, it’s a nit of course).
BeautifulPlumage
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
your block quote included the link to their comment so your comment was pied. I hadn’t seen the pathetic mewling before you quoted it.
BeautifulPlumage
@Hob:
you make a good point. Very true. Both sides doi t (TM). But it’s still very sad
TS
Why has NO_ONE called on trump to drop out – what an absolute s s this all is. Has the AH even mentioned the people who were shot/died in the shooting at the rally. I’ve not listened to a word trump says so haven’t a clue but all the reporting is ME ME ME ME in between the nonsense.
This is when you take up religion and hope there is an afterlife so we can all get there and point and laugh.
M31
let’s replace the NYT’s fake, pivoting, serene spiritual Trump with the real thing and see if anyone notices
oops
JWR
@Chet Murthy: Thank you for posting that. Damn good stuff! No idea what “coconut pilled” means, but I’ve bolded the best part, or one of them.
NotMax
@TS
He French kissed the fireman’s helmet tonight.
guachi
@JWR: All of those folks are idiots as it would require someone to actually throw their hat into the ring and as of now no one has. You can’t nominate someone who doesn’t want it. It’s only an open convention if Biden endorses an open convention. If he endorses Harris it’ll be Harris. This isn’t hard.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: And even though I don’t really French, the French provided the best vocabulary for my disgust. Imagine.
@BeautifulPlumage: Just win, baby.
-Someone, it seems, once knew better
Geoduck
@TS: They did a bit with the jacket and helmet of the firefighter who died, but they spelled his name wrong on the jacket.
LanceThruster
@guachi: – I like the quote “I am a well wisher in that I don’t wish you any specific harm.” – Moe Szyslak
It was appropriate to condemn the assassination attempt, but wishing him him a speedy recovery was unnecessary, particularly if him being the next Hilter isn’t just hyperbole.
Mocking him making a big deal out of it as it was just a scratch or whatever downplays the fact that it was a few centimeters off from being a potential kill shot. That’s serious stuff. Saying it isn’t would be like having a loved one (children quite often the victims) almost run over by a car, and then seeing their trembling in fear as a silly overreaction. Whats the big deal? They missed?
I’m glad it was not lethal, not for any particular love for Trump, but rather because of the chaos that might have followed. It’s bad enough the curious details about security failures. Beyond that, little makes sense. Lone wolf with problems most probable, but again, security lapses add such a bizarre wrinkle.
If the close call happened to Biden, stochastic terrorism would be pointed out as what brought it about. The rhetoric directed Trump’s way could have played a similar role, and certainly the doom just over the horizon scenarios, true or exaggerations, generate elevated fear levels that everyone handles differently, particularly the unstable.
But neither would I mourn Trump. He hurts quite a few people by his actions, and compared to deaths that are actual tragedies, he’s had a good run.
I wouldn’t much mourn Biden either for pretty much the same reasons. I have no expectations for Trump to be anything other than a POS. But the horrific deaths and dismemberment of Palestinians under brutally cruel conditions as their entire world is being obliterated around them because of his direct actions and shameful inaction, means he has so very much blood on his hands.
My wish for anyone is for whatever they wish for Palestinians.
I have no idea the context of people wishing you dead, but doubt they could be defensible. Goes with the territory I suppose. There are Biden defenders who insist that his participation in what is happening to Palestinians in not only necessary but just because [reasons]. His unconditional support (“no matter what”) is about as much of a green light for war crimes and genocide as one could ask for. This could be stopped with a single phone call. Let the Leahy Law serve its function.
Much/most of Congress is bathed in the same blood. I would shed few tears again for the same reasons. An individual trying to use the rationalizations would be seen as the sociopathic monsters they were. A nation state using the same excuses gets a pass.
Political leaders so thoroughly insulated from the consequences of their actions get a pass. Like Trump thanking providence for his survival, I leave it in the lap of the gods.
Like Moe, I can be considered a “well wisher”.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@LanceThruster: Alert! Alert! Danger, Will Robinson.
VFX Lurker
@catbirdman: That’s not what Biden said, but thank you for trying. Here, have some delicious pie.
guachi
@LanceThruster: I wasn’t talking about the posters wishing Trump dead. I was talking about three posters in a single thread wishing me dead for pointing out that polls showed voters (in various demographic forms) wanted Biden to withdraw and that Biden was doing poorly in the polls relative to Senate candidates. That the call for Biden to withdraw was not limited to “elites”.
They wanted me dead for presenting the kind of information you’d think people on this blog would actually want to know to make an informed decision. And no one that I saw in that thread so much as said one peep about it. It’s truly unhinged behavior that I assume has been going on so long it didn’t even phase anyone.
@VFX Lurker:
Biden may have said “a black man”. He wasn’t really clear in speaking. But it’s true he forgot Lloyd Austin’s name. I don’t really care that he didn’t remember his name, though.
LanceThruster
@Chet Murthy: I remember a commitment to those that voted for them to Force the Vote. AOC morphed in the protector of Mama Bear. Mama Bear has morphed into one (reported at least) ready to provide the shiv.
Like the joke about Julius Caesar, “At least he was surrounded by friends when he died.”
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Going by this dude’s blog, he was one of the Righties who rushed over the Left to go fighting in Bush’s War of Terror, and saw what a crock of meaningless death and destruction it was, saw the light, and back to tell us it’s the Left’s fault we he wasn’t willing to listen to us.
piratedan
@catbirdman: that’s not true. period.
The conversation with BET was in regards to the diversity in his cabinet, he referred to the Secretary of Defense in his administration as, “a black man”. He was making a contextual point that minorities hold real positions of power in his administration.
you want to talk about forgetful, DJT on a national stage just mentioned starship, starship something and I’m pretty sure he wasn’t attempting to refer to the old rock band out of San Francisco.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@WheatBoy56:
The tag team relief has arrived for Guacimole! Howdy, comrade! Avoiding the front in your day job?
Slightly_peeved
@guachi: that’s a no then.
It’s funny how the newspapers keep a count of every rep asking Biden to stand down. It’s almost like they’re the people who actually have control over how the process of replacing Biden goes.
And they want a contest.
guachi
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I know you didn’t respond to me but I’m really confused on who you are talking about here.
LanceThruster
Trump sounds like someone asked to stall for as long as he can because the featured speaker is late. Won’t hurt him with his base in the least. It may be rambling and disjointed, but you can understand the words, and there’s a recognizable sentence structure. He’ll use this as proof of his stamina and ability to speak off the cuff (choosing to do so to this extent in an acceptance speech seems rather nuts). If Biden makes it as far as an acceptance speech, Trump’s sure to brag his went longer.
guachi
@Slightly_peeved: It’s an irrelevant question. What’s the point in answering an irrelevant question? The people asking for Biden to withdraw isn’t confined to the universe of Democratic Representatives. Actual real voters by the millions want Biden to withdraw (or not run) and those polled have been saying it over and over in responses to pollsters.
206inKY
@Ksmiami: We’re obviously fractured here, but the fight of our lives really starts when Biden passes the torch to Harris with support of the full party leadership. If there are bad actors wanting fuckery, they are going to try to undermine Harris’s status as the only possible replacement with any shred of democratic legitimacy owing to her status as vice president,
We need to fight for Harris even if we hate each other. The grievances over Biden’s deposal can be litigated later when we have more information.
Our full-throated support for Kamala has to engage immediately after Biden passes the torch and it can’t relent until other pathways are slammed shut. There is zero doubt of Kamala’s ability to prosecute the case and lay out a vision that will inspire enthusiasm, and this is where bad actors want to gum up the works. We know better. Kamala instantly puts the sunbelt back in play and so much more.
LanceThruster
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Fish heads fish heads, eat them up yum.
Slightly_peeved
@guachi:
voters don’t decide the replacement. The reps do.
Aussie Sheila
@Chet Murthy:
Well I’m not convinced the Dems are going to lose this year. Not at all.
The sooner the idiot savants and their puppet masters are left behind by people rearing and wanting to get campaigning, the better. Once this god awful rnc misfit toys show is over, the games should begin.
Polls simply tell you the distance you need to go. They don’t tell you who will be first at the finish line. Don’t ignore them but don’t let them be your master either.
Oh, and thanks for the link to AOC. Balanced, rational and shrewd. As always.
Slightly_peeved
@206inKY:
I think this is what should happen if Biden steps down. But the point guachi is trying really hard to avoid is that the party leadership don’t want it.
Roberto el oso
@guachi: you keep repeating the supposed death wishes directed at you. I must have missed those. Do you remember which post these were on? I’m not saying I don’t believe you, but ….
Ishiyama
“Sign the papers, old man…. I said sign the papers ….
“I can’t; you broke my fingers.”
How are they going to get Joe to quit, when 2/3 of the Democratic voters want him to stay?
guachi
@Slightly_peeved: The delegates do. And I’d be willing to bet that almost every Biden delegate (which is almost all of the pledged delegates) will do whatever Biden tells them to do. And the rules say you can’t vote for someone who doesn’t want it.
If Biden wants Harris it’ll be Harris.
Slightly_peeved
@piratedan:
he also talked about Hannibal Lecter as if he was a real guy. And a good guy. Again.
prostratedragon
@Roberto el oso: Cognitive dissonance is as dead as irony lately.
Slightly_peeved
@guachi:
That’s not how the nomination works. Once he releases them they can vote for whoever they like.
If it was as simple as you said, then why are the reps talking about a contest? Do you know how conventions work better than congresspeople? When you didn’t even know they hadn’t endorsed Harris?
LanceThruster
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: If any of that is in reference to me, I’m truly confused. If not… same.
Could certainly provide blog history details. It’s not much. I think I set up one or two pages and didn’t do much with it/tem.
LanceThruster
@Chet Murthy: “the grampa after 5 drinks” line is epic.
LanceThruster
Bless their hearts. Victory pie all around!
Sister Golden Bear
@lowtechcyclist: Also worth noting, Harris hasn’t yet been through the MSM-laundered wingnut wulitzer shitstorm that would be unleash the moment she became the official nominee. So in a sense, the polls reflect the best case scenario for where support for Harris is at the moment.
To be clear, I’m not saying she hasn’t encountered some of that, rather than the volume will be jacked to 111. It not like all the Republicans (and Democrats) who’ve been trying to kneecap Biden will suddenly treat Harris with kid gloves.
Also not to say that Harris can’t improve her polls numbers, nor that she can’t win, rather it’s currently she’s a theoretical presidential candidate not the actual candidate, with all the implications.
Aussie Sheila
@Slightly_peeved:
I obviously don’t know how the Dem conventions works, but AOC’s reference to the legal difficulties in various states if a completely new ticket was hoiked up at said convention set off alarm bells. Not that I have ever though the Biden/Harris ticket should go anywhere except to the election, tbc.
But her post about how Dem lawyers couldn’t answer obvious questions with certainty if the ticket was dumped, should finish this talk forever. The scope for fuckery appears to be limitless.
Anyone care to bet how it would go if appealed to the current USSC?
I would bet actually. In the event of such a case, it would go with maximum damage to the Dem ticket. And if anyone here, or anyone actually wanting Dems to win, for reals, is willing to roll the dice on a USSC decision, they should leave politics and join a circus.
LanceThruster
@guachi: : – I realize that. I was tying it to the entire question of political rhetoric that regularly assigns blame in violent actions of these sorts, and how often “drop dead” is thought of as an appropriate response in political debate.
I was weighing in because you said no one objected. I was objecting.
Sister Golden Bear
@BeautifulPlumage: Baud is off planning his campaign to win a brokered convention. “Baud 2024. He can’t be pantsed because he doesn’t wear any!” /s
Sister Golden Bear
@Geoduck: FTFNYT: Trump’s speech made attendees listen to Vogon poetry instead. Here’s why it means Biden must
step asideresign now.Chet Murthy
@Aussie Sheila:
To be sure, I am acting as I would act if I thought we had a decent chance to win. B/c I’m not a fool, and I know that if you don’t act to win, then you’ll lose. And in that vein, I think Biden’s our best chance; Harris is our second-best chance, and anything else is …. well, I’ll still act the same way, b/c I’m not stupid and I know what the consequences of a loss are, but anything else, I’m convinced WASF.
Slightly_peeved
@Aussie Sheila:
what she said about wanting to ditch the whole ticket lines up really well with what the people asking for Biden to step down have studiously not said.
I’m strongly opposed to kicking out leaders without really good reason, because of the last 20 years of Australian politics, but that’s a hunch. The lack of any planning for a post-Biden party is a clear, serious problem.
guachi
@Roberto el oso:
Not a death threat but this was one:
Keeping a list for the purges to come:
That’s the only one left that I can find. It looks like some number of comments were deleted as I can’t find comments I know existed. Though the above quote was the best death wish
I got called a “quisling” (i.e., traitor) for daring to side with the majority of D voters that want Biden to withdraw. Quisling was notably executed for his treason. That was fun, too. Can’t find the comment, though.
Baud
Hi all, just checking in. I assume everything is going smoothly in my absence. See you in a few weeks.
Chet Murthy
@Baud: Your ears were tingling? Everybody’s been discussing you!
LanceThruster
The question of replacement is simplified somewhat by doing it sooner. And everything concerning electors hinges on it being Biden’s choice, and then if an endorsement of Harris by Biden is binding at any level. If it’s a convention fight, any argument of someone being a much better bet than Harris doesn’t sound likely, but if they pressed it, it pretty much reveals their priority.
Sister Golden Bear
@tam1MI: Or if Harris is nominated, blame her for losing the election.
It’s really been noticeable that the vast majority of folks trying to push out Biden, never mention Harris as his replacement — even though that’s literally what the VP’s job is. It’s always some, unnamed, Johnny Unbeatable who’s supposed to be taking Biden’s place. Who’s implicitly a white man just like the members of the Coup D’etat Donor Caucus.
prostratedragon
@Chet Murthy: Good book. Also notes that the surplus wealth increasingly goes toward the various was of guaranteeing it, like controlling the political process and taxation. If people really were thoroughly rational* they could be persuaded to go along with at least some moderate wealth distribution policies, but I fear knuckleheads might need knuckles.
______
* My guess is that invariant “rationality” is more a useful standard assumption or starting point in academic models than a thing most economists truly believe sums up human behavior, though there are some you’d have to get drunk for them to admit it. Rational models give definite results, while irrationalty is like Tolstoy’s unhappy families.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Roberto el oso:
I did suggest that he gas light elsewhere by filling a room with propane and lighting it. Just a suggestion that might be useful. At this point it’s clear that there are a couple of people here who are acting in bad faith while professing not to be doing so.
They want to change minds here and they are on a mission to do so. They’re not just here to express their concerns, they’re here to do a job and they’re hard at work doing it. A big part of it is to be seen as being accepted into the general conversation here, as if what they are saying is the general consensus at this site.
They aren’t just dropping their opinions and leaving it at that like I have seen a few regulars do. There be rodent copulation a goin’ on so don’t get fucked by them.
LanceThruster
@guachi: “Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.” – Mark Twain
Tony Jay
@Baud:
Yup. Fine. Just clearing the way for your acclimation at the Convention. Bit messy, but the history books will tidy that up.
We’ll drop you an e-mail on your personal server once everything is lined up. Pants optional. 🇺🇸 💥✌🏻
Aussie Sheila
@Slightly_peeved:
It’s a batshit crazy idea. Parliamentary politics are obviously different, and it’s caucus members who dump a ticket or PM, although our experience shows it’s never a great idea. But in the context of US politics, it’s fucking batshit.
In any case, the trump ticket is so obviously mad, bad and dangerous that if Dem apparats can’t make a successful case against it they should retire en mass.
I’m very confident in rank and file Dems by the way. I think, as someone once said on a Jan 6 day in 2021, ‘they’ll fight like hell’ to save their democracy.
guachi
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Yeah. You also wished me dead and it was completely ignored by everyone. I forgot to count that one because it was kinda lame. I assume calling for the death of apostates around here is so common now that no one really cares.
I’ve been online for 32 years and wishing people dead would get you a temp or permanent ban on any other discussion forum. Is that not the case here?
Roberto el oso
@Odie Hugh Manatee: thank you, and yes, this particular commenter has had the aura of ‘bad faith’ since he popped up a few days ago (although I think I’ve seen the nym off and on in the past). I asked about the ‘death wishes’ just out of curiosity and frankly, they were pretty mild as those things go, tempers being what they are of late.
Sister Golden Bear
@Hob:
Obligatory: Someone is wrong on the internet.
Roberto el oso
@guachi: I haven’t been online for anything as close to what you say you have been but I’ve seen plenty of what you describe as ‘death wishes’. I take it you never frequent Lawyers, Guns, & Money, where ‘die in a fire’ is a standard dismissal.
At any rate, your continued presence would indicate you don’t actually take them any more seriously than they were intended.
guachi
@Roberto el oso: My god, it’s been worse around here? What has this blog turned into? I’ve never, ever been on a moderated discussion forum that was as bad as this one is right now. No wonder almost no one bothers to go against the hive mind. They’d get shouted down.
It’s clear such behavior is encouraged by front pages so I assume that’s why it continues.
This blog was once populated by sane people. I see no reason to leave as long as there’s a chance the sane people will return and the insane will leave.
Ishiyama
Are you under the impression that this forum is moderated? Freedom Hall; say what you like.
LanceThruster
@Odie Hugh Manatee: I just put in my two cents. No expectations to sway anyone. I’m still gobsmacked that regardless of the replacement question, the denial of diminished capacity and what it means as far as campaigning successfully seems what is not being addressed honestly. But Biden never had my vote to lose for a number of reasons. A courageous change sounds promising to me, but my expectations are still quite low. I’ve not a lot invested in it, and will play absolutely no part in what is ultimately determined. But it still fascinates me the team effort it takes to lose to Trump. You’re currently tied in a best of three and this one is for all the marbles.
Tally ho!
:—–:
“The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory but progress.” — Karl Popper
Aussie Sheila
@guachi:
My observation is that the regulars here don’t agree with you that dumping a very recently endorsed ticket is a good idea or great strategy just over 100 days before the actual national election.
Since you obviously haven’t changed any minds, why don’t you go plow your particular field among people whose minds you might change?
The fact that you keep trying to change minds that are obviously made up indicates that you don’t have any particular strategy, but are relying on tactics.
That signals loser.
guachi
@Ishiyama: Yes, it is. I’m fairly certain comments can be deleted and posters can be banned. It’s happened before.
LanceThruster
I am aware of all internet traditions.
guachi
@Aussie Sheila:
There are regulars who agree with me they just don’t speak up much anymore. Kay does and she’s about as regular as they come.
Changing minds first requires people to acknowledge facts but almost all of the “keep Biden” folks can’t even acknowledge facts and evidence as such. That signals loser.
Over and over again most people on this blog won’t even acknowledge the fact that voters have repeatedly said Biden shouldn’t run or, now, that he should drop out. It’s utterly baffling that people on a political blog somehow missed all of this over the past 18-24 months.
Darkrose
@Aussie Sheila:
This is brilliant. Thank you.
Origuy
A few hours ago, most airlines in the US were grounded, apparently due to a Denial of Service attack on the Microsoft Azure cloud servers that their traffic control systems were hosted on. This may also have affected Microsoft 365, OneDrive, and other processes hosted on Azure. From what I’m seeing, the target was a group of systems in the Midwest. The servers are back up now, but I’m sure the airlines will be messed up all day Friday.
Aussie Sheila
@guachi:
I respect Kay. I don’t know her irl, but she strikes me as someone who knows her onions when it comes to politics.
I get people can have good faith differences on the topic.
I just think that someone who’s so obviously invested in a risky strategy to dump a recently endorsed ticket like you should be somewhere irl, where your views can make a difference.
It’s not here, is my point.
Jay
Thanks guys for taking the “stealth trolls” to the trash bin.
Grouchy beats extinct Guaicuruan for a real nym.
So, got the full deets, so far. T’s cancer stage will be determined after the CT scan. (Size, mass, distribution). Bloodwork is not in yet so no word of free floating cancer cells yet. She get’s to eat again and has. So step by step, just keep putting one foot in front of the other. That’s how you walk forward.
hotshoe
@sab:
I am going to be furious and miserable if I have to write in Joe Biden’s name in November, if those money boys and yellow Dem reps manage to force him out.
It would be the first time in a very long life where I didn’t vote for the Dem nominee.
I’ll be careful to check whatever box I need to, so my vote will count for Biden. Thanks for the reminder!
Bruce K in ATH-GR
Something, I don’t know if it’s heartening or not, but one of the few reasons I keep checking Twitter is for people like J. Michael Straczynski of Babylon 5 fame (nitter.poast.org/straczynski). His speculation is that maybe the money men are getting a sense that, in his words, “you could run a watermelon against [Trump] and it would win”, so they want their own man (noun chosen carefully by me) in Biden’s place (given that Biden’s been good for ordinary workers, not so much for the money men).
I still hold to my prediction that either the GOP or the USA will be dead within the next twenty years.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Baud: I just want to tell you good luck. We’re all counting on you.
sab
@hotshoe: A suburb near me had an election where a precinct committee guy got zero votes. He protested that he had voted for himself, and his wife swore she had also.
On the recount they found that no one had filled in the bubble for ‘other’. You are supposed to fill in the bubble and then write in the other name. They hadn’t filled in the bubble. They just wrote in the name. So the computer counting ignored them.
I can’t remember if he won the recount, but he did pick up a bunch of votes from others who hadn’t filled in the bubble.
JWR
ICYMI, both Stephen Colbert and Seth Meyers were quite good, post-debate.
Aussie Sheila
@Bruce K in ATH-GR:
My intuition exactly. The money people hate Biden because :
1. He is pro union, and
2. In his second term he’s going to give it to the billionaires good and hard.
IMO, it’s as simple as that.
Hang in there.
The trump/vance ticket is the ugliest least vote getting ticket ever launched against the US polity.
I believe the Dems will mow them down.
sab
Also too on replacing Biden. I would be very sceptical of any possible candidate who would be willing to have his name (we know it would be a him) rammed into that slot in the face of all those primary voters who chose otherwise.
Aussie Sheila
@sab:
Precisely. You fuck over your rank and file, you’re fucked over for good.
Period.
Toss Biden/Harris, you don’t have a functioning Party afterwards.
Those are the stakes imo.
Chris Johnson
I think the fact that this is a Russian influence operation is actually really important, and speaks to how it’s being directed and managed. Their behavior has been consistent since before 2016 and they’ve had to escalate impossibly much since Trump is such a trainwreck, is in so much trouble, and since their needs are so dire.
The fact that the whole RNC is an abject shitshow with the only people left responsible for doing anything or being celebrated, useless Russian-supported hacks, is the biggest hiding in plain sight ever, and those who enable it are becoming beyond obvious.
Rudy Giuliani falling down on camera. Paul Manafort smugly parading around. Matt Gaetz openly bullying Kevin McCarthy until other attendees call him an asshole to his face on the floor. Trump bloviating insanely until after midnight and getting worse and worse, with nobody to control his epic zeppelin-bonfire, on live TV.
This is what being taken over by the propaganda arm of a dying empire gets you. You look an utter fool, and hapless media people at (real or metaphorical) gunpoint have to burn their careers to the ground defending you. It matters because the nonsense being purveyed isn’t authentic, so it’s heavy lifting and spawns backlash.
It does matter lots that this is all derivatives of a Russian op (aided by creeps like Thiel who want to be in the ensuing power struggle when Russia dies). Nobody expects these people to win, they’re being run as destroyers.
If they did win, Russia would immediately begin paying their leftists huge sums to start throwing bombs. It matters very much that it’s Russia trying to implant a Potemkin administration for a second time, against far higher odds.
frog
I have been watching YouTube reaction videos on Trump’s convention speech. The conclusion is Trump is beatable if Dems stand pat. It gets dicey if Biden is pushed out.
How delicious it will be if Trump’s speech is the equivalent of Biden’s debate.
Aussie Sheila
@Chris Johnson:
Yes it’s terrible, but while I don’t doubt Putin is enjoying himself, I’d be careful ascribing this shit show to Russia entirely. The US Right has been a global threat my whole political life.
This particular manifestation of it is just dumber than usual imo.
The explanation of this moment simply can’t be laid at the feet of Russia entirely. Propaganda only works when it goes with the ‘cultural and political grain’.
Chris Johnson
@opiejeanne: I’ve said before, Balloon Juice is the politics blog of a middle-aged ex-Republican with a commentariat that’s always been from all over the map. We only swung as hard left as we have, because the Republicans went to absolute shit, and even then there’s healthy pushback and questioning of just about everything.
I wouldn’t blame anybody for evaluating this place as a key spot to find swing voters and influencers. It’s kind of a fulcrum. Not a lot of point in assigning a bunch of flagrant and/or stealth trolls to Red State, is there?
You get different narratives on Daily Kos, or engaging with Vaush. Some places have always been blanketed by discourage-trolls, doomers to make people not be engaged. In this blog the best tactic is to try the ol’ Monsters Are Due On Maple Street tactic. Rile people up and make them fight each other. So it’s gotta be a little more sophisticated than just blanketing a place with ‘boohoo I give up’, folks here have more backbone so they have to be made to fight each other or fight the very people who are actually representing and keeping faith with them.
Jay
@Aussie Sheila:
The calls are coming form inside the house.
Aussie Sheila
@Jay:
Yes. Exactly.
hotshoe
@Chris Johnson:
No wonder Joe Biden and the sane percent of Americans are having trouble nowadays — we’re being attacked by three (overlapping) sides.
As you say, there is the never-ending Russian operation.
Then there is the side of the money boys, Walmart and Amazon and whoever owns NYT — as far as I know, not actually corrupted by Russian operations but merely in the money game for bragging rights to other billionaires. As I would phrase it, they’re destroying “free-market-capitalism” in hopes of “captured-market-feudalism” which makes them appear to be on Putin’s wavelength. But we as a nation would have our problems with those MoTUs whether Russian existed, or not.
And on the third side of attack, there are the state and national politicians who attack democracy. They’re overlapping with Russian ratfucking and the money boy’s corruption, but they bring their own group perspective to hating their fellow citizens and (unlike the Russians who can’t vote directly) they pass undemocratic things like voter suppression laws to keep their own power.
No wonder we’re tired. It’s a big fight!
Chris Johnson
@Jay: I’ve got all the stealth trolls pied, including ambiguous folk who’re greatly distressed yet will not hear or respond to real argument, only emotional soothing so they can amplify being distressed, contagiously.
Ain’t nobody got time for THAT.
As for guachi, that poster is among a few who’ve been so determined, and so openly working the ‘not stealth at all’ beat, that I don’t even pie him. It’s not stressful when it just works as a reminder that some guys seemingly punch a clock and come in to hammer away on the anvil that is us.
Beau of the Fifth Column sometimes wears a T-shirt that says ‘break the hammer’. I don’t have to be insulated from all trolls and fools. I try to avoid ones that interfere with me keeping a level head, namely the folks who work anxiety but won’t engage on any realities at all. Ones that just yell at me are no big deal. They can FOAD :D
Aussie Sheila
@Chris Johnson:
Except people here aren’t fighting each other. A couple of trolls roll in to no effect other than general annoyance.
I think the general roll call here is very representative of normie Dem opinion. As such it should be respected. When that opinion tells you not to roll over a democratically elected ticket, you ignore that at your peril.
In any case, ignoring rank and file activists is simply political malpractice wherever you are on the map.
When you find yourself on the other side of your own base, you are ….fucked, I think is the technical term.
Shalimar
@LanceThruster: I don’t see any signs of diminished capacity. Biden had a bad night where he was not thinking quickly, but it wasn’t like even then he was babbling bullshit like Trump does. My step-dad in his 80s had several periods which lasted for weeks where he was basically incoherent due to drug interactions and infections. He recovered each time and was still highly intelligent though frail when he finally passed away. Biden has proven over and over in speeches and interviews that his mental ability is still fine.
Chris Johnson
@hotshoe: I’d just like to remind folks that anytime we’re asked to believe our own folks have turned on us and are clearly all conspiring to wreck all our sandcastles because they’re just EEEVILLL that way…
I’ve been hanging out in leftist circles for years. I recognize that narrative and how it’s pushed.
Demand receipts. I’m given to understand Adam Schiff is an asshole (and deeply into crypto, which also means he can be tracelessly bribed, sort of).
If there aren’t receipts, if it’s ‘allegedly’ and ‘staffers’ and ‘people familiar with his thinking’, not only is it made-up bullshit, but it’s made up by people who are familiar with libel and slander laws. Watch for the tells! Demand receipts.
hotshoe
@Aussie Sheila:
Great minds think alike ;)
While I was typing my reply to Chris …
you said it first.
And you’re sure correct about:
including about fifty year span when they passionately detested Russia and schemed against Russia in proxy around the world.
Aussie Sheila
@Chris Johnson:
Hmm. I don’t particularly like Schiff, but I would be wary of ascribing such nakedly self serving goals to him.
I don’t believe you.
I think he’s wrong, but I don’t believe he’s that self serving.
It’s not good to diss people like that even if you disagree with them politically. It only feeds the frenzy.
Betty Cracker
There is no nefarious cabal with the power to oust Biden as the nominee. Party leaders, voters, the media, donors, etc., can bring great pressure to bear, but ultimately, Biden has the pledged delegates, so it’s his decision.
If he’s not at the top of the ticket come November, it will be because Biden chose to relinquish his hold on the nomination. And if he does that, you can bet your ass that it will be on his terms, including input on how a successor is selected.
Democratic leaders pressing for Biden’s exit know this, and they also understand that they need Biden to enthusiastically endorse whoever runs in his place, or the whole thing falls apart and they lose. Nothing will happen without Biden’s buy-in.
Jay
@Shalimar:
Small Mushroom Penis Ineffectually Flailing About is a Troll.
A better one than we often get, but they have worked hard since the debate to try to create a persona, after first being outed.
Current ruZZian pay scale is now $25,500 rubles a year for trolls , so 9X the median ruZZian income and $1600 less than the current salary offered to those willing to loot, rape, murder and commit genocide in Ukraine
Aussie Sheila
@hotshoe:
Well I think you have my politics wrong here. I’ve always been opposed to the degenerate state that Russia became once Stalinism sunk its teeth into that polity.
The anti Russian rhetoric of the U.S. Right wasn’t aimed at Russia, it was aimed at its own working class and the anti imperialist South.
Aided and abetted by most of the right in the Democratic Party during the Cold War.
That has changed, and now we see more clearly the outlines of the US Right and its historical place.
Chris Johnson
@Aussie Sheila: Schiff beat Katie Porter, using sketchy tactics, and so I don’t trust him. But had he not bucked the Democratic Party and become the public face of a Kremlin-manufactured narrative I would still not diss him.
Given the choices that man’s willing to make with the stakes as they are, I’mma diss him all day long and be happy about it. Schiff’s an asshole.
TBone
@prostratedragon: 😆
Aussie Sheila
@Chris Johnson:
OK, he’s an arsehole. But I think it’s a mistake to ascribe to his viewpoint such a nakedly self interested rationale.
That’s all.
slightly_peeved
@Chris Johnson:
As opposed to LGM, where the russian trolls looked at Erik’s comments and said “we’re paid agents aiming to destabilise an election and install a strongman but we’re still not as much of an asshole as that guy”
MomSense
@tam1MI:
I hope that doesn’t happen. Biden hasn’t exactly done her any favors with his statements of late that no one else could have put NATO back together etc. There are also many articles about how Biden’s team has undermined our VP throughout. You can chase those links if you are interested.
The big issue is that with trump being so obviously wretched Biden was unable to land a single punch against him in 90 minutes. Biden is unable to communicate effectively in this campaign. The stakes are too high for us to let this continue.
The complaints about Biden’s age have been getting louder for years. I was trying to counter them. It was getting worse. The videos circulating of the Normandy events were bad and I was trying to counter them in my circles by saying that videos were cropped or edited and that Joe was doing an amazing job on issues etc. I was looking forward to the debate because I had faith in Biden and his team that they were calling for the debate so that a fired up Joe could dispel the concerns and go after trump. The opposite happened.
Harris was always my first choice. I enthusiastically support her. And if you haven’t picked up on it, a lot of politicians who are sticking with Biden are doing so to protect their future runs in 2028. The Khive are definitely looking to protect Harris’ ability to run in 2028. I am of the opinion that trump is an existential threat to our democracy and if he wins there very well may not be an election in 2028 to protect. YMMV
For me protecting our democracy is the most important thing we can do.
I have also said that I will vote for the Democrat no matter what. I notice you have not said the same. Your vote up for grabs signals to me that you are more concerned about winning this argument than the good of the country. I hope that is not the case.
Regarding the primaries, I also voted for Joe. I trusted him and his team and it never occurred to me that he would seek re-election if he were not up to it. That there have been so many reports of him slipping in front of world leaders, at his recent fundraiser, in front of staff that I am furious that he didn’t step aside and really pass the torch to Harris the right way. He could have set her up to win. Now we are in a crisis and dealing with high risk options all around. I’m angry with him and his campaign for putting us in this position.
Also no one should wish others dead here. WTF I’m really sorry that happened to you, guachi. That’s unacceptable.
hotshoe
@Aussie Sheila:
I’m sorry, I must have flubbed what I was trying to say. What I’m saying is I agree with you that we don’t need to ascribe Russian influence as the explanation why the US Right behaves badly. Because the conservatives (the reactionary side of any US political party, whatever the party label) have been behaving badly for, I dunno, more than a century.
No doubt Russia/Putin has an advantage at the moment while the entire Repug party has lost its collective mind in Trumpism.
If Putin dies tonight we’ll still have a problem — the world will still have a problem — of 70 million USAians who have brainwashed themselves for decades into hating their neighbors.
WereBear
With the recent understanding of the lethality of what’s in the junk food, and the connection to Alzheimer’s and dementia…
it could be viewed as the corporate state destroying the monster they made.
hotshoe
@slightly_peeved:
made me giggle ;)
I’m only a spectator, and man that was a spectacle!
MomSense
@Chris Johnson:
In all the years I have been following politics the age and fitness of the candidates has always been a factor. If Biden being too old is a Kremlin manufactured narrative there is really nothing you can do to counter it because it is part of the long-standing attitude about presidents.
Republicans have been running with Biden has dementia since tthe last election and I’m sure Russian operatives amplified it. I always pushed back on it and Biden was able to as well. His SOTU performance is a perfect example. However Biden’s debate performance made a lot of people question his capability and a lot of people now believe the dementia smear. I am not saying that’s what Biden has. I’m saying after years of that smear Biden was not able to dispel that with the performance he gave. That’s unfortunately the situation we are in. Another reason he should have stepped aside a year ago.
raven
@MomSense: And so should have RGB but she didn’t and now what do we have?
slightly_peeved
@hotshoe:
Yeah – I’ve been going there purely to hurl invective at the front posters (Cheryl obviously excepted) but figured I should go do something better with my life.
TBone
Is Lou Dobbs still dead?
The Thin Black Duke
@MomSense: There is already a procedure in place to replace Joe Biden if he’s unable to finish his term a POTUS if he’s reelected to the presidency. It’s the VP. I don’t care if the Democrats have to do a Weekend At Bernie’s scenario until November. It isn’t as though there’s not a precedent (FDR, Reagan) for filing in for a commander-in-chief who incapable either cognitively or physically. Everything else is loud incoherent commentary dialed up to ’11’.
MomSense
@hotshoe:
Another one who won’t commit to vote for the Democratic nominee. Good to know. You are more loyal to a candidate than to protecting our democracy.
And I’m considered the troll.
MomSense
@The Thin Black Duke:
He is unable to campaign effectively. That is part of the job and he is unable to do it right now.
The Thin Black Duke
@raven: As you said in an earlier thread, bitching about the refs is for losers.
MomSense
@raven:
We have a nightmare SCOTUS.
Aussie Sheila
@raven:
Thats true, but RBG didn’t have a political base like Biden. She was a Judge, not an elected politician. She had a fan club, one I couldn’t ever understand tbh.
Nevertheless, point well taken.
If Biden falls over he has a very capable, intelligent and attractive understudy ready and able to step up.
If people are really going to go ahead and dump Biden, a mistake imho, it really has to be Harris that steps up.
If not, you are going to destroy your own Party.
TBone
George Conway knows what’s what. He’s doing ads that focus on the opposition’s obvious weakness. Short and sweet, stickin’ it to him:
https://youtu.be/NyRD47IBNmY
The Thin Black Duke
@MomSense: No, Biden’s job as POTUS is to manage this insane asylum called the United States of America. Besides, it doesn’t matter that Biden has been fine since the nothingburger of a debate, people have already made up their minds that Biden is incompetent, and I’m not jumping into that briar patch.
hotshoe
@MomSense:
sorry not sorry.
I haven’t considered you a troll or called you a troll, ever before.
But I might start doing that now that you have chosen to jump on me without any justification.
You don’t know me.
And you have no way of knowing how the popular vote will shake out in my state.
I can’t imagine what you’re getting out of being here tonight, umm oops, this morning, but I sure hope for your sake it soothes your conscience.
TBone
https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1813894490454917338
☝️ George is telling no lies
MomSense
@206inKY:
I agree completely with you.
TBone
https://www.psychopac.org/
Love it! Leading The Way.
TBone
Nobody is pissing in my Cheerios today. Life’s too short to allow malarkey like that.
The snake:
https://youtu.be/4pYSjxZfB6A
MomSense
@hotshoe:
Will you commit to voting for the Democratic nominee? It really is that simple. The rest is bullshit.
TBone
Remember, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
raven
@Aussie Sheila: The only person who can “dump” Biden is Biden.
Aussie Sheila
@TBone:
How would you know?
TBone
@Aussie Sheila: 😆
Aussie Sheila
@raven:
That’s true up to a point. But a lot of pressure from a lot of people who have been supportive in the past could make him do it against his better judgement.
My main issue is taking care not to dump on the Dem rank and file. That means the people who came out and voted for the Biden/Harris ticket in 2023/24.
Their opinion and will should be what guides decision making here, above all. If it doesn’t there won’t be a functioning Party.
Kay
@MomSense:
A couple of nights ago, one of the news channels had ordinary footage of the President getting off his plane – where they just let the camera run and they do the voice over. Biden could not get into the car without assistance, and I don’t mean a hand while he bends down and gets in, I mean an aide had to almost physically lift him into the backseat and then climb in and arrange him – I assume putting a seat belt on. This is what people see. “Media” didn’t do that nor did some cabal of billionaires – it was the same footage of “President getting off plane” I have seen my whole life. You can Google it – it went “viral” (supposedly). It’s easy to find.
MomSense
@Kay:
I did see it and wish I could unsee it. Former students, friends of my kids, so many young people are posting that video. These are all people who voted for Biden last time and turned out for the 2022 elections. I think we have lost a lot of them.
Shalimar
deleted, not my place to comment
Raven
@Aussie Sheila: When was it ever a functioning party?
Chris Johnson
@Aussie Sheila: Recently I’ve been of a mind to defend Dem leadership: I think I’ve identified more dirty tricks going on.
We’ve got media outlets putting out hit pieces that name specific Dem leadership, but there is NOTHING actionable in the claims. It’s ‘reportedly’, ‘allegedly’, in one case ‘according to people who know how he thinks’ (!!)
I have to believe that is because these are people with legal departments who know what is actionable as libel, slander etc. and are working with the legal departments to flood the zone with bullshit, without getting sued. And if they’re doing that, it’s malicious, because they’re checking to make sure they can’t be held responsible for what they’re suggesting.
And if it AIN’T all fake they’d be able to get more than Adam Schiff. Multiple times now I’ve gone and actually looked at one of those stories and it was ‘according to those in touch with the very highest levels’ which is legally meaningless, non-actionable.
And that implies if it’s more entirely made up mass-propagandized narratives, our Dems are actually solid and perfectly sound and aware of rank and file, and the thing is they CAN’T stop these stories coming out because the stories aren’t actionable and don’t actually say anything…
Kay
@MomSense:
At some point it becomes about the credibility of the pols and Party leaders denying it. I don’t trust them any more. They’re demanding I deny what I am seeing and hearing with my own eyes and ears. I’m supposed to say he did great in an interview where he can’t finish a sentence? What does that say about the person telling me to do that?
Kay
@Chris Johnson:
I wondered how you’d justify Pelosi, Obama, Schumer and Jeffries urging that he step down – are they part of the conspiracy now too? But no. You’re just going to deny they’re trying to get him to step down.
MomSense
@The Thin Black Duke:
If the debate was a nothingburger why did the Biden campaign call for it? The reality is that his approval ratings throughout his presidency have been low especially when you consider the accomplishments. I used to share the same opinion about the job of president but I was wrong. I remember a discussion here a month or two ago about how upside down the public opinion was on the state of the economy, unemployment etc. we were all shocked and rightfully blamed the media. I should have also realized that the president doing few interviews, press conferences and events is a problem because that is a big part of how they get their record out.
You cannot become president unless you execute an effective campaign. You cannot get re-elected unless you execute an effective campaign. You cannot defend the country from a fascist opponent and party unless you execute an effective campaign. It is absolutely part of the job.
Raven
@Kay: I’ve basically stayed out of this conversation but I see what you see.
MomSense
@Kay:
Thats what the young people I know are telling me. They are saying that we are gaslighting them.
Kay
@Raven:
Thanks. I appreciate it. This isn’t the 2020 Biden. I think he declined substantially just over the last year, which is probably why we saw less and less of him. I say that in hindsight. I didn’t notice he was appearing publicly less and less until I thought about it. Once you see you can’t unsee…
zhena gogolia
@Ksmiami: Absolutely a psyop. Putin is wringing his hands with glee.
zhena gogolia
So glad we’ve got a tag team going here.
I don’t care if Biden’s in a wheelchair. I don’t give a fuck.
MomSense
@zhena gogolia:
The night of the debate you commented we are going to lose. I would have more confidence in your psyop hypothesis if you would explain honestly why you felt that way watching the debate. Let’s start there with an honest look at the problem. We can disagree on how to handle it but denying what we experienced in that moment makes the opinions that flow from that denial lack credibility.
Raven
@Kay: I’m 75 and have been very active all my life. I know we’re all different but my decline is very noticeable and it has happened quickly.
Kay
@zhena gogolia:
Oh, yes. Everything is a “psyop”. I didn’t see the debate, I didn’t see the interviews after where he struggles to finish a sentence, I didn’t see the rallies where he can barely read the prompter, I didn’t see the footage of the aid putting him into the car like one would a child. This just isn’t going to work on normal people. We’re going to tell them it’s a “psyop”? Good luck with that.
zhena gogolia
@MomSense: I commented that after 5 minutes and quickly changed my mind. I have seen Biden in unscripted appearances multiple times after that, and he was perfectly fine (interviews, press conference). By the way, your only comment during the press conference was “Vice President Trump.” You hadn’t been here at all, you just jumped in to say that. Not cherry-picking at all.
What is your plan for winning the election if Biden is forced out and 14 million people are disenfranchised?
You say “how to handle it,” but I haven’t heard one word from you about how in reality that is supposed to be done. Nor from any single one of the people on here.
zhena gogolia
@Raven: And I’d vote for you over Trump in a heartbeat.
Layer8Problem
@MomSense: “WTF I’m really sorry that happened to you, guachi. That’s unacceptable.”
Maybe that one has receipts for the whole death threat thing. I don’t know, I’ve pied that nym. I’d feel terrible for the long-term value-free troll but won’t.
zhena gogolia
@Kay: Three weeks of media freakout after 20 bad minutes in a debate is a psyop. I heard months ago from a former student who works in the industry that the crypto bros (who are Russia-connected) were determined to make sure Trump wins this election. They’re doing a great job, with the help of weak Democrats.
zhena gogolia
@Kay: If you could let go of your ableism for just a moment, you’d remember that he has a speech impediment and has always had trouble articulating and finishing sentences. But you won’t. For some reason you’re really gleeful about the prospect of a Trump dictatorship. Which is what we’re going to get after the clusterfuck you people are proposing.
zhena gogolia
And it’s interesting that this post is about Trump’s disastrous speech, but you two don’t care about that at all. You want to harp on Biden’s debate and his neuropathy.
TRUMP DOESN’T WALK VERY WELL EITHER I don’t give a fuck
MomSense
@zhena gogolia:
Unfortunately that was the clip that has been shared millions of times.
What is Biden’s plan for winning? He won VA by 10 and was down by 2 in recent polling. NM VA AZ WI MI PA all look really bad. He spent hundreds of millions on swing state ads and his polling went down. He can’t keep going to funders if the more voters see him the less they want him to be president.
I’m furious we have been put in this position.
BellyCat
What is the benefit in discussing the nominee until we officially have a nominee? If creating internal divisions in advance is the goal, these discussions seem to be working.
No Dem wants to lose this election. What’s less clear atm is the best strategy to win it. Until a strategy is chosen, and we officially have an acceptance all we can do is wait and hope for committed party cohesion going forward.
zhena gogolia
@BellyCat: We have a nominee. He won the primaries. He won the last election and he will win this one if we help him instead of stabbing him in the back. Repeatedly.
zhena gogolia
@MomSense: What is your plan for replacing him and then winning? That’s the question I keep asking and not hearing an answer to.
Kay
@zhena gogolia:
Again, it is MORE than 20 minutes in a debate. It is every single public appearance, and that is with his extremely light public appearance schedule of the last year.
He can’t campaign and since no Democrat who isn’t in a deep blue seat will appear with him that means we won’t have a campaign.
He’s back at least 5 points and he can’t campaign. I think I can ask for a fucking candidate who can appear in public without driving his own numbers down.
Obama or Pelosi could have shut this down – they didn’t. What does that say to you? It says they’re not willing to destroy their own credibility by telling people they aren’t seeing what they’re seeing.
Kay
And, the absolute nonsense of calling people who want Harris racist isn’t going to work either.
Because it doesn’t make any fucking sense to claim that choosing Harris over the white guy who cannot campaign is “racist” – no normal person will buy this bullshit and they shouldn’t. You’re gaslighting them. Harris can do the job of getting elected, Biden can’t. This is about capacity and merit.
MomSense
@Kay:
Thank you.
BellyCat
@zhena gogolia: Factually, like Trump until last night at the RNC convention, we have a presumptive nominee.
And yes, attacking our presumptive nominee (Biden) makes no sense. What we do need is a final candidate, accepting the party nomination to get behind asap. Biden or otherwise. I could care less. My goal is to beat Trump like a rented mule this fall.
Nettoyeur
@tam1MI:
So you’ll elect Trump? Coz that’s the choice.
BellyCat
@Kay:
If only that were true (see Reagan). Electability is the ONLY thing that matters on Election Day.
Chris
@Aussie Sheila:
3. Betrayal. He’s the senator of Delaware, Inc. damn it. He’s not supposed to be pro-union.
I’ve said before that Biden has big Harry Truman energy, and this is one of the ways that’s true. Truman’s pick as VP came as a relief to the old guard of political machine bosses who were never comfortable with twelve years of New Deal radicalism, and thought Truman would be a party hack and a return to normalcy. Instead he turned out to be not only a staunch New Dealer in his own right, but worse, the first civil rights president since Ulysses Grant.
zhena gogolia
@Kay: You want Harris, my ass. You want Trump, for some reason. I’m done.
zhena gogolia
@BellyCat: I agree with you there.
Chris
@Aussie Sheila:
I’ll repeat what I said yesterday in Adam’s thread: something that’s always hammered home by historians studying the CIA’s classic coups from the Cold War eras is that those coups are never exclusively the CIA, maybe not even mostly the CIA. They’re always co-productions between the CIA and the ruling elites of the country in question, which is invariably riddled with authoritarian scum buckets. The CIA assistance undoubtedly stiffened their spine, but there’s nothing to suggest the coups wouldn’t have happened regardless.
The same applies to the KGB and its American friends in this day and age.
(See also, Vichy France).
Kay
@zhena gogolia:
nutty accusations, psyops, cabals running the country – it’s like fucking qanon in here.
every day for the next 90 days people will be seeing and hearing Bidens decline with their own eyes and the Democratic Party will be denying it. It ruins the credibility of the whole party and everyone in it.
we already have one bonkers, reality-denying political party – we don’t need another.
UncleEbeneezer
@Chet Murthy: I was skeptical of her loyalty to the party, as I am with anyone who leans so much on criticizing the party as much as she did early on. But she has been really great ever since and I’m thrilled to see it. And she’s been especially good through all this mess.
Kay
@BellyCat:
whatever. It’ll go great as long as you can keep the candidate from debating, giving speeches, giving interviews or getting into a car
The only people who will appear with him are D’S in deep blue seats. That isn’t going to change. So now our senate candidates can’t appear with the President.
Kay
@UncleEbeneezer:
“her loyalty to the party”
my god. Do you hear yourselves? WTF happened to this place?
Kay
The funniest part of the whole thing is that Bernie Sanders went from a Russian stooge to America’s Senator here, literally overnight.
So Bernie has extricated himself from Putin’s clutches? lol
Did any of you read the Sanders interview with the New Yorker? He won’t vouch for Bidens competency. He dissembled when asked to do so. Because he’s not a liar.
UncleEbeneezer
What I don’t understand are the people who have been lecturing us for years about $ In Politics and Backroom Deals being the worst evils in the world. With all this news coming out that this whole thing is nothing but big donors and Media elites trying to push Joe out, you’d think they’d be the first ones to say “Fuck that! We’re not letting some fat cat elites erase our primary: I’m with Biden!” If you’re so against letting billionaires
manipulaterig our Democratic process and take over our party, the obvious move is for you to stand up unapologetically and with your whole chest, FOR BIDEN!!!UncleEbeneezer
@Chris: With social media, these operations include all of us. We all have a much greater ability to spread or counter propaganda that everyday Joe’s didn’t have back in the day. Mothers of Massive Resistance: White Women And The Politics of White Supremacy, a must-read for anyone who wants to understand America, by Elizabeth Gillespie McRae really highlights how it was only a small group of Conservative women who effectively stopped the ERA passage by writing Op-Eds, mailing out fliers, handing out leaflets etc. filled with Anti-Communist hysteria, distributed by local newspapers and orgs like the American Legion. Nowadays we can all do so much more with social media and simply “liking” and sharing stuff that can perpetuate dangerous narratives for Dems. This is why I have never thought it wise for anyone to publicly, even here at a fairly back-water political blog, wring heir hands about Biden’s age. Everything we say/do/write feeds the algorithms and helps determine what “trends.” And journalists take a lot of their cues from social media.
Kay
Good for her and fuck him for blowing her off. What is this ridiculous behavior? He really thinks he can shut the whole Party up?
Kay
@UncleEbeneezer:
Well, you better start putting in 40 hour unpaid weeks propping him up, because he can’t campaign.
Maybe you can do it for him, but I doubt it, because no incumbent in anything other than a safe seat is going to come near him. Have you noticed none of the senators in swing state races will appear with him? Why do you think that is? Are they Russian spies?
opiejeanne
@Kay: You are being tiresome, and you’re wrong about Biden being unable to campaign. He’s been great at speeches and campaign events these past three weeks, haven’t you seen it?
As to needing help to get into a car recently, the man has COVID. I felt like crap when I had it and needed help finding my seatbelt when I was taken to the doctor; I sure as hell couldn’t drive. Needing to be helped into a car has nothing to do with being effective as a leader.
tam1MI
I’m voting for Biden this November even if it means I have to to write him in.
Write In Biden!
I like it. It has a ring.
Chris
@Kay:
Dear fucking God, Kay. The woman is a goddamn U.S. representative. This is not some elementary schoolteacher being visited after hours by the Thought Police because she may have done a crimethink in front of her students. Her party is central to her job and how it’s evaluated, and yes, it is absolutely fucking valid for people who vote at least in part based on whether a politician is a member of the party whose values and policies they’ve aligned with, to ask and consider whether she is, in fact, loyal to said party. I’ve always thought this was a groundless concern for AOC specifically, but then I’m not the one who needs reassurance. We’ve spent our entire lives watching good policies and good politicians getting publicly kneecapped by pieces of shit like Krysten Sinema, Joe Manchin, and Joe Lieberman precisely because preening for the cameras and donors is more important to them than pulling their weight for the fucking team. Voters, shockingly enough, like to be reassured that this isn’t what’s happening.
Chris
@UncleEbeneezer:
I posted something on LGM a few weeks before the debate whose crux was that the biggest problem with the Democratic Party (and really the entire political spectrum left of “always vote Republican”) is that everybody wants to be a political strategist and a political commentator, and nobody wants to just be a party member and a voter.
It aged very well very quickly.
tam1MI
What Kay doesn’t seem to realize or is willfully ignoring is that this is about more than Joe Biden. This is about defending democracy. This is existential. Because if the Coup D’Etat Caucus can vaporize the votes of 14 million people to get rid of the candidate she hates so much she’s willing to throw the election to Donald Trump just to get rid of him, they can do the same to the candidate she likes. The precedent will have been set. After Biden has been ousted, Kamala Harris will be easy meat. This is one of the reasons Bernie Sanders and AOC have been so steadfast in their defense of Biden, they know who’s next in line to get tossed out the 4th story window should the junta succeed in their plans. This shit has to get nipped the bud in right here, right now, or else the only choice we will have on the ballot come November is between open fascism and slightly less open fascism.
TerryC
@guachi: You seem easily baffled.
artem1s
@Chet Murthy:
Someone should remind Schiff that not one vote was cast for him to be the POTUS nominee in the CA primary. I wonder how many CA voters are going to trust him with a Senate seat if he dismisses their primary votes so cavalierly and can’t be bother to take any time to point out the asshole who tried to steal the election with bribes and fake electors in 2020.