Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Red lights blinking on democracyā€™s dashboard

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

If you still canā€™t see these things even now, maybe politics isnā€™t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

We won’t go back.

T R E 4 5 O N

Pelosi: “He either is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are.ā€ Why not both?

“But what about the lurkers?”

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Fuck that bum, let’s go Joe!

“woke” is the new caravan.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Iā€™d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

I was promised a recession.

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. thatā€™s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

Itā€™s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

We still have time to mess this up!

Letā€™s delete this post and never speak of this again.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Late Night Open Thread: Shooting Into the… Lite

Late Night Open Thread: Shooting Into the… Lite

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I don’t really hate you
I don’t care what you do
We were made for each other, me and you —
I wanna be somebody
You were like that too…



My personal theory concerning JFK’s assassination (and I am not alone in this) is that half a dozen different ‘security’ agencies were supposed to be keeping an eye on Lee Harvey Oswald, but they were more interested in surveilling each other than in their ostensible task. Thomas Crooks’ second-time-as-farce attempt, compressed for our instant-media age, seems to have involved multiple individual security personnel assuming that some other dude would step up, should the sweaty dude with a suspiciously packed duffle turn out to be dangerous…

The young man was pacing around the edges of the Donald Trump campaign rally, shouldering a big backpack and peering into the lens of a rangefinder toward the rooftops behind the stage where the former president would stand within the hour.

His behavior was so odd, so unlike that of the other rallygoers, that local law enforcement took notice, radioed their concerns and snapped a photo. But then he vanished.

The image was circulated by officers stationed outside the security perimeter on that hot, sunny Saturday afternoon. But the man didnā€™t appear again until witnesses saw him climbing up the side of a squat manufacturing building that was within 135 meters (157 yards) from the stage.

Thatā€™s where he opened fire, six minutes after Trump began speaking, in an attempt to assassinate the presumptive GOP presidential nominee. The gunman killed one rallygoer and seriously wounded two others. Trump suffered an ear injury but was not seriously hurt, appearing just days later at the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee with a bandage over the wound.

Now come the questions, and there are plenty. Multiple investigations have been launched, both into the crime itself and how law enforcement allowed it to happen. Itā€™s becoming increasingly clear this was a complicated failure involving multiple missteps and at least nine local and federal law enforcement divisions that were supposed to be working together…

At least future historians won’t be frustrated by the absence of reference material, the way they’ve been since panicked alphabet-agency agents hastily burn-bagged all Oswald-related materials. Plenty of data for the scraping, this time!

Fellas, is it good if you get shot at and a full quarter of respondents think you were asking for it?

[image or embed]

— Cooper Lund (@cooperlund.bsky.social) Jul 17, 2024 at 10:41 AM

Reader Interactions

317Comments

  1. 1.

    Soprano2

    I just saw that Sheila Jackson Lee has died due to cancer. She got a recent diagnosis

    I guess everyone is on the crazy TBogg thread.

  3. 3.

    Martin

    The hard truth is that until the second he pulled the trigger, law enforcement and every Republican would consider this registered Republican the ‘good guy with a gun’.

    Sleep well, Republicans.

  4. 4.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I posted about SJL in (I think) TaMaraā€™s respite thread. Is that cray cray earlier thread still going? I havenā€™t checked back in several hours.

    ETA: This was reply to @Soprano2

  6. 6.

    scav

    Profoundly unserious person tied to kill profoundly unserious person in front of profoundly unserious crowd. Ā News report by profoundly unserious media.

  7. 7.

    SiubhanDuinne

     

    @Yutsano:

    I see that late last night, which is to say very early in the sleep-deprived wee hours, I ordered two t-shirts on your specific recommendation. One red, for when Iā€™m feeling frisky, and one black for more formal occasions. Ā They have already been shipped and are winging their way Siubhan-wards even now.

  8. 8.

    Jay

    It’s really interesting how a single subject has become an obsession for a few people,

    So much so that they try to drag it into every thread, like used toilet paper attached to their shoe, or hanging out of the back of their pants

    Interesting, it was gone, now it’s back.

  12. 12.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @pabadger:

    I think the precise mechanisms (and sometimes the dictates of the calendar) for replacing MoCs vary by state. But maybe thatā€™s only the case for US Senators.

  14. 14.

    Chet Murthy

    @Jay: One definition of a “fanatic” I’ve seen is:

    “He won’t change his mind, and he won’t change the subject.”

  20. 20.

    Origuy

    Article I, Section II:Ā  When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies. [This is about the House.]

    Amendment XVII:Ā  When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct. [Some states do, some states don’t.]

  22. 22.

    rikyrah

     

    MeidasTouch (@MeidasTouch) posted at 9:33 PM on Fri, Jul 19, 2024:

    This is a voicemail we just received from a caller who is devastated by the treatment of President Biden. We receive thousands like this. The caller asked we pass this message along to President Biden and approved us posting it here:

    “I just wanted you to tell President Biden: don’t give up on us. Please stay in the race. I don’t know what’s going on with them, but he have passed so many laws. And I’m a church girl too, young lady. And I love your heart, president. And your spirit. We gonna go through rough times. But you’re going to be okay. And you’re going to come out strong. Don’t worry about what other people say. We trust you, and we believe in you, and we love you….I got a little tears in my eyes. Don’t let them divide us. Democrats, stop this mess. Stick with the president. Y’all say he passed all this stuff. Now, why y’all gonna desert him? Because older people have wisdom. And the man have so much wisdom.”

    https://t.co/Yw3xNxhIkK
    (https://x.com/MeidasTouch/status/1814488745263149081?t=pJ6LJLW_iiS6y4UDdj-A6Q&s=03)

  24. 24.

    NotMax

    @Jay

    Interesting is not the word I would choose. Pathetic, fruitless and tiresome all come to mind. Fruithetsome.

  25. 25.

    different-church-lady

    I’m reading this and I’m kinda like, “Oh, that’s right, the Trump getting shot at thing happened.”

  27. 27.

    Warblewarble

    I have a theory which is mine, the police guarding tRUMP learnt from the Uvalde police to stay clear of guys with an AR15.

  28. 28.

    Kelly

    Cats chased a mouse around the perimeter of our living room. Too quick for them. Don’t know where it went. Mrs Kelly moved some cover to give the cats an advantaged. Shrieked when it dash over her foot. Martin is now convinced it’s dangerous and keeping his distance. Phoebe remained on the hunt until she found her ping pong ball. After a rambunctious game of ping pong she’s back on the hunt.

  29. 29.

    Jay

    @NotMax:

    I find it kinda interesting, that a bunch of long term commenters that I would have considered being intelligent, insightful and sane, have become obsessive and unhinged over the past 3 weeks.

  30. 30.

    Jay

    @Warblewarble:

    It’s an open carry State for anyone over 21. Yeah, the kid was underage, but cops arn’t going to check ID on open carry.

    So basically, nothing could be “done” until he started shooting.

  33. 33.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @Jay:

    I know. I have lost a bit of respect for a few long timers here. I don’t know if we will win or not but that’s because that is the nature of it. I’m not wetting my pants over every perceived problem and rushing to air it for all to see. Eyes on the prize! It is so stupid for people to do this whining, as if it will change a damned thing other than for the worse. The ones calling for Biden to step aside and let Kamala take over are the ones that IMO are really full of shit. They’re not serious, they just want Biden to abandon his party and his voters while tossing her to the sharks.

    They’re the ones who don’t want us to win this fall.

  34. 34.

    VFX Lurker

    I re-enabled my Freedom blocker on my phone to keep me out of trouble on the Balloon-Juice comments section during work hours. I have caught up on the posts, but I missed the 800+ comment discussion. No worries.

    I did not write my Postcards to Voters today, but I did donate another $81 to the Biden-Harris campaign. My thanks to TaMara, the Balloon-Juice author who suggested it.

  35. 35.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Family Snapshot is such a haunting and disturbing song.

    ETA: Is it weird that I know the lyrics by heart?

  38. 38.

    piratedan

    @Jay: I think a LOT of people are scared (justifiably so) about Trump.

    Are there significant issues that have no easy way out… shit yeah, Gaza, Housing, the ineffectiveness of the DOJ come to mind.Ā  Certain people don’t feel seen or heard.Ā  There are reports of disaffection scattered about.

    I don’t deny those feelings or those people… yet I also have a very hard time buying into it as a driver of this revolt.Ā  I have a very guarded feeling that many of our friends are still being played (I haven’t forgotten the targeted ads and source information sponsored by Cambridge Analytical, have you?) and as far as I know, not much has been done to actually counter them from running it again.

    Most of what I have seen is the attempt to peel off white cis voters, much like how Trump was able to peel off white middle-class women before, just that the tactic is to paint Biden as diminished opposed to HRC being untrustworthy.Ā  While the press is doing that, rich tech bros that play both ends are threatening to turn off the financial spigot because Joe and Kamala have expanded the IRS and cracked down on Crypto and these guys are saying that despite them being obscenely rich, they’d just as soon not step up and make life better for anyone else tyvm.

    This has apparently caused some of the Dems to freak the fuck out and forget their constituencies (unless they’ve felt all along that their constituency was oily skeevy dudes).Ā  All the while forgetting that in addition to money, you have to earn some fucking votes.

    One thing came up in AOC’s instagram message that I’m not sure has been followed up on.Ā  She spoke about her primary race and how her internal numbers instilled fear in her campaign and they discussed internally that they were in a dogfight.Ā  Then the primary happened and she coasted.Ā  It made her wonder, if the same outfit was creating the internal polling for other candidates and if the methodology was just as flawed.

    That gave me pause with the thought that if the Rich controlled the media, would it really be such a stretch to think that their tentacles also hadn’t reached there as well?Ā  I dunno, but it was a chilling thought that made it seem that much more plausible after watching the media obsession over the last three weeks based on… one admittedly less than debate performance but plenty of public appearances since yet none of that got any air to the extent of the dump Biden campaign got.

    At first that looked like these were earnest concerns and as more information comes to light, we find out that Dean Fucking Phillips is behind the passthetorch bullshit and its also crypto money not wanting to be scrutinized.Ā  Ā  So it feels like we’re being astroturfed again (see Tea Party) which makes me just want to dig in my heels and tell everyone else to fucking get a grip.

    This sentiment is even further cemented by the fact that Biden has released multiple press releases indicating he is staying and the MSM still is pushing anonymous sources that still are doin’ casting shadows, decision imminent yada yada yada…

    So I can either believe Joe Biden or I can believe the media, so right now I am backing Joe because I gotta believe what he’s saying; especially so when I consider the bad faith that is in operation everywhere else.

  40. 40.

    Jay

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    on the bright side, we don’t have Mr. “this is my grindr handle, nude picks in bio” to pick on anymore.

    They dragged their shit into Adam’s post and both Adam and John dropped the banhammer, not a time out, a ban.

  42. 42.

    scav

    @Geoduck: But serious about who — rather than just the location? Ā Don’t know. Ā Anyone than catches a headline is somehow different. Just a different way of upping the bodycount with students or whatever. Ā Influencers with firearms rather than dance moves or makeup tips.

  43. 43.

    rikyrah

    Will say it again

    Split screen

     

    Reagan’s attempted assassination

    Vs

    What happened in PA.

    I’ll wait.

    And, why didn’t they have earpieces?šŸ¤”

  44. 44.

    moonbat

    I think Trump, being Trump, managed to dry up every ounce of good will he might have received for getting shot at (outside of his cult, that is) by first turning the moment itself into a war cry and next by wearing that ridiculous oversized bandage through the convention like a two year old who needs everyone to see his boo-boo. But to the normie, nonpolitical junkies the fact they he came out saying that it was due to Biden’s overheated rhetoric put the coup de grace on any rogue sympathy out there. Just patently false and self-serving.

  46. 46.

    Jay

    @piratedan:

    I think a LOT of people are scared (justifiably so) about Trump.

    None of our “obsessives” have expressed any worry about Project 47 or 2025. They are all pretty confident that they will either be last into the boxcars, become a Kapo, switch and become a Gaultlier, or do just fine in their gated community.

  47. 47.

    rikyrah

    @piratedan:

    For those of us whose humanity was legalized in this country due to Amendments to the Constitution, we are very clear about the stakes in November. Which is why our rage meter is off the charts with these backstabbing bitchassesĀ  in the Democratic Party.šŸ˜ šŸ˜ šŸ˜ 

  49. 49.

    Chet Murthy

    Has anybody been getting IMs from right-wing candidates asking for $$ ?Ā  I’ve gotten ’em from several.Ā  Don’t understand how they got my #.Ā  I always reply STOP to any fundraising appeal on my phone so no skin off my nose.Ā  And it seems like Google Fi is pretty good about recognizing that it’s spam, so lately I see (or, erm, -don’t see-) 2-3 spam IMs a day.

  51. 51.

    minachica

    @rikyrah: Maybe that explains the apparent lack of communication to make sure someone elseĀ was checking on the guy?

    // kidding, mostly

  52. 52.

    guachi

    @piratedan: Primary polling is very difficult to get right. We see it all over the map all the time. I think the more well-known the candidates are the more accurate the polls are likely to be.

    If you polled football fans on “who’s your favorite team” I suspect the results would be fairly accurate. People have strong opinions about that kind of thing.

  54. 54.

    Jay

    @Jackie:

    @Chet Murthy:

    It’s not “weird”. He wanted to be both “infamous” and dead. Shooting anybody really high profile, 34 Felonies (so far) Rapist Pedo guy would do, so would President Joe Biden, so would Taylor Swift

    34 Felonies (so far) Rapist Pedo was closest, and the venue was easy and weak. Taylor Swift would have been a much harder target due partially to the better security, but also the travel and ticket prices.

  55. 55.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: it’s not that it’s stupid for people to do the whining. it’s that fucking stoopid people are doing the whining.

    gaslighting, disingenuous motherfuckers talking shit and trying to take over every thread they can.

  56. 56.

    tam1MI

    @ssdd: I miss Lindsey Ellis on YouTube so much.Ā  I will never forgive the assholes who drove her off.Ā  :(

  57. 57.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    @Jay: nah,Ā  no one here is pulling a stephen miller or a ben shapiro. lately there’s just a flock of fucking gaslighting fuckfaces here who are being open in that they don’t think they’ll end up on the wrong side of the barbed wire.

    @tam1MI: in the pursuit of book sales, her editors “suggested” she get back on youtube. i love her quite perceptive videos. tentatively, she’s making new ones.

  59. 59.

    NotMax

    Heh. Checked on the status of the items order on Prime Days. The word small in the banner on Amazon is doing some heavy lifting. Am in no rush and realize what’s going on worldwide with the Crowdstrike whoopsie.

    “A small number of deliveries may arrive a day later than anticipated due to a third-party technology outage.”

  60. 60.

    Darkrose

    @strange visitor (from another planet): @tam1MI: in the pursuit of book sales, her editors ā€œsuggestedā€ she get back on youtube. i love her quite perceptive videos. tentatively, sheā€™s making new ones.

    Ooh! I love her; the essays she did on Cats and Love Never Dies are classics that I’ve recommended to students in the Theater History classes I work with.

  61. 61.

    tam1MI

    @Darkrose:Ooh! I love her; the essays she did on Cats and Love Never Dies are classics that Iā€™ve recommended to students in the Theater History classes I work with.

    I think my favorite video essay she did was the the one where she compared WAR OF THE WORLDS and INDEPENDENCE DAY.

    And her LAST OF THE GAME OF THRONES HOT TAKES: DRAGON LADY BAD! vid is an absolute classic.

  62. 62.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    @tam1MI: i think i first saw her years ago, with her hot mess: herculesĀ video. i really think she’s got a great perspective.

  63. 63.

    Bupalos

    @Chet Murthy: Iā€™m just assuming the subject this poster is talking aboutā€¦ but youā€™ll notice it did not appear in this thread, he or she is the one who introduced it, as a kind of attack.

    I guess Iā€™m reading yours as validating, when in light of this reality itā€™s actually a slam.

  64. 64.

    Jay

    Grouchy posted it, as # 6, it got pulled, posted it again at #9, got pulled again.

    FP’s have the ability to moderate comments.

    If they don’t want the thread derailed by a commenter with a single obsession, they can if they have the time.

  65. 65.

    guachi

    @Jay: I was told this blog wasn’t moderated? Was I lied to? So abusive comments can be moderated but aren’t when the people writing the abusive comments are part of the in-crowd. The clique gets to say what they want. Convenient, I suppose.

  66. 66.

    Chet Murthy

    @guachi: Sweet Jesus, can you not read the fucking room?Ā  You’ve made a pest of yourself.Ā  After how many days, how many HUNDREDS of fucking comments, will you decide that FINALLY, FINALLY, anybody who is reachable will have been reached?Ā  Can you not see that you are DRIVING PEOPLE OFF from your position by this incredibly impolite, antisocial, assholish posting behaviour?

    Give it a fucking rest, dude.

  67. 67.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @guachi:

    There’s no in crowd here. Some people are so detestable that they are not welcome here.

    Lucky you.

  68. 68.

    guachi

    @Chet Murthy:

    All I see are people verbally abusing anyone who says anything different than the group-think. This is acceptable and encouraged behavior. It’s “shut up and get in line”. Will you guys give it a rest with ordering people around? It is creepy and cult-like.

    I have not ordered anyone to shut up. I have not ordered anyone to get in line. And you think I’m the asshole? lol

  69. 69.

    Jay

    @guachi:

    Front Pagers can moderate comments. but that requires that they moderate the comments, which takes time and attention, and nobody here get’s paid.

    Front Pagers can also along with the Blogfather, put posters in time outs, or ban them entirely. If you are banned, you pretty much have to move to a different area and come back with a new nym.

    There is a Community Rules link in header, that explains all this and more.

    Unlike most blog sites, (eg. LGM), it’s pretty much loosey goosey here.

    I would suggest that you take the fact that you had your post pulled, and pulled again when you reposted it, as a very mildĀ  hint.

    There are lot’s ofĀ  Front Page posts of late, where your attempted post would have been fine, as it would have been on subject, but was pulled here because it disrupts any actual discussion.

    Basically, a hint you should not post your pet obsession in Pet Threads, Fundraising Threads, Ukraine Threads, Covid Threads, Anderson Threads, RIP Threads, Cool Threads, Authors threads, On the Road threads,……………….

    Basically, read the room before posting.

  70. 70.

    Chet Murthy

    @guachi: You stupid, stupid fool.Ā  The point I’m trying to make is that it doesn’t matter whether you are right or wrong anymore!Ā  You continually repeat the same goddamn points, over and over and over.Ā  Anybody who was convincable, has already been convinced.Ā  At this point, you’re just driving people away.Ā  That you can’t see this, is truly sad.Ā  Up above, I wrote about you (comment #13):

    One definition of a ā€œfanaticā€ Iā€™ve seen is:

    ā€œHe wonā€™t change his mind, and he wonā€™t change the subject.ā€

    Stop being a fanatic.

  71. 71.

    Joey Maloney

    Fellas, is it good if you get shot at and a full quarter of respondents think you were asking for it?

    I mean, just look at what he was wearing.

  73. 73.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    Just had a shower thought about the astroturf campaign:

    The money men are (unreasonably) afraid for their fortunes. The CBC and the Squad are (justifiably) afraid for their lives.

    I wish I could do postcards, but postage from Greece would be prohibitive, and Hellenic Post is a trainwreck that puts the worst days of the USPS under Louis DeJoy to shame

    (ETA: Er, oops, sorry if I’m badly off topic. Not yet caffeinated.)

  75. 75.

    Jay

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR:

    I wish I could too, but not American, so, Campaign Violation unless I get hired to do so by a PAC or Campaign.

    Then of course, some of the people your postcards would be going to, would be weirded out, “American’s live in Greece,………. Honey, where’s Greece”.

    There maybe a Biden/Harris outreach to expats/stationed military you could assist.

  76. 76.

    sab

    I just added my pointless bit to keep that endless thread going. Will it make it to 24 hours?

  77. 77.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @guachi:

    Jackals… what part of jackals are you having problems understanding? This isn’t some social club and there are no favored members that I’m aware of. Someone telling you to shut up is another day ending in y, not a life changing experience. Get off your poor, abused fainting couch and quit whining. You came here, said stupid shit and got responses. Other people said shit to you and here you are all butthurt about it. We went through this as kids, remember? Sticks and stones…

    If John took the step to ban someone then they really fucked up because that is a rare event here. Quit whining, there is nothing out of the norm here and nobody is being treated any different than you.

  78. 78.

    Jay

    @sab:

    Yup, I said along the lines of “some people don’t come here for the hunting”,

    said I was just there for the double TBogg.

    Missed the WP 2am “majick hour” but one poster didn’t.

  79. 79.

    Jay

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    Quit whining, there is nothing out of the norm here and nobody is being treated any different than you.

    well,…………………there is Baud,……………………………..

  80. 80.

    Betty Cracker

    So many points of failure in the Trump rally security story. One that leaps out at me: the cops/SS were concerned enough about the sweaty, nervous, duffel-toting dude that they photographed him, but when they subsequently lost track of him, they let Trump come out on stage and start yapping anyway? Thatā€™s inexcusable.

    It’s a shame the House is incapable of running credible hearings under current leadership because this needs to be addressed immediately and without dumb partisan show-boating. The next gun-toting loon might take a shot at a worthwhile human being, so we need a competent SS.

  81. 81.

    Lily

    Today a Russian court sentenced 32-year-old Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich to 16 years in a high-security penal colony after convicting him of espionage in a secret three-day trial.

    The U.S. government considers Gershkovich ā€œwrongly detained,ā€ a rare designation signifying that he is being held as a political bargaining chip.

    Today, President Joe Biden said that Gershkovich was ā€œtargeted by the Russian government because he is a journalist and an American. We are pushing hard for Evanā€™s release and will continue to do so.ā€

    He added: ā€œJournalism is not a crime. We will continue to stand strong for press freedom in Russia and worldwide, and stand against all those who seek to attack the press or target journalists.ā€

    Heather Cox Richardson, July 19-20 Letters from an American

  83. 83.

    Jay

    @Betty Cracker:

    Apparently, his SS detail, given the “credible” intel that the Iranian’s would be targeting him, advised him and his staff to move the rally to a more secure location, like a stadium.

    they refused, because it would cost more money.

  85. 85.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Lily:

    Yes, I was wondering when the US media might take notice of this outrage against journalists and a free press. Would it be too much to ask the US elite media to publicise this, by now, routine outrage by Putin?
    Oh, and before I forget, would it be too much for the Peter Bakers and Politicos of the world to ask trump or his fucking campaign spokesbots, what trump meant when he said that the journalist would be freed once he was elected, even before he officially took office?

    By now, itā€™s clear that commitment to the 1st A is theoretical when it comes to elite journalists.

  86. 86.

    Jay

    @sab:

    When the WP “majick” happens, most of us go back and edit, with in the window, “deleted”, “double post”, etc.

    Given how many times the dregs have been told, and ignored what they were told, I can see why they maybe left their comment up.

    Everybody is getting a little fed up with the trolls, sealions and obsessives.

    One troll took their road show to Adam’s Ukraine thread, and got the banhammer.

    An obsessive tried to post their roadshow, twice in this thread, but had their comments removed, then whined, and still hasn’t bought a clue.

  87. 87.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Aussie Sheila: they’re all too worried about losing their jobs. Never mind that the Peter Bakers and Jake Tappers have made enough money in their lifetimes that they would still be wealthy AF if they lost their jobs.

  88. 88.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Betty Cracker: it sounds likeĀ  bullied white guy loner was looking at Biden’s pics as well as TFG’s. He was also looking at porn before he shot TFG. Make of that what you want. I get the feeling he would have gone for Biden if Biden had happened to come to Bethel Park before TFG.

  89. 89.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Aussie Sheila: They’re not journalists.Ā  They’re infotainers, at best, more likely just media personalities, and at worst, they’re propagandists for billionaire parasites.

  90. 90.

    BarcaChicago

    @piratedan: I agree that this push to dump the incumbent is not an organic movement. That seems obvious to me. Itā€™s being done by someone who understands the weaknesses of the Democratic Party and the electoral process. The corporate media will handily carry any water needed. Big money donors, panicked elected representatives, scary but unfounded pollsā€¦ Itā€™s all there to be manipulated and cause chaos, dissension, weeks of campaigning lost, and the real goal ā€“ scrambling to change candidates right before the election and greatly increasing the odds of a Trump win. Iā€™ve never thought about anything in these terms before, but the fact is we are living in an unprecedented times. And from my understanding of how this works, and what experts have seen being organized by Russia to interfere in this election, I think that itā€™s not crazy to suspect outside interference.

  91. 91.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Lily: Rupert Murdoch is the publisher of the WSJ. Rupert’s ex who he shares a kid with is supposed to be good friends with Vlad. Rupert is probably on good terms with Vlad as well. Anyhow, Rupert can’t reach out to Vlad and get his employee released? It’s disgusting.

  92. 92.

    Jay

    @Aussie Sheila:

    It has been clear for a long time, dead Journalists killed by the IDF for example.

    It’s only “an issue” when they can use “it” to amplify “Their Masters Voice”.

    Here, on “Land Back”, the pipeline protests, the blockaids, I have to go to alt media to get coverage on how the RCMP Tactical Division set up to protect exploitive Corporations, are arresting the credentialed Press, seizing their gear, detaining them for up to a week in rural conditions, and criminally charging them, only to have the charges dropped 2 years later, because they won’t stand up in Court.

  93. 93.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    Yes. Which makes it all the more important that a popular front against fascism stops wailing about how unfair the elite media is, and concentrates on grass roots unity, solidarity and focus.

    I understand peopleā€™s frustration with the wapo and nyt. But from here, where we have no friendly media, elite or otherwise, itā€™s befuddling.

    The truth is in the name: NEWS!
    If itā€™s not new, itā€™s ignored.

    Memory is the business of political actors and writers.

    Not journalists.

  94. 94.

    Lily

    @Betty Cracker:Ā  I wonder ifĀ  something/someone inhibited the coordination or the rapid communication system between Sec Serv, Trump’s own security, and local and state police after the event had started. (Nat’l Guard too?) No single person in charge of all?Ā  Or not enough state police showed up?

  95. 95.

    Mai Naem mobile

    I kept on hoping one of the balloons coming down at the end was going to his TFG’s ear and knock off the bandage. A couple of Uday and Qsay’s kids were kicking the balloons and I kept of hoping they’d kick them towards gramps and his ear. It was interesting that Jr’s teenage daughter was sticking close to gramps’ right side in stage at the end,Ā  like her job was to sure nothing was going to hit his ear. They must have used skin adhesive to glue the bandage to the ear because it didn’t even come off even though he was perspiring quite bit.

  97. 97.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Certainly. Youā€™re right, and I love your nym and comments.

    But I donā€™t care what the elite Media, printed or broadcast does or says. I know it influences people, but far less now than 20 years ago.

    Itā€™s just that I donā€™t get the aggrievement Ā about the US elite and otherwise media here.

    They are a business. Their business is eyeballs and clicks.
    Itā€™s been deregulated for a long time where you are.

    They are increasingly irrelevant imo to the dissemination of views and opinions the way official pulpits became after the invention of the printing press.

  98. 98.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    The Murdochs are multi generational scumbags here.

    His father was a WW1 propagandist, Rupert is a sexually incontinent reprobate, and his favourite son skulks here in NSW in a country retreat 60 kms from Sydney.

    Theyā€™re hated here, and while they control 70% of our printed press media, their modus operandi is widely understood and derided.

  99. 99.

    Lily

    @Mai Naem mobile:Ā  I read a suggestion that Putin’s trying to ‘damage’, or else force a concession from, Biden.Ā  (On Ukraine? Or release Russian $Ā  held by the US? )

  100. 100.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Aussie Sheila: its not like there’s not wealthy lefties out there who could fund some small time media operations but they choose not to. Even Al Gore sold Current TV. I’m a radio person and there’s maybe half a dozen liberal talk shows in the country meanwhile there’s 2 or 3 Rush clones inĀ  every decent sized radio market.

  101. 101.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Lily:

    Heā€™s trying to bolster trumps campaign promise that only trump can free the journalist. Itā€™s beyond disgusting.

    Whatā€™s worse however, is the refusal/reluctance of so called 1A absolutists to call it out.

    Thatā€™s all anybody needs to know about their bona fides.

  102. 102.

    Jay

    @Lily:

    It’s an Open Carry State, as long as you are 21, you can walk anywhere in public with a loaded AR-15, lawfully,

    Until you start shooting, the SS and Cop’s can’t do anything.

    Gun rights trump human lives.

    But, if they had been black, or any shade darker than a paper bag, the unwritten rules would have come into play,………….

  104. 104.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    Yes, same here. But look at the explosion of alternative media outlets on social media. I know a lot of it is dross and worse, but I sense a real shift in the way information is disseminated and received.

    Think how the Church reacted to the invention of the printing press and the wide ranging social and political effects it had.

    Bad effect: The 30 years war which killed upwards of 20% of Europeā€™s people.

    Good effect: An agreement in many States at the end of it all that people shouldnā€™t be forced to worship as the sovereign demanded, although it was another hundred years before that sank in in many polities.

    The US Constitution is the best example of the depth of that historical understanding, created by 150 years of religious wars and social turmoil.

    The Agenda 2025 is so antithetical to this history that I have Ā a hard time believing anyone remotely normie in the US would have a bar of it.

    Of course that depends on people knowing about it.

    And thatā€™s where politics comes in.

  107. 107.

    WereBear

    The reason even steady commenters are freaking out because this is an existential crisis.

    Yes, corporate media works against us. Because they ARE lying, and screwing with the polls, and manipulating all of us with fear and confusion.

    Pretty normal response. But we all must get a grip and be aware without being paranoid.

    Fortunately, unlike the Q people, we do have facts and science and logical thinking. The reason we’re being told to throw all those away and be afraid is that the powers against are that big. That callous, that cruel.

    It’s scary. I’m sitting here in a cold sweat myself.

    But admit the truth. Some people would rather believe the lying polls. We’ve been given a huge hole in their defenses.

    Our enemies are lifting a weight which increases every time they must lift it again.

    CORPORATE PRESS WILL NOT TELL THE TRUTH

    So we must.

  108. 108.

    WereBear

    See, we all thought we knew how bad it was, and it turned out to be badder than that.

    By an order of magnitude. It’s us against the corporations, essentially.

    And that’s real Lord of the Rings odds, in our minds. Overwhelming.

    But I think we do have a leader. President Biden is risking his life and health to beat Donald Trump.

    The sooner we see the reality terrain, the faster we get a new plan.

  109. 109.

    WereBear

    The people being argued with on the TBogg thread believe the polls.

    They shouldn’t. They ARE lying to us. Keeping it neck and neck this whole summer. Because ratings are down.

    That is the level of responsibility that we are putting are putting our faith in if we believe the polls.

    I DON’T.

    That’s the argument. And it’s lost. They are screwing with the polls! It’s freakin’ obvious.

  110. 110.

    Aussie Sheila

    @WereBear:

    Iā€™m scared myself about the prospect of a trump victory. Itā€™s effects will be felt far beyond the US although itā€™s the broad mass of US people who will be effected first and worst.

    However in my experience, the best antidote to fear about what can happen, is to do something, however small, to fight back against the people who make you afraid.

    Doing something leads to worrying a little less, and thatā€™s important when thereā€™s a big fight ahead.

  112. 112.

    WereBear

    President Biden put out a message that said, “Don’t listen to the media.”

    With excerpts from the RNC acceptance speech, emphasizing the LIES.

    From Trump and the media. Yes. It’s a Borg thing.

    But this isn’t 1955. We have tools. We have talent!

    The media IS afraid of Trump. They’re afraid of a harsh word at a cocktail party! They’re afraid because that is the quality they have been picked for, by and large.

    I say, Make them afraid of us. In a “slink back into your holes and shut up” kind of way.

  114. 114.

    Aussie Sheila

    @SpaceUnit:

    Well it certainly multiplied at the rnc convention. What effing idiots wear a menstrual pad on their ear?
    Iā€™ll answer that.
    Fucking idiots, thatā€™s who.

    These mopes are eminently beatable.

    Donā€™t be scared of them.

    Thatā€™s what they want.

    They are fucking morons and skells.

    I am confident decent down to earth Democrats and their allies can and will beat them.

  115. 115.

    WereBear

    So that’s why the arguing. The people who still believed in The Press have come to a rude awakening, and that’s why they are not following along logically… they still think the things that are supposed to work are still working.

    This is 2024. We’ve got global software outages from an already-failed CEO. We have a failed health system in many red states, where women are left to die because it’s illegal to treat them. Or is it? We’re confused.

    We’ve got the press promising that long-delayed PIVOT to the PRESIDENCY they’ve been telling us would magically happen, and then their object of adoration went on for over an hour about how beautiful his ears are and they had to chuckle and say “Aw shucks, we were wrong.” And never speak of it again.

    NO. This is their weakness. Ask them how many years it’s been we’ve been waiting for the pivot.

    Make them admit it hasn’t happened YET.

  116. 116.

    WereBear

    @Aussie Sheila: Thank you, I utterly agree.

    We’ll calm down and do the right thing. That’s why we are NOT Republicans. That’s been a real people sifter.

    What’s the biggest thing the media is hiding from us?

    Our own strength. Which we can’t access when we are confused.

    Bless Joe Biden or whoever moved the debate up and started a long long long campaign season. We’re going to need it.

  118. 118.

    WereBear

    I’m still scared. No problem admitting that. But who stayed cool in the crisis? It was our President.

    He has shown the way. Push back on the media to tell the truth about Trump.

    Tell the truth about us?

    There were people hysterical that Biden “was invisible” when he’d done rallies every day. But the corporate media didn’t cover it.

    THAT is what we are fighting.

    I fight it with Meidas Touch and their network of commenters. The Joe Trippi show, which is about as middle of the road as it gets these days, but they use real data when they can. Dr Allan Lichtman got a phone call from a Biden aide saying the President is no longer listening to “fickle polls.” They all have podcasts and Youtube channels. Once again, Shrinking Trump, where actual doctors talk about Trump’s real mental health issues.

    Not imaginary ones, conjured from fear. Like what the media is inflicting on us. Find some grassroots, even local, source you trust. Because THEY ARE OUT THERE.

    And they are on the side of truth and justice. JOIN.

    From now on not a speck of bandwith to any corporate media from me. I google “news” with my worries and I get a list of ten major sources all of which are contradicting each other.

    Trust has perished. Walter Cronkite is no more. The FCC had no money to rein them in and now they are doing as the likes of Peter Thiel dictate.

    I thought good Democrats could have figured that out by now. The evidence is abundant, is it not?

  119. 119.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Martin: I read and support Pro Publica. It’s one of very few. And it’s tiny compared to the WaPo and NYT.

     

    @Aussie Sheila: lots of alternative media on social media but I’m not sure a lot of people have a bs detector to figure out what’s accurate news and what’s dis/mis information(Babylon Bee, Epoch Times) The sad part is you can’t even add it to your regular civics education in schools because the RWrs argue that that is indoctrination.

  120. 120.

    WereBear

    Dr,. Allan Lichtman uses the science of earthquake prediction to call the actual winner and he’s never been wrong. The courts have been, though, and we’ve already gone through how corrupt THEY are.

    He says, “Republicans have no principles. Democrats have no spine.”

    It’s true. We roll over to keep the peace. And that’s what our enemies (and this is not hyperbole, they are) count on. We’re too “nice” to make a fuss. They held us at bay with “tone” back in the W days.

    The scariest thing for AOC was “are they rigging the polls?” YES. THEY ARE.

    And if we complain they will call us Q. They have trained us all to obey them since Trump isn’t remotely soothing.

    But it’s all branches of Trump World now.

    But when is the last time our corporate media was right? They aren’t demanding Trump’s medical information. Which is arguably MUCH more pertinent, yet ignored.

  122. 122.

    Mai Naem mobile

    I haven’t watched Bill Maher in a long time but was flipping channels tonight and watched it. He had Pete Buttigieg on. Ofcourse Maher was being his normal douchey self regarding Biden but Buttigieg is just so good. If Biden does step down(and i think its suicidal for the Dems to do it now) Harris should pick Buttigieg as her running mate. I mean if we’re going to lose because Kamala’s a woman of color we may as well go down for running a gay veep. Make some kind of stride as the running theĀ  first gay Veep.

  123. 123.

    WereBear

    @Mai Naem mobile: And we lose. All such talk is avoiding the fact we already have a great leader in President Biden.

    “We went down with the gay candidate” sounds noble but people are going to get hurt thinking that way.

    I was doing that. Realized someone else is doing my thinking, then. We see smart man who is a good explainer. But the opposition sees a Gay Pride parade and demons.

    We can’t fight that. We can overlook the great leader we have if we do.

    BIDEN HAS DECLARED HE’S NOT DROPPING OUT.

    Why don’t we believe him?

  125. 125.

    WereBear

    @SpaceUnit: I am with you.

    And for the love of all that’s holy, no matter what we do, the opposition keeps making INCREDIBLE mistakes.

    We can’t interrupt them. We should take FULL and FAIR advantage of them.

  126. 126.

    Cacti

    @Jay: One troll took their road show to Adamā€™s Ukraine thread, and got the banhammer

    Yeah, Adam likes to try and ban anyone who disagrees with him. Poor baby.

  127. 127.

    Jay

    As the Clown show of “Investigations” start to ramp up, keep in mind,

    that these are the 34 Felonies and Counting Rapist Pedo’s “hand picked” Secret Service detail.

    They were picked for either being MAGgoTs all in the tank for 34 Felonies and Counting Rapist Pedo, QAnon’s/Jan6ers or being from Central Casting.

    Every single one of them had the option of “noping out” of the detail, which is what any other Secret Service agent with half a brain would do.

    “Sorry sir, I would rather spend my days looking at $1, $5 , $10 and $20 bills in Buttfuck, Ohio, trying to find SuperNote counterfeits , yes, Sir,Ā  I understand I would have to move,…..”

  128. 128.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    Yes I understand that. An outlet like Pro Publica is a niche media outlet. I would never expect such an outlet is a solution to the dilemma of a failing he said/she said media environment.

    However social media is so batshit and anarchic that clever partisans can make their own news.

    I donā€™t Ā expect everybody can make expertly curated choices. But people can choose who and what they are interested in. Itā€™s up to smart partisan groups to rise to the occasion. Above all, whinging about current financially hard pressed mainstream media outlets is beyond useless.

  130. 130.

    Tony Jay

    Itā€™s instructive that the self same verminoids at the FTF Guardian who ran negative stories against the previous Labour leadership whenever the Tories were in trouble are doing exactly the same thing to Biden.

    Exactly the same playbook. Almost like theyā€™re employed to shit on whoever might stand in the way of a lefter alternative to clickbait radical-conservatism.

  133. 133.

    Jay

    @Cacti:

    Troll didn’t disagree with him, just posted tankie/Gaza/Biden must go shit and blamed Adam for not covering all 47 current armed conflicts going on in the world at this time.

    We don’t shit on Anne Laurie for not covering the outbreaks of STD’s in “The Villages” in her Covid/now H1N5 threads and claim she’s a Biden Cult Member or Anderson for not covering the price of eggs in his Health Insurance and Management posts.

  134. 134.

    Jay

    @TBone:

    Today,

    How was your day at the lake? PicnikĀ  was gud, no bears?

    Srry, forgot you are in a different time zone.

  135. 135.

    WereBear

    @Tony Jay: The corporate press is about the corporate press. Before the R’s beat up the FCC and left it in a coma, it was used to fine the Superbowl over an accidental nipple, which should have been everyone’s first clue.

    Now Biden wants to bring it back, and there will be penalties for lying! So they joined the Republicans.

    Stop watching “the news” because it’s now a lie, as corporate practice. It’s something they hope will make stockholders happy.

  137. 137.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    Why would you lose if Kamala Harris were the candidate? TBC, I support Biden as the Pres nominee, but my view on that is worth squat.

    The US elected Barack Obama, and I fail Ā to see why your broad anti fascist electorate wouldnā€™t support Kamala. Yes sheā€™s a woman. But we are eight years past 2016, besides the right had years of demonising HRC.
    A good portion of the idiocy that passes for the non aligned US left have either moved completely to the right, where they belong imo, or they wonā€™t vote at all. This time isnā€™t Jill Steinā€™s time, I guaran fucking tee.
    Either way itā€™s a win.

  140. 140.

    Tony Jay

    @Jay:

    Ā  posted tankie/Gaza/Biden must go shit and blamed Adam for not covering all 47 current armed conflicts going on in the world at this time.

    Thereā€™s 48, you obvious tentacle of a malignant Deep State conspiracy! Why do you want the sheeple to be misinformed?!?

  141. 141.

    Gvg

    @NotMax: My order made early the first day got scheduled and delivered fast. The 2nd day orders were really pushed back even before the outage. I donā€™t recall that much difference in the past. I had deliberately pushed the first delivery back several days hoping I could get later things at the same time because I knew itā€™s crazy for the drivers, but no luck. I wanted a bunch of small things anyway. Cats are getting some tall scratching posts.

  142. 142.

    Chet Murthy

    @Cacti: Child, the vast majority of commenters here are perfectly happy with the moderation the FPers do, when they do it.Ā  Maybe you don’t like it.Ā  Y’know, you can always go someplace else.

  143. 143.

    Jay

    @Cacti:

    I guess you have never read the Community notes up in the header.

    Probably don’t read the Apple Warranty or the various “Terms and Conditions” then go all “Karen” on Customer Service.

    Basically you are the cover boy for “This Asshole Again” Children’s Book.

  145. 145.

    Tony Jay

    @WereBear:

    The last time I actually watched ā€˜The Newsā€™, we had a Queen and she was ā€˜unwell but gloriousā€™. Never again.

  146. 146.

    MagdaInBlack

    @NotMax: I work in collision repair and so deal all day with big name insurance companies. Quite a few of our “insurance partners” were still down at 5 when I left work.Ā  Down as in: no new claims coming thru and no electronic updates on claims all day. Got about 5 internal IT updates, each one adding to the list of who was down.

  147. 147.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @WereBear: i think it’s all to do with the redo of the Trump tax cuts next year. Big Business, Big Tech and Big MediaĀ  want the GOP in charge so that they can get their big fat tax cuts.

  148. 148.

    Jay

    @WereBear:

    C’mon, Bears may be large, furry, have neck beards, no fashion sense, but they are shy, funny, good dancers, and great people to hang with.

  152. 152.

    Chris T.

    @Aussie Sheila: I don’t know that we would (lose with a Harris-and-[insert-veep] ticket), but I do think our chances are better with a Biden-Harris ticket. The misogyny in this country is at least as deeply seated as the racism.

    Whatever happens, I’m up for voting D.

  156. 156.

    Gvg

    @Betty Cracker: I think itā€™s come up before, but Trump doesnā€™t actually listen to them. He charges them rent for protecting him, he overrules them on various things. He doesnā€™t believe the FBI or CIA either.

    And they canā€™t actually arrest or physically remove anyone without their basic consent. That would be kidnapping. The prior Presidents and other protectees have for the most part thought the secret service needed to do what they were doing and allowed it. Trump argued with them on January 6th.

    Now I suppose there are always discussions between politicians who need to be seen as approachable by voters and the SS who would prefer total safety and compromises. Still Trump is not that smart and not that realistic but thinks he is. I donā€™t see how the SS can be good in that situation. Surprising it hasnā€™t been more of a problem sooner.

  157. 157.

    WereBear

    I’m discovering that the incompetence and secrecy around the assassination attempt, as Trump bends it to his wishes, is creating its own conspiracy theories.

    Normies are demanding answers, and this is a puzzle worth their obsessive effort. The answer is “Trump has superhuman con artist reflexes” and that’s good for the normies to know. Grunge alone has three recent videos.

    And they are right. The whole thing’s hinky, but it’s Trump that is the planet bending the light rays.

    TRUMP is the hinky thing they are seeking.

  158. 158.

    WereBear

    @Jay:

    So basically, nothing could be ā€œdoneā€ until he started shooting.

     
    That’s exactly what I thought! And look at that. Their own Trump gun laws nearly killed him.

  159. 159.

    NotMax

    @Gvg

    The only thing I was running low on is rye flour, which was not on sale anyway, and normally takes from a week to 10 days to arrive in the best of circumstances. An additional day or three is no biggie.

    Looking forward to a nifty new folding bluetooth keyboard spotted on the sale. This one also includes a built-in trackpad (I have rotten luck when trying to use touch screens) to schlep along on the upcoming NY trip.

  160. 160.

    TBone

    @Jay: yesterday was amazing Ā I met my deceased dad’s doppelganger under a perfect sky. A volunteer Park Service ranger.Ā  He even had my dad’s first name! On the way to the lake, I stopped on a mountain top to check the huckleberries (they’ll be ripe for picking in the week or ten days).Ā  We listened to my CD collection for the road trip.Ā  I saw Biden flags in the tiny towns and on the back country roads, not one Rump sign. I swam, and also relaxed on a personal floatation device, ate a perfect lunch topped off by chilled fresh cherries, and a huge ice cream cone.Ā  The entire day was bathed in gorgeous light like we were in the south of France.Ā  Pennsylvania is so frickin’ beautiful in the summertime.

    No news. No drama. Nothing but AHHHH

  161. 161.

    MagdaInBlack

    @WereBear: I know my own casual conspiracy thinking started the moment i saw the clip. Hinky stuff is right.

    Eta: my thinking was they set it up themselves, but then, they ain’t that competent, so scratch that theory.

  162. 162.

    Jay

    @WereBear:

    @MagdaInBlack:

    Not my experience. They always, after a whileĀ  would awkwardly hit on me. I would have to explain that I am cis/het/poly and that I am just here with my girlfriend, ( years ago, now wife) and her girlfriend, and are guarding their purses.

    They would always be downcast, and I would always ask them a question to start a conversation. One time, I was surrounded by 6 bears and we were drinking and laughing when the girls came back from the dance floor, and they were like “whaat?”.

    I don’t dance, but T and her girlfriends wound up with 6 very good dance partners.

  164. 164.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @WereBear: I’m ridin’ with Biden.Ā  There’s a bunch of reasons beyond him being a good leader. Big one for me is I don’t trust the GOP to let Kamala and a replacement Veep to be on the ballot in the purple/red states and I don’t trust this SCOTUS in any litigation regarding Dem POTUSĀ  candidates. There are three people sitting on it who were involved in the Bush/Gore stuff.

    As far as Buttigieg if you’re a homophobe you weren’t going to vote Dem anyway and there’s a good chance there will be backlash if the GOP pulls their standard homophobic stuff on Buttigieg.Ā  His language isn’t as beautiful as Barack Obama’s but his communication skills at turning info into simple understandable nuggets are at Bill Clinton’s level. That’s a huge asset.

  166. 166.

    Jay

    @Cacti:

    It’s cute when you pretend not to be a LLM trained on Proud Boys Discord Servers and Epstein guest lists.

  168. 168.

    TBone

    @Jay: šŸ˜† I have that meme at the ready for deployment, good thing we can’t meme here since I have such a variety and also way too many and would be deemed insane.

  169. 169.

    NotMax

    @TBone

    Presume the gypsy moth infestations have been more or less controlled. Remember back in the 70s in the Poconos one could actually hear them munching away in their multitudes when walking through the woods.

  170. 170.

    Gvg

    @WereBear: well itā€™s not all lies and polls. Some of the real people watched the debate and really thought Biden did terrible. So telling them about fake polls and the need to not panic just makes them mad, because you are telling them not to believe their own eyes. I am talking about my parents. Other people too. I think Kay may have watched. I didnā€™t and never do. I canā€™t stand watching most TV and I hate Trump. I prefer reading. It always seems like people crosstalk, waste time and I read much faster. So thatā€™s not my style but it is my parents and I am not convincing them. They are about Bidenā€™s age and well I think there is some awareness of slipping with them so that may play into it too. There can be lots of personal issues going on with some voters.

    I still think itā€™s being mostly driven my media and money possibly with foreign influence but maybe only domestic. Lots of nasty short sighted stuff though.

  171. 171.

    Jay

    @TBone:

    That’s great. Glad you had a great time.

    Now, huckleberries, the ones we have here that are called huckleberries, t’əəxw, are pink/red, tart/sweet, and are related to a high bush blueberry, but both the leaves and berries are much smaller, half the size or less, they grow in the shade, and the flowers are like a tiny teacup.

    Are yours like that?

  172. 172.

    TBone

    @NotMax: the gypsy moths have been vanquished by the release of harmless black flies by Penn State a few years (5 or 8) back. The flies eat the moth larvae.Ā  My hubby doesn’t like the abundant but harmless flies, but they don’t bother me at all.Ā  We supposedly have a Lantern Fly problem but I haven’t seen any of those. Hope I never do!

  176. 176.

    NotMax

    @Jay

    In my make candles to order as a sideline days Atlantic High Bush Blueberry scent was far and away the first choice for the vast majority of orders.

  177. 177.

    WereBear

    @Gvg: Some of the real people watched the debate and really thought Biden did terrible.

    He did, and admitted it.

    They panicked, too, didn’t they? I get it. And if they don’t watch Trump, they won’t know how waaaaay out there HE is by comparison. Because the corporate media leaves out the whacky middle of his acceptance speech.

    They are suffering from a lack of information that makes Biden look like the possibly incompetent one… and the opponent, who is actually incompetent, skates.

    It’s how they ensure no one talks about Trump’s dementia.

  178. 178.

    Ishiyama

    One more time (from NBC):

    How the Democratic Partyā€™s rules work
    Party rules make it virtually impossible to replace Biden unless he steps aside. But some Democratic leaders have been delivering ā€œbluntā€ messages to Biden about his political standing and the broader implications for the party if he remains the nominee.
    If Biden were to step aside now, it could get messy, but the rules are clear: Whoever wins the majority of the voting convention delegates wins the nomination.
    If Biden dropped out of the race after being formally named the nominee, the rules cover that, too. A group of Democratic Party leaders would meet to recommend a replacement, and under current rules, a majority of Democratic National Committee members ā€” not convention delegates ā€” would need to vote to approve it.

    This is what you are advocating: Super Delegates voting at the convention, or old guard leaders in a private setting, will do the choosing for us. Do Not Want! (Or, “I say it’s spinach, and I say to Hell with it”.

  179. 179.

    TBone

    @NotMax: the woods on the mountain tops have a fragrance in summer that is life giving.Ā  Top it off wafting on the breeze with the scent of fresh lake water and you’re in heaven.

  180. 180.

    WereBear

    @TBone: The pine sap has antibacterial properties, which is why we have Pine-Sol.

    One reason why TB sanitariums were in the clean air of the mountains.

  182. 182.

    Gvg

    @WereBear: no they already know about Trump. I think they would still vote Biden. But others might not or might skip or might third party. Also might work less hard for democrats, be less enthusiastic, etc. Itā€™s not helpful.

    the media just not publicizing certain things also impact normie perceptions big time.

  183. 183.

    Jay

    @TBone:

    Wow,

    I grew up on the East Coast, Maritimes, never saw a Huckleberry t’əəxw until we moved to the Raincoast.

  184. 184.

    MagdaInBlack

    @Gvg: It was interesting to me, that, as I saw in a report I trust, that Latinos who watched, and listened to it thru an interpreter (is that the right word?) thought Biden won, and thought trump was a lying asshole.

    I’ll root around and see if I can find it.

  185. 185.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @WereBear: What surprised me more than anything about the aftershocks of the debate was seeing how much this countryĀ hatesĀ old people. Biden is the reflection of humanity’s mortality and it’s terrifying to a huge chunk of the electorate.

  188. 188.

    WereBear

    @Gvg:Ā the media just not publicizing certain things also impact normie perceptions big time.

     
    Of course. They haven’t had their existential crisis yet.

    The corporate media is in the tank for Trump. AND so is the polling. By as much as 8 points, or more, when we compare polling to actual votes.

    ON PURPOSE. We are being played if we believe the polls.

  190. 190.

    WereBear

    @The Thin Black Duke: Absolutely. The habit of denial is strong with complacent white people, certainly. They have the luxury.

    Ableist and ageist. “He walks slow.”

    Oh, right, the founders didn’t put that in the Preamble, you’d think they would have warned us.

  192. 192.

    MagdaInBlack

    @WereBear: I’m gonna burn some sage and hang a warding sigil over the door of this thread, cause i fear you may be summoning more chaos monkeys šŸ˜‰šŸ™‚

  196. 196.

    NotMax

    @WereBear

    Aware of it from elsewhere.

    Once the vast majority begin plugging in to the election during the weeks after Labor Day it’s a whole new ball game.

  200. 200.

    TBone

    @WereBear: we call that stuff pitch or pine tar šŸ˜ and it has many uses. If I’d had TB in the olden days, I’d wanna live on a breezy mountain top in a tree fort too.

    I actually can’t stand the scent of Pine Sol but that’s because I’m spoiled with the real thing.Ā  I have to go with lemony fresh scents.

    Unlike how it smells in here with the recent addition of desert flora.

  201. 201.

    WereBear

    @NotMax: Yes, that’s true too.

    But will normies’ heads explode — more than ours — as they grasp the huge dimensions of the hate that went into such a work?

    That is the question.

  206. 206.

    MagdaInBlack

    @TBone: Cedar scented closets make me think of gerbil cages…….

    ( why yes, I am having wake’n’bake, why do you ask?)

  208. 208.

    lowtechcyclist

    @WereBear:Ā ā€‹
     

    Dr,. Allan Lichtman uses the science of earthquake prediction to call the actual winner and heā€™s never been wrong.

    Only because when he’s wrong, he says, “Key n really means this” in a way that makes it fit when it didn’t.

    Seriously, I first read about his keys back in the 1980s and I kept a copy back in those pre-Internet days because I thought they were pretty cool. I’d already given up on him in disgust back in the aughts.

  209. 209.

    WereBear

    @lowtechcyclist: I don’t see it that way.

    Bush v Gore was rigged. We all know that now.

    But I’m not going to argue. I know we’re on the same side.

    As a science nerd, I find physics useful in many different ways. And people can make up their own minds. But when the media plants stories to challenge signs of age so they can cover up signs of much more severe problems in the other candidate, we can’t believe in “the press” or “the polls” either.

  210. 210.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @WereBear: I believe one of the most liberating moments of being a marginalized person living in White America was finally understanding that even though I was fiercely hated by people who I didn’t know and who didn’t know me, it wasn’t my fault, and knowing that they couldn’t be trusted. I could see the land mines that these liars told me wasn’t there.

  211. 211.

    Aussie Sheila

    @NotMax:

    ā€˜Polls are not predictiveā€™

    Exactly. They tell you how far you are from the finish line, not who will get there first.

    They shouldnā€™t be ignored, they are information after all.

    But they are tools, not soothsayers.

  212. 212.

    Princess

    @The Thin Black Duke: Most of the people I personally know who are trashing Biden, especially the ones who donā€™t see Harris as the only possible legitimate successor, are white men of a certain elite status ā€” who think of themselves as intellectually elite ā€” of a certain age, late fifties, sixties. Rebecca Solnit said what I had been thinking ā€” theyā€™re seeing a diminishment of themselves and their own importance which they project onto Biden. I donā€™t know how universal this is but itā€™s true in my world.

  213. 213.

    Cacti

    <a href=”#comment-9271691″>@The Thin Black Duke</a>: What surprised me more than anything about the aftershocks of the debate was seeing how much this country hates old people

     

    Ummm…yeah. The elderly just can’t catch a break in politics. That’s why our national politics are full of spritely lads and lasses like Joe Biden, Donald Trump, Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin, Chuck Grassley, Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein…oh wait, she died in office after deciding she should run for another term at age 86.Ā  Or the youthful Ruth Bader Ginsberg, cut down at a mere 87 years.

    It’s a tyranny of the young these days. šŸ¤£

  214. 214.

    Jay

    @NotMax:

    The Newfoundland experience is unique, Ask anybody who were guests of Operation Yellow Ribbon.

    My family were doing a homestay, back in the late 70’s. I woke up, not feeling well, just a post teen. So our hosts and the rest of my family went out to see the sights, leaving me at home under the care of their Grandad.

    He made me tea, and fish and brewis, (oatmeal, cod cheeks and lard), asked me if I was bored.

    I said yes.

    He said, “now don’t tell anyone, ever.”

    Took me down to the docks where he pulled the tarps off an old “pinky” schooner, and said, “I’m not supposed to sail this alone anymore.”

    So we went sailing, to Saint Pierre, (one of the two French islands off of Newfoundland) and back, with 6 metal 10 litre cans of grain alcohol on board.

    Friday night the kitchen party started, and nobody asked where the “Screech” came from.

    Accent wise, the Maritimes are interesting, There are Newbies, Newfies, Bretons, Digby, Passamaquaddies, Pie-er’s all with different English accents. Then on the North Shore and the Spur, well, there’s about 20 different “French” accents.

    When I was in Louisiana, the Cajun’s were always freaked that I could understand and speak Patois.

  215. 215.

    WereBear

    @The Thin Black Duke:Ā  even though I was fiercely hated by people who I didnā€™t know and who didnā€™t know me,Ā it wasnā€™t my fault

    Yes, the shame is gone, back to where it belongs.

    My own experience comes from growing up in a culture where women were supposed to be cute, obedient, and stupid. My prospects were dim. I was able to fix that by moving a thousand miles away, and still stay in my country.

    Now they want to impose their control fantasies on every state. So no one can get away.

  216. 216.

    Xentik

    @Ishiyama: Glad to see the media mentioning the actual rules. More people need to understand the consequences of Biden stepping down. The rules for the convention provide no means for Biden “endorsing” someone or handing over delegates to them. Once the candidate steps down, the delegates are free to vote for whomever, and there are no rules preventing lobbying of delegates by third parties before the convention. As evidence, see: Marianne Williamson Is Making A Play For Joe Bidenā€™s DNC Delegates. I doubt she can get many herself, but the megadonors against Harris absolutely could.

    Perhaps just as important is that anyone who can get 300 delegates to sign on can get added as a nominee at the convention. They have until 6PM the night before the convention starts to provide the list of delegates, candidate names, etc. If I were a donor, I would be picking out my candidate in a back room right now, and lobbying delegates in order to have the majority I needed if Biden steps down. I would wait until the night before to submit the candidate to prevent any publicity or opportunity for pushback before the first vote the next day, or to at least split votes enough so that a second round of votes occurs, at which point the super delegates can vote.

    I really hate to harp on this, but those who think that we will wind up getting a “better” candidate out of Biden stepping down aren’t going to get what they expected. I can understand the belief that Harris would be better than Biden, but if that’s what you’re going to argue you need to acknowledge how the rules work. The rules *do not* favor you getting Harris when there are a bunch of donors aligned against her.

    The rules can be changed of course, but it’s incumbent on those pro-Harris people to start pushing the DNC for that. If they won’t, they’re not really being serious about it. Everyone should agree that, with the stakes so high, we should be doing everything we can to avoid unintended consequences.

  219. 219.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @WereBear: It’s the difference between “having a black friend” and “knowing a black person you work with.”

  220. 220.

    Citizen Dave

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: I love your term “shower thought”.Ā  I’ve been having them for years–usually about work–but always felt awkward telling people “I had this thought this morning while taking a shower”, so usually it’s just “I was thinking this morning…”

  221. 221.

    TBone

    @Jay: šŸ’™ you made me remember

    One of my (many) fave books:

    The Shipping News, by E. Annie Proulx

    Gonna dig it out of storage for a reread

  222. 222.

    Jay

    @TBone:

    Salishan,

    As a settler living on unceded Indigenous lands*, I try to when possible reference the local native language.

    *under various British Colonial Acts, and the BNA Act, and the Articles of Confederation, we in the British Colony of British Columbia, were supposed to extinguish “Native” title to the land and resources through treaties, at the start and before we joined Canada. We didn’t. Sir James Douglas only managed to get 2 treaties through the Legislature before the Legislature decided that $200 in trade goods was too much money to pay for the bottom 1/4 of Vancouver Island.

    After that no more treaties, until the 1970’s when the First Nations started winning court cases. Coquitlam, Kwikwetlem where I live, has two small reserves, but their unceeded lands are worth about $122 billion dollars at current value.

  223. 223.

    Geminid

    @Princess: I think this frame fits some senior House Democrats like Jim Hines (CT), Adam Smith (WA), Adam Schiff and now Mark Pocan (WI). A know-it-all attitude despite a narrow base of expertise,

  226. 226.

    Ken

    @Jay: Seriously? We had someone who thought this was Facebook and was making “ORGAN IN BIO” posts? The things I miss when I have an evening out with friends.

  227. 227.

    Xentik

    @Princess: I suspect this has a lot to do with it. My experience is that the freak out (not counting the outside forces driving it) has been primarily among upper-class whites, and white men especially.

    I can’t remember who it was who mentioned it yesterday, but these are people who have never had to deal with any real existential threats before. Having to face something like the US government becoming fascist under a second Trump administration is more than they can process, and causes absolute panic. It’s basically the equivalent of a fight-or-flight response. A common first response to those situations is “Do something! Do anything! Now!”

  229. 229.

    Xentik

    @Kay: This is incorrect. The delegates currently are pledged. As it stands right now, the convention is a formality. Only delegates (not super-delegates) vote on the first round, and Biden wins by default in the first round.

    If Biden steps down at any point before the first vote, the delegates are released and may then vote for anyone (literally). Any votes for names that have been properly submitted as of 6PM the previous night are tallied, while those for candidates who have not are treated as “present”.

    Here are the actual rules in play for this year: DNC 2024 Call for Convention

  231. 231.

    Geminid

    @Xentik: One obvious problem with deciding this question at the Convention is that it would prolong this controversy for weeks when Democrats need to go on the offensive now, with a settled ticket.

    Proponents of the open-convention scheme might argue that the finality of an open convention will put doubts to rest.Ā  But the doubts will linger no matter what, so I say let’s get on with it.

  232. 232.

    TBone

    Fighting long term, chronic disease with fluctuating, weird symptoms well prepares one for the coming (ongoing) onslaught.Ā  You simply don’t give it any room unless you want it to take over.Ā  You have to, simply must, focus on what’s still worthwhile unless you want to drown.

  233. 233.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    heā€™s a campaign astrologer.

    Thereā€™s a concept called ā€œcommon knowledgeā€ – itā€™s not when ā€œeverybody knowsā€ something. Itā€™s when ā€œeverybody knows everyone else knows it tooā€ – a mass moment of recognition.

    Thats what happened to Biden and thereā€™s no coming back from it

    We didnā€™t just recognize his decline – Ā we watched others around us recognize it in real time. Thatā€™s common knowledge – that immediate, mass reaction.

  235. 235.

    Shalimar

    @WereBear: Bush v Gore was razor-thin.Ā  Anyone claiming their full-proof system definitively and correctly picked that race for either candidate is full of shit.

  237. 237.

    Xentik

    @Geminid: Yeah that’s a major point AOC made. She also pointed out that if the convention degenerates we could easily miss the deadline for the ballot for MI, which is two days later.

    I agree that we’re much better off going on the offensive now. The polls are moving in our direction, and we have consistently overperformed polls since 2022 by about +7. We should maximize our GOTV (since the RNC has none), push on Project 2025 and Trump’s lawlessness and insanity, and sell Biden’s successes.

  239. 239.

    Xentik

    @Kay: If Biden allows the first vote to happen, and *then* steps down, the Party leaders will instead decide who becomes the new nominee. That will happen in a back room without any input from us or delegates.

    See Section XI, Subsection G (p 20)

    Filling a Vacancy on the National Ticket: In the event of death, resignation or disability of a nominee of the Party for President or Vice President after the adjournment of the National Convention, the National Chairperson of the Democratic National Committee shall confer with the Democratic leadership of the United States Congress and the Democratic Governors Association and shall report to the Democratic National Committee, which is authorized to fill the vacancy or vacancies.

  240. 240.

    Shalimar

    @Kay: That sounds like gaslighting to me.Ā  I have not seen this rapid decline in Biden you keep saying I am supposed to have seen.Ā  Telling me over and over that I have does not make it true.

  242. 242.

    M31

    @Xentik: can you imagine the screeching if there is a rule change (no matter what) and the result is to advantage Harris?

  243. 243.

    Jay

    @TBone:

    When I worked in Tech, a bunch of my co-workers were from the Maritimes. Troy had a side hustle, (from Digby), where he would have his brother ship live LobstersĀ  packed in ice, via Air Canada and Troy would sell them. I pointed out that ziploc bags of frozen Digby scallops would last longer than the ice. Troy said, but what then will I do with the semi thawed scallops?

    I said, well, my idea, you you’ll eat half, and I will eat the other half.

    Ray, who’s now the Vice Chancellor of the RNONFL, his brother had a house in little NFLD, (New Westminster, 2 blocks from the greatest hamburgers in the world), would once a month, host a kitchen party. All the good “auld” songs, dancing on tables, the place would get trashed. His brother owned a cleaning company, so the next day, everything would be cleaned up, all the trash would be hauled, and all the furniture would be replaced from thrift shops. Half the music I love came out of those parties.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crIk87-mPzY

    Don’t you want to do a Celtic stomp on a cofee table hearing that?

  244. 244.

    Xentik

    @M31: Oh yeah, it would be impressive.

    My expectation is that a push to add those rules that looked like it was going to succeed would immediately end the clamor for Biden to step down.

  246. 246.

    Kay

    @Shalimar:

    Okay. But I don’t think you can change what others saw, and what you’re seeing is the reaction of Democratic politicians to what they see as “common knowlege”. The risk of denying common knowlege is they will lose credibility, too. They can’t unknow it.

  248. 248.

    Shalimar

    @Xentik: If Biden steps down after the first (and only) vote, then Harris has already been chosen by the convention and she takes his place.Ā  This is not what most of the anti-Biden people want.

  250. 250.

    WereBear

    @Xentik: It’s ALWAYS better to be on the offensive. Heaven knows the R’s believe in it.

    Just because we can persuade doesn’t mean it’s the only tool in the kit.

  252. 252.

    lowtechcyclist

    From the news stories I’ve been reading, the date of the “virtual roll call” hasn’t been set yet, other than it won’t happen in July, and still needs to happen before Ohio’s original August 7 deadline in case there are legal challenges to its having been postponed.

  254. 254.

    Xentik

    @Shalimar: Can you point to the section in the rules document where it says that? I have read through it and I don’t see anything regarding such a situation, but I certainly can believe I might have missed something.

  255. 255.

    Shalimar

    @Kay: No Democratic politicians reacted to what they saw by immediately calling for BIden to step down.Ā  Not a single one.Ā  What we’re seeing now is the result of over 3 weeks of pressure by media and big donors telling politicians what they saw.Ā  To me, that is the opposite of what you’re saying.Ā  The small percentage of people in the crowd who saw UFOs are convincing others that there were UFOs there.

  258. 258.

    Suzanne

    @Princess:

    Rebecca Solnit said what I had been thinking ā€” theyā€™re seeing a diminishment of themselves and their own importance which they project onto Biden. I donā€™t know how universal this is but itā€™s true in my world. 

    I read some stat in one of the many pieces I read this weekā€¦.. that the support for Biden is strongly correlated with age, especially strong in the 65-and-up age cohort. I donā€™t know how universal that is.

    Anecdata: I had some work travel this week, and I had some long drives with a couple of colleagues. One older than me with young adult children, one younger than me with a new baby. Both are strong Dem supporters this cycle, as they think Trump is psycho. The colleague with a son in graduate school said she has been talking to her son, and asking why he and his friends are not strong Dem supporters. According to her, he said, “We hate Trump, but Biden is too old and it’s depressing.”

    I have no strong feeling about what action would produce the best outcome at this specific turn of events ā€” apart from THIS IS TERRIBLE!!! ā€” but, fuckā€¦ā€¦ this does represent, in my view, a failure of the whole Party apparatus to strategically appeal to much of their voters. The entire point of organizations like political parties is to manage scenarios as best as possible so that we are never in situations like this, which probably have no good possible outcome.

    Everyone wants to see themselves reflected in leadership. Ever notice how, for the most part, many people want the President to be about half-a-generation older than them? Old enough to be an authority figure but not old enough to be your parents? That youth and vigor are seen as assets when much of the electorate is youthful and vigorous? Then when they’re older and more experienced, the assets are wisdom and judgment? A Party that was more clear-eyed about long-term success would have been much more strategic about “building that bridge” that we were promised.

    And I want to note that the GOP doesnā€™t have to do this, by dint of the nature of their coalition. They donā€™t need the youth vote the way the Dems do.

  259. 259.

    TBone

    @Jay: YES oh my goodness WHAT FUN!!!

    Now I’m craving my homemade lobster bisque.Ā 

    It’s made the day after a good old fashioned Down East feast, and I add fresh (white) corn kernels cut from the cob…

    Might have to phone in a fresh overnight lobster shipment from my favorite lobster pound!

    My coffee today is especially yum thanks to the good Jackals input this morning.

    Mmmm scallops. I can remember getting fresh Divers scallops at a restaurant in Philly – they were so big, you only needed two.Ā  Not tough, still succulent and tender …

  260. 260.

    Shalimar

    @Xentik: No, I can’t.Ā  But the convention chooses a ticket.Ā  If Biden were to die the next morning, they wouldn’t choose again.Ā  Harris would become President of the United States and she also would become the nominee.Ā  If he chooses to step aside after he has been officially selected, then theoretically he could support someone else.Ā  There is no suggestion anywhere that he is even considering that.

    People are assuming there is some scenario at this point where Biden remains President but chooses to step aside and not run again.Ā  If he agrees that he is too infirm to continue the campaign, he won’t continue in the most stressful job in the world.

  261. 261.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @piratedan: I think a LOT of people are scared (justifiably so) about Trump.

    A lot people are getting off on being scared of Trump.

    I honestly lost any fear of Mushroom dick after this week. Between him getting shot at by one of his fan bois, choosing human toad Vance as his VP, and then running the most boring political convention ever.Ā  I mean good lord, Trump is an entertainer, throwing a good show should be a no brainier for him and he fucked that up.

  262. 262.

    Gvg

    @Xentik: And if the delegates choose at the convention, that is still party leaders, just not big well know leaders, not voters and I donā€™t like that either. We had primaries. We voted. Having second thoughts happens, but many of us havenā€™t and even if we have, these delegates canā€™t possibly pick someone we wonā€™t hate for being forced on us. We are accustomed to having a say. The delegates really donā€™t have the info to guess what we would want and anyway nobody is an average of all the people in his area. The choices are also going to be limited and in a real redo we would have a choice of looking at the choices and saying, no, Biden is still better than these unproven egos.

  264. 264.

    hueyplong

    It’s odd how, among all the atrocities this election cycle, there’s only one thing we can’t “unsee.”

    In fact, a word search of this site would generate a surprisingly high instance of the word “unsee,” and only one context for its use.

  265. 265.

    Jay

    @M31:

    Digby’s are 3″ to 4″ round and an 1 1/2″ to 2″ thick.

    T loves lobster. I don’t. Back in the day, undersized didn’t have to be thrown back. So you could buy “pounders” out of the back of an ice filled pick up truck cheaper than baloney.

    Money was tight and we were lower class poor, so I ate more than my fair share of lobster.

    Ditto for zuchinni, from the year my Mom planted the whole pack of seeds in the garden.

  266. 266.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Suzanne: The colleague with a son in graduate school said she has been talking to her son, and asking why he and his friends are not strong Dem supporters. According to her, he said, ā€œWe hate Trump, but Biden is too old and itā€™s depressing.ā€

    Are they white?

    No, I’m not going off on a “more oppressed than thou” rant, but what I’m noticing is there seems to be more collective disrespect towards old people amongst white people than in communities of color and damned if I know what to do about that, because a lot of the societal problems we’re experiencing is not assigning value to institutional knowledge.

    I loved Obama, but Biden has been the most progressive POTUS in my lifetime because heĀ knew how to get shit done, and his years of experience in the Senate gave him that.

    I’m sorry Biden creeps young people out, but maybe white people need to start having uncomfortable conversations with their children and grandchildren, because they’re the ones who are going to live with the consequences of their actions.

  268. 268.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    The press is in the tank when that poll is showing 13% of the public have any sympathy for Mushroom Dick. More like the press didn’t bother because none of the readers and viewers are interested.

    Not only does 13% smashed threw the 27% crazification floor, going by that poll that means only a 1/4 of Trump’s own supporters give a shit someone took a shot him.

  269. 269.

    Xentik

    @Shalimar: But that’s actually accounted for in the rules. If Biden dies the next day Harris remains the VP nominee, and the DNC chooses who will replace Biden. It *could* be Harris, but it can be anyone else also.

    See Section XI, Subsection G (p 20)

    Filling a Vacancy on the National Ticket: In the event of death, resignation or disability of a nominee of the Party for President or Vice President after the adjournment of the National Convention, the National Chairperson of the Democratic National Committee shall confer with the Democratic leadership of the United States Congress and the Democratic Governors Association and shall report to the Democratic National Committee, which is authorized to fill the vacancy or vacancies.

    Meanwhile, if the first vote happens and succeeds, Biden immediately gives his acceptance speech, followed by the VP vote and acceptance speech.

    Additionally, there seems to be a clause (XI.K.1) that prevents anything *not* in the rules from being considered in a motion once the convention starts. Which is probably good, as you don’t want people rewriting nomination rules on the fly. Therefore, as far as I can tell, any changes to allow Biden to hand off to Harris need to happen before the convention

    @Gvg: Yeah, I totally agree.

  270. 270.

    Shalimar

    @hueyplong: I had the advantage of not watching the debate and only hearing about it from friends.Ā  There was initial panic that Democrats tend to do about how infirm and unprepared he looked but it would have settled down within a day.Ā  The end-of-the-world defeatism has been stoked constantly since then so it doesn’t die down.

    And I did finally read the transcript of the debate last week.Ā  On paper, Biden is so much more coherent than Trump it isn’t even funny.Ā  If you gave people the transcript and told them one of those people had advanced dementia, no one would guess Biden.

  271. 271.

    Kay

    @Shalimar:

    You’re asking me to believe the best strategist in the Democratic Party, Nancy Pelosi – the person who carried most of Biden’s progressive legislation – suddenly turned on Biden because she was persuaded by political media? They duped her? Obama is the best political talent of his generation – either party. He too thinks Biden can’t win. Sherrod Brown? Absolute top tier at winning elections. Thinks Biden can’t win. But you’d prefer I listen to Biden’s campaign team or Biden supporters on Twitter or AOC from her deep blue seat? Nah. Nancy Pelosi has never counted wrong to my knowlege. I don’t now why she’d start now.

  273. 273.

    Kay

    @Shalimar:

    If you didn’t watch you wouldn’t have had the moment of common knowlege. Has to be a shared reaction. I went back and looked at my phone after – I got the first alarmed text 9 minutes in. That’s common knowlege, how it works. It’s why Jane Fonda cried. Like a punch in the gut. A bell that can’t be unrung.

  274. 274.

    Geminid

    @Betty Cracker: One analysis of the rally shooting pointed out that the Secret Service was responsible for the space closer to the candidate, in this case the stage and the rally crowd itself. They also had a sniper and spotting team searching for more distant threats like long range snipers.

    Security for the area in between is managed by local law enforcement agencies. This was a one-off operation, executed without much planning or practice and poorly coordinated; particularly as to communications between local agencies and with tge Secret Service detail.

    The choice of the venue greatly exacerbated these problems. I expect Trump will keep doing these outdoor rallies anyway. Trump’s a cheapskate, and he also may fear embarrassment from half-filled arenas. It’s easier to lie about crowd size when the crowd is outdoors.

  275. 275.

    Xentik

    @Kay: Many of us don’t believe their decisions are being made based on what they think the voters will do with regards to choosing Biden. They’re being made based on threats that money from large donors will be turned off. I absolutely believe people like Pelosi might see that as a major threat to getting senators and reps elected. And here’s the thing, you aren’t going to change our minds on that, and we’re not going to make you think Biden’s the best candidate.

    So what are you going to do? One of the things I’ve always loved about your posts is that you’ve always been someone who takes action. You’re involved in your local party, you push for things you feel are right. I’ve never seen you as someone who argues online and then expects others to solve the problem.

    You can push for Harris by helping to remedy issues that people have with a possible handoff. Real, substantive rules changes. Discussions about how money and campaign infrastructure would be handed off, etc. That can happen in the party itself, reaching out to people who can affect the rules.

  276. 276.

    Chris Johnson

    @Jay: I liked that. Good for Adam and John. These things happenā€¦ if you mess around for too long, and your character becomes clear.

  277. 277.

    Chris Johnson

    @Darkrose: Lindsay’s essay on RENT is straight-up fire, incredibly powerful. I love it, and it might be a large part of what got her targeted. Too good.

  278. 278.

    M31

    @Jay: wow, if the scallop part is 4″ across, how the fuck big is the actual whole animal?

    lol I remember the first time I saw a live scallop, it was at someone’s really cool salt-water aquarium: a whole lot of weird little waving pink fingers/palps with a lot of bright blue eyes nestled in there, swimming backwards by slapping itself open and closed, now there’s an alien monster

  279. 279.

    Kay

    @Xentik:

    Donors want to win. If big Dem donors gave based on tax rates they would have switched to the GOP.

    Thereā€™s going to a committed, engaged Harris group. Iā€™ll be with them. Weā€™ll win. She makes the most sense.

    I love Hillary Clinton but I donā€™t want her advice on beating Donald Trump and frankly the chair of the DNC has to support the presumptive nominee – itā€™s his job. The moment Harris is the nominee heā€™ll support her.
    She can win. The public is begging us for an option. Letā€™s give them what they want instead of telling them what they ā€œshouldā€ want.
    Step 1 is Biden steps aside and endorses Harris. Thatā€™s crucial, his endorsement. Thatā€™s what weā€™re asking for.

  280. 280.

    Darkrose

    @Jay: One of the few things I miss about New England is the easy availability of lobster.

    BTW, Iā€™m heading back to California after a week in Toronto. It was my first time in Canada, and assuming the world doesnā€™t spiral into disaster, I definitely want to come back and see more of the country. Itā€™s nice up here.

  282. 282.

    Jay

    @Kay:

    Full quotes or it didn’t happen.

    Fmr President Obama clearly stating President Biden should step down.

    GOAT Fmr Madam Speaker Nancy Pelosi clearly saying President Biden should step down.

    Senator Sherrod Brown clearly saying President Biden should step down.

    You can’t, because they have not said that publically, it’s always Insider say, rumors are, “anonamous” says,

    JFC, teh stupid, it burns.

    “rumours are, that Huge Jackman, ( yeah, I couldn’t resist) and Ryan Renolds, (my Canadian bro) are in a love triangle with Scarlotte Johannsen”

    JFC on a cracker. The Host, Communion Wafers, what a fucken diet the Chickenshit “Democrats” are on,

    Might as well sign up for Goop.

  284. 284.

    Xentik

    @Kay: People like me will continue to push against that until you can guarantee that Harris is the nominee. There are no guardrails currently, that’s what’s being asked for. As much as we’d like to believe the Democratic National Committee will decide Harris, it’s not required, and the donors could easily extend their threat to the removal of Harris. AOC has said to expect as much from what she’s seen in these meetings.

    I don’t trust the megadonors, they do their work behind the scenes and act like their money is worth more than our votes. There are no *good* ultra-rich people. They only fall into two categories, amoral and immoral. We have the amoral ones, and what they do is only in their own self-interest. I’ve never seen any evidence to the contrary, and so I will never place faith in them doing the right thing.

  285. 285.

    Jay

    @Darkrose:

    Come to Vancouver.

    That is an official invite.

    We have better food, and lakes, the Pacific,Ā  beaches, Mountains all within a bus ride.

  286. 286.

    Suzanne

    @The Thin Black Duke: Yes, theyā€™re white.

    I have a bit of disagreement here about the whole issue of “disrespect” to older people, and whether or not a lack of confidence in Biden is evidence of it. I think, more than anything, people are really scared of seeing the president decline in office. (There’s a reason that it has been hidden from view in the past.) It’s not that theyā€™re as scared of the VP taking over. I get the read that many people are more scared of this idea there’s this shadowy group of unelected people around the president manipulating things behind the scenes. It doesnā€™t help that this has been depicted in fiction, too.

    I also think that this is more of a concern because more and more people have more experience with elder decline in their own families. And they have witnessed how it can be gradual at first and then quicken, and it can go on for years. (Long declines over many years are a relatively recent thingā€¦. It used to be more common for people to get sick and die more quickly.) It is also very much a trait of this generation that’s aging right now that some of them want to work longer, and the “stubborn old guy who won’t retire” is a familiar type to some of us.

    Look, ultimately I am pragmatic. Just win, baby. I donā€™t know what the best course of action is as this juncture, but a strong and functional party wouldnā€™t have gotten us to this point.

  287. 287.

    Xentik

    @Kay: It tells me that Biden is likely delivering an ultimatum. I expect it’s “Fall in line, or be left out when we win.” I am very skeptical he will step aside at this point.

    Of course I could be wrong, and if he steps aside and we end up with Harris I will happily concede you were right and support her with everything I have.

    What will you do if he steps aside and she isn’t chosen? What will you do if we end up with Dean Philips as the candidate and his platform is basically republican-lite? What if we lose because of that?

  288. 288.

    Chris Johnson

    @Geminid: It’s super weird how for once there’s a thread ABOUT the weird shit around the shooting, and yet the discourse is wrestled away and back to all the old hobbyhorses. Well, I won’t stand for it. ON topic thoughts! :D

    So, to the best of my knowledge, the facts:

    -shots fired, from kid who was seen getting into position

    -weirdly absent response in any sense. Sniper demanding an okay to fire for extended period, and being denied. Ends up shooting kid, without being cleared to fire. Sniper is fired from his job, presumably for shooting against orders.

    -Trump’s ear shows red material either before or after his hand goes up to it. Looks like blood. He’s tackled to the ground by Secret Service.

    -Secret Service let him up and allow him to wave tiny fist in air.

    -Photographer has moved to location to photograph Trump against sky and flag, in a spot where not only no Secret Service obscure him, but no Secret Service obscure him from a camera angle well below what a second sniper might use. This also means photographer has moved towards shooting target. In fairness, war correspondents are crazy, and the guy might’ve smelled a Pulitzer and lost his judgement.

    -Trump’s bundled off to presumably a hospital, but the doctor we end up hearing from a week later is Ronny Jackson (!)

    -Trump claims gunshot wound, others cite flying glass from teleprompter. Both prompters are intact in photos but that doesn’t prove a bit of glass didn’t get knocked loose somehow, just that they didn’t take a direct hit that altered their profile, rounded corners etc.

    -High velocity rounds don’t create nick or slice wounds, they vaporise flesh and blood creating a spray from the velocity of the impact. Flying glass or a hidden blade would create a nick or slice wound.

    To the best of my knowledge those are the facts, with no conclusions drawn from them, and if I’ve got any of that factually wrong I invite further observations.

  289. 289.

    Xentik

    @Chris Johnson: The police snipers were supposed to be covering the spot the shooter was at, but had chosen a spot that had a tree blocking that location. Apparently if the shooter had been a few more feet to the left, he would have been covered by trees from both the police and Secret Service counter sniper team.

    The SS counter-sniper team shot late because their sniper had to readjust to aim low enough to hit the shooter.

    Edited to add: I don’t know why you wouldn’t have people on every rooftop around the area. It seems pretty trivial to do so.

  290. 290.

    Kathleen

    @Princess: That is a profound observation and it explains a lot about the extreme level of vitriol and viciousness being directed at Biden. ETA And Harris. Should Biden withdraw and Harris remain the candidate (which I don’t think is in the cards) the level of hatred expressed towards her will be unprecedented. Biden’s presence provides a buffer but when that is gone it will get uglier if that’s possible.

  291. 291.

    Chris Johnson

    So, assuming the facts are in order, I do have a narrative that fits them, and it doesn’t even require Dr. Evil levels of psychopathy from most of those involved, and just an extra level of nefariousness from key people who would have no problem with that.

    I would call it a stunt that went wrong in several ways. A stunt that, had it gone as planned, would have been a HARMLESS version of the same narrative. The staged parts were set up in the belief that the whole thing could go off with no real deaths. I’m not sure of that but if I was in cahoots with it I’d want to see to it that it was a ‘whew! thank goodness nobody was hurt! How brave Trump is!’ event.

    So: the intent could have been for the kid to fire blanks, Trump to blade himself, and then the kid be ‘captured’ and to sorta disappear. Doesn’t make that much sense, but if it was a work, that would explain how there wasn’t response to people yelling that there was a sniper, and importantly it would explain why the real sniper, demanding permission to shoot, was denied that permission and then fired after he killed the kid anyway. It may have been known that it was a work, in which case the sniper wasn’t in on the stunt and didn’t know he was aiming at an actor. I think that would explain why no response, why the sniper didn’t get permission to fire. If the plan was for the kid to fire blanks and the wound to be a blading (as in wrestling), the schemers would know there was no real danger, and that the important thing was to not have people panicking and possibly endangering themselves.

    But there was danger, and at least one real shooter.

    I have no idea whether the kid had real bullets or blanks. That’s not a given. The thing is, there was at least one real shooter, whether it was the kid or someone else. But if there was another real shooter and it was a work gone wrong, that real shooter was aware of the scheme and making a point to hit someone behind Trump FOR REAL in order to add versimilitude. Such a thing would be a crime, but then Russia depends on Trump getting away with all this, and Russia’s killing people all the time. So if it was a big scheme, it’s not hard to believe that it could be emphasized by still more malicious people to have a real body count.

    And that’s as far as I’ve got. It still doesn’t make sense. Maybe the kid’s real, but they’d planned to have a fake shooter who ended up never appearing! If the kid is real but just craved attention and didn’t care who he had to shoot to get it, that’s a recruitment possibility for volunteering for such a scheme, and the refusal to let the sniper fire suggests such a volunteer would be ‘captured’ not killed.

    The only thing I do know is that it’s a giant mess, and that Trump did not have Ronny Jackson treat a BULLET WOUND. On multiple levels, that did not happen. What did happen remains a mystery, it’s just that there are ways that some of it would make much better sense.

  292. 292.

    Kay

    @Xentik:

    I’m just skeptical of the belief that all of a sudden the best strategists and politicians in the party would all be wrong and nominate some random lunkhead after going thru all this trouble and taking this risk. . The motive behind this is really simple- they want to win. There’s a genuine problem with the campaign funds transfer if it’s not Harris. That’s real leverage.

    Nancy Pelosi has never lied about a count that I am aware of. She doesn’t think he can win.

  293. 293.

    Kay

    @Xentik:

    I think she re-opens the map for us too- we get NV and AZ and NC and GA back in play. She may be stronger there than in the blue wall states. Those states are the future for Dems.

  294. 294.

    Chris Johnson

    Also, if the people arranging the stunt were aware there was no real danger and that Trump would blade his own ear for effect, invoking ‘flying glass from a shattered teleprompter’ (two of them seen with their outlines intact, which doesn’t prove glass didn’t fly off them, only that they didn’t take direct hits) means that there is understanding that at some point a ‘glass cut’ that isn’t a bullet wound would have to be explained.

    So the weird insistence on exploding teleprompters when none seem to have been fully struck by anything at all, would in fact have a purpose. It’d be a reference to a cut wound, knowing that it’s possible Trump would have to explain having a cut wound after gunshots rang out.

    Because of course, guns that fire knives might sound cool but aren’t real, any more than guns that fire sharks with lasers on their heads :)

    If I’ve figured any part of this out, I’m hoping that it’s the original intent to stage a HARMLESS stunt. I don’t assume that, but I think it is very unlikely most of these people would stage a thing where a confederate shot live rounds into their own crowd. I think they’d plan for blanks and a wrestling-style show and to keep people from panicking during and after, and they’d plan for an AMAZING image (they got one!)

    That said: knowing that it did turn ugly and people died, they do not give a fuck.

  295. 295.

    Kay

    Too, you can get mad at big donors all you want but if anyone needs them, it’s Joe Biden. He is absolutely burning money. He spent 100X what Trump has spent on ads in WI and PA and 400X what Trump has spent in MI. And that’s to stay slightly behind Trump up until the debate and quite a bit back after the debate. Joe Biden needs big donors.

  296. 296.

    Cacti

    “At this time, I think the President should end his campaign.”

    -Sherrod Brown (D-OH)

    July 19, 2024

     

    For any Canadians whose internet search engines might not be working this morning.

  297. 297.

    Xentik

    @Kay: Right, but their idea of winning is based on decades of “We need rich people’s money to run campaigns.” So of course they’re terrified of the prospects of losing that.

    Re: Polling, I just don’t see the same problem you do.

    Though I don’t expect to convince you otherwise, this is what I and a lot of people like me see:

    —- Polls have underestimated Dem performance continuously since 2022 (by somewhere around +7).

    — All of the polls that have us down have crosstabs that just don’t make any sense. I can’t take a poll that has 20-30% of blacks going for Trump seriously. I can’t take a poll that has 45% of Hispanics going for Trump seriously. There’s no historical evidence, nor any current explanation for why that would be.

    —- AOC’s own internal poll predicted her double-digits below what her actual results were. That suggests that internal polls have serious issues too.

    There’s plenty of evidence that polling methodologies are just flat-out broken, and a lot of that is likely due to generational change in how people (don’t) answer phones.

    Edit: FYWP ate all my bullets when I tried to fix something.

  298. 298.

    Geminid

    @Chris Johnson: I think any plot of this kind would require too many prople to keep the secret and would be rejected for that reason. That would be a high risk proposition with a speculative reward.

    The slow reaction to the shooter when he was actually spotted on the roof raises suspicion, but there may have been a hestation to shoot him because law enforcement members weren’t sure he wasn’t one if theirs. The commentator I cited suggested this, and recounted an incident a few years ago where Secret Service snipers almost took out a distant sniper team but learned just in time that they were local law enforcement.

  299. 299.

    Xentik

    @Geminid: I believe someone here said or linked to an article which suggested a lot of it was the police officers hoping someone else would handle the creepy guy with the scary bag.

    I did read that the Officer that went up the ladder to confront him fell off when the rifle was pointed at him, which is why he couldn’t intervene. Not sure if that’s actually what happened, or if he just ran for it.

  300. 300.

    Shalimar

    @Kay: There is zero evidence the best strategists and politicians in the party agree on anything other than replacing Biden.Ā  They have different preferred replacement candidates, and there is no reason to believe they will settle on one of them.Ā  It would probably be Harris eventually just because no one else can get above 20% support from the many groups pushing Biden out.Ā  But that would be after weeks of fucking around and wasting time we should be running against Republicans.

  301. 301.

    Chris Johnson

    @Geminid: It does seem weird, yes. I’m just trying to make sense of it.

    As for arguments of ‘it might be high risk’, I think it’s clear that with the selection of Vance the Putin wing of the party is in control for now. My feeling is that they will take any risk to juice the odds for themselves, and staging a stunt (that, again, might have been meant to be harmless) is just the sort of thing they’d do.

    From how it looks, there’s at least one Secret Service sniper who didn’t get the memo, if it was meant to be just a work. And if it’s true that said sniper tried frantically to get clearance to fire, and then having finally done so, lost his job, that’s so weird that it deserves some attention.

    I’m given to understand the shooter DID die, right? The guy pointing a gun at Trump was killed, by someone on Trump’s team?

    Why in the living fuck are they not celebrating that hero? Why for the love of God, rather than celebrate the man who took the shot to stop the underway mass shooting of Trump and followers, do they not celebrate that man and instead Trump kisses a fireman’s hat over a coat with the wrong name on it?

    Now that I mention it, it sticks out. What the actual hell? That’s not a hero? It’s literally a man with a gun, directly working for Trump’s side, killing an apparent mass shooter. Are they celebrating him? Did he actually get fired? I only read briefly about that part. Why do they not celebrate the man with a gun taking out the bad ‘man’ with a gun? Isn’t that how that narrative is supposed to go?

  302. 302.

    Darkrose

    @Jay: Vancouver is absolutely on the list! One of the trips my wife and I dream about is taking the train up the Pacific Coast from California to Vancouver.

  303. 303.

    Kay

    @Shalimar:

    But you’re not running against Republicans. No swing state senator or (actual contest) House candidate is going to appear with Biden. Obama can’t appear with him either at this point. At the point I was told he was “proving” himself and how dare I expect better he was doing one scripted or teleprompter event a day (and struggling) and 3 very bad interviews. He can’t finish a thought or complete a sentence. He could DO all that in 2020.

    Younger people think we’re insane gaslighters with this, and have thought that for years. They knew he was declining – it’s all over social media and has been for years. You know what they saw about Joe Bidne last week? The visual? Him being essentially carried by an aide into the back of a car. This is not the same candidate as 2020. That’s not the fault of voters- it doesn’t mean they’re dumb or stupid or racist. It means he’s declined over 4 years. They saw it, we all saw it together, in the first 5 minutes of that debate and once they saw it they can’t unsee it.

    Here’s a public knowlege story. Fiction writer, from a big Chicago family, had a deeply autistic sibling but it’s the early fifties, the kids in her family are smart and quirky, they all think he’s a little off but no big deal. Except her (she thinks). She knows something is profoundly different about him. They go to a neighborhood parade and she’s riding in a float with the brother and she hears a neighbor say “what on earth is wrong with that child?” The whole family look at one another, horrified. They all knew and now it’s public knowlege. They can’t ever go back.

  304. 304.

    Eyeroller

    @Geminid: “Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity.” It was pretty clearly a failure of coordination between the Secret Service and local law enforcement.Ā  No way was it a “stunt” or a “setup.”Ā  It’s been pretty much confirmed, as best as we can, that the young man was suicidal and looking to go out with infamy by killing a major figure.

    The lack of coordination was compounded by PA being an open-carry state (nobody was going to check he wasn’t yet 21).Ā  That’s the laws Republicans want.

    The only “conspiracy” I entertain is Trump’s bloviating about the bullet “piercing his skin.”Ā  Bullshit.Ā  If his ear had been hit by a rifle bullet he wouldn’t have an ear.Ā  I kept trying to explain that in some earlier threads and people kept saying “it could have grazed him.”Ā  No.Ā  Even a grazing would shred the skin.Ā  However, it’s pretty clear he was hit by something.Ā  We have since learned that cops standing a few feet away were hit by flying debris and suffered similar minor injuries, so I think that’s pretty definitive. It didn’t have to be teleprompter glass, it could be anything that was actually grazed.Ā  The shards would go flying off at quite high velocity themselves.

  305. 305.

    Chris Johnson

    @Eyeroller: That part I agree with 100%. There is no chance he got struck on the ear, even grazed, by a bullet.

    I know I’ve seen photos with two intact teleprompters but that doesn’t mean there can’t have been some other glass object around somewhere that could’ve been struck and sent a fragment past his ear.

    If he bladed himself and there was no flying glass, that would conclusively prove it was at least intended as a stunt, whatever else might have changed the plan.

    If there was flying glass from ANY source, teleprompter or not, that could explain a cut on Trump’s ear, and then the only question is what’s the cut like, and was it difficult to stop the bleeding, and what were the ballistics of the flying glass, be it from teleprompter or from anything else.

    The fact that Trump now says bullet rather than glass means nothing because he lies about everything anyhow, so that means literal nothing. He could have had a big chunk of his ear vaporized by a bullet and then turned around and claimed it was a glass scratch for all the difference it would make. Instead it’s the opposite.

  306. 306.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Kay: I’m not saying this to be mean.

    The more you explain how horrible Joe Biden has been doing, the more you sound like a bigot. Your response is precisely why I started using the term “old man cooties.”

    Remember, I saw the debate too, and I thought he did fine, and you’re screaming that it was so horrible it was unforgettable, because… well, you don’t actually have anything, do you? Oh, wait, he had a stutter.

    Wait, *ARE* you the bigot who got all shirty “THERE IS A TRANSCRIPT OF MY ABJECT HUMILIATION YOU KNOW!”

    If so, wow. You’ve gotten worse. *YOU* are the one who is ashamed, and *you* are trying to convince us to be ashamed, but, I’m sorry, I do not share your bigotry, and nothing you’re saying is actually making any sense whatsoever.Ā  You relate a family knowing that an offhand comment heard during a parade – you did mention something about a fiction writer being involved, yes? – offhand comment during a parade, and they knew it could ONLY be THE SON!!! NO, NOTHING ELSE, THEY WERE NOW TAINTED FOREVER!

    Do you have any idea how hateful that sounds, in this context? That our President is DIFFERENT and we should now abandon him, because, a person who sounds like a bigot insists he’s a doddering old simpleton?

    I don’t have words for the level of contempt I feel for you, and I don’t think the words really exist. You’ve had plenty of time to shed your cringy embarrassment at being associated with someone who DUM DUM DUM
    IS OLD
    DUM DUUUUUUUUUUMMy.

  308. 308.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Shalimar: Don’t forget the Russian propaganda campaign. They’ve had three weeks to tune their message to put the blade in the dagger some dems are so eager to plunge into their own breasts (gotta have a big sympathy wound) and then try to shiv everyone nearby, which, let me tell you, is *not* in accordance with proper blood-borne pathogens handling protocols.

  312. 312.

    Quinerly

    @different-church-lady:

    I bet the 4 I would name wouldn’t be the 4 you would name.šŸ˜‰

    Kidding aside, I am retired with no family, in a relatively new place without my social circle of clubs, live music in the afternoons…”my old life.” I fail to understand how the same 8 people find the time to post multiple comments on every thread….24 hrs a day. Do BJers have lives beyond BJ? Do they work, play with their pets, get physical exercise, spend time with family, have sex, watch movies, do yard work, go to restaurants, cook at home, go grocery shopping, see friends, have hobbies? Or do they just comment on every thread, multiple of times….mostly without readingĀ  everything?

    I am missing seeing many old commenters. Wonder where they are?

  313. 313.

    sab

    @Chris Johnson: Trump talked about bravely dealing with all the blood. I have had more blood with a routine nosebleed or a kitchen knife mishap. What a whiny twerp.

  314. 314.

    Shalimar

    @Kay: I have watched several hours of Biden giving speeches and interviews since that debate.Ā  There is no sign of what you’re telling me everyone knows.Ā  I don’t know what to tell you.Ā  You’re horrified by something I don’t even see.Ā  He seems slow but capable and competent to me.

  315. 315.

    sab

    @Kay: Joe Biden stayed out of 2016 because he was heartsick over losing Beau.

    Did his duty and jumped in 2020. He won.

    So here we are. He is the primary winner. I personally love him. Russian trolls say he is weak. You think he is weak. A decade of contact so I trust you. Now what.

  317. 317.

    Ruckus

    @Darkrose:

    I’ve done most of this run but back when I did it, the train did not go any farther than Martinez, CA. There is a bridge there and tracks on the other side of the river, so maybe I was on the train at the wrong time. Certainly possible.

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