Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

I swear, each month of 2025 will have its own history degree.

American history and black history cannot be separated.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

We can show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Our messy unity will be our strength.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

“But what about the lurkers?”

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

Republican also-rans: four mules fighting over a turnip.

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

White supremacy is terrorism.

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

Republicans in disarray!

So many bastards, so little time.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

People are complicated. Love is not.

T R E 4 5 O N

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Sunday Morning Open Thread: To Boldly Go

Sunday Morning Open Thread: To Boldly Go

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Sunday Morning Open Thread 15

*Excellent* message discipline from Rep. Shontel Brown!



Could we get a media Reverse Heel Turn?

Reader Interactions

515Comments

  1. 1.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    The moon landing was the high point of my childhood.

    Also  First Man, excellent movie.

    (but everyone knows Stanly Kurbirck faked the moon landing on location)

  3. 3.

    moonbat

    My dad, who was in the Air Force when we were growing up, made all us kids watch the launch to the walk obsessively. I think it was the first time I can remember bonding with him over something that was truly wondrous in our lives. Been a moon lover ever since, obviously.

    Thanks again for all that you do, AL! You pick me up at least twice a day on the regular.

    Go, Biden/Harris!

  4. 4.

    CliosFanBoy

    I think it was the 3d crewmember, Michael Collins, that told Neil Armstrong “If you had any balls, when you get down the ladder you say ‘What is that?,” scream, and cut the mic.”

  5. 5.

    Splitting Image

    America has declined so much since 1969 because of liberalism, political correctness, and woke culture that we need to return to Traditional American Values. That is the only way the country will ever put another man on the moon. Which actually never happened because the entire thing was faked.

    Never mind. As I was saying, the country needs to go back to what it was in 1963, when every government agency in the country conspired to assassinate the President. And to cover up all of the alien UFOs that were contacting us at the time.

    I am not a crank.

    (I’ll say this for Aldrin. I admire his technique for dealing with conspiracy theorists.)

  8. 8.

    NotMax

    Moon landing was the first time a television showed up at the summer camp where I worked.

    You think the pictures were fuzzy on your set? We all watched it on a portable B&W set which just barely could catch the signal from the transmitter ~100 miles away.

  9. 9.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    It’s my seventy-seventh birthday. I’m not as old as Bilbo, but I’m getting close

    ETA: Just listened to the Shontel Brown tweet. Alex Witt says, “The discussion it out there.” Spit!

  10. 10.

    Ramalama

    Forgive me but I’m using an ancient iPad that doesn’t really display Twitter posts in full…no photos or videos. But is that post from Nancy Pelosi a recognition that Biden and Harris are staying on the ticket?

  12. 12.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Feel the need to pass this along:

    2024 State Scorecard on Women’s Health and Reproductive Care

    Scorecard Highlights

    Massachusetts, Vermont, and Rhode Island top the rankings for the 2024 State Scorecard on Women’s Health and Reproductive Care, which is based on 32 measures of health care access, quality, and health outcomes. The lowest performers were Mississippi, Texas, Nevada, and Oklahoma.

    Deaths from all causes among women of reproductive age — 15 to 44 — were highest in southeastern states. Causes of death include pregnancy and other preventable causes such as substance use, COVID-19, and treatable chronic conditions.

    The highest maternal death rates were in Tennessee, Mississippi, and Louisiana. Vermont, California, and Connecticut had the lowest rates. Nationally, rates were highest for Black and American Indian and Alaska Native (AIAN) women.

    Mental health conditions are the most frequently reported cause of preventable pregnancy-related death, including deaths by suicide and overdoses related to substance use disorders. States that screened for postpartum depression at the highest rates also had lowest rates of postpartum depression.

    Among women of reproductive age (ages 15–44), those in Texas, Georgia, and Oklahoma were uninsured at the highest rates; those in Massachusetts, the District of Columbia, and Vermont had the lowest uninsured rates. Women in states that had not expanded Medicaid eligibility were among those most at risk of lacking coverage.

    The U.S. Supreme Court decision overturning Roe v. Wade in June 2022 has significantly altered both access to reproductive health care services and how providers are able to treat pregnancy complications in the 21 states that ban or restrict abortion access.

    To the surprise of absolutely no one.

    Also, I’s so proud! Misery is worse than South Carolina.

  14. 14.

    Eyeroller

    @Ramalama: I take it as such.  I hope you can repair some of the damage you did, Nancy.  Though the rumors are that Adam Schiff drove a lot of that.

  18. 18.

    Raven

    As I said yesterday, I was in Sydney on R&R for the landing and they were wild about it because of the tracing station.

  23. 23.

    Splitting Image

    @Eyeroller:

    I hope you can repair some of the damage you did, Nancy. Though the rumors are that Adam Schiff drove a lot of that.

    Only a month to the convention. I think Democrats speaking out against Biden will be falling in line before then, once it has been made clear that they are not getting their pony.

    After that the party will still be fighting the news media, but any Democrats worried about polls will just have to focus on attacking the Republican platform and improving their own turnout. Which is what they ought to be doing anyway.

  25. 25.

    Eyeroller

    @Raven: The tracking station near Sydney is the only reason we have any halfway-decent images and video of the Moon landing. The video was transmitted at a fairly high resolution (for the time) and converted to low-quality NTSC format for broadcast TV.  NASA then apparently erased and reused the master telemetry data tapes in the early 1980s because LANDSAT needed them.  Some retired NASA employees conducted a search in the early 2000s and found some good-quality NTSC tapes and a Super8 film of a monitor at the station, showing the higher-quality feed before it was converted.

  27. 27.

    M31

    @Phylllis: ​
     
    I love his picture of the Lunar lander in space with the Earth in the background, the picture contains every human there is, except him.

  29. 29.

    Fair Economist

    I was just a sniff too young to remember the moon landing itself, but my mom decreased my bedroom with a space theme.  Blue fabric with stars for a bedcover, non landing pics on the wall, guturistic lamps, the works. I’m still fascinated by space

    Ooh, how could I forget the tent/playpen shaped like the command module? Well, partly it didn’t last very long – I was a little old for a playpen.

  30. 30.

    MomSense

    Stories from canvassing yesterday.  Helped a woman who is 60, has breast cancer and no insurance get help.  I went on Maine’s exchange and showed her that as a Native American who is registered with her tribe, she gets free care.  No copays, deductibles or cost sharing.  She was crying.  So was I.  We have the same birthday, different year.  Also met her wolves.  Yes, wolves.  She is going to vote for the local senate candidate I was canvassing for.

  33. 33.

    SFAW

    @M31:

    I love his picture of the Lunar lander in space with the Earth in the background, the picture contains every human there is, except him.

    What an amazing thought/action.

  35. 35.

    Bupalos

    Nancy Smash and Brown take the right approach here for public figures. There is nothing to be gained especially at this point from escalation. Frankly there’s no further level to which people who want a change in candidate can go. Both sides have escalated to the point where they are damaging each other and ripping out the planks of the boat they sail on together.

    My biggest disappointment here as someone who wanted Biden to retire (and thinks he still probably will) is that he and his crew have been unable to switch to a team oriented message. The way to get past his issues here wasn’t to do individual feats of strength and the “only me” stuff, angrily escalating, and promising he’d never stop running and promising he would win. It would have been more effective to start talking about the strength of dems as a team and emphasize that accomplishments have followed from that. That we can keep winning as a team. I think that could have been salutary publicly and behind the scenes.

  36. 36.

    Another Scott

    The Space Race was an amazing time to be a kid interested in giant rockets and watching people figuring out how to put brave people on top of them and send them 1/4 million miles away and bring them back home safely.

    I loved getting National Geographic every month and seeing the fabulous pictures and reading the stories.

    Just an amazing time to grow up.

    “We choose to go to the Moon and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.” – JFK.

    We need to do the work to do hard things.  It’s important.

    Thanks, AL.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  40. 40.

    Another Scott

    @MomSense: Thank you.

    Being there is important.

    Showing up is important.

    Doing the work is important.

    You’re an inspiration!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  41. 41.

    SFAW

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    First of all: Happy Birthday, young lady! And many more!

    But it’s also clear to me that calling yourself (long ago, in the before time) “Iowa Old Lady” was misdirection. [OK, maybe not the “Iowa” or “Lady” part.]

  43. 43.

    oldgold

    Was Neil Armstrong our last humble hero?

    Humility as a virtue seems to have vanished from our culture.

  46. 46.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Chris Hayes is merely the first to say what everyone in the media thinking after Thursday night “OMG, four years of this boring asshole rambling on about shit on one understands? We’re toast!”

  49. 49.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @oldgold: There are plenty of everyday heroes we never know of. Safe to say MomSense is one of them and we only know of her because she wanted to show that anybody can make a difference.

    @satby: Well said.

  51. 51.

    Eyeroller

    @Another Scott: For some of us who were kids then, and old enough to remember, it was pretty amazing.  I don’t remember Mercury but have vague recollections of Gemini.  I can remember the whole Apollo program pretty well.  It’s something of a shame it was really a Cold War propaganda effort.  And we tend to forget it wasn’t actually popular with the public at the time.

    Buzz is the only living crew member but CAPCOM Charley Duke is also still alive.

  53. 53.

    jonas

    That mayor Pete clip was great. He’s so good at getting a devastating point across while at the same time being affable and straight-talking. And his point was something so many of us have just been agog at for the past 8 years, namely the willingness of grown-ass men (and not a few women — see Haley, Nikki) to become Trump’s dignity wraiths. Just abjectly humiliate themselves, become the opposite of everything they used to claim to value, just to be close to Trump. (Note: he doesn’t like you. He doesn’t like anyone. He’s an asshole.) It’s just more evidence that there were never any core values there to begin with, only empty words and naked ambition.

  58. 58.

    jonas

    @oldgold:  Humility as a virtue seems to have vanished from our culture.

    We’re all just supposed to continually act like ‘roided up MMA fighters now.

  59. 59.

    Eyeroller

    @Another Scott: It was hard to make out anything because of the very low-quality real-time conversion to NTSC.  The computers of the day couldn’t do real-time high-quality conversion.

    Any higher-quality YouTube would likely be from the Super8 film taken of the SSTV telemetry on the video monitor in Australia.  So it’s a picture of a picture, but at least it’s on film.

  60. 60.

    artem1s

    If you want to get a sense of how amazing the Moon landing was take the time and listen to it in real time. Apollo 11 in Real Time
    I listen annually now to at least part of this since it was put together for the 50th anniversary. The highlights are bookmarked so you can jump to them. My favorite point in the mission is the Go, No-Go for DOI (descent orbit insertion). It’s a ‘point of no return’ moment. Once the lunar module undocks and starts descending it has to land. Armstrong can’t change his mind on the way down. If something goes wrong, there is no turning around. The physics won’t allow it. It’s either land and then take off and come back – hopefully with a moon walk in between – or crash and die, or float endlessly in space. Collins might get back but Buzz and Neal on are their own. There are several of these Go, No-Go moments but this one really hits me because of the rapid fire nature of each controller confirming the system’s readiness to proceed. So important, yet mundane. When Neal and Buzz suit up to leave the LM they go thru a lock check – closing down valves and sealing off systems before they depressurized and opened the hatch. I kept thinking how many damn times I leave the house each day and forget something and have to go back in. Listening to it can be very unsettling.

    In any case, the DOI Go, No-Go is a systems check. It’s not an opportunity to discuss or change the plan. The course was decided with the pre-launch Go, No-Go over 100 hours ago. Magical thinking, naked ambition and/or hubris will not change who is at the helm. Armstrong lands the ship and remembers to lock down the system behind him before he leaves the LM or he doesn’t. Gene Kranz back in Houston isn’t going to start second guessing him either. Make of that what you will as you listen to what might possibly be the most audacious act of cooperation in human history.

    The Apollo in Real Time project is itself a pretty amazing act of creation too.
    Ben Feist

  61. 61.

    satby

    @jonas: you should look at the longer clip of Pete’s full throated support of Biden, with Maher’s audience enthusiastically applauding many of his points. Shut Maher right up.

    I would like, but it’s not on the show website.

  63. 63.

    eclare

    @jonas:

    So true.  I’ve often wondered how these Republican invertebrates manage to stand up.  History will not be kind to them.

  65. 65.

    narya

    Meanwhile, I learned something already today. Over on BSKY, someone’s parents are on a cruise. Dad bought a shirt with pineapples all over it, and many of the other couples are being real friendly. So, TIL that pineapples signal “want to swing” (and not the dance kind), which was NOT what Dad intended or even knew about. Which reminds me: a bunch of coworkers went out for drinks (this is 20+ years ago), and one person was talking about how she liked to swing [dance, which was left unsaid], whereupon the CEO announces he and HIS wife do, too! Except it wasn’t dancing, in his case. AWKward!

  66. 66.

    Scout211

    Speaking of good messaging:

    USA Today    Democratic Party chairs of seven critical battleground states Sunday reaffirmed their support for President Joe Biden, urging their fellow Democrats to focus on beating former President Donald Trump while many in the party are trying to push Biden to drop out.

    In an open letter to Democrats obtained by USA TODAY, the party chairs argued Democrats have a unified message of “freedom, democracy, and an economy that works for working people” that can beat Trump’s “MAGA threat of abortion bans, dictatorship, and giveaways to billionaires.”

    “But right now, many voters aren’t hearing that from our party. We understand the anxiety. But the best antidote to political anxiety is taking action,” they wrote in the letter. “When we all lend our voices to contrasting the Democratic vision — from Biden-Harris straight down the ticket — with the MAGA nightmare, we win.

    The best antidote to anxiety is taking action.  That reads like a balloon-juice message!

  67. 67.

    schrodingers_cat

    @oldgold: Biden’s seems pretty down to earth to me. I guess that’s why white Podbros hate him. That and he treats non-white people and women as people, as equals, not props to show how virtuous and benevolent he is.

  69. 69.

    Eyeroller

    @artem1s: I know we marvel at the coordination at carrying out these steps but keep in mind that they practiced all this hundreds or thousands of times until it was second nature. They also had checklists.

    Not to detract at all from the courage and skill of the other Apollo astronauts, but the true marvel was Apollo 13. They had to do a lot of things for which they had not trained but had to be done exactly right.

  71. 71.

    Trivia Man

    @NotMax: Kids today, amirite? I’ve seen a funny list of quotes about “kids today!” going back to Aristotle. I am happy to let things change.

  75. 75.

    MomSense

    @Fair Economist:

    I worked on it as an unpaid volunteer 20-40 hours per week.  There is a book about it written by the executive director of Health Care for America Now (HCAN) and he interviewed me and used some of my photos and a key memo I wrote.  My youngest was pre-school age and he was with me for the whole thing.  Bunch of kids of volunteers were. Somewhere on deep YouTube there is a video of all the kids on stage with my friend Peter who wrote and performed a song called health care blues. People gave us the jars with photos that they had used to get donations at checkout counters.  Remember those? The kids held them in front when he performed the song at rallies.  Sadly the kids couldn’t come along when he performed that song at the big health care rally in DC in the summer of 09 but that was great too.  Crowd was into it.

  77. 77.

    Eyeroller

    @schrodingers_cat: ​I like it a lot, with the recognition that there is some artistic license. In particular, Fred Haise was very upset over how he was portrayed.

  78. 78.

    WereBear

    @jonas: Money and media manipulation. Which he learned from Roy Cohn.

    Who was impressed with Donald’s coldness. And that’s saying something, considering the source.

  82. 82.

    MomSense

    @narya:

    Actually, the best part is that one of the librarians at the public library helps her use the library’s computers because she doesn’t have one.  So we wrote down the information and she is going to ask the librarian to help her with the website on Monday.  I gave her my number, which I usually don’t do, so they can call if they have any trouble.

  83. 83.

    Trivia Man

    @Phylllis: Collins set a record that may still stand. The human who was further away from every other  human. When he was orbiting the moon alone his closest person was further away than anyone had ever experienced.

  84. 84.

    Xentik

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: I like to think his moment of realization went a little like this.

    Nice to see Pelosi an the state party heads speaking up in support of Biden. Jaime Harrison’s statement that people need to quit with the BS was great too.

     

    @NotMax: Thanks for these, I hadn’t seen either! I got a huge laugh out of them. It’s amazing how much tension you can relieve just by laughing nonstop for half an hour.

  85. 85.

    Eyeroller

    For anybody really interested in the Apollo program, I highly, highly recommend Tom Hanks’ miniseries “From the Earth to the Moon.” It is detailed, it is very accurate, and it recreates the era with great attention to detail. Since a lot of us are old we probably have DVD players and you can still get the DVD/BluRay on Amazon.

    It was heavily sourced from a book by Andrew Chaiken called “A Man on the Moon,” which is still in print and also available at Amazon.

  91. 91.

    artem1s

    @eclare: the DOI Go, No-Go for powered descent is at 102:27:57 and 102:47:01 is the landing G/NG.  It’s bookmarked in grey in the milestone tab, not blue. There are no transcripts for them because the audio feed is with Gene Kranz at Flight Control. He’s calling out the stations.

  94. 94.

    Elizabelle

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:  Happy Birthday Dorothy!  You share yours with another excellent writer, Michael Connelly of the Harry Bosch and Lincoln Lawyer detective series.  An excellent birthday to all.

    And, our much missed Amir Khalid’s birthday fell a few days ago.  He is in my thoughts.  🎸🎸🎸🐈🐈‍⬛🐈

  96. 96.

    Bupalos

    @eclare: How ‘history’ in the sense you’re talking about “treats them” will be variable over time and depend on the current character of the people writing and reading that history.

    Our job is to try and make that history treat them badly in and after our time. Which is an after effect of standing up for our values and getting to a better national character.

  99. 99.

    Mousebumples

    @Scout211: I’m with Ben Wikler. I trust his ability to plan swing state wins more than I’d trust Pelosi, Schiff, etc. (I came here to post that too, so thanks for sharing!)

  100. 100.

    MomSense

    @MomSense:

    I just found it but links don’t work with my phone.  Live DC version I found with Maine Health Care  song – the name was Begging For Change by Peter Alexander. He’s a great musician.  My kid took some lessons with him.

  102. 102.

    Trivia Man

    Fun fact: the first man to step on the moon was a civilian pilot, not military. Neil had seen combat in korea as a pilot but resigned his commission about 1960. He was the first civilian accepted into the astronaut program.

    I dont know if it was intentional, but in retrospect i find it significant that as a civilian he better represents ALL MANKIND instead of a potential military occupation of the moon.

  107. 107.

    artem1s

    @Eyeroller:

    they practiced all this hundreds or thousands of times until it was second nature.

    That’s kind of the point. They put in the time. They took it seriously.
    And they had a real understanding of the science born out of hundreds of thousands of hours of working the problem before it became a problem. And by doing so they established trust in each other and the team. The lofty and the mundane. No detail was too small. The astronauts were just the top layer of the tip of the iceberg.

  108. 108.

    eclare

    @Elizabelle:

    I think of Amir whenever Liverpool plays or there is a big metric football tournament.  His not commenting on some big matches clued me in, in a bad way.

  109. 109.

    Belafon

    @oldgold: Was Neil Armstrong our first humble hero?

    Sorry, but your question is silly. Why is he a hero? I work with a lot of firemen? Have you heard about them? What about those Coast Guard people that dangle from the end of a rope to rescue someone?

  112. 112.

    Elizabelle

    @Another Scott:  That is good.  Honestly, I don’t see the MSM pack of lemmings coming back from this charade.  If we suspected before, we know they are full of shit fabulists now.

  114. 114.

    Another Scott

    @Trivia Man: It was absolutely intentional.

    As someone upthread said, a big reason why the Space Race was conducted was for “Rah Rah USA, we won’t let the Communists beat us again!” ;-) reasons.  Having a civilian be first was part of that.

    The fact that Neil was an amazing test pilot was icing on the cake.  ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  115. 115.

    zhena gogolia

    @schrodingers_cat: All I saw was the headline on the Opinion page: “Joe Biden and Trump have broken our reality” or some shit like that.

    I’ve never been a fan, but fuck them.

  117. 117.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Mousebumples: Pelosi’s is singing a pro Biden tune now, as is her daughter.

    The coup plotters thought we didn’t see through their let’s anoint Kamala to the take the fall scheme

    I am waiting for someone to trot out that poll of black women from ages 18-55 again, misrepresented as a poll of (all) black women.

  118. 118.

    zhena gogolia

    @schrodingers_cat: I finally saw the Lofgren clip in the middle of the Shontel Brown clip. The arrogance is breathtaking.

    People I had such respect for. I guess you can’t tell character by appearances in Congressional hearings.

  119. 119.

    Layer8Problem

    @Elizabelle:  Damn.  A very much missed absent friend.  I’d love to hear his thoughts about our current michegoss from his vantage, as well as about his cat.

  120. 120.

    Xentik

    @schrodingers_cat: In other news, Satire was found dead on the side of the road, victim of what seems to have been an execution-style killing. Anonymous sources say that this turn of events may be good for John McCain.

    DougJ/NYTPitchBot might as well retire at this point.

  123. 123.

    schrodingers_cat

    @zhena gogolia: So many of these white liberals and their attitudes are not different than Kipling of the infamous White Man (woman)’s burden. They think of non-white Ds as bishtis (watercarriers).

    At least MAGAs don’t pretend that they have my good at heart or pretend to represent my interests while completely disregarding what I have to say.

  124. 124.

    Yarrow

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Happy birthday! Celebrate in style.

    FYI, there was at least one additional response to you in that thread yesterday re your DIL’s situation. Just in case you hadn’t seen it.

  125. 125.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Black Voters Matter Writes Open Letter Denouncing Calls For President Biden To Drop Out Of The Election

    During the 2024 Democratic Presidential Primary, Black Voters overwhelmingly came out and voted for the Biden-Harris ticket, just as they did in 2020 in order to have an ally in the White House who would invest in our communities, implement greater police accountability, fund HBCU at higher levels, join the fight to protect voting and civil rights, alleviate student debt plaguing so many Black families, and appoint more Black judges to the federal courts—including the Supreme Court—to protect against the onslaught of regressive federal court rulings that hurt Black and Marginalized communities.

    To the majority of Black Voters, the Biden-Harris ticket has delivered on enough of those promises to stand with this ticket today. In spite of this, the recent nervous cry for Biden to step aside—led largely by white congresspeople, pundits, and donors—threatens to mute and overlook the voices of Black Voters. Such a step by the Democratic Party would not only impact the enthusiasm of Black Voters in this year’s general election, but it would impact Black turnout for decades to come while deepening the widespread belief that the Democratic Party takes our voters for granted.

    We believe it is both reckless and shortsighted to change the nominee this late in the process, and history supports our belief. A brokered/contested convention has never worked well for Dems: not in 1968, not in 1980, not in 2016 and not likely this year. To Black Voters, a contested convention which overlooks VP Harris as the assumed nominee, is a step too far, and such a strategy poses the greatest threat of benefitting the twice impeached, authoritarian rapist with multiple felony convictions.

    Also, time and time again grassroots organizers on the ground are called upon and depended upon to deliver the vote of marginalized communities. Billionaires, celebrities and political pundits have the right to their opinions but they don’t speak with or motivate our communities. Groups like ours do. Based on our years of organizing in some of the most difficult circumstances we DO NOT believe this is the moment to take a risky and ill prepared move that can further splinter the vote and add confusion to the process for voters. 

    At BVM we support a democratic process that honors the voices and contributions that Black people and other marginalized communities have made to the Democratic Party. We demand that the party and its donors respect the process that was put in place, a process which for the first time ever was led by South Carolina and which resulted in over 14 million votes—many by Black voters—for the Biden-Harris ticket. On the 60th anniversary of Fannie Lou Hamer asking, “is this America”, now is not the time to go back to a period such as the 1964 Democratic Convention, where Black People were openly ignored and literally locked out of the process. Contrary to what Donald Trump, the Heritage Foundation and Republican congresspeople believe, things were not better for us during Jim Crow.

    In closing, we recognize the importance of dissent to ensure that all voices are heard during this important time. There are those in our movement who have just concerns and demands regarding the war in Gaza. Such principled policy debate is fair game, as is critique of the candidate who seeks to ban all Muslims, expel protestors from the country and give Netanyahu carte blanche. But the hyperbolic, coordinated and well-funded dissent over the past two weeks is something very different. Dissent that seeks to dismantle the Biden/Harris ticket solely on a debate performance, unreliable polls (which are actually moving in favor of President Biden) and/or quiet but racist paranoia over the vice president potentially stepping into the presidency, is not productive dissent and should cease immediately. 

    We must focus solely on defeating Trump, who if re-elected will implement Project 2025 and remove all civil and human rights Black folks have fought for over 500 years . Moreover, a Trump presidency, including further transformation of the Supreme Court and the entire federal workforce, will block progress on every issue important to Black communities, including reparations.

    Let’s not give the other side new attack angles, talking points and fresh meat to attack and/or devour. Buckle up, do the work, have some courage and stay the course to create the society and the world we all need and deserve.

  127. 127.

    artem1s

    @Trivia Man: Armstrong was also has an MS in aeronautical engineering and was in the marching band in college. He was a geek. Not a BMOC. This was all after he served in Korea. Probably GI Bill benefits. He got a hand up. But he didn’t buy his way into space the way Apartheid Clyde is trying to.

  128. 128.

    3Sice

    Dipshit is/was in Michigan with his new favorite son*. The half-life of that relationship going sour is measured in minutes.

    *Somewhere Don Jr. sheds a single solitary tear.

  129. 129.

    Darkrose

    @Eyeroller: A couple days ago I posted this from Rebecca Solnit:

    “Harassed in a hallway by ABC’s Rachel Scott, Nancy Pelosi said she thinks Biden can win and complained elsewhere that, “I think the President is great. And there are some misrepresentations of what I have said. I never said he should reconsider his decision. The decision is the president’s. I don’t know what’s happened in New York Times that they make up news.””

    In that same piece Solnit shares this:

    ”When Senator Richard Blumenthal said, “I am deeply concerned about Joe Biden winning this November, because it is an existential threat to the country if Donald Trump wins. Joe Biden as the Democratic nominee has my support,” MSNBC tweeted that Blumenthal said, “I am deeply concerned about Joe Biden.””

    The media is wired for Democrats in Disarray, and they will run with that even if they have to literally make shit up. Unless I  see it directly from someone as with Schiff or Lofgren, I am not going to trust the “sources close to Pelosi” or “those familiar with Obama’s thinking.”

  134. 134.

    3Sice

    NBC story taking the bark of off Kamala now. Those anonymous democratic donors again.

    🙄 🖕

  137. 137.

    zhena gogolia

    @Bupalos: No, I don’t know who’s suggesting Romney. But Gessen is in the pile-on in today’s paper. They always pull out the big guns for the Sunday Opinion section.

  138. 138.

    Gvg

    @satby: I watched from I think Ireland. I was 5 about to turn 6 and we were on a long planned 13 European countries in 6 weeks of summer. My parents were poor growing up and craved travel so they saved and we camped and did that trip cheap. We watched the landing in a pub. My birthday was in Paris later. I remember being impressed that other countries cared about that landing.

    Dad worked at the cape on the Apollo program. I love the space program but I also know some of its flaws. NASA learned to be paranoid and cover everything up because funding was always such a battle. The result was safety issues that were covered up, and lies. But the politicians attacking them such as Proxmire were full of shit liars too, like Alex Jones or McCarthy. News were idiots then for a story too.

  141. 141.

    artem1s

    @schrodingers_cat:

    they want Ds to nominate Romney.

    Well I guess I lost that bet with myself. I thought for sure the shadow candidate who was going to save us all from TCFG was going to be John Kasich.

  143. 143.

    moonbat

    @3Sice: I saw that this morning and left a less than supportive comment. The story begs us to sympathize with the poor mega donors not being able to order the vice president to shiv Biden in the back.

    Can you really be a MOTU when you can’t overturn the results of a major political party’s presidential primary?​

    Oh the humanity!

  144. 144.

    Jackie

    @MomSense: You truly walk the talk! You may truly have saved that woman’s life. Thank you for that, and sharing it with us!♥️

  148. 148.

    artem1s

    @3Sice: how many Scaramuccis is Vance going to last I wonder?

    I’m still surprised TCFG didn’t find a way to put off the VP choice until the last possible minute. Has to be the money. I wonder if he will try ditching Vance for some minor offense and then opening up the bidding war again. He’s got insurmountable money problems. The donor rumors about withholding donations from Biden showed their assses. It’s always projection with these assholes. You can bet the GOP oligarchs aren’t happy having to pay his legal bills and have started to whinge bigly that they have to foot the bill for this shitshow of a campaign.

  151. 151.

    M31

    @me: ​
     

    Trump is furious the press is reporting true things about him and Biden is furious the press is reporting made up bullshit about him

    “Both sides mad at press” — the NYT, probably

  152. 152.

    3Sice

    @artem1s:

    I guess Glen Youngkin is wandering back to the private sector after his term ends.

    Gregg Abbot would love to get the hell out of Texas. The national press and GOP don’t take him seriously on account of the wheelchair.

  154. 154.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Bupalos: [Biden] and his crew have been unable to switch to a team oriented message.

    It takes two a party to tango do a conga line.

    My biggest disappointment here as someone who wanted Biden to retire (and thinks he still probably will)

    Also, this is not good for anyone, to put it kindly.

  155. 155.

    Eyeroller

    @Darkrose: I don’t really want to get into this again but Nancy was not as misconstrued as she claimed. Commenters here who watched that interview picked up on her equivocating.

  156. 156.

    zhena gogolia

    @M31: The NYT has him “ill and isolated” (which is what happens when you have Covid), raging naked on the heath like King Lear.

  159. 159.

    WereBear

    I gotta admire the panache of this particular shark jumping.

    Mr “Corporations are People my friend” Romney. Has he ever been a member of the Democratic Party? He loves barbed wire on the compounds where the workers sleep. Let him run on that.

  160. 160.

    MomSense

    Masha Gessen was just convicted by Russia in absentia so I think they are entitled to their opinion.  Their life is on the line should Trump and Vance win this election.

  161. 161.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @artem1s: Romney built the biggest and most dangerous part of the permission structure that gave us Trump. He proved that you could lie non-stop and the media would never call you on it.

    So exactly what I expect from media dipshits.

  162. 162.

    M31

    Every day I think I’ve seen the dumbest hot take on what the Dems should do, and every day I’m wrong.

  163. 163.

    Trivia Man

    @artem1s: My prediction: Vance is the big money choice and they are banking on T to get out if the way. An Illness, an “illness”, in prison (hah! As if!), death (he is not a healthy man, no matter what Ronnie says), or undeniable dementia.

    Now that would be an October Surprise for the history books. “Elect us and ill step down letting JD select a new VP like Johnny Unbeatable or something.” In exchange he is promised $$ and no federal prosecution.

  164. 164.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @schrodingers_cat: I read a snippet of Gessen’s FTFNYT op-ed, which was on the order of “this year’s RNC has moderated and is much less fascistic than 2016.” Magically not seeing the sea of “Mass Deportation Now” signs. Maybe a case of pundit brain?

  166. 166.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Darkrose: So much of this bullshit has all been fueled by vague statements taken out of context.  If I were interviewed and said “Joe Biden has been the greatest, most-Progressive President of my lifetime and is our best chance to beat Trump, but he can’t win unless we all support him unequivocally.”  The quote would become evidence that I admit “Biden…can’t win!”

  168. 168.

    oldgold

    Everyone deserves a personal zone of privacy; however, when you are POTUS or a legitimate candidate for the office of POTUS, that personal zone of privacy should shrink to a considerable degree.

    And, for the most part, in recent times this has been accepted by Presidents and individuals seeking the office (medical records, tax returns, finances, etc). Except, of course, for the black hole that is Trump.

    This most recent episode with his ear is an outrageous example of this The occurrence was public to the max. The occurrence is being publicly used by Trump and his cohorts to boost his public persona. It is also possible, the incident may have impaired him physically, emotionally and/or psychologically. Yet, as to what happened to his ear, a part of the body heretofore not categorized as one’s “privates” (My mom’s lingo from decades ago), we are expected expected to accept a written statement from a disgraced drug dispenser, decommissioned doctor, MAGA miscreant and dipsomaniac, who did not examine Trump after the incident – Dr. Ronny Jackson. It is insulting.

    The same media that demands to know if Biden has toe fungus, lets this pass. This is an easy story and possibly a big one. What the hell is going on?

  169. 169.

    Eyeroller

    @zhena gogolia: Agreed, but if this had gone on much longer it might have been too late. Every day another couple of House Dems releasing “Step Aside Joe” letters to keep the news cycle focused on that and the pressure up. Precious days immediately after the RNC lost while the media was kept chasing that ball.

  171. 171.

    Geminid

      “stop worrying and start working”

    Rep. Brown’s words remind me of a gospel song I heard this morning. It was Mahalia Jackson singing, “Keep Your Hand on the Plow.”

  173. 173.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I love Aaron Sorkin’s writing ability and imagination, but  FTFNYT should never have considered running this flight of impossible fancy as a serious opinion piece.

    Oh, BTW, Romney is the same age as only a year younger than TCFFG. If that matters.

     

    Edited for factual accuracy and shit.

  174. 174.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @MomSense: Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  But people are not obligated to respect all opinions.  And, even if one does respect it, one is not obligated to agree with it.

  175. 175.

    WereBear

    @Trivia Man: The first episode of Columbo, starring the awesome Lee Grant, spun on a point of the killer’s behavior which revealed guilt.

    It went something like:

    “The murderer would make a cold-blooded decision, again. That was a cold-blooded murder.”

  176. 176.

    Spanky

    @zhena gogolia:

    The NYT has him “ill and isolated” (which is what happens when you have Covid), raging naked on the heath like King Lear.

    “Blow winds, blow!” Standing in front of an air conditioner in the DC summer.

  177. 177.

    zhena gogolia

    They’re entitled to their opinion and so am I. My opinion is that Masha Gessen should go fuck themselves.

  178. 178.

    Eyeroller

    @oldgold: ​ People like Josh Marshall believe that the media wants to keep access to the Trump campaign and would be cut off if they pushed the issue. We’ve already seen the media double standard in full flower, so it’s plausible.

    He’s already stopped wearing the “bandage” and his ear is perfectly fine. As I’ve said repeatedly, if he was grazed by a bullet the skin would be shredded, and if he was hit by a bullet he wouldn’t have an ear and maybe not part of his head.

  180. 180.

    Trivia Man

    @schrodingers_cat: i called my rep Pocan twice. Left a fiery voice mail then later spoke to a staffer. Main point was – why isnt he talking about the batshit acceptance speech? It was a golden opportunity to expose trump as a dangerous message and instead they are talking about YOU and democrats in disarray.

    They politely listened.

  183. 183.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I didn’t know this until now, but apparently Masha uses they/them pronouns.

    ETA: Which will go over super-well in a potential Project 2025 regime.

  184. 184.

    M31

    @WereBear: Maybe you’re not being stupid enough?

    yeah, maybe I’ll reinstate my NYT subscription, that will prep me for the future

    next up:  “OK, Romney wasn’t the best idea, here’s the best idea: Manchin/Liz Cheney” that will unify the unifiers!

    omg I’m getting dumber, it’s working

  186. 186.

    3Sice

    @moonbat:

    It’s a bit from a Christopher Guest movie.

    Kamala: You cut me out of any deal…

    ADD*:  See… she’s stonewalling us.

    *anonymous democratic donors

  188. 188.

    WereBear

    In a very black humor sort of way I remind myself that these megalomaniac uber-rich are prone to very bad decisions, such as wrecking the nation, US dollar, and world economy affects them, too.

    It’s very hard to get good help during a worldwide catastrophe. And I don’t think any of them know how to survive in any kind of Thunderdome situation.

    Which would get into an argument about just how much Nuremberg they deserve, and if there is enough Nuremberg in the world for them.

    As I said before about Trump, he’s one bad bottle of ketchup away from J D Vance snatching the crown from his tiny hands.

    And Vance chose psychopathy.

  189. 189.

    MomSense

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Never said that we all need to respect each other’s opinions.  Obviously that is not the case at B-J.  It’s just really tiresome to see all the assigned motivations, conspiracies, and insults.   Whatever.  I’m trying to figure out if or how I can still be loosely connected to the community here. Not sure if I can.

  190. 190.

    SatanicPanic

    So what do we think happened to Trump? Glass hit his ear? Maybe his his head? The smallest cut on your head bleeds like crazy

  196. 196.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @schrodingers_cat: Joe is so old because Kamala is black.

    This may be true in the media, but not everywhere.

    If I made this claim to those worried about Biden’s age in my life I’ll be rightfully shut down.  Any guesses why?

  198. 198.

    SFAW

    @Eyeroller: ​
     

    Buzz is the only living crew member but CAPCOM Charley Duke is also still alive.

    Flight Director Gene Kranz is also alive. An amazing man.

  199. 199.

    SatanicPanic

    @MomSense: the assumptions of being bamboozled by the news if you think Biden can’t win seems pretty consistent across what’s left of the blogosphere. I don’t know how people reconcile everything. Like people are saying “I saw what I saw”.  I know I did, and not even at the debate. I thought he was in really bad shape even before that. I don’t know how I could go along with something that doesn’t square with what I’ve seen. I feel like there’s an unbridgeable gap here.

  200. 200.

    NeenerNeener

    @artem1s: I know “Doughy Pantload” is the Driftglass nickname for Jonah Goldberg, but I can’t see a picture of Vance without thinking it fits him, too. I guess he’ll have to be Doughy Pantload 2.0.

  201. 201.

    WereBear

    We knew there was the Fox-News/Beer/Recliner bubble.

    Apparently, there is also the Bloomberg-channel/single-malt/Duncan Fyfe bubble.

  202. 202.

    moonbat

    @3Sice: Har! No kidding.

    Two things amazed me about that piece. One the complete lack of self awareness from the donor class who apparently expected to be able to give orders. And two, the breathless reporting of the donors’ dismay at not being able to give orders as if their readers would all agree that they should have been allowed to give orders.

  203. 203.

    O. Felix Culpa

    I miss Amir too. Always enjoyed reading his perspective on politics, as well as his progress with his guitar playing and acquisitions.

  204. 204.

    mrstealyourcostcosample

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: this is correct.  Biden was on a “me” message because the attacks were on his personal fitness and competency! a team oriented approach is absurd.

    “mr. president! you are a fumbling old shit-eater who has foot parkinsons! you can’t win, stop dragging us down!!”

    “never fear! together we can overcome…me?”

  206. 206.

    Percysowner

     

    @schrodingers_cat:

     I don’t read FTFNYT, but I don’t interpret the headline as Sorkin pushing Romney, I see it as him saying IF I was writing a television show, where I control the outcome and voters will be swayed by bipartisanship, I would nominate a (supposedly in real life, but really in TV) moderate from the other party. It makes great television. It hits all the “this nation is great and reasonable and we can all work for the same goals” heartwarming message that people love to watch.

    I agree, in FICTION, putting someone like Romney at the head of the ticket works great. He becomes part of the Democratic Party, sees the light, wins because the people love compromise and governs the way the Part wants to. IRL, not so much.

  208. 208.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @SatanicPanic: I saw what I saw too and that is that Biden is exceedingly knowledgeable, but has communication issues.  I can’t unsee that either and the accusations of gaslighting (even though you didn’t personally use this term it is very much out there) the accusations of gaslighting are really getting to me.

    If we’re gonna look for perpetrators and victims of gaslighting, one might consider which POV has saturation media coverage across television and the internet.

  209. 209.

    Eyeroller

    @SatanicPanic: ​ Some kind of debris. That is further supported by reports that cops standing “a few feet away” were hit by debris and suffered minor injuries. Doesn’t have to be glass, could be just about anything that was hit and sent flying. And TBH it doesn’t look like it really even bled all that much.

  210. 210.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @MomSense: ​
      I think it would be unfortunate if you left. Feelings are running high right now. For the most part, it is because we all know how important this election is. There are a number of people who seem to want to up the ante all the time and a few who (weirdly) see this situation as an intellectual game and want to have theoretical discussions. Use the pie filter liberally if you need to, but I hope you don’t go.

  211. 211.

    Geminid

    @3Sice: Youngkin will run for President in 2028. He started the night he beat McAuliffe in November, 2021.

    Youngkin might start up some sort of think tank  platform, but I expect he’ll spend much of 2026 and 2027 speaking and shmoozing at various County and State Lincoln-Reagan dinners. His staff will prepare a briefing book for each one and Fongkin’ Youngkin will study it thoroughly.

    Youngkin is a good retail politician and that had a lot to do with him winning the Governor’s race. He was an earnest, plausible man who managed to seem all things to all people.

  212. 212.

    WereBear

    @SatanicPanic: It’s because you ignore the eight days of rallies and interviews after.

    If THAT didn’t soothe you, grapple with your own sense of mortality on your own time.

    And now, some pie.

  213. 213.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @schrodingers_cat: Basically don’t be a Democrat.

    I almost wrote “many a true word is spoken in jest,” considering your previous post about Romney to be humor. Perhaps “first as tragedy, second as farce” would be more appropriate. We have moved into totally crazy it seems to me.

  214. 214.

    Tony Jay

    @NeenerNeener:

    Doughier Pantload.

    I mean, there’s a lot to rip that creepy fakepod apart over, but the fact he looks like he’s been slow poached over a very low heat for 20 hours then sprinkled with medium-hygiene rat-hair while still wet and absorbent should be on the list somewhere.

  218. 218.

    Bupalos

     

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Joe is so old because he was born in 1943. He’s so old in the political sense because around April he began having age-related problems doing things politicians are expected to do, like finish remarks coherently at fundraisers and party celebratory events. Because friendly foreign leaders who fear a return of Trump leaked concern about interaction they had with him. All of which raised concern with pols to higher levels then ever before. Then Biden shocked pretty much everyone with a kind of unprecedented performance at his high-leverage campaign-arranged theory-of-victory debate. A lot of people including the vast majority of dem pols looked at that totality and decided the balance of risks here landed on the side of desiring Joe decide to step aside.

    that’s reality. It’s not a conspiracy, the party is not a “treason” machine full of secret wreckers. There is a legitimate, organic and very reasonable feeling among a wide range of people a likely majority of democrats, and a certain large majority of pols that Biden is making a mistake in insisting on staying on D’s top line.

    It is also reality that as always and as ever in party politics there are a variety of interests less aligned with Biden whether he was compromised or not. Folks that will see his current weakness opportunistically, a chance to move in their preferred direction. Which can be further left or further right or limited to a single issue that dominates for them. That’s a permanent reality of politics.

    When you take that second reality and use it to erase the first, you’re making an error in politics as well as in reality. You start to see everyone with a difference of opinion on means as an opponent or an enemy. Someone with defective character who you come to insist must have different ends.

    it doesn’t matter much on a blog. I hope no one lets this kind of purity-pony stuff run outside of that. I hope folks can refrain from showing their disdain and calling names outside this space which I think we can say has unified (largely via vehemence) around a largely homogenous position. Folks have legitimate different opinions about how to move forward. They aren’t your enemies. Effective politics and effective communication requires emphasizing our common goals, not our differences in the best ways to accomplish them.

  219. 219.

    Kay

    @SatanicPanic:

    I don’t know how I could go along with something that doesn’t square with what I’ve seen. I feel like there’s an unbridgeable gap here.

     

    This is what you’re describing. It’s not just you, which is the problem.

  222. 222.

    MomSense

    @zhena gogolia:

    You told me I was supporting trump when I have repeatedly said I will vote for our nominee and volunteer for our nominee.  Trump is a threat to people I care about. So yeah, fuck off for saying that to me.  It was a hurtful and insulting thing to say.

    I think you are wrong and that your preferred option is more likely to lead to a trump win but I never said that you wanted trump to win.  I have assumed good faith but that doesn’t mean I have to accept being treated badly.  I don’t deserve to be treated badly by you.

  226. 226.

    WereBear

    @moonbat:

    Two things amazed me about that piece. One the complete lack of self awareness from the donor class who apparently expected to be able to give orders. And two, the breathless reporting of the donors’ dismay at not being able to give orders as if their readers would all agree that they should have been allowed to give orders.

     
    Thank you for the fine prose nutshell that means I won’t click over there, get frisked for personal information while I try to escape their coils, and lose my carefully built browser, loaded for the morn.

  228. 228.

    SatanicPanic

    @Eyeroller: this seems plausible. It bled a decent amount- enough for it to run down his face. I hit my face on the ground a few weeks ago and it bled a bit more than that, but it was only about a cm cut. I think he got hit with something, but like other people are saying, a bullet would have left a much bigger mark.

  230. 230.

    3Sice

    I see Sean O’Brien is on the path to joining Jimmy Hoffa as a former Teamsters leader.

    Everything Trump touches turns to shit.

  231. 231.

    Eyeroller

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Biden actually does have a neurological issue.  It’s a fluency disorder and he’s had it pretty much all his life.  It is likely getting harder to manage as he ages.

    People seem to think that “stuttering” means you talk like Porky Pig and that’s funny! and he doesn’t do that.  What it actually is, is miscommunication between different parts of the brain involved in generating speech.  If that breaks down completely the person can seem to lose their train of thought (perhaps in part because they are trying so hard to get that communication working again).

    But it’s just impossible to explain this to people who leaped to “dementia” as the explanation.  They won’t accept it.

    If the requirement for Biden is to always talk in complete sentences and never jumble or mix up words, that’s impossible for somebody with his condition, so he’ll fail that requirement.

  232. 232.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    She told me the same thing. They went after raven for some ridiculous alleged “offense” too, but he of course takes shit off no one so they stopped.

  233. 233.

    Almost Retired

    @MomSense:  What a wonderful and inspirational story.  And with wolves as a bonus!  May I suggest you email this post to WaterGirl to include in the new “reports from the field” tag in the 2024 Activism tab?

  234. 234.

    WereBear

    @Geminid: If there is such a thing as charisma, only for an amazing ability to repel functional human beings, like

    Repulsma

    then J D Vance is covered with glory. He is Wormtongue.

  236. 236.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @SatanicPanic: Which is why I’d rather look at Biden’s work product, what actually got done, than concern myself with subjective notions of image.

  237. 237.

    M31

    @O. Felix Culpa: I just finished Moby Dick. Holy shit it’s so good, and has so many wild funny parts, page after page of philosophizing about categorizing whales, the best bromance ever between Ishmael and Queequeg, and a crazy exciting ending.

  238. 238.

    zhena gogolia

    @Kay: I am definitely going, but I’ll just say I don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. I have never tried to get anyone banned.

  240. 240.

    Percysowner

     

    So the whole Dump Biden brouhaha has had an impact on me, I’m less likely to send money to out of state politicians who are calling for his removal. I’m not going to pull my monthly donation to my Senator Sherrod Brown, although I feel less good about it. We need to keep Ohio and Brown has been on the right side almost all of the time. When John Tester emails/texts me, I’m not inclined to throw money at him at least for now. I have in the past, but I’m holding off now. I know we need to hold his seat. Once this whole thing is finally settled one way or the other, I will go back to my giving him money. Until then, I’m putting it on hold, because I think he is damaging our chance to win by fueling the flames of this debate.

    I know he is in a Red State and has to make moves that Democrats in safe states don’t have to (I’m looking at you Schumer) so I can cut him some slack, just not at this moment.

  241. 241.

    MinuteMan

    Stop worrying and start working.

    Taking down the Magat-in-Chief and the Magatty GQP at all ballot levels should be like shooting fish in a barrel once we get clear of the defeatists in the party and the SchadenFreude enthusiasts in the media.

  242. 242.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    I remember.  Ironically the two people who said they would not pledge their votes to the Democrat were not us.

  244. 244.

    Yarrow

    @MomSense:  I always value you opinions, insights and experience. I personally would like you to continue to comment but understand if you choose not to because it’s too difficult.

    FWIW, I was told I was a dick and should find some other blog to comment on. Since then I have commented only once or twice and only for something like sharing info with Dorothy Winsor yesterday. I no longer feel connected here in the same way. Because I was told to go away. So I certainly get where you are coming from. You have to take care of yourself.

  245. 245.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Eyeroller: If the requirement for Biden is to always talk in complete sentences and never jumble or mix up words, that’s impossible for somebody with his condition, so he’ll fail that requirement.

    That’s impossible for people without his condition. Who among hasn’t flubbed their speech?

  246. 246.

    Kay

    I know this is a “no information” zone but Biden is down 7 in Michigan and Pelosi and Obama aren’t just gonna hand this country over to Trump out of some ridiculous sense of loyalty to one man in his bunker, so get ready. They’re going to fight.

    All Biden has to do is endorse Harris and step aside and this is over. She’s already outraising Biden and outdrawing Biden at events. Jump in! The waters FINE.

  247. 247.

    zhena gogolia

    Wow, I’ve been out of high school for a long time. I never really wanted to go back there. I guess some people never left.

  250. 250.

    Trivia Man

    @SatanicPanic: Having seen pics that both teleprompters were intact, I have changed my guess frm a shard of glass to some other unknown piece of random debris kicked up by a bullet. Several USSS agents also had minor debris wounds. But I am still very skeptical that he was touched by a bullet. Show us the long form medical records! What is he hiding?

  251. 251.

    M31

    @Lapassionara: “Has the Trump campaign peaked too soon?”

    I think the Trump campaign peaked when they released the transcript of the acceptance speech.

    After Trump actually opened his vulgar whiny droning tedious deranged little piehole for 90 minutes, it’s been all downhill.

    The newspapers that published “today was the day … Trump … presidential … unity” got punked bigtime and showed their whole asses. We’ll see if they actually get called on it.

  252. 252.

    kindness

    I was 12 years old when they landed on the moon.  East coast time, the first steps on the moon happened about 11 or 12 at night.  My family was gathered around the tv.  I had fallen asleep earlier but my Ma woke me up about 10 minutes before the famous steps.  I think I stayed around for another 1/2 hour and went to bed.  Amazing moments in our shared existence.

  253. 253.

    Jackie

    Saw on a headline somewhere: “With deepest regret, I fear Joe must step down.” Joe Manchin.

    I didn’t click. 😡

  254. 254.

    WereBear

    @zhena gogolia: I never wanted to go in the first place. I wanted to GED out of there and start community college. There was a gifted child program in place.

    SIgh. Mother was hung up on old movies and sock hops, I think. And in the Deep South that would have basically marked me as unmarriageable.

  255. 255.

    Bupalos

    As I finish my coffee and prepare to head across the street and try to snag some orientation students… Let’s remember that we’re all observers to this process and not able to inflect it with what we say here.

    my opinion as an observer is that what we’re seeing right now with pelosi and Jeffries  is the  party trying to manage the narrative around a coming withdrawal. They are deesacalating and returning to “we support whatever Biden decides” messaging.

  256. 256.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    “Ironically” – or….predictably.

    They’ll coalesce around Harris, but we will need Biden’s delegates to be freed up even if he won’t endorse her.

  257. 257.

    lowtechcyclist

    @artem1s: ​
     

    My favorite point in the mission is the Go, No-Go for DOI (descent orbit insertion). It’s a ‘point of no return’ moment. Once the lunar module undocks and starts descending it has to land. Armstrong can’t change his mind on the way down. If something goes wrong, there is no turning around.

    That can’t be true – Apollo 10 did exactly that. Wikipedia:

    After the spacecraft reached lunar orbit, astronaut John Young remained in the Command and Service Module (CSM) while astronauts Thomas Stafford and Gene Cernan flew the Apollo Lunar Module (LM) to within 14.4 kilometers (7.8 nmi) of the lunar surface, the point at which powered descent for landing would begin on a landing mission. After four orbits they rejoined Young in the CSM

    So the Apollo 10 lunar module undocked from the command module, descended to 8 miles of the lunar surface, then went back up and rejoined the command module.

    That’s actually why my 15 year old self wasn’t particularly excited about the moon landing itself – it seemed like they’d already done everything but. To me, Apollo 8 breaking free of Earth’s gravity and going around the moon and back was the big deal, but after both Apollo 8 and Apollo 10, Apollo 11 just seemed anticlimactic.

  258. 258.

    Percysowner

     

    I value the posters here. I will note that there is a great Pie Filter that lets you avoid people who are triggering you, without having to leave the board. I have practically worn it out the last week or so. The nice thing is, once things settle down and get back to normal, you can try un-Pieing and see if those people are less of an issue, or you can just keep seeing pictures that make you want to go out an buy a pie.

  259. 259.

    Suzanne

    @MomSense: @Yarrow:

    FWIW, which is not much….. I very much enjoy having you both here, and I hope you stay active commenters. Of course, do what’s best for you. But please know that that opinion is not shared.

  260. 260.

    E

    @artem1s: I have been assuming that Vance was the precise solution to these insurmountable money problems you mention. Didn’t he come with a very sizable dowry?

  261. 261.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Bupalos: As I finish my coffee and prepare to head across the street and try to snag some orientation students… Let’s remember that we’re all observers to this process and not able to inflect it with what we say here.

    Screw that.  Call and/or fax any D representation you have.

  263. 263.

    SatanicPanic

    @Kay: yeah it’s not just me. And that link pretty well describes my journey. I’d already seen things that were concerning. I’d already thought Biden’s relatively quiet campaign was weird given the circumstances. Then I heard reactions from 3 people who I don’t often talk politics with the day after the debate and they were all despondent. I felt like- ok it’s not just me. So now what? If we don’t replace him, I can’t imagine it going well. But people are dug in on the other side too. It might be unfixable

  264. 264.

    Trivia Man

    @Percysowner: I enjoyed the west wing story arc about the supreme court, but partly because it was so ridiculously over the edge into fantasy land. Short version – 2 court vacancies at the same time, President Bartlett nominates an extremely capable and honest liberal AND an extremely capable and honest conservative. That ends the  confirmation blockade and sets up the court for decades of vigorous and constructive disagreements that are certain to be for the greater good because OF COURSE the best ideas always win. Happily ever after and… SCENE.

  265. 265.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @kindness: ​
      I was still four. We were on a summer long trip out west and watched the landing on someone tiny portable TV at a campsite (maybe Yosemite?). To be frank, I am not sure if I remember it or if I have been told about it so much that I think I do.

  267. 267.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @MomSense: Look, I disagree with you profoundly on this matter.

    Several years ago, you helped me with a hugely consequential life problem. I will never forget that.

    We all want the same thing which is no fascists.🤗

  270. 270.

    Trivia Man

    @Eyeroller: “Nobody has ever seen so much blood!” or some such nonsense from the liar in chief. We know ANY blood makes him queasy, to him that looked like it was gushing. That seems like a fin clip to make viral… the footage of him with small red streaks and over that his voice intoning about BLOOD EVERYWHERE. Anybody who has ever had a bloody nose will laugh at his histrionics.

  271. 271.

    Tony Jay

    By the wizened foreskin of Fortimas the Exotic, are people here still trying to fit the corporate media blitzkrieg against Biden into a “Why are our Medias not working good?” box?

    Stench is a shitty candidate with a massive, unquenchable hole for legal fees where the RNC should be. The 1% looked at the odds, looked at what happened in France and the UK when the offer was The Right or Anyone Else and decided they’d prefer to put their money into buying up the ‘Anyone Else’ option while they still could.

    That’s what we’re seeing and reacting to here. Everything else is technical schematics with an unhealthy dose of brute force trial and error.

    So FFS. Ignore or pie the trolls. Ignore or pie the ‘only the unclean could possibly disagree with me about any of my obsessions’ chorus. Ignore or pie whoever you need to. But get your heads in the game and remember that you’re part of a coalition that is opposed by actual, genuine BRINKS TRUCKS FULL OF CASH and the media infrastructure that they own.

    That is all.

  273. 273.

    E

    @Kay: you keep saying this and we keep saying yeah but what about AOC’s concerns and then . . . silence for awhile, then more “The polls are bad join us the water is fine” and away we go again and it’s just so tiresome. This doesn’t have to be an information free zone. I feel you are helping make it that.

  274. 274.

    Trivia Man

    @Omnes Omnibus: Agree. Mom Sense is a beacon of action. I started using pie last week and it is helpful. Still only a few in my pie safe but that makes it better. Plus those lengthy tirades don’t make me scoll past them… just a cute piece of pie or, often, Eeyore giving me a sad look.

  275. 275.

    MomSense

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    I’ll be direct with you.  Unlike your non apology apology – yes I was insulted by your comment to me.  This is the first time I have ever disagreed with the POC bloggers here.  First time in I don’t know 15 years or however long it has been.  And I have tried to say repeatedly that the opinion on this blog and on twitter is not representative of POC in general.  It’s not representative of the polling such as it is or my friends and colleagues IRL.  The reasons that others have assigned to me for why I have the opinion I have I don’t even recognize.  Your comment was insulting and condescending and I’m really tired of being treated that way here.  And I don’t think it really matters what I say to some of you and I get exasperated because I’m fucking human and sick of it.

    I will continue to assign good faith to the people here who disagree with me and I don’t expect the rest of you to do the same – most haven’t including you.  I don’t have to accept it.

  276. 276.

    SatanicPanic

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I don’t think it’s just about image. If the problem were Biden wearing bad neckties I would be less worried. You look at Biden and see a man capable of winning the election and doing the job for four more years. I see a man who I don’t think can do either on account of his either mental or physical condition (or both). Don’t know how to square that.

  280. 280.

    Kay

    @SatanicPanic:

    The commentors here are wrong about Biden’s campaign funds, too. Trump lapped him in June. The funding edge is gone, because Biden spent 100 million on ads in MI, PA and WI and Trump spent nothing.

    I think it’s understandable people were shocked. They hadn’t really heard any extemporaneous speaking from Biden for a year and then WHOMP, big decline. It’s not their fault and it’s not your fault. I still have some hope. People are desperate for an option. If we can somehow get them Harris they’ll rally. But it’s up to Joe Biden. He can decide to do the right, hard thing or not. If he endorses Harris this whole thing gets a lot easier.

  283. 283.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @SatanicPanic: You say he can’t. I say we can’t be sure.

    A salient question, what happens if it turns out he no longer can?

    The answer may comfort you.

  285. 285.

    Trivia Man

    @M31: I also enjoyed it and didn’t find it tedious as many others did. I even enjoyed learning the how-to of harvesting whales. Very detailed instructions and many new vocabulary words that, sadly, never come up in real conversations.

  287. 287.

    jowriter

    @kindness: It was a great event in times that were very much unsettled. I was finally 21 and voting eligible (all changed in ’71 with the 26th amendment).  Two days after the landing I got a letter from one of my college friends who was at home in Ohio for the summer. She and her boyfriend watched the landing, but she was heartsick as he was leaving for bootcamp (and then Vietnam) the next day.  I still have her letter, and also the LIFE magazine with the US flag on the moon image on the cover. That is my memory.

  288. 288.

    Kay

    I’m going kayaking. Please add Jared Polis to the Balloon Juice enemies list. He too wants Democrats to lose, I guess.

  291. 291.

    CaseyL

    I can certainly understand panic at the thought of the GOP in the WH again (GOP, folks; not just TCFG).

    I can understand the psychological basis behind projecting all that fear onto Biden after a bad debate performance. Not agree with, but understand. Scapegoating is a real thing.

    What I can’t understand is why the panic persists after 3 weeks of Joe being Joe. I mean: verbal gaffes are kind of his brand, and have been his whole life. It’s not like he was ever a brilliant orator!

    What I also can’t understand is how the Dump Joe contingent just hand-waves at the legal and financial consequences of kicking Biden and Harris off the ballot. Do they think we’re making that part up? Do they think the GOP won’t file suit to keep whatever-the-Democratic-ticket-is off state ballots? Do they think SCOTUS won’t allow the GOP to prevail?

    At some point, you can’t let blind panic be your guide.

  292. 292.

    Trivia Man

    @Omnes Omnibus: I was old enough, but I don’t remember watching it on TV. We maybe didn’t watch it because Sunday was the Lord’s Day and anything not directly CHURCH was discouraged. I do remember the toy from Burger King was a plastic Lunar Lander.

  293. 293.

    Bupalos

    @Tony Jay: Dude you are sick. In the “unreasonably talented” sense. Maybe other senses as well, but I definitely appreciate the way you fill the Cracker-sized hole in these threads.

  297. 297.

    Bupalos

    @CaseyL: We’re losing more fundraising money with Biden right now than we will by transferring the 100M to a PAC.

    There is no ballot access issue. I welcome the Republicans filing meritless lawsuits against simple black letter law and the kind of critical backlash that would happen if the SC really straight fucked with the ballot.

  299. 299.

    Suzanne

    @zhena gogolia: In all earnestness, I enjoy your commentary very much, as well. I hope you don’t leave.

    I don’t know why there seems to be a climate emerging of people feeling like they’re being driven away. I don’t like that. The commentariat here are mostly really nice people. Even when someone’s being an asshole — which happens because we’re humans — I still like them.

  302. 302.

    WereBear

    @M31: YES, I keep telling people it is AMAZING.

    Some of the best lines for quoting. And the structure!

    I had a teacher who would teach this era’s books with a reminder that people needed books like this because you huddled with it by the fire in the winter.

    People needed ripping yarns.

  303. 303.

    Bupalos

    @rikyrah: I have no idea what bullet truthers think the upside is here. The “no way a bullet can do that” stuff reminds me of “jet fuel can’t melt steel” stuff, beyond that who cares if he was nicked by a bullet or debris?

  306. 306.

    SatanicPanic

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: There’s no way to know for sure. But I don’t think “vote for the VP” is very compelling, right? It undercuts the message that Biden is the best option. Maybe it’s the best we can do, because that at least acknowledges that people who are concerned about his age aren’t crazy, I don’t know.

  307. 307.

    zhena gogolia

    @Suzanne: You and I don’t always agree, but I am always glad to hear what you have to say.

    I’m afraid there’s some sad news in the thread above this one. Puts everything into perspective.

  308. 308.

    rikyrah

     

    I Stan Black Women and Democracy🦋tiredofit10 (@tiredofit10) posted at 8:30 PM on Sat, Jul 20, 2024:
    You know what threw them off of their little coup plot? They thought Black women would jump at jettisoning Biden if we thought that VP Harris would be the nominee but guess what? We didn’t fall for the okie doke. Never have never will. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
    (https://x.com/tiredofit10/status/1814835355289309675?t=LYiCSBueP7Kt5rHCNVnf2w&s=03)

  309. 309.

    raven

    @WereBear: Some people really struggled with it. I had one guy who spent 10 years preparing for the tests.  I did the life history on 8 GED grads, Why they quit, why they went back  and their experiences in adult literacy education. It was very rewarding.

  311. 311.

    prostratedragon

    @Trivia Man:  I can never get past that long digression on harpoons just as we’re about get the first whale chase. Think it’s because I’ve tried to use it as spare time reading, and something would always come up. But I think that mischievous scamp Melville liked to troll us.

  314. 314.

    E

    @M31: I remember finishing it the first time and having to sit quietly for a minute. I’d read fiction all my life but I had never had that particular thing happen to my mind before. Now that I recall it, it was much like being in shock. (Admittedly, it’s got one hell of an ending.)

  315. 315.

    Hamlet of Melnibone

    Reposting this from an earlier dead thread-

    The key going forward is to come out of this minimizing the intra-party schisms from it.  I think we are better off sticking with Biden, but I understand that there are good faith people who disagree.  If he is replaced on the ticket, I will think that is a mistake, but I will work very hard to elect the Democratic candidate whoever they are, because I understand the stakes.  Either way, I don’t think we are doomed.  This idea that we know how an election four months away is going to go is silly.

    I’m confident that the good faith people on the other side of this argument will do the same for Biden if he stays in the race.

    I understand that some of the sources for these articles are not acting in good faith, but I see no value in trying to separate those people out and make “enemies lists”.  Fighting with each other is not going to be productive.  In a week or two, we are going to know for sure who our candidate will be, and all people who want to continue living in a democracy will need to rally behind them.

    The bad faith people will be pretty easy to see at that point.  If they are people still sniping at Biden then, they are propagating bad faith arguments.  If they are sniping at the new candidate, they are propagating bad faith arguments.

    Until then, I’m going to ignore the circular firing squad and refrain from making judgements about other Democrats.

  316. 316.

    Suzanne

    @zhena gogolia: I don’t always agree with anybody. It’s all good.

    I come here for a lively exchange of ideas and perspectives, as well as the pet pics and music threads.

  321. 321.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    SatanicPanic: Dropping Biden undercuts Harris. What did you know and when did you know it type shit is only the beginning.

    One of our widely acknowledged better Presidents, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, died just a few months into his fourth term. These things happen.  I’d be happy for Harris to take a more prominent role in the election.

    But I’d prefer she did it as Vice President, largely owing to both participants on the voter selected ticket feeling the same way.

  322. 322.

    rikyrah

    If I find video, I will post the link

     

    🤬🤬🤬

     

    1nonblonde (@1nonblonde2) posted at 8:54 AM on Sun, Jul 21, 2024:
    OMG….I have NEVER been so horrified in my life.

    Rep Adam Smith from Wa is LITERALLY YELLING at Symone Sanders . He’s disrespecting her, talking over her…UNREAL.
    The disrespect shown to her explains why the base is so angry. I was appalled

    @HouseDemocrats have become unhinged
    (https://x.com/1nonblonde2/status/1815022487727751487?t=GY8WKZ9_CR0a7KEZpu3E2A&s=03)

  323. 323.

    trollhattan

    Retiring former Democratic senator tells president it’s torch-passin’ time. Fuck you, dude, I hope your yacht sinks.

    July 21, 2024 at 9:20 am EDT By Taegan Goddard

    Sen. Joe Manchin (I-WV) became the fourth senator to call on President Biden to leave the presidential race on Sunday, urging the president to be a “uniter” and “pass the torch” to another Democratic candidate, The Hill reports.

    Said Manchin: “I came to decision with a heavy heart that I think it’s time to pass the torch to new generation.”

  324. 324.

    Kay

    @E:

    Oh, for God’s sake. Read something besides what’s posted here. AOC doesn’t know jack shit about election law.

    Biden is not yet the nominee. There is no “switching” on ballots. There is no legal challenge.

    1. Biden steps back, endorses Harris and releases his delegates
    2. Delegates vote for Harris.
    3. She’s the nominee

    You know who else is telling you not to do this? The Republican Party. That’s why they made the stupid threat- because they know Biden is going to lose. Johnson went on Sunday shows today to try to keep Biden on the ticket.

    Pelosi, Obama, Schumer and Jeffries are telling you to do this. They’re all wrong and Joe and Hunter Biden and Balloon Juice are right?

    Harris raised twice what was expected at a fundaiser yesterday. They love her. She’s outraising Biden, outdrawing him and outworking him. For God’s sake GIVE it to her! She announces at the convention with Bidne introducing and you will see the single best fundraising day in Dem history. They’ll go NUTS.

  325. 325.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @rikyrah: Was it one of the Tweets you shared that introduced me to “donorcrats?”

    I love that. And I already know what my midterm agenda is, should we survive this.

  331. 331.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Kay:  As of today  Mitt Romney is now the replacement democratic nominee  for Biden and Harris.

  335. 335.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @trollhattan: Is Manchin one of the names the rich donors been floating as a replacement candidate.

    Romney/Manchin 2024

    “Together we can mayonnaise this American!”

  339. 339.

    Archon

    @Kay: Did Obama and Pelosi publicly say Biden should go because if they did Biden would have no choice but to drop out.

    Or is this more “sources say” bullshit from an utterly compromised media?

    Edit: I got to say theres a zealotry to your “give it Harris, it will work out great!” That I find fascinating and utterly confounding.

  340. 340.

    moonbat

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Apparently according to NBC she met with donorcrats (thanks, rikyrah!) and said she’s not telling Biden to step down and she’s not interested in the top of the ticket.

    But don’t let the words out of her own mouth disrupt the fantasy land scenarios around here. If they won’t take the president at his word when he says he’s not stepping down, why would they listen to the vice president?

  341. 341.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    I wonder to what extent the Donor Putsch is being driven by Biden’s effective support.of unions.

  342. 342.

    E

    @Kay: If I felt Pelosi and Schumer and Obama and Jeffries were telling Biden to step down I would embrace your plan but it doesn’t seem to me they are saying that. That’s my whole problem with this. I do not have access to good information but people I trust do, and they aren’t saying what you and others keep telling me they are saying.

    ETA I am listening to the Congressional Black Caucus, the “Squad,” the unions. Not Hunter Biden.

  345. 345.

    delphinium

    @trollhattan: Interesting that he didn’t say pass the torch to Kamala Harris as that should be the logical next step. This is why (my opinion only), those thinking everyone will be firmly behind Kamala doesn’t ring true at this point.

  347. 347.

    CaseyL

    Kay:

    AOC doesn’t know jack shit about election law.

    ??!! So you know more than she does?

  348. 348.

    Trivia Man

    @prostratedragon: I assumed he just REALLY liked the subject. It felt like excitedly sharing every detail HE found fascinating. Some have accused him of padding the word count but i am more charitable.

  351. 351.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @moonbat: Apparently according to NBC she met with donorcrats (thanks, rikyrah!) and said she’s not telling Biden to step down and she’s not interested in the top of the ticket.

    Oh, now Harris is suddenly a creditable source on Harris’ thinking.

    Please, only old white male pundits in New York City truly know what Harris is thinking.

  354. 354.

    M31

    @moonbat: yup, the huge number of walmart (as one example) workers on food stamps is a giant taxpayer subsidy to walmart

    fuck that shit and pay your workers and if you go out of business because you can’t afford it, well good

  357. 357.

    moonbat

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: That’s what’s so frustrating about this merry-go-round some folks can’t seem to get off. They’d much rather lend credibility to a malicious whisper campaign than what the people involved, you know, the ones who are actually going to make these decisions are actually saying.

  358. 358.

    Kay

    @E:

    AOC is playing games. If she’s genuinely worried about some plot by donors to get rid of Harris there is a very simple thing she could do – she could say if Biden steps aside it needs to be Harris, like Elizabeth Warren did. She knows this. Instead she did 20 minutes of babbling. Weak. She’s trying to play this both ways, but it isn’t a time to be clever and do a “limited hangout” , it’s time to choose. We can have Harris. We just need to say so.

    The next time a House member says to you “they’re trying to get rid of Harris!” (“them” – the mysterious bad people that all conspiracy theorists rely on) ask them why they won’t just endorse Harris. AOC would be a big boost for Harris. Is she willing to step forward?

  359. 359.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Omnes Omnibus: Well as of today, the Donocrats have the declared Harris Phillips Mitt Romney(r) the Democratic nominee. So, how does Ohio election law work for Romney?

  360. 360.

    Trivia Man

    @rikyrah: That is a great point. Selfish, short term instant gratification for MY identity group is an instant choice for too many people. “One of us” is awfully tempting. I fully believe MVP will be Madame president sooner or later, no sense jumping the gun too soon.

    It was a shrewd and cynical play. If they had successfully carved off that faction, it would cripple overall enthusiasm and wider boots on ground support in GOTV.

  365. 365.

    Kay

    @E:

    I really do have to go but I’m interested in any particular legal or specific concerns you have. I’ll try to answer them later if you post them. Sorry if I went too hard – I get worked up, but it’s because I genuinely have hope in this option :)

  366. 366.

    kindness

    Do I need to remind people here this is the internet?  I mean here on this blog.  The internet brings us many wonderful and horrific things.  You have to have a thick skin if you are going to participate.  There is no ‘safe space’ even here amongst fellow liberals.  Rather than take offense more than you’d like, ignore people or use the pie filter.  Let us not show ourselves to be precious snowflakes.  Get out there and fight for our beliefs.  If someone is raining on your parade too much, pie them.

  367. 367.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Let me be clear. The nominee supported by the voters is Joe Biden. The effort to remove him is a power grab.

    Harris is an acceptable alternative who, nevertheless, supports Biden as President.

    If the Democratic convention advances anyone other than these two, anyone who has no demonstrated voter support, my relationship with Democrats is over.

    It could be my favorite Democrat in the whole wide world. Doesn’t matter.  I’m organizing a Joe Biden write-in campaign and failing to vote for even local favorites like Sen. Warren who is up for reelection, whom I voted for in the primaries four years ago, and who is even hedging her statements on the matter.
    Any individual Democrat who didn’t get full-throatedly behind a legitimate process for selecting our President doesn’t get my vote.
    If Democrats don’t stand up for the voters, democracy is already lost.

  368. 368.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    Perhaps the advice I got in anti-racism training and from the LGBTQ+ youngs I’ve spent time with applies. You can judge for yourself.

    Two versions:

    If it’s not about you, then it’s not about you.

    If it’s not about you, then don’t make it about you.

    There are times when I got reflexively defensive in discussions about racism, but for me, a combination of rigorous self-examination and remembering those sayings can be helpful.

  369. 369.

    Trivia Man

    @WereBear: Ripping yarns with a huge word count  helped pass the hours. Not many “read in an afternoon” kind of books i suspect. Get your money’s worth!

  371. 371.

    moonbat

    @rikyrah: Actually, this has been one of the truly delicious aspects of this whole thing. This Biden constituency is SO much more politically savvy than the opposition and the puditocracy (hard to distinguish them these days) assumed. They know who can win and who can’t in this environment.

    The opposition thought, like it is with the straight white male zombies worshiping Trump, it’s all identity politics and racism. Dangle an A-A woman candidate and the coalition would fracture.

    BEEEEEEEEP! Wrong answer!

  372. 372.

    prostratedragon

    @Trivia Man:  Oh, that he liked it is clear. And after all, it was his life for some years. But his sense of drama was too keen for him not to know the effect.

  373. 373.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @O. Felix Culpa: No, no, no. I was having trouble deciding whether her racism was within tolerable bounds. Or if the issue comes down to Democrats being pissy pants-wetters and that’s why I’m not registered with them.

  374. 374.

    rikyrah

     

    Christopher Bouzy (spoutible.com/cbouzy) (@cbouzy) posted at 10:50 AM on Sun, Jul 21, 2024:

    Initially, they claimed they would respect Biden’s decision. However, they launched an insidious campaign to force him out once Biden confirmed he would not step down. What you are witnessing is entirely orchestrated and not organic. This is not about a single debate.

    (https://x.com/cbouzy/status/1815051721858486297?s=03)

  375. 375.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Harris is an acceptable alternative who, nevertheless, supports Biden as President.

    Indeed Harris is the back up, that’s the Vice President’s job.

    But, our Billionaire betters have weighed in, Harris has a displeasing giggle,(and let’s face it, she classes with the drapes) so she must go too.

    And now we are at (my gwad I can barely write this) Mitt “I kill unions for the Luz” Romney is the designated candidate of the Donorcrats and the rest of us should just shush.

  378. 378.

    M31

    every detail that comes out about project 2025 is worse than the last:

    “As for baby formula regulations generally, labeling regulations and regulations that unnecessarily delay the manufacture and sale of baby formula should be re-evaluated.”

    from here:

    https://bsky.app/profile/project2025.bsky.social/post/3kxrdbwygms2p

    Let’s guess what this could mean! I’m thinking increased profits for some, baby illness and death for others.

  381. 381.

    JoeyJoeJoe

    @Kay: kayaking is always good.  My oldest shirt (that fits anyway) is a kayaking shirt I’ve had since 1993.  Once in a while, I go kayaking on the Potomac River.  It goes by Mount Vernon and some of the national monuments

  382. 382.

    MomSense

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    YES we all want to defeat the fascists.  And I get  that we disagree about the best way to do that.  I hope we can just talk about it because we all care and who else are we going to talk about all this crap with?  No one, well my kids, but no one else in my life wants to get into this like all of us do.

  384. 384.

    WereBear

    @M31: It’s so blatantly designed to intimidate the population by the mere fact they made it exist.

    This time, I got into the forced conversions to Christian Nationalism, the state religion.

  385. 385.

    Archon

    @rikyrah: There is a piece of this story I think I’m still missing because right now this all feels like a massive top down conspiracy to fracture the Democratic party and ensure its defeat and I absolutely hate even letting that thought cross my mind.

    I just hope some information comes out soon where I can say, “oh ok, this all makes sense now”.

  386. 386.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @schrodingers_cat: No, it’s because you never miss an opportunity to make it about white people.

    I can tell you my personal experience with the demographics of this debate outside the internet are way different than you portray them.

    Also funny no matter how many things I say supporting arguments you’ve made or attempts I’ve made in another issue I know is dear to your heart, this is what you glom onto.

  390. 390.

    moonbat

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Sorkin, of all people, should get the malicious irony in floating Romney’s name out there as a possibility. Romney, the candidate Obama beat for the second term. A second term that republicans caused the federal government come to a complete standstill in an effort to deny him. Comity is not the word I see coming out of that ‘compromise candidate.’

  393. 393.

    moonbat

    @M31: Remember Steve “Three Shrits” Bannon’s white board which was basically just a laundry list of Obama accomplishments that Trump was going to undo?

    Project 2025 is that white board all tidied up and printed between book covers. One of Biden’s early wins as president was fixing the baby formula shortage so naturally they must undo that immediately.

  396. 396.

    Trivia Man

    @delphinium: Agree. I would be more inclined to believe it is in good faith if EVERY time they hint Joe should step down they ALSO in the SAME SENTENCE say “And Kamala is ready RIGHT NOW to take over.

  397. 397.

    geg6

    @Bupalos:

    I don’t agree.  Simply stating the facts is how I see it.  And I’m an old white woman.  Woman being the operative word here.  Women who know what’s at stake know what they see.  And it’s almost exclusively white men running this game.

    And now I’m out again.  Sick  of this shit.

  398. 398.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @rikyrah: The fact that Mitt Romney is a miracle of science able to walk upright without a spine eludes Aaron because love is blind.

    But those shoulders! ROFL

  401. 401.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @rikyrah: “…democrats like me [Manchin].”  Has he forgotten he’s no longer a Democrat?  Probably cognitively impaired. /s

  402. 402.

    Bupalos

    Guys just to reiterate the “do something real” vibe, you suddenly don’t feel like fighting with anyone about anything when you get another preregister out of another incoming student that does the “wait…yes…I AM 18!! I can register!”
    As far as a productive demographic, you will be shocked how many smart kids just turned 18 and didn’t know or forgot they are now real people who can vote.
    We’re leaving money on the table on theses campuses yo.

    incoming orientation student are more productive for me by a lot than general campus registration drives.

  404. 404.

    Splitting Image

    @rikyrah:

    Joe Manchin is on Face the Nation calling for an open primary, bypassing VP Harris, “this isn’t about race or gender… [that’s how] you lose democrats like me.”

    “Democrats like me”?

    This would be the same Joe Manchin who changed his party ID to Independent awhile back?

  406. 406.

    Kay

    I almost forgoit! There’s a united for harris group- she’d be nominated by the delegates at the convention, if anyone is interested.

  408. 408.

    Bill Arnold

    @chemiclord:
    Sorkin:

    So here’s my pitch to the writers’ room: The Democratic Party should pick a Republican.
    At their convention next month, the Democrats should nominate Mitt Romney.
    …
    The writing staff would tell me I was about to jump the shark, that this is a “West Wing” fantasy that would never, ever happen. But as Bradley Whitford used to say, “Isn’t the biggest fantasy on television a mafia boss in therapy?” The Democrats need to break the glass and this is a break-glass plan, but it’s more than that. It’s a grand gesture. A sacrifice. It would put a lump in our throats.

    MindBrain worms. The eggs were implanted in Sorkin years ago.

  410. 410.

    M31

    @rikyrah: and to think I’d almost forgotten that Joe Manchin existed, damn it

    one of the things I hate about this timeline is the relentless parade of awful people that I have to know about

  411. 411.

    E

    @Archon: I don’t know what you are missing but the part I was missing is that this is an alliance between the leftiest and most performative of the pro-Palestine activists (whom I have always supported!!!) and the donorcrat class. Neither want Harris but both would take her over Biden. The first group just wants Biden gone, they absolutely hate him and really do believe him to be pro-genocide. They hate him enough to not care if he loses.

  413. 413.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    Democrats need to beat the Donorcrats into the dirt then start running for Congress in 2026 on real campaign finance reform with teeth.

  415. 415.

    Emily B.

    @UncleEbeneezer: Thanks for posting the Black Voters Matter statement. I’ve supported BVM in past election cycles, and this was just the nudge I needed to contribute to BVM again.

  420. 420.

    schrodingers_cat

    @rikyrah: That was a pretext. The fanciful lightning primary idea was first floated by Ezra (Broder) Klein in February IIRC.

    Husband Kitteh listens to his podcast that’s how I first came to know about this batshit insanity.

  423. 423.

    CaseyL

    Getting back to the post’s official topic: “To boldly go…”

    I remember the moon landing, as our family was vacationing in Atlantic City, and everyone was grouped around the TV in the living room watching.

    As for “…to boldly go…,” I remember the intense grief I felt when the moon missions stopped, and the shuttle program was scrapped, and there seemed no remaining momentum or impetus for putting humans in space.

    Because “to boldly go” doesn’t mean “send robots.”

  424. 424.

    Cacti

    Slept in this morning. Any new enemies of the people today? Any word from the clap louder caucus of when this is all going to blow over?

  425. 425.

    Nukular Biskits

    As an occasional commenter here, I know that what I have to say will have little to no import and probably change no minds.

    But I will continue to support the Joe Biden/Kamala Harris ticket until Joe Biden himself decides to step aside.  Airing our “dirty laundry”, so to speak, isn’t helping nor are the repeated recriminations, name-calling, etc.

    And one more thing (actually, 2):

    #1 – There are a number of opportunistic, ambitious Democrats who see this as a means of advancing their political careers.

    #2 – There is a lot of wishful thinking going into the “If Biden would just step aside, we’ll find the perfect candidate!”

  426. 426.

    Nelle

    @M31: And they don’t seem to have the decency to go away.  They keep popping up, over and over.  Who thought we were done with the orange menace in 2020?  Three elections and we have to see him over and over.  Well, I’m not actually looking.

  429. 429.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    I appreciate a lot of your insights, and was hoping I could take your comment at face value. It’s clear you disagree with sc on much,  which is fine.  We don’t have to agree with each other or even like each other.  However,  my observation (which is mine) is that you have displayed at least as much a chip on your shoulder about her as you claim she has about racism. It’s starting to appear obsessive. Humans have a way of becoming that which we set out to combat

    ETA: I also think it’s problematic when we deny other people’s lived experience. Maybe ask folks why they think what they do? I’m directing that to myself as much as anyone else.

  430. 430.

    Cacti

    @Nukular Biskits: You missed the biggest bit of wishful thinking:

    1. Casual voters are going to get over Biden looking like a confused, feeble old man on the debate stage.

  431. 431.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Nukular Biskits:
    #3.  We are under constant attack.  I don’t mean anyone here on BJ [well, perhaps David Bell].  I mean Russia and the Republicans

  433. 433.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @O. Felix Culpa: Hmm…I’ve been posting here for 17 years.  Have I ever leveled this accusation against anyone else? This is very particular. And it goes past white people.

    For example, how she seems to believe that black activist Twitter speaks for all black people. (ETA) A notion I can’t come close to reconciling with my experiences in daily life off the internet.

  435. 435.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Archon: He’s our troll eminence grise. He could be in the world record book for trolling.

  437. 437.

    Jinchi

    @Nukular Biskits: ​
     I know that what I have to say will have little to no import and probably change no minds.

    Untrue. The comments on Balloon Juice travel across the internet and become established wisdom that will be studied by future historians. Ezra Klein will be claiming to be the original author of your post at Biden’s re-inauguration party.

  440. 440.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @O. Felix Culpa: You may have seen me here and elsewhere being complimentary of rikyrah’s tweet shares.

    The difference here, rikyrah is not monomaniacal.

  442. 442.

    Cacti

    @Archon: If you find yourself feeling sensitive about my obviously tongue in cheek post, maybe the problem isn’t me.

    The comment section since the debate debacle of 2024 has taken the train to crazytown, and 100% of the crazy is coming from one side of the divide.

  443. 443.

    Archon

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Say what you want about Kay, and I think its borderline delusional for her to insist putting Harris at the top of the ticket will solve all our problems but at least theres a level of hope and optimism to that idea that if it came to it I could get behind.

    I have nothing but contempt for those that come on these threads just to tell us how dumb and brainwashed we are for still supporting Biden.

  444. 444.

    SFAW

    @rikyrah: ​
     

    bypassing VP Harris, “this isn’t about race or gender …”

    Translation: It’s completely about race and sex (not “gender,” you numbskull.]

  445. 445.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Archon: Continued Biden supporters have a giant media apparatus in full gear against them, classic brainwashing conditions.

  446. 446.

    wjca

    @schrodingers_cat: I think his hot shot John Roberts clerking Indian-American wife is behind the transformation.

    So, Vance is a true Manchurian candidate?  Still the Never Trumper he was.  Just inserted into the Trump campaign ticket to take power back to something far from the cult when Trump suddenly, magically, kicks off — probably seconds after the polls close.

    Hey, it makes a great conspiracy theory.  Perfect for a party which is into such things.

  447. 447.

    Cacti

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Wasn’t it you the other day expressing solidarity with the good character and reputation of the Trump rally shooter after I said he looked like a tweaker?

    You’re the conductor of the Crazytown Express.

  449. 449.

    satby

    @Archon: right now this all feels like a massive top down conspiracy to fracture the Democratic party and ensure its defeat

    It feels like that because it is. When they ignore the expressed statements of the replacements for Biden they offer (all of whom support Joe) they aren’t thinking of the long term health of the party. When they propose ignoring the primary voters, they guarantee a damaged or destroyed Democratic party going forward. Which serves the opposition very well, both here and abroad.

  450. 450.

    Denali5

    @Dorothy Windsor,

    Happy Birthday!

    To everybody else, hope we can stay calm and stay here. It is a very difficult and emotional time. It is complicated,  and we are up against frightening odds. I really hope we can stay together despite our differences.

  451. 451.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Cacti: No. I simply didn’t want you disparaging drug addicts as a group. But nice try.

  452. 452.

    schrodingers_cat

    @O. Felix Culpa: Since Trump became President I had my eyes opened to how much there is a subtext of race to everything in the US (In India it is caste). It took me about 20 years in the US for me to realize that. Once it is seen, it cannot be unseen.

    I do write about that in my comments. Its seems that has struck a nerve.

    As a person who had structural privilege in my previous life, I can say that you don’t even realize it until you don’t have it.

  453. 453.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Jinchi:

    Untrue. The comments on Balloon Juice travel across the internet and become established wisdom that will be studied by future historians. Ezra Klein will be claiming to be the original author of your post at Biden’s re-inauguration party.

    LOL!

  454. 454.

    Tony Jay

    @Bill Arnold:

      The Democrats need to break the glass and this is a break-glass plan, but it’s more than that. It’s a grand gesture. A sacrifice. It would put a lump in our throats.

    Jeebus and Judas sitting in a tree, if I wrote anything that way out there and fanciful I’d feel morally obliged to put it in a +++Jackal News+++ frame and throw in a couple of asides about “swallowing the bitter medicine” and “not showing our teeth” to make the joke obvious.

    Fucksake, Sorkin. Too burnt out on coke to realise Ainsley Hayes would now have a pundit seat on CNN and millions in the bank from her tell-all exposé about ‘the sins at the heart of the Bartlett White House’?

    Alan Alda was an actor, you muppet.

  455. 455.

    Jinchi

    @SiubhanDuinne: ​
     FTFNYT should never have considered running this flight of impossible fancy as a serious opinion piece.

    One of the major reasons I can’t believe anything the media says on Biden is that in one breath they will declare him incapable of leading the party and a legitimate danger to democracy (because Trump would become president),

    And then they will just as seriously publish arguments that we replace him via a “Blitz” primary, or with a 77 year old conservative Republican who voted overwhelmingly for Trump’s agenda.

    This is just a game for them.

  457. 457.

    rikyrah

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    The 1400 Black women involved in politics on some sort of level who published the letter in full support of Biden/ Harris

     

    Black folks involved with boots on the ground groups

     

    The reporting of Roland Martin and others on what pressure has been applied towards the Congressional Black Caucus…

     

    And my experience of being a Black woman in America longer than three days…

     

    But, okay😒😒

  458. 458.

    Cacti

    @Nukular Biskits: In which case, if the post-debate polls are our data points of how it was received, Biden has mortally wounded his campaign and has given Trump the highest EV ceiling of any R candidate in the last 36 years.

  459. 459.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    I wrote in another context about the tendency in some people to see politics as entertainment rather than something with consequences.  In our society successful entertainers are rewarded with money and prestige.  It can go to their heads.

  460. 460.

    CaseyL

    Joe Manchin, who left the Democratic Party after being a thorn in its side for 20 years, now advises the Democratic President on what he should do.

    And this is after he was recruited by No Labels to run as a third-Party candidate – which, to his credit, he definitively turned down.

    I particularly love that bit about “an unmatched legacy,” with the unspoken followup of “…which we will waste no time undoing.”

  461. 461.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @rikyrah: I agree wholly with the CBC and those 1400 black women and am incredibly thankful for their good judgment.

    This isn’t about them or you. This is about SC.

  463. 463.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Cacti:
    I’m not going to rehash the arguments that have been going back and forth here for weeks now.

    In politics, unfortunately, presentation is often reality, regardless.  Got it.  And there are a lot of my fellow Americans who are, quite frankly, willingly fucking stupid if they want to vote based on that presentation rather than the actual facts and results.  Such is their protected right.

    Again, I will not be calling for Biden to step aside as I see absolutely no need for him to do so.  If/when HE makes that decision, I’ll support that.

  464. 464.

    Trivia Man

    @M31: Clearly it was a mistake to choose to be a baby. You should have chosen Business Owner as your class instead.

  467. 467.

    KatKapCC

    @Kay: And it wouldn’t be “going rogue” for her to accept the nomination out from under her boss, when he says he wants to stay in the race?

    I don’t think it’s a good look for anyone to act like they know better than Harris what’s good for Harris. She’s a grown woman and deserves to be listened to, not to have someone else’s desires take precedence over her own, or for anyone to claim they know better what’s going on in her mind than she does.

    This feels similar to the way a lot of liberals keep trying to tout Michelle Obama as a replacement or just a candidate. She has said probably a thousand times that she has no interest in being in politics, and yet a lot of people refuse to listen to her. It’s not OK. And the seeming reasons behind these pushes on Black women make me very uncomfortable with some of my fellow liberals.

  468. 468.

    Trivia Man

    @Elizabelle: As an elderly man he gave a solid punch in the snoot to a notorious MOON LANDING WAS FAKED troll who confronted him face to face. Very satisfying video.

  469. 469.

    Captain C

    @Phylllis: I imagine Michael Collins was also on some level happy to have some alone time in that week-long mission in a capsule.

  470. 470.

    Bill Arnold

    @E:

    They hate him enough to not care if he loses.

    If they manage to elect felonious narcissistic authoritarian racist Trump, they will miss the Democrats.

  471. 471.

    M31

    @Trivia Man: hahahaha was just imagining Baldur’s Gate setup with “baby” as one of the options

    hmmm, Half-Elven Paladin Baby with double crawling power and Scroll of Drooling

  473. 473.

    Trivia Man

    @CaseyL: Despite my intense hatred of Reagan, arguably the starting point for the death of America, I have one kind thing to say about him. After the Challenger disaster he loudly resisted any attempts to end exploration all together. It would have been easy to just stop everything but IIRC it was a hopeful and inspirational speech. Probably just a knee jerk refex that if we stopped it means THE SOVIETS WIN and he couldn’t have that.

  474. 474.

    moonbat

    Just an observation/vent and then I’m out for a day of relaxing house work.

    I grew up around my paternal grandfather. Spent summers with him on his farm/ranch for several years running in my formative years. He was one of the toughest, smartest (I don’t mean formally educated. He had to leave school after the eighth grade.), wisest men I have ever known. As a widower he took care of himself from his late 60s well into his 90s and died just shy of 100 years of age and VERY shortly after his children decided to put him in a rest home.

    My point is, we have an obsession with youth, beauty, and optics in this culture that is unhealthy and we as a society have made it too easy and acceptable to discard older people when they no longer meet that ideal. The disrespect being shown this president, the most accomplished in my lifetime, for his age and a disability he has fought hard to overcome his entire life is frankly disgusting. It assumes, without evidence, that he is incapable of making decisions based on his own judgment of his abilities and that he would recklessly put this nation in danger of authoritarian rule because of it. I simply do not believe he has that kind of ego or loves this country so little.

    I DO firmly believe Joe Biden has been such an effective president BECAUSE he has been around so long and STILL knows how to get things done within the limited powers granted to him by the Constitution. I want that experience in the White House to get us through the next few years which promises to be pretty rough even if/when the Democrats win in November. I am deeply grateful that he is willing to make that sacrifice for us given that he could be enjoying an easy retirement right now and not have to listen to this bullshit day in and day out.

    He and his vice president Kamala Harris are not chess pieces without agency to be moved on or off the ticket by rich donors, political pundits, nervous folk, or ambitious pols who what to ride the media feeding frenzy into some kind of notoriety. They were chosen by the majority of Democratic voters to be our ticket in November. The outpouring of support from rank and file Dem voters since this stupid non-troversy began shows that the party is still behind them. Until Joe and Kamala say differently, that’s our ticket.

  475. 475.

    Bupalos

    @rikyrah:

    @rikyrah:

    @rikyrah: it’s reductive and a hyper identity politics that erodes solidarity. The liberal white men in the coalition are not in it to elevate the interests of black people over their own any more than the black liberal women are in the coalition to elevate the interest of white people over their own. We’re all in the coalition because we  believe our interests overlap in a place called the Democratic Party. It is no part of solidarity to do this “shut up and listen to the universal opinion of the important ones” stuff. I understand how you feel like that’s a version of what is happening to you. You might think about how the way you’re phrasing your opinion- focussing on assigning (and wildly exaggerating) generalized identities to positions is not a solidarity move.

    Opinion on how we best win this election is not homogenous among white or black or Hispanic liberals, or men, or women, or LGBTQ, or anything else. This is a rip-roaring debate not because there are great arguments and obvious interest alignments on one side, and terrible arguments and interests on the other.. It’s because we’re in a very precarious place and there are great arguments and interest to all the courses of action the party has in front of it here.
    It isn’t a conspiracy, and the party moving to another candidate than Biden because he decides to end his candidacy isn’t the end of black voting power.

  479. 479.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Bupalos: I am not with this.  I am working off memories of SC disparaging BLM protestors and offering unfair criticism of their demands as much as anything else.

    There’s a line. Rikyrah is firmly on the right side of it.

  480. 480.

    SatanicPanic

    @satby: that’s unfair. We really don’t know Harris’ actual thinking on the matter because Harris only has one thing she can say “I support the president “. Anything else would be very damaging to any career prospects she has. And maybe that’s what she actually believes. But we can’t know for certain unless we’re in her head.

  482. 482.

    Trivia Man

    @schrodingers_cat: “To someone accustomed to privilege, equality feels a lot like oppression”.

    I spent several yeas doing DEI work for a very large corporation and it was a shock to hear so much “I never got any special privileges!” from people who clearly did. I thought of myself as undercover because people would openly say things to me that I know they wouldn’t dream of saying in front of any POC or LGBTQ or some other “not the default setting” person. I was chastised for intentionally aligning myself with “them” because “it might hurt your career.” Really? Attending a public meeting with gay people would rub off on me for the worse? I was proud to stand with them as an ally.

  484. 484.

    wjca

    @Trivia Man:  “Peak wingnut is a lie”

    We get local (in time) peaks.  We have before.  It takes a while, usually, but we get past it.  We will again.

    The only question is, Is this the local peak?   Judging by the decreased enthusiasm among previous (possibly even current) Trump voters, it may well be.  We’ll find out in a few months.

  485. 485.

    Bill Arnold

    @Cacti:
    Any thoughts about when you’ll stop attacking Democrats and spend most of your energy attacking Trump/Vance and the rest of the GOP candidates?

  486. 486.

    Trivia Man

    And Armor Class of 1? Every category a stat dump of 1 except Charisma at +15 because who hates a baby? Besides our MOTU ruling class.

  489. 489.

    M31

    @Trivia Man: lol Strength of zero, but somehow by being cute causes the defenses of everyone around to drop to nothing since they’re all going ‘oh look at the baby’

    sounds like having a baby in your party would be pretty great

    lolol

  490. 490.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    I hope.youre all fucking happy. Good with Trump’s second term.

  491. 491.

    wjca

    @moonbat: the malicious irony in floating Romney’s name out there as a possibility.

    I notice that I don’t see Romney acting like this is even vaguely plausible.  Just to give a hint at how ridiculous it is.

  492. 492.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @schrodingers_cat: As a person who had structural privilege in my previous life, I can say that you don’t even realize it until you don’t have it.

    I was shocked to learn at work that one minority was told by another minority to shush in a mock disagreement with me because I am white. Therefor I was right, for reasons.

  494. 494.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @wjca: I notice that I don’t see Romney acting like this is even vaguely plausible.  Just to give a hint at how ridiculous it is.

    Oh, and suddenly Romney is an authority on what Romney is thinking now? We need pundits in New York City to tell us what Romney in Utah is thinking.

  495. 495.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @rikyrah: Exactly!  Within 24 hours of the debate it became pretty clear that Black Women/Voters (of course, #NotAll, but MOST) were not interested in replacing Biden and found the whole notion, frankly, a bit offensive.  What I find really gross is that so many white commenters here are not only standing on the wrong side of this, but also are insisting that nobody can dare judge or be mad at them for doing so.

  501. 501.

    kalakal

    This is terrible

    I really hate the msm and all the greedy, rich bastards behind this.

    Well, we don’t give up. we keep going, we vote dem, we beat Trump and his fellow fascists

  504. 504.

    Elizabelle

    Stop it.  Trump hasn’t won, and he is not going to.

    But: sick of this, and I am going to pie any gloaters.

  505. 505.

    Bill Arnold

    All “Biden must go” people now OWN any Trump win. For everyone, and especially those people, I strongly suggest treating this election as if your life depends on it.
    The rules of opposition change when authoritarians/borderline fascists are in power.

  509. 509.

    Archon

    @schrodingers_cat: The stakes are so profound I honestly don’t care as long as we win. Shit, I’ll send the Kay and the Cacti of the world a personal apology letter.

    If they push out an incumbent President against the will of Primary voters only for us to lose?
    The Democratic Party is finished.

  510. 510.

    Litano

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    Prior to his decision to drop out, Joe Biden was polling worse with African Americans than any Democratic nominee in modern history. Post-debate polls showed that around 2/3rds of Democrats wanted him to drop out, including about 50% of black voters.

    The fact of the matter is that Biden and Trump were both historically unpopular candidates with rock-bottom approval ratings and huge liabilities from the public’s concerns around age and mental acuity. Running a candidate as unpopular as Biden against Trump would have been political malpractice, especially given the fact that Biden was uniquely unable to hit Trump on the two aforementioned liabilities. It would have been good if Biden was selfless enough to see the writing on the wall and step down a year and a half ago so we could have had an actual primary, but here I think late is still better than never.

  511. 511.

    Darkrose

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I’ve said all along that this is the case. The Silicon Valley money is terrified of their workers unionizing. The Hollywood money hates that the actors and writers made real gains in the strikes last year. Adam Schiff was backed by cryptobros donating to fight Katie Porter, who supports regulating their fraudulent industry.

  513. 513.

    brantl

    @Eyeroller:

    He’s already stopped wearing the “bandage” and his ear is perfectly fine. As I’ve said repeatedly, if he was grazed by a bullet the skin would be shredded, and if he was hit by a bullet he wouldn’t have an ear and maybe not part of his head.

    That depends on how deep the graze was, the angle of occlusion and the cross-sectional area of impact. If this was minimal, then you are full of shit. The graze was obviously minimal, as shown by the minimal blood splatter.

  514. 514.

    brantl

    @Bupalos:

     A lot of people including the vast majority of dem pols

    Still NO EVIDENCE FOR THIS. No polling, anywhere. You want to be taken for a person of decent honesty, QUIT MAKING SHIT UP. Or show some actual proof.

  515. 515.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @MomSense:

    It seems that you did not read any of my comments with understanding, or maybe you were reading through a lens that I do not understand. I did not intend to insult you, but rather explain my POV–which I have been assured is encouraged on this blog lest we develop a hivemind–nor did I intend to apologize afterwards.

    I did seek to understand what triggered your irate, invective-using, name-calling response to me, when I had never exhibited such behavior towards you. I tried to clarify a sentence in my original comment that might have unintentionally given offense, though no offense was intended. I even had other people review what I wrote, to get feedback on where I might have been hurtful. They thought what I wrote was fine, FWIW.

    I’ve never been attacked with such vitriol on BJ before. I’m sorry about your response, as I have always liked and respected you and enjoyed your stories about life in Maine and your children’s music. Even now, I wish you well, although I cannot engage with you again, for my own well-being.

Comments are closed.