Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls 2 years from now.

Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

With all due respect and assumptions of good faith, please fuck off into the sun.

The snowflake in chief appeared visibly frustrated when questioned by a reporter about egg prices.

“When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they’re gonna use it.”

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

I like political parties that aren’t owned by foreign adversaries.

They want us to be overwhelmed and exhausted. Focus. Resist. Oppose.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

She burned that motherfucker down, and I am so here for it. Thank you, Caroline Kennedy.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

I really should read my own blog.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

We can show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

“Perhaps I should have considered other options.” (head-desk)

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

Trumpflation is an intolerable hardship for every American, and it’s Trump’s fault.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Late Night Open Thread: All the Worst People Are Weeping Tonight

Late Night Open Thread: All the Worst People Are Weeping Tonight

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Except maybe the Trump stenographers of our Very Serious / Savvy media…


Reader Interactions

359Comments

  1. 1.

    guachi

    I think this “Truth” from Trump that I quoted in the previous thread is far more relevant to this thread:

    It’s not over! Tomorrow Crooked Joe Biden’s going to wake up and forget he dropped out of the race!

    Trump also demanded to be reimbursed for fraud because Biden dropped out.

    Oh, and for those who wonder about endorsements the last I saw 147 Representatives and 32 Senators had endorsed Harris.

    https://analysis.votehub.us/pages/kamala-harris-endorsement-tracker

  2. 2.

    J. Arthur Crank

    Was Brian Stelter dropped on his head when he was an infant?  Jesus Hussain Christ, but that tweet was especially stupid.

    Also too, Paster Mike needs a knee to the groin.

  3. 3.

    NotMax

    Waiting for the Fox/RWNJ shoe to drop.

    “Harris is a woman of nearly 60. That’s like 90 in man years,”
    //

  5. 5.

    Captain C

    Fuck Speaker Johnson.  I hope his son catches him watching the most shameful (legal) porn imaginable, and (son) subsequently gets caught sending it to all his friends.

  6. 6.

    Villago Delenda Est

    If you look up “media airhead dumbass” in the dictionary, there’s a photo of Brian Stelter.

  10. 10.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Stephen Miller is upset.  Not cool, dude.  Reinhard Heydrich was able to keep his cool when ministers were arguing over minutia at the Wannsee Conference.

  12. 12.

    J. Arthur Crank

    @Villago Delenda Est:

     

    If you look up “media airhead dumbass” in the dictionary, there’s a photo of Brian Stelter.

    Even though stupidity has no bound, there are a finite number of people on the planet. Given that, there has to be a stupidest motherfucker out there. There are a lot of stupid motherfuckers who are glad of the existence of Brian Stelter since they can now say to themselves “well at least I am not the stupidest motherfucker on the planet.”

  13. 13.

    KatKapCC

    @clay: Right?? Earlier this year, I was chatting with my neighbor and I was kind of running through her resume, and he asked if I knew how old she was. When I told him, he was like “Damn, I thought she was coming up on 50, not 60!”

    If Trump actually agrees to debate her, it’ll be a really interesting site to see them side by side on the screen.

  21. 21.

    SpaceUnit

    Currently drinking in hopes of becoming too drunk to stab someone.  All in on Harris.

     

    Fix bayonets.

  25. 25.

    SpaceUnit

    @NotMax

    God help me but I’m old enough to get that.

     

    And I’ll vote so hard for Kamala I just might poke my finger through the touch-screen.

  26. 26.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @NotMax: I would drag my hung over south end to polling station after an all night bender, and puke all over an GOP election monitor  for Kamala!

  28. 28.

    rodwell

    I am so sad that the news media, the Republicans and the billionaires will not get an open convention and the ensuing chaos.  It looks like the party rallied around VP Harris rather quickly.  My representative (Mikie Sherrill, NJ -11) has endorsed her.  I will be calling tomorrow to thank her.  Also, as one of the 14 million people who voted in the primary.  I voted for the ticket of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, so mine vote is not being disregarded.  Also, I cannot wait for the big sad Joe Manchin is going to get when he is not going to be the nominee.  Although he will manage to get a lot of TV time.

  29. 29.

    tam1MI

    @Ksmiami: First we get Kamala elected. Second, we reduce The NY Times to ash.

    Then we go after the megadonors and their puppets in the party who spat on democracy.

  31. 31.

    Jinchi

    How Kamala Harris is preparing to contrast her record as a prosecutor with Donald Trump’s as a felon

    I have to say I like that headline from CNN.

  32. 32.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    Act Blue has raised $69 million in the last 11 hours since Biden’s announcement.

  35. 35.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Well now that’s brave!

    Stelter is beyond parody with his idiotic tweets. But I’ll be watching with interest what the Cable airheads will be saying. My pick for sheer pursed lip idiocy would be Dana Basch.

    My pick for hall monitor tut tutting would be Jake Tapper.

    As for the FTFNYT, I haven’t cancelled my sub. I’ll enjoy trolling them tomorrow.

    Fuck them all.

    Just win baby.

  38. 38.

    guachi

    @NotoriousJRT: Why would you be tired by knowledge Democrats are raising boatloads of cash? That’s a good thing! It shows people are energized, excited, and hopeful. All of this money is making Republicans cry, just like the topic of this thread

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:  is also excited about all that money. It’s good thing to be excited about.

  39. 39.

    wjca

    A California Democrat, child of elites who nonetheless played victimization and DEI politics to the max, utterly cynical, dishonest, and incompetent.

    “Child of elites”?  Really?

    I’m not an expert in such matters, I suppose.  But an economist and a breast cancer researcher are “elites” now?  Somehow, I suspect even the nouveau riche, let alone old money, would dispute that.

  40. 40.

    mrmoshpotato

    @guachi: Glad to see my district’s Congresswoman has endorsed Harris.  No word from Illinois’ US Senators yet.

  42. 42.

    Cacti

    All in for Harris.

    And for the VP choice, someone born 1965 or later pls. If we’re rejuvenating the party at the top, let’s not be half assed about it.

  43. 43.

    Ishiyama

    Looking at the Harris congressional endorsement tracker, all the members of the Squad except Rashida Tlaib are with her. In both the Senate and the House, the prominent leadership is saying “no comment”, presumably for reasons.

  44. 44.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Ksmiami: If you go after the billionaire parasites who finance the GQp and the entire reactionary “think tank” infrastructure, you’ll accomplish a lot more.

  46. 46.

    Tony Jay

    Reading the papers so you don’t have to…

           +++ Jackal News – Jackal News +++

    A NEW AGE OF KAMALOT? – By Clone Broder

    Now that her boosters have all but secured her place at the head of the ticket, Kamala Harris needs to fill a white, seasoned, politically connected gap in her résumé for President. Is JFK III the missing piece of the puzzle?

    WHAT’S A BROTHER GOTS TA DO FOR SOME RESPECT? – By Prof Cornhole West

    First the son of a Kenyan, now the daughter of Caribbean immigrants, is it time we asked – Do Democrats have a problem with African-Americans? Or is it just African-American men?

    +++ Jackal News – Jackal News +++

  47. 47.

    hotshoe

    @Captain C:

    Fuck Speaker Johnson. I hope his son catches him watching the most shameful (legal) porn imaginable

     
    Huh. I don’t have a reason to hope it would be legal porn — and we have reason to suspect from all the other goddamn rapist-loving evangelicals that Johnson’s preferred sex life is absolutely not legal, if he’s anything like his fellow travelers.
    The only thing I would hope for is that his daughters are safe.

  48. 48.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Ksmiami:

    ☺️☺️☺️

    Oh, and agree with your point re burning the Republican Party to the ground.

    They are a national disgrace and a global danger.
    I am confident the Dems will win the Presidency (no matter who Harris chooses as VP), will win HoRs and hold the Senate.

    I’m going to put money on each bet.

    I’m confident I’m heading for another delicious expensive dinner when I collect.

  53. 53.

    Ksmiami

    @dc: and then rams that sword into Pinch Sulzberger- fucking fascist-enabling swill producer. Yes, I’m out for blood. They pushed out a decent human and need to pay.

  55. 55.

    TooManyJens

    “They filled out CIRCLES!” Stephen Miller cries, his voice climbing higher and higher. “There is no shape more sacred in our electoral process than the circle! To betray the circle is to betray America itself!”

    The vein in his forehead throbs. Onlookers watch, horrified, as it twists itself into the shape of a circle. Then another. They intersect. A Venn diagram—Kamala Harris’ favorite. A chill permeates the air as they realize the circle has now become a weapon.

    “The Republican Party spent tens of million of dollars running against Joe Bide….”  The vein explodes. Instead of blood, tiny shredded printouts of VDARE articles pour out and disappear in little puffs of dry white dust.

    “Bury me…” he gasps as his life drains away, “Bury me under the border wall.”

  59. 59.

    Annamal

    Completely different political systems but I remember 2017 inour country where Andrew Little stepped aside 7 weeks before the election in favour of Jacinda Ardern.

    It was an amazing gesture and it gave us one of the best crisis prime ministers in my lifetime (given that we would have had the crises no matter what, I’m grateful we had her in charge).

  60. 60.

    opiejeanne

    @mrmoshpotato: Both of my senators have endorsed Harris, but not my Congressional Representative. I need to contact Rep. Suzan DelBene tomorrow about this “no comment” oversight.

  62. 62.

    Quadrillipede

    @tam1MI: Then we go after the megadonors and their puppets in the party who spat on democracy.

     

    The New York Times editorial board wanted Joe out of the race. I think over the next several months, it is time to make them fully understand that they shouldn’t have interfered in this. If you haven’t already cancelled your subscription, now might be the time, as I have a few potential ideas for making that subscription less valuable…

  63. 63.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Annamal:

    Yeah. God I’m glad we have a Parliamentary system and strong Parties. We’ve had 11 ALP leaders since 1980.

    There were three I thought were shit. I was right about 2, and wrong about the other.

    Who cares what I think?
    Seriously.

    Parties are there to serve the interests of their members and supporters. I am both, and every time the Leader has changed, I have moved on the support the next one. Because the collective is more important than what one member thinks.

    Biden was a great President, but enough Party supporters and experienced electeds like Pelosi thought he couldn’t win.

    This is the result. It sucks, but it has to be sucked up.

  64. 64.

    karen marie

    As a person who voted for Biden-Harris in 2020 and a primary voter who voted Biden-Harris in 2024, I say to the Republicans, CRY HARDER, MOTHERFUCKERS.

  65. 65.

    Chet Murthy

    @karen marie: Senator (at the time) Harris was my #2 pick in 2020 (after Senator Warren).  I was happy to be wrong back then, but will be happy to vote for President Harris this time.

  67. 67.

    Quadrillipede

    @wjca: “Child of elites”?  Really?

    I’m not an expert in such matters, I suppose.  But an economist and a breast cancer researcher are “elites” now?  Somehow, I suspect even the nouveau riche, let alone old money, would dispute that.

    “When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

    ’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

    ’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”
    ― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glas

    [ETA: Humpty is being a bit fascist-adjacent, it seems…]

  68. 68.

    karen marie

    @Chet Murthy: Me too, though I had very mixed feelings about losing Warren in the senate. I think she’s terrific.

    The more Republicans lose their shit over Harris, the better her chances of winning. I am enjoying their freakout.

  69. 69.

    Tony Jay

      NYT EDITORIAL COMMENT

    Joe Biden hid from legitimate scrutiny and paid the price when his frailties were exposed, now Kamala Harris has a brief window where she can learn from his mistakes by opening herself to a proper vetting by the nation’s most trusted political minds.

    We at the NYT would like to offer Ms Harris the opportunity to start this journey of discovery with a one-on-one interview with respected White House expert Maggie Halberman, followed by a series of deep-cutting investigate round-tables with a wide range of adversarial voices where we will once and for all answer the question –

    “Who Is Kamala Harris – And Why?”

  70. 70.

    Chet Murthy

    @karen marie: I’m born in Bangalore: VP Harris …. well, I feel represented, and representation matters.  But I still remember the reason that Rep. Jim Clyburn and SC voters chose Biden: they knew that he would be acceptable to white American voters, and he was a good enough leader for them too.  But that first part mattered, I think.  A lot.  And so, this time I worry that in VP Harris we have a great leader, who will not be acceptable to White America.

    Truthfully, it doesn’t matter.  It was either Granpa Joe, or VP Harris.  There were no other choices to be had, b/c anything else would be chaos and defeat-in-detail.  So I guess, if we cannot have Granpa Joe, then VP Harris it is.  And again, I feel represented, so it’s fine.  But I do wonder about whether she’ll be acceptable to white-bread America.

  71. 71.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Tony Jay:

    Perfect.

    And it would be even better if she refused any one on one interviews with that elite, beltway opinion rag. I read it to keep with elite US opinion. I need to given the stakes here in Oz.
    But really, I couldn’t care less if partisan Dems burned it to the ground.

  72. 72.

    hotshoe

    @opiejeanne: Both of my senators have endorsed Harris, but not my Congressional Representative. I need to contact Rep …

     

    In my blue district in blue state my godforsaken US Rep has been one of the “needs to be a process” before endorsing Harris — in other words, some variant of the sicko Silicon Valley bois “mini-primary” or “blitz convention” or whatever hell they have in mind.

    I’m gonna call first thing in the morning when the local office opens.

    They need to make amends, and endorse Kamala Harris wholeheartedly and immediately.

  73. 73.

    opiejeanne

    @Aussie Sheila: We don’t know that Pelosi said he couldn’t win. We do not yet know what transpired, at all. She announced her strong support for Biden on Saturday evening.

  74. 74.

    Chris T.

    I’m sticking with my prediction for tomorrow’s NYT Op-Ed. It will be about how the Dems must hold an open convention, with Joe Manchin, JD Vance, and Donald Trump (perhaps Jr) as the Most Favored Candidates.

  75. 75.

    opiejeanne

    @Tony Jay: Oh, FFS!

    Wait.

    I hope that came from your hilariously fevered brain and isn’t real.

    ETA: I reacted too soon, missed the little nasty bits. You’re just that good

  76. 76.

    Martin

    @Chet Murthy: Obama was. And the electorate has gotten a lot less white since then.

    I think the more interesting comparison is with Hillary. The GOP loved Hillary because they’d already spent decades dirtying Hillary up and didn’t need to do much in the campaign because people had already internalized that shit. They don’t get that with Harris. They have to sell the attacks during the campaign, and I think that’s going to be pretty difficult without coming off as sexist and racist.

    I curious to see how hard Harris comes out of the gate here. She has the capacity to go really hard. Not sure we’ll see that, but I think the situation calls for it.

  77. 77.

    Martin

    @opiejeanne: I think the aggregate reporting here suggests that she did, and that she was the one setting the timetable here. She’s had to take a lot of hard lines with House races over a long period of time. She is VERY brass tacks, and I don’t think anyone gets a pass, not even Biden.

  78. 78.

    opiejeanne

    @hotshoe: I’m in a deep blue district in a blue state, WA ,but it’s only blue west of the Cascades.

    I don’t know why she’d be “no comment” but she’d better change it to “endorse” pretty damned fast.

  79. 79.

    Martin

    @opiejeanne: The misspelling of Haberman was the tell. NYT is, if anything, at least good at editing the stuff they put out, regardless of its inherent value.

  80. 80.

    Aussie Sheila

    @opiejeanne:

    Oh as someone who has been knee deep in union and Party factional stoushes all my life, I’m sure she had a lot to do with the decision.

    And good for her.

    While I still think Biden was the best US President in my lifetime, it is the job of Party leaders to ensure that members and supporters have the best chance of winning.

    This decision represents all Party leaders’ judgements that Harris is the best chance.

    It would be very foolish indeed to gainsay that decision.

    Oh, and for those wanting endorsements from Party leaders before the Convention in August. Take a breath and read the room.

    They know the decision there.

    Their job is to endorse the decision of the Convention delegates or the delegates canvassed prior to the Convention.

  81. 81.

    karen marie

    @Chet Murthy: I have hope that people will understand the basic issue is whether we continue as the country we are or become the land of nightmares. The competent black lady or the crazy old white guy and his band of rabid lunatics. Make Steven Miller the face of a possible Trump administration.

  83. 83.

    Kent

    @Cacti:

    All in for Harris.

    And for the VP choice, someone born 1965 or later pls. If we’re rejuvenating the party at the top, let’s not be half assed about it.

    My money is on PA Governor Josh Shapiro.  He is 51.

  84. 84.

    206inKY

    From the pandemic through February 15 of this year, I became dependent on bourbon to fall asleep. Haven’t had a drop since.

    I almost poured out a glass to celebrate Harris, our new queen, but I resisted thanks to a few flags in another thread reminding me that BJ is a dysfunctional but ultimately loving and effective support structure where folks refrain from neither a hearty “fuck you!” nor words of support where it matters.

    Donated $100 instead. I know some people hate me for my early and vocal conclusion that the debate had mortally wounded Biden, and that Harris was much stronger than we were acknowledging, with real legitimacy as VP and a path toward unity and even excitement. Half of you pied me. But I love this community and can’t wait to fight for Harris together.

    Go Kamala! Blow us all away!

  85. 85.

    Chet Murthy

    @karen marie: @Martin: I also hope that our electorate will look past the fact that she’s one of those dusky-hued types, and a woman to boot, to the fact that this is about whether we continue to have a Republic.  But deep in my gut, I no longer trust America and American voters.  Not since 2016.

  86. 86.

    Martin

    @Kent: So far nobody has explained how we don’t fall into the same hole with Harris/Shapiro that Biden/Harris has been in regarding Israel. Shapiro is not a neutral or balanced voice there. He’s to the right on Biden on Israel.

    That’s a constituency of Dem voters that Harris needs to win back, because they don’t have them right now, and it’s not a small number of votes.

  87. 87.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Chet Murthy:

    I get the gut wrenching fear that black Usains and black and brown  immigrants have about the election. I really do.

    But the best antidote to fear is action.

    Action = Agency.

    People have it if they act.

    Nothing is written. Eyes on the prize.

  88. 88.

    opiejeanne

    @206inKY: You weren’t obnoxious about it, so I didn’t pie you.  I pied some other people who were unable to move on once they’d said their piece 2 or 3 dozen times.

  89. 89.

    Chet Murthy

    @Aussie Sheila: Your formula works for people who have a simplistic view of the world.  But if you actually understand how the world works, then sadly, it doesn’t help.  There are a few facts:

    • each individual is powerless to change things even microscopically, b/c this is a country of 330m people, and billions of dollars will be spent on the election
    • and yet, if we do nothing, then certainly the forces of evil will  prevail
    • So yes, we must act, but we cannot pretend that our actions will have an impact sufficient to change our estimation of the course of events

    I add that up, and it tells me that action can’t change my fear.  Doesn’t mean I’m not acting.

  90. 90.

    Martin

    @Chet Murthy: The percentage of Americans who identify as white has dropped 12% since Obama was elected.

    Everything in this election suggests that at least demographically, Democrats have never been better positioned to win with a candidate of color, an LGBTQ candidate, a woman candidate. Ever.

    But because the GOP has completely dominated the discussion of what America should look like, and who qualifies to call themselves an American there is this perception that the landscape is a lot worse than it is. I think the problem is that Democrats internalize the GOPs message and talk themselves out of even trying or fighting for a multicultural, diverse America. 70% of Americans support gay marriage. Stop believing that Americans won’t accept a gay candidate. Make your argument for an inclusive society. Because what I see is a LOT of Democratic voters VERY skeptical that Dems actually believe in that, and that’s leaving a lot of voters on the sidelines. Fucking lean into it already.

  91. 91.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Martin:

    May I say that raising that issue now is not…..helpful.

    I agree with you about Gaza. We are having a huge internal debate here trying to get our Government to recognise Palestine.

    But I never expected better from a U.S. administration once Israel decided to do what it has done and continues to do.

    Biden was/is very much a creature of the Democratic Party from my youth when it comes to Israel. It’s terrible.

    But if anyone thinks, (not you of course), that a Republican administration would be better they are either knowingly lying or should get out of politics and join a circus.

    Here’s hoping that a Harris admin will be better on that issue.

  92. 92.

    Kent

    @Martin: Personally I don’t think this election is going to be about Israel.   I think that is down there at about 40th place on the list of issues.  Elections are never about foreign policy unless we are in an actual war with Americans dying like Vietnam.

    In any event, compared to Biden, I think Harris brings in far more young non-white voters, very few of which would leave because of Shapiro.

  93. 93.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Chet Murthy:

    I can’t help you there. I know fear.
    Collective political action is the only way through and out.

    Working with other people is both healthy and calming. It also works in politics.

    Individual teeth gnashing does nothing. At all.

  94. 94.

    Mai Naem mobile

    If poor wittle Stephen Miller and his Orange Messiah can’t even deal with a change of candidate in an American election how are they going to deal with a change of leadership among world leaders? What if something happens to Italian PM Meloni or SK President Yoon ? Is Miller going to stamp his little feet and complain that they weren’t planning on this? Idjit.

  95. 95.

    opiejeanne

    @Aussie Sheila: You know? You’re not here. You’re over there, thousands of miles away and while we do appreciate the rah-rah of people from other places, you really need to step back a bit and let us work through this for now.

    Your political landscape is very different from ours, and despite your many years of experience with “stoushes” within your own political realm,  it becomes tiring hearing from someone who is not here, is not from here, and seems to think all things are equal in politics.

    They are not.

    I just had a very nice Canadian lady tell me she couldn’t understand the fuss because surely the forward-thinking Democrats would have no problem voting for a woman, and a woman of color.

    This was a gut-wrenching day for many of us here, people were in tears, heartbroken and enraged, confused, even despairing, and now we’re working through it at our own pace. I think it would be better if you just let us get this bit done for a little while on our own.

    We are in the kissing and making up part for some members, while others are being cast out of the light, and my pie filter is being eased a bit as people calm the fuck down, but we are still not calm yet.

  96. 96.

    Martin

    @Aussie Sheila: I’m trying to raise the point that a lot of people don’t want to hear that Biden electoral problems aren’t solely due to his age or performance in the debate, as so many keep trying to claim. A LOT of young voters were lost to the Israel policy and it’s not enough to just address the age issue, that too needs to be addressed.

    There aren’t a lot of red flags for Harris to avoid in selecting a VP – I think there’s a lot of freedom there, but I do think she needs to remedy the Israel issue, and while I don’t think Shapiro is a deal breaker, I think it makes that a LOT harder when she already has a LOT to do.

  97. 97.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    The neo Nazis in control of the RNC have no idea what to do.

    Frankly they are fucked, and I think they know it.

    Good.

    This November election needs to be April 1945.

    Right now, it’s 1944.

  98. 98.

    opiejeanne

    @Chet Murthy: Thank you. Amen to all of what you just said.

    Really, I had to mute a somewhat popular commenter on Twitter because he sits on his lofty perch somewhere in Canada and gives advice that has no relation to the reality of politics and people in the US.

  100. 100.

    Aussie Sheila

    @opiejeanne:

    Sure I’m over here. But have you ever given a thought to people and nations whose past and future has been deeply and negatively effected by US politics?

    Let me assure you.

    Politically active and aware people around the world know and follow US politics more and better than the average US citizen.

    The US and its leaders bray about being ‘the leaders of the free world’ .
    You know what being a leader is?
    Someone who listens.

    The US has  brought the world to the brink with its electoral high jinks and lack of Party political discipline. Until now.

    I’m a big Biden stan. But your political Party leaders have told him to step down. And Biden did it. No one else in the world did that.

    Own it, and grow up.

  103. 103.

    Martin

    @opiejeanne: I didn’t interpret it that way. I appreciate Aussie Shiela’s comment here.

    Maybe it’s not the right time to bring it up, and maybe Citizen Alan is right for pieing me as an asshole, but I don’t abide by hiding from issues. I don’t particularly care if people are having a rough time around important issues – you deal with the important issue – because there are bigger things at stake than you having a bad day. That was always my job in my career – being that guy. And maybe that does make me an asshole.

    Anyway, Aussie Shiela is great. Nothing to see here.

  104. 104.

    Anne Laurie

    @wjca:“Child of elites”?  Really?

    I’m not an expert in such matters, I suppose.  But an economist and a breast cancer researcher are “elites” now?  Somehow, I suspect even the nouveau riche, let alone old money, would dispute that.

    Brown people should not be permitted to get higher education.  It makes them uppity — they start to challenge their betters.

  105. 105.

    Anne Laurie

    @Ishiyama: In both the Senate and the House, the prominent leadership is saying “no comment”, presumably for reasons.

    Theory I’ve read, from people who do this for a living, is that spreading ‘important’ endorsements out means Our Very Serious Media has to keep reporting them — however reluctantly.  A whole series of ‘Sen Somebody endorses’ stories instead of a brief ‘General approval by a laundry list of Dems.’

    Of course, the print stories will be buried in the back sections, but social media rewards volume… so there will be a lot of tweets as each Important Individual makes their announcement.

  106. 106.

    Chet Murthy

    @Anne Laurie: It’s what the bastards did to Joe (and to us) with their daily drip-drip of Sen So-and-So, Rep. Thus-and-Such call for Biden to drop out bullshit.  Atrios called it, said this daily drip-drip was orchestrated to keep the issue in the news, so Biden could never get past it.  If Biden and the Dem higher-ups planned this out, it’d be only just deserts for those bastards.

    And I have to note that throughout this ordeal, Atrios (who has often been a real PITA about Dem policies) has been 100% onside, pointing out just how damaging the campaign of attacks on Biden were.

  108. 108.

    Mai Naem mobile

    1. @Martin: I don’t think anybody knows how Kamala will do. I am not saying Biden didn’t have his issues. The polling is based on hypotheticals as far as Kamala. I starter seeing this Kamala is not a US citizen from the right a while back I guess because her parents weren’t American born(i don’t understand the argument since Kamala was born in Oakland) and that’s just the beginning. She’s going to have so much garbage thrown at her and I don’t know how the polling looks after that.
  109. 109.

    Chet Murthy

    @opiejeanne: Ehh, I mostly agree with the things Aussie Sheila says.  And if I were neurotypical, I’m sure her prescription would be a good one.  But I’ve been depressed for most of my adult life (certainly since college), and have learned how to soldier on, how to deliver, when things need doing, regardless of how I feel inside.  Doesn’t change how I feel; but things get done b/c they need to get done.

    They say that depressed people are much more accurate at making predictions about the world than neurotypicals: I ascribe that to the fact that an accurate prediction that you’re gonna die is not evolutionarily adaptive.

    I hope Martin is right about the American electorate.  I really  do.  The reasons for my doubts are two-fold:

    • the idiocy that the VA (supposedly a blue state) voters committed by installing the Fleece-Vest Nazi only 10 months after the Nazis tried to destroy our Republic, just over the border from them
    • In Biden the Dems had one of the best Presidents of my lifetime (and I’m 59).  American voters couldn’t see it, and to my mind, if they can’t see that, I have to question either their intelligence, or their morality.

    I of course hope Martin is right.

  110. 110.

    Martin

    @Anne Laurie: Oh, I don’t think that’s it. I think the leadership are the arbiters of whatever process they invent here and as such are taking a deliberately neutral role here in order to give it as much legitimacy as possible. Maybe if Harris needed the endorsement to settle this out they’d say something, but that doesn’t seem necessary.

    I suspect that they won’t weigh in until the roll call.

  111. 111.

    Chet Murthy

    @Mai Naem mobile: haha, it’s easy to explain what these racists argue.  Here’s the beginning of the 14A:

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

    Their imbecilic argument is that non-citizens are not subject to the jurisdiction of the USA, hence their children are not.  I mean, it’s just completely imbecilic, b/c every non-citizen present in the US is subject to all the laws of the United States of America, without exception.  All the laws.

    It’s Calvinball.

    ETA: IIRC, they adduce the argument that -diplomats’s- children are not automatically accorded birthright citizenship in the US.  But then, that’s a special case, and diplomats are in fact not fully subject to the laws of the US (b/c diplomatic immunity, the interior of embassies and consulates are not US territory, etc)

    ETA2: I have two siblings born in the US who are citizens b/c of 14A.  So I have a personal stake in this.

  112. 112.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Anne Laurie:

    Very good tactics.

    It’s hard for the Dem base that loves Biden, I know. But the die is cast.

    I know what it’s like when a beloved leader is tossed in favour of someone more likely to win.
    But you suck it up.

    Political movements can’t be beholden to people’s sentimental choices.

    Parties’ roles are to win and hold power. The role of the base is to make popular policies the way to do that.

    It may sound simplistic.

    It’s not. It’s the hardest needle to thread.

  114. 114.

    Chet Murthy

    @Aussie Sheila:

    when a beloved leader is tossed in favour of someone more likely to win.

    This is the substantifique moelle of it.  In 2020, Biden beat all the others, b/c people (specifically, Black people) thought he had a better chance of beating TCFG than the others did.  They thought that partially b/c they believed that he would be able to reassure white voters.  Today, somehow, we are to believe that that is no longer the case, and that one of the people he beat can do better with white voters than Joe can.  Maybe this is true.  Maybe.  We’ll see in the coming weeks and months.  But it’s not at all obvious, and the initial polling that says Harris is doing better than Biden is just that: initial polling.  It’s somewhat like the “generic Democrat” polling — uninfluenced by what the enemy can and will bring to bear.

    Maybe Harris is more likely to win [certainly, she’s more likely than any other replacement, that’s fer sure].  I sure hope so.  But it’s not obvious.

    substantifique moelle f (uncountable)

    (figuratively) the very substance, the true essence, the pith, the marrow, the crux of the matter, the heart of the matter, the core; the hidden meaning, the true meaning, the real meaning

  115. 115.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Chet Murthy: I understand why she’s a citizen, because, duh, she was born here. I do wish somebody would ask the RWrs bringing this up whether Usha Vance is a US citizen(her parents aren’t American born either) or has she been voting illegally in US elections?

  118. 118.

    Chet Murthy

    @Mai Naem mobile: Surely their reply would be that Mrs. Vance is an American citizen by dint of marriage, but she is not natural-born.  And sure, the same is true of VP Harris.  And sure, VP Harris can continue to be an American citizen, but since she is not natural-born, she cannot be President.

    Calvinball, yo’.

  119. 119.

    JAFD

    @Tony Jay: In minor UK election note:  Five decades plus ago, when I took PoliSci 101, ’twas passage on a reading on UK politics, “the two poles of the British party system can be represented by the constituencies of Rhondda West and Bournemouth East…”.

    Noted that Labour carried Bournemouth East in this election.  Comment ?  Thanks!

  120. 120.

    Betty Cracker

    Anecdata point: our Eternal Student and Gen Z friends who had complained bitterly about a rematch between two elderly white men are now excited about the election. The Eternal Student would have showed up to vote regardless due to a rigorous civic education received at home, but I’m not sure the friends would have. Now it sounds like they will. 🤞

  121. 121.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Aussie Sheila: ​
     

    Oh, and for those wanting endorsements from Party leaders before the Convention in August. Take a breath and read the room.

    You mean, read the endorsement tracker? Already 2/3 of the House and Senate Democrats have endorsed Harris, and the sun isn’t even up yet in the eastern U.S.

    So yeah, I wanted endorsements, I wanted them in a hurry, and it looks like they’ve been FedExed to my door. Looks like it’s gonna be a good week after all.

  123. 123.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Chet Murthy:

    Harris will win if the Dem Party and its base and supporters rally around her. So far, it seems to me, that is what is happening.

    The ‘essence’ of winning elections is to get more votes than your opponent, except in the US where it means a Presidential candidate has to win a number of states adding up to 270 electoral votes.

    It’s batshit and undemocratic imo, but who cares what anyone thinks about the US Constitution at this point.

    She just has to win.

    And everyone who worries here about the Republican Party and its turn to neo fascism will work to ensure that, I’m sure.

    Oh, and in case you think no one except the US has skin in the game. If trump wins and permits China to invade Taiwan, we are probably next.

    I’m not a China hawk at all. But I am realistic about how the world works in intl. politics.

    Trump would happily let Australia go to the dogs.

    Like the UK did to us in 1941.

    I’m under no illusions about Great Power politics, at all.

  125. 125.

    Chet Murthy

    @Aussie Sheila:

    Harris will win if the Dem Party and its base and supporters rally around her.

    This is a necessary, but not sufficient condition.  She will also have to convince the mushy middle voters — the Ariana Grande voters [coined by Paul Campos at LGM for voters who know as much about leading politicians, as we know about Ariana Grande] — to vote for her.  And there’s where that observation about the motivations of Clyburn and SC Black voters comes into play.

  127. 127.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Chet Murthy: pretty sure she was voting before marriage.

    I just remember a satirical  viral tweet around 2019 which went something like ” I didn’t buy this ticket, I want off this ride.” That’s kind of the way I’ve been feeling this week. I am tired of the Dems’ shitty strategy and shitty comms teams and the GOPs just total and utter lack of responsibility. The reason we are here is because chickenshit Mitch MConnell didn’t have the balls to impeach TFG. I pull out from my house Sunday morning and right off the bat I  end up driving behind a trumper SUV. I should have known the day was going to suck at that point. I’m just venting here.

  128. 128.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Chet Murthy:

    Look I understand your anxiety. I share it.

    But honestly it’s  no good worrying about people you don’t know.

    Doing something makes the worst less likely.

    Less worry about the ‘mythical’ typical voter, and more work to make sure people agree with you about who will be the best President.

  129. 129.

    Chris Johnson

    @opiejeanne: Likewise. If Joe Biden says this is the way to go, the whole reason I voted Biden/HARRIS in the primary was because I trusted him. That means trusting his team, and that means trusting that he knows how things really stand.

    Dark Brandon is sharp as hell when you give him a chance to think. The message I’m hearing is ‘double down on Americans being Americans’. The message I’m hearing is ‘turns out coddling old sexist racists with someone who they find super unobjectionable, just isn’t worth bothering with anymore’. Fuck ’em. They’re outnumbered and propped up by an equally old sexist racist media with all the same problems, and the lot of them have been driving America kind of insane for years now. Boomers refusing to let go no matter how old they get.

    I’d been avoiding some of my lefty youtube channels because they’d gone all doomer and were having a harder and harder time even coping with the reality that they were determined to vote for Joe Biden. They thought he was like all the others and they thought they were doomed, ruled by zombies forever.

    They were goddamn electrified by the news. They reacted like they could not believe, but could not deny, there was hope: hope THEIR way. I would love to see how they’d react if Buttigieg ends up VP: huge numbers of queer folk in these audiences, all expecting to be sent to camps. If they get to actually campaign and vote for a Harris/Buttigieg ticket and it’s a real thing, I can’t even imagine the enthusiasm: it’d make the Obama enthusiasm look really tame.

    Existential threat is one thing. Existential VALIDATION on the highest possible levels, is one hell of a thing. I’d like to see more of that. More than happy to fight fascists to bring that about.

  131. 131.

    Chris Johnson

    @Mai Naem mobile: The thing is, the Republicans have to pivot to the center to win over moderates. This is so obvious even the media, in their Kremlin-thralled haze, highlighted it, and have continually tried to imply that what we see out of the RNC etc. IS that.

    Good fuckin’ luck making that case from now on.

    It’s going to be IMPOSSIBLE to paint Trump’s people as moderate now, and where they go from here wouldn’t even have won the country with Reagan’s electorate. I was alive back then and even in REAGAN’S day it wouldn’t have been possible to win with a screeching shitweasel hostility ticket.

    Reagan ran on niceness and Morning In America.

    Good FUCKING luck getting the Trump people to make that pivot. That message is OURS.

  132. 132.

    Princess

    Give me a break. The Republicans didn’t even hold a primary in 2020. Cry me a river about the circles and the ballots, Steve.

  133. 133.

    p.a.

    1)
    @Anne Laurie: So the first stuttering steps in formulating attacks on Harris include her “elite” parents when her opponent is Donnie fucking tRump!?😂😂😂

    I once asked, in all seriousness, if tRump has ever driven a car.  Any photos?  Driver’s license?  Limos his whole life?

     

    2)

    The CW is that unless the US is at war, foreign policy issues don’t matter in presidential elections.   Current policy, US/Israel isn’t a winner in the Dem coalition.

    Focus on: a vote for tRump is a vote to defeat Ukraine as a foreign policy issue.  That has to resonate, right?

  135. 135.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Aussie Sheila: Thank you for your comments here, couldn’t agree more.

    I am actually fearful of a Trump victory for the opposite reason, that the über China Hawks that surround Trump will play the Taiwan card again & again in the Cold War 2.0 w/ the PRC, until at some point crossing some long established red lines, leading to rupture of Sino-US relations & a shooting war across the Taiwan Strait. & they won’t care because 1) many of these über China Hawks believe that a war w/ the PRC is inevitable & should be fought sooner rather than later, and 2) an “existential” struggle against a  clearly identifiable & alien enemy is conducive to the realization of their herrenvolk reactionary project domestically. They already came quite close at the very tail end of the 1st Trump Admin., when all of the relatively sane natsec people (though they themselves were hawkish on China) had already been run out town.

    Trump himself is a coward, if he is a dictator he could very well abandon Taiwan to its fate at the 1st sign of cross-Strait tensions. However, he is a lazy, incompetent FP neophyte (still) that is easily manipulated by the malevolent & aggressive people around him. Certainly, Chinese & Chinese Americans will be in the dead center of the crosshairs in a 2nd Trump term, alongside trans people.

    As for Harris, I am hoping that she is less beholden to the staid & obsolete FP conventional wisdom & conception of the U.S.’ role in the world than Biden, & instead has more of Obama’s sensibilities in relating to the wider world (but who unfortunately could only push back against the “Blob” at the margins while in office).

  136. 136.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Chet Murthy: ​
     

    She will also have to convince the mushy middle voters — the Ariana Grande voters [coined by Paul Campos at LGM for voters who know as much about leading politicians, as we know about Ariana Grande] — to vote for her.

    I’m very much with Martin on this one: it isn’t the mushy middle that we have to win (though it would be great if we manage that), it’s getting big turnout from the people who are on our side if they vote, but can’t be counted on to do so.

    So enthusiasm among young left-of-center people is a BFD here. Sure, for any given person, you don’t care if they vote enthusiastically or grudgingly so long as they vote. But when we’re talking about whole demographics of people, enthusiasm translates into higher turnout.

    And while I’ve been a Buttigieg skeptic pretty much from Day 1, I’m really starting to think that Martin’s right about him, and that he’d be perfect as the VP candidate for this moment in our politics. (I’m looking at myself and asking: am I really saying this? Apparently I am!)

  137. 137.

    JWR

    Kyrsten Sinema sez No Comment. I guess she’s one of those waiting to see which way the money tree blows before making her very own, honest to goodness, best for the country decision.

    Fortunately, Adam Schiff and my Rep., Judy Chu, are in the Endorse Harris column.

  138. 138.

    MomSense

    Reporting this morning is that over the weekend he called for two of his oldest, most trusted advisors.  They gave him the truth about his polling.  His campaign had “shielded” him from it. Wow.  I can’t believe his campaign wasn’t being forthcoming with him.  It was at the point where Pelosi and others told him they would go public on Monday and it would be hard on him.

  139. 139.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    Between Harris’s huge outpouring of support from elected officials and small donors, a conversation with my roomies after a weekend away, and a morning of Republican’s most crocodilian of tears; I think I’m better now.

  141. 141.

    Slightly_peeved

    @Chet Murthy:

    I think “low info” voters is fine, in that it’s well understood and wasn’t suggested by a conspiracy-pushing dickhead.

  142. 142.

    lowtechcyclist

    @p.a.: ​
     

    I once asked, in all seriousness, if tRump has ever driven a car. Any photos? Driver’s license? Limos his whole life?

    That’s a damn good question, actually! Because nothing says privilege like never having to drive yourself anywhere because you’ve always had someone to drive you. (As in, on your or your family’s payroll, not a cabbie or Uber driver.)

  143. 143.

    NotMax

    Musing on an al female ticket, I’d not be in the least averse to Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham of New Mexico. for Veep.

    Not gonna happen but dreams are free, right?

  144. 144.

    Geminid

    @Chet Murthy: So you were born on Bangalore. This reminds me of Virginia state Senator Suhas Subramanyam. He is favored to win the 10th Virginia CD this November. The 10th is composed of Loudon County, and some adjacent districts in Northern Virginia.

    Subramanyam was not born in Bangalore but his parents were. They came to the US through Dulles Airport, a few miles from where Senator Subramyam now lives. The Subramanyams traveled on to Houston, Texas where their son was born in 1987. After graduating from Clear Lake High School Subramanyam attended Tulane and then law school at Northwestern University.

    Suhas Subramanyam will succeed Rep. Jennifer Wexton, who sadly must retire because of a terrible neurological disorder. Wexton endorsed Subramanyam in the primary and with good reason. An Obama White House veteran, he seems a very capable public servant and at age 37 he has a promising career ahead of him.

  145. 145.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Chris Johnson: ​
     

    It’s going to be IMPOSSIBLE to paint Trump’s people as moderate now, and where they go from here wouldn’t even have won the country with Reagan’s electorate. I was alive back then and even in REAGAN’S day it wouldn’t have been possible to win with a screeching shitweasel hostility ticket.

    Reagan ran on niceness and Morning In America.

    Good FUCKING luck getting the Trump people to make that pivot. That message is OURS.

    This. Trumpism is all about hating on a whole bunch of different people, and wanting to stick it to all of them, good and hard. There’s no way to sugarcoat that.

  146. 146.

    Shalimar

    @lowtechcyclist: I was a strong no on Buttigieg in 2020 because of skepticism of anyone who has worked for McKinsey.  That is a major red flag.  I think he has overcome that now.  At some point actual performance should dominate, and he hasn’t made a single wrong step as Secretary of Transportation.  I think he would be an excellent VP candidate now.

  147. 147.

    NotMax

    @lowtechcyclist

    Little publicized about Mr. “EVs are the Devil’s spawn.”

    Donald Trump owned two American cars, one was a Tesla

    …his campaign told The Washington Post that a Tesla was one of two American-made cars in Trump’s collection, along with a Cadillac Escalade. Given the timing, it was almost surely a Model S sedan.

    Those two vehicles shared garage space with Ferrari, Maybach, Mercedes-Benz, and Rolls-Royce models, according to an article….

  148. 148.

    brantl

    @NotoriousJRT: just when I think you can’t get anymore tiresome.

    That would be: “just when I think you can’t get any more tiresome.” Anymore is about time, any more is comparative.

    .If you’re going to slag the pants-wetters, slag them correctly.

  151. 151.

    Princess

    @YY_Sima Qian: I think Buttigeig would be great and I think it’s foolish to be squeamish because he’s gay. The number of people who might vote with us but wouldn’t for a gay VP is minuscule. He’s midwestern and a great attack dog.

    i also like JB Pritzker. He’s the best governor in the US and a billionaire. He also weirdly comes across as a kind of Fred Flintstone regular guy type. Great contrast to Harris.

  152. 152.

    Aussie Sheila

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    Agree with all of that. The anti China sentiment in the U.S. is so childish, based on nothing more than China now has a larger economy than the US. So sick of rah rah US chest beating.
    I wonder if it will stop before I die?
    The idiots don’t understand that while the $US is the world’s reserve currency they can run fiscal and budget deficits that in any other country would mean a run on their currency and an economic crisis like the UK had under Truss, as well as a coup likely encouraged by the US, like Chile had.

    Even well informed usaians don’t really get that about the world we live in.

  153. 153.

    Shalimar

    @NotMax: I wouldn’t have even guessed Trump as someone who had a car collection.  He definitely has had drivers over the past 45 years.   One of them in the early 90s was mob-connected and caused problems with his Atlantic City gambling licenses.

    He might know how to drive, but I have never seen a story that mentions him driving himself anywhere (other than in a golf cart).

  155. 155.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Chris Johnson: i do not want to be a doom and gloom person. I’m just thinking of what was done to HRC and that Biden didn’t exactly win in a landslide in 2020 even after everything and Americans still gave the House to the GOP in 2022. I actually normally think more like you. I’m just having a hard time thinking like that at this point.

  156. 156.

    hueyplong

    @JWR: I’m not imaginative enough to conjure a Sinema quote about all this that I’d find interesting enough to read.

  157. 157.

    Mousebumples

    @JWR: Kyrsten Sinema sez No Comment. I guess she’s one of those waiting to see which way the money tree blows before making her very own, honest to goodness, best for the country decision.

    Is she even a Dem anymore? Maybe she can run with Manchin on his imaginary unity ticket.

  158. 158.

    BretH

    Optics. I couldn’t help but notice the tevee news lingering more and more on Biden shuffling as he walks, or carefully and slowly making his way up airplane steps. That was never going to go away and like it or not he appears physically more frail than … the other guy.

    We’re going to get a lot of clips of Harris laughing, and we’re going to hear a lot about her “cackle” but it’s not going to have remotely the same impact.

  159. 159.

    Spanish Moss

    @Betty Cracker: I have similar anecdata with my 4 kids (mostly early thirties). They would have voted for Joe, but there was a total lack of enthusiasm. Because I have been confronted with the enthusiasm gap from the youngs on a regular basis, I have been on the fence about Joe staying in the race. That, and a recognition that there was a lot of inside knowledge about Joe’s state and the state of the race that I would never have. I had no confidence that I knew what was best. Now, my kids are very excited, and the whole conversation has changed.

  160. 160.

    Betty Cracker

    I’m not sure the VP pick matters all that much, but I like to imagine Buttigeig making mincemeat of Vance in a VP debate. Pete would cheerfully eviscerate that phony, smug, neck-bearded, eyeliner-wearing motherfucker.

    @Spanish Moss: Good to hear! Harris has a lot of upside.

  161. 161.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @JWR: nobody gives a shit about what Kyrsten Sinema has to say. Last thing she got noticed was for  saying was how it’s a good thing to have a filibuster ain’t it, because, you know, the Dems are going to lose the Senate.  Apparently Kyrsten thinks the GOP acts in good faith.

  162. 162.

    Spanish Moss

    @Betty Cracker: I would so love for Pete to be the VP candidate. I never tire of hearing his rebuttals, I really think he is the best I have ever seen. Plus, he is very good at his job, I am so impressed with what he has accomplished with Transportation. Dare I dream?

  163. 163.

    Ken

    @rodwell: I cannot wait for the big sad Joe Manchin is going to get when he is not going to be the nominee.

    Yeah, Manchin’s statement was the most ridiculous I’ve seen so far, though apparently* Trump is running a close second with some sort of demand for a “refund” of campaign money.

    (* “Apparently”, because I get this stuff indirectly from Bluesky posts, which don’t always include the originals.)

  164. 164.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Betty Cracker: not the reason to pick him but Pete could handle a FOX nooz debate. Also he’s got toddler twins. Try dealing with the backlash from  pulling the homophobic stuff on a family with 2 little kids.

  165. 165.

    Ken

    @YY_Sima Qian: Trump himself is a coward, if he is a dictator he could very well abandon Taiwan to its fate at the 1st sign of cross-Strait tensions.

    Or the phrase “Trump Tower Beijing” being dropped into a conversation.

  167. 167.

    MomSense

    I’m also laughing my ass off about how much under the table money was probably spent on smearing Hunter and Joe on all the Burisma China laptop crime family nonsense.  He is the worst businessman.

  168. 168.

    JWR

    @hueyplong:
    I was just going by the No Comment/Endorse Harris chart posted upthread. I don’t think I could read about her in any case. ;)

    @Mousebumples:
    Or on his imaginary Dems Unified for Manchin caucus, which had better remain imaginary! ;)

  169. 169.

    trnc

    At this unprecedented juncture in American history, we must be clear about what just happened. The Democrat Trump Party forced the Democrat nominee immigration bill off the ballot floor vote, just over 100 days before the election to cynically deny the democratic president a “win” on immigration.  Having invalidated the votes of more than 14 million Americans 500 members of congress, some of whom selected Joe Biden to be the Democrat nominee for president, the self-proclaimed ‘party of democracy immigration control’ has proven exactly the opposite.​

     

    ETA: It is absolutely political malfeasance that every democrat does not say repubs tanked their own immigration bill every time they’re asked about it. Kamala has a chance to say it a lot when the repubs try to hang immigration around her neck.

  170. 170.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Shalimar:

    I was a strong no on Buttigieg in 2020 because of skepticism of anyone who has worked for McKinsey. That is a major red flag. I think he has overcome that now.

    For me it was just that being mayor of South Bend is the political equivalent of Class A ball, or maybe even rookie league. Being POTUS is just so far beyond that that it really pissed me off that his candidacy wasn’t just laughed out of existence.

    At some point actual performance should dominate, and he hasn’t made a single wrong step as Secretary of Transportation. I think he would be an excellent VP candidate now.

    Secretary of Transportation is a few rungs above being mayor of South Bend, and he has handled the position flawlessly. But it’s still one of the lesser Cabinet posts. In an ideal world, I wouldn’t want someone with his still somewhat thin experience being a heartbeat away from the Presidency.

    But right now, Job One is winning this freakin’ election.  And he’s very good at communicating and messaging, and he can think on his feet.  I think he would be an asset to the ticket, and I think his orientation, at this point, is an asset as well.

    The people who wouldn’t want him as veep because he’s gay are already voting for the other guy if they’re voting at all.  Dubya won in 2004 in part by running against gay marriage, but it’s not 2004 anymore.

  174. 174.

    JWR

    From the AP:

    “Meanwhile, West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin, who left the party earlier this year to become an independent, is considering re-registering as a Democrat to vie for the nomination against the vice president, according to Jonathan Kott, a longtime adviser to Manchin.”

    Said Manchin to self: “They love me. They really love me!”

  175. 175.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @JWR: Said Manchin to self: “They love me. They really love me!”

    The people who forced Biden out? Yeah, probably.  But you need voters.

  177. 177.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Mousebumples: ​
     

    Is she even a Dem anymore? Maybe she can run with Manchin on his imaginary unity ticket.

    She’s officially an Independent, but still caucusing with the Dems.

  178. 178.

    trnc

    here’s something funny: trump is a harris donor

    Given the bullshit claims that Kamala slept her way into office, repubs would probably respond with “they finally found a check Trump wrote to a porn star.” OTOH, that only speaks to the maga crowd and it reinforces his conviction, so still would be a net win for Kamala to mention it.

  179. 179.

    Geminid

    @Mousebumples: Sinema left the Democratic Party last year and became an Independent. Sinema’s primary polling against Ruben Gallego was discouraging and she may have thought she had a path to reelection as an Independent. But her poll numbers in 3-way general election match-ups were just as dismal so she gave it up.

  181. 181.

    Trivia Man

    @rodwell: Glad to hear Mikie was quick to respond. I protested outside the Frelinghuysen office until he stopped running and i worked some on the Mikie campaign. She can be a good advocate for Kamala.

  183. 183.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Anybody have a link to where I can donate to the Harris campaign? My google-fu is not up to the task. Either that or there is a conspiracy to side line her.​
     eta: never mind

  184. 184.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Citizen Alan: ​
     

    @lowtechcyclist: I would love to see Pete as Sec of Defense or State so he could get some foreign policy chops going forward.

    If Biden had stayed on and won in November, I’d have liked Pete to have run for governor of Michigan when Whitmer stepped down ahead of running for President in 2028.

    Biden dropping out has got to be already having Whitmer, Newsom, and some others trying to figure out when they’re going to run now. Assuming Harris wins, she’d be the incumbent in 2028. (And let’s not talk about if she loses. She’s gonna win, dammit!)

  185. 185.

    hueyplong

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: The only room Manchin can read is one filled with extraction industry donors.

    Alternatively, you could play the mind game in which you imagine Manchin as a Republican campaign operative since 2022* and look for things he’d have said and done differently if that were so.

     

    *Would have gone back a lot further except for that one vote.

  186. 186.

    Geminid

    @Citizen Alan: Pete Buttegieg would also make a good ambassador to a major Nato ally like France or Germany. Of course this could only happen if Vice President Harris wins this November.

  187. 187.

    SFAW

    @Aussie Sheila: ​
     

    The anti China sentiment in the U.S. is so childish, based on nothing more than China now has a larger economy than the US.

    For many (most?) Americans, the economy is a distant second vis-a-vis anti-China sentiment

  188. 188.

    trnc

    @guachi: ​
     

    Oh, and for those who wonder about endorsements the last I saw 147 Representatives and 32 Senators had endorsed Harris.

    Bookmarked! Thanks! All 50 state party chairs endorsed her as of last night, according to Howard Dean. That would be nice to see on the chart, too.

  189. 189.

    lowtechcyclist

    @divF: ​
     

    Finally! Someone who sees the resemblance of Stephen Miller to Heydrich, rather than Goebbels.

    I’d been thinking of him as Martin Bormann, but Heydrich works too.

  190. 190.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @hueyplong: Honestly, though, this is one instance where I think Manchin may be doing something useful; sending Democrats flying into Kamala’s arms by being the most available divisive person.

    Whether this is intentional or not, I can’t be sure.

  191. 191.

    zhena gogolia

    I guess I’m one of the “right people.” I thought Putin or Trump was going to end democracy in the U.S., but it turned out to be the Democrats.

  192. 192.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Cacti:

    And for the VP choice, someone born 1965 or later pls. If we’re rejuvenating the party at the top, let’s not be half assed about it.

    So someone at least 73 days younger than Harris, then? ;-)

  197. 197.

    SFAW

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I’d been thinking of him as Martin Bormann, but Heydrich works too.

    Given that Bormann is still alive, somewhere in South America*, you might be onto something.

    *Riffing on a rumor from my youthitude.

  198. 198.

    Aussie Sheila

    @SFAW:

    Well it’s certainly not the fact that China isn’t  a ‘democracy’. That’s never worried US elites or the US electorate.

    It’s because the US electorate  think  China stole US manufacturing jobs.

    Which is funny, because it’s US corporations that shipped all those ‘jerbs ’ to China.

    It’s called ‘capitalism’, which, I’ve been assured, delivers the best of all possible worlds to everyone.

    The US should do a better job explaining to its people who really sold their jobs.

  199. 199.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Eyeroller: But I also doubt that he is stupid.

    Selfish? Sure. Full of himself? Absolutely.  But I’m still deciding on stupid.

  200. 200.

    SFAW

    @zhena gogolia: ​
     

    I guess I’m one of the “right people.” I thought Putin or Trump was going to end democracy in the U.S., but it turned out to be the Democrats.

    No, that would be Rupert Murdoch.

  201. 201.

    Tony Jay

    @JAFD:

    Noted that Labour carried Bournemouth East in this election.  Comment ?  Thanks!

    On a quick lunch, so I’ll be brief.

    Nice little snapshot of what happened this election.

    Tory MP who was a ‘face’ of the then Government. Turnout down. Not by as much as nationwide (which was the lowest in decades) but by thousands.

    Tory vote halved. There may have been some Tory to Labour switching, but on the raw numbers it’s easier to make a case that thousands of Tories stayed home, a large number of them went Reform (Fascist Frog) Party, and newnewlabourinc made up the difference in tactical voters who would normally be Lib Dems.

    So the lack of an excited electorate and the presence of the Fascist Frogs allowed Labour to pick up a seat that would otherwise have been comfortably Tory. Reunite the Right and that seat is gone.

    Story of the election. Shockingly disengaged electorate. Tories unpopular and leaking votes to the Hard Right, allowing unpopular opposition to nip in despite huge drop on their own vote. Undemocratic voting system provides widely slanted number of seats to minority government.

  204. 204.

    Eyeroller

    @SFAW: I know it’s a joke, but Bormann’s body was found in 1972, identified through dental and skeletal matching, then conclusively identified through DNA in 1998.

  207. 207.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @zhena gogolia: As long as those people put in the work to get Kamala in the White House, I don’t care. If they don’t, they’re hypocrites who think doing nothing but posting rhetoric online is a viable political strategy. Fuck ’em.

  209. 209.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Quinerly: I’m not personally excited. What we witnessed was a national tragedy.  I have had a slight bit of faith restored that Ds will do the right thing (after having done the wrong thing) and nominate Harris.

    If they don’t, I’m right back where zhena is.

  211. 211.

    SFAW

    @Aussie Sheila: ​
     

    Well it’s certainly not the fact that China isn’t a ‘democracy’. That’s never worried US elites or the US electorate.
    It’s because the US electorate think China stole US manufacturing jobs.

    I’m sure there is some segment of the Fox-watching population that fits your supposition in the third sentence. But for some of us, it goes far beyond that, and has for years. The “offshoring” (as the CEOs used to call it) of jobs is wrapped up in that, but it’s not the driver.

  215. 215.

    Geminid

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Manchin may just want the attention. He got plenty in the last Congress but he’s become much less important in this one.

    And come January Manchin will be a has-been. I can see the TV networks now:

    “Sorry Joe, we don’t have room for you on this week’s Sunday show. We’ve already booked Jim Justice. How about Saturday night, in the 8 p.m. slot? We’ll even give you your own show!”

  218. 218.

    prostratedragon

    There are times when getting what you want should be met with silence, and attention to the important tasks at hand, much like those of us who have not got what we wanted. Grace may be a bit strained for a while, though it’s important to get behind the new candidate.

  220. 220.

    JWR

    I just listened to Joe Manchin on CBS TV bitching about Biden hand-picking Kamala Harris as his successor. He’s pushing this “we deserve a primary, or a contested or a mini-primary to choose the next president, because Kamala is too far to the left”, which isn’t the world he lives in. Screw you, Joe fathead. But at least he says he’s not interested in running, with the usual caveats about “well, if the people really want me” sort of way.

    And Harris has raised $49.6 million just today! A record, I think.

  222. 222.

    SFAW

    @Ken: ​
     
    From the real Mission: Impossible (i.e., with Steven Hill), not those pretenders that came after.

  223. 223.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @JWR: Now that the voting is over, the only way regular folk have to show support is their dollars.

  224. 224.

    bluefoot

    @Chet Murthy: As a WOC who is part Indian, my experience and that of my siblings in other parts of the country (incl PA and WI) tell me that white America won’t put a WOC in power. I hope to hell I’m wrong. And if she’s elected, will the same “elites” allow her to continue to push this administrations agenda of holding the same elites accountable or passing laws the benefit normal people? They will have learned they’re not answerable to anyone.

    if it’s not Uncle Joe then I’m behind Kamala Auntie (as my Indian friends call her) 100%.

  225. 225.

    Quinerly

    @zhena gogolia:

    In the last few weeks, I have learned a lot about commenters I once respected here. (And I only read 1/10 of the comments).  One of the kindest things I can say is some people appear not to be living in the real world. This outcome has been pretty obvious for at least 10 days now.

    Biden is a big boy, a tough and seasoned politician. He knew he couldn’t win. He did a very patriotic thing. I have the upmost respect for him. Biden couldn’t win in this environment. Harris can win.

    I am not naming names but I am convinced that some here will not be happy now unless Trump wins and they can say, “I told you so.”

  226. 226.

    EarthWindFire

    @Ksmiami: Assuming this was your preferred outcome, make no mistake. The big money guys got us here.

    Preacher Johnson and his concern can go straight to hell. No Republican will ever speak for me.

    @Chet Murthy: Come sit next to me. I don’t trust the American voter with anyone female. Breaks my heart as a female but this was one of many reasons I wasn’t a passenger on the Dump Biden train. Guess we’re going to have our fears confirmed or denied.

  229. 229.

    sab

    @Geminid: I doubt Pete Buttigieg wants ro take his two tiny children away from home and country  and grandmother support at this stage of his life.

  230. 230.

    Quinerly

    @JWR: Manchin is making a complete fool out of himself. He left the party. He needs to shut the fuck up. No one cares what he says.

  231. 231.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Quinerly: Biden is a big boy, a tough and seasoned politician. He knew he couldn’t win. He did a very patriotic thing. I have the upmost respect for him. Biden couldn’t win in this environment. Harris can win.

    I am not naming names but I am convinced that some here will not be happy now unless Trump wins and they can say, “I told you so.”

    Like you’re doing right now? Look, I’m a lot more over it than she is but I am appalled at the shallowness and ageism of a lot of people.

    That environment he “couldn’t win” in was entirely a creation of the media, donors, and normies who think they have no responsibility for participating in the democratic process and just want Dems to spoon-feed them their preferred nominee.

    This all happened in backrooms because of monied interests.

    What happened is not OK.

  232. 232.

    BellyCat

    As I’ve mentioned before, my S.O. is a geriatric specialist (and a HUGE Biden /Harris fan). Last night she said that Joe’s recent physical and verbal behaviors seem fairly consistent with early symptoms of Parkinson’s disease. Importantly, dementia is a separate condition not presumed to be present with Parkinson’s.

    While the media and big donors exerted an entirely unfair campaign, it seems unlikely that Joe would cave to them if he genuinely thought he could win. However, if he really is facing Parkinson’s, or another health diminution (which COVID may have exacerbated) he may have concluded that even if he could govern for another four years, he might not have been able to campaign effectively enough to win and/or carry down-ballot candidates.

    This is about the only thing that makes some sense to me given Joe’s strong values. Would also explain those close to him expressing concern, which was appropriate in private and inappropriate in public.

    Only time will tell whether this theory holds any water, but I like it much better than thinking he was stabbed in the back by his own.

    Aging can be complicated in unanticipated and sudden ways. Joe’s service to our nation has earned my deepest respect. Steadfastly supporting his endorsement of Kamala is one way to honor his very difficult decision to step down, which put country ahead of self.

  233. 233.

    hueyplong

    @JWR: Who is Manchin’s audience at this point?  Not even West Virginians are ok with him anymore.  The “story” in his appearance is that CBS booked him.

  234. 234.

    trnc

    I will always happily mention that Manchin helped get a ton of federal judges approved for Biden.

    But for just about everything else in the last 4 years, he can fuck right off.

  236. 236.

    Ksmiami

    @EarthWindFire: I was Biden all the way. My previous comments in other threads show this. However, I do feel like we can take advantage of the situation at hand and beat the Republicans. After November, we all need to force a hard look at both so called Dem leadership and the party’s relationship with the media oligarchs. Including and up to driving a stake through the NYTines political desk.

  237. 237.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Mai Naem mobile: I starter seeing this Kamala is not a US citizen from the right a while back I guess because her parents weren’t American born(i don’t understand the argument since Kamala was born in Oakland

    In 2020 it was laughed out of the room because no one would fake being born in Oakland.

  238. 238.

    bluefoot

    @lowtechcyclist: imo it’s not just turnout from our side but turnout from people who weren’t enthusiastic about TCFG who will come out to vote against Harris.

    My experience as a Californian WOC (also part Indian) who has lived in multiple states and now in MA has me skeptical (cynical?) about how this may go down. I really really want to be wrong.

  240. 240.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Now that the voting is over, the only way regular folk have to show support is their dollars.

    Almost over. The MO primary is Aug 6. Pretty safe to say DEM turnout will be depressed and much ado about nothing will be made of that fact. My wife and I will vote Biden-Harris anyway and I sent the Harris campaign a donation a little while ago.

  242. 242.

    Eyeroller

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Her parents were not US citizens at the time of her birth.  It’s hard to believe, but there’s an argument out there that this means she isn’t eligible for birthright citizenship so is not really a citizen.

  243. 243.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Eyeroller: ​
     

    I know it’s a joke, but Bormann’s body was found in 1972, identified through dental and skeletal matching, then conclusively identified through DNA in 1998.

    Also, if he were still alive, he’d be 124 years old.

  244. 244.

    Ken

    @SFAW: They never explained why Briggs was replaced with Phelps. My theory is that he chose not to accept a mission, and was whisked away to some US equivalent of The Village.

  245. 245.

    Geminid

    @sab: Maybe. But I’m thinking more like two years from now, in 2026 or in a second Harris administration. Someone suggested Buttegieg develop foreign policy or national security expertise as Secretary of State or Defence, but those Cabinet members spend a lot of time on the road.

    For now though I would want to see Pete Buttigieg stay on as Transportation Secretary if we win. That work has become more important with the Infrastructure bill. Buttigieg has been excellent in this role and there is still important work to do.

  247. 247.

    Anyway

    feeling a little off the ledge today after the overwhelming support for the VP last night — will rest easy only after Kamala has the nomination in hand (and Clooney’s seal of approval of course)

    Also enjoyed the GQP and Trump getting flat footed by Biden’s announcement

  248. 248.

    SFAW

    Possibly interesting/encouraging anecdote: my 29-year-old daughter — politically aware, a strong Biden supporter, wanted him to stay in the race (as did I) — has a number of friends who were upset with President Biden for Gaza and related issues. “Upset” to the point of maybe not voting for him. [Which frustrated her, because she thought they’re being dumbshits.] With the events of yesterday, many/most of them are indicating they’re psyched about VP Harris (they hope) being the nominee.

    I realize the plural of “anecdote” is not “data,” but I am hopeful that similar situations are occuring elsewhere.

  249. 249.

    Quinerly

    @BellyCat:

    Thanks for this very thoughtful comment.

    A good friend of mine called me after the debate. He is a strong Dem and Biden fan. In his late 70’s. Recently diagnosed with Parkinson’s. When he called me he said he thought Biden had the start of Parkinson’s. We talked for about 90 minutes. He cried. We had a very indepth conversation about his early symptons.

    I have not discussed that conversation with anyone until now.

  251. 251.

    trnc

    @Martin: ​
     

    So far nobody has explained how we don’t fall into the same hole with Harris/Shapiro that Biden/Harris has been in regarding Israel.

    We’ll see what happens, but even if she doesn’t present a big policy change, my go to line has been that even if Israel is your number one issue, DT will give Bibi an absolute green light for genocide AND he’s absolutely terrible on every other issue you care about. Also, DT will go after Palestinian Americans (or anyone else) who oppose him.

  254. 254.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Ksmiami: Yep.

    If Trump tries to stalk Kamala onstage at the next debate as he did with Hillary, he’s gonna need a walker.

  256. 256.

    trnc

    @opiejeanne: ​
     

    @Aussie Sheila: Are you actually tone-policing Martin???

    I’m out. This is too much, after the events of today, it’s too much.

    Looks to me like they’re engaged in a discussion, which is the point of most blogs. Let’s engage and accept that there will be disagreements. The alternative is to become an echo chamber, which is one of the biggest problems with the modern repub party.

  258. 258.

    geg6

    @Kent:

    Hell no.  This is still a purple state and I want to keep the governor’s mansion Democratic.  Keep his name out of your mouth.

  259. 259.

    Eyeroller

    I’m glad to see the long-distance TV diagnosticians are back. I assume they are basing this on Biden having trouble walking. If he has neuropathy in his feet he probably doesn’t quite know where they are so that’s going to cause problems. It was also in his medical reports that he has stiffness due to arthritis, especially in his right foot from breaking it in his bicycle accident. His voice doesn’t really sound all that softer when he doesn’t have a cold, except for “old guy vocal cords.”

    The other common early symptoms of Parkinson’s wouldn’t be so visible on TV but they are more diagnostic (loss of sense of smell–this can happen years in advance, sleep disturbances). We don’t know about that.

    Nobody should make a diagnosis of Parkinson’s based on looking at how somebody walks on TV.

  260. 260.

    Quinerly

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I stand by my comment.

    The narrative was set by the media and by Joe’s piss poor, pathetic debate performance. The Dems were never going to overcome the narrative.

    Time for a reset. Politics is a rough business. Gotta have money to play. Sad but true. Get money out of politics and get the media to stop playing favorites, then we can have another discussion. Right now, it is what it is. No one probably knows that more than Joe Biden. He has been in the game over 50 years.

    For what it is worth, in my day to day encounters, BJ seems to be the only place that thought Joe should stay in. I have not talked to one person since that debate that thought he should stay in

  261. 261.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Eyeroller: Nobody should make a diagnosis of Parkinson’s based on looking at how somebody walks on TV.

    B-but they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Doesn’t that count?

  262. 262.

    lowtechcyclist

    @BellyCat: ​

    As I’ve mentioned before, my S.O. is a geriatric specialist (and a HUGE Biden /Harris fan). Last night she said that Joe’s recent physical and verbal behaviors seem fairly consistent with early symptoms of Parkinson’s disease. Importantly, dementia is a separate condition not presumed to be present with Parkinson’s.

    Having had one parent with Parkinson’s and the other with dementia, I concur that they’re unrelated conditions. My father started showing symptoms of Parkinson’s just after he turned 80; he lived another decade, and he was intellectually sharp until his last weeks.

  263. 263.

    jimmiraybob

    @OzarkHillbilly: ​
     
    I’ve never looked for a write in option but do MO ballots have this choice? Could writing in “Harris – Her Choice 2024” be an option?

    Otherwise, it’s straight D for me. MO R’s are absolutely delusional MAGA-lunatic flame thrower enthusiasts.

  266. 266.

    lowtechcyclist

    @hueyplong:

    Who is Manchin’s audience at this point? Not even West Virginians are ok with him anymore. The “story” in his appearance is that CBS booked him.

    The Village is his audience. He’ll probably get some of the TV bookings that have been going to Chris Christie.

  267. 267.

    Ksmiami

    I’m out after this because I gotta get work done – I was just thinking that Kamala’s new campaign really shows how bad the Vance as VP pick is. He’s got a nothing resume and is a Rt wing nut.

  268. 268.

    sab

    @Geminid: My feelings exactly. Transportation is important. As a mayor he learned that. My city has damn near killed itself with stupid transportation infrastructure decisions made over the last couple of generations.

    Also too trains. I live near train tracks and E. Palestine derailment was on my side of my state.

    And my siblings fly a lot for professional reasons.

    Buttigieg has been very effective calling attention to the possibilities of doing it right.

  271. 271.

    Ken

    @Anyway: Also enjoyed the GQP and Trump getting flat footed by Biden’s announcement

    They do seem about as pleased about it as they are about Dobbs, and about all the fabulous publicity that Project 2025 has been getting.

  273. 273.

    lowtechcyclist

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    If Trump tries to stalk Kamala onstage at the next debate as he did with Hillary, he’s gonna need a walker.

    Be funny if he did that, and she turned around and kicked him in the nuts.

    At least, I’d find it funny! While he was rolling on the floor in pain, holding his crotch, I’d be rolling on the floor laughing.

  274. 274.

    Raven

    Independent West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin said Monday “I am not going to be a candidate for president” following Joe Biden’s exit from the race.

  275. 275.

    Ken

    @Ksmiami: Trump is OLD.
    @Ksmiami: Trump is OOOLLLLLDDD! And a criminal.

    Are we all supposed to recite the list, then add one more item? I was never very good at those party games. And in this case the list could become very, very long.

  276. 276.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @jimmiraybob: ​I’ve never looked for a write in option but do MO ballots have this choice?

    TBH, I don’t know. Never felt the need for one. The way I look at it, a Biden-Harris vote is a vote for her to be president as that was always a very real possibility.

  277. 277.

    Starfish

    @Chet Murthy: I think this is a different election than 2016. People were sure that Clinton was going to win, and they just did not take the election seriously.

    Since then, the activist judiciary has overturned Roe.

    People were very “sure whatever” if anyone was concerned about the courts last time.

  278. 278.

    Kay

    @TBone:

    Harris has a relationship with labor. California is (of course) a huge labor state, because it’s a huge blue state. SEIU members would be younger, browner and more female than manufacturing unions or skilled trades – they’re a perfect fit with her.

  279. 279.

    Ken

    @Raven: Independent West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin said Monday “I am not going to be a candidate for president”

    “Why, so can I, or so can any man; but why would the press bother to report it?” — Henry IV, Part 1

  280. 280.

    Quinerly

    Loving Roy Cooper on MJ.

    Great to hear that NC accent. He sounds like my father. Missing my home state a little right now.

    Harris/Cooper???❤️

  281. 281.

    Soprano2

    Ok, that Stephen Miller video was gold! I was laughing out loud at him. He sounds unhinged. What about if the nominee had died, would we be unable to replace that person on the ballot?

  284. 284.

    Ken

    @Quinerly: Harris/Cooper???

    Rule 2. No Democratic governors unless we’re certain the replacement will be a Democrat.

    Rule 1 is of course no Democratic senators unless we’re certain blah blah.

    And Rule 0 is “After the Brown/Coakley election, we are never certain the replacement will be a Democrat.”

  285. 285.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Quinerly: The LGM comment section thought he should stay in and the vibe across most many comment sections was commenters vs. malicious media actors.  Happened at the Coup York Times, Adam Schiff’s Facebook.

    Committed activists wanted to stand by Biden. He won the primary. Substituting the will of bigwigs and donors over voters because the rabble are upset by a false propaganda campaign pushed by the same malicious actors is wrong.

    This was Hitler in Czechoslovakia and we made the wrong choice.

  287. 287.

    Eyeroller

    @lowtechcyclist: Since we’re dealing in anecdata and impressions, here’s mine:  somebody I know quite well who is now in her mid-90s does not now and has never had Parkinson’s.  When she was about Joe Biden’s age, she became completely dependent on a Rollator due to arthritis and neuropathy.  She could still drive but had to buy a new car because she had difficulty getting in and out of one with a low threshold.​

    She has deteriorated a lot over the past few years but not due to Parkinson’s, with or without Lewy body dementia.

  289. 289.

    Soprano2

    @karen marie: I’m hoping that one thing that comes out of this is that some people will start paying attention to how absolutely unhinged TCFG sounds most of the time. The contrast will be striking.

  290. 290.

    Geminid

    @trnc: I’ll always remember the slick move Manchin and Schumer made with the Inflation Reduction Act, in July of 2022. Manchin had told reporters in iate June that this energy transition legislation was dead and he was moving on.

    The two Democrats waited to get the CHIP+ bill passed with Republican votes, and then boom! That afternoon Schumer and Manchin announced they’d agreed on the IRA. It passed a few weeks later with Vice President Harris casting the deciding vote. Schumer and Manchin had stolen McConnell’s lunch money and pantsed him too.

    The CHIPS and IRA bills will have far-reaching effects. Each one is projected to initiate trillions of dollars in private investment and their provisions are starting to make a difference in the overall economy.

    Besides the judges you mention, Manchin also voted for the $1.9 trilion American Recovery Act and helped put together the 60 votes required for the Infrastructure and CHIPS bills. But Manchin’s most important vote was in early January of 2021, when he helped elect Chuck Schumer as Majority Leader.

  292. 292.

    TBone

    @Kay: it’s still yuge news and a great endorsement right out of the gate!

    Service Employees International Union!

    I marched with SEIU at Occupy Philly.

  293. 293.

    hueyplong

    @Soprano2: I think the hope (I wish the word were “expectation”) is that, at least for a while, the spotlight will shift from Biden’s supposed frailty to Trump’s combination of physical, mental and psychological impairment, with lots of edited shots repeatedly making the points we’d like to see made.

    Not sure Trump was ever good at a spotlight that wasn’t worked from a FoxNews sound truck or studio.

    It’s totally fair for people to have no faith that any of the above will actually happen, but at least it’s a nice kick start to a credible anti-media campaign by Harris/SomeWhiteGuyWithSomeButNotTooMuchGrayHair.

  294. 294.

    zhena gogolia

    @hueyplong: If you think the New York Times is going to let Harris win (if she even gets to be the nominee, which is by no means certain), I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

    They have one scalp, they’re going to be out for more.

  295. 295.

    jimmiraybob

    @Soprano2: “Ok, that Stephen Miller video was gold! I was laughing out loud at him. He sounds unhinged.”

    I have never not heard him sounding unhinged.

  296. 296.

    SFAW

    @Quinerly: ​

    For what it is worth, in my day to day encounters, BJ seems to be the only place that thought Joe should stay in. I have not talked to one person since that debate that thought he should stay in

    Troll.
    How’s Jojo doing? [Interestingly, my brain defaults to “Poco,” not Jojo. I know Poco has been gone for awhile, but Poco’s name is the first doggie that comes to mind when I see your name.]​​

  297. 297.

    narya

    I trusted Joe to make the decisions HE thought best, and he came through, time and again. I am not convinced that he was forced out, in that if he thought he could run and win, he would have stayed in, despite what George and Adam and whomever had to say. (I will not forget or easily forgive their behavior, mind you.)  Joe may feel different enough now, physically, than he did a year ago when he decided to run, or some other factors played a role; I don’t want to take away his agency in this decision. I also believe that he didn’t just suddenly come to this decision; he has too much experience for that. I don’t think he would have done this without locking down as much as he could before announcing. I’m going to write a whole bunch of postcards.

  298. 298.

    Quinerly

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    I don’t have the hrs and hrs that some of you have to comment repeatedly here, saying the same thing over and over. And, I am retired. I do consume a lot of news sources, read other blogs, talk to non politically obsessed people who hate Trump.  I stand by everything I have said the past 3 weeks. I trust Biden and his decision.  In many people’s minds, it was the only rational decision.

    Time to move one. Hope you can have a good week.

  300. 300.

    hueyplong

    @zhena gogolia: I get where you’re coming from.  I was there yesterday and am still there now to some degree.  I’ve decided that our bad situation isn’t the fault of people who post here, and I prefer to believe that a life-and-death battle isn’t lost yet.  You are, of course, under no obligation to agree.

  301. 301.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Soprano2: Although their motives were BS, the MSM could pretend that amplifying the concerns about Biden’s age were legitimate.

    But, as Erick Erickson realizes, the attacks on Kamala are going to be primarily fueled by unhinged racism and misogyny. Oh sure, the base will eagerly gobble up this garbage, but everyone else not in the cult is going to be horrified.

    The hardcore cultists won’t be able to pivot to the center. They can’t. It’s rabbit holes all the way down.

  302. 302.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Quinerly: Sorry but this is definitely the first time through all this I explained to you how tedious, condescending, and insensitive you’re being.

    And what the hell else am I supposed to do on the morning train?

    ETA: I was actually trying to console zhena until you decided to play the bully.

  303. 303.

    AM in NC

    @Ken: Cooper is term limited, so he is not running for NC Governor this year – but please feel free to check out and donate to Josh Stein (our current Attorney General and all the stands between us and ULTRA-freak GOP Candidate Mark Robinson).

    Cooper was very good for our state and would be a good complement to Harris, I think.

  304. 304.

    Geminid

    @Ken: Governor Cooper is term limited and his successor will be determined this November. He need not resign to run with Harris. I think that Cooper running on the top ticket won’t hurt the Democrat in the race and would likely help him.

  305. 305.

    Eyeroller

    @Quinerly: He was absolutely forced out.  He knew the attacks were not going to stop and were going to make it impossible for him to recover. The Party was focusing all its effort on shanking him and none on attacking Trump.  He recognized that this wasn’t sustainable.

    We’ll never know now whether he could have won, but the nonstop attacks were setting up a self-fulfilling prophecy so best not to find out.

  308. 308.

    JWR

    @hueyplong:

    The “story” in his appearance is that CBS booked him.

    That’s what I was thinking Sunday morning when CBS’s FTN chose to interview not only Manchin, but also, [drum roll, please], Dean Phillips! wOo hoO!

  309. 309.

    Quinerly

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    Now that’s rich….insensitive????

    Go have that discussion with some of the regular “valued” commenters who have been hurling personal insults and wishing death on commenters….and their family members. And, as I said, I don’t even have time to read everything that has been said to some of us who were stating the obvious with thoughtful, smart arguments.

  310. 310.

    geg6

    @zhena gogolia:

    Yep.  I’m still going to vote for Harris regardless but I’m well known for holding grudges IRL.  There are people here and in IRL that I have completely lost any respect or affection for and they cannot do anything to change my mind about that.  But it seems they don’t care anyway.  Just high fiveing each other and telling the rest of us to shut up and get with THEIR program.  Fuck them.  I’ll be pissed if I want to and, since turn about is fair play, I don’t give a shit if they like it or not.

    We’ll see if the donors, who now own them too, will allow Harris the nomination and will step up.  Haven’t seen any evidence of that yet.

  311. 311.

    hueyplong

    The main thing Cooper does vis a vis the other guys being mentioned is that he doesn’t really subtract from another venue.

    My only concern about him is that I don’t want another Mark Warner.  Looking past their shared bland paleness, I’m encouraged by the fact that Cooper isn’t hobbled by the irritating insistence on mythical Senate “collegiality” and has instead faced a hyper-partisan GOP legislative supermajority that lives to override vetoes of their extremist legislation.

    When was the last time a major party put forth a ticket of two former AGs?

  312. 312.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Quinerly: I have never threatened anyone in any regard.  At worst I had moments of intemperance.

    You need some pie.

  316. 316.

    BellyCat

    @Quinerly: Not aiming for an armchair diagnosis here, but instead am relying on visual and auditory cues interpreted by a professional, which is what they would pursue diagnostically, one on one.

    But a genuine health  issue would explain a LOT, if this were the case.

    but this would explain a LOT, if this were the case.

    Strength, love and support to your friend and to Joe (if true), as well as all others in similar situations.

  318. 318.

    different-church-lady

    “Biden didn’t step aside in a way that matches my media circus scheduling needs” has got to be press asshole take of the year.

  319. 319.

    Chris Johnson

    @zhena gogolia: OK, that’s the last straw. Points for no longer insisting that what’s his face the actor secretly runs the Government, but I’m done with anybody who is seriously going to argue that, knowing our side was being attacked on a point, Joe Biden is not allowed the agency to make a bold call and re-energize people who were freaking out and losing hope.

    You may be as real as those people but the extent to which your narrative sticks, DETERMINES whether the Russians and the press will seize upon it and make it the only thing anyone hears. We’ve already seen that happen with ‘Biden old’ and now you’re fixing to walk right into another trap. I argue that is not useful behavior, and that it matters.

  321. 321.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Hey folks.

    Let’s not try to engage in another circular firing squad, OK?

    It’s counter-productive. And boring.

    What’s next?

  322. 322.

    Starfish

    @lowtechcyclist: My husband keeps asking “Can we have a Gen X President now?” and was disappointed when Harris was a few months above the cut off that he was looking at.

  323. 323.

    kindness

    I stayed off the internet/MSM yesterday after Joe made his announcement.  Needed space.  Couple things:

    1) It’s going to Kamela and someone else.  Manchin (and all the Republican trolls) can go fuck themselves.

    2) I hope Kamela continues Uncle Joe’s ignoring the gd NY Times because fuck them.

    3) Kamela can’t pick a Senator from a red state for VP.  I’d really like to see her pick Pete B.

    4) I’m still thankful to have the pie filter working.  I can only imagine what I’m missing and my blood pressure thanks me for that.

  324. 324.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Chris Johnson: Her narrative sticks the more you assert “nothing to see here, time to move on.” We had to put up with months of abuse over this.

    Now you can’t even tolerate someone being upset 18 hours later.

  325. 325.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @kindness: The pie filter is invaluable. It’s one thing to express an opinion that some people aren’t going to agree with. I don’t need to see the same argument made multiple times.

  327. 327.

    different-church-lady

    @Betty Cracker: ​You wanna know what this place was?
    This place was the only place where some people figured out you publicly support the nominee right up until he’s not the nominee anymore.

  328. 328.

    different-church-lady

    @Starfish: ​

    “Can we have a Gen X President now?”

    We can if our side gets smart again and does a lot of hard work.

    So, maybe.

  333. 333.

    RAM

    Russia and their U.S. political arm, MAGA, plus the NYT political desk are all scrambling to come up with a new anti-democratic, anti-Democratic message. Interesting to watch…

  335. 335.

    Quinerly

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s been an odd 3 weeks here. I am trying to choose my words carefully. I guess what has shocked me the most is the the vitriol and personal attacks. I can honestly say that this place will never be the same for me. I personally haven’t experienced much hatefullness here (granted, I don’t read anything after I bop out of a thread), but I have been appalled at how others have been treated. I have formed  some strong opinions of the character of some people here. That won’t change down the road no matter how many garden, travel pics are posted….or how many pets cross the rainbow bridge. I used to enjoy meeting BJers in person on my travels. I won’t make that effort ever again.

    Second, most shocking is this pie filter bullshit. I think it is one of the most childish of all things on a forum where everyone is supposed to be an adult. I guess it is to protect people who don’t want to hear any dissent. Frankly, I had paid no attention to it until recently (an overwrought, emotional commenter announced he was pieing Kay “forever”….I was like “what? Is this kindergarten?) Obviously not the way the real world works.

    The grand sweeping announcement of when a commenter will be pied. Just truly bizarre. If you can’t take dissenting views or even trollish behavior on a blog, you might need to take a break.

    Thanks for weighing in, Raven and Betty Cracker.

  336. 336.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    Shorter@Quinerly: I have no respect for people trying to express or protect their emotions. You can’t feel a way I don’t approve. Blah, blah, I don’t know the pie filter has a toggle. LaDeeDa, I just supported a national tragedy and got my way and now everyone else just needs to shut up.

  337. 337.

    Bupalos

    @tam1MI: Don’t forget to murder all the pols who failed to stand up for Biden (90+% of the caucus) and the majority of  registered dems, who crapped on democracy and insulted America by wanting a different candidate. But yes, the real priority after winning with the younger candidate needs to be slapping Pelosi, humiliating Schumer, kicking Obama in the nuts, elbowing Schiff in the gut, outing Valerie Jarret as a fascist, finding David Axlerod’s children, pulling clumps of Sherrod Browns hair out, and above all shunning anyone who ever gave or raised money for the Demoncrat party but stabbed Joe in both temples and ended democracy by stealing their money from him.

    Then we kill all the lawyers.

  338. 338.

    Quinerly

    @BellyCat: well, the usual suspects will probably accuse you of armchair diagnosis. I haven’t read all the comments.

    I understand exactly what you were saying. And, my friend going through it, saw what he saw. I am sure if he posted his honest, personal assessment here, he would be attacked by all the “experts” here.

    Take care. Again, thank you for your comment.

  339. 339.

    Bill Arnold

    @Ksmiami:

    First we get Kamala elected. Second, we reduce The NY Times to ash.

    My goals too. Abstract “ash” would be acceptable.

  341. 341.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Quinerly: I did. Missed the part  about the toggle? I still find your victory lap unseemly and will be toggling you as long as this particular thread remains alive.

  343. 343.

    Bupalos

    @trnc: Manchin apparently was the key piece in the skulduggery that fucked over the Turtle and resulted in the IRA. The key piece of our biggest achievement.

    This is how politics is. We make a mistake when we personalize and moralize it.

  344. 344.

    Layer8Problem

    @Bupalos:  Real classy response.  Not your usual evenhanded wall of text “could go both ways, who can say, crying shame Biden’s going to lose”, but of course Biden’s out.

    Biden is a big boy and I accept he did what was best.  I’m all in for Harris.  I’m looking forward to see how you and Martin turn “gotta stop Trump” into Many Deep Thoughts on the process.

  345. 345.

    BellyCat

    @Quinerly: Your sentiment summarizes EXACTLY how I feel  after these last few weeks.

    Treating new commenters with some reasonable doubt is perhaps worthwhile. Attacking them personally for contrary views is inappropriate at all levels, but increasingly so in proportion to how well they are known. For Kay, of all people(!), to be piled on is what got me to the point you’ve expressed well.

    The whole pie thing is touted as a plus. Maybe it is if moderation did not exist at all. But moderation does exist for genuine assholes. I don’t know why people can’t simply skip over comments/commenters they don’t like. I feel the whole pie thing simply provides a bullying permission structure that permits pile-ons and in/out group behaviors.

    The vitriol and ad hominem attacks of late have been a genuine shame and a real impediment to years of thoughtful discussion once welcomed here. Oh well….

  346. 346.

    Spanish Moss

    @BellyCat:

    Another great comment. I have been struggling with the tone and vitriol as well. I think that personal insults and cursing at people have no place in a civilized discussion, but them’s the rules here and I accept them. I am not going to pie anyone. I think I dislike the discussion of pie-ing and threats of pie-ing even more than the (sometimes but not always) offensive remarks that trigger the pie-talk.

  347. 347.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Quinerly:

    Second, most shocking is this pie filter bullshit. I think it is one of the most childish of all things on a forum where everyone is supposed to be an adult. I guess it is to protect people who don’t want to hear any dissent.

    I’m sure there are a few who use it like that.

    But over the past few weeks, you may have noticed, the same things kept being said over and over and over again.  After I’ve seen the same stupid thing being said for the twentieth time by a specific poster, I’m gonna pie that person so I don’t have to read those identical thoughts another twenty times.  Hell, I don’t like to hear myself say the same thing over and over again.  So it wasn’t about protecting myself from differing ideas.  It wasn’t like they were coming up with new arguments.

    Also, there were outsiders coming in just to threadshit and stir up trouble.  They were easy to identify, and I pied them pretty fast.

  348. 348.

    Quinerly

    @BellyCat: want to know a secret? Don’t tell anyone.😉

    The behavior of about 6-8 long time commenters here turned me so off of Biden starting about a week after the debate. Cultist, insulting, obnoxious, know it alls behind nyms acting out to anyone who didn’t agree with their “expertise.” I think those commenters had a lot to do in my final decision about 10 days ago.  I trust Schiff et all more than this crew. Hell, I trust Clooney more. I feel like the final chapter to this hasn’t been written yet. I do know that there are people who know and have seen a lot more of Biden behind the scenes than a random commenter on an obscure blog. I also know  Schiff has more to lose under a Trump Adm than just about anyone. His asking for Biden to step aside really got me thinking. And I didn’t try to concoct some grand conspiracy. He didn’t have to say anything. He will cruise in to his Senate office and be there as long as he wants. He could have sat on the sidelines and kept his mouth shut. He didn’t and I feel like he had a good reason for speaking up.

    Biden is a seasoned politician. He saw the writing on the wall.

    Typing on tiny keyboard…thoughts don’t flow with hunt and peck. Plus, dirty hands.

    Hang in there.

  350. 350.

    Quinerly

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Perception is a funny thing. I saw mostly the same 4-8 pro Biden staying in commenters being rude and obnoxious saying the same thing over and over. Dismissing well thought out arguments and data. Attacking solid Democrats that they once adored. Suddenly becoming experts on donors and how to run political campaigns.

    When the final chapter is written and if we happen to learn Obama thought Biden should step aside, how will these commenters feel? I really want to read those comments if and when that goes down. I won’t hold my breath for apologies for their piss poor, out of control behaviors, though.

  352. 352.

    TooManyJens

    @different-church-lady:

    This place was the only place where some people figured out you publicly support the nominee right up until he’s not the nominee anymore.

    This is it exactly. The number of people who were OK with weeks of constant rumors, leaks, and public shots at the (then-) candidate was fucking wild. Maybe he needed to go and maybe he didn’t but the way the party went about it was an absolute disgrace.

    [The ageism and ableism were disgusting too. Not everyone engaged in them but the people who kept saying shit like “he’s senile” and “he can’t walk down stairs!” (as though only the able-bodied are qualified to be President) should be ashamed of themselves.]

    But now it’s done and this is the reality we’re living in. At least the party seems to be actually coalescing around Harris, thank fuck. Let’s win this thing.

  355. 355.

    Quinerly

    @SFAW: just seeing this. JoJo las Orejas is great. Will be 5 in Oct. My little crippled Covid Times Puppy isn’t a puppy anymore.

    Miss Poco. Both very different dogs. Spoiled NM puppy vs tough street dog taken off the mean streets of North St. Louis. In some ways they aren’t even the same species.

    Thanks for asking.

  356. 356.

    EarthWindFire

    @Quinerly: For what it is worth, in my day to day encounters, BJ seems to be the only place that thought Joe should stay in. I have not talked to one person since that debate that thought he should stay in

    Guess where you stand depends a lot on where you sit. I live in a blue area of a purple state. Outside of BJ, I could count the number of dump Biden democrats I heard from on three fingers. Two of them were 30-somethings who immediately pivoted to “Kamala is a cop” yesterday. Probably why I’m not so reassured by the Kamala can win and it’s not 2016 talk.

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