I’ve been thinking a lot about anger these days. My own, others, why everyone is so angry, etc.
I know it’s hard to convince people, but I am really not an angry person at my core. I’m just not. I get mad about something and I quickly forgive or forget or both, and I guess I am just good at adjusting to the new reality of things. I’ve always been able to say “ok I guess this is what we are doing now” and adjust. I may hate it. And I fight it and avoid it when possible. But I come to terms with it.
I forget where but a while back I read someone talking about how one of the few things you can control in life is how you feel about things. I can choose to remain mad about things or move on to better uses of my energy. And so I do. And I don’t let the shitty things other people do change that- I think when people are being shitty it reflects on them, not me, and I move on. I also forgive people probably far more often than I should, because people are complicated and when I say I am sorry I mean it and I just assume other people do, too.
And I know this is a hard sell, because I can seem angry and sometimes am angry, but I don’t think of myself as angry person.
Which is one of the reasons I really do not understand the 40-60+ white male mindset of the Trump worshipping MAGA set. A buddy of mine from the Army/college years texted me today and asked “So you gonna vote for Harris?” to which I replied “I will vote for a sentient tire fire if it is running against Trump and will enthusiastically vote for Harris.”
His response was “Really? A California liberal?” To which I responded- “Yes, a California liberal. Have you ever been to California? It’s really fucking nice.”
And I really do not get what they all are so fucking mad about. This friend is a guy who was born into moderate wealth, got a great fucking taxpayer funded education, spent some time in the military, is now a doctor with three healthy kids and a healthy wife and a nice house and a lot of disposable income and he is fucking furious. Just hates where the country is going. And he has it fucking great. And yes, he worked his ass off. But he has a life right now that is better than 99.9% of all the people whoever existed in the history of our planet. The country is the richest and the safest it has ever been. We are surrounded by every day things in our house that would be considered miracles even 50 years ago. And they are all fucking furious. “OH MY GOD THE LIBERALS WANT TO USE SOLAR HYDRO AND WIND INSTEAD OF DIGGING UP COAL AND POLLUTING THE PLACE AND GIVING PEOPLE BLACK LUNG HELP ME I AM SO REPRESSED.”
And it’s so bad here- you over hear guys my age and younger bitching about this thing the Democrats did and that thing the Democrats want and the liberals this and the liberals that. WV has a Republican governor, sos, ag, 89 out of the 100 delegates are republican and 30 of the 34 senators are Republicans. And they’ve run it for 15 years. If you’re mad about shit, it’s not the Democrats to blame.
I don’t get it.
There’s a lot of anger here. More so than I have seen since the Hillary/Obama rift. I’ve seen people who have been here since I was a right wing shithead comment on other blogs that today was the day they stopped coming here. And that’s sad.
I know I am partially to blame. When I am stressed out or freaking out I tend to speak hastily and try to be humorous and then reliably revert to a risk avoidant pose and try to react the way I was trained (or in this case as the DNC had planned). Biden is President, we voted on it just a few months ago, we go to the convention, and if changes are to be made they will be made but we will follow the plan. And that’s just how my mind works. In my world, you plan ahead for the big shit so when you need it you have it there and then you live the rest of your life. We have a President, we have a nominee, we have a line of succession, and we go with that. Especially since the stakes are so high.
And because I am stubborn as a mule, that’s how I saw things. Anything else was just insane “yer just making shit up as you go.” In my regression to my core, I was flippant and didn’t listen to the real concerns and fear that others had about him remaining in, and I said snide and obnoxious things that didn’t seem that way to me but upon reflection were and are. And I’m sorry for that.
Likewise, a lot of people are taking the opportunity to be real assholes in the comments to each other, and right now, there is REALLY NO FUCKING NEED for that. There’s no need to gloat, or to poke people or try to fuck with them when they are done. People are upset, many for the same reasons, many for their own, but people are upset and need some space. Give it to them. We don’t all need to be all RAA RAA 100% on board with Kamala and what happened to Biden right now. There is plenty of time to start to like the new candidate organically and the Republicans will help us all along the path to that by being awful fucking people on the daily.
And try to remember, as I often don’t, that other people’s thoughts and feelings are as valid and strongly held as your own. And just try to be kind to someone. Try it tonight. Say something nice to someone else in the comments for a change.
It’s a hard balancing act, this blog. I, well, we, want it to be a safe thoughtful place for people to speak out, but we also don’t want people just stirring up shit. We want it to be loud and raucous but we want it to be a safe space. We want it to be a place where you can talk about and vent about divisive and controversial issues, but how do do that with toxic things like Israel/Palestine or Russia/Ukraine or the election or a lot of the stuff going on. There are so many stakeholders with legit concerns that are diametrically opposed to decent people on the other side who also have reasonable beliefs. Except the pro-russia crowd. Fuck them sideways. It’s fucking hard to do all that, and people decide they’ve had enough and move on.
I hate that, but I don’t know what to do. There are literally hundreds of people I wish still commented her and would come back, but I have no control over it and people are on to different things. If there were a way to change things so everyone was happy and I would never have done anything to drive people away, I would. But I don’t know what to do.
And we’re lucky to have the commitment of people like Anne Laurie and Watergirl and well all of you. The blog is nothing without all the front pagers and commenters. We’ve done so many amazing things with supporting each other to memorializing one another and animal rescue and fundraising and all the other stuff, so I can say it honestly hurts and makes me sad to read or hear someone say they’re done with it here. I wish they would come back.
I’ll try to be better. I hope you do to, or at the very least stick around to tell me how shitty I am at being better.
Splitting Image
I’m happy to confine my anger to reiterating that the New York Times must be destroyed.
rikyrah
I love this place.
Even when it gets out of control.
I hope that people don’t leave.
I’m still bitter.
But, we gotta save democracy in America.
rikyrah
Scott Dworkin (@funder) posted at 6:00 PM on Mon, Jul 22, 2024:
BREAKING: Kamala Harris secures endorsements from labor unions AFL-CIO, AFSCME, ATU, AFT, CWA, Stage Employees, IBEW, IUPAT, SEIU, United Farm Workers, UFCW #UnionsForAll
(https://x.com/funder/status/1815522363380740380?t=P9C3FjLudFe7wLVj9BNlaQ&s=03)
rikyrah
Kamala’s Wins (@harris_wins) posted at 8:18 PM on Mon, Jul 22, 2024:
BREAKING: Kamala Harris has officially secured the required delegates to become the Democratic nominee for President. Let’s go.
(https://x.com/harris_wins/status/1815556943299166391?t=PUROS92h4WNGZ4D0k_SIzA&s=03)
Wvng
John, that is the longest and most heartfelt post you’ve done in years. I hope people read it and come home.
japa21
Thank you John.
The biggest problem is people on both sides who think they know what the right answer is and therefore whoever disagrees with them is an idiot. Nobody knows anything as to how this is going to play out.
rikyrah
Federico Chispas (@dfchispas) posted at 8:07 PM on Mon, Jul 22, 2024:
Bakari Sellers weeping on the call, talking about VP Kamala being one of the first people who reached out to him when he almost lost his wife and daughter in childbirth #WinWithBlackMen
(https://x.com/dfchispas/status/1815554306726101111?t=qihp_yWxsCfawSOe3MNJhg&s=03)
thruppence
I feel like one of the more innocuous folks around here, but even I’ve rubbed people the wrong way. I am a pretty considerate driver, but sometime I might cut somebody off. I’m sorry! We’re all just trying to get where we’re trying to go.
Soprano2
Thanks for this post, John. I’ve thought a lot about anger since Covid happened. It seems like so many people are angry about so many things. I think when rapid change happens a lot of people get scared and lash out in anger. They want things to stay comfortable for them, never thinking about how that state of affairs is terribly uncomfortable for other people.
As for R’s being angry even though they are in charge, one of the candidates for governor here (I think it was Jay Ashcroft) wrote an op-ed that literally said Republicans have been in charge in this state for 20 years and haven’t fixed things so you should elect me (a Republican) and I’ll fix them! If you listen to their ads they’re all going to fix the border and deport “illegals”. That has nothing to do with being governor, but they’re all running on it.
BretH
No worthy response except thank you John, thank you Watergirl, thank you all. I still love it here, use the filter sparingly, comment even more sparingly but visit every single day.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Thank you UncleEbeneezer for greatly increasing my BJ clip file. ;)
Mike in NC
Modern American Gutter Politics, where everybody is animated by anger and hatred, was launched by Newt Gingrich and perfected by Donald Trump.
Tehanu
@rikyrah: what you said, 100%. John Cole is a treasure.
Soprano2
@japa21: There’s a lot of fear and uncertainty because NO ONE knows for sure what the magic formula is to defeat TCFG.
CaseyL
John, this is a community like no other I have ever been part of, and that is something you can and should be proud of forever.
Hopefully we’ll settle down soon.
Even those of us who were…not happy… with the way things went down (or seemed to go down) are 1000% delighted to see Harris as our standard bearer, 1000% delighted at her strong start, and 1000% committed to electing her in November. (And electing as many Congressional Democrats as we can, so we can Get. Shit. Done.)
The one thing I feared above all else was that the Democratic Party would rip itself apart. That has not happened and looks like it will not happen.
And there is no denying the dynamic has undergone a 180-degree shift – not just since the debate, but even before then. The enthusiasm, energy, and hopefulness are tonics to my ragged cynical self.
guachi
I was begging anyone with power to make a post like this when the abuse was being served up by the Biden Stay group with profanity, insults, and orders to “sit down, shut up, and get in line”.
The Biden Withdraw movement didn’t start with the elites or the donors. It came from Democrats saying for months and months they wanted Biden not to run.
The money pouring in shows just how much Democrats wanted this. Democrats. Wanted. This. 880,000 donors to Harris in one day. There will be no convention fight. There will be no ballot access challenges. Next time something like this happens please listen to what DEMOCRATS are actually saying and don’t tell them to “sit down, shut the fuck up, and get in line”.
rikyrah
👑 Mr. Weeks 👑 (@WonderKing82) posted at 8:48 PM on Mon, Jul 22, 2024:
Vice President Kamala Harris is miles ahead of the media and Republicans. They’re scrambling. And she’s not giving them an opportunity to get any negativity in. The party is unified & all it took was 24 hours. Oh, she’s ready.
President Biden executed this shit so magnificently.
(https://x.com/WonderKing82/status/1815564735888134151?t=8cJC_Hg6QiYZa0IgzbumBg&s=03)
Splitting Image
I just want to say as well that, even if this place isn’t perfect, I’ve gotten a lot of information here that would have been hard to come by if it hadn’t. Adam’s posts on Ukraine and Anne’s posts on COVID, for example. This alone makes coming here worthwhile.
Tempers do flare up occasionally, but this is inevitable when people have strong feelings about things. Politics ain’t beanbag. But there is a difference between being discouraged by last month’s debate (and saying so) on the one hand, and suggesting that the Democrats ought to nominate Mitt Romney on the other.
I’ll probably stick around until someone here does suggest nominating Romney.
Chet Murthy
@Soprano2: For me, at least, this is the heart of it. If the polling starts to show that White America accepts VP Harris (or at least doesn’t wildly reject her), then I’ll stop feeling scared shitless. I’m OK with throwing over Joe, if it improves our chances of winning in November. Sure, I’ll grieve, but winning is the only thing. Seeing the Dems in array behind her is great, but it doesn’t address that fear.
Dangerman
They are mad because they are told to be mad. Over and over and over again. In the same tone of voice on THAT TV station that shall not be named. It’s amazing, really; all yelling, all the time.
I don’t care about sentience. I’d vote for a well formed dogturd before voting for Trump. Well formed only. None of that “ohmyGod” shit. I’d have to sithtat one out.
oldster
@guachi:
I’m with you on substance, and I got chewed out too, but for tonight and for this post I wish you’d drop this grudge.
Just let it go, and be kind, like our host suggested. We can all get along together, better than we have done of late
And to follow the example of Splitting Image up above, let me say how much I have learned from Adam’s posts on Ukraine, and how much I have laughed at posts by Betty. This blog has given me a lot.
Slightly_peeved
I’m happy to keep lurking and occasionally posting here because even if I disagree with the FPers, I believe them and most of the commenters are posting in good faith. Some aren’t, but there’s the pie filter for that.
I’m no longer reading LGM because it turns out most of the FPers there have no compunction posting in bad faith and bullying the commenters. It’s not about their position; it’s about how they treated the commentariat.
given how much of my free time is sucked up with here and reddit, I can never blame anyone for needing to take a step back.
Zelma
Thank you for that post, John. And thank you IvanX too.
I have been sort of sad the last week or so about how angry some folks seemed to get with those who disagreed with them. I think both the pro-Joe and the go-Joe had legitimate arguments. And we’ll never know who was right! If Kamala wins that doesn’t mean that Joe would have lost and if she loses, it doesn’t mean Joe would have won.
I don’t comment much but I’ve been here since around 2007 and I love Balloon Juice. I attribute my failure to comment to the fact that I’m the kind of person who copy edits her instant messages. Lack of spontaneity. Also, I feel that everything should be footnoted.
I am glad to see that most people have concluded that the most important thing is to defeat Trump. I hope that those who have left will return. This is a special place.
Poe Larity
We should always respect everyone else’s right to be wrong here.
No, California is a dystopian hellscape and please stop encouraging the hoardes who keep moving back and harshing my mellows. I had to wait 3 minutes for my latte last week.
Betty Cracker
John, one thing I’ve always admired about you is that you aren’t a grudge carrier or score settler. Those are truly stellar qualities. I notice them because too often I have the opposite impulse when someone pisses me off.
We all fuck up and fly off the handle from time to time because we’re human. But what we choose to do next matters. You provide a great example of how to handle that, which may be one reason this blog works as well as it does.
Auntie Beak
“I think when people are being shitty it reflects on them, not me, and I move on.”
Words to live by, thank you, John. Can’t control other people, can only control myself.
Occasional Reader
I have been reading this blog for over 20 years. I haven’t commented probably since 2008. People need to get over their shit and realize that honest disagreement is ok. Healthy, even.
bbleh
Passion is one thing, circular firing-squads are another. The latter is why I don’t hang out at LGM these days, despite the community there being smart and informed.
If you gotta get angry, get angry at the MAGAts. Volunteer! There are LOTS of opportunities — at home, in person, whatever. THAT’s how we’re gonna win! Turn the emotion into action! “Fiiiiight!!!”
George
@rikyrah:
Twenty four hours. Think about that. Harris has the delegates. She has endorsements of major unions. She has the endorsements of a majority of Democratic congresspeople and senators. She has raised, what, nearly $100 million. In 24 hours.
The more I see how things are playing out, the more I realize it all is according to plan. Can you imagine the protracted chaos in the GOP if Trump dropped from the race? They would be gnawing on the backs of each other’s necks until Halloween.
Michael Bersin
Yeah, but when the color scheme was changed to orange the whole place just went to shit.
Oh, wait…
VFX Lurker
Thank you, John.
Slightly_peeved
@guachi:
you accused me of being a liar for pointing out a couple of days ago that few if no people at that time who had asked Biden to step down had endorsed Kamala. A contention I immediately provided a plethora of cites for. I received no apology, so have no time for you complaining about incivility.
WaterGirl
@guachi: Not helpful. I think you missed the point.
khead
Welcome to the great mystery of my life too. Not snarking at you. I genuinely do not get the people – and I unfortunately know a bunch – who fit the description in that paragraph. And don’t dare try to tell them how GOOD things are in the world. They’re all victims.
hells littlest angel
Anger is a burden I have grown too lazy to carry any more. All those people — okay, almost all those people — who have been ragging on Joe Biden for the last three weeks? I just can’t be arsed to hold a grudge. It’s too much work, and there’s too much pleasure to be had in being optimistic for the future.
Quinerly
@rikyrah: 💜
WaterGirl
@rikyrah:
Yes, we do.
Quinerly
@guachi: 👍
Cheez Whiz
You have to remember that what is driving everybody is Fear. Existential Fear. We’ve been pounded for a year that a Trump win is the End of Democracy, the End of America. And its pretty true! It would be a long, dark, ugly night with no idea if/when the sun might rise. That kind of Fear scares people at a sitting-around-the-campfire-listening-to-animals-howl-and-crash-in-the-night level. People lash out and act out. They should know better, but knowing isn’t on the table.
Trump supporters are driven by Fear too. The resentment is just an outward shell for projecting Fear. The whole fear of being labeled racist by people that they disdain is kind of weird. Why do they care what people they regard as weak an delusional think? I don’t have a theory formthat, and I haven’t seen anyone else take a swing.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Sometimes we need to take a step back and look at the big picture. Something everyone who loves Biden might just consider. That guy is going to a major figure in the history of our country. He is the American Cincinnatus, first he gave up a comfortable retirement and then he gave up his own ambition for the country.
Why do you think Trump is so horrified about this? That is the role that pathetic, petty little man so desperately yearns for, and even if Trump makes himself dictator, well the legend of Smiling Joe will be a light in that darkness, and there is nothing Trump can do about it.
rikyrah
This was a beautiful tribute to President JoeyB 🥺🥺
https://x.com/rainnyseattle/status/1815488390328201532?t=-Rh7rrUtEKr5IH6UFwFyWw&s=19
Jusrin
Been visiting since 2004, John. You are more self aware than most bloggers and it makes for a nice experience. I will be visiting here more often.
Also, LGM banned me for saying unpleasant things about their front pagers. So I’m in need of a new place.
kmax
I’ve been here since about 2006, can’t imagine life without this place.
Like John, I had a burst of anger, but have gotten over it.
It is what it is. Time to move on and win.
You know what? Once I accepted it I started feeling a lot more positive about Harris and our chances.
Back to lurking.
piratedan
speaking to anger, I have to admit during the Trump years I started medicating because I was so angry all the time.
Republicans simply make me mad. Their policies about how people should be treated and what rights that they have and how they twist the system and use our best nature against us. Then to listen to what people say and have that twisted and chopped to remove context or imply the opposite of what was said infuriates me. So I’m not a fan of what the media does and the framing of what is exactly news and how to interpret it.
Here is the place where we share our dark snark and fears and anger and its still a place where you can meet people from all over and share our passions and continue to find common cause, even if the methodologies and everyone in the family doesn’t always do things exactly the way that we want them.
Plus there are pets pics, fundraising for good causes and people who care, passionately.
3Sice
Fear’s a dangerous thing
It can turn your heart black you can trust
It’ll take your God filled soul
Fill it with devils and dust…
SteveinPHX
Thanks John – I just stayed “ducked” under flying bullets yesterday. Nobody really wins. I appreciate the passion, but I can’t get in there heaving opprobrium. I would vote for a dead earthworm in the road over any Rethuglican.
I’ve been hanging around here for a couple years now and stay amazed at all of these jackals. Jes’ wow!
You’re doin’ good. Keep it up.
Jess
I think anger is the only thinking keeping many of us from jumping off a bridge. These are dismaying times, and even if (when!) we kick Trump’s butt in November, there are still all the MAGA morons, QAnon, anti-vaxxers, etc. to deal with. It’s hard to feel good about our fellow humans after all the ugly shit we’ve seen over the past 24 years. I grew up naively thinking we were past all that. But here we are, as foolish and hateful as we’ve ever been.
On the other hand, never before in history have the people with vision had such freedom and opportunities to explore new ideas and communicate them to others. Never before have like-minded people been able to come together so easily and promote change (for better or worse). That’s got to count for something. We are in a position to do great things; let’s not forget that. Let’s also be aware that we have so much more information, too much really, and it’s overwhelming and horrifying at times. We’re still adjusting to that, and it’s driven everybody a bit mad, I think. I don’t think we’re doomed, but I do think this age we’re living in is a challenging one, to say the least. Every day I’m reminding myself to let go of trying to control everyone else, and just focus on what constructive actions I can take.
rikyrah
👑 Mr. Weeks 👑 (@WonderKing82) posted at 9:12 PM on Mon, Jul 22, 2024:
Republicans spent millions on producing President Biden attack plus merchandise.. TV, radio, social media ads, only to have to spend double the money to catch up to Vice President Kamala Harris. This is our election to win.. if we vote. President Biden still has good sense yall.
(https://x.com/WonderKing82/status/1815570712028918221?t=s_ANNxdQlpSbUfTRh_r0Cg&s=03)
Bill Arnold
@WaterGirl:
I need Mr. Bemused Senior’s email address to send him a text file of “bemused senior”‘s posts on this site. They asked a few nights ago. You could let me know at my registered email address. (or my nym (lower cased, space to dot) @ gmail com.), or I could send to you and you could forward, or whatever.
randy khan
The one thing I know about Cole is that he always is acting in good faith. Okay, that’s one of two things. The other is that when he sees he’s made a mistake (sometimes even when he’s wrong about that) he owns up.
Personally, I understand the shock and horror a lot of people felt about Biden dropping out and the swiftness of the transition to Harris. I spent the time since the debate in a kind of weird suspension – people may have seen me saying that I didn’t know what Biden should do, and that was real. There was too much I didn’t know, particularly including how a transition would work.
Regardless, my heart sank when I saw Biden’s announcement that he was dropping out of the race. It felt wrong in a lot of ways, and I was still worried about what would come next. The Harris endorsement and, let’s be frank, the extremely un-Democrat efficiency of consolidating the nomination has made me feel better about prospects in the fall. which has helped a bit.
But I still feel like one questionable decision (to schedule an early debate, although I understand the thinking) and one bad night did not necessarily justify what happened. There were people with their knives whetted and at hand waiting for a slip, and they acted without remorse or even a care about the damage they were doing. That makes me angry.
None of that makes me angry with people here who, after the debate and over the last three weeks, argued either for or against Biden dropping out. Or, for that matter, the people over at LGM, although it did bring out a particularly self-righteous strain in some of the front-pagers there. (This is not exactly something nobody knew about before, though.)
PDXBob
I agree with you John, I’ll vote for a moldy ham sandwich over Trump. His only policy is revenge against those he perceived to have wronged him. He too addle-brained, or stupid to realize he’s being manipulated by the theocrats and billionaire class to create a theocratic autocracy.
Biden wasn’t my first choice for 2020, but he’s done a hell of job.
My only gripe with Harris, is she’s been mostly invisible, as far as I tell. I can’t think of any policy she helped push through, or major speech she’s made. Also, the VP should be the attack person, and for the last several months, it’s been silence, again as for as I can tell.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Dude! Yes! You east coaster stay put. Nothing to see here in California. Avocados are scary! Yes, we have avocados, it’s hopeless, stay away.
kmax
@kmax: lost the edit window
Just wanted to add that I find liberal use of the pie filter helps keep my temper down.
Roberto el oso
Dear Mr Cole, at your worst you remain something to aspire to. Thank you.
Old Dan and Little Ann
I invented a new game called silent tennis. It’s like regular tennis but without the racket.
Suzanne
The worst part of the last few weeks has been seeing people say that someone insulted someone and so they left. Or saying that they don’t know if they can stand to stay. Or straight-up telling people to leave or attempt to shame someone into apologizing. We can mix it up — FSM knows I have and I will continue — but that shit is censorious.
Joy in FL
Thank you, John and pretty much every commenter here.
This place is a refuge and it matters to a lot of us.
Just want to say thanks for the depth and variety of this space.
dc
I donated immediately because I was so angry that Biden got pushed out (even if it turns out he had made the decision a few weeks ago and was waiting for the best moment for the news cycle for Harris and the country) and how the media and the elected Dems and famous and rich Dem donors were treating Biden and us (all Dem voters) like crap in all the ways we already know too well. Many of the donations that came right when Biden endorsed Harris were a tribute to Biden and a deeply felt need to make a united push and demonstration to the Dem donors and big wigs that only Kamala Harris was acceptable, we don’t want more chaos, we don’t care about your clicks at your “news” sites, we want to beat Trump and save this nation from fascism clothed in an ill fitting suit, orange skin and a deranged voice. I did not donate to Harris because I was happy Biden was out and I guarantee you that like me, millions of small donations. They were saying: unity and don’t mess with us any more with your plans for survivor style primaries or great white Dems coming to the rescue. Harris is our leader in this fight now and we will not accept anyone else. We voted for her too.
Since Biden announced he was withdrawing his candidacy and then endorsing Harris, I have been terrified, sad, angry, excited, relieved, and stressed out and continue to feel all those emotions by turns and even at the same time. I expect this is a shared experience. Maybe that’s why even in a post asking for peace and understanding, there is still sniping and whining. I won’t add to it.
Right now, there is work to do. We have a war to win.
Rose Weiss
I mostly lurk but this place has been my online home for years now, since I fled DK as a refugee of the Obama/Clinton wars. The constant vitriol was too much for me, but here I found humor and positive action mixed with normal occasional grumpiness. I still read here every day no matter who is mad at who. This election is too important to screw up because of personal disagreements.
Eunicecycle
@rikyrah: beautiful. That was me yesterday; I had to get a good cry in. It had nothing to do with Kamala.
hitchhiker
I still remember the exact moment that someone in a treasured online community typed something mean at me. I was very much a grown-ass adult, with plenty of experience in the Serious Fucking Problem department — and that snotty little remark just bit me in the face. I still have the scar.
My face got hot, and I was breathing fast, the whole thing … right there at my daughter’s desk, where I was using the family computer. Remember when we had family computers? That’s how long ago this was.
Anyway, I’m saying this to remind people that it fucking hurts to be sneered at, especially if it happens in a place you’re used to thinking of as home.
Also, hey. When I was teaching high school math, I kept a little sign at the edge of my blackboard that said, “What’s obvious to you is obvious to you.” It was there to remind me that my seeing something clearly didn’t mean shit; other people have things that they see clearly that are opaque as fuck to me. I am not you.
I think this is why we all like it so much when we do manage to be “like-minded,” even for a little while. Same with watching shows and knowing that the person who made this story understands things the same way I do. It’s a way to not be lonely.
And that’s why it’s so troubling when your favorite not-lonely space turns into you’re-an-asshole space. I stayed dead away from everything for the last 3 or 4 weeks, because it was obvious (!!) to me that something hard was going to happen, and that until it did, things were going to be even crazier and scarier than usual. I’m glad I missed the drama.
WaterGirl
@Jusrin:
That made me laugh. Welcome!
Grumpy Old Railroader
John, that is just part of being old and grumpy. The smallest shit just pisses you off and then you get over it and move on. And holler at those kids to get off my lawn, will ya?
dc
And thank you, John Cole and all the front pagers for making this blog into a community.
WaterGirl
@Bill Arnold: I will send him your email, and you his, right now. He let me know that you would likely be contacting me. So we’re all good.
MMM
Refund? Refund?!
Albatrossity
Absolutely on point. Anger is the oxygen that the other side needs. And places like TFNYT use it to drive clicks and ads. BJ is a better place, and we are lucky to have it. Thanks, JC
oldster
When searching for causes of the anger, it’s worth attributing a bit of it to our experience during the COVID years. That was weird and traumatic and then it was over, kinda. It turned everything upside down and it killed some people you knew and it inconvenienced you a lot and then suddenly we were just supposed to go about our business as though nothing happened. It was a miraculous triumph of RNA research and it turned into a nationwide attack on scientists. It was an opportunity for cooperation and it was exploited to divide us even more deeply.
I can’t explain all of the anger. But at least a little bit is the result of PTSD from the entire goddamned COVID experience.
wonkie
“And I really do not get what they all are so fucking mad about. This friend is a guy who was born into moderate wealth, got a great fucking taxpayer funded education, spent some time in the military, is now a doctor with three healthy kids and a healthy wife and a nice house and a lot of disposable income and he is fucking furious. Just hates where the country is going. And he has it fucking great. ”
Most MAGGOTs have it reasonably good if not great. They are elitists who have the priviliege of being angry about imaginary problems. People with real problems worry about real problems. Trump’s appeal is to those who have enough priviliege to get bent out of shape about nonsense.
It’s a particular kind of nonsense . It’s nonsense that says, “People unlike me exist and I resent the hell out of having to respect them or share this nation with them or share power and resources with them America is for ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!”
So that’s what ails your guy. He’s selfish and privileged. Anger is ego-stroking and self-reinforcing to him he gets to feel superior, and he gets to be upset without actually experiencing any real harm. Spoiled brat.
Ohio Mom
@Zelma: I think you should comment more, it will get easier. I was scared and uncomfortable the first few times I dared to comment. How many years ago was that? Rosie had just jumped into Cole’s car.
You are right about that it will never be possible to know if Harris wins, that Biden also would have won, or lost, and the opposite set of circumstances are also unknowable.
It’s funny, I just had a conversation last week with a cousin about a long-ago family squabble. We concluded that we can never know if Relative X had only done this, that Relative Y wouldn’t have done that. As Voltaire observed, Doubt is uncomfortable but certainty is ridiculous.
I like to think that the angry commentators were motivated by deeply caring, combined with panic. I didn’t waste any energy on them.
I am sorry to hear others were hurt and/or offended. Overall, I find this place one of the most informed, pragmatic and levelheaded spots on the internet (the other is Josh Marshall’s Twitter and site).
ArchTeryx
@Jusrin: No great loss there. I spent 20 years in academia, and more than half the front pagers are the absolute worst ivory tower tenured professor types that know better than anyone else, thank you. About everything. Most of the rest are doomers. Cheryl Rofer was the only person there that is halfway bearable – and she started here on Balloon Juice!
MomSense
I just wrote and deleted a really long comment. I don’t know what I will do about this place. I just don’t know. I’m not in a forgiving place this time.
Betty Cracker
@George:
Okay, that made me laugh. Thanks! ;-)
Ohio Mom
@Occasional Reader: I also invite you to take up commenting again.
No One of Consequence
Per an earlier threads’ commenter suggesting I play with turning the filter on/off … I did on this thread. Wasn’t worth the clicking to undo and re-establish. Thank you for the suggestion, but the experiment only reinforced my original inclinations to remove useless shit from the funnel. Again, please keep talking you fantastic little commenters you. You’ve NEARLY got me convinced you were right all along and have intellects to indeed match the size of your egos. DO GO ON.
Sorry John, you’re just going to have to settle with Anger. Seething anger. For my side, I will do my damndest not to let it devolve into Spite. Cuz I’m feeling REALLY fucking spiteful right about now. I’d set about some serious sabotage if I wasn’t on the same goddamn boat as the rest of these fuckers.
-NOoC
Darkrose
The xkcd guy has things to say about Venn diagrams, and MVP Harris.
ArchTeryx
@MomSense: I hope you don’t go. You’re one of the few here that’s been an unflagging supporter of me since I first delurked after Trump’s first election. And my worst fears came within a single vote of coming true. Not for that one vote, I would not be here today. I’d be in a pauper’s grave.
Now I face nearly that same situation again, and what happens? I get sealioned by an ableist asshole. Same thing I faced nearly every day of my life.
But I don’t have to listen to him. The pie filter did me a world of good. I’d rather you pie half the people here until it calms down, than just leave. I’m not in a particularly forgiving mood, either. Being just as subject to a lifetime of bigotry as many POCs will make someone pretty salty when they get sealioned. But assholes gonna asshole. Doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy seeing you here and reading your comments. Don’t go. Enough people have abandoned me in the last 24 hours.
Martin
In my experience anger is usually a way to manage fear. I think this is true for a lot of Republicans, for instance.
I think a lot of the anger from the folks entertaining the idea of a change in nominee came from a fear that this election was getting away from us. And I think a lot of the anger from the other contingent came from the same place, they too felt this was getting away from us, and shaking things up could only make things worse. Putting aside the debate, we had USSC giving Trump his get out of jail free card, we had Judge Cannon doing her part, we got further damage to the administrative state. There wasn’t a lot to hang your hopes on, for anyone. I think everyone felt this was slipping out of control. And there are no guarantees how to fix that. Is Biden the best path through? Maybe! Is Harris? Maybe! Does it matter and we just need a shakeup to re-engage voters? Perhaps! There are no guarantees, so nobody can provide any assurances for their point of view. This is real seat of the pants stuff, and the stakes here are extremely high. Yeah, there’s a lot of fear all around, and nobody is taking well the idea to add uncertainty to that.
In my job I did a stretch making admissions decisions, doing the modeling, etc. I’m going to admit 17,000 students for 4,000 seats and I need to hit 100+ different criteria within 1% or so. This is high stakes stuff, with almost no margin for error and basically no net. You can build models, run a stupid amount of data and look at the result. Is it right? Who the fuck knows – every one of those 17,000 students makes their own decisions for their own reasons, and I can only predict it so far. But it worked really well almost all the time. And you could hang my family over a pit of lava and demand that I explain exactly how it worked, and I couldn’t tell you. There were a LOT of vibes in there, which is how I describe things that my brain analytically understands but can’t get through the filter of language for me. Like, I KNOW it’ll work, but I can’t give you a reason why I know that.
Politics is a LOT of that, because it’s the same basic idea. Are all of these people going to receive your message, take time out of their day and vote for you? You can do a lot of analytical work, but there’s a lot of vibes there as well. Harris has raised $100M in small dollar donations in 36 hours. She’s gotten tens of thousands of volunteers in zoom calls. Now, you can say ‘well, that’s evidence that Biden was a bad candidate’ and I would argue that’s the wrong conclusion to draw. You can say ‘Democrats got knocked out of their complacency by this dramatic event and got the fuck to work’ and I think that might be a bit more accurate. I can’t give an analytical answer to this moment, but I have some vibes. They may be all wrong, but it’s what I got.
In chess each piece generally counters itself. That is, a rook counters rook because they move along the same rank and file. It’s hard to gain an advantage in a rook v rook encounter, but a bishop moves diagonally – it can attack a rook without that rook attacking the bishop – and vice/versa. Attacking pieces with matching pieces tends to a stalemate, where attacking with a different piece opens up opportunities. I suspect that’s really the problem this election was having. Trump and Biden were too similar – not in terms of their visions for America which couldn’t be further apart, but the clash of older white establishment men meant that there was a real stalemate in terms of how to characterize the race, how to attack, and so on. Now, historically that hasn’t been a problem, that’s been the last 250 fucking years, but America is changing, and the Democratic Party doesn’t fight along those lines because the energy from the Democratic Party doesn’t come from older white establishment men (despite how many of them we do have in office). The energy comes particularly from women of color, but also the LGBTQ community, most immigrant communities, non-Christians, and young people. And they couldn’t move the pieces on the board in the manner they felt they needed to with Biden. There were a lot of attack angles on Trump you couldn’t make without at least nicking Biden, or worse, having them shoved back at us. That’s not a failing of Biden, it just means that it’s kind of a mismatch in this moment (I think the 2020 campaign was different in that is was country falling apart due to Covid vs guy with a half century of experience in government – like, we needed someone to grab the goddamn wheel, and there was nobody better for that than Biden). But that’s not the current moment, The current moment is a continuous attack on women and people of color and the LGBTQ community – the democratic base, and they want to fight back, but Biden is just the wrong piece on the board. He’s still a very powerful piece, but he stalemates against Trump. Harris, however, does not. She’s in almost every way the bishop to Trumps rook. She navigates the board completely differently. She offers freedom of movement simply due to who she is and how she contrasts to Trump. Does that mean she’ll win? Nope. But it means that she unlocks all of these voters, critical to winning elections because they know how to fight this fight and they want to fight this fight, and they don’t know how to fight it through the establishment white male, but they know how to fight it through a first generation black woman or someone from the LGBTQ community, etc.
It’s not that Biden is bad and Harris is good, its that Biden zigs and Harris zags, and Harris’ ability to zag is in this moment what unlocks the base, opens wallets, knocks on doors, and advances the message that the Democrats want to tell through a person like Harris, because she best reflects the nature of the crisis – not a global pandemic that the government is clueless to respond to like in 2020, but an attack on vulnerable groups for which she’s a natural messenger.
Is that the right view? Beats the fuck out of me. It’s just vibes. Something is happening in this moment that wasn’t happening before, and I don’t think that’s Biden’s fault, I think it’s just a matter of having the right pieces on the board to counter what the GOP have put up. For this reason, my sense is that Democrats should lean into the risk here and pick someone like Pete for VP, rather than chase the safe white male midwestern governor checkbox. Not that those guys aren’t great, but they don’t fit the moment. Pete fits it better. Is it risky? Sure as shit is. So was Obama. Again, there are no guarantees, but you have to embrace the uncertainty, and I think embracing it in a way that best allows the base to channel their needs is worth doing. Action is a better way to manage fear.
Genine
This is a virtual home. A much-needed refuge in all the madness.
Martin
@Poe Larity: If people are going to move to California, bring a house or two with you. It’s hands down the biggest problem we have.
No One of Consequence
@Rose Weiss:
I too am a former orange refugee. I got here during Bush the Lesser’s first term. It’s been a long, long road.
-NOoC
SpaceUnit
Part of my anger comes from thinking that a lot of the negativity and concern we’ve seen on this blog for the last month hasn’t been in good faith. I take it as given that rightwing and Russian trolls like to pose as trusted, normie members of an online community only to turn on their heels at some critical juncture and try to lead others into a wilderness of despair and divisiveness. I see it happening all over and I’m pretty damn sure it ain’t my imagination.
One of the Many Jens
Thanks, John.
It’s been extra jackaly, reflecting, I think, how much everyone here cares. We all want to protect this country, protect democracy, help prevent as much climate catastrophe as possible, and protect the vulnerable. No pressure!
Bill Arnold
@WaterGirl:
Thanks!
karen marie
This I do not understand. The country isn’t going anywhere. It’s still here, right where it’s been for the last 248 years.
The only thing that’s different now than it was 20 years ago is that more people are included in “all men are created equal.” The people who are pissed off about that are showing their complete asses.
You’re a better person than I am, John Cole, because I would have told that person to just fuck right off. His life isn’t harmed because someone he doesn’t know is treated fairly.
Betty Cracker
@MomSense: Do whatever you need to do for your own peace of mind, but please know many of us value your voice and would miss you if you go.
Tony G
@Splitting Image: Somewhat-off-topic but … Microsoft must be destroyed also. My son and his family, ostensibly flying to San Diego, have been stuck on a runway in Newark Airport for more than six hours now because of what the United website just calls “delays”. Apparently the Microsoft/Crowdstrike debacle-due-to-arrogant-incompetence still has airline flights (and God knows what else) screwed up all over the country. The big guys get paid and everybody lies.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Jusrin:
Congrats! Badge of Honor.
I left before LeMeow banned me for all the pro-developer, hyper-gentrification bullshit he peddled (I pushed back strenuously) as some progressive panacea when it fact its impact negatively was targeted at the base of the Democratic Party.
KatKapCC
Indeed it is. I mean…some of the inland areas are more like Western Alabama, but the rest is great :D
Fake Irishman
@rikyrah:
I love watching how your mood shifts with the twitter posts you embed. Been an interesting couple of days, huh?
Hope Peanut is well!
Villago Delenda Est
Keep your eyes on the prize: the termination of TCFFG/PAB’s political ambitions. Nothing else matters.
ArchTeryx
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Which pretty much sums up LGM in a nutshell. Ivory tower elitists that treat a lot of this shit like it’s a theoretical experiment rather than something that affects millions of people’s lives.
prostratedragon
Hear, hear, John!
Fake Irishman
@MomSense:
Do what you got to do, but you’re a part of the woodwork here for me and I’d miss your banter.
Also, the fact that you deleted a long comment you didn’t feel quite right posting is probably a sign of restraint and wisdom.
oldster
@Martin:
“Biden is just the wrong piece on the board. He’s still a very powerful piece, but he stalemates against Trump. Harris, however, does not. She’s in almost every way the bishop to Trumps rook. She navigates the board completely differently. She offers freedom of movement simply due to who she is and how she contrasts to Trump.”
Interesting way to look at it. Thanks.
BR
@Martin:
That’s a nice way of framing it. Matches my understanding of the moment as well.
I dunno if Pete is the right VP pick for the moment, but I agree that there’s no reason to go for a safe centrist like everyone is saying. (Though Pete always struck me as a bit centrist…)
dww44
@Splitting Image: I’m with you. Their role in the demise of Biden’s candidacy was so blatantly obvious and far predates his bad debate. At least their efforts to derail Harris’ candidacy have not thus far succeeded. Maybe we should face the reality that the NYT just plain doesn’t ever want Democrats to govern the country. It seems to have been their objective all this century. I was too busy before 2000 to pay close attention.
As a long time reader here I’ve always noticed that it is difficult to post an opinion that goes against the consensus held by the majority and when there’s a contentious issue like this one it brings forth very strong feelings. As another commenter has said maybe time is all that’s needed. That’s what works best for me. When I become too vested in an outcome I step away for a bit.
guachi
@Slightly_peeved: your supposed cites indicated the only thing that you considered “people” were elites and elected officials.
You certainly didn’t accept poll data showing a majority of people polled said Biden should endorse Harris. They weren’t real “people”. So I did give you what you asked for you just moved the goal post.
I could have said I and my entire immediate family endorsed Harris and you probably would have dismissed it.
prostratedragon
@rikyrah: Now at 1992 and counting per NBC, with the addition of Texas. 1976 were needed. More votes to come.
Bill Arnold
@Tony G:
That was Crowdstrike. Microsoft just provided the operating system monoculture for Crowdstrike to fuck up.
One of the Many Jens
@MomSense: I hope you stay. I was really glad you came back after your break.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@ArchTeryx:
Without going down that rabbit hole and bringing out the “reply guy/gal” (aka, troll) response by some, yeah. It’s a group of entitled white people who treat everyone as an NPC character in a video game and ignore the fact that government policy should reflect the actual will of the people instead of the regulatory capture attitude I’ve seen by conservatives in forwarding their agenda over the last 40+ years.
Campos, for example, makes a big deal about his ethnicity particularly as it pertains to his lawsuit against CU-Boulder when in fact, he’s as ‘Culturally Caucasian” in terms of his “progressiveness” as the rest of that crowd.
Villago Delenda Est
Army, eh? He didn’t spend much time contemplating his oath of enlistment (I assume enlistment because I know you were enlisted). You know, the part about protecting and defending the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic? Like one each TCFFG/PAB, who stole government documents that happened to be classified? And didn’t properly secure them, or track access to them?
eclare
Did anyone see Doug and Kamala visit the DE campaign headquarters? Doug got choked up talking about meeting Joe and Dr. Jill for the first time. Lots of love between them.
Joe has taught Kamala well. I’m hopeful. Also Kamala had an “I’ll cut a bitch” face when she talked about TCFG. Nice to see.
Fake Irishman
@PDXBob:
Harris has a been a pretty critical asset to the administration in a number of things; a good spokes person to work things like reproductive rights. They’ve also quietly given her lots of responsibility in foreign policy: making some deals with Central American leaders to smooth out some immigration problems for example. She also gave a major address at the Munich Security conference a few years ago. It’s OK that these things haven’t necessarily broken through to the public, but she’s been active like Biden, Cheney, Gore or Mondale (and actually even Quayle) were with their presidential counterparts.
Villago Delenda Est
@Bill Arnold: What utterly amazes me is that they sent out a patch WITHOUT testing it in house to see what would happen. This is just gross incompetence.
MomSense
Ok it’s late – kids just sent me a funny meme.
https://x.com/Kamaumaumau/status/1814835496796991744 Andy Beshear was made in a lab for this moment.
MobiusKlein
My takeaway from the last 16 years (Obama+ era) is there is a lot of profit in making sure we hate each other. And the algorithm has trained us so well, we eat our own. Not that singing Reggae and smoking dope will fix it. But do practice love and forgiveness a little.
(I should read the thread too, but I fear it would rile me up too much.)
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Fake Irishman:
We need to use Dobbs and Roe-V-Wade as a martyr like the French did with Joan of Arc when fighting the English and this is possibly Harris’s strongest asset as a candidate. FPer at Teh Orange laid it out pretty well earlier today:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/7/22/2256939/-With-Harris-2024-really-will-be-the-abortion-election
OGliberal
I’ve been reading this blog for many years but I’m a streaky commenter – I’ll put up 5-6 comments in 2-days then lurk for 3-4 months. Don’t think I’ve ever pulled a “I’m right, you’re wrong!”. I wanted Joe to stay in but, in retrospect, I think what transpired is for the best and I was in denial because I’m a big Biden fan. I won’t say I’m over it but the way the party and the players have performed in the last 36-hours or so has made me feel much better about things – finally looks like they have their shit together.
One thing that has irked me is that sometimes, when I’ve expressed concern or worry about something, I was told to stop being a doomsayer. One time I was called a troll, rather aggressively, and told to leave. I’ve seen this happen to other folks as well. I can’t speak for others but when I do that I’m not trying to bring everybody down, I’m looking for likeminded people to talk me down, to tell me why I shouldn’t worry…I’m not doing it to get told to shut up. And sometimes, those concerns are real – we can’t always say, “Everything is fine…be quiet!” When people are worried, it’s usually sincere and, often, rational. Anyway, my two cents…
Mowgli
@Martin: this is one of the best posts I’ve ever read about a complex moment in time. Bravo.
Jay
@guachi:
read the room,
and get off the cross, we need the wood to build micro-homes for the unhoused.
Ruckus
John, I’ve been gone the majority of the day, just got back from the VA a bit ago.
I commented in an earlier post that if Biden was running I’d vote for him. If Harris is the candidate, and this old white fart really, really thinks she should be, I will happily vote for her.
Rant On.
This is a country that is supposed to be about the people, ALL the people, not just the white folk like you and me, or the pompous arrogant rich fucks who think they own the place and everyone in it, or the assholes who think that the world has been ruined since the 1400s because we decided long ago that all humans are equal. That does not mean that we are equally wealthy or equally poor, it does mean equal in at least public possibilities like running for office, or applying for a job, or having a bank account or getting health care or skin color or serving in the military, so really any measure except criminal efforts. That last one gets you demerits and possibly a shitty place to sleep. John, you and I and more than a few others served our country in the military and the concept of doing that is to protect EVERYONE’S rights and I didn’t do that to move me up above anyone else. I’m tired of the rich being able to get richer at the cost to everyone else, and that is called, I believe not proportional taxation. The rich should become richer by earning that wealth, and paying their fair share to the rest of us. They will still get richer, they just should have a higher cost of still getting wealthier. It does not even out the playing field, not if done like it used to be not all that long ago. What it does is that everyone pays a fairer share. Which ain’t what it is today.
Rant Off.
Bill Arnold
@MomSense:
Things appear to be calming down here. The political threads are a couple of hundred comments long, not a thousand.
The handover to Harris was well-timed and has been rapid and smooth, with some clear pre-planning, though I doubt more than several days worth; the remaining task is winning the election; this will be a serious, ruthless fight. (Rules may be broken.)
BR
I didn’t realize Beshear’s dad was governor before him. Not sure I’m down with that. Beyond the fact that I don’t like political dynasties, I also think it muddies the Dem message against Trump.
eemom
As noted previously, I poked back in here after years of absence because I needed solidarity with my outrage over what the media shithacks and shitsack oligarchs were doing to one of the best Presidents of my lifetime, and my despair over the impending Fourth Reich.
But I’m encouraged by today’s events. And I think we who love our President can take comfort in this: he’s almost certainly feeling a measure of comfort from those events as well (which he set in motion with his endorsement) and peace from the torment he’s been forced to suffer these last horrible weeks.
eclare
@rikyrah:
She nailed Joe’s qualities. Why didn’t whoever was filming at least give her a hug? Like Dolly Parton says in Steel Magnolias, “no one cries alone in my presence.”
SomeRandomGuy
Yes – the Stoics in Greece figured that part out, and it’s a bit of an oversimplification. If you’ve just received ten million dollars in gold, you probably don’t care if someone just laid it on your foot, for example.
One person I read said “don’t stay mad, build up rage”. Now, I hate this, but it’s *not* unlike some role playing game. Let go of the mad, but be ready to pick it right the heck up the moment you need it again.
Emotions aren’t easily controllable, because they occur in bodies, which are chemical monstrosities, emotionally speaking, but they can be managed. Thing is, sometimes, we all fall off occasional emotional cliffs. Just, neurotypicals frequently refuse to believe they can. Managing emotions is a skill everyone needs, just, some people start from an easier starting point.
You know what might be, you neurotypicals? How angry you are today, that’s affected by yesterday, especially if you were angry all day yesterday. ESPECIALLY if, et cetera. Eventually you’ve squeezed out all room for kindness, and, well, no one cares about that kinda crap. But that’s just it: you do need to manage your emotions.
Like, extra workouts if you realize you’re a bundle of nerves, and that helps.
Time spent looking at kittens and puppies.
Writing to old friends you remember, and you know they’re not *too* political… always a risk, I know.
Logging out of the news and playing whatever floats your boat, or bangs your chong, or gets your long, for a while, because, the news will all be there when you get back to it.
These aren’t just things that get tut-tutted to folks like me – they’re tools for survival. Well, for *me* they’re survival, y’all are normal, so I get to be afraid of you, but not the other way around. Just in case anyone thinks othering isn’t a sensitive enough matter for me to bleed other.
I’m sorry – seriously, I’m sorry, because I do not want to sound like I’m lecturing, *I* am not the person who should do it, but – hyperoverangryaggresssion is usually emotional *exhaustion*. So you need to recover. If you are too, too, angry, that’s your emotional exhaustion, keeping you from dealing with it otherwise.
And, as best as I have, I’ve given to you: treat the emotional exhaustion, just that, first. It might help. And it might help going forward. Kinda outwords
TBone
@Jay: it’s Chinatown, Jayke.
Forget it?
HinTN
(((((((((( @MomSense: ))))))))))
Take your time. It’s been rough. FSM knows I’ve had to leave in the middle of a thread because it was so insane. I haven’t known how I felt about lots of these last weeks and that’s made me angry, too. Take your time.
Steve LaBonne
@ArchTeryx: I was enraged by the smug, belligerent ignorance of three of the LGM front pagers at the height of the COVID pandemic. When they started repeating that behavior over this election that was it for me. I deleted my Disqus account and I won’t be back.
eclare
@3Sice:
Seen on a church sign: where love is absent, fear creeps in.
Steep saw that and told it to me. He thought it was a good message.
Bill Arnold
@Villago Delenda Est:
It was weirdly incompetent. I’ve been involved with (as in developed) automated tests for security software, and we had several racks of computers testing even simple rules updates before spraying them out. This was before the practice of rolling updates out to an initial subset of the users became the norm.
Steve LaBonne
@eclare: As a Unitarian Universalist I approve that message. Love is at the center.
TS
@Auntie Beak:
Always – and I know when I am being shitty, I feel guilty for weeks about it – while the recipient of my outrage has moved on and assumed I was having a “bad hair” day.
MomSense
@OGliberal:
Yes, this is my experience too. Usually I’m just trying to figure it out. I observe something and I am not sure how to place it within the larger context of how overwhelming our politics have been. I always want to know if others are seeing it too or how they are coping or what they are saying or doing about it. And there just aren’t that many people outside of this bizarre place who are as interested and interesting. It always amazes me how much expertise and experience can be found here. We are all human though and maybe we just cannot cope sometimes.
I can deal with the vitriolic part but my life experiences make it difficult for me to manage gaslighting or passive aggressive communication. Seriously call me an asshole directly. That is far preferable.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@ArchTeryx:
Aka, they’re glibertarians.
Their econ pronouncements certainly put them in that camp along with many self-professed ‘progressives” who just so happen to be part of the Loyal-Dems-But Brigade…no coincidence.
Richard Fox
As with most folks I was in a bit of shock when I saw the text of Biden stepping down. Yesterday I was in a most glorious setting- the Huntington Library and Gardens in Pasadena. So seeing this Biden text pop up was incongruous and upsetting. It rather spoiled my mood, to say the least. I was (and am) anxious whether the country (especially battleground states) will put a new candidate over the finish line. My memory of Hilary Clinton’s campaign as a woman candidate also rose up in my mind, and I don’t want Harris to be treated similarly. So lots of mixed feeling all added to my deep admiration for President Biden. Tonight I’m heartened by the outpouring of support for the new nominee, and her candidacy evokes the feelings I had when Barack Obama was nominated and then won. I bet that’s happening with others too and that’s a wonderful thing.
eclare
The Liberal Redneck on the current situation:
https://x.com/traecrowder/status/1815495305296855071
Gary K
OK, I’ve gotta ask, hoping the answer is SFW: what does that C stand for in TCFG?
One of the Many Jens
@MomSense: radioactively caucasian, indeed!
TBone
@Gary K: convicted
Doc Sardonic
Convicted
Rose Weiss
@No One of Consequence: That’s when I discovered BJ too, but it really became my home later when things got even worse at DK and concurrently more interesting here.
Lochnessmom
Thank you, Cole. You are really the best of us whether you know it or not, because not only do you model resilience through grief and tragedy, you model kindness. Kindness is often the first thing lost to adversity.
Been here on the daily since the good old Schiavo/Andrew Sullivan days. I have put a couple people in my permanent dessert case over the last couple years, but that is just self care. Don’t keep a book of grievances, just leave behind those that have worn out your ability to bestow grace. That is a strength and not a failure.
And thanks to all the front pagers who bring such variety of information. Don’t know any other place on the tubes that has this level of care and quality.
Now we help Kamala kick that fucking motherfucker’s ass.
Mai Naem mobile
John – thanks for creating this community. I have no idea how you do it even with all the help you get from WG, Anne, Adam and BC.
Ruckus
@Martin:
Bravo!
Now.
I think that is the nail squarely hit. Maybe it’s possible that we as a country have grown up and become at least a bit complacent. There is a list and it is a list of where we are at this time of building a democracy. We have come a long ways and been through some shit as a nation on that journey. Many of us are old enough to have seen some of that first hand, at least I am. We started, all that time ago aiming for equality. I’m pretty sure we aren’t actually all the way there but we have been making strides over my 75 yrs. Big strides, becoming more of the nation the words describe. Do we have a ways to go? I think we do. Do we need to undo a few bits that have been bought and paid for? I think we do. Because if for no other reason, money is not supposed to buy equality and it does, even if it costs a lot more these days.
One of the Many Jens
@Gary K: I believe it’s convicted
Just Some Fuckhead
What the hell did Steeplejack do???
PDXBob
@Fake Irishman: thanks for the information. I wasn’t aware of those things. But, I think it goes to this administration’s SOP. They get shit done, but didn’t do a good job letting people know. I know mainstream media doesn’t like to report good news, but it seems like the buily pulpit could be used more often.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
You’re good people, John, and I love this blog; it’s my home on the big wide Web.
But I live in a group house in Brooklyn that’s in litigation with our landlord who’s, let’s say, ethnic, and last night when someone announced that Biden had withdrawn the mood was really grim. Then a housemate said, “the downside is that Trump will destroy democracy and the environment. The upside is, we get to deport our landlord.” And of course everyone immediately jumped on that person, but the thought did flash through my mind, this is the start of the appeal of every tolitarian regime: you will get to deport your landlord.
We really need to do something when people can’t hope to own their homes or work anything other than gig jobs. What the Trumpists want to do about it is evil, but the Democrats aren’t doing anything effective at all.
HumboldtBlue
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Died?
CaseyL
@Gary K:
“Convicted,” as in The Convicted Former Guy.
Replaced “The Indicted Former Guy.”
dww44
@eemom: Glad to see you back here. It’s been a while and didn’t realize how much I’d missed your blunt takes on the issues. The media was on a mission to get Biden off the ticket. I’ve not ever seen anything like it and I’m too old to even be a boomer.
guachi
@WaterGirl: I did get the point. If we want to prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future, and we all do, then we should all try to understand what it is that Democrats actually want. If 100% of us did then far fewer of us would have been surprised.
Biden dropped out when his team finally did internal polling showing him losing badly. When he understood what voters wanted he withdrew. He could resist calls from Obama and Pelosi but not the siren call of bad polling.
Martin
@eemom: Hey! Getting the band back together!
Lochnessmom
@Just Some Fuckhead: now there is a blast from the past. Somebody rub a lamp?
Bupalos
I feel like I was cordial and tried to be understanding of the anger and conspiracy stuff and emphasized we were all freaking out and scared and…. I was also fucking incessant, and didn’t shut up when I said I would, and couldn’t just let people say their piece. When I know that a lot of people come here for a consensus they probably don’t have around them.
I can do better.
B1naryS3rf
It really ain’t that serious. Yet.
Someone yesterday told me to go eff myself (apparently not for the first time?). I pretty much laughed it off.
We want the same thing. We gotta make sure the other side can’t even get elected dog catcher ever again. Peace.
Sister Golden Bear
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: And it rains constantly here in CA, when we’re not a parched triple-digit hellscape. Plus we’re overrun with packs of snarling feral furries. Save yourselves, do NOT move here.
Harrison Wesley
I just saw this Mark Twain quote while I was looking for something else, and thought it might fit in here. It may not always be true but, much too often, it is.
“The offspring of riches: Pride, vanity, ostentation, arrogance, tyranny.”
danielx
Thanks, Brother Cole.
It is truly amazing to see the almost instant Democratic unification after Sunday. It warms my heart to think of the comparable Republican reaction if by some miracle TFG had to withdraw from the race tomorrow. They’d still be pissing on each other in October. Who knows, perhaps Newt Gingrich could step in as a candidate they could agree upon, which I’d purely love to see. Yet another aging boomer who understands diddleyshit about the concerns of anybody under the age of forty, and I say that as a boomer myself. Time for all us old fucks to get out of the way. I voted for Biden in the primary and would have voted for him in the general election, but I respect his decision however it came about just as I would have respected his decision to remain as his party’s candidate. The important point for me is that I’d vote for a cardboard silhouette of Joe Biden or Lyndon Johnson for that matter rather than see Trump in the Oval Office again.
That being said, there still seem to still seem to be commenters (okay, at least one) who appear to have missed Cole’s entire point and are still more interested in pissing in the soup than stirring it. Whether right or wrong, you’re starting to sound like Judith “I was proved fucking right!” Miller. Go apply for a gig with with the fucking New York Times.
Also, how do I invoke the pie filter.
ArchTeryx
I came here because this place provided a lot of comfort to me. Watching someone turn from a moderate Republican into a flaming liberal gave me hope that maybe this country could head in the right direction. As a cis-het white dude, I should be at the peak of the social pyramid, but instead, I’m at the bottom because I have both mental and physical disabilities. (Especially the mental ones; it’s far less acceptable to be bigoted toward a guy in a wheelchair, but a guy that is autistic? Bigot away!) But something happened on the way to the voting booth. I learned to blame the bigots, not their victims. And that’s hard, because in my field of medical research, the bigots were insulated from all accountability and consequence. Yet if I put one toe out of line, even accidentally, they would work without rest to destroy my career or get me fired.
I had to leave science because science was one of the most bigoted professions imaginable, for all their high-minded talk. LGM was just another example of what complete shitheads most senior academicians are.
But I’ve always felt safer here than in most other places in my life. Even when things get saucy, at least you folks accept me. As weird as I am, I’m a Jackal and intend to remain one.
MobiusKlein
@Bill Arnold:
The fact that the Crowdstrike crash was so seemingly incompetent makes me suspect there were multiple other confounding bugs. Failures of that magnitude have many fathers. I won’t be something so simple as ‘not tested’, but three or four controls that all failed. Well, plus a workforce that got shaved down over years by Stack Ranked Layoffs, making it too overworked to do the job asked of them.
Argiope
Great post, John. I try to remember that mad is sad’s bodyguard and figure it out from there.
Ruckus
@Jess:
Wow.
One of the things I see about not only this country but the world is that just a very few years before I was born, we were fighting a world war. Now we’ve had wars since and hell, I served during one. But look at the world. Many of the countries really no longer want war, but there will ALWAYS be greed and the greedy. And often that is what lights the match under the start of a war. There are many things to be greedy about, and if humans would actually grow up, OK who am I kidding? I think one of the things that has to happen is that we have to find a way to at least have a concept of at least some degree of controlling greed. Because let’s face it, greed is an ugly and dangerous motivator.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Yes, the snarling feral furries! Not even the tree stumps are safe from them! Stay away from California!
danielx
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Died, actually.
Ruckus
@Old Dan and Little Ann:
Ok, now that was funny.
In a sort of juvenile way….
Which of course I am, even at my age.
HumboldtBlue
@eclare:
Just watched that.
kindness
You are right about that John. California is really ******* nice. You all should come out here and try it some. You’d like it.
eclare
@HumboldtBlue:
How is Noodle? Or is it Noodles?
PJ
@guachi: You just can’t stop being a dick and making shit up, can you?
Subsole
@guachi: My man (? sorry, I don’t know your pronouns), you and I have been pretty civil to each other of late. I appreciate that. I am hoping we can build on that.
We have been over, and over and over this shit. People keep being angry, and reopening wounds, and arguing. And gloating. And recriminating ad nauseum.
I am now addressing everyone, not just Guachi.
Maybe we just…I dunno. Let it go for a day??
How about a general amnesty? Or failing that, a designated Festivus Thread where we can circlejerk each others’ grievances to death and let everyone else live in peace?
It’s.
Every.
Damn.
Thread.
Now.
Enough.
I mean, folks, let’s be real. When you get a sick burn on someone in these here comments, what do you think happens? Do you think the other person gets an electric shock to their genitals that scales with how savagely you windmill-dunked on them??
As our President would say, “Come on, man.”
I will keep saying this until you all permapie me for repetitiveness ad infinitum.
Whatever future you want. Telling me I was wrong about Pelosi, getting revenge on Shiff, fucking off to the beach and raising a marmoset. Social democracy or third way liberalism or whatever. Revenge for Joe or an end to whatever ails you about the Democrats today or a recovery of a sane conservative party. Climate justice. A better tomorrow or the unimaginable privilege of sitting on the porch and tuning it all out.
It is through the fucking Nazis. It is through Trump. The only way home is through the bad guys. You only get what you want by putting these horrible people and the folks they have marshalled to their hideous banner on their ass with a mouthful of electoral pavement.
I am terrified. I do not trust America to see what I see in our nominee. Just like they didn’t see what I saw in Hillary.
But I am in this because this is my home, and I feel in my bones that we have a chance to do something truly great, folks. Just like I did with Joe.
I spent my entire life told that my generation wasn’t shit because we didn’t grow up hungry and then go shoot a bunch of fascists. Or march for the right to vote. Or anything exciting. We were soft and lazy and just…disappointing.
The fascists, regrettably, are back. But we can stop them. We can stop them without having to kill people, or ration our food, or pour our energy into the awful engines of destruction. We need not offer our potential to the brazen altar of Moloch.
We just have to vote. We can win a victory every bit as great as our ancestors’, and all we have to do is vote. And convince others to vote. And keep voting and organizing and working while the world changes.
Our forebears suffered privation and a cataclysmic war and atrocities of every stripe, in hope that we would not. What greater honor can we give them now than to learn from their pain and use that wisdom to avoid that pain? What greater joy for those older than us than seeing we have learned from their bitter experience?
We have the chance to save a 250 year old democracy. To safeguard the future of life on earth itself. To build a more perfect union.
That will probably be easier and more effective if we work together. However grudgingly.
I would hate to see us piss all that away for, essentially, Twitter beef. The smallest fucking beer imaginable.
So.
If I have offended or hurt any of you, I apologize. Y’all who pissed me off, I am letting it go.
Whoever you are, as long as you do the fucking work with everything you have and help bear each other up, you and I have no grudge that will not keep for four fucking months (at which point we will either be over it, ready to hash it out, or, regrettably, have acquired new and exciting issues over which to be angry and frightened…).
You don’t have to be happy about being in the foxhole. Just fucking be there.
Let’s not be enemies, people.
Let’s be fucking heroes.
eclare
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Died unexpectedly. There was a post yesterday morning and this afternoon.
TrainedWreck
TY All of This is so AweSum & @Martin @ 78, I can’t stop Re-reading, epic essay, TY! I hope Ur message finds it’s way into campaign 💯 b/c it is sooo well stated 🙏
I always send people over here lols, I especially think the FP women & how BJ often puts its money where its mouf is via donation drives, Angel matchers & action is especially engaging and motivating TY all again. @Martin, if U have a like SubStack page or similar pls lmk, I remember Ur really really helpful posts/ essays when all the Gaza campus protests / chaos first broke out & this post are really again helpful and outstanding pieces furthering introspection & understanding complex messy topics. Much love BJ!
oh sheesh I don’t know how make @Martin blue / live link so he may see/ respond if has SS/ blog but if anyone catches this and wants make it get to him pls do w my gratitude TY
No One of Consequence
@danielx:
Click on the image of the cherry pie at the top of every post. The interface lists commenters and you can select which commenters you’d rather not provide input. Their input, and any response to that commenter’s post, will instead be replaced (usually) with images of pastries. (A vast improvement on Russian plant input, or those of questionable tastes/character/musical inclinations, etc.).
Enjoy. I certainly have. Improves the overall experience.
-NOoC
Enhanced Voting Techniques
What he said.
The matter has been settled, what else is there to be said?
caphilldcne
@guachi: you have been one of the most toxic commenters. This belongs in r/selfawarewolves
Martin
@TrainedWreck: I see you. Thanks for the kind words.
Lily
I’ve started to notice, just a bit, in real life, how much anger affects reasoning, rational conclusions, the speed with which we make assumptions.
AOC pointed out that the core reality is our common motivation—to defeat Trump. I think she urged people to be careful not to mis-attribute the motivations of people who we disagree with. She said that is bad faith.
Sometimes the anger here seemed to jump over that common core to assume bad motivations, prejudices, misjudge or misinterpret intention.
One theory about the origin (‘motivation’) of the young orcas’ attacks on boats is that it originated in defensive behavior based on trauma one orca experienced from a very bad experience with a boat, which ‘flipped a behavioral switch.’
Myself, I recently recognized my PTSD from the Trump years — day by day one horror after the next — has been reactivated. It’s real but at the same time the media has switched it on.
PJ
@Martin: I was all in for Biden. I am all in for Harris.
My major concern is with the election, and not with Democrats, generally (that is, people who always vote for the Democrat), but with the electorate in the middle, the people who don’t know how to decide between fascism and democracy, the people we need to win. It’s a lot easier to sell them on a genial old white guy than it is to sell them on a black woman in racist, misogynist America. I hope I’m wrong, and that this won’t be an issue, but I’m afraid that it will be.
Jay
@Gary K: Twice Convicted Former Guy
Subsole
@Lily:
This is real. We had unbelievable trauma from Trump on top of trauma that never really healed from 9/11 and the exploitation thereof. Plus COVID. Plus all the shocks of our individual lives.
It is a wonder we are holding together at all.
Jay
@Just Some Fuckhead:
He suddenly passed away. There are two FP posts about in over the last few days.
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
Amen. I haven’t been around much lately. I used to chime in all the time. I seldom chime in these last few years, but I check in every day. It’s the first place I come to every day. I’ve been quiet because there’s been so much going on at home over the last few years, with deaths in the family, my wife’s mother’s altzheimer diagnosis and our daughter got diagnosed with autism last summer. It’s mild, but it’s still autism, and it’s a lot to deal with.
I guess what I want to say is that I love this place, I need this place, and I’m so thankful for all the people who work so hard to make it what it is.
Elie
Thank you to John and all of the balloonists. We all care and struggle w how to effect change and support our values. We are impatient and speaking for myself was, pretty scared. But I am excited in this time And very enthusiastic Let’s get to work and enjoy our truly momentous time.
TBone
@Harrison Wesley: luv that guy!
Anonymous At Work
John,
I think the answer to your angry Army friend is touched on a few times. It’s “control.” He’s a cisnet white male with an education and career. He is supposed to be the epitome of society in America and he should be able to control others through his choices and his tastes and his just existing. But he’s not, what control he does have is fading. Socially, he feels the loss more over time. Economically, and politically, he never had control but on the left side of the aisle, you had token minorities but mostly Manchin and Steny Hoyer and the like.
Now, to someone actually versed in Marx and liberal thinking, the idea that he ever had real control as opposed to the illusion of control, well, he’s deluded. The people a few rungs above him had the real control and set up Fox News is inflame both the illusion of control in days of yore and the acuteness of the loss at present. But again, teaching, background, and such.
Now, for the advanced portion: is he a cardiologist or a surgeon by any chance? Maybe a neurologist? At least a high-paying specialty. That makes his sense of loss more acute.
wjca
I’ll nominate Romney. For Senator (retd). Or I would except for him only being Utah’s second worst Senator.
Sasha
I’ve noticed that the most diehard of the MAGA types are people who have, for want of a better word, won at life: People who are financially well off and have a bunch of material signifiers of their success. It’s no coincidence that MAGA held boat parades, have custom tricked-out vehicles worshiping Trump, and indulge in large and ostentatious MAGA merch.
My pet theory is that (since Reagan) the capitalist mindset of what makes a good life — defined as one with money, material goods, and other outward trappings of financial success — have defined these people. Of course, a life lived in pursuit of purely material goods is ultimately a vacuous one and these people don’t have anything to fill the void. And it sucks for them: “I won at life. Why don’t I feel happy? Why do I feel discontent and feel spiritually empty?”
Religion can help, but religion doesn’t offer immediate emotional reward in the same way that worshiping Trump does, and these people desperately need validation in and of their lives.
HumboldtBlue
@eclare:
Noodles is recovering from a stomach thing he had after I gave him new food. He’s as ridiculously adorable as ever, but I have learned just how clingy a kitten can be.
Also, he poops A LOT!
Subsole
@Villago Delenda Est:
Oh. Is that why half the department was completely fucked last Friday???
Subsole
@Jay:
Hey, man. How you holdin’ up?
West of the Rockies
@Sister Golden Bear:
And the whole damn state is on fire!
HumboldtBlue
@West of the Rockies:
And POOP. There is POOP everywhere!
Lily
@Slightly_peeved: LGM got cray cray so fast it was disorienting, for me unreadable .
Canadian Shield
I’m a Canadian, so I just lurk and read. I wanted to jump in so many times but there was venom and pastry flying everywhere and I didn’t think it would helpful for me to throw my 2 cents in (starting even before the ‘Hail Kamala’ passing play was called).
I would suggest the blog call a blanket clemency, no more demands for apologies and no more apologies. The game has reset, everyone put on the same colour armband and point your rifles at the enemy. Just my 2 cents (US, we don’t have Pennie’s anymore here)
TBone
@HumboldtBlue: awwww. Wait till he gets big, and still poops a lot, only bigger 😆 I have to do emergency scoops.
Lily
@Subsole: Exactly. My trauma from those years is still so strong, and it does NOT want to reactivated.
Subsole
@Just Some Fuckhead:
He passed on, man.
Sorry you had to hear it like this.
eclare
@HumboldtBlue:
Awwww….I hope Noodles feels better soon.
Subsole
@Sister Golden Bear:
I thought it never rains in southern California??
J. Arthur Crank
@MomSense:
I just wanted to say that your nym is maybe the top two or three of my favorite nyms here.
What gets me is how normalized many intrinsically fucked things are and how stupid many things are:
Because we have the EC and not the popular vote 20,000 or so of the stupidest mother fuckers on the planet can determine the outcome, Related: California has fewer representatives than it should have because of the cap on the number of congressional members.
“Biden can better make the case against Trump than Harris can”, or the other way around. Neither of them should have to make the case since it is so fucking self-evident! Seriously, the presidential campaign this year can last one day: a speech by each candidate in the morning and time spent using Google in the afternoon for those who are still need their memories refreshed.
Related to the above, probably 40 to 60 million or so (too lazy to look up the exact numbers) of our fellow citizens are horrible people (they vote for Trump, MTG, Pastor Mike, etc).
Given the above, a lot of us are angry, depressed, confused, sad, etc. It is like living in a world where one random law of physics just operates differently every days. You would feel exactly like we do now.
West of the Rockies
@Sasha:
Oh, if the religion MAGA types turn to is of the prosperity gospel variety (evangelicals), it makes them even worse. “I’m rich! I’m God’s chosen!”
West of the Rockies
@HumboldtBlue:
Flaming poop! 🔥 💩.
Martin
@PJ: She doesn’t have to be as good as Biden. She just has to win. We’d be better served by a bag of cabbage as president than Trump.
But Biden has delivered on things that Biden is good at delivering on, and my hope is that Kamala would do the same. But I’d argue that losing EV subsidies is not the most urgent problem right now. I think the most urgent problem is cultural – the mismatch between the Project 2025/handmaids tale/Jim Crow/Mass Deportations Now bullshit and what? What’s the competing vision? That’s not Biden’s strength, not as a white male devout Catholic. But it is Harris’s strength – she’s always been good at making the case for an inclusive, multicultural America where people can safely be their true selves. Biden is good at showing up on picket lines and Harris is good at dancing in Pride parades. They’re both good, they’re both needed, they’re just different. And what we’ve seen from her so far today, she’s making that competing vision. She’ll be great, just at different things. Hopefully we can give her a congress that can backfill the stuff that Biden was good at – they aren’t good at backfilling the cultural stuff. Some are, but it doesn’t land the same.
I disagree we need the middle to win. In 2020, Trump added 12 million votes over 2016 and Biden added 16 million. There wasn’t a shift from the middle from Trump to Biden, there was an addition from the margins from both – and Dems added a lot more.
Now, I don’t think the GOP can match the 2020 numbers, not after Jan 6, felonies, all that. The question is can Democrats match their 2020 numbers, and I think that’s where the polling worry was from. And you get that by engaging the base, not the middle. Get the kids upset about Israel policy back. Add women by fucking RUNNING at the GOP with Dobbs like a goddamn wolverine. Get the Swifties – 18% of voters say they are more likely or much more likely to vote for a candidate that Swift endorses. That’s fucking insane numbers. That’s fuck off and just name her as VP numbers. ‘Oh, can Shapiro carry PA’? Bitch, Swift would add a goddamn California. I’m kidding, but not entirely.
Democrats have been chasing the center since Bill Clinton and it doesn’t work any more. You don’t want to antagonize them, but they cannot be appeased because they don’t really care enough to take a coherent position. Go after your own disaffected voters. They probably don’t care much about politics, but they probably care a lot about culture, because that’s how Trump grew his base by pulling them in.
mvr
Thanks Cole. FWIW in the early aughts I was pissed about the invasion of Iraq and scared that there wasn’t more opposition. The slow morphing of this blog to reflect the realities kept me sane. I was a lurker at least until the Obama campaign. The point being that this was a good place for me to get a bit away from my anger and fear by finding other people who were also angry and afraid and able to talk about it.
Probably the downside of all that is that things can get testy at times. Overall the blog has done a lot of good things to deal with that. The pie filter. Getting front pagers of different sorts. Having WaterGirl look after lots of things to keep us afloat much of the time. I’ve started commenting more regularly, but usually feel a bit on the outside of conversations, probably partly because I read threads late when I finally get some free time. But knowing this place is here is a comfort.
FWIW, yesterday I had feelings on all sides of the emotional spectrum. I was pissed at Biden nay-sayers in the press and their anonymous and then not so anonymous soruces, sad that this really good president got treated so shabbily, somewhat relieved to think that maybe the rolling clusterfuck that was boosting Trump had finally boiled over and might be done. And happy that Kamala Harris had managed to easily become the new nominee in waiting. So I kind of empathized with a lot of folks as I read some pretty bitchy threads yesterday.
Just saying this is still an important place on the net, at least for me.
Martin
Just saw a photo of ‘Sean O’Brien is a class traitor’ projected on the Teamsters HQ and I’m there for it.
Sister Golden Bear
Thanks John. Some random thoughts that probably not many will see because it’s late.
There’s a massive amount of unacknowledged, and definitely untreated, CPTSD from the Covid years. Which we’ve memory holed like folks did after the Spanish flu.
There’s also been a huge amount of social change in recent years, in ways that many folks find disorienting and threatening. Sometimes it’s bullshit, like Cole’s Army buddy. But especially for folks in minority groups, it’s been extremely real. In October 2016 I was looking forward to finally getting treated equally as a trans woman. Now, there’s too many states that are unsafe for me to visit, and I’m figuring out plans for how to flee the country if Republicans win. (And while I’m heartened that Dems have pulled together with Harris, I’m still working on my ex-fil plans. Because yes, it’s literally life and death for me.)
Recognize that what you meant to say, what you actually said, and how others took it can be three extremely different things. Maybe someone did miss your point, but maybe the way you phrased it was problematic, or maybe the other person has some reason (legit or not) that’s getting in the way of hearing what you actually said. Also especially with minority groups, there’s often history and context in which your remarks will be heard. No you might not have meant something a particular way, but there’s a history of other people using it that way. E.g. Thin Black Duke’s apt comment about how Black folks are invariably expected (by white people) to be the Better People and sacrifice themselves for the greater good.
If you’re gonna argue we need to do something based on the latest poll (or whatever) give a link or other reference to it, so they others can check it out themselves. Repeatedly not doing so can come across as arguing in bad faith, or at best, saying “because vibes.”
Speaking of bad faith, if you’re going to disagree with someone, disagree with what they actually said, or their actual point, not a straw man you’ve created. Yes, I know things can be misinterpreted (as I talked about above) but when someone says “that’s not what I said” listen and engage with what they are saying. It’s fair to call them out if you think they’re disingenuously ret-conning things, but that point is to argue what’s actually on the table.
Unless someone’s obviously being a troll, have some courtesy, have some sympathy and some grace. (I’d say also use your well-learned politesse, but hey, we’re snarling jackals here.) In my experience, when someone’s being “difficult” usually they’re trying to be helpful, even if (from your POV) they aren’t; if not, they’re usually being oblivious to the effect they’re having; if not, usually they have the same goal, but different ideas about how to achieve it, if not, usually they may simply have different goals (e.g. think sports teams), it’s only when I’ve ruled out all the rest do I believe someone’s acting with malice.
Ask yourself, am I trying to convince someone, or am I trying to prove someone is wrong on the internet?
Finally, read the fucking room. No matter how strongly you feel need to express yourself, no matter how convinced your brilliance will convince others, no matter how much you feel you’re right, there’s a time and a place to do so. You might feel Bob Newhart shows sucked, and maybe you’ve got indisputable evidence that they did, but you don’t have to — and frankly shouldn’t — barge into a memorial for Newhart to insist everyone know that. (And before anyone @s me, I’m usually this is an analogy.)
Fair Economist
Politics is all about getting along with and working with people you dislike or are angry with. People disagree, sometimes heatedly, but things still need to get done. All I care about now is getting Harris elected. If somebody I’m mad at gets some benefit out of that, FINE! It’s my world at stake – along with many others on this blog, and friends and family of those rich/white/male/cishet enough not to be personally at risk.
As somebody who has done a lot of good for this country said, “Just win.” Let’s do it. It matters.
Straythoughts
I’ve been reading Balloon Juice since the Bush administration and I’ve found it a place that has almost always reflected what I was feeling or thinking. I’ve never commented here and I rarely read any of the comments. I would read the FP posts and either agree or disagree and then move on. After reading John’s post, I had to read the comments to see what chaos was being generated, and I found the comments strangely cathartic. I found some, like me, who are angry about Biden being pushed out, but are slowly coming around. I found some who are hinting, like I now think, that Biden’s resignation may have been managed because of how quickly things came together and how it destroyed any Republican momentum from their convention. And, I also quickly discovered which commentators to skip over because they have nothing useful to say.
So, while not all of the comments are helpful, thank you, Balloon Juice, for making me feel better.
Ruckus
@MomSense:
I am not a particularly religious person. I could explain why but it might only make sense to me….
But.
One of the things that I’ve noticed over my 75 yrs is that we all have a survival aspect of not being forgiving, because it often feels like a loss or that the other guy/gal won if we forgive them. But then I remember back to all that religion stuff and the concept of being the better person and forgiving. Now of course that was written about a simpler time of basically most everyone could often do no more than survive and often, even with all the skills and needs survival was in no way always possible, so forgiving someone often could help with survival. Does it still do that? Quite possibly but I’d bet it really wouldn’t always because survival today isn’t quite the same as say 100 yrs ago. We can stay warmer or cooler. We do not have to depend on growing or killing our own food. My grandmother raised chickens and corn in her back yard within the city of Los Angeles, something that would be much higher unlikely today, if for no other reason than neighbors. My first elementary school in LA county had a dairy next door and we could watch cows being milked through the chain link fence that separated the farm from the school. All that once farm/dairy land is now homes. In our next house a few short yrs later, in the same town, I could look out my second story bedroom and see miles of orange and lemon groves that are now homes as far as the eye can see.
My point is that sure, there are things than cannot be forgiven. I could likely name a number of them. We’ve made a large list of crimes over time, some that are criminal and some that sure can’t be forgiven even if they aren’t. I don’t claim to be a better person because well, I’m not. But one thing I’ve learned, some of which I learned as a mental health counselor is that even if you can’t forgive, it is still better to move on. To me that doesn’t mean I have to forgive someone for a shitty move or words that fit that same description, but at least most of the time one has to let it go. Because otherwise it often consumes us and makes us bitter, which doesn’t solve anything either and yet we still have to live with that. So for me it doesn’t mean I have to forgive others for egregious crap, but I do have to move on, get past it, because I can’t control them, only myself. Now illegal egregious crap, that’s a different story. We often actually have laws for that, which is what makes them illegal. That quite often the law will fix. Maybe not with judge Aileen Cannon at the helm but still, it often can be fixed.
Omnes Omnibus
Maybe this will help get things back on the more typical Balloon Juice track: Why don’t you all go fuck yourselves with a rusty farm implement.
Ruckus
I found this youtube that is amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5MOP1arTfQ
Watch this if you want to see something that should be impossible but rather than that is beautiful.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
I can’t, I don’t own any farm implements, rusty or otherwise…..
Jay
@Subsole:
Doing okay.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus: Du you still have access to a machine shop? Perhaps you could make one, leave outside long enough to get rusty, and then fuck yourself with it? In the spirit of comity and all that…
Sister Golden Bear
@Ruckus:
Definitely. Queer and trans people have learned that we have to let go of the homophobic/transphobic stuff we’ve encountered from people in our lives, people who’d now be horrified if they said it today, but will never actually apologize for what they did in the past.
RandomMonster
Agree. John, don’t blame yourself for people getting frustrated at this unprecedented hard time. It’s historic! And really fucking hard! It’s not your fault at all.
eclare
@Martin:
Good to see.
Sister Golden Bear
@Omnes Omnibus: Because I live in California, and we don’t live on dairy farms, we lay out on beaches every day, so we don’t have agriculture implements handy.
Llelldorin
@guachi: That’s a weak interpretation of the fundraising. I gave to Harris on Sunday as well, even though I’d been a “Biden shouldn’t step down” type, because, as of Sunday, it officially didn’t matter anymore. Harris was the candidate, and making sure that Democratic enthusiasm was the story was important.
Let it go. The fight literally doesn’t matter anymore. Harris is the candidate now. It’s up to us to get her into the Oval Office, not spend the next three and a half months hashing out Who Was A Jerk To Whom.
Omnes Omnibus
@Sister Golden Bear: Maybe have Ruckus make you some too.
Ruckus
@Ruckus:
There are other youtubes of Lucy and they are, to me amazing.
eclare
@Sister Golden Bear:
All good points, especially the last one.
Jay
@Sister Golden Bear:
why arn’t you out raking the woods?
MisterForkbeard
@Omnes Omnibus: Needs at least one reference to baud and pants
Martin
I’m warming up to Kelly for VP if only for the inevitable GOP conspiracy theories that he died and was replaced by his twin.
Villago Delenda Est
I smell beancounter asshats.
Ruckus
@Sister Golden Bear:
I call what you experienced, if you did, and it is very likely you did, pure shit.
My sister was gay and because of that I’ve met a lot of gay people and there is no way my life would be anything like it has been without that. I have stories. I very likely won’t tell them here, or name anyone but they are
goodgreat stories of people I am so glad I got to meet. Knowing them has been an honor. Knowing a couple of them has gone way beyond that.Omnes Omnibus
@MisterForkbeard: Well, you can fuck yourself with Baud’s unused pants. Feel better now?
Villago Delenda Est
@West of the Rockies: The prosperity gospel is heresy. Plain and simple. Jesus weeps.
Martin
@Villago Delenda Est: He weeps because he’s fucking poor. If Jesus invested in crypto with diamond hands, he’d be banging some hot babes right now.
Villago Delenda Est
@Martin: He’s got the power to turn water into wine. That’s good to pick up a few hot babes, I’m sure.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
I do have access to a machine shop. But no place to leave what I built outside in the rain. Also it rains so often in SoCal that shit left outside doesn’t rust like it does in other places I’ve lived. And as for getting fucked, rusty farm implements ain’t even my tenth choice. So, thanks for the idea but I’ll pass.
Next……
MisterForkbeard
@Llelldorin: Pretty much.
I get that not everyone is willing to let it go just yet, but we ARE all on the same team. I’m very annoyed at one particular person here, but nearly everyone else has handled the announcement and change with grace.
Those people who felt (again, with one exception) attacked in the last few weeks, my deepest apologies to you and I hope you all stick around.
JGreen
I would like to mention that apart from the arguing, this blog is also the place where we find out about local politics and sometimes even international politics (e.g. Tony Jay, kalakal, Aussie Sheila, etc.). And authors and gardening and adorable pets. And what is the best air fryer to get and how to fix things around the house and sometimes the latest sports.
We joke about it being a full-service blog, but it really is. I’m amazed how many people join in. I’ve done it only a few times, but I’m one of the lurkers who feels that someone always says what I was about to say first and better than I could.
I still like this place although it’s been harder to do lately. Keep it going everybody. We need it.
Lily
@MomSense: I haven’t commented for years, but the sanity of your writing has always brought me relief and clarity. Thanks for that. Whatever is best for your health and some peace of mind is the most important thing. (I know this because of my mistakes.) Wishing you all the best.
MisterForkbeard
@Omnes Omnibus: I do, weirdly enough. It just feels like home now
Lynn Dee
Two things in the past 15 years or so really opened my eyes on the whole political anger thing. First was 2008 and the Obama/Hillary rift that John referred to in his thought-provoking post. I was very much an Obama supporter and remember feeling so angry at the PUMA’s — but then, in 2016, I was very much a Hillary Clinton supporter — a not unusual sequence for a lot of Democrats, I know. But you can’t experience that sequence without learning something about the malleability of anger and its targets, even your own anger. Maybe especially your own anger.
The second thing began in 2020 with <gag!> the election of Trump, followed in pretty short order by the appearance of Never Trumpers. I was often surprised to see who, among the previously undifferentiated (lol) group of Republicans and conservatives who appeared on TV revealed themselves to be Never Trumpers. It seemed impossible to predict who might be next. It was also interesting to discover conservatives I’d previously thought I “couldn’t stand” now seemed much more agreeable! Likeable even. And I had to acknowledge to myself I really hadn’t paid that close attention before to who they were as individuals. If I had, would I have been less surprised by which of them became Never Trumpers and which of them didn’t? I don’t know. Maybe seeing folks on TV just doesn’t lend itself to that. But it was still an eye-opener.
One thing I think would be nice going forward is if people (not referring to anyone specifically, here or elsewhere, but to people generally) on “all sides” of an issue could at least entertain the possibility that those who disagree with them aren’t all bad faith actors. For sure, life in general and politics in particular has plenty of people who don’t act in good faith. But that’s just not true of everyone — and, when it comes to everything that’s consumed us for the past three weeks, I have to believe it’s not even true of the majority. In any case, it’s a good default setting to start with — makes it easier to hear people.
Sister Golden Bear
@Ruckus:
It was. Sometimes still is. Even here. My therapist rightly observed that every LGBTQ+ people has at least some amount of CPTSD from living in our society. (I assume that’s also true for Black folks and other minority groups, but I won’t presume to speak for them.)
I’m not gonna forget it, but if I dwelled on it, I’d be consumed by rage and bitterness.
Though it would be nice if at least once in a while people acknowledged the harm they did, even if it was done unthinkingly. But I’m not holding my breath for that to happen. So I move forward.
Martin
@Villago Delenda Est: I’m not sure wine gets the hawk tuah girl. She’s got tequila energy.
Villago Delenda Est
This is just ridiculous: Faux Noise blatherers are complaining that Dems are saying TCFFG/PAB is too old to be President.
How things have changed since yesterday afternoon.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
Also, I’m fucking retired. As in being tired and tired and tired and over and over and over….
So really, while I know someone with a machine shop, I no longer dirty my hands with actually labor, unless maybe it benefits me. And using a farm implement incorrectly does not benefit me……
Marc
Something positive happened today that is new (for me) during this election season. For some background, I’m probably close to the worse case scenario for political advertising. We have no TV or cable, don’t use social media. I haven’t read the NYT, WaPo, SF Chronicle since the paywalls went up. I do subscribe to The Guardian, TPM, and a local news site. We stream shows sporadically on various paid sites. And, I watch odd YouTube channels (primarily Japanese food and, uh, train ride videos, both of which provide soothing background noise). Plus, I look at BJ, LGM, and Eschaton, because I like contradictions.
So, I haven’t seen many political ads, except heavy rotations of the Biden/Obama Send Me $5 pitches on YouTube (which get skipped). Well, today, after watching a YouTube video, a Kamala Harris ad appeared and she succinctly discussed a list of reasons why Trump is dangerous to this country and those who depend upon it, followed by a brief request for money. All spoken clearly with a sense of commitment and trustworthiness. I’m sure they exist, but for whatever reasons I never saw one like that from the Biden campaign. The fact that the Harris campaign can already get through to a digital media recluse like myself is impressive. I hope to see more in the future and will send my contribution.
Ruckus
@Sister Golden Bear:
As a white person I’ve known a few white people my own self.
And some white people often really just hate everyone. That sentence may actually encompass far more than just white people to the point that it’s actually most every human. Some seem to be incapable of hate, which while nice can, in some situations, be dangerous to one’s health. I’d bet the number that it doesn’t is an even dozen.
Tony Jay
@Omnes Omnibus:
Whenever someone tells me to go fuck myself I consider it rude not to give it a go, and invariably I enjoy it a lot more than I thought I would.
As to the opening bid, well said, Cole. The cut-and-paste screeching coming from some self-obsessed commentators, when combined with the reek of all the low-roiling troll gas from the recent bombardments, has been an assault on the senses that I really haven’t enjoyed.
Yeah, shit happens, reactions are normal, but when you’re pelting down the slope of an erupting volcano pursued by rocks and magma it’s not the best time for back-and-forths about the optimum mode of footwear everyone should be wearing. And tripping up the people alongside you to sate the magma’s anger doesn’t work, because the magma don’t care. Just run, win, and get lairy over a lot of beers down at base camp.
That is all. Go do your election winning thing.
Martin
@Villago Delenda Est: So, I’m wondering where we are on this. 2 days in is too early, but there was a moment in 2008 when Obama was doing these rallies and the numbers were just, like, incredulous. And then the next one was bigger, and the next bigger yet. There was a sense that this had become a phenomenon. Like we couldn’t contextualize it, and we didn’t know where it came from. Obama was that cultural moment for Democrats because there was a real sense after him winning that we had moved the culture in a better direction.
That last 36 hours have felt like that. Maybe it’s just the collective expression after the last few weeks of uncertainty, but the black women/black men zoom organizing calls being orders of magnitude larger than usual, etc. feels like more than that. It’ll be interesting to see if this momentum continues because if it does I think Trump gets steamrolled here. Could go either way, but there’s a lot of weird (good) energy out there.
ArchTeryx
Last comment before I probably disappear into lurker mode for a while.
I don’t know what the future will bring, whoever wins the election. I do know that having Kamala Harris as my President is something I would truly be proud of, and with a mentor like Dark Brandon, she’s going to knock it out of the park. At least, for 4 more years, my safety would be assured, and I could move on to more mundane worries.
But if TCFG wins? I don’t know then, either. I know history, Project 2025, quotes from people who think some of us “need killin'” and my own 53 years of life experiences. None of that bodes well, and it in fact scares the living shit out of me. I have no place to escape to. I’m a financial analyst with a laundry list of mental and physical disabilities. My primary drug keeping me alive costs $130K a year. No country would want the likes of me. So here I would make my final stand… whatever that meant. I’ve been running all my life away from people who wanted me dead – nothing personal, just business – and I’ve run out of places to run to.
I don’t have anything more to prove about why I am scared. Not especially to sealions.
But I’ll do all I can to try and keep the country from tipping into the Dark Ages. It is precious little. But I will try. As long as the fascists don’t win, nothing else matters to me. And the way the party’s come together has made me significantly less terrified of my future. It’s something worth fighting for.
ArchTeryx the furry freak, signing off.
Sister Golden Bear
@Ruckus: As a fellow white person, I concur.
Sister Golden Bear
@Tony Jay:
Mad respect for your flexibility and gymnastic abilities.
eclare
@Tony Jay:
Your opening paragraph is hilarious.
Ruckus
@Sister Golden Bear:
I think it helps to remember that it takes all kinds to make up humanity. And that somewhere there is the worst human on the planet, no matter what your definition of worst is, and just as likely somewhere there is the best human on the planet, no matter what your definition of best is. Now it is extremely unlikely that anyone will ever meet both sides and almost as unlikely that anyone will even meet one of them. But of course if there is a worst, by any definition there is a best. That doesn’t mean that either one is who any of us think it might be. Out of how many billion will there only be 2 Omnes? Or two Ruckus? And which is which???? (Omnes – just couldn’t help my own self…. and no I didn’t say which is which)
divF
@George:
@Betty Cracker:
My first thought was, a riff on Canto 33 from Dante’s Inferno, where Count Ugolino gnaws on the head of Archbishop Ruggieri, both of whom are encased in ice. Ugolino is in Antenora, the section of the ninth circle of Hell reserved for the compound fraud of betraying one’s country.
Tony Jay
@Sister Golden Bear:
@eclare:
Prince. Not just a top musician, more of a trailblazing physical therapist.
SFAW
@Ruckus:
I guess I’m a bit appalled that Omnes told you to make your own rusty pitchforks, rather that offer to loan you some from his own (well-used and extremely rusty) collection. Pretty shitty olive branch, if you ask me. Hell, even if you don’t ask me.
[NB: I’ll allow as how I may have missed him making that offer, as it’s late, I’m sleepy, and my reading comprehension is worse than usual. ]
SFAW
@Sister Golden Bear:
Not to mention his prodigious …. uh …. something.
Slightly_peeved
@guachi:
given your family wasn’t involved in deciding the content of a mini primary, they weren’t relevant to the issue at the time – whether the democrats would coalesce on a candidate or go into some reality-show-inspired shitshow. they haven’t, and hopefully won’t.
also, that’s not what you said. You just called me a liar. Expectations of politeness cut both ways.
opiejeanne
@SomeRandomGuy: Good idea. Yesterday started off terrible wiht finding out that we’d lost Steeplejack, and then the Biden announcement which felt like a physical blow. I was sleep deprived last night and said some things I regret that I didn’t think were bad in the moment. It was a combination of frustration with someone who couldn’t understand what was being said to them, and emotional and physical exhaustion, and I’m ashamed. It was only directed at one person, who before the debates was working my last nerve half of the time.
I slept most of the afternoon and it helped, and I’m starting to feel sleepy so I don’t think I’ll have trouble sleeping tonight.
ColoradoGuy
Thank you, John.
It’s been quite the roller coaster the last 36 hours, and now I wonder how much of it was gamed out weeks ago. Probably a fair amount.
I agree the whole world is suffering CPTSD. We were promised a nice shiny new Millennium, and all we’ve done is lurch from one disaster to another, starting with Bush v Gore, 9/11, and culminating in the madness of Trump and Covid. The underlying terror of global climate change is felt by everyone, and the better informed you are, the worse it is. Millions are choosing to live in a mental Disneyland because they just don’t want to hear any more … it’s just too much.
Kamala represents a ray of hope, something millions of us have forgotten after all this trauma. And one good thing about the last few weeks is everyone now sees the blatant reality creation of the New York Times and the smaller fish that follow them.
Ruckus
@SFAW:
Both Omnes and I have been around here for some time and likely over that time we’ve talked about what we’ve done for careers or at least most of our working lives. Of which mine is done, I’m retired. Done. Finished. Fuck work. And so, who would allow me to use their businesses to make my own farm implements as their insurance wouldn’t cover me so it can’t/won’t happen in any event. I mean I’m capable of doing it, it’s just no longer possible. Plus, it would be easier to purchase farm implements, even here in SoCal where the largest farm I know about is the grass outside my apartment.
That’s the long way around discussing this…..
Tony Jay
@SFAW:
My capacity for strong feeling is matched only by the firmness of my commitment to… oh, hang on, thats seminary talk.
InternetDragons
Thank you, John. I’ve mainly lurked here since…maybe 2011? It’s always felt like a home to me, though I can’t think of myself as a Jackal – I’ve been too anonymous.
I mainly wanted to thank John for this post, and add some extra gratitude to WaterGirl who has kindly tolerated my submission of pet snake photos for a couple of the annual calendars despite her fear of them <3.
It’s been hard to witness some of the recent divisiveness here, though of course I know it’s because people are passionate. Much of my career was in public health work establishing syringe exchange programs in areas where there was high incidence of HIV and HCV, but the community was against syringe exchange. I learned how to build alliances with folks who detested me, and who didn’t share my beliefs or values. I also learned how to maintain a pretty thick skin. I’m saying all of that because the current political situation feels so similar.
We are fighting fascism. Not just views that we disagree with. But literal fucking fascism. That’s so important, so I wish we could give one another a little grace when we disagree on strategy. But if that doesn’t happen I’m not going to leave. When it gets right down to it, you are all my allies in the ways that are most important.
I was all in for Biden. I hated the way things came down this week. I am all in for Kamala. But I have entirely lost my remaining trust in mainstream media – I view them as enemies of democracy. I no longer trust most of the big Democratic donors or ‘leaders’. I don’t know what that will mean for me in future. But I need to put it on hold for now and do whatever I can to ensure that we win this election.
I’m going to ignore the noise just like Uncle Joe taught us, and try to take the incredible lessons demonstrated by the French in their elections – be ruthlessly strategic; compromise where we must; build coalitions. Because we cannot let the fascists win. In the meantime, I’m grateful for this quirky refuge that John and all of you have created.
Aussie Sheila
@Martin:
I agree with you. It feels like a cork has been pulled and the bubbles are tumbling upwards.
The people at the bottom of the social and economic totem pole are rarely listened to or heeded. When their energy for agency and dignity is released, it’s unstoppable.
I always thought Biden was the best US President in my lifetime, but by AEST Saturday, (your Friday) I thought he would be out.
That didn’t happen solely via the FTFNYT. It was pent up frustration with a number of things including the Admins position on Gaza for young people, and the incredulousness of more normie liberals at the lack of legal accountability trump was actually facing for his many crimes. An incredulousness I share it must be said,
In any case, Harris is now ‘it’, and good. Pelosi did her Party a favour (as usual), and the only goal now is just win baby.
I also understand and sympathise with those who are still shocked and grieving. However in 44 years we have had 11 leaders of the ALP. I really don’t care much, beyond their ability to wrangle the Party and win elections. However I hated and resented three of them. I was wrong about one big time, and right about two others.
🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
hueyplong
John Cole’s intro to this thread is pretty good. Most of us could read (or re-read) it without doing ourselves much harm.
We live in an era filled with disinformation, an unnecessarily neutral word that masks the deliberate hatred and fraud that go into its use. We in this community spend a lot of our time parsing fraud on the internet and so we think we’re good at it and identifying bad actors. Sometimes we don’t get it right. We’ll know better over the next couple of weeks, but I’m getting the impression that several prominent Democrats I’ve been pissed at may have done some necessary though distasteful work that had to be done to win in the face of a tidal wave of bad faith from the other side and comically unneutral media such as the FTFNYT.
However we got here, we’re at a place where we’re about to officially nominate a great candidate and make forces of actual evil implement a brand new demonization campaign on the fly in a manner that makes their bad faith more visible and identifiable as repulsive to voters.
It would be best if everyone here were on board together as a fight for such high stakes plays out, with easily exposed assholedom limited to the other side, where it truly resides and belongs.
Not sure that’s going to happen, but hope it will and will read posts periodically over the next few days with that rooting interest at the forefront.
lurker
@Tony Jay:
asbestos Birkenstocks obviously … will see you at the bottom if we make it…
Tony Jay
@lurker:
… piggyback?
lurker
We had four years of Trump as President* ( asterisk courtesy of Charles Pierce) giving us a walking, talking definition of sore winner. @guachi [@guachi: ; @guachi:] seems determined to provide another definition.
Winning elections is about coalition building – which involves some bruising along the way getting people moving in the same overall direction – or failing to build a coalition and losing the election.
We heard from you that Democrats/voters/grassroots wanted this change. From where I sit it sound like you speak for me and every other voter or member of the grassroots. Obviously that is not the case as there are a lot of commenters here who disagreed with your point of view and are also voters and members of the grassroots. Neither of us have seen the polls Biden saw, nor do we know how he made his decision, despite the various leaks, rumors and pundit-speak which comes from some orifice. Suggesting you know what happened further undermines your credibility.
There are other commenters who have been so strident that they pushed people away from otherwise reasonable points of view. Not to pick on someone, but eversor has had a few stem-winders in the comments that made sense and still managed to alienate potential allies.
Now is the time to attempt to be an ally graciously and let a few scores fade away without response, rather than being a sore winner that potentially splinters a coalition instead of building one. I write as someone who has missed out on some opportunities in life due to being a bit too much of a dick at times. Please consider a different approach.
lurker
@Tony Jay: you’re taking your life in some strange and disturbing directions if you rely on me in this situation (volcano/election) … but you know, sure, we can both die that way… ; – )
Tony Jay
@lurker:
Given the chances of outrunning magma (you lied, mid-90’s volcano movies and that episode of AIRWOLF!) it’s less ‘relying on’ and more ‘having a bit of company and a nice sit down before we go up like butter on a skillet’.
It’s all situational, these days. 👍
Msb
@ guachi
For heaven’s sake, just take the win. You’ll get awfully tired, waiting for everyone who disagrees with you to tell you you’re right.
@ Subsole
I’m in.
lurker
@Tony Jay: do not recall the particular episode of airwolf … I was around for Mt St Helens and the evidence suggests that would have been hard to outrun …
if you have the food, happy to do a nice sit down … likely the volcano can do the cooking for us
Citizen Alan
@Gary K: Convicted. But feel free to insert an NSFW word if you want.
Citizen Alan
@Harrison Wesley:
Or as I have put it in the past: Wealth beyond a certain point causes people to become evil and stupid.
K-Mo
Thanks John.
I’m mostly a lurker because I don’t have that much to contribute. Once in a while I see something that I disagree with and that brings me out. The last few weeks were the mother lode of that dynamic.
My evolving view of Balloon Juice is that it’s not perfect but it’s still one of the best places on the internet. Basically because, mixed in with the jawing and needless aggression is a lot of good content, both from the FPers and the commentariat.
We’ll get through.
columbusqueen
@Martin: I really hope this analysis is right. Thank you for posting it.
Quaker in a Basement
Sorry I’m late. What’d I miss?
columbusqueen
@guachi: I told you before, just stop. You’ve singlehandedly stirred up more shit here than anyone else, & you’re still at it. STOP.
Princess
@MomSense: I hope you stay, even though we were on different sides of this. I know a lot of people, maybe not the loudest voices on here, feel the same way.
WereBear
All of us can agree that watching Trump panic about this was proof that this was a actual bold move, and the right person did the right thing.
And please, folks, he’s still President. He can Dark Brandon all he wants without as many worries about his “electability” because I want his grudges to be for the corporate press.
WereBear
@eclare: He’s right.
Spanish Moss
@Martin: Excellent post, I love the chess analogy! I think this part really captures the situation for me:
I do so sympathize with the grieving going on. For me, that process started after the debate, so I am further along.
As a woman, there is another dimension to this ticket change. I am once again amazed at how emotional I feel about the possibility of seeing a female president. I surprised myself by crying on the way home after I voted for Hillary, thinking I had just voted for the first female president. I knew I cared, but I didn’t realize how much until I actually voted. And today, I saw a couple of different mashups of Kamala walking with the Norman Rockwell image of Ruby Bridges (one with Ruby as Kamala’s shadow, another with Kamala following Ruby across the bridge in Selma), and I found myself crying at the possibility of a momentous milestone.
I am relieved that the national conversation has changed from Joe’s age to his selflessness. The outpourings of love and appreciation have been a salve for the wounds of the past few weeks. The comparison to Washington’s stepping down hadn’t occurred to me before, and I truly think that Joe’s act of courage will burnish his reputation rather than tarnish it. He will be remembered as one our greatest presidents, as he should be.
DBaker
John
I’ve been lurking here since you came over from the dark side through Atrios and LGM. I still read LGM even though the FP’s there started going hostile on their commenters.
I was in the “Biden is getting railroaded by the Donor class and the media” just like a lot of people (such as the MSW Media universe).
What I see now is just more proof that he is the best President of my lifetime because he has grown as a politician and as a person throughout his life and has applied that to the good of the country by just having a good North Star. Biden’s instincts were to go this path and I trust him and it sure appears that this was the right move!
Look how Stephen Miller and TFG and Mike Johnson and a bunch of these awful, awful people are all panicking over this move! Proof in the pudding and all that.
My point is – we’re all human beings who all have an opinion who want the best for the country and for the human race – we just differ on how to get there and have a right to express strongly what that path is. Now let’s get to work and push MAGA into the same place in history that the first America First movement ended up.
Kamala said it best yesterday – we want to move forward by being inclusive while they want to move back by being exclusive. Let’s move forward by being inclusive of those who may differ on what the path forward is but all agree on the common goal.
zhena gogolia
I personally don’t feel at home here any more. But it’s my only source of news. I tried to kick the habit yesterday but failed. But I am going to be very careful about who I engage with now. There’s a real ugliness here in the last three weeks that I’ve never seen before.
zhena gogolia
@WereBear: Yes, he’s still President. How ever can he do the job when he’s senile and unable to run up and down stairs?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@zhena gogolia: Wrap your brain around this point:
Biden is now a martyr for the Republic, twice over. First he came out of a comfortable retirement and then he put aside his own ambition for the sake of the country.
That’s the role Trump so desperately wants. What do you think the “poor widdle’ me, I am persecuted worse than Jesus” theme in that petty little man’s speeches is about?
BellyCat
It’s not you, Cole. There is a growing in-group / out-group phenomenon developing or has developed. Some in the in-group seem to feel it’s fine to:
A: Proudly declare pieing someone.
B: Personally (and viciously) attack those expressing viewpoints they do not wish to hear. And newer voices are attacked as Trolls, with little possibility they might be [and have often been] longtime lurkers.
C. Pile on bullying then often takes place by others showing solidarity as some kind of virtue signaling that bullying is acceptable.
Sure, some people won’t let go (on either side) and I can see how “pie” can possibly be helpful, but ultimately, it’s a form of silencing.
A few ideas about pie and others are invited:
— Make it temporary (such as 12-24 hours?)
— Limit the number possible to pie (3?)
This place has been looking a lot like a middle school recess lately, with no teachers present. To me, the bullies are the bigger problem than those presenting minority opinions. It’s been like a kind of “opinion racism”.
Hopefully we can move beyond, but lasting enmity among a few is a real possibility. Would love for this to not repeat itself, this a few suggestions above. Other ideas welcomed!
Regardless… Time to unite and BEAT FASCISM!
Mr. Mack
De-lurking to say two things: Well said John. Also, I forget who said it, but I heartily agree with the saying “never accept criticism from someone you wouldn’t accept advice from.”
rukiddingme?
I don’t know if I’ve ever commented here before but:
This is *exactly* why I came here many years ago: a place where a community with diverse opinions can have a discussion, with wit, intelligence, and occasional snark.
And it’s still a community. Most of the other places on the web that felt like community have disappeared, or become useless for discussion.
So thank you all for keeping it what it is.
zhena gogolia
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I know. I understand all the intellectual arguments. I just haven’t been able to get over the tragedy. I suppose I will in time.
But they better damn well nominate Harris, or I’m done.
Ksmiami
@dc: Exactly. We are not here to play, or provide fodder for the fucking fascist enabling NY Times. We are here to crush MAGA and its movement.
O. Felix Culpa
I’ll just say that as a person who grew up in an extremely abusive household, the past several weeks have been traumatic for me. It took me a while to realize what was going on, and why I felt so horrified about what was going on and still compelled to participate. This realization highlights for me that we do not know each other’s histories, nor what is behind their emotional reactions. So yes, a little kindness can go a long way.
It’s also hard for me, because I tried to engage in what I thought was good faith with a commenter that I have genuinely liked and admired over the decades (!) and got what felt like an abusive tirade in return. When I tried to find out why they had reacted so strongly to what I thought were honest but non-attacking comments on an admittedly fraught topic, the abuse (what felt like abuse to me) continued. That was my experience at home too: if I asked why I was getting beaten, I was told that I should know why, and because I ask, I’ll get beaten more.
It’s curious how much online comments can hurt. I don’t mean little jabs in passing, but a full in-your-face tirade from someone you liked and thought you knew, in an online sort of way. I understand that this person were hurting too, from an earlier episode that I wasn’t involved in, so maybe I unwittingly stepped onto an emotional landmine and triggered their rage-response with my comments. If that’s the case, I am sorry. And frankly, I hope that they extend a little grace my way too.
Sister Golden Bear said most eloquently at #200 what I would like to say.
Anyway, I’m still hurting, the wound still aches whenever I see that person’s nym, AND I’m trying to move on. Here’s to healing for all of us and to a Kamala Harris presidency.
Ksmiami
@Martin: The real Martin is back. Thanks for your post- I’ve been thinking a lot about this election in terms of game theory and your post better elucidated my thoughts. Ty!
Spanish Moss
@BellyCat: I too noticed the “clique” vibe. There have been a few times when discussions got quite overheated in the past years, but this is the first time that I have noticed the weaponization of pieing. I don’t use pies myself, but I had the impression that pies are a tool to be used more or less silently by those who need it. The prevalence of announcing the pie, or threatening the pie, feels new to me, and I think it coarsens the discourse.
Is there pie etiquette?
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@BellyCat:
Absolutely not. Refusing to be an audience member is not silencing. We’ve had this discussion any time the poor widdle pundits start whining about being “canceled”.
The people in my filter list do not have a right to my attention. Not now, not ever.
wenchacha
@Martin: This comment, along with your earlier one, is why I always enjoy your posts, Martin. I appreciate your level-headedness.
Thanks for sharing your perspective.
I think my greatest anxiety was that people wouldn’t accept Harris, especially when Biden was being pilloried by other Dems. Well, the ensuing hours since the announcement have shown me that was unwarranted.
And as painful as it was, the timing of the announcement was pretty savvy, as it turns out.
LAC
@zhena gogolia: i am glad you will still be engaging. It has been a tough few weeks but i am elated with having other minority voices here on the blog. Just pie who you need to (you can toggle to see if they are saying anything you need to hear) and continue to post when you want to. Your voice is important too.
Math Guy
Thank you John and thank you BJ.
The Thin Black Duke
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Damned right. Thank you.
Madeleine
@randy khan: thank you for your succinct account of your senses of the weeks since the debate. Mine are similar and it’s helpful to have the situation and feelings so clearly brought together.
Bugboy
Late lurker here, but my workforce is very likely in the range of 60-80% MAGA. Short of the anger being addictive, there’s quite a bit of performative anger going on here. And “performative” is the key word here.
These people are fundamentally dissatisfied with life. I’ve had to explain to several of them how goddamned good they have it, but they are beyond getting “it”, because propaganda works, and they readily, daily, hourly, by the minute, consume propaganda.
I have broken through SOME of it by pointing out that the rich love to divide us. But that’s the function of the anger, and always has been.
czrisher
I’ve been coming here since 2008. Though I’ve never contributed enough to feel a proper member of the community, this is the kind of community I value and praise and it all stems from JGC’s approach to the blog and to life. (OBEY Tunch, love Rosie, get infuriated with everyone for a moment and move on. Don’t forget the mustard.) You are all among the best things about this country. @CaseyL said it exactly as I feel.
I agree with @ArchTeryx and @Betty Cracker that @MomSense has always been a great part of BJ.
UncleEbeneezer
I’ve already said my piece (peace?) in other threads.
But a great quote I do want to share is that “Anger is sadness with no place else to go.” It’s from a book titled “Conflict Is Not Abuse” that I haven’t read yet but is supposed to be really superb. An yes, I know I need to read it as much as anyone:
Sis
@guachi: I appreciate what you’re saying, but there were many, many Democrats who wanted Biden to stay who are also behind Kamala 100%, who will knock on doors and donate and who felt (as I still feel) that a great man and a great President was being publicly humiliated every day for weeks on end. And as Chris Hayes said, he wasn’t being attacked because of a scandal. This wasn’t Watergate. He had literally done nothing wrong; in fact, he’s done everything right and has our economy and our country’s position in the world back where they should be. I will always believe that he deserved much better from his party and his country.
I’m glad that the party has come together so quickly around VP Harris, who I believe will make a great President, and I’m going to knock on as many doors as I can for her, but I still feel that many in his party treated Joe Biden shabbily. He has every right to be angry and bitter, although he’s already phoned in to one of Harris’ first appearances and said “I love ya, kid” and will be campaigning as much as he can for her.
Lynn Dee
@BellyCat:
Quote: “It’s not you, Cole. There is a growing in-group / out-group phenomenon developing or has developed. Some in the in-group seem to feel it’s fine to:
A: Proudly declare pieing someone.
B: Personally (and viciously) attack those expressing viewpoints they do not wish to hear. And newer voices are attacked as Trolls, with little possibility they might be [and have often been] longtime lurkers.
C. Pile on bullying then often takes place by others showing solidarity as some kind of virtue signaling that bullying is acceptable.”
This has been my sense too and I was surprised by it. Maybe I just wasn’t paying attention, but I’d never seen anything like it here before. (I also had no idea what the little pies were for until the last week or so when I saw a discussion of it.)
For my two cents, I think pie-ing itself is fine but I agree with your comments about “declaring” it. I suppose that can be seen as just another way of expressing frustration, but it also just adds to the sense of an ongoing standoff.
Paul in KY
@Chet Murthy: That was sorta me. I thought Pres. Biden had a better chance of beating the Convicted Con-Man Cheetolini. I sure hope I’m wrong on that.
Let’s go Kamala Harris! Whup his ass!
Paul in KY
@Jusrin: Come on and sit by me :-)
Paul in KY
@BR: TFG’s dad was a racist slumlord. Definitely not a politician.
JustRuss
@Martin: That’s a great take, thanks for sharing.
JustRuss
@Sis: +1, and I hate that Fox, the Republicans, and all the concern trolls got to take their victory lap. May they find it a very Pyrrhic victory.
TaxesMyCredulity
One of the best things about getting old(er) is you get more of a shot at gaining wisdom. You’ve been doing that and sharing with us along the way. This is one of your best posts yet, John. Thank you!
Annie
@ArchTeryx:
So true about LGM. One of the front pagers there is a law professor, or says he is — but his posts sound as if he’s never actually practiced law in a real-life firm or legal department. (And I speak as a paralegal who’s been in those trenches for 40 years.)
Bex
@eclare: I am so glad things have calmed down (with a few exceptions) here. I miss Steep, but I’m sure he knows about the sea change in our politics and is enjoying a few margs at The Big After Party.
No One You Know
@dc: Yes. All this. And I do believe Kamala will rise to the challenge. I also believe the relative quiet of her role wasn’t because she didn’t want to engage. I’m sure there are rules, and one of them is probably don’t upstage the boss who is also your mentor. Especially if the health/ competition edge is a little too close with TFG.
No One You Know
@Martin: I love your line of thinking. Chess was a great metaphor to work from. I feel better for having read this. I’ve had to stay away for days from everything because the stress was giving me real physical pain.
And thank you to Water Girl and John for their work. John’s column up top also helped me a lot and I so appreciate it. Water Girl has been a great steward.
MikefromArlington
*slow clap*
Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya.
Matt
Shorter Cole: “I’d prefer losing to Trump over winning by NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES”
Nothing “happened” to him: he’s a grown-ass man who looked at the numbers and his health and made his decision.
We’re going on a solid decade of “if you hippies criticize the Democratic party in ANY WAY you’re helping the fascists win” from today’s Biden dead-enders: they should take their own advice and STFU promptly.
Sherparick
@Splitting Image: Or at least used for fire starting tinder or toilet paper. I have been kind of off the comment section of both Balloon Juice and LGM the last 25 days since “event.” I was filled with fear, panic, & anger & those are not the best places to be at & try writing something sensible. So I took break, concentrated on work, star gazing, and birdwatching. It helped.
AndoChronic
I’m still around if it makes you feel better Cole! Went down the RW rabbit hole the last year or so to try and better understand them and to try and alleviate my own anger I have towards them as I hate being angry too. It actually worked to a degree. A bit more empathy and faaar less triggered.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Annie:
That’s Campos. He worked for maybe a year tops at a law firm before CU-Boulder hired him on a tenure track position. Thus, in effect, he’s been an academic his entire life.
His hilariously self-absorbed screeds on his recent travails in academia display an amazing lack of reading the room in terms of internal-politics life in academia. Given his 30 years in that environment, the fact he is seemingly clueless about the ruthless way they’re pushing back on his online screeds about the bogusness of a law school edumacation (or something along those lines), displays either massive arrogance on his part of total lack of self-awareness.
Sis
@Matt: Wow. So you read the front-pagers’ posts and all the commentary about being kinder to people who may disagree with you and thought “What I should really do after I’ve gotten what I wanted is tell the people who wanted Biden to stay on the ticket, almost all of whom are already 100% all-in for VP Harris, to STFU?” Really?
And sorry, I do believe that President Biden, who has delivered astonishing results for this country and who hasn’t actually done anything wrong, has been treated very badly by many in his party. The man deserved much better than three straight weeks of public humiliation.
AnnaC
I have been a years-long lurker/rare-to-never commenter here and really like this place. I’ve thought Biden has been, and is still, a fantastic president and admire him even more for putting country first…the one thing Republicans would never EVER do. My kid (non-binary, trans) going into college this year is excited to vote for Kamala and tells me that lots of young people their age who were not happy with their choices are registering to vote/volunteer for Harris! It gives me a glimmer of hope that with young people, women and many POC voting Harris that the country can be saved from a Trump, authoritarian, fascist hellscape. Just my $0.02, back to lurking now.
K-Mo
@Lynn Dee: I have some thoughts about this stuff, about which I generally agree. But now is not the time to share, at least for me. I’ll remember this stuff until November and be ready to talk then if anybody wants to.
One point I’ll make that I haven’t seen in other comments: a complicating factor is that trolls, even professional trolls, are a reality on blogs like this. So the impetus to shut down trolls isn’t crazy – it was just overapplied.
Barry
John, thank you for writing this.
catbirdman
Amen, brother. I appreciate the humility and humanity. Now it’s time to start firing on the real enemy, DJT!!!
dkinPa
Dead thread, but wanted to say thank you, John, for writing this. This is a fantastic meeting place of amazing people. And, on top of it all, the pastry case is amazing!