Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

I would try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

If America since Jan 2025 hasn’t broken your heart, you haven’t loved her enough.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Come on, man.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Not all heroes wear capes.

If you cannot answer whether trump lost the 2020 election, you are unfit for office.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Our messy unity will be our strength.

If you don’t believe freedom is for everybody, then the thing you love isn’t freedom, it is privilege.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

If you thought you’d already seen people saying the stupidest things possible on the internet, prepare yourselves.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you do not.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Paging IvanX – No, Make That Front-Paging Ivan X

Paging IvanX – No, Make That Front-Paging Ivan X

by | 167 Comments

This post is in: 

IvanX, I have always liked you!  And now even more so.

IvanX

Ok, like, I know I’m being stupid and naïve, but can we not make it so hot and personal in these threads?

Can we not call each other names and insults? We’re all readers of this blog. We might be getting on each others’ nerves, but can we not flay each other?

A) there are a lot of people here who are relieved and/or happy it’s Harris and not Biden. I’m in this camp.

B) there are a lot of people here who are angry it’s Harris not Biden, and feel they, and Biden, were cheated because of how things went down. I’m certainly sympathetic to people in this camp.

The B) camp has had barely a day to process their feelings about a shocking change of situation. I think they’re entitled to some rage and hurt for a period of time. When TaMara tried to give them a space for it, which I see nothing wrong with, I think it’s true that the a) camp came in and told them why they should feel differently. But at the same time, the B) camp has been telling the a) camp why *they* should feel differently, and should instead feel shitty about accepting an undemocratic process that trivializes their participation thus far.

We are not gonna get very far by telling each other how to feel. It’s just not gonna work. We’re definitely not going to get very far with outright hostilities. Let people mourn and grieve, and let people express their relief or happiness. Just keep on scrollng! It doesn’t cost you anything. We are not all gonna feel understood by each other, right now, and we don’t all need to.

WE ARE ALL IN THIS AGAINST TRUMP.

Please, can we let everyone feel the way they feel, and give the wounded some space, so that we move the fuck on and elect Democrats around this country?

 

Reader Interactions

167Comments

  1. 1.

    Gunga Dean

    Harris is raking in the needed donatations AND volunteers AND Endorsements!  Coming from Camp B, I am much reassured.

  2. 2.

    bbleh

    I’ve always said I had confidence in Joe and his camp to do the right thing, and I trust they have, whatever I might have preferred.

    So now YES let us PLEASE focus on the task of, y’know saving American Democracy, among other things such as women’s bodily autonomy, the right to vote, and the right to love whom you wish.  These are, I would submit, more important than our fee-fees about who was Right All Along.

  3. 3.

    hrprogressive

    I understand the idea of eschewing all cable news, but I decided to check out Maddow tonight, and it’s wild how much better the vibes are compared to Debategate.

    Whispers of “2008-like energy”.

    Not sure if I’d go that far yet, but that it’s been brought up is quite a change from where the campaign had been.

    Wouldn’t it be just fantastic if, 16 years after America shocked a lot of people with their first Black President, we do it again, but this time adding First Woman, too?

    Truly, could be quite historic.

  5. 5.

    Mai Naem mobile

    I think a lot of people just need some time to work through the DABDA stages of grief. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and  acceptance.  At this point, I am not past thinking the media and big donors did Biden dirty.

  8. 8.

    WaterGirl

    @hrprogressive: Absolutely.

    But not everyone is ready to move on and celebrate, so let’s just let people take the time to process all of this.  People don’t have to be excited about the change.  I’m still mad as hell, and this yesterday on top of Steeplejack leaves me gutted.  And I’ll bet I’m not the only one.

    But I do know that we have a shitload of work to do before November, so I try to focus on that.

  12. 12.

    Nukular Biskits

    Agreed.

    I supported Biden 100% and I admit I was pissed when he announced he was no longer running.

    But … the thought occurred to me what would be the difference if sometime between now and November Biden was suddenly removed from the race, whether it be from an accident, medical condition, asteroid strike (okay, I’m being silly here but you get the point)?

    WE’D STILL HAVE KAMALA HARRIS.

  13. 13.

    raven

    @Mai Naem mobile:   Kübler-Ross later noted that the stages are not a linear and predictable progression and that she regretted writing them in a way that was misunderstood.[8] “Kübler-Ross originally saw these stages as reflecting how people cope with illness and dying,” observed grief researcher Kenneth J. Doka, “not as reflections of how people grieve.”[

  14. 14.

    hrprogressive

    @WaterGirl: ​
     

    I’m not here to tell people how to feel, just that I am excited and ready to see Harris whoop the Convicted Felon’s ass.

  15. 15.

    Percysowner

    Yeah, I was angry and hurt last night. A good meal, a good night’s sleep, great fund raising and I’m getting over it. I’m still sad for Biden. I think he was a good man, who got screwed. I also think with hard work, Harris can pull this out.

    In better news, I had given Sherrod Brown 24 to back Kamala and he came in under the wire, so I’m somewhat placated. I think the endorsements may be being rolled out for maximum effect. A flood yesterday to reassure people, with some big name holding back so the media HAS to keep reporting on Kamala getting support.

    All we can do is work our asses off to get her, our Senators and our people running for the House over the finish line.

    Also, Lauren Boebert is demanding “Proof of Life” on Biden because apparently Harris either has him tied up in a dungeon somewhere, or he’s dead and she’s hiding it. She is hiding it to help her become President, even though, if he is dead she becomes President. Biden saved us, at least for now, from the worst time line, but we are definitely stuck in the STUPIDIST Time line.

  16. 16.

    WaterGirl

    My Dad used to walk down the long hallway in our apartment and say to his 3 daughters:

    “Why can’t you girls just get along?”

    I will really appreciate it if we can calm the waters at Balloon Juice.  I have barely been able to read it for days and I know i am not alone in that.  We are on the same fucking side – Trump is the enemy, most of the media is the enemy, the big money guys are the enemy.

  18. 18.

    TBone

    It’s the co-dependent in me that always wants to try to boost morale when people feel bad – I hope no one took it the wrong way.  It’s a core part of me that is usually useful.  Without it, I’d still be hooked on opioids or drunk in a gutter somewhere.

  21. 21.

    SpaceUnit

    I keep thinking it’s Sunday because I lost a whole freaking day to incandescent rage, but I’m totally on-board for Kamala.  Let’s carry her across that finish line.

  23. 23.

    tobie

    I still need time to digest everything that’s happened. I’m glad others are excited.

    I just returned from 6 months in Germany, where food in supermarkets is generally much cheaper than in the US. That’s not true any longer. And, compared to where things stood in January when I left for Germany, the price of food in the US has really come down. Thank you, Joe Biden, thank you Dems in Congress for the Inflation Reduction Act. It really worked. I feel like Janet Yellen is an unsung hero of the administration.

  24. 24.

    karen marie

    I saw Ivan’s comment, and I started to reply to let him know I don’t appreciate fucking tone police, that if he didn’t like what someone said, he was free to not read it.  But instead I took my own advice and pied him.

    Your mileage may vary.

  29. 29.

    cain

    It’s settled and I am good with Harris. But the media and the rich donors need to be taught a lesson.

    They don’t get pull off shit like this. I don’t want them think we are cattle. There will be ramifications for them and the Dems who did this. ( We know these Dems are centrists assholes who listen to the big donors.)

  30. 30.

    ssdd

    So per WaPo here’s how it’s gonna work. Note that per WaPo/AP tracking Harris is nearing 1,700 delegates.

    Democratic leaders on Monday laid out a new process for selecting a presidential nominee to replace President Biden through a virtual process that would conclude by Aug. 7, well before the party’s nominating convention in Chicago next month.

    “Working with the Convention Rules Committee, the Democratic Party is prepared to shift the nominating portion of the Convention to an electronic format to ensure that our Democratic nominees for President and Vice President are certified before state ballot access deadlines,” Democratic National Committee chair Jaime Harrison and Rules Committee co-chair Minyon Moore wrote in a memo.

    Party officials said they have ruled out an “in-person contested convention” because of ballot access deadlines, potential Republican legal challenges and the need to vet a vice-presidential candidate.
    The virtual process will be open to any candidate who gets 300 signatures from elected convention delegates, with no more than 50 from any single state. Candidates would also have to show that they are qualified for the job of president and are qualified members of the Democratic Party.

    “As it stands, no candidate has secured a majority of the delegates to the convention,” Moore said.

    The dates for that process will be announced on Wednesday when the convention Rules Committee meets virtually. Voting by electronic ballot could be completed as soon as Aug. 1, officials said.

    If more than one candidate qualifies, then the voting could be completed as late as Aug. 7. A vice presidential nominee may be selected before or after the Aug. 7 date, depending on the desires of the presidential nominee.

  31. 31.

    Starfish

    @TBone: I have no clue how long you have been a commenter here, but I have really enjoyed what you have brought to the comments in the past month or more. I like when you turn things into music threads because I enjoy your musical choices.

  34. 34.

    Betty Cracker

    @tobie:

    I feel like Janet Yellen is an unsung hero of the administration.

    Agreed. She deserves a ton of credit.

  35. 35.

    TBone

    @Starfish: thank you very much for that compliment!  I am still somewhat “new” here.  IDK how long I’ve been here, but it was a lifesaver since I’d given up on all social media and was about to ‘splode! from being silent so long.

  37. 37.

    MagdaInBlack

    I don’t need more time to process. I’m pretty disgusted with all that happened the last few weeks, but this is where we are now and I accept that. I always loved Kamala anyway. So I’m very happy with her being our candidate.

  39. 39.

    Auntie Anne

    @WaterGirl: Yep.  Still gutted here.  I’ll get past it and onto what we absolutely HAVE to do which is beat Trump into the ground.  Just know you aren’t alone, WaterGirl.

  40. 40.

    janesays

    @Mai Naem mobile: I’m not sure you ever have to get past thinking the media and donors did Biden dirty, because they absolutely did do Biden dirty. And I say that as someone who begrudgingly accepted that the whole debacle had gotten to the point where Biden was probably going to be made unelectable by many of his own people (if he wasn’t already) several days before he actually withdrew from the race, even though I was still not yet fully sold on that being the best course of action when it finally happened.

    You just have to get yourself to a place where you’re not letting your (wholly understandable) resentment towards those people distract you from the most important task at hand – getting Kamala Harris elected president and keeping the bloated orange Nazi a million miles away from the nuclear football.

  42. 42.

    Suzanne

    @Starfish: The memes and the fan art are already incredible. Mr. Suzanne notes, “the side that is more excited is the side that wins”. So seeing an outpouring of excitement is incredibly heartening. Excitement breeds more excitement.

    Anecdata: I wore my KAMALA cap to my yoga class. A group of women said that they liked my hat and asked how I got one so quickly. I replied that I had it in reserve, ready to go. Anyway, if that’s proof of anything, the middle-aged white yoga mom cohort is ready for downward-facing dog under a coconut tree.

  45. 45.

    ssdd

    And that should do it.

    Democratic delegates from California unanimously voted to endorse Vice President Harris as the presidential nominee for the party, according to two people on the call. Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) made a motion on the Zoom call; it was seconded
    unanimously by all those on the call.

    The California Democratic Party has done an intensive tally of its delegates since Harris — the state’s former U.S. senator and attorney general — entered the presidential race. Earlier on Monday, a spokeswoman said at least 80 percent of the state’s delegates have pledged to support Harris. California has 496 of the approximate 3,900 state delegates.

  46. 46.

    UncleEbeneezer

    It’s over: A majority of the pledged DNC delegates have now endorsed Kamala Harris, virtually ensuring she clinches the Democratic nomination on the first ballot. The endorsement of California’s delegation just now put her hundreds of delegates over the threshold needed.

    Poor Joe Manchin?!!, lol

  48. 48.

    Scout211

    If you can believe those two anonymous sources . .

    July 22(Reuters) – Former Attorney General Eric Holder and his law firm, Covington & Burling LLP, will conduct vetting of potential running mates for Vice President Kamala Harris’ campaign for the U.S. presidency, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

    I wonder who vetted that Vance guy.

  50. 50.

    Albatrossity

    My respect for Joe, which was already high, is now even higher. He is a great president, an excellent politician, and an even better human being. Now he can campaign as the elder statesman patriot who saved the country, and that will be a legit claim, unlike anything coming from the GOP (aka Confederate/Fascist party). I trust his political instincts; he has the track record to earn that trust.

    He wants to beat Trump and make sure that he is held accountable for his crimes. So do I. We’re in this together, despite our disagreements, That’s why we are Democrats.

  52. 52.

    SpaceUnit

    Here’s something to remember:  In coming days the usual suspects in the media are going to find something that is terrible news for Harris.  They’re going to wave their shitty polls and tell us we’re doomed.

    And I swear if people crap their pants again and start talking about tossing her overboard I am going to climb through the internet and cut a motherfucker.

  55. 55.

    Doc Sardonic

    Would someone please explain the coconut thing to me. These last few weeks have been very taxing on my mental health to the point that I am physically confining myself to my house. So deciphering new memes is beyond my capabilities at the moment.

  56. 56.

    George

    Though my comment may or may not be relevant, I note that people should be cautious about complaining if particular Democrats have not yet endorsed Harris, and might not do so for days or even weeks.

    The game now is to prolong command of the news cycle. It is to keep “Harris ’24” in the news. It is to show a rising if incremental groundswell of support for her, which in turn will help feed a sense of inevitability.

    Any particular Democrat who has not yet endorsed Harris is not bad. Let the process play out.

    Maybe, just maybe, Biden knew exactly what he was doing to delay his announcement until the GOP had shot its wad in Milwaukee and until the Sunday press the meat shows were over. Maybe, just maybe, Biden and Harris and team had worked out a variety of scenarios over the past three and a half years and were prepared.

  61. 61.

    No One of Consequence

    I did want to take a moment to thank some of the commenters here. The showing of ass and the ease of pie filter use have both been a huge boon to me on a personal level, towards the survival of the next few months.

    Shout into the ether fuckers. Harder! Convince my filter of your Ozymandius-level argumentative abilities.

    And if I haven’t heard from you yet, tell me ALL ABOUT your wisdom and undeniable BROness you fantastic little commenters, you.
    -NOoC

  63. 63.

    Bill Arnold

    @janesays:

    getting Kamala Harris elected president and keeping the bloated orange Nazi a million miles away from the nuclear football.

    Re that, racist Russian propagandists have weighed in. A sampler (resolves to a Netherlands IP address, for those concerned.)
    ‘Worse Than a Monkey With a Grenade’: Russian State TV Reacts to Biden’s Withdrawal, Harris’s Presidential Bid (The Moscow Times, July 22, 2024)

    Another guest on Solovyov’s show, Andrey Sidorov, dean of international relations at Moscow State University, blasted the idea of Harris as the Democratic Party’s new nominee.
    “Kamala with the nuclear button is worse than a monkey with a grenade,” Sidorov told viewers.

    To be clear, my opinion of current Russian state propagandists is that they should be field-expedient pithed

  64. 64.

    Scout211

    @Doc Sardonic: NBC

    You think you just fell out of a coconut tree?”

    These words from Vice President Kamala Harris, spoken more than a year ago at a White House event, have been making rounds online in the form of memes since President Biden endorsed Harris as the Democratic nominee — but why?

    First, some background on the Kamala Harris “coconut tree” quote that has been going viral: Back in May 2023, the vice president was giving remarks for the swearing-in ceremony of commissioners for the White House Initiative on Advancing Educational Equity, Excellence, and Economic Opportunity for Hispanics.

    Near the end of her speech, she discussed how “none of us just live in a silo,” and shared some words of wisdom from her late mother, Shyamala Gopalan.

    “My mother used to — she would give us a hard time sometimes, and she would say to us, ‘I don’t know what’s wrong with you young people. You think you just fell out of a coconut tree?’” Harris said with a laugh.

    “You exist in the context of all in which you live and what came before you,” she continued.

    Her “coconut tree” quote ended up becoming a meme, and it resurfaced after Biden announced on July 21 that he would not seek re-election this year and endorsed Harris to take his place as Democratic presidential nominee.

    Coconut tree references have been popping up online, shared by Harris supporters, including some Democratic politicians.

  67. 67.

    prostratedragon

    Of course, it could have been this way all along with either candidate. And as I recall, the Biden campaign was doing pretty well in drawing workers.

    Glad to see Chairman Harrison and his crew have a handle on the process and expect to get it in place before the shock wears off the money faction, so that part of things should go without a hitch.

  69. 69.

    Ivan X

    @karen marie: Thought about what you said a bit. On the chance that you see this, would you mind sharing with me, for my own betterment, in what way I am tone policing? I mean, in my mind, I was asking for us to be nicer to and more tolerant of each other, like Cole did and others have. I’m someone who tries to pick my words so that they don’t hurt others, for better and worse, but if I’m stepping over some line here, or being disrepectful in some way, I want to know about it. I’ll listen openly to whatever response you might have.

  70. 70.

    George

    @SpaceUnit:

     I am totally with you. We all know that the media will start trying to chip away at Harris. Now is the time for unity on our side.

  73. 73.

    MagdaInBlack

    @George: I heard that ” maybe just maybe” scenario you describe, on a podcast earlier. Makes sense, to at least 3 of us.

  74. 74.

    ssdd

    @George: mine just endorsed right now, once she had the delegates, lol. Not exactly a profile in courage but I’ll take it.

  76. 76.

    Suzanne

    @Jay: For context, the most recent coconut tree discourse started with the KHive on Xhitter. It’s becoming a thing for Harris supporters to put a coconut and a palm tree emoji in their nym.

  78. 78.

    Ksmiami

    @WaterGirl: I know it’s a weird thing but I’m gonna write the President a snail mail thank you note. The more I think about this, the more I realize that Biden is an analog to Winston Churchill after WW2. Churchill shepherded a nation through a great trauma, won the war, but then lost re-election because a lot of people wanted to move on. Biden was our post Trump, Post Covid trauma president.

  80. 80.

    lurker

    You are all wrong!

    Especially @w_seattle:  – it is the most important thing to always be right on the internet

    and @George: – you write as if Biden is an experienced politician or something

    …

    I am not a crank!

    ; – )

  82. 82.

    zhena gogolia

    @No One of Consequence: Unfortunately, I’m too curious for the pie filter to be wholly effective, so I actually removed BJ from my browser this afternoon. But I find if I just don’t engage, I don’t get so infuriated.

  84. 84.

    Dagaetch

    Whatever camp you’re in, surely we can all agree on FTFNYT, right?

    Hey, maybe the Harris campaign will decide not to issue them press credentials. And they could run ads encouraging people to donate whatever the subscription cost is instead of getting the paper, and just have daily shares of Pitchbot.

  85. 85.

    MFA

    I am firmly in an unnamed camp: equally happy with Harris as I was with Biden, and angry at the added chaos and turmoil in already trying times that precipitated the swap without clear indication that the result will be materially different. My fellow Democrats all up and down the line besmirched themselves with rampant speculation and Comet Ping-Pong level conspiracies to leverage onto an ice flow the most progressive and effective President of my long lifetime.

    Will this blind roll work? We’ll never know if it did or not. But the damage will take years to assess.

  86. 86.

    Starfish

    @SpaceUnit: I have seen leftists beating up other leftists who want to call Kamala a cop in these mean social media streets. Kumbaya.

  88. 88.

    TBone

    @Jay: we used to actually sing the song in music class in elementary school.  I went to a proper heathen public elementary school, Aronimink (means “beaver” in Lenape) and we danced around a Maypole holding our ribbons and singing every May 1.

    PS I got The Shipping News out of the library today!

    Oh and thank you for The Chicks, I adore! 🥰

  89. 89.

    Starfish

    @Jay: Here’s the thing though. So many people were being so mean that I have no clue what side of anything they are on.

  91. 91.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @raven: Yes.  I’ve known people who’ve definitely not following the DABDA sequence. I just take it as a general process of dealing with some kind of loss, not necessarily a death.

  92. 92.

    Dave Buchen

    Ben Cisco says above: The mission has not changed.

    Harris can win and i believe will win, and if the Democrats get shit done she’ll serve two terms.

    As others have said above There’s a lot of hard work ahead. And there’s always been a lot of hard work for those who want a United States that is just, equal, sustainable, and democratic. Unionizing is hard. Organizing a million women to march is hard. Sitting in federal offices to demand disability rights is hard. Registering black people to vote is hard. Getting guns out of our public spaces is hard. Stopping moneyed interests’ control of our society is hard.

    But we keep doing it, because otherwise the bastards win.

  93. 93.

    Suzanne

    @raven: Sure, everyone can feel however they want to about it. No one has to share the meme if they don’t like it. But it’s a misreading if people have bad faith and assume that those who are sharing it are doing so with racist intent. It went viral because of her supporters, not her detractors.

  96. 96.

    K-Mo

    The pie filter is a thing of beauty.

    I have some thoughts to share about the proper tone, the healthy way to process things, etc.  but you know what?  I’m preemptively pieing myself by just not posting them.

    Let’s go Kamala!

  97. 97.

    SatanicPanic

    Can we agree that Harris is going to do great on the campaign trail? She’ll be bringing a new energy that I think people were missing from the fairly low key Biden campaign. I think that might have been a big part of his low poll numbers. Please don’t get mad at me I’m just trying explain how excited I am for this.

  99. 99.

    Nelle

    @WaterGirl: My phone still has this site on the teeniest, tiniiest font size  (no other site).  About the time that happened, all this craziness broke out.  So I just don’t bother reading it as much – have to save reading it for the laptop.  Which has a broken hinge.  I think the Universe is protecting me.

  100. 100.

    tobie

    @Ksmiami: What an apt analogy. I wrote a message to the White House yesterday but snail mail seems more fitting for a tribute.

  101. 101.

    Ivan X

    @Dagaetch: I was only subscribed to NYT for games, but after the debate unsubscribed to that just so I could be able to tell them that if they’re gonna cover Biden like that after the debate, then give equal treatment to the scumbag, and stop normalizing Republican extremity. I’m sure it was pissing into the wind, but, hey, I felt better. So, yeah, FTFNYT.

  102. 102.

    UncleEbeneezer

    As I mentioned in another thread: a great way to mend fences for the sake of unity would be for the people who pushed out our President against our will to acknowledge that it was a really shitty thing to do and apologize/take responsibility for it.  Just because Dems got in formation fast for Kamala and things are starting to look good (and hooray for that, seriously) doesn’t make what the shit-stirrers did, in any way okay.

    In light of full-throated apologies, which I doubt any of them will offer, they could also just stop being so defensive and making everything about their feelings.  Stop making justifications for what they did.  Stop expecting preferential, kid-glove treatment etc., and accept the fact that they are gonna rightfully be on probation and not-trusted, by many of us here, for a very long time.  That’s just the reality about the choice they made.  Of course we will all work together to elect Kamala.  But working together doesn’t mean we are all expected to re-write history to absolve them of their shitty behavior or promise never to mention it again.

    People will forgive when/if they are ready and nobody gets to demand a guaranteed acceptance or an expedited schedule.  That’s just not how it works.

  103. 103.

    No One of Consequence

    @zhena gogolia: ​
      I understand. I do. One of my best friends saw the debate and was on the JoeGottaGo train before they even started selling tickets. I don’t have Republican friends. And I did my best to explain why that was a significantly bad idea. He wasn’t ever sold. I ain’t mad at him, and I ain’t mad at a lot of my fellow dems. But I am straight-up goddamn done with some of our ‘leaders’. They took a match to a significant amount of trust, like the Joker in the Dark Knight. Well, some of that trust was mine. A currency I hold much more dearly than mere money.

    Karma never allows us to be both judge and executioner. Rarely either individually, but never both. I do, however, try to be observant and heads-up and help Karma out or along whenever I can. I take some solace in that, perhaps some of you can as well.

    Consider: Untimely, but RELENTLESS.
    -NOoC

  106. 106.

    Jay

    @Suzanne:

    It’s being used by the ReThugs as well, without the tree being included. Some Rethug spox said she wasn’t black because her Dad was Jamacan and thus had no history of slavery and Black struggle in America.

  107. 107.

    Starfish

    @Doc Sardonic: Start with everything Suzanne said.

    Basically, supporters are taking any stupid thing that opposers (racist Republican opposers not the ones here) are saying and using it to dunk on them.

    In response to her nomination, a Senator from Hawaii posted a picture of himself in a coconut tree and said “We are ready to help.”

    https://x.com/brianschatz/status/1815175570990276937

    Also, I saw an ad for some LGBTQ+ bar in DC selling $5 Piña Kamala shots the other day.

  108. 108.

    guachi

    @cain:

    the rich donors need to be taught a lesson.

    They don’t get pull off shit like this.

    The donors were finally, finally reflecting the will of Democratic voters who had been saying for months and months that they didn’t want Biden to run. It took the debate for people to finally listen.

    They won’t need to pull shit like this again if politicians actually listened. But if they don’t they can do this again and again.

    Pretending Biden Withdraw was entirely elites, donors, and media tells me whoever thinks it also doesn’t know or care what Democrats and independent voters actually want.

    The Biden Stay people need to acknowledge this reality.

  109. 109.

    OGliberal

    @SpaceUnit: Biden’s team flubbed the aftermath of the debate – too much time spent explaining and making excuses – that gave the story an extended life.  They should have been like, “Yeah, the President has a cold and, you know, he has a stutter, so maybe everything didn’t come out perfectly.  And did you hear what the other guy was saying?  I mean, c’mon!  That’s crazy talk!”  It’s time for the Dems to stop respecting the media or worrying about the media writing mean stuff about them…they’re going to do that anyway since the storyline must always be “Dems in disarray”  That Biden team is now Harris’ team so I hope they learned their lessons.  Brush ’em off and get your message to the voters – fuck the media filter.  The CNN home page right now is a breath of fresh air but Harris is the new shiny object…it will wear off and they will soon be back to their old tricks.  Ignore them and make them look like the idiots and hacks they are.

  111. 111.

    waspuppet

    B) there are a lot of people here who are angry it’s Harris not Biden, and feel they, and Biden, were cheated because of how things went down. I’m certainly sympathetic to people in this camp.

    Can I be GLAD it’s Harris not Biden, and still feel Biden was cheated because of how things went down? Because that’s what I am.

  113. 113.

    Martin

    @cain: I’ll repeat again, I think when this story eventually gets to be told, it’s going to be Pelosi as the orchestrator not the donors or the media. I know that’s going to be really hard for a lot of people to reconcile, but that’s the thing we valued in Nancy Smash – that she put winning ahead of everything, and delivered time and again.

    That’s not a denial that donors need to be addressed because they do have too much power, and the media absolutely have their own agenda as well, but perhaps when these kinds of things happen in the future we won’t fall back on the easy answers and remain a bit more open minded to what is being reported.

  115. 115.

    Jay

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    In light of full-throated apologies, which I doubt any of them will offer, they could also just stop being so defensive and making everything about their feelings.

    Basically, get off the cross, we need the wood to build tiny houses for the unhoused people.

  116. 116.

    OGliberal

    @George: Harris/Biden has dominated the news cycle since Biden’s announcement and after the initial “Dems are doomed”, with all the endorsements and fund raising and Harris’ address to her staff today, it’s mostly good news and good headlines.  I agree to keep dribbling out the announcements and keep up the public events – keep dominating the cycle.  The last couple of days it’s almost like “Trump who?”, except for Harris’ attacks on him, which are just the plain truth.

  117. 117.

    Suzanne

    @Jay: Sure. Racists gonna racist, of course. But most of the usage has been supportive of her to this point.

    There’s a lot of pro-Kamala meme-ing and TikTok-ing right now. There are, of course, bad actors out there. But it also reflects a lot of support and excitement.

  119. 119.

    pajaro

    I was a Biden supporter until the end.  My wife as well.  My brother, whom I respect, wasn’t.  My daughter was.  One of my sons, whose political views I respect, wasn’t. Same divisions with my friends.   It’s hard for me to stay angry knowing that there were people whose political views I respect who thought differently.

    Like so many of you, I didn’t have Biden as even close to my first choice in 2020, and I believe he’s been the best President of my lifetime.  I remember some of the obstacles he had to overcome in his life, so even when he wasn’t my first choice, I admired him as a person.  I was appalled by the media pile on and the obvious donor pressure, and I was worried that this was an effort to take over the party.  And it really pissed me off that, in order to explain why they were acting so late in the game, that some people felt the need to either denigrate the whole idea of primaries or to invent conspiracy theories about the suppression of information by the campaign.  I went to be last night angry, and it took me forever to fall asleep.

    I feel better today.  My worst fears aren’t true.  Thanks in significant part to what I am sure was Biden’s own negotiating, there was a seamless transition to Harris, and the fundraising news shows, whether from renewed enthusiasm, sheer relief that the pain has stopped, or a combination of the above, that the party is united behind Harris.  The party hasn’t been destroyed and we’ve still got a shot.

    I’m not a frequent commenter here, so I really appreciate the chance to have been able to say what I felt as I worked through my issues.  I totally completely respect those who need more time,  I just want to relate why I’m ready to get back into the game.

  120. 120.

    Jackie

    @Jay:

    And the resignation was on paper, not a speech that could be endlessly mined for remote diagnosis.

    I’ve seen RW accusations that Biden’s signature was forged.

  122. 122.

    schrodingers_cat

    Just stop with coconut emojis. I personally find it offensive as person born in India.
    @electicbrotha agrees with me
    White people please retire this coconut nonsense, its a racist allusion calling people of Indian descent brown on the outside but white on the inside. Its like calling Black people Oreos.

    I know a lot of white people’s immediate reaction will be “How dare you call me racist!” (I didn’t), but anyway

  123. 123.

    Tehanu

    @bbleh: ​
      So now YES let us PLEASE focus on the task of, y’know saving American Democracy, among other things such as women’s bodily autonomy, the right to vote, and the right to love whom you wish. These are, I would submit, more important than our fee-fees about who was Right All Along.

    Yes!

  125. 125.

    schrodingers_cat

    @raven: I am some people. Its like being called the equivalent of n word. If people are interested in racist slurs for Indian people refer to what the British used in the colonial times. You will find a treasure trove.

    Tone deaf BJers can then tell us how it is “funny” and cool.

  126. 126.

    Suzanne

    @Martin: I agree with that. Nancy Pelosi reads polls. She knows how to put together a win better than anyone. Data was indicating that Biden was losing support amongst young voters, Black voters, and Latino voters relative to his 2020 win. It was proving to be difficult to recover that support or make it up elsewhere. She lives in an evidence-based world.

  128. 128.

    Jay

    @Suzanne:

    The funny thing is, in the East Asian and Caribbean use of the phrase, it does not refer to a coconut falling out of the tree, but somebody who fell out of the tree while trying to get a coconut.

  130. 130.

    Captain C

    @SpaceUnit:

     In coming days the usual suspects in the media are going to find something that is terrible news for Harris.  They’re going to wave their shitty polls and tell us we’re doomed.

    And I swear if people crap their pants again

    TCFG craps his pants in full view of small huuuuuge rally crowd before giving usual [read: even more unhinged and incoherent than usual] speech.  Here’s why this is terrible news for Kamala Harris. — The FTFNYT

  131. 131.

    lurker

    Putting this out into the ether to see if it manifests something I suppose (I do not believe in manifesting or similar types of things, while I do have a sense that there is something to karma, so my feelings on this are complicated).

    In 2016, I was convinced Clinton would win because Trump was (is) a clown and the American people know better than to go that route.  The idea it would be close enough to allow the fluky nature of reality to give Trump the win was a revelation (negative in impact, but a revelation).  In 2020 I was a fan of both Harris and Biden.  If anyone, my favorite candidate was Warren, due to a combination of smart policy ideas and obvious retail charm.  However, while I gave the country a chance in believing we could elect a woman in 2016, I had no hope the country would go there in 2020 – sufficient country-wide misogyny presented too big a challenge for a female candidate in my opinion.  I was happy with Biden as a candidate and expected he would be better than Obama as a president.  He exceeded my wildest expectations.

    For 2024, I do not clearly fit into camp A or B.  I did not think Biden should bow out of the race.  One, he is old but has performed well.  Two, judgment tends to be one of the last things to go when one loses faculties, so I was not ready to abandon him for what I perceived as some bad moments from someone who stutters and likely still remembers names better than I ever have.  Three, it seemed to me that the time for a change was about a year ago rather than now.  Four, it was difficult to believe that we would not see significant chaos surrounding a change in nominees.  Five, it is always bad to give into bullies, and the media, pundits and other chaos agents were clearly acting individually and collectively as bullies.  Six, I tend to be a bit small c conservative about unexplored terrain.  I am well aware that parties have explored the possibilities of changing nominees late in the process just as a matter of being prepared for issues, but the most recent examples are in senate and house races and I was not convinced this would go well at the national level.

    That being said, it was clear to me that if a change happened, Harris had to be the nominee.  One, the legal hurdles would be substantially easier to avoid for the running mate, as compared to anyone else.  Two, big parts of the party base are invested in Harris as VP, so casting that investment aside would likely crack the party like a raw egg.  Three, no one else would be able to get a campaign up and running fast enough.  I forget who posted a great thread from X about this recently, but I was aware of about half of those points due to other things I encountered through the years in politics, and that thread made it clear that a new campaign now was a non-starter for anyone else as a democrat or independent.  Additionally, look at RFK, with name recognition, substantial resources ($$$) from republican donors and other cranks, and even the help of third parties in some states; RFK is still struggling to be a candidate.  Even with the D party involved, the hurdles to another candidate at this point in time loom like mountain ranges.

    I am both glad that Biden made the decision and sad that he made the same decision and beyond that angry that he made the decision and was forced to make the decision and frustrated that he both made the decision and was forced into it.  The whole ball of emotions is kind of like that previous sentence, jumbled up into a run-on that lacks coherence and sense while repeating itself.  If we could make a three dimensional model of it there would be all sorts of loops and intertwined things flying around in there.

    I do think our country is in much better shape to elect a female candidate this time around, even if that hurdle still remains high, so I am optimistic overall about where this might go.  I also have some personal considerations on this which are not nearly as important.

    We all need some time to process this, even if the way some of us process it involves burning off some energy by phone-banking or postcard-writing while others need some time to howl into the void or take time away from interactions.  Most of us will come around in the end, as we need to in order to make life work for our collective community, and I look forward to that.

  132. 132.

    Suzanne

    @Jay: That’s similar to how Harris used it in the speech, quoting her mom…. “You think you just fell out of a coconut tree?”.

    My mom said, “Did you just fall off a turnip truck?”. Similar vibe.

  133. 133.

    OGliberal

    @Jackie: I would say that Biden being on the phone during Harris’ address to the campaign staff today should lay to rest any silliness but then I remember who we are talking about – “It was recorded under duress!”, “It’s a crisis actor who sounds like Biden!”

    Lunatics.

  134. 134.

    Starfish

    @schrodingers_cat: What do you think about the way some people reclaim words so they do not hold the power that they once did?

    That has happened with the use of the n-word in the black community, the use of the f-word in the gay community, and the use of the c-word with women

    I am just asking because some people really like this and some people really hate it.

  135. 135.

    Auntie Anne

    @Ksmiami: You totally nailed the way I’ve been thinking and feeling tonight.  I feel as though we owe Joe an enormous thank-you note/love letter for all he has done.  And yes, we’re past the trauma of Covid, and the unspeakable daily horror of Trump, and it’s good to move on, but I feel a need to acknowledge the leader who brought us through.

  137. 137.

    Jay

    @Starfish:

    That has happened with the use of the n-word in the black community, the use of the f-word in the gay community, and the use of the c-word with women.

    Shrodinger’s cat is part of the Indian community, one of the minorities that “coconut” is used as a slur from outside the community, and also inside the community.

    It has not been reclaimed and will never be reclaimed. It’s like Oreo in America, or banana in Asian communities.

    Those slurs that have been reclaimed, are for use by the communities that reclaimed them, inside the community that reclaimed them. They are still, not for use outside those communities.

  138. 138.

    Kyle Rayner

    I surprised myself being so excited to vote for Harris instead, considering I was fully content to vote for Biden. I woke up today feeling like I did when Biden won in 2020 – relieved of a weight I hadn’t known I was carrying.

    What remains is a sense of loss, though. The angry variety, that Biden paid for the MSM narrative crimes we’ve been suffering under since Trump first rode in on his stupid golden escalator. But also grief for Biden and how the timing in his life has played out – his own personal losses at pivotal moments in his career, the way his path to the presidency came so late, and how now what he knows he can still do for the country has been confiscated by his advancing years and it no longer matters to the public how much reliable, progressive good he’s doing every day. There’s tragedy in the hand life dealt him this year, the totally unfair natural lifespan sort of tragedy we all eventually come to experience, and it resonates. Being excited about Harris doesn’t really make it easier to process that quickly.

  140. 140.

    Jay

    @Scout211:

    see comment#128 and comment #137.

    While they may be trying to use it “joyfully”, they are using it ignorantly and harmfully to other people where “coconut” is a horrible slur and insult both with in the communities, and from people outside the communities.

    They should use a Palm Tree emoji instead.

  143. 143.

    KatKapCC

    @Starfish: Only people who have been targeted by a slur can choose, if they wish, to reclaim it. Many people using the coconut emoji are white. They do not get to “reclaim” something that was never aimed at them.

  144. 144.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @schrodingers_cat: a while back you mentioned a disinformation game. It was  a Brit University project.  I thought it was interesting and wanted to send it to a friend.  I thought I had bookmarked it but I didn’t.  Do you have a link?

  148. 148.

    Starfish

    @KatKapCC: I didn’t see the emojis because I only see X second hand here and through Slack communities. I saw the long clip of Kamala using the phrase on YouTube and then the use by people who were 100% supporting her.

    I do agree that Twitter is a hotbed of racism so some people probably are being offensive in their usage, but some of this seems like “I object to your in-group identifier because I object to your in-group.”

  152. 152.

    Jay

    @Starfish:

    As I pointed out at #141, if they want to use an emoji with in the K-Hive, they should have used a Palm Tree.

    Using a coconut causes many people pain.

  153. 153.

    Denali5

    I too unsubscribed to the New York Times today. Their treatment of our President was unconscionable.

  154. 154.

    Jay

    @prostratedragon:

    Yeah, and as horrible as slavery was in America, it was much worse in the Carribbean and Guyana. There, slaves were basically disposable “machines”. Your plantation’s slaves all died of malaria with in a year, no problem, just get more. Oh, so this year, it’s cholera, no problem, just get more.

  155. 155.

    Cara

    @guachi: You seem determined to nag until everyone demonstrates concurrence with your opinion.

    Why is it so important to you?

  156. 156.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Martin: Oh, it was pretty clear that someone with a lot of money was up to some nonsense, the whole thing with Biden’s accusations of having Parkisons had been deliberately framed to so it would push out Harris along with any other serious Democratic candidate.  The only problem with their plan was they were idiots, and didn’t have their own replacement candidate in position. It was like they just assumed Senator Awesome Sauce was going to generate out of the quantum foam, or something.

    So, someone, or rather someones who knew how things are done. said “well, if that’s how you want to play…” and proceeded to eat the conspirator’s very expensive lunch, because the answer to “who replaces Biden?” was always “Harris”

  157. 157.

    Manyakitty

    @Kyle Rayner: well said. I liked Kamala before and I fully expected to see her in the Oval for 2028.

    That said, I am still incandescent with rage over the mistreatment of a good, decent, brilliant man, who accomplished massive policy goals and has so many more plans.

    Anyway, what Kyle said.

  158. 158.

    stacib

    @Starfish: I don’t know about the others, but the “N” word in black neighborhoods is really not as accepted as some seem to believe.  Maybe in a particular culture, but if you want to piss me (and most folks I know) off, come on around with that kind of thinking.  Poison in a perfume bottle is still poison.

  159. 159.

    Yutsano

    @tobie: ​ I feel like Janet Yellen is an unsung hero of the administration.

    Agreed. She’s been my best boss at Treasury since I started at the IRS.

  160. 160.

    Sister Golden Bear

    There’s also was a Camp C, people like me who were/are pissed at how “Biden is old” was allowed to turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy over three weeks, but relieved that our fears about replacing him were unfounded, and heartened to see the party coming together for Harris.

    But simultaneously recognize some people do need time to process, and that there’s still fears that if Harris isn’t magically 5-10 points ahead in the next polls that the pundits and power brokers will be pushing to oust her as well (though as of tonight that looks far less likely). And that neither sentiment was being heard, let alone acknowledged or respected, by some of the Camp A folks, and in fact some of them went out of their way to be ungracious in victory — as in the thread that had to be closed. There is such a thing as “too soon” and sometimes people do need some time and space. Also that there’s a big difference that “I’m really excited and I hope you’ll join me when you’re ready” vs. the beatings will continue until morale improves.

    Let’s all have a little more grace towards each other, plus do more learning how to read the room.

  161. 161.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Starfish:

    What do you think about the way some people reclaim words so they do not hold the power that they once did?

    I won’t speak for schrodinger’s cat, but there’s a huge difference between those who were the target of a slur reclaiming it, and people who never targeted it, using it, even if it’s in the reclaimed sense.

    Also, within minority communities, reclaiming can be controversial and not everyone is on board with doing so. In the LGBTQ communities, there’s definitely some older gays and lesbians who hate being called queer, and hate that the word has become a synonym for LGBTQ.

  162. 162.

    Quantum man

    @SpaceUnit: Yes. This is the calm before the shitstorm. The orcs are coming. Best prepare now and not allow ourselves to be suckered into more groundhog days of arguing.

  163. 163.

    Chris Johnson

    @Suzanne: Yes.

    To the best of my knowledge and understanding, it’s the following, inclusive:

    -it’s a little parable either Harris or her mom use to remind us that history matters and our heritage is building upon what we have to build with, what came before us, along with where we can take it (our hope and courage for the future). It’s a hell of a moving parable, exactly right for this historical moment as we do just that.

    -it’s the repurposing of a historical slur, the idea that someone can be ‘not black enough and white on the inside’ or ‘not really black’, which was never something that came from ‘one drop of blood’ white racists, rather from the black community. Kamala Harris is repurposing this slur and assigning a different meaning to it, one that competes with the slur meaning.

    -it’s a wedge used by working trolls in an attempt to cause chaos: if people can be convinced that any coconut references actually are racist, confusion can be produced and purity-testing can be imposed. And getting left wingers to attack themselves on purity testing grounds is pretty fertile grounds, especially given…

    -posting of coconut emojis and memes, in the youth, closely parallels the posting of Pepe The Frog memes in 2016, except that it has the literal opposite meaning in every instance I’ve yet seen. Any young person saying they are ‘coconut pilled’ and posting emojis means they are getting Obama-level enthusiasm for supporting Harris, and it’s taking off. It’s like breaking a dam of pent-up hope, and the fundraising only reinforces this. Coconut memes are GOOD. Emojis are a GOOD sign, in no way a bad sign or an indication of racism. They are an endorsement, in meme terms.

     

    Anytime you’d like to make a young person’s day, and they’re asking you (uncertain) whether you are in support of Kamala Harris, you can reply ‘do you think I just fell out of the coconut tree?’ and you’ll probably get a big hug.

    Pritzker replied to a media person floating the idea of him competing for the nomination, with ‘do you think I just fell out of the coconut tree?’ and even _I_ got it and was won over by his response. The levels of meaning in the reference are… chef’s-kiss.

  164. 164.

    Chris Johnson

    Also: I don’t post memes or emojis, and I’m white, so never in hell am I going to post such an emoji or meme. I’m not a yoot. I don’t communicate that way. Communicate from your own authenticity, not someone else’s. Just because I’ll fiercely defend the characterization of young leftists, finally seeing hope, and erupting in memes, doesn’t mean it’s appropriate for me to act like they act.

    It is however appropriate for me to draw attention to the fact that they are Kamala Harris SUPPORTERS, and often draw from her additional contextualization of the image.

  165. 165.

    Eolirin

    @Ivan X: I know I’m super late to this, and you may never see it, but your assertion that the people upset about what happened to Biden are telling the people who aren’t, and who have been posting in a way that had been disrespectfully pilling on to a bullshit and upsetting media narrative for weeks despite the fact that it was clearly making people angry, what to feel is way off.

    People are expressing hurt and anger and asking people to shut the fuck up for a little but I’m not seeing anyone telling people to feel the same way.

    And there’s two other really big issues here:

    One, the handful of problematic people who’ve made everyone on this side of things furious for weeks were never behaving in a way that was okay. It wasn’t really ever about thinking Biden should step down. It’s about how they were communicating. If we had stricter moderation, they wouldn’t be here anymore.

    Because it wasn’t about them holding a point of view. It was about them jumping into just about any comment thread with driveby polling data or to repeat the same tired argument that got people upset and had already been responded to, at length, to a group of people who were pissed off and upset at how the media and the democratic party was behaving. Over and over again. Like, we had just had an injury and the same small handful of people kept poking it saying “Does this hurt?” over and over again.

    There are going to be things like bad polling for Harris (there even currently is). If anyone were to do what they were doing during the media run up to Biden stepping down those people would be jumped on by almost everyone as acting inappropriately, and being completely awful.

    If they were to bring up the negatives that might cost us the election everyone would rightfully recognize that those negatives are rooted in sexism and racism, just like Biden’s were rooted in ageism and ableism; right now anyone bringing those things up the way they were will rightfully be accused of Doomerism and told to shut up, just like people were being when Biden was still the nominee.

    We can talk about those things possibly being an issue with the electorate, in time anyway, but anyone buying into them, like a few posters did for the issues around Biden, would get banned from the blog. Ableism doesn’t get you banned here. Racism does. As someone with a disability don’t think this double standard is lost on me.

    Whether the people calling for Biden to step down were right or not was always irrelevant. There were responses from the pro-Biden side that were also way over the line. But none of this went down in a way that would have been tolerated if we had standard levels of community moderation. It has led to even higher levels of upset in this community than would have existed. I could repurpose every comment those people were making, swapping out the relevant words for Harris and whatever polling numbers come out, or replacing her weakeneses for his, and if I spent three weeks posting them everyone here would also want me gone.

    Two, posts like yours continue to fail to grapple with why people are upset.

    They fail to grapple with the extent to which the Democratic party, the media, and the electorate, all just violated a central tenent of how some of us view politics, which is that when someone has your back, you have theirs.

    This is how minority politics has to work, though it applies to other groups as well, because so frequently your elected officials, regardless of them being the better alternative, will throw you under the bus when you’re inconvenient, and the ones that don’t, you really need to fight to keep in place. Watching ostensible allies cut and run instead tells us that they’re not actually reliable allies.

    As an example, as trans rights becomes an increasingly large issue, the people willing to publicly step away from Biden, who weren’t willing to fight back, we, in that community, can have zero faith they’re not going to say trans people being able to live also isn’t as important as beating fascism.

    And then we just end up at fascism one slice at a time, as each vulnerable group gets cleaved off into oblivion one by one and the coalition shrinks, instead of all at once. Without solidarity and a sense of reciprocity to the people who’re doing the work to keep us safe that’s where we end up. We can only trust people who demonstrate a sense of loyalty under pressure, because we know we’re going to be a source of pressure.

    People in more comfortable situations and who have more privilege or fewer existential threats can take a more consumerist approach to politicians and shop for preferred policy outcomes and treat officals as effectively fungible. I’m happy for anyone to be able to operate at that level of detachment, and I’m not going to say you should be any other way, but y’all are gonna come across as vaguely sociopathic (on this topic and only in this topic) to those of us who aren’t.

    So as a general rule of thumb, when someone is under siege that we feel has our back, if you’re going to offer dispassionate suggestions about how to maximize electoral outcomes by dropping said person, you should probably just stay away from the conversation if you don’t want to get dragged into conflict over it. And a lot of you did that, and I broadly appreciate it.

    I don’t mind there being a difference of opinion there. But you’re not going to convince a group of people that view loyalty as a central tenant of politics to advocate for stabbing someone who’s been doing right by them in the back. They’re gonna want to fight the attempt all the way, even if they’ll pivot to, in this case, supporting Harris without blinking. I don’t see any of the people who were supporting Biden say they’re not 100% behind Harris. We all are. We’ll all fight. We’re also going to be pissed as hell that we ended up here.

    And as a final note, not everyone holding to this view that’s upset right now is actually a minority or vulnerable group, but for those who are, we’re also seeing a bunch of people demonstrate they’d pick convenience over our safety. As a trans person, some people here have already made it very clear that they’d happily throw us under the bus to get their desired political outcomes. As someone with mental health issues and disabilities, I’ve seen the same. And in this particular case, I’ve seen some gross and ableist attacks coming from places I wouldn’t have expected to see them. We can’t trust people like that to be consistent enough allies.

  167. 167.

    WaterGirl

    @schrodingers_cat: I’ve gotta say that I agree with SC on this.  Except for calling it nonsense.

    You can tell me all day long that it’s fine to call someone the c-word because it’s not offensive in England, but if I find it offensive, then you shouldn’t call me that.

    Perhaps the coconut stuff is a bit like the N-word.  A black person can call themselves that, or call a friend that and the friend is fine with it, but we shouldn’t be using that word under any circumstances.

    SC is part of the BJ community and she has been for a long time; it doesn’t seem to much to ask for the white peeps to not use a cultural term that she finds offensive.  If cain wants to use it, more power to him.

    That’s my two cents, anyway, as long as we are all sharing our opinions.

Comments are closed.