I still feel kind of numb from the weekend’s events. As I said on twitter and in the comments last night, I played enough team sports and was in the army long enough that I know to put myself below the needs of the many to achieve a goal, and I am legit excited about VP Harris becoming the nominee and will rally enthusiastically around the candidate. Having said that, I am still pissed at what happened to Joe Biden. He was never my first choice I don’t even think my 5th in 2020, but he has been a great President and this was just wrong. We have a process and we have rules and that is how we choose nominees and this bothers me. Millions of people voted for Joe Biden and donated to Joe Biden and he won the nomination. And spare me the “He chose to withdraw” bullshit.
I’m not sure if you noticed, but I’m a dance with the girl that brung you kind of guy. I’m also risk averse, and believe the reason you make plans and have procedures is so you can follow them when needed rather than just make shit up on the fly. And on a more basic and gut level, I feel like they did Biden dirty.
But I can’t control any of that and in the end beating Trump is what matters. And I know some have not been gracious in the comments here and that I upset some of you last night. At least once a week, and let me reiterate, AT THE VERY LEAST, once a week Watergirl wants to put a fist through the wall because I have either heavy handed something or not paid the right amount of attention to or vacillated over what to do with someone misbehaving or acting the fool in the comments or I’m acting inconsistently. I’ve always been of the opinion that what people say reflects on them, not others, and also equally committed to the belief that assholes often make great points. So yeah, trying to keep everyone happy when there are thousands of unique personalities and beliefs, often times at odds with each other, is not easy.
So yeah, things are a mess and emotions are raw and I am a little confused and blindsided by events. At the same time, I am genuinely thrilled that for the most part people have rallied around Kamala. I thought Biden stepping aside was not optimal, but there was no way Biden and Harris stepping aside would do anything but rip the party apart forever, so I suppose this is the best case scenario in that regards.
And I’m pissed at the media and the pundits. The pile-on and ageism was gross.
So yeah, conflicted. But optimistic, maybe?
Renie
I’m pissed Obama hasn’t endorsed her outright.
John Cole
@Renie: Obama is always slow to endorse remember people yelling at him in 2020?
Spanky
@Renie: I’m going to be waiting for another shoe to drop until the balloons drop on Doug and her on the last night of the convention.
AnnaN
Optimistic as well. Everyone I know is fine with this. I also think that this won’t really change the outcome of the election. There is a fundamental personality disorder with anyone who says they are undecided at this point. They want the attention. They want to appear to be intelligent and thoughtful. They are just contrary individuals. Pick a reason or all of the reasons because if facts, logic, past performance, have not forced a decision by now that anti-Trump is the only way to vote then nothing will sway these people. It’s not about the candidates at this point. It’s about democracy vs. theistic oligarchy.
khead
You’re good with me John. This is the only blog I hang out that actually seems to give a shit about acting in/with good faith toward its denizens these days. Plus, I just wanted to use denizens in a sentence. Nice post.
ssdd
Pritzker just endorsed Harris. Notable as he was one of the people being floated as a possible nominee. Good for him.
dmsilev
A very minor side note, but war-criminal-Netanyahu is visiting Washington this week and …nobody is going to notice, all things considered. Bet it burns him up.
mali muso
Also feeling a bit numb. Still angry about the media feeding frenzy and circular firing squad of the past several weeks. But Kamala Harris was my first choice in 2020 and I’m happy to have her on the top of the ticket. Mainly I’m just relieved to see the party finally fall in line quickly and hopefully to shut down the disarray. As for the precedent this whole thing sets, I dislike it greatly. We need better media, smarter voters, and less money in politics. Also I would like a pony.
Spanky
@dmsilev: He has a meeting with MVP on his schedule. I’m guessing that might have a bit more import for him than it did yesterday.
cain
I’m pissed and also very sad. But mark my words, there will be a reckoning. We are unified until MVP is President Harris and it will happen. But after that, I want a roster of folks that decided that donors were more important than the base. Those will need to get primaried. I’m sick of these kind of Dems. They aren’t sufficiently afraid of us. Maybe Joe had to go, but nobody made the case to us directly. We are not cattle to be led around.
But donors are not happy with Harris. But they can only do that action once. You try it again, and 50 state parties are going to be gunning for you.
With all that said, Go Harris!!
Jinchi
@ssdd: Newsom and Buttigieg endorsed her as well, which is especially important, since so many pundits were fantasizing about them in their “blitz primary” fantasies.
RobertS
Biden left the race on his own terms. Respect.
Take a look at who we’re getting: ( Kamala Harris & Mindy Kaling Cook Masala Dosa)
https://youtu.be/xz7rNOAFkgE?si=I4ol9Q8e-ZIP5WwV
This woman is a gem. We should be so lucky.
Old School
True. Which is why I certainly hope “they” know what they are doing.
Renie
@John Cole: Yes but already the media is all over it. Not a good look after all the anti-Biden media b.s.
cain
@mali muso:
The only way to get better media is to stop watching 24 hour news, stop all subscriptions – the media needs to pay a price for this bullshit even more than the Dem leadership.
Can we all agree to stop giving these people are clicks, viewerships and subscribership?
This is something we can absolutely control – as it is our personal choice.
nomokesh
I was tossing and turning last night until I found my Happy Place Thought. It may help in these times:
I have no clue at all what Tucker Carlson thinks about all of this.
piratedan
@khead: its a good word to be partial to, I try to mix in “cahoots” and “skulk” whenever I can.
mrstealyourcostcosample
I am shocked and thrilled that Kamala appears to be a consensus choice across stakeholders. I was a little worried about the white dudes and Bernie bros but they seem all the way in.
actual party unity would be incredible: so much of what got Trump over the line was wedging the coalition juuuuuust enough in 2016.
it is very sus that the folks who spent years calling Joe an old shit-eater are putting him on Mount Rushmore, but that’s the kind of thing I can somewhat forgive if there is unity amongst allies going forward. if we have the right “who” I can let go of the shitty “how” we got here.
AnnaN
Oh! As a lame duck now, what will Dark Joe Biden do in the remainder of his term? It is to giggle.
WereBear
At least we didn’t have Brick Oven Bob. But was he a troll? We could never figure it out.
I appreciate our Blog Father’s commitment to free speech. That is the American Way. And it does cause problems.
But the other problems are worse. So there we are. Because they wanted to cut the head off the ticket, and instead, we get a surge of energy and fundraising while creating a giant wave of love to OUR President.
And look how quickly we all did it!
Jeffro
I’ll see your 100% committed and raise you 25% ;)
LET’S GO TEAM BLUE!!!
thruppence
Some folks say that they want a transparent democratic process. We had one. We voted for Biden/Harris. Now they want to toss that? For who? Why? I dread watching the news tonight.
Fair Economist
I’m fine with the top honchos delaying endorsing Harris. That lets her team say she won an open process. After the massive support for her yesterday from the grassroots, party chairs, and other electeds, she’s going to win the nomination. As several have said, nobody’s stepping in front of this train.
Tdjr
I too am unhappy with the chain of events. All I can think of is that Joe truly is ill and that they did this for his own good. I also believe in unicorns too.
stacib
Boy oh boy have I spent a lot of time thinking about all that happened this weekend. I’ve come to the conclusion is that a huge part of my anger is I feel suckered by the Democratic party, and even more so at myself for believing their rhetoric. Democracy, my ass. I’ve spent the better part of my adult life convincing folks that their votes matters, and today, I look like an idiot to each and every one of those folks. 14,000,000 million votes were just tossed because people who are least likely to be affected pounded the drums until they got Biden to do their bidding, and now I’m expected to jump on their next bandwagon. Demoralized doesn’t even begin to describe my feelings today. Biden was always my first choice, and I’ve long been of the opinion that KH will not make a good candidate. I hope y’all are right, and I’m wrong but I don’t think so. In 2016, I suggested to my friends that we should stop laughing because trump could win. Everybody said I was insane. I don’t think this election is the lock the Democrats are trying to convince the masses it will be.
hrprogressive
I find myself of the “Fuck every single assclown who forced Joe Biden to step down and helped drive the ‘He Can’t Win’ narrative enough that it became a self-fulfilling prophecy and I won’t forget any of them and their stabbing of Joe in the back” opinion
But, also too, the:
“Fuck yeah, a lot of important people and a shit ton of regular people are ready to jump on the Harris Train, full stop, likely avoiding any bullshit contested convention, neutering the donor class in a way they weren’t expecting, eliminating the “but he’s old” rhetoric, encouraging young “not gonna vote for Biden but hell yeah I’ll vote for Harris” people to vote, and quite possibly giving us the first POTUS who is both a woman and a woman of color which is the exact opposite of the Fascist Republican Party’s plans for White Supremacy” opinion.
Can hate what they did to Joe and the way they ratfucked the process.
Can also be super energized and excited to elevate Madame Vice President Harris to Madame President Harris.
Let’s fucking go. Let’s win now, and sort the seedy shit out after she’s inaugurated.
Joseph Nobles
The rally around Harris I interpret as the base of the party saying, “OK, you idiots, you made ‘Biden old’ happen. Now sit the hell down while we fix this.” That’s what’s going on in my mind, anyway.
stacib
@RobertS: Biden DID NOT leave the race on his own terms – his party turned against him and left him no choices.
Virgogenes
My Washington Post headline was something like “Attention turns to Biden’s continuing fitness to hold office after he steps aside for re-election.” Whose attention exactly? Fuck ’em.
And anyone who tries to stop KH needs to be shitcanned
mali muso
@cain: Oh for sure. I almost wish I had held subscriptions to any of those fuckers, just so I could have cancelled them. As it is, I already don’t give them any traffic, but agree that collectively, we need to figure out a way to neutralize them.
Gusnite
I am with you 100% and am still pissed as hell at the media and so-called Democratic leadership. And someone let me know if I missed it, BUT WHERE THE HELL IS OBAMA?
His stock in my portofolio has dropped by more than half in how he has handled himself. I believe he could have gone a long way toward calming the waters and didn’t do it. Shame.
And while we’re at it, Biden was more effective and better president than Obama. Go ahead and pile on folks but it’s the truth.
rikyrah
Running Mate…
ABSOLUTELY NO SENATORS
PERIOD.
We won’t win Kentucky, so why even consider the Governor.
We need Michigan and Pennsylvania.
Those Governors should be at the top of the list.
Belafon
@cain: A reporter on GMA said that most big donors have said that while Harris wasn’t their favorite, but it’s time to get behind the nominee. As the reporter said that, a chyron said that one big donor wouldn’t donate if Harris was the nominee scrolled below her, but it didn’t say who that was.
ssdd
@Jinchi: yup. Dems in array!
rikyrah
This this
100 times this
Even if we pull this off in November..
I will never NOT be bitter about what they did to the best President in my lifetime.
Chris
@John Cole:
Obama’s desire to be the one floating effortlessly above all factional disputes rather than sullying himself by getting into them has always been his shittiest trait, and this is a byproduct of it.
Jinchi
What open process? There’s no way to send this back to the voters at this point, and I really don’t care to have a group of insiders and mega-donors choosing the next president. Their “cleverness” has been exceedingly bad in my experience.
Harris was on the ticket with Biden. The possibility of her stepping in to replace him if he became incapacitated was already priced in. She’s got my vote and it’s time for the party to stop the nonsense.
trollhattan
I plop this squarely in the media’s laps, for putting their magnifying glasses squarely on Biden and sound-biting his every gaffe, while cutting Trump’s vast spewing of lies, gaffes, mumblings, meanderings as “Trump being Trump and we’re past that. Old news.”
Dropping out feels both like betrayal and necessary, because they were not about to let up and with that second “debate” (whatever the shitshows are best described as) looming, it would only get worse.
It’s also possible that Biden’s covid fight is worse than we know.
Anyway, not pleased but ready to move on now that the lever has been pulled. VP pick importance perhaps more heightened than usual and I hope Harris is ready for her boss’s treatment because here it comes. They’re not going to begin covering Trump as they ought to.
Al Rennick
John, this is just plain stupid.
Were Pelosi, Schumer, Obama et al simply supposed to stand by and watch Biden lose in a landslide while dragging down both chambers of Congress with him? Thanks to their intervention, Democrats now have a fighting chance against Trump.
matt
I’m just glad we can all get back to fighting the right people.
VFX Lurker
@cain:
I’m keeping my Los Angeles Times subscription for its local and state reporting. I made a point of not clicking on any of its Biden articles.
I may drop my Talking Points Memo subscription when it expires next year, however. Josh Marshall disappointed me this month.
Everyone in my pie filter will remain in my pie filter. Most of them showed their quality earlier this year, before the recent drama.
Belafon
@cain: We need to start picking a few media outlets, NPR being an obvious first choice, and have a whole lot more people donate. The left is never going to have a billionaire who will buy a media outlet to make sure it provides liberal views of the news, so it’s going to be up to us.
FastEdD
My friends from CA, Iowa, Texas, and Oregon are stoked and motivated to rally around Harris. No time to be angry, over the next hill, even though it is a big one to climb. It is going to get really ugly over the next few months.
Jeffro
@rikyrah: yup. Michigan, Pennslyvania, or North Carolina.
Chris
@mali muso:
One of my Dad’s friends in what I call the NPR-brained set forwarded a video of Fareed Zakaria this morning talking about how we should actually go back to selecting candidates in smoke-filled rooms full of smart people who understand important things like “electability.”
It didn’t take long. The media and donor class are absolutely not going to let this go, and if we win this election, it’s only going to reinforce their view and be held up as an example of “see, we threw out the primary results and everything worked out fine! We should do this every time!”
suzanne
I feel like this had to be the outcome. I feel like many people voted for Joe in 2020 with the precondition in their minds that one term was it. And we all heard him make statements about being a bridge to the next generation but not make any commitment to one term, but lots of people convinced themselves that he was just not saying it outright due to political concerns.
The widespread sentiment has been people saying that they did not want a Biden/Trump rematch. They wanted to move past this era. It’s terrible that this became so messy and dramatic. I wish it had been different.
trollhattan
@WereBear: I thought BOB was a legit racist lunatic Republican fanboy while BIP was a St. Petersburg troll from scalp to lacetops.
And I can’t recall the handle for BRINKS TRUCKS, who was at least mildly amusing.
Paul W.
Could not be worried less about Obama endorsing, YET. There seems to be a rollout planned, and also it would be a good way to keep the dollars coming in… as of me writing this Actblue raised $80m in the last 24 hours and we aren’t even up to the 3pm 24 hours since the Harris endorsement yet so could easily break $100m for Dem candidates in small donors alone!
Pritzger, Whitmer just endorsed so it seems like the most media-favored folks are biding their time a little bit before closing the window. Adds drama, I have no doubt Obama is going to endorse Harris.
Jeffro
Jon Meacham: Joe Biden, My Friend And An American Hero
“What happens next is up to you” – never more true than today, Ds. Let’s go win this thing!!
Belafon
@stacib: And I hate all of that and the people who made it happen, and yet there’s still only one party with the platform I support and the people in it that I want to side with, and that’s the Democratic party. Any other option rather than getting Democrats elected anywhere is defeatism and we don’t have time for that.
Gregory
And I’m pissed at the media and the pundits. The pile-on and ageism was gross.
Same, brother. Same.
Sis
@RobertS: He was pushed out after being publicly humiliated for three weeks. I’m all-in for VP Harris, and I’ll be knocking on as many doors as I can, but President Biden was treated horribly by many in his own party after he saved the country and democracy. This has been an absolutely shameful episode. I’ve read that he feels personally betrayed by the recent actions of many Democrats, and I don’t blame him a bit.
WereBear
@suzanne:
I think there’s a lot to that, because just a few weeks ago we had a discussion on how Pandemic memoirs aren’t selling.
All the trauma. People aren’t ready yet. Apparently rabid Trumpists don’t feel that way, but I think everyone else does.
Sis
@Gregory: You can add me to that list, too.
Jeffro
@rikyrah: reposting this from the previous thread (minus my lame copyright joke =)
Vance = trump’s pipeline to billionaire techbros who don’t give a shit about you. They just want to keep monetizing your kids’ depression and our national divisions.
ssdd
Whitmer endorses Harris. She was the last of the possible serious challengers for the nom.
Belafon
@Al Rennick: Had the party leadership stood up the day after the debate and said “Yes, it started out bad, but he finished strong and Trump is a lunatic” and repeated that, they could put a brake on it. You know, like Republicans do. But they didn’t. They sat back. It was the black women who defended Biden.
Steve LaBonne
I’m not calling anyone out, but I just wanted to point out that I voted for the Biden / Harris ticket in the primary, and with Harris’s nomination being practically a done deal already, I don’t feel at all as though my vote is being thrown out.
mrstealyourcostcosample
@Al Rennick: be gracious in victory.
jerk
Sis
@FastEdD: There was no excuse for publicly humiliating a great man and a great President this way. I can be absolutely furious while supporting VP Harris 100%; I’d order my yard sign and bumper sticker, but I’m waiting until she has her VP nominee.
Dagaetch
Really? I’ve appreciated his relatively sober minded takes on everything.
mrstealyourcostcosample
@Jeffro:
Vance is essentially the first 4chan national politician
trollhattan
Something I endorse: Trump freaking the fuck out.
You can envision it so easily.
Chris
@mrstealyourcostcosample:
The Berniebros were fine. The centrists were the concern.
The speculation I’ve read on Murc’s tumblr (one of the voices of sanity at LGM) this morning is that the donors didn’t want either of them, but Biden made it clear that if the party didn’t unify behind Harris, he’d stay in all the way to November.
Good for him if true, and I hope the consensus doesn’t break by nomination time.
RobertS
@stacib: If there is anybody worthy of your ire, its the NYT and the big media companies. The rank and file got behind Joe. The press was re-running “But Her Emails”, the sequel. I don’t know that he was ever going to transcend the torrent of bullshit, and what’s worse, he’s running against a diminished old nazi who’s obviously nuts. How do you thread that needle? “We’re both old, but he’s crazy”?
Kamela Harris has to swim against a tide of racism and misogyny. We also know that Trump’s base of troglodyte voters is at most 47%. If our people vote, she’ll be the president.
As others have reminded us, Trump has been running against Biden for seven years. He’s got nothing besides “Joe is old”. Harris is well positioned – young and sharp. It’s gonna be fun watching the MAGAts twist themselves into pretzels over “Harris is Indian”, which is somehow bad for Harris, but good for Usha Vance.
I adore Joe. He’s been a fantastic president. We owe him a debt. My bet is that his recent bout with COVID has changed the way he looked at this. His final act in American politics is launching Kamela Harris. I think he know’s what he’s doing.
Omnes Omnibus
Aside from the fact that I was a pretty early supporter of Biden*, I am basically in the same place as Cole.
*I originally supported Harris and landed on Biden in January of 2020 once Harris dropped out.
hrprogressive
@Steve LaBonne:
Louder for those in the back.
Sis
@Al Rennick: This was a neck-and-neck race at a time when Dems have consistently overperformed polls in elections for at least the past two years. (Remember the Red Wave?) And to treat a great President this way after all he’s done for this country was absolutely despicable. I’m disgusted with many public figures I formerly admired.
Chris
@stacib:
It’s a special kind of nauseating watching the people who have spent the last four weeks refusing to show any party unity or discipline at all suddenly lecturing everybody about the need for party unity and discipline.
Jackie
@Renie:
Obama will endorse her! He’s waiting for the right moment to make the biggest impact.
Patience.
narya
@Omnes Omnibus: Can I come sit by you?
No One of Consequence
Harris had best dance carefully with this crowd. Our Respected Party Leaders and Elites have quite recently shown us their Natures (and inadvertently. their Asses). Politics ain’t beanbag, but these fuckers cannot be trusted.
I’m probably the MOST infuriated by that aspect of this whole thing.
Followed only slightly behind is the disenfranchisement of the primary voters. Willing. With Malice Aforethought. Bold enough to attempt to skip over the other half of the ticket. Abandoning rules we all agreed on before the campaign started.
Fuckers. DEMOCRATIC Fuckers. That hurts me too. Thought the only real political danger in America these days was Republican Fuckery. Whilst I am certain we are shortly to be given a whole next level of discourse on that topic from the Right for the next 4 months in particular, my disappointment in the Party Powers cannot be overstated.
Once this passes, hopefully with Democracy retained, I want the ledgers balanced. Many of our Leaders need to be shown to the exits. Thank you for your service you Backstabbing Bitches. Because of that service, we refrain from defenestration, and will allow you to leave your office on your own two feet. Make haste.
Damnit.
-NOoC
trollhattan
@Jeffro:
My desire to have Mayor Pete shredding Vance like today’s carnitas platter lunch special, at a VP debate–“I went to Harvard too, and actually attended class”–probably can’t be satisfied once we have the ultimate choice, but I can still smile imagining it. Clint talking to a stool would have nothing on that.
RobertS
@trollhattan: The Freak-out is a very good sign.
Jinchi
I think that’s going to backfire on him now. It’s really hard to miss the fact that Trump is looking elderly and unwell.
mrstealyourcostcosample
@Chris: I agree they were fine. the centrists are always disappointments to me, so I guess the bar was lower.
it was a pleasant surprise! here’s to more pleasant surprises in the name of unity. perhaps the differences in the coalition are somewhat exaggerated and we can all hold the line for six months!
PJ
@Al Rennick:
The debate was just a bad first 20 minutes. Everything Biden did after that was fine. By not supporting Biden, and ignoring the media BS, and instead agreeing with it, as their rich donors dictated, the Democratic elite made the “problem” into an actual problem, forcing Biden to stand down. Trump did way worse than Biden in the debate, and subsequently as well, but Republicans never ever said he had to stand down. If these Democratic politicians had had any spine, Biden would have been fine.
ETA: @Belafon: said it better than me here.
trollhattan
Let us savor.
https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1815186790422032871
Donald
DNC rules encourage but don’t require delegates to vote for the candidate they’re pledged to support. Instead, the rules say, “All delegates to the National Convention pledged to a presidential candidate shall in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them.”
I have been a fan and supporter of Joe Biden for years, but it was clear that his performance at the debate and subsequent inability to assuage concerns for many in the small, weirdly undecided middle was going to give the election to the Republicans. He should have embraced the role of transitional president and not sought a 2nd term.
This was the right decision by Biden and will redirect the focus of the campaign to where it needs to be: the unsuitability of Trump and his MAGA Republicans to be anywhere near the reins of power in Washington, DC.
OId Man Shadow
We have a winner.
Let’s not pretend that Joe Biden stepping aside is some noble heroic sacrifice. He was tossed out. He was tossed out by a combination of the media, party leadership, and people who refused to rally and fight for him and instead gridlocked the campaign and repeated GOP attacks on the man.
They all might want to memory hole that shit now, but I remember it.
And everyone might all be happy now, but I half-expect another backstabbing if Ms. Harris isn’t the magical Black lady whose job is to save us as everyone expects her to be.
rikyrah
The Biden Accomplishments Guy (@What46HasDone) posted at 6:35 AM on Mon, Jul 22, 2024:
The “Kamala is a cop” stuff is going to fall much flatter in 2024 than it did in 2020. It’s a different time. That she locked up sexual predators, murderers, and corporate criminals is a good thing, particularly when your opponent is a rapist, convicted felon, and con man.
(https://x.com/What46HasDone/status/1815350074534224212?t=FIPXbszQ2FmMiquc-21YtQ&s=03)
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@RobertS: I remember that Mindy Kaling / Kamala Harris video. Watched it many times, and it’s always adorable.
That’s part of what has shifted me from pissed off to optimistic in just a few short hours. I was feeling fairly cheerful (but still pissed) by the time I went to bed last night.
Why? Because of a growing conviction that Biden is still pulling the strings. The movement to force him out of the race should never have happened, but it did happen, something told him that it was going to cost him the race, and so he did what he does best, what he’s been doing over and over as President: He took a shitshow and turned it into gold.
The instant endorsement by the Congressional Black Caucus told me that he’d already met with them and got them on board. The release of the news on Sunday afternoon is kind of the flip side of the old “release it on Friday afternoon to hide it” gambit. It means this discussion will dominate the news cycles right up till Thursday when Biden speaks about the decision.
The panic by Republicans is also fun to watch. Plus now all their “old is bad” whispering is going to backfire on what’s his name in a big way. What are they going to pull out to attack Kamala? “She’s black. Also she’s female. Did I mention she’s black?” It’ll be ugly, but somehow I don’t think it’s going to be as effective as they might hope.
Princess
I feel pretty much the same. Gutted about Biden and how it played out. Won’t forget that and there are some voices I don’t care to hear from again. Excited about Harris. A little hopeful?
stacib
@Belafon: My best and worse trait is that I’m a grudge holder. In my almost 65 years of living as a black woman, there’s been lots of “opportunities” for self-protection, and I’ve learned from those experiences to give anybody or anything only one shot at knowingly causing me harm. Right now, that’s the Democratic party. If they can screw Biden so hard and so quickly over a bad debate performance (contrary to all that happened post debate), a man who has been an absolutely reliable member of the party, why would they ever have any allegiance to me, the voter? I’ve never not voted, and I’m going to pacify myself that I live in Illinois which is fairly reliably blue. Whether I vote or not won’t matter. I’m not asking anybody to co-sign, hell, I don’t even know if y’all can understand where I’m coming from. This is just fucking painful.
Citizen Dave
@nomokesh: Re:Tucker. I was shown a tweet last night of an account bearing his name, and he posted a short video of that time (using his words) in 2007 when Biden casually implied that Obama was gay. Did not watch video clip. Posted a one word reply beginning with “Fuc” and ending with “ker”.
Steve LaBonne
@Chris: Like so many here, the possibility I dreaded was that the fat cats would engineer a brokered convention that would nominate Generic Centrist White Dude. With that possibility quickly evaporating, I’m enthusiastic about Harris and deeply thankful to the best president of my lifetime (which started in the Eisenhower administration). I expect the vast majority of Democrats share both of those emotions.
rikyrah
Joanie Vee (@JoanieVee1) posted at 11:54 PM on Sun, Jul 21, 2024:
I have dreamed of this day, the day when there would be this kind of widespread, national outpouring of support & breathtaking donations to propel her…
And I resent that my joy in this moment is even the least bit tainted by the dirty path to getting here.
(https://x.com/JoanieVee1/status/1815248966826500529?t=cPZ217NWUNx1nB0bKOps7A&s=03)
trollhattan
@Princess: Honestly think it might be possible to pivot the Republican Biden So Old lens onto Trump and then what? They’ve elevated the issue to the stratosphere, were planning on keeping it there until November, and now have to recalibrate the entire thing given Kamala is nothing if not energetic. Whither Diaper Don?
Kirk
Pardon, but I’m going to throw a flurry of remarks as I need to go do many things. Thought I’d avoid a string of comments to be skipped.
My concern about this whole exercise is that the last time we had a president drop out was LBJ. I kept asking if there was a plan because surely we have a few lessons learned.
I’m behind the plan for defeating Trump. As i said in a comment several days ago, I know some of the jackals (Kay being who I mentioned specifically) were seeing the bad numbers as unrecoverable, but I wasn’t. Thing is the short timing made it necessary to shit or get off the pot. Since I was backing Biden I feel stabbed by the choice made, but I fully understand why the other side felt the way they do. In the end I’m keeping my anger in check by remembering they’re stressed for the same reason I’m stressed – the orange convict still has a chance of being in charge – and are panicked that the others on our team are scoring an own goal. (sorry for the mixed metaphor)
VP selections. My wife threw out Julian Castro. Her opinion is that Dem Racists are going to racist regardless of the color of the VP, and MVP has brought the youth energy already, so let’s grab another large demographic that’s soft for Dems, and particularly Texan Dems. I’m not convinced it’s the best but I think it interesting enough to share.
Jackie
@trollhattan: I was just going to post that!
As sad as I am about how it happened, the magnitude of TCFG’s reaction to Biden leaving the race, tells me it was the right move.
TCFG is SCARED SHITLESS of Kamala!
Baahahahaaaa!
PJ
@stacib: Come sit by me. I will vote Democratic, no matter what, but I will not forget those who did this.
brendancalling
As someone who would vote for a dead dog if there was a D after their name, and as someone who thinks Biden was the best president of my lifetime, I am 100% fine with him dropping out. Maybe that’s because I’m not “very online” and don’t see all the scuttlebutt about “donors and elites and corporate interests who want Biden out,” or maybe it’s because his performance in the (yes, I know just one) debate thoroughly alarmed me.
I am glad Biden came to his own conclusion, and I am glad he had the wisdom to endorse Kamala Harris immediately.
i think Kamala will be a fine president.
In other news, my sunflower bloomed last week—it’s one of those versions with smaller flowers of assorted color. Early in the week, there was one bee enjoying the pollen party. Now, I’ve got a bunch of happy honeybeees, who I often find passed out in the flowers, coated with yellow pollen.
Juju.
I always wanted a President Kamala, just not this way. I won’t breathe easy until it’s a done deal. Also, somebody really should lock Joe Manchin in a basement somewhere.
SatanicPanic
@WereBear: Any of you guys have kids in high school age? It’s bad for them. I think the pandemic hurt them more than we can understand, and a lot of my friends with kids are saying the same thing- their kids feel like nothing they do matters. There’s no hope. Most of their parents can’t afford a house, the climate is rapidly getting worse, and we all have this giant ogre looming over us, AKA Donald Trump.
I know it’s not fair to blame Biden, but I think a lot of people expected him to somehow make Trump disappear from public life.
Chris
@OId Man Shadow:
Like I’ve said multiple times, the ultimate problem with this shit-show is that nobody has a plan to prevent it from happening again, largely because most people refuse to even acknowledge what “it” was in the first place. No, “don’t run old people” is not going to solve this, any more than “don’t run people who have their own email servers” or even “don’t run women” was going to solve 2016, because none of these things are the problem in the first place.
Yeah, this is absolutely going to happen again. Our best hope at this point is that the media isn’t able to make a crippling narrative stick to Harris in time for November, but that just kicks the can down the road to the next election. We can’t keep doing this forever.
nasruddin
@Chris: It’s a balancing act. There is some merit to both the democratic choice and the back-room finagling.
I want the party to mean something. Among other things, it should act as a gatekeeper and keep unelectable, unsuitable, or insane people off the stage. Look what happened to the Republicans in 2016 – it turned out that party was community rental hall, not a political party. Look at it now – no principles at all.
I voted for Harris in 2020 & Biden in 2024 in my state’s primaries – but my vote is not a suicide pact.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@SatanicPanic: My wife teaches college undergraduates. The graduating seniors whose commencements were upset or cancelled by Gaza protests this year are the same kids whose high school graduations were cancelled by Covid.
AnnaN
I honestly do not see the “Joe Was forced out!” portion of this whole process. I thought he has looked markedly unwell since Memorial Day in France. And I am not talking about his mental acuity.
If I had to guess, I would venture to say that he has a physical issue and that medication to help with that issue is causing side effects. It can take months for the body to acclimate to meds and by that time, the appearance that he is a shell of his former self will have taken root. He may have initially convinced himself that he would be good and hold up through the election but slowly realized that he might not and this was the best way to avoid a worst-case scenario.
But, beside all that, when has Joe Biden ever been FORCED to do anything he doesn’t want to do?
Taobhan
I’m in agreement with you, Cole. I absolutely hated the way this went down. I wasn’t really a Joe Biden enthusiast until he beat Trump in 2020 but became a huge fan in watching him pile up accomplishment after accomplishment in the White House. Biden did everything asked of him and a lot more. He didn’t deserve the treatment he got from the leaders of his own party. I suspect there’s a karmic price the Democratic Party is going to have to pay at some point for strong-arming Biden out of the 2024 race. And it’s scary we will be plunging into the great unknown in the coming months. That said, I’m hopeful Kamala Harris gets the nomination and she picks a VP candidate who will widen the party’s appeal in November. And I hope the convention doesn’t get bogged down in a lot of acrimony. If we lose to Trump in November, there are Democratic Party leaders who have a LOT of ‘splaining to do to us little folk.
Jackie
@nomokesh:
Relatedly, I wonder what Putin’s thinking about this?! 🤭
PJ
Julian Castro attacked Biden throughout the 2020 primaries and during his Presidency by questioning his competency. Castro also has no constituency. No one is going to vote for the ticket because Castro is on it, and there are people – like me – who would not vote if he were on it.
wjca
No, the only way to get to the media is thru their advertisers.
A stopped subscription, even if it is the right thing to do, is a flea bite at best. But a flood of calls and letters to advertisers’ marketing departments, with a message of “I’m boycotting, and urging all my friends (and social media followers) to do likewise!”? If/when the advertisers start taking their money elsewhere, that really hurts the medias’ bottom line bigtime.
Jefft452
Well said
Mai Naem mobile
@RobertS: Anybody checked with Adam Schiff and the NYT whether it’s okay for Kamala.to be seen laughing(‘weird laugh’ whatever that means) with a female Indian American celebrity? Is she supposed to hang out only with white male celebrities? We need to know all these rules.
Jackie
@AnnaN:
Continue doing his job to improve American lives. You know… prezidenting!
ArchTeryx
@cain: Hate to break it to you but they can do it as many times as they control the purse strings of the delegates and downballot candidates. Or they can just reveal themselves for what they really are and go all in for Trump, like the rest of the billionaires. that would actually be the best outcome: It would stop the concern trolling bullshit, rip their masks off and set up a clear and concise message that it’s us vs. the robber barons. That worked out pretty well for FDR and Obama.
trollhattan
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: My kid’s demographic on the nose. Luckily, her uni carried forward with graduation for class of 2024.
AnnaN
@Jackie: Yes, but only now, there will be zero fucks in attendance.
Mai Naem mobile
@PJ: not only has Julian Castro attacked Biden he ran a shitty primary campaign.
SatanicPanic
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Jeez. What’s her take on their outlook on life?
trollhattan
@Jackie: I’m hoping he gets to nominate one more SCOTUS justice.
Alito falls into his wife’s woodchipper; Clarence drives that damn RV off a cliff.
Ohio Mom
It’s very comforting to read Cole’s post and the comments and see my mostly incoherent feelings articulated.
I feel validated in all my conflicting thoughts — Yes, of course I support Harris — How could they do this to Biden and who is “they” exactly — It’s so inspiring to see all the excitement coalescing around Harris — Gotta love the timing, right after the RNC, haha, took the wind out of their sails — and on and on.
Meanwhile, I’ve gotten nothing done this morning because I am so discombobulated.
It’s not true that I did not appreciate the relative calm of the Biden years but now think I didn’t appreciate it enough.
suzanne
@WereBear: I think pandemic trauma is absolutely a huge fucken thing. God, it’s terrible. It’s the defining event in my two elder Spawns’ lives.
I was thinking about this with SuzMom, and we were talking about the events that really forged our political outlook. Hers were the assassinations of JFK, MLK, RFK, and the Vietnam War. Mine were Bush v Gore, 9/11, and the Iraq invasion. For my kids, it’s the pandemic.
ArchTeryx
@mrstealyourcostcosample: Unity is the key insight, to paraphrase Vernor Vinge. I expected that the party would fracture 50 different ways without a standard bearer. It still might, if the media and the billionaires get their contested convention – that has NEVER ended well in American history. Hell, it’s now Nixon got in and he was far less a dangerous man than TCFG. But total unity in the D party is what the fascists most fear, and if it took an honorable man falling on his sword like Batman at the end of The Dark Knight to do it, then so be it.
Archon
I hate the way Biden was forced out (and let’s not pretend it’s anything other than that). I also know this wouldn’t have played out anything close to as conspiratorial and messy as this if the end goal from the beginning was to replace Biden with Harris. The donors had other plans but are checkmated now. The ONLY thing that matters though is winning this November. If we win I can give a shit how the process played out.
If we lose none of this will matter anyways because party politics will be over, Republicans and their enablers in the Supreme Court will never hold another free and fair election and the only way to get Republicans out then will be massive civil unrest.
stacib
@trollhattan: You trying to resurrect the ghost of Majority Leader Mitch McConnell??? :-)
NotoriousJRT
Neither conflicted nor committed. But confident some young formerly diffident voter will sub for me.
ETA: Not at all confident.
Chris
@nasruddin:
That’s the voters’ job. Give it to the party, and their definition of “unelectable, unsuitable, or insane” is going to be a lot more likely to be based on things like “does he support unionization and Medicare for all?” than “is he, in fact, hard to elect.” That’s skipping over the fact that elites, by definition, have a very iffy grasp of what voters will and will not in fact respond to; that’s why so many of them faceplant embarrassingly when they run in primaries. Remember when Jeb Bush was going to be the 2016 nominee?
What, you thought it had principles before 2016? Trump didn’t “rent” the party, he won it fair and square because what he’s selling is exactly what their voters want, and have wanted since long before he started selling it, and what the elites have a fifty-year (at least) record of being completely okay with so long as it comes with tax-cuts and union-busting.
Bupalos
@Sis: Just to underline the “different people are different, and that is good” vibe…I couldn’t feel more differently.
To me what happened to Joe Biden is his body betrayed him. As all of ours are going to do. I feel like his ego and singleminded advisors (every single politician at that level has to have a borderline sociopathic ego and singleminded advisors) led him to deny that reality. A very hard reality for any of us to accept. Despite the vast majority of his fellow elected dems feeling he would hurt them and the country by refusing to leave the game when his fastball was very obviously gone, he came up to the line of playing with some very divisive themes and using his political capital irresponsibly.
I think the party likely saved him from trying to act the hero in a way that likely would have led to embarrassment and recrimination and tarnished his memory. It left a much deeper political disaster on the table than what we risk now with Harris.
He could have maybe delayed Father Time and beat the other candidate (who is also getting tapped on the shoulder by cognitive decline) with a shocking turnaround. I just think the odds were quite heavily on the former type of scenario. So in the analysis that people “did Biden dirty” leave room for the idea that pols like Obama and donors like Clooney may feel they were actually doing the harder part of being a friend.
Jackie
@rikyrah:
Also N. Carolina. And Gov Cooper is term-limited, thus not endangering losing a Dem governor.
Until the Dobbs decision is undone, we need every Dem governor in place to ward off GQP ratfuckery within blue states.
Wombat Probability Cloud
@Jeffro: Maybe Mark Kelly (AZ)?
PatD
@Chris: Harris has largely consolidated support all across the board. Why does everyone need Obama to come out and publicly put his thumb on the scale? She is going to get the nomination.
PsiFighter37
I’m pissed at what happened to Biden, but it’s in the past now. Kamala Harris or bust. There will be scores to settle at another time, especially for Adam Schiff.
Zzyzx
The one thing I kept going back to is that our reps had information that we didn’t. They were talking to Biden and had a better gauge over if this was a bad 20 minutes or something that will happen a lot. They might have been wrong mind you, but it wasn’t just the pundits doing this.
The one thing that is convincing me more that I like this call more than I expected to (as Biden was indeed the best president of my life) is that I feel so much better about the world right now. The grassroots seem more energized, Trump seems pissed, and things just feel less hopeless. It’ll be a slog, but it won’t be a slog where I’m terrified every time Biden has a public performance.
Now that pressure is going to be on Trump supporters.
NotoriousJRT
@thruppence: I recommend taking the night off from the news if you are dreading it.
Kirk
@PJ: Thank you for the info.
Bupalos
@Jackie: I agree with this, but we absolutely need some Midwest and hopefully union presence on this ticket as well. Not sure where it comes from. If we can fight this back to the state it was prior to the debate, then it comes down to Mi. Pa. Wi.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@trollhattan: On that subject, the latest New Yorker cover was pretty chilling.
kindness
What do the lawyers here know about campaign finance law? I’ve seen some on the inter-tubes say the money in Joe Biden’s chest can’t now be used for a ticket Joe isn’t on. I want to believe that isn’t true. My real concern is Republicans will sue, force that money into a locked box, and Trump judges will stall the whole thing till after the election.
rk
I wasn’t in favor of Biden stepping down. But the reality is that his age has been a huge liability. My daughter said that Biden’s performance in the debate basically solidified all things that republicans have been saying about him for years. I didn’t watch, but I read enough about it. The younger generation really are not with Biden (according to my kids and their friends). Not everyone is a bad faith actor. It’s not fair, but if a significant majority of your voters want you out because they think you’re too old then you have to go. Biden has done it in the best way possible. He could have been resentful at his treatment and thrown the whole thing into chaos. But he showed grace. Will this work? I don’t know. No one really does. But it’s silly to not look at things realistically and assume that everyone was piling on for no reason. A lot of people I respect were of the opinion he should go. And others who I respect (like this blog) were of the opinion he shoud stay. I’m for whatever gets us to beat Trump. Only time will tell.
rikyrah
@Sis:
Me either. And, we need to keep a list, and after November 2024…
scores need to be settled.
Chris
@ArchTeryx:
Of course, Batman falling on his sword just creates a lie that sits around like a ticking time bomb for a decade until a bad actor finally detonates it at the worst possible time, thus destroying the legitimacy of the Gotham City they’ve built, so…
(Honestly, it’s also a messed up decision just in the context of its own movie. The entire climax of TDK was about the Joker ultimately being thwarted, not by superheroes, cops, or lawyers, but by ordinary citizens – and convicts! – listening to their conscience. Jumping from that to “well, the silly little people just aren’t strong enough to handle the truth, we need to protect them from it and give them their fairytale” was a hell of a conclusion to draw from what had just happened).
Archon
@PatD: People being mad at Obama and Pelosi is the part of this I don’t quite understand.
Gretchen
@VFX Lurker: I thought TPM did pretty well. I felt like Josh was more trying to figure out what was happening rather than trying to drive it. The Obama bros at Crooked Media, on the other hand, are permanently on my shit list
Mai Naem mobile
I am going to throw out Minn Governor Tim Walz. Midwesterner. He’s a very white bread mild mannered looking guy. He doesn’t look young but he’s 60 which apparently according to some on BJ is the new 80. The reason I suggest him is that the Minnesota DFL got the trifecta in 2020 and didn’t screw around fighting and passed a bunch of progressive stuff. Kind of like what Inslee did in WA but Walz is a midwesterner.
Steve Crickmore
Most of you seem very upset that the 14 million votes for Biden in the primaries are now being ignored, with his forced or unforced withdrawl, and the ‘new process’ to nominate Harris…but there never was a serious candidate to Biden in the primaries, nor was one encouraged. The televised debate was really the direct primary with the whole nation, and Joe Biden lost that badly…and it seems to Father Time, more than to Trump. People would have voting for a candidate that was closer to his 90th birthday, than his 80th birthday at the end of his new term, and for someone that already looked tired and acted, much older than his age. Biden, yes, perhaps a little late, could see he had no realistic path to victory, given how the majority of the public viewed him. Legislator-in chief- Joe can now keep his promise, made in March of 2020, when he first ran, as ‘a bridge to the next generation of leaders’… and not a draw-bridge.
rikyrah
@cain:
I hear you.
clap clap clap clap clap
NotoriousJRT
@Gusnite:
And while we’re at it, Biden was more effective and better president than Obama. Go ahead and pile on folks but it’s the truth.
I will not pile on except to concur. That was a problem for Pod bros, IMO.
Steve Holmes
Amen.
KatKapCC
@trollhattan: Aww, the poor little bitch. Lemme go find my teeny violin.
trollhattan
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Brrrr, instant nightmares.
NotoriousJRT
@rikyrah: Sorry. I think Chris Murphy would be a great choice. I’d prefer to leave governors in place to manage state level shenanigans.
dnfree
Let me just say that like John Cole, I am very risk-averse. I was fine with Biden continuing for a second term. I voted for him in the primary, like almost everyone here.
But the “risk” calculation can change, and it did for me with the debate. That was a much-hyped event, Biden was praised for getting it put in place so early, supposedly on favorable terms to Biden. I expected to see competent Biden, and instead I saw a Biden that fulfilled the worst the Republicans had said about him. I KNOW not everyone saw it that way, but I did, and obviously I’m not alone. So I don’t blame the big donors for being behind this; I think they just saw the same thing I and others did.
The worst risk I saw was that Biden could keep campaigning competently and then suddenly there could be an “October surprise” that he brought on himself, too late for things to be turned around. We were seeing anonymous sourced reports from people in the White House and at foreign conferences that Biden had lost a step or two. He wasn’t the same person he was in 2020. As an older person, I’m not the same person I was four years ago either. Few of us are, and the strain on him has been greater than the strain in most of us.
when all of us voted for Biden in the primaries, we both wanted Biden AND we wanted the person best-suited to beat Trump. I think Biden had ceased to be the best person to beat atrophy, whether that was fair or not.
I’ve been glad to see all the praise for Biden’s accomplishments and long career of service. I hope the party unites behind Harris. And one advantage of the timing I hadn’t noticed is that the resignation took place after the Republican ticket is cast in stone. Now we can point out Trump’s decline.
Eunicecycle
@rk: the main issue I have with giving younger voters’ opinions a great deal of weight is that they are not reliable voters. I guess it depends on how “young” you’re talking about.
KatKapCC
@Jinchi: Yeah, and imagine him standing on the same stage as Harris. He’s gonna look fifty times worse, and somewhere inside him, he knows that so he’s running scared from the possibility.
SatanicPanic
@kindness: So far as I can tell, that’s not true and Harris has already taken over his funds.
PatD
@Belafon: I think it was mostly on Biden to defend himself and turn the page and he couldn’t do it. It took me a couple of weeks to decide he couldn’t move the conversation forward and refocus it on Trump.
JeffH
I’m pissed as hell about how we got here and I think it sets a precedent that is going to come back and bite us hard at some point.
That being said, I am astonished and hopeful by how fast everything fell in place for Harris. We don’t have any “look at me!” idiots fighting her for the nomination (even Manchin has backed off) and the fundraising is through the roof. I think that, even more than who the candidate is, has spooked the Republicans. They were expecting several more weeks of a circular firing squad followed by a nominee with large chunks of the Democratic base angry at them. Instead it looks like a done deal within 24 hours of Biden’s announcement.
trollhattan
@stacib:
I haven’t done the arithmetic but think because Biden is remaining in office and Harris thus represents the Senatorial tie-break vote, we can still move forward with judicial nominations.
Had Biden resigned the presidency, Harris would not be replaced and the VP seat would be vacant.
I think.
TBone
@nomokesh: 😆
Belafon
@PJ: Same.
wjca
It’s not only that.
I see that various Republican lawyers are trying to make the case that the Biden-Harris campaign funds cannot be transferred to the Harris campaign. Once again, they haven’t thought things thru. (See also kindness )
Without commenting on the actual legal merits of their position (IANAL), what happens if they win their point? I think what happens is what happens to any left over campaign funds after an election. The guy they were for gets to spend them campaigning for whomever he wants to support. Which means that Biden can use them in support of Harris. Or, if she doesn’t need them, on supporting Congressional candidates, or party GOTV efforts, etc.
In other words, they may well be trashing the peospects of a lot of down-ballot Republicans, too. Oops.
NotoriousJRT
@suzanne: So glad to know what you felt. I guess all that was accomplished after 2020 just could not overcome your feelings. Well, now your getting what you asked for. Enjoy!
Belafon
@PatD: I tend to look at what happens to Trump on these issues. Yes, the media is biased towards him, but at no time have we seen the party leaders turn on him, and that has kept it from being an issue. We don’t have that here. There are very few things I want to copy from Republicans, but not letting others define your leader is one of them.
NotoriousJRT
@Jeffro: Go right ahead!
SatanicPanic
@dnfree: Same. I was actually in favor of there not being competitive primaries, because I was thinking of the 1980 example of Ted Kennedy ultimately hurting Carter in the election. So for me the idea that he was the nominee because of the primaries was absurd- they were supposed to just be a coronation. But after seeing his subsequent public appearances, I regretted this stance. I felt like I’d supported something without knowing all the facts. I fucked up.
rikyrah
Bob Cesca
@bobcesca_go
Clever of Biden to wait until just after the RNC to step aside. Trump just wasted his entire convention — and all that money — attacking Biden. Now that big window has closed. All he has left are his batshit rallies.
3:42 PM · Jul 21, 2024
https://x.com/bobcesca_go/status/1815125121809666187
different-church-lady
I’m a big churn of emotions too, almost all of them bad and bitter.
But the one I want to highlight is that I’m relieved that at least one unknown has been eliminated (even if it happened in the most unfair way) and we can focus on one path.
Jeffro
isn’t it great??
I also have no idea what Lou Dobbs or Rush Limbaugh thinks about this, LOL
rikyrah
Kamala HQ
@KamalaHQ
Rev. Sharpton: I don’t think Trump wants to debate Kamala Harris. He’s a political coward. There’s no doubt about it. It’s the prosecutor vs. the felon
https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1815375046430298413
Belafon
@wjca: There is nothing they can do. She was part of the ticket, so, from a candidate point of view, it’s basically hers. The paperwork is a formality.
Archon
@NotoriousJRT:
My wife is a progressive Democrat and if I told her I thought Biden was a better President than Obama she would laugh in my face.
So while I think it’s an entirely justifiable opinion one doesn’t even need to compare poll numbers between Obama and Biden to know that there are a huge cohort of voters that would look at you like you were crazy if you said that.
Lacuna Synecdoche
@trollhattan:
I’ve been wondering if that was a factor too.
TBone
@trollhattan: 😆❤️
The grievance is off the charts.
Jeffg166
For once the Democrats are falling in line. That’s all they need to do. Keep fighting for democracy. Biden endorses Harris. Good enough for me.
rikyrah
The Hill
@thehill
Voto Latino pledges $44 million to support Harris
https://x.com/thehill/status/1815387851694964995
Geoduck
@Archon: Neither Obama nor Pelosi made any public effort to back up Biden, and Pelosi might have been actively working behind the scenes to force him out. So I can understand people being bitter.
Jeffro
@Wombat Probability Cloud: good candidate, but no senators, please. We need every last one of them.
Cooper, Whitmer, Shapiro.
related: isn’t it AMAZING how much talent, how much of a ‘bench’ we have on our side?
(plus principles…we have actual principles)
Bruce K in ATH-GR
I didn’t see the infamous debate – being on the wrong side of the planet – but the resulting firestorm had a feel of a deliberately set fire with gasoline being continuously pumped into it, being encouraged to spread.
And to mangle metaphors, this episode shows that the US doesn’t have one problem, but many. Journalism smashing its thumb onto one side of the scales is one of them, money men trying to force the nation to conform to their desires is another, and wannabe latter-day Nazis preparing to seize power is a third.
My shower thought:
The body politic of America is suffering from an abdominal tumor (journamalism*), a brain tumor (the money men) and a knife in the throat (the GOP). All of them need to be treated, but the knife has to be dealt with first. If we can’t stop the Trumpist-owned GOP from seizing power and destroying us all, then the rest of America’s problems will be of little more than academic interest to history students in some future century.
*Yes, computerized spell-checker, I spelled that right.
Ken
Kind of a “day ending in Y” thing, isn’t it? He gets nearly this nuts when he doesn’t get his two scoops of ice creams.
FDRLincoln
I’m not concerned about Obama and Pelosi endorsing KH. They will; as the biggest guns in the party, holding their fire for a few days to make sure that there is no serious opposition to KH makes sense to me. Bring out those hammers when you need them. But the party is coalescing quickly. Pelosi and Obama will endorse by the end of the week and that will be the end of any argument.
As for VP, my top two picks would be Kelly from Arizona and Beshear from Kentucky. Probably Kelly, which will help lock down AZ and NV.
I know a lot of people like Shapiro but he hasn’t been governor very long. I don’t know much about Cooper. I like Pete B a lot, but would prefer a governor.
I think Beshear, who seems more charismatic to me than Shapiro, would match better against Vance in a debate, and Beshear should have some appeal in the Pennsyltucky areas of PA.
I think a Harris-Kelly ticket or a Harris-Beshear ticket would both be very formidable.
rikyrah
Joseph in THEE OC![]()
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(@BlueOC1981) posted at 8:52 PM on Sun, Jul 21, 2024:
America owes Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. a debt of gratitude for over 50 years of unselfish service to the nation. He deserved far better than how he was treated in the last three weeks, but his place in history is secure. https://t.co/XOHl7tYnW5
(https://x.com/BlueOC1981/status/1815203253266923981?t=9MPxgUw6nb6t602lsvFJzg&s=03)
Zzyzx
@trollhattan: If nothing else, he could easily get brain fog for a few weeks. And in the current climate it wouldn’t take much for that to destroy him.
Jeffro
Yup. trumpov may go down in history as not only our worst president by far, but the greatest party unifier the Democrats have EVER had.
(thank you for your service, you orange turd!)
wjca
This. It’s part of why Trump is freaking out.
FDRLincoln
We are going to win this.
This country will renounce Donald Trump, and all of his works, and all of his pomps.
Kamala Harris, Kelly/Beshear/whoever, and Joe Biden personify everything good about America. Trump and Vance personify everything bad.
rikyrah
@FDRLincoln:
NO SENATORS.
Uh uh
Uh uh
If we get Ruben across the finish line in November..
Uh uh.
No more opportunities for the GOP for another 4 years.
NO SENATORS.
PatD
@Belafon: Yes, but.. I’m sure there are many Republicans who wish they could dump Trump for Nikki Haley or someone with better favorables.
lollipopguild
Fired up and ready to GO! 2024 version.
PJ
I think Obama knows it – at a minimum, he knows a lot of Democrats hold that opinion – and it eats at him. Obama was a great candidate and speaker, but he didn’t have the political or people skills you can get with an actual love of people and 36 years in the Senate.
Memory Pallas
Joe Biden’s action this weekend shuts down Trump’s “I am a martyr” shtick.
It’s like we had to sacrifice the old beloved king so the crops could grow.
rikyrah
Larry Middleton, Proud Liberal Vermin![]()
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(@l78lancer) posted at 1:39 AM on Mon, Jul 22, 2024:
My 100% support for Kamala must not be confused with approval of the democrats for stabbing Joe in the back. It’s the Ides of July.
(https://x.com/l78lancer/status/1815275384654512516?t=-BSx3YZZ4zQYBH8u-G8_1g&s=03)
NotoriousJRT
@Archon: And I would just cite my rationale for my position. Obama was a good feelings dude. He was not a consequential policy president. Go ahead. Convince me I’m wrong with more than your wife and other anonymous folk.
ETA: His BFD would have died or been a lot less had Nancy not supplied the rocks to take it to the finishline.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@wjca: The RNC could just use all their money to cut new ads. What’s that you say? There’s only 17 cents in the RNC checking account because the rest of it went to TFG’s legal bills? Huh.
bluefoot
@OId Man Shadow:
I could not have said it better. Thank you.
FDRLincoln
@rikyrah: that’s fair enough, the senator thing is the best argument against Kelly, although IIRC his replacement will be a Dem in the short-term.
Who would you pick? What do you think of Beshear?
wjca
They can tie it up in court. Find a friendly (Trump-appointed, of course) judge to grant a temporary injunction, pending a hearing. Etc. That works even if they lose on the merits.
rikyrah
HOW, SO SOON!!!
Lawrence Hurley
@lawrencehurley
Spotted on the DC Metro
https://x.com/lawrencehurley/status/1815375864722309144
Frankensteinbeck
Joe quit because the internal polls showed him he was utter poison to the election.
Joe was poison to the election because since the debate the national press has been a nonstop avalanche of “When will Biden drop out?” MSMBC was asking that twelve times an hour even on its programs that answered “He won’t.” I have never seen anything like this news assault. It made emails look like a passing thought. The public was dragged down by it. Without it, the debate would have disappeared.
I cannot know this for sure, but I think it would not have happened if Democrats had not freaked the fuck out before the debate was even over. The media smelled blood. If that’s the truth, our hands are as dirty as anyone’s.
Primary voters voted for Biden/Harris, not just Biden. That matters.
Small donors also abandoned Biden. The fat cats are a detail.
Thank goodness the party has unified around Harris quickly. When the delegates vote for her everyone in party leadership will be able to say it’s fair and square.
Trump thinks we will win now.
This event is a fucking travesty and a shameful moment in American history. If you are enraged or mourning over that, you have only my sympathy.
Now maybe I’ll go back on my BJ break to save my sanity.
Steve LaBonne
@Archon: I’m sure that’s true, nevertheless I would say it’s beyond dispute that Biden accomplished more in terms of legislation in 3 1/2 years than Obama did in 8 (despite having 60 Dem Senators in his first 2 years) and in foreign policy chops there is simply no comparison. But too many voters, even ones who are sensible in every other way, value the sizzle over the steak. Which is exactly what Biden wasn’t able to overcome, alas.
Eyeroller
@Jackie: The biggest impact would have been if he had been second (after Biden himself).
SatanicPanic
@NotoriousJRT: I think the ACA was the most consequential legislation since Great Society.
Godless Rockhead
I have to differ on a couple of points. First, yes we voted for Biden in the primaries. But that was before we knew how much he had declined mentally. The debate was a huge turning point. Until then we believed that he had slowed down with age but that he was still mentally sharp and up to the jobs of defeating Trump and being president. The debate called that into question in a big way. I feel like the Biden team and Democratic Party had been misleading us until the reality of the situation was exposed. Second, this is not ageism. I’m in my late sixties and know what ageism is. This is about hi ability to do the jobs of winning and governing. Nothing else.
rikyrah
@FDRLincoln:
What do you think of Beshear?
I have nothing against him, except..
we will never win Kentucky.
I want us to get someone from somewhere that we need to win, and can actually win.
Governor of Pennsylvania
Governor of Michigan
Eunicecycle
I am not angry about how this went down; I just feel really sad. I was a Kamala Harris supporter from the start, so I can be happy she will (most likely) be the nominee but not happy about how this happened. I WILL be angry if she somehow gets pushed aside.
Hildebrand
I am exceptionally happy that the party is coalescing around the VP – that lowers the anxiety quite a lot. And, of course, she will be a phenomenal president.
But I am still furious with the way they knee-capped President Biden. It was crass, cruel, dismissive, and heartless. All of the good work that his team accomplished over the last 3.5 years was just completely disappeared, all of the hardships he has faced in his life, and they just gut him like a fish over vibes and optics.
I hope after Kamala is elected that some long bloody knives come out for the worst of the Brutuses.
Archon
@Geoduck: How do we know Obama and Pelosi weren’t behind the scenes preventing donors and elected officials from bolting on Harris too and pushing an open convention on us?
You can be mad they didn’t publicly back Obama and Pelosi but it’s possible that wouldn’t have made a difference in the end.
p.a.
I think I remember from economics, not Keynes, IDK who, “what is perceived to be true is in effect true.”
The MSM meme was a killer. The Dem BigMoneyBoyz betrayal rings very true. But as far as institutional Dems kneecapping Biden just because of the money boyz, I don’t fucking know. May never know. May find out soon. Maybe internals were horrific. Maybe it was panic. Maybe it was a necessary reaction. I don’t know. Counterfactuals will never be known.
Win the election. And then, if the Institutional Dem Party can be cleansed, good! Way past time.
If it can’t, what’s plan B? Split? If cleansed but can’t compete nationally just through base donors, then what?
IDK. Way beyond my pay grade.
FDRLincoln
I am an old white dude and I love Obama enough that I have a picture of him in my office at home. The ACA saved my family’s bacon. I will always be grateful for that.
But Biden…best president of my life (56 years). Did an enormous amount of good policy-wise with thin Congressional margins. Beat back the Red Wave in 2022. And had the character to step back when other people would not have.
Joe deserved better than getting shivved by the media and big donors. That won’t be forgotten; their betrayal will not be forgiven.
But now we unify behind Harris, and SHOVE THE ORANGE ASSHOLE BACK TO HELL where it belongs.
rikyrah
@Gusnite:
Joe did more with less.
different-church-lady
@Frankensteinbeck:
That’s it right there. The trap was set and they ran into it willingly.
rk
@Eunicecycle:
Mid 20s and politically savvy. They all vote. But this age thing has been talked about for years. The debate was the final nail in the coffin so to speak. My son who watched it said that Biden really missed easy rebuttlas to Trump. On top of that he looked very old and confused. These people are not the news media. I don’t want to be like the republicans and stick to our guy regardless. Yes he was great, but if he is unable to do the job for four more years, is declining, then you have to do what is right for the country. The country comes above any one individual. If we lose, all his acheivments will be undone. Like RBG. It’s a great person who knows when to quit and listen to what others (good people) are saying.
NotoriousJRT
@Steve LaBonne: This more articulately expresses my view. I was an Obama fan from the Kerry convention. It was a lot of sizzle.
Kristine
@RobertS: Thanks for the link! Fun video, and I like the way Harris chops onion. I always make a mess, but I’m going to try her method next time.
FDRLincoln
@rikyrah: I know we won’t win Kentucky, but Beshear seems like he would have appeal in PA, MI, other areas.
I would be fine with Shapiro or Whitmer, too. Basically as long as Harris doesn’t pick Joe Manchin, I’m good with whatever she decides.
Archon
@Steve LaBonne: I think Biden’s handling in foreign policy has been absolutely masterful. He got left holding the bag when the music stopped in Afghanistan but the Taliban coming back was likely inevitable.
I think Biden’s domestic and legislative accomplishments are more mixed and I think he made a critical mistake by not refocusing his entire agenda after Jan 6 but discussing all that is probably for a different day.
laura
I’m never getting over this. Never Ever.
I’m going to bust ass getting Kamala Harris elected in November, and again in 2028.
Al rennick can shit in his hand and clap.
chemiclord
@cain: I was reasonably lucky that I was able to speak with my rep (Elise Slotkin) face to face and tell her in no uncertain terms that I will vote for her primary opponent for the rest of my life or until she is jettisoned from office.
She tried to tell me that it was for the good of the party, necessary because private discussion wasn’t working, yadda yadda, and my reply was that she created a dangerous precedent, and that the road to hell was paved with good intentions. This is the consequences for her actions, and if she doesn’t like it, maybe she should have thought about that before she started backstabbing.
(I got the sense she had fielded many similar calls and letters the last week or so. Her constituents are NOT happy with her.)
FDRLincoln
The other thing is, the GOP seems to be off-guard, off-balance, and off-key with their attacks on Harris, so far. I don’t think they gamed out this possibility.
I think trying to run on misogyny will backfire on them in the post-Dobbs environment, and anyone who cares about her ethnic background was already voting for Trump.
NotoriousJRT
@SatanicPanic: And Nancy Godamn Smash was the one who made it happen.
dc
@FDRLincoln: I would hope the pick would not put any elected seat whether governor, senator or rep at risk. Cooper is termed out in NC, and won NC twice while Trump won pres.
Archon
@NotoriousJRT: I think talking like ACA was some minor policy accomplishment is a huge slap in the face to Obama, Pelosi and the other Democrats that basically voted to end their careers with that vote, along with the hundreds of thousands of lives it likely saved but whatever.
delphinium
@SatanicPanic:
Honestly I think this was part of why certain folks were so upset about Biden’s debate performance. They keep expecting that a knock-out punch will happen (either legally or other ways) but as we have seen over the many years, it just isn’t going to happen due to the GOP, SC, and the media. Seems the best we can do is continue to gnaw at the edges while getting enough people to understand what a huge threat Trump continues to be to this country.
Edited for clarity.
Chris
@SatanicPanic:
Yeah, I’ve never been completely on board with the “Biden is the most consequential president of my lifetime” thing, largely because I struggle to think of any single achievement that was as huge as the ACA. Of course, that may simply be my bias at work, since the ACA was hugely important for me struggling in the 2010s economy.
pat
https://digbysblog.net/2024/07/22/stephen-miller-loses-his-sht/
I find digby to have something I can agree with.
Jackie
@trollhattan: I’m having a BLAST reading RW media! They are just beside themselves LOL!
I might take a peek at Faux today 😂
JustRuss
Don’t normally pile on, but I’m 100% with Cole on this one. Every word.
OId Man Shadow
There’s very little in history or America to suggest that powerful people can ever be held accountable.
BR
@VFX Lurker:
I felt like Josh Marshall was one of the few who didn’t try to swing the narrative one way or another, but just interpreted the tea leaves he was seeing (quite well, I think).
Steve LaBonne
@delphinium: It isn’t going to happen because around 30% of voters actively crave fascism and another 15% or so are perfectly OK with it. It’s not pleasant to notice that the country we live in is like that, but we can’t beat them back without understanding where the electorate actually is.
Fake Irishman
@Steve LaBonne:
Obama made plenty of mistakes in foreign policy, but has real achievements too: the last standing nuclear arms treaty with Russia. The Iran deal was masterful and would have probably ended up as important as the Panama Canal treaties if Trump had just let it alone. And the Paris agreement really was on him and Kerry working their asses off. It set the first real framework to reduce GHGs globally and had real momentum even when the US pulled out.
Domestically, the ACA is the most important welfare legislation since the Great Society. And the stimulus contained a really effective renewal energy package that both would have been landmark legislation in its own right and laid the table for the IRA to really cut emissions.
NotoriousJRT
@Archon: I have said repeatedly that the ACA, which I agree was and is consequential, was the accomplishment of Nancy Pelosi. Left to Obama, it would have been much less.
But, I will have to admit that it is a personal thing that as time goes on Obama ages less well with me.
Bupalos
@rikyrah: Absolutely. And some of his worst political weaknesses with the party (too parliamentary, too friendly with old Senate blue dogs palls like manchin) provided the surprising tipping points to gets our biggest win in decades.
FDRLincoln
Another thing about Harris: she seems like a genuinely happy person with joy in her life. Such a contrast with Trump, who radiates malice.
KatKapCC
@pat: LOL at the subhed: “Not that he had it to lose”
Gretchen
@Mai Naem mobile: “Weird laugh” means laughing while female. They complained about Hillary’s laugh too.
BR
@rikyrah:
Beshear seems to talk like a robot (just going off of a couple recent media appearances, not any deep understanding of him). But he says the right things and is apparently popular in a region where Dems don’t do well. I know nothing of his policies and hope he’s not a Blue Dog.
Belafon
The ACA was a very, very monumental piece of legislation, but what Biden accomplished that Obama couldn’t is that he shifted the party left. So many of the things he did – getting large infrastructure bills passed, visiting picket lines, wiping out student debt, forcing laws such as Title IX to cover gays and trans – moved the discussion, and what we support, in the right direction along with being accomplishments on their own.
KatKapCC
@FDRLincoln: Someone needs to make a supercut of clips of Harris dancing interspersed with Trump doing his weird cow-milking move to YMCA.
Jackie
@trollhattan: I 100% approve your message 😁
Fake Irishman
@Chris:
The IRA might get there, but agreed on the ACA.
Obama has three big laws from his two years:
ACA, Stimulus, Dodd-Frank
Biden has five:
IRA, Covid relief, CHIPS, Infrstrstructure and PACT
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
I have two residences right now. Haven’t decided which one I will vote at yet.
I noticed one of the Reps at one of these residences, Stephen Lynch has not endorsed yet. I urgently made a call.
Kamala Harris must be the nominee for any hope of legitimacy.
bbleh
@rikyrah: @Jeffro: @trollhattan: @Wombat Probability Cloud: @Mai Naem mobile: it’s true Dems will never win KY, but Beshear is a white man from Heartland America, handsome AF, he can out-hillbilly Vance without breaking a sweat, and he can talk Gospel like English. He’d be a good match.
I do NOT think Harris should pick a woman, eg Whitmer; the misogyny is gonna be bad enough. And I’m sorry to say, I don’t think she should pick Shapiro either — if he would even be willing to do it — because he’s Jewish, and the racism and religious bigotry is gonna be almost as big in this race as misogyny (plus I don’t think we need him to win PA anyway).
A LOT of normies, especially low-information ones, aren’t outright bigots like the MAGAts, but they talk about being “uncomfortable” with “different” / “unconventional” candidates. Kamala is the Anti-Felon. For a running-mate she needs a nice all-American Christian whiteboy (see also Obama-Biden). This race is gonna be a squeaker.
rikyrah
@Mai Naem mobile:
Do we have a solid replacement Dem, if he is chosen?
trollhattan
@Jackie: “We GOT this!” to “WTAF just happened?” in 24 hours has to cause a certain amount of whiplash.
{Sadface}
different-church-lady
@BR: That’s his lane.
Archon
@NotoriousJRT: You know there are plenty of stories and books on this subject. Most of Obama’s advisers told Obama to drop it or to push something smaller after Scott Brown won that Massachusetts senate seat. Pelosi agreed with Obama that they should still try to push it though, which they did.
I genuinely don’t understand this bash Obama revisionism from Democrats.
KatKapCC
@Gretchen: It’s also such a strange thing to go after someone over. You can have some control over your speaking voice–you can modulate your volume, change the pitch, etc. But your laugh just is what it is, when it happens naturally. It’s just gonna sound however it’s gonna sound. Some people snort, some people get high-pitched, some people have a deep chuckle, etc.
And jeezy, who cares? Making a lighthearted jest over someone’s funny laugh is one thing, but trying to use it as some sort of weapon is just odd.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Archon: They’re mad. They were mad then, too, and I didn’t get it.
This time they have good reason. If some lash out a little beyond reason, well, they’re responding to something very unreasonable that happened yesterday.
Bupalos
@BR: I note Kate Riga over there too, who was providing the tea leaves and actually maybe reading them a little better than Josh too.
she said early on something that made me stop dismissing Ezra Klein… basically that you could not find anyone working for any elected dem that would tell you off record that they thought Biden would win or wanted him to stay in. The opinion he would lose AND kill downballot according to her and Klein was near universal.
It’s why I see “stabbed in the back” memes almost backwards. If anyone, Biden is the one who was more showing a kind of “disloyalty,” we just don’t think in those terms because we’re used to disloyalty that being an aspect of a one-way power relation.
Jackie
@Zzyzx:
In all of yesterday’s craziness, somewhere I read or heard that after Joe endorsed Kamala, Nikki Haley supporters are breaking for Presidential Candidate MVP. I hope this is true!🤞🏻
Steve LaBonne
@Belafon: This. Frankly I see little reason to believe that Obama wanted to move the party to the left.
rb
@Jinchi:
I agree. This is why I dissent from the interpretation that my vote was “tossed” or that this process ends democracy as we know it. In point of fact it was an action taken to preserve the possibility of democracy in this country, given what we are up against.
We are not a direct democracy and never have been. We participated in choosing a champion to represent us as members of a political party. That in extreme circumstances that person might need to be replaced, and the party would make that decision, comes with the territory.
In this case it’s a luxury that there was an implied second in command by virtue of Biden and Harris running as a ticket. This means that in this extreme case Harris becomes the nominee and the party supports her against ‘surprise’ entrants. As long as this happens, the implied agreement under which I voted is satisfied.
I am incensed by the prestige media’s performance in this debacle and the behavior of unnamed ‘senior Democratic aides’ or whoever leaking like sieves. I share the concern that many have expressed that this emboldens the prestige media to believe they can push out a candidate in the future. But who are we kidding? They always thought this. It doesn’t work when the candidate has the wherewithal to fight back (see for instance both Clintons).
I think it is naive to imagine that leadership – and particularly a mind of the strategic and tactical caliber of Nancy Pelosi – are ‘tossing’ millions of votes on a whim. Recall that Pelosi rammed the ACA through the house knowing it would lose her the majority, when everyone else involved was – like the chumps we’re always told Democrats are – willing to let it die on the 1 yard line. Of all of them, she is least in the business of fucking around for fucking around’s sake, least about exercising and preserving power just because.
I’m heartbroken for President Biden given what he has done and accomplished – far more than I ever would have envisioned – but that is a personal emotion. If he can’t vigorously campaign then it’s the party’s job to understand this without passion and to bring in the backup forthwith.
If we don’t like or understand this we should dissolve parties and run everyone as an independent.
trollhattan
@bbleh: Misogyny remains the final mountain to climb WRT the nation’s highest office. Hillary lost to ManPig.
Every little detail matters, going forward, VP choice foremost I suspect. Confess to no idea who our Johnny Unbeatable might be.
different-church-lady
@Steve LaBonne: It’s a corollary to Murc’s law: “The only way Trump returns to the presidency is if Democrats blow it.” Nobody is ever allowed to blame the huge chunk of people who really do want Trump-flavored fascism.
TooManyJens
@Steve LaBonne:
One thing that’s really been driven home to me over the past couple of decades is that the 30% and the 15% are always there. The 30% are just quieter when they’re disempowered, and the 15% are a lot less dangerous when fascism’s not a viable option.
I used to be naive enough to think that we made progress by changing people’s minds. And that does happen with the people you can actually reach, but also the 30% just have to be kept as far away from power as possible because there’s no changing them.
BobbyK
So, now that the fat orange turd is officially the oldest person ever to run for President, will the media pile on him? He has clearly been addled for years now, his speeches degrading into incoherent babbling, which the media ignored BTW. Or will all this “To old to run for office” magically disappear? My money is on the age issue will magically disappear.
Spanish Moss
I love this:
That is why I will never pie anyone.
I will also give a shout out to Josh Marshall over at TalkingPointsMemo. He has been doing a great job at trying to interpret what is going on and discussing the ramifications of different options without trying to sell a particular choice. His relative objectivity has been invaluable to me these past weeks.
Thor Heyerdahl
Thank you John for putting into words how I feel. I learned about it last night in Frankfurt, and felt like shouting “fuck” at the restaurant. It felt like a scummy internal putsch.
As a Canuck, I’ll do what I can to help legally. Full on for Harris and let’s kick Trump’s ass.
Belafon
@Steve LaBonne: I think he tried, but I think he thought he could get it mostly by legislative achievements.
EZSmirkzz
Just remember kids; coat hangers belong in the closets, not people.
TBone
@rikyrah: looks like a deep fake Photoshop to me (fingers, blurry red lines, etc.).
Hildebrand
@chemiclord: I wonder if Slotkin is any more nervous about Hill Harper now. I know that many in the congregation I serve in Detroit are firmly in Harper’s camp.
Harper came to one of our community meetings a few months ago; he did a decent job – though his staff were leftover Bernie bros and they were very annoying – so much so that one our regulars shredded the main spokesperson during the meeting for being a ‘condescending jackass’.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Also, too, coat hangers don’t belong in people.
Jackie
@rikyrah: AWESOME!!!👍🏻
SatanicPanic
@NotoriousJRT: I don’t think there’s any way to accurately measure who should get credit for what in these situations
MomSense
I told my kids on our group text last night that Washington is always credited with stepping down as a way to ensure the peaceful transfer of power – the most important agreement in a democracy. And it’s not lost on me that at a time when the opposition literally tried to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power in the last election Biden in this fraught moment restored it and gave our country the best possible defense of Democracy.
Bupalos
@rikyrah: No one’s place in history is secure. If post truth right-wing authoritarianism continues to gain in popularity due to global destabilizations, it will warp history along with everything else.
Witness Nazi and holocaust revisionism underway now. Witness attempts to pass memory laws about history books needing to make white kids feel proud.
Steve LaBonne
@BobbyK: The press may want it to magically disappear but they’ll have a hard time if Harris and other Democrats pound it relentlessly. And I think they will.
KatKapCC
@TBone: I’m no expert, but the fingers all look normal to me, and the red blur is the reflection of the lighted sign.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Trump is hilariously upset about this. He’s “truthing” about how unfair it all is. It warms my heart.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Steve LaBonne: Yeah, no way will the media ignore what Democrats have to say…
Bupalos
@MomSense: This could be a really powerful contrast that I really never considered in the run up to Biden’s decision.
Cacti
@Jackie: Cooper is 67. If we want to set up a VP as a successor candidate to President Harris, Cooper is not a great choice due to age.
If we’re going to get younger at the top of the party, let’s do it in both slots of the 2024 ticket.
Archon
@TooManyJens: Anyone on the outside looking in with a basic understanding of American history would say the United States is extremely vulnerable to some version of fascism. It’s difficult for Americans to come to terms with that. When I really started to worry is when conservatives starting going in on, “Fascism is really a left-wing movement”. Once you a prepared to push that level of propaganda you are basically laying the groundwork to justify and defend anything your side does.
Wombat Probability Cloud
@Jeffro: The AZ gov can appoint a replacement, the only downside being they have to later run in a special election. A question on my mind is which would be more consequential in delivering their state for the Dems (plus the consideration of almost twice as many electoral college votes in PA.
rikyrah
Dark White House Press Secretary (@lacadri34) posted at 5:49 AM on Mon, Jul 22, 2024:
Please understand that I’m a BW who does not question the abilities of another black woman who has been a DA, AG, senator from CA and is now VP. What I question is white voter’s ability to do the right thing. Y’all gave us Trump 8 years ago. Democracy was on the ballot then too.
(https://x.com/lacadri34/status/1815338484108030386?t=qJe0ajvOUlqRjoQ5fvmcMA&s=03)
Ken
Caught the car again, did they?
I imagine a little of the panic is because in the back of their minds, they realize one of them might have to tell Trump that he’s the old guy now.
OId Man Shadow
It’s so nice to see that Joe has recovered from being a feeble, weak, old man with senility, dementia, and Parkinson’s and has become a great American hero to the Democratic party again.
pajaro
I was absolutely in favor of staying with Biden, and I hate the way he was treated. But it’s done, and we are where we are. The hand-off could hardly have gone better, and I assume Biden had something to do with that. The last 20 or so hours have revealed stuff that can give us a small amount of optimism–the Republicans are completely freaking out, Trump is signaling he’s chicken out on the debate, the fund raising numbers reported by Act Blue have been tremendous, and might give some courage to people in the event big money donors don’t fall over themselves to help Harris, and a really large chunk of the Congressional delegation and potential opponents have endorsed her. I called a Congressman and Senator who haven’t endorsed her yet and told them to do so, so I feel like I’ve done something.
Finally, I understand that we don’t want to decrease our Senate numbers, but I’m really interested in Mark Kelly for Vice President. I understand that he could be replaced by another Democrat given the fact that we have a Democratic governor. It’s an important purple state. And I would so look forward to a debate between the Astronaut Kelly and the hedge fund worm Vance.
Hoodie
I’m not sure I buy into the whole “they done Joe wrong” thing. A lot of people had genuine concerns that Joe was going to lose badly and take down other Dem candidates with him. Yes, we have a process but we don’t have a candidate until after the convention. The money matters, the party matters and the party leadership are leaders for a reason. I was concerned that some might be trying to pass over Harris, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. In that respect they have not done Joe wrong; they’re honoring his choice of a successor. My guess is the calculus was Biden and Harris polled similarly but there wasn’t much chance of growth for Joe; in fact, the trend was looking negative. Harris changes the dynamic, it remains to be seen whether the trade off of younger and more energetic vs misogyny and racism pays off. It says more about the country than the Dem leadership that we were faced with this problem. A dead muskrat should be able to beat Trump.
Gvg
Hope Kamala offers Joe a cabinet position. Maybe Labor since that is where he is strong and she is considered weak. Also a fuck you to those who tried to screw us. He could have a lot of young energetic assistants to help but also train up and help make connections that will keep helping labor a democrats and people fro years to come. Build people “infrastructure “
matt
@Archon: they all fell in love with Obama – mere accomplishments are nothing in the face of that.
twbrandt
I was 100% on Team Joe and was extremely angry, upset, and frankly panicked when he announced his withdrawal yesterday. I was afraid there was no plan B and there would be complete chaos going into the convention. But given the way Dem leadership so quickly endorsed VP Harris, I’m quite sure this was in the works for a bit, and Biden had the support for Harris lined up before he announced. Despite many of the comments here, I’m quite certain Harris will be the nominee.
I’ve already donated to the Harris campaign, and will work just as hard for her as I would have for Biden.
delphinium
@different-church-lady: Including the media and their owners who have their thumbs on the scale for Trump.
Wombat Probability Cloud
@bbleh: In complete agreement.
EZSmirkzz
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
If Republicans win the Congress America will look like Sears too, also too.
twbrandt
@Hildebrand: FWIW, I voted for Harper in the primary precisely because I was so pissed at Slotkin.
Jackie
@FDRLincoln: YES!
I so hope MVP/President Candidate gets to debate the churlish babyman and get to use her contagious belly laugh directly AT him – along with the live audience.
That would humiliate him like nothing else!
Belafon
@pajaro: I believe Republicans in AZ passed a law requiring the replacement be from the same party because they were worried about a Democratic governor replacing a Republican.
am
Thank you
Thank you
Thank you
Thank you
Yup
Not a super high value post on my part. But you managed to say what I feel (god help you).
BretH
@Frankensteinbeck: agree. I saw the debate and was fairly horrified, but of the mind that it was just a bad night. And I was pissed at commenters here who asserted they saw a constant decline since 2020 and age was an enemy we weren’t going to be able to beat.
Then seeing the media highlighting Bidders age relentlessly, clips of him walking slowly or just looking out of it I realize we all saw what was fed to us.
Still was thinking Biden could win but then the announcement and – yes, the same relief when I realize we won’t be seeing those clips any more, nor do we have to worry about some future stumble at an inopportune time.
I’ve un-pied folks here and feel a little sheepish, and grateful I didn’t make some comments I really regret.
Eunicecycle
@KatKapCC: I am not sure I’ve ever heard Trump laugh! He smirks or sort of grimaces to try to smile.
Ruckus
@John Cole:
I believe that one of the things that has made Joe Biden the human and politician that he is, is because he respects people, even people that seem to hate him because he is not their first or even their last choice as president. And if you fall, climb or jump into that group then no matter what, all you are going to see is his faults. And of course his main fault is his speaking. His brain is fine, maybe better than fine but of course it has a not unnoticeable issue, not an issue of the thought process, but of the speaking process. He is also an old. And a very good one at that. He is willing to sacrifice his position, likely his political life goal, being president for the overall health of the country and it’s people. That is not insignificant, that is the path of a true patriot. That’s the foot soldier who runs in front of the incoming to protect a buddy or jumps on a grenade. Now his political opposition will never see it that way, but that’s what he’s done, give up his own for the possible betterment of everyone else. Now I don’t know that that is his rational, his thought process, but that’s what it looks like to me.
TBone
Bob Cesca xit re: Von Shitzinpantz:
(Picture of troof soshul meltdown at link.)
https://x.com/bobcesca_go/status/1815173622031376776
Not a moment too soon to return to one of my favorite pasttimes – slagging on the ball gargling thundertwat. 😁
suzanne
@matt:
Obama inspired a generation of people to see themselves as representatives of a newer and better country. That matters.
Hoodie
@Cacti: that’s exactly why you pick Cooper. The history of vice presidents following two term presidents isn’t that great. You pick someone like Cooper precisely because he’s unlikely to run for president at age 75. AFAIK, he’s never had presidential aspirations. That opens the field for the Whitmers, Shapiros, etc.
rb
@brendancalling:
I think that with this point of view you represent many voters, and that it’s easy for us ‘online’ folks to forget that just because what you say rhymes with the things the NYT bleats from is headlines hourly doesn’t mean that what you are saying is not real and is not valid.
Thank you for the image of the sunflower and the honeybees. That sounds so lovely.
Wombat Probability Cloud
@AnnaN: Craft an outrageous official act with a benign outcome to highlight the Supremes’s absurd immunity decision?
Dadadadadadada
You know how some people see George Washington’s decision to not seek a third term? As a magnanimous gesture of putting the country’s welfare over personal concerns?
If Harris ends up winning, I think Biden’s withdrawal will be remembered like that.
PST
@trollhattan:
I cannot control my longing to see that debate. Mayor Pete probably isn’t the best choice for running mate, but wow, would that be fun. Among other things, he would avoid direct insults like that one, he would just demonstrate over and over that Vance is an ignorant ideologue by correcting errors and pointing out contradictions, showing at the same time that Vance has little ability to think before he speaks. (BTW, Vance didn’t attend Harvard.)
KatKapCC
@Eunicecycle: Yeah, same. I’ve seen him do a sort of fake smirky laugh, but never a genuine laugh.
Honestly…I know armchair diagnosing is bad, but he truly seems like a sociopath to me.
KatKapCC
@Hoodie: Good point.
Chris
@Archon:
When I really started to worry was when they all jumped on board “Bush wasn’t a real conservative” in 2009.
That, to me, is what fascism is in the most technical sense. It’s what happens when all the angry and stupid bigots who have been rallied by conservative elites using their prejudices, stop having faith in these conservative elites and insist on going into politics for themselves.
What happens next is the totally predictable result of going into politics when the only thing you know about it involves Masonic Conspiracies and Jewish Stabs-In-The-Back.
dnfree
@different-church-lady: I freaked out in the first 20 minutes of the debate, and it didn’t get that much better. Not only when Joe was speaking; when he was waiting for Trump he stood slack-jawed, looking like someone who got off at the wrong bus stop and didn’t know where he was.
Is he still a great president and human being? Sure. But did he look ready for another four years? No.
The debate was heavily hyped as being on Biden’s terms and earlier than usual. I was ready to see Biden show that he was ready to take on another term. He was not the Biden of four years ago. That’s the reality I saw. Apparently so did the big donors.
Eunicecycle
@Dorothy A. Winsor: poor baby! If he had run on some actually popular policies he wouldn’t be in this position.
Cacti
@Hoodie: We’ll have to disagree here. When there are so many good, younger choices, the time to move the party past candidates born in the 1940s and 50s is now.
TBone
Going with full-on Corn and not apologizing as I was instructed to never do by an astute BJer. 🎶
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0IA3ZvCkRkQ
Fixed link
guachi
The rules were followed. No rules have been broken. If you can point to any rule that wasn’t followed I’d like to see it.
This is not the way Presidential primaries work. Millions of people did not vote for Joe Biden. They voted for delegates. Voters don’t choose the candidate. Delegates do. Delegates are, IIRC, free to vote for whomever they want to at the convention. No primary voter was disenfranchised. You voted for delegates. The delegates still exist and the delegates will still vote.
Biden did not win the nomination. The convention hasn’t even happened yet. There is no nominee.
Captain C
@RobertS:
I suspect there will be some awkward evenings between J.D. and Usha this fall.
Ruckus
@mali muso:
Kamala Harris was my choice in the CA primary. I think she is fine, a decent human being, and better than any rethuglican for the job. And yes that is a low bar but for her that is a simple step over, hardly has to even lift her foot, like to step over a single piece of paper. So I’ve already voted once for her as a presidential candidate. And I’ll gladly do so again.
Ken
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Not just unfair, but he spent money running against Biden. You know that hurts him more.
different-church-lady
@dnfree: I’m not saying any of it was good. I’m saying the freakout made it worse.
If it’s true Biden had a cold, that would explain the slack jawed thing quite easily. EVERYONE of all ages looks like that with a stuffed-up head.
Convenient explanation laying right there. Nobody was interested, just went right to OMG THEY’RE RIGHT HE’S SENILE!!!
Because that’s what they were primed BY THE ENEMY to believe. And they just… did.
And here’s the rub: trying to spin things doesn’t prevent you from taking steps to get Biden to drop out behind the scenes.
To answer Casey Stengal’s question: no, nobody here knows how to play this game.
Archon
@suzanne: Obama also gave this country a path to a soft landing from global hegemon to leader among equals with unparalleled moral, political, and economic prestige and we found out a huge percentage of this country would rather we just go full imperial and transactional.
Biden to his everlasting credit was able to claw alot of that back but even if Harris wins America can never completely regain that after Trump.
Bupalos
Actually it’s not done. Here’s an alternate way to look at it: While pols felt he was being disloyal to them and the party by going it alone, they reciprocated. Now that he’s reminded himself who he is and that who he is above all is a member of a team, it’s going to be an all-out love fest beyond what this party had conferred on any figure of the last several decades. There will be genuine flowing tears of appreciation for his accomplishments and his service and his example of statesmanship. The “sir” stories are going to be real and belong to Joe Biden.
KatKapCC
ActBlue ticker is over $91 million. Wonder if it will hit 100 today.
Burnspbesq
There appears to be a real upsurge in enthusiasm among voters around my kid’s age (he’s 30). In their eyes, Dems have transitioned from Grandpa Joe Who We Love But Who Is Obviously Fighting a Losing Battle Against the Actuarial Tables to Way Cool Aunt Kamala.
Captain C
@Mai Naem mobile: I think Schiff endorsed Harris already.
p.a.
Tangents:
I’m pretty regular here, maybe just fortunate timing: I didn’t see any gloating, as some are accused of. Plenty of disagreement, sharper than usual. (Just what the Reputinican Party aims for of course.)
Manchin: what is it with him?: virtual 100% support for Joe’s judge picks (widely considered left-of-center, correct?), and a huge pain in the ass for everything else? Maybe he thinks his supporters don’t pay attention to judge votes?
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@dmsilev: Every cloud has a silver lining they say. Maybe everyone ignoring Netanyahu is this one’s silver lining.
Jinchi
@Captain C:
He did
Schiff throwing ‘full support’ behind Harris
TBone
Not out here to write history books on the Internet. Out here to write herstory, punch fascists, and WIN!
Just Some Fuckhead
assholes often make great points
I feel seen.
Ruckus
@Archon:
Once you a prepared to push that level of propaganda you are basically laying the groundwork to justify and defend anything your side does.
Ask yourself “What is their platform?”
“What are their goals?”
If the true answer to those questions is power rather than leadership then absolutely your goal is only power, not realism, not running a democracy but power and only power.
grumbles
No comment on local drama, I was not here.
101% committed to President Harris.
Also fully committed to not giving the NYT another fucking dime. If I feel the need to be gaslit about politics, I’ll take the more honest folks over at Fox; if I feel the need to be lectured about why being liberal should make me feel bad, the Atlantic does that just fine. I don’t need that bucket of self-important shit-snakes in my life.
Speaking of shit-snakes, I’m also pleased that Musk is finally getting the fuck out of my town. Texas is welcome to him and Xitter.
Tony G
@AnnaN: Yup. From my point of view, anyone who is “undecided” about Trump since 2015 is really, really dumb.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Just Some Fuckhead: Walter Sobchak has entered the chat.
rikyrah
The Prosecutor Vs The Felon
I want it on a t-shirt
I want it on a tote bag
I want it on a mug
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
Democracy was on the ballot then too.
Democracy is always on the ballot in any country that has a government structure similar to ours. Because there will always be people looking for power. I had one captain in the USN that was not LOOKING for POWER. He understood his job was to run the ship, lead the crew, be part of the whole, not the god king. One out of, if I remember correctly, 5, possibly 6. The rest, their goal was god king. It is a very significant difference.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: Shut the fuck up, Donnie.
John S.
@pajaro:
I am also on board for Harris/Kelly. I understand the concern over tapping a Senator, but damn that would be one formidable ticket.
Martin
@SatanicPanic: We’ve really damaged this generation, mostly by our selfishness. The wholesale transfer of wealth from young to old is inexcusable. The refusal to treat climate change as a Manhattan project level problem is inexcusable. The dismissal of their concerns as unimportant or unworthy.
I argued back in 2020 in the runup to Covid that schools should have been the last thing to close in this country for two reasons: 1) because schools really are the backbone of public health in this country and would be instrumental to communicating good public health practices back to parents, as infrastructure for vaccine distribution, 2) because maintaining the continuity of life for students is more important than keeping bars open and is feasible because you can give students direction and enforce that in a way you can’t do with the general public in pretty much any other setting. You can safely operate a school during covid with some effort. And, well, we told the students to go fuck themselves, we’re keeping the bars open instead.
Eyeroller
One thing to keep in mind, also, too, is that some of the “bad vibes” were really not about Joe’s age. That was just something to which people could pin their anxieties. Every pandemic-era leader has been unpopular and in recent elections their parties have been either wiped out (UK) or weakened (most of the rest). The French managed to pull their heads out of their asses, apparently at the last minute, but there’s still a fractured center/leftist coalition in power now. We’ve had plenty of discussions here about how unfair it was that Joe was getting blamed for inflation when he had no control over it, and in fact our inflation rate was one of the lowest in the world, but all we heard on Nice Polite Republican radios was “I can’t afford aaiiigs or milk to feed my 12 children!” On and on and on. He got blamed for the baby-formula crisis even though that was due to corner-cutting by the only major manufacturer left in the country due to consolidation. Etc.
Subsole
@rikyrah:
This.
I have said this elsewhere, but if possible, try to pull from a safely blue state. In a lot of red states, those governors and other pols are the only thing holding back some truly appalling stuff. We need to leave those folks protected, if we can.
ssdd
Whitmer staying in Michigan.
Subsole
@Chris:
While neatly sidestepping the fact it only worked out at all because the base saw their next move five miles off and laid down the law: Harris or else.
And thank God for black women. They saved this party from doing something cripplingly stupid. Again.
Bupalos
@different-church-lady: All along people have taken the spectacular failure at the debate and used it’s unique nature to deny what pols were much more attuned to: it was the most publicly visible manifestation of an established pattern that they were incredibly concerned about. The fundraiser Clooney talked about apparently freaked people out- they kept it on the dl. The inability to make and finish remarks at the Juneteenth event with the weird video had rock-solid allies “very concerned.” The leaks from Europe about leaders having uneven interactions with him…
The media didn’t run hard with any of this because it wasn’t being very openly confirmed, it was all happening in friendly venues. In this context the debate was a dam breaking event, not a one off you could excuse without now needing separate excuses for the rest.
This isn’t an attempt to litigate, beyond hoping some folks feeling overly negative about “betrayals” and “treason” and “coups” and thinking about future revenge on Schiff or Pelosi can consider this might look different than how it appeared to them at the time.
Cacti
The thought of Trump sputtering with incoherent rage after losing to a multiracial California liberal woman fills my heart with joy.
It is now the solemn duty of every good American to make this happen.
Spc123
@AnnaN: It’s about turnout/enthusiasm. That’s it.
jimmiraybob
I’m a bit surprised not to have seen this messaging yet from the Trump GOP:
EarthWindFire
@mali muso: Pretty much where I’ve ended up. But, since two of my 3 “Biden must go now” IRL folks pivoted immediately to “Kamala is a cop” yesterday, I’m doubtful about a win here. That and my ick with the shiftiness of it all, I’m uneasy today.
Since the odds are 9/10 that I’ll be unemployed within 6 months of Trump’s second inauguration, I can’t spend the time and energy with our new campaign as I’d like. Two households depend on my steady income, so I have to have a Plan B. I thought I would have until the October polls to think about that, but it looks like I better start sooner.
I’ll do the Postcards to Swing States I committed to, then hope for the best. Wish the new ticket well and hope that my plans are for nothing.
rb
@guachi:
Look, I agree with you on the technicalities, but this is a ‘technically correct – the best kind of correct’ – read and flies in the face of what the party does when it seeks the input of voters.
The fact is that voters are not going into the booth thinking “I am electing a Biden delegate,” nor is the party selling them the chance to vote for some random delegate. The party presents them with the option of voting for Joe Biden and they vote for Joe Biden. The end.
However! The caveat to this is that in this cycle primary voters were with full knowledge voting for the Biden / Harris ticket, even if Harris’ name was not formally on the ballot. As such, when Harris becomes the Democratic nominee, those votes will have been honored.
In a different universe Biden is not an incumbent and there is no ticket. In that universe, if it became necessary for him to step aside, an ‘open’ free for all would results. While technically lawful and entirely within the rules, this would be dramatically less ‘legitimate’ in terms of expressing the will of the voters.
Wombat Probability Cloud
@PST: I’d enjoy Trae Crowder for the debate, too. (Not sure about the VP responsibilities, but maybe fine…)
gwangung
@Bupalos: Appreciate your bringing receipts, even though I disagreed with your conclusions. It’s the sort of thing that I can disagree in good conscience (with a high helping of “I could be wrong here, but–“)
@Cacti: I think we would all agree on this.
Quinerly
@AnnaN:
I am hoping if anyone meets a Biden/Harris voter who suddenly has become a Trump voter because Harris is now at the top of the ticket, they question that voter and find out why. And report back here.
I don’t think such a voter exists.
PsiFighter37
@ssdd: A shame, because I think Whitmer in isolation would easily be the best pick. However, I am sure (and imagine everyone else in Dem politics too) would be very nervous about 2 women on the ticket. Sad reflection of our times / country…
Quinerly
@RobertS: 💚
Hoodie
@Cacti: VP is usually a pretty dead end job. You have no independent platform. You have to be loyal to the president, which can cost you politically. I would imagine most of the VP types with presidential ambitions are not interested. The younger candidates (Whitmer, Shapiro, Beshear, etc.) already have platforms to run from and don’t need to be VP. You want a VP who will get out of the way. Joe actually did that in 2016 and probably would never have run for president again but for Trump’s 2016 victory. He came out of retirement because he thought that he was the only person capable of beating Trump in 2020; he was probably right.
Subsole
@trollhattan:
Bio hoo. Fucker can quit and go home anytime he likes.
I absolutely will not cry if he takes his awful Ivy League Trailer Trash family and fucks off to one of his many exciting future timeshare opportunities.
KatKapCC
@Cacti: Yes, my joy at a Harris/Whoever win would be in part due to the absolute glee I’d feel over another Trump loss, and especially a loss to someone he clearly thinks is miles beneath him.
Quinerly
@Fair Economist: 💙
Bupalos
@Al Rennick: It just depends what you’re seeing. A general theme uniting those who are angry and feel betrayed (I’ll note this does not seem to include any pols) is a belief things were fine with Biden, that there was no serious pattern of decline, and that we were going to turn it around and win. That’s a different perspective and not “stupid.” It’s entirely possible. I think it’s very unlikely and thought I saw signs AFTER the debate in the appearances people were calling ‘good’ that he simply wasn’t communicating effectively or conducting the politics with any of his former skill or strengths. But people see what they see and so much here was and is unknown.
Archon
@Ruckus: It’s will to power now for the Republican Party, period. Frankly, Democrats and Biden made a critical error when they treated INSURRECTIONISTS SACKING THE U.S CAPITOL WITH THE FORMER PRESIDENTS PERMISSION!!!!, as a law enforcement, criminal justice matter and not a five alarm fire and attempted putsch by Republicans. Dealing with the implications of that should have been a moral, political, and legislative priority instead Biden and the Democrats thought getting the price of eggs down and getting Republicans to sign off on building roads in sparsely populated red states as the the priority.
I love Biden but he gravely misjudged what the priorities should have been for his first term domestically.
TooManyJens
@SatanicPanic:
My kid’s this age. They’ve chosen “grim determination” as a path forward, but some of their friends are a lot more pessimistic. The kids are pissed, and they’re resentful as hell that the “youth will save us” burden is being put on them after everything older generations have done to fuck them over.
Spc123
@stacib: It is not a lock by any means with any candidate but his candidacy was damaged and Ds usually need to be a bit ahead in the polls (like 5%+) to win given the EC, not neck and neck. The primary wasn’t a real contest either – it was a cleared field with no choice which is normal and understandable on the incumbent side – but it is not a real election, just a process necessity to get to the convention. 14M is pretty low turnout.
Scuffletuffle
@Just Some Fuckhead: Dude, really good to see you!!!
Hoodie
@rikyrah: North Carolina would fill in for either of those. Shapiro and Whitmer are sitting governors that can help keep the fuckery at bay from their offices. Cooper is term limited.
Quinerly
@suzanne: very good comment.
Spc123
@Juju.: No worries – he’s a grandiose gadfly who floated a trial balloon and it was instantly popped.
Ruckus
@Gvg:
As a human not much younger than Joe Biden I feel I at least basically understand being an old. It is different than the life most of us live getting to be an old. No matter who or what you are, at some point you peak. Age has a part in that, like it or not. Just like learning to read, to write, to think, when you are a child. Life changes. And one of those steps in life is actually getting to that stage, the stage of being old. Being president is a tough job, for a lot of reasons. One of them is the pressure. And that pressure is different as an old than it is as a child. Far different. And at some point as an old, dealing with pressure becomes once again, more difficult, or at least something that one has done enough of at a higher level. You want to not have to deal with it at a high level, even if that was normal for you for decades. I worked into my 70s and did not want to retire. But at some point the concept of less effort out becomes the goal. It does for everyone. At different times, and different levels but it does.
EarthWindFire
@Steve LaBonne: Nice try but no. I voted for Biden/Harris in that order. They stole my vote. Period.
That said, I will put what I can into a President-elect Harris, and hope that hope triumphs over experience. But it will only be what I can. My economic prospects are pretty bad in a second Trump administration and this switch made that much more prevalent for me. I’m not nearly as confident as a lot of you are.
Quinerly
@Steve LaBonne: Totally agree.
TBone
College radio in my neck ‘o the woods is not pissed.
They are jubilant today. 🎶
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vU9Dsl89UGo
And furthermore
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-L4or-De4TM
Now we are jamming to Irene Cara 🎶
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ynZCDm0IEVM
Spc123
@NotoriousJRT: Why? There is no excuse to sit it out.
Bupalos
@Archon: Biden had a theory that good governance and lowering the temperature was the way to slowly deal with it. He did an incredible job of putting that theory in practice and it does seem like some steam has come out of their movement. None of us really know what ultimately “works”here, as the bills for global warming and spiraling inequality come due amidst a time of technological destabilization of society. We’re going to have a couple decades of trying stuff I think.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Chris:
Which includes several long time commenters who also go out of their way to not specifically identify as Dems, it’s the ‘Loyal-Dems-But’ brigade (a most appropriate term used by UncleEbeneezer) and are now telling us this is how it had to be. Maybe, maybe not but the disingenuous of such statements is patently obvious.
It’s not surprising that those same people work on policies in urban environments that the base of the Democratic Party hate and push back on only to always lose. Thus, of course they’re not surprised at this turn of events.
Shane in SLC
@Archon: I don’t quite get the Obama resentment either, but “Biden’s too old” would be a lot easier to take from Pelosi if she weren’t running for reelection to her house seat at the youthful age of 84…
Soprano2
@nomokesh: I think Stephen Miller’s meltdown on cable TV yesterday gives us a glimpse of what they really think.
Martin
@Just Some Fuckhead: Man, it’s like someone threw up the batsignal.
Ksmiami
@Kirk: Cooper. It’ll push NC over the line. As someone who lived in Dallas for 5 yrs, Castro has been a disappointment.
SatanicPanic
@Martin: I agree but I also feel like it’s our parents’ generation that really fucked everyone. I think our kids looked at us GenX and later people and think- man these people are working hard and most of them can’t even afford a house. Why should I bother?
zhena gogolia
@Quinerly: Harris is not at the top of the ticket.
rikyrah
@pajaro:
JUDGES
JUDGES
JUDGES
We need the SENATE
No, to raiding the Senate.
If we drag Ruben across the finish line in November..
We get 4 years without the GOP in Arizona.
TBone
If ya keep gazing at yer navel, yer gonna stumble.
SatanicPanic
@TooManyJens: Can your kids share some of that energy with my son? He’s a good kid but he’s pretty adrift. I’m hopeful he just needs some time to relax and talk to his therapist.
Subsole
@Jackie: That asswipe is virulently, teeth-meltingly racist. I am just fine not knowing his thoughts about dealing with an Indo-Carib woman.
Though gods above and below, watching her push his face even deeper into the mud of Ukraine would be damn near worth the price of admission.
Eyeroller
@rikyrah: He would be replaced by a Democrat who would be appointed by the Democratic governor and would finish his term (which I think goes to 2026). The big concern is whether there’s any sufficiently strong candidate who could hold that seat should a Harris/Kelly ticket win.
Soprano2
@trollhattan: I listened to Greg Sargent interview Rick Wilson this morning. Wilson said Republicans have the press so cowed that they won’t even talk about how TCFG went on and on at his rally last weekend about how great all these dictators are. He said he knows because he used to be one of those people who launched hundreds of phone calls to the press every time they said something Republicans didn’t like. He said they’re completely cowed and trained now, which is hugely unfortunate. He didn’t have a lot of ideas for how to fix it, though.
Spc123
@Steve Crickmore: This has been one of biggest gripes – a cleared field, no-choice election that is just run to get to the convention with the right paperwork – and the corresponding low turnout – is no election. Of course no one wants a fight if an incumbent is committed to running – it is totally natural why the DNC strongly discourages serious contenders from jumping in but the “my vote was stolen” stuff is a bit disingenuous.
Chris
@different-church-lady:
After three weeks of completely normal appearances, both official and unofficial, scripted and unscripted, with ordinary voters and with other statesmen, etc, “Biden had a cold” is by far the Occam’s Razor explanation for debate night. There’s a reason LGM had to shift to increasingly outlandish “he has Parkinsons, here are four conveniently unnamed Canadians Parkinsons specialists who remote-diagnosed him and agree with me!”
The responsible thing was always to express support in public and to wait around and see how the dust settled in the next couple weeks in private before making a decision. Problem was, after two weeks of normal appearances and unchanged poll numbers, the facts weren’t pointing the way the “overthrow Biden” people wanted them to, and the “overthrow Biden” people simply refused to take anything but “overthrow Biden” for an answer, so those of them with the financial clout to do so had to force the issue.
Where this goes from here, we can only cross our fingers hopefully about. But how it happened doesn’t augur well for the party in general, if only because it’s shown how vulnerable it remains to this kind of ratfucking.
Quinerly
Great endorsement statement by Pelosi.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
I won’t hold it against her.
Eyeroller
@Soprano2: Some of them seem to be natural bootlickers, however.
And if you thought there might be a question as to whether they would start talking about Trump’s age and unfitness, the answer so far is “no” because now the age issue is apparently off the table.
Soprano2
@WereBear: Back in 2020 Terri Gross interviewed an author who wrote a book about the 1918 pandemic. One thing she commented on was how there was so little written about it at the time, that if you read the news and literature a few years after it happened it was as if it never happened. The author said that yeah, it was so horrific people just wanted to forget about it. I think we’re seeing that a lot with Covid, especially that Republicans can use the “are you better off now than 4 years ago” line and people seem to automatically think about 2019, not 2020. It’s as if people have completely blanked 2020 out of their minds like it never happened, and Covid started in January 2021 when Biden became president.
KatKapCC
@zhena gogolia: Assuming that you will allow for at least the possibility that she does become the nominee, at that point, are you going to keep insisting that it doesn’t count and that at some point between the convention and the election, they’re going to take it away from her so we should never call her the nominee? If she wins, are you going to refuse to call her President?
TooManyJens
@SatanicPanic: A big factor in my kid not going full nihilist was finding a way to help in the community. If you can make a difference in a tangible way, even on a smaller local scale, it helps you feel like enough people working together can make a difference on a bigger scale too.
Subsole
@NotoriousJRT:
Ehhh…Biden had a very, very different party backing him.
I really don’t think that’s an apples to apples comparison.
I think they both did the absolute best they could with what they had available.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Martin: Right, I was surprised to see you here still doing that same counter-intuitive/Slate magazine bullshit.
Citizen Alan
@Archon: I think that Biden has been a more successful president in his one term than Obama was in his third term, but a good chuck of that can be attributed to Biden having a better and more unified Democratic Congress to deal with. OTOH, I can think of a single person in Biden’s cabinet who I think is even a bad choice, let alone moves me to fury, in the way that Arne Duncan, Tim Geithner, or Janet Napolitano.
Hoodie
@Steve LaBonne: Yeah, that criticism doesn’t hold much water. Add to that, Harris was personally endorsed by Biden. She’s not some out of left field backroom choice of party bigwigs and donors. Looks like his wishes for a graceful, honorable transition that largely conforms with his vision for the future are being fulfilled. As a long time Biden supporter, I think that’s a pretty fair deal considering the circumstances.
The idea that Joe is being forced out is kind of nonsensical. Yes, party leaders and donors put pressure on him to hang it up. However, Joe got where he was because he could play well with all of the elements of the party, the leadership, rank and file and big donors. Accordingly, all those groups have some say as to what happens. That’s how a political party works. He’d lost the confidence of at least two of those groups, which doesn’t even take into account the lack of enthusiasm among some of the rank and file, e.g., younger voters.
Archon
@Bupalos: I don’t think steam has come off at all with the right-wing, if anything they feel empowered now. How else can we explain Trump getting the nomination again and currently leading in the polls literally RUNNING ON the Democrats engaged in massive voter fraud and the people that stormed the capitol to stop the peaceful transfer of power are patriotic hostages?
Soprano2
@trollhattan: I’m really, really hoping that at least a few reporters start turning their attention to how unhinged TCFG sounds to the average person.
raven
“Today, it is with immense pride and limitless optimism for our country’s future that I endorse Vice President Kamala Harris for President of the United States,” she said in a statement. “My enthusiastic support for Kamala Harris for President is official, personal and political.”
“Officially, I have seen Kamala Harris’s strength and courage as a champion for working families, notably fighting for a woman’s right to choose. Personally, I have known Kamala Harris for decades as rooted in strong values, faith and a commitment to public service. Politically, make no mistake: Kamala Harris as a woman in politics is brilliantly astute – and I have full confidence that she will lead us to victory in November.
N Pelosi
Pittsburgh Mike
Well, John, the Presidency isn’t a participation prize. Biden has done an exemplary job in passing laws, but he’s been unable communicate effectively for quite a while. He certainly can’t communicate effectively about women’s reproductive rights — he can’t even say the word abortion.
Harris is sharp and should be able to run a winning campaign, as long as she doesn’t pull a Hilary and spend all her time talking about how historic it is that a Black woman is running, instead of explaining what Harris will do to make the country stronger.
Bupalos
@SatanicPanic: Not sure your age but everyone here is responsible for where we are. More than half the carbon in the atmosphere right now got put there since we knew about global warming. Chances are your footprint in that was well higher than your parents. Most of us continue to live as we have and make choices thoroughly soaked in a mindset that treats the open-eyed near ritual sacrifice of the earth as something we’re just bound to do.
Subsole
@JeffH:
Y’know, it is terrifying how good we are when we get out of our own way.
Quinerly
@zhena gogolia: are you actively rooting against Harris and for Trump so you can be “right?” It is beginning to sound like that to me.
I have avoided addressing you directly but have followed your MANY comments and negativity in the last 24 hrs.
Now tell me that I am “policing” your comments. I’ll check back when this thread reaches 600 comments.
KatKapCC
@Quinerly: Where are you seeing it? Nothing on her socials.
Quinerly
@Pittsburgh Mike: THIS!!!!
Quinerly
@KatKapCC: just heard it read on MSNBC.
O. Felix Culpa
@Chris:
No lie told. And I will work my heart out for Kamala, assuming she ends up being our candidate.
Quinerly
@raven: 💚💙💛🩵
Subsole
@wjca:
That’s because they don’t care.
Their plan is to install Photonegative Idi Amin as king, and let Scunfuck Roberts and his Supreme Guardian Council rule by fiat.
Lesser posts would be filled by, essentially, satraps.
Ivan X
I’ve made a point of keeping my voice out of the comments, because it was obvious that people were feeling really bruised by this, and I didn’t see any benefit to “well I feel differently about it, so maybe you can/should too” while people are still smarting, if not feeling outright betrayed. That’s just not how people roll.
I’ll say my peace now. I’ve got someone in my life who is sadly in moderate phases of age-related decline, and while he was aware of that, he wouldn’t fully take ownership of it in the way that I felt was reponsible to me and others. Perhaps he couldn’t. I finally had to, very sadly, make a unilateral decision to stop working with him in order, frankly, to look out for my own interests. I would have much preferred it been a consensus decision; it certainly would have felt better, but that wasn’t available. I certainly felt as though I was letting this person down after all he’d given me.
So, I’ve been watching this drama all play out through that very personal lens. When one commenter here said that after that first 15-20 minutes of the debate, he had the same feeling in his gut as when previously in his professional life it became apparent that a senior faculty member needed to be made to retire, I was like “yeah, that.” Sad, but evident.
I feel that Biden’s been a great President. Unlike many here, I have always been dreading this 2024 election, because frankly, to me, and to I think most normies, Biden always projected as being quite old. Even in 2020. It was unfortuantely magnified by his speech challenges, both in terms of his stutter, and the age-related weakness of his voice, and his general lack of oratorical gifts. Over these four years, all of that has worsened, as have his phsyical movements. And yes, I do think the electorate is ageist, and I think a lot of voters, especially young ones, were going to just sit this one out. And that would mean a Trump victory.
But, at the debate, it was a whole different level. President Biden didn’t just seem old — he seemed possibly not able to do this work anymore. He seemed not Presidential. He seemed unable to deal a blow to a quite weak and vulnerable Trump. And while I wouldn’t hesitate to vote for Biden again, I personally don’t have confidence of his abilities in the most stressful job in the world over four more years, and nor did I have confidence that he’d have the self-awareness and humility to step away if he couldn’t do it. And if he couldnt finish his term, then I’d really be voting for Harris anyway.
Which I’m fine with. My concerns are everyone’s concerns — she’s got the wrong gender and race for a lot of people — and she underperformed in 2020. But I do know she’s got more verve than 2024 Biden…or Trump.
I don’t feel like I owe a politician anything if they’re going to lose their election. The stakes are too high. Obviously, it was far from a faît accompli that Biden would lose, but after that debate — and the subsquent press conference where he accidentally called Zelenskyy Putin — I saw him losing. There was just no coming back from it.
Further, every young person I have spoken to for months to talked of how demoralized they felt about having to choose between people of an age they feel a universe away from, which I get. I don’t think they would have voted for Trump, but I just don’t know that they would have voted.
I didn’t see where Biden could gain ground against Trump. Yes, maybe he could squeak it out from enough people crawling over glass to vote against TCFP, but I’d be holding my breath until the very end. He wasn’t a weak candidate in 2020, but he had become one in 2024.
Finally, as to whether he was done raw — of course he was. He was literally forced out. But he had a role in this, too. I didn’t see him owning his debate performance — that was more than a bad night. I know he has a stutter, and that one bad performance doesn’t mean he doesn’t know his field very deeply, but we don’t make apologies for our leaders. Biden’s performance was such to invite people to ask whether he was up to the job of President on a consistent basis — that question would always linger after any subsequent good nights he may have had through the rest of the election cycle. Being able to only sort of do the job isn’t good enough.
And, actually more significantly, the debate also led me to worry whether he was up to the task of going after the most attackable opponent to ever run. He needed a double, but he struck out. The powers that be intervened. It’s shitty as hell, and I feel bad for him, and I think there are substantial risks with Harris as the candidate. But there’s also the possibility of really gaining ground. I didn’t see that with Biden. Personally, I wish he’d had the self-awareness to not seek a second term. But that won’t change my gratefulness to him for being an excellent President when we badly needed one.
For all those here who feel betrayed, angry, and as though democracy has been subverted, I mean, I get it. You’re not wrong, and you have my sympathy. Personally, I feel that sometimes the right things happen for the wrong reasons, and this is one of those times. But I’m certainly not going to ask you to feel differently.
Subsole
@Jeffro:
Limbaugh is still absolutely flabbergasted at how much he smells like roasting pork…
Archon
@Citizen Alan: I freely admit I’m an Obama stan but I love Biden too and hate the way he got pushed out, especially when it seemed like there was no plan but at a certain point instead of us lamenting the fact that the “best President of our lifetime”, got pushed out we might want to ask ourselves, “Why is Biden’s approval rating 38 percent?” or, “Why was he currently losing to Trump who is openly running on a retribution agenda?”
We might conclude that absolutely none of this is his fault, but we should be asking these questions, right?
Quinerly
@KatKapCC: be careful….tones of “policing” someone’s comments.
Chris
@Subsole:
Well, that and even more crudely, it only worked out (assuming it does in fact work out) because the “stick with Biden” voters have the willingness to put support for the team over their own vision of What The Team Should be Doing, while the “dump Biden” voters were utterly incapable of doing the same (hence this whole crisis)
As usual, people who read the New York Times should get everything they want, and it’s everybody else’s job to ensure that they do, because if we didn’t, then they wouldn’t be happy, and then where would the world be?
O. Felix Culpa
@rikyrah: I like that! Very encouraging.
Dave
@Jinchi: Newsome and Buttigieg are both very ambitious but also not complete idiots and have to recognize the necessity for unity in the current moment.
Bupalos
@Archon: We’ll, things are relative and the immigration-fueled global march to the right isn’t stopping on a dime no matter what approach we take. It has millions of tons of CO2 and trillions of dollars of inequality powering it. Victory right now is slowing the growth rate of post-truth right wing authoritarianism and defending what we can for when the winds swing around to our back.
Paul in KY
@stacib: Only a crazy person thinks this is a ‘lock’. VP Harris and the new VP nominee are going to have to campaign hard till election day. We need to help them as best we can!
Eyeroller
@Archon: Really it’s mostly the post-pandemic hangover, and inflation. Biden’s approval rating was actually one of the higher ones among Western post-pandemic leaders. Only the fascist lady in Italy was doing better and even she was underwater.
Soprano2
@Taobhan: If we lose to TCFG in November, it’ll make what’s happened since the debate look like a cake walk. It’ll tear the Democratic Party apart.
Paul in KY
@Chris: This. He always had wanted to transcend factional politics. Sorta naïve in a way.
Still love him though.
Citizen Alan
The past week or so has reminded me of the rancor here at BJ in the month or so leading up to the ACA’s final passage. I myself was livid at Obama at the time because I believed (and frankly still believe) that he prioritized putting out a bipartisan bill over the best possible bill, with the end result that we dithered unnecessarily for months in a futile effort to get Susan Collins and Olympia Snow on board just to have the tiniest bit of red among the blue votes. At the time, I was absolutely convinced that Obama would end up offering the GOP national tort reform and get nothing in return except “bipartisan creds.”
Subsole
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Don’t get cocktail.
Elon and a bunch of the absolute scummiest scum of the earth are pouring in money.
The GOP is the rich man’s party. And they are desperate. They will NOT lack funding.
Archon
@Bupalos: I get this rightwing movement is bigger than the United States but then again other capitols weren’t stormed with the approval of the sitting President to prevent the peaceful transfer of power.
So one might be forgiven for thinking America is in a unique situation that required a unique response.
KatKapCC
@Quinerly: Well, awesome, I’m glad she did it. Hopefully it’ll be posted soon!
Soprano2
@suzanne: It’s my firm belief that we’re all suffering from some form of PTSD as a result of the pandemic. For a year we all walked around knowing that an encounter with anyone could give us a disease that could kill us or someone we love, and there was no definitive way to prevent it from happening. Of course people are hugely traumatized by that, to say nothing of all the social connections we lost as a result of the measures we took to minimize the chance of getting sick and dying. Our symphony orchestra actually did concerts in 2020-2021 – modified for Covid – and I have made it a point to thank their staff and the conductor several times for it. We were one of the few cities where they did that. They said they figured that was what the rainy day fund was for, because they certainly didn’t make any money that year. I was so appreciative that we could go to concerts, even if it wasn’t exactly like it had been before. It was a slice of something that approached normal life, and a reminder that eventually normalcy would come back.
Ksmiami
@rikyrah: Cooper
KatKapCC
@Ivan X: Excellent comment. I hear you on all these points.
Citizen Alan
@Godless Rockhead: I still don’t see that Biden has “declined mentally” so much as that his ability to cope with his stutter has diminished, he is not as physically vigorous as he was four years ago, and he has developed “old man voice” which makes him seem more feeble than I think he is. YMMV. I mean, this “decline” you speak if it existed happened between the SOTU and the debate. Because of SOTU Joe had come out at the debate, I think he would have humiliated Trump utterly.
Subsole
@p.a.:
We go grab that filthy, ratfucking Green party, and we take it over.
“Surprise motherfucker!”
LAC
@Quinerly: Why don’t you and KatKapCC stop telling people how to feel? Okay? You have no fucking idea about where people’s heads are after 24 hours nor do you have any inside knowledge about this upcoming convention. Leave people alone or pie them. You trying to control the narrative here is tone policing. And after weeks of this nonsense, call it a day. When POCs are ready for your input on how to feel and when to feel, we will let you know.
Bupalos
@Soprano2: Hopefully not. We were likely to lose before and we’re likely to lose now. Every administration is getting dumped from office worldwide as a destabilized politics tries to find new footing. It’s a terrible time to be an incumbent, there is no benefit to that right now. The far right continues to grow even as the vagaries of different systems produce uneven electoral results for them.
we’re in a bad position and we have to fight for each other.
me
@Subsole:
I wouldn’t hold my breath that Elon will fork over that money, he lies about everything. Of course, that doesn’t necessarily apply to the other neo-fascist techbros.
Archon
@Citizen Alan: We lived in more quaint times during the Obama years where cabinet choices were important to alot of people, including the press.
Nowadays I bet your 90+ percent of people can’t name who the education secretary is.
Quinerly
@LAC: I guess you don’t want to hear my feelings about pie.
Citizen Alan
@Spanish Moss: Honestly, I mainly pie people who trigger my anxieties because I come here to get away from that. I haven’t checked TPM in over two weeks because to me Josh Marshall has just been doom-posting.
KatKapCC
@LAC: No one is telling the commenter how to feel, but they sure seem to be telling US how to feel, and to me, the implication seems to be that they do not want Harris to be the nominee. But even if that’s not the case, this constant SHE’S NOT THE NOMINEE!!!!!! stuff is petulant and pointless. No one here thinks Harris has been officially nominated, but it’s highly unlikely it’ll be someone else.
Eyeroller
@Citizen Alan: I don’t get it either, it’s like people are seeing what they want to see and ignoring all other evidence. Even people going into dementia don’t decline that rapidly (March to June) and they certainly don’t recover their faculties completely the next day. These interlocutors just kept setting test after test and he passed them all (still has the old-man voice though, that’s not in dispute) but they’re all still stuck on that one evening.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@KatKapCC: Having successfully participated in a coup against the President, Quinerly and his like are working hard to build resentment toward his chosen successor.
Quinerly
@KatKapCC: this has been going on several threads. For DAYS. If anyone corrects or disagrees with the commenter, they are accused of policing her tone.
Citizen Alan
Agreed. I am resigned to the fact that every presidential election for the rest of my life will be a game of Russian Roulette played on the national scale. Because I don’t foresee a future in my lifetime in which we don’t have 45% or so of the electorate happy to vote for the Hitler of the Day just because they hate liberals.
Quinerly
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I must not understand “pie.” You made your grand announcement of “pieing” me. Yet, you still can see my comments. Baffling.
Manyakitty
@Soprano2: absolutely agree about the PTSD. COVID broke a lot of things and people. It will take decades to figure it out.
Eyeroller
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I’m pretty sure Quinerly is a she and I don’t see that she’s trying to knife Harris. But I think it important that we unite as quickly as possible since this whole episode has been extremely divisive and we also cannot afford to lose a month of campaigning against Trump, even if Harris isn’t “coronated” until August.
Subsole
@KatKapCC: As long as we’re doing that.
Man has no pets. No dog, no cat, no bird. I’ve known people who kept snakes and spiders. Odd choices, but still, life.
Nothing. Not even an ant farm. Did he even have plants in the Oval when he was defiling it?
Nothing that suggests any connection to the greater web of life on this earth. I’m not saying he’s crazy, or that it indicates a deep moral failing, but I found that detail exceedingly odd.
Bupalos
@guachi: Not quite. You vot to bind delegates to a certain candidate, who you’re also empowering to release and direct those delegates.
correct that no party rules have been broken here, the “disenfranchised” argument which Is organic but which Russia will now try to turn up to 11, rests on a kind of selective sensitivity to democratic imperfections. Extra-electoral support is how the ballot is constructed in the first place. If people are going to say “give me a break” when we note that Biden retains his delegates and made a decision himself, we can say “give me a break” that all the other candidates this cycle except for true hopeless cases with no organic support were cut off by the will of donors and pols as well.
Subsole
@Chris: That’s a very good way of putting it.
KatKapCC
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I don’t understand this comment. ZG, not Quinerly, is the one who seems to have some animosity toward Harris.
I did not want Biden to drop out and I was enraged at how he was treated after the debate, which I agree was not his best day but was still 1000x better than the other guy. But what’s done is done, and to me, the most important issue is making sure we keep the White House, and that means throwing our all behind Harris. And I do not understand people allowing their justified anger over Biden’s treatment to blind them to the need to beat Trump. And of course people are allowed to feel however they feel, but certain people seem to be demanding that we all feel the way they do. I’m not going to tell someone to tattoo HARRIS 2024 on their chest or something, and they can stop yelling at us that she’s not the nominee yet.
Citizen Alan
@SatanicPanic: It is not fair to blame all Boomers and Gen Xers (like me) for the disasters that have befallen America under their/our watch. But GODDAMNED is it fair to blame a large chun of them/us. No offense to young(ish) parents, but I thank God every day that I never married and never had kids. Because I don’t think I could bear the thought of having brought children into the world knowing what an absolute wasteland they would be living in by the time their were 50.
KatKapCC
@Subsole: The only interaction I can imagine him having with animals is cheering on a dogfighting ring.
Greg
Forgive the sports metaphor, but I think it’s appropriate. The once-great fighter who thinks he’s got just one more in him. Your team knows you’ve lost it, everyone watching knows you’ve lost it, but you can’t see it. Those closest to you who benefit in status, or financially from you bring the exhortations – “You can do it champ,” or “You got one more in you,” or “They counted you out before.” But everyone truly knows how it will end. This situation would have got worse in the coming months culminating in a humiliating defeat in November, forcing us, much as we do the once-great boxer, to sadly look away as the vote tallies came in. Still much work to do, but this was sadly necessary.
Subsole
@Captain C:
I doubt it. High-powered Conservative women think that shit is for the plebs. They are powerful, connected. The elect.
It’s like that woman from Handmaid’s Tale suddenly realizing “Yes, honey. That world you built for everyone else is absolutely going to affect you too.”
Subsole
@grumbles:
Ugh. As if we haven’t suffered enough…
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
Here’s on old white male – on the same side as you.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@KatKapCC: Quinerly is running victory laps. ZG will probably get better and she has good reason to be distrustful of the Democrats.
Q is doing everything in his power to make it hard for people who are upset to get over this.
KatKapCC
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Agreed that that’s not a good look, either. But if one group is allowed to feel their feelings, I guess all have the same right, no?
Citizen Alan
@Soprano2:
I feel much better about things now that everyone seems to be coalescing around Kamala, who is, after all, the person who was always going to step into Biden’s shoes if Biden had to step down for a health reason NOT driven by media bullshit. If we’d gotten the brokered convention and some “billionaire’s choice” candidate, I would have probably stopped voting, because to me it would have proven conclusively that our democracy was already lost. Voting would just mean choosing between “the choice of the good oligarchs and the choice of the bad oligarchs,” and that IMO would not be worth the effort it would take to put a stamp on my mail-in ballot.
TooManyJens
@Citizen Alan: Every day I’m furious about the world my kid is entering into, and I don’t think that’s ever going to change.
Ruckus
@Citizen Alan:
I’m an old and what you just stated is something I’ve been hearing for most of the decades of my life.
It’s humanity. In all it’s glory and in all it’s shit. Do you really think it’s changed all that much? What it has done is gotten bigger and learned to communicate over a dramatically larger megaphone. Now of course I do not go back centuries but I do go back a few decades and have seen a lot of dramatic changes in humanity from when I was a child, seven of those decades ago. Take what we are doing now. This was really only even possible just over 20 yrs ago. Life on this planet has changed, and changed a lot. What I saw 7 decades ago was a different world in almost every way. What we are doing right now was not possible. Five decades ago I had just gotten out of the navy and many ships still had all their electronics using vacuum tubes. Do you even know what a vacuum tube is? And no I’m not kidding, many people have no real, actual idea what one is. The world has changed dramatically in my time. A lot of that change is in the background of our lives. Almost all of us carry our phone with us everywhere. 70 yrs ago many people didn’t have a landline phone in their homes. I haven’t had a landline phone in 20 yrs. And that level of difference applies to most of life today.
Citizen Alan
@Archon: TBF, I’m an ex-teacher and I can only name two Ed. Secretaries, Duncan and Betsy DeVoss. I don’t really think about the Secretary of Education unless s/he is blatantly on the side of destroying public education. Arne Duncan in that role burned at me.
Citizen Alan
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Oh is s/he? I have them pied so I don’t know/care. :)
dnfree
@Bupalos: When Biden, I think in the interview right after the debate, was asked if he had viewed the debate video, he said something like “No, I don’t think I did.” That was a strange response, because surely he would remember if he had viewed it? But not a strange response for someone having serious memory issues. That’s when I thought the debate wasn’t a one-off.
O. Felix Culpa
@KatKapCC: Sure, as long as you ignore John’s request to be kind. It’s gotta start somewhere, no?
Quinerly
@KatKapCC: I am not running victory laps. I am sad how this went down. But I defer to people like Schiff and Pelosi re how we got here.
I piped in this AM on that overnight thread….originally saying something about people being energized….that today is a reset. Not going to wade thru comments to figure out how it started. Whatever I initially said, seems to have triggered at least 2 people. In the beginning it seemed pretty tame compared to what has been said in threads last few weeks.
Related to this shitshow…I wish someone could tell me how BIDEN was going to overcome the narrative that was set and then confirmed by his piss poor, bumbling debate performance. Right now, we have no control over how the press covers these campaigns. Any answer about how the narrative could be changed and getting off the subject of Biden’s age and inability to articulate his message can not include anything about the press. No “if the press would do…..” no “why doesn’t the press…..”
I want to know what the Biden campaign could have done. They had 3 weeks. We seem to have a lot of “experts” here who think they know more than the people who do this stuff for a liviing…and have run and won successful campaigns. Do these no one but Biden folks truly believe the subject of age would have ever changed at some point? I have been saying for 2 weeks for me it wasn’t so much about his age….it was his inability to articulate a clear message. May or may not be age related. I just don’t see how the Dems/Biden could overcome that narrative.
Quinerly
@dnfree:
I thought that was a BIZARRE remark. I filed it away and factored it in how I came to my decision that he had to step aside.
Pittsburgh Mike
@Ivan X: Exactly. He couldn’t land a blow against Trump on *reproductive rights*.
Ruckus
@dnfree:
I don’t know that he would. He’s seen a lot of videos of himself and he’s likely a touch busy these days, so the reality is that likely for Joe, a lot of this political stuff is background noise. And I’m not saying that in any demeaning way. He has a lot of plates to juggle these days and I’d bet even thinking about a speech he has given is not high on his list. Now just to be fair, he is old (as I’ve stated here a tad older than me) so he likely does not juggle as well as he used to and has to prioritize his thoughts. I’d bet, as he’s done this a lot, prioritizing one speech, even one he gave very recently, has about zero placement in his mind. And does he memorize them or read them? If I was him it would not be memorize,
Quinerly
@Citizen Alan: I AM NOT running victory laps.
I feel energized. And, I expressed that feeling. I also feel like WE DEMS have a much needed reset. And I feel confident that Harris will be OUR nominee.
Subsole
@Martin:
“Good Lord, man! What have you been eating?!”
Quinerly
@Pittsburgh Mike: yep. I put that in my “file” of how I came to my decision that he had to step aside.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@KatKapCC: And I’m not saying he can’t. But I’ll still point out how I feel.
And around it goes…
SatanicPanic
@Citizen Alan: well, yeah, I do have a son and it’s kinda scary.
To answer Bupalos- I definitely have a lower carbon footprint. I often ride public transportation and I live in a condo, not a house. My state (CA) has grown renewable energy a ton. I don’t do nearly the international travel my parents did (who’s got the money? Not me!). But it really doesn’t matter, I’m just saying, kids today are rightly despondent about their future.
AnnaN
@Subsole: I believe he views his wives as pets. The offspring don’t count because all care, feeding, and attention are the bailiwick of the one who birthed them.
Chris Johnson
@Eunicecycle: Calling it. They’re going to get rid of Trump and try to run a Tucker Carlson/JD Vance ticket.
So they can have a laugh-off. Harris vs Carlson laugh-off.
Hell, I’d be laughing MY ass off :D
Subsole
@me:
That is a fair point. Sadly, I have no reason to doubt Vladimir “Drakulia” Thiel’s resolve.
Subsole
@Archon: Shit. You’ll be lucky if 80% know we have an Ed Sec.
Rugosa
@Chris: Upvote.
O. Felix Culpa
@Quinerly: Playing the tambourine and dancing when people are still grieving might not be the most sensitive or kind thing to do. This has been a rough three or four weeks for us all. Folks will get around to being enthusiastic for Kamala. Give them time. It’s barely been 24 hours.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Citizen Alan:
That pick, among others, telegraphed to me what the Obama presidency would be about. Duncan was a charter school/outsource grifting asshole.
Sure, DeVoss was more blatant about destroying public education which is what made a pick like Duncan in some ways worse.
Mo MacArbie
To me, zhena gogolia is merely observing that Harris’ candidacy has not yet come to pass. The delegates have not yet voted. The preliminary Ohio thingey has not yet preliminarily Ohio thingeyed. She’s saying don’t count your chickens before you’ve fucked them. There is still a possibility for further enemy action here.
O. Felix Culpa
@Mo MacArbie:
And zg would not be wrong. The “Replace Biden, but Not Like That” push is not over. See The Atlantic: Democrats Are Making a Huge Mistake: The error is not the choice of Kamala Harris. It is the sudden rallying behind her.
Expect more of this to come until (hopefully) she is nominated.
The article is paywalled, btw.
Quinerly
@O. Felix Culpa: look…I like you. I have met you. I respect you. Point me where I have played the tambourine since yesterday any more than a FPager has by posting a positive post. If saying things like “Harris can win,” “people are energized” and “time for a reset” are too triggering, then dare I say, these snowflakes need to stick to garden chats and pet threads. I guess I need to check if Kay and others who were smart enough to see the writing on the wall are dancing about.
I truly have tried to hold my temper while reading some of this bullshit that has been thrown around for 3 weeks…..the bullying, the pile on…..and I’m not like some of these now grieving snowflakes who were typing out “fuck you” with no self restraint to anyone who voiced concerns about Biden. Honestly, some of the Biden Cultists have been nothing more than classless bullies. As I said in a previous thread, I can thank the obnoxious, unhinged, and bullying behavior of 4-6 commenters who seemed to be on every thread I glanced at for literally tipping me to the “Biden must go” camp.
Barry
@thruppence: “Some folks say that they want a transparent democratic process. We had one. We voted for Biden/Harris. Now they want to toss that? For who? Why? I dread watching the news tonight.”
Don’t watch it. It will be a massive stew of the people against Biden attacking Kamala with whatever handful of sh*t they have at hand.
Quinerly
@O. Felix Culpa: and I’ll add…I am fucking relieved that I can quit holding my breath every time Biden speaks now. Not ageist. A realist. Been wanting to say that for 2 weeks but didn’t have the time to read a 200 comment vulgar pile on.
I actually have a tambourine and have played it. Busked in London and NOLA. I’ll play it for JoJo after every Harris speech.
Steve Crickmore
@Spc123: Agreed, on ‘my pro-Biden vote was stolen’ being disingenous when there was no real choice other than spoiling your ballot or checking off a nuisance candidate. This could have been handled much better, 15 months ago, in April, 2023 when Biden anounced his re-election, for a term beginning January 2025 and lasting to January 2029. He declared, ‘it’s time to finish the job, finish the job’, as if being President does not consist of thousands of individual tasks and pressures 24/7. As recently as December 2023, Biden said he would not likely be running if Trump were not. He no longer had the stamina and has complained about how gets tired for stretches during the day for some time. That is why someone retires. I have a feeling when we see Biden in a year or two, many of the commentators here who now feel so betrayed are going to be asking themselves what were we and Biden thinking?
Quinerly
@Steve Crickmore: I’ll be accused of having cognitive decline since I am repeating myself. The final several chapters to this mess haven’t been written. Less than 2 years is my bet.
O. Felix Culpa
@Quinerly: I feel the same about you. Unfortunately, the piling on and ugliness went both ways, so a lot of people are feeling raw right now. It’s fine to be happy about KH’s presumptive nomination. I’ll be really happy when it’s formally confirmed. But from a feelings perspective, starting the day with “Yippee Kamala” when many of us are still grieving Biden’s ouster (regardless of how valid the reasons may or may not have been) kinda hurt. Like salt in fresh wounds.
I appreciate that you feel abraded by some of the things said to you. As a person who wanted Biden to stay, I feel the same about some things that were said to me here. I was stunned and deeply unsettled by the viciousness. At some point, though, someone has to be the better person and be kind. That’s all. Scritches to Jojo.
Steve Crickmore
@Quinerly: I was afraid I was going to have watch a renactment of the closing scenes of El Cid. I would vote for a corpse over Trump, was the common refrain.
Quinerly
@O. Felix Culpa: thank you.
Tehanu
My feelings exactly, but as you say, beating the Convicted Felon is what matters.
WaterGirl
@Greg: There are plenty of us here who disagree with you. You say it with such certainty, but that doesn’t make it true.
Ruckus
Been gone all day so I’m going to chime in here.
If president Biden had decided to stay, I’d have voted for him.
If VP Harris is the candidate, I will vote for her. I did in the primary she ran in.
And yes I’m an old white man.
If Democrats hold a convention and nominate someone I think is unqualified just so KH is not the candidate I will be about as pissed off as I know how. And that is freaking pissed off.
This is supposed to be a country for all citizens, and all citizens who meet the requirements laid out in our laws are possible candidates. I’d be one of those people but you’d be idiots to vote for me and I would not accept the nomination in any event because I’ve never been in any public elected office and worked for 60+ yrs and my current concept of life is to lay around and do about as little as possible for as long as possible. I’m going for another 25 yrs at a full throttle fucking off. (That means I’m idling as slow as
it getspossible)Quinerly
@Greg: great analogy.