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You are here: Home / Open Threads / The Real Danger is Still Out There

The Real Danger is Still Out There

by | 282 Comments

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My Take

I was traveling from Friday to last night, and the only political media I saw was AOC’s post to Instagram, which was nearly an hour of her take on the whole Biden issue, which I think she posted late on Thursday.  I think that post is still relevant, because she made some points about what might happen if Biden dropped out that are important:

  1. Early voting in some states starts as early as sometime in September.  That’s 2 months away.
  2. No serious Democrat who hopes to be President someday will want to be the nominee of an open convention.  It’s political suicide because they’d be starting from zero 2 months from the start of early voting.  So an open convention will yield a mediocre candidate, at best.
  3. The Ohio issue means that Democratic delegates will be voting in a virtual convention the week after next, and there’s no way in hell we should trust a Republican official in Ohio to be fair to Democrats.
  4. Even if we believe that we can delay the delegate vote until the non-virtual convention, Michigan’s deadline to have a name for the ballot is the day after the convention, which means an open convention is a real risk since it could drag on past that date.
  5. The pundits, donors and Democrats influenced by them who are advocating for an open convention are not advocating for Kamala Harris — they want someone else.
  6.  Delegates are pledged to support Biden and are generally very loyal to him — and having them vote is inherently risky because they might be pissed.  (I don’t think this is happening.)
  7. Trump is beatable and the Democrats whispering that they’re prepared for a Trump win should STFU and resign.

So a big risk of Biden dropping out wasn’t Kamala Harris per se — it was the chaos that the chaos agents were generating in hopes of replacing Harris on the ticket.  I think the donors who gave her ~$90 million in the last 24 hours sent a hell of a message to anyone who thinks an open convention is still a possibility.  Still, there are senior Democrats who aren’t listening.

Among them are Obama, who did not endorse Harris and said “I have extraordinary confidence that the leaders of our party will be able to create a process from which an outstanding nominee emerges” in his written statement.  Media is interpreting that as a call for an open convention.  I’m not so sure, but I see little wisdom in dragging out his endorsement of the obvious nominee.  Schumer, Jeffries and Pelosi have not endorsed Harris, that I’ve seen.  Perhaps we can chalk that up to them checking in with the caucus.  Still, we don’t have the luxury of infinite time to dream up some Aaron Sorkin horseshit process.  We need to get all of our wood behind the Harris arrow.

To me, this is the real danger that is still lurking — the people and pundits who want to replace the person who was Biden’s clear choice for VP, someone whom every primary voter knew was his potential replacement, with an unknown and probably mediocre candidate.  If any of your Democratic members of Congress are waffling or silent on a Harris endorsement, I’d give them a call and give them a piece of your mind.

One final lesson from AOC’s video. She made a sharp distinction between pundits and whisperers who were advocating that Biden drop out, versus concerned Democratic voters who wanted Biden replaced.  She thought we should reserve our anger for the former, not the latter.  This is how I feel, too.  There are a number of fair-minded, long-time commenters who thought Biden should be replaced with Harris.  Those people took a lot of shit in the comments.  Well, here we are, and we need to get along, because we all want to win in November.  I’m pissed about the way the pundits and whisperers acted, and I’m keeping my list.  But we don’t have time to have a fight about this, or withdraw from working on the campaign.  There’s too little time and too much at stake to continue fighting about it.  Harris is our candidate now, and we need to support her full stop, especially since her candidacy is still in danger.

Update:  Pelosi just endorsed Harris.

Reader Interactions

282Comments

  2. 2.

    suzanne

    She made a sharp distinction between pundits and whisperers who were advocating that Biden drop out, versus concerned Democratic voters who wanted Biden replaced.  She thought we should reserve our anger for the former, not the latter.

    She’s smart. I’d suggest that she could be the VP pick, and my tongue would only be halfway in my cheek. I would enjoy the GOP explodey-heads.

  3. 3.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @suzanne: She’s not old enough to be President (yet).

    I saw a meme where Harris was making a call and saying something like “Is this the Midwestern White Man shop?  I need one.”  I assume that’s where she’s going…

  4. 4.

    guachi

    So a big risk of Biden dropping out wasn’t Kamala Harris per se — it was the chaos that the chaos agents were generating in hopes of replacing Harris on the ticket.

    Many people on the Biden Should Stay side were using this as an excuse why Biden shouldn’t drop out. I always thought it was bogus because if Biden endorsed Harris it would be Harris.

    I think that’s because the people who wanted Biden to say thought the movement to get Biden to drop out was only elite driven and, therefore, the elites would control things if Biden dropped out. But the movement to get Biden to drop was always driven by normal Democrats. It was just diffuse and not being listened to.

    As soon as Biden dropped out and that diffuse movement FINALLY felt like someone had listened to them the money came pouring in through the one mechanism to show it – Act Blue.

  8. 8.

    OId Man Shadow

    Well, here we are, and we need to get along, because we all want to win in November.

    This didn’t apply last month, of course.

  9. 9.

    Anoniminous

    @suzanne: ​
     
    AOC is too important in the House. She has a bright future as a strong and determined Dem leader. She would be wasted as VP.

  10. 10.

    wil

    If anyone wants to apologize for doubting me and calling me a troll when I said Biden needed to drop out, I’m open to your words and I will be gracious in acknowledging.

  12. 12.

    suzanne

    @guachi:

    But the movement to get Biden to drop was always driven by normal Democrats. It was just diffuse and not being listened to. 

    Agree. There has been a lot of asserting that various parts of the coalition were united in support of Biden, but data showed that there was significant loss of support in every category. There is a narrative of betrayal that has taken shape, but the data doesn’t back it up at this point. The loss of support seems to be widespread.

  13. 13.

    SomeRandomGuy

    One final lesson from AOC’s video. She made a sharp distinction between pundits and whisperers who were advocating that Biden drop out, versus concerned Democratic voters who wanted Biden replaced. She thought we should reserve our anger for the former, not the latter. This is how I feel, too. There are a number of fair-minded, long-time commenters who thought Biden should be replaced with Harris. Those people took a lot of shit in the comments. Well, here we are, and we need to get along, because we all want to win in November.

    “SUCK IT LOSER!”

    Yeah, I GET it. SUCK IT LOSER. Fine.

  16. 16.

    trollhattan

    @Anoniminous: Agreed. She’ll have Her Time. This is not that.

    What has occurred during this cycle is AOC breaking out of her previous more limited cohort to become spokesperson for the party as a whole. Great to see.

  17. 17.

    OId Man Shadow

    I think that’s because the people who wanted Biden to say thought the movement to get Biden to drop out was only elite driven and, therefore, the elites would control things if Biden dropped out. But the movement to get Biden to drop was always driven by normal Democrats.

    I thought I was pretty clear from day one that I thought sitting around slagging our own candidate and repeating the media and GOP narrative about him instead of fighting and rallying and working twice as hard was only hurting us and our chances to win. Lo and behold as the self-manufactured crisis went on, the polls started to collapse.

    Of course, we’re here now and now I’m getting the same message of “unity” and “fight” that I was giving from the same folks who told me to go fuck off. Who said irony was dead.

    Anyway, of course I’m voting for Harris. She was my pick in 2020.

    Her madly trying to salvage shit from everyone’s fuck up in four months (and doing it after the leaders and the base and the media talked her boss into immolating himself “for the good of the party”) just isn’t the fucking way I wanted it to fucking happen.

  18. 18.

    Old School

    @wil:

    If anyone wants to apologize for doubting me and calling me a troll when I said Biden needed to drop out, I’m open to your words and I will be gracious in acknowledging.

    I never called you a troll, but I’m still going to wait until I see how November’s election works out before I call anyone “right.”

  20. 20.

    suzanne

    @Anoniminous: I think she has a fantastic future ahead of her and will be an asset wherever she decides to serve.

    Mr. Suzanne thinks VP will be Mark Kelly. I probably prefer Mayor Pete, but that’s because I think he’s great and fresh and we need that vibe. I don’t know if I have an opinion about who is best strategically.

  22. 22.

    Anoniminous

    If the AA turnout for Harris matches their 2012 turnout for Obama she should take Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Georgia and that’s the election.

  25. 25.

    OId Man Shadow

    @wil: You can’t see it, but I’m making my people’s traditional apology gesture… with both hands.

  26. 26.

    Ishiyama

    Back in ’68, which I remember, Bobby Kennedy was going to win the nomination; it was his assassination that threw the choice to the Party insiders. This time, the cause may be different, but the insiders’ insidious influence can still result in chaos. If the nominee is not decided on the first ballot, the Super Delegates, like Obama, can vote. That must be avoided, Harris must get the votes on the first ballot, or we will wind up f-cked over beyond belief.

  27. 27.

    MomSense

    I think you are getting tripped up on the definition of open convention.  That does not mean contested convention.  Rankin explained it well on NPR this morning.  The delegates are pledged to Biden.  He releases them and then they can vote.  This is the open part. There is no other way to do this.  Then the super delegates weigh in and they are coming forward now to state their support for Harris and will probably continue to do so every day until the convention.

    There is no alternative to an open convention but there doesn’t seem to be any angling for a contested convention.

  28. 28.

    SatanicPanic

    LOL, fuck this guy
    Mike Bloomberg, the former New York mayor and a top Democratic Party donor, urged Democrats on Monday not to rush the process to replace President Biden as their Democratic nominee.

    In doing so, Bloomberg declined to immediately back Vice President Harris, whom Biden endorsed to succeed him after he dropped his reelection bid Sunday.

  29. 29.

    B1naryS3rf

    This is really not difficult. Obama and other grandees aren’t endorsing yet because they want to be seen as unifying figures and know good and goddamn well the base and Biden and the vast majority of the elected reps are going to support Harris anyway. And they quickly are. There is no hidden agenda here. No one should interpret what Obama said as asking for an open chaotic convention that descends into factionalism. If they do, that tells on themselves.

    Don’t adopt “Blue MAGA” conspiratorial characteristics folks. It’s not a good look. We can be every bit as aggressive and tough as needed without having the abyss stare into us.

  30. 30.

    Ohio Mom

    Thanks mister mix for laying out all the important points so clearly. I’ll be cutting and pasting your list to share with a few people in my real life.

  31. 31.

    Villago Delenda Est

    The grassroots support for Harris is, as Darth Vader might well say, “most impressive.”  The chaos agents, led by the despicable Dean Phillips, can go pound sand.  And the MAGAts are in utter chaos right now.  They can’t handle this, they counted on Biden being the nominee and they cannot very well retool for Harris without coming across as racist sexist assholes, which of course is their natural state.

  34. 34.

    wil

    @Old School: you don’t have to say I was right. But two weeks ago the guardians of free speech at this insular, inward-looking site full of self-important blowhards were so against even the idea of Biden dropping out that they stamped and stomped out any dissenting views and wore out the word ‘troll’ and then banned me.

    And now here we are.  I’ll probably get banned again but I don’t plan to be a permanent commenter here.  Now the prosecutor can finally take the fight to the convicted felon in a way that President Biden just seemed unable to do.

  35. 35.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @guachi:

    I think that’s because the people who wanted Biden to say thought the movement to get Biden to drop out was only elite driven and, therefore, the elites would control things if Biden dropped out. But the movement to get Biden to drop was always driven by normal Democrats. It was just diffuse and not being listened to.

    I think it was both normal Dems and pundits, and the pundits were the ones spinning the nonsense yarns about open conventions.  Big donors were definitely influencing Dems and a lot of them did not want Harris as a replacement.  AOC made it clear that the conversations she was in were not Harris v Biden, it was Open Convention v Biden.  I think she’s an honest broker.

  36. 36.

    OId Man Shadow

    @MomSense: There is no alternative to an open convention but there doesn’t seem to be any angling for a contested convention.

    We’ll see.

  37. 37.

    West of the Cascades

    @MomSense: This distinction is really helpful (I was tending to equate the two terms and reflexively be horrified at the idea).

  41. 41.

    Delk

    On the brighter side, after Kamela wins Joe can spend his remaining time in office trying out those immunity powers.

  42. 42.

    Gregory

    I read elsewhere that Obama, Pelosi, etc. keeping their powder dry on endorsing Kamala Harris is about not wanting a perception that “the DLC” hand-picked Biden’s successor.  No, that perception would not be based in fact, a the OP makes clear, and no, not every such criticism would be made in good faith.

  43. 43.

    BR

    Now that Pelosi has endorsed Harris, I think it’s basically done. My guess is Pelosi wanted to be one of the last to do so because if she came out first then it wouldn’t seem like there was organic party support.

  47. 47.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @MomSense:

    There is no alternative to an open convention but there doesn’t seem to be any angling for a contested convention.

    Yes, this is the distinction, appreciate it.

  48. 48.

    B1naryS3rf

    @wil: I went through a few tastes of what you’re describing. I don’t care. We can all snipe at each other all we want after Trump loses and goes to prison. I’ll even volunteer to be virtually dunked if it makes anyone’s ego stroked.

  49. 49.

    guachi

    Pelosi has endorsed Harris.

    “Politically, make no mistake: Kamala Harris as a woman in politics is brilliantly astute – and I have full confidence that she will lead us to victory in November.”

  50. 50.

    Martin

    The concerns about an open convention are pretty overblown. Democrats need to walk a difficult line between consolidating around a candidate and coronation. In the same way that the 2024 primaries were a nominally democratic process that had a predetermined results, Democrats are seeking to do the same thing here – something where Harris is the certain winner, but which looks democratic (even if it’s not).

    Party leaders have surely heard the cries of voters that are upset about their primary vote being dismissed and are trying to respond to that. It’s all for show, but their instincts are good here.

  51. 51.

    SatanicPanic

    Donated to Harris. That felt good.

    Confession- I had paused donating to Biden because I wanted him to drop out. Glad to be back in the game.

  52. 52.

    West of the Cascades

    Pelosi Statement on Vice President Kamala Harris posted on X:

    “America has been truly blessed by the wisdom and leadership of President Joe Biden. With love and gratitude, I salute President Biden for always believing in the possibilities of America and giving people the opportunity to reach their fulfillment. As one of our country’s most consequential presidents, President Biden has been not only on the right side of history, but on the right side of the future.

    “Today, it is with immense pride and limitless optimism for our country’s future that I endorse Vice President Kamala Harris for President of the United States. My enthusiastic support for Kamala Harris for President is official, personal and political.

    “Officially, I have seen Kamala Harris’s strength and courage as a champion for working families, notably fighting for a woman’s right to choose. Personally, I have known Kamala Harris for decades as rooted in strong values, faith and a commitment to public service. Politically, make no mistake: Kamala Harris as a woman in politics is brilliantly astute – and I have full confidence that she will lead us to victory in November.

    “In the Democratic Party, our diversity is our strength and our unity is our power. Now, we must unify and charge forward to resoundingly defeat Donald Trump and enthusiastically elect Kamala Harris as the next President of the United States. Onward to victory!”

    https://www.streetinsider.com/Politics/Nancy+Pelosi+Endorses+Kamala+Harris+for+President/23488009.html

  53. 53.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @wil: Accepting the fact that Biden has dropped out does not mean accepting that such a move was necessary or even advisable.  As a result, you aren’t likely to get many takers for your “gracious” offer.

  54. 54.

    jimmiraybob

    No more time for dithering.  Maybe the Harris 2024 campaign could “leak” a “Kamala once yelled at a puppy” story in order to peal off some of the  softer Kristi Noem MAGA voters.

  55. 55.

    bbleh

    @MomSense: this is correct.  There is no nominee at present (thus all the Republican whining about campaign funds and spending and so on is just … the usual Republican whining because they don’t have any actual argument), and delegates pledged to Joe either vote for him or for Someone Else if he releases them.  He doesn’t otherwise “control” them, which means he can at most endorse Harris.  Presuming (safely I think) that he does indeed release them, the convention then is “open” by definition.

    And as to Obama and Pelosi “calling for” an “open convention,” I think the point (as was attributed to Pelosi specifically) is to avoid the appearance that the “party bosses” are “selecting” the nominee rather than the convention doing so.  That is, it’s to maintain form.  They, like Joe, can ENDORSE Harris, and I expect they will in fairly short order.  (I’d guess they’re still working behind the scenes to make sure everyone else follows suit.)  We need to have a little patience.  Joe just dropped out YESTERDAY ffs.

    Now, as observed, early voting starts in TWO MONTHS.  I would suggest we all stop having anxiety attacks and put down the circular-firing-squad weaponry and GET TO WORK!!

  56. 56.

    Old School

    @wil:

    But two weeks ago the guardians of free speech at this insular, inward-looking site full of self-important blowhards were so against even the idea of Biden dropping out that they stamped and stomped out any dissenting views and wore out the word ‘troll’ and then banned me.

    I’ve no clue why you were banned, but I’m fairly confident it wasn’t to stomp out dissenting views.

  57. 57.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @MomSense: I’m sorry – if you were planning a surprise contested convention, would you announce it? People have a right to be nervous, just like you did. A bunch of shadowy figures said a lot of nasty shit, people started to panic, and, something really horrible happened, and you wanted that something horrible to happen, and *now* you’re saying “soothe soothe” which, if you have any pride, will embarrass you a bit.

  59. 59.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    Those people took a lot of shit in the comments.

    I haven’t been doing that in the comments as far as I know. But I will admit to a lot of screaming “Fuck you!” out loud while reading.

    Why? Fear. Absolutely convinced that if Biden stepped down, the resulting chaos would result in TFG waltzing to victory. Calls for Biden to drop out filled me with panic.

    Well, fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.

    Something about how it was handled yesterday and continues to evolve has been very calming, encouraging optimism and confidence rather than fear and panic.

    5. The pundits, donors and Democrats influenced by them who are advocating for an open convention are not advocating for Kamala Harris — they want someone else.

    Yeah, I’ll keep screaming my “Fuck you!”s at those people. Also the pundits saying Biden should resign the Presidency as well. But it’s time for solidarity among actual voters. I’m now looking for how best to be actively involved. A friend of mine is involved with and suggesting to me this group.

  60. 60.

    Martin

    @Ishiyama: Given that entire state delegations are pledging to her, I think that’s pretty safe at this point that this will go smoothly.

  61. 61.

    Darkrose

    @schrodingers_cat: Schiff has endorsed Harris, but I absolutely will not forgive this. I will write in Lee or Porter and work to make Schiff a one-term senator. I’ve long thought my fellow Stanford EAST House alum Ted Lieu would be a great pick for CA’s first Chinese-American senator.

  62. 62.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Per many in some of yesterday’s threads, term-limited Connor in NC.

    Big Gretch and AOC are extremely gifted pols, I think most people would agree we’d like to see them thrive in the future.

    But as everybody here knows, we’re dealing with an electorate that barely elected a black *man*, then we saw the misogynist shitshow that was Clinton’s treatment in 2016.  Now leading the ticket is a black woman and the innate resistance in an electorate to that double-whammy, while unfortunate, is no different a dragging issue on the campaign than Biden’s age.  We can debate (or not) how significant in comparison those might be but to ignore that would be no different than the “good people” here telling us we were delusional about minimizing (or mitigating) the Biden’s age as a massive factor in the election.

    Hence, putting two women on the ticket might appeal to the “RWNJ’s Collective Head Explosion” joy but isn’t likely a smart *electoral* approach.

    Anecdotal but of course the Horseshoe Left is already making up excuses for not voting for Harris.  I also dip my toe into the Embarrassed Republican type, they typically vote glibertarian because while Never Trumpers, they have never voted for a Dem.  In those cases, they definitely held their nose voting for Biden, again because he was male and white.  Now, they’re making up the usual excuses to not vote for Harris, particularly if she selects another “full blown progressive” (ignoring the fact that Biden was the most full grown progressive president we’ve had since FDR but never mind their own cognitive dissonance) as a running mate.

    Hell, it probably doesn’t matter in the long run.  Thank goodness we have money and expertise to GOTV, assuming the base of the *Dem* party isn’t so pissed off by what happened that they tell the party to take a hike.

  63. 63.

    Belafon

    Pieing someone because I’m tired of this track now.

    Also, there’s a new bsky account highlighting Project 2025. I can’t link to it from work, but it would most definitely make a good front page. I realize that’s more Anne’s thing, but picking a bunch of good ones would be a great way to get back after the Republican party.

  64. 64.

    guachi

    In addition to the Pelosi endorsement, Act Blue has had its biggest week of fundraising this year passing the previous record at about 12:30 Eastern Time. We still have 5.5 days left to go.

    The all-time record is $220 million and I think that will be easily broken.

  65. 65.

    different-church-lady

    Well shit, now what am I going to do with all these “Pelosi wants to get rid of the whole ticket” hot takes?

  66. 66.

    B1naryS3rf

    @Anoniminous:

    If the AA turnout for Harris matches their 2012 turnout for Obama she should take Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Georgia and that’s the election.

    That’d be awesome, but Obama is a once in a generation political talent. We have to maximize interest and turnout wide scope, obviously, and not hope for lightning to strike twice. Especially now that the Confederate Party are further along than ever when it comes to voter suppression and disenfranchisement.

    But as everybody here knows, we’re dealing with an electorate that barely elected a black *man*,

    52.9% to 45.7%, or 365 vs 173 is a landslide. Give our country some credit. Even 2012 was no squeaker.

  67. 67.

    Frank Wilhoit

    @zhena gogolia: Whoever-it-is would be drawing from the same pool, and the pool is none too full.  Two whole generations of potential Party leadership ran away for fear of the Reagan juggernaut.  That is one more item on the long list of things that too many people are in denial about.

  68. 68.

    terry chay

    @OId Man Shadow: Amen. Harris was my choice in 2020 until she dropped out (voted for Warren in the CA primary, I seem to remember the split ticket caused Bernie to win. wow seems like forever ago right?).

    My reason for being for Biden is incumbency is a very strong advantage that was sacrificed here for uncertainty and risk of a divided convention and shitshow that isn’t off the table. That hasn’t changed  even though I’m more hopeful and love to be proven wrong.

    I donated 100x my previous largest single donation to her campaign last night because I want to minimize the chance that my fear happens. It’s probably the best bag for the buck we’ll ever have to fight fascism in our lives. No brainer.

    Im sorry, I’m not abiding people who are gloating. I didn’t have time for this infighting before Biden dropped out and I don’t want it after. Making good the enemy of “perfect” is why I can’t stand about my party.

  69. 69.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @SatanicPanic: Bloomberg’s cops arrested my daughter and a couple of thousand other protestors in 2004 before they could actually start protesting, then kept them in jail without charges, lawyers, medical attention or any kind of due process until the RNC convention was over. During the intervening days, Bloomberg’s cops threw every court order on the floor and laughed in the faces of the attorneys.

    Bloomberg does not rank high in my “defenders of democracy” list.

  70. 70.

    different-church-lady

    Full endorsement of entire top post. Sanity appears to be prevailing.

  71. 71.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @guachi:

    Thank you Nancy Smash.  She’s no tepid politician the way Obama was/is.  As I said a couple of times yesterday:

    He was an unquestionably and uniquely talented politician, for sure. But in the end, it was mobilized for so little. The most gifted politician in decades and a tepid politics so unsuited to that gift.

    Thus, his public statements thus far are very on-brand for him.  As somebody else said yesterday, it’s classic overthinking Obama behavior.

  72. 72.

    Martin

    @Darkrose: I don’t understand why Schiff is being singled out like this. He wasn’t remotely the first Senator to call for Biden to drop.

  74. 74.

    Jay

    @wil: If you were banned, you wouldn’t be here.

    if you were banned under a different nym, then you will be quickly banned again.

    Getting a “time out” is like being sent to the corner in pre-school for misbehaving in class.

  76. 76.

    different-church-lady

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    Fear. Absolutely convinced that if Biden stepped down, the resulting chaos would result in TFG waltzing to victory. Calls for Biden to drop out filled me with panic.

    I felt the same way, and it’s what conventional wisdom would indicate.

    I will be very very glad to have been wrong.

  77. 77.

    cmorenc

    My transition from stick with Biden to Harris back when the majority of this blog was still all-in on riding with Biden was fueled by the near-unanimous visceral take of normies (non-political junkies) in my personal circles that they recognized in Biden’s debate stumbles older once-sharp people they knew who were starting to show an uncomfortable amount of “senior” moments.  Perhaps all it really was that night was a still-sharp guy struggling with an unfortunately timed bad cold – perhaps normies were conditioned to see it as doddering old man by media like FTNYT and CNN but nonetheless it stuck and was killing Biden’s viability in ways difficult to reverse.

    Couple that with the undeniable fact that this is an existential election where it’s not just the looming strong possibility of the malevolently horrible person of floutingly felonious Donald Trump regaining the Presidency, but the likelihood the hard-right will use him winning to burn every progressive accomplishment going back to FDR’s New Deal to the ground and salt the earth with the help of a hard-tight SCOTUS.

    The thing most voters not already firmly in the MAGA bag yearned strongly for was someone younger, someone not Biden and not Trump, even voters who would have voted for Biden reluctantly as the only alternative to Trump.

    Frankly, the odds of riding with Biden did not look good, for all his positive accomplishments – there was no viable alternative than the risk of Harris being better than the odds of Biden somehow pulling it off.

  78. 78.

    trollhattan

    @SatanicPanic: Not to rush?

    Lemme check, we’ve got, like, a hundred weeks until the election so, take is nice and slow.

    Wait, I’m being told that there has been a slight confusion in the units used for the previous calculation. Please now to be setting hair on fire and proceeding.

  79. 79.

    Freemark

    @guachi: I did it as a ‘fuck you’ to those who advocated for replacing Biden. Because the ones who started that absolutely don’t want Harris. You take on it is pretty idiotic.

  80. 80.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    We’re still in a crisis, a lot of us are still in shock that the Trumpists and their allies were able to whip up a firestorm that genuinely threatened not just Joe Biden, but all of America, and an occasional intemperate word can be forgiven.

    Constant, incessant shoveling of crap through a turboshaft engine to spray all over damned near every discussion for a solid month is another matter. You get what you give.

  82. 82.

    eldorado

    AOC is too important in the House. She has a bright future as a strong and determined Dem leader. She would be wasted as VP

    Love AOC and have from the start but she’s a bad pick for VP. Her politics and style should be something people affirmatively vote for. I would support a Presidential run unconditionally. Let her convince the country to move towards her

    (eta: markdown format)

  84. 84.

    EarthWindFire

    @OId Man Shadow:

    Anyway, of course I’m voting for Harris. She was my pick in 2020.

    Her madly trying to salvage shit from everyone’s fuck up in four months (and doing it after the leaders and the base and the media talked her boss into immolating himself “for the good of the party”) just isn’t the fucking way I wanted it to fucking happen.

    Thank you!!! JFC, there is no one in this country I admire more than your average black woman. Always cleaning up after our dumb asses. And now Dems expect it again. Hope enough of the rest of the country plays along.

  85. 85.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @cmorenc:

    My transition from stick with Biden to Harris back when the majority of this blog was still all-in on riding with Biden was fueled by the near-unanimous visceral take of normies (non-political junkies) in my personal circles that they recognized in Biden’s debate stumbles older once-sharp people they knew who were starting to show an uncomfortable amount of “senior” moments.

    My wife, a normie, was relieved to hear Biden had stepped down. She, along with some other family members and friends, were disappointed to hear that Biden was running again, though they’re long-time Democratic voters.

    Other family members are upset that Biden stepped down.

    So it’s definitely a mixed bag in my circle of friends and family.  I sure wasn’t 100% certain that Biden should stay, but on the balance I thought him staying was the better choice.   But I’m happy with the way that things have turned out so far, because we’re avoiding chaos.

  86. 86.

    Anoniminous

    @B1naryS3rf:

    I base my projection on the Ever-abiding Truth of ethnic politics.  Example, if you want to elect a candidate in a Polish district run someone named Kowalski.

  87. 87.

    Ken

    @Delk:  On the brighter side, after Kamela wins Joe can spend his remaining time in office trying out those immunity powers.

    PICARD: What did you do to them, Q?

    Q: Nothing bizarre, nothing… grotesque.

    — ST:TNG, “Deja Q”

  88. 88.

    SatanicPanic

    @cmorenc: My view on Biden’s public appearances is definitely colored by my own (ongoing) experience with my father’s dementia. Maybe I’m just seeing it in every old person now that I’ve seen it in him. Or maybe I’m seeing something that’s real. Maybe he’s just physically declined and that’s all that’s going on. I don’t know. But some of his episodes have been really unnerving. People can say I’m wrong but I did come by my opinion honestly.

  90. 90.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @Martin:

    I don’t understand why Schiff is being singled out like this. He wasn’t remotely the first Senator to call for Biden to drop.

    I was annoyed with him because he hinted around for a couple of weeks before just coming out and saying it. That said, as AOC pointed out in her video, she wasn’t pissed at the Democrats who declared publicly that Biden should quit.  Her ire was aimed at the cowards (her word) who texted every reporter in town saying Biden should quit, but wouldn’t go on the record.   I think that’s a fair way of looking at it.

  92. 92.

    Jackie

    And yet ANOTHER reason to vote AGAINST TCFG:

    “Robert F. Kennedy Jr. held talks this month with former president Donald Trump about endorsing his campaign and taking a job in a second Trump administration, overseeing a portfolio of health and medical issues,” the Washington Post reports.

    “The discussions, which began hours after the attempted assassination of Trump at a rally on July 13, did not result in an agreement amid concerns in Trump’s orbit about the complications about promising a job in exchange for a political endorsement.”

  94. 94.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @wil: Okay. You joined in a pile-on, and Biden left. Congratulations, you won the fight, wrong or right, you got your way.

    I’m sorry – did you really think this was a good choice, following by a calm, rational decision making process, in which shrill illogic counted didn’t count as much much as careful reasoning? No, AOC can say “SUCK IT LOSER!” to me, but folks like you can’t. I had a basis for my position, far better than irrational hate.

    Any of you other fuckers want to pretend you were good and wise, when you sounded like dysfunctional siblings? You weren’t good, nor wise, but you WON. And that means it’s time for you fuckers to be gracious, because you all told *US* that the ONLY thing you cared about was winning.

    WELL, NOW (you, for want of a weaker word, “think”) WE’LL WIN.

    You got what you wanted right? So, you’re so happy that we’re forced to go along with you, you bring out the coffee and cakes, or, we know you really were just a screaming dysfunctional.

    WE ARE WINNING. IT’S ALL YOU CARED ABOUT.

    So why aren’t you happy? So gloriously happy that we’re winning, which was all you ever wanted, right? You don’t get an ass-kiss from me unless your donkey’s got better reasoning than you do.

    Now, you all who are going to be around to see this fucking election, I hope you have a total fucking party.

  95. 95.

    Kay

    Pelosi endorsed. You were wrong about her. Too. Face saving is fine but understand when you-all threatened yesterday to keep lists of people you no longer trust that works both ways. I myself will be putting less stock in the opinions and analysis of people who were wrong.

    I had a  fight on here with someone who insisted the debate was fine and towards the end I find out the person did not watch it. He/she is yelling at me to deny what I saw with my own eyes when they didn’t know themselves because they didn’t watch it. That’s an echo chamber.

  96. 96.

    Ohio Mom

    I don’t have a single qualm about supporting Harris. I’m still unnerved by the chain of events though.

    I feel a bit baited and switched, even if I was baited and switched to the best outcome. Oh well. I’ll get over it.

  97. 97.

    Harrison Wesley

    There will absolutely not be a Harris-Trump debate.  He’d get on a stage with her without one of his lawyers between them (and I don’t think, for all their advocacy, that Fox “moderators” could really help him)? He’d throw in the diaper within minutes, if he didn’t collapse in a cloud of flatulence first.

    Now, a VP debate between Jes’ Downhome Vance and the candidate-to-be-named later, that could be a real thing.  To celebrate his claimed ancestral roots, it could be done on pay-per-view WWE style: three falls, 15-minute time limit, in the steel cage.  Proceeds donated to the LWV.

  98. 98.

    Captain C

    @Delk:

    On the brighter side, after Kamela wins Joe can spend his remaining time in office trying out those immunity powers.

    I’m not saying he should send the Shitty Six to Gitmo to be held as enemy combatants.  I’m not.  But I would totally understand if he did.

  99. 99.

    Kay

    Also AOC should apologize for making up that stuff about the ballot. Next time I wish she would release a transcript so I don’t have to waste time with all the handwaving and fluff. She’s not reliable to me now.

  100. 100.

    B1naryS3rf

    @Anoniminous: I think you may be assuming African Americans vote more monolithically than they do. It would take a lot to get anywhere near Obama’s numbers, and the doubts about Harris are a bit more entrenched in the AA community (“Copmala” is not something only Russian trolls push and her mixed marriage also catches flak) than they ever were about Obama.

  102. 102.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @Kay:

    Pelosi endorsed. You were wrong about her. Too. Face saving is fine but understand when you-all threatened yesterday to keep lists of people you no longer trust that works both ways. I myself will be putting less stock in the opinions and analysis of people who were wrong.

    I was never more happy to be wrong than when I saw her endorsement.

  103. 103.

    Kay

    I’m so glad Whitmer is a co chair for Harris campaign. They’re going to be dynamite out together. We need Michigan back.

  104. 104.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Kay: Yours is one of the voices I prize most highly on this blog, and I’ve been very anxious reading your reporting on the erosion of grass roots support. I took your reporting absolutely bloody seriously and it scared the shit out of me, because I didn’t see a way out of it. I figured we had to be all in for Joe in order to win.

    I’m still not sure this was the only or best path forward. But it is a path forward, it’s the new reality, and the Dem leadership, including and especially Joe Biden himself, is playing it just right in my opinion, playing it to create excitement.

    As for the debate, we watched it but had to turn it off after half an hour. But my take on it was “he had a bad night, he’s allowed to. The next one will go better.” I was absolutely enraged at people screaming for him to step down in the first half hour of the first debate. Humans are allowed to have bad nights.

    But I think you and others saw something more than somebody just having a bad night. I don’t know if you were right or not. But it doesn’t matter. I am absolutely 100% committed to Kamala with no reservations, and I hope the rest of our party is as well.

  105. 105.

    Fair Economist

    @$8 blue check mistermix:

    AOC made it clear that the conversations she was in were not Harris v Biden, it was Open Convention v Biden. I think she’s an honest broker.

    I haven’t heard the megadonors and cyptobros who drove the Dump Biden movement come out for Harris. AOC was right, they didn’t want her. Biden and Harris managed to time this to get a huge swell of support for her and effectively shut out any chance of the contested convention the cryptobros were lusting for. I suspect it was planned in advance – Biden can walk and chew gum at the same time; he was likely both wrangling support to stay on and encouraging support for Harris in the event he couldn’t. I note he withdrew on a Sunday, once the politics shows were over, so few were paying attention to the media until the next day.

  107. 107.

    zhena gogolia

    @oldgold: We’ll see.

    But I’m not giving peace a chance. I’m not forgiving people for the treatment of Joe Biden.

  108. 108.

    Kay

    @$8 blue check mistermix:

    It’s not personal to me. I’m not defending her honor. I just don’t understand how she went from someone we all think is a great strategist and the ultimate Party Person to believing she was engineering a racist coup. That’s fucking bizarre.

  109. 109.

    Mr. Longform

    I’ve been reading without commenting for weeks.  Like many folks, I felt ambivalence.  My instincts leaned me toward Biden staying in – instincts and admiration for what he has been able to accomplish despite the fact that he was plenty old when all this started in 2021.  But I understood the potential advantage of him stepping aside, but if and only if he 1) did it under his own volition;  2) endorsed Harris immediately; and (the unknown/trickiest part of the deal) 3) most prominent democrats, especially her potential rivals, pretty quickly backed that program.  I was frankly amazed that it happened that way.  So even though this was my second preference, I am pretty delighted with it; and I’ll be thrilled to be proven wrong all along and that it should have been my first prefedrence.

  110. 110.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Kay: I had a  fight on here with someone who insisted the debate was fine and towards the end I find out the person did not watch it. He/she is yelling at me to deny what I saw with my own eyes when they didn’t know themselves because they didn’t watch it. That’s an echo chamber.

    Excuse me, you *are* the one who quotes just-so stories, that involve a fiction writer, right?

    I won’t deny what you say, but I’ll say right flat out: I don’t believe it. I think you’re making up stories, to make it seem, as if you were heroic, not hysterical.

    No, you’re not right, but you got the one and only thing you ever wanted, so, now, you’re HAPPY right? We have to go along with you, no matter what, and it proves that… you either forced out the best President in the past 75 years or so, or, caused a massive change in a political campaign, that validated all of the complaints made by the opposition, thereby strengthening those complaints.

  111. 111.

    Bill Arnold

    @guachi:

    But the movement to get Biden to drop was always driven by normal Democrats. It was just diffuse and not being listened to.

    No, it was not. It was mostly driven by the weapons platform of the oligarchs (the media), and by donors, delivering a ruthless squeeze.
    I’m still waiting for a criticism from you of Donald J. Trump, the elderly racist narcissistic convicted white-collar felon, who has not yet been tried for nation-security-related indictments, and is clearly undergoing a cognitive decline due to some sort of progressive dementia.

  112. 112.

    Martin

    @Ohio Mom: You should feel baited and switched. But a lot of us who weren’t certain on Biden, who thought his suggestion in 2020 that he’d be a one-term president and then help the next generation of Dems take over, only for that to not happen apparently because Biden felt he was solely qualified to beat Trump, without kicking that question to voters, feel similarly.

    This has been a clusterfuck from the get-go and it’s going to continue to be through the convention because the DNC dug this hole. That’s the lesson we should be learning here, but it’s not really taking yet.

    And of course, nobody knows how this will play out. All we’ve done is create a new counterfactual that we can’t prove or disprove. But that’s how elections just are. All you can do is play the odds.

  113. 113.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Kay: You don’t understand “before” and “after”, do you?

    Nancy Pelosi didn’t try to stab Biden in the back, BEFORE he stepped down. She then did what any party leader had to do, swiftly, AFTER he stepped down. BEFORE, AFTER. I’m sure Youtube has some good Sesame Street skits on the concept.

    No one was roasting Nancy Pelosi based on evidence. Maybe that’s what confuses you. TFG didn’t like evidence either. That’s one reason he disgusts me so much.

  114. 114.

    Llelldorin

    @$8 blue check mistermix:

    My personal guess is that they anticipated a current Republican talking point — that the replacement of Biden with Harris was orchestrated by {people Republicans hate — e.g. Obama, Pelosi}. By having them endorse very late in the process, it makes it much harder for them to sell the press on the idea that this is all part of the Machiavellian scheming of The Hated Ones.

  115. 115.

    oldgold

    @SomeRandomGuy: Kay has been a beacon of reason grounded in hard truths for the past several weeks. Rather than attacking her, we should be thanking her for sharing her insights with us and displaying courage in dealing with the Amen Chorus.

  117. 117.

    Kay

    They have a “Swifties for Harris” group on IG and it looks fun

    I don’t have politics on my IG but I may make an exception. We deserve some fun.

  118. 118.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @Kay:

    Also AOC should apologize for making up that stuff about the ballot. Next time I wish she would release a transcript so I don’t have to waste time with all the handwaving and fluff. She’s not reliable to me now.

    I’ve watched a couple of her other Instagram live discussions.  They’re similarly unstructured and aimed at her Instagram audience, which is there for the deep cuts.

    Jaime Harrison clearly thinks that the Ohio ballot issue is real, too.   She wasn’t out on a limb by any means, and I don’t think that responsible party leadership should take ballot access for granted.

    I don’t think this was a no-brainer political decision, and how it will shake out is still up in the air.  Whether that is more faulty judgment on my part remains to be seen.

  119. 119.

    No One of Consequence

    Fuck you Nancy. Fuck you too Adam. And fuck you as well Hakeem. Ambulatory shit sacks, the lot. Your loyalties shall be long remembered, and richly rewarded. Couldn’t give a flaming damn whatever dribbles out of your goddamn pie holes henceforth. Hustle off to irrelevancy, Fuckers.
    -NOoC

  122. 122.

    Captain C

    @Mr. Longform:

     3) most prominent democrats, especially her potential rivals, pretty quickly backed that program.

    I suspect that was a nonnegotiable condition of him agreeing to step down.

  123. 123.

    Kay

    I don’t care about pop music though and the Swifties might sniff that out if I try to join their little cult.

    But it’s good for Harris.

  124. 124.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Martin: You should feel baited and switched. But a lot of us who weren’t certain on Biden, who thought his suggestion in 2020 that he’d be a one-term president

    Biden never suggested he’d be a one-term President. There was some talk about that, and, of course, some concern. When you’re that old, each age is not just a new number.

    But seriously, you think he could have won if he said he’d have to make it through 8 years, given how quickly his campaign was destroyed by enemy action after he’s already had a successful term?

    No, he didn’t swear he’d make it through 8 years, but, roughly two years in, he announced he was running again.

    Don’t let any liar push the lie that “he only SAID he’d be one term.” He was too honest to swear he had 8 yeas in him, and now, people want to pretend he broke his word. BULLSHIT. He waited for the advice of friends, family, and health care providers.

    I know, I know, then how did he have a bad *TWENTY MINUTES* during the debate with all that screening?  I don’t know. But, I bet, if I thought *really* hard, I bet I could come up with explanations *other* than validating the entire pack of lies told to us by Republicans.

    Anyway: no, Biden *never* suggested he’d be a one term President. People around him may well have, but we’ve already learned how vicious ageism is, so the losers who said he was a one term President were probably just ageist assholes, who insisted that no, they didn’t view “old gramps” as *OLD*.

  125. 125.

    Martin

    @Kay: Making what stuff up? She was warning that many people weren’t willing to back Harris, and I think that was and remains true. But enough people who do back Harris (like all of the Biden supporters who didn’t want this to happen) flooded the zone, got her back, and have changed the conditions on the ground.

  126. 126.

    Kay

    If I were running the convention I would have Obama endorse there. Delegates and political media would love that.

  128. 128.

    Cacti

    The born between 1940 and 1959 cohort at BJ is handling their loss with all of the grace and class for which said group is typically known.

    Have a good cry. Get it all out. And get behind VP Harris.

    There is one thing only that matters in this election. Defeating Trump.  No matter how much you wish it was so, after Biden’s debate performance, he wasn’t going to make that happen.

    “We owe it to Joe to stand by him as his campaign sinks” was misguided at best and destructive at worst.  And the further his numbers sank, the more loopy and conspiratorial the rationales became.

  132. 132.

    Kay

    @Martin:

    The stuff about how even the lawyers in the room couldn’t tell her how ANY of this would work, meaning the mechanics of switching the nominee

    Ypu saw it yesterday. Was it a legal process fraught with uncertainty ? No.

    She knows damn well he isn’t the nominee until he’s nominated. She wanted to pump in some smoke around it so she could weave in how the elites were running things –  leveraging creating a lack of trust in the Party for her own brand. It’s a little skeevy.
    It also kind of sucks how she announced all her colleagues were only talking about donors while she focuses on The People. Ugh.

  134. 134.

    Starfish

    @Kay: Absolutely.

    This really NEEDS to not feel like a coronation of Harris because the media will just be “I am so bored, that Trump dude looks totally normal over there” because they are a bunch of nepobaby toddlers who inherited their jobs from their parents or other connections.

    John Scalzi put up his thoughts as a news consumer, and you read point two and tell me that this doesn’t smell like the work of Olenna Tyrell Nancy Pelosi.

  135. 135.

    Cacti

    I’ll also add that I find it more than a little funny how Biden has turned into a christ figure in the BJ comment section, considering how lukewarm people here felt towards him at the start of the 2020 primaries.

  136. 136.

    Kay

    Johnson is lying about ballot lines.

    If you see it, don’t spread it around. He’s lying.

    We had one of the best election lawyers in the country on this yesterday. The moron from Louisiana is just making stuff up.

  137. 137.

    eclare

    @Kay:

    Since Vance made that disgusting “childless cat lady” remark, and Swift is literally a childless cat lady, I expect her to endorse Harris at some point.  Subtly, like with Harris cookies, like she did for 2020 with Biden, but endorse.

  138. 138.

    Kay

    Manu Raja at least asked “what laws” but Johnson said “laws in states” and they gave up!

    laws in states. Those laws.

  140. 140.

    Kay

    @eclare:

    The young’s seem enthused but they have such poor turnout they’re almost not worth chasing

    An exception is MI. They have a “center” at MSU that studies youth vote and they have been able to get youth turnout way up

    We desperately need it in MI, so that’s a little luck.

  141. 141.

    KatKapCC

    @Kay: Someone should ask the supposed Christian why he’s so comfortable with bearing false witness.

  142. 142.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @oldgold: No.

    Moment I see a rational argument from her, I’ll engage if I desire.

    I haven’t seen one yet. I’m sorry – the worst person in this world is not the person who calls you an asshole and punches you in the face. The worst person in the world is the person who lies because they haven’t even thought all the facts yet, so ten people call you an asshole, and punch you in the face.

    Now, maybe there’ll be a DNC, and maybe they’ll nominate Jane Unbeatable, and maybe they’ll win, but you know how you’ll convince me something is *true*? By providing evidence. By finding the flaws in my own arguments (most such are due to my language processing ).

    I do know one thing about Kay: Kay engaged in a communication and engagement strategy determined to prove to all people who doubted that Biden must go, but never got past the emotional reaction to “Kay wants to shitcan Biden”.

    Well, replacement seems to be the right option, right? When you’re in a hole and can’t get out, there’s no other option to change people’s minds, is there? Nothing else can work.

    I kid, of course, we don’t replace PEOPLE, just… you know, Joe Biden, he’s old, he doesn’t count as a *person*, right?

    Anyway: if Kay isn’t stone cold stupid, I’ll notice. If Kay is a decent person, I might notice that.  I don’t need anyone to stand up for another. I don’t have time enough to form grudges, not even that weird polynomial guy.

  143. 143.

    different-church-lady

    Well, it’s pretty clear that calls for temperance, pragmatism and unity are going to go unheeded.

  144. 144.

    Spanish Moss

    I am surprised by how many people seem so certain that they understand what happened behind the scenes. We really don’t know. Nor do we know the details of the health issues that Joe is facing. I just got Covid for the second time, and I can see how that alone might make Joe reconsider his future. Ugh, I am still fighting the fatigue…

    You know what I would love? A thread specifically for people who want to talk about their excitement about Kamala. We have plenty of other threads for people to work out their grief and share theories on what happened. I am not too interested in that speculation because I don’t think it is informed by enough facts for my taste. As a woman who loved Joe but was ambivalent about his chances this time around, I want to look at the glass half full. We will likely have a woman at the top of the ticket again!

  146. 146.

    different-church-lady

    @SomeRandomGuy: ​

    I bet, if I thought *really* hard, I bet I could come up with explanations *other* than validating the entire pack of lies told to us by Republicans.

    It wasn’t even that hard, really.

  147. 147.

    OId Man Shadow

    @oldgold: Oh my god… you have our votes already, but we also have to be happy about shiving the president, apologize to you all, and kiss your asses to be in good standing?

    Jesus…

  150. 150.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @oldgold: Kay is riding high from the thrill of being “right” and still obsessively trying to convince us Biden is too old when it doesn’t matter any more and she KNOWS she is running salt into wounds.

  151. 151.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @$8 blue check mistermix: The Ohio Ballot issue is unbelievably real. Republicans can, and will, sue to keep the Democratic Party nominee off the ballot.

    It doesn’t matter if it *succeeds*. It *probably* won’t. But we all know, from Trump’s own lips, the Republican Party doesn’t think they need *votes*. They have their legal battle gamed out.

    Now, can all the boxes be checked, to eliminate the obvious worries about ballot access? Yes, that was the whole point of the virtual roll call, which Ohio Republicans would surely assure us isn’t needed. Nothing more should be needed – but it’s a real issue, that can’t be ignored. Republicans will do anything to so confusion or fire off litigation, on every weakness, because they couldn’t win with their candidate before, and they probably can’t win now.

  152. 152.

    Tractarian

    Harris is our candidate now, and we need to support her full stop, especially since her candidacy is still in danger.

    You mean her candidacy for the nomination? You think it is in danger because Joe Manchin and Mike Bloomberg won’t endorse, and Obama is doing his usual above-the-fray schtick?

    No. If she is still alive at the time of the convention, she will 100% be the nominee. I know we’re all conditioned to expect the worst, but what more evidence of party unity do people need to see? Take the W!

  153. 153.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @OId Man Shadow: I think Kay and oldgold are prepping us for the inevitable campaign against Kamala and making sure none of the wounds are healed by then.

    Trump/Kay 2024!

  154. 154.

    Cacti

    @OId Man Shadow: Joe Biden was the one true Dem savior.  Those who betrayed him should roast in the pits of hell for eternity while demons take turns stabbing them in the hiney with a pitchfork.

    There.

    Feel better now?

  155. 155.

    Martin

    @SomeRandomGuy: What are you talking about – he admitted this was his intention in an interview last week:

    President Joe Biden on Tuesday said while he ran as a “transitional candidate” in the 2020 presidential race, the current political climate prompted his decision to run for reelection.

    Can we please stop retconning this stuff to protect people’s feelings. We’re all adults here. We can hold the thought that Biden has been a historically great president at the same time as he isn’t perfect and had some responsibility for the spot that we find ourselves.

    If we can’t honestly evaluate this situation and insist on blaming the whole fucking thing on the NYT, we’re never going to learn from it and demand that the party make the necessary changes.

  157. 157.

    Kay

    Vance is saying she’s a childless miserable cat lady, but Harris exudes happiness. She’s just not miserable.

    They are having trouble caricaturing her – good.

  160. 160.

    Tractarian

    @Cacti:

    “We owe it to Joe to stand by him as his campaign sinks” was misguided at best and destructive at worst.  And the further his numbers sank, the more loopy and conspiratorial the rationales became.

    There were commenters on here saying that “B$G M$NEY DON0RZ” were orchestrating Biden’s removal and would also ensure Harris’s removal, because they (the big money donors to Democratic campaigns!) want Democrats to lose.

    That was wrong.

  161. 161.

    Kay

    @Cacti:

    Harris doesn’t  want to preside over the Netanyahu diatribe and political media are asking : “oh? Is he unpopular?”

  166. 166.

    SatanicPanic

    @Kay: I thought Harris had kids. Turns out they’re stepchildren. Does JD Vance think that women have to birth children to be valuable in peoples’ lives?

    Nevermind, I think I know the answer

     

    EDIT- also JD Vance: “The idea of selecting the Democrat party’s nominee, because George Soros and Barack Obama and a couple of elite Democrats got in the smoke-filled room and decided to throw Joe Biden overboard, that is not how it works.”

    LOL OK buddy

  167. 167.

    BR

    @Kay: ​
    Also:

    As vice president, Harris privately expressed that the Biden administration needed to take a stronger stance against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as the civilian death toll mounted in Israel’s war against Hamas.

    Publicly, Harris emerged as one of the earliest high-profile leaders in the administration to call for an immediate temporary cease-fire in March. She delivered the sharpest rebuke against Israel’s handling of aid flows into the Gaza Strip at the time by a senior leader and described the conflict as a “humanitarian catastrophe” for innocent civilians.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/21/kamala-harris-foreign-policy-00170143

    It’s the narrative anyway. I don’t trust politico, but it could help in MI.

  171. 171.

    Jeffro

    hmmmm…upstairs thread got closed.  Is that a BJ first?

    folks clearly need time to process, which is fine.  I’m just psyched to get on with beating the GOP instead of each other.  So…LET’S GO BLUE!!

  173. 173.

    Cacti

    @Kay: Outstanding. Glad we won’t have to endure the spectacle of our ticket topper being dog-walked by that odious war criminal.

  174. 174.

    Kay

    @BR:

    my youngest son was involved with the encampments at school in MI and that was my impression talking to him and his roommate and gf – they saw Harris as more sympathetic to Palestinians. I don’t know about Arab Americans in MI though.

  176. 176.

    Bill Arnold

    @oldgold:

    we should be thanking her for sharing her insights with us and displaying courage in dealing with the Amen Chorus.

    Trump has not yet lost. The dice were rolled by the dump-Biden camp, on all our behalf.

  180. 180.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @guachi:

    Many people on the Biden Should Stay side were using this as an excuse why Biden shouldn’t drop out. I always thought it was bogus because if Biden endorsed Harris it would be Harris.

    That’s a straw man version of a real argument. No one thought that ballot access was an insurmountable burden – they just knew it would be difficult and contested.

    If it had been as easy as “dump Biden, and everything works well,” it wouldn’t have been such a nasty decision, but, hey, you won the fight. How long do you think before House Republicans try to impeach Harris for hiding Biden’s decline from the American public? Remember: I don’t have to face that question, but if it happens, chow down with gusto.

  181. 181.

    rikyrah

    Terry Lee Watkins Jr. 王瑞民 (@TerryWatkinsJr1) posted at 11:33 AM on Mon, Jul 22, 2024:
    Did you know Kamala Harris NEVER extended prisoners sentences for cheap slave labor? And incarceration declined under her tenure.

    A white low level lawyer TRIED to stay a court order and was STOPPED by a federal judge and Harris once informed immediately dropped his case. https://t.co/grCjvHKllv
    (https://x.com/TerryWatkinsJr1/status/1815425003447566492?t=7jkJYRnlKvf2vm2HECmW1Q&s=03)

  182. 182.

    Jinchi

    @SomeRandomGuy: ​
     The Ohio Ballot issue is unbelievably real. Republicans can, and will, sue to keep the Democratic Party nominee off the ballot.

    This seems like an awesome campaign issue. Nothing is better at proving you’re fighting for democracy than having an opponent literally try to strip a major party candidate for president off the ballot.

  185. 185.

    Kay

    @SatanicPanic:

    There are SO MANY step parents

    I hope he tells them all they’re not real parents.
    God, she should do like a step parent round table – they’re completely ignored!

  186. 186.

    Spanish Moss

    @Jeffro: It’s happened before. I won’t mention what it was about, because I don’t want to bring that topic up again. It unfolded in a similar way. Multiple posts with lots of emotion and personal accusations in the comments, followed by a somewhat incendiary post that set the whole discussion ablaze.

  187. 187.

    Gretchen

    @Martin: Kay insists that there’s no problem with ballot access in Ohio and anyone who says there may be, is lying. Jaime Harrison disagrees and I  think he’s smart not to trust that Republican officials  will treat Democrats fairly in an ambiguous situation.

  188. 188.

    different-church-lady

    @Spanish Moss: ​And it’s so predictable that the moment someone says, “Let’s not do that again” some people become utterly insistent on doing it again.

  189. 189.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    They should hire me to defend her on truancy. She’s right. I hope she defends it. They actually DO need to be in school.

  190. 190.

    schrodingers_cat

    @rikyrah: It was not good enough for many progressives even though he delivered on their policy goals. From withdrawing from Afghanistan to student loan debt, to infrastructure spending with thinnest of majorities.

    Why should anyone believe anything that they say. Nothing he did was good enough for them.

    They are the ones in the comment section gloating with the I told you sos.

  191. 191.

    SatanicPanic

    I’m hoping they come out with some good TShirts. I know it’s only been a day so I can understand why the store’s not fully stocked up with cool stuff yet. I’m not usually a political TShirt guy but I’ll make an exception for Future President Harris.

  193. 193.

    Jeffro

    @Tractarian: ah

    hopefully things will cool down in a couple days!  we’re all on the same team here.

    have a good one folks and see you later in the week.  =)

  196. 196.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Darkrose:

    I will write in Lee or Porter and work to make Schiff a one-term senator

    You do you, but I personally don’t want to risk the slightest chance for Garvey to win. We need to hold the Senate now.

    There will be plenty of time after the election to ensure Schiff gets primaried out in 2030. Eyes on the prize.

  197. 197.

    stinger

    The thread above was a great idea, TaMara. But assholes gotta asshole. And then they waaahhh about being “banned”. Thanks for trying.

  198. 198.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Tamara, thank you for the post that is now closed.  It’s a shame what happened to it.  I did not need it, but I respect that many do, and it was thoughtful of you to try.

  199. 199.

    Kay

    My normie husband passed by Vance’s speech and said “oof. He’s bombing” and walked off

    yup

  200. 200.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Cacti: You poor, pitiful fool.  Have you actually tried engaging, rather than prejudging? I don’t care – you’re not worth my time if you think talking about people’s precious fee fees is going to direct me.

    I won’t just call someone a bigot – I’ll explain their bigotry to them. I won’t call someone stupid, unless I’m deconstructing stupidity.

    I have no fucking idea what sex most of you are – I keep trying to keep me from calling Kay “she” because
    a) I don’t know, and
    b) due to my CFS, it’s extremely easy to misgender someone.

    So I try to avoid gendered pronouns, unless I have to, because I can get the wrong.  And I don’t care what sex, or gender, an idiot is, if I’m deconstructing the idiocy of their arguments.

    Look: there may have been a good argument for shitcanning Biden, but ain’t no one here was qualified to make it. More importantly, there were a bunch of idiots who thought they *were* qualified to make it, when they weren’t. And that *really* pisses me off, when it’s something like age bigotry.

    I’m actually quite a pleasant person. But, hey, I learned a long time ago, no one will *ever* spare my feelings. So why bother to spare anyone else’s, GIVEN HOW MUCH EFFORT IT TAKES?

    So, y’all don’t have to spare my feelings. I won’t spare yours, unless I think you’re being human, and not a butthead. How’s that sound? If you’re human, I try. If you’re a butthead, I’ll avoid making the spanking joke, which should be more than sufficient.

  204. 204.

    azlib

    I was in the Biden camp since forever and the gross unfairness of the elite media towards him is pretty unforgivable. As many media analysts observed, the media drove the meme of Biden being too old. I also think getting Biden to drop out was a play by the megadonors who have little real political experience. Between the dominant media meme and donations drying up, I think Biden had little choice, but to drop out. It is totally unfair and pretty reprehensible given Biden’s accomplishments.

    At the same time I was quite comfortable with Harris as the nominee, if Biden dropped out. I think she is smart and talented and the advantage of her candidacy is it throws the whole Republican strategy into disarray. My fear was a contested convention which would continue the chaos and doom defeating Trump. Fortunately, that does not appear to be happening.

  208. 208.

    Cacti

    @SomeRandomGuy: If it had been as easy as “dump Biden, and everything works well,” it wouldn’t have been such a nasty decision

    It really was that easy. It was the dead enders accusing everyone else of bad faith, Russian psyops, elite Bilderberg conspiracies from the shadows, and whatever else might pop up in someone’s fevered imagination that day.

    The primary obstacle to Biden stepping down was his vanity, and it looked like he was prepared to Ruth Bader Ginsberg our chance to hold the White House.

  210. 210.

    rikyrah

    Chris D. Jackson (@ChrisDJackson) posted at 1:42 PM on Mon, Jul 22, 2024:
     BREAKING: French President Marcon Pens Heartfelt Letter to President Biden
    Mr. President,

    It is with great emotion that I learned of your decision to withdraw from the race for the 2024 presidential elections. Please believe that I understand the gravity of this moment for you, your loved ones, and the entire American people, as well as the courage, sense of responsibility, and sense of duty that led you to this decision.

    In these exceptional circumstances, I wanted to assure you once again of my friendship and thank you for the unwavering commitment you have always shown to strengthening Franco-American relations. Our respective State visits will remain in this regard important milestones, which testify to the historic and unbreakable friendship between France and the United States.

    I also wanted to express France’s gratitude for the exemplary way in which you have led the Atlantic Alliance when it was facing one of the most serious crises in its history. The Washington Summit was in this respect a unique opportunity to reaffirm the importance of the Alliance’s unity in the face of Russian aggression.

    As we have just celebrated together the 80th anniversary of the D-Day landings, I hope that this spirit of partnership between the two sides of the Atlantic continues to inspire the historic relations between our two countries.

    Please accept, Mr. President, the expression of my highest consideration.

    With one friendship from Brigitte and me to fill and you,

    Emmanuel Macron
    https://t.co/62fvsuBcWb
    (https://x.com/ChrisDJackson/status/1815457471177109706?t=lvV0-5r8LGJwY4kz1IPpbQ&s=03)

  212. 212.

    hueyplong

    @PJ: Let’s not underestimate the tendency of dicks to be dicks when they don’t get their way, as well.

  214. 214.

    TooTallTom

    Not sure if the VP pick really helps to “deliver” a state in the Electoral College anymore.  If Harris believes that this is true, then Gov. Evers (WI), Gov. Whitmer (MI), Gov. Shapiro (PA) are easy choices.  All have Lieutenant Governors that are (D).

  215. 215.

    different-church-lady

    Ah. So I see that some of the commenters have decided they get to determine what the blog policy is, instead of the front-pagers.

  218. 218.

    Martin

    @Gretchen: The chair of the DNC convention has noted that the law in Ohio doesn’t go into effect until Aug 31, after the deadline, and that she doesn’t trust the GOP to not take the opportunity to fuck over Democrats. Given that they purged a few hundred thousand voters on Saturday that have until end of the day today to get registered, I think her concern is valid

    She’s the one in charge of the convention. It doesn’t matter if she’s wrong, it’s her call, and she’s going to make it.

  222. 222.

    Kay

    @Gretchen:

    They had to call a special session to get Republicans to do the tiny bit of work it took to pass the first law. They’re in disarray over a huge corruption scandal. They aren’t going to change the law.
    I wasn’t referring to the Ohio ballot law as where AOC misled people. I was referring to her deliberate attempt to portray replacing Biden prior to him being nominated as legally complex and difficult and fraught with problems.

    Thats just not true. How do you know? You saw it yesterday. I don’t like her hand waving to create uncertainty about clear cut issues. It’s manipulative. She did nothing to make that situation better – she made it worse. Deliberately. To promote her brand

    I have no problem with ambitious people. I am one. But I don’t like to be jerked around.

  226. 226.

    Louie Foster

    @wil:

     

    @OId Man Shadow: Old Man, I couldn’t have possibly said it better!  And I know there are a lot of us.  But here we are.  Those bragging because they got what they wanted have the advantage.  In the off chance that Trump wins, telling them “I told you so” will be no solace for anyone.

  228. 228.

    Martin

    @TooTallTom: I don’t think so. I think that died when Gore couldn’t carry Tennessee. Politics just doesn’t work like that any longer.

  229. 229.

    different-church-lady

    @Louie Foster: Holy christ, I’m pissed as hell at these assholes, but I’m also desperately hoping they get to take victory laps in November.

  230. 230.

    mrstealyourcostcosample

    i ooped.

    Kamala has 1000+ and needs like 1,900.  The phrasing had me confused, but she has the majority of a majority, so like 25%+ looking to get to 50%.

  232. 232.

    Horatius

    @wil: There is that “grace” in action. Is it any wonder you get pied? If  you need any more help nailing yourself to that cross, I’m happy to help.

  233. 233.

    Kay

    @zhena gogolia:

    You should tell people to shut up like you told me yesterday.

    If you guys want a private salon that includes only your the members of your clique, why don’t you start your own blog? You can ban discussion of anything controversial or upsetting, which includes just about all news.

  235. 235.

    different-church-lady

    @wil:

    I don’t plan to be a permanent commenter here.

    The news just keeps getting better and better!

  237. 237.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Martin: Remember how Joseph Wilson said that the forms used as evidence were wrong? The names were wrong, the dates were wrong?

    Although widely quoted, HE NEVER SAID IT. Lots of people quoted him as saying something similar. Congressional investigators claimed he lied, when, in fact, the original Washington Post story merely quoted someone, claiming to quote Joseph Wilson.(This was from the yellowcake bullshit story W pushed.)

    I’m not retconning – I follow certain news quite carefuly. Want the timeline for mask recommendations, and how the CDC (and Fauci) followed that timeline precisely?

    I followed Biden’s first campaign, and, yes, I heard “transitional” but there was no pledge not to run for reelection, and, if it had been, he’s been running for two years, so, you know, the one thing that is not retconning is, “he decided to run again”. That’s the one fact we know.

    IF the big deal were “he promised a single term!” your time to raise that objection was before he started campaigning. If you did, well, we do live in a democracy.

    Still: I’m game. Find me a quote that says he pledged only one term, no matter how he felt come 2018 or so. I’ll admit, I didn’t see it before now.

  238. 238.

    ArchTeryx

    Going to save my primary comment for whatever new thread comes to take the place of the closed one, but in summary:

    All I care about is beating the shit out of the fascists that call themselves TCFG’s party. They want me, and everyone like me, dead, and are so incredibly bold as to put out a 900 page document stating just that.

    I thought Biden would give us our best chance simply because he is the incumbent and so is TCFG, and the press would eat newcomer Kamala Harris alive, just as they did to Hillary Clinton. You do not know how much I’d love to be proven wrong about that.

    I truly am agnostic about who wears the title of President as long as it isn’t a fascist. My life and the lives of tens of millions of other people depend on it. The last time they came within a single Senate vote of a backstage pogrom against the poor and disabled. Now they’re loud and proud about it. All the argument about process and all the “falling in love” people screaming and bullying everyone else are just moot to me. I don’t want to go down shooting in a hot civil war or kill myself to avoid being shipped to a camp and tortured to death. Is that too much to ask of this fucking country?

  239. 239.

    different-church-lady

    @ArchTeryx:

    and the press would eat Kamala Harris alive

    They are still going to try.

    If we don’t smarten up, they’ll succeed.

  240. 240.

    Martin

    @Kay: There’s a real legal issue of transferring the Biden/Harris campaign warchest to anyone other than Harris. Her warning that the folks pushing Biden out didn’t necessarily have Harris’s back aren’t bullshit – more than one of the big Dem billionaires publicly rejected Harris as not being moderate enough. Vinod Khosla last week said he didn’t want Harris for that reason and today was on TV talking about how he has her back. Harris consolidated support quickly enough to cut off his desire for an open convention (and had the funds to back a moderate challenger). Had the nominee not been Harris, the party probably could have transferred that war chest, but there’s a decent chance it would have been tied up in court and unusable. Given the last few months of court rulings, I think Democrats aren’t unreasonable to distrust the courts giving them any latitude at all.

    So yesterday was easy because it was Harris. If it was anyone else, it’d be substantially harder, and nobody was certain Harris would consolidate support that quickly. Thankfully the necessary people stepped up.

  242. 242.

    thruppence

    My what an acrimonious bunch we are today. The MAGA horde has clearly stated that they want to destroy American democracy. They are the enemy to be fought. You don’t like the cologne of the fighter in the foxhole next to you? Get over it. This is not personal. This is world historically urgent. Act like it.

  243. 243.

    Kay

    Republicans are using a photo of Harris in an evening dress to attack her but she looks gorgeous.
    ABL says it’s the hyper sexualization of black women, a racist trope, and I believe that, but she also just looks gorgeous. They’re just going to have to get better at this.

  244. 244.

    different-church-lady

    @thruppence: I guess we’re going to have to settle for about 90% concurrence on that and go Illegitimi non carborundum on the rest.

  248. 248.

    different-church-lady

    @Raven: ​I suspect the comment is tongue-in-cheek, based on a squabble that happened a day or two ago.

  249. 249.

    Kay

    @Martin:

    I like her Martin but I just take her with a grain of salt. It seemed pretty clear to me that she and Bernie climbed on the Biden train to get their “first hundred days” agenda out.
    I have no problem with strategists but the wide eyed “this is about the people” stuff gets on my nerves.

    AOC doesn’t need big donors because she’s in a bright blue district. Harris does need them. We’ve spent a hundred million on ads and we’re back five. Kamala needs her own war chest. She’s gonna have to claw back every inch we lost from January to June.

  250. 250.

    rikyrah

    Elie Mystal
    @ElieNYC
    One reason why Trumpworld has been caught so wrongfooted here is that they really didn’t think Biden would drop out. The very idea of putting something above personal self-aggrandizement is so foreign to them, that they honestly had no contingency for it happening.
    2:20 PM · Jul 22, 2024
    https://x.com/ElieNYC/status/1815466924966568279

  256. 256.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @rikyrah: I don’t know who Elie Mystal is, but that’s the kind of link that shows “remember, we’re fucking their shit up because we’re the good guys, and they don’t even know what to *expect* anymore!”

  257. 257.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    I got over my initial shock at Biden’s debate performance. His physical decline since 2020 had been obvious for a while (neuropathy started effecting his walk, etc), but he had clearly been mentally sharp, except for the first 20+ minutes of the debate. It freaked me out at first, but I set that aside. I get having a bad night. It can happen to anyone. He has been a fantastic president. I’d like to believe he could continue to be one, but it wasn’t meant to be. I don’t have the emotional energy to feel angry at the people who convinced him to step down. I’d rather spend it on the people who wrote more articles about his age than his accomplishments.. on the people who are absolutely going to continuously criticize the most ridiculous minutiae of Harris’s personality quirks instead informing the public of her accomplishments and experience. I still think the entire US based political press (especially the pundits) could be replaced with interns, and it would be an enormous improvement. Harris has my full support.

  258. 258.

    Kay

    @Martin:

    it was bizarre anyway, their agenda.We were gonna forgive medical debt? That’s private debt held between two parties. We can’t “forgive” it. It isn’t ours.

    Tgats actually when I really started to worry. I thought “fuck, they are in real trouble if they’re this desperate that they’ve adopted Bernie Sanders wish list”

  259. 259.

    different-church-lady

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: ​I don’t feel angry at the people who convinced him to step down.
    I feel enraged at the people who shanked him in the public eye.​

    I still think the entire US based political press (especially the pundits) could be replaced with interns overripe melons, and it would be an enormous improvement.

  261. 261.

    oldgold

    @rikyrah:  Vance: “Not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America.”

     

    Has this miscreant ever heard of George Washington?

  262. 262.

    Martin

    @SomeRandomGuy:

    “When I originally ran, you may remember, Ed, I said I was gonna be a transitional candidate, and I thought that I’d be able to move from this, just pass it on to someone else,” Biden said. “But I didn’t anticipate things getting so, so, so divided.”

    That was from the BET interview last week. You may not think Biden signaled to us that he intended to serve only one term, but Biden thinks he did. He’s expressing this as an article of fact.

    I said above Biden didn’t promise, but we did trust him to express good judgement and do what was best for the country. But appreciate that requires substituting his judgement for the rest of ours. And if we are uncomfortable trusting Pelosi or Obama or the rest of the Democratic establishment’s judgement on this matter, why would we trust Joe’s any more? Isn’t the whole goddamn point of this democracy thing that it’s OUR judgement, collectively which matters. And that’s the thing that didn’t happen, and that’s why we’re getting all of this drama?

  263. 263.

    rikyrah

    @SomeRandomGuy:

    I don’t know who Elie Mystal is, but that’s the kind of link that shows “

     

    I call him the Political  Frederick Douglass on tv. You can’t miss his hair..he’s on MSNBC as a legal commentator.

  264. 264.

    Martin

    @Kay: Of course we can forgive it. It’s a long used mechanism.

    Hospitals overcharge patients knowing that many won’t be able to pay and relying on the fraction that can pay will cover the cost of the whole lot. It’s like reverse insurance. The debt of the people who couldn’t pay then get sold, not at face value but at a fraction of that amount – usually less than 10% – because at this point the hospital will take anything over nothing, and it costs money to continue to try and collect.

    So you buy this discounted debt and retire it. You can usually do so for 1% of the face value of the debt at scale. It’s such a good deal that municipalities are starting to buy up the debt for their citizens and retire it because 1% is below the tax rate, so there’s a good chance that expense will pay for itself in increased tax receipts.

    That’s what’s being proposed here. Before you invest too heavily in AOC not knowing something, take the time to research the idea and understand it.

  265. 265.

    Chris Johnson

    @Citizen Alan: Just because somebody took one side of an issue that multiple people had multiple sides of, and the side prevails, doesn’t make them not a troll.

    He’s not a troll because his actions and words are conciliatory and in no way just trying to stir up further shit.

    Oh wait. Sorry, no, it’s the other thing.

    Wil dude, I left you unpied because you were too obvious. I was 100% fighting the Biden side until the moment he chose otherwise, and I respect his decision and am wholeheartedly running with Joe’s alternate plan here, which seems very impressively well thought out, I might add.

    You’re STILL being a dick, and I don’t respect you the tiniest bit more, because I don’t see it as taking your side. ‘cos I see your side as ‘manufacturing fights between Dems’, and I was only pieing people who could well have been sincere. You can STFU.

  267. 267.

    Ishiyama

    @oldgold:

    @rikyrah:  Vance: “Not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America.”

    Has this miscreant ever heard of George Washington?

     

    You win the internet today.

  268. 268.

    Subsole

    @different-church-lady:

    “Nature is healing…”

    (Sigh.)

    We ought to make a designated thunderdome thread for some people to just indulge their onanistic brain-peen measuring and leave the rest of us to work in peace.

     

    Again, people. The enemy is over there. Under the swastika-and-cross banner*. Not yo your left, or right. Over. There.

     

     

    *”We got both kinds! Crooked and straight!”

  269. 269.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Martin:

    I agree, I can’t be too rude to anyone who is merely saying “Biden did sound like he might be one-and-done.” I get that. I don’t think it stood up very well, as an excuse,but I’ll grant you. Just as I can hold on to “he never SPECIFICALLY said”, you can hold on to “WTF does transition mean?” Would you agree that he wanted the listener to make of it what would make him most electible, and be done with it?

    Seriously: that was politeness, not a hint of irony.

    That said:  there’s a legal concept of timing, where you can sue up to the day of the election (for example), but not afterward. It’s not that you can’t file any suit or motion, it’s just, most of them become automatically foreclosed once the election is run. The courts aren’t there so you get another bite at the election apple.

    If Biden had made a pledge to be “transitional,” and you weren’t going to let him out of it, the time to bring that “suit” is during the primaries. Once the primaries are done, that sort of action is supposed to be foreclosed for the same reason.

    Now, either you trust Biden, or you don’t.

    I trusted him. As the victim of huge numbers of neurological issues, I know very well what it would take for *me* to promise to bake you a Betty Crocker, so I trusted *him* to tell me he was okay to run.

    Anyone who wanted him removed, from the night of the debate, clearly didn’t trust him *at all*. Now, I was specific there, right? That night, if you’re all “OMG WE ARE DOOMED!” then you didn’t trust that you’d have heard if there was something important. And hey, gimps ain’t nothing if they’re not lying to you right?

    As a gimp, I’m allowed to make a bitter closing statement like that. Because no one believes *me*, either.

  270. 270.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @rikyrah: I call him the Political Frederick Douglass on tv. You can’t miss his hair..he’s on MSNBC as a legal commentator.

    He.

    First time I confused gender, it was “Jules Verne”. I was told “oh, everyone knows Jules is a man’s name!”  I’m glad, very glad, I typed out Elie. I’ve had way too many confusions about gender and name.

    it’s the tiny stuff that trips folks like me up.

  271. 271.

    Bugboy

    Among them are Obama, who did not endorse Harris…

    I remember Obama underlining Harris’ talent a long, long, time ago, maybe as far back as when she was AG running for the Senate.

  272. 272.

    UncleEbeneezer

    She made a sharp distinction between pundits and whisperers who were advocating that Biden drop out, versus concerned Democratic voters who wanted Biden replaced.

    No. Fuck the latter too. You don’t get to align with the assholes and then claim you didn’t work together for this. You’ll rightly be seen as the Dem traitors you all are.  And that shit is gonna follow you forever because nobody is about to forget.  Anyone who used pearl-clutching framings like “concerned Democratic voters who wanted Biden replaced” was part of the coup.  Intent is not magic.  You made choices that made this shit happen and got what you wanted, but you’re gonna be judged for it.  That’s just how it is.

  273. 273.

    Martin

    @SomeRandomGuy: I’m not sure how we were supposed to bring that suit during the primaries though. 13% of Michiganders chose ‘no preference’, an option my state doesn’t afford me. 86% of dems simply didn’t bother to vote.

    Nothing we did was going to be registered as an expression of disapproval, and even if it was, where does that leave us because we have no way to express our choice. And again, the primary isn’t just the result of the vote but the process by which we got there. Biden in 2020 wouldn’t be the nominee without that process, the debates, the endorsement by Clyburn, etc. Those elements need to be played out. They matter.

    This is why I’m leveling such criticism toward that process – we went into 2024 with Biden being our nominee. We had this primary system to provide a sheen of legitimacy to that, but that’s all it was.

    So I agree that was the time to make the case, but no opportunity was provided to actually do that. And I’ve said before that had that process existed, the result might have been an electorate participating in the process, seeing the case for Biden, backing him, and rolling into June 2024 with him polling a lot better, with donations not falling off, and so on. I don’t know what’ll happen in the next 3 months, but maybe we could have carried him through with an energized electorate which a primary generates.

    To be additionally clear, I don’t think Biden has an impairment that prevents him from doing the job. But I think Biden had electoral problems that needed to be addressed, weren’t being addressed heading into the debate, and had only gotten worse after the debate. I’m not even arguing that those problems were fair to saddle him with. But politics doesn’t care about fair. It’s not tennis – the fans will scream slurs at you when you need to serve, and you just have to overcome that.

  275. 275.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @different-church-lady: There will be peace once everyone who supported Biden when it wasn’t cool admits that really they thought his brain was pudding the whole time and we were just bullshitting for ego.

  276. 276.

    Citizen Alan

    @Martin: My Personal belief is that biden probably would have only stay for 1 term uf Trump just fucking gone away. But joe believed that staying in to beat him again with something he would be able to do better than anyone else, because otherwise trump would have been the de facto incumbent in the race With all the advantages that come with incumbency, but none of the burdens of running the country.

  277. 277.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: I don’t use the pie filter, but I hope the folks who’ve bragged frequently about adding dozens of commenters in the past few weeks keep their vow to continue the blockade forever.

    “By Grabthar’s Hammer, I shall pie thee unto the 14th generation!” Okay then, so don’t toggle and become enraged with the people behind the pastry. Isn’t that the fucking point?

  278. 278.

    Citizen Alan

    @rikyrah: I Was under the impression that Kamala herself had embraced the coconut thing because it originated from a saying she repeated from her own mother.

  279. 279.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Martin: @SomeRandomGuy: I’m not sure how we were supposed to bring that suit during the primaries though.

    It’s called “winning”, the thing you didn’t do. If you’d pushed that suit successfully, we wouldn’t have had to change nominees would we? The “right” nominee would have been chosen. But it wasn’t.

    No one made any serious run at Biden, even though he was, how much younger was he again? Three years? Two years? At least one full year?

    Are you starting to see why your side isn’t all that respectable? You see  why this looks like people who are too stupid to know you can have a visceral reaction that is *incorrect*. Not in accordance with facts.

    You got scared, but it was Uncle Milty – your fear was wrong, but you *were* afraid. Feeling matters, but FACTS MATTER MORE.

    You got scared, it was the same old demonic hate, but this time, it’s flavored different and you screwed up.

    Or, you didn’t. I really don’t care. But people seem to think my thought processes need more explanation, so they know they’re not all emotional.

  280. 280.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Betty Cracker:  I used to be terribly lonely, so I was very careful about not hurting people’s feelings, and then I learned the worst truth ever.

    Lots of acquaintences will say they’re with you to the very end, and then shit on your corpse. Metaphorically speaking.

    So far.

    Anyway: I can say one thing I brought with me from Usenet.
    “It’s classless to announce a killfile (pie-filter); you don’t like the poster, but someone else might think they’re funny, interesting, etc..”

    And it’s generally true. It’s a thing that happens in dysfunctional families *A LOT*, and happens in happy families sometimes. The great “I’M ANGRY” flounce.

    (What? You think because I’m speaking in a mocking tone, I’m immune to this shit? I had to learn to get past it.)

    I can’t say how you mend feelings for people you care about. (Seriously, trust me, I’ve tried!)

    I can say, it helps if you can really, really, see the other side, and try to think about it. And if you can’t, well, let’s be honest: whatever happens between now, and next July, however we feel about each other, it’s really not gonna matter too much, who convinced or didn’t convince whom. It’s done, for good or ill. And, twelve months from now, we either won’t care too *terribly* much about forgiving, or won’t be able to afford *not* to.

    Okay, now, try to wind 12 months of time off that – too soon? Probably.

  281. 281.

    Geminid

    @Betty Cracker: What cracks me up is when Commenters threaten to pie someone. It reminds me of Tuco’s line in The Good, the Bad and the Ugly:

        “If you’re going to shoot, shoot don’t talk.”

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