Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We won’t go back.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

Even though I know this is a bad idea, I’m off to do it anyway!

Dead end MAGA boomers crying about Talyor Swift being a Dem is my kind of music. Turn it up.

Let there be snark.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

I conferred with the team and they all agree – still not tired of winning!

I am pretty sure Katy Tur wasn’t always such a bootlicking sycophant.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Days Since JD Vance Insulted Women Across America: Zero

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

If marriage is the equivalent of selling yourself into slavery, women with self respect should reject the offer.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

…and a burning sense of injustice to juice the soul.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Washington Post’s Catch and Kill, not noticeably better than the Enquirer’s.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Every Time the Sun Comes Up He’s in Trouble

Every Time the Sun Comes Up He’s in Trouble

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Every Time the Sun Comes Up He's in Trouble

Trump is having buyer’s remorse on the Vance pick:

Trump campaign officials acknowledged that Trump selected the inexperienced Vance, charged with all his techno-authoritarian ideas, to boost support among their own base, not extend a hand to swing voters, according to The Atlantic. Vance was a symbol of the Trump team’s assuredness that they would win in 2024. Come Sunday, that assuredness appears to be shrinking.

“Most striking thing I heard from Trump allies yesterday was the second-guessing of JD Vance—a selection, they acknowledged, that was [born] of cockiness, meant to run up margins with the base in a blowout rather than persuade swing voters in a nail-biter,” Atlantic staff writer Tim Alberta, who had written the piece about the panicking Trump campaign, posted on X (formerly Twitter).

Unlike a Trump golf course, there are no mulligans on your VP pick.  Vance was a shitty pick by an cocky and overconfident campaign, and he’s going to be total poison with women.  This is also worth at least a chuckle:

“And originally JD was probably not for me, but he didn’t know me. And then when we got to know each other, he liked me maybe more than anybody liked me,” Trump said during the pretaped interview, which aired Monday night on “Jesse Watters Primetime.”

“And he would stick up for me. And he’d fight for the worker as much as I fight for the worker,” [ed. note: not at all] the president added. “We just had an automatic chemistry.”

JD Vance has the charmless bootlicking personality of the junior manager chosen to tell everyone at the factory that they’re laid off because the company is outsourcing to Bangladesh.  He has the demeanor and bearing of  the county attorney prosecuting women for having abortions, the sheriff pulling over every brown person in the county to check ids, and the store manager hassling clerks who need to leave early to pick up their kids from daycare.  He’s where charm goes to die, buried under a manure pile of pseudo-intellectual, tedious, lousy cultural commentary.

I know VPs aren’t supposed to matter that much, but I think he matters.

Reader Interactions

222Comments

  2. 2.

    Nora

    I am so amused that they were so cocky.  Even with Joe Biden on the Democratic ticket, it was never going to be a walk in the park for Trump, but he was SO sure of himself.

    Vance is loathsome.  The more people see of him, the more vehemently they’re going to dislike him.  He brings nothing good to the ticket.

  3. 3.

    Ivan X

    I always think that a VP pick doesn’t help…but it can hurt. See: Sarah Palin. VP candidate’s only job is not to annoy people.

  4. 4.

    Matt McIrvin

    The Republicans in the Trump era have tended to go for what Bush’s folks called “shock and awe”–pile on spectacular, extreme assholery to move the window of acceptable behavior in an asshole direction, and just hammer the other side into paralyzing despair. Sometimes it works. Sometimes they get a windfall, as when that lunatic got a shot at Trump and it was a crisis they could milk.

    The past few weeks have just been one hammer blow after another, and they figured they’d keep piling on. It’s amazing how much things change when the Democrats just win ONE news cycle.

  6. 6.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Ivan X: that’s why my thinking about Harris’s VP possibilities ran toward more middle-of-the-road candidates, rather than big swings like running with AOC or something. Mostly you want a choice that does no harm.

  7. 7.

    brendancalling

    Also, JQ Mandelbaum’s Vance’s face hurts to look at. He looks like a grown-up Chucky.

    Also, too, what’s with the eyeliner?
    If that “Mountain Dew is racist” clip is any measure, he comes off as a kiss-ass. Low energy Jeb the sequel.

  8. 8.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    I think we’ll see a trajectory similar to DeSantis. The more people see of him the less they’ll like him.

  9. 9.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    I know VPs aren’t supposed to matter that much

    Two words: Sarah Palin

    And I know many of my fellow jackals remember that Dan Quayle was supposed to bring in the women’s vote because the Republicans thought he was good-looking, looked like Robert Redford. Which told the women of American what the Republicans thought about them.

  11. 11.

    Steve LaBonne

    Couldn’t have worked out better if a Democratic mole had gotten Trump’s ear (insert your own joke here) and convinced him to pick “my” loathesome Senator.

  12. 12.

    waspuppet

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: So in other words, he’s a Republican.

    JD Vance has the charmless bootlicking personality of the junior manager chosen to tell everyone at the factory that they’re laid off because the company is outsourcing to Bangladesh.

    Only if by “chosen” you mean “chosen after volunteering and lobbying for the job.”

  14. 14.

    Jerszy

    The most delicious part is that Vance was his SONS’ pick, after they ridiculed their dad over his preference for Burgham.

    TFG will literally NEVER forgive them for this. When he loses, this will be a primary blame recipient for him. “I listened to my idiot kids about one thing, and look what happened!”

  15. 15.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    @Matt McIrvin: Roy Cooper, NC’s Governor and favorite son. He’s never lost an election in North Carolina, and he’s been elected statewide many times now, as AG and as Governor. Term limited out this year.

    Kamala knows him well from back in their Attorney General days (with fellow AG Beau Biden).

    He’d be a great addition to the ticket.

  18. 18.

    artem1s

    TCFG just watched the Dem VP coup her boss in real time. (I know that not what happened. You know that’s not what happened, but…). He’s very aware of the part the GOP and MSM had in replacing the top of the Dem ticket. He will not only hold Vance at a distance now, he will also start to distrust anyone who had a hand in picking Vance. Hell, he was nearly assassinated by a Project 2025 extremist who was pissed that he was distancing himself from it in order to win the election. No way in hell he doesn’t think he’s next and that Vance was hand picked by the GOP to replace him at the top of the ticket.
    Projection. It’s always projection with these assholes.

  19. 19.

    The Red Pen

    Yeah, VPs usually don’t matter, but with both Trump and Biden at an advanced age (and both showing it), this time it does. I think a lot of people realized that the VP might be the P before 4 years elapse. Biden, I’m sure would not have stayed 4 years.

    As I told a friend recently, “This year, we’re voting for VP as much as we’re voting for P.”

  20. 20.

    JMG

    @TaxesMyCredulity: You’d better believe Vance knows that, and it’s why he lobbied so hard for the spot. If I were Trump, I wouldn’t drink any Diet Cokes Vance handed me. Should the horrible happen and Trump win, look for Vance to be the primary leaker in “Trump slipping fast, 25th Amendment in play?” stories

  24. 24.

    dmsilev

    Maybe Trump can have Vance whacked, and then argue that the presumptive immunity bestowed upon him by the Supreme Court extends to official acts carried out as a Presidential candidate.

  25. 25.

    artem1s

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:

    I like Roy Cooper. He’s got experience getting things done even with GOP opposition in the NC legislature. He could turn NC blue. He’d have Reverend Barber’s approval too I would think. I love this idea.

  26. 26.

    CaseyL

    @artem1s: ​

    Projection. It’s always projection with these assholes.

    In this case, they might actually have a point. Thiel’s distaste for Trump is well-known, I think – a means to an end, nothing more – and having his own little puppet there as Veep should anything regrettable happen to TCFG would not, in his view, be a bad thing.

  28. 28.

    different-church-lady

    TIRED: “Will Biden step aside?”
    WIRED: “Will Vance step aside?”

  30. 30.

    hueyplong

    Hadn’t really considered the fact that last weekend might make it really easy to run psy-ops on Trump about Vance and literally anyone Trump chose to replace him with.

    Trump is going to hit the ground every time he hears a stray noise, and he’ll only get to eat half of each Big Mac going forward.

    Mildly embarrassed at the Schadenfreude this thought brings.

  32. 32.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @artem1s:

    In the short amount of time since things changed, Cooper’s name has come up a lot.  Hard to say if it’s simply “irresponsible speculation” or not.

    But it might be a good pick.  I always felt Clinton stumbled with picking Kaine.  I liked Kaine but wasn’t sure what he brought to the ticket other than being male.  Coopers rep as a great campaigner makes him worth more of a look than Kaine plus all the other reasons (term limited, could bring NC into play, etc).

    I know VP picks don’t typically hurt the nominee’s chances but such a pick should help so I assume the Harris campaign is taking a strategic, electoral look at this and will decide appropriately.

    I still love the fact that with Harris at the top, as Joan McCarter said over at Teh Orange, this will be the abortion election.  We need to beat that like a cheap rug.

  33. 33.

    JPL

    trump will not lose to a woman.   In fact if he it appears, that  Harris will win, I predict that trump will quit.   At least I would like to think so.

  38. 38.

    Ken

    @artem1s: @JMG: Agreed that the Project 2025 guys only need Trump for about 30 seconds after he finishes the oath of office — and that we should all do everything we can to get that idea somewhere Trump might see it.

    But Vance might prefer Trump survive the first two years, so Vance would have a full ten years to repeal the 22nd Amendment.

  39. 39.

    p.a.

    Given his first pick, Mike “Animated Cream Cheese Sculpture” Pence, was there any doubt tRump would fuck up this one?

  40. 40.

    3Sice

    For anyone that doesn’t speak Village:

    Spent two hours yelling at Don Jr. and is  demanding they stiff suppliers for all that merch.

  41. 41.

    different-church-lady

    @p.a.: We should be thanking god for the Pence pick: someone else might have gone along with the scheme on Jan. 6.

  42. 42.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @different-church-lady:

    Now I can’t get that image out of my mind.  Actually, it’s probably the only image with Hair Furor in it that doesn’t automatically make me retch.

    That sentence should in no way be interpreted as endorsing political violence.*

    *My lawyers made me add that bit.

  45. 45.

    rk

    That reads like the dialogue from a badly written gay romance novel with an enemies to lovers trope.

  47. 47.

    wenchacha

    @fancycwabs:  That is quite the mental image. We need to couch our campaign against him using some sly references to it.

    I don’t want to upholstery-shame, but this is sofa king easy.

  52. 52.

    suzanne

    @brendancalling: Grown-up Chucky is a perfect way to put it.

    There was a McSweeney’s comment about the 1950s being a good time for men with weak chins. I think of that when I look at Vance.

  53. 53.

    Ridnik Chrome

    Ha, only a week after the convention and already Vance is being knifed by his own side. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

  57. 57.

    Mel

    A local Cincinnati news outlet headline was crowing about Vance filling an auditorium in Middletown last week.

    A HIGH SCHOOL auditorium, that is, that has maximum capacity of 800!!!

    😹

    Hahahaha! Delicious!

    I’m an actual Appalachian person (not to mention being a childless cat-lady!) and that toxic, misogynistic fake-billy isn’t fooling anyone that I know.

  58. 58.

    Lochnessmom

    Still amazed that somebody as narcissistically paranoid as TCFG chose someone so nakedly opportunistic. Add in the weird control freak Theil and all his money….well, Donny may need to hire extra food tasters.

    Also still delighted by “shillbilly eulogy.” Perfection!

  63. 63.

    BigJimSlade

    JD Vance has the charmless bootlicking personality of the junior manager chosen to tell everyone at the factory that they’re laid off because the company is outsourcing to Bangladesh.  He has the demeanor and bearing of  the county attorney prosecuting women for having abortions, the sheriff pulling over every brown person in the county to check ids, and the store manager hassling clerks who need to leave early to pick up their kids from daycare.  He’s where charm goes to die, buried under a manure pile of pseudo-intellectual, tedious, lousy cultural commentary.

    Yes, all of that. And punchable.

  64. 64.

    KatKapCC

    @different-church-lady: True. Much as I loathe the man, stopped clocks and all that. He did the right thing in that moment, and he stuck to his guns about it on his (rather abbreviated) campaign trail.

  67. 67.

    Other MJS

    Somewhat OT: Stephen Fucking Miller “defending” the rights of Democratic (primary) voters is hysterical.

  70. 70.

    Indycat32

    My sister lives in Middletown. It’s a mid size city between  Cincy and Dayton. It is not Appalachia.

  73. 73.

    hueyplong

    @wenchacha: The reason I ask is that to my knowledge it hadn’t even been briefed and a ruling would mean the circuit acted sua sponte.

  74. 74.

    Mel

    @WereBear: Indeed.

    I would love to see him creosote-coat 12 acres of fenceline  in 95 degree August heat, or perhaps shovel stalls out after the fall horse-worming session…

  75. 75.

    West of the Rockies

    Boy, the GOP just really specializes in dreary, puffy bootlickers:  DullSantis, Vance, Scott, Pompeo, MTG..

    And now Harris gets a few weeks of quantum buzz over her new arrival and VP pick.

    Trump has had his poorly-rated convention.  Project 2025 and Dobbs are albatrosses around their thick necks.

    Let’s go and GOTV.

  76. 76.

    JWR

    Ha ha, dimbulb. Remember, he pulled the same thing with Pence once the Buyer’s Remorse kicked in.

  77. 77.

    Delk

    Tom Cotton has been rage tweeting anti-Harris garbage. Either he’s pissed he wasn’t picked for VP or he’s gunning to replace Vance.

  78. 78.

    wenchacha

     

    @hueyplong:  I t must have been an earlier rejection that he was covering, from a different appeal.

    I got so excited.  Very sorry for my irrational exuberance.

  82. 82.

    CaseyL

    IIRC, Pence was a Manafort pick, to capture Talibangelicals.

    Vance appears to have been a Don Jr. pick, for FSM knows what reasons. I’ve heard it was to excite or solidify base support, which makes little sense since “the base” was already as solid as it could get without turning into neutronium.  More likely the promise of a lot of ready cash from Thiel.​

  83. 83.

    Virgogenes

    Speaking of voter outreach, how do BJers feel about VoteForward?  I’ve been writing letters through them since July 1st, banking them for October.  It is a good coping mechanism if nothing else.

  84. 84.

    Lapassionara

    @KatKapCC: the appeal process has just started. I’m not sure how a ruling on the merits would come so fast. Maybe a accelerated briefing schedule or the like.

  85. 85.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @CaseyL:

    Vance appears to have been a Don Jr. pick, for FSM knows what reasons.

    That does not sound like Trump at all.  Vance was Trump’s pick because Vance raised millions of dollars for Trump from rich people.  I would say that means Trump is stuck with Vance, but pocketing the money and then giving the buyer the middle finger is Trump’s MO.

  87. 87.

    tomtofa

    I grew up mostly in Appalachia. Vance isn’t Appalchian, and it’s odd he’s chosen to model himself on the worst examples of the breed.

  91. 91.

    Hoodie

    @CaseyL: An example of the Succession syndrome.  Sub-mediocre offspring think they’ve inherited their father’s (evil) talents.  If anything, shows Trump is slipping. It’s one thing to take a recommendation from an old political hand like Manafort.  Pence really wasn’t a terrible pick if the goal was to secure evangelical voters.  Pence is really one of them.  It’s another thing to listen to your idiot sons when they pitch some harebrained fake hillbilly startup financed by a gay Nazi.

  92. 92.

    BR

    Btw, for anyone still using X / Twitter, the bot problem there is insane. They’re already spewing anti-Harris nonsense, and Elongated Muskrat is putting his whole gut on the scale to push anti-Harris stuff into people’s feeds. Don’t trust anything you see there as representative of anything, and anyone you know who still is there, you might warn them now about the false narratives and deepfakes and all the rest that are sure to come from there.

  93. 93.

    Suzanne

    @Hoodie:

    It’s another thing to listen to your idiot sons when they pitch some harebrained fake hillbilly startup financed by a gay Nazi. 

    Lord, what a sentence.

  94. 94.

    Mel

    @WereBear: The finest part of the “packed auditorium” story is the buried detail that the supposed overflow consisted of a few “fans” loitering in the parking lot.

    So, 800 people give or take a few, in a town of about 55,600 people. That was the extent of his hometown turnout, in a red town in a red state.

    In the words of the estimable George Takei, “Oh, my…”

  96. 96.

    nickdag

    Could Trump remove Vance from the ticket at this point, if he wanted to? What are the relevant RNC rules and laws?

    I’m not asking about the political ramifications of doing so. I just don’t know if it’s logistically and legally possible.

  97. 97.

    SomeRandomGuy

    JD Vance has the charmless bootlicking personality of the junior manager chosen to tell everyone at the factory that they’re laid off because the company is outsourcing to Bangladesh. He has the demeanor and bearing of the county attorney prosecuting women for having abortions, the sheriff pulling over every brown person in the county to check ids, and the store manager hassling clerks who need to leave early to pick up their kids from daycare. He’s where charm goes to die, buried under a manure pile of pseudo-intellectual, tedious, lousy cultural commentary.

    Add workout photos of P90 or whatever hogwash, and I think you’ve described Paul Ryan to a T. The Republican Party has an interesting number two.

  99. 99.

    p.a.

    @nickdag: Could Trump remove Vance from the ticket at this point, if he wanted to?

     

     

     

    tRump could always invite him to a 5th Ave get-together…

  100. 100.

    Ohio Mom

    @wenchacha: I don’t see that anywhere when I goggled. I think that may be based on things that happened months ago

    ETA Would be happy to be wrong

  104. 104.

    Scout211

    @wenchacha: You can email a front pager and ask them to delete or edit it.  In the meantime, link the old comment to a new comment and copy and paste the old comment into your new one and add an edit or a correction to it on your new comment.

    You can do a strikeout to the old message or just add the correction.

    ETA clarity

  107. 107.

    Bill Arnold

    “Trump slipping fast, 25th Amendment in play?” stories

    The 25th Amendment has two sections relevant to the potential fulfillment of Vance’s ambitions, Section 1 and Section 4.

  108. 108.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @dmsilev: I wouldn’t bet the supreme court would buy that.

    Ahem. I wouldn’t bet the supreme court would buy that.

    I WOULD NEVER BET

    (man runs up) “Sorry, sir, 20-1 odds.”
    (Nods to man, man runs away)

    Ahem. I would never bet more than ten bucks the supreme court would buy that.

  111. 111.

    Ken

    @CaseyL: IIRC, Pence was a Manafort pick, to capture Talibangelicals.

    Wasn’t there something about Manafort delaying Trump’s plane to force a meeting with Pence?

  112. 112.

    CaseyL

    @nickdag: ​

    What are the relevant RNC rules and laws?

    There aren’t any. I mean, there may be a few on paper somewhere, but this is the Trump Cult we’re talking about.

    The way the GOP is now configured, Trump could dump Vance if he wanted to.

    Who’s going to say “No, you can’t do that”?

  113. 113.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @different-church-lady: Were it not for the secret service issues, I’d pay good money to see that, literally and figuratively.

    (What? Not to *cause* it… just to *see* it. Like on pay-per-view. It’s not *my* fault if it happens, and I just don’t want to miss it!)

  115. 115.

    Geminid

    J.D. Vance reminds me of the Grinch Who Stole Christmas. It’s like they recruited the Grinch, sent him to a barber and bought him some suits and ties.

  116. 116.

    Eyeroller

    @CaseyL: I’ve heard that Vance was actually chosen by David Sacks and Elon Musk, with Peter Thiel at least hovering around in the background.  DJT Jr was buddies with Vance somehow, so would have been easily influenced to recommend him.

  117. 117.

    BR

    Martin expressed on the last thread that picking a safe VP is no good in this moment. Sure, but other than AOC I can’t think of anyone who would fire up the base even more than Harris herself. Whereas the downsides of a VP pick are real. Shapiro has been more outspoken in favor of Israel in the Gaza war than Harris (to the extent I can tell) and that would hurt Harris with voters who are willing to see her as different from Biden on that issue (I’m not saying they’re right or wrong, just that that’s what I’m hearing). Mark Kelly might be the safest bet — bland but not too bland.

  118. 118.

    glc

    A reminder of where we are in the appeals process (namely, not filed yet).

    Special counsel Jack Smith formally filed notice on Wednesday that he will appeal a Florida judge’s decision to dismiss Donald Trump’s 40-count indictment for allegedly mishandling classified documents and obstructing government efforts to retrieve them.
    The appeal, laying out Smith’s argument for why the case should not be dismissed, is expected to land in the coming weeks in the Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit — an appeals court in Atlanta whose jurisdiction covers Florida.

  119. 119.

    sab

    As an Ohioan I am thrilled to see JD Vance flop in public. I know we voted for him, but we also voted for return to Roe v Wade by 57%.

    His secret had been keeping his mouth shut while running with an R after his name. He he actually think any of his voters had read his book and approved?

  120. 120.

    H.E.Wolf

    https://balloon-juice.com/2024/07/15/rnc-open-thread-tfg-picks-j-d-vance-as-his-vp/
    H.E.Wolf July 15, 2024 at 8:23 pm [comment 74]
    I’m not sure I’d lay actual folding money on it… but I wouldn’t be utterly surprised if Vance is replaced as the VP candidate before the election.

    I’m basing this entirely on vibes :) and on the Republican m.o. that “every accusation is a projection”, with regard to all the calls, over the years, for Democratic candidates to be replaced.

    I once laid a $1 bet with some ice-hockey-watching buddies that Player X had scored Y many goals in a recent game (which was in dispute for some silly reason) –– and one of the assembled buddyhood said, “Don’t even bother to look it up. If [H.E.] placed an actual *BET* on something, it’s a done deal.”

    (I was kind of surprised they knew me that well.)

    You’ll notice I didn’t go quite that far on the 15th. I’m still a cautious bettor. But if it happens… I called it early. 😎

  122. 122.

    M31

    @WereBear: lol the only thing I remember about Kaine is that Harris taught him how to cut onions — that was him, right?

    it was a cool trick to crisscross cut the bottom of a cut half of an onion, then make a slice of that, giving you nice little bits for your tuna salad

  124. 124.

    WereBear

    @M31: See, didn’t even remember that. I mean it’s an empty drawer when I go to look.

    Of course, a lot of trauma has gone over the falls since then :)

  125. 125.

    Chris Johnson

    I’ve said it on Twitter, I’ve said it on BlueSky, and now it’s a Vance thread on Balloon Juice so it’s on-topic…

    I think Trump is going to dump JD Vance and put in Tucker Carlson as VP. Carlson is the only one working more closely with Putin, and has media history, and laughs (it’s horrifying, but he does). I’m calling it. Let’s see.

    If that happens, it answers ‘who is really running the party’ with ‘Putin. DUUUHH’.

    Russians aren’t solicitous of their agents, Trump is folding like a cheap suit, and Carlson is both completely loyal to his real boss Putin (and has demonstrated this repeatedly, even when given quite a hard time in that interview where he had to choke down a lot of humiliation) and the only possible choice for Putin that has any sort of actual charisma and media history. Vance is tanking.

    It does not in any way fix the Republicans’ real problems, but if we’re talking about replacings, I’m calling it. Tucker Carlson. Either as Veep… or the whole deal.

  127. 127.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    Vance matters a lot because one of the biggest attacks they are going to throw at Harris is that she’s an unqualified DEI pick. Vance is significantly LESS qualified. We can shove that in their faces over and over. He was only picked because he is a white, Christian, male who wrote a book. That’s it. He is the epitome of choosing someone, not because they are the best candidate for the job, but because of identity politics.

  128. 128.

    Hoodie

    @BR: Yeah, I don’t buy Martin’s theory.  You’re already asking Americans to make a big perceptual adjustment voting for Harris.   Some of that is racism and misogyny, but a lot of it is just a kind of confused risk aversion.  You also don’t want your VP to upstage your presidential candidate.   I fear Kelly would be too much like Tim Kaine; great guy, but not enough of a close-in fighter.  I think Beshear or Cooper make the most sense, particularly because of the ability to eviscerate JD Vance.  Beshear and Cooper have bona fide rural connections.   Even though he does have an elite education, Beshear has real Appalachian roots.  Cooper is real eastern NC, graduate of UNC and UNC Law.

  129. 129.

    Martin

    @Ivan X: Biden choosing Harris got a LOT of Democrats on board.

    And I’m going to reframe the VP pick for Democrats a bit differently.  For republicans, Trump is the defined quantity for every voter. Every voter has an opinion of him good or bad, and almost never neutral. Their VP pick probably can’t help, as you note.

    Biden in 2020 was a little different because we had this divided but not hostile Democratic base, and Harris got a lot of the ‘christ, not another white guy’ Dems on board. It showed a certain amount of respect to who does the work. It didn’t get any Trump voters to flip to Biden, but it made sure Dems turned out. Again, for Democrats the whole fucking ballgame is turnout of the base. There are WAY more Democrats than Republicans in this country – like 20 million more. A LOT. Clinton couldn’t get them to the polls, Kaine didn’t help. Biden got them to the polls, Harris helped.

    In 2024, ask yourselves honestly, regardless if you were a keep-Biden or not, what explains the last 48 hours. Harris is not going to pick up white men better than Biden. Yet, there’s all this new energy. Harris is not going to carry the ‘elder statesman’ banner. Yet there’s all this new energy. Nobody is expecting Harris to do a better job at passing EV credits. Yet there’s all this new energy.

    The energy is there because, particularly black Democrats, see a candidate who they trust to carry their message not as a proxy, but as one of them, and through which they can channel their energy. It’s a lot easier for a black canvasser to knock on the door of a voter and give an impassioned pitch in favor of a black woman than a white man. The candidate unlocks the power of the electorate, and it’s the electorate that carries the election, not the candidate. Trump is carried by MAGA, Kamala is carried by black voters and women in a way that in 2024 Biden couldn’t really get – even if he was a good ally.

    I think the choice of a VP sends a couple of different messages simultaneously and is a bit of a trap for Democrats. Everyone is saying that we need a safe white guy out of a sense of electoral reality, but that also sends the message to Democratic voters that white patriarchal society deserves to be catered to – as if Project 2025 and Dobbs and the other USSC rulings and Trump weren’t the very white patriarchal society actions that have been causing Democrats so much fear and dread. What does that kind of choice say to those voters carrying Harris? I keep seeing comments about the anger in the black community about Biden being pushed out by a bunch of rich white folk and their suspicion of their motives, and while we thankfully preserved Harris as the nominee which settles them down some, we’re going to what – make this demand that the VP be the thing they were sure white Democrats were going to demand? If the real goal is to turn out Democrats, the focus should be on rejecting that demand by white progressives to cater to white male voters once and for all and putting another woman, another POC on the ticket.

    This defensive crouch that Democrats constantly fall into, fretting that the electorate is constantly out to get them when we are the majority. Women are 51% of the population and in 2020 10 million more women voted than men. If Latino turnout in Texas matched white turnout, Democrats would win it.

    From 2010 to 2020, the white population in the US fell for the first time – from 223M to 204M – a net of 19 million white voters died. The overall population increased – young, mostly latino voters took their place – more than 19 million of them. The share of the electorate that is white fell from 74% when Obama was elected to 61% when Trump was defeated, and it’s falling about 1% every other year – probably 60% now or possibly under. Stop accepting that this declining demographic must be catered to, and focus on who Democrats are who they deserve to be represented by.

    I think the mistake would be a white male because I think it undermines every ounce of energy happening right now.

  130. 130.

    Sean

    @Hoodie:

    I think this is right and that Cooper or Shapiro likely have the inside track. I think Beshear is an idea they haven’t foreclosed on, either. Cooper’s popularity in the state is a very good attribute, along with the fact that he is a very experienced campaigner.

    Ultimately, the campaign is looking for what works for them and the VP. They have a tiny window to vet as well, which puts real strain on the process of picking anyone who hasn’t already had at least some vetting in the past. Looking forward to seeing their choice.

  131. 131.

    Pink Tie

    Like all of you, I find it delicious that Vance barely made it two weeks before the campaign realized how gross he is. So nakedly ambitious and free of any principles he might ever have possessed. My question is: if Vance is pressured to drop out (no doubt to spend more time with his beloved young children), who becomes the new VP nominee?

    I woke up smiling about Kamala Harris, after crying in my kitchen reading the news of Joe Biden stepping down. Now I’m reflecting on how great the timing was for their move — love that the GOP wasted tremendous time and resources investigating Hunter, sending Rudy to Ukraine, mounting an entire campaign and convention with “Biden is old and weak” as the main theme. They’re still playing checkers. And every time I see Harris smiling on the news, I smile too — she is awesome, charismatic, sharp, and ready to bring out her own experiences in a way she couldn’t do as #2 on the ticket in 2020. And I know it’s superficial, but she is also vibrantly gorgeous & will look even more so next to Trump.

  132. 132.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Martin: I disagree with Martin because of the electoral college. It buys us nothing to run up the totals in urban areas. We need the suburbs. Those folks are going to be squishy on Kamala because she is so liberal. Where Biden’s support declined was among moderates. Losing those folks was part of why his polls sank.

  133. 133.

    Ken

    @3Sice: So when do they announce Vance is checking himself into rehab?

    It’s possible they’ll try the full 1984 unperson route: stop mentioning Vance in any way, and act like someone else had been picked at the convention.

  135. 135.

    M31

    Harris is going to install a Diet Mountain Dew button in the Oval Office, mark my words

  136. 136.

    Trivia Man

    “He liked me more than probably anybody liked me.”

    Lickspittle game is A+ and he, correctly, judged that would land the gig.

    😁😁😁

  137. 137.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Frankensteinbeck: Word is, his two sons Junior and Eric made big boy poo For no reason at all, Donald decided to let Junior and Eric make his decision, or so the political gossip columns say.

  143. 143.

    CaseyL

    Putting Vance on the GOP ticket didn’t add anything, but would removing him make trouble for them?

    Never mind how much the real world finds Vance loathsome, how do MAGAs feel about him? He’s more nakedly racist/sexist/every other -ist than even Trump, which I imagine makes them very happy.

    Dumping Vance simply because his loathsomeness is suddenly less of an asset outside MAGA circles may make them less happy.​

  146. 146.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    Vance matters a lot because one of the biggest attacks they are going to throw at Harris is that she’s an unqualified DEI pick. Vance is significantly LESS qualified. We can shove that in their faces over and over. He was only picked because he is a white, Christian, male who wrote a book.

    Last night soonergrunt made that same statement on twitter, mainly just wait until tomorrow when the Fauxrage Machine starts in on Harris as the DEI Candidate.

    And yup, turn that around on them.  Our message isn’t intended for their audience but for anybody wavering.  Add in all his misogynist statements, tie that into Dobbs and away we go.

  148. 148.

    Ken

    @SomeRandomGuy: For no reason at all, Donald decided to let Junior and Eric make his decision, or so the political gossip columns say.

    I’m getting more than a whiff of “establish that it wasn’t Trump’s idea” from that, which should be making Vance nervous.

  149. 149.

    catclub

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: I still love the fact that with Harris at the top, as Joan McCarter said over at Teh Orange, this will be the abortion election.

     

    even with Biden atop the ticket it would be the first presidential election after Dobbs.  And all the post-Dobbs elections have a) gone in favor of Roe, and b) not been polled very well.

  152. 152.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    I’d prefer a VP candidate who is fluent in Spanish and can do direct outreach to those communities, comparing Donald to autocrats who have done tremendous damage. We need something to counter GOP messaging that progressive Democrats want to turn the US into Cuba or Venuzuela.

  153. 153.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Mike in NC: Technically, ready to be murdered. Unless TFG had planned it to be an official act. Next time, for SURE!

     

    @Geminid: And his brother, whose heart was a mere two sizes too small, was then forced to take over the family business….

  154. 154.

    Martin

    @BR: I think a latino – male or female would energize that pool of voters. Democrats are losing them right now.

    One of the reasons why I like AOC is her focus on upward mobility which works with both Latinos and young voters including non-college bound young voters, but other candidates can make that pitch. Biden’s focus on college debt is nice, but that mostly benefits white middle class households, not working class and not latino households. Democrats haven’t had a great message for them apart from a strong return to labor support, which they need to continue. Issues like college access (getting admitted) so they can benefit from the upward mobility of a degree, housing costs, transportation costs, etc. Jobs isn’t a huge problem to solve right now – those are arriving but the pay needs to be there and that continues to be uneven. These were Biden strengths but they also weren’t reaching the needed audience.

  157. 157.

    Hoodie

    @Martin: Sorry, not buying it.  We have a black woman on the top of the ticket; that drowns out any message like that to the non-white communities and youth.  AOC herself said that Joe Biden brought an important thing to the table in his ability to appeal to older voters.  There is still a ton of insecure white voters and you need to win at least some of them by acknowledging that they still matter and, importantly, you’re inviting them along for this new future you’re talking about.   Of course, you have to make sure you don’t do something dumb by picking the wrong white guy (e.g., Joe Manchin), but there are plenty of white pols who, like Joe Biden, have progressive records and longstanding relationships with communities of color.  I can tell you that is genuinely the case with Roy Cooper here in NC.  Pete B is a great cabinet member and would be a great SoS or SecDef, but making him VP would be dumb and a waste of his talents.  The only way I’d buy into your theory is if you doubled down on the gender aspect by picking someone like Whitmer because that is a practical way of turning the gender gap into a chasm.  However, she doesn’t seem interested and I’m not sure that’s enough to win.

  158. 158.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Hoodie:

    I don’t buy it either.

    In an earlier thread, I’d mentioned how I felt Clinton stumbled on the Kaine pick.  He didn’t hurt but he didn’t help and in this situation we need a VP pick that’ll help.

    Cooper is apparently a great campaigner on the trail (not Kaine’s strong suit by any stretch).  And he should bring NC into play.

    If the campaign is looking two levels down and two cycles ahead, they’ll take a strategic, electoral approach to the pick.

    It’s interesting to see comments about how people in our various circles perceive Harris as “too progressive” and yet the Horseshoe Left (I know, who cares), who are seemingly getting onboard with Harris, grudgingly, think that she needs a VP pick that’s a “true progressive” in order to win.  I’m chuckling at the range of reactions along the left spectrum of politics.

  159. 159.

    Citizen Dave

    @Pink Tie: I was struck by, in Biden’s post NATO press conference,  the question towards the end reminding him that in 2020 he said he was a transitional candidate/ leader, and when would be the time to pass the torch?  Way back in those two-week ago times, I remember thinking, yes, when will be the time?  If he gets us over the 2024 finish line, he could hand off to Harris after a year or two.

    Re: Martin, I love how you bring data and facts–very interesting.  I’m with you on your argument, but also recognize getting NC or ensuring PA is also important.  Really, trust in Kamala.  Whoever it is, they need to have energy and engagement,  which I’m sure they will.

    Re: Trump’s plane in 2020 and Pence.  Yes it happened, here at the Indy airport.  Bogus “repair” caused trump to stay overnight, have dinner with Pence, etc.  Maybe Pence was a wacky joke by Putin, just to see if could.

  161. 161.

    Paul in KY

    @3Sice: Maybe TFG will send him for some electro-shock therapy. Non-voluntarily, if that’s what it takes…

  162. 162.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Paul in KY:

    If Felonious D could get away with it, he’d probably pick either Uday or Qusay as his VP.

    I’d read sometime back that one of the two idiot sons after the 2016 election, was heavily into the political campaigning/messaging arena and within RWNJ circles, was actually really good at it.  Had finally found his “talent” is it were.  Can’t remember which on tho.

  163. 163.

    prufrock

    @Mel: That’s hilarious! My daughter’s middle school chorus routinely filled out a high school auditorium, but we didn’t take it to mean they were ready for Broadway.

  165. 165.

    Paul in KY

    @Hoodie: I love Andy! great governor, but Cooper seems like the smarter pick. Taking NC in the election is like 2 torpedo’s to the side of the bad ship MAGAtania.

  169. 169.

    Sean

    Just saw a blurb that Trump camp is readying to launch a “Willie Horton” style volley against Kamala, but that his advisors are “worried Trump won’t be able to keep the racism aspect subtextual.”

    Geez. You think? Also, reporters, maybe remark on the advisors basically saying, “we know that’s really racist, but we just hope he keeps it subtextual.” Seems like a story.

  172. 172.

    Geminid

    @BR: Actually, I think Mark Kelly has a low key charisma that could appeal across a wide geographic and demographic spectrum. He projects honesty and reliability. I think older voters especially would find him reassuring.

    I’m not saying Kelly should be the one but I think he has the elements of a strong candidate.

  174. 174.

    Hoodie

    @Paul in KY: It’s not guaranteed he could deliver NC, but he might help on the margins, especially because Harris stands a chance of boosting black turnout, which is always a key issue here.   He  probably won’t do much to help in PA, MI and WI, however,   I do think a Harris/Whitmer ticket might be intriguing in that respect and because women’s issues are front and center, but looks like that isn’t in the cards.

  176. 176.

    JaneE

    I know VPs aren’t supposed to matter that much, but I think he matters.

    Vance matters because Trump is old.  He may survive another 4 years but he may not.  Would Vance use Trump’s mental health to invoke the 25th and take the reins?  Not impossible.

    Best to keep all Republicans out of office, period.

  178. 178.

    Geminid

    @Paul in KY: I’d hate go see Kentuckians lose Beshear. He’s keeping the feral Reublican knuckledraggers from ruining their state.

    As it stands, Beshear will be Governor until January of 2028. Then he can run Rand Paul out of the Senate that November

  179. 179.

    Hoodie

    @HumboldtBlue:  I don’t know if Trump believes that, but he probably thinks his idiot followers will make that association.  A lot of his weird ass theories may have that genesis.  He knows how to speak moron.

  180. 180.

    SatanicPanic

    @Geminid: I second Mark Kelly. He seems like a nice man, and his personal story is really compelling. Standing with Gabby Giffords is a great testament to his morals. And he’s an astronaut. That’s probably something old people like.

  182. 182.

    Geminid

    @M31: That may have been Mark Warner. I remember Harris teaching him to make a grilled open face tuna sandwich. That was kind of a bland dish but Harris knew her man.

  183. 183.

    Paul in KY

    @Geminid: God would that be great! Rand Paul is even worse than the Senitortise, as he does completely NOTHING for any Kentuckian whatsoever.

    Would be a very hard race though. A Dem hasn’t won Sen in KY since Sen. Ford won his last re-election campaign.

  186. 186.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Agreed.  He is qualified and could help shift North Carolina, and his selection would not jeopardize a Blue Governor or Senator seat.  As for foreign policy chops,  Madame VP has more than Trump,  Pence, or Vance.

  189. 189.

    hotshoe

    I just heard the news — old news by now, I guess, since it was sometime last evening — that Nancy Pelosi made the motion on CA delegates Zoom call to endorse Kamala Harris, and unamimously more than 400 delegates pledged to support Harris for president.
    This means that Harris now has enough pledged delegates to be officially nominated on first vote — the pre-Ohio-deadline vote first week of August. No goddamn contested convention.

    This also means that I’m (a little more) inclined to forgive Pelosi for what I (still) see as tawdry manipulation towards Joe Biden’s resignation.
    Joe Biden gets to retire home to Delaware a happy man, at peace, his life’s work accomplished, if we use our power to get Harris elected.
    LFG!

  191. 191.

    Captain C

    @fancycwabs:

    All this, plus many people are saying that Hillbilly Elegy has documented proof that Vance used to pleasure himself with a sofa.

    “Vance the Couchfucker” sounds like a character out of a William S. Burroughs novel.

  193. 193.

    hotshoe

    @SatanicPanic: ​
     

    Bob Menendez is going to resign

    NJ law allows NJ governor Phil Murphy (Dem) to appoint a replacement until the next election, and he has already said he will do that but hasn’t said who.
    So, that’s good news today. More good news!

  194. 194.

    HumboldtBlue

    @hotshoe: ​ 

    This also means that I’m (a little more) inclined to forgive Pelosi for what I (still) see as tawdry manipulation towards Joe Biden’s resignation.

    I think we’re underestimating Joe’s role in all of this. He’s not stupid, he can read polls, he knows he’s old, and I think he was in the middle of putting this transition together.

    It has his fingerprints all over it, it’s a bold political move made by a supreme political mover, it has completely wrong-footed the GOP and has inspired a mass of movement and excitement in the Dem base.

    The more I analyze it, the more it becomes apparent Joe was working this along with everyone else.

  196. 196.

    Martin

    @Hoodie: I think you’re misunderstanding my point. Obama didn’t win Iowa by appealing to white voters better than John McCain did. Obama won Iowa by building an army of supporters who carried his message to their neighbors. Obama didn’t convince Iowa voters – energized Iowa Democrats knocking on doors, making calls, writing postcards convinced Iowa voters.

    That’s the missing piece. Harris can’t readily convince Wisconsin voters as well as Wisconsin Dems can. How do you light up Wisconsin Dems? That’s the problem to solve.

    Obama won because he appealed to Democrats and Democrats built an army who carried him over the line. Biden was struggling not because he wasn’t appealing to Ohio diners, but because he wasn’t lighting up Democratic activists.

  198. 198.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @Hoodie: He’s like a carnival barker or a wandering preacher. There are ways to work a crowd and get them energized, and they’re not that hard, but not everyone can do them. It can look like magic, but it’s just being able to watch the right cues, *and* knowing what will keep their juices flowing (and if you know human scent, you’ll know it’s not just blood and sweat flowing, friends).

    Huh. That’s probably why he has so many deep fans. It’s easy to have a wacky emotional reaction in a crowd, due to contagion. And, of course, contagion isn’t always bad. If you were singing the blues, then came, and sang some spirituals in a lively tent revival, you might straighten up and sing the soft kind of blues, the kind they play for non-blues-folk, and give up your wicked ways (except where appropriate).

    Now, one thing people didn’t notice a week or so ago, his crowds are small. If he drew a big crowd, maybe he could have been in an arena, where it was safe, not a fairgrounds, and he wouldn’t have been shot at and missed and shit at and hit. So he’s probably glad for his inability to draw crowds, perversely enough.

    If someone had a trickster spirit in them, I’d suggest a bunch of people all stream one of his rallies if you can, and find someone doing something on their phone, or making a weird face, and make a quick video, “do you see the losers who still go to the Trump rallies?” (and then make  a mocking face or motion – like you were playing on your phone, or grabbing your own, uh, nethers, or pretend streaming tears of gratitude – I mean, *come on* I can’t be the only brother to two older siblings. You’ve got to know ways to be mean to a fellow five-year-old, even though we hope you haven’t used those talents other than in the matter of eating vegetables, etc..

    No message, no words, just some gesture. And laugh. “OMG! Just look at them!”

    Find which videos play well, and guess that the themes. I would hit phone play. See, the one thing *no one* wants to do is listen to that rotten DoughballJT for long, they *need* distraction.

    That’s what he does, only, he knows what videos played well, and he’s got established lines to sync into. Problem is, now, the only thing he’s interested in is him, so that’s most of the speech, so, distraction.

    Mock how they don’t even listen to him, don’t even respect them, don’t even really care about them. “Well, that’s okay, he doesn’t respect them either, giving up on Project 2025!”

    That’s his power. Getting people in a group and reading the energy and keeping to it is how he wins. If you wanted to short circuit it, play the same thing in return. Don’t try to *insult* people who go to rallies – just, pity them, “OMG, how do their families manage?” <- really potent line!!!, etc..

    Sorry. I pricked my brain and words fell out.

  199. 199.

    Martin

    @HumboldtBlue: I disagree. Every scrap of reporting is that Joe was some part being stubborn believing that only he could beat Trump, and his campaign was some part hiding the bad news. It’s reported that Pelosi and Obama were alarmed that the Biden campaign’s internal swing state polls were weeks old and that the campaign was avoiding running those to protect Biden from the news.

    I think once Biden got a complete picture, and Pelosi got through to him that he jumped on board and threw his weight behind the hand-off, but that was Friday/Saturday that he got there. So a day or so.

    I believe it was the 17th, last Wed, that Biden was still telling Pelosi on a call that his polling showed he still had a path.

  200. 200.

    hotshoe

    @HumboldtBlue:

    I take your point; we know that Joe must have put the transition together before the weekend, before he wrote his resignation letter, must have worked to get significant support (in secret!) or else it would not have come together so quickly on Sunday afternoon.

    Also: Schumer and Jeffries both have endorsed Kamala Harris today. Schumer said something about it being Harris’s request to delay “she wanted the opportunity to win the nomination on her own, and to do so from the grassroots up, not top down” — and Jeffries echoed that.

    Seems to me it was a risky move on everybody’s part — since it is working gloriously now, I guess it’s good I wasn’t part of their strategy sessions ;)

  201. 201.

    Martin

    @Hoodie: Because he didn’t need Biden to do that – he had already done it during the primary over 9 months.

    Harris situation is different. She’s 48 hours into this and has to do this whole lift not in a year, but in 3 months. She’s got to do this 4x faster, which is why I think having a VP pick that adds to that energy is important.

  202. 202.

    trnc

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: ​
     

    Roy Cooper, NC’s Governor and favorite son. He’s never lost an election in North Carolina, and he’s been elected statewide many times now, as AG and as Governor. Term limited out this year.

    Kamala knows him well from back in their Attorney General days (with fellow AG Beau Biden).

    He’d be a great addition to the ticket.

    I see a lot of positive sentiment here about Cooper and I think he’s been as good a governor as he can be with an unfriendly, veto proof legislature …

    … but he’ll be 75 at the end of Kamala’s 2nd term, and I suspect the lure of running for prez will be mighty strong. I’d prefer a younger VP and for Cooper to get a cabinet spot.

  203. 203.

    Soprano2

    I told two women I work with this morning that according to the Republican VP pick I have no interest in the future of the U.S. because I haven’t borne biological children. They were both like no, he said that? I said oh yes he did say that. They were aghast. If that’s the Republican outreach to female voters, well it’s not going to work well is it?

  204. 204.

    Martin

    @hotshoe: I take your point; we know that Joe must have put the transition together before the weekend, before he wrote his resignation letter

    Why do we know that? He didn’t tell Harris until Sunday per the reporting. Everything else was either Democrats knowing what to do or whipping by people like Pelosi who have been working on this for a while. Handing off the campaign on Sunday needed some planning. An awful lot of other stuff had already been done because of Joes Covid diagnosis – handing off speaking events to Harris had already been arranged for that reason.

  205. 205.

    Jager

    We flew to Hawaii on the 10th, flew back yesterday. Never turned on the TV, went to 3 family events, including the best wedding we have ever been to. We drove to the northshore ( I can’t surf worth at shit anymore!) hung out with some old friends, We ate some great food  from food trucks, and later cooked at our condo (the new stove kicks butt) I sat on my ass on the decks and watched sunrises and sunsets,.I looked at a sailboat, I’d buy and sail to New Zealand if I WAS 20 YEARS YOUNGER!!!!

    My cousin’s son married an absolutely stunning Asian woman, she is as sweet as she is beautiful too! Their friends are every race and color. Not only was the wedding Christian/Buddhist and Polynesian, the woman who did the service for them was a Unitarian minister. It makes me sad that their are places in our country where B&G’s wedding and marriage would be put down.

    Then we deplaned at LAX, jumped in the Jeep , turned on the radio for traffic and realized that we missed one hell of a shit show….

    I think we’ll be fine, trump will get his ass handed to him. by Kamala.

    It’s over to the local Dem office for me tomorrow.

  206. 206.

    hotshoe

    @Ksmiami:

    I’d like to know how that works, legally.

    Official nominee names from the R party went to all 50 states last week.

    Unlike Biden dropping out of race before Dems officially nominated anyone — if Vance gets forced out by Dumpster after being officially nominated, I bet that has legal consequences.

    Well, I don’t see folks elsewhere on internet speculating about those consequences, although they are definitely writing about how Vance is bad with women voters for Dumpster.

  207. 207.

    Central Planning

    @JaneE: I think the MAGAts would prefer a drooling, pants-shitting, incapacitated Trump as president instead of Vance taking over. The 25th remedy will lose them a ton of supporters.

  208. 208.

    Central Planning

    @Captain C: I know we don’t kink-shame here, but can we make an exception for Vance? Would we lose the couch-fucking voters?

  209. 209.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @sab: Can we start a rumor that he also ghost wrote Noem’s book, “How a moment of rage transformed Noem into a killer of defenseless animals, with only a (double barrel shotgun, I assumed) to protect her!”

    Put the two together, it’s like peanut butter and chocolate.

    (Or seedless raspberry jam. Or concord grape, if you swing that way. I’m sorry, I have to add additional flavors to avoid – uh, ha ha, not to avoid the Mighty Reeses Corporation, of course, not for that reason, but, I just had to.)

    Anyone want a mini-Reeses? I’m a bit oversupplied.

  211. 211.

    Geminid

    @trnc: What if Roy Cooper did run after Harris’s 2nd term? Nobody would have to vote for him, and I doubt if very many Democrats would. There will be several stronger candidates to choose from.

    I hope Harris picks the person she thinks brings the most strength to this year’s ticket, without regard to future presidential elections. Such considerations are speculative anyway.

  212. 212.

    Hoodie

    @Geminid: Cooper would be unlikely to want to run for president at 75.  I think the Biden situation kind of distorted our perceptions of that possibility.  My guess is that Biden really didn’t intend to run again, because the optimal time to do that would have been 2016.  If HRC had won, his presidential window would have likely closed.  He came out of retirement because Trump was a particularly serious menace to the country,  the country needed someone with a lot of experience to stabilize it after Trump’s disasterous handling of the pandemic, and no one else would be able to beat Trump (the bench was pretty thin in 2020).  That would not be the case for Cooper after 8 years of a Harris admin.  If Harris only serves one term, then it would be a free for all and Cooper would have no particular advantage.

  213. 213.

    Ksmiami

    @hotshoe: he’ll claim if the Dems can change so can he… his world is magic and rules don’t apply to the Orangemandias

  216. 216.

    4D*hiker

    @Geminid:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Agree with both. Biden didn’t win 2020 with only Democratic voters. There’s a huge segment of older conservatives who are appalled by Trump. I live in Oklahoma and know this to be true. But, I believe Harris and team will make the choice that reflects their best chance to win both popular vote and EC.

  217. 217.

    Citizen Alan

    @Soprano2: Hell, I’m a childless man, and I wouldn’t be able to vote in Vance’s weird semen-based dystopia. Or maybe if I go to the polls and am asked if I have any children, I can just say “None … that I know of” and then give an exaggerated wink.

  218. 218.

    Noskilz

    Nice to see they wasted no time in going full crab-bucket, but then trumpworld always has been a snake-pit of backstabbing and intrigue.

    Here’s hoping they openly can’t stand the sight of one another before long, and if they can somehow screw up that Yarvin fool’s life on the way out the door, that would be a great too.

  220. 220.

    m.j.

    I think telling Trump his VP pick is loyal, just not to him, might sew a little paranoia.

    I’d like to see some narratives emerge where the plutocrats that bought Vance are expecting a presidency in return.

  221. 221.

    JCNZ

    @Martin:

    “If Latino turnout in Texas matched white turnout, Democrats would win it.”

    Terrific analysis. Out of curiosity, is there a Latino/a who might fit the bill, VP-wise’

  222. 222.

    JCNZ

    @Jager: Come to New Zealand anyway. Your cousin’s son’s wedding is what this place is like all the time (seriously).

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