Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

Quote tweet friends, screenshot enemies.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

“I was told there would be no fact checking.”

Not loving this new fraud based economy.

These are not very smart people, and things got out of hand.

The arc of the moral universe does not bend itself. it is up to us to bend it.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

Cancel the cowardly Times and Post and set up an equivalent monthly donation to ProPublica.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

President Musk and Trump are both poorly raised, coddled 8 year old boys.

Weird. Rome has an American Pope and America has a Russian President.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

Disappointing to see gov. newsom with his finger to the wind.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: LFG!

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: LFG!

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Tuesday Morning Open Thread: LFG!

(Clay Bennett via GoComics.com)

 
I respect President Biden’s wishes; he’s announced that Vice-President Harris is his chosen successor. So even while we pay tribute to possibly the best American president of my lifetime, we need to work to make his wish come true.
 

The Democratic Party plans to push forward with a virtual roll call in which delegates to its convention can choose a presidential nominee before they gather next month in Chicago — despite Vice President Kamala Harris being overwhelmingly favored to replace President Joe Biden at the top of the ticket.

The convention rules committee will meet Wednesday to approve how the virtual roll call will work, but a draft of the plan was obtained by The Associated Press on Monday night. It does not list a date for when virtual voting would begin, but Democratic National Committee Chair Jaime Harrison said the process will be completed by Aug. 7 — or 12 days before the party’s convention begins.

“We are living through an unprecedented moment in history and, as a party, we are tackling it with the seriousness that it deserves,” Harrison said on a conference call with reporters. “We are prepared to undertake a transparent, swift and orderly process to move forward as a united Democratic Party with a nominee who represents our values.”

He also said Democrats “can, and will, be both fast and fair as we execute this nomination.” …


i’m okay with whatever levels of winemomming emerge over the next three plus months, being right pretty much all the time for seven years grants you bennies
if we can live laugh love our way out of fascism, i’m down

— not an art thief (@famousartthief.bsky.social) Jul 22, 2024 at 4:36 PM


 
A little jackal treat: Maggie Haberman is already in mourning for her cushy stenography gig and six-figure book advances:
Tuesday Morning Open Thread: LFG! 1

Reader Interactions

487Comments

  2. 2.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    I think it’s worth it now just to hear Trump call Harris “Biden”.

  4. 4.

    Scout211

    Kamala has support from Beyoncé! This is actually a very big deal.

    Vice President Kamala Harris made a big entrance during her first official visit to her campaign headquarters on Monday evening, walking out to Beyoncé’s song “Freedom.”

    A source close to Harris told CNN that her team got approval from Beyoncé’s representatives to use the song throughout her presidential campaign.

    Beyoncé, who is known for maintaining strict clearance guidelines around her music, gave quick approval to Harris’ campaign when they sought permission to use “Freedom” on Monday — just hours before she walked out to the song, the source added.

  5. 5.

    mali muso

    Got an email from the Harris campaign with a link to new merch. Gonna do a little shopping this morning. :)

  6. 6.

    Suzanne

    if we can live laugh love our way out of fascism, i’m down

    This is a genuine LOL.

    A thought I had this morning while on my run: if Joe Biden’s last major act in public life is to tee up Kamala to blaze this trail (yes, mixed metaphors, it’s early)….. what a fucken legacy. He’ll deservedly be remembered as one of the greatest Americans of this era.

  10. 10.

    artem1s

    Harris needs that role call vote. It will help reveal any ratfuckers who want to kneecap her off the ticket. And it takes care of the Ohio problem. DO NOT TRUST LaRose. DO NOT TRUST DeWine. DO NOT TRUST the Ohio legislature full of scorpions to take you across the river.

  12. 12.

    mali muso

    @WereBear: Maybe it’s coming in the future. :)  I am eyeing the Kamala mug that has the photos of her in pantsuits of all the colors of the rainbow.

  13. 13.

    Nukular Biskits

    Posting mobile while traveling  …

    Good mornin’, y’all!

    And WTF is Baud?

  16. 16.

    Scout211

    A little jackal treat: Maggie Haberman is already in mourning for her cushy stenography gig and six-figure book advances:

    Thanks for the sad Maggie tweet, AL.  I love (not really) how reporters fill their reporting with qualifiers that make them never ever wrong.

    Maggie: “ . . . that could have a very different effect on the polling . . . it may not”

    Way to keep your on-camera gig, Maggie.

  17. 17.

    Frank Wilhoit

    Yday’s headline over at Digby’s place: “The Democrats Are Healthy, The Republicans Are Sick”. What this neglects is that sick people win, because they make more noise.

  18. 18.

    narya

    I love how the Biden/Harris team weaponized the R’s racism (and the big-money-bros’ racism and hubris) against the Rs and Bros. Joe knew she could do the job, and, once the writing was on the wall, they figured out a plan to make it happen in a way to maximize the effect and cut out the Bros. The Rs never thought he would step aside (because TCFG NEVER would), and neither the Rs nor the big-money bros thought Kamala could just step into the role; the latter wanted their Sorkin fantasy too much to be able to conceive that THEY wouldn’t be in charge of it. Also, Mags: suck it.

  19. 19.

    hrprogressive

    The phone charger image is apt, because it really does feel like a shit ton of people are feeling energized and charged up with Harris as the close-enough-to-presumptive-nominee.

    Her speechifying is already solid as hell.

    She’s really going to provide a stark, stark contrast to Convicted Felon Donald Trump.

    I would love to see a 2008-style result to mirror the musings about 2008-style energy.

  20. 20.

    SFAW

    My morning e-mail feed tells me that the “liberal” Boston Glob has an editorial saying that Dems should “let the competitive process play out.” In other words, an open convention.

    Yet another reason why I stopped subscribing. They might be more liberal than the FTFTFNYT, but if so, not by much. Although I don’t believe they have fucked over President Biden the way the FTFTFNYT has.

  22. 22.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @Nukular Biskits: One might suspect that Baud felt that Baud!2024! jokes weren’t quite appropriate to the high-anxiety times. The time for Baud’s pants-free agenda for the future is when tempers have cooled down a little, I think.

  24. 24.

    WereBear

    It is so weird to see Lara Trump on Fox clips painting Trump as the populist choice “all these billionaires kicking in for Harris…”

    AS IF.

  25. 25.

    bbleh

    I think my fave part of her speech to campaign staff was when she said (something like) “I know his type.”  Her whole face changed — you could see the steel underneath.

    There have been various stories he’s not happy with this.  I can see why.

    It’s gonna get ugly though.  You think the racism and sexism is showing now?  Just wait …

  26. 26.

    Nukular Biskits

    Joe Biden has been the best president in my lifetime, even if there were (and still are) some things I wish he’d have addressed differently.

    And I fully believe Kamala Harris will be an even better president!

    Anyone who wants to differ can fight me Saturday when I’m hosting my neighborhood WhatsApp group “SATURDAY NIGHT DRUNK MEMING AND MUSIC SHOW!”

    🤣🍺

  33. 33.

    VOR

    I’m keeping my fingers crossed that the switch to Harris is made official quickly. Very glad Manchin and the No Labels crowd were given the cold shoulder and not allowed to spread dissent. We need a unified front to take on the Republicans. IMHO the Media showed their hand too – they are not neutral, they are biased in favor of Trump.

    They say the most important job of a CEO is to pick their successor. Biden has done that.

  35. 35.

    Josie

    @narya: ​
     I can’t help wondering who exactly the bros had in mind to replace Biden. They were obviously working for someone, but who?

  39. 39.

    Splitting Image

    I assume that when Habermann complains about Biden not campaigning until a few weeks ago, she means primarily that he wasn’t giving any interviews to the New York Times. If Biden had given them a dozen interviews, they would have accused him of neglecting his duties.

    I’ll be mighty glad to see the day the Times tells her to clear out her desk.

  40. 40.

    bbleh

    @Josie: @narya: my first guess is, Republicans.  Joe is too progressive for them.  And I would guess rather than a TV fantasy they just wanted chaos: they assumed Dems would collapse into our usual infighting.

    Their political instincts have never been much good imo.

  41. 41.

    Eyeroller

    @Josie: Probably they wanted (mostly white, maybe Wed Moore would be allowed as a token) governors.  The goal was to get rid of both Joe and Kamala since Joe’s approval ratings were low, and they thought that would attach to his entire administration.  They literally wanted those people to audition in some form but apparently couldn’t agree on the format.

    But Joe outsmarted them.

  43. 43.

    Starfish

    @Nukular Biskits: When the crazy of election season takes over the comments section, Baud takes a vacation from this website and goes to prepare the Baud 2028 campaign.

  47. 47.

    TBone

    Living well, loving who you love, and laughing in fascist’s faces is the best.  Justice will come to we who have been waiting so patiently for it.

  48. 48.

    Splitting Image

    @Josie:

    I can’t help wondering who exactly the bros had in mind to replace Biden. They were obviously working for someone, but who?

    I saw one person on Twitter suggest Jamie Dimon. I don’t think they necessarily had a specific person in mind, but they definitely had a type.

  52. 52.

    Suzanne

    @MisterForkbeard: Agree! I always want the campaigns to make fun sports-related merch, like wicking T-shirts or something.

    Still! I have a small yard! A sign will be great!

  54. 54.

    WereBear

    Mr WereBear and I were going to make a donation, now we will indulge in merch.

    I did get the “azalea” Cat Ladies for Kamala t-shirt with the raised cat paw. Really cute. I’m assuming that’s the dark pink in the photos.

    That’s the one to wear to the coffee shop this summer.

  55. 55.

    kindness

    Maggie Haberman can go suck all the eggs.  She’s the NY Times new Maureen Dowd, and that isn’t a compliment.

  56. 56.

    TBone

    @WereBear: damn, I’m so tempted to buy another T-shirt today but will wait until I get my pink one 🩷 to see how the quality is.  My Gritty on a lawn tractor Four Seasons Not the Hotel T-shirt is really good quality but the seller was not Etsy.  Proceeds went to Georgia.

  57. 57.

    narya

    @Josie: Newsom, maybe? I know that Newsom himself kept vocally supporting the Biden/Harris camp, but I have no clue who they think could just step in and actually get the support of the people on the ground who do the work–because they don’t SEE the people who do the work. Bros think their money is more important than that. Also, picking Newsom would block Harris, because they’re from the same state, so the bros would get a twofer. Again: the Bros’ racism and hubris ended up being a weapon that Joe and Kamala could use.

  59. 59.

    Shalimar

    Waiting for some Dem to say, “We believe in freedom from gun violence, and also the right to wear a tampon on your ear if you wanna.”

  60. 60.

    geg6

    All my energy, money and efforts that were going to Biden are now transferred to getting Bob Casey reelected.  I have not been a huge Harris fan, but will certainly vote for her.  But not with any great enthusiasm except the hope she’ll beat Cheetolini.

    As for here, I have a list of people who I will never interact with.  I’m not ready to make nice and, true to myself, probably never will be.  I’m here for John Cole and the front pagers.  Probably won’t be commenting much, if at all, after this.  I have too much going IRL to put up with the disrespect and abuse some commenters have been flinging (and still are) and the rah rah get on board crap.  I’m retiring in two months, have a partner who is experiencing significant cognitive decline, just moved, a brother in an induced coma after a fall two weeks ago, a sister with Crohn’s who has been in and out of the hospital with a pneumonia they seem to have never seen before, another sister with vertigo so bad she can no longer drive (so I have been taking care of all her errands)  and another recovering from breast cancer and chemo.  I have enough to worry about without coming here and being condescended to.

    You all have fun with your party.  Glad you’re all so happy and joyful.  I’m not so I’m taking myself out.  Maybe I’ll be back in January.  We’ll probably all need to band together then anyway.

  61. 61.

    artem1s

    @bbleh: 

    they assumed Dems would collapse into our usual infighting.

    They assumed the Dem convention would look like the GOP trying to elect a Speaker of the House. Projection. Always projection.

  62. 62.

    bbleh

    @rikyrah: Lol it just occurred to me, I’ve stopped even looking at that paper anymore.  I look at the WaPo and CNN for my MSM dose.  The NYT is just beyond the pale at this point.

    Just from the (admittedly biased sample of) reactions I’ve seen over the past month or so, I would not be at all surprised if their page views were down sharply.  And that’s their oxygen supply, so they keep a close eye on it.

  66. 66.

    WereBear

    @rikyrah: This highlights something that I would hope would matter: the incredible contrast in professionalism the Democratic Party is exhibiting.

    Compared to the WWE show the Republicans seem set on embracing.

    So the corporate press has painted themselves into a corner with normalizing the truly grotesque. People feel that unease, and then decades of unearned trust start to erode.

  67. 67.

    Cacti

    Making Trump, his troglodyte running mate, and his cult lose to a multiracial, liberal, California woman would be the most sublime political experience of my life.

  69. 69.

    Ken

    @Scout211: I love (not really) how reporters fill their reporting with qualifiers that make them never ever wrong.

    Sports reporters are slightly up on news, because they will commit to their predictions, although that may only be because they’re deep in “well duh” territory — “For the Chargers to win this game, they’re going to have to outscore their opponents”, that sort of stuff.

  72. 72.

    NotMax

    Here’s a thought which avoids vacating a Senate seat.

    Doesn’t Senator Kelly have a twin brother? Also with command experience?

  74. 74.

    eclare

    @rikyrah:

    That is almost Sarah Palin level word salad.  Not crazy enough to be TCFG, no sharks, no Hannibal Lecter.  Sad.

  78. 78.

    Suzanne

    @Cacti: I am already seeing gossip that the Trump campaign wants to replace Vance and BWAAAAHAHAHAHA get bent motherfucker.

  81. 81.

    Ken

    @MisterForkbeard: Still getting a yard sign. at minimum.

    I’ve seen several pictures of people who have simply cut off or folded back the top part of their BIDEN / HARRIS 2024 signs. Seems a reasonable stopgap until the HARRIS / BAUD 2024 signs are available.

  83. 83.

    SatanicPanic

    I’m genuinely excited for this election. I know it’ll be close, but I’m excited.

  85. 85.

    eclare

    @geg6:

    Good luck with everything sounds like such a small thing to say to all of the difficulties you’re facing, but I do wish you good luck.

  86. 86.

    Suzanne

    @Ken: I always take my old yard signs and hang them up in my garage, so I don’t want to cut any of them! I’ll just buy a new one.

  91. 91.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Starfish:

    In some of respects, Biden is/was ahead of a LOT of other Dems, particularly when it came to same sex marriage

  93. 93.

    Josie

    I saw a great t shirt on the Etsy site that said “Vote like Ruth sent you.” Pretty sure when I get my retirement check I’m buying that one.

  97. 97.

    Martin

    I want to see a poll on Harris/AOC. What would going all-in on generational change look like? Does AOC energize latino voters and young voters as much as I think she would? If the goal here is to build a groundswell of voter energy, I don’t think you can do better than that.

  101. 101.

    schrodingers_cat

    @geg6: We haven’t always agreed on everything. I will miss you. I hope you keep commenting. If you are on X or bluesky I would like to connect with.

    And you are not alone in feeling this.

    As for here, I have a list of people who I will never interact with.  I’m not ready to make nice and, true to myself, probably never will be.

    These people present themselves as experts from geriartrics to data analysis to racist dogwhistles. They will not listen, just gaslight you and abuse you and call you names. FPer after FPer is writing how we need to be nice to them. That’s what’s galling.

    Good luck with everything.

  102. 102.

    Suzanne

    @dmsilev: That is incredible. Shared.

    Spawn the Elder just texted me: “All of the Kamala memes in the last 48 hours really have me reeling”. It’s significant.

  104. 104.

    Scout211

    @geg6: Sending you strength and hugs (if that is okay). Please take care of yourself and head back here when you feel ready to do so.  ❤️

  105. 105.

    Suzanne

    @geg6: I’m sorry for everything you’re going through. That’s a lot. Please take care of yourself. We’ll be here if you want to come back.

  108. 108.

    Nukular Biskits

    @geg6:

    My mobile posting doesn’t allow me to address your post with anything but the briefest manner.

    You have a lot on your plate  … don’t not take care of yourself

  113. 113.

    Mousebumples

    @geg6: oh yikes. Best of luck to you and your family. I’ll miss you around here, and I’ll hope to see your comments again when you’re ready to return.

  114. 114.

    rikyrah

     

    The VP will be speaking at the Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc. convention in Indianapolis this week. I get chills just thinking about how she is going to be received, now that she is the candidate FOR PRESIDENT. The energy in that room will be CRAZY👏🏾👏🏾

  116. 116.

    Anyway

    To me Pres JoeyB modeled how to move forward with his gracious, smart, strategic, wholehearted  endorsement of KH. His call to the campaign team was a great demonstration of how to move forward and full of LFG energy. I too was in despair on Sunday afternoon but now it’s time to win this thing and beat the Orange Menace and Rthugs up and down the ballot.

  117. 117.

    TBone

    Morning mood music to counteract the roofers on one side, and the pneumatic air guns and generator noise on the other, polluting my neighborhood this morning.

    🎶 My theme for Kamala cutting through the bullshit:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBjKCs5yHsc

    The roofers also have a gawdawful country music radio station blaring 😖

  119. 119.

    WereBear

    @Martin: Don’t put too much pressure on the gifted. Let AOC thrash some Supreme Court justices first.

    FWIW, Mayor Pete is the house pick here. But Andy Beshear might be enough of a “wild man” for this ticket, since Harris will be our attack dog for us, and that is what we want.

    They will want a softer side, and he’s got young children, and I think that adds some balance points. If such a thing still applies in the modern era we are entering with the century, it seems.

    Plus, she has the Cat People vote sewn up for the Dems. Who has a dog? We might need that balance more :)

  120. 120.

    BritinChicago

    @Nukular Biskits: President Biden was in Washington when the supply-side/ trickle-down nonsense took over and has seen its destructive effects. He’s been speaking out against it and articulating a different vision. The lack of a real majority in the Senate (Manchin, Sinema), and then the loss of the House, prevented him from doing all that much to implement it—he was able to do some important things, but not the major changes to tax policy that are needed.  But his articulating a different vision is immensely important. Harris may (I hope, though don’t really expect) be able to more to implement it, but I have to give him a lot of the credit. Thanks, Joe!

  121. 121.

    Suzanne

    @Martin: I sorta-kinda-jokingly suggested AOC for VP yesterday. I think she could be fantastic. But I think she’s a generational talent and will be successful wherever her career path takes her.

    Right now, my personal leaning is Buttigieg, in part because of the generational change issue. And because I love watching him eviscerate his opponents. He’s good enough that the moments go viral and that’s basically free advertising.

  126. 126.

    SatanicPanic

    Trump’s attempts at giving her an epithet are even lamer than usual. Lyin Kamala- ok liar man. Laffin Kamala- oh no she’s having fun. 🙄

  132. 132.

    JPL

    @Suzanne: I haven’t been on much of late, but have been wondering what you think about Shapiro?  Personally, I want Prizker only because  he might call a Vance an asshole.   Okay, I admit that shows how much I dislike the trump/vance team.

  133. 133.

    coin operated

    @Martin: I keep going back to your comment of Pelosi being the architect behind the handover. I’d pay good money to know who Nancy Smash is OK with.

  135. 135.

    Soprano2

    My kitty Gary is really sick. I took him back to the vet yesterday. The vet gave Gary some more subcutaneous fluids, and gave me some antibiotics and steroids to give him to try to stimulate his appetite. The vet said he’s seeing signs of jaundice from him not eating. He ate a little bit of tuna last night, but didn’t want to eat anything this morning. I’m afraid the feline leukemia is causing a spiral that he can’t come out of. If he doesn’t start eating in the next couple of days I’m afraid I’m going to lose him. I always thought I wouldn’t have him as long as most cats because of the feline leukemia, but I never thought it would happen this soon. Maybe he’ll pull out of it, but I’m not feeling optimistic right now.

  137. 137.

    Suzanne

    @SatanicPanic: “Lyin'” is recycled, too! He called Ted Cruz “Lyin’ Ted”.

    He’s losing his edge. Maybe he needs a neurological examination. Result: asshole.

  139. 139.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Eyeroller:

    But Joe outsmarted them.

    Yes he did! Funny how the experienced old guy could do that. Particularly impressive how he orchestrated things in the midst of getting shivved by the press and some in his party. Also shows what a gracious man he is, in paving the way for his successor.

  141. 141.

    Bupalos

    I understand the feeling that it’s undemocratic that the party and ultimately Joe Biden switched gears after the primary. If I thought this was the action of a few power players or “the media” I’d consider it a bad sign for democracy too. And if I wasn’t seeing the cognitive decline everyone is talking about (and we all see these things differently) I’d likely feel gaslit. As someone said on a different thread “what’s obvious is obvious to you.”

    Without going in to my version of obvious, let me note something I didn’t find obvious but see indistinctly now: Democracy isn’t just voting. It’s an entire civic ecosystem. And what the party and Joe Biden just mustered the strength to do was in fact a very good sign for our party and our country. That sounds odd or maybe crazy if we narrow democracy to voting, and further to voting in a particular election within the party selection process.

    This would take too long to flesh out. Let me just point to a couple broad questions;

    Would something truly undemocratic unleash the kind of broad positive energy and democratic engagement we’re seeing?

    If Joe Biden felt this was undemocratic (not unkind, undemocratic) would he respond to it by ultimately releasing his grasp on power and working for the good of the unDemocratic party?

  142. 142.

    TBone

    @Jeffg166: oh damn, please don’t slag on my beloved beer-drinker-on-a-Tuesday-morning, fighting-corporate-greed Senator, aaarrgghhh. He knows every County in our Commonwealth AND represents his constituents by actually listening to us!

  145. 145.

    Eduardo

    @Suzanne:

    if we can live laugh love our way out of fascism, i’m down

    I literally — in the old meaning of literally — LOL’d when I read it.

  146. 146.

    Suzanne

    @JPL: I have been very impressed with Shapiro so far! And, really importantly, he seems to have broad appeal here. There’s much to be said for consensus picks.

  147. 147.

    NotMax

    @Suzanne

    Veep is a strange job. Ranges from a do nothing and wait position to one with specifically assigned areas of promoting administration policy, but limited only to those.

    If Buttigieg is gonna move up I think he’d be more comfortable in a more unconstrained position where he can stretch his wings across a smorgasbord of areas, such as ambassador to the U.N.

  148. 148.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @NotMax: Aaron Sorkin script. Not just brother, not just twin brother but identical twin brother.  They did time in space at different times presumably because they’re identical twins.

  149. 149.

    bbleh

    @Martin: argh! I RILLY think she needs a nice, safe, male running-mate with impeccable whiteboy credentials.  Mark Kelly, Andy Beshear.  Like Obama-Biden.  I think misogyny and racism — both  the overt pig-people variety the MAGAts sell and (even more importantly) the quiet, latent, “well I just don’t know about …” variety that is spread VERY widely in this country, particularly among older voters — will unfortunately figure very importantly in this election.  I think Harris is a bright enough signal to younger voters, especially when contrasted with the Felon.  We definitely want to activate younger voters who were turned off by Biden-Trump 2, but we don’t want to scare away, ah, “traditional” voters who are still Dem-friendly

    @narya:  plus Beshear speaks Christian FLUENTLY.  And he can out-hillbilly Vance without breaking a sweat.  And he’s handsome.  And (sigh) he’s straight.  And also, he’s termed out.

    @JPL: I like Shapiro, but I dunno whether he’d want to do it.  He’s got a good day job.  And also — hate to say it — but he’s Jewish, so he’s an Other, and, alas, that’s gonna figure a la the above.

    I don’t like catering to soft, latent bigotry, but I REALLY don’t wanna lose to OVERT bigotry.  Lesser of two evils.

  150. 150.

    BritinChicago

    @Nukular Biskits: Thanks!

    To add line: the details of the tax-code are boring, but absolutely crucial. I have an idea of what Joe wanted to do. His line was: “No one making less than $400K a year will pay more”, but there’s a clearly implied and very large BUT after that…. I doubt he would have gone as far as I would have liked (and the $400K figure is too high, really) but the changes he wanted would have been a bit step towards a fairer and more just society. I hope Harris is able to make them.

  152. 152.

    TBone

    @Soprano2: hugs and well kitty prayers my dear sweet friend.  You’re doing so well by your loved ones, I hope you find peace and comfort in your great love. Get well Gary!

  154. 154.

    WereBear

    @Soprano2: I’m so sorry to hear. But maybe he’s telling you something, too. Maybe it’s time to take the pressure off both of you.

    When we lose someone special, it’s always too soon. And somehow, the temporal measure doesn’t matter as much, as all the good moments we shared. That’s what the two of you can talk about now.

    I wrote this post in case it helps with this. My heart is with you.

  157. 157.

    George

    FTFNYT and mag habs. They are simply trying to fabricate a false narrative, the effing gaslighters. I saw a headline for a FTFNYT podcast titled “The Coronation of Kamala Harris.”

    Those people aren’t dumb. They are malicious. Pure anti-democratic evil.

  158. 158.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @geg6: You are dealing with so much, it must be overwhelming. I am sorry. I also understand the hurt and anger. Please take good care of yourself and come back if and when you can.

  163. 163.

    Nukular Biskits

    About to take off so goin’ into airplane mode.

    Y’all be sweet.

    And for those who are deliberately choosing to be one, stop being a dick.

    (Question: can “dick” be used as a unisex epithet?)

  164. 164.

    geg6

    @Jeffg166:

    He has supported everything Biden has done and with enthusiasm.  He’s a true and loyal Democrat, always on the right side.  No need to hold your nose to vote for him.  He’s a mensch.

  170. 170.

    Suzanne

    @NotMax: I’ve read gossip that Buttigieg wants to be governor of Michigan, too. He’s another one with a bright future and many potential paths to success.

  171. 171.

    Anyway

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Why would AOC want the job?

    I agree. Lots of other positions for her to grow and get experience. Her being  considered for the VP slot is silly.

  172. 172.

    Ken

    @Suzanne: Maybe he needs a neurological examination. Result: asshole.

    If you’re referring to the position of his head, the medical term is “cranio-rectal inversion”.

  173. 173.

    eclare

    @narya:

    I saw both Beshear and Cooper interviewed on MJ, and I thought Cooper came off better.  I know, very short interview, but still.  Plus like you I think Beshear needs to stay in KY.

  174. 174.

    TBone

    @NotMax: thank you again, I’m too frazzled by neighborhood noise pollution to look that up!  I love someone who knows the proper!  I just had to listen to God Bless Texas courtesy of the roofers and, despite my love for Texas having been a former resident, I’m not ready to make nice with the fascists govt. there today!

  176. 176.

    geg6

    @JPL:

    Saw a report today that he polls at over 60% job approval in the state.  Not easy to do here in Pennsyltucky.

    And now, I’m really done for a while.

  178. 178.

    Starfish

    @Bupalos: I am pretty offended by the “I’ve been disenfranchised” people because it makes light of true disenfranchisement, and it refuses to acknowledge that the whole political structure is bizarre and disenfranchising.

    Usually, the discussions of this type of “disenfranchisement” leads some tech weenie to go on and on about RCV and STAR voting systems, and then I want them to STFU.

    Whenever I tried to discuss the merits of candidates with tech cowards, they would turn the conversation into “let me talk about voting systems instead of engaging with the issues,” and it was always so infuriating.

  179. 179.

    frosty

    @geg6: I’ll miss your comments but you have a lot on your plate. Too much to spend the amount of time here that I do.

    Glad you’ll be working for Casey. My plan has always been to focus on getting rid of Scott Perry down here at the bottom of the “”T”.

  180. 180.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Geminid: I suspect this is the case for most of the people who pushed this mess, whether they admit it or not.  Not just famous podcasters.  And given the really glaring racial divide on who supported it vs. who wanted to stand with Biden, I think it’s entirely fair for black voters to see the whole thing as a little not-so-subtle reminder to them by white liberals/progressives, of who’s still in charge.  No matter how good the Replacers claim their intentions were, or how well it works out, the black people I know and follow see it as a betrayal and a White-Supremacist power move executed on the Dem side.  And they can’t/won’t unsee it, or forget about it any time soon, no matter how much we all unite to win this election.  Doesn’t mean they aren’t thrilled for Kamala, they are.  If FSM-willing, Harris wins it still won’t change the fact that MLK’s warnings about White Progressives are as true as ever, as this whole debacle has made crystal-clear.

    That said, Let’s Go Kamala!

  183. 183.

    eclare

    @bbleh:

    Agree with you about Shapiro, he’s an other.  We already have two others at the top of the ticket as Doug is Jewish.

    It’s depressing but true.

  184. 184.

    different-church-lady

    Yeah, I suppose Maggie must be a little concerned by what happens when we stop firing the cannons into our own boat.

  185. 185.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @geg6:

    I’m so sorry you and your loved ones are going through all that. I’m also really sorry to see you leave — you have long been one of my favorite commenters here. But I understand your reasons. I hope things settle down in your personal life, and I hope you’ll come back here when you’re ready to rejoin the Jackaltariat. Take care of yourself.

  186. 186.

    Gretchen

    @geg6: I’m sorry you’re dealing with all that. It’s a lot. I hope you are able to spare some care for yourself. It’s hard.

  187. 187.

    Eyeroller

    @eclare: All available evidence suggests that it was a last-minute decision, but Biden is such an experienced politician that he pulled it off.

  189. 189.

    Suzanne

    @Starfish: My gripe about our primary system supposedly being democratic is that the same small states always go first or early, and then candidates drop out depending on the results. So by the time most people get to vote, the field has narrowed. I feel like we either need to have all the primaries on the same day, or switch up the order of the states each cycle.

  191. 191.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @eclare:

    Agreed. This was not an overnight decision or rollout. Kudos to Joe and his entire team for handling it so deftly and graciously, and to Nancy for whatever her role was in this plan. (Two Olds, being effective, imagine!) It’s clear that the PTB wanted to oust Kamala too, and Joe out-maneuvered them. Delicious, really.

  192. 192.

    Ken

    All this speculation about Harris’s VP pick is reminding me of 2016, when the pundits were demanding that Clinton pick someone with gravitas. Or maybe that should be “a gravitas”, since it was pretty clear from the way they were using the word they meant “penis”.

  193. 193.

    WereBear

    @bbleh: My raging liberal Midwestern relation agrees with you. Since friends and relations and our own circles create these perceptions.

    Also an Episcopalian and since our coalition includes “unbelievers” or so I was told here recently, a more Unitarian approach might help the doubters.

    I know, I know, how can people believe in Jesus and Trump? MAGATs just switched their object of worship, encouraged by Republicans buying the party and the preachers.

    They are the ones to make hypocrisy cool.

  195. 195.

    schrodingers_cat

    No one is talking about her but Massachusetts governor Maura Healey would make an excellent VP. As the AG of MA during the Trump she bought many a lawsuit to keep Trump Administration from destroying everything in its path

    We can’t really afford to lose a purple state governor or senator.

  197. 197.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @eclare: I firmly Biden is controlling a lot of this process, even though it may have started out as a coup and an attempt to push him offstage. There’s so much about it that’s so well timed and strategic. I suspect he lined up all the endorsements before the announcement as well.

  198. 198.

    Fair Economist

    @geg6:
    Sorry you have to deal with so many tribulations in you personal life. Bob Casey is a good Senator and I’m glad you’re working to help him.

  200. 200.

    Eyeroller

    @O. Felix Culpa: I don’t think that is true.  While one shouldn’t necessarily believe what one sees on Xtwitter, at least one ground-level Democratic activist said it was last-minute and entirely due to Joe’s acumen.

  202. 202.

    Starfish

    @Suzanne: I think small states need to go first for the simple reason that the candidates have not raised money to build up infrastructure to run their campaigns in all the states at that point.  I like the idea of mixing it up a little so different small states get to go first each year.

  203. 203.

    Soprano2

    @geg6: I’m sorry to see you go but I get it, you have to take care of yourself. I hope you’ve found a FB support group for spouses of those with dementia; I know mine has helped me a lot, it gives me a place to vent and say stuff I couldn’t say elsewhere because no one else would understand. Also sounds like you have a shit ton of other RL awfulness going on, you don’t need any more stress in your life. I hope to see you back here in the future.

  204. 204.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Josie: i listen to the Julie Mason show.on the  Sirius XM(POTUS channel) pretty regularly. She has all sides on so its not a RW show.  She has Chris Sununu, Asa Hutchinson and Scott Brown on on a regular basis. All three.have been saying since at least late last year that Biden is not going to be on the ticket. How would they know? This has been bothering me since the drumbeat of getting Biden off the ticket but I figure there’s GOP ratfucking going on here. The OBros were just on in the pile on, kind of like you would sometimes see the Clinton people diss the Obama folks.

  213. 213.

    Martin

    @bbleh: I RILLY think she needs a nice, safe, male running-mate with impeccable whiteboy credentials.  Mark Kelly, Andy Beshear.  Like Obama-Biden.  I think misogyny and racism — both  the overt pig-people variety the MAGAts sell and (even more importantly) the quiet, latent, “well I just don’t know about …” variety that is spread VERY widely in this country, particularly among older voters — will unfortunately figure very importantly in this election.

    I think this is a losing way of thinking. Trump is SO polarizing that any voters on board with him are ride or die. You can’t swing them with white boy. And anyone not on board are not on board. Yes, a strong contrast ticket will challenge them to turn out, but white boy isn’t going to motivate them and no ‘well, I don’t know’ is knocking doors for any Democrat – they’re voting reluctantly no matter what.

    The thing that got Obama past the racists was the energized base working their ass off. And wasn’t that really the Democrats core problem with Biden at the top – there wasn’t an energized base. That’s what the $100M in the last 48 hours came from – that change. And Clinton did win the popular vote, with a less well defined Trump and no Dobbs ruling to rally women.

    It seems to me this moment is about a changing vision of America. It’s about that cultural moment that I keep talking about. Who does this country belong to – white boys which is who the GOP represents or women, POC, everyone who doesn’t identify with the white boys (which includes white boys like me). I don’t think you light the Democratic base on fire by reassuring women and POC that you’ll keep looking out for the white boys. Stop being afraid of the electorate. You have Dobbs to counter the ‘only a man can run the country’ bullshit, and the country is 12 percentage points less white than in 2008. Use Trump as the anvil against which hammer home this idea of a diverse, multicultural America. You can’t pick a better anvil than that.

    I think we win with a Democratic voter base that is fucking MANIC, that is so goddamn energized that the NYT bullshit can’t even break through because it’s impossible to miss how fired up we are. I cannot express how not exciting any of the white boys are because what fucking cultural change do they represent? Another ally? That’s not what we need – we need representation. We need women, and POC, and latinos to take their fate in their goddamn hands and RUN with it. And that’s what this moment feels like. All of that dread and fear of a Trump win that permeated this place the last month contains a lot of fucking energy if you find the right candidates to funnel it though. I don’t think Behsar does shit. Or Kelly. But AOC gets my social anxiety daughter knocking doors.

  215. 215.

    Anyway

    @Suzanne:

    I am already seeing gossip that the Trump campaign wants to replace Vance and BWAAAAHAHAHAHA get bent motherfucker.

    I  got a great kick out of this too – Cheetolini’s campaign is stuck in 2015

    ETA – Vance and that group of Rs only know Ds as stereotypes and Faux News scary archetypes – it’s like the know no Real People

  219. 219.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Eyeroller: If I understand you correctly,  Joe’s deftness in setting Kamala up for success is true, but that he did it in a short time frame. Even more impressive.

  221. 221.

    Kathleen

    @artem1s: I cannot praise DNC Chair Jaimie Harrison enough. In the face of Ohio Rethug Effery  and internal Dem chaos he has maintained his focus on making sure the candidate would have i’s dotted and t’s crossed. This has been a daunting task and he has not missed a step.

  223. 223.

    E

    I want her to pick someone I will be stoked to vote for in 2032 after we’ve successfully turned the corner on climate change. Somebody young and sharp and not white.

  224. 224.

    catothedog

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    No matter how good the Replacers claim their intentions were, or how well it works out, the black people I know and follow see it as a betrayal and a White-Supremacist power move executed on the Dem side

    The hidden assumption in politics, an unquestioned, but unobserved reality. Like “this is water”. White privilege.

    There is a pining for “benevolent white rule” to come back among whites across the board.

    Both parties in the US were built on a platform of benevolent white rule.  The lines were different of course, one was more racist than the other.  And while there was general racial progress over time, liberal racism was and is still an unquestioned fact of life.

    But now we are in a place where one of the 2 parties – the Democrats – are having an internal debate on the white privilege of power.  There is no consensus  within that party on what will replace it;  and it’s not yet completely sorted out.  But  white privilege is being questioned.

    The other party is now explicit about white privilege, where it was implicit before. The political process since Obama has simply made this fight  come out of the woodwork. Quite explicit and in your face now.

    The fundamental assumption under benevolent white rule is immoral, and defense of this immorality is impossible by moral means. Immoral principles have to be defended by immoral wars.

    The media is fighting for a restoration of  “benevolent white rule” as the unquestioned and hidden fact of the country. Why? Because most of the media is white. 

    All of the media (led by the f**king NYT) believes that once white privilege is re-established as the status quo, the Republicans will put fascism and racism back in the box, and we will go back to the days of gentle liberal racism and the arguments will only be over economic policy.

    The real danger is that fascism and racism wont go back into the box , even if  white privilege is re-established as the unquestioned status quo. But that does not matter to whites.

  225. 225.

    bluefoot

    @geg6: ​
      I’m so sorry for everything you’re dealing with. I am sending you and your loved ones good thoughts. Please take care of yourself, in whatever form that takes. I will miss your comments and your presence.

  228. 228.

    eclare

    @Capri:

    He and Chasten bought a house in MI in Chasten’s hometown (name escapes me) to be near relatives.  He is a MI resident.

  229. 229.

    Eyeroller

    @O. Felix Culpa: They may have had some framework in existence just because I think any campaign ought to have a succession plan, not just for old candidates (cough assassination cough, or something else unexpected).  But everything I’ve seen suggests that Biden cut the “open convention” people off at the knees with his strong and immediate endorsement and possibly cashing in some political chips.

    Some big names quite noticeably were very slow to endorse.  But a lot fell in line immediately.

  230. 230.

    Matt McIrvin

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    No matter how good the Replacers claim their intentions were, or how well it works out, the black people I know and follow see it as a betrayal and a White-Supremacist power move executed on the Dem side.  And they can’t/won’t unsee it, or forget about it any time soon, no matter how much we all unite to win this election.

    I follow a bunch of black progressives on Mastodon who are basically the complete opposite: they were preparing to urge people to vote for Biden because it was necessary, but they were deeply skeptical about him and were tired of white liberals coming back with furious “Trump is worse!” comments when they expressed these feelings. And right now they’re deeply relieved and fired up about Kamala Harris stepping up, and see this as an expression of true leadership on her part–even if they don’t agree with everything she’s done.

  232. 232.

    Nelle

    @Cacti: One of the nastiest retorts I’ve seen here.  Completely destructive of community and an insult to what Cole has built here.

  234. 234.

    WereBear

    @catothedog: Is the the source of “they are just saying that to get elected” which has always baffled me entirely.

    I still don’t know why people want a tainted thing so much they will taint all of their other things to hide it.

  235. 235.

    Soprano2

    @Geminid: They were promoting some kind of insane mini-competition at the convention. I listened to some of their latest this morning, and they admitted it was too late for something like that. They sound a little wistful, but maybe that’s my spin on it. I tweeted at Favreau that I hope they’re right and I’m wrong, because at this point we’re all in at what they wanted.

  236. 236.

    topclimber

    @WereBear: Considering all the different kinds of cats out there, from tabbies to tigers, I expect there will be a lot of fun Cat ladies for Kamala shirts.”

    Good one, JD. Did you learn nothing from the whole Dark Brandon thing (born of a let’s go Brandon meme coined by the right).

  237. 237.

    Fair Economist

    @Bupalos: Actually, yes, I think Biden would have stepped down no matter how unfair he thought things were if it improved the chance of beating Trump. I think that’s true of basically all our top pols.  That’s the reason we have seen such an overwhelming consensus for Harris. A lot of the potential candidates are making a significant personal sacrifice – Newsom, Whitmer, and Pritzker – because they’ll be termed out soon with nowhere to go politically and that’s hard on their careers. But I doubt any had significant hesitation because they know the stakes.  Biden would absolutely put the country ahead of his ego and feelings; that’s a lot of what we love about him.

    I think the media owners are surprised at the competition standing down because like Republicans they can’t imagine putting the country ahead of personal gain.

  239. 239.

    Mousebumples

    @JPL: ABC is saying it’s between Shapiro and Mark Kelly.

    Considering they had no clue any of this was happening, I think that’s wish casting. Not saying it can’t or won’t be either one, but I’m hoping Harris is keeping this locked down tight until it’s announced.

  240. 240.

    Suzanne

    @Martin:

    It seems to me this moment is about a changing vision of America. It’s about that cultural moment that I keep talking about. 

    This is the sense I have, too. I think some identity issues — gender, age — have been more activated in recent years. The vibe of the moment is different.

    For a long time, we’ve tried to emphasize to young voters that “voting is a chess move” to try to make them feel more on board with candidates who they don’t feel great about. But they are over there on TikTok absolutely freaking out about Kamala. They’re building that energy. I feel like we should lean into this.

    Every generation wants to make history, right? To see themselves reflected positively, to see their aesthetics in the broader culture.

  242. 242.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Biden’s superpower is how people always underestimate how great he is at this politikin’ stuff.  Whether or not it was last minute or in the works for a week+, how it’s been handled is damned amazing.

    Also too, and I would have lost money on this bet, one of the loudest, card carrying members of the Horseshoe Left I know on twitter has come out in support of Harris, her neoliberal economic stances notwithstanding.  I would have expected her to find any reason to not vote for a Dem.

    Okay, one person doesn’t represent the entirety of the Horseshoe left but their opinion is pretty representative of the lot so that bodes well.

    And the fact that the CBC got behind Harris damn quick also sent a message to actual Democrats.

  243. 243.

    eclare

    @Martin:

    You would run a third term rep as ready to be president if something happened to Kamala?  I vehemently disagree.  Let her get some more experience, she is fantastic, she is going places, but now is not her time.

  245. 245.

    WereBear

    I understand a lot of people look back fondly on their youth from varying angles but I don’t.

    We’re writing new rules now. With the convention so close, I’m sure they have a good idea of what is needed.

  246. 246.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @MomSense: I would be grateful if you would read comment #283 in John’s Monday Night thread.  I would like to think that reconciliation in a hurting and broken world is possible.

  250. 250.

    ArchTeryx

    Can’t get rid of me, I guess. I’m just sorry if I pissed anyone off with my panic (with the exception of a certain unnamed sealion troll). I’ve lived a very hard life, but it did have one small positive effect: It didn’t turn me into a reactionary fuck, it turned me into a die-hard liberal that is going to be proud to vote for Kamala Harris for president this November. Whatever else happens, I will have zero regrets in doing it.

    And when I do it, it’ll be with a “This one’s for you, President Biden.”

  252. 252.

    Eyeroller

    @Matt McIrvin: ​Other commenters may have better information than I have, but the reaction on “Black Twitter” seems to be the opposite. Anger at the nearly all-white step-aside brigade, happiness/relief that Harris will be the nominee, lingering suspicion about white voters. But maybe “progressives” is the keyword there. I am sure that black berniebros are a thing.

  253. 253.

    Scout211

    NBC  has “sources.”

    WASHINGTON — Vice President Kamala Harris’ presidential campaign has requested vetting materials from five possible running mates, according to two sources familiar with the effort to review the backgrounds of those being considered.

    The five Democratic vice presidential contenders are North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper,; Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro; Sen. Mark Kelly, of Arizona; Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer; and Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz.

    . . .

    Two other possible names under discussion include Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker and former Rep. Cedric Richmond, of Louisiana, who has served as a Biden-Harris campaign co-chair, one of the sources said. It’s not clear if the two received vetting materials.

    NBC News has reached out to all of the potential picks.

    Sources didn’t say whether Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear, who was considered another possible pick, received vetting materials

  254. 254.

    M31

    Beshear is fine but you know, there is no need to refute or counter Vance, Vance is such a loser shitheel that he’s self-countering.

    So no need to pick anyone on the ‘need to address the Vance issue’ because V is addressing it just fine lolol

    “Demonrats call Diet Mountain Dew racist, amirite?” HurrDurr, flopsweat, please clap

  257. 257.

    oldgold

    I think Shapiro makes the most sense. I think he takes Pa. off the table – which is huge. Generally, he is damn solid.  Likable, good campaigner, good energy with a “can do” reputation that the normies will get as the bridge story is told.

    The only downside is he might hurt in Michigan, but as a VP candidate – not much.  And,  I think Harris can fix that problem.

  260. 260.

    Starfish

    @Matt McIrvin: The Mastodon people are wild and unrepresentative. There was this one Black dude who would always drag Biden every day from something close to a communist perspective.

    There are a few people there who post too much who I think are amazing.

  261. 261.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Fair Economist:

    Newsom, Whitmer, and Pritzker – because they’ll be termed out soon with nowhere to go politically and that’s hard on their careers…

    Not necessarily.  As somebody said a couple of weeks back, Newsom (who I really dislike) would sell his grandmother to become president but his behavior in all of this has been good, team-playing Democratic stuff which people like me will remember down the line.  I digress.  Many of these folks will potentially go into a Harris Administration, that’s basically a SOP.  Thus, their political careers aren’t over, they’re simply adding something else to the CV.

    Ex-governors, no matter what one thinks of their policy stances and track records while governor, are particularly well suited for Cabinet-level positions at the Fed level.

  263. 263.

    Citizen Dave

    @rikyrah: Walked through the site a little bit ago.  6,000 blue-clad ladies coming.  You are correct, gonna be amazing!

     

    I want a t-shirt with Kamala’s question to Brett Kavanaugh: Can you think of any laws that give the government control over a man’s body?

  265. 265.

    different-church-lady

    @Mai Naem mobile: ​Well, of course there is GOP ratfucking involved. But smart ratfuckers are going to ratfuck at a genuine weak point. It’s possible they just chose the most logical weak point to bullshit on, and then got lucky it fell that way.

    There’s also the part where they ratfuck and we react so badly that it turns into gaslighting. There’s no question the whisper campaign fed the over-reaction to the debate. “Biden won’t be on the ticket” becomes “OMG, what if they’re right about that?” far to easily which then becomes, “OMG, Biden can’t be on the ticket!” It’s like the Jedi Mind Trick except there’s no trick, we just volunteer.

  266. 266.

    danielx

    Oooh, sustained sad trombone for Haberman and the FNYT editorial staff. They were getting all fired up for a “Dems in disarray!” frenzy and it didn’t happen. Now they have to figure out how to attack Harris without looking like racist sexist shitbags and that exercise is SO exhausting. They might even have to (horrors!) discuss and contrast policies and you know how boring that is.

  270. 270.

    kindness

    Morning laugh anyone?  Over at Mock Paper Scissors they link to a The Hill article where they list that Joe Manchin stated that he would refuse to be Kamela’s Vice President.

  271. 271.

    Soprano2

    @Starfish: I also think they were hearing from every panicked Dem insider on every campaign. They were overloaded with panic on all sides.

  272. 272.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @danielx:

    Oooh, sustained sad trombone for Haberman and the FNYT editorial staff.

    I’ve always said that when The Revolution commences, the first two places I’m visiting are the residences of  Larry Summers and Matt “The Turd” Yglesias.

    Mr and Mrs Greenspan were next on the list but Maga Habs is giving them a run for the money.

  273. 273.

    bluefoot

    @UncleEbeneezer: ​

    @catothedog: ​
     
    This is where I am. I was/am not blind to Joe Biden’s negatives nor his debate performance. But how the last 3-4 weeks went down politically I think in large part were pushed (consciously or not) by white freak out. A lot of people have shown who they really are, and what they’ll do when push comes to shove.
    I am thankful that Biden and his team are good enough at politics that this didn’t devolve into utter chaos. It could have been so much worse. And I’m thankful that Kamala Harris will be the nominee. She is the only alternative that made any sort of legal and political sense. But I don’t discount the racism and misogyny that will be major factors in the election.

  274. 274.

    Bupalos

    @hrprogressive: It will be interesting to see the contrast, though I fear opportunities for that direct contrast may not emerge.

    I’m among those that think she’s underrated as a political prospect overall. But her problem has been that her personal magnetism that comes through very powerfully in smaller and less formal venues doesn’t come through as well in more formal speeches and settings. At the worst it makes the later seem fake.

    I saw a “cooking dosa with mindy kaling” segment where she is radiating warmth and authenticity well beyond a popular and charismatic actress. Then in formal speeches she seems like a competent and smart person, but a different person. I think she maybe learned she had to do that but it’s a different ballgame now. She has to translate some more of her personal superpower into her job. That’s what Obama could do, and Bill Clinton, somehow the same dude swishing 3’s in pickup basketball is thundering “we are not not red America and blue America, we are the United States of America!”
    I think it’s really important for her to seem like the same person. Somehow the goofy charm and sick dance moves have to talk to America about post-truth despots and that has to be the same person and more “real” than Trump.

  277. 277.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: Well, he says he’s had a couple of cognitive tests. Somehow the press never asks him why he took them in the first place, seems strange to me.

  278. 278.

    Hildebrand

    Not that this is at all surprising, but these last few weeks have really revealed the media (especially the big names) and far too many folks, like the Obama bros. to be fatally addicted to vibes and optics.  Yep, I know, this is like saying water is wet, but this has ripped off their masks in such a way that might actually be good for all of us.

    We kept hoping, like the media kept hoping that Trump would finally sound ‘presidential’, that these folks would find their integrity and do their jobs.  But this has shown us that these big names must be left behind – they care nothing about what is right, only about the bottom line.  Again, we knew this, but it didn’t change our behavior.  This has really just exposed them for the carnival barkers that they are – and we have found the ability to walk away from the lot of them.  If we can deprive them of what they want more than anything, eyeballs and therefore money, then we will succeed in forcing the whole business to evolve.  It won’t happen overnight, but I think this is an opportunity to do something that helps us all.

  280. 280.

    different-church-lady

    @bluefoot: ​

    I am thankful that Biden and his team are good enough at politics that this didn’t devolve into utter chaos. It could have been so much worse.

    It did devolve into utter chaos. But they yanked it back up out.

  281. 281.

    Scout211

    @Martin: CNN says 10 people have been asked.

    Better “sources”  I guess. LOL.

    Eric Holder’s firm is doing the vetting.

    Oh, and thank you all for responding so well to my question in the late night thread asking who had vetted the Vance guy.  I had fun reading all of the replies.

  283. 283.

    Suzanne

    @Eyeroller: I think age cohort is also a thing. Apparently Biden’s polling was showing a significant erosion of support relative to his 2020 numbers in three groups: young voters, Black voters, and Latino voters. Probably a fair amount of overlap there.

    I also see a varied range of opinions on Xhitter, but I always have to remind myself that Xhitter isn’t real life. Just because someone says something for clicks and it happens to cross my feed due to some algorithm….. doesn’t mean it’s genuinely influential or representative.

  284. 284.

    snoey

    @Martin: Pretty sure that some of those are being asked for political ego stroking etc. reasons rather than being actually considered.

  286. 286.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @kindness:

    That’s akin to “You can’t fire me.  I quit!”

    I’ve said this before but I thought Liebermann was the most insufferable, self-absorbed, head-up-his-ass ex-Dem Senator in my lifetime.

    Mansion has now taken that mantle.

  287. 287.

    M31

    @bluefoot: “it could have been so much worse”

    I think that was the plan — if not a Manchin-type replacement for Biden, some kind of chaos that discredited all of Biden’s accomplishments (middle/working class progress; climate change stuff, regulations, etc.)

    and I do think Joey B fucked them good and hard and I hope that Harris keeps it up, smiling and shivving all the way, those fuckers

  288. 288.

    Martin

    @eclare: You would run a third term rep as ready to be president if something happened to Kamala?

    Against a reality TV star and a guy who wrote a shitty book – yes, I would. The 3rd term rep has more experience than the two of them combined.

  289. 289.

    Citizen Dave

    @oldgold: Didn’t know much about Shapiro but agree.  A good choice.  I assume Whitmer will campaign hard in Michigan.  I’d be great with her or Pete.  Beshear to me is too low profile, and I think it’s weird to consider someone from a state with Mcconnell and Rand Paul as senators.  Beshear barely won one of those races, if not both (on mobile so too hard to check).

    Cooper I don’t know much about, except the Rs there neutered his power.  Also, he gives me W flashbacks in looks.

  290. 290.

    different-church-lady

    You wanna know just how much this move has helped things? Campos at LGM has remembered that you’re supposed to amplify dumb rumors about your opponent instead of your own side.

  292. 292.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Martin: ​
      Okay, we can accept that anyone who takes the jobs is patriotic. I am talking about why a 34 y/o would want to take a position that will leave four to eight years of her resume blank. She is in a position to move up in the House ranks and/or run for senate when Schumer steps down in a few years. With her talents, I would argue that she can do more in those positions that she could as VP. Sidelining upcoming talent isn’t a good idea.

    Harris taking the VP job is a different kettle of fish. She had a resume that let her credibly put her name forward for the top job. As a result, VP marked her as heir presumptive to the D nom. and gave her a leg up in any future primary. Or what happened could happen with an old guy in the top job.

  294. 294.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Starfish: As much as I love Mastodon, the general vibe there is so out of touch with the expats out of Black Twitter (lots of European tech nerds to whom they might as well be from Mars) that a lot of them can’t stand it for long. Just *staying* there when you’re very noticeably Black probably means you’re exceptional in some way. Maybe exceptionally stubborn.

  295. 295.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Matt McIrvin: Who?  I’d be curious to see names.  I’ve only seen that sentiment from Black Progressives like Killer Mike, Brianna Joy Grey, Nina Turner, Ice Cube, Marc Lamont Hill etc., who always shit on Dems.  They are mostly Bernie Bros and Independents who use terminology like the “Dem Plantation.”

  296. 296.

    Jackie

    @narya:

    How about Roy Cooper? Is he already off the list?

    Cooper’s on the short list, and it was mentioned on Rachel’s special last night, that Kamala’s made several trips to NC recently, and that she “really likes him,” whatever that means.

  298. 298.

    different-church-lady

    I don’t know who the VP pick will be or should be. But I know one thing: it’s the next opportunity for various fucks to send us back into the doom loop. Be prepared and don’t fall for it.

  300. 300.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Eyeroller:

    “Black Twitter” seems to be the opposite. Anger at the nearly all-white step-aside brigade, happiness/relief that Harris will be the nominee, lingering suspicion about white voters.

    Black Twitter is filled with connected black activists and writers who are very much in-tune with what the base of the Democratic Party is saying, feeling and doing.  I’m on there for that very reason.  Casually dismissing them as non-representative of anything simply because it’s twitter isn’t smart.  They know their shit and know most black people who know even more shit.

  302. 302.

    Ken

    @Suzanne: I am already seeing gossip that the Trump campaign wants to replace Vance

    If we can get enough people saying “I’m very excited about Vance, he’s so young and dynamic compared to Trump”, we can make this happen.

  304. 304.

    Soprano2

    @WereBear: Thanks, that’s touching. I feel like I want to try for at least a couple of days because he’s so young, but I’m trying to be realistic. I once sat at the vet’s with my mother, with both the vet and I desperately trying to talk her into letting go of a much-loved but very sick cat. She kept saying “but he’s still eating”, and she refused to let go. That cat lived several more months, but I think his quality of life was quite poor.

  305. 305.

    H.E.Wolf

    @eclare: ​
    @H.E.Wolf:
    Love that acronym! My postcards to swing states have shipped. And I also got my school bus stamps.
    LFGOTV!

     Thank you for motivating me to deploy some of my school bus stamps in the coming week!

    I’ve been focusing on data entry/database cleanup this month, so it’s time for postcard DEI: Doggedness, Elbow grease, Ink splotches.

    (Don’t worry, I have the correction-tape dispenser at the ready.)

  306. 306.

    topclimber

    @geg6: You sure don’t need the stress. Hopefully life and/or your ability to deal with it improves. Come back when you are ready.

  307. 307.

    different-church-lady

    @ArchTeryx: He’s still a complete idiot. Yesterday he’s all “Oh, look how well Dems handled it all.” We just went through three weeks of the most significant dysfunction in modern politics and just because a handful of people managed to engineer a miraculous recovery that’s everything working perfectly?

    A week from now he’ll be amplifying every take about how the VP pick is a catastrophe.

  308. 308.

    Martin

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, fair enough. I think the question can also be reframed as where are the opportunities for someone on the left margin of the caucus. Senate may not be where that opportunity lies, and Jeffries is going to run the House for a generation.

  311. 311.

    WereBear

    @Matt McIrvin: There’s a niche for everyone, and it’s a bit techy for some. But it is growing all the time and I’ve met the loveliest people there.

    Once operating it isn’t daunting it will grow further, I think. It operates communally, but you need a big enough base to commune with.

  313. 313.

    raven

    US Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle has tendered her resignation amid scrutiny of security lapses related to the recent assassination attempt of former President Donald Trump, sources tell CNN.

  314. 314.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Soprano2:

    A vet once said:

    “You don’t have to wait until an animal is suffering; the best call is just before the suffering starts”

    Old cats are the best and it’s so hard letting go.  It never gets easier and lord knows we’re poster childs for that repeating process.

    But that quote, once we heard of it, has always driven our subsequent actions with the legion of kittehs we’ve had and how to treat the sad few that reached old age.

    Good luck and keep us posted.  Good times and bad.

  315. 315.

    bluefoot

    On a personal note: Aside from deflecting fascism and continuing the excellent pro-American, pro-“regular” people agenda of the Biden administration, I am SO fervently hoping to see to the looks on my Black-Asian American Californian nieces faces when Kamala Harris becomes president. She will, literally, be someone like them.

  316. 316.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @George: Media-manufactured concerns against the Dem candidate (Biden) and now pearl-clutching about “Coronations” (Harris)…boy we really are getting a replay of all the 2016 classics.

    Thanks Bernie-Bros!

  319. 319.

    PST

    @Bupalos:

    Without going in to my version of obvious, let me note something I didn’t find obvious but see indistinctly now: Democracy isn’t just voting. It’s an entire civic ecosystem. And what the party and Joe Biden just mustered the strength to do was in fact a very good sign for our party and our country. That sounds odd or maybe crazy if we narrow democracy to voting, and further to voting in a particular election within the party selection process.

    There is a famous treatise on the U.S. political system called The Party Decides: Presidential Nominations Before and After Reform. Published in 2008, it is a little outdated now, but I think the central argument is as true as ever, and we have just seen an outstanding demonstration. The authors believe that despite the reforms starting 50 years ago that expanded the role of primary elections, the real fight remains winning the “invisible primary” for prominent endorsements and the support of interest groups and party leaders. This produces frontrunners and narrows the choices that remain for the voters who tune in late. No doubt social media and Citizens United have affected the central role of the parties, but I think party establishments still get their way most of the time. Trump might be the great exception, triumphing as an outsider until he finally captured his party’s establishment, but the Democratic Party, at least, is so broadly based that we all have opportunities to participate as more than just voters. Lots of us do, and that is a good thing.

  320. 320.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @different-church-lady:

    A week from now he’ll be amplifying every take about how the VP pick is a catastrophe still be one of the three complete dicks at LGM who could do us all a favor and get off the internet to focus on suing his employer of civil rights abuses.

    Another take on him.

  321. 321.

    Bupalos

    @E: I think she should make an aggressive pick FOR HER CAMPAIGN and with only that in mind. VP isn’t really the best platform for future runs and those aren’t the chickens to be counting here.

    I fear for the coalition when I hear the NO MORE WHITE FACES stuff. I think non-white voters were much better served in concrete ways by President Biden than President Obama. Though “concrete ways” aren’t the only ways.

  322. 322.

    Ken

    @Scout211: NBC  has “sources” [saying 5 VP candidates]

    @Martin: CNN says 10 people have been asked.

    Although now is not the time, it occurs to me that an administration might run a canary trap to identify media outlets that run stories without confirmation.

  324. 324.

    different-church-lady

    @George: ​There’s no longer any question they’re colluding. The only argument is about their motivation.

  326. 326.

    Suzanne

    This, to me, is the interesting question:

    As the nominee, Harris could alleviate Biden’s most intractable electoral problem—his erosion of the support of younger and nonwhite voters—but she could also potentially squander his greatest remaining political asset, his continuing support among older and blue-collar whites. What makes this moment so nerve-racking for Democrats is that they have no sure way of knowing whether Harris could gain more with the former groups than she might lose among the voters that Biden brought back.

  327. 327.

    Matt McIrvin

    @UncleEbeneezer: Much more pragmatic than those people. The ones I read who are most vocal have been Mekka Okereke, Dare Obesanjo, Black Aziz Anansi and the formidable and brilliant [email protected] (who is so sui generis that it would be foolish to take her as representative of anything). Lots of techie people and of course there’s more spread in the opinions than I’ve implied here.

  333. 333.

    NotMax

    @different-church-lady

    Reminded of a classic moment from a film noir whose title escapes me right now. When “dick” meant private eye.

    “Is he a dick? He sounds like a dick.”

    “Oh, he used to be a dick but he’s not a dick anymore.”
    :)

  338. 338.

    Eyeroller

    @Suzanne: ​The problem is that younger and nonwhite voters are overall the least reliable turnout demographics (Black women being the exception). Older white people have by far the highest turnout rate.

    That is why the VP is going to be some nonthreatening white dude.

  339. 339.

    Bupalos

    @narya: This really wasn’t a failed conspiracy. Politics is way more complicated than the kind of thing being proposed here, and Harris was always the most likely outcome.

    I personally would have preferred some kind of process that tested our available talent, but largely agree that was not really possible now and became improbable in 2023 when Joe made his fateful decision.

    may preference for that is solely about beating Donald Trump which is both not terribly likely and so many miles from the difference between dem candidates that I find this whole frame of reference to be distortive. I agree people like Obama and Pelosi were clearly wanting to at least leave a door open here. That’s not a product of intel-party policy preference, it’s because of opinions about how to win.

  340. 340.

    tam1MI

    @Capri: Pete’s from Indiana.  Would he establish residency then run?

    Pete is now a resident of Michigan. He moved here a couple of years ago. As a fellow Michigander, I would be happy and proud to vote for him to be my governor and just as happy and proud to vote for him to be Vice President (or one day even President).

  341. 341.

    HeleninEire

    @geg6: Oh gosh; that’s a lot to deal with. Please take care of yourself. Hope to see you back here whenever you are ready and able.

  342. 342.

    NotMax

    @TBone

    May well have been. Honestly, drawing a blank at the moment. Whole bunch of films amalgamated into a puddle of noir.
    ;)

  343. 343.

    Soprano2

    @schrodingers_cat: That’s why I think it needs to be either someone from a more liberal state or someone who’s already term limited out so their seat is going to be filled by someone else already. I understand the appeal of Mark Kelly, but that’s risky because even though he will be replaced by a Democratic governor there’s no guarantee another Democrat can win that seat in a special election.

  346. 346.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @bluefoot: That will be so exciting! I’m cautiously happy for them in advance.  :)

    If we’re playing fantasy Veep, my choice would be Pete. Still slim on experience, especially foreign policy,  but he’s whip smart and absorbs knowledge like a sponge. Plus watching him eviscerate JD in a debate would be SO much fun.

  347. 347.

    Soprano2

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:  I suspect he lined up all the endorsements before the announcement as well.

    I think they were definitely a condition of him dropping out. At that point he held all the cards. I think he wanted all of the infighting to end, and everyone to agree to coalesce around Harris.

  350. 350.

    Bupalos

     

    @geg6: That’s an awesome use of your energy. We need players all over the field and I get it, I had much the same feeling about Biden, when you feel like the bottom will fall out of the bucket you don’t want to pour your water in there. We have a lot of buckets to fill.

    wishing you the best with what sounds like a really challenging time.

  351. 351.

    Eyeroller

    @Soprano2: No special election for Senate.  The appointee fills the term.  I think Kelly would be up in 2026.  However, the concern remains over who might be able to hold it even then.

    Edit: California has some kind of law that made the appointee run in something like a special, but that seems to be unusual.

  352. 352.

    Josie

    Somewhere I read that Harris’ people were saying they would switch from relying on the midwest to going with the southwest. That means Mark Kelly would be their choice.

  354. 354.

    Ghost of Joe Liebling’s Dog

    @geg6: I can’t imagine that simply wishing you good luck can do any good, but I hope that things improve, and that you take care of yourself.  It’s the easiest thing to forget, but if you don’t, it’s much harder to take care of everything else.

  355. 355.

    SatanicPanic

    I’m a Chicano man and I disagree with the idea that it’s white people who wanted Biden to step aside. I’m surrounded by liberals and PoCs and I really haven’t heard any excitement for Biden, really ever besides a few old white people. Maybe it’s because I’m from California but he really felt foisted on us by people from other parts of the country who were so worried about racism and sexism that they went with a safe choice. Which I get. And maybe because I’m from California I’m not as worried about those things. And I did grow to like Biden. But making this all about white supremacy seems wrong to me, especially since he’s been replaced by a woman of color. I think if you say this IRL people will think it’s weird.

  357. 357.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @geg6: oy, you have a lot going on. I hope you find some joy. I’m not having much myself lately. Be well.

  358. 358.

    Bupalos

    @O. Felix Culpa: I think I’m on Pete too. It would be an incredibly aggressive move and not without risks. But he’s an incredible talent and I prefer going hard on offense here.

    Not done thinking about the strategery though.

  360. 360.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Ivan X: good to see you too. Just by luck I was in time to follow the links to geg6. I’ve been skipping most of the conversation these days.

  361. 361.

    Kay

    @SatanicPanic:

    I think if you say this IRL people will think it’s weird.

    I know this is sincere but I lol’ed
    We are pretty far past “in real life” at this point. That was like 20 miles back.

  362. 362.

    gwangung

    @UncleEbeneezer: Amen.

    Things can be mended if folks keep this in mind. But for black folks and marginalized people, the feeling of here-we-go-again is strong. They’re rightfully suspicious and on the look our for more patronizing attitudes.

  364. 364.

    lowtechcyclist

    @narya:

    I want that as a t-shirt. I’m not usually one for merch, but I’d make an exception.

    Oh goodness, me too!!!!

  368. 368.

    SatanicPanic

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yes, I understand that a lot of white politicians were calling for him to step down. Which is understandable because most politicians are white.  But… Biden is white tho too.

  370. 370.

    Eyeroller

    @Omnes Omnibus: It also was very much not a given that Harris would consolidate support so quickly.  The media and some of the other forces involved here wanted an open convention with “auditions” of some form.  Some of them, including some donors, explicitly wanted to get rid of Harris as well.

  372. 372.

    Bupalos

    @Omnes Omnibus: “calling for” does a lot of work there. This was a movement of the vast majority of pols and likely more than half D voters, and a bunch of donors. Basically the entire party apparatus and people like Obama and Clyburn mostly kept their heads down but were really not encouraging Biden to stay. To say the least. The politics of who raised their hand is a lot more complicated than the reality of who knew the answer.

    we’ll know more later.

  373. 373.

    SatanicPanic

    @Kay: The disconnect is sometimes jarring.

    I mean, tell someone that replacing a white guy with a Black/Asian woman is a move by white supremacists and I think you lose 90% of them right off the bat. They’re not going to wait around for the explanation of backroom deals and rich donors and what not.

  374. 374.

    Kay

    Some reporting on what happened. There’s a lot of it now. WSJ has a very detailed piece. No Democrats are denying any of it (because it’s obviously true).

    I’m not really comfortable coming completely unmoored from the news. I don’t think that’s a rational response to the NYTimes shitty political reporting. What are we going to replace it with? Our own narrative? That seems like a bad road.

  375. 375.

    KatKapCC

    @topclimber: Also, forgive me for complimenting her, but Dowd can be funny occasionally. During his whole mess, she called George Santos “The Untalented Mr Ripley” which made me LOL.

  376. 376.

    Betty

    @TBone: Yes. He is low key and works for his constituents. His focus on the elderly and people with disabilities is important but doesn’t get headlines.

  380. 380.

    Soprano2

    @Martin: I want to believe you are right. I know we can’t get any MAGA voters, but I do worry about the “squishy middle”, who are the voters I believe sank Hillary. I worry about the “I’ll vote for a woman/black person/Latin person/gay person but not that one” people. I hate it, but that’s still out there. OTOH, this morning I heard a reporter on 1A mention “Reagan Democrats”. I sent them an e-mail saying most of those people are dead, you need to figure out a better way to say it!

  381. 381.

    Kay

    @SatanicPanic:

    Agree. I’m afraid what seems to be the complete rejection of all news sources – and thus relying on people with big Twitter accounts and opinions – just leaves an awful lot of room for preferred narratives that back up prior positions.

    The evidence is overwhelming Pelosi was behind it and it was for two reasons that are connected – she grew hugely concerned with age related decline and she believed that would mean there would be essentially no campaign. Obviously Obama backed it too, which (of course) puts paid to the idea that this was “white”. I love how Obama has just been erased from the narrative because his involvement doesn’t fit.

    The Democratic Party is the only rational governing entity left. We cannot leave reality too.

  382. 382.

    Soprano2

    @Anyway: I love how Vance has already told everyone who hasn’t actually had biological children that they have no stake in the future of this country. If that’s the kind of attack they think will work then they’re even more pathetic than I thought they were.

  383. 383.

    Tenar Arha

    @geg6: Oh my that’s a lot. Best wishes for you and your family. I hope you get a chance to take some time for yourself when you can. Keep us in the loop if & when you can. I will be thinking of you.

  384. 384.

    eclare

    @frosty:

    NC governor’s term ends this Jan.  He is term limited, he’s out.   That’s one reason why I like him.  Shapiro and Beshear need to stay where they are.

  385. 385.

    Soprano2

    @MomSense: They were talking about it two weeks ago on Pod Save America. Not the exact Sorkin thing, but having some kind of “beauty pageant” at the convention.

  386. 386.

    Betty

    @geg6: Sending prayers your way for some let up with all these crises. I am on!y dealing with one of them and find it exhausting. You will be missed. I hope you can return before long.

  387. 387.

    Geminid

    @Jeffg166: Bob Casey Jr. carried Pennsylvania by 600,000 votes in 2018 and I thought that was notable. Those voters weren’t all holding their noses.

  388. 388.

    Eyeroller

    @Soprano2: We still have to get a certain fraction of white voters and a lot of those, especially older ones, have higher turnout rates than the other demographics.  It’s just a fact.  Mark Kelly has a compelling bio (astronaut! gun-control advocate! from Arizona!) so I think he may have the inside track.  But I’ve heard he’s not good on labor issues, for one thing.  There’s also the concern about somebody who could hold the seat assuming we win.

  390. 390.

    gvg

    @geg6: Wow, that is too much. I am sorry all that is happening at once. Take care of yourself. Good luck.

    If you do drop back, use the pie filter liberally. There is simply no need to stress yourself. Life is too short to waste on certain things unless its your actual job.

  391. 391.

    Suzanne

    @Eyeroller:

    The problem is that younger and nonwhite voters are overall the least reliable turnout demographics (Black women being the exception). Older white people have by far the highest turnout rate.

    Agreed. Thats why it’s an interesting question.

    But that’s also why I find Martin’s theory of generational change really intriguing. I might even share it. A few years ago, I remember listening to AOC talking about her preferred strategy, which was “turning non-voters into voters”. That’s a hard and risky thing to do, but potentially with huge payoff.

  392. 392.

    AM in NC

    @geg6: In case you read the thread before you go, I’m sorry to see you go. I am absolutely sending you strength to deal with the huge array of challenges you have going on in your life right now.

    I know that all of us jackals here are wanting to see a better America and a better future, and that we were all horribly scared at what the GOP is doing and where we are as a nation and a planet. And fear often manifests as anger.

    I was on your side in this argument – I wanted Biden to stay because he was so fucking effective in the job, and I thought every comment about his age was a self-fulfilling prophesy, and harming Democrats, and a strategic error.

    I didn’t engage at all in the commenting, because I know I would have spoken from fear and anger.

    NONE OF US had any way of KNOWING which path (stop attacking Biden and rally to him vs. replace Biden) would be better for a victory. We still don’t. We never will.

    I am just going to try to offer kindness to people here and IRL. I am going to work hard for all of the Democrats, now and moving forward.

    I am really sad there was such ugliness toward each other here. People feel scared, justifiably scared. Not an excuse; I’m just trying to understand what happened.

  393. 393.

    SatanicPanic

    @Kay: I was told over at the GOS that polls are meaningless propaganda. That the AP, WaPo, the NYT, CNN, even the Guardian are all propaganda outfits for the billionaire class. And it’s like, OK, maybe, but I had the same question- how do we know anything then? Facebook? TikTok?

    The only guy I was told I could trust was Alan Lichtman and his 13 keys. I’m like… that’s insane. I don’t want to do that.

  394. 394.

    Kay

    @SatanicPanic:

    According to the WSJ Pelosi became concerned when there was a bad Biden meeting with House Democrats in 2022 and then there were no more meetings with House Democrats. There was a wide belief that they were seeing too little of Biden and that just exacerbated suspicion, which then pinged media into their belief that there was a story here. The refusal to do interviews just made media double down, because now they really had something. So a long, long build up.

  395. 395.

    Eyeroller

    @Suzanne: I don’t think we are completely there yet.  Late Boomers/early Gen X are in prime voting years and lean conservative.  Gen Z is very small and may be hard to engage (not the first generation to be so).  Millenials, who are older than most people seem to think they are, seem to be ambivalent.

  397. 397.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @AM in NC: People feel scared, justifiably scared. Not an excuse; I’m just trying to understand what happened.

    That’s my feeling too.

  398. 398.

    eclare

    @Betty:

    He is a little old, 67, but to me he’s the most logical choice as if selected he won’t cost us a seat anywhere.  Also a former AG in NC.  Been elected multiple times in a purplish state and got Medicaid expanded there.

  400. 400.

    SatanicPanic

    @Kay: I’d had a sinking feeling in my stomach for the first half of the year because- where was Biden? Not doing a Super Bowl interview, AGAIN? In an election year? His operation was shockingly low key when democracy is on the ballot.

  403. 403.

    Kay

    @SatanicPanic:

    The Thriteen Keys terrified me because that’s just the last refuge of poll deniers. I thought “god, their internals must be horrendous“. And, according to all the reporting that’s come out since, they were.

    I think if you’re going to throw out polls and throw out news reporting you better have something to replace that with or you’re going to end up getting your news from Twitter influencers with big accounts.

  404. 404.

    Suzanne

    @SatanicPanic:

    I’m a Chicano man and I disagree with the idea that it’s white people who wanted Biden to step aside. I’m surrounded by liberals and PoCs and I really haven’t heard any excitement for Biden, really ever besides a few old white people. 

    In my actual grass-touching life….. this is exactly my experience. The older people I know love him. Everyone under 50 is like, “He’s fine”. Yes, I understand that my social and professional circles are not a perfectly representative microcosm of the country.

    It’s interesting how much age and race are correlated. 75% of Boomers are white. But only 50% of Millennials are white. I remember a few years ago, when Arizona became majority-POC for the under-18 age cohort for the first time. Some of those kids are now voters.

  405. 405.

    Kay

    @SatanicPanic:

    I actually didn’t pick that up, which embarrasses me a little. Once I saw the debate and the appearances after I first went back and looked at 2020 and 2021 appearances and it was just very clear. It was only THEN that I realized there had not been any real campaign for a very long time. Now that Harris is out there that comparison only gets clearer – THIS is a political campaign. You see her constantly. This is normal.

  406. 406.

    SatanicPanic

    @Kay: yeah, I vaguely remembered Lichtman as a sort of election year novelty act. A weird human interest story, like the octopus that predicts the stock market. It was terrifying that he was now some peoples’ most important source. I hope I never hear about him again after this.

  407. 407.

    Matt McIrvin

    @SatanicPanic: I’ve thought Lichtman was kind of a grifter for decades. His “13 keys” are so subjective that he can basically look at where the polling stands toward the end of the campaign and adjust his “model” so that it predicts what he thinks is probably going to happen.

    And, lo and behold, he’s usually right, except when he’s not. In 2000, he predicted that Gore was going to win and when Gore didn’t win, he explained that his model predicts the popular-vote winner. And then in 2016, he predicted that Trump was going to win and when Trump won without the popular vote, suddenly he didn’t claim his model predicted the popular-vote winner any more. And he got lauded as a prophet! He’s drawing a bullseye around the bullet holes on the side of the barn.

  408. 408.

    Geminid

    @E: That is understandable, but I want the VP candidate who adds the most strength to the 2024 ticket and that consideration is paramount. This may be short term thinking but my take is that 2032 will take care of itself.

  409. 409.

    Kay

    @SatanicPanic:

    Lol. People get desperate. I was once volunteering for an Ohio candidate who was on track to lose but I was so invested I watched a “body language expert” on you tube who said my guy was going to win. But I did know better than to say to people – “here’s this crackpot body language expert I’m currently relying on” . He lost by 8.

    I never go to Kos. I’m sorry to hear they’re round the bend.

  411. 411.

    Suzanne

    @Eyeroller: That’s what makes it scary. The makeup of the electorate is always shifting, and the issues that are most salient at any given moment are unpredictable and difficult to measure.

    I do think that some politicians’ skills and qualities are just better suited to some cultural moments than others. That is uncomfortably close to just saying VIBES!!!, but vibes are probably determinative!

  412. 412.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    I don’t care – I don’t think the VP matters that much and never have – but my sense is Shapiro. That’s my best guess. Further Right than me but again since I don’t the VP matters in elections I would be fine with it. Whatever she needs to do!

    I actually like Walz in MN. Underrated as an effective Dem pol.

  413. 413.

    SatanicPanic

    @Kay: I think (and HOPE) that was a big part of his low polling. I remember the Obama years, and Obama was always someone people would talk about. What’s he up to, etc. Biden never had that level of cultural relevancy.

     

    @Suzanne: “he’s fine” and now “he’s too old.” That’s what I hear from the 30-50 crowd. Younger people don’t mention him at all. Maybe it’s different elsewhere, I don’t know.

  414. 414.

    Bupalos

    @Eyeroller: This is of course true. It’s pretty reasonable to think Harris is not our best candidate. It depends on the degree to which you think party cohesion beats getting to our best matchup, how you assess these candidates, and even how existential you think this election is.
    Where I have a problem with this line of thought is when it claims or implies these entities (like “the media”) having a single coherent will, around a coherent and generally “evil” scenario. Personally I wanted Biden out and would have preferred some process that tested candidates, but as time wore on that idea became untenable. It became overwhelmingly likely that Harris would be the result of Biden stepping aside. And I consider that a healthy and hopeful outcome as well. But if I thought it was obvious that not beating Trump meant the end of democracy, and that no other considerations mattered, I’d be more solid on a process and ideally another candidate. I think there are tons of seasoned, well meaning Democrats that share that perspective. I think Obama does. We aren’t part of a foiled conspiracy hatched by the media and fed by Republicans.

  415. 415.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It was interesting to me how Ohio political people dismissed 538. I knew the 538 method had changed but I didn’t know political people discount it now. Since 538 was kind of my “happy place refuge” from all other polling I then had to reluctantly leave that harbor, too :)

  416. 416.

    SatanicPanic

    @Matt McIrvin: Predicting Trump would win the popular vote in 2016 has to be one of the worst predictions in the history of predictions. Like, come on dude, that’s really dumb.

  417. 417.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: Harris was also out there more than Biden during the final days of Biden’s campaign, making lots of money pitches and such. I think they were preparing the way.

    None of us knew what was going on behind the scenes. You may have noticed that I mostly noped out of here when things were getting really hot. I didn’t like the way things were going with Biden, but I was afraid that if he dropped out it would be worse because we’d get the huge intra-party fight that the news media were evidently cheering for.

    You’ve all heard me say in the past that the major source of concern about Biden’s age was really fear of a Kamala Harris presidency. I now think that was an incorrect perception based on over-reliance on stuff that middle-aged and older white guys were saying about a year ago. All that “oh no, Biden is old–he’d better get rid of Kamala Harris!”

    But on the basis of that, I assumed there was going to be this huge fight to ditch Harris if we didn’t have Biden, and then there would be some desperate scramble to turn, I don’t know, Gavin Newsom or Pete Buttigieg or somebody without a huge national profile into a viable presidential candidate, which would not work and leave a lot of people in the Democratic base feeling abandoned. I really, really did not want that to happen.

    So when my wife told me Biden was dropping out and asked “What do you think?”, well, I reserved judgment. But I was surprised when there seemed to be this incredibly rapid re-coalescence of the Democratic Party into the KHive reborn by evening–a development that felt like it had been at least a few days in the making, behind the scenes. And, honestly, I think I’m more on board with it than most of us here.

  418. 418.

    E

    @Kay: I have those concerns too but God DAMN. I mean come on, CNN.com had a photo of Trump being carried by the Secret Service underneath their headline about Biden leaving the race. So Biden is a loser and Trump a survivor. Today their headlines were all framed the same way, with Harris portrayed as maybe looking good now but actually she’s not in great shape and Trump out winning something. It’s bad.

  419. 419.

    Bupalos

    @Matt McIrvin: Black turnout will be higher for Harris than for Biden. I’m willing to lay money on it against anyone saying Biden getting “stabbed” or “shanked” or “betrayed” has the particular electoral effect in the “black community” they are claiming via Elon’s magic bias confirmation machine.

  420. 420.

    Ruckus

    @bbleh:

    Rethuglicans have never in my 3/4 of a century had good political instincts. They seem to want to go back to a world that never really existed. And it shows.

    And they seem to be getting nervous that a lot of people do not seem to want to follow them. Sure it’s not an insignificant number that do, but they keep doing/saying things that piss off a rather large percentage of humans. And yes there will always be some that want what they are selling. But the differences are growing, the communications of today is showing more and more the side they actually want and it really is against a large percentage of the population – they are getting more and more out of date a the days go by. And they want the worst president of my lifetime to be their leader, a person that is a convicted felon and is aging out of life at a rather rapid pace. I sure hope that this does not go well for them.

  421. 421.

    Kay

    @E:

    Oh, I agree! You know how hard I am on political media. But they didn’t invent the series of events that got us here. They didn’t invent that the entire leadership of the D Party wanted him to step down. Pelosi is the best strategist in the Democratic Party – my husband says she’s the only one of them who understands power, and I agree with that – and Obama is the best political talent. They don’t blow up the candidate because George Clooney tells them to! I would bet real money that Clooney cleared that op ed with Obama and Schiff cleared his statement with Pelosi.

  422. 422.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: Oh, God, “body language experts”. They’re apparently fond of sussing out murderers by looking at video clips on the nightly news. That’s dangerous nonsense on the level of the people who make a career out of proving that every house fire is arson.

  423. 423.

    Kay

    @Bupalos:

    I think it’s exciting and positive for the Dem Party that she has a different map than Biden did. She can really compete in AZ and GA and NV, and we had lost that route. The future of the Dem Party isn’t the Blue Wall (much as I love the Great Lakes states). The future of the Dem Party looks like Georgia or Arizona.

  426. 426.

    TBone

    @Betty: he flies under the radar, keeping a low profile until he’s needed in the publicity dept.  When he latches on to an issue, it is always important. I love that he’s conquering social media for outreach now!

    He’s a great voice for Pennsylvania.

  427. 427.

    Suzanne

    @Matt McIrvin:

    You’ve all heard me say in the past that the major source of concern about Biden’s age was really fear of a Kamala Harris presidency. I now think that was an incorrect perception based on over-reliance on stuff that middle-aged and older white guys were saying about a year ago. All that “oh no, Biden is old–he’d better get rid of Kamala Harris!” 

    Lots of people were saying it, so not just you. I really think it’s about being old. “Too old” really meant two things. At first it was a way of saying “out of touch” or “not exciting”. And then it morphed into “genuinely physically not up to four more years”. The people who want to be able to forget about the president are freaked out by the latter thing. The people who want to meme about the president were uninspired by the first thing.

  428. 428.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Soprano2: The “biological children” attack is *such* a fascist/manosphere kind of a thing. I expect people who say things like that to start gassing on about jawline measurements and the numerically ideal hip-to-waist ratio of their tradwife.

  430. 430.

    Mai Naem mobile

    If Harris picks Cooper and god.forbid Robinson wins the gubernatorial race and NC’s  POTUS election results  go to court for whatever reason  when does Robinson take over?

  431. 431.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Suzanne: Yeah, and it’s also hard to distinguish the 2020-era “Biden has secret dementia and Dragon Lady Harris is pulling his strings” conspiracy theory from the observation that the years are just rapidly catching up with the guy, as they do to everyone unless something worse happens.

  432. 432.

    oldgold

    @Kay:  “The Democratic Party is the only rational governing entity left.”

    This is so true and why this campaign is so damn important.

  434. 434.

    AM in NC

    @frosty: NC Gov. Roy Cooper’s term ends this year, and he is term-limited from running again. He is very popular here.

  435. 435.

    suzanne

    @Matt McIrvin: Agreed. Part of what I had been thinking about was how all of us bring perceptions of aging that are very much based on experiences in our personal lives, and often those experiences are really painful and sad. It was just a shitty dynamic that I think could not be escaped.

    Glad you are back, BTW.

  437. 437.

    tam1MI

    @Kay: Agree. I’m afraid what seems to be the complete rejection of all news sources – and thus relying on people with big Twitter accounts and opinions – just leaves an awful lot of room for preferred narratives that back up prior positions.

    That was the chance they took when they led the charge to oust. Joe Biden based on secret polls and unnamed sources. The trust thermocline has been breached. They won’t get it back for a long time, if ever.

  438. 438.

    Kay

    @oldgold:

    Republicans wouldn’t have done anything when faced with this agonizing (and politically damaging) problem. They would have issued a directive that everyone had to pretend it wasn’t happening and the entire GOP would have complied. I don’t want to do that. I know it’s unfair that we have media watchdogs and they don’t. I get that. It doesn’t matter. We have to police our own Party. It has to be reality based. Pelosi took on a terrible job but she’s the only one who could have done it and it had to be done.

    Like all the worst things, this is “not our fault but it is our problem”.

  439. 439.

    SFAW

    @Ruckus: ​
     

    Rethuglicans have never in my 3/4 of a century had good political instincts.

    Southern Strategy seems to have been a winner for them. If you meant “good” as “good for the populace,” however — I totally agree.

  441. 441.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: I haven’t been paying attention to 538 for ages. I guess they were rosier for Biden than other aggregators?

    I kind of stopped obsessively following those poll aggregation sites after 2016–realized that their amazing success over the past few cycles was probably a fluke, though it seemed very scientific. The theory of averaging out random error and getting an electoral-vote count is sound. But you wouldn’t expect it to be freakishly good at predicting close presidential elections unless there are no large regional systematic errors in all the polls. And in 2016, there was a large regional systematic error across many polls in the whole Great Lakes region–the turnout models in that specific part of the country were all just wrong. That made the difference between a predicted Clinton win and an actual Trump win. 538 at least did better than most because Nate Silver spotted that there was late motion toward Trump and started raising the alarm about it.

    That kind of error is probably more the rule than the exception–it’s just that in 2004, 2008 and 2012 it didn’t happen.

  443. 443.

    Kathleen

    @O. Felix Culpa: I think Nancy played a major part in this plan. She wouldn’t let anything roll out if the “didn’t have the votes”, in this case the delegates, donors, key stakeholders, endorsements, finances all in their right places.

  444. 444.

    Eyeroller

    @Kathleen: I don’t agree, I think she was very late to the party.

    And I don’t know why Jeffries and Schumer are even later.  Some need to “interview” Kamala.

  446. 446.

    Citizen Alan

    @Josie: I honestly thought they were going to push dean phillips under the idiotic notion of “well, he’s the only person who got any votes in the primary. So why shouldn’t it be him?”

  447. 447.

    Ruckus

    @geg6:

    Best of luck and remember that life most often seems to like to come at us all at once in a big cloud of everything. Take a deep breath and do the best you can and realize that is what you are supposed to do and all you can do. We all at some time have everything coming at us from all sides. I have, everyone I’ve known has.

  449. 449.

    Heidi Mom

    @Jeffg166: He’s been a solid Democratic vote, which is not nothing.  And  he vouched for Obama in the great red middle of Pennsylvania.

  450. 450.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Josie: Well, there’s at least one bailing big donor who seems to want Joe Manchin to be the guy! Good luck with that, sir!

  451. 451.

    oldgold

     

     

    @Kay: Yes, our party had a problem that became public and acute. The party promptly and rationally addressed it with the tools and parts at our disposal.

    The other party has had an extraordinarily serious problem for 8 long years and has done nothing to address it; rather, they enabled it to fester into an existential threat to our republic.

  452. 452.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Eyeroller:

    It also was very much not a given that Harris would consolidate support so quickly.  The media and some of the other forces involved here wanted an open convention with “auditions” of some form.  Some of them, including some donors, explicitly wanted to get rid of Harris as well.

    This was my concern–I was loath to support the calls for Biden to step down because I thought it was an anti-Harris movement to swap in some younger white guy, who would have to start a presidential campaign from nil after a bruising convention fight with much of the Democratic base feeling shafted.

    My personal reason for not being too worried about Biden’s age was just that I thought Harris was a perfectly fine spare and would step in if he honestly couldn’t do the job–and, really, I’d even prefer Harris to be President. I just thought that probably other people didn’t, and the only way she’d possibly get in would be through Biden.

    The problem was that things were getting visibly bad during the reelection campaign, the worst possible time really. And at least among Democrats, there seems to have been much deeper support for Kamala Harris than I thought. The country in general–well, I’m still pretty nervous about that. It could well be that the United States simply cannot elect a Black mixed-race woman as President, and we’ll learn that the hard way. But the situation looks a lot better than it did a few days ago.

  454. 454.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    They were rosier. You would know the real language (much!) better than me to describe what they’re doing, but how I understand it is they heavily weigh “fundamentals” for their initial forecast and then gradually back that out and replace it with polling. So at the time Biden was cratering they were still heavy on “fundamentals” so had it as a coin flip. Their model would come around to everyone else but it would so so much later. Which in this situation obviously wasn’t helpful at all since we had a soft deadline of 8/7 and a hard deadline of 8/31.

    We’ve also found out since that the Biden campaign did no swing state polling the last two months prior to Biden stepping back, which is just bizarre. On that, I can’t reasonably believe anything other than they didn’t do the polling because they didn’t want to know. That bothers me, because Harris has hired them.

    This whole thing needs to be jerked back to reality based. I know everyone hates Obama bros and they’re arrogant and corporate and all that, but they do rely on data. I was sorry to see they won’t be involved. I think they would have been a check on wishful thinking.

  456. 456.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: Ah, I see. I dimly remember that they always did have some kind of “fundamentals” component in there that they’d gradually roll out as they got data–but maybe they’re leaning on it harder this cycle.

    The complexity of their model was one of the reasons I always liked Sam Wang’s version better–he was more transparent about what he was doing and it was simpler.

    But Sam Wang would also get high on his own supply. Just put in an outright fudge factor for 2004 that turned out to be a complete fantasy–if he’d just faced the numbers he was calculating, he’d have correctly predicted a narrow Bush win. And then in 2016 he started waaaaay underestimating how much of a contribution unknown systematic error might make, on the basis of 2004-2012 (Silver’s instincts were correct then).

  457. 457.

    Citizen Alan

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: No offence, but it always amuses me how this or that politician’s actual actions in real life are less important than their secret inner monologue that their detractors can somehow magically hear.

  458. 458.

    tam1MI

    @Kay: I think if you’re going to throw out polls and throw out news reporting you better have something to replace that with or you’re going to end up getting your news from Twitter influencers with big accounts.

    “Trust thermoclines are so dangerous for businesses to cross because there are few ways back once a breach has been made, even if the issue is recognized. Consumers will not return to a product that has breached the thermocline unless significant time has passed, even if it means adopting an alternative product that until recently they felt was significantly inferior.”

    Trust thermoclines. They are a thing.

  459. 459.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Ruckus:

    Rethuglicans have never in my 3/4 of a century had good political instincts. They seem to want to go back to a world that never really existed. And it shows.

    They’ve done pretty well for themselves though. Managed to maneuver themselves into total control of the Supreme Court in what was literally a 60-year master plan.

    They think the people love them much more than they do, but that’s in part because they have a narrow definition of who are really “the people”, and those people DO mostly love them.

    What Republicans understand, more than Democrats, is that blind batshit partisanship and arbitrary hero-worship are powerful, because they enable collective action. And it’s ironic because they’re supposed to be the ones who don’t like collective action. But obedience to a hierarchy of daddies is the kind they understand. We’re not so good at that because we style ourselves independent thinkers–we’re always eating our own.

    Their shamelessness also helps. If you’re obsessively pedantic about the rules when they favor you, and ignore them as much as you can get away with when they don’t, you can push a system in any direction you want.

    Where all of this fails them is that they have a certain contempt for non-political reality, and when they’re in control, reality tends to strike them down with catastrophes. But everyone else suffers as a side effect. And it feels sometimes like the only way Democrats can ever get a bit of power on a national scale is by playing Mr. Fixit after the crash. Americans run to us to clean up the mess, then cast us aside as soon as they think it’s safe to do so.

  460. 460.

    Ruckus

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    I’d go with President Biden’s age. And as an old not far behind him I actually agree. Now I’ve know people older than Joe who have everything far more under control than people a half to a third their age. And as some see age as a real controlling issue for, well everything, and that’s not all that hard to understand. We all age out at some point, and that does not mean end, it means we really want to have to do the minimum – because we’ve done the maximum and it’s tiring and we don’t have that general level of energy any longer. Now I’ve known some older than Joe who have more energy than a teenager but that’s rare. It’s like an old car with a lot of milage. No matter how well it’s cared for, it gets worn out.

  463. 463.

    DougL

    @Matt McIrvin:  probably a dead thread but I agree with your post. needed a tiny edit imho.

    And it feels sometimes like the only way Democrats can ever get a bit of power on a national scale is by playing Mr. Fixit after the crash. Americans White Americans run to us to clean up the mess, then cast us aside as soon as they think it’s safe to do so.

  464. 464.

    SFBayAreaGal

    @geg6: I will miss you. I am sorry so much is happening in your personal life. I hope you have people around you that can help relief the stress you are feeling.

    I too find it appalling how certain commentators have been such assholes to you.

    Please come back when you’re ready.

  465. 465.

    Ruckus

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Agree.

    I believe that a lot of humans follow this concept because they were told that their parents or grandparents have/had the advantage of age and wisdom, and that they will likely get there some day. But as an old the thing that is different is that we’ve seen more, if our eyes are open, which of course not all are. But also many people think that they have learned something in all their years, and many have. But many more really haven’t seen enough, mainly because they don’t know how to look, how to see reality, and to see that we all time out at some point. That it’s the next generations that will be or are running the show now. Which is one reason that the entire process sometimes feels like a runaway car with a past out driver at the wheel and their throttle foot firmly on the accelerator. Many do not trust the previous generation or two because what they have seen screams “No Fucking Way!” It’s humanity and it’s always been this way, it’s just that now many of the previous generations live longer. And as a side note, our level of communications has gone through the roof so to speak and so it may seem more chaotic but believe me it really isn’t. It’s always been this chaotic, it is after all, humanity. It was just not as obviously so.

  467. 467.

    tam1MI

    @SatanicPanic: Here is the link to an article I was talking about.

    Trust thermocline

    It mostly talks about the trust thermocline in terms of business, but it doesn’t take a super genius to figure out that it could apply to politics as well.

  468. 468.

    Quiltingfool

    Late again!  Suzanne (hi!) said something about primaries should be the same day, nationwide.  Pros and cons to that, but in Missouri, at least until 2020, our primary is in August, many months behind other states.

    I didn’t know the Mo Legislature changed primaries, because now the parties decide the presidential primary date, the state no longer is involved.  So the Democratic primary was March 23.  I didn’t vote because I’m not plugged in to Missouri Democrats (except for Show-Me Progress, hi, Michael!) and missed the date and where to vote.

    Only 18,000 or so Missourians voted in the Democratic Primary.  And, it was a closed primary.

    Missouri Republicans held a caucus.   Guess who got 100%.

  469. 469.

    Chris Johnson

    @Kay: I agree with this and agree that it’s both concerning and a really bad plan.

    Also agree with tam1Ml about the trust thermoclines, though. What I’ve seen is that starting with ‘her emails’, certain key news sources (which I think have been under financial pressure for decades since the internet hit) have become deeply untrustworthy. They act controlled, and it’s contagious, and the coordinated attack on Biden after the debate was simply too intense to be genuine… when Trump performed equally badly, in other ways.

    Hence, a lot of wagon-circling and defensiveness.

    I’d love to have major news media that’s trustworthy. It’s not NewsMax. It’s not Fox News. And to the best of my knowledge it’s not the New York Times. So where am I supposed to turn, for a more trustworthy representative? These places keep getting bought up by tech billionaires like Bezos. They’re not shy about their intentions. I’d love to see trustworthy news media, but as of just lately it seems like they don’t even need to pretend not to be propagandizing, they’re flipping the table and it’s not my table to hang on to and try to keep steady.

    So that’s where I’m at, w.r.t news. I wish I didn’t need to insist on such a hard line, but I feel I must, until somehow things are mended.

  471. 471.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Ruckus: I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. I just feel he was bullied out and I sincerely believe he would have passed the torch if TFG had been taken care of by the GOP with impeachment.

  473. 473.

    ArchTeryx

    @geg6: I do not hardly blame you for wanting to take a step back from this mess, and as a Crohn’s sufferer myself, I know what a monster that disease has to deal with. Please, take care of yourself and your own. The mess will still be here when you get back, whenever you choose to do so. Best of luck with your family.

    ((((( geg6 )))))

  474. 474.

    tam1MI

    @SatanicPanic:  could see that. You’re saying the Democratic party has broken your trust?

    Yes. The Dems haven’t reached the point of no return with me yet, but there has been a definite shift in how I regard them. Others may be further along the trust thermocline than me, but I can’t speak for them.

  476. 476.

    Ohio Mom

    @WereBear: Though I am not a pet owner (allergies), I found your Final Appointment post very moving. I am sure it is a help to your readers and that it is deservedly widely shared.

  477. 477.

    Origuy

    @Eyeroller: The governor appoints an interim Senator, but each state decides if there will be a special election. Arizona had one when John McCain died.

  478. 478.

    Origuy

    There appears to be a Black community developing on Threads. Kind of strange though, there are some people saying that Harris isn’t Black because her father was Jamaican. They only want Black to apply to people who had enslaved ancestors in the United States. As though the slave trade didn’t start in the Caribbean. Those pushing this idea appear to be Black men, although they could be Russian for all I know. Strange sort of gatekeeping.

  479. 479.

    Ruckus

    @oldgold:

    Take the other parties existential, chronic problem and how do they fix it? I see, given the folks we are talking about, one way for the problem to even start to be fixed. And I’m not saying what that is, other than they did this to themselves and to all the rest of us as well. The other party has a lot to solve and given their ingrained resistance to change I do not see them as able to solve it. Which is why it has gotten to this level in the first place. The world moves on, and they do not want it to. They have always worked against new, change, growth. They may not say it out loud but their problem is not new in the least, their problem is that they do not want to change with time and humanity. Humanity has grown exponentially and their ideals are fixed and against growth and positive change of anything other than their bank accounts. When the population was smaller it passed for working, but the population has grown and their policies have aged out. Communications, technology, abilities to create has changed dramatically – look at what we are doing now and can be done on a phone at any time and any where. Sure it’s easier to do on a computer but it can be done on a phone. That is many magnitudes different than when I was born, or even when children or grand children would have been born to someone my age. IOW possibilities are considerably different, which changes in many ways, life, what we do with it and for it.

  484. 484.

    SFBayAreaGal

    @E: Me too. I was so disappointed with Hilary choice for her VP. I saw it has a blown opportunity.

  485. 485.

    Ruckus

    OK, all of you giving up on the democratic party, what the hell is left?

    We are supposed to walk out and have what – nothing?

    Give it all back to the rethuglicans?

    Sure many of us are old and are on the downhill side – so what? We just give up because we are pissed off that it isn’t perfect? What in the hell is? Not one human, that’s for sure. I spent years making things out of metal and there is always a tolerance because NOTHING IS PERFECT. Put humans in the mix and that tolerance becomes bigger because we use brains (sometimes, most of us) to make things work. Machines are mostly consistent – humans? Not even close. Some/many are worse than not even close.

    NOTHING IS PERFECT – EVER.

    So I ask, what is wrong, do we even know? OK shitforbrains is wrong 10000% of the time. OK rethuglicans want to go back to a time that was worse – what do you expect their brains are in the same century and decade as hand cranked cars. Men were men and women shut the hell up. Do you want that? I sure as hell do not and I’m male. The world we live in often sucks donkey balls. That means we have to change it, make it better, not give the hell up. And it can only be changed if we show what is wrong and what would make it better and one CANNOT do that without working towards it.

    You think the world sucks? We have a way to discuss it, come up with ideas, hundreds/thousands of us. It’s called what the hell we are doing right this minute. COMMUNICATION. Open, forthright communication. Talking about what is wrong, how to fix it and who to get to do that. It won’t happen by itself. It won’t happen by accident, it takes work, it takes communication, it takes time. Now I know that many of us do not have a huge amount of time left, so is now the time to quit? Or the time to get involved and make it work? Because giving the fuck up is exactly what the other side wants. They’ve got bullshit and nothing else. They seem to want a world that they think will work for them and fuck everyone else. NO. DO NOT GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT. Because what they want is everything, total control and bullshit. They DO NOT deserve that in any way, shape or form. Do not give it to them.

  486. 486.

    Nancy

    @geg6:

    You have way more going on than I could ever manage. Im sorry that balloon juice hasnt been restorative for you. Also that youll probably not see this because Im only now seeing your comment. I hope you find support and peace.

  487. 487.

    SomeRandomGuy

    @geg6: All my energy, money and efforts that were going to Biden are now transferred to getting Bob Casey reelected. I have not been a huge Harris fan, but will certainly vote for her. But not with any great enthusiasm except the hope she’ll beat Cheetolini.

    So, you want her to defeat the greatest danger American democracy has ever faced, thereby being the savior of the entire American Democratic Experiment, the change that expanded freedom throughout the world, but, otherwise, meh, dullsville?

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