Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

“Alexa, change the president.”

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Hell hath no fury like a farmer bankrupted.

Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

It is not hopeless, and we are not helpless.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

The arc of the moral universe does not bend itself. it is up to us to bend it.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

If you’re gonna whine, it’s time to resign!

Giving in to doom is how we fail to fight for ourselves & one another.

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

You are either for trump or for democracy. Pick one.

Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls 2 years from now.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Dank Grey Dawn Open Thread: Trump Says He *Will* Debate Harris

Dank Grey Dawn Open Thread: Trump Says He *Will* Debate Harris

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TFG says a lot of sh*t, and my suspicion is that he’s only saying this now because he wants to pull media attention back to himself. (Given his RNC speech, I’m not sure his handlers would let him on stage again.)

Former President Donald Trump on Tuesday committed to debating Vice President Kamala Harris — and said he would be “willing” to face off against her more than once.

The next debate, which is scheduled for Sept. 10, is to be hosted by ABC News. Trump in recent days has pushed for the more conservative Fox News to hold the debate, calling ABC “a joke.”

But during a conference call with reporters on Tuesday afternoon, Trump said he would debate Harris, regardless of whether it was on ABC, and said he “would be willing to do more than one debate actually.”…

Trump said he believed Harris would be “easier” to defeat than Biden “because he was slightly more mainstream, but not much.”

Still, on Tuesday afternoon the Trump campaign released a memo from pollster Tony Fabrizio, in which he argued that Harris would see a polling bump that would temporarily put her ahead of Trump in surveys.

“Given what has happened over the past couple of days and her impending VP choice, there is no question that Harris will get her bump earlier than the Democrat’s Convention,” Fabrizio wrote. ”And that bump is likely to start showing itself over the next few days and will last a while until the race settles down.”…

(Getting the feeling that Politico, and probably most of the other Savvy Journamalism outlets, are signalling that they’re willing to change course if TFG no longer looks like a winner. Live by the narrative, die by the narrative.)


Trump Says He *Will* Debate Harris - STOCKPILE

Reader Interactions

215Comments

  1. 1.

    Martin

    I think one of the things spooking the GOP is that the weak pathetic Dems knifed their own leader in order to win without tearing him down, something they know they don’t have the courage or ability to do.

  3. 3.

    Asparagus Aspersions

    I could literally read these kinds of stories 24 hours a day. Watching Trump flail as he is confronted with full-on human decency and patriotism is just — I feel like I’m watching a vampire be exposed for the first time to the full light of day. Imagine trying to explain to him and GOP congress members that you really do need to try to hide your racist and sexist attacks behind at least a veneer of plausible deniability. They’ve spent the last eight years letting their freak flags fly and now they can’t find their dog whistles.

  7. 7.

    Jay

    @Martin:

    that the weak pathetic Dems knifed their own leader in order to win

    I don’t think it was an “Et tu Brutus” thing, more that a consensus was reached and a plan forward was arranged.

    President Joe Biden did not die surrounded by his “friends”.

  9. 9.

    Chet Murthy

    @Jay: i don’t know if this is bullshit, but supposedly the first edition of his book has a couple of pages where he confesses to couch love.  I saw a tweet with images from the book. Maybe it’s all bullshit.

  10. 10.

    Martin

    @eclare: Well, as I noted in an earlier thread, the debunking doesn’t say he didn’t fuck a couch, just that he didn’t write about it in the book. Whether he fucked a couch remains an open question.

    Showed my daughter the Diet Mt Dew speech since she’d never seen JD Vance and was wondering why he was all over her socials (the childless cat lady thing) and she asked if he was married, and I said yeah, 3 kids, wife is Hindu. Her immediate response: they are 100% each other’s beards. And I think she might be onto something.

  11. 11.

    Martin

    @Jay: No, I agree. However, to republicans that can’t conceive of giving up power, that could only be processed as ‘knifed in the back’.

  14. 14.

    Rusty

    What has also caught the Trump campaign out, is that the “he’s too old” attacks have boomeranged.  When the other guy is older, that works, but it doesn’t when voters thought both of them were too old.

  15. 15.

    Asparagus Aspersions

    @eclare: Nope, much to my amusement. ” Tell us Mr. Vance, when did you stop having sex with a couch?”

  17. 17.

    Lochnessmom

    @Jay:

    We went to ’90s trivia night at the college joint the youngest is working at and one of the teams was named “I Did Not Have Sexual Relations With That Sofa,” so it has really taken off.

  18. 18.

    Martin

    @Rusty: Republicans have always had a problem with thoughtless attacks that would come back to hurt them. Such as the childless cat lady one.

    You know, I didn’t until just now realize that California is on the cusp of our presidential redemption. We have serious sins to atone for.

  20. 20.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @rikyrah: good morning!

     

    @eclare: I like Walz. He’s got that happy warrior vibe you need in a veep.  A friend of mine thinks Mark Kelly has the inside track because he’s the only one who’s not been auditioning on any media.

  24. 24.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    repugs have gone from Senator Man on Dog to Senator Man on Couch

  26. 26.

    JWR

    @Lochnessmom:

    so it has really taken off.

    I watched Colbert Wednesday night and was a bit surprised there was no mention of a couch. Too soon? Too tacky? Maybe just too online.

  27. 27.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jay: ​
     

    as others have said, it wasn’t a couch, it was a love seat.

    By the time he got done with it, that is.

    It may sound gross, but better that than sexually assaulting women like his running mate does.

  28. 28.

    Jay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    for now, we don’t know that. Look at the crowd he ran with

    Maybe it wasn’t “women”

    It’s not like Gaetz, who finally got a high school girlfriend when he was 32 years old.

  30. 30.

    Tony Jay

    Nice side effect, how can Vance go on any TV Bobblehead politics show now to ‘make his case’? They all have couches.

    Question 1) Are you looking forward to the campaign?

    Question 2) Would you fuck this couch?

    It’s going nowhere.

  31. 31.

    Barbara

    @Jay: He is Peter Thiel’s protégé. I guess there isn’t a leopard big or scary enough to eat Thiel’s face, but his willingness to throw the non-cisgender population into the maelstrom in service to his bizarre vision of society by supporting people like Vance and Trump is infuriating.

    In turn, Vance clearly has no real principles so in my view he is capable of anything including u turns. I can’t imagine why Trump chose him other than money. It’s not likely he helps anywhere.

  32. 32.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @JWR: Colbert was on fire last night. I think right now he’s got an overabundance of material to work with from Please Clap J(eb!).D  so he can be very selective with what he uses.

  33. 33.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Martin: ​
     

    Showed my daughter the Diet Mt Dew speech since she’d never seen JD Vance and was wondering why he was all over her socials (the childless cat lady thing) and she asked if he was married, and I said yeah, 3 kids, wife is Hindu. Her immediate response: they are 100% each other’s beards. And I think she might be onto something.

    Whether or not they’re each other’s beards, I’m surprised that the evangelicals are OK with his being married to a Hindu. The whole “unequally yoked” bit is a BFD with them. (2 Cor. 6:14-17.) I’ll be asking my wife’s Southern Baptist relatives about this when we’re in Florida in a couple of weeks.

  34. 34.

    Suzanne

    @eclare:

    And I don’t think the “did Vance really fuck a couch?” meme is going away anytime soon. 

    Me either. And I love it.

    This kind of attack lands harder when it taps into something that is indeed real. Like, JD Vance might not have actually fucked a couch, but he comes off as gross and weird. He looks descended from a couch.

  36. 36.

    Nukular Biskits

    Good mornin’, y’all!

    If there is to be a debate, I doubt that Trump will cry like former AG (and former senator) Jeff Sessions did when then Senator Harris questioned him during a Senate hearing.  I suspect Trump will completely lose control of himself and start spewing vile invectives right there on live TV.  That’ll definitely rile up his base, who live to “OWN TEH STEWPIT LIBTARDS! HYUCK!HYUCK!HYUCK!”™ … but will absolutely horrify those independents who have been sitting on the fence because they’ll finally no longer be able to hide behind BOTHSIDESDOIT!!!!111!!!!.

  37. 37.

    Princess

    @Martin: Did you see that story about how Vance thought he might be gay until his grandmother persuaded him he wasn’t?

  38. 38.

    Jay

    @Barbara:

    technically, not a “protege”, he was a “Principal” in Theil’s VC firm, (lets not forget Paladin Spyware).

    In a VC Firm “Principals” are the grunts, the covffeve boys. He brought in 5 “deals” in 8 years, when the “standard” was 10 deals every 6 months. The VC “boys” rely on “churn” and “volume”. Make 50 “bets”, have one pay off, and it pays for the other 49 and then some.

    And he was too old to give blood to Thiel’s Vampirism Eternal Youth Program.

    His own VC’s, well, let’s just say the SEC should be “interested”.

  39. 39.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jay:

    for now, we don’t know that. Look at the crowd he ran with

    Maybe it wasn’t “women”

    Huh??

    E. Jean Carroll wasn’t a woman??

    All the other women who have credibly accused Trump of assaulting them, they weren’t women?

    I’m missing something here.

  42. 42.

    Suzanne

    @Jay: I don’t think a lot of people appreciate how social media has changed our elections. Like, we thought of it in the Obama days as a tool for organizing. But it’s not primarily that anymore. It’s this whole ecosystem of semiotics that moves at the speed of light, and people shape a whole self-concept in there. It’s kind of bonkers. It’s really the first sensation I’ve had of a world that is absolutely not for me, I’m old and it’s for the kids, and I can stand back and watch, but my judgments do not matter.

    This is why I’ve defended the use of the coconut tree emoji stuff. Like, can it be used in a racist way? Sure, absolutely. But so can words. And it’s how the kids (which is, like, pretty much most people below 35) communicate to each other now and how they form their bonds with others, and it isn’t really for us who don’t live there to decide what the mores are in that space.

  44. 44.

    Jay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    the Shillbilly Eulogy guy thought at one time, that he might be gay,

    Thiel is gay, his “mentor”,

    His wife might be a “beard”,

    He’s not part of the “no means no” culture,

    And he’s a rabid misogynist, homophobe and TERF.

    I am surprised he’s not an Incel, or has a “Canadian Girlfriend”.

    He’s “all in” on Project 47 and Project 2025, and yet, his wife is Hindu.

    Funny that.

  45. 45.

    Suzanne

    @WereBear: Yeah, exactly.

    Trump used to be really good at nicknaming people with some devastating thing. Like, he is a bully, and knows how to find that weakness in people. The old Trump would have seen that Vance comes off incredibly weirdly.

  48. 48.

    Shalimar

    @Suzanne: Life was so much simpler politically when you could rely on Baptists to hate Catholics.  I don’t like that they’re basically incestuous with each other now.

  49. 49.

    Jay

    @Suzanne:

    Coconut, palm tree emoji tells MVP Kamala Harris’s story,

    Just a coconut, may be a problem,

    My issue with the coconut thing, (less the palm tree), is that we should not use it here.

    For many people, a stand alone coconut means something completely different.

    The “kids” are going to do what they want to do, it’s the social media posts (the words) that preface the emoji’s that define the emoji.

    Peach by itself has a few meanings,

    Eggplant by itself , has a few meanings,

    Combine them, and it’s a call for Netflix and Chill.

  51. 51.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    The Republicans just need a few disclaimers on their website to make all the rumors and controversy go away.

    ”The court only said it was assault against E. Jean Carroll according to NY state law, not rape, because they couldn’t prove where his hooha was”

    ”Vance may feel gay on the inside but he’s really not because his grandma said so.”

    ”It wasn’t a sofa, it was a glove between two sofa cushions.”

  52. 52.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Jay:

    Okay, I’m definitely old. The eggplant reference, I get.

    The use of a coconut and/or coconut tree as a euphemism … I don’t.

    Do I need to head to Urban Dictionary to educate myself?

  53. 53.

    Suzanne

    @Jay: Yeah, I don’t emoji, and some commenters have said that they find it offensive, so I’ll respect that here. (Others have said explicitly that they have no problem with it. Xhitter is full of this debate right now, too, with a similar divide of opinion.) But the blanket statement that it’s racist to use that emoji in any context, or to even say the words “coconut tree”, I think that is trying to enforce old-people norms on young people. And I don’t really think it’s okay.

  54. 54.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Nukular Biskits: Coconut tree came from a speech by Kamala, something her mother (I think) used to say about did you just fall out of the coconut tree.

    So people want to use coconut trees for Kamala memes.

    Unfortunately as I learned here, “coconut” has a history as a slur against South Asians.

  55. 55.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Barbara:

    @lowtechcyclist: ​Vance, not Trump.

    Vance is his own running mate?

    I said, “It may sound gross, but better that [he fucks sofas] than sexually assaulting women like his running mate does.”

    Vance is the alleged couch-fucker. The alleged couch-fucker’s running mate is Trump.

  56. 56.

    Suzanne

    @Nukular Biskits: There are a lot of memes referencing “coconut tree”, because it’s referring to a speech that Kamala Harris made in which she shared an anecdote from her childhood in which her mom said, “you think you just fell out of a coconut tree? You exist in the context of that which came before you,” or something similar. So now, lots of Harris supporters are putting emojis of the coconut and the palm tree in their social media handles (because of the character limit). Brian Schatz posted a picture of himself climbing a palm tree toward some coconuts and captioned it, “Madam VP, We are ready to help.” There’s TikTok videos of animated palm trees and all that kind of stuff.

    But, of course, “coconut” is a nasty slur. And others have expressed that they find the use of the emoji racist. Which I can respect and so I won’t use it here. But the larger social media world sort of has a different meaning for it right now. Right now, it’s mostly used in support of the MFP.

  57. 57.

    Jay

    @WereBear:

    Maybe, maybe not.

    Smart VC’s don’t play with much of their own money.

    If they get a “one hit wonder”, OP give money to invest in their VC.

    It’s like Crypto.

    If you have contacts, a “pedigree”, you too can become a VC. And VC’s are not “Angel Investors”, they are the Payday scams for start ups.

  58. 58.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jay: ​
     

    the Shillbilly Eulogy guy thought at one time, that he might be gay,

    Thiel is gay, his “mentor”,

    His wife might be a “beard”,

    He’s not part of the “no means no” culture,

    And he’s a rabid misogynist, homophobe and TERF.

    I am surprised he’s not an Incel, or has a “Canadian Girlfriend”.

    He’s “all in” on Project 47 and Project 2025, and yet, his wife is Hindu.

    Funny that.

    What does all that have to do with Trump repeatedly sexually assaulting women?

  59. 59.

    Suzanne

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: The suggestion was made to use the lotus emoji instead, because Kamala means lotus in Sanskrit…. but then some other people from India said that the lotus symbol has some right-wing associations (because it was used by a political party or something) there that wouldn’t be appropriate for Harris. So who fucking knows.

  60. 60.

    Jay

    @Nukular Biskits:

    Brown on the outside, white on the inside. It is used inside the communities to slur that “you arn”t South Asian, Latin, etc, enough”. Outside the communities it’s used as a slur to deminish their opinion because they arn’t “really X”.

    Other terms to be aware of:

    Oreo

    Banana

    Apple

    there are a few more.

  61. 61.

    Anyway

    Psyched by how the political atmosphere has changed in 72 hours – Ds have got their fight back, they’re optimistic and have a sense of mission, while Republicans have flipped from gloating triumphalism to panicked pessimism…love it!
    I caught Biden’s speech in the car and missed the optics — wish he had thrown in an Irish poem – love when he does that.

  62. 62.

    Jay

    @Suzanne:

    Coconut Tree is fine, it reference MVP Kamala Harris’s story.

    Coconut, alone, well, you gotta read the words above the emoji.

    Nazi’s use the coconut emoji alone a lot.

  63. 63.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Suzanne: @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    Thanks for educating me.

    At the risk of sounding like the racist a-holes who whine “Why can’t I use the N-word?!?!?!? Black people use it!”, coconuts/coconut emojies as a bigoted reference sounds really esoteric to me.  After all, I had to have it explained to me and I suspect that’s the case with a LOT of other Americans.

    But, somewhat related, I did also recently learn that Cartoon Network had to change the name of the arch-villain in their animated series “Samarai Jack” when rebroadcast in certain other countries as “Aku” was either a derogatory slur  or a crude reference to a body part or both (can’t remember for sure) in other languages.

    So … I get it. But …, I also had to have this explained to me so … <shrug>

  66. 66.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Suzanne: ​
     

    I think I read that his wife converted to Catholicism?

    Usha Vance’s Wikipedia page says JD converted to Catholicism, but doesn’t say Usha did:

    She is a practicing Hindu, and her husband is a Christian[25][29] who was raised Evangelical but converted to Catholicism in 2019.[30]

  67. 67.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Suzanne: Some brothers and sisters use the n-word freely and comfortably amongst themselves and that’s fine.

    I don’t like it, so I don’t use it and I don’t have to give any explanation as to why.

    And non-POC don’t get to lecture me about what words are appropriate. I admired George Carlin, but his schtick on why he refused to use the phrase “Indigenous People” was condescending. You don’t own other people’s autonomy, and that means respecting how non-whites choose to define themselves.

    That’s my line in the sand. I try to respect whatever lines people need in their personal space. People who ignore that are exercising cultural appropriation and shoving their privilege in other people’s faces.

  68. 68.

    Jay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    We are not talking about 34 Felonies Rapist Pedo Guy, we are talking about Shillbilly Eulogy Guy.

    We are wondering if he got informed consent from the couch, or loveseat, or ottoman, or Lazy Boy recliner, or if he is a hetrosectional.

  69. 69.

    WereBear

    @Jay: His next memoir will be Five Years a Coffee Boy. Are these the highest paid coffee boys in the world?

    His wife is also Harvard Law, and last I heard, in a high powered position somewhere.

    If he wins, she will have to give that up. And the salary. There’s all kinds of demands on the wives, without any career building or income as a result. She’s headed for trad-wife/figurehead, and maybe that’s what she wants.

    She should have read the book Nazi Wives. Might give her some perspective.

  71. 71.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Shalimar: ​
     

    Life was so much simpler politically when you could rely on Baptists to hate Catholics. I don’t like that they’re basically incestuous with each other now.

    When the shared politics of Evangelicals and right-wing Catholics matter more to them than whether the Pope is the Antichrist, both sides of that alliance are telling us who they are.

  72. 72.

    Jay

    @WereBear:

    Maybe, maybe not. The ReThugs are not consistent with their supposed “values”.

    Pretty sure that Shillbilly Eulogy has no values.

  73. 73.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jay:

    We are not talking about 34 Felonies Rapist Pedo Guy, we are talking about Shillbilly Eulogy Guy.

    Then you shouldn’t have responded to my comment about the 34 Felonies Rapist Pedo Guy.

    ETA: What, you can’t talk about both of them in the same conversation?  I managed to compare the two in one sentence, which apparently messed up your mind.

  74. 74.

    WereBear

    Trump IS the anti-christ. He’s got everything now, including the head wound. Right there in their book they were warned about him misleading the unbelievers, but that is a huge oopsie they will never acknowledge.

    They had themselves ready for war because the antichrist brought peace. They entirely missed the part where he was a con man.

  76. 76.

    Frankensteinbeck

    I still think the biggest reason Trump is upset is that the press was doing his job better than he ever could.  Republican smears on Biden went nowhere.  It was the press that bludgeoned Biden with endless repetition until a minor issue became a weakness they then fanned into a wildfire when they got a good excuse.  It takes time for that to build up, and it’s gone.  Totally gone.  Trump has to fight his own battle and he’s no good at it.

    @Viva BrisVegas:

    I thought that Vance was against recreational sex.

    For women.  Men are owed all the sex they want, and women must be punished for it.  That is the conservative way.

  77. 77.

    Jay

    @WereBear:

    We had a guy here, 70’s and 80’s, I forget his nym and am too drunk right now to look it up, who was “famous” for pump and dumps, with penny mining stocks on the Vancouver Stock Exchange. Made millions. Spent most of it, kept some of it. White Collar Crime, you know.

    The BRIX guy, was his cofeffe boy. Rooked billions with a fake Gold Mine discovery in Indonesia. Destroyed thousands of lives.

    It’s not what you do, it’s who you know in the grift world.

  78. 78.

    trnc

    @lowtechcyclist: ​
     

    I’m surprised that the evangelicals are OK with his being married to a Hindu. The whole “unequally yoked” bit is a BFD with them. (2 Cor. 6:14-17.)

    There is no belief for anything related to DT that his voters won’t turn on a dime for.

  79. 79.

    WereBear

    @Jay: Grift World is one wild place. I only heard stories.

    White collar crime and a four bedroom home in the suburbs. The ones I knew, had it paid off, and kept a side grift going for expenses. That’s a best case because they also went to jail and couldn’t really build a career in other ways.

    But they all needed computers.

  80. 80.

    Jay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    the comment that triggered your comment, was “look at who he runs with”,

    It was not about 34 Felonies Rapist Pedo Guy, it was about the people Shillbilly Eulogy hung out with prior to politics.

    Shillbilly shit on 34 Felonies Rapist Pedo Guy, for a couple of years, publicly

    now they are BFF’s.

    Word is 34 Felonies Rapist Pedo Guy and his “Campaign” now want to abort the Shillbilly, but under Florida law, they are required to carry him to term, ballots have been printed.

    Srry for the confusion.

  82. 82.

    Jay

    @WereBear:

    Look at chasing crypto.

    We, (Canada) have a Crypto scammer, luxury globe trotting, lying about income, etc, while he owes close to a billion and is in “bankruptcy”.

  84. 84.

    trnc

    I don’t think there’s much point in policing “coconut tree.” We’re just going to have to see the context or know who the poster is to know whether it’s being used as a slur or as support for Kamala.

    IOW, no way am I going to lecture obviously good people who take pictures with coconuts. If they get any bad faith questions about it, I would hope their answer would be a simple “I support Kamala. See her coconut tree speech” and not try to get into a big hair splitting convo about different uses of the word.

  85. 85.

    WereBear

    I read Hillbilly Elegy. I think I would have remembered. Though the book itself was not memorable. I realized he was abasing himself and his “people” but despite the tale told as his granny single handedly filling out the forms he couldn’t figure out, he went on to the Marines and Yale, somehow.

    Getting a government paycheck was in there, and as a political memoir the NYT loved, he hit it out of the park.

    I will say he did not shoot any pets at all. Despite all the shooting iron seemingly to hand everywhere.

    And he wasn’t lazy, and neither was his true love. Who was not described or attributed any personality trait.

    I didn’t see what the fuss was about. It was, of course, artificial fuss.

  87. 87.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    I’ve worked with hundreds of Asian immigrants since the ’90s. Silicon Valley and all that.

    @Jay: Banana

    Is the term I’ve heard and always against an Asian-American (as in someone of Asian descent, born in the US or a naturalized Asian immigrant) by an Asian Immigrant.

    The return insult is “FOB”  “Fresh Off the Boat”.  “FOB” is the word people shouldn’t be using.

  89. 89.

    Geminid

    @Jay: I guess I should have looked harder. I wanted to string some emojis together to indicate that this whole coconut/palm controversy is a tempest in a teapot. I wanted to be indirect because I realize people are taking it seriously, for their own good reasons.

  90. 90.

    Jay

    @trnc:

    Coconut+palm tree emoji is fine, it references MVP Kamala Harris’s story that is akin to the old saying “did you just fall off a turnip truck”.

    Coconut alone. is problematic.

    All those of us who are anti-coconut here are saying is don’t use it alone here, because alone, it is ‘problematic”,  it hurts people here, and if you use emoji’s in social media, be aware that it often has a different meaning, dependent on the words that proceed it.

    FYI, you call my wife an “apple’ you are getting a beat down, at the least.

  95. 95.

    Raven

    There is a young lady at the dog park, PhD student in computer science. She from “northern India ” and said is used frequently in her experience and she thinks the whole backlash is silly. She was going to ask her dad so I’ll report back!

  96. 96.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @The Thin Black Duke: You don’t own other people’s autonomy, and that means respecting how non-whites choose to define themselves.

    Here is a little though experiment based my personal experience.

    What do you call it when a Vietnamese woman calls an Afghani man a terrorist, because he is from Afghanistan?

  98. 98.

    hueyplong

    Less than a week ago, who would have guessed that the two campaigns’ biggest issues on this board would be the nature of a vp candidate’s masturbatory practices on upholstery their side, and computer emoji best practices on ours. And that neither one directly involves Donald Trump.

    It’s not just the big picture that has shifted. It’s also the side issues.

    Makes you wonder what next week will bring. And the dozen or so after that. Gotta be unsettling for non-Americans to observe happening in the world’s foremost nuclear superpower.

    Though, oddly, maybe less unsettling than the standard Trump rally “speech.”

  99. 99.

    KithKanan

    @Jay: I’m confused about “apple” – is that the equivalent of the others but for an indigenous American? It took me a while to think of that, since I haven’t eaten an apple of that particular color if I could help it in quite a long time.

  100. 100.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jay:

    OK, your comment @28 triggered mine @27. Got it.

    And here I thought your comment @28 was a response to mine @27. No wonder I was confused.

  102. 102.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Lochnessmom:

    We went to ’90s trivia night at the college joint the youngest is working at and one of the teams was named “I Did Not Have Sexual Relations With That Sofa,” so it has really taken off.

    I hope somebody bought that team a round of Tastee Adult Beverages.

    Repeat a lie often enough and people will believe it is definitely the way to go on this.

  103. 103.

    Geminid

    @hueyplong: I saw recent clips from a Trump rally where he was goofy and rambling. I think it was yesterday. The audience behind him looked bored.

  104. 104.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Raven:

    Again, to me (an old) it’s a matter of context and, I’ll add, intent and audience.  A perfect example would be the N-word or a term that used as both a term of endearment AND a slur to refer to folks from Louisiana, particularly if they’re Cajun.

    That in no way should be construed to be an excuse for those using such terms in an intentionally offensive context.

    As for coconuts, I’m waiting for someone to answer this coconut-related question:

    “What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?”

  105. 105.

    Jay

    @WereBear:

    He grew up in Middletown, a medium sized city, in a 4 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath, suburban house. Both of his parents worked full time, middle class jobs, his Grandparents provided daycare.

    He barely passed High School, and joined the Marines, where he was an E1 doing Public Relations. He did one tour in Iraq as as E1 PR, and was discharged, ( when the US Military was desperate for staffing), he should have been an E4 on discharge and he was discharged 2 years early.

    Hum?

    “Hillbilly Elegy” is a mix of non-fiction and fiction. He took other people life experiences and made them his own, with just enough of his own life mixed in, to make it seem authentic.

    Con Man.

  107. 107.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    And non-POC don’t get to lecture me about what words are appropriate. I admired George Carlin, but his schtick on why he refused to use the phrase “Indigenous People” was condescending. You don’t own other people’s autonomy, and that means respecting how non-whites choose to define themselves.

    That’s my line in the sand. I try to respect whatever lines people need in their personal space. People who ignore that are exercising cultural appropriation and shoving their privilege in other people’s faces.

    You’ve just described every self-professed white progressive that’s transplanted here to Denver over the last decade (and to other “hot” metro areas nationwide). Their racial tone deafness is alarming.

  111. 111.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @hueyplong:

    Less than a week ago, who would have guessed that the two campaigns’ biggest issues on this board would be the nature of a vp candidate’s masturbatory practices on upholstery their side, and computer emoji best practices on ours. And that neither one directly involves Donald Trump.

    The asteroid can’t hit soon enough.

  114. 114.

    KithKanan

    @Jay: I meant American in the continental rather than national sense anyway, though in hindsight should have phrased it better.

  115. 115.

    lowtechcyclist

    @rikyrah: ​
     

    Opus Dei Catholic, folks. Search and see😒😒

    Yeah, I’m aware of them. Still, I’d expect Vance to have much more of a following among evangelicals than among Catholics despite his relatively recent conversion, just like Rod Dreher, who started off as a Methodist before converting first to Roman Catholicism and then to Orthodoxy.

  116. 116.

    3Sice

    It’s the same problem his NY defense team had. He’s not a credible witness to his own defense. Put at cross examination by a capable prosecutor and he will crack out of turn.

    God only knows who or what he’d give up.

  118. 118.

    Jay

    @Nukular Biskits:

    Which species of swallow, Barn? Cliff?,……..

    Does that include Swifts and other species of the Swallow genus?

    What about heat, humidity, and other environmental effects?

  119. 119.

    Geminid

    @hueyplong: My Atlanta friend said he thought the campaign has been placing a more “presentable” group behind Trump lately. He speculated that Trump has been looking at tape and realized how sketchy-looking many of his supporters are.

  120. 120.

    lowtechcyclist

    @KithKanan: ​

    “What do you mean? An African or European swallow?“

    Answering a question with a question may not be considered kosher in some circles, but it sufficed for King Arthur, and that’s good enough for me!

    ETA: “You have to know these things when you’re a king.”

  121. 121.

    Jay

    @KithKanan:

    Naw, it was okay. People often don’t realize that Indigenous ID and nationhood, is not bound by the border, north or south.

  122. 122.

    Ken

    @lowtechcyclist: I’m surprised that the evangelicals are OK with his being married to a Hindu

    There are some who are not, I’ve seen screenshots of their Xits. As trnc alludes it’s not likely to swing many evangelical votes; those souls have been sold.

    Still, it would be interesting to get an idea of percentages. I doubt any will be forthcoming since it doesn’t seem like something anyone would poll — although a push poll might be another matter….

  123. 123.

    KithKanan

    @Jay: Store apple wise, I tend to be partial to Fujis, which I guess could be thought of as red but I think of mottled red/yellow/green as different from “red”, which makes me think of Red Delicious (blech). I know there are many other good varieties at my local Farmers Market but I have trouble waking up on Saturdays early enough to make it there.

  126. 126.

    Ken

    @Jay: Nazi’s use the coconut emoji alone a lot.

    Which in a roundabout way reminds me of my shock when I first learned that the swastika is still used by Hindus, as well as a number of other societies, none of whom see any reason that the Nazis should prevent their use of it as a symbol.

  128. 128.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    I try to follow the rule that if it’s a slur, and I’m not its target, I shouldn’t be using it.

    The problem is that slurs come into being (or evolve from more innocent concepts) faster than I can keep up. (For example, until half an hour ago, I didn’t know that “apple” was a slur.)

  130. 130.

    Central Planning

    @Jay: Every time I have read about apple being used as a slur, I think “How is a Granny Smith… OHHHH!” Literally every time.

  132. 132.

    KithKanan

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Answering a question with a question may not be considered kosher in some circles

    I was going to say “hey, it worked for Socrates” but then I remembered the whole Hemlock thing.

  133. 133.

    Chris Johnson

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Always follow it with:

    “You exist in the context of all in which you live and what came before you.”

    That makes it Kamala Harris’s. I had trouble remembering the exact wording so I made a text clipping, and now I can always follow such a meme with the correct context and help Kamala define what it means. :)

  135. 135.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jay: ​
     

    FYI, you call my wife an “apple’ you are getting a beat down, at the least.

    What, isn’t she the apple of your eye?

    :D&R:

  137. 137.

    Chris Johnson

    @Suzanne: Not just ‘some right wing party’, the literal BJP. The worst. And Kamala’s part Indian. So I figure people can be tricked by that innocently, but once you know, you can’t unsee it. Obvious shenanigans.

    I know I’m not going to make Harris, part-Indian, run under the banner of the BJP. What the actual fuck XD

  138. 138.

    WereBear

    @Jay:

    He did one tour in Iraq as as E1 PR, and was discharged, ( when the US Military was desperate for staffing), he should have been an E4 on discharge and he was discharged 2 years early.

    Hum?

    Meaningful. I think his one skill is Professional Son.

  139. 139.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Ken: A swastika is the marker for a Buddhist temple on Google Maps in Japan. It’s a little hard to get used to but it’s the symbol used in much of the world. You also see it used in Asian groceries to indicate that a product is vegetarian.

    (Here, Google Maps uses a wheel of dharma.)

    (Sometimes people say it’s a matter of clockwise vs. counterclockwise but it’s not that cut and dried. The Nazi flag looked like a mirror image seen from the other side.)

  140. 140.

    SFAW

    @eclare: ​
     

    And I don’t think the “did Vance really fuck a couch?” meme is going away anytime soon.

    I think Dems should tamp that stuff down. We’re better than that.

    Just kidding. I mean, we generally ARE “better than that,” but considering the vile shit that’s already started from the RWMFs (“Kamala’s a DEI hire,” “she slept her way to the top,” etc.), I’m more-than-OK with making fun of them and putting them on the defensive.

  141. 141.

    Chris Johnson

    As for the debate, the only thing I ask is this:

    As long as Kamala Harris’s Secret Service detail are always a meat shield in the line of fire between her and TRUMP’S Secret Service detail, bring it on.

    I’m not even joking. It sounds like Trump’s people not only acted real strange, but then stonewalled their own boss, who has now resigned, unable to get any answers or fix anything.

    I’m fine with everyone’s Secret Service details being loyalists to them: seems appropriate. I just have big big problems with WHAT loyalists to Trump get up to, when their back’s against the wall. So if Trump AND his Secret Service detail suddenly want to get in the same space with Kamala Harris for debates he is sure to lose, I want them disarmed. No ‘oopsies’.

  142. 142.

    WereBear

    @KithKanan: Actually, I think “The Americas” are long overdue for getting their due, North and South.

    We could form strategic alliances there, instead of blowing up their elections, and have a kind of European Union effect.

    This helps against harm for everyone. And make “Republican” go the way of the Know Nothings. Which I think is where they started.

    Is there no vaccine for this mind virus?

    Can’t we wipe it out like smallpox?

  143. 143.

    lowtechcyclist

    @SFAW:
    And Vance’s alleged couch-fucking is still nowhere near as bad as his running mate’s history of sexual assault.​

  147. 147.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    JD Vance had sex with a couch.
    Legend of Bagger Vance.
    Legend of Couch Shagger Vance.

  148. 148.

    Argiope

    @The Thin Black Duke: once more for the people in the back.

    Words and images are symbols and all of this is about who has the power to determine what they mean.

    There’s a whole lot of (mostly white) Southerners who try to say the Confederate flag is about Southern identity, not racism.  I choose to stand with those who find it emblematic of racism, because they are the ones who should be able to define it for the rest of us.   I get that sometimes we’re dealing with internal communities differing in their opinions about usage, but that’s where I, as a white person, decide to *shut up and listen and not use the term* until it’s all figured out.

  150. 150.

    SFAW

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I’m surprised that the evangelicals are OK with his being married to a Hindu.

    The evangelicals of 30-40 years ago, maybe. But these days, they’re all about power-for-power’s-sake, and about making sure the authoritarians win (so those satanic libtards can be subjugated/killed) no matter the hypocrisy necessary to accomplish that.

  151. 151.

    WereBear

    @Argiope: Also, “heritage” is used as a cage, where people have extra barriers to getting out of the ecosystem which enforces their role.

    The pressure to duplicate their parent’s lives is intense. Even when those lives are nothing to emulate, it’s all a child has.

  152. 152.

    Jay

    @KithKanan:

    Worth it, set the alarm.

    Orange Cox Pippins are the best apple in the world.

    Unfortunately they crack if  dry and wet cycles are spaced too far apart, so most years, they go for cider.

    Apples are “amazing”. The Brits dragged them all over the world, where local breeding adapted them to the local climate. there are 20,987 varietals.

    One house I bought had a Yellow Delicious tree in sad shape, Mold, rot, moss. Pruned it,  (root and dripline), sprayed it, ( oil), fed it, 72lbs of apples the next year. (picked greenish, almost ripe, great for pies, froze well), the next year, 272lbs.

    Sent a fruit and leaf sample to the UBC, (University of British Columbia) Apple Project. Wow, new cultivar they had never seen before.

    The tree was planted in the 1940’s, pre-history in some regards.

  153. 153.

    Suzanne

    @Jay: Yeah, it’s so hard. These references move really fast and make sense in their context and then make no sense outside of it, or they mean something totally different to someone else.

    Like I said…. it’s a whole subculture that is absolutely not catered to my aesthetics. Which is totally fine.

  156. 156.

    SFAW

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Agreed. But I was thinking of the mockery angle, and there’s nothing to mock about TCFFG’s sexual assault/rape history. [Not criticizing you, just trying to clarify.]

  159. 159.

    WereBear

    @SFAW: Perhaps, this was the Jungian pressure and behold!

    The Vance Couch Meme.

    I tell you, the gifts we are giving future historians. I’m picturing PhD students in their study helmets, texting back and forth with a chip that has President Biden’s face on it…

    “Wait ’till you get to 2024. You ain’t seen nothing yet.”

  160. 160.

    DougL

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    I’m with you. Call people what they want to be called. As a white dude I have zero standing in these conversations so make no effort to influence their outcome. And be ready to change nomenclatures as the times change. It’s really not that hard and it’s just a measure of basic respect. Like learning how to pronounce someone’s name that is “different.” Like Kamala. Or Barack.

  161. 161.

    SFAW

    @WereBear: ​
     

    Turns out Johnny Appleseed wasn’t worried about pie.

    Well, of course not: Balloon Juice and cleek didn’t exist yet.

  162. 162.

    Jay

    @Ken:

    the Indian swastika rotates to the left, the NAZI one, to the Reicht.

    It’s like the Sonnorade, it;s a Plains Indigenous peoples “sun star”, but with a few changes, it’s a “we are Nazi’s but Not Those Nazi”s symbol.

    Or the thumb and finger Ok signal.

  165. 165.

    SFAW

    @DougL: ​

    One of the unsurprising things I see in some of the RWMF “news” feeds I get is that they now refer to the candidates as “Trump” and “Kamala.” It’s a not-particularly-subtle way of demeaning her: referring to her by her first name, as if she were not one of our national leaders. Annoying, but not surprising.

  166. 166.

    Jay

    @WereBear:

    Naw, just my first name. My real name.

    My Mother wanted Johnathan,

    My Dad wanted James,

    All they could agree on was the first letter.

    That was the last thing they agreed on.

  167. 167.

    Suzanne

    @The Thin Black Duke: That’s totally fair. No one has to use any term they don’t want to, and sensitivity to others is important.

    My point, which is not in opposition to yours, is that us olds don’t get to tell the youngs what to do. It’s their cultural milieu, not ours.

  169. 169.

    Suzanne

    @WereBear: Talk about a semiotic shift, 72 hours ago…. “Couch” did not mean “object of sexual frustration”! Now it does!

  170. 170.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Jay: The idea that the Nazis reversed it to make it bad showed up in WWII Allied propaganda but it’s not actually that consistent. Buddhists seem to mostly use the opposite orientation from the standard Nazi symbol, but Jains usually use the same orientation and you see both of them used together in Hindu art.

  171. 171.

    Wapiti

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I thought that Vance was against recreational sex.

    For women.  Men are owed all the sex they want, and women must be punished for it.  That is the conservative way.

    Restating this, in agreement with your point: Men have needs. Women have desires. It’s totally different in the Conservative mind.

  173. 173.

    Subsole

    @Jay:

    A very large part of tyranny’s appeal for these people is the ability to flout the laws they shoot everyone else for breaking.

  174. 174.

    Subsole

    @Suzanne:

    Thiel might be looking at actuarial tables and making some steely-eyed calculations of his own.

    I mean, dude got shot at once already…

  175. 175.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Frankensteinbeck: There are a lot of incel types out there who imagine that they’d be able to get some in a traditionalist society where men were (as they imagine, at least) basically issued wives to make babies for them. For them, this kind of statement *is* a promise of sex.

  176. 176.

    Wapiti

    @SFAW: Kamala is foreign to some, in a way that Harris is not. So it might also be a subconscious Othering.

  177. 177.

    Subsole

    @Nukular Biskits:

    I know for Latinos it can mean “brown on the outside, white on the inside”. I expect that applies to South Asians as well. Basically calling you a sellout, toady, or worse.

  179. 179.

    RevRick

    @Martin: Knifed in the back has all the connotations of betrayal and I find your assertion that weak Democrats did it problematic.

    Underlying this is the assumption that a public office is owed to someone. President Biden has been a great President therefore we owe it to him to support his efforts for a second term. Ordinarily, a party would back him wholeheartedly in this, but the party decided that other factors outweigh this general rule. If you look at how parties have worked in the past, you will find that officeholders have been unceremoniously ushered off the stage all the time. Usually, it is at the hands of voters, but parties will do so when they calculate that it’s in their interest. The Whigs dumped their incumbents, John Tyler and Millard Fillmore, in 1844 and 1852. The Democrats dumped Franklin Pierce and James Buchanan in 1856 and 1860. Lincoln dumped his VP, Hannibal Hamlin, in 1864, which turned out to be a grievous error. FDR dumped two of his VPs, Garner and Wallace in 1940 and 1944. Gerald Ford dumped his VP, Nelson Rockefeller, for Bob Dole in 1976. Healthy parties do these things.
    We might not like that the Democratic Party did this, and we may believe this has all been a media-driven response, but when it comes to politics, we need to be tough-minded as well as tender-hearted.

  180. 180.

    Suzanne

    @Matt McIrvin:

    There are a lot of incel types out there who imagine that they’d be able to get some in a traditionalist society where men were (as they imagine, at least) basically issued wives to make babies for them. For them, this kind of statement *is* a promise of sex. 

    This.
    Jordan Peterson talked a bunch about “enforced monogamy”, which these guys think will get them laid more.

  181. 181.

    Geminid

    @hueyplong: Trump used to be fairly aware of appearances. He may be losing his mind but he hasn’t lost it all.

    But that was speculation on my friend’s part anyway. Trump’s campaign team may have noticed the riffraff and realized the background prople need an upgrade.

  182. 182.

    RevRick

    @Jay: It is impossible for Vance to be a TERF since it stands for Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist, and Vance has nothing but contempt for feminists of any sort.

  183. 183.

    Quinerly

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The Navajo used it. I collect old NA jewelry. Lots contain swastika stamps. They are referred to as “whirling logs.” There are at least 2 buildings in Farmington, NM and 1 building in Mountainair, NM with whirling logs in their brickwork. The Kimo Theater (Albuquerque) built in the late 1920’s has whirling logs. This is all off the top of my head right now. I don’t have time to provide links. Very interesting articles out there. For those new to collecting NA jewelry, there’s always a freak out when they see the bracelets, pendants with whirling logs. I would never wore my 100 year old whirling log pieces until moving to the SW. Required too much explanation.

  185. 185.

    lowtechcyclist

    @DougL:

    And be ready to change nomenclatures as the times change. It’s really not that hard and it’s just a measure of basic respect. Like learning how to pronounce someone’s name that is “different.” Like Kamala. Or Barack.

    Or using people’s preferred pronouns and not deadnaming.

  186. 186.

    Harrison Wesley

    What’s the deal with MAGA love for fabric?  Mike Lindell and his pillow, the swinish oaf and his facial sanitary napkin, Jay Deviance and his couch………..

  187. 187.

    lowtechcyclist

    @K-Mo: ​
     

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Long story short: lots of men who rape women are not heterosexual.

    Bonus: lots of men who rape men (or boys) are not homosexual.

    Slightly more detailed: a rapists behavior can come from a variety of places. E.g., hatred of women.

    ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/rape-power-anger-and-sexuality

    I made a comparison @27 between Vance’s alleged couch-fucking and Trump’s history of sexual assault, making the point that Vance’s couch-fucking, no matter how gross-sounding it is, wasn’t anywhere near as bad as Trump’s history of sexual assault.

    That was all.

    Comments responding to mine took some weird turns from there, none of which had anything to do with what I’d said.

    Including this. Seriously, WTF?!

  188. 188.

    RevRick

    @Quinerly: The Post Office in downtown Allentown PA has some swastika floor tiles, and the first time I saw them I was rattled. It was built in 1933-34 and the designer was thinking of the Navaho symbol, not the Nazi one.

  189. 189.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)

    @Geminid: 🌬️🫖

    Best I can do—since they’re both white/greyscale they don’t show up well on a white background.

  190. 190.

    charon

    @Jay:

    The swaztika originates as a representation of the paths of stars around the North Star in the night sky, as the Earth rotates.  The Nazi orientation seems correct.

  192. 192.

    DougL

    @SFAW:  So true. They love to refer to women by their first names. Totally a lack of respect. But, on our side, I hope the use of first names (but you better be doing for both sexes!) is a mark of affection.

  193. 193.

    Quinerly

    @RevRick: I started traveling the Southwest extensively in 2011 and moved to Santa Fe 4/2022. The first time I saw the whirling logs symbol was in the brick work on a building in a very small town here in NM on that first trip. I love driving backroads and wandering around towns/villages.  I literally knew nothing. I kinda freaked. When I caught an internet signal a couple of hrs I looked it up. Then started learning about the old jewelry….lots of stamping on  Fred Harvey era and before.

  195. 195.

    Ken

    @Subsole: I mean, dude got shot at once already…

    And isn’t it fascinating how quickly that dropped out of the news?

    I suspect in the alternate universe where the shooter was a registered Democrat, it’s still running 24/7 on Fox and the NYT has daily editorials.

  197. 197.

    Quinerly

    @Ken: it’s very interesting that there hasn’t been transparency re his medical records. Only that freak Jackson/Johnson’s “report.”

  199. 199.

    Ken

    @Quinerly: Trump was golfing a couple days after the shooting, without a bandage. I’m leaning toward the theory that he wasn’t hurt at all, and it was someone else’s blood. Maybe an outside chance he was hit by glass fragments or something like that.

    And now, because I’ve been playing too much Call of Cthulhu, I ponder what sort of rites would require the cultist to first be anointed with the victim’s blood, then dry-hump the victim’s clothes in front of thousands of fellow cultists.

  201. 201.

    Quinerly

    @Ken:  I knew about that from history classes. As we know Native American history and culture is overlooked and rarely taught. I was 50 before I had ever heard of/seen whirling logs and learned about it’s significance in Navajo culture. Some new and upcoming artists are now using it in new designs. I applaud them for taking their symbol back.

  204. 204.

    Quinerly

    @Princess: don’t know about obscure post offices. I do know that a lot of the Navajo jewelry, especially Fred Harvey (American hotel empire/hired Hopi and Navajo to make tourist items) pieces date to the mid 1930’s. And, later. I have some pieces that are supposedly from 1939.

  206. 206.

    Lyrebird

    @RevRick: your assertion that…

    I’m struggling to follow – I don’t think Martin was asserting that, he was trying to describe a MAGA mindset.

    Not so important for me to fully digest it, I gotta get back to work, but just wanted to mention it sounds like a misunderstanding.

  209. 209.

    Ruckus

    @Barbara:

    I can’t imagine why Trump chose him other than money.

    shitforbrains is one of those people who will always believe that he is the greatest human to walk the earth. No matter what 90% of the world actually knows. It may be 99%, his diehard supporters actually think that is the way humans (males) are supposed to act. The concept of not acting – no, that’s not being a big dick is so unlike them.

  210. 210.

    Ruckus

    @Anyway:

    Joe Biden is an old. And no it doesn’t matter to them that shitforbrains is only 3 yrs younger than Joe and it wouldn’t matter to them if it was only 3 days – he is younger. Now you bring on a woman who is 21 yrs younger than Joe and therefore 18 yrs younger than shitforbrains and his age and his rapid deterioration really stands out. They have no rational for their guy because the one thing they could hang on is way gone. They can’t say convincingly that she has no idea what is going on in the WH, she’s the VP. They can’t argue that she has no idea about the job, she’s seen it first hand and their guy has no clue whatsoever. While I think that Joe Biden really wanted to stay, for him, this is the whole ballgame – actually being the president, actually doing the right thing. For SFB it is only the prestige, the label, he has zero idea what the job is or how to do it and he showed that for 4 yrs. SFB is a useless ass who thinks the entire world revolves around him. And like everything else – he’s wrong.

  211. 211.

    Subsole

    @Ken:

    Also kind of amazing how his ear magically regenerated after the kotex came off.

    You’d think the guy cracking pluripotent stemcell regenerative therapy would be a bigger deal…

  213. 213.

    mr perfect

    @Jay: You’re thinking of Murray Pezim, the guy who did the pump’n’dump scheme with Eskay Creek Gold back in 1987.  BCTV News, now called Global gave massive amounts of free publicity for Pezim to pitch his fraud.  Keep in mind Pezim had fled Vancouver to Scottsdale, Az two years earlier leaving bad debts before coming back to say his nose “smelled ” gold at Eskay Creek.  He was associated with the VSE, aka the Howe Street Mafia of which was known as the money laundering and scam capital of North America.  Pezim was more or less the pimp of the operation.  I did not know that David Walsh was associated with Pezim or was it Felderhof?  The Phillipino geologist Michael de Guzman supposedly tried to bungy jump out of a helicopter and into the Indonesian jungle w/o a bungy cord or so they say.  Between Eskay Creek Gold, Bre X Minerals and BCRIC set up by the provincial government of the day, I learned I could get a better return on investment at the local casino than at any stock exchange.

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