Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I didn’t have alien invasion on my 2023 BINGO card.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Trump makes a mockery of the legal system and cowardly judges just sit back and let him.

There’s always a light at the end of the frog.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

Bad news for Ron DeSantis is great news for America.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

There are a lot more evil idiots than evil geniuses.

“Why isn’t this Snickers bar only a nickel?”

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

Nikki Haley, who can’t acknowledge ‘slavery’, is a pathetic shill.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

Come on, man.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Yes We KAM!

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Yes We KAM!

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Bait for the Blogfather!


Thursday Morning Open Thread 22

Our failed major media…

Reader Interactions

566Comments

  1. 1.

    HinTN

    The Pitchbot rules! Another masterstroke for BJ to savor. Cheers, AL, and thanks for these.

  2. 2.

    Geo Wilcox

    I saw the start of the interview and the excellent question she asked was not even understood by Trump. He tuned out after the first 5 words were spoken. I saw his face just sort of glitch when she was talking. Unreal.

  3. 3.

    Freemark

    I still hate the way the press and some Democrats Schivved JFB, but the way KH and JFB and his team have handled this has been pretty fucking great.

  4. 4.

    Princess

    “Canny Trump avoids pitfall of premature pivot: How this is bad news for Harris.”

    They’re a joke.

  5. 5.

    TBone

    Schadenfreude alert.  In the Dept. of You Love to See It:

    Inside the MAGA bubble, recriminations and blame are growing as Trump’s electoral position apparently grows weaker.

    Nick Fuentes, the white nationalist, Holocaust denier, and groyper leader who dined with Trump at Mar-a-Lago in 2022, has been railing at LaCivita for a while. Just days ago, Fuentes bragged that his audience is more loyal to him than it is to Trump and said that he would not vote in 2024 because the people closest to Trump, like LaCivita and Wiles, are not loyal to America First ideals.

    Wiles and LaCivita’s decision to turn on Project 2025 so publicly has only made this wound larger.

    Pizzagate conspiracy theorist Mike Cernovich jumped in, writing that Project 2025 people were “loyal to the end” and that LaCivita is “preparing a coup against Trump.”

    MAGA figures the Hodgetwins wrote that they don’t trust LaCivita and Wiles and that Trump needs “OG loyalists” to win the election.

    https://www.mediamatters.org/project-2025/maga-figures-are-suddenly-afraid-trump-will-lose-and-pointing-fingers-each-other-over

    Oops, too many links, sorry!

  8. 8.

    Princess

    @Geo Wilcox: An inability to follow questions and answer on point is a symptom of cognitive decline. My mom with Alzheimer’s was like this early on, We made every excuse for her – she’s having problems hearing, she’s inattentive. No. People think AZ is a memory disease. That’s a tiny part of it. It affects processing really early on. Still you can see her in a conversation trying to follow and throwing out things that are vaguely on topic but not quite. Just like Trump does.

  9. 9.

    Ken

    @Princess: In fairness, that was the Pitchbot’s take. However both the NYT and the Post ran headlines (the Post’s is above) saying Trump’s weird claims about Harris’s race were a problem for her.

  11. 11.

    Baud

    Does anyone remember the Romney “reset”? That’s what the Trump pivot reminds me of.

  13. 13.

    Barbara

    @Princess: Yes, I suspect Trump’s habit of just talking over people and spewing whatever he wants is a way of avoiding having to parse questions.

  15. 15.

    Ken

    @TBone: Fuenta, LaCivita, Wiles, Cernovich…. That story reminds me of Popehat’s recent post, “Here to refute the suggestion we are weird is Seb Gorka.”

    Also a reminder that Trump may disclaim Project 2025, but he’s surrounded by people (including Vance) who are very much onboard and would certainly use the 25th Amendment to get Trump out of the way.

  20. 20.

    Mousebumples

    https://bsky.app/profile/naomikritzer.bsky.social/post/3kymtv4m5vk2v

    Trump’s over-the-top racism and petulant whining legitimately grabbed the headlines, but I think it’s worth talking about how completely and totally he muffed a couple of softball questions today.

    The Fox news journalist asked him if JD Vance would be “ready on day one” to step into the presidency. This should be a really easy question to answer. If you picked someone as your VP the answer is “yes, 100%” followed by some praise of the guy you picked.

    Instead, Trump answered the question, “do you think JD Vance’s unpopularity is going to cost you on election day?” which is not the question that was asked! and also not the question you should WANT them to have asked!

    Like, if they HAD asked if he thinks JD Vance unpopularity was going to cost him later, it’s reasonable to say “no, I don’t think it’ll matter” and then pivot immediately to “the most important quality in a running mate is that he’ll be ready to serve if needed” and say that your guy would be.

    This same journalist (I think) gave him a question about inflation, basically a gold-plated invitation to rant about Joe Biden, and he complained that he couldn’t hear her and didn’t understand the question. They were sitting across from each other on a stage.

    Even if her mic had gone out — which it hadn’t! she was audible on camera! — he should have been able to hear the question. (Unless he’s losing his hearing. If he is, he should be getting the necessary accommodations for that!)

    Trump’s bombastic bullshit like claiming he was the greatest president for Black people since Abraham Lincoln: kind of what most people expected, we know who he is.

    Not being able to answer a softball question about his running mate: pretty weird, actually!

  21. 21.

    Sally

    IMHO, Harris should just answer any “race” questions, with: “My mother is Indian, my father is Jamaican, and I am American”.

    And all the trump said this or that thing, with just: “There he goes again, that’s just the same OLD, same OLD Donold” . And leave it at that. Trying to refute or discuss every lying thing he says is falling into his same old same old trap.

  22. 22.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Ken: However both the NYT and the Post ran headlines (the Post’s is above) saying Trump’s weird claims about Harris’s race were a problem for her.

    Review of Reactions to Trump NABJ Interview Reveal Deep Racial Ignorance in Legacy Media – Not the AP

  27. 27.

    Sally

    Plus, I think they should have a photo of trump slumped next to Putin at Helsinki – you know the one – next to a pic of Harris with other leaders, looking strong. To refute his claim that she will be weak dealing with other leaders.

  28. 28.

    TBone

    @Sally: oh, I Iike “Donold” and I hope you don’t mind if I start using it everywhere!  Plus everything else you said.

  37. 37.

    Baud

    Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine (R) argued a November ballot initiative that aims to end gerrymandering would actually make it worse.

     

    “I’m afraid that if this amendment passes, in a relatively short time, after the voters see the results and see the districts that have been produced, voters would once again demand change, and would be even more disillusioned,” DeWine said during a press conference Wednesday morning.

  41. 41.

    glory b

    He always retreats to calling the question & reporter “nasty” several ties, goes off on a diatribe & never actually answers the question.

    That way, he can cover up his inability to answer.

  42. 42.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    It’s going to pass. They’re on the wrong side. Again.

    DeWine used to be normal. I think people have forgotten that. Now he’s like a crazy liar. He’ll say anything. He and his wife did a video ad against the reproductive rights amendment that was a series of lies. That whole party is infected with constant lying and needs to be rebuilt from the bottom up and Ohio and Florida are the best examples of what’s happened to it.

  45. 45.

    Jeffro

    Pitchbot = godlike, I think??  =)

    Presented for sheer comic relief, here’s Chris Sununu: My Fellow Republicans, Even Though We’ve Had a World-Class Trash Talker as Our Party Leader For the Past Eight Years, Stop the Trash Talk

    for realz!

    As a Republican governor who has won four elections in a purple state, I’ve learned a thing or two about how to win. As Donald Trump and my fellow Republicans navigate the next steps of their campaigns, my message to them is this: The path to victory in November is not won through character attacks or personal insults.
    In fact, those attacks are unlikely to bring a single new voter onboard. Catchy one-liners — calling Vice President Harris a “bum,” “not a serious person” and “bottom of the barrel” — might rile up the base, but they do little to connect with independent voters needed to close the deal in November.

    When independent voters in battleground states — those who will determine the outcome of this election — turn on the TV they see too many members of my party lobbing personal attacks at Ms. Harris. It’s the worst kind of politics. It lowers the conversation and it plays into the Democrats’ narrative that this election is about political revenge for Mr. Trump. And more important, it reaps no reward.

    <insert several lies about President Biden’s record, ignore trump’s nuking of the bipartisan border deal, etc etc>

    Now more than ever, Americans — independents, especially — are ready to turn down the heat on political rhetoric. The topic of “childless cat ladies” has yet to register as a winning issue for Republicans in the polls.

    <more lies about the economy, inflation, and the border>

    In the past six months, I’ve met countless people who have never voted for Mr. Trump before, but are considering supporting him now because they see what’s going wrong in this country. But they all say the same thing: they can’t get past his personal attacks. They just want him to talk about solutions.

    LOL

    I can say with complete confidence that absolutely no one who’s never voted for trump before is considering him now.  Solutions?  From trump??

    Anyway, good luck trying to get “your fellow Republicans” to stop with the trash talk, Chris, you bootlicker.  The person you needed to tell it to is Donald fucking trump

  46. 46.

    Lapassionara

    @Sally: I know I sound like a broken record, but this photo, where Trump looks like a whipped dog and Putin looks like the cat that swallowed the canary, is devastating to Trump.

  47. 47.

    Scout211

    Bloomberg (behind a pay wall) and others are reporting that WSJ reporter Evan Gershkovich is being released in a  multi-country prisoner swap.

    Thanks, President Biden!

  50. 50.

    TBone

    Meanwhile, in the horseshoe loop that the tankies can’t seem to see, Pooty (through, snort, Jill Stein) is now pushing a doom fantasy about an impending WWIII due to escalation in the Middle East.  That simply means he knows he is losing too much in Ukraine.  We’ll not fall for that bait or take our eyes off the ball.  Pooty does not have control over the state of play.

  53. 53.

    Kay

    This is from June of this year:

    COLUMBUS, Ohio — Now-indicted FirstEnergy executives allegedly worked with Ohio Governor Mike DeWine and his team to pass legislation that was the result of the largest corruption scheme in state history, according to newly released text messages. DeWine denies knowing House Bill 6 was a bribe.
    The governor has tried to distance himself as much as he can from the scandal, one where FirstEnergy spent $61 million dollars in exchange for H.B. 6, legislation giving a $1 billion bailout for their failing energy company.
    This landed former House Speaker Larry Householder in federal prison for 20 years, and he is now facing state charges, as well

    DeWine lied about this for three years. Every single state Republican is going to be ensnared in this scandal eventually – except those who were newly elected in the last 3 years.
    Republicans in Ohio have been responsible for both of the largest corruption scandals in state historyy – Number one (First Energy) and Number two (charter school chain) – and both occurred in the last 10 years. His Lt Gov is corrupt too, as is the AG and Sec of State.
    The only reason First Energy or the charter school scandal were prosecuted was because we have a federal department of justice. The entire state government failed.

  55. 55.

    Sally

    @Scout211: Wow, I’m am surprised. I really did think Putin would keep that till after the election. “Only trump”.

    It is very good news for these men. I am happy for them and their families. Home for Christmas. I wonder how the Biden team did it, given the politics.

  56. 56.

    Ken

    @Baud: Oh dear, voters might not like the policies and might have to vote again to change them. Horrifying. Thank goodness they have DeWine looking out for them, and an entire party dedicated to making sure they never vote again.

  58. 58.

    different-church-lady

    @Geo Wilcox:

    I saw his face just sort of glitch when she was talking.

    “A woman is asking me a question. Why is this happening? Why is she talking like she has a right to say something? I must insult her to get her to understand she has no right to talk.”

  59. 59.

    TBone

    Al Franken:

    I looked into it. Kamala has always claimed to be both Indian and Black.  Like how Trump has always been both white and a weird asshole.

  62. 62.

    Layer8Problem

    @Baud: If simple Good v. Evil or Anti-Fascism v. Fascism isn’t enough to move the needle with voters, I’m down with backing Young, Smart, and Non-Miserable.

  63. 63.

    Baud

    Remember when Republicans accused Dems of being obsessed with identity politics? Good times.

  65. 65.

    Soprano2

    @Geo Wilcox: One of his many, many weaknesses is that he’s not used to being challenged because he only goes on friendly shows and only talks to friendly publications, so when he’s challenged he gets angry.

  69. 69.

    Gin & Tonic

    I am reading reports that Evan Gershkovich is on his way home. Looks like old man Biden still has some mojo

    ETA: looks like I’m late to the party, as usual.

  70. 70.

    different-church-lady

    It occurs to me there’s a matchup advantage that’s emerged: Trump has always been racist, but this is the first time he’s run directly against a non-white.

    In the past two campaigns the press could dismiss the racism because it had no direct connection to the horse race. But now that it becomes a direct attack on the opponent, it lands front and center, and the rest of MAGA has no choice but to follow him down into the sewer. They’ve got to embrace the racism because that’s the direct attack line.

    If we’re lucky it will horrify the undecideds enough to tip this thing.

  72. 72.

    Kay

    Just to give you an idea of how corrupt Ohio Republicans are – the plan with the FirstEnergy scandal was for FirstEnergy to give Republicans tens of millions of dollars in donations and in return Republicans would front them one billion in public money. Republicans and FirstEnergy would then ADD A SURCHARGE to Ohio energy bills to cover both the cost of the donations to Republicans and the one billion dollars the state handed out. We were going to be paying GOP campaign expenses on our utility bills. This is how much absolute contempt they have for the people of this state.

    It almost worked! The ONLY reason it didn’t is they stiffed a thief running a fake grass roots campaign and he went to the FBI and wore a wire in revenge.

  73. 73.

    TBone

    PSA:  Summer Under the Stars day one on TCM features William Powell all day.

    I have a huge crush, obvs.

    Also:  Happy Disability Pride month to everyone, especially Fred Trump, Jr.

  75. 75.

    Soprano2

    @Ken: I don’t think they’d even have to do that. TCFG would let them do whatever they want as long as he gets to do what he wants.

  77. 77.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Scout211: I hope that’s true! It would be such good news.

    ETA: And this is less important than Gershkovick’s release, but I hope Trump chokes on the news. He intended to let the guy sit in a Russian prison until he could claim the release as good news for himself.

  79. 79.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Baud:

    I have been thinking exactly the same thing! Can it be done, do you know? Has it ever happened before?

  81. 81.

    Kay

    @TBone:

    There’s a (white) Republican who went to grade school with Harris – public school in CA- and she says they went to a public school that integrated voluntarily (prior to federal order) and Harris was always, always a Black student.

    It’s such a dumb lie. I think she was President of the Black law students assoc in law school.

  84. 84.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: *Waves hand* Oh Missouri, your forgot Missouri. They’ve controlled the state legislature for 20 years, and had a supermajority this year, and yet couldn’t get what they said their most important priority was passed. They had a trigger law ready for when Roe was overturned, and ran to implement it within hours of the Dobbs ruling. They spend months trying to convince the court that an amendment guaranteeing reproductive rights would cost the state $11 billion dollars! One of their candidates for governor actually wrote an op-ed where he said “Republicans have controlled this state for 20 years and things aren’t fixed. Vote for me (another Republican) and I’ll fix them”. I think the only reason they haven’t passed as many crazy laws as Florida is that they’re too busy fighting with each other over silly things like who loves TCFG the most and who else is a big liberal. LOL

  86. 86.

    Kay

    My IBEW son says the electricians are talking about Trump’s sound set up at his (outdoor) rallies. They say he’s using a crane with speaker stacks – which is not safe or correct – and he’s doing that because he stiffed the professional sound people/electricians in his last camapign so no one good will work for him. Apparently there’s a way to set up sound systems that is safe and correct and is recognizable in a photo.

    Next time I see him I want to ask him to point it out to me in pictures.

  87. 87.

    Soprano2

    @Jeffro:   It lowers the conversation and it plays into the Democrats’ narrative that this election is about political revenge for Mr. Trump.

    What bullshit, TCFG himself says in his speeches that he wants retribution against his enemies! We didn’t make that up!

    ETA – Hasn’t Sununu noticed that the whole Republican brand is built around personal attacks on Democrats? They’ve been doing it for decades, did he just awake from a 30 year slumber?

  91. 91.

    Soprano2

    @Scout211: Wow, the ketchup is going to be flying today, since TCFG claimed he was the only one who could get that reporter back.

  92. 92.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @different-church-lady:

    They’ve got to embrace the racism because that’s the direct attack line.  If we’re lucky it will horrify the undecideds enough to tip this thing.

    We can only hope.  The GQP’s traditional leadership has always hated the fact that Felonious D says the inside words in public.

    It always goes back to the evil genius of Lee Atwater.  Despite the racist crazies being the key players in the party since the Orange Fart Cloud ran in 2016, they’ve never typically gone full bore “Look at all that blackity-black on the uppity woman.”

    We can only hope that their so unself-aware of the potential political impact this might have that they keep it up and it has the impact you mention.

    Of course getting our Failed Corporate Media Corpse to report on this like they reported on Biden’s age and mental capacity post-debate is another question.

  93. 93.

    Kay

    @TBone:

    Isn’t that scary? As long as his fat ass is safe he won’t care. He joked yesterday about that poor man who took a bullet for him. Even the cultists were horrified.

  94. 94.

    Baud

    It occurs to me that the media, when they were going after Biden, really believed the replacement would be someone other than Kamala.  They seem to be caught flat footed.  At least that’s the impression I’m getting.

  95. 95.

    JWR

    Cornell Belcher
    @cornellbelcher
    There’s something happening… last night this campaign moved in the direction of a movement. It vibrates different, its rhythm is different, it’s gaining cultural significance that resonates beyond conventional political metrics. It’s becoming a vibe. GOP has no answer for this

    This got me thinking that this whole Kamala surge is sort of like the rise of a pop star, like Taylor swift or Beyonce, or a rock band back in my day. But it’s a whole of culture shift, such that everyone above the age of 5, all over the world, seems to know about them. They’re big, like force of nature big, and Harris seems to be building just such a movement. How can we lose when she’s a Rock Star?!!

  98. 98.

    Gin & Tonic

    I saw another report that Vladimir Kara-Murza might be involved in this prisoner swap. That would be very good news for him, as his health was really deteriorating.

  100. 100.

    catclub

    @Mousebumples: Trump’s bombastic bullshit like claiming he was the greatest president for Black people since Abraham Lincoln.

     

    He was also the greatest president for North Korean Dictators and Vladimir Putin since GWBush

  101. 101.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: It’s a dumb lie and it’ll fall flat, because anyone who was raised in our culture and looks at Harris knows that she’s black. I mean c’mon……

    I found out yesterday that our caregiver was adopted – she’s originally from Liberia. She said she was about a year old when her family adopted her. She has a foster brother because her family had foster kids too as well as their own kids. I told her she’s had a much more interesting life than I have!

  102. 102.

    TBone

    @Kay: he doesn’t understand or even comprehend electricity.  Or magnets. Or anything, really, except his own needs and how to temporarily satisfy his yawning, gaping hole maw of personality defects.

  104. 104.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I saw that, it’s one of the problems psychopaths have. They’re unaware of normal conventions when it comes to things like that, because they only care about themselves. It’s one reason it’s easy to code him as “weird”, because no normal person would ever make a joke about something like that.

  105. 105.

    Kay

    I don’t know how many out and proud racists you talk to in your daily life but for me with my law practice it’s “several, daily”. Well, not “talk to”. Listen to. They talk.

    I don’t know if most not-weird people know this but racists have this big fear that non white people are pretending to be white or they might not recognize an ethnicity they hate because the “otherness” isn’t clear enough, hence their opposition to people marrying who they want to marry. Trump is a racist so he probably thinks this too. They need to know which group you’re in immediately so they can hate you.

  106. 106.

    Quadrillipede

    One thought I recently had is that maybe Donald is trying to lose the election. Maybe on some level he understands that if he does win, then there’s really nothing stopping his VP from walking into the Oval Office and straight-up strangling him in, say, late January 2025. Because then I guess that would lead to several years of court cases around whether that counts as an ‘official act’ by President Vance (who would probably be much more useful to Putin). I’d like to see Trump tried and incarcerated for his many crimes, so this election is actually a chance to help keep him alive until that can actually happen.

  107. 107.

    Scout211

    @Kay: It’s such a dumb lie.

    Yes, but a lie that his base will believe, unfortunately.

    I wish that Kamala Harris’ surrogates push another explanation for his lies.  The idea that his lies aren’t purposeful lies but are evidence of a man who has a poor grasp of facts and very little recall after facts are presented to him.

    Remember the many times over the years when he prefaced a statement with something like, “Not many people are aware of this . . “  And it’s some fact that pretty much everyone is aware of, like historical facts or even something that happened in recent times. It’s like a combination of toxic narcissism and memory issues that combine to make the words inside of his own head seem like facts to him.  

    Someone needs to ask him why he doesn’t know these things and why he can’t remember things.  Is his memory slipping?  Is he out of touch?

  108. 108.

    A Man for All Seasonings (formerly Geeno)

    @Lapassionara:

    Whenever I see that picture of Trump & Putin in Helsinki, I see speech bubbles ..

    Putin: Tell them your name.

    Trump: My name is Reek.

  109. 109.

    Baud

    @schrodingers_cat:

    From what I can tell, off this blog, many actual young people are disgruntled by old people as well. But I don’t know for sure. We’ll find out in November.

  110. 110.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    racists have this big fear that non white people are pretending to be white or they might not recognize an ethnicity they hate because the “otherness” isn’t clear enough

     
    Also their problem with trans folks, no?

  112. 112.

    glory b

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: The reason they’re winning is because he appeals to the people who can’t get it unless it’s said out loud.

    Remember, the first time he ran, he was far back in the pack until he called Mexicans a bunch of criminals & rapists.

    He shot up to number 1 right after and stayed there for the rest of the primary

    I remember Rachel Maddow worrying that there were far larger numbers of voters in the Republican primary than Democrats, even with the Bernie voters added in.

    She also noted that many of these were newly registered voters, mostly in exurban and rural areas, who were coming in JUST to vote for him, happy that he was saying the quiet part out loud and making a direct appeal to their racism.

  113. 113.

    Another Scott

    @Soprano2: Yup.

    I remember as a kid in the Atlanta suburbs in the early ’70s talking with some friends who were railing about Ted Kennedy’s “Senate Bill 1” that was going to take everyone’s guns and put people in camps and so forth.  Demonizing Democrats with made up garbage has been top of the list for them for a very, very long time.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  115. 115.

    Kay

    @Scout211:

    I think Harris, like Obama, probably knows how to defuse a racist attack because they have had to do it their whole lives. I was interested in her response but only because I wondered what she would do. What she did was stay on message, which I think is good.

  116. 116.

    Kay

    @Scout211:

    So, Obama giving the Philadelphia speech after the racist attacks on the Black minister. That was a big risk but he knew what to do.

  118. 118.

    Layer8Problem

    @Quadrillipede: ” . . . if he does win, then there’s really nothing stopping his VP from walking into the Oval Office and straight-up strangling him in, say, late January 2025.”

    Mind you, that might swing at least a few Republicans in Congress onto an impeachment and conviction of President Vance.  I mean, you know, for form’s sake.

  119. 119.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: With trans people there’s the additional fear that being sexually attracted to them might accidentally make YOU somehow gay, or at least not straight. It’s what all the most transphobic jokes in 20th-early 21st century comedy were about, which is how you can tell that it really made people nervous.

  122. 122.

    TBone

    I just found a meme of the orange Diaper Baby hot air balloon photoshopped into a photo of the Hindenburg blimp exploding.  It’s going across the nation today.

  125. 125.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud:

    It occurs to me that the media, when they were going after Biden, really believed the replacement would be someone other than Kamala.  They seem to be caught flat footed.  At least that’s the impression I’m getting.

    That’s why I didn’t want him gone! The public effort seemed to be focused on getting in someone who was not her.

  126. 126.

    artem1s

    @Kay: ​

    DeWine used to be normal.

    No he wasn’t. He’s always been this. He got sheltered from scrutiny when he was AG under Voinovich but he was instrumental in getting voucher initiatives passed that primarily benefited Catholic parochial schools. And he oversaw one of the most egregious uses of mandatory minimums to imprison thousands of young Black men for decades for what should have been minor drug charges. And he helped the Catholic Church cover up thousands of cases against pedophile priests. He managed to grab Metzenbaum’s Senate seat for two terms because the GOP smeared Joel Hyatt using butter email tactics. He has no moral or ethical platform of his own. He runs with the creepy weirdo set because it brings him power and money. He always has.​

  128. 128.

    Baud

    @schrodingers_cat:

    True, but the unrepresentative can still have influence over normies by spreading “bad vibes.” The only hard data we’ll have will be after the election.

  130. 130.

    hobbitdreams

    @zhena gogolia: The young people I encounter at our local university are much more open and accepting of diversity–including age–than many of their would-be mouthpieces on this blog.

  131. 131.

    Baud

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I thought it was unrealistic that it could be anyone but her, but I’m still taken back at how smooth, quick, and successful the transition has been.

  132. 132.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @TBone:

    he doesn’t understand or even comprehend electricity. Or magnets.

    I don’t think many people understand unpaired spins in electron shells or why iron’s unpaired spins are special.

  133. 133.

    WereBear

    @Geo Wilcox: Not to me. Too many guys like him out there.

    Women aren’t people. I think that’s what the GOP is really running on this year.

    PENT

    UP

    DEMAND

    and Harris is a wonderful messenger.

  136. 136.

    Thor Heyerdahl

    @Kay: Republicans in Ohio have been responsible for both of the largest corruption scandals in state historyy – Number one (First Energy) and Number two (charter school chain) – and both occurred in the last 10 years.

    And for OH GOP corruption within the last 20-ish years there was Coingate

  138. 138.

    Kay

    @hueyplong:

    I will! His birthday is coming up so he’ll probably wander into town around that day. He lives in Toledo – about an hour from me.

    He’s sort of a normie Dem. He’s also a pollworker which I was just thrilled about. They watched me do pollwork so I like to think it rubbed off. He said he’s the youngest in his polling place “By 50 years” but he’s exaggerating to tease me. It’s probably 30 years :)

  140. 140.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Kay:

    He joked yesterday about that poor man who took a bullet for him. Even the cultists were horrified.

    I missed that. What did he say? Do you have a link?

  142. 142.

    hueyplong

    @WereBear: I thought I was beyond being shocked, but the No Chemo For Bitchez thing freaks me out.

    That should be front and center for a while.

  145. 145.

    catclub

    @Frankensteinbeck: yeah, nobody understands electricity and magnetism.   Tell me who looks at maxwell’s equations and responds: “Lightning!, Ball Lightning!, Solar Flares,  pulsars!”

  148. 148.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Baud:

    the media, when they were going after Biden, really believed the replacement would be someone other than Kamala.

    Because that was the most fun outcome for them.  Someone used the term ‘fanfic politics’ and that’s absolutely what it was.  It struck me watching the honestly liberal newscasters on MSNBC.  They might want Democrats to win, but they absolutely loved the exciting idea that Biden might be kicked out and who knew what fireworks would go off replacing him?  They were drooling over the fact that Biden didn’t endorse Harris in his resignation letter.  The pundit class found a Biden/Trump rematch boring, and all they cared about was forcing the election into something fun to cover.

  149. 149.

    Kay

    @Thor Heyerdahl:

    Compare Coingate to the amount of money in the charter school scandal or FirstEnergy. Coingate wouldn’t even make a ripple now – using straw man donors? Pfft. That’s business as usual now. It has gotten worse every single year.

  151. 151.

    artem1s

    @Jeffro: 

    I’ve met countless people who have never voted for Mr. Trump before

    No one who couldn’t be bothered to get off their asses and vote in the past 10 years is going to start now. They are beyond disengaged. They aren’t independents anymore than GOP Never Trumpers are.

  152. 152.

    Matt McIrvin

    @JWR: I’m dreading the backlash. When it’s some kind of big emotional rock-star wave, there has to be a crash at some point, right? The next act is the great disillusionment and the dogpile on the rock star for being bad after all. And you know the media are looking for that angle. We just don’t know what it is yet, though I have several ideas that I’m afraid to express.

  154. 154.

    Quadrillipede

    @Frankensteinbeck: I don’t think many people understand unpaired spins in electron shells or why iron’s unpaired spins are special.

    The harder you look at reality, the weirder it seems to be…

  155. 155.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @schrodingers_cat:

    To really understand magnetism you need some heavy duty quantum mechanics and statistical mechanics.

    People joked about “Fucking magnets, how do they work?” and the people making the jokes don’t know how magnet works.  They know ‘positive pulls on negative’.  The song is right – the world is full of magic, things the person viewing it doesn’t understand at all, but do cool things anyway.

    EDIT – @RevRick:

    To really understand how our eyes see colors

    You don’t have to go down very far with magnets to get to crazy math and quantum physics.  ‘Positive and negative pull’ to ‘iron can be made permanently magnetic’ to ‘wtf is an unpaired electron spin hold on lots of atoms have those so why is iron special’.  Literally one step down from ‘how does a magnet work’.

  156. 156.

    Eduardo

    @Sally: 100 percent! Maybe she could add that his husband is Jewish/White also.

    But it is necessary to reclaim the Americanness of her story.  It will work because it is so true, and because it is beautiful and because it is one of those things that make America great.

    Don’t get into explaining why she is this or that or saying he is mean.  Go on the offense.

  157. 157.

    catclub

    @SiubhanDuinne: What did he say?

     

    Apparently Mrs Camperatore said that even though she was given a million dollars, she would rather have her husband back alive.  Trump ‘joked’ that there are many wives who would  prefer the money. [ Melania for instance.]

  161. 161.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    though I have several ideas that I’m afraid to express.

    This comment is like peak Matt McIrvin :)

    Don’t be afraid to say anything you want. It’s a political blog, not command central of the universe. Nothing bad will happen.

  162. 162.

    Splitting Image

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    How do you watch that interview with Drumpf and conclude Harris is the one with a problem?

    He was as bad in the debate last month and the consensus quickly emerged that his opponent was the one who needed to quit. Can’t blame the media for trying the same trick again when it worked the first time.

  163. 163.

    p.a.

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:And this is less important than Gershkovick’s release, but I hope Trump chokes on the news. He intended to let the guy sit in a Russian prison until he could claim the release as good news for himself.

     

     

    The ronnie fuckin’ reagan playbook

  164. 164.

    hueyplong

    @catclub: You’ve got to be kidding. That’s inhuman.

    95 or so more days of Trump saying the malignantly narcissistic/sociopathic things out loud with ever-increasing regularity may be more than even the FTFNYT can ignore.

  165. 165.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Frankensteinbeck: Intro physics classes make you feel like you know how magnetism works because they talk about it in terms of classical current loops, and then you get strange statements like “magnetic forces do no work” when clearly, in many real-world situations, they do (Angela Collier did a YouTube video about that recently). But of course classical current loops are not what you have in a magnetic material–there’s subtle quantum statistical mechanics stuff going on.

  167. 167.

    Soprano2

    I’m listening to the interview, and just WOW. He has the nut of an argument for some of these things, but he can’t quit whining about how everything is so unfair. He whined about Democrats changing our candidate, it was unfair. He was asked a question about why a police officer like the one who shot the woman in her home last week should have immunity (because he’s said that), and he went off on a tangent about the amount of shootings in Chicago last week. You can tell he’s used to the friendly interviews on places like Fox News where they want him to ramble with his talking points. He has no idea how to do a real interview with real reporters who ask real questions.

    ETA – he calls news reporting “publicity”. He keeps complaining about them being late.

  172. 172.

    artem1s

    @Kay:

    It almost worked!

    It did work. Ohioans are still paying the surcharge. FirstEnergy hasn’t shut down their failing nuclear power plant.

    DeWine could have moved to have HB6 struck down when Householder was indicted. But no, the former OH AG couldn’t figure out how that could possible work. FirstEnergy has been getting the money all this time. You think they haven’t been bribing GOPers left and right to keep this out of civil court? In what way did it not work out for First Energy and the countless GOPers who have been undoubtedly lining their war chests with FE donations?

  173. 173.

    Steve LaBonne

    @Soprano2: I’m increasingly in the camp that he really can’t respond to questions because in his current state of cognitive decline he is not able to pay attention to a question long enough to understand it.

  174. 174.

    Steve LaBonne

    @artem1s:DeWine should fucking be in prison. I’m so sick of the moron voters who keep voting for these crooks as they loot and destroy our state.

  175. 175.

    suzanne

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    And this is less important than Gershkovick’s release, but I hope Trump chokes on the news. He intended to let the guy sit in a Russian prison until he could claim the release as good news for himself. 

    I had a similar thought: that I was thrilled that he and Whelan were being freed, and that Trump would be livid that Biden did it.

  176. 176.

    catclub

    @Kay: Don’t be afraid to say anything you want.

     

    I am on Matt’s side here. Don’t express everything your mind comes up with.

  177. 177.

    Soprano2

    Boy, TCFG is bad at understanding what the question is and answering it. I can’t believe how badly he flubbed the “Is your VP ready on day one?” question especially because of the setup the reporter gave him about how she interviewed him about who his VP would be right before he was shot at and said “Bad things happen, that’s why this choice is important”. I think he’s used to just babbling his talking points and has no idea how to answer an actual question.

    ETA – he claimed Democrats execute babies! Why does the press let him just say that?

  178. 178.

    catclub

    @Steve LaBonne: I’m so sick of the moron voters who keep voting for these crooks as they loot and destroy our state.

     

    aka Our fellow citizens..
    or as Adlai Stevenson put it. “But I need a majority.”

  179. 179.

    Kay

    @artem1s:

    I meant they got caught. I agree it’s horribly corrupt. The key is redistricting though. It’s not sufficient but it’s necessary. You cannot win in Ohio until they fix the field to make that possible.

    This is my last Ohio election. INext cycle I’ll be a Michigan resident. I just won’t waste my own time like that. The money kills me. I’m a frugal person and I will not pay for their corruption.

    But the first step is redistricting. My middle son is staying – he loves Toledo and bought a house there. Maybe he’ll get involved. I’m done.

  180. 180.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Looks like I’m not the only person who noticed that the only potential VP contender Progressives are currently smearing as a deal-breaker, is the Jewish guy (even though he’s been MORE outspoken against Netanyahu and his stance on Gaza is the same as the rest of the contenders):

    Today, Shapiro is the only veep contender subject to an organized campaign to capsize his prospective nomination. Put together by hard-left congressional staffers and members of Democratic Socialists of America, among others, the push is ostensibly about Shapiro’s support for Israel. “Tell Kamala and the Democrats now,” reads the site NoGenocideJosh.com, “say no to Genocide Josh Shapiro for Vice President.”

    Anti-Israel partisans have every right to advocate against candidates who oppose their cause, and there’s nothing inherently anti-Semitic about doing so. But as its name implies, the “Genocide Josh” campaign is not about applying a single standard on Palestine to all VP contenders; it’s about applying them to one person, who just so happens to be the only Jew on the shortlist. And to make matters more absurd, Shapiro’s positions on Israel don’t come close to fitting the epithet.

    “I personally believe Benjamin Netanyahu is one of the worst leaders of all time,” Shapiro told reporters in January, months before Democratic Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer called for the Israeli leader to resign. At the time, Shapiro also pressed for an “immediate two-state solution,” something Netanyahu and his hard-right government stridently oppose. The anti-Shapiro campaign ignores these remarks but makes much of the governor’s comparison of campus Gaza protesters to “people dressed up in KKK outfits.” When he said that in an interview, however, Shapiro was distinguishing between bigoted extremists—such as the Columbia campus-protest leader who called for killing “Zionists”—and peaceful demonstrators, about whom the governor has said, “It’s right for young people to righteously protest and question.”…

    That all of these politicians support Israel should not come as a surprise. After all, Harris is searching for a moderate to help her win swing voters in states that are currently polling in the Trump column. Although some Democrats have grown more critical of Israel, Americans back the country by a two-to-one margin and oppose the recent campus protests, which means that any VP nominee considered by Harris would likely share such views.
    And yet, activists have not organized in force to discredit any of the non-Jewish contenders for vice president on these grounds. There are no viral memes against “Killer Kelly” or “War-Crimes Walz.” Either the activists involved are extraordinarily lazy and never thought to investigate the other VP possibilities, or they think that Jews are uniquely untrustworthy. Seen in context, the “Genocide Josh” campaign and its tendentious reading of Shapiro’s record look less like a legitimate political critique than a rigged litmus test imposed on the Jewish lawmaker alone.

    Sadly, this selective stigmatization isn’t new to progressive politics…

    It has become hard to escape the conclusion that some of the activists imposing this inquisition have a problem not just with Israel or Zionism but with Jews, who they assume are serving a foreign power, no matter what they’ve actually said or done. Historically, this is nothing new. The white-nationalist right has long sought to stigmatize American Jews as subversive and exclude them from political life, arguing that Jews are loyal only to their own kind. In this case, however, some on the progressive left are the ones treating Jewish identity as inherently suspect and holding Jewish political actors to a different standard than their non-Jewish counterparts.

  181. 181.

    Frank Wilhoit

    @hueyplong: ​
     The Press know that Harris won’t play their game. Their own concept of themselves has been reduced to, if they can’t collect scalps, then they’re no use to anyone. They just collected their third scalp in 108 years, and it backfired on them. They’re disoriented and we need to keep them that way.

  184. 184.

    Kay

    @artem1s:

    I think Sherrod is ahead and will win because everyone who knows anything thinks that, but I also know we have to recognize that Sherrod and Marcy Kaptur (my rep) are their own “brand” and are not subject to Ohio turning redder. Kaptur is 78, too. She’s sharp as a tack- I listened to a longish radio interview with her with a good reporter who asked real questions and she’s as smart and articulate as she’s always been, but this is probably her last cycle.

  187. 187.

    Kay

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    The other candidates didn’t compare protestors to the KKK. I don’t agree with the opposition to him – I think his stances on public education and taxes are worse than anything he said on IP, but you’re selectively quoting.

  188. 188.

    H.E.Wolf

    @schrodingers_cat: ​If anyone is interested. Sangay Mishra, who is pol sci prof. has written about KH’s dual identities

     Thank you! I’d read KH’s memoir when it came out before her first presidential run, and I’m glad to have this synopsis of the dual identities.

    Also, very off-topic, this is a link to a Schrödinger’s Cat illustration created from Schrödinger’s equation(s). Been saving it for you. :)
    https://nitter.poast.org/PhysInHistory/status/1817958573043065104#m

  191. 191.

    Sally

    I am looking at Kevin Rothrock on Bluesky for the Ru prisoner swap. It looks like a Big Biden Deal. At least a dozen prisoners released from Ru, various nationals, and more that a dozen, maybe sixteen, released to Ru, including some nasties. Includes prisoners from Poland, Slovenia, Germany, Norway and the USA. That must have taken some negotiating

    Ed: I have my numbers around the wrong way. Sixteen released from Ru, and eight to Ru.

  194. 194.

    Soprano2

    So wow, that interview was a dumpster fire. It’s also notable that as soon as one of the reporters said something about Project 2025 it was all “We have to wrap it up per the TCFG team”. LOL Everyone should listen to that interview just to remind themselves how weird and nutty he is, and how whiny he is

    ETA – You can tell there is the nut of an actual argument in there somewhere, a better more disciplined person could make the case but TCFG can’t help himself he wants to whine constantly about how things are so unfair to him so the argument gets buried under that crap. Only his cult members will think that’s OK, everyone else will go “huh?” This applies to pretty much everything he’s asked about.

  197. 197.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: Okay, #1 is: she picks Shapiro for running mate in a ticket-balancing move to get Pennsylvania’s electoral votes, the “Genocide Joe” movement revives to destroy Harris and the nationwide youth support that has been temporarily off the Israel/Palestine issue evaporates overnight. I’m sure the pick would actually signify very little about a Harris administration’s policy there, but I also think there’s probably going to be less daylight between her and Biden than the people hoping for a reset want, and suddenly that’d be what everyone is talking about.

    And, you know, all the meta-meta stuff we know well: is or is not opposing him for this antisemitic? Are people expressing it in an antisemitic way or aren’t they? Is letting it go anti-Palestinian? Are we going to have to argue around it when getting people to vote for Harris/Shapiro? It’d be a whole lot of Very Online Discourse at the very least. This is a wedge that divides the American left and unites the right (this is why I’m hesitant to even talk about it here). She can only keep her coalition together if the issue’s political salience is as low as possible and this would put it back in the spotlight.

    #2 is, the media start making clouds and shadows about her dad’s lefty economic politics to make him the scary figure like Obama’s pastor or Bill Ayers. But honestly I’m not so scared of that, it’s the kind of bullshit that tends to backfire.

  199. 199.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Or OMG one of their kids might date someone who isn’t white, and they can’t stand the thought of that!

  201. 201.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    The NABJ thing reminds me of an earlier incident. Might have been TFG in 2016 or 2020, ostensibly speaking to the NAACP but really he was showing his base that he can stand up to those people. That’s my take on this thing. Also, it’s hard to believe he thinks the line about he’s done more for black people than anyone in history will work on anyone in that room, but his base believes it.

  202. 202.

    Kay

    I think Shapiro should get the job because most people say he could add .5 to PA because he’s popular in the state and I’m risk averse, but his positions on public education and taxes are not mainstream in the Democratic Party – they’re further Right- so nothing other than that .5 advantages him.

    But as I said the .5 is probably important enough to pick him. And hope he has no influence on public education and taxes (which he won’t).

  203. 203.

    WereBear

    @Kay:

    He joked yesterday about that poor man who took a bullet for him. Even the cultists were horrified.

    I think many of them are looking at this from the outside, for the very first time in a long while.

    Just from the way it saturates certain corners and then gets in their own. Like watching Fox making excuses for Trump, as usual, but the cashier has a shirt with a weird word and a Democrat on it.

    The demons have obviously invaded the Pick Kwick.

    Reddit is reporting people going over to their parent’s house and they are watching comedies instead of Fox News. A phone call home and Trump is not mentioned, and they don’t bring it up, because they are starting to have hope. Former rally goers are considering new hobbies.

    Has the curse of mediocre white failsons finally started to lift?

  205. 205.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    There’s a lot more intermarriage in our rural area – my theory was “this will make them less racist” but it has made them more racist. Maybe there’s like a tipping point? Who knows with these fucking people. They’re weird :)

  206. 206.

    Citizen Dave

    @RevRick: I think there are well-run red states.  I’m a lifelong Hoosier and would say that overall Indiana is well-run.  Lately that’s due to 4 terms of a business wing style R governor (with one Pence term in the middle).  Lots of manufacturing successes etc.  Our Duke Energy scandal years ago was incredibly corrupt but limited to a few.  We’ll see what happens with the next Governor–likely our current trumper senator.

    The First Energy scandal is stunning to me every time I read about it (Thanks Kay for posting about it regularly).  I would add the Warren G Harding and the “Ohio Boys” Teapot Dome Scandal (another bribery scheme) to the list of Ohio Republican scandals.

  209. 209.

    TBone

    @Kay: I think people might be misunderstanding his positions.  He’s said unequivocally that anything that takes public funds away from public education is a non-starter.  He has added huge funding for public education in PA with his new budget, which was blocked by the PA Rethugs at every turn.  He is not anti-education in any sense.  As for the Middle East, I have nothing to add because that is not my wheelhouse.

  210. 210.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @TBone: ​
     

    the people closest to Trump, like LaCivita and Wiles, are not loyal to America First ideals.

    They’ve already embraced Gott mit uns and Kinder, Küche, Kirche. What other ideals is he looking for?

  213. 213.

    zhena gogolia

    Thank you, President Biden, for bringing us out of the pandemic, restoring the economy, rallying international support for Ukraine, passing landmark legislation, appointing a stellar cabinet and a stellar Vice President. We didn’t deserve you, but we don’t deserve Trump either. We’re somewhere in the middle.

  214. 214.

    Greebe

    @Ken:

    Cue Trump: ”I would have made that deal months ago. They would never been in a Russian prison if I’d been president.“ in 3..2..1..

  215. 215.

    WereBear

    @Kay: I had this dramatically brought clear to me when I was getting jobs under my maiden name. Discovered in my birth state it was regarded as a White one, while the place I was in now regarded it as a Black one.

    It’s an incredibly common name. It’s all assumptions. And when Heidi shows up, the reactions were often… interesting.

  216. 216.

    Princess

    Theory from a guy on Facebook:

    Trump wasn’t doing some clever/stupid racializing move yesterday when he said he thought Harris was Indian and now he finds out she is claiming to be Black. He is literally confusing her for Nikki Hailey. He is genuinely perplexed and unsure who he is running against now.

    If true: His brain is marshmallows. This is indeed a very Alzheimer’s-type confusion to make. This might suggest that all the working the refs they were doing about Biden’s cognitive ability (which are fine, though his body is weak) was all projection, all deflection to conceal from people what bad shape Trump is in. They thought they could ride it until November, but they never expected Biden would actually drop out. No wonder they are flailing. If this is true.

  218. 218.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: I recall some kind of survey on anti-immigrant attitudes that concluded that they were worst in places where the number of visible immigrants was still low but rapidly increasing–so that the change in percentage was large. That reminds me of this. There’s some kind of range of frequency where “they’re taking over!” becomes a huge fear.

  219. 219.

    RedDirtGirl

    Rachel Maddow had a segment recently highlighting how Trump has been saying at his rallies that he doesn’t need people’s votes. This is different from him saying vote one more time and then you won’t need to vote again. He has said multiple times that “I don’t need your votes”. And she links it to the Rolling Stone article about the over 70 election officials that are election denialists, many of them working in swing states. She points out that he doesn’t have to win with votes if the votes don’t get certified. It was a horrifying segment. Sorry I don’t have links, I’m at work.

    ETA: I’ll see if I can find the Maddow segment.

  221. 221.

    rusty

    @Baud: Within a day or so of the debate, people who ran national campaigns and knew what the hell they were talking about were saying the only realistic alternative was Harris. (Access to already collected campaign money, campaign infrastructure, ballot access etc.)  What so angered me about the NYT and WP was their offering of an alternative open primary.  It really was Biden or Harris.  Thankfully it looks like the insiders (Pelosi, Schumer, etc.) very much understood this and the end result was a smooth transition.  The political press is supposed to have some expertise on these issues.  They are either completely incompetent, or were really interested in undermining the Democrats and helping Trump (both is also a possible correct answer).  Either way, they burned any credibility.  They do seem genuinely surprised that Democrats have rallied behind Harris.  I still expect them to try to shiv her later, but that is later.

  222. 222.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @gvg: Maybe it’s the NYT’s and the WaPo that have cognitive decline.

    Nope. FTFNYT and WaPo have moral decline – they’ve tumbled from amorality (bad enough) to outright immorality in support of their fellow oligarchs.

    (A propos of nothing much, in a Dollar-And-A-Quarter-Tree [fuckers are too cheap to change the signs] the other day I saw they once again had diet cola on the rack, so I bought a few bottles. By the time I unloaded them I had a funny feeling something was amiss. Well, sir-prise, sir-prise, the label and the shape of the bottle are the same but the former 2.75 l bottle is now a 2 l bottle – for the same price. A stealth price increase of 37.5%. Shareholder value!! Hanging is too humane for those motherfuckers – they should be tossed into the street and repeatedly run over by SUVs.)

  223. 223.

    WereBear

    @Baud: If they know some of the ones I know, it’s no wonder.

    I spent childhood time around a lot of retirees. They like to wait for the bus and tell me about their lives. I was okay with it. (Apparently I have my mother’s tell-me-all-about-it face.)

    I did learn a lot. Oh, and a good grasp of Southern Gothic.

  224. 224.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I’m glad you said “half a dozen” because the issue here is not what Lefties in Los Angeles or Brooklyn or Boston say on the internet. We’ll carry those states. The issue is what people in PA, MI, AZ, NC, NV and WI think.

    As I have said a million times I think I/P will not hurt us outside of MI, but it will hurt us in MI. So that has to be dealt with in some productive way. One thing they could so is shift some labor voters over to D. There are 250,000 in Michigan. Another thing would be to run up numbers of college students who do NOT think I/P is the single issue. MI has an advantage because MSU has a group of people who focus on young voters as part of their scholarship. Campaigns can find out a lot about young voters in MI.

  225. 225.

    Greebe

    @TBone

    @ 5:

    Goes to my theory that extremism in any form is going to be cannibalistic. It eventually and, seemingly, inevitably devours its own.

    Yum.

  227. 227.

    Kyle Rayner

    @Kay: I don’t know if most not-weird people know this but racists have this big fear that non white people are pretending to be white or they might not recognize an ethnicity they hate because the “otherness” isn’t clear enough

    Huh! Interesting. This actually explains a lot about the existence of gay/trans panic defenses. A fleeting window of clarity into those murky mindsets, thanks.

  228. 228.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    l’ve seen this firsthand in NW Ohio. There are many more Latinos in high school sports than there were – and they’re good – and there is real resentment from rural whites. People here love high school sports in a way outsiders might not understand. It’s a big part of their identity because remembver they didn’t go to college. High school is like college sports to them.

  229. 229.

    trollhattan

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    By knowing before even watching that Harris is the one with a problem. There’s gotta be one in here somewhere [shuffle, shuffle, shuffle].

    Our local paper, when they had prosaic things like a staff, had a beat writer assigned to the SF Giants. He wrote up each home game and summarize away games for years, then it was discovered he had been watched them on teevee from a local bar rather than making the drive to Candlestick and, you know, watching-watching the game, interviewing players and coaches, gathering amusing anecdotes of things that happen at the park during all that downtime between pitches and innings.

    Our Professional Politics Journalists are mostly like him.

  230. 230.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: Right. Going from Biden to Harris seemed to be a gigantic boost in MI because people’s beef there over Israel was specifically with Biden, not with Democrats.

    What concerns me is that that’s actually not 100% rational; I don’t think there’s going to be a huge difference between Biden and Harris on this issue and I suspect there’s going to be a reckoning there at some point

    And, yes, lefties in deep-blue states actually do not matter except inasmuch as the noise they make affects swing-state votes. But it could, here.

  231. 231.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @trollhattan: One of the audio books I’m listening to is Patrick Stewart’s memoir. During his brief journalism career, he pulled something similar to cover local news to free himself up for evening theater rehearsals. He was found out and canned. It worked out OK for him I think, though he’ll probably have a hard time getting a letter of recommendation if he wants to go back to local Yorkshire news.

  232. 232.

    SatanicPanic

    I don’t think Trump didn’t understand the question in the traditional sense. He’s a narcissist, questions for narcissists are just opportunities to talk. Trump responds positively if he perceives them to be “nice” or negatively if he thinks they’re “nasty”.

    I was raised by a narcissist. They don’t understand truth like other people.

  233. 233.

    sdhays

    @Kay: So, if we happen to live in the cartoon multiverse, Trump is going to be killed by a speaker falling on his head sometime in October.

  234. 234.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I have a neighbor who is LITERALLY like a celebrity in this town because he was a very good high school baseball player. He’s a nice man but frankly he lives in this fantasy. He’s no longer an athlete, putting it mildy, and he told me the other day he survived getting laid off at 60 “because I’m an athlete”

    Okay. WERE an athlete :)

  235. 235.

    p.a.

    @Kay: There’s a lot more intermarriage in our rural area – my theory was “this will make them less racist” but it has made them more racist. Maybe there’s like a tipping point? Who knows with these fucking people. They’re weird :)

     

     

    The changing definition of “whiteness…”

    Once you marry “them” (above a certain level),  presto-change-o: they’re white!  And bigotry is intact.  New target!

  237. 237.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    Also, it’s hard to believe he thinks the line about he’s done more for black people than anyone in history will work on anyone in that room, but his base believes it.

    Three important things.  First, he’s racist as shit, so he really does think black people are stupid.  Second, he completely believes the NYT poll that said he’s getting 30% of the black male vote.  Third, I have heard that his campaign is counting on that number.

    He actually went there thinking he could sling all that racist shit and the audience would buy it.

  238. 238.

    Scout211

    The vetting is getting serious:

    (NBC)    Sen. Mark Kelly, D-Ariz., met with Harris’ vetting team yesterday afternoon amid her selection process for a running mate, two sources familiar with Kelly’s movements told NBC News.

    It is unclear whether Harris herself was involved in the meeting, the sources said.

    Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro, who is also considered a potential running mate for Harris, also met with her vetting team yesterday, NBC News reported.

     

    And the roll call has begun:

    The Democratic National Committee’s virtual roll call to nominate Harris for president began today at 9 a.m. ET and will end Monday.

    DNC Chair Jaime Harrison announced Tuesday that only Harris qualified for the ballot and 3,923 delegates petitioned to put her on the ballot for the nomination. The DNC said that Harris secured the support of 99% of participating delegates.

    Democrats are holding the unusual pre-convention virtual roll call to finalize the nomination before an Aug. 7 ballot access deadline in Ohio.

  239. 239.

    sdhays

    @Uncle Cosmo: I don’t think it’s been noted on the blog so far that the current publisher of the Washington Post is now under criminal investigation in the UK for covering up crimes in his previous job.

    Moral decline, indeed.

  242. 242.

    rikyrah

    Pete Buttigieg (@PeteButtigieg) posted at 7:41 AM on Thu, Aug 01, 2024:
    Remember that all of this is a strategy. The politics of outrage and insult are the last refuge of a politician who cannot defend his own plans.

    David Darmofal (@david_darmofal) posted at 7:50 AM on Thu, Aug 01, 2024:
    Yep, I think we can see that this is a planned, coordinated campaign by Trump given Vance’s and Trump’s lawyer’s comments since then reinforcing this racist line of attack.
    (https://x.com/david_darmofal/status/1818992659622490384?t=t2Z32MN7rWGIfhlDIoOl4Q&s=03)

  244. 244.

    suzanne

    @Matt McIrvin:

    This is a wedge that divides the American left and unites the right (this is why I’m hesitant to even talk about it here). 

    Can I note that I desperately want to push back against this idea that good-faith discussion of important issues is divisive?! I hate that this desire to look like we are In Array has led to self-silencing.

    This is just a blog comment section. We’re not responsible for projecting an image of “Democratic party unity”. We’re mostly nice people having a conversation.

  247. 247.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Scout211:

    Harris secured the support of 99% of participating delegates.

    Interesting.  I wonder who the holdouts were?  Some state with partial representation and a ‘none of the above’ option?  Just a couple of random assholes like you find in any group?

  248. 248.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    What concerns me is that that’s actually not 100% rational; I don’t think there’s going to be a huge difference between Biden and Harris on this issue and I suspect there’s going to be a reckoning there at some point

    Forgive me but I think this is arrogant. They know a lot about this issue. Since October Harris has been much more even handed than Biden, to the extent that there were either leaks or she herself was leaking her criticism of the Biden policy. I think people who vote 70% for Democrats should be afforded the respect that they know what they’re opposing.
    This can’t be dismissed. It has to be faced. The US funded catastrophe in Gaza is real and gets worse every day and the opposition to it is also real. They prefer Harris because they have real reasons to think she’s more evenhanded than Biden, who IMO is absolutely blind on this issue.

  250. 250.

    WereBear

    @Greebe: Because it reaches a point where they compete to out-extreme each other.

    When there is no moderating force, the ratchet of their minds makes it only tighter and more inflexible.

  252. 252.

    Anoniminous

    @Frankensteinbeck: ​

    {Trump] completely believes the NYT poll that said he’s getting 30% of the black male vote. Third, I have heard that his campaign is counting on that number.

    A twofer. First it is hysterically funny. Second it means the Times/Siena polls are Bullshit and can be ignored.

  254. 254.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    But I think they’re misguided on Shapiro. His support of vouchers and corporate tax cuts is worse than his opposition to the protestors. The voucher thing is just bewildering to me. WTF? It’s not just bad for the Dem brand it’s a hugely unpopular position with normies.

    But I’m pro Shapiro because we need PA. I want to win.

  256. 256.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    Just to give you an idea of how corrupt Ohio Republicans are – the plan with the FirstEnergy scandal was for FirstEnergy to give Republicans tens of millions of dollars in donations and in return Republicans would front them one billion in public money.

     

    But, Kay….is this even a bribe, according to the Supreme Court?

  258. 258.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    I’m afraid he’s losing his normie status. He pays for the NYTimes though AND listens to NPR. He loves newspapers and he’s still mourning the late, great WSJ so I can’t give him shit for his NYTimes addiction.

    I mimic the cool jazz tones of the NPR newsies to make him laugh.

  259. 259.

    suzanne

    @Baud: I am pushing back on this idea that we have to avoid discussion of important things because we’re somehow representatives of something and that we need to “set a tone” or some other nonsense. We’re not representatives of anything other than our viewpoints and no one’s here in an official capacity. That way leads to groupthink.

  261. 261.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    My IBEW son says the electricians are talking about Trump’s sound set up at his (outdoor) rallies. They say he’s using a crane with speaker stacks – which is not safe or correct – and he’s doing that because he stiffed the professional sound people/electricians in his last camapign so no one good will work for him

     

    I believe it. People are asking for their money up front, which is why he can’t do indoor events.

  262. 262.

    BR

    Great post from one of my favorite people on Mastodon:

    How do you tell the “good weird” from the “bad weird” it’s super simple.

    Good weird says, yeah, I know this is weird but it’s fine for me. I know everyone isn’t like this. Just let me be.

    The bad one says: this isn’t even weird and you ought to know that, you ought to be like me. I’ll force you if that’s what it takes.

    https://sauropods.win/@futurebird/112886298486605514

  268. 268.

    WereBear

    Is the GOP itself desperately trying to pivot? While they don’t know how?

    I’ve been listening to the Youtube/Podcast Shrinking Trump, where two mental health experts have gerontologists and dementia specials on to talk about Trump’s Brain.

    Which I now imagine as Donovan’s Brain, for all you B movie fans, only it’s floating belly up in its tank.

    Too long, didn’t listen: He’s having real mental and psychical difficulties, while stress and pressure make it worse.

    Get him at an evening thing, since he is sundowning, and he will handle it about as well as he did last night.

  270. 270.

    hueyplong

    @trollhattan: Having attended 40 or so games at Candlestick, I can understand someone more rational than me deciding that TV was the better part of valor.

  271. 271.

    Kay

    @suzanne:

    Me too. Matt is a worrier. He’s allowed and he might be worrying about something we haven’t thought of. It’s also super common among normie Dems. Arguably he’s much closer to a normie Dem than the cheerleaders.

  274. 274.

    rikyrah

    The White House (@WhiteHouse) posted at 3:42 PM on Wed, Jul 31, 2024:
    Today, President Biden was briefed on the implementation of the Inflation Reduction Act’s assistance for farmers and ranchers who experienced discrimination in farm loan programs. This new action will enable more farmers and ranchers to support themselves, help grow the economy, https://t.co/J2kciZCYo8
    (https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1818749179386057043?t=F3OnspGl81YmBvWJ5Op9IQ&s=03)

  276. 276.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    OT but since it’s an open thread: I go under the knife tomorrow for the first of two cataract surgeries. You might remember I announced that was going to happen in April. The day before I was scheduled to begin pre-surgery prep, my eye doctor called me into her office to inform me her practice was shutting down, effective immediately. Had to scramble to get up and running with a new doc and get rescheduled.

    Not going to go into what happened, that’s her business.

  277. 277.

    rikyrah

    Patrick Gaspard (@patrickgaspard) posted at 6:48 AM on Thu, Aug 01, 2024:
    Yesterday Trump told the world to stop lying about his movement. It’s always been about racial purity and a demographic elegy that his followers see him as the last hope against. It’s never been a side hustle. Race is the beating heart of his project. So let’s stop lying about it

     

    Patrick Gaspard (@patrickgaspard) posted at 6:52 AM on Thu, Aug 01, 2024:
    All the amazement this morning that Trump didn’t discuss “policies” at NABJ is laughable. Racism is the policy. Cruelty is the point. Misogyny rhymes with it all.
    (https://x.com/patrickgaspard/status/1818978163642274260?t=PyzsXKlQ6d9vqNUSXhfYLQ&s=03)

  278. 278.

    catclub

    @Matt McIrvin: and loses .5 in half a dozen other states?

    well, losing 0.5 in California, NY, MA, VT, CONN, RI

    VA, IL, OR, WA,  would be a pretty good trade for those PA electoral votes. I think the closest one in the list is VA

  281. 281.

    Captain C

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    How do you watch that interview with Trump and conclude Harris is the one with a problem?

    You’re afflicted with an incurable case of FTFNYT Brain.  Also, you probably don’t get out much.

  284. 284.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @schrodingers_cat: Yup.  And it’s gonna be ugly because sadly, a lot of Anti-Semitic framings and stances have found cover in the academic/social-justice language of: Imperialism, Colonialism, Occupier/Occupied, Oppressor/Oppressed, PoC (Palestinians) Vs. White (Israeli/Jewish) social justice language.

  285. 285.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    I’m not against Shapiro, and I’d be all for him..

    If Governor Santa Claus hadn’t of snuck up outta nowhere to just wow me.

     

    I love his background, but, what I love most is his ability to do

    “Muthaphucka please” , in that Minnesota nice way, and nobody gives him shyt for it.

  287. 287.

    Bugboy

    @SatanicPanic: I wasn’t really sure about it because he’s combing it over the tops of his ears now, but MSNBC has a very clear shot and it’s, well it looks intact to me…

  288. 288.

    suzanne

    @Kay: Matt’s a smart dude. He worries because he keenly observes others. I strongly relate. And there have absolutely been silencing tactics at work around here.

  290. 290.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: I’m a worrier, also a mostly normie Dem with an unusual tendency to not dismiss online-Left-with-a-capital-L people, because of accidents of history and who my friends are. So I get sensitive to stuff that evokes a torrent of shit from them.

  292. 292.

    tam1MI

    @Matt McIrvin: I’m dreading the backlash. When it’s some kind of big emotional rock-star wave, there has to be a crash at some point, right? The next act is the great disillusionment and the dogpile on the rock star for being bad after all. And you know the media are looking for that angle. We just don’t know what it is yet, though I have several ideas that I’m afraid to express.

    Tom Cotton is already attacking her on being a gigantic hypocrite because ” she served as Vice President to a man she accused of being a racist”. I knew the “that little girl was me” gaffe was going to come back to bite her the second she started running for something again. The good news here is that she has had four years to figure out a way to respond to an attack like that. (And that in the famous debate exchange she pointedly did not say that Biden was a racist).

  293. 293.

    suzanne

    @Baud: What’s wrong with consternation? I mean, of course, feel free to say or not say what you want, but I would hope that you would feel that you would be treated with good faith here.

  295. 295.

    rikyrah

    Go Rev. Senator!!!

    That’s a preacher, right there!

     

    Acyn

    @Acyn

    Warnock: Trump doesn’t even recognize the sad irony of his remark. In a real sense Kamala Harris’s story is an iteration of the American story, the diversity that is among us and often within us and that is the American story— Out of many one, E pluribus unum. She carries that literally in her veins and in that sense, he doesn’t know who we are and if you don’t know us then you can’t represent us, you certainly can’t lead us

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1818853576313307249

  300. 300.

    Kay

    I think Gaza hurt Biden among a broader group than the pro Palestinian protestors or usual-suspect Lefties.

    I think his coldness towards Palestinian civilian casualties as compared to his clear anguish towards Israeli civilian casualties went against one of his core positive elements as a pol  – decency, sympathy and being humane. There was no way to reconcile that with his policy or he or his team’s statements and actions (or lack of actions).

    But that’s my theory. I don’t know if anyone agrees.

  301. 301.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @suzanne: ​
      Who shares every thought that they have? I have a lot of thoughts on a lot of things that I have no interest in sharing here. Some, I might share elsewhere. Some are mine alone.

  302. 302.

    Captain C

    @hueyplong:

    95 or so more days of Trump saying the malignantly narcissistic/sociopathic things out loud with ever-increasing regularity may be more than even the FTFNYT can ignore.

    They’ll find a way.  The WaPo, on the other hand, may actually come around to something resembling reality rather than their own fever dreams of ever-increasing clicks.

  303. 303.

    Dangerman

    A few back of the envelope calculations:

    97 days to Election Day

    Assuming continued good news for us and bad news  for them, 62 days after that for the Shenanigans, Lawsuits, and a few more Ashley Babbit’s too stupid to realize that, yes, even if you are White, you can get your ass shot off

    Another 14 days after that to Inauguration

    With any fortune, a few hours after that, the current version of the Republican Party is burnt to the ground, the MAGAts are told to go pound sand, and politics will normalize …

    … or, perhaps, the Sweet Meteor of Death takes us out. Similar odds, perhaps.

  304. 304.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    Here’s the view on the NABJ event from the RW echo chamber, courtesy of Wonkette. (Don’t worry, you’re only give the click to Wonkette, no RW sites). You may be surprised to learn that TFG “crushed it”.

    And here’s a somewhat different view from a Republican strategist with at least one foot in the reality-based universe. “He did crap the bed today. The only question is whether he’s gonna roll around in it or get up and change the sheets.”

  305. 305.

    tam1MI

    @Kay: Next cycle I’ll be a Michigan resident.

    As a natural born Michigander, I urge you to take some time next summer to visit what we traded away Toledo for – the wild and beautiful Upper Peninsula. It’s pretty awesome. 😎😎😎

  306. 306.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    I like him too but I think it’s probably correct that Harris has to go somewhat Right to win. I know labor wants Santa Claus or the Kentucky guy but they know the VP doesn’t matter as far as policy. We need white suburban voters too and they’re not populists. Shapiro strikes me as someone they will like.

    I’m with Pelosi. Just win.

  307. 307.

    Belafon

    @rikyrah: My opposition to Shapiro is mainly his voucher stance. But I like Walz because he is able to speak about issues the way Biden can, simple and direct and yet not diminish the complexity of the problems.

  308. 308.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Kay:

    I have a neighbor who is LITERALLY like a celebrity in this town because he was a very good high school baseball player.

    Just my opinion but I think half of it is the sports and the other half is midwest insularity. I went to high school in St. Louis…when I visit my family there and mention to (say) a bartender that I grew up in the area, usually the question I get is “where’d you go to high school?” I’ve lived on both coasts, St. Louis and Colorado and St. Louis was the cliquiest by far. Somehow, where you went to high school is a marker.

  309. 309.

    Princess

    @Princess: Also too: Trump has confused Hailey and Harris before. He identified a policy of Hailey’s as a policy of Harris’s on July 24 — related to the retirement age.

    His brains are guacamole. No wonder they and their press lackeys harped on Biden.

  310. 310.

    Belafon

    @Kay: Biden was hurt because the media latched onto his being old and too many Democrats freaked out. That’s it.

  314. 314.

    Kay

    @tam1MI:

    We hike and kayak so we’ve been several times. We have a week long trip in September. Painted Rocks. I started riding a bike (my husband has ridden since we met) and we’re taking the bikes too. We have had a cottage at Lake Michigan for 30 years, so we’re going to live there, Denmark and NY when we retire. We have grandchildren in NY and Denmark. The idea is 3 months each in NY and Denmark and 6 in MI. But my husband has to retire and I don’t think he’s ready.

    We’re  looking at lots in the UP. We’d like to leave them to my grandaughters. A hedge against global warming. The little Dane will be too hot anywhere else- she’ll melt :)

  315. 315.

    Soprano2

    @Matt McIrvin: That describes where I live. WalMart has a section now for traditional Mexican foods – ten years ago you wouldn’t have seen anything like that. They know who their customers are. Twenty years ago this city was 90% white, now it’s 79%. I expect when that gets below 75% we’ll start seeing stuff here about election cheating and “illegals voting” and crap like that. Right now you don’t hear that about this city because the perception is that we’re still mostly white people here so “those people” aren’t a problem here.

  316. 316.

    Eunicecycle

    @Baud: tthat’s because DeWine is a boob. He was part of the committee that refused-just plain old REFUSED-to follow an Ohio Supreme Court ruling. And the Court did nothing about it. I think the whole committee should have been put in jail for contempt until they complied.

  317. 317.

    Frequent_lurker

    Since this is an open thread I have been hearing that there are at least 70 election deniers who maybe planning to refuse to certify the election if trump loses and I believe in one of the swing states the heritage foundation got 2 laws passed legalizing refusal to certify. Is anyone aware of this and is anyone trying to prevent that scenario?

  318. 318.

    jonas

    @Princess:   Still you can see her in a conversation trying to follow and throwing out things that are vaguely on topic but not quite. Just like Trump does.

    I agree something’s not quite right with Trump — and never has been — but I don’t think it’s Alzheimer’s or anything like that, though IANANeurologist. He’s just phenomenally, phenomenally stupid. Bag of hammers stupid. So he doesn’t know anything about anything and just bullshits and handwaves his way through whatever he’s asked and relies on pure bluster to keep a conversation moving. He’s not even wrong.

  319. 319.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Belafon: Shapiro’s policy stance on vouchers though, really isn’t that out of step with most Dems.  I don’t love it either.  But:

    1.) it’s hardly an uncommon stance among Dems,
    2.) Harris shows no indication of sharing it (which is what really matters) and
    3.) few, if any, voters are gonna abandon the ticket over such a position being held by the VP.

  320. 320.

    suzanne

    @Omnes Omnibus: Oh Lord. No one has to share “every thought they have”. I want people to feel comfortable sharing perspectives and opinions that others may disagree with, that they want to share, because they feel that they will still be treated with respect here.

    I’m not saying that people should share their word salad. I’m saying that we should create an atmosphere of openness.

  322. 322.

    BR

    The electoral college is the main thing I keep coming back to — we have to win by about 6% nationally to win the EC. It’s crazy but that’s where we’re at with the current GOP lean to the EC. I think ordinary people are discounting that hill that we have to climb. I’m sure the campaign is aware of it, but they need to convey that to the volunteers (carefully).

  323. 323.

    Matt McIrvin

    @BR: Harris is conveying it in fundraising pitches, I’ll tell you that. “We have momentum but we are the underdogs in this race”, I think was how I saw it phrased.

  325. 325.

    jonas

    @Frequent_lurker: I’m sure Marc Elias’s people are on it, but yeah, the real fight in this election will actually be the one that starts on November 6, I’m afraid. That’s why it’s important that Trump not just lose, but lose so devastatingly that even a well-coordinated MAGA effort to derail the certification process won’t work.

  334. 334.

    Sean

    @BR: Biden won 306 EV’s with a 4pt national margin (like 4.3 or something).

    I mean, that’s still a fucked up reality, but doable for KH. Not to say we’re cruising on easy street (we definitely are not) but trends are most definitely in her favor with VP selection and convention coming to boost her all over again.

    Leger has a poll out today showing KH with a 7 point lead with third parties included and a 3 or 4 point head to head. Do I believe that 7 point topline? No, I do not. It’s a small sample by a middling pollster. But what I do believe is the shift and trend towards KH is very real, and confirmed among many pollsters.

    https://leger360.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Leger_U.S-Politics-July-29th-2024.pdf

  335. 335.

    topclimber

    @Kay: I think I/P protests are likely to pickup when the new college year starts in the next few weeks.

    With the very real possibility that Bibi provokes a war in Lebanon, those protests could well get uglier. I suppose Shapiro helps nail down the pro-Israeli wing of our party, but don’t see him helping with the protest wing.

    If in his heart he is ok with protesting apartheid Israel, he needs to speak up. Props to him if he has already.

  336. 336.

    BR

    I think the bottom line is if it’s Shapiro they’d have to have him come out on day one with a statement changing his positions on vouchers and a statement trashing Bibi. Even if he’s said stuff like it before, they’d need to nip those in the bud.

  337. 337.

    Kay

    @Belafon:

    Okay. His approval rating never supported that so I disagree but ok. I love the “other Democrats” too. The BAD Democrats! Like Nancy Pelosi and Obama and, um, 75% of those polled.

  338. 338.

    Jeffro

    @zhena gogolia:Thank you, President Biden, for bringing us out of the pandemic, restoring the economy, rallying international support for Ukraine, passing landmark legislation, appointing a stellar cabinet and a stellar Vice President.

    so incredibly seconded here!!!

  340. 340.

    Kay

    @BR:

    His position on tax cuts will probably help with white suburban voters though. Sad but true. They love them some Reaganism.

  341. 341.

    Belafon

    @Kay: I almost agree with the idea as a lofty idea: Give some kids the chance to go to a school that would be able to better nurture their abilities/needs. But it fails on so many levels. The first being that there is more than one kid at each school with those needs, so why not just work on improving all of the schools. The second is that it would never go to the poor kids. It would be the kids with parents that have the resources to take on the school system that would get the money.

  343. 343.

    Jeffro

    OT but a question for the front-pagers: since the VP is supposedly going to pick her own VP between now and Sunday, can we get a thread at some point where BJers pick who they WANT as Harris’ VP and who they think it WILL be?

    It’ll be fun!  Really!  ;)

  345. 345.

    Kay

    @BR:

    We also need business people to go along or they’ll join with media to take her down. Shapiro will be perceived as moderate economically (because he is)  which will soothe the big fucking whiny babies.

  346. 346.

    Ken B

    @schrodingers_cat: You don’t need advanced education to know what Trump said is idiotic.

    Think of it, magnets,” Trump said. “Now all I know about magnets is this, give me a glass of water, let me drop it on the magnets, that’s the end of the magnets. Why didn’t they use John Deere? Why didn’t they bring in the John Deere people? Do you like John Deere? I like John Deere.”

    https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-ridiculed-bizarre-magnet-remarks-iowa-rally-1858420

  347. 347.

    BR

    @Kay:

    Yeah. The one thing I don’t quite like about Shapiro is that he seems to want to be president too much. That doesn’t make for a good VP. But I dunno.

  348. 348.

    zhena gogolia

    @Jeffro: It’ll be like the obituary threads where people always come in to tell you how they always hated the person.

  349. 349.

    Jeffro

    @Kay:I’m with Pelosi. Just win.

    print 1,000 bumper stickers with this on them, and you’ll sell every one.  =)

  353. 353.

    WereBear

    @tam1MI: The only thing wrong with the Rock Star analogy is that it happens to young people, often before their brains have firmed up yet, and then they are encouraged into poor decisions which the circumstances are doing, anyway.

    While Harris is an accomplished adult, happily married, and maybe EVEN OVER-PREPARED.

    She’s not running rock star risks.

  354. 354.

    Kay

    @Belafon:

    We have lots of experience with vouchers and urban poor kids. It’s not a theory. Ohio has had vouchers for 25 years. Milwaukee and Cleveland did huge voucher experiments. It’s bad policy. It’s failed everywhere it’s been tried. They don’t outperform public schools in Ohio’s Big Eight districts – urban poor people. Never, not once, year after year.

    Voucher proponents don’t even claim it works anymore. They switched to a straight “markets” argument. We should privatize because that’s what market dogma demands.

    Thats’ what gives me pause. He supports shit policy. It’s baffling.

  355. 355.

    Sure Lurkalot

    H/T Aaron Rupar:

    Burgum’s spin of the hostage deal with Russia is “the reason why Russia wanted to do this deal now is they think President Trump is gonna win, and they don’t want to deal with him.”

    Now is the time to juxtapose that picture of Trump next to Putin looking like a scolded 2 year old.

    I’ll go to the grave never understanding the Trump as superman hype.

  357. 357.

    suzanne

    @Baud: And, just like in real life, it’s bad. Liberals should be able to discuss ideas without personal attacks or silencing tactics.

    We create the vibe here. We get to shape it.

  358. 358.

    Kay

    @BR:

    I was a little taken aback by his Obama phrasing. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and all that but it’s a bit much.

    But we need PA.

  360. 360.

    MCA1

    @Sally: I think Harris and surrogates would be wise to avoid acting indignant about any of it, too.  Just mock him, instead.  If people start laughing at him (and we’re getting close to that point, with the kindling having been laid with all the “weird” stuff) it’s over.  All the uninformed vibe voters will find association with him embarrassing.

    “Look at Vanilla Lice over there.  What a loon.  Donnie, it’s not 1968.  You sound like a whiny old fart.”

    He wants to talk about the California bar exam?  Don’t offer stats about how hard it is to pass the California bar exam and say the majority of law school graduates fail it.  Don’t dignify it with a substantive response!  Ask who took the SAT for him and when’s he gonna release his transcripts from Penn, and note the you’re as proud to have passed the California bar exam as he appears to be to have passed a basic cognitive test.  Then alternate pointing at him and yourself and say “Man, Woman, Criminal, Prosecutor, Lunatic.”

  362. 362.

    Doc Sardonic

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Good luck with and fast recovery from the cataract surgery. I’ve had it done in one eye for now, haven’t needed it yet for the other. Follow the post op instructions and it should be a piece of cake.

  365. 365.

    sdhays

    @Kay: After all this time, I find I still don’t understand how this all works. Having said that, this feels like overthinking it all to me.

  366. 366.

    Kay

    @BR:

    I’m hoping Democrats realize that supporting public education is good politics for Democrats. We win on that state level. Harris went to public school so I think that helps.

    The VP doesn’t matter that much for policy. I’m not worried about it. This is about Harris.

  368. 368.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Kay: Maybe back up your conviction with some statistical analysis that picking a VP from a state tends to deliver that state. I have no idea, just the long ago memory that Gore lost Tennessee….

  369. 369.

    Jackie

    @Kay: According to DonOLD, during the interview debacle yesterday, voters don’t vote for the VP candidate – voters vote for the top ticket.

    This was his non answer to a question regarding if he was concerned about Vance.🤔

  371. 371.

    Baud

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    I think Veep used to be important for states but no longer is that big a deal, since we tend to focus on the president as an individual rather than the head of a team.

  372. 372.

    topclimber

    @MCA1: Thankfully, Harris learned from her failure and passed the exam.

    “Don Old, I learned from my mistakes. It’s weird that you never do.”

  374. 374.

    suzanne

    @Baud: Sure. But hearing that actual valued, longtime commenters — and I say that without stupid scare quotes around it — feel uncomfortable discussing actual, salient topics at hand here…. that sucks.

  375. 375.

    Gin & Tonic

    Good source confirmed Vladimir Kara-Murza and Oleg Orlov were included in the Gershkovich swap.

  377. 377.

    zhena gogolia

    @suzanne: Yes, those of us who wanted Biden to stay certainly didn’t enjoy having “Fuck you” shouted at us by longtime commenters. That’s all I’ll say on this tedious topic.

  379. 379.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Sure Lurkalot: ​
      Harris, Pence, Biden, and Cheney were not picked to shore up a state. I think that LBJ may have been the last VP to deliver a state. Ford and Mondale may have been chosen for regional balance, but if we are looking for regional balance any of the finalists would provide that.

  381. 381.

    Soprano2

    @rikyrah: I’d insist on my money upfront from him or anything connected to his campaign. Anyone who doesn’t is gifting him with a donation to his campaign, and should regard it as such.

  382. 382.

    matt

    @zhena gogolia: People ought to stop being dicks about this and look forward, not back. If you don’t have a huge sense of relief at being able to fight the real enemies and stop fighting your side, there’s something wrong with you.

  383. 383.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    Burgum’s spin of the hostage deal with Russia is …

    Has everyone already forgotten that Trump claimed Putin would only do this for him [Trump]?

  385. 385.

    Ksmiami

    @Kay: I love Torch Lake. We still have a house in Oakland County though as a rental and a global warming hedge

  388. 388.

    Leto

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Oh man, that must have been stressful beyond belief. Glad that portion worked out and you’re still able to get your surgery! Hoping for a speedy recovery, and that you see things in a whole new light ;)

  389. 389.

    tam1MI

    @Matt McIrvin: I’m a worrier, also a mostly normie Dem with an unusual tendency to not dismiss online-Left-with-a-capital-L people, because of accidents of history and who my friends are. So I get sensitive to stuff that evokes a torrent of shit from them.

    I have the same problem with my moderate-to-normie friends. Like certain things go down in the political world and I am wincing and resigning myself to never hearing the end of it…

  390. 390.

    Leto

    @matt: well, that’s certainly a persuasive argument. You’re def winning over hearts and minds there. Wish we would’ve had you on my team in Iraq…

  393. 393.

    Kay

    Here’s my thing. There is nothing wrong with Shapiro supporters arguing on his behalf that he is more moderate than Harris. There are plenty of moderate and Right-leaning Democrats. I accepted that long ago.

    I want him because although I am not a moderate I accept that I am not the entire Democratic Party and he will appeal to moderates. That’s a perfectly defensible position. What isn’t a defensible position is denying it. He’s at 60% because he’s pulling in moderates. We need them.

  394. 394.

    Jackie

    @zhena gogolia: I think a Biden Tribute thread is too soon. As today’s breaking news points out, President Biden hasn’t finished prezidenting.

    A tribute around Jan 20, 2025 when he’s passing the baton to MPOTUS, would be more fitting IMO. 😊

  395. 395.

    Matt McIrvin

    @tam1MI:

    Tom Cotton is already attacking her on being a gigantic hypocrite because ” she served as Vice President to a man she accused of being a racist”. I knew the “that little girl was me” gaffe was going to come back to bite her the second she started running for something again.

    Eh, that’s just the normie conservative framing of racism as something that exists only as a grave defect of character, that it’s fatally damning to accuse someone of and that is only possessed by the equivalent of Klansmen. Rather than as part of the air we breathe, that everyone has to struggle with.

    Talking about that distinction directly is maybe a loser, but obviously Kamala Harris instinctively understands it.

  396. 396.

    Lyrebird

    @suzanne: Can I note that I desperately want to push back against this idea that good-faith discussion of important issues is divisive?!

    I’m glad you noted that!  Can I say that when you go “emojis!  ::ducks::” it really does not come across as good-faith discussion so much as insulting a specific commenter who has a different view on the issue?  And I know you care about this stuff, and I don’t want to pie you because I want to hear your own perspective?

  398. 398.

    Fair Economist

    @Kay:

    [The Ohio FirstEnergy scam] almost worked! The ONLY reason it didn’t is they stiffed a thief running a fake grass roots campaign and he went to the FBI and wore a wire in revenge.

    I can’t help but wonder how many other scams in Ohio, and other Republican states like Texas and Florida, *didn’t* get caught because the thieves didn’t stiff each other. School vouchers are a rich field for scams, and Texas’s disconnection from the grid is so they don’t have to meet federal accountability standards.

  400. 400.

    Kay

    A friend of mine says it will be Kelly because senators love senators and I think that probably has some truth to it :)

  401. 401.

    Ivan X

    @suzanne:

    @Baud:

    I agree with both of you. Suzanne, I agree with your ideal of what I’d like this place to be, a place that can tolerate and even entertain respectful disagreements within our tribe, and I feel that, within limits, and subject to situation, we sometimes achieve that.

    But, as you say Baud, certainly not always, and especially not when nerves are high, as in election season. Even us jackals can get triggered easily, and indulge our sense of outrage and righteousness at one another. And, even during calm periods, I think contrarian points of view on some subjects are not well tolerated. As much as we might like them to be.

    I’d like us to all be able to give each other the benefit of the doubt, and I think many if not most here do, but, we’re only human, unfortunately. I’ve been on the wrong end of a literal “fuck you” for what I thought was a reasonable comment, and I’ve been accused of insufficient loyalty to a candidate (though, to be fair, when I clarified myself on that one, I received an apology; it was a misreading of what I had posted, but it was still a guns-blazing snap response). I now choose my words more carefully.

    ETA: I agree that we should resist groupthink, but there is, and has always been, at least since John’s conversion, plenty of groupthink here. I mean, John periodically brings in new front-pagers with a different perspective on things, and they don’t last long. I would like it to be better, but I don’t really know how, or if, it can be changed.

  402. 402.

    Matt McIrvin

    @tam1MI: My real-world friends and family also include a fair number of old Bernie supporters among whom I felt a bit defensive in the day for not being all-in for Bernie. So it’s sort of the flip side of that.

  404. 404.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I feel like we’re opposites because my real life Democrats want an amendment against burning flags and have a nervous breakdown anytime they watch MSNBC.

  405. 405.

    tam1MI

    @zhena gogolia: That wasn’t a gaffe! It was a good debate line, and Biden appreciated it.

    It was a good debate line, but, as documented in the book BATTLE FOR THE SOUL, in the aftermath the Biden people turned it around on her as she struggled to answer simple follow up questions from the press, such as, “So you would be for the Federal government writing busing plans for local school districts?” (The bill the Biden had voted against was about this). She answered that question saying no, she would not be for that, to which the Biden people replied that if she agreed with Biden on the policy, why did she insinuate he was a racist for voting the same way she would have? And she never recovered from that.

    That’s one of the reasons I am glad Harris has Biden’s team working for her, the ability to take what should have been a devastating attack and turn it back on an opponent was truly impressive to me.

  406. 406.

    Eunicecycle

    @Kay: ugh same where I live in Ohio. Wherever there are groups of old men sitting around together, they are discussing the high school football team, either current or past. My son-in-law’s uncle died and in his obituary it said he hadn’t missed a Tiger football game in 65 years.

  407. 407.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    That’s true and undercounted, I think. I went to a gun safety event in Cleveland and it was a lot of young moms with strollers. Very heartening. It’s a good issue for us.

  408. 408.

    Quadrillipede

    @schrodingers_cat: You can’t really “look” at reality at that level. You can understand it with math.

    I personally feel that I can do both, or rather, there is no harm in trying to do both.

  410. 410.

    Jackie

    I have to say that Paul Whelan’s freedom after six looong years of Russian captivity and knowing other Americans were released BEFORE HIM has me in tears of happiness.

  411. 411.

    rikyrah

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    Looks like I’m not the only person who noticed that the only potential VP contender Progressives are currently smearing as a deal-breaker, is the Jewish guy (even though he’s been MORE outspoken against Netanyahu and his stance on Gaza is the same as the rest of the contenders):

    I have definitely noticed the undertones with regards to Shapiro and it angers me. Circles back to anti-Semitism.

  412. 412.

    Leto

    @matt: Oh, Trumpy insults! Man, can’t wait for your promotion to Director of Comms to some back water Wyoming candidate. Pad that resume!

  413. 413.

    stinger

    @Kay: We’re about to have a VP become president, fingers crossed. I’d say the VP’s stance on key policies is important.

  414. 414.

    Kay

    @Eunicecycle:

    My daughter was sportier than my sons but tennis and swimming. All three of my sons were in the band so I went to hs football games but I just chat and people watch. I don’t know the rules of football and thinking about learning them makes me cry :)

    I generally think sports are good for people though. They make them happy. That’s good. Also extracurriculars are geniuinely good for young people. They really do keep them out of trouble – I work in juvenile courts.

  415. 415.

    Citizen Alan

    @Kay: Man, looking back on that it is so quaint that everyone got offended at what obama’s pastor said when nearly every white evangelical pastor in america thinks minorities are inferior and that women should be reduced to slavery.

  416. 416.

    suzanne

    @Lyrebird: Sure, and that’s fair. I will also note that that commenter has engaged in a whole slew of passive-aggressive comments about me, for weeks, including in this thread. But I’ll endeavor to be less sarcastic as a way of doing my part to improve the atmosphere.

  419. 419.

    Leto

    @Jackie: Per the current reporting, the US has basically run out of Russian prisoners to trade. And this is probably Putin’s new tactic, of just randomly kidnapping Americans to now gain other thugs/murder’s freedom from other countries. I know that independent journalism is needed from that country, but man idk if it’s worth it from that perspective. At this point you basically need to treat Russia the same as North Korea.

  420. 420.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    I don’t know if most not-weird people know this but racists have this big fear that non white people are pretending to be white or they might not recognize an ethnicity they hate because the “otherness” isn’t clear enough, hence their opposition to people marrying who they want to marry. Trump is a racist so he probably thinks this too. They need to know which group you’re in immediately so they can hate you

     

    My lips are so pursed reading this.

    Non-Whites pretending to be White.

    SIGH…

    I got nothing.

    This reads as pure phucking lunacy to me.

  421. 421.

    schrodingers_cat

    @hobbitdreams: And this blog too. Several Jewish posters have stopped posting in the comments, the non-white blog writers hardly do any front page posts.

    There are few self identified non-white, non-hetero people who post in the comments. And some of those who do post are barely tolerated by some commenters and frontpagers.

  424. 424.

    rikyrah

    @Leto:

    At this point you basically need to treat Russia the same as North Korea.

     

    THANK YOU.

    Why anyone is in Russia right now, makes no damn sense.

    You take your life into your hands, and no, don’t whine if Vlad snatches your azz up.

  425. 425.

    BR

    @Kay: ​
    If it’s Kelly I hope they don’t put him on the stump but instead do lots of random gaggle / photo op events with him. The guy has a Dubya like ability to stand on things and pose for a good photo op with a few one liners. Speaking at length is not his strong suit.

  426. 426.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    A friend of mine says it will be Kelly because senators love senators and I think that probably has some truth to it :)

     

    NO SENATORS!

    JUDGES

    JUDGES

    JUDGES

  428. 428.

    raven

    @Kay: Our nephew is about 6’4″ and was in the band in HS. The football and basketball coaches all wanted him to play sports but he always said the marching band was way more physical than sports!

  429. 429.

    rikyrah

    @topclimber:

    I think I/P protests are likely to pickup when the new college year starts in the next few weeks.

    With the very real possibility that Bibi provokes a war in Lebanon, those protests could well get uglier. I suppose Shapiro helps nail down the pro-Israeli wing of our party, but don’t see him helping with the protest wing.

     

    And considering that I believe them to have been taken over by bad faith actors…

    Yeah, it can get ridiculous.

  430. 430.

    Kay

    @Eunicecycle:

    Sometimes I envy them a little. We just had all my grown kids and spouses and children at Lake Michigan and my daughter, my daughter in law and my youngest son’s GF found out they were all high school swimmers. Hilarity ensued. My daughter used to say “my goal is not to be last” :)

  432. 432.

    Matt McIrvin

    @rikyrah: It reminds me of the whole “taqiyya” paranoia during the War on Terror era, during which it was argued that since the Quran authorized deception to protect fellow Muslims, that meant that there had to be huge numbers of crypto-terrorists hiding out there among seemingly regular people from Middle Eastern and Central Asian countries. The idea that “people who are not like you are hiding something” seems to be very powerful.

  433. 433.

    Fake Irishman

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    Bob Graham: popular former FLA gov instead of Joe Lieberman for Gore’s VP pick.  Flip10,000 (out of six million cast) votes and we enter a very interesting alternative timeline.

    But mostly VP pick is overhyped and has little impact. (Though Greg Dworkin has linked to some interesting research that it does have some indirect effects)

  434. 434.

    Leto

    Learning about Sunni Lee’s medical struggles, and all she’s overcome, really makes everything she’s done so far soooo impressive. Hoping she and Simone just blow it out of the water! (The women’s all around is starting now, and no not going to spoiler anything. Just want to cheer them on)

  435. 435.

    Eunicecycle

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: good luck and let us know how it goes! I have my consult appointment in a few weeks and I am excited! I am extremely near sighted and my optometrist says it will be life-changing for me.

  438. 438.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @columbusqueen: I also want to win.  That’s why I highlighted that remark.  I think we can all presume that our comments about politics are based on our desire to win and our considered opinion as to the best way to do that.

  440. 440.

    columbusqueen

    @rikyrah: No. My biggest beef with Shapiro is how he handled the sexual harassment scandal involving his chief of staff. Keeping the guy on for six months after reaching an immediate six-figure settlement with his accuser shows both poor judgment & a tolerance for male BS that doesn’t belong on our ticket.

  441. 441.

    hobbitdreams

    @raven: Good for your nephew! Marching band is fun, mostly, and develops great camaraderie. I don’t know if it’s MORE physical than sports, but it definitely is physical and tests endurance, especially during the heat of summer band camp.

  444. 444.

    KatKapCC

    @Kay: But it wasn’t selective:

    The anti-Shapiro campaign ignores these remarks but makes much of the governor’s comparison of campus Gaza protesters to “people dressed up in KKK outfits.” When he said that in an interview, however, Shapiro was distinguishing between bigoted extremists—such as the Columbia campus-protest leader who called for killing “Zionists”—and peaceful demonstrators, about whom the governor has said, “It’s right for young people to righteously protest and question.”

    It’s very clear that Shapiro was not comparing and and all of the protesters to the KKK, but rather the ones literally screaming for the deaths of Jews. (Because FYI, in this context, “Zionist” means “Jew”, and even if you want to believe they do not mean all Jews, why is it okay to scream for the death of any group?) I have no problem calling people bigots when they want all members of a tiny minority group dead. The KKK wants all Jews dead (among other groups, of course), and so do SOME of the protesters, and there is nothing wrong with calling them out for it, especially because they make the majority of the protesters who are NOT saying crap like that look worse and they take away from the key aim of ending the war.

  445. 445.

    Leto

    @raven: Omnes let us know a few nights ago. I feel the same way about him as I do the events surrounding Abu Ghraib. There’s direct parallels there, in both failure/break down of professionalism, chain of command, and the accountability of everyone involved with that. The one slight difference is that I haven’t seen the same type of veneration on the right for the guards that apparently was shown to Calley post event.

    I’ll also repeat, that after reading through Project 2025, that the changes they’re proposing for the military would lead to similar events happening again. It would be a decimation of the profession of arms, as it would turn the military from a non-political entity into another Trumpov apparatus. To say that it reminds me of the generals having to pledge the allegiance to Hitler, I don’t think is an understatement.

  448. 448.

    Josie

    @raven: ​
     When I was in high school, the bully football boys challenged the band boys to a flag football game. My brother was one of the band boys. They beat the sox off of the football boys. The coach was livid.

  449. 449.

    Ivan X

    @raven: I know of at least one Jewish poster here who explicitly stopped participating because they no longer felt welcome having even moderate, nuanced views on IP. I have certainly kept myself silent on the topic. And I know that new front pagers usually get run out of town on a rail.

  451. 451.

    RaflW

    I think the press — particularly the Times and WaPo — do not know what to do with a joyful, fun campaign. They want a mud fight. Harris cant (and isn’t) ignore Trump’s slur-laden taunts, but rather than going either “high” or “low” it seems she is going to prosecute her case against Trump while celebrating America.

    An excellent counterpoint to dour “carnage” Trump.

  452. 452.

    pika

    @rikyrah: Ever read George Schuyler’s 1931 Harlem Renaissance novel Black No More: Being an Account of the Strange and Wonderful Workings of Science in the Land of the Free, A.D. 1933-1940?

    It’s about a Black scientist who invents a machine that “turns” Black people white, and by the end of the novel it panics whites so much that they end up tanning to differentiate themselves as the ‘true’ whites. Schuyler was a conservative, but the novel feels so contemporary still

  453. 453.

    tam1MI

    @rikyrah: I have definitely noticed the undertones with regards to Shapiro and it angers me. Circles back to anti-Semitism.

    Can I be the one who dislikes the idea of Shapiro as vice presidential candidate, but has also noticed those overtones and is made distinctly uncomfortable by them?

  455. 455.

    JML

    Everyone that’s realistically on Harris’ shortlist for VP is fine by me. None of them are deal-breakers, though there are some I prefer over others. And everyone pointing out that VPs basically don’t matter on election day are right: the most impact they will have is probably whether they can sustain a good week of media going into the DNC. Otherwise it’s “don’t eff up and give the campaign a bad media day” (hi, JD!). All the people that are being floated should be able to handle it and look like they’d be good partners for a Harris Administration.

    You just need to avoid the ones that are a mess (Palin, Vance, etc) or someone that can’t be trusted to stay onside (Lieberman). this is why you stay as far away from someone like Manchin as possible: can’t be trusted.

    Walz, Shapiro, Cooper, Whitmer, Kelly, Beshear, Pritzker, Buttigieg…none of them fall into the danger zone. All look capable of carrying the media load for a week or more.  Heck, there are more options on the Dem bench. It’s nice.

  456. 456.

    MomSense

    @zhena gogolia:

    And I didn’t appreciate being told I wanted trump to win no matter how many times I told you I would vote and volunteer for Biden if he stayed the nominee.  Especially knowing how racist, how dangerous trump is you seriously cannot see how insulting that was?
    I’d rather be told to fuck off.  It’s less insulting.

  457. 457.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Ivan X: Thanks.

    There is a certain kind of liberal, who unconsciously buys into the white man’s burden trope. So they see anyone not mainstream white as a project, to be saved. But not as equals with their own opinions.

  458. 458.

    Scout211

    Ha ha ha

    (AP News)Donald Trump’s gag order remains in effect after hush money conviction, New York appeals court rules

    A five-judge panel in the state’s mid-level appellate court ruled that the trial judge, Juan M. Merchan, was correct in extending parts of the gag order until Trump is sentenced, writing that “the fair administration of justice necessarily includes sentencing.”

    Will SCOTUS overturn?  I hope not.

    ETA: paragraph added.

  460. 460.

    CaseyL

    @Ivan X: I noticed that as well, and the sheer awfulness of certain commenters in at least one thread that drove off a new front pager was a revelation of the darker sort.

    BJ hasn’t been the same to me since.  It’s like a high school clique a lot of times – of the Heathers variety.

  461. 461.

    Kay

    @KatKapCC:

    They think it’s biased because some of the pro Israel protestors said horrible things too – like saying that everyone who supports Palestinians supports “Hamas” or referring to anyone who opposes US policy in Gaza as “anti Israel” or demanding that Arab Americans who sincerely and profoundly (and for very good reason) oppose US policy towards Palestianians are “cosplaying” or lying.

    But as I said I don’t agree with Shapiro on a lot of things – public ed, tax cuts, I/P, but I still think he’s the best on the merits for moderate white people, who we need.

  463. 463.

    Leto

    @NotMax: Paul Ryan lost Ohio, and Romney didn’t even carry Ryan’s district. I think Obama and Biden, each as presidents, are helping to redefine the role of VP as more than just a placeholder, but as an integral part of the team to help get shit done. Which I think is a good thing.

  464. 464.

    frosty

    I’m going to apply my rule to this post. Once the comments get past about 250, there’s a fight going on among commenters or a troll that won’t quit. I don’t find it particularly enlightening so I’ll see you on the next thread.

    Unless curiosity gets to me, dammit.

  465. 465.

    rikyrah

    @columbusqueen:

    No. My biggest beef with Shapiro is how he handled the sexual harassment scandal involving his chief of staff. Keeping the guy on for six months after reaching an immediate six-figure settlement with his accuser shows both poor judgment & a tolerance for male BS that doesn’t belong on our ticket

     

    Now, THIS. I understand.

    As well as those who oppose him on vouchers.

    But so much animus towards him..feels anti-Semitic. My spidey senses just hankled when reading some of the stuff written against him.

  466. 466.

    Kay

    @KatKapCC:

    The protestors are too young to remember this but I sure do – the efforts to smear all the protestors reminded me A LOT of the efforts to smear anyone who opposed the War On Terror. This whole “you love terrorists” thing is familiar to me. Some of the protestors are/were anti Semitic. Some of the Right wing couterprotestors and Right wing pols in both Israel and the US are terrible too and bigoted against Muslims and Arabs. Also, and not to be missed, is the fact that the majority Right wing in Israel are working as hard as they can to elect Donald Trump. They’re not my US political allies.

  467. 467.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Leto: That started with Clinton-Gore.  Clinton promised Gore that he would be a part of the have real responsibilities in order to get him on board.

  468. 468.

    matt

    I’ve spoken to people who simply call everyone who criticizes Israel right now ‘anti-Semitic’. It’s pretty disgusting IMO.

  469. 469.

    Gin & Tonic

    From the White House statement by the old guy:

    I am grateful to our Allies who stood with us throughout tough, complex negotiations to achieve this outcome— including Germany, Poland, Slovenia, Norway, and Turkey. This is a powerful example of why it’s vital to have friends in this world whom you can trust and depend upon. Our alliances make Americans safer.

    I really like that last sentence.

  470. 470.

    NotMax

    @Leto

    Ryan’s from Wisconsin, IIRC..

    Regardless, I was responding the the commenter’s referencing the 2000 election, not when Gore was on the ticket for Veep..

  471. 471.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Kay: Tax cuts and school vouchers are not moderate positions in my opinion. They promote privatization. That’s the republican vision of America…”public good” funded by philanthropy and private schools. No thanks.

  472. 472.

    Kay

    @KatKapCC:

    Also the entire Right wing in the US smeared all Arabs and Muslims and Lefties think liberals didn’t defend them  – which is basically true. I’m not talking about Righties on Twitter, either. The US Right wing took down a Muslim judge out of pure religious bigotry. The only person I heard defend him was Corey Booker. If you support religious/ethnic minorities you support religious/ethnic minorities. It shouldn’t be one without the other.

  473. 473.

    Old School

    @frosty:

    Once the comments get past about 250, there’s a fight going on among commenters or a troll that won’t quit.

    Or the latest post has been up for five hours.

  475. 475.

    Steve LaBonne

    My simple-minded take on the Veepstakes is that the choice can hurt (hi there JD!) but there is precious little evidence that it can help significantly. So it’s a “first do no harm” thing. Walz and Beshear seem to have the fewest potential vulnerabilities (Shapiro’s are discussed extensively above; labor doesn’t like Kelly, and not without reason) so I am hoping for one of them, in that order.

  476. 476.

    NotMax

    @rikyrah

    To address the translucent elephant in the room, Shapiro is (a) Jewish and (b) short. Neither of which entices wavering voters nationally.

    In PA he had the good fortune to be running for governor directly against a homegrown putrid cudlip.

  479. 479.

    hueyplong

    I watched Biden’s press conference about the prisoner exchange.

    He was spectacular.  Spread credit and thanks widely and repeatedly.  Had families with him and led the room singing happy birthday to a daughter of a prisoner on the way home while hugging her.  Emphasized how important alliances and trust are, saying that without concessions from allies this could not have been consummated.

    Best of all were his responses to three shrill questions yelled at him.

    What did these allies ask in return.  Biden: Nothing.

    Do you think this means you should communicate with Putin going forward?  Biden: No.

    What do you say to President Trump’s statement that he could have gotten them home without any concessions (in terms of trading prisoners).  Biden:  Why didn’t he?

    I was and am so proud.  But he spoke softly and moved slowly.  That would have been the story if Kamala wasn’t running.  We’re where we should be, and I say this as a Biden supporter.

  480. 480.

    different-church-lady

    @suzanne: Here’s what was really getting to me during “the troubles”: we were all talking about difficult and scary things. Some of us were doing it cautiously, carefully weighing what was helpful, what was painful and what was corrosive.
    And others were just letting their freakout flag fly.
    And it didn’t even matter which side people were on — some people chose to be smart, and some chose to be stupid on both sides of the argument.
    So, what it comes down to in the end is: if you want to keep it real, you have to choose to be smart about it.
    If you do that, then contentious things can be discussed among adults without damage.​

  484. 484.

    rikyrah

    @hueyplong:

    Do you think this means you should communicate with Putin going forward?  Biden: No.

    What do you say to President Trump’s statement that he could have gotten them home without any concessions (in terms of trading prisoners).  Biden:  Why didn’t he?

     

    God bless JoeyB

  488. 488.

    Lyrebird

    @suzanne: I really appreciate your responding in earnest.  Sounds trite, but I am not a master wordsmith, wanted to express that.  I know I can stand to check myself, as well!

    I’m often unrealistic, and I do know that when posting I may well get told “GFY”.  I would really like to have these threads have an atmosphere where you don’t have to be a firebreather to be able to face bring up concerns about disinformation campaigns (“Kamala is a cop” and amping up ageism) that have been going on and may still be going on targeting young adults.  As I type this, this thread will probably be over already, but I will post my comment anyhow.

    Again, thanks for responding to my difficult comment!

     

    And HUGE THANKS to @rikyrah: for unflagging support

    But so much animus towards him..feels anti-Semitic. My spidey senses just hankled when reading some of the stuff written against him.

    Yeah.  Your speaking up has helped less bold me stay in the convo.

  489. 489.

    NotMax

    @WereBear

    Have read that on a good day Shapiro tops out at around 5’6″.

    Makes no never mind to me but to others it’s a negative, however subconsciously.

  493. 493.

    cwmoss

    @Frankensteinbeck: Fuckin’ magnets – how do they work? I’d probably understand if I hadn’t been diagnosed with insane bowel syndrome.

    (credit goes to Hard Times News for the IBS)

  494. 494.

    BR

    It’s amazing that Biden apparently made the deal for the prisoner swap an hour before he announced he was stepping aside from the presidential nomination. He was still doing the work.

  495. 495.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @E.: @Old School: JFC it just gets worse and worse

    Every time I remind myself, “there is no bottom.”

  496. 496.

    Captain C

    @E.: If TCFG actually tries to quit the ticket, or they try to force him out, the media will get a shitshow that they will do their best to ignore, but they would be all over if it were Democrats.

  497. 497.

    Jackie

    @rikyrah: There’s a white woman in Spokane, WA who for years (and still might) claimed she was Black. Both her parents are Caucasian, but she doubled down. It made a quick media splash at the time. I think she was running for something which ultimately busted her.

    I’m too distracted with today’s joyous news to hunt up the link, but a quick Google search should bring it up.

  500. 500.

    Eunicecycle

    @Kay: oh I think sports are great for the kids. I wish I had had the opportunity to play something. There just were no high school sports for girls when I went to school. I was in the band, though! It could be kind of physical sometimes.

  502. 502.

    hueyplong

    From today forward, we’re probably ok on days in which Trump’s chosen hate of the day is one that appeals solely to the National Socialist “base.”  “Indian Outift Kamala” with his accompanying comment is such a thing.

  503. 503.

    TBone

    I am tired of trying to defend my Governor regarding public education, only to be soundly ignored.  I will keep trying, however.  As always, I trust the team to choose a VP and do not really care who it is.  But I do care when misinformation is spread, so I try to get the truth out.

    If you’re gonna slag on Shapiro, I suggest you read up first.

    https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=7be1d0a3140fdae9JmltdHM9MTcyMjQ3MDQwMCZpZ3VpZD0zMDlmZDRmZS04NTI0LTY5YTUtMTdhOC1jMDM1ODQ2YjY4NDMmaW5zaWQ9NTI0Nw&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=309fd4fe-8524-69a5-17a8-c035846b6843&psq=josh+shapiro+public+education+funding&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cud2dhbC5jb20vYXJ0aWNsZS9wZW5uc3lsdmFuaWEtZ292ZXJub3Itam9zaC1zaGFwaXJvLWV4Y2x1c2l2ZS1pbnRlcnZpZXctYnVkZ2V0LWVkdWNhdGlvbi1mdW5kaW5nLWJpZGVuLzYxNTg0NTA2&ntb=1

  504. 504.

    Soprano2

    @suzanne: I get this. I had some FB friends who were angry about the Olympics opening ceremony where they had drag queens as what these people perceived was the Last Supper. I commented about how that’s not what it was, and why do we think Christianity should not be able to be mocked, etc. One of those people later posted a thread about how some people angrily disagreed with her, and she thought about deleting it, blah blah blah. I responded with a post about how so many people seem so angry since Covid and I wish we could bring it down some. She was surprised I posted there since I disagreed with her opinion. I posted back that I don’t think I insulted her personally, I just disagreed with what she thought, and that we should be able to disagree in a civilized manner shouldn’t we? People are getting too into the idea that if you don’t agree with someone you should be nasty to them, it’s too bad.

  505. 505.

    different-church-lady

    @BR: Pretty good for a guy whose ‘BRAIN IS OBVIOUSLY PUDDING, WHY CAN’T YOU SEE IT?!*’

    (*I’d put that ^ in Comic Sans to drive home the sarcasm if it were mechanically possible here.)

  507. 507.

    Jeffro

    @Old School:Trump posted a picture of Kamala Harris dressed in an Indian outfit this morning, so I guess he’s decided doubling-down is the way to go.

    it’s literally the only thing they know how to do!

    rethink a position?  explain?  apologize??  oh no, not these guys, not ever.  it’s a MAGA hallmark.

    …dub-dub-dub, dub-double dooooown…

  512. 512.

    Nelle

    This was likely obvious to everyone but me before this.  However, it is taking a day of taking care of fractious grandchildren (ages 7, 5, and 2) with them arguing and demanding attention that has clarified why Vance doesn’t want childless women around.  We are smarter and more realistic, but when beseiged by the demands of children, we don’t have time or space for a clear thought.  Love my husband, but he can be clueless around small children and brings his own set of logistical questions at inopportune times. And he can screen their natterings out.  Why?  Because I’m there.  The back-up woman.  Women who are not backing up, tending to children, etc. , can think, question, and challenge power.  It may be this, as much as their vaunted “family values” that cause the Republicans to demand that women be waylaid for decades by small children.

  513. 513.

    TBone

    @Omnes Omnibus: on a new to me laptop today with Microsoft Edge and I hate it.  Can’t even see a link straight, there are no easy ways to get one, and it’s too hot to fuck with it today.  I’m usually not unable to post links as you must be aware by now.

  516. 516.

    Barry

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: “He intended to let the guy sit in a Russian prison until he could claim the release as good news for himself.”

     

    IMHO, no.  He probably forgot about the guy one second after his statement,

  517. 517.

    Citizen Alan

    @Matt McIrvin:  That was the “joke” in the infamous The IT Crowd episode that basically (and deservedly) ruined Graham Lineham’s career. Clueless boss Douglas Renholm falls in love with a beautiful woman played by an attractive cis-het actress who tells him forthrightly on their first date that she “used to be a man.”  Douglas indicates he is perfectly okay with this and they start a serious relationship only for him to realize the truth after they have had sex at least once (“I thought you said you were from Iran!”) and they have a nasty break-up involving a public brawl.

    The A-Plot was Jenn’s speech to the shareholders which was one of the funniest storylines in 21st century sitcoms, but the B-Plot just ruined it.

  522. 522.

    rikyrah

    @Nelle:

    Women who are not backing up, tending to children, etc. , can think, question, and challenge power.  It may be this, as much as their vaunted “family values” that cause the Republicans to demand that women be waylaid for decades by small children.

    PREACH

  523. 523.

    Old School

    WASHINGTON — Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer on Thursday announced a bill that would ensure that presidents do not have criminal immunity.

    The legislation is a direct response to the Supreme Court’s ruling last month that former President Donald Trump has some immunity for aspects of his presidential conduct. However, even if the bill passes the Senate, it would face an uphill climb in the House, which is controlled by Republican allies of Trump.

    “Given the dangerous and consequential implications of the Court’s ruling, legislation would be the fastest and most efficient method to correcting the grave precedent the Trump ruling presented,” Schumer, D-N.Y., said in a statement. “With this glaring and partisan overreach, Congress has an obligation — and a constitutional authority — to act as a check and balance to the judicial branch.”

    The legislation, dubbed the “No Kings Act,” would ensure that neither sitting nor former presidents and vice presidents are entitled to immunity from prosecution for alleged crimes. The bill has more than two dozen Democratic signers.

    If it is passed, the legislation would make it clear that Congress has the power to determine “to whom federal criminal laws may be applied,” not the Supreme Court, according to the bill’s outline provided by Schumer’s office.

  524. 524.

    M31

    if Vance removes himself the FTFNYT media will have a huge outpouring of support for the replacement and compare it to Harris taking over for Biden

    LOL I’m sure that’s going through the GOP camp right now, “Well, the Demonrats did it and Harris got a huge bump in the polls, so will we!”

  525. 525.

    Citizen Alan

    @Matt McIrvin:  Yeah, I always thought it a possibility that Biden would step aside and the manner in which he finally did so was masterfully executed. But for about 72 hours, it certainly looked like both Biden and Harris were about to be pushed out and we were going to get a brokered convention with the nominee picked by billionaire donors. And there was a good chance it would be Dean Fucking Phillips! I am still livid over the disgusting arrogance of a billionaire Hollywood talent agent — the living embodiment of the parasite class! — declaring that all financial support for all Dem candidates would be shut down unless Biden (and presumably Kamala) stepped aside, which, if it had played out that way would have been a sign that I should accelerate plans to leave the country because Democracy would truly be dead.

  526. 526.

    Eunicecycle

    @NotMax: LOL! And I did go to band camp

    ETA I did NOT do what she did with her flute! Or any other musical instrument!

  527. 527.

    Soprano2

    @zhena gogolia: I agree that it got way over the line from some commenters. I had another anxiety attack during that period, which I’m sure was partly because of my cat’s health problems but also was partly due to the political situation. I always try to disagree without being personal or hateful, I don’t always succeed but I strive for that.

  528. 528.

    frosty

    @Kay: ​My goal is not to be last.

    Haha, yes! That was me in track and cross-country. I ran the mile because they didn’t have enough good runners to fill out the lineup. One race, only one, I came in other than dead last. I still remember the opponent and my time (5:33). Glory!!!​​

    ETA Oh well, here I am after all. I didn’t take my own advice about long comment threads.

  529. 529.

    cain

    @Kay:

    Yeah it’s silly. Palestinians don’t have as much agency in their circumstances. Hamas is a horrible org that sees everything as assets to be exploited.

  530. 530.

    suzanne

    @different-church-lady:

    And it didn’t even matter which side people were on — some people chose to be smart, and some chose to be stupid on both sides of the argument.
    So, what it comes down to in the end is: if you want to keep it real, you have to choose to be smart about it.
    If you do that, then contentious things can be discussed among adults without damage.​ 

    I agree with that. It was obviously impossible to keep fear out of the discussion. I wish more good faith had been extended, though. I see snark about “disloyalty” and I think it is toxic.

  531. 531.

    Citizen Alan

    @Soprano2:  I had to learn from an elderly aunt that the reason my RWNJ sister seems to have lost her damned mind over the last couple of years has been the fact that her daughter/my niece is dating a black man. In the few family gatherings I have attended, the topic has been so studiously avoided that I was wondering if all three of her children were ace like me and just didn’t date at all.

  532. 532.

    Spanish Moss

    @hobbitdreams: I think it very much depends on the circles you run in. I have four adult sons in their early thirties and they follow politics closely (I raised ’em right!🙂), and so do their friends. This is all anecdotal, of course.

    We had an interesting discussion with my 90-year-old aunt the other day. She asked my sons what they thought a younger president could bring to our government. They got into a lengthy discussion about addressing issues around technology (privacy, security, genetics, global warming). They were horrified by the Senate hearings in which CEOs of major tech companies testified (Google, Facebook, etc.), and it was painfully obvious that most of the Senators have no clue. They not only want a younger president, they want a younger legislature, because many of the olds are too out of touch to lead on some of these issues. This is a factor in the enthusiasm gap.

    They are super excited about Kamala!

  533. 533.

    Soprano2

    @hobbitdreams: Man, I hated marching band so much that I chose to go to a school that didn’t have it, because since I was a music major who played flute I would have been required to be in it if the school had one.

  534. 534.

    frosty

    @NotMax: ​Yeah, short is not good for getting elected. I have a picture with me next to John Fetterman. I *might* come up to his shoulders.
    Damn, I miss Alison Rose.​

  535. 535.

    Barry

    @Layer8Problem: “Mind you, that might swing at least a few Republicans in Congress onto an impeachment and conviction of President Vance.  I mean, you know, for form’s sake.”

    They would need 67 Senators. After Trump drove them out of the building in fear of their lives, only several did not bend the knee.

  538. 538.

    gvg

    @jonas: One complication with evaluating him is that he is rich owner stupid. That is, he really has spent most of his life in a situation where he could fire or walk away from people who told him what he didn’t like, and he has not realized he has caused his information to be lies. Even other rich businessmen who could force him to accept truths, have realized they could more easily take his money by telling him what he wanted to hear.

    Decades of this. It’s like he was raised in another dimension. The soviets lied to their people all the time, but when they saw the western countries themselves and the prosperity, they could break free. In Trumps case, reality is worse for him, not more attractive.

    I can’t imagine being in his place. I don’t know how to account for that factor. Even most much richer CEOs didn’t inherit everything, nor are they majority owner of a company. Usually, they have stockholders and board members they need to please. Trump doesn’t.

  539. 539.

    Soprano2

    @hueyplong:  I was and am so proud.  But he spoke softly and moved slowly.  That would have been the story if Kamala wasn’t running.  We’re where we should be, and I say this as a Biden supporter.

    That’s where I am, too. I am honestly relieved that I don’t have to bite my nails every time Biden speaks, because you know if he was still the nominee the press would be honing in on every misstep and sign that he’s old, while still totally ignoring all the signs that TCFG has major problems of his own as far as that goes. It’s unfortunate, but we have to live in the real world, not the one we wished we live in.

  540. 540.

    Soprano2

    @different-church-lady: Oh man is this true. Sometimes I waited a day or more to say something because I wanted to make sure I did it without name calling or being hateful, and sometimes it was hard to do. As they said in Dune, “Fear is the mindkiller”. I think a lot of us were so terrified we were losing our minds over the situation.

  541. 541.

    Soprano2

    @Nelle: There is also a type of parent who feels frazzled and not that happy with raising children who wants everyone else to be as miserable as he/she is, and is resentful when seeing childless people who are living happy lives.

  543. 543.

    piratedan

    chiming in on the “all politics is local front”… on VP thoughts, there is kind of a double edged sword to Shapiro in regards to Arizona and his support of school vouchers.

    Arizona just reported a revenue shortfall over the last year with the GOP Superintendent of Schools and the state lege implementing a voucher program that was directly responsible for blowing the state budget to pieces.

    Since the GOP is immune to hypocrisy and are responsible for the issue, I would fully expect them to use Shapiro’s support against him (as I said, the GOP is immune to hypocrisy as far as the media is concerned… after all, they’re running on immigration failures here even tho they were responsible for scuttling the deal).

    does it matter… dunno, but with dark money ads and the way issues get framed, you just never know.

  544. 544.

    Citizen Alan

    @Fake Irishman:  10,000? My recollection was that the margin by which Bush “won” Florida was less than 700. I know it was a fraction of the Florida Nader votes and, IIRC, smaller than the number of votes that went to Monica Morehead of the Workers of the World Party.

  547. 547.

    TBone

    @NotMax: exactly.  Plus it has some stupid AI bot helper thingy that tries to answer questions I didn’t even ask!  Edge is so counter-intuitive and ridiculous.  I’ll get my normal device back in a few hours and then, watch out!

  550. 550.

    PatD

    @Sure Lurkalot: I think there should be more nuance around this. Democrats do need to promote growth because it gets harder to win elections without sustained economic success. So you could have an economic agenda that may at times include targeted tax hikes or tax cuts. Obviously the Republicans’ approach is a bit different.

  551. 551.

    Jackie

    @rikyrah: That pisses me off like you can’t believe 😡😡😡

    And, sadly I’m not the least bit surprised. I’m very sure he’s NOT the only one.😢😡

  553. 553.

    Martin

    You motherfuckers are going to make me defend that WaPo headline…

    That headline is the WaPo trying to tell Democrats that this has become a valid question because historically when shit like this happened, our candidates have often made the decision to take the high road and not say anything unflattering about the GOP candidate and then we got our asses kicked in the election – John Kerry just let the swift boating happen. That headline is supposed to be translated ‘Yo democrats, you gonna fight back this time or what?’

    The pivotal moment is not whether Harris will embrace her blackness, the pivotal moment is whether she will choose to punch Trump so hard his bronzer flies off.

    Many (not all) of these ‘the media hate Democrats’ things presented as evidence are just the media trying to tell Democrats they suck at politics, and it’s not the medias responsibility to do that job for Democrats.

  554. 554.

    Ruckus

    @Kay:

    He supports shit policy. It’s baffling.

    It’s baffling that he supports shit policy? How is it baffling? Some people really do not think through their ideas or they grab onto someone else’s ideas because they seem easy, or simple or both. They do not actually investigate how these ideas work out, they hear them or that 5 watt bulb goes on in their heads and bingo, a great idea, simple and boy should it work well! And that is the totality of their research, concept and process. This is absolutely some people’s ideas in, around and about politics. Or actually many other human concepts. They had the idea, therefore it must be a grand, great, sound idea. I’m not saying this is his process, just that of many humans. And because they can’t or refuse to look any farther into the concept they forge ahead and create nothing new, better, workable. This is the history of humanity, from day one, and will likely be till the end of time. It takes boldness, actual thought – looking at ALL the sides of the issue and process to see the history of the process and it’s implementation and the results it likely or does lead to. Many/most humans never do this, at least to the level any major process actually needs. I call it the “Oh that should work process!” I manufactured tools that most often required one to sit and look at the concept from every angle before doing one second of manufacturing, to insure that the project actually worked and did what it was intended to do, down to microns of tolerance. It takes effort and knowledge to work, even poorly. It takes a lot more to make it work well, especially if humans are involved, if for no other reason, many humans do not do or are not capable of the actual effort required to do things well.

  555. 555.

    Matt McIrvin

    @different-church-lady:

    So, what it comes down to in the end is: if you want to keep it real, you have to choose to be smart about it.
    If you do that, then contentious things can be discussed among adults without damage.​

    Yeah, but, everyone has to choose to be smart about it. You can’t make it happen unilaterally–best you can do when things are far gone is get out of the conversation, which is what I did most of that time.

  556. 556.

    Juju

    @Princess: my mother has a vascular form of dementia, not Alzheimer’s. Trump’s behavior reminds me of my mother in her earlier stages of her dementia.  It seems that the dementia really enhances the core prickly part of her personality. She’s considered advance dementia now. She’s capable of some things but not others, but still knows who she is, if not where she likes lives, or the fact that she doesn’t share her house with a fraternity that drops in at night and does weird stuff.  The dementia has taken her short term memory and is turning her thought processes into something that does not make sense. It’s difficult and I hope it’s not genetic. She had a sister who had a very similar form of dementia.

  557. 557.

    Soprano2

    @Juju: I don’t think vascular dementia is hereditary, but the conditions that cause it like diabetes and strokes are. That’s what my hubby has too. I’d say he’s still pretty early stage; he has problems with short term memory but can still do most things OK. He walks very slowly, although the caregiver doing PT with him has helped that some. He can’t remember to take his meds at all, I give them to him or he wouldn’t take them. I think it’s also taken his filter off some, there have been a few times when he was irritated with me that he told me to shut up, and he never would have said that to me before.

  558. 558.

    Ruckus

    @Juju:

    Fortunately or unfortunately there is a level of genetics to everything we do. We are animals and we inherit who and what we are from our parents. Now some of this we build from a start and we have some control over. But that is a learning process and some do not learn well or a lot. Others do. We have a seemingly reasonable opportunity to learn better, more, reasonably but many do not even try. It’s humanity, good, bad and indifferent.

  560. 560.

    Ruckus

    @Juju:

    Most of us also loose some of our brain processing ability as we age.  And of course we all age slightly differently. Now we may fit into groups which make up the overall process of aging, IOW we all age in different ways, but we do so within a few aging processes. From Alzheimers to fully cognizant of the process. And the age from start to finish can be quite a few years. I’ve watched a lot of family and extended family go through this and while, like all things human, it is less different than some might think it is very often quite different for any individual in a grouping, such as immediate family.

  561. 561.

    Quadrillipede

    @suzanne: I’m not saying that people should share their word salad.

    🧑‍⚕️Ask your healthcare professional if Word Salad™ is the right choice for you…

  562. 562.

    Quadrillipede

    @Jackie: According to DonOLD, during the interview debacle yesterday, voters don’t vote for the VP candidate – voters vote for the top ticket.

    According to DonOLD, ‘It’s all about meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee…’

  563. 563.

    Quadrillipede

    @Eunicecycle: Until extremely recently, there was no real evolutionary advantage to being able to understand e.g. quantum mechanics. It may be as simple as that… 🤔

  564. 564.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @tam1MI: Absolutely.  That’s the nuanced way to respond that doesn’t gloss-over the Anti-Semitism aimed at him.  I totally understand peoples hesitation over school vouchers and especially the mishandling of sexual misconduct in his campaign.  I suspect VP Harris won’t pick him because of those.  But singling him out as GenocideJosh, even though his stance is basically the same as all the other candidates, is pretty blatant Anti-Semitism so we should be honest about that.

  565. 565.

    Misterpuff

    @Ken:

    Also a reminder that Trump may disclaim Project 2025, but he’s surrounded by people (including Vance) who are very much onboard and would certainly use the 25th Amendment to get Trump out of the way.

     

    While the drafters of Project 2025 are vile and may make up many of Trump’s Cabinet members, I don’t see how the plotters would run a Section 4 mechanism. During the planning stages, operational security would be imperative but I’m sure Trump’s most loyal toadies would squeal on them to Donald. And given the powers invested in his Presidency by SCOTUS, he could easily send anyone accused of disloyalty to Gitmo or worse.

    The only way this would work would be to make the plans before the Inaugural and do it Day One.

    Cut the head off while its still partying.

    I do think some are capable of this but its a big gamble.

    Fascists are gonna Fasch, so we must not let them close to winning the election.

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