This is the first time I have ever seen Pete Buttigieg look anything less than 100% comfortable.
What a welcome!
Open thread.
Reader Interactions
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.
Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.
Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!
A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.
Technically true, but collectively nonsense
Donald Jessica Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!
Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL.
We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.
The current Supreme Court is a rogue court. Very dangerous.
Fuck that bum, let’s go Joe!
It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!
Damn right I heard that as a threat.
Everything is totally normal and fine!!!
… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop
“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.
Nikki Haley, who can’t acknowledge ‘slavery’, is a pathetic shill.
Biden: Oh no. We’ve upset Big Pharma again.
Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.
“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”
The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.
Come on, man.
Their freedom requires your slavery.
People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.
The words do not have to be perfect.
Martin
Petes got rizz.
Princess
I think there are two ways for Harris to go with a VP pick: choose someone who can get you a percentage or two in a swing state (Shapiro, Kelly). Or choose someone with national name recognition among people who are not like us. (Buttigeig). I’m Team Buttigeig. Harris doesn’t have time to introduce a Wallz or a Beshear to the rest of the country because she still needs to introduce herself (again, not to us but most people are not like us). If she comes out beside Wallz and there’s a collective reaction that she’s standing beside her Dad, there’s not enough time for either of them to change that impression.
HumboldtBlue
Pete’s got IT, and everyone recognizes it.
Baud
They’re introducing the women’s beach volleyball players like it’s professional wrestling. Weird.
pika
@HumboldtBlue: Not everyone–there was one dude in that audience golf-clapping
Martin
@Princess: I think she has time. We’re not late picking a VP, this is when it always happens. Remember, France did this whole thing in like 10 days.
karen marie
Are there odds on Trump dropping out?
I would laugh and laugh if he did.
VFX Lurker
Open thread post: I blocked a former co-worker on Facebook this morning. I had unfollowed him ages ago, for reasons I have since forgotten. I had a Tuesday post on my feed that said:
He wrote this comment on my post:
I deleted his comment, then blocked him. I did not write him an explanation or an argument. I just pulled that weed out of my Facebook garden.
karen marie
@Princess: As an Arizona voter, I will be annoyed if she picks Kelly. I like having a no-drama senator, and the chance he gets replaced by an asshole is too high for my taste.
@Martin: I understood Harris is announcing on Monday.
Ryan
She isn’t black? Are we all looking at the same politician? And who cares
‘
KatKapCC
@VFX Lurker: I mean, props to him for knowing there’s a difference between sex and gender.
(That was sarcasm.)
This “she isn’t Black” thing is so frigging bizarre.
clay
I am curious about if there would be much continuity between the Biden administration and a potential Harris one. I feel Biden’s cabinet has been doing a good job for the most part, but I understand if Harris would want to put her own stamp on things.
(The last time the presidency changed but the party didn’t was ‘88, so it’s a pretty rare thing to think about.)
Eduardo
@karen marie: Zero. Because the chances him going to jail will multiply
Jackie
@Martin: I like this short timeframe very much. The only difference between selecting a VP this time around and other years, is the time allotted for vetting. Days vs months.
But every candidate on Kamala’s shortlist has already been vetted for office to a large degree. This is more a chemistry vetting than a qualification vetting.
Baud
@clay:
Many top people will resign simply because it’s a hard job and they want to move on. That would be true even if it were Biden’s second term.
Citizen Alan
@KatKapCC: Like Obama, Kamala is a Shroedinger’s POC. She is simultaneously black and not-black. The wave form does not collapse into a single possibility until the Republican observer decides which of the two options is best for whatever dumbass point he wants to make.
KatKapCC
Very unrelated, but this is good:
I hope this works. That absolute slug. I imagine that in addition to just being the right thing to do, it’s also somewhat personal for Newsom since his wife was one of Weinstein’s victims and his lawyers were horrid to her on the stand.
Baud
@VFX Lurker:
👍
hueyplong
Watching Donald Trump whitesplain that Harris isn’t black is probably quite the treat for the AA portion of the electorate. Trump no doubt thinks he’ll now get even more than 30% of the black vote.
different-church-lady
PETE: “[Vance] has proposed you get extra votes if you’re a parent.”
STEWART: “You don’t even get that in your own house!”
KatKapCC
@Citizen Alan: They also don’t seem to know how genetics works, and that if two people of different races have a baby, that baby is of both races.
WaterGirl
@HumboldtBlue: In 2019, it seemed like satby and I might be the only ones who thought so.
*slight exaggeration
WaterGirl
@pika: I still haven’t figured out for sure if the golf clap is high praise or an insult.
MattF
Got my New York Review today. There’s an essay by Fintan O’Toole in it, dated July 18. The essay is interesting because it was written before Biden left the Presidential race, and it is about the bleakest piece of political analysis imaginable. Gives you a view of how much has changed, and how much can change in a couple of weeks.
karen marie
@Baud: Wouldn’t cabinet members still have to be confirmed by the senate as members of a new administration?
Dadadadadadada
@KatKapCC: He seems to have one or both of them confused with race, so maybe withhold even sarcastic credit.
WaterGirl
@VFX Lurker:
Huh. Doesn’t that mean that you don’t NOT vote for someone because of their sex or gender or race?
WaterGirl
@karen marie: There is no guarantee of a Democratic senator if she picks Kelly. That plus he’s fairly conservative for Democrat; I don’t think it will be Kelly.
Baud
@karen marie:
Yes.
BR
I got it folks, the ultimate dark horse candidate for VP who is:
Good on border issues
Can talk with upper midwest voters
Youthful energy and very earnest
Is going to be out of a job soon anyway
Justin Trudeau
Baud
Kamala should pick Joe Biden as her Veep.
Martin
@Baud: Yep. I’m curious if she’ll clean house with the AGs or not. It’ll be curious to see what she does with Lina Khan. I hope she keeps her but maybe tempers some of her breakup inclinations. There are other, sometimes better ways to address some of this than breakups.
KatKapCC
@WaterGirl: Good catch!
different-church-lady
I’m watching the whole clip and holy shit if Stewart ain’t going deeper into real things than any NPR interview I’ve heard in years.
Baud
@different-church-lady:
I didn’t watch the clip, but always glad to hear he’s not acting like a douche.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: OMG that would be great. Is the VP term limited?
karen marie
@hueyplong: My favorite part is Trump surrogates like Alina Habba boasting that she knows her “roots.” Few black people are able to trace their ancestry because in most cases there are no records of their forebearers.
WaterGirl
@KatKapCC: Because someone who would promote the “she’s not black” bullshit is almost guaranteed to be a good thinker with internal consistency. //
No One of Consequence
@Citizen Alan: Citizen Kane clap for the adherence to physics.
-NOoC
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
I don’t know but it won’t happen. Frankly, Biden deserves better.
Martin
@KatKapCC: They’re essentialists. Trump definitely is. His ‘I only let Jews count my money thing’. He believes that race, gender, nationality imbue innate characteristics in a person. And if he doesn’t know what label to put on them, he doesn’t know what those characteristics are.
I also think he thought Harris was attractive back when he didn’t realize she was black (when he gave her the campaign donation), and he can’t quite square that up.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Biden deserved better. There are plenty of bigots on our side too.
WaterGirl
@Martin: I’m not sure Trump is capable of finding a darker skinned female attractive.
Jess
@Citizen Alan: That’s brilliant.
Martin
@schrodingers_cat: No. 22nd amendment applies only to Pres.
Ken
Not that the Democrats needed it, but Vance’s vetting — consisting, as far as I can tell, of Trump’s “he liked me more than anyone else” — was certainly a lesson in how not to do it.
Hildebrand
Our bench is deep enough that whoever Kamala picks will be the right choice – mainly because she is the one who will work with this person the next 4-8 years. They need to be complementary and compatible. Seems that’s more of a personal vibe thing.
karen marie
@Martin:
He also donated to her subsequent reelection campaign.
Splitting Image
@KatKapCC:
I think most of them know how genetics works, but what they really object to is the fact that society actually allows two people of different races to have a baby.
They’re not kidding about going back to the 1950s. That is, before Loving vs. Virginia.
Jess
Once again I’m blown away by Pete. I would love it if he were picked for VP, but I accept that that’s unlikely to happen.
Urza
@schrodingers_cat: If they were VP only no. But as president Biden would be limited if he became president again.
Jess
@Baud: This one is worth watching.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Heh heh, Sec Pete is great. Please don’t pick him to be VP, it’ll be a waste but next time he runs for President…
Martin
@Splitting Image: Well, more notably, which race you will be labeled as isn’t your choice – it’s society’s choice. Obama was going to be black whether he liked it or not.
Martin
@Jess: 1 in 6 chance.
Geoduck
Does Buttigeig really have that high of a profile? I suppose more than any of the VP short-listers…
SatanicPanic
@WaterGirl: he dated Kara Young, a black woman, in the 90s.
@Martin: I bet he still does find her at least a little bit attractive, that’s why he’s scared
Tony Jay
So, let me get this straight.
The MAGOP’s super-smart counterpunch to Harris becoming the Democratic candidate is to claim that she’s somehow running a con on Democratic voters by pretending to be black – thus forcing them to give her their votes out of White Liberal Guilt – when she’s really just an Indian-American like the rest of those Jamaicans?
Look, I’m as big a fan of arrant nonsense as the next bloke, but next to this desperate flailing about everyone claiming J.D. Vance cracks one out over his neighbour’s couch cushions whenever they leave their back door open was virtually Cronkite-level trustworthy.
You can’t even really mock it. It’s that tuneless.
different-church-lady
@Splitting Image: Additionally, the whole fuckin’ concept of ‘race’ is based on people being different because they were separated by oceans. Like, it if weren’t for oppression and domination, who would even give a shit if you were a chestnut or a bay?
different-church-lady
@Tony Jay: ”She won’t even decide which thing we hate she is!”
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@KatKapCC: They took the Chapelle Show racial draft sketch literally.
ira
@karen marie: Fwiw, Scaramucci tweeted yesterday, ‘Don’t be surprised if Trump drops out.’
One thing’s for sure: either if he drops out or if he loses the election, he will flee the country immediately.
Princess
@Martin: Yeah but everyone in France already knew the players in the game long before those ten days because party leadership is not decided as part of the election process.(and in the UK and in Canada, and in the other countries that are usually brought up as examples of quick elections). Candidates in the US normally have a year before the convention to introduce themselves to voters through the primary. Harris has 40 days before people start voting.
oldster
@WaterGirl:
Racists have seldom had any trouble being attracted to women of color, at least as sex-objects.
I’m sure Trump is broad-minded like that, too.
Old Dan and Little Ann
Biden and Obama had a genuine relationship. As did Biden and Harris. I expect Kamala Harris to follow this pattern and pick someone that she can love and trust.
Darkrose
I like Pete; he’s definitely grown on me since 2020. That said, I really don’t think a stint as mayor of South Bend and 4 years as Transportation Secretary are enough experience to be a heartbeat away from the big chair. I would like to see him in a statewide elective office before becoming VP or President.
Maxim
@Baud: He was a bit, but not too badly.
twbrandt
So Harris isn’t black, and Buttigieg isn’t gay.
These people are so weird.
Snowlan01
@Urza: He has only had one term. So even if he becomes president again, he is not yet term limited.
different-church-lady
@Old Dan and Little Ann: He referred to her as almost an equal the entire time. It was always the “Biden-Harris” administration. I believe he’s been thinking about this possibility all along. Maybe he didn’t want to accept that the time for it had come sooner than he wanted it to, but he knew the likelihood was real and set the groundwork for it from the beginning.
Baud
@different-church-lady:
Agreed. I don’t recall any president giving his veep that much exposure.
different-church-lady
@twbrandt: But the cis woman boxer is a man.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Darkrose: compared to the Trump ticket he’s way overqualified but that’s a low bar. A potted plant would be overqualified compared to them.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
People looking too closely at her hair. Close your eyes and listen to the voice. The voice is the tell. Cadence. Word choice. Cultural shit.
Geminid
@Geoduck: Pete Buttigieg may well have a higher national profile than the other prospects right now. But that will change if and when Vice President Harris picks another candidate.
RandomMonster
That’s where I’m at. I admire him a lot, but I wish he had more experience.
Baud
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
Harris/Ficus 2024!
Jackie
@karen marie:
I thought she was referring to her natural hair color.
No?
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Darkrose: I think when he’s not Transportation Secretary-ing their residence is in Michigan. Whitmer will be term limited out of office in two years. Maybe he makes a run to replace her?
Tony Jay
@different-church-lady:
It’s like that. More or less.
Bupalos
My smart 18YO daughter is honestly confused by the idea that Buttigiege wouldn’t be the VP when he just flat lays it down like no one else. I have to explain “well, he’s gay and has kids, which people are like “wow, that’s a new thing!!” so that’s something that Kamala has to think about and whether she wants to bite that off plus when he ran before there was a “mayo pete” thing because he’s so white…” and she just looks at me like “what the actual fuck are you talking about????”
She literally cannot understand the language I think politics is supposed to run on and is just like “DUH THAT DUDE FUCKS UP WHOEVER IS STUPID ENOUGH TO JUMP IN HIS PATH….”
And I think “yeah, this is a guy that goes on Fox and the sleepy producers have to be like “CUT CUT CUT!!!!” and try to get their on-air talent to not get hypnotized.
KatKapCC
Do we know when she’ll be announcing the pick? Or is it just in the “sometime soon” realm?
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@different-church-lady: I mean, I’ve never had an especially high opinion of Trump. I was still gobsmacked that the man managed to make it all the way to 2024 not understanding multi-racial identities.
I’m not even asking for any particular sensitivity or wokeness (from him), but how do you not understand that many, many such people exist?
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Baud: Barrel Cactus would help us win Arizona.
BR
@Bupalos:
I dunno, he legitimately has less experience than a number of the other contenders. He’s a bright guy, but being able to speak well is only a small part of the job…
Ramona
@oldster: Word!
Martin
@Geoduck: Yeah, he does. His Fox News and congressional testimony clips regularly make social media. He does fun things like read angry tweets about airlines. He’s pretty visible to young voters, especially within the urbanist movements which are probably bigger than you might think.
Remember, AOC was the most recognized member of congress 3 months after she got elected. You don’t reach voters on the Snooze Hour any longer.
MomSense
My mom loves Pete. We just watched the video and she just adores him. We are going to be happy no matter who the Veep nominee is, but it really does feel good to feel good about our options.
Citizen Alan
@karen marie: If Kamala wins but Dems don’t hold the Senate, I think there will be a constitutional crisis in the very first month, as the GOP decides that they won’t confirm ANY cabinet nominees while she is president? I mean they were perfectly open about their desire to leave the Scalia’s seat open for the entire duration of Hilary’s term had she won.
Ohio Mom
Off topic:
Ohio Dad, for unfathomable reasons, suggested Olive Garden for Ohio Family’s traditional Friday night supper out. Since this is probably the third time in a row he’s made this suggestion, I said Yes to get this out of the way.
As a consolation prize, i ordered a glass of white wine. Hardly ever drink these days, but boy, this buzz is very nice. Maybe I should do this more often.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
I’ll even go as far as to argue that speaking well is significantly overvalued.
M31
new conspiracy theory: Harris will pick Biden to be her VP, then after 2 years and a day, she resigns, making Biden President again, but he’ll be able to run for another term, serving 10 years total
study it out, people
it’s Biden’s nefarious plan
Bupalos
@Geminid: Im pretty sure Harris won’t pick Pete because it’s too risky and there are a lot of other party voices here too… but she’s been shocking me to the good for a week so I’m ready to be shocked again.
But she won’t do it.
Shock me Kamala.
Martin
@Princess: I mean, they formed a new electoral coalition during those 10 days. Like, that’s not a small thing.
Bupalos
@M31: Then he invades Ukraine??
Dangerman
Trump isn’t dropping out if he still has a heartbeat (yes, assumes he has a heart and isn’t some animatronic asshole, but roll with me here). Coma? Still running.
Maxim
@Darkrose:
@RandomMonster:
Generally speaking, I would agree. But Obama had very little experience, and he did all right. If he had to, I think Pete would rise to the occasion and do better than (most) everyone expected.
Bupalos
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: That explains how you were a Biden dead-ender.
Jackie
@KatKapCC: Kamala’s barnstorming with her VP elect starting Tues. So we’ll learn Mon, or have The Big Reveal Tues in Pennsylvania.
I don’t think she’ll do the TCFG thing, so… guessing Mon.
BR
@Jackie:
Might be Sunday evening, because I think the delegates have to vote for the VP on Monday.
dmsilev
@KatKapCC: Sometime this weekend was the last I heard.
oldster
@M31:
It’s so clever, it’s…diabolical!
CaseyL
@ira:
Not going to happen. Besides Trump’s plethora of pathologies that make quitting the race anathema to him, he’s in too much legal jeopardy if he drops out.
If the GOP really wants rid of him, they’ll have to find another way… IYKWIMAITYD.
I wonder how many of them are thinking about it….
BR
@Old Dan and Little Ann:
I think this is right. Biden didn’t know Obama much, and Harris didn’t know Biden much before they became running mates, at least as far as I know. But they must have gotten a gut sense that there was a genuine-ness in the other person that made them the right partner.
Ksmiami
@karen marie: if they debate, she should thank him for his donations
KatKapCC
@Jackie: Cool, thanks! I’m kind of excited about it…hopefully on this site, that won’t make me seem like too much of a dork :D
Martin
@Ohio Mom: Didn’t they all close?
Jackie
@Citizen Alan: If the GQP pulls that immature stunt, Kamala will have a whole lotta “Acting Whoevers” – like TCFG reverted to, to avoid confirmation hearings.
Princess
@BR: My bet is on Sunday.
Geminid
@Princess: Also, that French election was a 28 day affair, not a 10 day one. President Macron called a snap election on June 9. The first round of voting was 21 days later, on June 30. The 2nd round of voting was held July 7.
BR
Following on from the “White dude for Harris” account getting suspending on Felonius Muskrat’s site, tonight’s “Progressives for Harris” account got suspending. I’m sure it was their fault and they deserved it. /s
KatKapCC
@Martin: You might be thinking of Red Lobster. I don’t know if all of them did, but a lot of locations closed. (The two chains are owned by the same company, though, I believe.)
Bupalos
@Martin: France is in a precarious place. This “coalition” they spun up in 10 days is somewhat of a primal scream with almost nothing to hold those guys together. Consider it’s probably true that the “far left” that just gained a ton of voters really probably is the place the Olympic sabotage came from.
If I was going to pick a western country to truly experience democratic collapse in the next 2 decades…. France is 2 or 3 on the list. USA is like 5.
Jackie
@BR: Boy, Sundays have suddenly become political Breaking News days!
Martin
@KatKapCC: Oh yeah, Olive Garden failed a few years ago and managed to hang on. Waiting for it to fail again.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Bupalos: Sorry, I missed what you had to say while I was watching Biden perform well at his actual job.
ETA: For the record, I was a vocal Biden skeptic four years ago and for a long time stretching back through my entire adult life.
Biden sold me on Biden as President. He proved himself AS President. The man deserves recognition. And people broadly need to be less superficial.
CaseyL
@BR:
They should get on X just long enough to post a link to a Mastodon/BlueSky/Threads account.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: Dude, WTF?
BR
@Bupalos:
Given that there have been simultaneous acts of sabotage across Europe, not just in France, I’m skeptical that it has anything to do with the left’s political organizing there.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: Don’t we have some kind of new “don’t be an asshole” rule around here?
SiubhanDuinne
@KatKapCC:
Monday, or so I’ve seen somewhere (probably on this very blog, take it for what it’s worth).
Bupalos
@BR: We really really really need to stop fluffing Elmo by sending all our traffic and thoughts through his little machine he bought.
The objection that it’s just so much easier and hey I couldn’t provide as much content and algorithmic capture if I didn’t take advantage of the greased rails he offers….
STOP. Provide less content. Stop using his pipeline it’s a fucking trap!!!!
Baud
@different-church-lady:
Wait, what? Did you guys do that while I was away?
different-church-lady
@Baud: Well yeah, how else were we gonna get over your veto?
Geminid
@CaseyL: Trump is in deep trouble, and I think he believes the only way out is through– to reelection. He won’t give up now.
I doubt if Republican officeholders and other elites will press Trump to drop out. They may go into a triage mode instead and try to take the Senate. They could believe the House is out of reach now, which it is. But a break with Trump would cost down-ballot candidates election. They need Trump’s loyalists on their side to have a chance.
Chris Sununu’s recent op-ed could be typical. He distanced himself from Trump but not explicitly. Sununu is looking towards 2028.
karen marie
@Jackie: I wouldn’t be surprised if that were her fallback position.
@Citizen Alan: No matter which way the election goes, we’re in for a shitshow. Obvs, it will be much worse should Individual-1 win but, yes, I think we’re all clear that the entire GOP will do everything they can to hamstring the Harris administration
@Ksmiami: I’m screaming with laughter. That would be perfect.
SiubhanDuinne
@Martin:
That was Red Lobster, I think.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: What? I mean “politicians don’t really need to be able to command language effectively” is a really… um… it’s…ah…a take. It really does open up vistas for me, where before I was like “WTF ARE YOU POSSIBLY THINKING.” Now I start to get it.
Beehives are held together by something the scientists call QMP, queen mandibular pheromone. Human societies, pretty much the same thing. “Sure, Biden can’t talk well anymore, but that’s not what matters….” This is actually a moment of understanding!
different-church-lady
@Geminid: One day Trump will be dead.
Where does the GOP go after that? It’s very hard to believe they’ll return to a state where an ordinary conservative like Sununu has a place at the top.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Bupalos: Biden spoke effectively. Too many people don’t listen effectively.
What percent of your early primate brain engaged that night with a vague sense of “Trump look tough, Biden look weak…guuuurrrrr.”
David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch
10 days that shook the world
Omnes Omnibus
Wha?
different-church-lady
@Bupalos: You are Cliff Clavin and I claim my five mugs of beer.
Another Scott
@different-church-lady:Kimberly Guilfoyle
It’s obvious, isn’t it??
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: I was referring to you being a jerk with no provocation.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@different-church-lady: You mean renowned actor Thomas Friedman, right?
Bupalos
@different-church-lady: Nope, Cole very specifically endorsed the idea of “being an asshole,” claimed it, gave it historical grounding on this blog, and reinterpreted it as an important element of positive diversity.
He’s right.
catclub
I think they would like to say the word mongrel, but are not there yet. They might get there.
Eolirin
@Princess: France is also geographically tiny in comparison to the US and has a much smaller population, with far fewer regionally and culturally distinct populations, let alone media markets.
different-church-lady
@Bupalos: Ah. So leaning in is your choice.
Jackie
Karl Rove on Faux today:
TCFG is gonna call Karl a RINO after he hurtles the ketchup… 😳🤭
KatKapCC
@Bupalos: Slagging someone for not “commanding language effectively” when they have a lifelong stutter is kind of gross, dude.
NotMax
FYI.
Google lays an egg.
Google pulls Gemini AI ad from Olympics after backlash.
UncleEbeneezer
This!
Jay
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/trump-s-ex-lawyer-giuliani-booted-from-bankruptcy-after-fee-dispute-resolved-1.6988021
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s the operating theory of the French authorities, that the same far-left/anarchist end of the spectrum that gained the most voters in the recent election is where the olympic sabotage came from.
Things are still developing. But the theory that the French election was some kind of straightforward win for the status-quo against the far right is way under examined.
different-church-lady
@NotMax: It’s easy to see where they went wrong: tech utopists always think everyone is as into having a machine replace humans as they are, because they’re scared of interacting with human emotions.
M31
here’s my prediction for the VP race — Harris picks Walz, then PETA has a shitfit because Walz joked with his vegetarian kid about eating turkey.
Trump/Vance enlist PETA as their main advertising partners
Harris/Walz win in a landslide
japa21
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s a day ending in a Y.
mrmoshpotato
@Jess: That was worth it. Thanks for vetting it.
different-church-lady
@M31:
How’s PETA gonna work their way around the cannibal thing?
Bupalos
@different-church-lady: Well yeah, to the extent that “being an asshole” really means “offering an opinion that doesn’t fit comfortably into the conventional wisdom.”
I mean, this poster has massively, by a factor of 10 or 20 exceeded the rhetoric I’m offering here. The whole spectrum of “traitor” and “backstabber” and whatnot, and I thought “how does someone work themselves up this way?”
And I really feel like this is the answer. This poster doesn’t think command of the language matters much in politics. And I just mean it really straightforwardly, that now I understand how someone could be so convinced that there was a nasty conspiracy against Biden, because it makes perfect sense if being able to talk good is something this poster thinks is a small part of politics. Biden is manifestly losing control of the ability to communicate clearly and effectively, but to this poster that just doesn’t matter, so if you’re acting like it does matter and matters a ton, then you must be in some kind of conspiracy.
Martin
@different-church-lady: They have to break the fever of white christian nationalism first. Basically that crew need to decide they have no national political path to power, and I can’t really predict when that might happen. Once that does happen, a LOT of them will drop out of national politics entirely and focus on that effort at the state level (shades of the 1960s segregationist movement).
Once those people leave, what does that leave them with? And I think that’s anyone’s guess.
karen marie
Well, well, well, looky here:
Baud
@different-church-lady:
It’s PETA, not PETP.
M31
@different-church-lady:
PETA ran a bunch of fucking pet kill shelters, they have no principals whatsoever, Trump offers them $$ they’ll take it
JD Vance gets the Naugahyde couch endorsement
Ksmiami
@karen marie:Sometimes I have a sense of humor
KatKapCC
@karen marie: Quelle surprise!
lowtechcyclist
@Citizen Alan:
My wife also liked this when I read it to her just now.
different-church-lady
@Bupalos:
Well, that’s not what it means.
Lyrebird
@BR: Biden knew Harris through Beau; she and Beau had worked on AG stuff together. He (POTUS) said that this was one of the reasons he chose her as Veep, because they already had a strong and positive working relationship.
That’s why I thought it was gonna be Cooper.
Harris Campaign said somewhere that she’ll announce at or by the Philly rally, and that we should not assume anything about that location as a predictor of who.
KatKapCC
@M31: My partner and I are both vegetarians, and we have a number of veggie/vegan friends and a few relatives. NONE of us like PETA. In fact, I’d say we all loathe them. They’re just about self-aggrandizing flash and spectacle. They’re like the Code Pink of animal rights.
Timill
@KatKapCC: No: Olive Garden is owned by Darden (as are Cheddars and Ruth’s Chris) whereas Red Lobster is owned by some vulture capitalists.
[Checks: RL used to be Darden, but was sold in 2014 and again in 2020 per wiki.]
Geminid
@different-church-lady: It seems to me that when Trump loses, Republicans will need several election cycles to sort themselves out.
But someone has to win the 2028 nomination. I don’t think it will be Sununu, but it could be Brian Kemp or Foungkin’ Youngkin.
Lyrebird
@Bupalos: Uh I think it was your bringing back the “deadender” insult without apparent provocation or a snark tag?
lowtechcyclist
@Martin:
Absolutely. They say that breaking up is hard to do.
BR
I was just thinking about “executive experience” that people often talk about, and realized that governors get credit it for it in a way that others don’t. But the scale of the Department of Justice in CA for the Attorney General to manage (like Harris did) is on the scale of the whole government of many medium-size states.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
US mixed relay team just set a world record in their qualifying heat.
Cheryl from Maryland
@VFX Lurker: I have a cousin somewhat like that. He lives in Wasilla. Every time he shares something hostile and stupid, I delete and put him on the 30 day time out.
Geminid
@BR: I read once that when Kamala Harris was California’ AG she oversaw 5,000 attorneys, among other staff.
Bupalos
@different-church-lady: I’m not trying to start trouble. It was a genuine reaction. It explains things.
Yes I do know that if I react to a statement like that, that being able to communicate effectively is not a very important part of politics, and connect it to the recent unpleasantness… well, that revisits that unpleasantness. But it really does explain it to me. There were a lot of people (a minority) who could not understand where the other side was coming from, and this really does kind of offer an insight.
Sure, “dead-ender” was ill-considered. I tried to edit but timed out. But no one did the same “asshole” act when this poster was spewing “traitor” “bedwetter” “backstabber” which was more ill-considered. And those terms were offered AFTER we moved on to a manifestly better candidate, which I think does somewhat but not sufficiently redeem the term I used but would now retract.
Kay
Exciting!
BR
@BR:
Then again, looking at it more, the Department of Transportation, which Pete now oversees, is 10x larger than the CA Department of Justice.
Bupalos
@different-church-lady: It is part of what it means.
different-church-lady
@Bupalos: I’ll take that as leaning out.
BR
Some people are saying Joe Manchin should be VP. For the memes.
WaterGirl
@SatanicPanic: Wow, I am surprised.
Ohio Mom
@Martin: Not in souhwest Ohio. There are two the same distance from our house, one north of us, one south of us. What that means I leave as an exercise for you, Martin.
Jackie
@Kay: An all-star staff!!!
Hopefully egos are checked at the door with everyone focusing on The Ultimate Goal: BEAT TCFG RESOUNDINGLY!!!
WaterGirl
@Jackie: Is she the one who said you can fake smart? But not pretty?
Martin
@BR: Dept of Transportation has a LOT of moving parts and interacts with the Biden agenda in important ways. In the last 4 years it’s been WAY higher profile than usual.
If you don’t engage in your local city council politics, people may not realize how much transportation and transit has taken over as an issue. There’s a focus on it now that hasn’t existed in decades.
Jackie
@WaterGirl: That’s the one! 🤣
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: Yes.
Bupalos
@different-church-lady: Much as cole embraces the term, I don’t want to be “an asshole.”
I do want to offer a counter-narrative to the still-prevalent take here that our erstwhile candidate was really just peaches and cream and a victim of conspiracy. A media conspiracy and internal conspiracy of secret wreckers that just pretended to believe it matters whether your candidate can effectively explain in public why reproductive rights matter. That we’d still have that just-as-good candidate if not for the various conspiracies. “It doesn’t matter what communication skills candidates have” is really the lynchpin of that spiel.
I think it matters that we actually digest what actually happened here. Which is a great thing that reflects well on our party and on everyone. And aren’t like “well, the conspiracy was foiled…by…Biden turning the tables…good thing the secret wreckers were foiled at the last minute….”
mali muso
@Kay: Love this. Bring on the A-team and let’s slay the dragon once and for all.
KatKapCC
@Timill: Ah, okay. I knew they used to be because it felt like 98% of the time, if you saw one of them, the other was right next door.
japa21
When this all started, the day Biden chose to step down, on his own, knowing he could still win, a lot of people were commenting that with the Olympics about to start, this would give Harris time to get settled in without too much scrutiny. That fact that this has come together so rapidly, so well coordinated and so enthusiastically received by the Dems, is really remarkable.
The Olympics haven’t had a muffling effect at all.
Baud
@mali muso:
I like slay the dragon as a rallying cry.
BR
@Martin:
Yeah, and Pete has been really good about connecting it to what everyday people care about in their daily lives — bridges and flights and transit and such.
KatKapCC
@WaterGirl: Yeah, and I was like…okay, well you can start “faking smart” any day now. I’m sure all seven of her brain cells would be excited to finally have something to do.
Bupalos
@Ohio Mom: Maybe you should load the fuck up. Olive garden wine is cheap and (one presumes) just as effective.
Jesus though, slap that MF’er.
different-church-lady
@Bupalos:
Then you’ve got some work to do. But I’m glad to see you’ve started.
Bex
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Speaking well is one thing, but twisting the knife when it needs to be twisted is a rare and valuable skill. Pete twists the knife so well that his opponent doesn’t even feel it. A VP who can do that is a gift to his boss.
different-church-lady
@Bupalos:
“What happened here” is quite a number of things. Some of them good, and some of them bad. Some of them helpful and some of them harmful. Some of them right-headed and some of them wrong-headed.
Your decision to relentlessly focus on a single set of those things and pretend none of the others occurred is quite ‘irksome’, shall we say.
WaterGirl
@mrmoshpotato: So my putting it up on the front page wasn’t vetting enough??
SiubhanDuinne
@catclub:
I think they’d love to bring back terms like “half-breed,” “quadroon,” and “octoroon” if they could.
MomSense
@Omnes Omnibus:
Being called out for being a jerk seems to be a one sided thing. Lots of coup, betrayal, passive aggressive claims of bigotry and racism are fine.
It is what it is.
Geoduck
@Timill: Even if loses again, I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if the Shaitgibbon is back again in 2028, assuming he’s even nominally upright and breathing. (Possibly being in jail may or may not stop him.)
Bupalos
@Bex: No he speaks well. He thinks well. He has a ton of excess mental capacity which allows him (like BClinton) to basically launch into a fully formed, fully planned paragraphs, and do it on auto-pilot while he sharpens the knife for that final thrust.
Josie
@WaterGirl:
I just watched the whole interview. Late to the party. It was so good–honest and hard hitting. I wish we could see that sort of discussion regularly on television. Thanks for putting it up.
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl: Sorry. Fair point.
I just find myself not really able to stand Jon Stewart these days. Having more people suggest it’s worth watching helps.
WaterGirl
@Bupalos:
That 3 weeks was so much fun, I bet we all want to re-litigate all of it!
Or, here’s a thought, we can choose to not stir up the shit that was painful enough to live through the first time..
JoyceH
Here’s a theory on the MAGA bafflement about Harris being black – how can she be, if she’s got an Indian mother and a Jamaican father? Right?? In other words, Trump and most MAGAs do not realize that most Jamaicans are black.
Starfish
@Baud: I watched it, and I don’t know if Pete was friendlier to this interview or if they assured that they would not get him in Hatch Act violation situations that he was not absolutely shutting Stewart down the way he shut down people in the New York Times interview.
WaterGirl
@KatKapCC: I think she’s faking pretty, too.
Chet Murthy
@JoyceH: Ehh, they all know she’s Black. They’re just taking a position, in hope that if they say it often enough, and loud enough, others will believe it’s true. And then maybe Black voters won’t vote for her. It’s The Big Lie in action.
Bupalos
@MomSense: Yeah, it’s particularly ripe with this poster. I mean, even long after everyone was trying to Kum Bye Ya, even after I engaged this poster with radically deescalatory language, this is one of the ones that was slinging the “traitor” and “backstabber” shit.
And I really just mean it. If people literally think that effective communication isn’t an important trait for a politician…. That really explains how we were so at odds.
UncleEbeneezer
@KatKapCC: You can also reverse it for people unfamiliar with Code Pink and describe them as “The PETA of progressive activism” 😂
Btw- thank you for speaking up about he problem of Anti-Semitism on our side of the political aisle. I’m not Jewish, but I’ve been listening to more and more Jewish voices in recent months (Liberal Zionists, not MAGA) and really seeing just how common-place it is in Progressive spaces, especially since 10/7. I appreciate people who are willing to broach the subject in good faith to try to start difficult conversations.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Nothing akin to traitor or backstabber are in my lexicon.
I don’t think I said bedwetter either, but that sounds closer. I think I referred to pants-pissers.
But that’s OK. Democrats are renowned pants pissers, especially older ones. I vote for them anyway.
And I’ll take someone who presides effectively and doesn’t speak especially smoothly over the reverse any day of the week.
You have no idea how strongly I feel about how downright shameful it was how Biden’s campaign ended. If I told you how I really felt you’d have to be hospitalized for psychological damage. But none of it has a thing to do with “betrayal.”
different-church-lady
@Chet Murthy: Trump ‘just said shit’ and now they have to figure out how to defend it. There’s no strategy to what Trump said, he just brain-farted out loud and they have to figure out how to put icing on the turd.
Frankensteinbeck
Deleted because WaterGirl is right. Positivity is good.
Starfish
@KatKapCC: It is not that they don’t know how genetics works. It is that they like lying. Would Harris have gone to Howard University if she ONLY saw herself as Indian-American? Maybe, but that would have been a rare thing.
MagdaInBlack
@SiubhanDuinne: I’m kind of surprised they aren’t aware of the “one drop rule.” They’re living in the past in every other respect.
Bupalos
@WaterGirl: Yeah. Fair. I know it’s hard to believe, but it was initially an honest “oh maybe this explains it” reaction.
“It doesn’t matter if a politician can talk well???!!”
I mean, I can hear that argument and keep it in bounds if I’m ready for it, but understand that it’s a take that is likely to destabilize things if you’re not ready.
WaterGirl
@mrmoshpotato: I am not a fan of Jon Stewart either.
different-church-lady
@Frankensteinbeck:
And then, fortunately, quickly became Harris.
Baud
Reddit
sdhays
@BR: The guy with the least relevant experience is Kelly. That’s just a fact. I’d still happily vote for him, but his resume doesn’t say “ready to seamlessly step into the most powerful position in the world on day one” at the same level as others.
Pete now has major administration experience including working with Congress on legislation and reporting to them. Seeing the way he has responded to those new responsibilities, I feel confident he could take on VP and the Presidency if necessary.
catclub
and would claim they never met Colin Powell.
Chet Murthy
@different-church-lady: I have to disagree with you on that. I think that TCFG has been practicing The Big Lie for longer than he even had designs on politics: I mean, going back to the 80s when he used to work to get his name in the papers as a publicity strategy. I think he had in instinctive understanding of The Big Lie (though heck, maybe he learned it at Roy Cohn’s knee, whatdoIknow?) and that is the lens thru which we should view everything he ever utters.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
I like how you take my statement, that smooth rhetoric is overrated and run with it to some exceedingly false extreme.
I don’t know whether I disrespect this more or the flat out lies you included alongside.
rikyrah
@Princess:
Walz is Santa Claus 🤣🤣
I can’t unsee it.
And, I have totally fallen for him as a VP candidate
rikyrah
Talking about JD Vance 😒😒😒
Jaime Harrison (@harrisonjaime) posted at 6:04 PM on Fri, Aug 02, 2024:
In what world do you tell a 7 year old to “shut the hell up?”
And this weirdo “sociopath” wants to talk about parenting?!
Maybe he needs to shut the hell up!
https://t.co/08yHKKiHgD
(https://x.com/harrisonjaime/status/1819509706802573325?t=mFnBSPD5RobVWaXcZ-mn3w&s=03)
different-church-lady
@Bupalos: Your mistake was to go ad hominem instead of just saying, “That’s dumb.”
I ain’t saying others haven’t made the same mistake.
Starfish
@mrmoshpotato: He does annoying things like make faces at the camera and make strange noises that may have been more endearing when he was younger. He has also shot bothsiderism into his veins for years, and the longterm effects of bothsiderism are just not good.
In this case, everyone loved the interviewee so there were only a few minor quips by Stewart here and there.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: A Democratic Arizona Senator would be guaranteed short-term if Kelly is on Harris’s ticket, because Democrat Katie Hobbs would appoint his successor. Medium term, I think the Democrat would likely win the special election in 2026, but we’d still be rolling the dice.
And Kelly’s reeelection chances in 2028 look good. He’s a strong Arizona candidate. This makes me think Vice President Harris won’t pick Kelly unless she is certain he adds the most strength to the ticket this year. That would override downstream considerations, I think.
Jackie
@Geoduck: I think in ‘28, assuming Harris wins (🤞🏻!!!) it’ll be Don Jr stepping in for daddy. TCFG will be in prison.
Princess
I think Bupalos is drinking too much in the evenings these days. Might want to rein it in a bit there.
Also, maybe this is the time to confess that whenever I see his nym this comic comes to mind;
http://www.ethicsandculture.com/blog/2016/beware-the-sea-lion
SiubhanDuinne
@KatKapCC:
Anybody besides me remember when Balloon Juice was littered with ads, and one of them was a PETA ad featuring Pamela Anderson with three breasts? (I think it was actually a weird optical illusion.) Anderson was a fairly vocal member of PETA, but I never could figure out what that photo had to do with being vegetarian or not wearing fur.
chemiclord
I find myself quite annoyed at Stewart’s antics to try and defuse his actions; trying to paint himself out as a powerless onlooker who held no sway on the political climate.
No, Mr. Stewart, you and your ilk didn’t “force Biden out.” You helped create a political climate that made it impossible for him to continue. You have become the very thing you claimed to hate; a narrative driver.
Lyrebird
@rikyrah: Hockey Santa Claus
:-)
BR
@sdhays:
Agreed. In terms of what I think of as relevant experience for the job of VP (executive experience, herding cats in congress, foreign policy, etc.), I think it’s:
Walz
Pritzker
Beshear
Pete
Shapiro
Kelly
WaterGirl
@Frankensteinbeck: I’m not suggesting that we be rah-rah positive. But maybe not picking at the scabs that are maybe just starting to her is a good idea.
I loved the idea someone (can’t recall who) suggested in a thread last week. Amnesty for all of us for that time period.
Maybe remember that it happened because we all care so much, things got pretty hot, and it’s hard to be your best self when your world is blowing up.
MomSense
@WaterGirl:
Does that apply to everyone? People are still using language like shivved and coup plotters and that language is unchallenged. Is that how it works?
Matt McIrvin
@Geminid:
It’ll be Trump, if he’s still alive.
If he loses in 2024, they’ll all claim he really won, again. If he wins in 2024, there will be some truly bizarre justification for the Constitutional term limit not applying to him, possibly involving adrenochrome and the flat Earth.
catclub
If he is there should be a lot of Pat Paulsen jokes
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@different-church-lady: Right. Going into this there were absolutely no guarantees that the result would be a nominee with any semblance of voter imprimatur. The loudest segments of those pushing it definitely wanted the voters written out.
different-church-lady
@rikyrah: It’s like Noem and the dog-shooting thing. The amazement isn’t that it happened; it’s in the “this is a thing I want to brag about to the public” part.
MagdaInBlack
@mrmoshpotato: I felt the same. I don’t like watching him anymore. I wanted him to just stfu.
KatKapCC
@Bupalos: At first glance I thought this said “shut the fuck up” and I was like, hey, I know there’s a lot of tension these days but I don’t think we need to get this volatile over someone’s restaurant preferences!
Sally
@VFX Lurker: “I’m not” might have worked.
“My mother is Indian, my father is Jamaican, I am American” is all she needs to say.
Bupalos
@Frankensteinbeck: No, he cannot deliver great speeches anymore. Come on. He’s struggling to just read what is written, really struggling… Go compare the “America owns the finish line” speech he delivered for Hillary in 2016, it’s not even night and day, it’s a terrible night on a bad mattress and day. He frequently no longer even listens to what he reads because he’s so deep in concentration on the cognitive task of reading.
He can’t do that part of the job anymore, even as he’s better than most at a lot of it because experience matters.
This is coming for all of us. Maybe this is partly an “I’m afraid of getting old, losing my faculties, and dying” thing. Maybe it’s peculiar to a blog where the average age is probably 70. Biden is declining rapidly, just like all of us will at some point. Hell most of us are right now.
MomSense
@Bupalos:
It’s ironic on a thread about Buttigieg when literally the praise is about how well he communicates.
WaterGirl
@MomSense:
Yes, in my opinion, that applies to everyone.
I have barely been on Balloon Juice for the past two weeks, so I don’t know who has been saying that, or when. But I saw it here so I called it out.
I would call out language like shivved and coup plotters if I saw it. I am just one person, but I will call it out if I do see it.
different-church-lady
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Like I said above: a lot of people said a lot of things. Some were legit, and some weren’t, on both sides.
MomSense
@WaterGirl:
You used “kneecap” as a front pager. Yes, my opinion is just like shooting someone in the knee in order to torture and cause them great pain.
different-church-lady
@MomSense: Are we really gonna pretend we don’t understand metaphor again?
Lyrebird
@Princess: Thanks Princess for the link, I heard ArchTeryx use the term and didn’t know the whole profile.
BTW thanks also for sharing your observations re: NABJ debacle and dementia. Wasn’t sure if I might be the only one – and hey anyone else I am NOT SAYING it excuses his arrogant racist bullcrap – watching and seeing ooooo boy looks like a dementia patient to me.
LIKELY IRRELEVANT BUT I WILL SAY IT ANYWAY:
I have said before, really shows the difference it makes to love your spouse and have their love in return. Michael Cohen is a changed man, free of being the nazi’s “fixer”, because of it. This horror show of a GOP candidate apparently has more people who think they will profit from propping him up than he has people who care for him as a person.
WaterGirl
Rehashing those 3 weeks makes me want to bang my head against a wall.
edit: Figuratively speaking.
MagdaInBlack
@rikyrah: Me too 😉
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@different-church-lady: Hey, the conversation I actually wanted to have about the media overly aggressively driving the political narrative was the I/P conversation, but that seems to have died down.
Josie
@rikyrah: I agree with Jaime. I raised three boys and am helping with two granddaughters. I never even came close to using language like that. Even now that my boys are grown I would not do so. It’s abusive.
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: I think that when it comes to Trump’s position in the Republican Party, it’s either up or out this year.
Starfish
@rikyrah: Jaime Harrison was a politician in the South. “Shut the hell up” is practically a state motto for southern states. The phrase “Children should be seen and not heard” was pretty common in the South even though it goes back to at least Middle English.
The real issue here is that J. D. Vance tells his kid to “shut the hell up” and then brags about it.
MagdaInBlack
@rikyrah: And wow, that’s some man-spreading display he’s got going on. Placement of the tie just perfect.
What a flaming asshole this guy is.
topclimber
We understand that Kamala is mixed.
We understand that Mein Trump is mixed up.
Let’s mix it up then, shall we?
NotMax
@rikyrah
Weird is as weird does.
zhena gogolia
@chemiclord: Very well put.
MomSense
@different-church-lady:
It is an expression that has a definition.
Sally
@Darkrose: Yes, this
IMHO, two more years as a cabinet sec, in a different post, then four to eight years as Governor – he will be fantastic.
Jackie
@rikyrah: His philosophy of parenting is: “Spare the ruler; spoil the child.”
Geminid
@WaterGirl: Please remember to be careful. You could hurt yourself. Maybe locate the safer spaces betweeen the studs by lightly tapping your forehead against the wall first. Then, let ‘er rip!
Bupalos
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
Your statement:
In my understanding, being able to speak well is not a small part of the job of a politician. I’m honestly open to different takes, and honestly thought your deemphasis here on the importance of being able to speak well did in fact explain some of the difference between those who thought we should stick with Biden and deployed heightened and personalized language around that preference and those who said “move on.” It’s an honest thought complicated by my ill-considered use of “dead-ender” which I apologize for.
sdhays
@BR: Yeah, that’s kind of my list. I like Walz a bit more than others because I think he’s a bit more of a “whole package”, but as I like to always say: happy to vote for any of these guys.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@mrmoshpotato: I watched yesterday. I figured “if Pete can handle the devils on Fox, he can surely handle the douche on the Daily Show!” And he did.
KatKapCC
@WaterGirl: Yeah, I’d guess very little about her current looks came from her parents.
Jeffro
Ok, we did a Fro Family straw poll about VP Harris’ pick for her VP, and here are the results:
(you had to pick your DREAM pick and then who you thought Harris WILL pick)
Fro: DREAM-Stavridis, WILL-Walz
Ms. Fro: DREAM-(Michelle) Obama, WILL-Shapiro
Froette: DREAM-Buttigieg, WILL-Walz or Shapiro (she couldn’t pick!)
Fro Jr: “leave me alone, I’m trying to play video games here, you know I’m voting for Harris regardless” 🤣
KatKapCC
@UncleEbeneezer: Thank you, although…it gets to the point where I realize I have to leave a conversation because the only thing it’s achieving is giving me heartburn and making me want to cry. I like arguing but not over my own humanity.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Bupalos: I don’t need your apology. I would prefer if you realize politicians have an actual job once the campaign is over.
Obama was far better at public speaking than virtually anyone I’ve ever seen. He wasn’t as effective as President as Biden was. Granted the culture changed in the intervening years. But words are wind and actions need to merit consideration.
mvr
@Urza: Actually I think he would be limited only if he bacame president with more than half the term left to go. LBJ could have run again despite having finished Kennedy’s partial term.
(Probably one of the gazillion posts below already says that but I’m commenting to what I see now.)
Jeffro
@Geminid: someone does indeed have to win the 2028 GOP nomination…I cannot tell if that’ll be some MAGA pretender or “trump was a disaster” guy like Kemp or Youngkin.
I know it won’t be anyone who tried to have it both ways, like Haley
KatKapCC
@Jackie: By 2028, Don Jr will either be dead or locked up in a padded cell. That’s where snorting roughly 74 pounds of coke over your life will get you.
WaterGirl
@MomSense: I did not know that knee-capping was shooting someone in the knee. So I looked up kneecap after reading your comment. You’re right, that’s the definition that’s listed, but I had no idea.
I think of kneecapping as what that skater did, hurting someone so they cannot continue on their chosen course.
edit: And yes, it was a metaphor. I never thought that anyone actually took a bat to Joe’s knee.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@KatKapCC: So you’re saying I’m safe with at least another half a pound…?
@WaterGirl: It’s more about the target than the weapon, from what I understand.
catclub
@CaseyL:
Whattya mean the sniper missed? he’s as big as a barn.
Martin
@Starfish: Yeah, but there’s also a bit of nostalgia in that. That’s not an attitude which has persevered over the years. Increasingly that is seen as abusive and traumatic to children.
Martin
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Gotta win before you can govern, and the former is by no means assured.
MomSense
@WaterGirl:
The Tonya Harding Dems slam – well that is so much better. Nothing says good faith disagreement like equating a different opinion with striking someone with a hard object so they can’t continue. Assault is a good way to resolve conflict.
SiubhanDuinne
I had so hoped I wouldn’t have to use the pie filter again any time soon, but sadly….
eclare
@Starfish:
I’m from the south, and I was taught that telling someone to shut up is one of the rudest things you can say. I can’t believe he told his seven year old son that.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Martin: How silly of me to think people could look past shallow impressions to actually consider someone’s work product. Fool that I have been…
Starfish
@Martin: It is, but I think a lot of Southern states are still having to be encouraged not to beat the children. Corporal punishment is still allowed at schools. Here is a thing from the Southern Poverty Law Center.
I am afraid to say that as an adult I saw someone beat their child at a party over some thing that was nothing.
WaterGirl
@MomSense:
Do you know what post I used that phrase in? Or at least a timeframe? I see that you referenced it in my July 26 post, but I have no idea when I used it.
A lot of people said things I found hurtful, including you, but it was a stressful and ugly situation.
I am in favor of trying to let the animosity go – I don’t want to lose friendships over this, I don’t want to lose your friendship over this.
I am seriously in favor of the amnesty idea where we accept that our world was exploding and no one was at their best or communicating at their best.
206inKY
Hot damn, sounds like Andy’s getting a real look. The hit pieces are already starting and the best they can do is try to paint him as a “nepo baby.” It’s all bullshit of course: Andy has been a highly effective leader as Attorney General and Governor, with a huge wave of people power behind him. He established his own name as Attorney General and ran a disciplined and well-organized campaign that chased down rural votes, not just “running up margins” in Louisville and Lexington.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/kamala-harris-andy-beshear-running-mate-b2590352.html
Gotta love Scott Jennings wailing how unfair it would be to have him on the ticket while also concern trolling:
“Jennings told The Independent he was ‘dumbfounded’ by Beshear’s place on Harris’ shortlist compared with other potential picks, including Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro or Arizona Senator Mark Kelly.”
There’s also this gem:
”Jennings also suggested that Beshear’s background as the son of a former governor wouldn’t do him any favors, calling him someone who ‘sort of slid into this office on his dad’s coattails’ and then merely performed adequately during times of need. ‘We had a tornado. He went around and he hugged people and handed out cases of water. I would expect any governor to do that. I don’t think that makes you a brilliant politician,’ he said. ‘He’s a figurehead who hugs people when the weather gets bad. That’s effectively what he does. And there’s no magic in that.’”
The GOP will be so screwed.
KatKapCC
@WaterGirl:
Seconded.
PatrickG
Another interesting thread that started out well then turned into BupaPIE. Oh well.
Jackie
@KatKapCC: Touché!
How about Lara Trump, then? Eric’s too stupid. Ivanka’s not MAGA enough, if at all.
topclimber
@BR: Doesn’t hold a candle to Trudeau.
Chet Murthy
@PatrickG: you’re not wrong.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: It’s a metaphor that is widely used, along with many others that imply violence but don’t mean it literally.
MomSense
@WaterGirl:
Amnesty idea is fine in theory but in practice it means that only the people who disagree with the majority here need to consider the feelings of others and not say anything that may be hurtful. Everyone else gets to keep being passive aggressive and saying hurtful things.
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: Well, it felt to me like an attack on Biden, and I guess “attack” and “violence” aren’t exactly unrelated.
That’s how I felt at the times and that’s what I said. I didn’t intend to be hurtful, and I suspect that the majority of us didn’t intend to be hurtful to the people who say the situation completely differently than we did.
In this situation there were literally good people on both sides; even though it did get ugly, it’s mostly good people here.
I am working on trying to let it all go, and it’s my hope that other people are, too. But we can only control ourselves.
Gvg
@catclub: I have always thought of us Americans as mongrels, and that was a positive trait! Leaving the toxic stupidity of noble bloodlines versus commoners behind. We forbade granting titles here. Because so many of us don’t really study pre American history, many people have no idea how good we have it.
WaterGirl
@MomSense:
Why does it mean that in practice?
Are you considering the people who wanted Biden to stay in the majority?
Assuming yes, i am trying to understand. Are you suggesting that the folks who want to keep Biden are being passive aggressive and still staying hurtful things, 2 weeks later? And that everyone thinks that’s fine?
And that none of the Biden needs to go folks are being passive aggressive or saying hurtful things?
Seriously, I have no idea because I have not been reading the blog.
As I said, I have barely been on Balloon Juice for 2 weeks, so I don’t know what’s happening. I had hoped that everyone would be ready to forgive and forget and move on.
So when I saw someone picking at the scab, I spoke out. Do you think that was a bad thing?
Seems like the fight now is to win in November, and harboring ill will isn’t helping any of us do that.
Chet Murthy
@Gvg: And breeders tell us that hybrids are healthier, more vigorous than purebreds, and I always thought/hoped/felt that we had that going for us too. Esp. here in California where you can just -see- the hybridization in-progress.
geg6
@Bupalos:
Go back to LGM. That’s more your crowd. The common clay. You know…assholes.
MomSense
@WaterGirl:
Yes. Yes.
PatrickG
@Chet Murthy: genuinely wondering if the new policy applies here. This is thread after thread that’s devolving. I only pied five people during the Epic Debate, and I’ve unpied four.
so when a full quarter of the thread is pied, it shows!
Btw Omnes, thanks! You’ve become my reliable barometer for “I was right to pie”. Once I see you pied in a reply I can 100% identify the start of where the thread goes from topical to where Bupalos starts making it personal.
Jackie
@Gvg: “Heinz 57” is how we describe our linage.
geg6
@different-church-lady:
I’m only back because of you and zhena. You keep fighting the good fight against assholism.
The Thin Black Duke
Could we please not do this again? Uncle Joe and Kamala moved on. Why can’t we?
zhena gogolia
@geg6: We miss you.
zhena gogolia
@MomSense: I apologized to you last night but you didn’t reply.
WaterGirl
@MomSense:
Okay, two questions answered, thank you.
And none of the folks on team Biden needs to go are being passive aggressive and saying hurtful things?
MomSense
@zhena gogolia:
I didn’t see it. I’ll go look
WaterGirl
@The Thin Black Duke: That’s how I feel, too.
raven
@The Thin Black Duke: no shit!
zhena gogolia
@MomSense: No need to look. I said “I’m sorry I offended you.”
MomSense
@WaterGirl:
Haven’t seen passive aggressive, but I have seen snarky comments.
MomSense
@zhena gogolia:
Thank you. I really appreciate that. I’m sorry I said to fuck off. I felt really shocked and hurt.
different-church-lady
@geg6: I’m not worthy!
topclimber
@geg6: AI spotted in aisle 13.
different-church-lady
Viewpoint:
* Everyone was scared.
* Some people said dumb and/or hurtful things because they were scared.
* Some people said dumb and/or hurtful things because they were dumb and/or wanted to be hurtful.
What any of us do going forward is the indicator of which category they were in at the time of fear.
karen marie
@JoyceH: It doesn’t matter whether “most Jamaicans are black.” Harris’s father is both Jamaican (Jamaican-American after 2015) and black.
And he’s smarter than Individual-1 or his troupe of sycophants will ever be.
karen marie
@rikyrah: Vance is weird. And disgusting.
The utter cluelessness to think the story he’s telling there is anything but revolting.
Central Planning
@Bex: I feel like Billy Joel’s Stiletto could be one of the songs in rotation, even more when MVP twists the knife.
Geminid
@Jeffro: Kemp and Youngkin won’t have to say Trump was a disaster because that will be manifest. They can skip past that part and move on to, “We’ve got rebuilding to do. Time to roll up our sleeves and get to work!” The two Governors might start walking around with their sleeves rolled up in order to drive home the point.
But there will be plenty of time to handicap potential 2028 candidates once Kamala Harris is sworn in as President. I eat this kind of stuff up, but I also see this as a Republican problem and not mine. Personally, I suspect they will have marginalized themselves for the rest of this decade.
Dan B
@Chet Murthy: Our close neighborhood Columbia City is the interracial couple center of Seattle. It’s a vital and thriving neighborhood. Also the East side which is high tech is very diverse except mostly very well off tech workers, but not completely. It’s great to see the city evolve.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@KatKapCC:
@hueyplong:
Wait. I can’t believe that Trump doesn’t understand the one-drop rule. Maybe JD can get up off the couch and explain it to him.
Geminid
@MomSense: I’ve noticed that the guy who promoted the “Tonya Harding Democrats” slam stopped commenting two Sundays ago. That’s probably just as well.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Geminid:
No it’s not. Many of us who subscribed to that label are still here and will still push back when the usual clique of “valued commenters” keep obliquely flogging that dead horse.
Princess
@geg6: I’m glad to see you here.
Geminid
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Well, evidently the commenter I referred to decided it was just as well he stayed away because that is what he did. I happened to agree with him on the larger question, but believe he took it too far with his rhetoric. It seemed needlessly divisive rhen and I still think it was..
KatKapCC
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
Not until he’s done.
So, you know…after about 45 seconds.
Bupalos
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I do apologize though and yes, I do agree that what politicians do after elections (which is the time where communications matter the most, but not the only time they matter) is critical. And whether you agree or not, I’ll offer that Biden has been the most efficatious politician of the latter part of the 20th century up to now.
And he knows it.
And that’s part of how he almost made a huge mistake. Because it’s now the time where communications matter more than anything, and he is simply past the time where he was remotely adequate at that part of the portfolio. And he almost convinced himself that since he was so good at the rest of the job, he could just kind of wing it.
Bupalos
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I think you probably know that this is a statement of aspiration, a statement of aspiration on behalf of others.
I think you probably know that it’s not realistic, and that to the extent that you’re aiming negativity at people who are talking about the world as it is rather than how we feel is should be, you’re displacing your anger.
J. Arthur Crank
@different-church-lady: Also too: in general the Universe is so fucked up that Trump has an actual shot of winning the Electoral College. It is like finding out that your spouse of 30 years and all of your adult children were secretly mass murderers the whole time. It messes up your mind.
Bupalos
@KatKapCC: I feel like I forwarded that opinion at least 10 times while it was happening, in regards to trying to continue to listen to people using language about traitors, bed-wetters, brainwashed idiots, dupes of the conservative media conspiracy… etc….
Where it broke a little for me is after Joe himself, the very person we were betraying and backstabbing, decided on the course of action he took which the party was trying to get him to…After he joined our side… the same language continued and a new conspiracy theory emerged. That he had planned a counter-conspiracy which he sprung on all of us traitors, foiling our evil plot to… to…. I don’t even know what you people thought we were up to.
Now Joe is in on the conspiracy too, sort of… or not.
Bupalos
@geg6: It’s the internet. There isn’t any “go here, go there.” It’s just “how do I make this screen in front of me feel good.” I’ll try to make your experience of electrons sitting in front of you feel better.
However first….you gave a really bad answer about college financial aid and the impact of the delay on students who need to know their aid status to make a decision ASK ME HOW I KNOW AFTER YOU WERE LIKE THIS WON’T IMPACT ANYONE, I WORK IN THIS INDUSTRY.
You work for some 1 college and you didn’t actually think or care about the issue, you interpreted it as a political attack despite having expertise.
Jackie
This is now the Bupalos thread. Sad.
Bupalos
This is stunning to me. Of people who kept posting It was about 40-7. The toxicity made it gradually dwindle to like 25-5 because it got gross and repetitive. The reason it was that lopsided was that the vehemence and anger of the BidenStays drove away a bunch of posters, the key language being “bedwetter, traitor, backstabber. It was as full of invective towards people espousing a Democratic position (the actual majority position of the party I might add) as I’ve ever seen here.
You probably aren’t seeing that or the toxicity involved because if I recall while you weren’t active you yourself were espousing a very strident position that aligned with the majority. I think you posted a kind of angry screed when Biden decided to withdraw and vastly improve the chances of saving democracy?
I must be misremembering that. I should probably check.
BigJimSlade
@VFX Lurker: Respond back that people vote for Trump because he’s a white man, in fact, he’s basically the modern version of a KKK candidate. (Obviously, don’t respond back if you don’t want to hear any BS from him, but just sayin’.)
Bupalos
@Jackie: Now it’s the Jackie thread though!!!
columbusqueen
@Bupalos: You know what’s really gross? The way you keep relitigating the same issue over and over again in every damn thread no matter what the subject. Go take your bruised fee fees off to a corner for a timeout & drop it once & for all. If you can’t, I’m going to start asking for an imposed timeout, because you’re meeting the Blogfather’s definition of “asshole.”
Bupalos
@columbusqueen: Nope. I’m not the one bringing it up. None of the BidenGo’s bring it up since the two that were really toxic got run or left. The reality is that the fact that there was a vast majority opinion here that was both extremely wrong and excessively loud and rude about it for a few weeks- that got instantly proven really as wrong as anything ever is- has left a weird internet residue that’s a little similar to the “deplorables” thing where people are just looking for someone to offend them about how wrong they were, and when no one actually does that, they find it.
Check where folks accused of doing the “victory lap” have their posts originate. Always responses, and it’s 100% someone ridiculing the stupid idea that Biden is too old, saying it was all a media conspiracy everyone fell for, talking about taking revenge on certain democratic politicians that did this to us (did what, made us have a chance of winning??!), or some version of “some people were saying” and then strawmannirg a BidenGo argument into something about Joe having alzheimers and not being able to sit in a chair..
In this whole episode I have one ill-considered phrase, and it’s “Biden dead-ender.” Uttered ten days after Biden ended his campaign, in response to the idea that people are still slinging around this kind of “backstabbing” language about the party moving to a different nominee when it is just overwhelmingly true that it was the right thing to do and the thing Biden decided was the right thing to do.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
The thing that gets me the most is not the absolute lack of self awareness, but the certainty about the unknowable.
Canadian Shield
I’m a Canadian lurker and the few times I’ve posted anything it’s been ignored but…on the off chance….Ride with Joe and Holy Hell we have to pivot are not that far apart. I think the amnesty idea is good, just accept it (in your heart) and make the peace. That means don’t reply with But…(try to collect points, he/she said blah blah).
Do you want a cookie for being right OR virtuous or…do you want to calm the western world down and bury that Orange A-Hole?
Bupalos
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: The ultimate outcome is unknowable. Hell, maybe we’re better off in the end with Trump winning, maybe he dies in office 2 weeks in and the Couchfucker decides he’d rather go fuck couches and leaves the presidency to Jeffries.
The better electoral position we’re in is objective and undeniable. It’s a question of would you trade Craig Counsel for Chipper Jones and Greg Maddux.
Technically unknowable, maybe Greg and Chipper are about to be injured and Craig is about to float in a world series winning broken bat single. It’s also a ridiculous question.
Bupalos
@Canadian Shield: It’s just a dumb blog. No one is winning or losing office because someone does or does not let a “we’ll get revenge on Nancy Pelosi for this” post go unchallenged or not.
But as far as the health of the blog goes, people should be proud they stuck by biden, they should be proud their party had a better idea, they should be proud Biden is a lion among men and able to put the common good above personal ambition, and they should stop thinking any of this was a conspiracy. The whole thing is a sign of health all-around except for the “narrowly averted disaster almost fomented by a conspiracy” bullshit.
columbusqueen
@Bupalos: Guess what? I’m not talking about anyone’s behavior or opinion but yours. From where I sit, you keep bringing it back up. I wanted Biden to stay, but I don’t keep mentioning the blog’s big fight over & over again. You just said in your reply how terribly wrong we pro-Biden people were. You’re revisiting it again, which makes you the toxic asshole. No one who disagreed with you is going to kiss your bloody ass about how right you were. Now please STFU about the issue for good, or I’m asking for the banhammer.
Liminal Owl
@rikyrah: YES. Also, classic “manspreading” position.
Another dead thread, trying to catch up… I’ll say this anyway in case people are still reading: I posited, back when Trump named Vance as his running mate, that maybe the plan was to pick him and then find a way to kick him to the curb at the last possible minute. To humiliate him publicly in response for Vance’s past remarks. I am not yet entirely convinced that is out of the question.
As for Trump’s “dropping out”… maybe the GQP will get some Russian assistance in dropping him out? (Of a window, of course.)
Liminal Owl
@Jackie: Not Ivanka?
WaterGirl
@Canadian Shield:
I think you should comment more!
brantl
That is really Pete, just killing it.
brantl
@Bupalos: Dick move, buddy. Seriously, dick move
brantl
@different-church-lady: No shit.
brantl
@Bupalos: SO, for the sake of Brevity, please pre-pend all your comments with “Just being an asshole, here” so the rest of us can ignore you completely, Pie-Man.