I have thought a little bit about this, that it’s unusual for the organizing calls to be seprate for various identity groups. In fact, I have been a little bit surprised not to see some backlash from the other side about this.
So I was happy to stumble on this article this morning while trying to figure out which was the correct day / date for the Native Men for Harris call.
Identity Groups Are Mobilizing for Kamala Harris. That Shows Progress
On July 21, President Joe Biden ended his bid for re-election and endorsed Kamala Harris as the Democratic nominee for President. That night, 44,000 Black women congregated via Zoom and raised more than $1M for the Harris campaign. The next day, Black men gathered online with similar results. These efforts inspired white women to come together in bold support of the Harris campaign. Reports suggest that white women’s mobilization resulted in the largest Zoom call in history, and they raised more than $8.5 million in less than 24 hours. This is only the tip of the iceberg, though. Gatherings are happening for Black queer men, South Asian women, Latinas, Native women, and white men.
This enthusiasm is significant as Harris heads into the final months of the campaign, but given that American culture discourages this kind of “identity politics,” many people will see this list of identity-specific calls and think, “If you want to support Harris, do it, but why all this separation?” Why gather in specific groups?
These affinity gatherings might feel odd because of a very American idea that even those joining these calls typically find persuasive. It’s therefore worth understanding the sentiment and why flouting it matters.
Many Americans have been taught that it is generally bad and probably insulting to mention categories of race and sexuality. This is because American culture bombards us with positive portrayals of white people and straight people while insisting that such depictions have nothing to do with demographics; they simply tell the truth. At the same time, we’re bombarded with negative depictions of people of color and of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and trans people while being told that such depictions aren’t related to their race or sexuality; those, too, simply tell the truth. Consider the fact that we feel the need to specify that someone is a Black patriot or a gay hero – as opposed to simply a patriot or hero. In our admirable attempt to be inclusive, we’re also highlighting that people from these groups are not who we typically think of when we hear these terms.
In other words, whiteness is accepted as the norm and as a benign umbrella category, even though it is far from neutral or universal. If we were a more honest nation—to take a seemingly harmless example—our bookstores wouldn’t stop at labeling sections of works by “African American Authors” and “Asian American Authors.” They would also label “White Authors” because neither a white writer nor the work they produce is racially neutral.
Being considered white comes with very particular experiences, like shopping without consistently being followed as if you’re a thief. Because I am never mistaken for white when I enter a store, I am routinely treated less as a shopper and more as a potential criminal. This experience is incredibly common and widespread. Dare I say it approaches being universal for entire populations?
But because their experiences are often negative – and this negativity is silently attached to their identities rather than to others’ prejudice – people of color are encouraged to avoid bringing attention to their specific truths. If they name whiteness, the concern goes, or if they point out how race shapes encounters with other Americans, they risk offending, encountering backlash, and limiting themselves.
This is why seeing Black women, Black men, Black queer men, Latinas, and Desis organizing for Kamala Harris warms my heart. It means the people on these calls have chosen to reject the lie that they must keep their distinct experiences to themselves.
However, it is equally encouraging to see white women and white men organize as white women and white men. Despite all the ways American culture teaches them that whiteness hasn’t determined their life chances, and in stark contrast to the way white women, primarily, congregated in a “secret” Facebook group before the 2016 election, these Harris supporters are insisting upon publicly acknowledging the specificity of experience. Doing so doesn’t automatically erect barriers between them and people of color. Instead, it facilitates an honoring of differences that makes those differences strengths.
By coming together as white people who recognize that the United States has given them very different experiences than it offers Americans of color, they are pinpointing precisely why joining a broad coalition matters. Coalition requires acknowledging that there are very real differences, but that those differences matter less than working together to make gains that benefit people far beyond one’s family and friends. Groups that operate in solidarity with groups that are undeniably different are taking steps that run counter to what American culture encourages and are operating in ways that will ultimately make the United States less hostile for more people.
I hope you’ll read the whole thing at the link up top.
Any thoughts?
Open thread.
Michael Bersin
I’m happy that they are all raising money for the campaign.
Baud
It is interesting. Especially the white groups, because I think it’s been hard for many white people to be proudly Democratic. The Republicans have done a good job convincing many white voters to associate their political party as a component of cultural identity.
wonkie
Yeah, I felt worm and fuzzy about white people for Kamela and you explained why. Thank you for a thoughtful essay.
zic
I think it’s a spontaneous embracing of ‘identity. politics,’ if Democrats are going to be constantly accused of the ‘crime’ of identity politics every time we pursue social justice for people who are not white men, we might as well embrace it and have some fun and put a fantastic candidate in office.
Bex
I saw an announcement of a new group today. Republicans for Harris. Go for it, people!
eclare
The article makes sense to me, and I think it’s a good thing. Ask Taylor Swift or Beyonce or any pro sports team how having an identity specific group has worked out for them.
And yes, there is a Swifties for Harris group, although she has not officially endorsed yet.
hueyplong
Tough to complain about the politics of identity when the GOP is the party that holds up signs behind Trump that read “Blacks for Trump.” Of course, inconsistency and hypocrisy have rarely given them pause before.
So I’ve got nothing.
Aimai
Yes I agree! My husband was on the white dudes call—he’s very yellow dog democrat but he has never been mobilized before. He didn’t want the Harris team to face plant and look like white guys wouldn’t turn out for her. But he was really out of his comfort zone thinking of himself as mobilized. He is much more passive politically than I am—voting and giving money but not door knocking. Partially it’s shyness but partially I think he thinks his needs get met by the candidate he votes for. I would never take that for granted. Even my candidate will have to be pushed to support my preferred policies since those are women’s policies that generally get short shrift.
As a woman, albeit a white one, I’m really used to mobilizing around my identity and considering my identity an important and valuable part of my political life. I think it’s fantastic—it really makes me happy—to see lots of different kinds of people all choosing to support the same candidate and policies. Where Republicans see silos I see something else—that we are all linked through our shared candidate. I remenber this feeling when Obama ran—that everywhere I could find a friend and ally through our shared democratic values and goals.
Baud
@Aimai:
Good to see you.
lamh47
Even if only 50% of the folks on these call lead to volunteers and boots on the ground GOTV apparatus, the identity groups ae fine by me. It would of course also be great if they also voted like they say they will!
My thoughts on the “Republicans for Kamala” stuff…I welcome it, but also know this is just for top of the ticket. I have a feeling there will be a lot of splite tickets this election cycle…Which means we really gotta get out our Dem voters so that we can also get down ballad wins…cause them others folks might vote for Harris/(??white dude), but GOP all the way down.
Steve LaBonne
The article gets it just right- this is not “identity politics”, it’s coalition politics. An absolute necessity for Democrats, and this is a very effective way to do it.
kindness
In 100 years will race and skin tone still be a thing? I don’t mean because of immigration, but because of the children born. Each generation is more mixed than the one before it. We’ll all be mutts and that’s a good thing.
mvr
I think in this context it is a good thing, and a good thing that black women did it first.
But I don’t think it is so in every context. There was/is a point to women’s consciousness raising groups of the sort that I first was aware of in the early 1970s. then a bunch of folks, including people I knew, formed men’s groups that were supposed to be counterparts. It was often part of the rhetoric that men were just as much harmed by sexism as women. At least some of them turned into men’s rights groups. In that context I think it would have been better not to have men’s groups.
I should probably say I’m a man to put this in context.
Also I don’t want to hijack the thread because I think that right now for these purposes it helps for people to do this. I just wouldn’t want to overgeneralize.
lamh47
They found my car last Thursday. Oakland PD called tosay it was found and undriveable. So they towed it to the yard.
I had to go to Oakland PD to get the car release and then take the release form to the tow yard so they could release it to my insurance. Did all that last Thursday.
I spoke with my insurance claim adjuster last Friday. They picked up the car from the tow yard. He said preliminary pictures did look like my car was a likely total loss.
So I guess I should start looking for a new car.
Seems like everybody here has a Prius…ya’ll like Priuses??
FastEdD
Kannibis Users for Kamala. No shame involved, at least where I’m from. Make it so!
Steve LaBonne
@mvr: White men still vote heavily, and white women modestly, Republican. In this context I think it’s important for white people to stand up and be counted as strong supporters of multiracial democracy. I agree this does not generalize to other kinds of white affinity groups being good- given what our society is like, they’re unlikely to be.
bbleh
@Steve LaBonne: yes. And it also goes to “our diversity is our strength.” There’s no reason people shouldn’t be proud of their heritage / sexuality / particular life experiences / what-have-you, nor that they shouldn’t want to associate positively with others who share those things. And when people and groups with different backgrounds / identities can also transcend them to share broader things — say, belief in a democratic system, opposition to religio-nationalist authoritarianism — it’s win-win!
That these groups have emerged and are flourishing is a double win from what I can see. More of this, please!
eclare
@kindness:
I like to think that we are all cousins, ever since those folks climbed out of the Olduvai Gorge.
Mousebumples
@Steve LaBonne: especially in light of Dobbs, I think it’s important for me, as A White Woman to stand up and say, here’s why your vote matters and why you should vote for Harris.
My MIL is vocal to the point of getting into it with a random Election Truther at the grocery store. I doubt he’d be persuadable, but maybe other Wisconsin voters who are listening.
different-church-lady
That would be white American culture who does this…
WaterGirl
@eclare: It’s about the Swifties organizing themselves. I love it, and you may love it, too.
Timill
@lamh47: What was your previous car (now written-off) and did it suit you?
We have a Santa Fe because we needed a car in a hurry and it was available.
WaterGirl
@hueyplong:
I would say that inconsistency and hypocrisy are their middle names!
different-church-lady
In the end it’s only the “…for Harris” part that matters to me.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@WaterGirl: Swifties know their icon well.
Steve LaBonne
@different-church-lady:
Well, we white people don't have an identity, we're just default humans.WaterGirl
@Aimai: So great to see you here! I hope things have settled down for you since the last time I saw a comment from you. Fingers crossed for that.
bbleh
@lamh47: consider also a hybrid. Toyota now makes them under the Toyota nameplate, so less expensive than they were. I *LOVE* my hybrid. 35-40 mpg routinely, power when necessary, and no charging stations required.
different-church-lady
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3FjNY_v_w8
No One You Know
I found it deeply helpful to feel that messages for the audiences matched the audience. I feel there are specific problems that drive white women to resist considering stepping out of the Republican zone. It’s easier to hear that, to be able to connect to how I myself might see my own behavior differently, hearing it from someone who shares the same class/race/ gender perspective. If she can can say it, I can hear it.
bbleh
@Steve LaBonne: “we’re just normal. Why would anyone want to be something other than normal??”
Steve LaBonne
@bbleh: “Then why are you a Republican? Republicans are really weird.”
lamh47
@Timill: My previous car was a Hyundai Sonata. Before that a Hyundai Tuscon.
I’d actually love to go back to a mid-size SUV. The sedan had great mileage, but I’m pretty tall, and the sedans are pretty low. I’m almost 75% sure my current troubles with lower back and my knees are not helped by the lowness of the sedan.
Baud
@different-church-lady:
👍
different-church-lady
@bbleh: When when normal sucks, then we should start considering the options.
WaterGirl
@lamh47: Oh, I missed that. Your car was stolen??? Yikes. Bad enough to have a bag stolen with all your IDs, but no car makes everything complicated.
I assume you have a rental? When I was last in the market for a car, I made sure to rent any car I thought I was interested in. Really loud and annoying turn signal, nope! etc etc etc
I found the process really helpful, and I love the car I ended up with.
SiubhanDuinne
I signed up for (“participated in”) White Women for Kamala, Jews for Kamala, Seniors for Kamala, and one or two other zoom webinars over the past week ++
Every one of them has brought value — it was a kick to be part of the zoom call that broke the internet (white women) — but for my money, today’s Seniors for Kamala was the most fun! Mike and Barb Emhoff were there, and oh yeah, their son Doug, current Second Gentleman and future First Gentleman of the United States, participated as well. The love and joy in that family is heartwarming. Barb and Mike are totally the people I would choose as in-laws or adoptive parents. Apparently it was Mike who dreamt up the whole idea of a special identity group “Seniors for Kamala.”
Brilliant to secure Richard Chamberlain to endorse Kamala! I expect I’m far from the only one whose heart went “pit-a-pat” a little faster on seeing him. 💓💓💓
James Clyburn was wonderful at the top of the webinar, and there have been a number of lesser-known speakers who were all excellent, but the Emhoff family and their joy will stay with me a long time.
different-church-lady
@SiubhanDuinne: “Are you allowed to be all those things?!?”
Jay
https://mockpaperscissors.com/2024/08/04/tfg-puts-america-last-again/
different-church-lady
@Jay: His shock collar must have gone off.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Steve LaBonne: Whiteness was invented by early Americans so Europeans would voluntarily give away their ethnic identities and to make it easier to strip it forcefully from African folk.
bbleh
@Mousebumples: I’ve always taken the point of view in, ah, spirited discussions with MAGAts and their ilk that the target audience is not the one with whom I’m … conversing, but rather others who are listening. This is one reason I rarely get into 1-on-1s with them (another being that, in my experience, they’re not really having a discussion; they just want to EXPRESS and REPRESENT, because it validates and affirms their group membership).
Uncle Lefty
As long as there are no dues I will proudly join Old White Straight Left-handed English Major Dudes for Harris, or any other group devoted to defeating the Convicted Felon.
Soprano2
@SiubhanDuinne: Did you see I wished you happy birthday 🎂 yesterday? 🌹🌹
I also want to say I wish David Axelrod would quit being interviewed. “All the enthusiasm for Kamala is irrational exuberance! The election is still TCFG’s to lose!” Way to try to bring Democrats down, asshole. I don’t think he got what he wanted because he’s still shitting on Democrats. Why is it never rational exuberance?
HinTN
@lamh47: I’m fine with a Prius but prefer the RAV4 Hybrid. Maybe not in your metro area but for country around and about, plus excursions to the big city, it’s great.
bbleh
@Steve LaBonne: I just LOVE that “weird” is the One Weird Trick.
Steve LaBonne
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Indeed so.
Chris Johnson
Lots of thoughts, yeah. Lots.
I’m Finn, Swedish, Scots and Irish in my heritage. Finn from quite recently (my Grandma Aili was a notable translator of the Kalevala).
My heritage has been a succession of people, including me, making heroic strides to overcome HORRIFYING savagery. I have an aunt who nearly got beat to death by her terrifying uncle, in my Dad’s presence, when she was a child. My grandmother banished one of her children for seizures (or perhaps DTs?) and never spoke of her again. My mom disowned me at one point, and turned to alcohol and then heroin stolen from her nursing patients, and I have never seen my grandmother smile at my mom. I have reason to believe Grandma got banished from taking care of the children because she was boozing it up and I personally fell through a glass window as Mom and Dad were just coming home (I still have those scars).
I think it’s very easy for black people to think white people uniquely have it out for them, when in fact it seems to me that white people can be TERRIFYING. I don’t know why. It might have something to do with fighting for existence in the frozen North where just survival was a severe trial. White people are TOUGH. And can be unbelievably mean, and shockingly stoic and brutal. To each other! I aspire to have the merest glimpse of some of the community I see among black, Hispanic, etc. people, because my experience has been so ruthless, cold, and evil that it’s hard for me to understand warmth and community at all. We’ve got a lot to learn from the black cookouts and the taco trucks. At least, so it seems to me.
There are compensations. When I think of white people I also think of John Brown. I think of the abolitionists. Lots of religious fanatics, of course. When white people get a notion of what justice can be, we can be very fierce about it. That ferocity can be turned to good ends. There’s a lot about my own life that is just so horrific that I wish I wasn’t alive, but I’ve identified worthwhile things to do with said life, and I don’t find it that hard to just turn every effort towards stuff that I know is good, even when it brings me next to nothing but the satisfaction of knowing I can do good things if I so choose.
Or so feels this often-morose largely-Finn very white very cis man. Being one of those mean brutal Viking savage and mean people doesn’t have to be a recipe for endless injustice and cruelty. It’s also possible to devote oneself to worthy things and bring the same determination, like a pit bull working as a service dog and bringing its determination to the task of gentleness.
We’ve all got different qualities. America means being able to bring them all to bear, in a context bigger than all of us. That suits me. I would quite happily never vote for another white man like me, for elected office, again, if there were great alternatives every time. That said… when someone like Walz just gets up in Trump’s grill and demonstrates that you can have complete contempt for the guy, or indeed takes a one vote majority and goes ‘and now we will do ALL the right things in Minnesota, because these other white people SUCK!’… well, I recognize a kindred spirit, who has turned his savagery to the cause of good.
You won’t find a fiercer ally <3
WaterGirl
@No One You Know: I think it also gives people permission (emotionally) when they are around other people think and look like they do.
Your regular non-political friends may look at you askance for whatever reason, but if other people similar to you are also excited, that permission can be important to some people.
Me? I was raised to say what i believe and try to do what’s right. So if I’m in a room with 99 people who see it differently, I’m gonna speak up rather than keep my mouth shut in fear of being seen as different.
So after Trayvon Martin when my friends would look at me askance the first time I talked about police murdering black people, that didn’t sway me in the least. Once your eyes are open, you can’t un-see things.
But for a lot of people, hanging with people who look like them and feel the same would can be really important.
Mousebumples
@bbleh: yeah, I think this is accurate.
eclare
@different-church-lady:
Exactly.
HinTN
@lamh47: Get the RAV4 Hybrid! Your back will thank you.
Mousebumples
@HinTN: I also have a Rav4 Hybrid. Depending on your living situation, a full electric vehicle might be worth pursuing?
(Rav4 is great for my family of 4 that needs 2 car seats most of the time. Your individual needs may vary.)
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Soprano2: I’m beginning to wonder if Axelrod found his way into the Obama campaign as a form of long con to become a media mouthpiece against Democrats for decades to follow.
WaterGirl
@lamh47: It’s also a safety issue for tall people. I know someone tall who was in a car accident, and they ended up quadriplegic because there wasn’t enough headroom when he got in a car accident. He lived for a few years, maybe 4 or 5, and then he was gone.
lamh47
Wait…Richard Chamberlain is still with us!! Why did I think he already went on to glory!! I was literally just talking about The Thornbirds…and look who showed up at the Seniors for Kamala call!!
https://x.com/crystal4obama/status/1820198176542081481
Mousebumples
@lamh47: I’m 6 feet tall with a 36″ inseam so I feel you on height. The Rav4 works for me. Granted, I’ve had mine for a few years, so I can’t guarantee what you’ll find available to buy.
RaflW
It has been interesting and educating to be an active part of Unitarian Universalism at the national/denominational level the past 10 years. Ours is still largely a white faith, in terms of total attendance (or the smaller number of members), but we’ve always had Black, multi-racial, Asian, Latino and other racial groups as member-participants.
UUism was actually a bit slow to ordain women, but then went for it with gusto, being more than half women clergy & leaders now. We also moved rapidly into ordaining queer clergy.
Our current and just-past denominational presidents are women, and after a tumultuous resignation by a Latino male president, we had an interim triad co-presidency that was multi-dimensionally diverse.
Our current denominational president is a Black woman. The COO is a Black man. Many trans and gender diverse folks are employed and/or in leadership in various areas.
I say all this because living through the culture shifts, the institutional changes — including some of the problems that have arisen — can be viewed as opportunities in how to move these shifts out into the larger whole. (Note to some of our commenters: I’m talking about the polity/leadership (and followership) culture, not the religious culture. We’re definitely not proselytizers!)
Briefest summary: Most white people can cope.
We-they may stumble around a bit, and may need to coach each other along, and have book clubs and talking circles and all that, while respecting separate POC caucus space. But the culture shifts (not over with in UU-land, certainly) are very survivable and may even lead to … thriving!
We UUs who are in this movement, I think, have a role to play in saying at large: C’mon in, the water’s fine. Yeah we’ve had some pushback, even in UU communities, some shitty white people throw (metaphoric) bombs and make a mess of things.
But I can say with confidence that our Black, woman leader is amazing. And has high confidence in many, diverse parts of UUism. It I think makes me all the more receptive as a white dude (albeit queer) to Kamala Harris as our next US President.
WaterGirl
@Jay:
Oh. my. god. This is when I wish the nuns hadn’t drummed it into me that you must never “take the lord’s name in vane”.
Because I read that and all I can think of is the guy who died on the cross, with a middle name of fucking.
* I am no longer catholic, but I am wondering whether that would be considered a sin to think it, even if you don’t say it out loud.
lamh47
@WaterGirl: Actually, I WFH…I rarely even used the car except to get to the BART station once a week for work.
I worked it out with my mgr to WFH for next 2 months and then revisit going back onsite.
I literally parked the car in my apartment garage on a Monday didn’t even check it again until got the call from PD on a Friday about the car and saw that it was not there!
CaseyL
This is about as timely as you can get, because a friend and I were talking about this just a little while ago.
She sees it as part of the ongoing re-segregation of the US, people defining themselves by their demographics.
I didn’t feel that way, but couldn’t articulate why. This post sets out some of what I was thinking, so many thanks for that! I may send the article link to my friend.
divF
@lamh47: If you have not yet rented a car, let me recommend “Rent-a-Relic” at 5501 Telegraph Ave. Very reasonable prices, and the name notwithstanding, the cars are in good shape.
ETA: I haven’t had a chance to say this yet, but welcome to the East Bay.
WaterGirl
@Uncle Lefty: Love your nym.
Princess
At the risk of incurring the wrath of BJ, I’ll say that I don’t love it for white women and would not participate in it. I get why women of colour (and other groups) need and want their own spaces where their own issues and communities are centered, but white women don’t need a protected space where it’s just us. In fact, we need the opposite — to recognize we’re not the beginning and end of people’s experiences as women. So I wish that one had been an inclusive and diverse group of women speakers and participants.
But I admire the organizers and they raised lots of money, so *shrugs
SiubhanDuinne
@different-church-lady:
I honestly don’t know. But so far, nobody’s shown up at my door brandishing a warrant.
Jay
@lamh47:
Off the top of my head,
A friend who has always had Honda’s since the early 80’s, says the build quality has gone down.
Toyota’s have had several systemic quality and production issues over the past few years.
Subaru seems to still have it’s rep for quality, safety and durability.
Kia has had quite a few issues from “shenanigans” at the dealerships to quality issues.
Hundai here has a spotty record based on the model.
As your vehicle spends most of it’s time parked, get a mechanic to install an electric key lock ($5) into the fuel pump circuit, with the key lock hidden inside the car someplace. If they key is turned off, the vehicle will never start.
w_seattle
I’ve long struggled to understand what is meant by “identity politics”. Mostly it’s used in a negative way to indicate that the issue at hand has particular relevance to a small-ish or marginalized group. But groups of people organizing in a democracy seems like just “politics”. This is even more clear when recognizing that any one person can have multiple salient identities centered on gender, religion, ethnicity, occupation, etc. All of those identities are inherently relevant. Anyhow, I was happy to see the linked essay, which effectively gets at this idea. As a corollary, I’d like to see a more widespread understanding of “identity politics” as a throwaway term meant to convey a negative attitude rather than a specific idea.
Steve LaBonne
@RaflW: As a UU of 4 decades’ standing (though never active beyond the level of my own congregations) I approve this message! We still have a long way to go but we’re finally moving consistently in the right direction and no longer letting ourselves get held back by the relatively small number of UUs who still don’t want to make the trip.
eclare
@Chris Johnson:
Your story is powerful and shows a fierce survival instinct against all odds.
HinTN
@Mousebumples: I looked at the Volkswagen ID4 but ultimately decided to wait for more charging stations to manifest in the southeast. We take two or three trips a year that are beyond the “there and back” range of home charging and I didn’t want to stress over finding a compatible station. Full electric next time for sure!
cmorenc
@Baud: When are you going to organize the men who identify as pant-less for Harriss?
Baud
@CaseyL:
It’s a manifestation of E Pluribus Unum.
KatKapCC
It’s also just been really fun to see all these different groups getting excited, and especially to see the differences in what they bring to the various tables. The strength of diversity of people is that it brings a diversity of perspective — different groups, especially marginalized ones, will have insights and ideas that others may not, and will bring up issues others may not think of, and will know how to reach out to other folks in a particular group when others may not do so well. And then the White Dudes/White Women groups have been about “Okay, we know we have massive privilege, how can we use it for the most good we can now?” which is exactly as it should be.
When people sneer at identity politics and labels and whatnot, it’s because they think those identities and labels are less valuable at best, and worthy of hatred at worst. These various “[X] for Harris” groups are a way to say we’re not letting narrow-minded bigots drive that discussion anymore.
SiubhanDuinne
@Soprano2:
I’m not sure I did, but I belatedly thank you!
Baud
@cmorenc:
Never. We learned our Zoom call was illegal in 35 states.
Steve LaBonne
@Baud: Get a second legal opinion from Jeffrey Toobin.
Mousebumples
@HinTN: same! Limited full electric options a few years ago when I was looking, but whenever I need a new car, that’s my current plan.
lamh47
Sorry for hijacking the thread, but this story about RKJ Jr and a dead bear cub is CRAZY!!!!
https://x.com/demianbulwa/status/1820192205212144008
divF
@SiubhanDuinne:
@different-church-lady:
SiubhanDuinne is large, she contains multitudes.
ETA:OTOH, she doesn’t contradict herself.
RaflW
@w_seattle: To me, “identity politics” in a non-pejorative sense is things like the marriage-expansion movement I was very involved with a decade+ ago.
We had lots and lots of straight (and some straight presenting) allies, but the core of the work to legalize same sex marriage was identity politics. Now, it was really in response to that bastard Dubya using the negative frame of ID politics to have used anti-marriage amendments to cynically boost turnout for one freakin’ election cycle.
But marriage, Pride parades, LGBTQ film festivals, etc seem like identity politics to me (including c(4) organizing, PACs, and that stuff too).
Baud
@divF:
Just what every woman wants to hear.
WaterGirl
I kind of assumed they started with black women for Harris as opposed to women for Harris so a lot of clueless white women wouldn’t annoy the hell out of the black women right out of the gate.
But then they started with all the rest, so now I”m not so sure about that origin story.
KrackenJack
One comment that stood out to me on the (Undeserving) White Dudes For Harris call was that staying silent to let other voices be heard is a cop out. We need to actively engage other white dudes and show that there is widespread support for diversity.
My caveat is don’t hog the stage. Support diversity in leadership and public forums.
Scout211
From the article linked at top:
This good. This is very good.
Bold added.
SiubhanDuinne
@Chris Johnson:
To the best of my knowledge I have no Finnish ancestry, but I have been obsessed with the Kalevala since 1969.
RaflW
@Steve LaBonne: Yeah, the sticks in the mud are a thing, but learning how to move around them and let them stay in their stuckness while the rest grow and flourish, that’s part of what I hope we can transmit more widely.
Belafon
@Baud: I get pushback when I tell other whites that I’m sure my privilege has gotten me things that I wouldn’t have gotten if I was a minority, even though I grew up in a lower class family.
catclub
caterpillar?
Steve LaBonne
@SiubhanDuinne: I have absolutely no Finnish ancestry but I love Sibelius! My community orchestra will be doing the 6th Symphony at our next concert in October.
Splitting Image
@lamh47:
Are we sure that it’s because he’s trying to get in front of a New Yorker story?
Or has he learned that Trump is dumping Coy D. Vance and he’s trying to get in front of Kristi Noem on the animal-killing ticket?
WaterGirl
@lamh47: I think that might be called the double-reverse-hijack because we’re already talking about cars in the post about identity groups for Harris. :-)
Seriously, though, I think the best BJ threads are the ones that are talking about 3 or 4 different things at once.
So my first comment was just teasing.
divF
@Baud: I could see that one coming a mile off, but decided the Whitman quote was worth the risk. Also, the expansiveness intended by ol’ Walt applies equally well to Kamala’s campaign, and Balloon Juice.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
In this case, it has the unhappy attribute of accuracy.
ETA: But I do contain multitudes, and I do love me some Whitman, so.
lamh47
@WaterGirl: Oooh wow.
Yeah. I loved the gas mileage on the car, but I def had to put the seat down very low and push back the seat a bit more than most.
w_seattle
@RaflW: Understood. But I still think it’s best described as just politics. Otherwise, we would also need to call it identity politics when unions push for specific rule changes.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: I REALLY wanted to copy the whole article here, but that’s not really fair to the author. I didn’t want to pick and choose parts, because it felt like the author was building to a point, so snippets didn’t seem like the way to go.
So I’m glad you read the whole thing. Totally worth it, I think.
Chris Johnson
@eclare: Heh! You’d think so. You’ve got it slightly backwards, things more turned around for me when I quit drugs and drinking which were kind of my only solace.
Not really survival instinct, though I appreciate the nice words. More like… and I commend this to other mean white people who are constantly upset, frustrated and unsatisfied… instinct for finding things that are worthwhile, and willingness to commit to those things.
I was just reading up on John Brown again. My mom, who was amazingly mean and judgemental in usually a polite way, absolutely loved John Brown and what he stood for, in part because her mother was stubbornly racist. John Brown was radicalized after the murder of yet another white abolitionist, Elijah Parish Lovejoy, by a racist white mob.
Brown publicly vowed after the incident: “Here, before God, in the presence of these witnesses, from this time, I consecrate my life to the destruction of slavery!”
He meant it. That’s the kind of white guy I can relate to. Brown knew right from wrong and it didn’t matter that all of society was against him. And it wasn’t a survival instinct for him either. It was identifying what justice was… and rightly using his white savagery for good.
Geminid
@Chris Johnson: This reminds me of an interesting Finnish fact: the original Chuds were a Finnic people who played a role in Baltic politics around 1100 BCE.
Just sayin’.
WereBear
@No One You Know: That’s an excellent point.
Another Scott
@lamh47: I’ve mentioned before that I’ve got a 2023 Kia Niro EX Touring PHEV. I like it a lot. I’m not especially tall, so I can’t really say much on that score, but it may be worth checking out.
Note that it’s not available in 4WD if that is a concern.
My J has a 2015 Prius C that she bought used last year that she absolutely loves (very easy to park, etc), but one sits pretty low in it.
HTH a little! Good luck!
Cheers,
Scott.
Starfish
Some of the identities that people were organizing around were fun ones like Swifties for Kamala and Cat Ladies for Kamala Harris.
trollhattan
@lamh47: Sorry about that.
Not a Prius fan, like operating a digital stove, but they are tough. My MIL survived not one but two highway accidents, walking away from totaled cars both time without a scratch, and she was in her 80s so bones like saltines.
All respect.
New ones I see no longer look like dustbusters with wheels but have sleek, modernist style. A welcome change.
Anyhoo, IIUC they can get 60 mpg and that’s nice in California. Just need the neighbors to leave it alone.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh47:
If we all yell “Lock him up, lock him up,” will the authorities accurately interpret that as “Put this dude in a padded cell STAT!”? Because Jeez Louise.
la caterina
@Princess: White people need to do a large part of their anti-racist work among white people. That was an important part of the white women’s call. White women getting off our asses, on our own, without needing BIPOC people to motivate us to support VP Harris.
NeenerNeener
@lamh47: Was your Hyundai one of the older models that could be stolen by a nine year old with a thumb drive? If so then you want to stay away from the used Kia/Hyundai SUVs that start with keys. My 2018 Kia Niro (key fob start) has been great but I wish it sat up higher because of the pressure on my lower back. I just can’t justify trading it in right now on a hybrid CRV, RAV4 or Tuscon because I don’t want a car payment.
lamh47
@WaterGirl: The Black Women for Harris call was actually organzied by a group called Win With Black Women and they’ve actually been doing these sort of calls long before Biden stepped.
After Biden step aside, the group put together a call within 24hrs that would maybe have 1000 people and ended up with 44,000 Black women on that call.
The balls started rolling from there.
lamh47
@Splitting Image: who knows…
dafuq is wrong with that dude…
Baud
@lamh47:
That’s amazing.
lamh47
@WaterGirl: true, I’m having 3 seperate convos right now…LOL.
Identity groups
Cars
Dead Bear cubs (weirded topic by far!)
AND I’m watching Olympic coverage replays…LOL
WereBear
@RaflW: Isn’t it a uniquely American faith? Seem to remember it was about Unity for all.
RaflW
@Another Scott: I just finished a 10 day rental of a Dodge Hornet PHEV. It was a nice pick from a row of otherwise std. small SUVs.
Managed about 39.5 effective MPG as a hybrid, while never getting the Plug-In part to work (tried twice and then gave up). My normal 2015 Outback (which is more spacious) does about 30 or even 28 MPG in similar CO Rockies driving (to give an idea of my relative care with driving/not a lead-foot).
But the Stellantis build quality, a weirdly (IMO) over-revving use of the gas engine, and said charger issues combined with a roughly $45K sticker makes me say, nope!
Thanks for the trial run, rentalco., but I’m waiting for when we need to replace our Outback and aiming for a Toyota RAV4 PHEV in a couple years.
Another Scott
@trollhattan: The newest Prius is long. Very long. 7″ longer than my Niro (181″ vs 174″). It’s one of the reasons why we didn’t consider getting one to replace J’s 2000 Corolla (and got the 2015 Prius C instead). The other reason is that when we were looking they were going for $3k over sticker ($5k over for the Prius Prime, if you could find one). :-/
J thinks the Niro is too big as it is (and I often wish it were narrower).
Having choices is good, but it’s frustrating that it’s still too hard to find decent small-ish vehicles!
Cheers,
Scott.
Geminid
@Geminid: Correction: the Finnic Chuds were a force around 1100 C.E., not 1100 B.C.E. Historians sometime refer to this tribe as the OG Chuds (Old Gangsta Chuds) to distinguish them from their modern namesakes.
MisterForkbeard
@Belafon: Interestingly, as a (fairly) successful white man, I’ve made a similar point to women in the same profession as me. Some of them agree – white male privilege helps. Others have pushed back quite a bit, which is interesting.
One of those is my boss, who’s a minority woman. Picking her brain on sexism has been fascinating, let me tell you.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh47:
And he’s still … y’know, given that he’s 90 years old FFS … kinda heart-throbby.
lamh47
@NeenerNeener: Yup…it was 2015.
Some kid tried to steal it before in NOLA. busted the passenger back windon and gutted the steering wheel. But it was obvious they were amateurs cause sheriff’s officer said they almost had it.
Got it repaired a couple of months before I moved to Cali AND got the software update.
The folks who stole it here were pros. You could tell…there was no glass anywhere.
WereBear
@WaterGirl: It was great.
KrackenJack
@lamh47: A very tall friend of mine who is very good at research has settled on a Kia Sportage. Finding one without a sunroof and without ridiculous dealer markups has been a challenge, though.
Jeffg166
@WaterGirl: Being alive is a sin and you are going to hell so go out with style.
Steve LaBonne
@Chris Johnson: John Brown spent a considerable portion of his life in Summit County, Ohio not far from where I live. There’s a museum in one of the houses he lived in.
KenK
@Baud: which is why I am loud/proud Democrat. have been since 1972.
yes, the ‘light is composed of many colors” applies to politics/society as well as physics, there is a sidenote, I think. Under times of stress, various subgroups will form to support a cause that benefits them all. I think it’s easier to create support for a common cause if you work within your subgroup.
NeenerNeener
@lamh47:
So, teenagers got it then. No broken glass, but the car was still totaled.
I was sitting in a Kia dealership back in 2022 waiting for them to finish the routine maintenance on my Niro and there were two women sitting next to me. One of them was telling the other one that her car was stolen out of her driveway and she didn’t even notice it was missing until she saw it wrecked on a tow truck on the 6 pm news.
WereBear
John Brown’s body is buried on his farm in Lake Placid, NY. Lovely museum, with hiking paths.
Freedom conferences held there, anti-slavery, labor unions, and the like.
SeattleDem
In addition to the 45+ mpg, one of the things I like best about hybrids is the low cost of maintenance. My 2008 Prius with 190,000 miles is still in fine shape and has had no maintenance other than oil changes and new tires. My son’s 2010 Lexus SUV is built on the same frame and battery pack, but he has had problems with the suspension. Maybe because I stick to paved roads and his has been offroad a bit. I definitely prefer my new EV, probably because it has lots of improved technology.
KenK
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: and, Native American folk, as well.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@KenK: This is so.
different-church-lady
@Jay: I dunno, my Honda Fit is six years old and I’ve barely put any money into it so far.
Starfish
@lamh47: I thought there was some flavor of Prius with valuable catalytic converters, and catalytic converter thefts were high for them.
phdesmond
a Google search for “kamalanomenon” shows continued growth:
About 69,300 results
12.01 AM Eastern, Aug. 3
About 86,700 results
11.14 am Eastern, Aug. 3
About 115,000 results
11.19 am Eastern, Aug. 4
i checked out a rival, “Kamalapalooza”:
About 1,450 results
11 am Aug 4
no contest.
lamh47
@SiubhanDuinne: RIGHT!!! I’ve loved him since the Thornbirds!
lamh47
@NeenerNeener: Oh…I didn’t know it was missing until I got a call from Alameda PD and they left a voicemail cause my car plates were recorded as a getawa card after somone robbed a Ross’!
If not for that call, I never would have known my car was stolen. smh
Jay
https://newstracs.com/chart-and-overview-of-key-links-for-jd-vance-with-thiel-mercer-rockbridge/2024/07/29/
NeenerNeener
@lamh47: Yikes!
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Jay: The benefit to being cartoonishly villainous is that no one will believe it’s real.
Martin
There has absolutely been backlash from the right about this. Particularly the seeming hypocrisy of white groups, which they could never get away with. I think it’s important however, to note that it’s white groups organizing not to advance white interests but to advance a black woman.
That said, I was on both the white women and white dudes calls and they were both pretty explicit about why voting for a black woman was in the interest of white women and white men. They were both reaffirming the solidarity of labeling ourselves in these ways and the value of protecting the self interest of the group. There wasn’t a lot of rejecting the idea that white women should have different interests from black women, it was more ‘we need to align with black women because we have this shared interest as women’ and not so much ‘we should care about the struggles of black people’.
The white dudes seemed to leverage the cultural role that a lot of us have internalized as the caretakers of our families, and if you care about your wives and daughters voting for the black woman advances your interests (to take a less charitable read). It wasn’t exactly a refutation of patriarchy in American society, more a leveraging of one aspect of it in opposition of another aspect of it.
It’s all in service of a goal. They were good, it’s a start, we can get better as we go.
But it’s interesting seeing it through the visions that we project outward. Democrats express an egalitarian society, and then struggle to implement that even internally (see what the Daily Show identifies as ‘Kamala’s White Boy Veepstakes’). Republicans express a hierarchical society and point to the affinity groups as proof that even the people trying the hardest will fall back in to these groups with their implied hierarchy, and that most Democrats aren’t even aware of the contradiction – in the end we’re just looking out for our own interests within the social constructs that culture has established, which is what the GOP keeps saying in plain language.
We gotta keep working at this.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@lamh47: I am all in for Honda, myself. I’m on my 3rd CR-V (current one is a hybrid). I’ve found Hondas to be well built, intelligently designed cars that last a long time. They have a new EV if that’s what you are looking for.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@lamh47: oh, yeah, truth. I got a rental sedan on a trip and had to reject the first car because it was too low. I love my Honda CR-V SUV. As I get older, the knees get crankier.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
“Dougie, when are ya gonna call?”
The sincere love they all have for each other and for Kamala was a delight to see. The lack of warmth among Republican families, especially THAT family, is one of the weirdest of the many weird things.
Leto
@different-church-lady: Avalune’s 2016 Fit has been rock solid. I bought an Accord Hybrid last year and I love it. 41mpg so far, more leg room than we know what to do with, plenty of trunk space, easy to maneuver … haven’t seen any build quality issues so far. All the panels are aligned, nothing rattles, just another solid Honda. We’ve had a Honda in the family since 2007, so nothing out of usual so far.
SuzieC
I’m doing Cat Ladies for Kamala call at 7.
Kent
Everyone has their own identity.
As a middle aged white guy I think I am lucky that race and gender aren’t my default identity in contrast to Blacks, women, Asians, Hispanics, etc. for whom their race and gender becomes a default by which the outside world identifies them.
So for me, I identify primarily as a teacher, as a biologist, as a father, as an environmentalist, as a sailor, and as a cyclist. And I do understand that it is a luxury and privilege that I can do so and I don’t get pigeonholed by race and gender.
I actually don’t tend to feel some sort of “white guy” identity because I really don’t identify with the majority of white men in this country.
Baud
@SuzieC:
The pinnacle of identity politics.
Suzanne
I think a lot of white women used to think that the men in their lives respected them, as equals, and have woken up to a reality that a fair amount of men “would be tyrants if they could” to them. I think there’s been a shift in thinking.
phdesmond
@phdesmond:
the Boolean search for “JD Vance” “weird”:
About 30,100,000 results
Aug. 3.
bobbing in the big water
Scout211
Is anyone surprised that Trump can be bought?
Not only did he imply that to a rally audience, but he also said the quiet parts out loud (that he changed his policy positions when the price was right).
Jay
@different-church-lady:
YMMV, my friend has issues with the fit and finish, but then, he only buy’s Civic’s, and lightly used ones. He got 17 years out of his first Civic, (used) and is currently getting about 5 years out of the newer Civics.
All our Toyota’s have been 80’s, 90’s and 2000 and I have few complaints, more about Toyota Service.
WaterGirl
@Suzanne: I think maybe it’s been made more clear to the women that were already voting Democratic. I’m not at all sure that Republican women are aware of any such thing.
SuzieC
@Baud: Yes, but SOOO Balloon Juice.
eclare
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan):
I love my CRV. It’s older, so an ICE, but for my next car I’ll def look at a hybrid CRV.
I am only 5’1″, but the driver’s seat lets you raise or lower it so it might be ok for someone tall.
Suzanne
@Kent:
I find it interesting that you say that.
I hate-read Richard Hanania on Xhitter, and he actually aid something interesting and insightful about these Zoom calls. He has been sort of banging the drum that white people are now really two groups….. one group with a more “functional” mindset (more educated, willing to move for work, not bothered by differences in people) versus a group we more recognize as MAGA-heavy…..resentful, proudly anti-intellectual, staying in their dying town, etc. He pointed out that the White Dudes for Harris call was almost all the first type of person and that it showed a really positive image of whiteness, that the content of the call wasn’t about beating up on anybody, but instead about being successful and normal and that it is successful and normal to support Kamala. I wonder if it creates a permission structure for the rageaholic weirdos.
WereBear
@Suzanne: I would say they thought they respected them as women, especially “good MAGA women,” who are still non-personned.
And found out that was a lie, too.
Jay
Space Nazi has some hurt coming his way. He has been using the Dead Bird site and his own account to stoke the Nazi riots in Britain.
eclare
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan):
As my dad got older, he said he wanted a car where he could open the door and just fall out. He ended up with a small pickup.
Suzanne
@WaterGirl: Well, that’s what I mean, right? It’s a bit of a smack upside the head to realize that the men in your life don’t genuinely want you to be a free and active agent of your own life. That’s gotta be a mindfuck.
eclare
@SuzieC:
Let us know how it is!
Signed,
Childless cat lady who also has a dog.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Chris Johnson: I love John Brown! As far as I am concerned he was a combination of old Testament prophet and saint. And he looked the part too.
karen marie
@Jay: Trump paid North Korea $2 million for the “care” they had provided Otto Warmbier after North Korea returned him to the US in a coma.
Trump can get stuffed.
David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch
I’m doing the Trekies for Kamala call
VFX Lurker
“Argh” about your car getting stolen. That just stinks.
I bought a manufacturer-certified used 2002 Toyota Prius in 2007 with 38,000 miles on it. I’m up to 192,000 miles on it. For the last seventeen years, it has been my only car.
I like it. It has needed major repairs in the last six years. I had to replace the big battery in 2018 for $3000 (parts + specialized labor). I also had to spend about a thousand dollars on A/C replacement parts in 2019. Each time, I told myself, “This is way cheaper than getting a new car.”
I still like the car. The regenerative braking means the “regular” brakes last forever on this car. It’s a good little car. When the time comes to replace it, I’d like to skip over the plug-in hybrid tech and go straight to a small electric car.
If I had to replace it right now, I’d probably choose the plug-in Prius Prime. If I trusted my city’s EV infrastructure, I’d track down a manufacturer-certified used 2023 Chevy Bolt. I prefer small cars.
Wishing you good luck in your replacement car search.
EDIT – I just read further down that you prefer mid-sized SUVs. Please disregard my personal preferences and go with the great choices folks are recommending upthread.
moonbat
Forgive me if someone has already said this as I haven’t read the entire thread.
This may be the first time that the online meet-ups by different identities have been done (especially on the scale that the Harris campaign has achieved), but has everyone forgotten the Obama 2008 campaign when you could get t-shirts and bumper stickers and all sorts of campaign paraphernalia according to your specific identity? I even have an Anthropologists for Obama bumper sticker.
I do think though that the white men and white women identifying groups is a new thing and a welcome one for Dems and a disturbing one for Republicans because the GOP has always assumed to have those demographics mostly sewed up. I think that’s why Musk freaked out when the White Dudes for Harris group got together and, by god, had so many cool white dudes participating! We can’t give other sanity-curious white men permission to leave the fold!
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Suzanne: These calls seem less like something to separate us and more of a useful exercise in intersectionality where each group looks at what they can do toward a common end with all groups.
It can be done if you aren’t focused on maintaining privilege or the historical image of your group above all else.
schrodingers_cat
@lamh47: I have a Prius wagon. Toyota doesn’t make it anymore. It has better rear view visibility than the regular Prius. I like it. A lot.
Suzanne
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I agree.
As with all things, context and intent matter.
WereBear
@Suzanne: To me, it’s more they are told that they stay in their box and do all the things they are told. Then their man will love them and the family.
They have all the responsibility and none of the power.
But now they are making it clear that inadequate incubators can just die.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Suzanne: I’m suddenly reminded of my former brother-in-law who, after I advocated for nuance, said “nuance, you mean lying?”
peter
@Kent: This is very well said (and not just because the things you identify as match almost exactly the things I identify as). It is a luxury. In my experience with Republican-leaning neighbors and co-workers, their enormous sense of entitlement and chronic state of grievance blinds them to that fact. I guess they’re happy to identify as butthurt assholes.
yellowdog
@kindness: As Senator Bulworth said: Everybody should f*ck everybody else til we’re all the same color.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@yellowdog: Give it time…
WereBear
@peter: Because being a butthurt asshole means never having to say you’re sorry.
WaterGirl
@eclare: I also love my CRV. Mine is way old. 2005. Love it.
WaterGirl
@Suzanne: Agree, that would be. But I don’t think those types of women are having increased awareness of that at all.
lamh47
@VFX Lurker: No worries…I appreciate the info about your Prius.
It’s not a car I ever thought about owning, but I have seen so many since moving to Cali I thought I’d at least see what all the fuss was about!
Kayla Rudbek
@lamh47: yes, I have a Prius and I like the gas mileage and how much room it has inside. However it’s a 2004 model and it didn’t pass Virginia safety inspection this year. Mr. Rudbek is tinkering with it to see if he can get it to pass inspection; it has dashboard issues so the speedometer/odometer would cut out after a rainstorm, and now that he soldered some things to fix the taillights, the speedometer/odometer aren’t working at all. It’s currently worth more as salvage than the county tax assessment says. My mom is campaigning for us selling it to the salvage yard and replacing it (although we don’t really need two cars at this point).
Kent
In my own case it is more an issue of real life experience.
I’ve been in a lot of real life white male groupings over the years and just tend not fit in.
When I was younger I spent a couple of years working as a observer biologist on commercial fishing boats in Alaska and so have been around lots of all white male fishing crews and blue collar bars in Alaska full of white male fishermen.
Later as a fishery biology for NOAA I spent lots of my life in meetings with fishermen and fishing industry lobbyists and in hotel bars and restaurants and receptions after meetings. More white guys I had to fake it with to get along.
Still later as a dad and soccer coach in Texas I spent lots of time with other white male Texas sports dads when my daughter was on travel soccer teams, trying to fake caring about their obsessions and such. Listening to all their stories of HS sports glory or college sports glory.
My own extended family is a bunch of rural MAGA folks who farm, drive trucks, work in construction, as prison guards, etc. in states like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Oregon. I’ve long since tired of them. Politics aside, I’m still the weird one who commutes to work on bike rather than F250, doesn’t own 50 guns, and who teaches school rather than holding down a “real job”.
So as a straight white guy I’ve spent a lot of my life around groups of white men without much affinity at all.
Baud
100m final was wild.
Kent
@Baud: no spoilers please. I’m still catching up.
Leto
@Baud: yes it was
karen marie
@CaseyL: Have you asked her why she thinks that? Is she unaware that Republicans have been attacking and othering groups of Americans for years on the basis of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc.?
Americans are not “resegregating,” Republicans are trying to segregate people who are not white Christians, because – according to them – white Christians are the only “real Americans.”
People have had enough and are standing up proudly as who they are. That’s not “segregation,” that’s owning their place against a stream of ugly accusations that they have no place.
Gvg
I think context matters. If you organize a white group for a racist candidate you are stating you are racist and people will judge you that way, depending on if they approve or disapprove of racism.
if you organize a white woman or men for a candidate who is running against a racist who has made multiple comments that are horrible, and passed multiple laws that attack various minorities, then you are sending a message saying not everyone in the majority demographic is an unrepentant racist AND by doing after the black women for zoom you are also saying you approve and think it’s great that black women had their own call to organize. You are also trying to lead more of your own demographic into making the better choice.
Everyone is approving of the other “people’s” in our coalition.
Context is also that Trump has uniquely even for a Republican, managed to attack and make enemies of more subsets of humans than are easily counted, and we are organizing now.
Orange is the New Red
@Starfish: We saw Deadheads for Kamala is coming up soon.
karen marie
@lamh47: omfg.
Kent
@karen marie: Americans are segregating on the basis of politics and class. Not so much by race.
There have been endless books and articles written in recent years about the “great sorting”
rekoob
@lamh47: As others have mentioned, both the Honda CR-V and the Toyota RAV4 are available as hybrids. Honda has a larger, fully-electric SUV, the Prologue, which is based on the Chevrolet Blazer EV that was featured in the Barbie movie briefly.
Toyota has the stronger reputation for hybrids. The RAV4 Prime (a Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle) may be worth considering. Honda has better interiors and ergonomics, I’d say.
Suzanne
@WaterGirl: I am also a big CR-V fan. I’m on my second. I bought the first in 2004, and it was about five years old at the time. I drove it for eleven more years, and it started having expensive problems. Broke down on the side of the I-17 in a Phoenix summer. Went test-driving all the similar cars on the market in 2015….. and then I drove the current CR-V and just wanted that one. I got a different color.
Kayla Rudbek
@Starfish: yes, the older ones like mine had a lot more platinum in them, so we were victims of catalytic converter theft on the Prius. The aftermarket replacements have less platinum in them so aren’t targeted. However the aftermarket replacement got dinged on the state safety inspection (needs to be attached a bit better, that would fix that problem).
Martin
Same. Here in melting pot southern California one of my least favorite things was dealing with contractors after we bought a house. Invariably it’s a middle age white guy, and we agree to hire him and halfway through the job Ms Martin is out of the room and he casually drops an n bomb or something comparably disgusting on me. Always when it’s just two white guys in the room and nobody can hear. And I’d say half or so of all of the contractors we hired would do this over a period of 15 years. My roof is half torn up, he’s down for a water break, drops that shit, and now I have to throw him off my property and figure out what the fuck to do with a torn up roof. When I found a house painter that was Korean, spoke no English but spoke Spanish, and his foreman spoke English and Spanish and could translate I was so fucking happy because I knew that shit couldn’t possibly happen. I still hire that guy.
But I dreaded white male contractors so much that to this day I get anxious if I’m alone with a white guy that I don’t know outside of settings where I know that shit won’t happen. And the thing is, they’d never say it with my wife around, they’d probably never say it to a person of color – but I was their personal safe space to go full klan.
I was so excited when I got a recommendation for a solar installer owned by a Persian woman, because I knew I could relax around them for a change.
I have friend groups who are mostly white guys, we are all proud Democrats, there’s no guy code or that bullshit. We ask each other for recommendations on yogurt and encourage each other to get prostate exams and it’s great.
I haven’t had one of those encounters with a contractor since probably about 2016. I don’t know if they calmed down, got the message, died, can get it out of their system openly now with Trump, or what. But they still make me anxious.
Trivia Man
Conservative Reddit is predictably outraged by the affinity groups. Any POC is “of course, ‘they’ always stop co together.”
And the white men invitation was paired with a picture of a klan rally (old black &white photo of course). “Just a regular meeting of democrats.”
The Klan analogy is a favorite deflection and defense to prove republicans arent racist. Question: who foes the Klan explicitly and enthusiastically support today? That was a stain on the party no doubt. But IMHO LBJ erased that stain. (Sorry, Raven, he did accomplish some good things.)
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@eclare: My only problem with the CR-V hybrid is that in order to get room for the battery, they eliminated the spare tire. Sigh. That could be a deal breaker for some. Otherwise, pretty perfect, except it is not a plug-in. Honda seems committed to quality, so have been slow to roll out modifications to the CR-V. The AWD may be an issue too.
Orange is the New Red
Kayla Rudbek
@different-church-lady: my Honda Fit is about 12 years old, probably needs a replacement tire rim (we hit a bad pothole a few years back, it’s had a slow leak ever since). And some trouble with one of the front windshield wipers suddenly coming off. Other than that it’s a good car, fits a lot more inside than you think (tandem bike with the wheels off fits inside).
Trivia Man
@Orange is the New Red: Bound to cover just a little more ground.
Loved the pic of Nancy Smash with a big VOTE over a Stealie hanging in her office
Trivia Man
@Trivia Man: We hen i was running for office i got to ask Tipper favorite Dead she ng and pass on a bootleg show. Also had a quick conversation with their daughter at another event and gave her one also.
karen marie
@Chris Johnson: I follow “SmithsonianRoulette” on Mastodon and one of my favorite activities is to look up the creators and subjects of the photographs/paintings. Yesterday a portrait of a man named Theodore Parker came up, photographed by Leopold Grozelier. What an interesting thread that was to pull! Parker was a backer of John Brown. Here’s a link to the post beneath which my replies exist so you can access the sites I came up with because they’re all interesting, imo.
Roberto el oso
To echo many others, I think showing off the genuine diversity in the Party in this very practical, and very specific way is truly genius. I’m not sure if it could have been pulled off in the same way if there was a candidate other than Kamala Harris in the top slot (it’s interesting to speculate). Far from being a divisive tactic I think it is reflective of how Dems very often do go about approaching things: as allies, with a common goal but very valid concerns specific to our identities as individuals.
I’m happy to see it and happy to play my part.
Geminid
@Trivia Man: I hear Nancy Pelosi will be featured on 60 Minutes tonight. CBS Radio News played an excerpt today of Leslie Stahl’s interview with the former Speaker.
Matt McIrvin
@kindness: yes, it will. Because of the complicated genetics of skin color, the very palest or darkest tones might be rare but there will still be a lot of variation. Look at Indians or African-Americans today.
Steve LaBonne
@Martin: There’s a Progress Pride flag flying from one end of our porch (a US flag from the other because I want the MAGAs to know they don’t own it) and BLM, Reproductive Rights Are Human Rights, and Hate Has No Home Here signs in front of the house. Any contractor who does work for us knows who they’re dealing with. Nobody has said a word. Our neighbors across the street have a Let’s Go Brandon flag (still there) and a black US flag. Not so much Great Sort where I live.
Steve LaBonne
@karen marie: Parker was a Unitarian minister and abolitionist (ostracized by most Boston Unitarian congregations as a result) and the actual author of the “moral arc of the universe bends toward justice” quote.
Martin
@Kent: Interesting. In my case I’m an only child raised mostly by my mom. My dad was also raised by a single mom (my grandfather was institutionalized) and was the oldest child and took over as a co-parent for his younger siblings (my grandmother was a nurse, usually night shift, who developed and recovered from a drinking problem while they were growing up.)
So my dad didn’t have a ‘male culture’ role model dad calling him a sissy or whatever. And as a dad to me, I never saw any of that culture myself. I was taught to be respectful to people, to take care of others, all that. The extent of gender stereotyping I got at home was that it was my job to work hard and put my family’s needs ahead of my own. That was it. There was no ‘real men play football’ or whatever – ever. I also grew up in a diverse place. My moms parents were quite racist but my parents made it clear to them if they heard me recounting something racist that they said, that’d be the end of the visits, so I didn’t know they were racist until I was married. They understood the assignment. My dad policed that very strongly because what I also didn’t learn until I was married was that I had a black cousin who my aunt adopted out, and that was the reason the family decamped for California.
So between those things, I too didn’t get along with the majority of the other kids. A lot more of my friends were girls than guys because the guys tended to be edgier in ways I wasn’t comfortable with and the girls were more relatable to me. I got picked on a lot for that, but then I got to kiss girls more often, so I think it was worth it.
Sister Golden Bear
@Belafon: @MisterForkbeard:
John Scalzi’s fantastic essay, “Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting,” used computer gaming as an analogy.
Naturally the fanbois freaked out, and Scalzi wrote two follow-up essays, as well as a reflection on it ten years later. All of them are worth reading.
Denali5
@lamh47: I love my hybrid Prius.
Martin
@Steve LaBonne: Yeah, I didn’t think to fly a flag or give some other indication back then. There was a point in there it turned into a little social experiment with me before I realized it was affecting my mental health. It was such a strange phenomenon.
Trivia Man
@Roberto el oso: if it was JUST “POC (any gender) for Harris” and stopped there, it could be a valid criticism. The reason it hasn’t been ‘acceptable’ till now, presumably, is that nearly all candidates were white. “Whites for xyz” isn’t anything to brag about. As I have red before, “‘White Man’ has been the default assumption for ‘human’ in America until now. If it nothing is explicitly stated, it is assumed ‘White Man’.”
I agree that having ALL groups is a strength. Yes, I ALSO support her for MY reasons.
Aimai
@WaterGirl: you are so sweet to remember me! Just spent yesterday at the ER with my 92 year old mother—all serene now—but I thought a lot about all my balloon juice peeps and how many people post from the hospital while looking after parents, children, or other loved ones.
Ksmiami
@Baud: because Trump and the MAGA morons represent an existential threat to all of us esp non white, non gender normative ppl. We’ll go back to arguing over minor shit once we win in November.
Martin
@Sister Golden Bear: Worth observing that Scalzi didn’t get the treatment that Anita Sarkeesian did in response to this. Not too far apart time-wise.
japa21
@Aimai: I think most of us here remember you. Just good to see you and I hope you’ll be around more. Hope your mother is doing well. Make sure you take care of yourself, as well.
Kineslaw
The various affinity groups for Harris are taking responsibility for helping her get elected. White dudes, telling other white dudes, they share responsibility as white dudes to elect Harris is a new thing.
It’s that sense of responsibility that has prevented the backlash. These groups are an embodiment of the phrase, “we are the ones we’ve been waiting for”.
Sister Golden Bear
@Chris Johnson:
Both things can be true. And are.
Likewise, cis het men* can be terrifying** but LGB-and-especially-T folks aren’t wrong in thinking that cis het men uniquely out of us.
*Emergency Not All (stolen from Stonekettle)
____________________
…not all…
_____________________
Break glass and insert “not all” into anywhere I’ve used a general label to generally describe a general group, sex, ideology, religion, or population.
**Having lived undercover as “cis het man,” I’ve seen firsthand how terrifying cis-het men can be to each other (and of course to women).
DougL
@Chris Johnson: wow what a post at #48. As an old white dude I felt seen. And that bit about being a fierce ally is exactly how I feel. Thanks for the very thoughtful post.
karen marie
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: So you too saw the video of Trump ignoring Tiffany when she tried to give him a kiss as she walked past him to her seat at the convention?
BR
Speaking of identity, folks who like to make conservatives’ furious should share this op-ed from Vance from 2017 where he praises Obama as a role model:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/opinion/barack-obama-and-me.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20170102121026/https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/opinion/barack-obama-and-me.html
Jackie
Random headlines today:
And…
Yup, TCFG loves EV’s and Musk is potentially a criminal.
Sister Golden Bear
@Princess: @mvr:
When the first White Women for Harris was being organized I saw a lot of skepticism on Black Twitter for the reasons you’ve mentioned. But that went away after Black folks sat in, and saw white women 1) they were taking their lead from the Black Women for Harris even, 2) talking about how white women hadn’t always been great allies, 3) they needed to step up, and 4) as white women they were able to have conversions with other white women in ways that Black women couldn’t — and they needed to actively step up and do so. Reports were the that White Dudes event was similar.
And that I think is the key.
As a queer trans woman, too often I’ve seen cis-het allies, end up centering themselves rather than the folks they said they’re supporting (usually unconsciously, but it still ends up marginalizing us). So yeah, I’d been a little skeptical. But this seems different. That folks are genuinely working from a place of allies in coalition.
SuzieC
OK, this will probably be lost in a dead thread but I was asked. I will repost if there is an open thread later.
Cat Ladies for Kamala 7 pm (E) 8-4-24.
#CLAWSOUT2024.
Motto: we’re here with our claws out. We’re not going back to the alleys.
Technical difficulties. They expected about 300. They got about 11,300.
When I left just now we had raised $256,000.
message to JD Vance: we’re not miserable.
further comment: Trump’s ear was tipped and he’s going back into the feral community.
Tech
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Jackie: “As president, all my policies will be determined by who gives me the most money. Which is not bribery by the way, according to our very fine and not corrupt Supreme Court.”
Sister Golden Bear
@KrackenJack:
@la caterina:
Both messages were a major reason that these felt different. It wasn’t trying to speak over other minority folks, rather it was the need for white men to use their voices — and their privilege — to support and amplify.
karen marie
@Kent: Gee, can’t imagine why.
karen marie
@Steve LaBonne: I skim-read the article I posted to Mastodon. I missed, however, that he’s the “arc of the universe” guy. Very nice!
He was a bit wordier than MLKJr. Hahaha.
Sister Golden Bear
@SeattleDem: Ironically, a big reason I avoided buying a hybrid a few years ago is that I wrongly assumed that dual technologies were risking extra maintenance problems. But it turns out they’re highly reliable.
Admittedly, my Tesla has had almost no maintenance costs — it’s only been wipers, tire rotation, an air filter every two years, and more frequent tire replacements due to the extra weight from the battery.
But given I like to roadtrip in retrospect a hybrid would’ve been more practical, since I’m a single-car household. Unfortunately there weren’t nearly as many choices, hybrid or EV, as there are now.
Jackie
@Scout211: TCFG is the most chronically for sale/buyable person in the world.🤦🏼♀️
Jay
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/04/elon-musk-pac-investigated-michigan.html
LAC
@WaterGirl: appreciated hearing this. Beats “Oh, my skin crawled, but I said nothing to some racist because it would inconvenience me” rationalizing. Thank you!!
Starfish
Is Mark Kelly telling us that he is the chosen one? I want to play the VP speculation game on choosing day!
https://x.com/CaptMarkKelly/status/1820231332284490222
Jackie
@Gvg: I’m waiting for “Nazi’s and QAnon, Moms for Liberty, etc” for TCFG zooms to start up.
TCFG has to be jealous and furious about the mega-enthusiasm $$$ Kamala’s generating!
Ramona
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Yup! And to take away land from the so-called “red” man…
frosty
@lamh47: I like Mazdas. My 2016 Mazda 3 is a gas engine, not EV or hybrid. Gets 40mpg on the interstate, mid-30s in mixed driving. Had a Miata for 23 years until it got totaled.
Starfish
@Orange is the New Red: I expect everyone from my town to be at this one.
UncleEbeneezer
@Sister Golden Bear: The WhiteDudesForHarris call was surprisingly good about never slipping into White Saviorism/Fuckery™. It was much more a vibe of “we’ve been collectively, historically terrible and it’s time for us to step up like everyone else.” I was impressed.
Jackie
😂😂😂
Ramona
@Chris Johnson: I saw Ta Nehisi Coates talking about this at what I seem to recall was a book reading. My memory is fuzzy but I think he mentioned how cruel European serfdom in the 14th century was. He was making the point that the brutality visited on the African-American enslaved came out of the brutality Europeans wreaked upon themselves.
As an East Indian contemplating how the British took over India with very little warfare, I have often thought that European colonization of Asia and Africa happened because the over-civilized peoples of Africa and Asia thought they were dealing with civilized people rather than bullies whose behavior was unconstrained by any of the then current norms of civilization. I’m no historian though so I don’t know how to go about investigating this.
Starfish
@Jackie: What if the candidates competed in a cooking competition? Harris would win, but do you think Trump would know anything about how steaks are cooked at all? Like would he even know how to turn on a stove?
Jackie
@Starfish: I couldn’t deal with “well done aka burnt” steak smothered in ketchup! 🤢🤮
wjca
I seem to recall something similar in a previous thread (no clue which one). My bet remains that he has no clue how to turn on a stove. I expect his food prep experience is limited to 1) opening a soda can (probably rusty, but still experience), 2) opening boxes and other simple snack containers, 3) ordering out.
VFX Lurker
Check those cars for stickers! Years ago, the Prius was one of the few cars that qualified for single-occupancy carpool lane stickers. Folks bought the cars just to use the carpool lanes when driving solo.
Plus, in 2007, gas went to $5/gallon and Californians paid above retail price for fuel-efficient hybrid cars. A used Prius back then sold for close to new prices. At the time, I think the Prius was the only real hybrid game in town. Honda made a two-seater “Insight” hybrid with an aluminum body, but the Prius was more practical.
Buyers have way more choices in fuel-efficient hybrid cars now. The Prius just had a head start!
DEBG
@lamh47: That’s fantastic. I’ve just finished watching Hulu’s Shogun, and now I’m watching the one from 1980, with Richard Chamberlain. Very different takes on the novel, but both are strong.
Kent
The British were absolute geniuses at both divide and conquer and co-opting local elites. They didn’t need enormous armies to conquer half the globe because they essentially paid local elites in wealth, status, and power, to do it for them.
Pi
@kindness: Rapid international travel is breaking down the barriers caused by unfamiliarity. There is backlash as there always is to change but people are starting to figure out that all humans are…human.