Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

It’s not hopeless, and we’re not helpless.

I’m more Christian than these people and I’m an atheist.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

Another missed opportunity for Jamie Dimon to just shut the fuck up.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

In short, I come down firmly on all sides of the issue.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

Republican also-rans: four mules fighting over a turnip.

He really is that stupid.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Monday Morning Open Thread: Tenterhooks

Monday Morning Open Thread: Tenterhooks

by | 228 Comments

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We’re supposed to get Harris’ VP pick today, and I have to admit I’m with the Blogfather on this one…

And yet:

Elsewhere…

Calling U.S. citizens abroad who want to volunteer to get Kamala Harris and other Dems elected. Go to www.democratsabroad.org/join to help other people living abroad vote. You can go to www.votefromabroad.org to get your own registration and request your ballot without any commitment to Democrats

[image or embed]

— Michele (@ibumichele.bsky.social) Jul 31, 2024 at 1:42 PM


Jason Kander, the guy who almost kept Josh Hawley from becoming a US Senator, wrote this about Kamala Harris & I thought it was worth sharing.

[image or embed]

— DTwyman (@dtwyman.bsky.social) Aug 4, 2024 at 12:26 PM

Reader Interactions

228Comments

  3. 3.

    Baud

    When we fight, we win.

    What about when we complain incessantly on the Internet?

    Asking for a friend.

  4. 4.

    Chris T.

    @Baud: Nope, tenterhooks from “tenters”, which are frames for drying cloth. However “tenters” itself comes from Latin “tendere” (verb, to stretch).

    There’s no doubt that being stretched over tenters will leave you tender, though!

  9. 9.

    Scout211

    Reposted from downstairs:

    Unions are endorsing Kamala Harris.  The latest:

    APNewsThe hospitality workers’ union UNITE HERE has endorsed Vice President Kamala Harris for president, a rejoinder to Republican Donald Trump’s effort to woo restaurant and hotel workers by promising to make their tips tax-free.

    Gwen Mills, the union’s president, said Trump was merely “making a play” for votes while Harris has credibility from having supported unions. She discussed the move with The Associated Press before the union’s announcement of an endorsement.

    The endorsement includes a commitment by the union to have its members knock on more than 3.3 million doors for Harris in swing states that include Pennsylvania, Michigan, Nevada, Arizona and North Carolina.

  10. 10.

    hrprogressive

    I’m 1000% Team Walz now, but really, it seems like every finalist has a lot to offer.

    I’m still voting Harris/Name Here regardless.

    But damn, Walz really seems like he’d tell the normies what they really need to hear.

  11. 11.

    Princess

    Lordy, Trump’s only winning with Harvard-Harris and Rasmussen? Sucks to be him. He’s going to start firing people soon.

  14. 14.

    Hungry Joe

    POSTCARDS UPDATE

    Postcards for Sen. Jon Tester:

    Yesterday — 7

    Running total —15

    Postcards to Swing States (currently on hold) — 166

  16. 16.

    Kay

    The Latino vote polling coming back (maybe!) is really good news. I’m thrilled for her and for us. It starts to put a whole other/additional winning route into focus. Three cheers for young Latino men who are apparently not opposed to voting for a woman. This whole thing has been fun to watch.

  19. 19.

    schrodingers_cat

    When Biden was choosing his VP nominee, the same folks who are now trashing Shapiro and putting coconut emojis in their nyms were calling Kamala a cop, Copmala etc. But Biden didn’t listen to them and chose her. I hope the VP chooses someone who will have her back no matter what.

    I will support her no matter who she picks.

  20. 20.

    Suzanne

    That anecdote from Jason Kander is really fantastic.

    Missouri would have been a better place for his service.

  23. 23.

    rikyrah

    If you know anyone in the Military or Overseas , remind them that they can vote, even if overseas.and your kids can too, as long as they are 18 and have an American passport.

     

    Opening weekend for voting for Overseas voters is the weekend of September 21st

  24. 24.

    Kay

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yes. The Bad Democrats. Them again! Without them everyone would agree on everything the leaders do, without question.

    People have called this Party “herding cats” for 50 years for a reason – we’re not Republicans.

  25. 25.

    BR

    @Suzanne:

    His ad is still burned into my brain. I hope the campaign puts him on the road in the midwest. He’d also do well in Nebraska to get that one electoral vote.

  26. 26.

    The Red Pen

    I’m anticipating being excited about Harris’ VP pick, but I’m also in the camp of people who would vote for her if she chose Joe Lieberman. There were reports that Kelly, Shapiro, and Walz were seen visiting the VP residence over the weekend, so it’s definitely not going to be someone we’ll all hate.

  27. 27.

    Scout211

    CNN is reporting that Kamala Harris’ supporters will be the first to know:

    It was unclear late Sunday after a day of interviews with finalists whether she had made a final decision, people familiar with the search said. The campaign plans to officially announce the choice through an online message to supporters before a rally in Philadelphia on Tuesday, where she’s expected to make her first appearance with her pick. Harris hopes to keep it under wraps “until as close to then as possible,” a person familiar with the search told CNN.

  28. 28.

    Another Scott

    @Suzanne: Kander’s only 43 – he could run again if he chooses.  He can still have a big impact (mentoring, building capacity, etc.) even if he decides not to do that.

    We’ve got a deep bench!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  31. 31.

    Kay

    @BR:

    Yes. I’l hunt it up for you. We had 65/35 in 2020 and she’s at 55, so gaining. Obviously it matters a lot for Arizona and Nevada. Also of course Florida but we didn’t come close in Florida even with 65 nationally so Florida may still be out of reach. Florida is a mystery to me :)

  32. 32.

    Jeffro

    I’m excited to hear the VP pick, no matter who it is!

    Also – it’s quite busy week this week but later in the week, I must tell y’all about the behind-the-scenes House tour that Froette took us on last Friday.  VERY cool stuff!

    She’ll be moving over to the Senate for her fall internship in a couple of weeks.

    Have a happy Monday and GO BLUE!!!

  34. 34.

    narya

    For the “open thread” part of the program: tonight I get to have dinner with old friends–people I first met in about 1981 and whom I haven’t seen in person in a very long time (decades!), but with whom I’ve kept in occasional email/phone contact. That also means a trip to the main public library, as I’m meeting them near that location; the trick will be reminding myself that I have to schlep everything I check out.

  36. 36.

    WaterGirl

    @Scout211: That’s how Obama announced Biden, too.

    Everyone was supposed to get their text at the same time, but of course there were too many to do that, so some people got theirs 2 or 3 hours after the first people got theirs.

    As I recall, the text came at something like 5 am on Saturday.

  37. 37.

    WereBear

    Deeply peeved by “you’ve got another thing coming” because that is meaningless.

    The whole phrase is, “Is that what you think? You’ve got another think coming.”

  38. 38.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: Yes it would, I was so sorry to see him drop out of politics but I understand that one’s mental health and ability to live a good life come first.

  39. 39.

    BR

    @Kay: ​
    I see. Hopefully it’s not currently 55/45 but rather 55 and some undecideds. I saw some polls with Latino subsamples where she’s been up more than +10 head to head.

  40. 40.

    narya

    @Baud: I actually thought I saw that somewhere from some never-Trumper, but no way am I going to spend any time looking for it.

  42. 42.

    Soprano2

    I thought this from TPM was interesting.  I can share because I’m a subscriber. TCFG is facing a different kind of campaign now, and he may not be able to adapt to it. That’s good news for us and Harris for sure.

    Here’s one thing that’s been in the back of my mind for some time and with a greater focus since Joe handed the football off to Kamala. Donald Trump is old. If you look, he’s much older than in 2016 and 2020. People say these kinds of things as part of the rather dismal “who’s older?” scuffling that’s been going back and forth all year between the two candidates. Here though I mean it in a basic descriptive sense. The difference between being 70 and close to 80 is a big one. It happens to everyone.

    Trump doesn’t get held to these standards as much because his raging gives a feeling of focus and edge that Biden lacked. But just in a basic sense, he is not the candidate he was in 2016, not even the one he was in 2020. This was hidden in a way so long as Biden was the nominee and it was hidden or perhaps rendered meaningless as long as Trump was ahead. If your candidate is old but he’s winning … well, whatever. If Joe Biden had spent the last year sitting on a five point lead, the whole campaign, clearly, would have gone quite differently.

    What’s not clear to me is whether Trump has the fight and fluidity left to battle from behind, to run a campaign as an underdog. This obviously assumes some key hypotheticals not yet in evidence. At the moment, poll averages show Kamala Harris with a very small popular vote lead. That likely makes the Electoral College as of this moment if not a tie, per se, than something like a jump ball. Of course, her momentum could dissipate as fast as it built up. Or she could continue on the same trajectory. My gut tells me we’re in a fundamentally changed race. But we don’t have enough evidence yet to operate beyond impressions and hunches.

    My point in writing this is that we haven’t really seen candidate Trump much this year. He’s just been doing a more scattered and dissolute version of his old roadshow — chants, attacks, complaining, you know the routine. I don’t mean that people haven’t focused enough on the race yet or that he’s secluded on Truth Social or other right wing platforms. I mean he’s generally been able to coast on the small but significant lead he’s had for roughly a year. He hasn’t had to shake up the race or deliver in big ways at key moments. Yes it seems like his “Haha! You say you’re Black AND Indian” routine was planned. But that doesn’t mean he was able to pull it off. He also hasn’t had to activate or flip portions of the electorate. Those are things you have to do if you’re not sitting on a lead and especially if you’re behind. We could also mention mixing up names and states and all the rest. But if you’re connecting on the other fronts, stuff like that, even if it may be a sign of age, isn’t going to be a big driver. It’s the ability to deliver in those other ways, to command the stage and shift the trajectory of the race that counts. There are lots of things we’ve seen so far this year — like his convention speech, this Black/Indian rage spasm — that make it very questionable whether he can still do that.

  43. 43.

    Princess

    @Kay: Don’t get me wrong — I think polling is a mess. However, while the top numbers may be off,  trend lines don’t lie.

  44. 44.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Soprano2:

    As many have said, he’s running to stay out of jail.  Or at least prolong the legal battles.  It’s so on-brand for him.

  45. 45.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    So after a year or so of kind of a sabbatical from you jackals (and some doomscrolling on Threads), I plan to be back more, as I’m thrilled with the Harris campaign.

    Plus, my dramatic travel schedule is gonna lighten. Since last August, I’ve done a dive trip in Mexico, seen my oldest daughter in Fort Lauderdale, went to Milan for a few days before doing Carnival in Malta, gone to Melbourne one week and diving in Tahiti the following week, and just got back from a three week extravaganza that included some time in Sydney ahead of a two week dive trip in Fiji. And I am headed to Provence in October, and diving in Cayman in January.

    Hopefully, I won’t have to become an expatriate, cause that’s a lot of flights.

  46. 46.

    Kay

    @BR:

    Now a new poll—apparently the first large-sample poll of Latinos since Harris became presumptive Democratic nominee—provides fresh grounds for that optimism. It finds that Harris holds a nearly 20-point lead over Donald Trump among Hispanics in the battleground states, a surprisingly large expansion of Biden’s ailing support among them—and that her candidacy has room to grow that lead, suggesting she may be putting back in play Sun Belt states that appeared lost under Biden.

     

    I am kind of surprised there was no discussion of strength among Latinos in the VP pick. It’s absolutely important to Democrats and I’m sure it was discussed in the vetting process. I love the blue wall states but the future of the party includes states with large Latino populations – we probably should have factored it in (by “we” I mean the peanut gallery). I didn’t think of it either.

  48. 48.

    Soprano2

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: Oh, he’s running to stay out of jail, full stop. I think for him being a dictator is secondary to that. You know he’s secretly terrified of being in prison. I remember there was a profile of the TCFG campaign by Tim Alberta where they were almost crowing about how easy they thought was going to be to win against Biden. I bet they aren’t doing that today.

  50. 50.

    Kay

    @Princess:

    Oh, poill denialism goes way back in the GOP. This is a familiar rut for them. Biden was 9 ahead for parts of the 2020 race and they were insisting NY would go red.

  52. 52.

    Another Scott

    @Soprano2: Speaking of old…

    Noel Kelly
    @[email protected]
    A long good bye…

    “Fifteen years minus one day between these photos. Taken at the Rhone glacier in Switzerland today.

    Not gonna lie, it made me cry.”

    From @misterduncan at birdland/ @duncan

    https://x.com/misterduncan/status/1820168563350450324

    [ 2 photos ]

    Rhone glacier, 2009.
    ALT
    Rhone glacier, 2024.
    ALT
    Aug 04, 2024, 11:55 PM

    I felt that way returning to see the Crowfoot Glacier in Banff and seeing the big changes in just 10 years or so. :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  53. 53.

    Fake Irishman

    @Kay:

    One thing we also need to keep in mind is that “Hispanics” really aren’t a bloc — different national origins break very differently. Cubans in Florida are the obvious example, but there are others: Puerto Ricans are not Mexican and neither of them are Venezuelan or Honduran or Peruvian.

    Also: a Hispanic family who has roots in Texas since before the Mexican war may have very different politics than one that crossed the border in 2010.

  54. 54.

    Kay

    @BR:

    It’s 55 and undecideds, so better than 55/45. She has room to grow in every single poll. She absolutely upended this race. It’s w/every group now, except perhaps white people over 65. But they’re important too! They’re super reliable voters. We need them too.

  56. 56.

    Suzanne

    @Another Scott: Deep bench, indeed. It’s really impressive.

    And, I will note, despite the fact that some commenters here have chosen to interpret my ardent support for some of our candidates as hatred for others…. I generally am really happy with how our side does a far better job representing a range of opinion. And, most importantly, how most of the team hangs together when it counts. The Conservadems do make me crazy, but I can take an Ativan and get over it.

  58. 58.

    BR

    @Kay: ​

    I think it’s been part of some discussion about Kelly, since he did well among Latino voters in AZ.

  59. 59.

    Soprano2

    I also want to say that I’m loving the positive ads from the Harris campaign and the Harris PACs (I saw one during the Olympics yesterday). People say they’re sick of hateful, negative ads, and I hope that’s true, because her ads are full of fun, joy and positive vibes. All TCFG seems to have is anger and hatred toward people who are different from him. I think many people will be turned off by that.

  65. 65.

    Kay

    @Fake Irishman:

    I do understand that but the Latino movement towards Trump was a comparison from 2020, so the diversity of what is included in “Latino” shouldn’t matter. These poll analysis all use a baseline of 2020 because Biden won solidly in 2020. They’re not a comparison between Harris and “any other person, ever” – we know exactly what a winning coalition looks like because we have 2020.

  73. 73.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    @Baud: 

    I was diving thrice daily to see bull sharks, smaller critters and the most pristine coral I’ve seen in a decade in July, so I missed it…

  82. 82.

    Suzanne

    @Kay: The I-10 corridor is really the future of the country.

    And the Blue Wall is changing, too. Our local rag has been running a bunch of stories about how the rural parts of PA are rapidly aging and depopulating. And Pittsburgh’s population recently started growing again (very small upticks) after years of decline.

  84. 84.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    My thinking the past week has been that all of the short-list VP potentials would be good choices, but each one comes with a cost. Fair or not, that’s got to be one of the factors that Harris and her campaign have to look at. For example, the cost for Kelly is potentially losing the Senate. Shapiro’s cost is probably the school-voucher and Palestine issues, plus the problems of improper behavior among his staffers. Buttigeig’s cost probably includes homophobic voters for whom he’d be a bridge too far. There are probably costs associated with Walz and Beshear as well, though I don’t know them off the top of my head.

    It’s utterly unfair, but this campaign is going to be a near-run thing (or else we’re doomed).

  89. 89.

    Fake Irishman

    @Kay:

    Kay, that’s not a reaction against your primary point about Latinos shifting toward Trump a bit in 2020 and what numbers we need to win overall but a general context for the board about a lot of things going on under the hood (one of my friends worked on this stuff in grad school)

    I believe the post 1990 high point for the GOP with Hispanics was something like 44 percent in 2004 with Bush, right? And the low was Trump in 2016.

  90. 90.

    zhena gogolia

    @schrodingers_cat: One friend reported that the day after Biden dropped out, our mutual friend was all excited, saying that Harris needed to choose Adam Kinzinger as VP. She said, “I wish I could get this idea to them.” The other friend said she said, “Just call and leave them a message, I’m sure they’ll get right on that.” Democrats are hilarious sometimes.

  91. 91.

    SFAW

    @Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:I don’t know if you were following the July wars here, or completely away, but here’s a non-detailed version.Following the debate, during the run-up to President Biden dropping out of the race, there were two (armed) camps commenting here: the “Biden needs to drop out NOW for the good of the country” and “the anti-Bidens need to stop freaking out and STFU!” [I’m drastically over-simplifying, for brevity.] There were a lot of attacks, from both sides, towards jackals who have been here for ages. A number of the long-termers were called trolls. It was pretty ugly.
    As a follow-on to that ugliness, some number of commenters said, in effect, “Fuck it! I’m outta here.”
    And, to make matters worse: Steeplejack died a couple of weeks ago.
    [As I said, I don’t know if you were reading/lurking until today; sorry if I repeated stuff you already knew.]​​​

  92. 92.

    WereBear

    @Kay: I was just listening to a podcast, with two women who had a background in organizing, and two men who wear suits to work — not a diss, just a note:

    Because one of the men was complaining about “weird,” because we’re Democrats, we accept people, and this went into how we have to explain the threat to democracy.

    One of the women countered with, “We tried that, it didn’t work. It was too abstract. People couldn’t get it. Trump is weird. His followers are weird. Everyone got it.”

    And to the women, that was that. While to the men, there was some kind of standard they wanted to uphold, and this might be why the gears were stuck.

    And needed an impact adjustment from practical people, low-of-privilege people. Like women who went in knowing they had to be twice as good.

    And became so.

  93. 93.

    Geminid

    @Suzanne: The I-81 Corridor from Petersburg through Atlanta is also an important growth corridor.

    Ed. It links to the I-10 Corridor in South Georgia, I think.

  94. 94.

    Kay

    @Suzanne:

    55 still isn’t good enough. If Harris got 55 of the Latino vote it would still be the lowest share in 20 years. But it’s better than 45/45, which is where we were. There’s this whole social media discussion going on among Latino political junkies about grifters in the Latino consultant world. I think these discussions are really important and a check on grifterism in the D Party.

  97. 97.

    Kay

    @WereBear:

    I think we can say people cared about a very broad “democracy” theme in 2020 and then cared less about it in 2024. Campaign people weren’t wrong in 2020 but they might have been wrong in 2024. That can all be true.

  101. 101.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Geminid: ?  I-81 doesn’t make it to Georgia. Though it is a critical part of getting to W&L, so I agree with its importance!

  102. 102.

    BritinChicago

    @Suzanne: “The I-10 corridor is really the future of the country.”

    I had to look it up: from Santa Monica CA to Jacksonville FL. I’d have thought that global climate disruption would make most of that area pretty inhospitable in twenty or thirty years.

  103. 103.

    suzanne

    @Geminid: Agreed. “The I-10 corridor” is basically just an easy way of referring to the chain of cities across the Sun Belt that are growing rapidly.

    But even within states, the country is urbanizing, as is happening here in PA. The modern economy needs relatively fewer people in agriculture and resource extraction, and more in services, education, and healthcare…. which, due to market forces, collect in urban areas. And the rural tourist areas (like Jackson, WY, and Breckenridge, CO) are not closing up that gap.

  104. 104.

    Kay

    I had such a cute convo with the Danish 3 year old grandaughter this morning (early!). She’s bilingual and she switches between English and Danish when she’s telling me things – frustrating for both her and me. So this time I made her my interpreter. If she shows me “glue” that she got in a craft kit and uses the Danish word I say “what is (poorly mimic Danish word)?” and she’ll translate to English. If she uses the English word I say “what is glue?” and she’ll say the Danish word. It’s just the wildest thing.

  105. 105.

    catclub

    OT: Crazy stock markets! I tried to log in to Vanguard [ This looks to me like a day to buy foreign stocks.] and apparently there are lots of other people like me doing the same thing. It hung up and could not load.

  106. 106.

    3Sice

    FTFNYT is saying the VP pick is rending the party, with the MVP picture you would expect from those hacks.

    I take it she is not crossing Joe’s picket line for “engagement” with that ship of fools.

  107. 107.

    Princess

    @Kay: Their brand of magical thinking inclines them to it; I hate when our side goes in the same direction. Like assuming increased Black support of Trump is a myth, for instance.

  108. 108.

    gene108

    If the media paid attention to the dozens of former Trump administration officials who have been publicly saying Trump should never be president again, such as VP Pence, Cabinet Secretaries like Kelly to Esper, to  Press Secretary Grisham, John Bolton, and so many others, it might not be as shocking other Republicans do not want to see Trump re-elected.

  109. 109.

    suzanne

    @BritinChicago: The data doesn’t lie: those cities along the southern stretch of the country are where people are moving. Climate is a concern, for sure, but that’s down the road a while. For the type of people who are willing to move to chase opportunity and lifestyle, they’re voting with their feet right now.

  110. 110.

    Anyway

    @The Red Pen:

    I’m anticipating being excited about Harris’ VP pick, but I’m also in the camp of people who would vote for her if she chose Joe Lieberman.

    I have standards – I demand a pulse!

  111. 111.

    JML

    I’m fine with any of the potential VP picks; there’s no disaster bombs anywhere IMHO.

    Regardless of what happens, we all owe a debt of gratitude to Tim Walz for finding the way to encapsulate everything that’s wrong with GOP politics with one small sentence:

    “These guys are just weird.”

    People jumped on board with it immediately and it’s stuck. It’s sunk into the American political consciousness now, and it’s not coming off, because everybody fundamentally knows it’s true. (and man do the GOP candidates, especially TFG, HATE it.)

    We’ve all been trying to get something to stick to these clowns to give everyone a short-hand on how and why they were bad for everyone and bad for the country and nothing ever quite latched on (must have been the extra protective layer of slime these evil schmucks  have).

    this one has. They’re weird. Their ideas are weird, and they’re personally weird and not in any kind of good or fun ways.

    Thanks, Tim Walz!

  112. 112.

    Bupalos

    @Soprano2: Put a little chill down my spine when Megan Thee Stallion got the biggest crowd roar in her pro-Harris spiel when she said Kamala was going to lower these gas prices.

  113. 113.

    Kay

    @Princess:

    Everyone forgets that Romneyites were absolutely election deniers. Romney himself wasn’t – that’s the difference. Trump makes everyone worse.

  114. 114.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    @thruppence:

    Some of those travels sparked something in me (particularly the megaliths in Malta) because I’ve ordered my transcripts and plan on entering a masters’ program in Anthropology next fall. There’s several moving pieces, but even with my lackluster undergrad grades (I didn’t do as well as I recalled), I can slide in sideways because I have my Juris Doctor and a solid career behind me – the department chair was enthusiastic about having me aboard, and he felt that there was no need for me to repeat any undergrad courses or to take prerequisites.

    Should be fun!

  115. 115.

    catclub

    @Princess: Like assuming increased Black support of Trump is a myth, for instance.

     

    Yes, this should not be too surprising.  It is interesting to remember that the average black Democrat is likely to be more conservative than the average white Democrat. Also more likely to be a churchgoer.

     

    on the third hand, a change from 90-10 to 85-15 is more easily measureable than a change from 57 to 52.

  116. 116.

    Belafon

    @3Sice: Not that bsky is even representative of the far left Democrats, but “we’re doomed” is a common sentiment among posters there if Shapiro is chosen.

  117. 117.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: There are many who don’t post here anymore besides those two. SInce I am sucker for punishment I return to comment occassionally to  the Mean Girls HOA at the Retirement Memory Care Center and Griftopia (h/t satby)

  118. 118.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    @SFAW:

    Damn – I always liked Steeplejack.

    Ain’t none of us getting any younger….

  122. 122.

    Baud

    @3Sice:

    I take it she is not crossing Joe’s picket line for “engagement” with that ship of fools

     
    That’s what my heart wants, but my head says she needs to bend a knee because the NYT owns too many Democrats. I’ll support her whatever she decides.

  124. 124.

    tobie

    My only experience with Walz, living as I do in another state, is through an academic journal. The journal Cultural Critique decided to boycott all Israeli academics. There was quite a brouhaha about this on social media. The journal is published by the U of MN Press, and the university regents–presumably under some pressure from the governor–made the journal not only revoke the boycott but issue an abject public apology. Now if the governor of PA had been involved in such a decision that bears upon academic freedom, I’m sure social media would be all over it.

  127. 127.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    @Baud:

    Slow and steady, trust your equipment.

    And don’t flip out and gobble your air by overexerting up top to keep your head out of the water so you don’t use your tank. Slow breaths, and it gets easy.

    Funny story – I was battling severe congestion the entire two weeks of the dives, and had to chomp Sudafed like Skittles while using Afrin to clear my nose and keep my ears open enough to equalize. Went to the allergist last week, and as it happens, I’m allergic to everything. That said, all my dives lasted 45-55 minutes even with the congestion and coughing, and I never came up with less than 600-700 lbs of air.

  128. 128.

    Kay

    @Princess:

    The people opposing Shapiro because of the Greenberg murder are conspiracy theorists. It’s embarrassing. Finding a photograph where Shapiro is “with” the (maybe!) murderer because they or their children went to the same school is just wacky true crime pushpins and yarn stuff. It just doesn’t mean anything. I don’t even think it counts as a “coincidence”. It’s two people who have a connection to the same school.

  130. 130.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @tobie:

    I think what Shapiro said in college was much worse than that. And coverage of that could drown out anything else and piss off Arab-American voters we need to win in MI

  132. 132.

    Kay

    It’s like saying people who attended the same school at any time are all “friends”. Wacky.

  136. 136.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    @Baud:

    Get the Afrin – it’ll save your dives.

    And don’t force it – I’m now wearing a hearing aid to address 60% hearing loss in my right ear (and raging tinnitus) from a really dumb dive decision I made to descend too fast nearly 10 years ago. Baritrauma to the ear is by far the leading dive injury.

  140. 140.

    BethanyAnne

    @Anyway: I named a hunter in World of Warcraft “Irregardless” and her pet “TheirTheyre” just to hear our healer twitch every time we grouped up :)

  141. 141.

    tobie

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): The difference is that we haven’t sifted through every aspect of Walz’s record including his high school and college days because his name is not Cohen, Shapiro or Weinberg. Frankly you sound like rightwingers digging up Michelle Obama’s college thesis and trying to make hay out of it. I don’t really care about the VP but the blatant double standard that has emerged disturbs me to no end. Yair Rosenberg wrote a good article on this

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/07/josh-shapiro-netanyahu-jewish-vp/679300/

  143. 143.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Belafon:

    It doesn’t matter, unfortunately. If the I/P War wasn’t happening now, I would agree with you, provided he apologized. But it’s too great a risk imo. Why step on a landmine if you don’t have to? Plus, there’s recent things, like his handling of university protests

  146. 146.

    catclub

    @brendancalling: I’m very worried about a recession hitting right when the election heats up.

     

    The data I have looked at suggests that a recession, [which I still feel is virtually impossible when the unemployment rate is 4.3%] only affect elections if the recession is having an impact in the spring of the year.

    The window has passed if history is a guide.

    Note that 2nd quarter economic growth was GREAT, and it was better than first quarter growth.

     

    On the third hand, if gas prices drop, that is surprisingly positive for the incumbent. [I disagree, because gas prices drop due to recessions, and gas prices go up when there is higher demand due to economic activity.  How EV’s change this, I do not know.]

  147. 147.

    Kay

    @Belafon:

    I agree but I do wonder why that kind of grace wasn’t extended to the protestors. I mean, there’s some hypocrisy in this. He walked right into the punch – “I denounce these 20 year olds! Except myself”

  148. 148.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @tobie:

    I’m not the one digging it up for one and it’s a salient issue with a significant chunk of people we need to win. There are bad actors who will absolutely use this against us and we could lose

  149. 149.

    Another Scott

    @catclub: The S&P 500 was recently up over 25% from a year earlier.  People will rush to take profits, trying to beat everyone else, at the first sign of bad news.  Worries about the AI bubble are real also too.

    I’m in the dollar cost averaging and buy and hold camp, myself.  The fundamentals of the economy are still very strong. Not financial advice, yada yada.

    Hang in there, and good luck.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  152. 152.

    tobie

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): You really don’t know shit. He handled the protests in PA just fine. He made a point of saying that most of the protestors were not engaged in antisemitic rhetoric by any stretch of the imagination. He made clear he was talking about a few isolated incidents where the rhetoric had crossed over into racism. It’s been eye-opening to see how effective the smear campaign has been. Most of you opposing Shapiro repeat that same talking points circulating from activists on social media. Do some research for Pete’s sake.

  153. 153.

    SatanicPanic

    @Kay: I would really like it if Latino politicians would get some space in the Harris administration. Biden promoting Becerra to Health and Human Services was great. But I’d like to see more. Preferably people with origins from different parts of Latin America. Like Guatemala or Brazil or something. Seems like the only Latinos  with national profiles are Cuban Americans. Or those Castro brothers who, honestly, are kinda goofy.

  154. 154.

    JML

    @tobie: Thanks for slandering the governor of MN by claiming that he pressured the University of MN Board of Regents to do something with zero evidence. (and zero understanding of how politics and the regents work in MN, either, if you think a) this is somehting the governor would get involved in, and b) if you think the regents would care what he thinks) That’s shady AF and you should be ashamed of yourself.

  155. 155.

    Kay

    @Belafon:

    And his response – to be just outraged that anyone would dream of bringing up something bigoted he wrote when he was 20…it didn’t occur to him that’s exactly what he did with the protestors? Sheesh. He doesn’t have to be a philosopher king but I would hope for a tiny bit of self awareness.

  156. 156.

    tobie

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Well, one of the groups it’s salient with is Jewish Americans who are being reminded just how deep the antisemitism runs on the left. Fortunately most of us are mature voters and will vote blue even if Harris caves to the pressure campagin from the eft. Walz challenged the academic freedom of a journal published in his state and no one gives a damn.  Go figure.

  157. 157.

    Baud

    @tobie:

    We won’t know why she chose the pick she chooses, assuming it’s not Shapiro. If you want to assume she caved, that’s solely a choice you’re making.

  161. 161.

    Kay

    @SatanicPanic:

    Maybe she’s more attuned to it because California? I think it’s time we had a western candidate, honestly. It’s a different perspective. Remember how popular GWB was with Latinos when he was governor? That’s a Texas lesson he learned. Same with DeSantis in Florida. We’re probably not as plugged into them as we need to be to compete with the GOP.

  163. 163.

    tobie

    @Baud: She will make whatever decision she makes but the ugliness of the debate about the VP candidate and the smear campaign directed against one candidate, while others have not been scrutinized at all, is stomach churning.

  164. 164.

    Citizen Dave

    @Bupalos: I read that the other day.  As an economist I have never liked this association of any President with the ability to change gas prices.  It’s a world market, etc.

    There is the U S. reserve, I suppose taxes can be adjusted, but that’s more for Congress/state legislatures (and POTUS/Governor).  And locally, the Chicago area does have a special blend, and due to a key refinery shutdown a month ago, prices have spiked in that area. So I believe the administration temporarily replaced the EPA rule.

  165. 165.

    Belafon

    If we’re talking about handling protests, aren’t we going to have to talk about Walz and the Floyd protests? (Walz is at the top of my list at the moment.)

  167. 167.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @tobie:

    I will absolutely support and vote for the ticket if she chooses Shapiro. I just think it will come with some bad costs if we do, potentially. I suppose I’m just risk averse. I apologize

  170. 170.

    bbleh

    @brendancalling: @catclub: @Another Scott: easy does it.  There was already some sentiment that the market was a little too bubbly, the Fed didn’t drop rates at the last meeting (awww), and then came like TWO employment reports suggesting the (otherwise extremely strong) labor market was softening a bit.  So they’re all in a bit of a panic, because that’s what they do.  (Note: “the market” is less an amalgam of wisdom than a bunch of herd animals.)  Concur entirely it’s WAY too soon to even SAY the R word with a straight face (not that this will stop every excited “business” talking head today), and also concur that it’s probably a bit late in the game for even a sustained downturn (which this isn’t yet) to have much of an effect on the election.

  171. 171.

    tobie

    @zhena gogolia: The state got involved because the boycott violated the H.F. 400, the anti-BDS law. I thought it passed in 2022. I was mistaken the law passed in 2017. Mark Dayton was governor at the time.

  174. 174.

    tobie

    @JML: Are we playing out the Monty Python argument/contradiction skit? The university didn’t want to get involved. It was forced to because the journal’s policy violated a state bill, HF 400.

  176. 176.

    Baud

    My guess is that the official vetting team is looking at a number of factors that aren’t among the ones the Internet gurus think are the most salient.

  177. 177.

    Soprano2

    @schrodingers_cat: Ugh, I just listened to an hour of 1A where they were talking about what “moderate” voters want Kamala Harris to do as far as her VP pick, and of course there was a suggestion that she pick a Republican like Adam Kinzinger. I was all over their comment section on FB talking about Project 2025 and how radical Republicans have become and why don’t we have a show about that, but it was ignored. They are still operating from the paradigm that Republicans are the more reasonable, moderate party and Democrats are the radicals who need someone to moderate them. They have not adjusted to the reality that Democrats are now moderate, and Republicans are radicals.

  178. 178.

    frosty

    @SFAW: It was Steeplejack’s brother who let us know. BTW if you would like the jackaltariat to know you’ve passed on contact WG with info on who to reach out to. She started a spreadsheet awhile back.

    We all miss Amir.

  179. 179.

    Belafon

    @schrodingers_cat: Agreed. I’m just noticing, and I’m not the only one, that a lot of the things people are complaining about with Shapiro aren’t unique to him, and wonder what happens when the focus isn’t on him.

  180. 180.

    Soprano2

    @SFAW: It was the ugliest period I’ve ever seen on this blog. Everyone is operating from a place of extreme fear that TCFG will get into office again, which I think is mostly what was driving all of that. Fear kills reason.

  181. 181.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I’ve said this before but I follow quite a few of the vocal, online Horseshoe Left and if they hold to form, what you said will happen.

    But what’s been interesting so far is an incredible (for them) buy in on Walz as the VP pick.  Again, I figured they’d hang any excuse on anybody in order to abrogate their electoral responsibility come November.

    But their statements thus far on Harris and a pick like Walz has shocked the hell outta me.  Still won’t hang my hat on their vote come November but hopefully that won’t be the case.

  182. 182.

    zhena gogolia

    @tobie: I personally don’t think “academic freedom” means excluding scholars because of their country of origin.

  183. 183.

    Soprano2

    @WereBear: The short story is that people don’t believe there is a threat to democracy no matter how much you tell them there is. They just don’t believe it, so Democrats had to find another way to get through to people, and “weird” works because it’s true.

  184. 184.

    tam1MI

    @WereBear:

    Deeply peeved by “you’ve got another thing coming” because that is meaningless.

    The whole phrase is, “Is that what you think? You’ve got another think coming.”

    I blame Judas Priest.

  185. 185.

    SatanicPanic

    @Kay: yeah I never got why GWB was so popular with Latinos but it was real. Part of it is a problem I hear in CA. Even popular local level pols here struggle to break through at the state level. We had Lorena Gonzalez here in SD and I was thinking she’d go places. Nope, married the wrong white dude. KDL obviously sucked. And I barely hear from Alex Padilla. It’s disappointing. I don’t know if it’s racism or people just making bad decisions. Or just bad luck.

  186. 186.

    JML

    @tobie: and you claimed the governor personally pressured the regents (with implication that he was behaving unethically, like Gov Meatball down in FL), without evidence, apparently because you wanted to dirty up Walz…because you don’t like the pokes people are taking at Shapiro?

    (I like Shapiro just fine as a VP pick, BTW)

    This is exactly the kind of in-fighting that the media loves to get from democrats…and why so many of us were in deepest fear this summer about the DNC and the campaign degenerating into this kind of nonsense.

  187. 187.

    Baud

    @Soprano2:

    Yes, it’s becoming apparent that abstract threats from the right don’t hit home the way abstract (and usually made up) threats from the left do.

    See also abortion. It had to become real for people to notice.

  188. 188.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: People are all the time asking me if I know a particular city employee, as if we all just know each other. The city employs over 1,000 people who are spread out in offices all over the city! Then half the time I find out they actually work for the local utility company, which has a relationship with the city but is separate from them. It’s funny how they assume I must know everyone.

  189. 189.

    Soprano2

    @brendancalling: They’re all freaking out because they wanted the Fed to announce a rate cut last week, and they didn’t do it. They’re tired of fighting inflation, they want interest rates to start going down again.

  191. 191.

    PatD

    @schrodingers_cat: far too much energy is spent focused on the loud but quite insignificant fringe left. There will always be some small amount of whiners from every direction.

  192. 192.

    Soprano2

    @catclub: The O’Boys have said more than once that Obama’s approval rating tracked almost exactly with the rise and fall of gas prices.

  193. 193.

    tobie

    @JML: No, I’m responding to the double standards. I don’t really care who the VP pick is. But the state did get involved in the Cultural Critique decision. U of MN Press didn’t object to it. The boycott became an issue when some folks realized that at it violated a state statute. Was Shapiro involved in policing decisions regarding protests in Philadelphia? That’s usually a municipal issue, but I’ve now seen several BJers say Shapiro had protestors arrested. There’s an industry out there generating this smear and it has everything to do with Shapiro being Jewish. That’s deeply upsetting to witness.

  195. 195.

    Josie

    @zhena gogolia: This is exactly what I was wondering. I’m not a university person, but, to me, excluding people for racial reasons doesn’t sound like academic or any other kind of freedom.

  197. 197.

    Soprano2

    @tobie: It is not true that others have not been scrutinized. I’ve seen a lot of criticism of Kelly and unions. Unfortunately, the I/P Gaza war is one of the most salient and explosive issues right now.

  198. 198.

    PatD

    @Kay: Most definitely not. Republicans have done a better job at elevating Latino conservatives and putting them in positions of power.

  199. 199.

    tobie

    @Soprano2: Because I followed the story very closely–I’ve known one of the editors for donkey’s ages–and what made a difference were threats of lawsuits to the state AG. This issue went well beyond the university.

  200. 200.

    Soprano2

    @bbleh: Note: “the market” is less an amalgam of wisdom than a bunch of herd animals.

    Boy is this true, they freak out as a herd. Little of it is logical. The best thing is to hold investments, or even buy when they drive the market low, and wait them out.

  203. 203.

    Soprano2

    @Baud: People believe the U.S. is exceptional and will be an exception from fascism, that it could never come to power here because our democracy is too strong. The headwinds on this are so strong that I think trying to make the argument is fruitless.

  204. 204.

    Soprano2

    @tobie: I have to say I agree with zhena, excluding people just because they’re Jewish Israeli doesn’t sound like academic freedom to me, it sounds like discrimination. If he was involved in reversing discrimination perhaps that’s a good thing, not a bad one.

  207. 207.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Kay: ​People have called this Party “herding cats” for 50 years for a reason – we’re not Republicans.

    Anyone who says you can’t herd cats never heard of a can-opener (Jim Hightower). Which I discovered during my very first stretch of catsitting >50 years ago.

    The level of sheer unadulterated stupidity that masquerades as (& believes itself to be) the height of wisdom never ceases to boggle my mind.

  208. 208.

    tam1MI

    @tobie: The difference is that we haven’t sifted through every aspect of Walz’s record including his high school and college days because his name is not Cohen, Shapiro or Weinberg. Frankly you sound like rightwingers digging up Michelle Obama’s college thesis and trying to make hay out of it. I don’t really care about the VP but the blatant double standard that has emerged disturbs me to no end. Yair Rosenberg wrote a good article on this.

    I personally don’t care for Shapiro as a V. P. candidate, but people would have to be blind, deaf, and dumb not to have noticed the disturbing whiff of anti-semitism in the organized campaign to oust him from the V.P. spot.

  209. 209.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Bupalos: Yep. One of the reasons people easily believed that Democrats caused inflation (as opposed to the pandemic and other issues) is because the GOP has been saying for decades that Democratic environmental policies will increase gas and other energy prices. (Plus, they argue that higher wages lead to higher prices, not a more fair economy.) Unfortunately, we can not win elections and do things that raise energy prices. That is the reality. Its scary and I don’t know how we fix this.

  211. 211.

    Lyrebird

    @Baud: What about when we complain incessantly on the Internet?

    (-:  LOL  :-D

    Thanks going out to you and to the amazing Anne Laurie!

  212. 212.

    tam1MI

    @tobie: She will make whatever decision she makes but the ugliness of the debate about the VP candidate and the smear campaign directed against one candidate, while others have not been scrutinized at all, is stomach churning.

    When I was arguing against the orchestrated campaign to force Biden to step aside, I warned, “If they can do it to a candidate you hate, they can do it to a candidate you like”. Even so, I am astounded at how quickly the precedent has been deployed again.

  214. 214.

    Fake Irishman

    @SatanicPanic:

    Like Miguel Cardona? The Secretary of Education of Puerto Rican descent?

    Mayorkas at Homeland Security is also Latino, though from Cuba.

    The last DNC chair, Tom Perez is also Latino.

  216. 216.

    Fake Irishman

    @tam1MI:

    Not really sure how a debate over which VP candidate to select has devolved into one “being forced to step aside” ?He hasn t been selected for anything yet. We might has well say Larry Summers was forced to step aside for  Janet Yellen for Fed chair in 2014. Shapiro has some big plusses and some potential negatives. Since he’s considered the front runner, he’s getting scrutiny. Some of it is fair, some probably isn’t. There are also internal factions within the Democratic Party who have preferences and they are letting those preferences being known.

    That’s OK!

  218. 218.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    If Harris got 55 of the Latino vote it would still be the lowest share in 20 years. But it’s better than 45/45, which is where we were. There’s this whole social media discussion going on among Latino political junkies about grifters in the Latino consultant world. I think these discussions are really important and a check on grifterism in the D Party.

     

    That it’s that low is just ridiculous to me.

    Muthaphucka is telling you, verbatim

    that he plans to place you in concentration camps, then throw you out of the country…

    the level of delusion and desperation for White Adjacency is crazy.

    Because, the thought, that the Orange Menace cares if they are ‘ the good ones’. …

    That shyt is ridiculous to me.

  219. 219.

    rikyrah

    @MomSense:

    I notice you didn’t mention any downsides to Pritzker. 😉

     

    I don’t want to lose my Governor, and I don’t know how he’ll play in the rest of the Midwest, as opposed to Governor Santa Claus.

  220. 220.

    SatanicPanic

    @Fake Irishman: Right but it’s all Caribbean peoples because the East Coast I assume gets more people from those places. Theres a lot of diversity in Latin America and I’d like to see more representation.

  221. 221.

    geg6

    @Soprano2:

    It wasn’t fear to me, it was anger.  It still is.  And probably will remain that way.  I will never reply to or reference certain people here ever again.  I am fine with Harris (never a big fan, but she’s done well the past few weeks and I’ll certainly vote for her).

    What angered me was the disrespect and vile slanders against Biden that were being trafficked here, no better than you’d hear on FOX.  The smears were so bad that horrible media takes were being taken for granted as true (of course he has Foot Parkinson’s!  Of course, he has Altzheimers!  Fuckers.).  He didn’t and never will deserve that.  What he deserved was what his team actually gave him, a dignified and loving way to do the right thing by the nation, not the avalanche of lies and insults pushed on him by those who were just waiting to knife him in the back.  It was and still is disgusting.

  222. 222.

    Geminid

    @SatanicPanic: The House Hispanic Caucus is fairly diverse, and it’s mostly Democrats. We added at least 3 more in 2022.

    We don’t see that much about them on national news but that’s true for most Democratic Representatives. If one looks at local and state sources they find these Representatives are quite active, and many are every bit as capable as the “stars” we hear so much about

    Ed. Former Rep. Debbie Mucarsel-Powell was born in Uruguay. She is running against for Senate this year, against Rick Scott in Florida. Rick Scott in Florida

  223. 223.

    tobie

    @Soprano2: Is Shapiro a dual national? I don’t think so. So with that in mind I’d be open to having every candidates’ position on Israel scrutinized, not just the Jewish candidate, because this frankly feels like a charge that Jews have divided loyalties. We’re we to suggest this about any other group, we would deserve to be rebuked for bigotry.

  224. 224.

    Soprano2

    @geg6: I didn’t like much of that either. To me it was obvious that Biden doesn’t have dementia, but unfortunately too many people believe that it’s obvious that he does! I posted on another thread about one of my friends who’s not a MAGA and is a highly educated person who posted on FB that Biden’s family allowing him to continue to run for office was elder abuse because of course he doesn’t know there’s anything wrong with him (this is all based on what she saw with her parents, both of whom developed Alzheimer’s. I’m scared for her odds with that disease). I pushed back on it, but a lot of her friends were agreeing with her. I think it was going to be too hard for Biden to overcome what people think they saw, even though it wasn’t what they actually saw.

  225. 225.

    Soprano2

    @tobie: *sigh* I was only saying that because of the Gaza situation people’s positions on it are being looked at under a microscope. I’m not anti-Semitic, I’m pro-beating-TCFG. I think if any of the others had problematic positions on this issue it would be coming to light. With Shapiro that’s not what concerns me, I’m more worried about the sexual harassment thing. If he’s picked I hope they delve into that deeply and are ready for whatever attacks could happen because of it. Whoever it is, the key is to know about their background and be ready. Look at how poorly the Republicans vetted Vance; they seem to be completely unprepared for the things that have come out about him.

    Anyone who thinks Jewishness is the problem would also be against Harris because her husband is Jewish.

  227. 227.

    tobie

    @Soprano2: There’s no daylight between Shapiro’s positions on Israel/Palestine and Walz’s. None. The difference is who they are: one a Jew, one not.

    Yair Rosenberg has a tongue in cheek post up on Twitter about this. First he attributes the following to Shapiro.

    SHOCKING Shapiro revelations: *Voted to condemn UN resolution against Israeli settlements that Obama allowed to pass *Participated in AIPAC conference, called Israel “our truest and closest ally in the region, with a commitment to values of personal freedoms and liberties, surrounded by a pretty tough neighborhood” *Met with Netanyahu personally, released photo to media *Said of campus protests, “I think when Jewish students are telling us they feel unsafe in that, we need to believe them, and I do believe them… Creating a space where political dissent or political rallying can happen is one thing. Intimidation is another.” *Said in June: “the ability of Jewish people to self-determine themselves is foundational…The failure to recognize the state of Israel is taking away that self-determination. So it is antisemitic.”

    Then comes the big reveal.

    Oh, sorry that was Tim Walz: https://congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-resolution/11… https://web.archive.org/web/20100601235937/https://www.minnpost.com/community_voices/2010/03/23/16852/an_inside_look_at_the_pro-israel_aipac_conference… https://tpt.org/almanac/video/governor-tim-walz-april-2024-40732/… https://startribune.com/st-paul-council-president-calls-pa-governor-a-hardcore-zionist-says-harris-shouldn-t-pick-him/600617436?utm_source=gift…

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