Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I was promised a recession.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

He imagines himself as The Big Bad, Who Is Universally Feared… instead of The Big Jagoff, Who Is Universally Mocked.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

I also would like a pony to improve my balloon juice experience.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

“And when the Committee says to “report your income,” that could mean anything!

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

Come on, man.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Maybe you would prefer that we take Joelle’s side in ALL CAPS?

I am pretty sure Katy Tur wasn’t always such a bootlicking sycophant.

American History and Black History can not be separated.

Republican also-rans: four mules fighting over a turnip.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / They Are All Mob Bosses Now

They Are All Mob Bosses Now

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They are all mob bosses now.  So brazen – they are confident that they can get away with anything.

Mob Boss Neil Gorsuch:

Don’t like your neighbor?  Don’t like how someone votes?  Now, in Georgia, you don’t have to just grumble about that.  You can request that they be taken off the voter rolls!

.

Lady Justice cannot be happy abut any of this.

In November, let’s show them that they’re wrong about that.

Update:  Drip, drip, drip, you bastard.  Maybe if you step down you won’t be prosecuted.

Justice Clarence Thomas failed to report a 2010 trip from Hawaii to New Zealand on the conservative donor Harlan Crow’s jet, Senator Ron Wyden, a Democrat of Oregon and the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, said.

[image or embed]

— The New York Times (@nytimes.com) Aug 5, 2024 at 11:52 AM

h/t M31

Reader Interactions

256Comments

  1. 1.

    M31

    you guys aren’t going to believe this, but it seems Clarence Thomas has taken even more undisclosed luxury trips via Harlan Crow than he’s admitted to in the past, the FTFNYT reports

  2. 2.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Watch out, Gorsuck.  You could very well be the one sleeping with the fishes.

  3. 3.

    Yutsano

    It would be nice to get enough votes to impeach successfully some Supreme Court Justices. It did also occur to me that if one if appointed as a judge one can also be reassigned to a new bench. I wonder how much consternation to reassign Judge Thomas to a circuit and move a liberal judge up. That might be opening a can of worms that could definitely backfire but I just wonder if it’s possible.

  6. 6.

    Phylllis

    How many times have these Gladys Kravitz my neighbor is a witch portals backfired on conservatives with people reporting on, say ‘Dick Hurtz’ or ‘Mike Hunt’. All of them, isn’t it?

  7. 7.

    wjca

    The state of Georgia has created a new online portal that makes it easier to cancel people’s voter registrations.

    It might be amusing to try to cancel the registrations of, say, the Republicans on the electoral commission, maybe Governor Kemp, etc.  Or to just flood the zone — make it hard for them to sort out which, if any, are real.

    EDT Phyllis and I are one the same page.  I’m just thinking of helping the implosion along.

  8. 8.

    Caveatimperator

    @Phylllis:

    And it’s going to be even worse when liberals report real people that they know are conservatives.

    Snitch portals don’t work. They barely even work for the dishonest bad faith purpose they’re built for.

  9. 9.

    Anonymous At Work

    I called out Gorsuch’s comment yesterday, but I am reading it as a dare to Harris.  “As long as, and only if, there are nine Supreme Court Justices…”

  10. 10.

    lowtechcyclist

    @M31: ​
     

    you guys aren’t going to believe this, but it seems Clarence Thomas has taken even more undisclosed luxury trips via Harlan Crow than he’s admitted to in the past, the FTFNYT reports

    In a way, it’s getting to be a challenge. Where does he find the time to take all those trips?!

  13. 13.

    Chris

    Speaking of mob bosses, just finished an absolute doorstopper of a book: Three Brotherhoods, A History Of Italy’s Three Mafias, chronicling the history of the Italian mob (and its various enemies) from the nineteenth century to the present day.

    Lots of depressing things in there, not a few of them were familiar.  Especially depressing is how often a story went “well, there were a few good cops and lawyers who made an effort here, but it quickly turned out that really tearing the problem out root and branch would mean dragging way too many important and outwardly respectable people into the light, and the system simply wouldn’t allow that.”

    Also, “it turns out respectable people with mob connections own a lot of voices in the media, which makes it depressingly easy to turn any effort to bring down the mob into a both-sides-do-it circus with the cop/lawyer in question being tarred as another paid-off crook who’s just trying to get famous.”

  14. 14.

    Phylllis

    @wjca: I’m cackling at the idea of Brad Raffensperger having to review thousands of reports on…Brad Raffensperger.

  16. 16.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @wjca: Canceling the registrations of the people who created the Cancel Registrations website initiative would be great! What information do we need for this to happen?

  17. 17.

    New Deal democrat

    Gandhi supposedly said, “First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win.”

    Gorsuch’s remarks show that Biden has successfully moved us out of Phase 1.

  19. 19.

    Belafon

    @wjca: There was a story the other day about some people submitting Greene and other Republicans to be deregistered.

  22. 22.

    Steve LaBonne

    Gorsuch’s not so veiled threat reminds me of Lincoln’s ever-relevant Cooper Union speech: In that supposed event, you say, you will destroy the Union; and then, you say, the great crime of having destroyed it will be upon us! That is cool. A highwayman holds a pistol to my ear, and mutters through his teeth, “Stand and deliver, or I shall kill you, and then you will be a murderer!”

  25. 25.

    Bill Arnold

    @Phylllis:

    How many times have these Gladys Kravitz my neighbor is a witch portals backfired on conservatives with people reporting on, say ‘Dick Hurtz’ or ‘Mike Hunt’.

    Many people who are technically inclined see such report-on-one’s-neighbors portals as a challenge. The tools are better now, e.g. LLMs can generate plausible text for free form fields.

  27. 27.

    Scout211

    Rex Huppke has an opinion piece up on USA Today that I can get behind.

    Has Harris finally broken Trump? He’s flailing, glitching and running scared.

    Folks, I think Vice President Kamala Harris has broken Donald Trump.

    I mean, it’s fair to say he was already broken – in all ways, really – but since Harris became the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee July 21, the GOP’s favorite felon and presidential nominee has been crumbling before our eyes.

     

    Kamala Harris has already reduced Donald Trump to a quivering pile of hate and insults
    He called his opponent – a woman who is the sitting vice president of the United States, an accomplished prosecutor and a former U.S. senator –  “Crazy Kamala” and a “lunatic” and “a radical left freak.”

    He said, falsely, “She happens to be really a low-IQ individual,” and then added, without a hint of self-awareness: “We don’t need a low IQ.”

    Following up his leaning-hard-into-racism moment at last week’s National Association of Black Journalists convention, where he bizarrely suggested Harris only recently “happened to turn Black,” Trump held a Saturday rally in Atlanta that was a festival of ranting and raving, arguably the worst display of Trump’s snarling id we’ve seen in some time.
    . . .

    But it’s clear that Trump is rattled, and that his usual tricks of hurling insults and invective aren’t working. In fact, the smiling calm of the Harris campaign is making Trump’s cruelty look worse than ever. That’s why the label “weird” has been sticking. For many, it’s all getting a bit tiresome.

    And that just makes Trump angrier, and worse.
    We have a long way to go until November, folks. But where we stand here and now, Trump looks like he’s broken. Broken and running scared.

    So much more at the link.

  28. 28.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Chief Oshkosh: From now until EDay, focus all your negativity on our opponents. Put Trump under the spotlight. All while finding joy in our coalition. Practice respect in our disagreements. Reject clout. Reject anti-cringe. Reject over-curation. Give Kamala Harris GREAT social media numbers.

  29. 29.

    lowtechcyclist

    Gorsuch waves caution flag at Biden #SCOTUS overhaul plan. “I’d just say: Be careful,” the Trump-appointed justice tells Fox.

    What’cha gonna do, Gorsuch? Use the power of your office to make things worse for Biden (or Harris)? Undermine Dem legislation more than you would otherwise?  Sure sounds like a threat to abuse your power, doesn’t it?  Hard to draw any other meaning!

    Well, Neil, why should anyone give you and your legislating-from-the-bench Scrotus colleagues the least bit of deference? Why should people do anything besides belch and and fart in your immediate direction?  Point and laugh when they see you in restaurants?  And ultimately, why should anyone pay the least bit of attention to your Scrotus decisions?  You only have power as long as everyone agrees you have power. I’ll send your “be careful” right back at you, because that agreement is fraying around the edges, bucko.

  31. 31.

    Bill Arnold

    @Chief Oshkosh:
    Bold mine:

    But Monday’s rollout of the site by Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger was marred by a glitch that allowed people to access a voter’s date of birth, driver’s license number and last four numbers of a Social Security number. That’s the same information needed to verify a person’s identity and allow a registration to be canceled.

    IIRC there were a few alternatives as well, but in any event, such ID basics are easily found for anyone that one wants to target.

  32. 32.

    KatKapCC

    @Scout211: IQ tests are flawed but I would love to see Mensa re-up the invitation they made to test Trump and…I think it was Tillerson? Maybe John Kelly? How about instead of a debate, we have the two of them take IQ tests on stage and then compare the results. I’m not saying Harris would be equivalent to Hawking or something, but she basically would be in comparison to Trump.

  34. 34.

    OId Man Shadow

    The state of Georgia has created a new online portal that makes it easier to cancel people’s voter registrations. @marceelias shares his concerns about how the website will likely fuel election vigilantism in the state.

    Of course, this does work both ways if you’d be so inclined to report your MAGA family members to their website.

  36. 36.

    WaterGirl

    @Omnes Omnibus: Elizabeth Warren can be a role model in this.

    I remember when the Republicans were blocking her to head the organization that was her own brainchild, and she was on one of the late night shows.

    The host kept trying to get her to say that she was pissed at Obama for not appointing her.  I will never forget her words:

    “I’m saving the rocks in my pocket for Republicans.”

    THAT should be our motto at this point.

  37. 37.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Omnes Omnibus: Sorry if my ask was seen as negative.

    ETA: DOH! I see that that was the summary! Man, I have got to cut back on the coffee…and reading/posting at work

  45. 45.

    Chris

    @matt:

    What really hits home is the sheer amount of bullshit surrounding the entire issue.  The simplest question, “does the Mafia exist?” didn’t even have a straight answer for damn near a hundred years:

    “No, of course the Mafia doesn’t exist.  That’s just a slur that bigoted northerners use to insult poor and simple southerners.”

    “Yes, of course the Mafia exists.  They were great patriots to whom we all owe many thanks for freeing us from Mussolini.”

    “No and yes.  The Mafia exists, but it’s not an organization.  It’s a state of mind, maaann.”

    “Maybe?  If the Mafia exists, it’s only in the sense that everyone’s corrupt.  People pretending to be honest are up to something.”

    “Technically,” ::clears throat:: “it’s the Camorra.”

    “Yes!  The Mafia exists!  The prosecutor asking me that question is part of it!  No Mafia, no Mafia!  You’re the Mafia!”

    “I’m the Mafia!  And so’s my wife!”

    Decades before Fox News, QAnon, and South Park, the entire point was to flood the zone with crap to the point that nobody believed anything said about the mob was true anymore, which of course meant everything was true, and in any case the issue was so nebulous there was little point in getting worked up about it.

  46. 46.

    TBone

    @Chris: 👍 my experience in many law offices, with an Italian ex who was a union carpenter, and having a cop for my dad speaks to the truth of your comment.  I have seen a LOT of malarkey in my day.

    I once worked for an Italian family of attorneys who shall remain nameless.  I had to type up a legal description for a deed that included the property name:  La Casa Nostra.  Also, they represented the Suburban Contractors’ Association. Wink wink

  48. 48.

    JWR

    @Anonymous At Work:

    I called out Gorsuch’s comment yesterday,

    Yeah, I read that NBC story, and wasn’t it sweet of him to open his piehole so he could upchuck a few thoughts on us peons? He gave a boiler plate statement about staying out of politics, especially in an election year, right before giving his nice government you’ve got here. Be a shame if something were to happen to it warning. He’s a fucking goon who’s wallowed in nearly ultimate power since day one. And we know what they say about absolute power.

  50. 50.

    cain

    Why should Biden worry? The SCOTUS has given him the power to do whatever he wants as long as it is an “official act”. I’m sure we can come up with all kinds of official acts going forward. It’s Biden who should say “Be careful”

  51. 51.

    rusty

    What really pissed me off was Gorsuch saying there are too many laws.  His job is to interpret them, not decide that there are too many and start knocking them out en masse (which is what they are doing).  It’s a deeply anti-democratic statement.  The elected legislatures and executives, regularly accountable to the electorate, that make those decisions, not six unelected and lifetime appointed judges.  The arrogance is stunning and demonstrates how broken the current court has become.  As for Thomas, we are well beyond, oops, I forgot to report.  He is liar.  It would be nice if the press ever made that clear.

  54. 54.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Phylllis: @wjca:

    People could target political figures, but they will quickly have their registration restored and will only be mildly annoyed by it. The real people to target are low level GOP state officials, members of GOP supporting organizations (like Operation Rescue), and wealthy donors (who could actually vote in multiple states because they may own more than one property). Targeting the donors is the fastest way to get this thing taken down.

  55. 55.

    gratuitous

    I’m so old, I remember when Hunter Biden was being excoriated in the national press for making a false statement on his firearm application. It was a Very Serious Crime to lie on a federal form. All the best commentators said so, which makes it totally true.

    However, when “Justice” Thomas makes a little oopsie on his financial disclosure form, well, he can just file an amended form, and you proles can just shut up. What? Another oopsie? No problemo, another amended form. Doesn’t mean he was lying or perjuring himself. He just forgot about that jet ride or that resort weekend or the new travel trailer or the adopted kid’s tuition. Doesn’t affect his rulings at all! Because when it comes time to write an opinion, “Justice” Thomas remembers all the swell things Mister Crow has done for him. He just sort of forgets when it comes time to fill out his disclosure forms.

  57. 57.

    KatKapCC

    I have received 4 emails from the Harris campaign today and it’s only noon here. And none of them are about the Veep. Come ON.

  58. 58.

    Chris

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Tangent, but I’m 90% certain that the term “Unione Corse” was just made up by Ian Fleming and that various other people in both fiction and “serious” work took it from there.  French Wikipedia calls it a term given by the American press.  Which isn’t to say that organized crime in France isn’t real, or that it wasn’t dominated by Corsicans (and some Italian immigrants) from the 1920s to the 1980s.

  60. 60.

    Mike E

    @Omnes Omnibus: All negativity towards other Dems, all motivation to be the “most right,” the “knowiest of all,” etc, throw that all out the window. If someone does it to you, don’t respond. They are injecting [un]necessary negativity into the discourse. Which is why Russian trolls imitate them.

    Time-wasting sea lions, pendants and goalpost movers… it’s their favorite season. “Respect mah authoritay!” “Pure citizenship demands you must _________!” Lather, rinse, repeat.

  62. 62.

    SatanicPanic

    Congratulations to Tim Scott who apparently just tied the knot to some white lady. Maybe they’ll have some babies!  That’ll make JD Vance happy although he’ll have a heck of a time explaining to Trump what race his children are.

  63. 63.

    TBone

    Who did Nazi this coming?

    Streamer Adin Ross announced on Tuesday that he will be hosting former President Donald Trump for an interview. Ross — who has 4.4 million YouTube subscribers and a devoted fan base of young men — is linked to white nationalist Nick Fuentes and has hosted other neo-Nazis on his stream. Fuentes is an extremist and Holocaust denier who dined with Trump at his Mar-a-Lago residence in 2022.

    https://www.mediamatters.org/white-nationalism/donald-trump-set-be-interviewed-streamer-adin-ross-who-has-hosted-white

  73. 73.

    bbleh

    @Another Scott: [Gollum voice:] eyeses on the prizes, Precious!

    And I hate to go all Machiavellian here, but maybe a few VERY PUBLIC EXAMPLES of these goons being — entirely lawfully — hung out to dry might discourage this kind of behavior?

    What’s happening to the Felon is just too slo-mo and too easily written off to politics.  What’s happening to Rudy the G is closer, but it just doesn’t seem to be getting the press it deserves.  I mean, in the old days they were literally hung (not hanged — they were already dead) from the battlements.

  74. 74.

    rikyrah

    Democracy Docket

    @DemocracyDocket

    NEW EPISODE: The state of Georgia has created a new online portal that makes it easier to cancel people’s voter registrations.
    @marceelias
    shares his concerns about how the website will likely fuel election vigilantism in the state. Watch the full video: https://youtu.be/MK4b-meIGPU

    The absolute outrageousness of this. I can’t even put into words. Voter cancellation WITHOUT A SIGNATURE? DA PHUCK?
    After all, this is the state that allows someone to challenge the voting status of THOUSANDS of voters, at a time – that they’ve never met.
    This is just enraging.

  75. 75.

    rikyrah

    @M31:

    you guys aren’t going to believe this, but it seems Clarence Thomas has taken even more undisclosed luxury trips via Harlan Crow than he’s admitted to in the past, the FTFNYT reports

    NOOOOOO…

    The leave it on the nightstand HO has taken more payments?

    WHOCOULDAKNOWN?

  78. 78.

    KatKapCC

    @eclare: If you were on Biden’s list, you should already be getting them. They all still come from joebiden.com. But if you weren’t, I assume if you just go to kamalaharris.com it should be easy to find :D

  81. 81.

    Jeffro

    You know, running against “rampant corruption, wherever it may have taken root” really ought to be part of the standard Dem’s stump speech at every level by now.

    The public will get it, the GOP will howl that they’re being accused of corruption, and then the public will really get it.

    No shortage of examples, either.

  90. 90.

    KatKapCC

    KAMALA HARRIS RALLY UPDATE! Indie folk rockers and hometown heroes @boniver will be performing at the @KamalaHarris rally in Eau Claire on Wednesday. Join me as we cheer on our next President, meet her VP pick, and jam to some incredible homegrown tunes. https://t.co/uLwd3xu4wH
    — Ben Wikler (@benwikler) August 5, 2024

    This response made me laugh:

    If your kids ask you what demographic targeting looks like in politics, the answer is Megan Thee Stallion in Atlanta, Bon Iver in Eau Claire. https://t.co/cAiuCVEbOV
    — Michael Scherer (@michaelscherer) August 5, 2024

  91. 91.

    cmorenc

    Why not criminally indict Thomas for bribery?  And thus force him to sit through a trial glowering like Trump did?  Yes, so he could raise the McDonnell case in his defense at his trial *after* the case goes to the jury because of a claim the prosecution failed to prove any specific quid pro quo for an “official act” – but the McDonnel case does not give Thomas a preemptive “get out of jail free” or even “get out of trial free” card.

    Let’s watch SCOTUS squirm to justify green-lighting Thomas’s open corruption as being somehow exempt from criminal indictment.

  92. 92.

    Bill Arnold

    Yet another reason that wikipedia edit history can be interesting.

    Based on the Wikipedia edit history rule, it looks like Harris’s VP pick might be Shapiro (more than 50 edits in the last 24 hours, compared to zero/single digits for Kelly and Walz) pic.twitter.com/ELzdrqB3E1
    — graham starr (@GrahamStarr) August 3, 2024

  93. 93.

    artem1s

    This is the text from the GA website. While it’s not exactly as bad as the headlines seem to suggest, it’s definitely a law looking for problem that doesn’t exist. The Social Security Administration notifies states when they get a death notices for all kinds of reasons. Workers comp; unemployment, etc… The SSA never has a problem clearing the deceased off their payrolls in a timely fashion. Why is the GA state BOE and the GA county BOE’s making the deceased family members or voters who have changed their residence do their jobs for them?

    O.C.G.A. § 21-2-231 & 232 allow an elector or a family member of a deceased voter to request to have such elector’s name removed from the list of electors by making a written and signed request to the County Registrars of such elector’s county of residence in the State of Georgia.

    Voters or a family member of a deceased voter can complete the Secretary of State Voter Registration Cancellation/Removal form to request such elector’s registration be cancelled in the State of Georgia. Please click Here to download the form. Please mail, fax, or email the completed form to the voter’s Georgia County Elections & Registration office or the Georgia Secretary of State office.

  95. 95.

    JaySinWA

    Meanwhile White Nationalist riots in UK seem to get little attention over here. Literal Mob bosses orchestrating this.

    Fascist riots and anti-Muslim hate marches raged across Britain and Northern Ireland this weekend as far-right forces seized on the fatal stabbing of three young girls at a dance class in Southport to stir violence. Mobs organized online and via social media launched brazen assaults on mosques and hotels housing refugees and asylum-seekers.

    https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/fascists-rampage-across-the-u-k-targeting-muslims-and-refugees/

  96. 96.

    Baud

    @Bill Arnold:

    Given that Shapiro has generated the most internet controversy, the edit history makes some sense.  Of course, he clearly one of the finalists so if he’s selected, someone can claim there’s a connection.

  97. 97.

    Scout211

    @cmorenc: Why not criminally indict Thomas for bribery?

    I believe that the current SCOTUS just changed that to a gratuity after the fact.  It’s all good now.  It was just a big fat thank you, 156 times (approximately, but still counting).

  98. 98.

    p.a.

    @cmorenc: Why not criminally indict Thomas for bribery?  And thus force him to sit through a trial glowering like Trump did?

    Official Presidential Act: Joe B to IRS: Campground Clarence and Scammy Scalito get a colonoscopy audit.  “As President investigating corruption is within my purview.”

  99. 99.

    cmorenc

    Meanwhile, David Axelrod is busy again throwing chilly water over D’s chances in this election. Don’t get too excited about the Harris hype  “Still Trump’s to lose” says David.

  102. 102.

    Lyrebird

    @Omnes Omnibus: Hey Omnes!  Grazie Grazie!

    Was gonna ask if you were into Thread Reader App, but you already summarized it.  And thank you for your many instances of already putting that into practice.  The second “already” might not be the best word choice, but I ain’t got time to get my full pedantry on, I’m gonna trust you hear me.

    @WaterGirl: Sen Warren: “I’m saving the rocks in my pocket for Republicans.”

    LOVE

    IT!

    ETA: thanks to WG Ruckus and many others for encouragement – it looks like I will be rejoining the ranks of the employed.

  103. 103.

    KatKapCC

    @cmorenc: I feel like people do this sort of crap because they think if they turn out to be right, everyone will regard them as some kind of modern Nostradamus and then they’ll get even more airtime and interviews and book deals and whatever. Contrarianism as grift. Yuck.

    And if they end up being wrong, they can frame it as “wow this was super unexpected and a big upset and a total surprise” so that them being wrong was like a one in a billion chance.

  104. 104.

    cmorenc

    @Scout211:

    I believe that the current SCOTUS just changed that to a gratuity after the fact.  It’s all good now.  It was just a big fat thank you, 156 times (approximately, but still counting).

    It comes down not to whether a sitting official can be indicted, but what threshold of actual proof is required for successful conviction.  Thomas would not have a basis to preemptively avoid the prosecution and trial, just to appeal to have the conviction vacated if the government cannot show the quid pro quo level the McDonnell case requires.

  105. 105.

    different-church-lady

    …on the conservative donor Harlan Crow’s jet…

    You know, if I were one of the nine most powerful judicial people in the country, I’d at least diversify my grift a bit…

  106. 106.

    Martin

    If we’re going to report on the GA voter registration cancellation portal, at least report that the system for a while revealed all voter details, so it turned into a mechanism to mine your neighbors information so that you could successfully cancel their registration.

    Why the system was even capable of doing this is a bit of a mystery to me. The Registrar of Voters knows how to design systems to avoid this kind of thing – in fact that’s key to vote by mail systems working to catch people trying to double vote – by firewalling information off between systems in specific ways.

  111. 111.

    Martin

    Maybe not the best day for the news to hit that Google lost their DOJ antitrust case.

  112. 112.

    topclimber

    @lowtechcyclist: It’s the cost of shipping an RV aboard a jet that drives up the undisclosed value. Otherwise, “the seat was empty and would have gone to waste. Nothing to see here.”

  114. 114.

    Martin

    @Belafon: Honestly, at this point, designing a system that could make the information available should carry a punishment. We’re in willfully negligent territory given all the lessons we should have learned by now about information security.

  117. 117.

    Trivia Man

    @TBone: I was briefly in the garbage business on Long Island. I was very curious about a lot of things in the company history but never asked.

  120. 120.

    RaflW

    The repeated pattern of Thomas revising his filings and then getting caught for “forgetting” another private, expensive international jaunt with a billionaire is just too f—ing much.

    The pattern is clear: He’s obstructing disclosure. He’s not absent minded. He’s corrupt, and knows that we know, and is doing his crappy best to hide shit.

    Impeachment. Heck, just a freakin’ IRS tax audit out the ass on him ad Crow — you know no gift tax returns were filed! LFG.

  122. 122.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Martin: it is quite likely that this stuff was possible because  the system isn’t something designed from scratch to do the job perfectly, but rather it is the result of a bunch of prior systems kludged together by people who are reporting to multiple authorities who have different and sometimes incompatible goals.  That is happened when I worked for WI’s GAB.  Because of that, the IT people were running around patch flaws as they came up and trying to suggest improvements.  Said improvements then causing new flaws in unexpected places.  You had to keep using the system because you couldn’t just shut down the agency for few months and reboot it.

  123. 123.

    Martin

    @WaterGirl: Market being down 1000 points. Volatility isn’t what you want to add into that.

    I think the decision is a good one, I think it’ll be good for the economy, all that. The timing is unfortunate. Not that courts should give a shit, just not what the market needed today.

  124. 124.

    TBone

    @Trivia Man: smaht! Tight lips are a good thing in certain circumstances.

    I was born in Brooklyn Jewish Hospital and lived in Oceanside, Long Island as a child.  My bio dad was head of Transportation for Singer Sewing.  Until his best friend, who got him the job “committed suicide.” Then all hell broke loose.

  125. 125.

    Martin

    @WaterGirl: I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to be critical. I am thankful for every single thing you do here. You’re amazing, and I truly mean that.

  126. 126.

    RaflW

    @Scout211: I do think Huppke’s “it’s all getting a bit tiresome” tack may work for a slice of voters. I know (or am related to) some folks who are by nature more republican-leaning or (gack) libertarian.

    But they’re also exhausted by so much whining, yelling and bullshit. It is exhausting. And putting that freak back in the WH will make all the fatiguing garbage/noise so much worse. So let’s remind our networks of ‘leaners’ that they can shut the man up by whupping him in the voting booth.

  127. 127.

    Martin

    @Omnes Omnibus: Right, but because we fuck this stuff up so goddamn many times, over and over, at some point you have to put your foot down and say ‘there will be consequences if you just kludge some shit together’.

    Like, I don’t care if you accidentally reveal everyone’s favorite Pokemon on your site, but this is voter information and you are fucking with citizens rights. If you can’t build a secure system, go back to whoever mandated this thing be built and tell them you can’t make it secure and it can’t launch.

    And the problem is that isn’t not even HARD to avoid this. It’s just so throughly incompetent and it just destroys people’s faith in the government.

  131. 131.

    lowtechcyclist

    @WaterGirl:

    Seems like Ballon Juice would fit the bill, wouldn’t it?

    Let me know when someone in the media thinks disagreement here is worthy of coverage.

  132. 132.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Martin: Yeah, fast, cheap, good, pick two.  In a state with a GOP dominated legislature, you aren’t going to get enough money, so you have to choose cheap.  But you also also can’t afford to have the system down for long, so you have to choose fast as well.  And guess where that leaves you?

  134. 134.

    wjca

    @Mike in NC: The biggest wanna be mob boss of them all has a plan: Project 2025

    Just a small correction.  Granted, he’s moved up the past few years.  But compared to a real mob boss he’s still pretty pathetic.

  138. 138.

    rikyrah

    Robert Reich (@RBReich) posted at 1:40 PM on Mon, Aug 05, 2024:
    Trump never divested from his businesses when he became president.

    Forbes now estimates that he earned $550 million during his time in office.

    A huge chunk of that came from foreign investors and governments.

    Whose payroll will he be on if he gets back in the White House?
    (https://x.com/RBReich/status/1820530238369017911?s=03)

  139. 139.

    TBone

    @Anoniminous: how I wish I didn’t have to pay attention, or learn the jargon, or be along for the ride!   Sell high 😆 involved weed where I come from!

  141. 141.

    topclimber

    @TBone: Interesting detail: subhead says Japanese investors are worried that US economy is in worse shape than they thought.

    Story itself says NOTHING about this.

    AP is usually better than this.

  142. 142.

    sdhays

    @rikyrah: I was just wondering if maybe Harris should just go to Trump’s Fox rally debate, but thanks to James Carville, I now know for sure that’s a stupid idea.

    (I wasn’t actually wondering, but confirmation is nice.)

  144. 144.

    KatKapCC

    @rikyrah: It’s like white male pundits get qualified immunity for their entire careers no matter how wrong or irrelevant they become.

  145. 145.

    TBone

    @topclimber: vibecession mongers.

    Husband just exclaimed HOLY SHIT and said “Oops, I didn’t know you were standing there.” (He doesn’t like to scare me.) Teh market runs on vibez.

    Also, shit runs downhill.  And, if you’re a plumber, don’t bite your nails.

    Those immutable laws of the universe may sound silly right now, but the overlords will take it out of our hides. They know we’re on to them.

    Also, I feel Japanese right along with them.

  147. 147.

    JoeyJoeJoe

    @TBone: I’m also from Oceanside (really Baldwin but went to Oceanside schools.  Just want to throw out a recommendation for anyone visiting Oceanside; Mario’s Pizza on Brower Avenue is the best

  155. 155.

    Martin

    @Omnes Omnibus: Why we shouldn’t run government like a business. Basic civic services shouldn’t be required to make that choice – it should be able to deliver on all 3.

  156. 156.

    rikyrah

    clap clap clap

     

    Propane Jane™  (@docrocktex26) posted at 1:04 PM on Mon, Aug 05, 2024:
    Sure, let’s have that conversation, Usha. What are the GOP’s TOP 5 policies that would make life easier for parents/children? And I mean policies with proven outcomes in practice. If that’s what the GOP truly wants so badly for parents & kids, why do they vote against Dem policy? https://t.co/7QyeuVm13K
    (https://x.com/docrocktex26/status/1820521218484977901?t=pNL_LywT1AWqQ5aP-dxc9w&s=03)

  160. 160.

    rikyrah

    Carol Leonnig (@CarolLeonnig) posted at 7:58 AM on Mon, Aug 05, 2024:

    Here’s why it was the most serious allegation of a bribe in White House history.
    1/It was based on “jaw-dropping” CIA intelligence that indicated  Egypt’s president sought in 2016 to illegally inject $10M to help elect Trump
    2/the lead came from a reliable CIA informant and was corroborated by other US intelligence operations
    3/investigators then discovered a $10M cash withdrawal in Jan 2017 from key Egyptian spy agency account that seemed to validate the intel

    (https://x.com/CarolLeonnig/status/1820444276477534328?t=HpPHs6bbx_EYa7gkQZ8YbQ&s=03)

  163. 163.

    trollhattan

    Paris 2024 programming note: Is the Swede pole vaulter Duplantis actually The Bear? Experts disagree.

    Don’t consider not watching the pole vault competition. There’s some other pretty good track and field stuff, too, including a DQ for fighting!

  164. 164.

    Bill Arnold

    @Trivia Man:

    I was briefly in the garbage business on Long Island. I was very curious about a lot of things in the company history but never asked.

    Once, when I was a kid taking a school bus in a northern NYC  suburb, the driver refused to turn up a street, because there were two garbage trucks fighting, one smaller than the other, different companies. They would charge each other, and hit the brakes so that there was no impact. They did this two or three times while we watched.
    Saw this happen two or three times.

  165. 165.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @KatKapCC: Or quote Socrates or Plato, as I recall they did briefly with Dan Quayle to make him sound smarter (narrator: results were about what you’d expect).

    Would be amusing to hear noted “two corinthians” scholar try to pronounce either name.

  166. 166.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    Apologies if this point has been made already but what fucking dumbass. Is the POTUS, who you just gave blanket immunity to, supposed to be afraid…of you? Like he or she has an army, a navy, air force, marines, the FBI, the CIA…and immunity. WTF do you have tough guy? A robe, and maybe a half assed opinion? You can’t issue threats to an office you just, in your august knowledge and wisdom, granted immunity to and expect not to be laughed at.

  167. 167.

    Soprano2

    @KatKapCC: Our stupid AG who is running to be elected to the position he was appointed to spends all his time filing performative lawsuits like this one, which waste taxpayer money. The MAGA’s love it, though

  169. 169.

    KatKapCC

    @rikyrah:

    “You’re gonna love the next dish.”

    “What is it?”

    “Escargot.”

    “Oh, HELL no.”

    1000% agree, Snoop!

  172. 172.

    topclimber

    @Omnes Omnibus: TBF while the lowest cost possible is common to both business and government, the score keeping is different.

    Business looks forthe best combination of sales and profit. Dollars are the metric. Government provides services where the metric varies by mission: say, tax audits completed by the IRS per employee,  number of patient services on Obamacare or school kids reaching literacy by age 10.

    Most business types can’t get past counting money.

  173. 173.

    WaterGirl

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Is it newsworthy when there is disagreement on Twitter?

    I must have missed some key thing about this story, and was about to ask you to tell me what it is, but how would you know what I don’t know? :-)

  175. 175.

    WaterGirl

    @Steve in the ATL:

    James Carville and David Axelrod can go fuck themselves.  Please let me know if that’s too harsh.  Perhaps they would like to dig up someone who is deader than Bob Schrum to manage the campaign.

  177. 177.

    trollhattan

    Well, well, well.

    A federal judge ruled on Monday that Google monopolized online search and general search advertising markets, violating U.S. antitrust laws.

    The DOJ sued Google in 2020 for allegedly monopolizing digital search, pushing out competitors such as DuckDuckGo and Microsoft’s Bing. It was the first major tech antitrust lawsuit since U.S. v. Microsoft, a 1998 case that found Microsoft monopolized computer operating systems. The trial concluded in May.

    “Google’s dominance has gone unchallenged for well over a decade,” wrote Judge Amit Mehta in his 277-page ruling Tuesday. “Google is a monopolist, and it has acted as one to maintain its monopoly. It has violated Section 2 of the Sherman Act.”

    Mehta said Google’s exclusive agreements with companies like Apple have allowed it to hike prices for advertisers without any blowback. He wrote “there is no evidence that any rival constrains Google’s pricing decisions” and that those unconstrained pricing decisions “have fueled Google’s dramatic revenue growth and allowed it to maintain high and remarkably stable operating profits.” The judge noted that nearly 90% of all search queries went through Google in 2020.

    The Google case has been likened to the U.S. v. Microsoft case, which alleged Microsoft held a similarly overwhelming share — more than 90% — of the computer operating system market.

  178. 178.

    TBone

    @eclare: I have to disagree with Martha about horses not remembering their routines.  But thank you for that great clip!

  182. 182.

    eclare

    @KatKapCC:

    The snails and bread are merely a delivery service to your mouth for a wine, butter, and garlic sauce.  Just like mussels.  Both are delish!

  184. 184.

    BR

    The Harris campaign has announced an outsider VP pick nobody would have expected: Sarah Palin.

  185. 185.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @topclimber: Most business types can’t get past counting money.

    The old adage applies: they know the price of everything, and the value of nothing.

  187. 187.

    Tony Jay

    @BR:

    The Harris campaign has announced an outsider VP pick nobody would have expected: Sarah Palin Snoop Dogg.

    Campaign tag-line – Black Enough Fo Ya?

  190. 190.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @BR:

    Apparently the NYT has two reporters devoted to live blogging this livestream of Trump.

    To be fair, it’s hard to use your hands for other things when fellating someone. So I assume they need to trade off who’s doing them actual blogging.

  193. 193.

    geg6

    May Mr. Gorsuch meet the same fate as Tony Soprano (we know they killed him, right?  This isn’t a spoiler for a show that’s been off the air for how many years?).  Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.  Maybe we can talk Alito into going to the diner for lunch with Gorsuch that day.

  196. 196.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @WaterGirl:

    James Carville and David Axelrod can go fuck themselves. Please let me know if that’s too harsh.

    We could put them on a tiny, tiny ice floe along with The Turd (Yglesias) and push them far, far out to sea…a warm sea…with nothing but themselves for the trip.

  197. 197.

    Tony Jay

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    My great-aunt Mildred would always boast that she passed the time knitting. Gifted lady, ambidextrous, jaw like a weightlifter’s knee.

    She never had much time for journalists either.

  200. 200.

    Martin

    @rikyrah: I agree a little bit with Axelrod on this. So far quite a few of the things that have fallen in the direction of the campaign were things out of their control. Not everything – the Atlanta rally was all on the campaign and it was fantastic. But one thing that showed up with the Obama campaign, which you need time to detect, is that they engineered a lot of their own momentum, and the jury is still out on if this campaign will be able to do that. I’m not saying they can’t, just that there’s no evidence yet to say one way or another. I thought the meme the other day was a bust, and it kinds of was. The statement on the Netanyahu protestors was overly broad and not well received and that took a lot of energy out with that audience.

    There’s a wave of energy that needs to be pushed along and we’re waiting to see how that will happen in practice. They have a lot on their plate so I’m not surprised we haven’t really seen it yet.

  204. 204.

    Tony Jay

    @eclare:

    “You hear about Snoop Dogg? The things he says about me. Very sad. Very rude. Charlie Brown should tell him to show more respect. Really rude. So rude. I hear he’s black now as well. I thought he was a dog. You thought that too? He’s white, right? Except for the nose. So strange. He should stick to doing that little dance and flying his little plane. You’re a dog, Dogg. Be proud of what you are. So rude.”

      NYT Headline

    Trump Persists In Questioning Ethnic Identity Claims Of Democrat Candidates.

  206. 206.

    Anonymous At Work

    @WaterGirl: Sorry, work.  I don’t think Gorsuch was “double-dog daring” Biden so much as threatening to strike down any attempt at reform, sight unseen.

    But I do personally think such blatant statements make it more likely that intermediate reforms will either be skipped entirely or rushed out at the start of Congress with an enforcement deadline of “next Monday” to force a confrontation before mid-terms.

  207. 207.

    karen marie

    @Scout211:   I’m wondering if I will live long enough for American voters to figure out the old “THE MOST LIBERAL CANDIDATE VER” canard is bullshit and has always been bullshit.

    Nah.  Not going to happen.

  209. 209.

    TBone

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: I could eat shoe leather thusly dressed if the wine in the sauce is good.  I don’t skimp on my cooking wine. I spend.  That reminds me!  Stock market, meet WINO today only!

  213. 213.

    TBone

    @Tony Jay: I aspire to be a Great Lady like your Aunt.  But, I frequently step in it and then all bets are then off!

    I am ambidextrous and even moreso after Covid switched up my brain.

  214. 214.

    sdhays

    I just saw the headline “Elon Musk sues OpenAI, Sam Altman for making a fool out of him’” and all I can do is hope hope hope for injuries.

    Hard to imagine Musk can prevail when it’s pretty clear he makes a fool of himself on a regular basis, but I haven’t yet read the article.

  215. 215.

    lowtechcyclist

    @WaterGirl: ​
     

    Is it newsworthy when there is disagreement on Twitter?

    That was the whole point of the thread that Omnes linked to:

    The media thrives on Democratic discord. Every time Democrats/Leftists/etc engage in ferocious debate online, editors contact people like me to write Op-Eds. This drives coverage.

  217. 217.

    TBone

    @eclare: indeed, I want to thank you especially because I really needed to feel that today.

    I’m really glad I don’t buy cheap wine for cooking.  I don’t drink,but today calls for an exception! I have excellent taste 😆 mmmm!

  219. 219.

    Peke Daddy

    @Martin: Not pushed by the campaign, pulled by the people. The campaign will direct and focus. Memes come, memes go. There will be a lot coming, not all have to hit at once.

  221. 221.

    eclare

    @TBone:

    I just read your link about Operation Cowboy.  So happy they saved the horses.

    I’m glad your memory made you feel better.

  223. 223.

    Miki

    @Anonymous At Work: To paraphrase  @Kay, it’s not my job to fucking translate Gorsuch’s extrajudicial* blather. If SCROTUS can’t help sinking its own ship I sure as fuck ain’t gonna throw ’em a lifeline.

    *Judicial blather is a whole ‘nuther thang. I will be all over that 💩.

  224. 224.

    dkinPa

    @Scout211:  That is a fun article in USA Today.  I especially like that a lot of Normies are going to see that.  My favorite bit: “Vice President Harris, what have you done to this already very unstable man? The cheese has somehow slid farther off his cracker.”

  225. 225.

    Jackie

    @Baud: I looked ahead to MSNBC’s schedule for tomorrow, and Rachel Maddox has two hrs blocked starting at 6 pm ET titled Kamala Harris’ VP.  At this time, CNN hasn’t modified their regular programming.

    So we’ll already know Harris’ selection by 6 pm and the MSNBC panel will be discussing, or we’ll learn during that timeframe. 😊

  226. 226.

    WaterGirl

    @lowtechcyclist: I think they just get a “vibe” that Dems are in disagreement, or cherry pick anything to show disagreement.

    I don’t think anyone “covers” twitter anymore than anyone “covers” what is said at Balloon Juice.

    Definitely not worth arguing over.  Thanks for the explanation.

  232. 232.

    eclare

    @NotMax:

    That must be some horse!  TBF my cousin has a horse, someone in my coffee group has two horses, and a former coworker had four.  Granted, not at all at Olympic level, but I think there are a lot more horse owners out there than we assume.

  233. 233.

    Ruckus

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Where does he find the time to take all those trips?!

    Whenever he damn well pleases. He is after all the most important person on the planet. Just ask him. I’d be lying if I said I wonder if he doesn’t think he can do anything he wants, even kill some on 5th Ave in NYC and will never get in any trouble whatsoever.

    The current day rethuglican party thinks they can do anything they want and will never have to answer for it in any way. And that’s not a good look for any political party in a democracy. Which I’m thinking this really isn’t at this point in time.

  235. 235.

    KatKapCC

    When I questioned the Trump team yesterday about this clearly manipulated video of Harris that Trump posted on Truth Social, a Trump spox said, “your phone or computer must be fucked up because the audio/video matches up.”

    X now acknowledges the video is “manipulated media.” ⤵️ https://t.co/FjP7ceiLCG
    — Julianne McShane (@JulianneMcShane) August 5, 2024

    The quoted tweet in McShane’s is from an account that just reposts all of Trump’s Truth Social posts, and this one included a video of Biden and Harris on the tarmac the other night, and the video is so obviously manipulated, I think a preschooler could tell. Which means most of Trump’s fans couldn’t.

  240. 240.

    karen gail

    Back in the 60’s & 70’s my father worked for a “nice Italian family” (they did the best Sunday afternoon dinners.) who sold cleaning products to most all the restaurants in Bay Area. Some of the time he was handed bank deposit bag with cash “payment;” those were dropped in box in back of vehicle.  I once asked him about it and was told, “don’t ask, ever.”
    He didn’t make any deliveries to Chinese businesses ever, later reports of Tong wars in Bay area.

    But the interesting thing is that in nearly every area of the world there are those that are in the “business” of supplying protection. They even made a musical out of the ones in New York City.

  243. 243.

    cmorenc

    @Martin: if Axelrod had confined himself to cautioning Ds that the outcome of the presidential race is still a long way from being in the bag for Harris, that it is still in the tossup zone with enough time ahead for unexpected speedbumps to impede her momentum….well, ok.  But Trump is no longer the favorite whose “race it is to lose”.

  244. 244.

    dkinPa

    @rikyrah:  Thanks for letting us know about Vance’s wife.  I was prepared to have some sympathy for her, but now I won’t bother!

  245. 245.

    karen marie

    @gratuitous: I hope you don’t mind but I’ve posted your comment to Mastodon.  I had to abbreviate it because of character limitations but your point is well taken.

    You – or anyone else – can let me know if it creates a problem and I can remove the link or the post.

    Thanks!

  246. 246.

    WaterGirl

    Has anyone seen SC on Balloon Juice today?

    I found 4 of her comments in SPAM last night when I was trying to see why Phyllis wasn’t able to post. Poor Phyllis had somehow (I’m sure mistakenly) been banned, so I un-banned Phyllis and un-spammed SC.  No idea how SC ended up as SPAM, either  Gremlins were unusually busy for a Sunday!

    If anyone is friends with SC on twitter, can you let her know she is back in business.

  249. 249.

    Martin

    @Peke Daddy: I agree. But direct and focus need to happen. And Obama used rallies to a large degree to push things along, and those were not bottom up events. I noted the very good Atlanta rally. But smartphones were barely a thing in 2008. Social media is a much more challenging space to navigate than the not nearly as connected 2008 campaign was. And there’s a built-in trap to it. Young people are best suited to navigate that space, and the least likely to be listened to by guys like Axelrod.

    That they responded correctly to the Charlie xcx tweet is a small miracle. Someone in the campaign knew what that meant, and knew how to respond to it. That’s very encouraging. But it was also very risky. Charlie xcx is not a big gen z star. Young people know of her, but she’s kind of edgy. She’s not the wholesome Taylor Swift. Her songs are more about going to the club and doing drugs. It’s not a ‘campaign safe’ association, and the fact that the campaign took the risk is what got young people’s attention.

    And that’s my concern – will the campaign keep taking risks or will they go into ‘Pokemon go to the polls’ cringe mode because the Axelrods and Carvilles are calling the shots. Megan opening the Atlanta rally was a risk. That was encouraging. She is not a ‘campaign safe’ artist. I’m just not sure what we’re going to get here.

  251. 251.

    Tony Jay

    @TBone:

    Great-Aunt. Born on a Siamese riverboat in the Black Summer of 1912 while my maternal great grandparents were on the run from agents of the Belgian Bureaux Gris. When their hot-air balloon was shot down over the Hindu Kush she was found in the snow by a passing caravanserai of Buddhist Cossacks and sold to Russian aristocrats in the Grand Bazaar of Alma ATA. Rasputin received her as a Christmas present and kept her confined to a faberge egg in his chambers in the Winter Palace, feeding her slivers of raw bear meat and teaching her to throat-sing rude limericks about the crowned heads of Europe. Great-Grandfather traded her back from Lenin after the Revolution in exchange for a signed first edition of Constance Ruddigore’s Comprehensive Guide to The Erotic Rubbings of Ely Cathedral. She soon picked up the outer trappings of interwar bourgeois respectability, but frankly the damage was done. She liked her steak very tartar and could never abide the sight of an onion dome.

    You’d have liked her.

  253. 253.

    TBone

    @Tony Jay: omg I’M IN LOVE

    Travels With My Aunt!  Graham 💚

    My Great Aunt Odeena from Alaska had a barracuda bite scar on her heel. She gave me Afgani turquoise and many other treasures from here and abroad.  Married my war hero Great Uncle who she met on a flight for R&R during WWII. They built the road to Kandahar in the 1960s.

    She was a pistol!

    And now, it’s time to disturb the neighbors 🎶

     

    https://youtu.be/VdOkQ6THDVw?si=Iqf2Xxd_L4tuhwo5

    I meant to say silver treasure from across the sea

  254. 254.

    Tony Jay

    @Regnad Kcin:

    Her own Great Grandfather was a poor basket weaver in pre-Revolutionary Paris. Barely made enough ecus to feed his wife, mistresses and fourteen children, then heads began to roll and he ended up so rich he bought himself an estate on the Dordogne and died trying to demonstrate how you could mate Llamas with Emus and the chateau was repossessed by the Bourbons.

    She inherited his fast fingers, though.

  256. 256.

    Tony Jay

    @TBone:

    Wait until I tell you about third-cousin Rodney. Born blind, was accompanied until his death by a succession of Irish valets who would whisper descriptive haikus to him through an ear trumpet. Pioneered the addition of mustard to Beggley’s Prophylactic Gel (Australia’s premier sheep stimulant) and remains to this day the only white man to successfully achieve TKOs against three Popes in the Vatican’s Sacred Festival of the Square Ring.  

       We’re converts to the faith of the Ainu shamanists, though, so we’d never get permission from the Grand Drune. 

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