Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

I didn’t have alien invasion on my 2023 BINGO card.

ha ha ha! Nice try weird people.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Joe Biden can go out like FDR, not by dying in office, but by crushing the fascists.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

Every day Vance writes another chapter in the book called “Worst VP Pick Ever”.

Somebody needs to explain to DeSantis that nobody needs to do anything to make him look bad.

Another missed opportunity for Jamie Dimon to just shut the fuck up.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Taking the Campaign on the Road

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Taking the Campaign on the Road

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Thursday Morning Open Thread: Taking the Campaign on the Road

(Jack Ohman via GoComics.com)


the message this fall is absolutely going to be “we are normal people and our opponents are fucking freaks.”

[image or embed]

— b-boy bouiebaisse (@jbouie.bsky.social) Aug 6, 2024 at 9:41 AM

Reader Interactions

370Comments

  3. 3.

    Nelle

    The promise of normality after nine years of enduring weirdos may prompt those with who support opposing policies to vote for Harris-Walz.    Their slogan could be “We’ll leave you alone” and it could be a blow out election.

  4. 4.

    MomSense

    The contrast between the Trump Vance events and the Harris Walz events is so stark.  Harris and Walz are like the cool house on the street where all the kids want to play.
    The other is the one the kids walk in one time, sense the bad energy and never go back to.

  5. 5.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    That fish in the comic is the ugliest I’ve ever seen. And I’ve seen the coelocanth.

    ETA: And what an amazing sea of people. Probably more than were at Trump’s ::clears throat:: record-breaking inauguration.

  6. 6.

    3Sice

    Where’s catsup brain? Maybe getting his scalp tightened again, or suffering decompensation?

    prima donald would storm off the set of that TV show on the regular.

  8. 8.

    Ken

    @3Sice: Where’s catsup brain?

    Oh, it’s being asked, with the companion question “and why isn’t it being asked by the mainstream media”. As one Bluesky post I saw said, “If Biden disappeared for this long the media would be running his obituary.”

  9. 9.

    OzarkHillbilly

    This crowd for Harris in WI is rivaling Trump rallies.

    You mean they started leaving 5 mins after she began speaking?

  10. 10.

    Ken

    JD Vance’s Michigan rally could’ve been an email.

    It reminds me of the (apocryphal?) claim that in the 1970s, more than half the members of  Weather Underground were FBI agents. Except at the Vance rally it’s reporters and Secret Service.

  12. 12.

    thruppence

    I want to order my Harris / Walz yard signs, bumper stickers, etc. But their offerings are … limited. In my opinion, they need to hire some more imaginative graphic designers. I’ll be browsing Etsy and elsewhere to see what some more creative patriotic Americans are coming up with.

  13. 13.

    p.a.

    tRump locked away trying out various infantile nicknames for his opponents.  He can’t decide ’cause his asskissers tell him they’re all great.

  14. 14.

    eclare

    That stare on Harris’ face after she shut down the protestors…hoo boy, no wonder TCFG wants JV to debate her instead.

  15. 15.

    TS

    Vice President Kamala Harris has a slight lead over former president Donald Trump nationally, according to a poll released late Wednesday by Marquette Law School. Among registered voters, 52 percent said they supported Harris, while 48 percent said they favored Trump, the poll found. Among likely voters, 53 percent said they would vote for Harris, while 47 percent said they supported Trump.

    From the Washington Post – if trump were leading 53:47 the post would declare him as running away with the election – but for VP Harris – a slight lead!

  16. 16.

    randy khan

    Whatever genius decided to have Vance follow Harris and Walz around the swing states would have been fired by now by a normal campaign.  But a normal campaign wouldn’t have thought it was a good idea, either.  Forgetting that they could see Harris was getting rock star crowds, which made it risky in the first place, there’s no evidence that Vance is any kind of draw, and trailing after Harris and Walz makes him look pathetic.

    But I thank that person from the bottom of my heart.

  17. 17.

    3Sice

    That sweet, sweet Harris-Walz fund raising has to melt his noggin.

    He lashes out about “crooked” this and that because he would be pocketing all of it.

  18. 18.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @TS: From the Washington Post – if trump were leading 53:47 the post would declare him as running away with the election – but for VP Harris – a slight lead!

    Of course. They have to channel the mindset of dear leader if they’re to be ready for his restoration.

  20. 20.

    Jeffro

    Bouie ftw!

    In other news, I see that Bob (No)Good has filed to run again in VA-05 against his fellow wingnut John McGuire (who just primaried (No)Good out of his seat).

    May the GOP infighting here (and everywhere) continue for a very long time!

  21. 21.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @randy khan:and trailing after Harris and Walz makes him look pathetic.

    Feature, not a bug. trump is just putting vance in his place.

  23. 23.

    narya

    Because “not worrying” isn’t really in my toolkit, now we have to get all of these people to actually VOTE, and we have to keep the ratfkers from monkeying with things. That said, it’s so very nice to see the enthusiasm, and even nicer to see such an awesome team.

  24. 24.

    Ken

    @randy khan: Now I want a Wiseguy reboot, except instead of an FBI agent going deep undercover to infiltrate the mob, the lead is a Democratic operative embedded in the Trump campaign.

  25. 25.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Jeffro: In other news, I see that Bob (No)Good has filed to run again in VA-05 against his fellow wingnut John McGuire (who just primaried (No)Good out of his seat).

    So does that mean a third-party run. Is (No)Good a splitter? 

    Then let there be blood.

  26. 26.

    Jeffro

    @thruppence: have you seen the one where the ‘RI’ in ‘Harris’ and the ‘Z’ in ‘Walz’ (plus an extra Z) are highlighted in blue, to make ‘RIZZ’?

    that one would be just killer w/ the yoots…no cap ;)

  27. 27.

    rk

    I sound like a downer, but I’ve always hated this ” people I’d like to hang out with” nonsense.  We had normal with Joe Biden.  A hard working, sincere man who saved the country from vile monsters.  Despite this, a thankless populace was ready to hand the country back to the monsters because they couldn’t imagine hanging out with Joe. Honestly if this is the basis for decision making then people deserved Trump and whatever he unleashes. I’m happy and bitter at the same time and I did not think that was possible.

  29. 29.

    BritinChicago

    The “Thank You Joe” chant brought tears to my eyes. He’s a great President. I wish he had been young enough and strong enough to defeat TFG again but he’s not. Astonishingly, he was wise enough to recognize that (maybe it took him a while, but that’s understandable) and to set the party (and the country) on what is, I hope, the road to victory in November. Thank You, Joe!

  32. 32.

    Suzanne

    the message this fall is absolutely going to be “we are normal people and our opponents are fucking freaks.”

    He’s so right.
    And when pressed on it, they get freakier and scarier. Like, that escalated quickly.

  34. 34.

    gene108

    In terms of vibes, it seems the two people on the Democratic like each other, which is clearly not the case on the Republican side.

    In 2016, Trump seemed willing to tolerate being seen in public with Pence. That’s not true in 2024, where Trump seems to clearly loathe Vance and sent Vance out on a public humiliation tour following around the Harris-Walz campaign.

  35. 35.

    New Deal democrat

    The momentum continues:
    “ A new Marquette Law School Poll national survey finds Vice President Kamala Harris is the choice for president of 52% of registered voters and former President Donald Trump is the choice of 48%. Among likely voters, Harris receives 53% and Trump 47%. These results include voters who initially did not choose Harris or Trump but who were then asked whom they would vote for if they had to choose.”
     
     https://law.marquette.edu/poll/2024/08/07/mlspsc21-release/

    My favorite pollwatcher, Dan Guild, forecast this movement based on state level polls one week ago. In the past few days, he has highlighted how the polls show Harris consolidating the support of the Democratic base, something Biden had been unable to do.

  36. 36.

    Soprano2

    @Baud: I agree, her getting over 50% is a big deal, and 53-47 are good numbers in this environment. I think “we aren’t going back” and “mind your own business” are winning messages.

  40. 40.

    Suzanne

    @NotMax: I can’t figure out if that’s more insulting to Vance or Cybertruck owners. And that’s what makes it a good smackdown.

  42. 42.

    bbleh

    @3Sice: @Ken: WaPo says the Felon is going to hold a “news conference” this afternoon at Mag-a-Lardo.  I  may actually watch, just to see how he looks & sounds.  I may not be the only one …

  43. 43.

    TS

    @Baud:

    The over 50 percent figure is nice to see.

    Obviously not for the MSM – they’ve sure taken the hits lately with their VP choice ignored and the democratic campaign roaring along despite their best efforts to publicise the trump/vance lies.

  44. 44.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Soprano2: Considering the ticket is only a couple of days old and the momentum is clearly on our side, those are fantastic numbers!

    @TS: The very last reason I’m still hanging onto my NYT digital subscription is for access to the archives. Actively seeking alternatives. My local public library says they don’t have it. But I also have a card for the Philly main library system and there’s such a thing as a non-resident card for the New York system too. Surely one of those will have the digital resources.

  46. 46.

    oldgold

    Yesterday, how weird and creepy was JV Vance’s jet stalking stunt?

    It was a suspicions confirmed moment.

  48. 48.

    SFAW

    The Boston Glob‘s Always-Clueless Joan Vennochi today opines that selecting Walz as the VP pick “gives Trump campaign the reset it needed.” Because he’s a screaming lie-beral, apparently. [Sorry, I can only take so much of Vennochi, starting when she trashed-talked any/every strong woman who has run for anything in MA.]
    Some of the comments were the kind of shit you’d expect to see at Red Stoat (does that even still exist?) or from Shitgibbon. Did you know that Minneapolis burned entirely to the ground, and it was all Tim Walz’s fault?
    Fortunately, I’ve already taken my blood pressure meds today.

  49. 49.

    p.a.

    And we haven’t even gotten to the “Convention Bump”!  🤞🏻it’s not a bump but a takeoff.

    Real question for me is: can the Orange Shitstain & his campaign mount effective counterattacks without the aid of the MSM?

  50. 50.

    TS

    @bbleh:

    He will sound old, weird and angry. Wonder if he is going to fire Vance – or just rant and lie about his opposition.

  52. 52.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @randy khan:

    …and trailing after Harris and Walz makes him look pathetic.

    I don’t get that vibe at all. “Creepy” is what I get from Vance snuffling around after VP Harris. Really creepy

    ETA: But I just not that empathetic. I feel sorry for a “pathetic” person. I don’t feel sorry for JD Vance. I hope he steps on a rake.

  53. 53.

    Matt McIrvin

    @TS: That is correct, though: a given popular-vote lead for a Democrat is effectively smaller than for a Republican, because of the Republican EV advantage. A three-point lead nationwide for the Democratic candidate is effectively a tie, and a two-point lead is a loss.

  56. 56.

    TS

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    I gave up the NYT in 2016 but admit to hanging onto WaPo because I got such a cheap subscription I just hate to let that go. I let loose with my anti media rant on any political thread that dares to suggest anything positive about trump or negative about Harris/Walz. I also point and laugh when they try to suggest how the democratic campaign should be run.

  57. 57.

    Scout211

    Another group campaigning for Harris-Trump:

    Police officers who protected the U.S. Capitolduring an hours-long onslaught by Donald Trump supporters on Jan. 6, 2021, are hitting the road for Kamala Harris in hopes of keeping the former president, who is facing criminal charges for his efforts to stay in office by lying about the last election, from winning back the White House.

     
    Former Capitol Police officer Harry Dunn, former Capitol Police Seargant Aquilino Gonell, and current Metropolitan Police Department Officer Daniel “Danny” Hodges will be showing their support for Harris and presumptive vice presidential nominee Tim Walz in the coming days, joining up with the Democratic campaign for the first time since President Joe Biden dropped off the top of the ticket less than three weeks ago.

    Dunn and Hodges will be in Michigan this week, visiting Grand Rapids, Flint and Detroit, and the members of the group will travel elsewhere soon, including to North Carolina and Georgia, the Harris campaign told NBC News. During the trips, the Biden-Walz* [Harris-Walz] campaign said, the officers would meet with elected officials as well as community leaders to underscore what they call the urgent and immediate threat that Trump poses to democracy.

    *WTF NBC News!? The Biden-Walz campaign? Really?  I hope that gets fixed because that is not a typo.  That’s incompetence.

  60. 60.

    Rusty

    We already getting the attempted swift boating of Walz.  From the articles I’ve read there is nothing there, but expect the Republicans to lean into anyway since they don’t have anything else.  I guess we will see how many dozens of articles the NYT can spin from if before burying the fact the accusations are garbage in paragraph 14 of an article they bury 12 pages into the dead tree editing and never to see the front page of the digital edition.

  61. 61.

    Raven

    @NotMax: I’m glad for this but I can’t forget what assholes the guy I sent money to when his boat burned. Him and his buddies thought it was hilarious when they screamed shit a Biden when he visited. The captain moved his business to Oahu so he must have been insured.

  62. 62.

    cmorenc

    @randy khan:

     Forgetting that they could see Harris was getting rock star crowds, which made it risky in the first place, there’s no evidence that Vance is any kind of draw, and trailing after Harris and Walz makes him look pathetic.

    IMO the tactical goal of having Vance follow Harris around is to attempt to force media (particularly local media near Harris rally sites) to give some “both sides” air time to Vance’s remarks along with clips of Harris’s / Waltz’s remarks, rather than to attempt any sort of crowd size parallel.  This can potentially sort-of work as intended with radio media or even TV media if the focus is kept on Vance and not the tiny crowd size, but if the tiny crowd becomes the background focus – it can create a not-so-good shrinking contrast between Vance and Harris / Waltz.

  63. 63.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    As to “were is Trump” apparently doing You Tube commercials. I had one inflicted on me and beyond looking older than Biden,  Trump looked like someone had just punched him in the gut; sort of hunched over, kept on grimacing and his left eye was half closed. The commercial was one of his rants so I am not sure what the point of it was.

    I will say, after listening watching that commercial, people really need to shut the fuck up about Biden’s “bad” debate performance, there is no way in hell a normal human being could reply to the stream of random nonsense coming out Trump’s mouth these days.

  65. 65.

    divF

    @NotMax: Very nice.

    Trump will loom over Harris the way he did over Clinton only at his extreme peril.

    ETA: if the GoP replaces Trump, they could always go with Cthulhu / Vance 24.

  66. 66.

    eclare

    Hehehe…watching MJ on the DVR.  Mika took a long pause between saying “J” and “D” as if to make sure she didn’t say JV.

  67. 67.

    Kay

    Did anyone else watch the documentary “Shiny Happy People” about the far Right cult that spawned “The Duggars” (the reality tv show)?

    There is a long section on Megyn Kelly’s role in laundering the child abuse that went on in the cult. She was deployed to do an “interview” with the Duggar girls who had been molested by their older brother – the girls were coerced by the cult into laundering the accusations and Megyn Kelly was the “journalist” who took part in it. The older Duggar girl said the interview was like being violated again. It’s such a horrific memory that she asked the film makers to ask someone else about it – she can’t talk about it.

    But Megyn Kelly is just out there in society, accepted by other “journalists” and media people, making millions. She’s an absolute scumbag.

  68. 68.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Richard Nixon addressed the nation 50 years ago today, resigning the presidency effective at noon the next day. I hope at some point today or tomorrow we’ll have a thread on that transfer of power and share some memories.

  71. 71.

    BritinChicago

    @Soprano2: Those are great messages, and I sure hope they win it. (“Mind your own damn business”, as a way to frame the reproductive rights issue, seems to me a stroke of genius. And particularly good coming from Walz, whose own children were conceived with the help of IFV.)

    I can’t help wishing that the first message had been “We Won’t Go Back”: it has a much more chantable rhythm. (They needed to consult a poet.)

  73. 73.

    sdhays

    @cmorenc: If he could manage rallies that were bigger than what school board candidates can muster, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal.

  74. 74.

    Kay

    Cook Political Report\

    @CookPolitical

    Today, we’re making three changes to our Electoral College Ratings.
    AZ: Lean R to Toss Up NV Lean R to Toss Up GA: Lean R to Toss Up

    I like Cook because they’re slow to change a rating. Not hopium purveyors, for either side.

  75. 75.

    BritinChicago

    @TS: I’m pretty sure that now that JDV has been nominated by the Convention TFG cannot, as a legal matter, fire him. If he wants to, and realizes he can’t, and JDV doesn’t want to resign, there might be an interesting dustup….

  77. 77.

    K-Mo

    I think people are really sick of Trump and the whole discourse of the last several years.  Harris and Walz are such a breath of life

  78. 78.

    PST

    @TS:

    – if trump were leading 53:47 the post would declare him as running away with the election – but for VP Harris – a slight lead!

    Unfortunately, given the electoral college bias, Trump would be running away with it at 53:47, while Harris needs to win the popular vote by almost that amount to be safe. And that’s not taking into account skullduggery.

  79. 79.

    NotMax

    @Raven

    Wildfire yesterday in a gulch not very far from the abode. Sounded like every fire truck on the planet was screaming down the street fronting the property

    100% contained after several hours. 3½ hour power outage (apparently unrelated) nearly simultaneously.

  80. 80.

    BritinChicago

    @Rusty: Walz served in the NG until he was older than JDV is NOW. So he has a pretty devastating comeback available.

  81. 81.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @MomSense:

    The contrast between the Trump Vance events and the Harris Walz events is so stark.  Harris and Walz are like the cool house on the street where all the kids want to play. The other is the one the kids walk in one time, sense the bad energy and never go back to.

    TV :: Terrible Vibes

    HW :: Happy Warriors

  82. 82.

    JKC

    @narya: 100%. I still remember the Democratic hubris in some quarters (not here) back in 2016. We all know how that turned out.

  83. 83.

    Kay

    @cmorenc:

    I think it was too clever by half. The intent was to take Vance out of the crowd size competition by making the events “invite only” with reporters. It worked as far as it went. He did his Swiftboating with no pushback and they asked him softball questions like “how great are you, 1-10?” and then he told them they suck and he hates them- just their normal work day with the Trump campaign.

    But no one pays attention to this insider nuance other than junkies. All people in Michigan see is a little tiny group compared to a massive group.

  84. 84.

    catclub

    @Baud: The Predictit marketplace is interesting.

    Biden probability tanked well before he withdrew.

    Harris is now leading by  a bit.

     

    Just remember though, in 2016 Clinton was leading by a mile almost the entire year. In 2020 Biden was looking good most of the year.

  87. 87.

    catclub

    @K-Mo: I think people are really sick of Trump and the whole discourse of the last several years. Harris and Walz are such a breath of life.

     

    It is enough to make me wonder if Biden was _really_ the only one who could beat Trump in 2020. No do-overs in real life, though.

  88. 88.

    zhena gogolia

    @rk: It’s possible. I’m happy and bitter at the same time. What was there about the Biden administration that wasn’t normal?

  89. 89.

    Matt McIrvin

    @SiubhanDuinne: Watergate and Nixon’s resignation are some of the earliest news events I have memories of– very confused childhood memories. I thought the President was by definition a good guy so I couldn’t see how he could have done anything wrong. It turned out that was pretty much Nixon’s own reasoning too.

  90. 90.

    Kay

    It’s just heartwarming to witness a new generation of Republicans and political media energized and exciting about lying about someone’s military service again.

    Brings back memories. The most boring, conventional, unimaginative people in the world. The same play, over and over and over, separated by decades.

  91. 91.

    Jeffro

    This whole idea that trump/Vance will just use their corrupt election officials (and those officials’ refusal to certify) in the swing states makes me furious.

  92. 92.

    PAM Dirac

    @divF: I was home from college in the DC area. Some friends and I went down to the park across the street from the White House. It was VERY festive. In those days traffic still went through there and a moving van came by and the crowd went crazy. It felt damn good to chase that slime mold out. We still give one of my friends credit for starting the whole thing. On the night of the Watergate breakin we were at a party in Georgetown and my friend was trying to win the attention of a young woman and failing miserably. He gave up and was in a bad mood and wanted to leave. Our route home passed by CREEP (Committee to REElect the President) offices and he shouted out the window “NIXON is a DICK”. It was all down hill for Tricky Dick from there :-)

  94. 94.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Matt McIrvin: I was 16. Great admirer of the activists and protesters a few years older than me. Knew people with draft cards but never had one myself.

    I had this amazing feeling of wonder and euphoria about the country: “The hippies won.” That feeling didn’t last long.

  95. 95.

    artem1s

    @Matt McIrvin: 

    because of the Republican EV advantage

    Everyone should ignore national polls. They can’t predict anything about the EC. Any press or pundits looking at national polls are trying to start horse race narratives.
    State polls of likely voters to watch are PA and WI. NC is probably on the table and GA is definitely winnable with Harris at the top of the ticket. I don’t see MI flipping blue but it’s worth watching those polls too. I’m glad Harris threw some shade at the loudmouth astroturfers. Who knows how they will react to that. They may take it as a challenge and start JVStalking her but it’s more likely to turn normal voters in the crowd against them. Hard to say yet how that’s going to play out with the media. The GOP is going to find it hard to call her antisemitic/anti-Israel now. But that’s going to be a hard needle to thread for everyone who is up for re-election. I sure wish they’d spread some of their love around to the GOP rallies though.

  96. 96.

    sdhays

    @sdhays: And even that wouldn’t really matter if Trump was out having his own biggish rallies. But Trump is at home shit-dumping lunatic conspiracy whines on his money laundering platform instead. JV’s pathetic stalking tour is all the campaign can do this entire week.

  97. 97.

    Lyrebird

    @SFAW: Glad you took your BP medicine, and definitely laugh at @3Sice: “prima donald” – love it

    Re: countering bullsh_t about Tim Walz, does anyone have their go-to link from when they confirmed that one of the buildings burned down during BLM protests was set on fire by a white supremacist intentionally uh inflaming the situation?

  98. 98.

    Kay

    I have a contrarian view of Swiftboating and Kerry. I don’t think it’s why he lost. I think he lost because Republicans demonized gay people with same sex marriage and fundies came out in droves and the issue flipped enough Catholics to drag GWB over the finish line. The story is actually worse than Swiftboating – they won by smearing an entire group of people instead of one – people who weren’t public figures and running for office, people just trying to live.

  99. 99.

    Geminid

    @Jeffro: Maybe Denver Riggleman will step back into the 5th District arena, and make it a three-man race: McGuire vs. Good vs. Riggleman. Kinda like that shootout at the end of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

  100. 100.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: Trump may be the last presidential candidate old enough for the Vietnam draft to even be an issue. The rest are too young. That makes this kind of attack more of a stretch.

  102. 102.

    chemiclord

    Harris had to deal with some “Uncommitted Movement” hecklers in Michigan, and I don’t think she handled it well, at least for the sake of appearances.

    On one hand, I get it. The people doing this are bad faith actors; people who would be Republicans if the GOP wasn’t quite so racist, people who have happily thrown LGBT+ people under the bus as they side with the GOP on many social policy matters.

    But growling down Arab-Americans protesting for the sake of the Palestinian people is not going to be a good look right now.​

  103. 103.

    Belafon

    @TS: Sadly there’s some truth to that. If Trump were ahead 53-47, he’d probably be in 400EV territory. We’re all going to be wondering if she’s going to need Georgia or not.

  104. 104.

    zhena gogolia

    @chemiclord: It was a perfectly good look. They don’t have the right to constantly interrupt a speaker that thousands of other people want to listen to.

    ETA: And please show me the video of the last Trump rally they interrupted.

  105. 105.

    NotMax

    Retreating back to the cozy watch of A Family at War on Prime. After a handful of the episodes during season 2 in B&W they’re back to color in season 3.

    Were it not for the aid of subtitles some of the Liverpudlian dialogue would be near incomprehensible to this Yank.

  106. 106.

    Ramalama

    @thruppence: someone posted a schoolhouse rock graphic of Harris walk 2024 and offered it for free. It’s so great I downloaded it even though I’m in Canada and can’t use it to sway any voters up here other than the five I’ve harassed already to register to vote from abroad. If I can make it to my desk, I might be able to locate the link if I can get out of bed this morning. Maybe it’s an easy thing to look up?

  107. 107.

    WereBear

    @rk: On the other hand, we see him stepping aside because he and his opponent were from a previous era, and this one was upon us.

    This is when you tell people, “Go one without me.” But in this case, we won’t.

    He’ll get a lot done in ONE term. That’s what the historians will remember. Also, we can call corporate media “yellow journalism” which has a period ring to it.

    If they had covered Biden the way they covered Trump, it might be different. But he is a great President because he didn’t listen to his ego. And to be honest, I don’t want him to die in office. Let him go back to his retirement.

    It was as much worry about him, as the election, in our house.

  109. 109.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It’s the NYTimes. If it hadn’t have been this it would have been something else. It’s what they do.

    I’m glad we’re not ignoring it though – Walz is right– the timeline doesn’t support the accusation. Republicans are lying and political media are doing their blockhead obtuse act where they pretend they have to accept as true anything Vance says. They know it’s not true.

    It’s worth fighting about it just because they shouldn’t get away with it. I was glad to see Dem electeds who are veterans defending him.

  110. 110.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: I think the effect of the Swift Boat campaign was to neutralize a draft-dodger attack on Bush (that and Dan Rather’s fake document leak). Bush had used connections to get out of being drafted to Vietnam? Well Kerry… something something, there was something bad, it’s too confusing for me to follow, let’s just all drop that.

  113. 113.

    oldster

    @zhena gogolia:

    Agreed. Not only was KH’s response good, but it is exactly what I wanted to say to all of the well-meaning college kids at their “encampments” this spring.

    You’re free to speak. You’re also responsible for the consequences of your speech. And this speech, at this time and place, only helps Trump. Which in turn, only hurts the Palestinians that you claim to support.

  114. 114.

    Ramalama

    @Kay: and when Kerry mentioned the Gay Cheney, daughter working for the Bush Cheney ticket, Hell hounds were able to go after him for how daring to bring up Dick’s daughter.

  115. 115.

    Quantum man

    I think having Vance stalk Harris is a dominance effort. Make her look incapable of stopping him.

  116. 116.

    CaseyL

    @rk: ​
    @zhena gogolia: ​

    Remember Sturgeon’s Law: “90% of everything is crap.” That includes people.

    Remember “the average IQ is 100.” That means half the population has an IQ under 100. Low IQ doesn’t mean “stupid,” but it does mean an inability to do complicated abstract thought, or make connections between things not directly related.

    Half the population are unable to think their way out of a wet paper bag, and are just plain crappy people.

    And those people vote. And respond to pollsters.

  117. 117.

    Leto

    @eclare: I saw that and immediately said, “Oh shit son, you done fucked up!” Big Mamala Energy there. Millions of us saw that and immediately said, “It wasn’t me!” Out of reflex. If you’ve ever wondered what an NCO stare looks like? Yup, there you go.

  118. 118.

    Kay

    @chemiclord:

    I think this is a mischaracterization of what happened. Social media flattening and hunger for outrage hits strikes again – on BOTH sides, pro Pali and anti protestors. They’re both ginning up discord.

    There’s more to this story. First, Harris asked them to stop twice and they didn’t. It’s perfectly acceptable to demand they stop disrupting after that – the alternative is she just turns her rally over to them.  Second, the “official” Arab American group in Michigan fighting for human rights for Palestinians is called the “Uncommitted Movement” (the two leaders were on the Progressives for Harris call if you’re interested). Harris spoke with them prior to rally. They were pleased with the dialogue and felt they were heard. Third, a Michigan  Arab American political leader who refused to endorse Biden because he said Biden had insulted them by sending staff to soothe them has met with Harris and endorsed her yesterday on his FB page. That’s the actual Arab American-Michigan continegent, not the hecklers.

    The idea that Harris somehow alienated Arab Americans in Michigan is the opposite of what happened but it’s what you would think if you only saw the 3 second clip.

  119. 119.

    WereBear

    @TS: The plain words of the conventions are “death or declination.”

    Will Vance ever quit? Why should he? He eradicated any sense of shame already.

    That keeps a person away from money.

    Him taking his little girl’s chocolate milk away made me furious. You can tell he’s a mean little scut, and all the time, with women and children.

    Which reminds me, we are also running a First Gentleman who has taken on Firsting duties with a speech about the limits of toxic masculinity? Can this ticket GET any better?

    Wait… Walz holds the Bipartisan Congressional Trap Shooting award several years in a row. I think he challenged his opponent to out-shoot him.

    DAYUM. I love it.

  121. 121.

    Suzanne

    I don’t know how to link to tweets, but Scott Kelly did a great job smacking down Vance’s bullshit. I screenshotted and shared on my socials, but I can’t do that here.

  123. 123.

    schrodingers_cat

    @zhena gogolia: Agreed. And Genocide Joe has seamlessly morphed into Killer Kamala in those circles as we knew would happen.

    KH had also met privately with the leaders of the Vote Uncommitted Movement before the rally. And yet she was interrupted, repeatedly.

  124. 124.

    WereBear

    @TS: You could do what the right wing did, and complain.

    Only we will send them an email every time you find bad journalism. Probably a daily summary would be helpful to them.

  125. 125.

    hobbitdreams

    @zhena gogolia:

    Agree. She affirmed their right to speak (“Every voice matters”) AND she asserted her right to speak at that moment. The fuckers were not operating in good faith, anyhow

    ETA: I thought I had read yesterday that Harris had met with the Uncommitted folks in Michigan, but strangely, it didn’t come up when googling. Only lots of criticisms of her actions from RW sources. Glad to have it confirmed that she had. So those were bad faith fuckers, for sure.

  127. 127.

    Kay

    @chemiclord:

    Both sides are mischaracerizing it to promote their position. The pro Pali contingent are insisting they are the spokespeople for Arab Americans in Michigan and Harris insulted them – not true.

    The anti protestor “own the Left” people are insisting Harris “smacked down” the pro Palestinian people because, yeah, she owned our enemies! High five!

    Both sides are bullshit and outrage bait. What happened is she mended fences with Arab Americans – the uncommitted movement leaders and elected Arab Americans leaders and she told hecklers to cut it out. But that’s not a good Twitter hit if you have a million followers and an axe to grind.

  128. 128.

    bbleh

    @narya: yes yes yes!  We need to vote, and we need to do everything we can to get others to vote!  Donating, volunteering, even just badgering your friends to make a plan.  All the enthusiasm in the world is for nothing unless it’s turned into votes.

    @zhena gogolia: the crowd there certainly thought it was a good look, just sayin’.  And apart from that, I think it’s good for her to show her tough side, cuz everybody knows girls aren’t as tough as boys! /s

  129. 129.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Matt McIrvin: Bingo. The goal was to re-write history. It was SHRUB who was the codpiece war hero [he was a coke-head who never showed up for work, even after being placed in a “champagne” outfit with other nepo shits]. It was Kerry who was the commie pinko who was against killin’ commies [he was a true war hero who volunteered to serve and led men in combat, was himself wounded in combat, and likely actually did kill some communists].

    I lost friends over their responses to the Swiftboating – and I didn’t even like Kerry.

  130. 130.

    WereBear

    @Kay: Yes. And yes. And, yes.

    A Well-Trained Wife: My Escape from Christian Patriarchy just came out this week. Horrifying.

    In case anyone wants to read a memoir about the real thing.

  131. 131.

    Baud

    @rk:

    People don’t deserve Trump just because they’re shallow, but you’re correct in that you shouldn’t take people too seriously when they emote about how much they care about the issues if they are making election decisions based on shallow considerations.

  132. 132.

    Suzanne

    @Kay: Thanks for the context.

    Xhitter amplifies the fringiest, cringiest, most obnoxious voices much of the time. And it is designed to do so. Melon Husk wants to tear America apart. Should be approached with extreme caution. There’s good stuff but it is a very distorted reflection of reality.

  133. 133.

    WereBear

    @SiubhanDuinne: I am reading Joe Conason’s latest (and he’s a big Perlstein fan) which is
    The Longest Con: How Grifters, Swindlers, and Frauds Hijacked American Conservatism.

    One step was people who admired Nixon, for almost getting away with it. And we still have them trying.

  134. 134.

    Baud

    @Quantum man:

    If Walz stalked Trump in the same way, would you find that dominant or pathetic behavior?

    No reason to apply different rules to one side.

  135. 135.

    Kay

    @WereBear:

    They should follow up with how Mike Huckabee and Megyn Kelly conspired to violate the Duggar girls again with a fake Megyn Kelly interview. Why is this woman still part of polite society? She’s a gross grifter who abused girls as part of a Right wing cover up. It’s not a crime (as far as we know) but she’s somehow credible still? She’s Alex Jones.

  136. 136.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: To a lot of privileged folks a vote is another way to express themselves (whether it is fealty to their group, or their own purity to vote 3rd party). That’s why they sneer when you talk about incremental change.

  138. 138.

    Belafon

    @catclub: I think a lot of them could have beaten Trump. I think what Biden provided in 2020 was someone who would unite Democrats, being a white male that appealed to other whites and minorities.

    I don’t think Bernie would have beaten Trump.

  140. 140.

    Baud

    @schrodingers_cat:

    There are people like that. I think they’re just a fraction of the universe if shallow voters. Most are people who operate on “vibes” rather than a thoughtful policy agenda.

  142. 142.

    p.a.

    tRump news conference 2pm.  Looks like his team has come up with some insults he can pronounce without stumbling.  Or maybe reprising the hit, “immigrants immigrants oooga oooga.”

  143. 143.

    Kay

    @Suzanne:

    There are kind of touchstones so you can check veracity. As I wrote, the two leaders of the “Uncommitted Movement” are the serious activists who electeds are meeting with. If anyone is interested in their views they were on the Progressives for Harris call. They’re the spokespeople for the Arab American resistance to the human rights catastrophe in Gaza, not random hecklers or Twitter outrage merchants – not the “own the Left” assholes on Twitter OR the Left assholes. Neither group are the serious people Biden and now Harris were/are talking to. Harris made inroads, quietly. She’s gonna be fine in Michigan.

  144. 144.

    Geminid

    @Belafon: Joe Biden won 306 Electoral votes in 2020, with a 4.5% advantage in the popular vote (51.3 to 46.8%).

    In 2016, Trump won 304 EVs while being down by 2.1% in the popular vote. So it seems the “tipping point” may be 4 or 5% of the popular vote.

    I did some electoral vote figuring a couple a couple days ago and for simplicity’s sake stipulated that Harris would carry Michigan. In that case, Harris would win if she carried Pennsylvania and one of either Georgia, Arizona, North Carolina or (I think) Wisconsin

    Ed. This is also assuming Harris and Trump split two odd EVs in Maine and Nebraska like last time.

  146. 146.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: Yep. Their vibes trump everything else. They are fickle. Its a mistake to think that only Rs have this problem. Our side has plently of privileged people who operate on the basis of their vibes. Their vibes told them Biden was too old so he had to go.

  150. 150.

    Belafon

    @chemiclord: She’s pointing out exactly what needs to be pointed out: Who are you going to choose at the end, Harris or Trump? Who is going to be worse for the Palestinians and Israelis?

  151. 151.

    rk

    @CaseyL:

    It’s exhausting to always have to appeal to these people who have disproportionate influence on our lives.

    The biggest mistake the founders of this country made was the electoral college. Because of it democrats have to chase after some of the dumbest people in the country every single election. We have to listen to what every rural hick and suburban twit in PA says (I live in PA and am familiar with suburban twits). This time we seem to have hit the sweet spot, but it’s an  endless battle.

  153. 153.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay: ​
     

    I have a contrarian view of Swiftboating and Kerry. I don’t think it’s why he lost. I think he lost because Republicans demonized gay people with same sex marriage and fundies came out in droves and the issue flipped enough Catholics to drag GWB over the finish line. The story is actually worse than Swiftboating – they won by smearing an entire group of people instead of one – people who weren’t public figures and running for office, people just trying to live.

    I remember when the GOP launched the Swiftboating in 2004. Back then they had daily tracking polls, and you could watch Kerry’s lead shrink, day by day, while the Kerry campaign didn’t respond. And by the time they finally did, they were behind in the polls and never caught up.

    There’s no question that the Bush anti-gay campaign drove turnout, but I think it took both that and the Swiftboating to beat Kerry.

  155. 155.

    BlueGuitarist

    @Kay:

    interesting, as always.

    Observing the right’s success using referenda for GOTV in 2004, Acorn used initiative campaigns to raise the minimum wage for both the policy goal and GOTV, which got them destroyed.

  156. 156.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Belafon: I don’t know if Biden was the only guy, but 2020 was a really exceptional case in that people were scared and exhausted and needed a reassurance candidate, and Biden stepped into that role well

    This year, the problem was that people still generally felt bad–part of that is Republicans stinking up the national mood, but it was shaping up to be a “change” election, and in the absence of anything better, people were starting to think the Trump years weren’t so bad (before the pandemic at least, and many Americans don’t seem to associate that with Trump). We seem to have threaded this needle where we can run a sort of change candidate as an incumbent party.

  157. 157.

    Kay

    One of the spokespeople for the Uncommitted Movement is Abbas Alawieh. I don’t recall the woman who is co-leader’s name. Anyway, look for that movement among the outrage merchants – if they’re not involved it’s not the Arab American movement for human rights for Palestinians in Michigan.

    I have no problem with protestors and I think some of the criticism of them is bad faith, coming from people who simply find this issue inconvenient or uncomfortable so will accept NO raising of it all, but Harris is not blowing off anyone. She told hecklers to be quiet. There’s no alternative. What’s she going to do -stand there silently are her own rally and let them dominate it? No one would do that. It’s nuts.

  158. 158.

    BR

    I’m interested in what you’re all hearing from the normies and politically disengaged or independent voting folks you know about Harris/Walz.

  160. 160.

    tam1MI

    @rk: I’m happy and bitter at the same time and I did not think that was possible.

    I know EXACTLY how you feel.

  162. 162.

    Soprano2

    @bbleh: So has any news organization been doing a countdown of how many days it’s been since his last one? I highly doubt it, they don’t care about him doing news conferences when they can get leaks from his campaign workers instead. They’re already starting to complain about Harris not doing news conferences for them.

  163. 163.

    twbrandt

    @chemiclord: I can’t find it right now, but I saw on bluesky that the Harris campaign reached out to the leaders of the Uncommitted movement and there has been dialog between the two. In any case, the crowd there loved her response.

  165. 165.

    zhena gogolia

    @BR: I’m a little worried that one of my normie friends who loved Biden now doesn’t want to talk about the issue at all. She hates Trump, so I think it’s okay, but I sense unease about Kamala. But it’s one person in a blue state, so no big deal. But another friend who wanted Biden to drop out doesn’t like Kamala. (His candidates were Sherrod Brown or Pritzker.)

  166. 166.

    BlueGuitarist

    @Kay:

    do you, or others here, have any insight re Alisha Farooqi who is running in a flippable Michigan State House district (57) in Macomb County (Sterling Heights) ?
    District overlaps swing R-held US house seat MI-10.

  167. 167.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    @New Deal democrat:

    Actual poll numbers are shit and polling is forever broken for a number of factors, but trendlines tend to be real.

    That said, the news orgs who keep lavishly funding this failing industry are merely watching a feedback loop and failing in the essential purpose of their industry – to provide actual information on policy and effects of policy.

    They also fail by doing breathless “scoops” of uncorroborated, anonymous anecdotes without burning sources later found to be bad or seeking several data points to indicate correctness before publishing.  They also overly on anonymous sources for petty detail.

  168. 168.

    K-Mo

    @catclub: 2020 was so strange with the pandemic raging.   But generally, I think we needed Joe’s trusted presence to beat the incumbent.

  169. 169.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    That’s fair. I was less plugged into the Swift Boating because I wasn’t “on the internet” for politics at that point in my life. It really changes your perspective. I was 100% focused on Ohio and with the same sex marriage ban amendments I could feel it slipping away. Republicans say it too. They say they flipped 150k Catholics from Kerry to Bush and that was it in Ohio. They bragged about it.

    I actually liked Kerry a lot. He grew on me. He had this nice self deprecating humor – humility. He knew he was no working class hero and he didn’t try to pretend he was. I admire that fidelity to self. Take him or leave him he was what he was. He also gets no credit for increasing the youth vote but he was the one who started that, not Obama.

  170. 170.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Soprano2: The Coup York Times should put up a tracker of how many elected Republicans in what positions announced they’re not supporting Trump.

    It has to be higher than the number of Ds that were doubting Biden in public, giving rise to wall-to-wall coverage.

  171. 171.

    M31

    I bet if Walz stalked Trump in Montana this week he’d draw more people. Do a trap shooting meet with some rancher dudes/dudettes (bet there are some good shooter dudettes up there) and Tester. LOL it’d be hilarious.

  173. 173.

    Suzanne

    @BR: I am out of town this week, getting home on Saturday. I’m looking forward to hearing from my neighbors and coworkers, too.

    SuzMom has already asked me to help her figure out how to donate. (She’s not so good at the internet.)

  177. 177.

    Matt McIrvin

    @BR: My family include a lot of very liberal East Coast people of the sort who were all in for Bernie in 2016, and they had been utterly despondent about Biden and are thrilled to see Harris in there. No one upset about the switch as far as I can tell.

  178. 178.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Matt McIrvin: ​
     

    Trump may be the last presidential candidate old enough for the Vietnam draft to even be an issue. The rest are too young. That makes this kind of attack more of a stretch.

    I was born in 1954, and it was clear before they did the lottery that they weren’t going to draft anyone from my year. I don’t know if they drafted any 1953 babies, but if so, 1953 kids would have been the youngest people drafted, and they’re all over 70 now. If not, 1952 kids would have been the last, so a year older.

  180. 180.

    Soprano2

    @K-Mo: I also think people want to move on from the Covid years. Both TCFG and Biden are associated with the Covid years in a way Harris isn’t. It may be subconscious, but I think that’s part of it. Plus yeah, completely sick of the Orange Fart Cloud and his bloviations.

  182. 182.

    WereBear

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:  “The hippies won.” That feeling didn’t last long.

    But the hippies did win. it just took this long

    Recently Mr WB and I watched Easy Rider and some people might remember the movie and remember the ending. (Now, you can view it on Youtube with a violence warning.) I certainly do, even though it was years after (film came out in 1969) that I managed to see it.

    That last scene haunted me, because it was very close to my own experience as someone who didn’t fit. Helped drive my determination to not live around people like that any more

    So, I figured took it this long for enough people to stop thinking that way, to make the transformation possible. It also helps that the Republicans, three times in a row, picked a raging malignant narcissist, who can’t help but show the true face of their party.

    And we’ve all seen them, up close. So much that the apathetics & low-info voters got involved. We are bringing them out, or at least switching their direction.

    But that is how deeply embedded it still is because we’re still “divided country.” But if we need the RIZZ we can bring it.

    Often, tipping points aren’t hidden at all. In essence, this might have been an inevitable Change election because these voters — these policy, what policy? voters — have seen Biden and Trump for three Presidential terms. Each.

    For them, we need shiny objects. Obviously. We never thought Trump was shiny, but I keep telling you: they had the “Kamala You’re Fired” signs at the rally because all this time he’s been coasting on that damn reality show.,

    These are low-info political people. They have to be part of our coalition, because look what they get up to when not supervised. Dear Lawd.

  184. 184.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    We were following this really closely in Ohio. I could probably still find emails where we were “oh, shit. This is bad” :)

    If Phil Burress has his way, Ohio will be a battleground this fall for more than just the presidential candidates. It will be the scene of a moral struggle over the future of marriage, an institution on the front lines of a culture war that some conservatives want to wage in this election year.

    Burress, a conservative activist in Cincinnati, is laboring to put before Ohio’s voters a state constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriages. If he succeeds, Ohio will become one of about a dozen states where this issue has been muscled onto the November ballot.

     

     

    Ah, the relative innocence of pre social media politics. I didn’t know anything about the exit polls. I knew he would lose by 3 PM. It was straightforward! It might have been better.

  185. 185.

    JML

    @Kay: One of my first political memories was going to a Mondale rally in a university gym and there were literally three Reagan supporters up in the rafters cat-calling Mondale throughout his speech, and you could see Fritz starting to burn a little as they kept taunting and yelling. Finally, he stopped his speech, looked up in the corner and said “aw, shut the hell up, will ya?” and the entire gymnasium erupted with a bunch of stoic norski screaming and hollering and ready to load up the torches and pitchforks, with tar and feathers on standby. Turned the room from being a fairly normal rally to absolutely blowing the roof off.

    (notably, the reagan people sat quietly for the rest of the speech, once Mondale could be heard again…)

  186. 186.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: I think it’s amazing that Kerry was even able to keep it close in that environment. He genuinely almost won– it was almost as close as 2000 and we were all operating under post-9/11 wartime rules at that point. A priori you’d expect a Bush landslide. It was about a year out from things getting bad enough for most people to notice.

  187. 187.

    Baud

    @Soprano2:

    That may be a lot of it, as unfair as it is, because I think if the roles were reversed, a Republican incumbent in Biden’s position would be extremely popular.

    We’ve still got a long way to go before our people are considered equal.

  190. 190.

    BR

    Oh man, Trump is going to have a press conference today. What a mistake. The pressure got to him.

  192. 192.

    Old School

    @Suzanne:

    I don’t know how to link to tweets, but Scott Kelly did a great job smacking down Vance’s bullshit. I screenshotted and shared on my socials, but I can’t do that here.

    Here you go:

    You know what really bothers me @JDVance, is when you attack a fellow veterans military service. I respect your service and the service of @GovTimWalz and all of those honorably discharged. He was eligible for retirement after 24 years and submitted his retirement paperwork before his unit received orders (or even warning orders) to deploy and then he continued his service as a member of congress. If they needed him to stay in his unit there is a mechanism called, “stop-loss.” Look it up. As a corporal with 4yrs of service, I highly doubt the USMC, “asked,” you to go to Iraq. They most likely, “ordered” you to go to Iraq and had you refused, you would have been thrown in the brig. Release your military record to prove the USMC, “asked” you to go. “Raise your hand if you want to go to Iraq.” It’s laughable to those of us who have served. If you win, you are next in line to be Commander in Chief and need to earn the respect of all who serve, and this is not how you do it. https://t.co/F0PS3wQbGY— Scott Kelly (@StationCDRKelly) August 7, 2024

  193. 193.

    zhena gogolia

    @BR: Yes, that one is into politics. But I couldn’t believe he wanted Brown (and didn’t seem to know he had floated a presidential run already).

  195. 195.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    The same people who thought Nancy Pelosi and Obama are bad at Democratic politics now think Sherrod Brown is bad at Democratic politics. I guess holding the senate isn’t so important after all.

  200. 200.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @WereBear:

    Glad you mentioned the Conason book. It’s been in my Kindle queue for two or three weeks but I haven’t yet read it. Will remedy that soon; thanks for the reminder.

  201. 201.

    Kay

    Bet on Brown over his Twitter detractors. He’s been running and winning in Ohio for 40 years.

  202. 202.

    Baud

    @schrodingers_cat: But he was polling below where he should have been if the world was fair even before the attacks began.

     

    @Kay:

    I think every Democrat is excellent at politics and always defer to them on strategy, whatever I may personally feel.

  205. 205.

    danielx

    @Quantum man:

    Yeah, but it makes him look weird and creepy, not that he didn’t have those covered already. “Stalking” not being viewed as positive activity, at least for people who aren’t weird and creepy.

  207. 207.

    Kay

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:

    Charisma? As I said I ended up liking him. He never pretended to be Mr. Working Class. That never works anyway. People recognize authenticity.

    Liberals wouldn’t admit GWB was popular. I know we think he shouldn’t have been, but he was. Kerry did well against a popular incumbent. Good job. It all went to shit two years later for Bush, but timing is everything, right?

  208. 208.

    Matt McIrvin

    @schrodingers_cat: my feel looking at the wider online progressive left world is that Israel/Palestine-based attacks on Harris have much less traction than against Biden, especially since she picked Walz. It’s perhaps not fair but it’s the way it is.

  209. 209.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @p.a.:

    Maggie Haberman will be there with a raft of tough, probing, incisive questions for him, right?

    RIGHT??

  210. 210.

    WereBear

    @Kay: I watched an interview with the FTC director Biden appointed, and she is so sharp and going after so many things Trump let go.

    Remember how crappy everything was during 2020, with avalanches of mail and phone scammers? No customer service, disrupted mail, NO TP.

    All Trump.

  211. 211.

    slightly_peeved

    @gene108:It’s almost like the Democratic candidates are interested in other people as people, rather than seeing every relationship in terms of how it personally benefits them.You know, because they’re not weird.​​

  214. 214.

    danielx

    @BR: ​
     Ordinarily that would be a hard pass for me, but in the light of recent events I may have to at least take a look. It’s not all that often you get to see a candidate for the highest office in the land melt down completely.

  215. 215.

    Anyway

    @WereBear: I watched an interview with the FTC director Biden appointed, and she is so sharp and going after so many things Trump let go.

    Silicon valley billionaires hate Lina Khan and have their knives out. They’re working hard to elect Dotard.

  216. 216.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: If Bush had been up for reelection in the environment of fall 2001, maybe even 2002, he could have gotten a Reagan-sized landslide.

  217. 217.

    oldgold

    There is some buzz this morning that Trump needs to do something big to reset this election.

    Is there any possibility that JV Vance gets tossed? This morning they had a segment on Morning Joe exploring this idea. It seems that post-convention this would be a big lift.

  218. 218.

    RevRick

    @rk: Over at LGM they talk about the Ariane Grande voters, who are those who know as much about politics and government as you and I do about Ariane Grande. I know she’s a pop singer, but I couldn’t tell you what her hit songs were and I would be hard put to identify her. Most people aren’t as dialed in as us.

    Think of it like this: Herbert Hoover went from being the rock star of the 20s, who won a landslide in 1928, to an anathema, who lost in a landslide in 1932. And FDR won, in part, by criticizing Hoover for running up deficits! And then, early on in his administration, ended up continuing many of Hoover’s policies!

  220. 220.

    slightly_peeved

    @Geminid: ​
     
    Those values aren’t hard and fast; 538 calculated the difference between polling and the EC was down to about 1% for Biden before he dropped out.

    I mean it’s always a risk, but I don’t think it’s set in stone.

  222. 222.

    BR

    @oldgold: ​

    I bet Trump says some not great things about Vance at the press conference. He can’t help himself. But I bet the legal complexity of dumping him will keep Vance on the ticket.

  223. 223.

    bbleh

    @Soprano2: FIRST she doesn’t pick the OBVIOUSLY right VP nom, THEN she doesn’t schedule news conferences when she should … see THIS is what happens when you let wimmin think they should be allowed to make serious decisions!!

    We’d be foolish to forget the built-in bias of the Boys on the Bus.

  225. 225.

    Kay

    @WereBear:

    I think Trump should get  blame because he takes credit for everything, so he should get blame, but I think most of that was due to the pandemic and I don’t know how a Democrat woul dhave handled the suplly chain disruptions, problems with staffing for the Postal Service, etc.

    I blame Trump (and all Republicans) for the excess deaths in the pandemic. I think they killed thousands of people with lies. But the Postal Service is this massive logistical operation – I was a postal manager – the pandemic knocked them on their ass and it was hard to get up. True for so many service/distibution industries.

  226. 226.

    sixthdoctor

    @WereBear: Whenever I see a report about Trump being unhappy I want the Great Santini to run up to him and start bouncing a basketball off his head yelling “LET’S SEE YOU CRY, COME ON, LET’S SEE YOU CRY!” I hope he lives a nice long life in a jail cell starting next year.

  227. 227.

    Matt McIrvin

    @oldgold: Trump isn’t out there campaigning all day. He may not be physically able to, and he’s relying on Vance as a surrogate, which is one of the reasons they’re suggesting Harris might not really be the nominee, to level the playing field and justify Trump not bothering to campaign against her.

    They were relying on Biden not being able to campaign super hard either, with Vance as the counter to Harris, but the rug got pulled.

    Anyone they swap in might be less of a mutant creepazoid than Vance but they’ll still have this problem.

  228. 228.

    Baud

    No candidate has ever gotten more than 50% of the popular vote and lost the EC. It could mathematically happen, of course, but it hasn’t yet.

  229. 229.

    Kay

    @TBone:

    I wanted your governor but local Democrats here really, really like Walz. I’m curious to see what upper midwest/Great Lakes polling looks like in a few weeks. I think Omnes and Mousebumples might have been right about Walz.

  230. 230.

    Jinchi

    @BR: ​
     But I bet the legal complexity of dumping him will keep Vance on the ticket.

    A big part of TFG’s personality is being able to humiliate allies and have them grovel before him afterwards. I don’t think he’ll ever get rid of the couch surfer.

  231. 231.

    Geminid

    @slightly_peeved: Yes, these values are not hard and fast. I put that out there anyway, as a counter to a common belief that a Democrat needs to win a 6% advantage in the popular vote to carry the Electoral College.

  232. 232.

    Captain C

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Anyone they swap in might be less of a mutant creepazoid than Vance but they’ll still have this problem.

    Assumes facts not in evidence, given the composition of today’s GQP

    ETA:  Regarding the ‘less of a mutant creepazoid’ bit.  They’ll have the icky weirdo problem no matter what.

  233. 233.

    3Sice

    Is there going to be a video feed, or just audio like that FOX town hall? Because that was weird.

  236. 236.

    TBone

    @Kay: I’m glad of the choice made.  I think Walz is exactly the right guy for this campaign.  I didn’t have a preference, but I didn’t enjoy seeing so much tearing down of Shapiro along the way.  I’m glad he’s still my Governor, he’s doing great things here in the Commonwealth.

  239. 239.

    Kay

    @TBone:

    I want to make sure Harris gets credit though. Harris was holding Biden’s white vote share prior to her Walz pick. I think everyone was surprised by that, but it’s true. He may be the white man whisperer but she was doing pretty well herself. But he’s great. I like his voice. I think that’s undercounted in peoples impression. Both Harris and Walz have nice even, low voices. I hate Trump’s voice. It sounds to me like a car alarm.

  242. 242.

    Suzanne

    @Kay:

    Liberals wouldn’t admit GWB was popular. I know we think he shouldn’t have been, but he was. 

    Agree. We underestimate the appeal of our opponents all the time, because we find them unappealing.

    I think this is actually a part of the generational divide….. the older cohort seems to have stronger memories of a monoculture and shared experiences and therefore seems slightly more befuddled (like John was saying the other day) when Republicans behave in the ways they do. The younger cohort doesn’t have misty watercolor memories of “sane Republicans”, or “everybody in the neighborhood going to the same church”, or “the doctors and the plumbers living in the same neighborhood”.

  243. 243.

    topclimber

    @PST: Obama won 53-47 in 2008 and beat the crap out of McCain in the EC by 2-1.

    They say history repeats itself. I hope they are right.

  244. 244.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Geminid: I think we need to being thinking in terms of trying for a landslide.*  “Let’s bury the fuckers.”

    *Odds of getting one aren’t that high, but why not try for one?  It’s more fun than just trying to eke out a win.

  245. 245.

    Baud

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    What does that mean in practical terms? Like, I would love to get Texas, but I don’t want the campaign to spend a lot of money there.  Texans would need to do it on their own.

  246. 246.

    WereBear

    @SiubhanDuinne: I am doing a Balloon Juice book guest post when I’m done, but it’s audio so I’m going slower that I usually would. Comments will be welcome welcome.

    Got it through my Everand account, which is how I budget most of the books I read. Anyone who likes audiobooks should check them out, they have the latest releases. And a big back catalog.

    For books, the joy goes the other way, in that they have lots of good older stuff, like horror from the 70’s & 80’s, obscure military analysis and memoirs, and historical documents, like the

    Lots of romance in every conceivable form. I have learned a lot just from the titles and covers that come up in a search.

    Also, good track records with hard to find books. Many of those with historical or literary significance, now revived in digital form for wide distribution.

    Like this one:

    The Worst Journey in the World is a 1922 memoir by Apsley Cherry-Garrard of Robert Falcon Scott’s Terra Nova expedition to the South Pole in 1910–1913

    When I’ve been getting down about things lately, I just dip into that, and it doesn’t take long before I’m ready to be grateful for the little things.

  247. 247.

    sab

    @catclub: Since he has been the best president of my seventy year old life time, I don’t even care about the answer to your question.

  248. 248.

    Kay

    @Suzanne:

    or “the doctors and the plumbers living in the same neighborhood”.

    Our doctors and plumbers really do live in the same neighborhoods, which is the advantage of a very small city over a suburb. We’re not a suburb of anywhere. We all really do live together. The only difference from the 1970’s is the physicians are much more diverse. The plumbers are still all white men. Our kids don’t grow up with racial or ethnic diversity but they absolutely experience economic diversity, because they all go to the same public school. The closest fancy school is 60 miles away.

  249. 249.

    SFAW

    @Kay: ​
     
    May have already been commented on here, but: TPM has pointed out that the political media have learned nothing since the Swift Boating of John Kerry. Of course, “learned nothing” assumes they WANT to learn, which is a questionable assumption at best.

  252. 252.

    Geminid

    @Omnes Omnibus: I agree, and I am in fact thinking this could be a “Wave” election. I was just pushing back on what I consider an excessively gloomy notion that Dems need to pile up a 6% advantage in the popular vote to win the Electoral College.

  253. 253.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: According to some polls KH has 46% of the white vote, Ds had that vote share last when Carter got elected.

    I still take all these polls with a grain of salt. They are just a snapshot of the present, even if we posit that they have a reasonably accurate sample of the population that will vote in November 2024

  256. 256.

    CaseyL

    @BR: ​

    I’m interested in what you’re all hearing from the normies and politically disengaged or independent voting folks you know about Harris/Walz.

    I don’t know too many people like that. I do know at least one person in the shallow/vibes category, and have no idea who she’ll vote for. She definitely identifies with “rich people” aspirationally – she works for a company founded by ex-Microsofties – and doesn’t think about serious issues very much at all. They just slide off of her. I can see her saying she’ll vote for Harris/Walz, especially telling me that just to not get into a discussion, but actually voting for Trump on the basis of perceived economic self-interest. Or even because she thinks the people she works for will, and has a vague sense that voting as they vote means she’s on their team.

    It’s honestly horrifying to think there are a LOT of people like her.​

  258. 258.

    WereBear

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Anyone they swap in might be less of a mutant creepazoid than Vance but they’ll still have this problem.

     
    I looked up Doug Burghum. Was that the billionaire Trump wanted? But that Vance. Trump said it himself, I think it was…

    He loved me the best.

  264. 264.

    Kay

    @Suzanne:

    But as you know even the trades are changing. Slowly, sometimes with federal consent decrees, but changing.

    My middle son is working on the Detroit train station rehab and his apprentices are Arab American Detroiters. One of them is a first generation immigrant and his mother thinks he is in college. He’s in an IBEW apprenticeship. He can’t bear to tell her he’s going to be an electrician. My son told her “you have to tell her!” So he leaves his house every morning and she thinks he’s going to class. It’s terrible what we do to them with our ambitions for them. Make them into liars.

  266. 266.

    Sean

    @TS:

    Among likely voters, 53 percent said they would vote for Harris, while 47 percent said they supported Trump.

    For real. I noticed that too. A 6 point lead among LV in this environment is…pretty damn significant, especially when the prior poll from Marquette showed 51-49 Trump. That’s a big swing.

  267. 267.

    sab

    @Kay: He also lost because his campaign went on vacation from the convention until labor day. He went sailing while we twiddled our thumbs. No summer campaign. I worked that campaign and elderly vets were furious.

  270. 270.

    Jeffro

    orange moron taking the stage at 2pm today…here’s hoping his narcissistic supply can hold out for a few more hours

    (or not =)

  271. 271.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Anyway:

    Silicon valley billionaires hate Lina Khan and have their knives out. They’re working hard to elect Dotard.

    The techbros will be the death of us all if we let em. Many also fund some awful glibertarian Reaganomic bullshit that has traction with self-professed “progressives”.

    Every Billionaire Is A Policy Failure.

  272. 272.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Geminid: Right.  What I was saying is that if we shoot for that 6+% because it will have coat tails and help us to win the House, keep the Senate, and win innumerable state and local races, it will generate more enthusiasm than saying we need that or we might be fucked (however true that may be).  People like winning.  Harris/Walz are a positive vibe team.  We should preach offense not defense.

  274. 274.

    Kay

    @SFAW:

    It’s very unfair to Walz. I know absolutely nothing about the military but even I know those “operation XYZ” designations mean everyone – he never fucking pretended to be in Iraq or Afghanistan. He was using the ordinary military language and meaning.

    New York Times reporters are expensively educated. They fucking know this, if I know it. They’re deliberately smearing him. Assholes.

  276. 276.

    different-church-lady

    @SFAW: ​That’s nonsense: they’ve learned how to amplify Swift Boat attacks even more efficiently!

  277. 277.

    narya

    @Omnes Omnibus: Exactly. I would love to see a landslide, though, like you, I don’t think it’s all that likely. What I also want to see is large turnout, especially among the Youngs, and I’d like the coattails of a landslide to maybe flip a few unexpected seats here and there. I’d particularly like to see Alread oust Cruz, but that’s probably too much to ask.

  279. 279.

    Jeffro

    “If Kamala has 1,000 people at a Rally, the Press goes “crazy” and talks about how “big” it was – And she pays for her “Crowd”.  When I have a Rally and 100,000 people show up, the FAKE NEWS doesn’t talk about it, THEY REFUSE TO MENTION CROWD SIZE.  The Fake News is the Enemy of the People!

    -DJT, just now

    So we have a) projection (“she pays her Crowd”) like an IMAX and b) crowd size envy out the wazoo.

    2pm gonna be LIT!  Please do go on, Ranty McMoron!!

  281. 281.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kay: They don’t know it though.  Most people know fuck all about the military.  You have taken the time to learn something about it, but most people just don’t.

  282. 282.

    Baud

    To get a true landslide, I think Trump would have to do something he hasn’t done in 9 years and that is take some action that actually turns his base off. Can’t even imagine what that could be.

  283. 283.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @SFAW:

    Of course, “learned nothing” assumes they WANT to learn, which is a questionable assumption at best.

    Ain’t that the truth.  All anybody needs to see in terms of that is the poster child for political media not wanting to learn: Katy Tur (there are craptons of others).  She wrote a book about her covering Felonious D’s 2016 campaign and there was plenty to learn there.  She laid it all out.

    Flash forward to today and well, the no-learning is on display every day on the cable, electrical teevee device and the people who populate it.

  284. 284.

    CaseyL

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: ​

    After seeing what a lot of “progressive” politicking has done, my view is that the difference between “liberals” and “progressives” is that the former want actual policies that can improve outcomes, and the latter want soaring rhetoric and feel-good public displays.

    I am, as you can probably guess, not a big fan of “progressives.”

  287. 287.

    Soprano2

    @artem1s: I agree except that it helps set a press narrative that she’s gaining support, and it influences how they cover the campaign at a whole.

  290. 290.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Matt McIrvin: People are excited and united and focussed on winning the election.  As they should be.  After ten exhausting months I think a lot of people in our coalition are fed up with these protestors.  They have had more than enough time dominating the conversations on our side and there’s too much at stake in November for us to get sidetracked and lose momentum/energy.

  292. 292.

    different-church-lady

    @CaseyL: ​I make a similar division, but put the line in a different linguistic place. There are plenty of progressives who also want practical progress, but far too many who describe themselves as progressives that give the whole “category” a bad name.

    I don’t have a fixed name for the the latter group, but tend to use “dirtbag left”, “further left” and “very-online left” as descriptors.

  293. 293.

    Soprano2

    @chemiclord: So she should let them constantly interrupt her as she’s trying to give a speech? I think normal people won’t be put off by her getting them to back off.

  296. 296.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    But Megyn Kelly is just out there in society, accepted by other “journalists” and media people, making millions. She’s an absolute scumbag.

    Not shocked in the least.

    She’s a racist scumbag.

    Who still doesn’t have the sense to be humble and grateful for all the money she scammed from NBC.

  297. 297.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Baud: …[Trump] take some action that actually turns his base off. Can’t even imagine what that could be.

    Nor can I. The strategy that might work is to keep the pressure on, to get under his skin. He has a self-destructive streak. He will make an error.

  299. 299.

    different-church-lady

    @Quantum man: I mean, it totally figures that a life-long misogynist playing for the misogynist vote would think the wider world would be impressed instead of creeped out.

  300. 300.

    3Sice

    @Baud:

    Maybe if he dies… though a puppet show getting top billing over Vance shows whatever weird hold he has over them is not transferable.

  301. 301.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: Majority vs. plurality is more about the size of the third-party vote, which I see as a separate issue. It is usually at least a few percent though.

  303. 303.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: This.  Do not let him have a moment of peace.  Just keep relentless hammering on him.  At the same, keep pushing out positive message about what Harris/Walz is going to do to build on what Biden/Harris started.

  304. 304.

    Belafon

    @schrodingers_cat: Which I personally think is a mistake since he’s running on abortion and he could use Walz help in crafting a message that will appeal to rural voters on Republicans attempts here to pass school vouchers, which would kill rural schools and generally the largest employer in a lot of small towns.

  305. 305.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Could you be more specific?

    If that’s the case, JFC, it’s deja vu all over again.  How many times do we hafta see Senatorial candidates who, at least in the beginning, appear to have a lot going for them in longshot candidacies to unseat massively unpopular incumbents, run away from being a Dem and then lose massively?

    The last one that comes to mind is McGrath’s campaign against Moscow Mitch.  I’m sure there were plenty of other reasons she lost but when are Dems like that gonna learn that running as some R-Lite or D-Lite ain’t gonna winya an election.

    I know, I know, states like KY and TX aren’t Dem-friendly so I don’t expect a candidate to be Sheldon Whitehouse in terms of policy but good lord, it’s frustrating to see this type of thing play out again and again.

    A good question in terms of comparison is how Tester campaigns. Maybe.  I look at a state like MT as an apples-to-oranges thing given it’s low population and the ability to do more “retail politics”.  Hell, I dunno.

    Which is why I’d be interested in how he’s “running away”.

  310. 310.

    Kay

    @sab:

    I don’t remember that but I’m sure you’re right. Our lists for voter contact came from a Soros-backed group who were just useless. So we made our own lists using the Sec of State voter file and Excel at the law office after hours. It was the first time I encountered a group of liberal org employees who were completely unsupervised and just not doing any work. Nice people! But not working.

  312. 312.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: Trump could, for whatever reason, not be the candidate, and Vance could be the presidential nominee after all. I think that would actually lose a lot of Trump’s loyalist vote and shrink it to just the deranged bro core.

    Some Republicans right now probably have dreams of achieving a Harris-style reset that way, but they’d probably have to replace Vance too and they’d be left without name recognition.

  314. 314.

    Dave

    @Omnes Omnibus: Absolutely; I hate the a six point lead is a tie frame or that we need to run like we are down five points.  No we need to be fully involved run as if we are up and going to crush the election.

    When you have possible “change” election with a lot of enthusiasm I much prefer that approach.  The over confident it’s in the bag I don’t need to bother to vote is much more likely to occur in what is seen as a business as usual of course we’ll win but whatever election.

  317. 317.

    WereBear

    @schrodingers_cat:  He looks worse without a beard.

    That’s why I figured Trump might try that.

    This is how he “thinks.” It’s Vance’s fault. And his failsons. And everyone scurrying around him as he rages at them. With some crazed — but actual — billionaire on the gold plated phone, trying to convince them his next move will sew this up.

    Apparently, he used to be the snake charmer, but I can’t imagine those skills work except on another form of narcissist.

    Which outlines the depths of our problem.

  318. 318.

    TBone

    Anthony Scaramucci xit:

    Trump and the RNC have no field offices. Also a cursory check through social media specifically Facebook the Trump ads are down to a trickle and in many places non-existent. The media should be asking the Trump family what they did with the money.

    😆

  319. 319.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @CaseyL: So many times I’ve seen Progressives be completely dismissive when a Dem politician adopts their preferred policy because they didn’t use the right words.  It’s a convenient, self-serving tactic that allows them to never give Dems credit for anything.

  320. 320.

    sab

    @schrodingers_cat: I have been furious about the Brown campaign but he is our magic unicorn who wins in red Ohio. I hope he wins again. I suspect he and his misguided Tim Ryan, but that is just me speculating.

  321. 321.

    dc

    @rk: I feel the same about the “hang out with” and the “have a beer with” crowd. These are the same people who say, when asked in public, that they think Republicans are better with national defense and the economy. In other words, they are people who just spit out what ever “wisdom” is floating around in the air. Hopefully, when not being put on the spot by a reporter or anyone asking them to make pronouncements, they are in reality more intelligent than what comes out of their mouths makes them seem.

  323. 323.

    3Sice

    I was contemplating failed GOP VP candidates (Romney had one? Oh right, THAT guy) and Vance is just not vibing the immediacy of his future prospects if he takes the L here.

    He is spending way to much time wandering around tarmacs hoping to score some hot seat cushion/flotation device action.

  324. 324.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    You’ve told that story before, and I do feel for that young man. To a point.

    But, damn, he’s setting himself up well. I mean, well onto a  six-figure career, and if he’s a hustler, he can set up his own side business being the electrical handyman for the community.

  327. 327.

    WereBear

    The Republicans are running the most blatant of sexist and racist compaigns. We might have a new kind of factor, with a new kind of name. Now, we know how many will be in that basket of weird.

  328. 328.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    The only difference from the 1970’s is the physicians are much more diverse.

     

    And,I only understood this, after I learned that many immigrant doctors take rural positions, to put themselves at the front of the line at the immigration office.

  329. 329.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Dave: I remember the great feeling when playing rugby of knowing at half time that, even though the score is tied, we had the other team beaten and all we needed to do is go out for the next 40 minutes and make it happen.  Everyone played loose and had fun.  You didn’t want to do anything dumb and fuck it up though.

  331. 331.

    different-church-lady

    @Kay: ​In a sane world we’d recognize that in order for people to have the kinds of jobs a college degree provides, we need to have lots and lots and lots of functional and reliable electrical systems.

  332. 332.

    rikyrah

    @Baud:

    NBC is no victim.

     

    No, they were stupid to think that she was worth the kind of money they paid for me. Watching them fail as they pushed her, was sort of amusing.

  334. 334.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    He is. And he’s absolutely allowed to go his own way. But I pushed my own IBEW electrician to go to college – he had to actively defy me- so I understand his mother. It’s hard to trust them because they are knuckleheads. That they sometimes make okay decisions at 19 despite our counsel  doesn’t mean they aren’t knuckleheads :)

  335. 335.

    Geminid

    @Baud: Glenn Youngkin did a good job fending off Trump during his 2021 campaign for Governor. Youngkin knew he had to keep Trump out of Virginia in order to win the state.

    Youngkin’s a slick operator and he managed to keep Trump away without ruffling his feathers too much, but I think Trump has distrusted Youngkin ever since

  337. 337.

    KatKapCC

    IMHFO, I don’t give a damn what your cause du jour is — interrupting the Black female Vice President while she’s giving a speech during her presidential campaign in front of thousands who waited hours and maybe travelled for hours to see her makes you nothing but a petulant, attention-seeking, self-centered asshole. I’m glad she told them to piss off (in nicer words). It’s what they deserve. People think this kind of behavior is bold and brave and whatever. It’s not. It’s childish and pointless…or at least, it’s pointless as far as what their claimed goal is, but it definitely gets the point of “ME ME ME LOOK AT ME LISTEN TO ME ME ME ME ME ME” accomplished. And that’s true no matter what it is you’re screaming about.

    Shut your face when Madam Vice President Soon-To-Be-Madam-President Kamala Devi Harris is speaking.

  338. 338.

    rikyrah

    @schrodingers_cat:

    @Baud: Allred is also running away from the Dem ticket.

     

    Yeah, which is an absolute clown move.

    I’m watching Rep. Crockett campaigning for the Vice President in GEORGIA.

    Allred should have her campaigning for him IN TEXAS.

    Where does he think he’s going to get those margins to put him over the top..if he doesn’t run those totals up in Urban Areas.

    I’m so phucking tired of these squishy azz Texans not knowing that THEY HAVE TO GET OUT THEIR BASE TOO.

  339. 339.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Dave: The people who say “run like you’re ten points down” don’t understand how far down ten points down is. That’s despondency territory. “One point down” makes more sense. That’s staying hungry.

  340. 340.

    sab

    @Kay: My Bil in Mass, raised by a single mother nurse, loved W Bush. Fiercely. We used to argue with him. He put himself through college working as an orderly at a VA hospital.

  342. 342.

    rikyrah

    @KatKapCC:

    IMHFO, I don’t give a damn what your cause du jour is — interrupting the Black female Vice President while she’s giving a speech during her presidential campaign in front of thousands who waited hours and maybe travelled for hours to see her makes you nothing but a petulant, attention-seeking, self-centered asshole.

     

    Add in that she had met with them beforehand, and they STILL pulled this bullshyt?

    Oh no. Muthaphuckas gotta go.

  343. 343.

    Jeffro

    @Geminid:

    Youngkin knew he had to keep Trump out of Virginia in order to win the state…Trump has distrusted Youngkin ever since

    trump is incapable of believing that his endorsement/blessing/public support might possibly have a down side, or that someone else might be a better draw for GOP voters

  345. 345.

    schrodingers_cat

    @rikyrah: We used to be friends with a family where the husband and wife were both physicians, from India, who had also worked in the UK and Canada. They came to the US because their kids wanted to go school here. The husband took a massive paycut to work in Eastern Maine  and do a fellowship in a microspecialty so that he could self apply for the GC as an immigrant of extraordinary ability

    People blather about immigration and immigrants without knowing the first thing about it. They have no idea the hoops one has to jump through to get a Green Card. The essential penultimate step to becoming a citizen. Their reference point is some ancestor in the distant past.

  348. 348.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    I blame Trump (and all Republicans) for the excess deaths in the pandemic. I think they killed thousands of people with lies.

    I stand 10 toes down in my belief that President Hillary Clinton would have handled COVID as well as the other female Heads of State around the world did.

     

    1. She would never have dismantled the team that Bush and Obama set up all around the top levels of government specifically dedicated to a possible pandemic.

    2. She never would have thrown away the pandemic instructional manual developed by Bush and Obama just because the Black man did it.

    3. She never would have removed our eyes and ears in China- medical -wise, so we wouldn’t have been blind when it first started to go down.

     

    4. She never would have stood there and told us to inject bleach.

  349. 349.

    rikyrah

    @oldgold:

    Is there any possibility that JV Vance gets tossed? This morning they had a segment on Morning Joe exploring this idea. It seems that post-convention this would be a big lift.

     

    I thought that time had passed. There was a time limit and that he couldn’t do it.

  350. 350.

    Kay

    @different-church-lady:

    I sort of “get” the moms. My youngest has a Pakistani college roommate and he asked his friends to support him because he had to call his parents and tell them he’s not going to med school – they’re juniors in undergrad. He wants to be like a biomechanical engineer or something so it’s not like he’s heading off to do stand up comedy but his parents were literally crying. Brave! He could have strung them along another year.

    Aspirational. Obama called parents like that “strivers”.

  352. 352.

    sab

    @WereBear: Sounds complicated, but I will do anything for you.

    OT We moved this week. Cats were horrified and not eating for two days. Now they are trotting around like life is normal.  They love their new home. Especially the ground level windows.

  353. 353.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @schrodingers_cat: People blather about immigration and immigrants without knowing the first thing about it. They have no idea the hoops one has to jump through to get a Green Card.

    Truth!

  354. 354.

    Dave

    @rikyrah: And she would have been absolutely crucified if we had even 50,000-100,000 excess deaths.

    Even worse she probably would have had a GOP congress and they would have been unlikely to allow anything helpful to pass.

    And she would have taken the full blame.

    The world is stupid and frustrating sometimes.

  355. 355.

    topclimber

    @schrodingers_cat: Thing is, that was not a Presidential election year. He will benefit from maximum turnout from a turned on Dem base. I don’t see folks who vote for the top of the ticket  punishing him for keeping his distance (so far).

    He is running on reproductive rights and the Cruz/Trump sabotage of bipartisan border reform. He won’t win many Republican votes but his stance may work with enough indies to carry him through.

  356. 356.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: Forget the Green Card even getting long term visas like the student visa or the various work visas is hard.

    And you don’t get any benefits unless you are child under 18 or an older person (I forget the cut off, its over 70 IIRC) from the state until  5 years after you get the GC.

    Children under 18 of GC holders and long term visa holders get WIC benefits

    Responding to immigrants are taking my benefits,  a frequent cry I hear. These are the rules for most immigrants (asylum seekers have a different criteria for getting aid)

  358. 358.

    rikyrah

    @sab:

    OT We moved this week. Cats were horrified and not eating for two days. Now they are trotting around like life is normal.  They love their new home. Especially the ground level windows.

    congratulations :)

  359. 359.

    Citizen Alan

    @lowtechcyclist: I do agree that homophobia was bigger than the swift boating. I still remember my boss at the time telling me that his oldest son wasn’t even going to bother to vote that year until an anti gay referendum was put on the ballot. At which point he, a first year law student, skipped class and drove two hours each way on a school day just two make an utterly gratuitous and pointless statement of contempt for gay mississippians.

  360. 360.

    PST

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I don’t think the magic margin is as high as 6%. I think it’s about 3%.

    At 6% popular margin, in the Nate Silver model, the odds of a Harris electoral victory reach 100%. The magic margin for more probable than not is in the 2 to 3% range. I can’t vouch for the math, of course, but it feels right. Six is for certainty.

  362. 362.

    Citizen Alan

    @Baud: Off the top of my head, he could pull a Lonesome Rhodes and get caught on a hot mic talking about how stupid and gullible his MAGA supporters are.

  365. 365.

    Geminid

    @Kay: Ulysses Grant’s father Jesse was a striver, as shown in Grant’s memoirs:

       In the winter of 1838-9 I was attending school in Ripley, 10 miles from Georgetown, but spent tbe Christmas holidays at home. During this vacation my father received a letter from the Honorable Thomas Morris, Senator from Ohio.

    When he read it he said to me, “Ulysses, I believe you will receive the appointment.” “What appointment?” I inquired. “To West Point, I have applied for it”

    “But I won’t go,” I said. He said he thought I would, and I thought so too if he did.

    The reluctant Grant went on to graduate from West Point in 1844, with a rank in the middle of his class and a reputation as its best horseback rider.

    Ulysses was Jesse’s oldest son, the apple of his father’s eye, and Jesse was very proud of his son’s military service, especially his two battlefield promotions earned while serving under Generals Taylor and Scott during the Mexican War.

    So when Ulysses resigned his commission in 1854, Jesse was appalled. The elder Grant even traveled to Washington, D.C. in order to persuade the Secretary of War to reinstate his son in the officer corps, but Jefferson Davis refused.

  366. 366.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    @thruppence: The Wonkette Shop is another good place.  I bought a great Biden/Harris sign there in 2020.  I and other regulars have been hounding the Editrix since Walz’s announcement for a yard sign.

  367. 367.

    Misterpuff

    @Scout211:

    *WTF NBC News!? The Biden-Walz campaign? Really?  I hope that gets fixed because that is not a typo.  That’s incompetence.

     

    No Trump’s right. Biden Resurrection is happening with Walz as VP. Our White Guys are better than yours. This was The Plan (in Trump’s worm-riddled mind and NBC got the word direct from one of the worms)/s

  368. 368.

    Misterpuff

    @WereBear:

    He’ll get a lot done in ONE term. That’s what the historians will remember. Also, we can call corporate media “yellow journalism” which has a period ring to it.

     

    “Orange Journalism” to denote how in the tank for Trump the corporate media was during these times.

  369. 369.

    MCA1

    @Baud: Not terribly realistic given the amount of time left in the race and the likelihood that Team Harris focuses an inordinate amount of time trying to win Wisco/Penn/Michigan (totally fine by me), but I could see a universe in which this current momentum continues, she expands to the swing states Biden took in 2020, and then starts to look at North Carolina.  Winning all of those states would make it 319-219, which feels close to a landslide.  The place to look then to make a clear landslide would be, IMHO, Florida, since it’s Trump’s backyard (so would serve as a psychological beatdown) and it was only 51/48 there in 2020.  Texas still seems a decade or more away.

    I don’t know how Harris could get enough momentum to pull that off, though.  Neither she nor Walz have any particular appeal there and the state Dem party is pretty famously in tatters in recent years.  My preferred incredibly rose-colored glasses outcome is that Walz’s presence helps expand the map into…Iowa.  I could see a message of “Aren’t you just tired of all that guy’s drama?” working there, when spoken by a person of the region.  If a Dem ticket could win in states as disparate as Georgia, Arizona and Iowa, that serves notice that it’s a national party with broad appeal.  The Repubs would be locked into their dominance in the Deep South and the relatively empty, low EV upper plains and mountains, with virtually nothing else.  And with a newfound Democratic commitment to appealing to nice rural people who like common sense instead of just resentment, the message would be “We’re comin’ for Nebraska next.”  OK, enough dreaming.

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