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You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

President Biden is doing good where he can, and getting it done.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

Ah, the different things are different argument.

“And when the Committee says to “report your income,” that could mean anything!

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

The new republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

FFS people, this was a good thing. take the win.

Israel is using food as a weapon of war. Unforgivable.

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

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You are here: Home / 2024 Activism / Open Thread: Harris-Walz Nevada Rally

Open Thread: Harris-Walz Nevada Rally

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The rally is set for 8:20 EDT.

I know these are pretty standard stump speeches, but I think seeing the crowds and enthusiasm is always positive.

This is Bryan Tyler Cohen’s feed, he usually has some good commentary.

This is an open thread.

Reader Interactions

283Comments

  1. 1.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    These may be standard stump speeches, but seeing the local faces is always nice and they always add something. The crowds are just on another level.

    Not that anyone is so interested in crowd sizes…

  2. 2.

    Trivia Man

    And help excite people for local races is huge. Really hoping Tammy Baldwin gets some tail wind from the swing state love.

  5. 5.

    TS

    I know these are pretty standard stump speeches, but I think seeing the crowds and enthusiasm is always positive.

    Funny how the media covered every one of trump’s VERY standard stump speeches and gave him non stop free coverage – no reason why Harris/Walz should not claim the same. The excitement is catching, everyone should see them.

  6. 6.

    RaflW

    I was at the first post switcheroo rally in Milwaukee (West Allis). That was a high school gym. I can’t imagine the energy in the room at a 10K or 15K arena!!

  7. 7.

    Turgidson

    Walz seems to improvise a bit each time.  Might be that he’s never relied on teleprompters, but I think he also just has a wit and enthusiasm to him that makes it work.  MVP is somewhat more scripted, but has already shown that she can be nimble when necessary.

    I know it won’t be this much fun and seem this easy for the rest of the campaign, but man has it been a welcome change from the white-knuckled anxiety march we were in before.

  8. 8.

    RaflW

    @TS: Unfortunately, Trump’s tendency to go wildly off script was the catnip for the press. Harris may ad lib a bit (esp in response to audience feedback) but it’s a tight set.

    I guess Walz may go a bit wider. I wish the press was more willing to be fair, but they’re up their own asses about what they think is news, and unlikely to change in the short term (i’m not sure how most will survive in the long term, business model-wise).

  9. 9.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @RaflW: Different settings but the moments of obvious improvisation provided some of my favorite moments watching stage plays.

  10. 10.

    lamh47

    I love that the Harris campaign even before adding Walz always has a DJ at the rallys creating a concerty/festival atmosphere

  11. 11.

    Baud

    I personally don’t get enthusiastic about anything much anymore, but the nice thing about it is helps other people block out all the noise designed to bring us down

  12. 12.

    RaflW

    Semi-relatedly, I’d really like to see the VP start doing some interviews. Specifically big (and small!) market local interviews.

    Give a quality reporter 20 minutes of her time while in Vegas. And in Eau Claire. Etc.

    It would drive traffic to news operations that need visibility. I think local reporters are much less likely to ask the crap-ass Beltway navel-gaze questions like “How do you respond to Trump’s taunts?” as if a farmer in the WI Driftless cares. Or a croupier in Vegas.

    And it would be such a fantastic kick in the crotch to the NYT.

  13. 13.

    HumboldtBlue

    Sue every motherfucker, Imane.

    Rough translation (thread): Press release: Imane Khelif After the sporting time, comes the legal time. Having just won a gold medal at the Paris 2024 Olympic Games, boxer Imane Khelif has decided to lead a new fight: that of justice, dignity and honor.

  15. 15.

    MazeDancer

    Went to YouTube to see which stream seemed best if you like the openers. And I do.

    Was offered a WaPo stream. Great quality. Good sound. Didn’t find that last night.

    Hey, might as well send them a message of Harris has support.

    Love the Rock Star cat walk they have in Vegas.

    Hope the Dynamic Duo decide to do a stop in both TX and FL while Trump is taking August off.

  16. 16.

    Ken

    @RaflW: Unfortunately, Trump’s tendency to go wildly off script was the catnip for the press.

    Plus, it gives them a sense of accomplishment, taking thirty minutes of babbling about Ghana sending inmates of their insane asylums to Montana on battery-powered sharks, and converting it into a pithy  “Trump spoke at length on immigration reform and border control”.

  19. 19.

    KatKapCC

    I will happily take “standard stump speeches” over whatever the heck burbles out of Trump’s mouth whenever he gets behind a mic.

  20. 20.

    Ken

    @lamh47: I love that the Harris campaign even before adding Walz always has a DJ at the rallys creating a concerty/festival atmosphere

    And yet people were critical when Trump was two hours late for his Montana rally and the venue played You-Tube videos on the screen over the empty stage. It just shows the terribly unfair and nasty double standard Trump has to deal with every day.

  21. 21.

    lamh47

    Hmmm, talking about the hack of Chump co…

    @goldietaylor

    I can appreciate this. I’d also like to hear from law enforcement. This is potentially an extraordinary national security issue.
    https://x.com/goldietaylor/status/1822425713573613731

    Here’s part of the OG twitter thread:

    On the hack of the Trump campaign, I’m taking this seriously & have it on good authority it’s the real deal. You should too. I tend to not comment much these days for various reasons personal & professional, but this is important, I have a bit of relevant insight & experience, & there’s more coming & we need to be prepared for down the road. You might not like the victim here, but the adversary gives zero Fs who you like or don’t like. They have their own objectives and guess what, you’re the target. Take this seriously…

  22. 22.

    MazeDancer

    Will admit to be woefully ignorant of  Sen Cortez-Masto’s back story.

    Her grandfather waded across the Rio Grande from Mexico! Wow.

    Loved her groovy salsa walk-on music.

  23. 23.

    Harrison Wesley

    I texted a friend who’s a big Harris Walz fan that she should stop by here to check out the rally. Don’t think she’s ever been to BJ before.

  24. 24.

    Steve LaBonne

    @KatKapCC: The only reason Trump doesn’t have a standardized stump speech is that he can’t read, including from a teleprompter. But pretty much the same muck burbles up every time from his diseased subconscious, just not quite verbatim.

  27. 27.

    Jerszy

    “I know these are pretty standard stump speeches…”

    IKR, such bull$h!t!!

    Not even ONE ‘shark vs battery’ or ‘Crying/Sir’ story for us ANYwhere in them!!

  29. 29.

    KatKapCC

    @Steve LaBonne: It’s also because he’s dumb as dirt. Lots of folks have trouble with reading from teleprompters but they can still speak coherently. Gov Newsom has dyslexia and has mentioned that it makes it hard for him to read from notes or screens, so he basically has to memorize everything he wants to say, and he always sounds on top of it and organized and has every data point. But Trump’s brain started out being made of pudding and is now made of the scuzzy dry stuff left behind if you don’t wash out the bowl the pudding was in.

  30. 30.

    KatKapCC

    @Jerszy: I want Kamala to start telling anecdotes about things voters have told her and start them with, “She came up to me and said, ‘Ma’am, ma’am, please…” just to get everyone laughing.

  34. 34.

    FelonyGovt

    This is some rock star energy at these rallies. I’ve been watching Taylor Swift’s concert movie and these crowds aren’t too far off!

  36. 36.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud: Did you watch her UAW speech? That might get you excited. It was really good. It’s at the end of the Lawrence O’Donnell “2016” video that was frontpaged yesterday. It’s just a few minutes, but very inspiring and heartfelt.

  37. 37.

    zhena gogolia

    @RaflW: And if they ask her who the leader of Pakistan is, she won’t say “General  . . . General General.” (golden oldie from the GWB campaign)

  39. 39.

    Ken

    @MazeDancer: Trump is apparently motorcading o Jackson Hole, WY.

    It would be irresponsible not to speculate that he has unpaid bills at the Jackson Hole airport, so can’t fly.

  44. 44.

    lamh47

    @cbouzy One of the three things will happen because of this “hack.” 1. Trump will sack Vance. 2. Trump will drop out because he doesn’t want to lose to a Black woman. 3. Something damaging is about to drop, and the “hack” will be used to cast doubt. Hackers don’t use AOL accounts
    https://x.com/cbouzy/status/1822430717978030227

  46. 46.

    MazeDancer

    @Ken: Maybe Trump’s hitting up Mellon for a donation to “repair ” his plane.

    But have to admit I had the same thought about the airport. Jackson Hole not likely to put up with pikers.

  47. 47.

    CaseyL

    I’m with Baud: speeches don’t do much for me.  Doesn’t mean I don’t love and support the person giving the speech, it’s just that I apparently don’t have any of the receptors that respond to rhetoric and chants.  Particularly when it’s a stump speech and I’ve heard it X number of times already.

    (Yes, even Obama didn’t do it for me.)

    @lamh47:  Has any of the material that was hacked been revealed?  Does anyone even know how reliable the revealed information is? I don’t get why it would have such a huge impact on Trump/Vance.  Trump, at least, is running to stay out of prison; I don’t see any amount of hacking changing his need to be in power again.

  49. 49.

    HumboldtBlue

    @lamh47:

    Uh-huh. They’re searching for a distraction. The hack story doesn’t add up, the assassination attempt story doesn’t add up, and they’re trying to get in front of something.

    On July 22, POLITICO began receiving emails from an anonymous account. Over the course of the past few weeks, the person — who used an AOL email account and identified themselves only as “Robert” — relayed what appeared to be internal communications from a senior Trump campaign official. A research dossier the campaign had apparently done on JD Vance, which was dated Feb. 23, was included in the documents. The documents are authentic, according to two people familiar with them.

  52. 52.

    Ken

    @RaflW: @KatKapCC: @zhena gogolia: Combining these ideas, when she finally does give the NYT an interview, she could respond to each question with “When Donald Trump was asked a similar question, he said….” then read, verbatim, one of his incoherent five-minute sharks-and-Hannibal rambles. Then finish up with “Obviously I don’t agree, but let’s move on.”

  54. 54.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Ken: I would love to see the new Harris administration fill up the White House press room with genuine local reporters and independents who do go work and will ask real questions.

  56. 56.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Baud: My favorite things about these rallies and speeches is learning about talent in the Democratic Party I hadn’t encountered yet.

  57. 57.

    Steve LaBonne

    @HumboldtBlue: Would it be irresponsible to speculate that what they’re trying to get in front of is really, really damaging? It would be irresponsible not to!

  59. 59.

    lamh47

    WAYYYYYY off topic…I’m doing a rewatch of XMen97 series.  I’m sure ya’ll talked about it before, but damn this show was legit my FAVORITE series, animated and not this past television season!

  60. 60.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Baud: To be fair, Republicans do a better job at getting in front of cameras.

    Must be the trainwreck factor.

  61. 61.

    lamh47

    @drvolts

    It might seem like kind of a trivial thing, but I think you can tell a *ton* about a person from how they interact with children. When you see Harris (and before her, Obama) interact with children or young people, you see a lot of what psychologists call “mirroring.”
    https://x.com/drvolts/status/1822339337645855131

    This is true…children and animals know…both PBO and PJB has this and MVP Harris as well, especially when she talks to a young girl..

  62. 62.

    CaseyL

    @Steve LaBonne:

    Short of a spreadsheet showing a history of Russian payments directly to Trump, or documents showing he sold confidential documents to gods-know-who, I’m not sure how damaging any revelations could be.

    I mean, people know what Trump is.  They’ve known for years.

    Even his cult knows, but excuses it by saying he’s doing God’s work.

  63. 63.

    Jackie

    @lamh47: The most surprising thing to me is it shows Vance was being “vetted!” By a very incompetent vetting team – which doesn’t surprise me at all. One only gets what’s paid for.

  64. 64.

    New Deal democrat

    @lamh47: I’ve read in other places today that there is some decent circumstantial evidence that it really was a hack, and the perpetrator was Iran.

    Putting myself in Iran’s shoes, I have wondered why they have not already retaliated for the assassination of Soleimani. And if the target would most likely be personal to Trump, wouldn’t I want to do it before he became President again (since until the last couple of weeks, he was leading in the polls)? So from that point of view, it makes sense.

    It might also at least partially explain Trump’s almost complete lack of campaign events since the GOP convention, and why he has remained holed up at Mar-a-Lago.

    Guess we’ll find out sooner or later.

  66. 66.

    sdhays

    @HumboldtBlue: So, we’re going find out Vance does, in actual fact, like to fuck couches, the Trump campaign had proof of this in February LAST YEAR, and Trump picked him anyway because he doesn’t give a shit.

  67. 67.

    Ken

    @Steve LaBonne: The thing that puzzles me about this “getting ahead of the bad news” idea is, considering what’s already come out about Vance — the real stuff, I mean, like writing the foreword for Posobiec’s Unhumans — what could possibly be worse?

  68. 68.

    gwangung

    @New Deal democrat: Wasn’t somebody speculating that it was the files of the law firm defending him? They also vetted Vance, but they were also defending him in the classified files case…and THOSE files touched upon Iran.

    If so…that does make things less fishy…

  69. 69.

    Bex

    @Ken:  Trump’s team last night had a big screen with someone singing “My Heart Will Go On” from Titanic.  Very appropriate.  Keith Olbermann suggested that they should have followed that up with “The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.”

  71. 71.

    Villago Delenda Est

    As this is an election thread, Jesse Ventura has attacked Couchboy for the “stolen valor” line of attack on Walz, and has thrown his support behind Harris-Walz.

  75. 75.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @MazeDancer: Jackson Hole is a scary airport to fly into, the plane does a sharp turn (on one side, you see the ground, the other sky), levels off and lands. I’d rather motorcade too!

  76. 76.

    eclare

    @RaflW:

    That local station reporter in CO asked much better questions as a moderator in the Republican debate for a House seat than any of the big network reporters have.  Can’t remember his name now.

  77. 77.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Jackie: Were the vetters influenced by Uday and Qusay and Uday’s stash?  It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

  78. 78.

    Ken

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: They could introduce the English football pyramid. Split up the press pool into leagues. The top league gets the White House Press Secretary in the big room, then it goes downhill until the bottom league gets an assistant undersecretary of agriculture on a zoom call.

    Each week, the two reporters in each league who asked the most intelligent, on-topic questions get promoted to the next higher league. And, of course, the two who asked the most idiotic, self-aggrandizing questions get demoted.

  80. 80.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Ken: That’s another great way to do it.  I’ll make sure to have you in the policy meetings.

  83. 83.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @lamh47:

    WAYYYYYY off topic…I’m doing a rewatch of XMen97 series. I’m sure ya’ll talked about it before, but damn this show was legit my FAVORITE series, animated and not this past television season!

    Haven’t watched, but read a bit about it. I didn’t like how they portrayed Captain America in it. That’s a well-known problem in the X-Men comics. Whenever a non-X character shows up they typically get shat on to make the X-Men look good.

    “Where were you during the last mutant genocide!?”

    Uh, the book’s title is “X-Men” guy, not the Avengers. The story wasn’t about them. What’s crazy is actual fans online will parrot these dumb arguments.

  84. 84.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Villago Delenda Est: Were the vetters influenced by Uday and Qusay and Uday’s stash?

    The powder says there are no bad ideas, only the enthusiasm needed to make the idea work.

  88. 88.

    Jay C

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    Well, the landscape between Bozeman and Jackson has got to be pretty scenic, and yeah: given the choice (and having enough time), I’d rather drive, too.

    Tho Google sez it’s about 220 miles between the two cities, about a four hour + drive (don’t think it’s Interstate-level roads). I just find it hard to picture Convict Donny being happy stuck in a car (even a luxurious one) for four hours; however nice the scenery.

    Must pain him to have to travel around without his flying Mar-a-Lago, i.e. paying for transportation…..

  89. 89.

    mali muso

    Hubby and I have the stream on but it’s taking a long time for the main event speakers to arrive. Thankfully the music the DJ is spinning is fun. 😎

  93. 93.

    Ken

    I have a question. I have been being careful to refer to the VP as Harris, not by her first name, in contexts where I would do the same for male politicians. But I keep hesitating when writing the possessive. Online searches note that various style guides disagree.

    So, recognizing the risk of utterly sundering the blog into warring camps, should it be “Harris’ campaign” or “Harris’s campaign”?

  97. 97.

    KatKapCC

    @Ken: I always insist on an s after the apostrophe, because that’s how you say it aloud. If you were saying “Harris’s campaign” out loud, you would say her name like “Harrises”.

  98. 98.

    CaseyL

    @Ken: ​

    Harris’

    Apostrophe after the “s”, and no additional s.

    That’s the standard for any word or name ending in an s. SFAIK it’s the standard in any style of writing.

  100. 100.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Also, I’m a bit leery of the show taking influence from the recent Krakoa era from the comics. It had some very questionable creative decisions, like this.

    Or creating a mutant ethnostate and allowing literal Nazis and genocidal monsters on the undemocratic ruling council

  103. 103.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Ken: Harris’s campaign.

    Names always have an ‘s’ after the apostrophe.

    Only plurals ending in ‘s’ drop the added letter.

  104. 104.

    MazeDancer

    Yamiche Alcindor tweets:

    From a Harris-Walz campaign official: There are over 12,000 people in the Las Vegas arena. In the last hour, local law enforcement made the decision to close the doors to the event due to people becoming ill while waiting outside to go through security in the 109-degree heat. Approximately 4,000 people were in line and in cars when the entrances were shut down

  105. 105.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Ken: I like this

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: They could introduce the English football pyramid. Split up the press pool into leagues. The top league gets the White House Press Secretary in the big room, then it goes downhill until the bottom league gets an assistant undersecretary of agriculture on a zoom call.

    Each week, the two reporters in each league who asked the most intelligent, on-topic questions get promoted to the next higher league. And, of course, the two who asked the most idiotic, self-aggrandizing questions get demoted.

  107. 107.

    HumboldtBlue

    Oh, and I am a grand uncle for the fifth sixth time! Li’l Nash has entered the world! Mama is my niece who lost her newborn son five years ago, so this comes with some extra joy!

  109. 109.

    Ken

    @lamh47: LeBron is the first men’s basketball player to win an Olympic gold medal in 3 different decades

    Unless there was there a women’s basketball player who’s already done the same — or for that matter, any competitor in any event who has — the qualification seems unnecessary.

  111. 111.

    Chet Murthy

    @CaseyL: That’s certainly how I learned it 40+ years ago, but @Baud: is right that the way he suggests is …. “more common.”  I looked in the Merriam-Webster dictionary and found this: https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/what-happens-to-names-when-we-make-them-plural-or-possessive#:~:text=For%20names%20ending%20in%20s,one%20syllable%2C%20add%20%2D's.

    Possession And Names
    If you want to talk about something that belongs to more than one member of a family, you start with the plural form and add an apostrophe to show possession:

    the Smiths’ car

    a party at the Fernandezes’ house

    the Daleys’ driveway

    If you want to talk about something that belongs to a single person being identified by last name, you follow the usual -‘s rule for most names:

    the car that belongs to Smith → Smith’s car

    For names that end in an s or z sound, though, you can either add -‘s or just an apostrophe. Going with -‘s is the more common choice:

    the car that belongs to Jones → Jones’s car or Jones’ car

  114. 114.

    lamh47

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Ooooh…if you like the comics or even just the 97 show…the show DEF deserves a watch.

    It was LEGIT, the best thing on television last year, IMO, both animated and non-animated.  It was near perfect.  It’s up there with Loki S2 for me last year (and TBH, it might actually pass Loki S2).

    You won’t regret watching it.

    ETA: The CA bits is so small as to not even being that big a deal except an Easter egg saying YES CA was “around” during the 90s run of XMen.   I personally had no issue with the take they had.

    If nothing else it deserves a watch for FINALLY giving Cyclops his due as a real leader of the Xmen and freakn cool to boot.

  117. 117.

    Steve LaBonne

    @CaseyL: There is actually disagreement among style books about this. I favor “Harris’s” but some favor your construct.

  118. 118.

    TaMara

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    @eclare:

    @CaseyL:

    @Ken:

    (I may have missed a few) Here’s the AP Style guide which my editor and I defer to when we disagree.

    AP style for possessives. SINGULAR COMMON NOUNS ENDING IN S: Add ’s: the virus’s reach, the virus’s spread. SINGULAR PROPER NAMES ENDING IN S: Use only an apostrophe: Dickens’ novels,Hercules’ labors, Kansas’ schools.

  120. 120.

    M31

    @Ken: what I learned when I first taught this stuff was that for most plurals of proper names ending in s is to use the apostrophe + s, so Harris’s

    Only names like Jesus or Moses with long traditions get the apostrophe only.

    So Jesus’ many followers vs. Harris’s many followers lol.

    But stylesheets differ and I’m sure the NYT has something they recommend, but who cares what those assholes think.

  121. 121.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Ken: gosh, I love your solutions and ideas

    Combining these ideas, when she finally does give the NYT an interview, she could respond to each question with “When Donald Trump was asked a similar question, he said….” then read, verbatim, one of his incoherent five-minute sharks-and-Hannibal rambles. Then finish up with “Obviously I don’t agree, but let’s move on.”

  125. 125.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @TaMara: Well, the AP is not using what I taught in school. Statement may have applications beyond punctuation.

  131. 131.

    Ken

    @Gloria DryGarden: gosh, I love your solutions and ideas

    I am famed for thinking outside the box.

    For example, having (as I feared) gotten no consensus on the “possessive of Harris” question, I have decided to use the construct “the Harris campaign” from now on. I may still run into some awkwardness (“Doug Emhoff, the Harris husband”) but I’ll deal with that as it comes.

  133. 133.

    Mousebumples

    @RaflW: I was at the first post switcheroo rally in Milwaukee (West Allis). That was a high school gym. I can’t imagine the energy in the room at a 10K or 15K arena!!

    Per a friend who grew up in Dirty Tallis, that gym (her old HS) is the biggest one in the area. So if the needed to upgrade max capacity, they’d go to that school’s gym. (*tho not quite pro sports arena size)

  136. 136.

    TaMara

    One thing I will note, the added S may be because of text-to-speech technology – it does not recognize that apostrophe unless there is another S after it. So you don’t hear the possessive.

    Still makes me twitch.

  138. 138.

    M31

    Walz is coming along with the stump speech style. It must be hard to get a crowd this large under control, and his timing isn’t perfect.

    But the crowd is loving it and they really want this

  144. 144.

    Ken

    @TaMara: Do you write fantasy?  You could really mess with your editor by using names with glottal stops, represented by an apostrophe.  What’s the possessive of Te’ako’as’ ?

  145. 145.

    Mousebumples

    @Mousebumples: https://benjamindreyer.substack.com/p/possession-revisited

    Going forward, we will be sure to speak of Tim Walz’s vice presidential candidacy.

    Tim, Gwen, and the kids are the Walzes.

    The Walzes’ home is in St. Paul, Minn.

    The campaign of Kamala Harris and Tim Walz is Harris and Walz’s campaign, because they share it. We might otherwise speak of Harris’s and Walz’s (respective) families.

    What could be simpler?

    Meanwhile, the unofficial Minnesota state dish is referred to as hot dish or hot dish.

  149. 149.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @CaseyL: This is according to my elementary and high school education in the 80s and 90s. I know there are many style guides out there with different recommendations.

    I recall a college creative writing class I dropped because my teacher insisted on particular comma rules that would have cluttered writing up with redundant marks. For example, she would require a comma paired with any occurrence of “and.”

    I was taught a comma can replace a conjunction and a comma would be redundant if only one such conjunction was used. Likewise, no commas should be necessary if the conjunction was used explicitly in each instance. Examples:

    I would like apples or pears, please.

    I bought tissues, personal lubricant, and new velvet cushions.

    The courses comprised tea and biscuits, soup and salad, roast lamb and wine, and  a baked Alaska for dessert.

    According to this teacher, only the second would be correct. I don’t even know how I would write the third according to her rules without making a mess. All are consistent with my primary schooling, however.

    She also ruled out all use of slang. This is strange in a class where people may have to write dialogue between characters.

    I dropped the class after the first assignment.

  150. 150.

    M31

    @Ken: lol and when the family matriarchs, the Te’ako’as’es and the Te’ako’as’es’s enemies clash, book 6 in the Te’ako’as’ Saga is gonna be LIT

  154. 154.

    BR

    I think Walz’s freewheeling style in his earlier speeches served him better — I think he’s trying to stick to the script more in Las Vegas. He is a great hype man though.

  158. 158.

    hells littlest angel

    I’ve watched so many of the rallies, I’m shouting out lines ahead of time.

     

    “I know Donald Trump’s type!”

  162. 162.

    Jackie

    @M31: I have a constant earworm from “mind your own business – and you won’t be minding mine.” Wish the Harris/Walz rallies would play that Hank Williams song when Walz is introduced and stepping up to the podium.

  166. 166.

    Nix Besser

    @Ken: In a way, I agree. But in another, it’s about time that the distinction is made. It’s well past time that we refer to the NCAA Men’s Basketball Championship, the FIFA Men’s World Cup, etc.

  168. 168.

    lamh47

    Audience starts to chant “lock him up” referring to trump. Harris shuts them down immediately saying, “hold on now. The courts will take care of that… we’re just going to beat him in November.”

    She’s so good at this!

  169. 169.

    CaseyL

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: ​

    I took a Copyediting and Proofing course through my workplace’s professional development program, since I might be reviving our Department’s newsletter.

    The text we used was The Copyeditor’s Handbook. It’s 400+ pages of tightly packed, well-organized, well written information on all things copywriting and editing. I recommend it highly.

  170. 170.

    Mousebumples

    https://bsky.app/profile/iboudreau.bsky.social/post/3kzfsozgu2w24

    CBC reporter straight up saying that Trump is confusing “asylum seekers” with the idea of insane asylums (either intentionally or not)

    They’re also saying that he’s lying about crowd sizes. It’s always shocking to watch Canadian news after months and months of American Kafka shit

    CBC anchor: “What do you make of Trump’s comments that Kamala Harris isn’t smart enough to sit down for a news interview”

    Guest: “He said that because he is a racist and misogynist”

    It’s nice to see this, just as a reality check – US media will legit treat you like you are crazy for believing this

  171. 171.

    BR

    Two of my favorite posts from today:

    Sometimes I think the question of this election is: Are we ready to live in the 21st century yet?

    https://bsky.app/profile/gothamgirlblue.com/post/3kzfkjdg4zt2a

    What if we weren’t afraid of the future? What if it’s full of really cool possibilities? Like a malaria vaccine and cruelty-free meat and solar powered everything and high speed rail and customizable cancer treatment and international space exploration and climate adjusted cities and UBI and —

    https://bsky.app/profile/gothamgirlblue.com/post/3kzfleafpfz2e

  172. 172.

    Matt McIrvin

    @CaseyL: Stump speeches were never intended to be heard repeatedly–they just predate a world in which you could easily watch complete recordings of the versions of the same rally that played in Philly, Mesa and Detroit.

  177. 177.

    Princess

    @Steve LaBonne: I mean, we just learned Trump accepted a ten million dollar bribe from a former dictator in 2916 and that story vanished almost immediately without causing a dent so I don’t know what could be damaging. And he can trust the news media to clean up after him anyway.

  178. 178.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @CaseyL: I believe the style guide I was taught from was called the MLA. I’ll check yours out if I can find it for free.😁

  180. 180.

    BR

    I dunno why, but I can’t watch Harris’s speeches in real time — same reason I couldn’t watch Biden’s. I want to know that it all went ok and so I wait until after the rally is done.

  184. 184.

    David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch

    They’re rebranding Dobbs as “the Trump abortion ban”

    Brilliant

    Hang it on him like an anvil.

  185. 185.

    EM

    @lamh47:seriously? The guy who lost the NBA Championship 6 of 10 times, shoots 30% from the field if he’s not making a layup a dunk or a putback, doesn’t play defense, shoots under 75% from the line, shot in the 65percent one season, and is atrocious in the clutch. Not even a top 10 player. It’s an insult to mention this whining choker in the same breath with someone as Jordan or even magic or Kobe for that matter

  186. 186.

    KatKapCC

    @TS: It’s already nigh impossible. Most doctors refuse to do it if you’re young and don’t have kids, or if you don’t have a husband who says it’s okay. It’s patronizing because they insist “Oh you silly little lady, you’ll want babies one day!” and also they are scared little chickens because they’re so sure you’re going to sue them for it later if you change your mind.

  187. 187.

    Mike E

    Women’s 4x400m relay resembled Secretariat at the Belmont in ’73…it was over in the 2nd leg

  188. 188.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @KatKapCC: they’re so sure you’re going to sue them for it later if you change your mind.

    Suppose they denied you then you got an unwanted pregnancy? Would this not also be cause for a lawsuit?

  191. 191.

    Mousebumples

    @TS: Unfortunately, probably on their list

    There are lists going around of doctors that will do these procedures for young women, unmarried women, childless women, etc., if anyone knows of someone who wants such a procedure

    Anyhow, it’s pumpkin time here, after a busy day. Take care, Juicers!

  192. 192.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @KatKapCC:

    and also they are scared little chickens because they’re so sure you’re going to sue them for it later if you change your mind. 

    What grounds would anyone have to sue if there was a signed informed consent form?

  193. 193.

    catclub

    @KatKapCC: I want her to tell anecdotes about helicopter rides  with more and more unlikely people, which she was on  that nearly crashed. then a giant wink.

  194. 194.

    TS

    @KatKapCC:

    or if you don’t have a husband who says it’s okay

    I had this issue on the other side of the world – could not believe I needed my husband’s permission. At least he understood – sign the papers for this – or sign the papers for a divorce.

  196. 196.

    matt

    I think the most positive thing I saw today for November chances was the piece about donors questioning Trump about Vance, about his strategy, and Trump doubling down on noxious stuff like his attacks on Harris not being black enough for him. But I saw a few other pieces of good news today, obviously the thing about the leak to Politico and WashPost of HisEmails is up there as well.

  197. 197.

    CaseyL

    @Matt McIrvin: ​

    This is true.

    But I’ve been a politics junkie since the early 1970s, and in all that time can only think of a handful of speeches that really moved me.

    And chants… I actively dislike chants. Did a bunch as an anti-war (Vietnam) marcher, and even back then felt like an idiot imitating a broken record.

    It’s me, I know. Nothing against the speechifiers or the people who enjoy them.

  198. 198.

    TS

    @Mousebumples:

    There are lists going around of doctors that will do these procedures for young women, unmarried women, childless women, etc.,

    Dear heavens, in the 1960s we had these lists for such groups wanting to get an abortion. How some things never change for women in a misogynistic world.

  200. 200.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: in Eats Shoots and Leaves, there is a hilarious discussion of comma use. Someone wrote to James Thurber about why there was a certain comma in a sentence, and James wrote back that his editors added it so there was time for the people in the sentence to push in their chairs and collect themselves before walking to the next room. It’s worth a read.

    you could tell Thurber was not pleased about that extra comma.

  202. 202.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Gloria DryGarden: Writing should be clear in its meaning and not have any unnecessary adornment. Punctuation is meant to help you read, not to confuse.

    Also, too, so many new books for my wishlist.

  204. 204.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Omnes Omnibus: yes, it is a rather interesting choice for the example. Although I don’t mind the velvet cushions, depending on what color they are.
    I bought macaroni, ginger sauce, a tin of yellow fin tuna, and a spatula.

  205. 205.

    KrackenJack

    @Ken: I wouldn’t underestimate the longevity of athletes in the Olympics. For example: Isabell Werth, German equestrian. Eight gold medals between 1992–2024.

  206. 206.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @eclare: now you’ve got me all curious

    That local station reporter in CO asked much better questions as a moderator in the Republican debate for a House seat than any of the big network reporters have.  Can’t remember his name now.

    which day, was it in Denver, was it about the race w Lauren boebert in it? Male or female reporter ?

  214. 214.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @lamh47: we go low, they go high, bringing us higher. It’s nice to elevate one’s mindset. After all the low, deeply difficult, downer stuff, I’ve been going low myself, and it isn’t the best place to live from.
    (too many commas?)

  216. 216.

    KatKapCC

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Their medical malpractice lawyers think the woman would claim that she didn’t understand, or was pushed into it, or wasn’t of sound mind, or whatever else. It’s probably all BS, but that’s the legal profession and the medical profession for you.

  218. 218.

    Ken

    @Fair Economist: I can’t figure out how to glottal stop a sibilant.

    Of course not. It’s an Elvish (Orcish, Vulcan, …) name. Humans can’t pronounce it.

    @CaseyL: I think with sibilants, it’s a click not a glottal stop.

    Oooh, even better for annoying the editor.  “What’s the plural possessive of T’cha!eXosǂ ?”

  219. 219.

    karen marie

    @lamh47:   I’ve never donated as much to a candidate as I’ve donated to Harris since she became the candidate.  Imma hafta pace myself.  I bought a T-shirt from the campaign today.  That will have to do until after the convention.

  222. 222.

    Mike E

    @EM: stfu

    James is the all-time leading scorer in NBA history and ranks fourth in career assists, has won four Most Valuable Player (MVP) Awards, four Finals MVP Awards, three All-Star Game MVP Awards, and was named the inaugural NBA Cup MVP. He has been named an All-Star a record 20 times, selected to the All-NBA Team 20 times (including 13 First Team selections) and the All-Defensive Team six times, and was a runner-up for the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award twice in his career. Noted for his longevity, James is currently the oldest player in the NBA. After his son Bronny was drafted in 2024, James became part of the first active father-son duo in NBA history.

  223. 223.

    Trivia Man

    @EM: I agree with lamh47 – LeBron is GOAT. Wins everywhere with a variety of supporting casts, makes plays of all kinds that other players can’t make, and stays steady.

    Jordan was a great player but I discount his 6 titles. How many did he win without Pippen? How many without Phil Jackson?

  225. 225.

    Trivia Man

    @TS: I have read stories from UNMARRIED women who were denied the procedure because “what if your future husband wants kids?”

  226. 226.

    Ken

    @karen marie: That would be silly, when he knows how frequently the Mar-a-Lago basement floods, completely destroying the security — What? Excuse me….

    Hmm.

    I am informed that Trump’s underlings were not, in fact, able to figure out how to flood the basement and destroy the security tapes. But in principle it could flood, and then what would happen to all the records of how donations were spent?

  228. 228.

    wjca

    @3Sice:

    IOU:
    Bozeman Airport $12k
    Billings PD $58,830

    I wonder if they can bill Sheehy, since Trump was coming to support him.

  229. 229.

    ginkgo

    I rarely comment although I am a daily reader, but the discussion about women and tubal ligations involves my field. Have been in obstetrics/gynecology for 42 years and have practiced in Alabama for 38 years.

    The number of women in my practice requesting permanent sterilization has at least doubled since Rov vs Wade was overturned. I am doing at least two of these procedures a week now with an increased number of women with no children. Also, seeing more couples where each one gets some permanent procedure performed.

  231. 231.

    Trivia Man

    @wjca: Just do like bill collectors always do – strong arm anyone even remotely connected to the deadbeat and imply that they ARE also legally on the hook. Of course he is too smart to fall for that as a legal argument but some public pressure could make him pay the debt in order to stop that as a talking point in the election.

  232. 232.

    Trivia Man

    @ginkgo: Thank you for your service. You are a lifeline for so many living in a precarious place. Compassionate and helpful medical care is something many of us take for granted, but not everyone has that option.

  234. 234.

    Lyrebird

    @ginkgo: Thank you and let me join the chorus of thanks.  I wish my magic wand could wave the dangerous controversy etc away from you doing your work to care for your patients’ health.

    I can only pray that this nightmare GOP ticket finally shatters their illusion that they are pro-family, and that you fare well.

  236. 236.

    hueyplong

    @Mike E: You do know that Jordan played for the Bulls in the playoffs in 1995, right? It wasn’t just Pippen losing that year.

  239. 239.

    KatKapCC

    @Trivia Man: Yeppp. Happened to two of my friends. Doctors infantilize the heck out of women. A lot of them really think grown women are still just silly little girls who don’t know anything.

  241. 241.

    jonas

    @lamh47: ​ Best of all, that half billion in donations isn’t going to be immediately sequestered to pay for defending the candidate against numerous felony indictments.

  242. 242.

    BR

    The thing about vibes is that you can only keep riding them as long as you believe them. Asking whether you can really ride the vibes any longer helps ensure you can’t. Embrace the vibes and fly and don’t look down.

    Vibes are like democracy: they’re real precisely because you believe they’re real. Asking if they’re not real is like taking a sledgehammer to them. Don’t do that.

    https://bsky.app/profile/figgityfigs.bsky.social/post/3kzfxzb6eht2r

  243. 243.

    jonas

    @wjca: ​ Lol. They’re not getting paid shit. The Trump campaign will tell them they should be grateful “for all the exposure.”

  244. 244.

    Chet Murthy

    @BR: The Big Lie works against policy: hell, it was *invented* to attack opponents on policy.  But I think it works much less well on vibes.  I don’t have to like that, to acknowledge it.  It is what it is.

  245. 245.

    TS

    @ginkgo:

    Also, seeing more couples where each one gets some permanent procedure performed.

    It has always been my philosophy that the person who does not want more children has the procedure.  (I don’t want/expect another person to do this for me)

    Is it easier (legally) for a man than a woman in your state?

  248. 248.

    dm

    Watergirl was right Brian Cohen’s commentary is very good — he doesn’t speak over the speaker, but the gaps between speakers he had great commentary.

    And, like the commentariat here has been saying regarding stump speeches, he’s pointed out that the speeches have been changing since streaming has meant that people are seeing the stump speeches.

    One thing Cohen pointed out is that these rallies are including down ballot candidates and putting them in front of these growing crowds.

    Loved the “summer job at a McDonald’s”.

    Love the “this election is about the future”, “do we believe in the promise of America!?”

  249. 249.

    BR

    I just realized that the intersection of crypto bros and the Trump campaign means one thing: whenever a crypto company starts getting in trouble, they rug pull: they try stuffing their pockets as fast as possible and head for the exits. Trump’s campaign and the RNC are entirely grift operations, and the grifters in on it are going to start trying to rug pull — stuff their pockets with the campaign dough as fast as they can. It’s self fulfilling. We need to help them along.

  250. 250.

    Citizen Alan

    @HumboldtBlue: I am genuinely shocked to learn that AOL still exists. I still have memories of trying to download email off of AO-Hell at 14bps late at night at my parents house.

  251. 251.

    dm

    Cohen also said earlier that TikTok videos have been 90% anti-Trump, 10% pro-Trump while Harris videos reverse that ratio (90% pro, 10% anti).

    He also mentioned ground game — few Trump field offices, many Harris (Harris has more field offices in Pennsylvania than Trump has in the entire country.

  252. 252.

    VFX Lurker

    @lamh47: WAYYYYYY off topic…I’m doing a rewatch of XMen97 series.  I’m sure ya’ll talked about it before, but damn this show was legit my FAVORITE series, animated and not this past television season!

    Best. Theme music. EVER

  253. 253.

    Jackie

    @karen marie: 😂

    TCFG accused Biden of campaigning from his basement during Covid.

    Now TCFG is campaigning from his basement from MAL. And Covid isn’t the scare it was in 2020.

    TCFG is just running 🐓💩 period.

  254. 254.

    Citizen Alan

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):  It’s the result of Marvel’s schizophrenic approach to its major heroes dating back to the 60’s. The Avengers and the Fantastic Four were so beloved by the public that they were given the legal right to fly sci-fi jets and even rockets out of the heart of Manhattan, and Reed was allowed to keep completely unregulated portals to alternate dimensions in his basement with no problem. The X-Men were so feared and hated that the government spent billions of dollars creating genocidal robots to send after them after repeated incidents of the robots (Sentinels) going rogue and deciding to kill humans as well as mutants. And the only difference between the two groups was in the fact that the X-Men got their powers through an inborn genetic abnormality and the Avengers/FF got their from other means. And for pretty much half-a-century, the Avengers comics never addressed anti-mutant bigotry or even acknowledged its existence, not even when former X-Men joined the Avengers!  As early as the 70s, Beast was an Avenger and he suddenly was not hated and feared for his mutant powers, even though he was now a blue-furred animalistic being, whereas during his X-Men days, he was just a strong, agile guy with really big feet. So when events forced the X-Men and Avengers to interact, there was often a “WTF” reaction to how oblivious the Avengers were to life as a mutant.

  255. 255.

    Ivan X

    @Citizen Alan: AOL is now owned by Verizon Media (formerly Oath), who make a ton of money off mostly older people still paying  monthly, even though they don’t need to be, because those customers never changed their billing to the free service level. (Yahoo is also owned by Verizon Media.)

  256. 256.

    Citizen Alan

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:  I used to follow a Tumblr blog about Stephanie Meyers and the Twilight series (the blogger was not a fan) who not only ripped the series for it’s awful plot and characterizations but also for the fact that it apparently received no editing at all and, worse, Stephanie Meyers apparently thought commas were purely decorative and should be thrown in anywhere they might make a sentence look prettier or something.

  257. 257.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Ken: and there I was hoping for some hurricane flooding. But first, get the important information out of there. I guess.
    my silly imaginings..

  258. 258.

    PatD

    Vance is such a great target for Dems. I’m sure Trump wishes he had picked someone else. His narcissism kept him from picking anyone who dared run against him but Haley would have been a good choice for him politically.

  259. 259.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @wjca: the guy needs to prepay for any further security or services anywhere. Can they require it, or refuse?

    freedom of speech, sure, but he doesn’t have the right to requisition police, and space uses and local services , does he?

  260. 260.

    dm

    I’m sure the speculation that Trump’s rally in Montana had him land his plane in Billings because he still owed money to Bozeman, where the result was held had been suited here. Here’s a local station reporting on Trump’s unpaid bills:

    https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/trumps-bozeman-rally-highlights-unpaid-costs-from-past-montana-visits

    This has morphed into speculation that part of the reason he’s not holding rallies is because he stiffed so many venues in 2016 and 2020 that they can’t find a place to hold rallies. Combine this with an understandable reluctance to hold outdoor rallies in late summer (especially not after an assassination attempt), and…. Well, schadenfreude.

  261. 261.

    Jackie

    @KatKapCC: I was 35, divorced with two children – youngest was six – when I requested a tubal ligation. Male OB/GYN asked me “what if I met the ‘perfect man’? My response was he’d pay for my parents to watch my kiddos while he took me around the world on a cruise.” I got my tubes tied AND burnt.

  262. 262.

    jonas

    @Ken: ​ I think his plane diverted the other night because it was having mechanical problems. Maybe it’s still being fixed or whatever. You’d think this Mellon guy could just send his own jet to pick Trump up or something, but I don’t know how these billionaire assholes think.

  263. 263.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Citizen Alan:

    That’s about right. The way I see it, the X-Men should be in their own separate continuity from the rest of Marvel. They don’t work with the rest of world. The Avengers, FF, Spider-Man, etc, would absolutely not stand by and let the Mutants be genocided. To suggest otherwise would be character assassination. But of course, given the nature of comics, they can never intervene in any serious way because doing so would disrupt the status quo (hated and feared) for the X-Men.

    It should’ve never been acknowledged in-universe that the other heroes don’t help out; I think the way it used to be handwaved was that they were all busy with serious matters, so couldn’t help. Now, when other characters appear in an X-Book, they get to be bashed and strawmanned for not intervening by the self-righteous mutants. Then the godawful  X-Fans do the same online, while not understanding that these are fictional characters that have no agency and the misery porn of the last 15 years for the X-Men comics has been bad writing decisions. Seriously, Marvel tried to kill X-Men as a franchise and replace them with the Inhumans because Fox had the movie rights and they didn’t.

    Thanks to poor creative decisions of the last 20 years in the comics, the X-Men have become a weird Master Race during the Krakoa era who are going to supplant baseline humanity in a matter of a few years and subjugate them in the meantime. But that’s progressive, the writers and fanbase tell us! Racial separatism is good when the mutants do it! Imperialism is good when the mutants do it! Megacorporations are good when mutants lead them! It’s okay to have supervillains (literal Nazis and genocidal monsters) on your undemocratic ruling council because they have the X-Gene! They’re a race metaphor, so if you think what they’re doing is wrong then you’re a racist and a dumb flatscan!

    Like look at this shit

    Remind you of anything problematic?

    Or this, where Magneto, a founder of Krakoa, literally declares mutants are humanity’s new gods in Jerusalem of all places to diplomats

  264. 264.

    Splitting Image

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    It should’ve never been acknowledged in-universe that the other heroes don’t help out; I think the way it used to be handwaved was that they were all busy with serious matters, so couldn’t help. Now, when other characters appear in an X-Book, they get to be bashed and strawmanned for not intervening by the self-righteous mutants.

    It was fine in the early 60s when hardly anybody in-universe knew that mutants existed. The on-going story arc was that most mutants stayed on the down-low because people would freak out, not that they were freaking out.

    This changed over the years. By the mid-80s, mutants were “shoot on sight” for a lot of people. At that point it was becoming a serious problem that the other heroes did nothing about the hysteria.

    The X-books these days are where Marvel sticks their bad writers when they have too many of them on staff to put them all on the Spider-Man books.

  265. 265.

    wjca

    @jonas: Of course they’re not getting paid.

    But folks in Montana tend to have strong opinions on people who welsh on their debts.  (With some tolerance for those who hit a bit of bad luck and honestly can’t.)  Don’t know if it will be quite enough, by itself, for Trump to lose Montana.  But Sheehy may suddenly find himself regretting having asked Trump to come campaign for him.

  267. 267.

    wjca

    @Gloria DryGarden: but he doesn’t have the right to requisition police, and space uses and local services , does he?

    He can’t force owners of spaces/venues to let him use their places.  But if he comes to town, the police will end up running overtime costs, just to handle traffic issues from him being in the area.  Security they can insist the Secret Service deal with on their own.  (And, after the assassination attempt fiasco, I expect increasing numbers of local law enforcement will do just that.)   But traffic is something they’re stuck with.

  270. 270.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    @lamh47: i figure the thread is dead, but i’ll give it a shot. i dunno, i thought the first few episodes of x-men 97 were REALLY bad. like, laugh-out-loud bad. the dialogue and writing were just appalling, like, they crammed literally FIFTY issues of magneto’s character arc and comic-continuity into episode one, which was the trend for the entire series. if you weren’t familiar with the source material, it must have been bafflingly incomprehensible.

    … and there were definitely better things live action (eg: shogun) or animated (eg: batman: caped crusader) on tv.

    the one thing i WILL say is that they subtly shifted away from the clunky art-style that the original series stole/pastiched from bruce timm’s DCAU shows, so by the end of the run it was actually somewhat pretty

    @EM: let’s just say that the numbers don’t support your analysis (unless you am from bizarro-world) as, for one thing, the two-time runner-up, DPOY shot .410 from 3 last year.

  271. 271.

    Shalimar

    @Ken: Diana Taurasi will get her 6th gold medal if the US women beat France.   She already has golds in 3 different decades.  There are probably at least a few other women who have done it too.

  273. 273.

    cain

     

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    I saw the first episode and I liked it because it copied the Batman: The animated series in its style but had some interesting artistic changes like Penguin being a woman. That was neat. Curious to see what stories that would generate.

  274. 274.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): a) magneto was right about human/mutant co-existence and a good chunk of the krakoa era is charles repeatedly stepping on rakes as he resists gaming out the ramifications of just  how far the humans on earth-616 will take that grudge and act on it.

    also, dude, you need to go back and re-read your days of future past. most of the avengers and ff become targets of the sentinels because they specifically TRY to help out and get cut down. later, the meta-humans become victims of ahab, of nimrod and the other various hunters from alternate futures. that’s been one of the reoccurring themes, that, in the heat of conflict, humanity won’t stop to discern the difference between mutie and meta-human.

  275. 275.

    Bostondreams

    @strange visitor (from another planet):

    Mr. Sinister was the most enjoyable he had been in years during the Krakoa stuff. The whole Sinsterized X-Men was interesting and I wish they did more with it. Hope Summers becoming a hard core gun nut who ends being sacrificed by Exodus, supposedly her most devoted disciple, because she made a better holy martyr than a living savior honestly made me laugh. Said so much. :P

  276. 276.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    @Bostondreams: sinsiter would almost HAVE to be more entertaining now. claremont’s original concept of the character is COMPLETELY absurd and has GOT to be one of his more memorable missteps from the dude’s entire creative run.

  279. 279.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    @Bostondreams: oh definitely!

    also, not to get too deep into the weeds, but artificially augmented, chimera characters like the amazing rasputin IV resonate with me and IMO work SO much better than the baffling and somewhat silly “naural” secondary mutations (that always seemed to come completely out of left field) ever did.

  280. 280.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @Citizen Alan: In my professional life, style always, always takes a back seat to unambiguity. For me, that means the Oxford comma stays even if style guides don’t like it. Hell, one time someone here front-paged one of my rants about sparse and inconsistent use of commas.

    Commas are linguistic rivets, not tinsel, in that it matters where they go, and you get in trouble if you don’t use enough of them.

  283. 283.

    jayne

    @MazeDancer:

    He’s been nervous about flying ever since he was in that plane crash with Buddy Holly and the Big Bopper. The last thing JP ever said to him was “Mister Trump, Sir, please don’t let Kamalabamba be a president.” Then the sharks electrocuted the plane.

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