She was clearly at the center of the effort to convince Biden to quit. Her appearance on Morning Joe shortly after Biden issued his letter stating that he’s staying in the race, where she said it was “his decision”, was a turning point. She claims that she didn’t call people (specifically not Schumer), but like the relationship where someone is the person who kisses and someone is the person kissed, people called her.
And it was all because we must win – Trump cannot be in the White House again. She was laser focused on that, and events so far have shown that she was right.
Pelosi has a book, and she’s giving interviews. Here’s a good one with Ezra Klein (video podcast). Here’s David Remnick’s interview in the New Yorker. The podcast especially is worth a listen, because when she’s not scripted, she’s a great combination of Catholic Baltimore mom (uses “poopy” and the bill was “a stinker”) and just cutthroat politician.
ALurkSupreme
Should be a fun thread!
Baud
@ALurkSupreme:
Time to practice my Duolingo.
Steve LaBonne
I think she really could go a bit easier on the victory laps.
piratedan
Pelosi certainly has “skin” in the game and I can understand pragmatically that this is serious shit and maybe 30 years ago, there’s no urgency to get Biden off the ticket because the Media more or less plays fair and the political opponents aren’t outright fascists who have publicly promised it will be open season on their political opponents. Obviously not the case these days, and if DJT returns to office, the motherfucker would likely make public execution of his enemies a primetime TV show.
WaterGirl
I may go hide in the bunker.
Lapassionara
I will not rest easy until we have Harris/Walz inaugurated and in office.
TF79
@ALurkSupreme: Right-for-the-wrong-reasons battling Wrong-for-the-right-reasons for all eternity
LAC
@Steve LaBonne: I think she really could go a bit easier on the victory laps.
So could some here, but where would the fun be in that? At least Biden’s choice was honored. That is his victory.
VFX Lurker
Smart. I’m going to go write Postcards to Voters and skip the comments in this thread.
KatKapCC
I’m torn. I have always liked and admired Pelosi, and I do understand the “anything to win” mentality in the present situation. I just…it makes me sad how it all went down, and I wish it could have gone differently. But I don’t know how.
BR
@Lapassionara:
Neither will I. I’m waiting on the 1000 postcards to swing states — hopefully they’ll get here in a week or so and we can start cranking on those.
hells littlest angel
Nancy Pelosi answers the question: What if Margaret Thatcher had been a decent human being?
Josie
@WaterGirl:
Good choice. Seems like a good time to write more post cards.
RandomMonster
When I saw her interviewed and she didn’t give an endorsement of Biden staying on the ticket, I knew the polling must have been really, really bad.
I’m so relieved that we’re not where we were three weeks ago. I haven’t felt that kind of gloom in a long time.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
“Biden is to old” really means “Biden isn’t the right kind of person for president post Dobs” pity the people pushing the candidate change were being to clever for their own good. Still, all well that ends well.
HinTN
We’re all so fucking smart.
Another Scott
Her book, about 4 critical events she was part of, IIRC, was obviously in the work months before the events with Biden at the debate. Her publisher booking her everywhere is a standard part of book promotion.
Mary Louise Kelly had her on NPR ATC a few days ago about it. Didn’t ask her much at all about the book (at least in that segment). Pelosi seemed a little pissed off that she wasn’t able to talk about it much at all.
(The segment the next day talked about the book more.)
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
USA, USA!!!!
Josie
@raven:
My sons in the tv room just yelled so loud that the corgi tried to climb in my lap.
Damien
Honestly, as someone who was VERY angry about how Biden was treated, and who felt that he was shivved by some in our party (perhaps Pelosi?), I’m going to say that I really can’t disagree with the need to win. Nancy Pelosi has rarely misstepped, and quite frankly her halfhearted interview did give me pause for that exact reason. She knows how to count, and something somewhere said to her that we were in a rougher position with Biden.
I hate it, because I was unreservedly wrong about the actual outcome, but I’m not going to begrudge the people who almost certainly worked WITH Biden to make this transition as successful as it has been.
Baud
Is anyone doing post cards to swing states? The website says you just hold on to them until October. Is that correct?
JML
Steph Curry is a baaaaad man.
eclare
@raven:
USA USA!!!
And it was the older dudes who came through!
eclare
@Baud:
My instructions say to mail them on October 15th. Mine go to NC.
eclare
@JML:
Eight threes….damn.
Baud
@eclare:
Thanks.
Josie
@Baud:
Yes. I’m writing to Nevada, and my instructions are to mail them on October 15.
JML
@eclare: That last one was absurd. A classic “no one can stop me!” three.
Baud
@Josie:
Thanks.
Jeffro
go easier and wait a bit – late November, say? once the orange turd is flushed
for goodas best we can flush him for good?oh well – even the great ones have their flaws. on the whole, I’ll roll with it
Enhanced Voting Techniques
It’s not just the need to win, it’s what to do if we do. SCOTUS really fucking things up with their Cavalier Sealed Knot LARPing. As former prosecutor Harris really has the kind of legal background to deal with this.
ColoradoGuy
Even though I was Ridin’ With Biden 100%, none of us wanted to see not just the FTFNYT, but *all* their media pals ride their hobby-horse all the way to a catastrophic election. The media has shown us their asses, with Lawrence O’Donnell drawing attention to the Kim Jung Un levels of bootlicking they have for the GOP. It’s clear the FTFNYT actively want a brutal dictatorship, and will control the narrative to get what they want.
Kamala and Walz have flipped the script in a way they didn’t expect. They keep trying to yank it back into the pre-written narrative, but it isn’t working, and Democrats are delighted to see it.
Frankensteinbeck
If I thought Pelosi set Biden up, I’d be angry. I am confident that Pelosi saw polling going to Hell and realized that Biden leaving was the only way to win. She has made it plain many times that she does not care about pride, she cares about getting things done. She reacted in the ruthless way I depend on her for, in response to a horrible situation created by other people. I am mostly angry with the press, with some for the on-the-ground and on-tv liberals who instantly freaked out and gave the press their chance.
If anybody predicted that the rebound for Kamala would be this good, they were damned few and I didn’t hear them. I am thankful that the big risk that replaced certain doom paid off.
raven
2 cents. It was a stone set-up. Joe knew he couldn’t win and he set them assholes up like a bowling pin and it worked like a charm.
Baud
@raven:
That would be a hell of a autobiography if Joe reveals that.
Ohio Mom
@KatKapCC: Ditto. I hope Biden gives a thoughtful speech at the convention that somehow assuages all my ambivalence on his behalf. I feel bad for him even as I love the result.
Josie
@Frankensteinbeck:
You wrote exactly how I have been feeling and was not able to express. Thank you.
Sister Golden Bear
I guess we’re gonna be relitigating this until the heat death of the universe aren’t we…. I’m off to do important things like clean my toilet.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@raven: what exactly led to Joe Biden’s decision and when he made it I don’t know. I will bet that he had a big part in engineering the support for Kamala Harris.
hueyplong
The last of Curry’s 4 threes in the last couple of minutes was a total heat check. No one else makes that one. The release was absurdly quick.
No One of Consequence
Mad props and respect to Nancy Smash. Truly.
Now, in light of recent events, you’re looking pretty old Nancy. You should probably take the hint and retire.
Never turn your back on Pelosi. Victory (let’s hope not Pyrrhic) may result, God Willing, but Trust is blown past the horizon. “AND ALL THE REST…”
If she runs, I will support her primary opponent(s). I don’t forget and I don’t forgive. I am also not alone.
Why doesn’t she arm in arm with Schiff and take a long walk of a short pier?
Fuckers.
-NOoC
Kay
I think she’s retiring too, in an orderly and planned fashion. First the succession plan for the leadership role in the House then the farewell book and then she retires. I thought she wanted to retire in 2022 but if would have looked like she was running away from a tough midterm so she stayed.
different-church-lady
No no no, you’re supposed to say, “She was clearly at the center of the effort to force Biden out,” as though there were no difference between those two things.
Baud
@hueyplong:
You could hear the stadium deflate.
Mousebumples
@hueyplong: it was nuts. And what I’m dreaming #DameTime might bring to MKE with a full off season together.
Frank Wilhoit
“…events so far have shown that she was right….”
She was neither right nor wrong. She took a gamble. Just now, it looks like it is paying off.
different-church-lady
@hueyplong: That dude… [shakes head]
Jackie
@KatKapCC:
I definitely hear you and share your thoughts. I know one thing, though: We can ALL BLAME TCFG.😡
Saving our country and democracy is #1.
Pelosi knows this.
And, now I’m going to watch preseason football.
KatKapCC
Hey, remember when they used My Heart Will Go On at the Trump/Vance rally and I was wondering what Celine thought about it?
She is not pleased:
These losers always think they can use whatever they want without permission. How many other artists have had to tell them to stop? I know Tom Petty’s estate did, for sure, probably many more.
KatKapCC
@Jackie: Yeah. Every awful thing in this country these days should be laid at his feet. I stubbed my toe this morning and I choose to blame him.
pat
I KNEW IT.
I knew that Nancy must have had a HUGE hand in this remarkable choice and I bet good old Joe is celebrating right now, as are we all!!!!!!!!
THANK YOU NANCY PELOSI FOR SAVING AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.
MagdaInBlack
@WaterGirl: Got room for 2 in there? I’ll bring ice cream 😉
ronno2018
If Harris Walz pull it off, I think Pelosi needs to be thought of as the Sam Rayburn of the 21st century. Well even (perhaps) if flying spaghetti monster forbid we lose in November.
divF
I’m going to repeat what I was saying a few weeks ago. The only people that had the political acumen and the patriotism to handle this correctly were Biden and his close colleagues*. I trusted them to do the right thing because they knew what both the odds and the stakes were. And they did do the right thing.
Most of the people who were bloviating about this (cough LGM cough) were not competent to second-guess them. I certainly wasn’t.
*Did you notice how many of the people who knew the right thing to do (i.e. support Biden until he decided to step aside) were women ? Harris, Pelosi, AOC, Omar – the latter two in spite of their policy differences with Biden?
lamh47
Can we at least now get folks to admit that Pelosi was for mini-primaries and an Open Convention? She said as she was in this interview.
Mini-primaries and open conventions!!!
SMH..now imagine how bad that would have been? Hell look at the Veepstakes imagine having to do that for top of the ticket…also again a way to bypass Kamala Harris, that is something I have no plans to forgive. And notice what made her get behind Kamala Harris is the way that almost instantly groups like CBC and even delegates coalesced around Harris that quickly. Biden in the end had the last laugh in this, cause he dropped his annoucement Beyonce’ style (i.e. surprise album announcements) and endorsed Harris in the same breath.
What I need Pelosi to do right now is get off this high horse and enough with the bull about Biden not taking her calls or some shit she implied in one of those CNN interviews.
rikyrah
All in for saving democracy…
But, post-election?
There is a reckoning coming😒😒😒
Take it any way you want
Kay
@semaforben
They are just so bad. I really think they are in a bubble on how bad they are. Twitter has been absolutely terrible for political journalists – it took their tendency to herd and just magnified it, times 20. They’re talking exclusively to each other. This industry should die and be completely revamped.
Quinerly
@Damien: 💙
Steve LaBonne
@ronno2018: She was already going to be. She was one of the greatest Speakers in our history.
Quinerly
@Frankensteinbeck:
💙💙
Kay
Pelosi is done – I listened to both interviews and she’s ready to retire. I think she was the front person deliberately for that reason – it allowed the rest (Schumer, Jeffries, Obama) to hang back, although obviously they’re as responsible as she is.
Mike E
@Frankensteinbeck:
@raven: I will support Joe Biden, the greatest president in my lifetime, come hell or high water, the man who stood in the way of that orange faced motherfucker. Always and forever. The 3D chess master who did more in four years than most presidents did in eight.
Nancy Pelosi will always be the greatest Speaker in US history, hands down. She has no more fucks to give and I am ever grateful for her standing up to that orange faced motherfucker.
People here and elsewhere are the kind of assholes we will always have to suffer from because of their insistence to be gatekeepers of every goddam thing, oh well. Fuggem.
Go Harris/Walz!
KatKapCC
@Kay: It also seems painfully apparent that journalists, especially those at big publications, just think they are so much smarter and wiser than the rest of us. So when the dirty plebeians criticize them, they just sigh and roll their eyes and explain how we just don’t understand and this is how journalism works and they’re doing their very important jobs and so on. They all think they’re going to be remembered forever, when probably 99% of them will be forgotten about by the public within a few years of their passing.
Eduardo
@Steve LaBonne: She is the American politician I admire most. She did the right thing, because, you know, the Republic is on the line.
But I am not liking the victory laps one bit. Unnecessary.
rodwell
I am a 100% Ridin with Biden. I believed Joe would have pulled it out in the end. I understand that the rest of the party was frightened, and Pelosi did what was best because defeating TFCG is the number one priority. However, I find the Pelosi victory lap completely distasteful. I am extremely happy that the Harris/Walz ticket changed this election completely. This is because Joe Biden put together a great team and it is a true test of leadership that the team excel even without you.
Quinerly
@pat:
Would love to hug you.
Subsole
@KatKapCC: The Stones did, too. Just…the audacity.
I mean, you gotta be one dense little brick to think you’re going to take liberties with Mister Jagger’s catalog.
Quinerly
@Mike E: 💙💙
Kay
@KatKapCC:
Just the cluelessness it takes to publicly post that they were brutally unfair to Clinton but now they have learned their lesson and will behave ethically for Trump. Jesus Christ. They have absolute contempt for their customers.
No accountability at all. No apology. We’re all just told they have miraculously learned their lesson just in time for them to try to re-install the douchebag they all admire.
They’re going to lose this election no matter how hard they try to spin it for Trump. Everyone’s sick of him, and them too.
Anyway
Looks like there was a media tour scheduled for her book release. One way to not field questions on the topic (aka victory lap) would have been to cancel her appearances—which was doable I spose
Gin & Tonic
@pat: The election has already taken place? How did I miss that?
zhena gogolia
@raven: I like your interpretation!
Subsole
@KatKapCC:
These people should, frankly, be grateful we’re not going to remember them, given the shoddiness of their work and the body counts attached to it.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic: 😂
Baud
I thankfully missed most of the drama. Winning is the most important thing, and no one is indispensable, and I’m pleased as punch at the positive signs with Kamala and Walz. But if Biden’s polling dropped because he came out as an atheist rather than because he showed his age, more people would have a bad taste in their mouths about the whole thing, and that’s how I feel.
Thankfully, Kamala’s hands are clean and its her instead of someone else. The only thing left to do between now and November is finish the job.
KatKapCC
@Kay: “No accountability”. That nails it. They want all the glory and none of the responsibility. Only praise, never reproach.
schrodingers_cat
@lamh47: Cosigned. Pelosi wanted both Biden and Harris out.
The same people who are now gloating about how masterful Pelosi was, reached for their fainting couches when I suggested it after Schiff dropped his letter.
Biden played this masterfully by endorsing KH after he withdrew.
BTW
schrodingers_cat
Deleted Double comment
Kay
Just FYI, there’s a piece interviewing Anita Dunn where Dunn defends her decisions in the Biden campaign and says Democratic leadership were wrong that he was going to lose. Pelosi isn’t the only one talking. Biden’s team is too.
The longtime presidential adviser blames the press and her party.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: that’s about it
KatKapCC
@Subsole: My partner’s niece once said she would take a leak on Haberman’s grave. I was going to tell her that was inappropriate, but then I thought…you know, can’t hurt.
Starfish
That podcast is interesting. Pelosi said that she was surprised by Biden dropping out that Sunday. That perfect timing to take the wind out of the sails of the RNC after the morning shows were over and endorsing Harris was all Biden. The man did an amazing job.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: My feelings exactly.
Kay
For myself, I’m glad Anita Dunn has moved on. She’s worked for every Democrat since Clinton and in between administrations she’s done work like lobbying on behalf of for profit colleges. Time to go.
rodwell
Also, the complete disrespect to MVP during this period. The media and pundits wanted a quick primary or open convention so it can be Democrats in Disarray. They all forgot there was a strong number two already in place to take over. I mean maybe the Harris people did not play the game during this period because they were being loyal. It worked to their benefit because no one of being the one with the knife.
Kay
@Starfish:
Ezra Klein is a great interviewer. He very gently gets people to really talk, which is not about talking but listening.
Subsole
@Kay:
I think a lot of it is that the office culture in our prestige media seems to be built around the idea that all those good ol’ countree folk out in flyoverland are realer. Simpler. Honester. Authenticer.
Basically, the owners, editors and shareholders are deep into the fantasy of Republican voters as the White Noble Savage. I suspect it might tie back to internalized insecurity over doing work that is coded as “soft” or “brainy”. Basically, Trumpism appeals to them because they share a lot of the same insecurities as, say, your common Elons Musk. That is pure conjecture on my part, though.
Look at the oft-expressed and almost constantly implied assumption that Trump voters are all illiterate, down-home trailer trash. The average Trumper is no such thing. They’re the fucking petty gentry. The press wants to pretend Republicans are the Duke family when they are actually Boss Hogg.
This is, of course, insane.
prostratedragon
@raven: I halfway think that’s it. He’s much more wiley than he might seem, and a little mischievous, in a good way.
Subsole
@KatKapCC:
Oh, I still haven’t forgiven those assholes for The Great Mesopotamian Fuckup of my youth.
Media was broken well before Trump, but my god did he throw it into stark relief.
WaterGirl
@Frank Wilhoit:
Truth.
WaterGirl
@MagdaInBlack: My current flavor is coffee.
schrodingers_cat
We still have to defeat Trump and the Republicans in November. Save your gloating for after the victory.
Joe Biden has dropped out and Nancy Pelosi is still shitting on him. From the Remnick interview.
She lost the House majority how many times? And how many national campaigns has she run. She is good at counting votes and holding her caucus together that doesn’t make her an expert in running national campaigns. Biden has been a part of three such winning campaigns, once at the top of the ticket and he beat an incumbent President. Pelosi wins in a deep blue district.
chemiclord
I think it’s fair to say Pelosi was right that Biden wasn’t turning it around (for reasons both fair and unfair); but she was absolutely wrong in how she tried to proceed (she was in favor of a jungle primary and/or open convention).
MagdaInBlack
@WaterGirl: 🤗❤️
Rabble Arouser
@lamh47: Amen and amen. In my opinion she’s being a particularly poor winner at this stage of things.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat: Ugh, that’s disgusting.
Starfish
@chemiclord: She was, but in this interview, she is talking about how Biden and Harris planned together, and Harris had to run with that opportunity that Biden gave her. It is really interesting.
Old Man Shadow
I really prefer the happy, joyful, wholesome posts about Harris and Walz, because posts that remind me of the Great Fucking Freakout of 24 rip the scab off the wound and make me feel stabby again.
rodwell
@schrodingers_cat: Yes, Joe has been part of three successful national campaigns. Pelosi has had her share of electoral defeats. I remember everyone wanted to replace her after the 2010 election. Remember Harris/Walz inherited the Biden political operation, and they had a good two weeks. Although it is a still long way and there will be setbacks. We all need to work to defeat the TFCG and weirdo.
Baud
@Old Man Shadow:
Agree. Harris and Walz are doing a great job under difficult circumstances.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia:
How is this helping our cause in November? Biden is still the President. I think its time for her to retire, by her own rules she needs to go. She gives these interviews which undermine Hakeem Jeffries, President Biden and Kamala Harris. Its not helpful at all.
Kay
@Subsole:
Agree. But to deny they treated Clinton unfairly for almost 8 years and then have this public discussion on how they plan on acting professionally and ethically in Trump’s case just shows a real echo chamber. Clueless.
They understand everyone can read Twitter, right? That it isn’t just Elon Musk’s gated community for elite journalists?
It reminds me of the Right wingers on the Supreme Court. “I’ll go out and give a wholly partisan campaign speech and then whine that people think I’m a hack”.
divF
@chemiclord:
@Starfish:
Sounds like what often happens in a collaborative effort among talented people. No one was entirely right, no one was completely wrong, but if the team is all pulling for the best possible outcome, you can get that.
Kay
@Old Man Shadow:
Pelosi is a huge figure in the Democratic Party. She is absolutely “news” on a political site like Balloon Juice. The interviews are great for political junkies. She talks at length about how and why the Democratic Party still functions as a political Party and resilient US institution and the Republican Party does not.
More than a US institution really. Republicans have abandoned foreign policy completely, with the exception of arming Israel.
WaterGirl
@Old Man Shadow:
Totally with you on that.
KatKapCC
@Rabble Arouser: LOL your username :D
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Reminds me of Bob Shrum.
wenchacha
@KatKapCC: Fitting song for shuffling those deck chairs
Chris Johnson
@Subsole: Second time today I’ve said: no, strictly Buford T. Justice.
As to the thread, ha! SOMEONE’s got a laser pointer and a gleam in their eye. I’m not sure it works when the FPer is intentionally trolling the commenters ;)
PJ
@different-church-lady: Functionally, in this instance, there isn’t a difference between “convincing to quit” and “forcing out.” Biden didn’t want to stop running – if you read the Anita Dunn interview, they thought the debate “debacle” would blow over, since regular people actually watching the debate didn’t think it was a big deal.
But the press, which has always hated Biden, saw their opportunity, and weak-willed Democrats (many of whom probably also disliked opportunity) couldn’t stop braying about it. If they had just shut up and kept their opinions to themselves, it would’ve blown over in a few days. But that’s not the way “elite Democrats” roll.
I’m sure Pelosi was behind a lot of the calls for Biden to stop running, at least she sure seems to think she played a critical part in getting Biden to quit. Good for her, I guess, for rolling over for the press and wealthy donors. Those dollars will keep flowing.
But if you read the Ezra Klein interview, it’s clear she wanted a “blitz primary”, which remains one of the dumbest political ideas floated in my lifetime. If Biden hadn’t side-stepped her, and other jackasses calling for it, and immediately endorsed Harris (and I’m sure working behind the scenes to get others to fall in line right away), we’d still be in the middle of that shit-show now. Pelosi is also clearly not enthused about Harris, but whatever. She got her way, and she has to live with the consequences.
David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch
NANCY SMASH is LBJ in heels
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Who will play Pelosi in the prestige drama? I could see a scene with Annette Benning as Pelosi, standing at a kitchen island making sandwiches for 10 grandchildren, a phone wedged to her ear as she barks out plans for Impeachment II.
ETA: We haven’t had a woman president yet (dog willing, come November), but arguably the most consequential and ruthless D.C. power player in generations is a woman. She was there all along.
trnc
@lamh47:
Read between the lines. The same media that runs every other bad faith story about democrats would likely have shouted “Coronation by party elites!” to ratfuck democrats. Do you really believe that Pelosi and other democratic leaders have never had to manage their messaging while working behind the scenes to accomplish something, or that Pelosi would have thought it was a good idea to torch $200 million campaign funds that were only accessible by Harris?
100% transparency does not always get good things done. I would really urge people to understand that Pelosi, Schiff and Raskin have access to information that people here don’t. I would also urge them not to conflate the belief that Biden was not able to effectively campaign with “shivving” Biden. I haven’t seen any of these people say one bad word about Biden’s accomplishments as president.
PJ
@Anyway:
She could’ve been gracious and not, in her offhand way, claimed the credit for getting Biden to quit. But she wants to spike the ball. The way she talks about Biden is very condescending. “So he won an election. Bravo.” As if winning a national election for President is some easy thing to do.
Miki
@Kay: And I’m grateful for each of them.
PJ
@Frank Wilhoit:
The gamble is paying off, but not in the way Pelosi wanted.
There’s a long way between now and election day, and the people who were whinging about polls before Biden quit and who are rapturous now may be surprised at how little those polls measured.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@PJ: First, kill all the
lawyerspollsters.PJ
@trnc:
Read the Ezra Klein interview. She says she thought there would be a blitz primary.
PJ
@trnc:
Just up above, at comment #92, there’s a quote from Pelosi: “I’ve never been that impressed by his political operation. They won the White House. Bravo.” If that isn’t shitting on Biden, I don’t know what is.
Miki
@Anyway: Why should she? She knew she would be blamed no matter what so she stood up for herself and the party – that’s her super power.
Nancy Smash doesn’t prefer the Emperor’s New Clothes, in case you haven’t noticed.
Aussie Sheila
@Kay:
I understand people’s unhappiness at the way Biden was ‘treated’.
I still think he is the best US President in my political lifetime.
Pelosi is probably the best US Parliamentarian in my political lifetime.
The decision to pressure him not to run is completely understandable if Party officials had insight into polls that the rest of their Party doesn’t, and I suspect they did.
This situation is fairly typical in a Parliamentary system. Sometimes I have been absolutely thrilled that a non performing leader has been tossed, other times, not so much.
I am very glad Harris was properly given her due as the Vice President to run, I’m thrilled with the choice of Harris as VP candidate, and the odds on the Dems winning in November have now considerably shortened over here.
And I have absolutely no problem with people who will challenge and go after those whose actions they disapprove of, after this is all over.
That after all, is what an active and committed political party base should do.
Oh and in addition, the weaning of US left/liberals off the elite Press and their awful coverage is an added bonus, imo.
Subsole
@Kay:
I think what they bank on – and it is, sadly, not a sucker’s bet – is that most folks don’t know, don’t care, and won’t remember.
That said, I think it goes all the way back to Carter. They really have seemed to despise us ever since him. After about 50 years, it’s institutional at this point. Sabotaging us is just How the Times Does Business.
I don’t know if it simple parochialism, part of the coastal elites’ tendency to assume the Republicans’ Plan for a New (17th) American Century will never touch their deep blue cities in their deep blue states, or ideological compatibility or sheer cravenness or what.
I am honestly tired of trying to figure them out. They are a lot like Trump. They have had a large and obvious hand in fucking up everything I care about for at least 3/4ths of my life. I just want them to go away.
Johnnybuck
@trnc: Yes Goddamn! There are still stories circulating about her “coronation.” Coming out for Harris would have been an avalanche of press about disenfranchisement.
Lotta PUMA energy around here these days.
H
Yeah we should not have threads like this. Please. Do not reopen these wounds.
She wanted to get rid of both Biden and Harris. She wanted an open convention and that is in her own words in an interview with Ezra Klein. There is a lot of evidence that she does not like MVP Harris. Tim Walz just said “Nancy Pelosi said I should tone it down” (referring to support for abortion rights).
But now she’s trying to take credit for the success of the ticket.
zhena gogolia
@PJ:
Exactly.
zhena gogolia
@Johnnybuck: So party unity is shown by shitting on the sitting president in the New Yorker? Before the election?
Gvg
Well, Pelosi has lowered my opinion of her. Blitz primary and mini runoff are such stupid ideas in the current political climate it’s hard not to think she has lost her marbles. Aside from the chance of splitting our coalition, states run elections and republican controlled states wouldn’t agree to have another election, let alone quickly. I suspect it wouldn’t be logistically possible too. Viable democrats declined to run against Biden when they had a chance.
I will wait till Biden chooses to tell more details, to really judge, but I think Pelosi needs to retire. Seriously, I thought her earlier answers showed she was losing memory. Even if she was trying to be evasive, a more alert Pelosi would have answered better. Biden is showing better judgement than she is.
BCHS Class of 1980
@Gvg: I agree with you. I must admit that on the first part she was right in that Biden was never getting a fair shake and that was affecting voter enthusiasm. But she essentially admitted to Ezra Klein that she was rooting for the BS “open process” and was caught by surprise by what actually transpired. In fact my wife convinced me that the ~20-minute gap was so Harris and Clyburn (at least) could get on the horn with the people to set up the bullrush they executed on Pelosi. I also believe that the excessive spiking of the football is precisely because she didn’t get all that she wanted (no Harris on the ticket).
anitamargarita
@lamh47: all of this!
BCHS Class of 1980
@PJ: IMO because she wanted Harris gone too and well, that didn’t happen. :)
BCHS Class of 1980
@Johnnybuck: Sorry but there’s too many dimensions for me on that chessboard for Occam’s Razor to slice through. As others have commented, she usually doesn’t spike the football this obviously and IMO it’s because there were two parts to the plan and only one part got executed.
anitamargarita
@schrodingers_cat: it’s a real bad look for her.
anitamargarita
@schrodingers_cat: Yes, there’s still 3 months of campaigning to get through. It’s going to be rough at times and we don’t need self-inflicted wounds.
Aussie Sheila
@Aussie Sheila:
I mean Walz as VP obvs. Hard to get used to change of personnel in the positions. ☺️☺️☺️☺️
wjca
I suspect that it will turn out that the critical bit was the fusion of the Biden political operation with the Harris political team. The whole being greater than the sum of the parts.
anitamargarita
@BCHS Class of 1980: it seems Pelosi is a bit peeve at not getting her way. These interviews are not putting her in the best light.
wjca
It occurs to me that Harris’ base in San Francisco is just up the road from Pelosi’s district on the Peninsula. I wonder if there is some history there somewhere.
PJ
@Gvg: Biden kept his eye on the prize in making sure Harris got the nomination, and Harris has kept it up in the VP process and in campaigning (including taking over Biden’s operations.) There’s been no leaks, no backbiting, just focusing on the election.
MomSense
@rodwell:
It was always going to be Harris. She was the only one with the access to the campaign money and had the legitimacy to be the nominee. Of course Pelosi was going to say mini primaries because otherwise it would have come across as a coronation. A public statement doesn’t mean that’s what they wanted. Idiots still were calling it a coup on Fox and other right wing media outlets. That’s why Pelosi said mini primaries.
And we had an open primary. Manchin was the only other person who expressed any interest and he was quickly shut down because they all knew it had to be Harris. Pelosi did not say brokered or contested convention. Open convention is in accordance with the rules. As soon as the delegates were released by Biden we went to an open convention. Then it was quickly decided because they planned it this way.
No need to look for conspiracies and it didn’t matter what pundits said. They know nothing.
Kay
Cheez Whiz
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: you have to remember that we don’t choose leaders based on who is the “right person”. It’s a mish-mosh of talent contest, popularity contest, monkey brain chest beating, and more, none of it about expertise or policy. Once Biden was shown publicly weak, confused, and at a loss in the face of Trump it was almost impossible to recover. The widely shared unease in the Party leadership was the final nail in the coffin. Joe was big enough to bow to,the inevitable, and smart enough to turn it into a weapon to hand to his hand-picked sucuessor, Harris.
trnc
This would presumably be the same Biden she called one of the most consequential presidents in history, and whose prisoner exchange negotiations she called “masterful?”
Biden was the candidate. She’s denigrating staffers on the campaign, not him. There were plenty of BJ, LGM and TPM commenters slagging his campaign staff after the debate, so she was by no means alone.
Quinerly
@Kay:
Gotta love her. She rocks.
Quinerly
@MomSense:
💚💚💚
Edmund dantes
@Frank Wilhoit: she took a gamble and got lucky she didn’t get her wish for a mini primary.
The only way the Biden drop out works is the immediate coalescing around Harris. This was not Pelosi’s plan.
Edmund Dantes
@lamh47: Yes. This is the thing everyone wants to duck. The only way to not fracture the party was Joe steps aside for Harris alone. We got lucky in avoiding that, but pelosi was advocating for the chaos factory with the mini primary.
Edmund Dantes
@schrodingers_cat: god I so rarely agree with you on here in the past, but here we are
Pelosi is a person acting like their plan all along was to make a triple banked shot off three defenders and into the back of the net was their plan all along. It wasn’t she wanted by her own admission the mini primary which was going to be a disaster of epic proportions. The only people truly rooting for that were the media that were going to love talking about that for weeks instead of covering the boring Trump stuff that’s become old hat.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Edmund Dantes:
What about the argument that that’s not what Pelosi and others actually wanted and that was only for public consumption to avoid the appearance of a “coronation” while they maneuvered behind the scenes, like what Momsense says in a comment above:
Edmund Dantes
@trnc: oh god… we are going to play the 11th dimensional chess lines again? No. Sometimes smart people. Good people do bad things for bad reasons and they work out.
Pelosi did that here. Anyone talking about a mini primary as smart is ignoring the fracturing of the party that would have occurred if you side stepped the black woman second in command. Not to mention the bruising nature of a mini primary if Harris had still had emerged or the fact that it would have allowed Trump and Vance weeks to hide in the shadows and avoid gaffs while most media attention was on the Dems eating their own.
Pelois was wrong and wanted the wrong thing. She got lucky. Still doesn’t change how great of a speaker she was, but this idea of a mini primary ever being viable for her to talk up was beyond stupid on so many levels politically.
Lynn Dee
OT, but I like this pic of Hiroo Onoda:
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/10/06/arts/onoda1/onoda1-videoSixteenByNineJumbo1600.jpg
Onoda is the Japanese soldier who “was deployed to Lubang in the Philippines in 1944 [and] was instructed to hold the remote island until the Japanese Army returned. Onoda took the orders very seriously and fought a guerrilla war on the island for more than 10,000 days until he finally surrendered in 1974.” Fascinating story. A movie about him came out in 2022, but I would guess there were others
https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220413-onoda-the-man-who-hid-in-the-jungle-for-30-years