Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

FFS people, this was a good thing. take the win.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

Another missed opportunity for Jamie Dimon to just shut the fuck up.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

It looks like winning debates is a black job!

No Justins, No Peace

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Somebody needs to explain to DeSantis that nobody needs to do anything to make him look bad.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

Trump’s legal defense is going to be a dumpster fire inside a clown car on a derailing train.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Republican also-rans: four mules fighting over a turnip.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

“When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they’re gonna use it.”

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

The words do not have to be perfect.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Saturday Morning Open Thread: Arizona, Battle Tested

Saturday Morning Open Thread: Arizona, Battle Tested

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346Comments

  1. 1.

    MagdaInBlack

    I read that Magdi Jacobs tweet 3 times to let it sink in, and it made me tear up a bit

    Eta: I think quite often about how many brilliant minds have been stomped down and wasted because of: racism, sexism, greed.

    Good Morning tho, Its sunny and lovely cool in Chicago land 🌻

  3. 3.

    Baud

    Speaker of the Navajo Nation Council Crystalyne Curley is in attendance at Friday’s Harris/ Walz rally in Arizona.

    Kam dedicated a portion of her speech to tribal issues too.

  5. 5.

    MomSense

    Show me what democracy looks like!
    I always knew she was this good.  We just needed to have courage and take the bold action.

  9. 9.

    Ken

    Harris-Walz campaign has hydrations stations throughout the line, doling out waters and gatorades to supporters.

    I’m having trouble imagining the Trump campaign doing this. Maybe if they were selling the water.

  10. 10.

    zhena gogolia

    It’s all great, but I’m still wondering where all this enthusiasm was for a deeply consequential president whose opponent was also Donald Trump

  11. 11.

    Anne Laurie

    @Baud: They’ll probably at some point have Beyonce perform it live.

    Maybe at the inauguration?

    Or one of the inaugural balls!

    TFG might physically combust, should he be around when that happens…

  14. 14.

    Baud

    @zhena gogolia:

    Enthusiasm unfortunately rarely turns on issues or accomplishments.  Normies are influenced by vibes and atmosphere and trends, and we lost that battle with Biden.

  15. 15.

    New Deal democrat

    Dan Guild on the latest Siena poll:

    “ Their next national poll will be Harris by AT LEAST 5.
    WI RV Harris 50 Trump 46 LV same
    PA RV Harris 49 Trump 36 LV Harris 50 Trump 46
    MI RV Harris 45 Trump 48, LV Harris 50 Trump 46”

    https://nitter.poast.org/dcg1114/status/1822227014478086558#m

    (emphasis mine)

    I am glad for this, and just hope we don’t get overconfident, like a lot of people did in 2016.

  20. 20.

    MagdaInBlack

    @Baud: I’m one who does not want to see either Beyonce or Swift show up at the DNC.  That would turn the attention to them.

    I’m good with inauguration tho.

  21. 21.

    TS

    @Ken:

    Maybe if they were selling the water.

    Doubt it – which state was it (Georgia) that banned giving out water to people standing in line to vote? That sounds more like trump & Co

  23. 23.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @zhena gogolia:

    I’m still wondering where all this enthusiasm was for a deeply consequential president whose opponent was also Donald Trump

    The press told us he wasn’t going to win.  They told us relentlessly, for years.  They emphasized every piece of evidence in favor of that and hid any signs of hope.  They held Trump over our heads constantly, grinding in the misery we felt during his presidency, and told us that Biden meant a return to that misery.

    Yes, when we escaped that abuse we felt a giant surge of hope.  Thank goodness for that, because while I feel Biden was played dirty, more than anything else we do desperately need to win.

  26. 26.

    New Deal democrat

    @Baud: Yes, that is a typo (from Dan Guild).
    Armando formerly of DK also cited the numbers, and he has PA at 49/46.

  27. 27.

    MomSense

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Young people are not reading, watching or listening to the press.  I get that it is preferable to think the press created this situation but it’s not accurate.  Hell most people aren’t following the news.  Dance videos on tiktok have better ratings (views) by millions.

  29. 29.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Iraq is trying to give our christian nationalists ideas:

    A draft law in Iraq that would allow the marriage of girls as young as nine has provoked protests across the country, with women’s rights activists saying it would “legalise child rape”.

    The Shia religious groups that dominate the political system in Iraq have been pushing to erode women’s rights in the country for more than a decade.

    Unlike neighbouring Saudi Arabia, Iraq does not have a system of male guardianship requiring women to have the permission of a husband, father or male guardian to make crucial life choices such as marriage.

     .

  32. 32.

    p.a.

    @New Deal democrat: We remember.  I guess the demographic at B-J tends old, but if we have contact w young voters, talk!  Also too re:2016, Harris/Walz remember, and won’t ease up.  (Not saying Hillary did, but I think the CW (which may be correct in this case) is that her campaign did make some poor choices abt where to spend resources, and that was a killer that allowed the Comey letter & nat’l media to make a diff down the stretch.)

    Also too, given how the system is skewed right, don’t trust good-news polls.  Just work work work.  Or at least donate.  IIRC, when it comes to state polls, again CW: aren’t there state/regional polling outfits w better accuracy than the nat’l pollsters?

    At least this time Dems control the fed gvt.

  34. 34.

    GB in the HC

    This is all so exciting. I have to pinch myself every day to confirm it’s real.

    I really look forward to the campaign rescheduling Raleigh.

  35. 35.

    J.

    @MomSense: My daughter and I were a bit disappointed that Harris didn’t select Beyonce or Taylor Swift as her VP, but we understood. 😎 Would be amazing to have them make a joint appearance on her behalf.

  36. 36.

    NotMax

    But am it art?

    This fall, a 16-foot-tall pigeon — its chest puffed out proudly, head high, not down pecking at some errant pizza crust, its pitiless red-eye gaze looking out over the traffic — will alight on the spur of the High Line that bridges Tenth Avenue at 30th Street. The pigeon’s name, or at least the title of the work, is Dinosaur. “I hope it doesn’t cause any accidents,” says Iván Argote, the artist who created it. “But when you’re driving, it really attracts your eye. You look up and are just like, What?” Source

    How many days before someone paints a giant grayish-white splotch on the pavement?

  37. 37.

    Leto

    Harris-Walz campaign has hydrations stations throughout the line, doling out waters and gatorades to supporters.

    What, they’re not arresting people for passing out water and providing some shade? Georgia would like to have a word…

  40. 40.

    J.

    Seeing the crowds at these rallies, and reading about the joy and how people are fired up, gives me tears of joy. I hope Harris and Walz pulverize Trump and Vance on election day.

    (I still don’t know/understand how any sane or educated person who isn’t a billionaire could vote for Trump-Vance at this point.)

  43. 43.

    NotMax

    Not to be a noodge, repeating this intermittently.

    Putting out feelers about a NYC meet-up.

    Will be visiting the area 8/22 – 9/8. Past experience is that people prefer the weekends. Looking at the calendar, Labor Day weekend seems a good choice.

    Friday (evening) 8/30 or any time Saturday 8/31 or Sunday 9/1 or Monday 9/2. Please do chime in with preferences.

    So far as venue, open to any and all suggestions. Initially thinking of either Pershing Square cafe (steps away from Grand Central Terminal at Park and 42nd) or a more funky spot, Washington Square Diner (easy access by subway, massive menu but no cocktails, beer or wine only).

  46. 46.

    Spanky

    In other news, file under “Ha ha!”

    SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) – Tesla has stopped taking orders for the least expensive version of its Cybertruck, which is priced at $61,000, while making the $100,000 version available for immediate order and delivery as soon as this month, its website showed.

    Demand and supply for the Cybertruck are closely monitored by Tesla investors and fans, because Chief Executive Elon Musk has poured resources into the truck’s development and plans to make 200,000 per year.

    As recently as October, Musk said Tesla had 1 million reservations for the truck. Some customers have indicated they are waiting for less expensive versions, because prices are higher and driving ranges lower than originally forecast.

    “It shows that demand is a lot less than a million trucks,” Guidehouse Insights analyst Sam Abuelsamid told Reuters.

    Cybertruck sold nearly 4,800 units in July – its best month yet and making it by far the best-selling vehicle in the U.S. priced over $100,000, according to Cox Automotive. “They have sold more than 16,000 so far, but sustained high volume at that price point will be a challenge,” a Cox spokesperson said in an email.

    Deliveries of the Cybertruck – which has an unconventional trapezoidal exterior design inspired by the “Blade Runner” movie and a stainless-steel body – began in November 2023 after years of delay and a difficult production ramp-up. Musk in 2019 had estimated the truck would cost $40,000 and be able to travel 500 miles or more on a single charge.

    Tesla’s website no longer offers the option to reserve a $61,000 version of the Cybertruck, which previously had been offered with a 250-mile range and a targeted 2025 delivery. The $99,990 dual-motor variant Foundation limited series with a 318-mile range is estimated to be delivered as early as this month while the $119,990 tri-motor Foundation Cyberbeast with a range of 301 miles is available from October.

    “They’re sitting on a lot of inventory of two-motor and three-motor trucks right now,” Abuelsamid said.

    (Reporting by Abhirup Roy and Hyunjoo Jin in San Francisco; Editing by Leslie Adler)

  47. 47.

    Ken

    @J.: I still don’t know/understand how any sane or educated person who isn’t a billionaire could vote for Trump-Vance at this point.

    Economic anxiety. — NYT

    (At Charlottesville, gangs of skinheads march waving Nazi flags and chanting “whites only”)

    Still economic anxiety. — NYT

  48. 48.

    New Deal democrat

    @p.a.:

    when it comes to state polls, again CW: aren’t there state/regional polling outfits w better accuracy than the nat’l pollsters?

    Yes, that is (part of) Dan’s basic method. He takes the high quality State polls and forecasts what that means nationally.

  49. 49.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud: I’m trying and mostly succeeding. But I didn’t see a lot of courage in late June and early July, except on the part of one person. I just pray that things keep going well for Harris, because this party won’t have her back if things go sour.

  55. 55.

    mrmoshpotato

    @MagdaInBlack:

    I’m one who does not want to see either Beyonce or Swift show up at the DNC. That would turn the attention to them. 

    It would also make that part of the city more chaotic than it’s gonna be anyway.

    My sympathy to those who live around McCormick Place or United Center.

  58. 58.

    3Sice

    Those kiters should be trolled with a “How much Donald Trump owes this venue/vendor” social media campaign.

  59. 59.

    AM in NC

    @OzarkHillbilly: Just amazing we ostracized South Africa until apartheid died, but when women are literal property we shrug.  Just how those countries are, amirite?

  60. 60.

    Quinerly

    @Baud:

    And there rarely is the kind of enthusiasm for a president running for a second term as there is for him when he is new on the scene. Case in point….Obama.

  61. 61.

    Leto

    @Spanky: Fiery Cybertruck Death Spurs Federal Probe

    Federal authorities are investigating after a Cybertruck crashed and burst into flames earlier this week, leaving the driver of the vehicle dead. While there have been a number of crashes involving Tesla’s unconventional vehicle, this is said to be the first one that involves a fatality. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said that it will be looking into the deadly incident, which took place in the greater Houston area early Monday morning.

    Yesterday, troopers with the Texas Department of Public Safety responded to an area near the Grand Parkway for reports of a crash, local news reports. From the initial investigation, officials say that the truck appears to have veered off the road sometime around 1:45 a.m. and run into a culvert, where it burst into flames. The driver was pronounced dead at the scene. It has also been reported that the driver could not initially be identified due to the burns and that the VIN of the vehicle had also been obscured due to the fire, which further thwarted identification.

    As of Monday, it was still unclear what actually caused the driver to lose control of the vehicle and drive off the road. Gizmodo reached out to local authorities for more information and will update this story if they respond.

    The NHTSA is now investigating the crash, according to a report from Reuters.

    The Cybertruck, which looks a little bit like a Hummer crossed with a trash can, was developed by Tesla and has crept onto America’s roads over the past six months. It was initially announced back in 2019 and has been frequently talked about by Tesla’s CEO Elon Musk ever since the company only officially began delivering the cars to customers last November. While it’s still pretty rare to see them, I have personally spotted at least half a dozen of them idling on various streets throughout California.

    I’m honestly surprised they made it through the crash test portion of the initial certification.

  62. 62.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Gin & Tonic: ​
     

    If Harris wins, he was a goddamn genius.

    Biden’s superpower is that every time since he began campaigning in 2020, everybody underestimates him, repeatedly.

  67. 67.

    MomSense

    @J.:

    Not sure the fabric of the universe is strong enough for their joint appearance!
    What a time to be alive.

  70. 70.

    Starfish

    @Ken: This is extremely important in Arizona. People would set up hydration stations in the desert for people crossing the border so they don’ t die, and other people destroy them.

  71. 71.

    Matt McIrvin

    Their moments of joy on the other side are things like the “Entourage” photo of Vance’s people creeping around Kamala Harris’s plane and pretending it’s theirs. Bully moves presented as jolly pranks.

  73. 73.

    Quinerly

    @Leto: all those raccoons that keep trying to break in them thinking they are dumpsters probably sabotaged it.

    Love the videos of the trash pandas scratching and clawing on those ridiculous trucks.

  74. 74.

    p.a.

    re: not taking any chances: I’m getting at least 5 (really 10 but who’s counting😉) emails/day from the Harris campaign or Dem orgs that directly support her.  Not counting ActBlue, which I have donated to but are thankfully not that aggressive with their emails.

    “Proud to be a union man.  Pay my dues when I can…”🙃- Neil Young

  75. 75.

    SteveinPHX

    I covered lunch time @ work and some extra time on our Service Desk so three of my coworkers could get over to that rally yesterday and then I got home in time to catch the Harris/Walz stump speeches on the TV. Felt like I did my good deed for the day!

  76. 76.

    Kay

    Former President Trump has been in a foul mood the past few weeks and has repeatedly called Vice President a “bitch” in private, the N.Y. Times’ Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan report.

    Why it matters: Axios has written extensively about this as the girls vs. boys election, with Democrats crushing the women’s vote. Trump advisers privately concede his misogynistic language is deeply problematic, and something they worry he will unload in a public debate to his detriment.

  77. 77.

    Gin & Tonic

    @J.: Given what happened in Austria, Swift should stay far away from politics. She has very competent security people and I’d bet that’s at the core of their advice.

  78. 78.

    3Sice

    ex-prez check bouncer can’t carry a rat-fucking through line any more. It has to be narrow in construction and hammered repetitively. His brain fade mashups of names, dates, and events doesn’t work.

  80. 80.

    Anyway

    @Frankensteinbeck: The press told us he wasn’t going to win.  They told us relentlessly, for years.

    I listen to college radio in the morning and they’ll have the AP news minute or something like that at the top of the hour. For a year now I’ve been muting it when it came on bcos the Biden clips they had on were so difficult to listen to – call me ageist etc but it was painful listening to him

    I am a big fan, supporter of Pres Joe and if I had a hard time listening to him imagine the normies – he’d never get through to them.

    I hear the pro-KH ads during the Olympics and the snippets from her speech are inspiring and energetic and positive — that’s what’s bringing the crowds.

    Biden will get a huge well-deserved standing O at the convention but this was the right call. All of the repeated “but not the way it was done” whines remind me of Trump pining for Biden as his opponent.

  81. 81.

    p.a.

    Trump advisers privately concede his misogynistic language is deeply problematic

     

    NYT: Trump shifts election momentum by again challenging hidebound norms.

  84. 84.

    AM in NC

    @OzarkHillbilly: Absolutely. Why don’t we use our might to stop it abroad? We are soaking in it here at home. The MAGA era has been a real eye-opener. As has the internet era as a whole.   Just so sick and tired of being viewed as prey.

  85. 85.

    MagdaInBlack

    @mrmoshpotato: I had forgotten that is this weekend. When I lived in Naperville, 2 blocks from Metra, I took the train down for that.

    I was younger then, I didn’t mind people so much 😉

  86. 86.

    Anyway

    @Baud: Also, too, Kam hasn’t won shit yet.  Still a long way to go.

    Yes, but she’s making a fight of it. Getting the message out and pointing out how awful the other guys are. After that it’s up to your favorite people — voters.

  87. 87.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @zhena gogolia: It’s all great, but I’m still wondering where all this enthusiasm was for a deeply consequential president whose opponent was also Donald Trump

    I’m sorry, I must’ve hoarded too much of it for myself.

  88. 88.

    Kay

    @p.a.:

    Nah. Things have been looking good for Democrats in congressional races since March. They look even better now. All Republicans had was Trump ahead in the Presidential + any coat tails he might have had. All of that is slipping away. Misogynist language is deeply problematic because if Trump keeps slipping they’ll turn their attention to downticket and try to salvage.

  91. 91.

    Starfish

    @zhena gogolia: Things are going well for Harris. Her campaign feels collaborative. There are numerous Etsy sellers selling “Mind your own damn business” shirts.

    Elizabeth Spiers took the Tampon Tim nonsense from the Trump campaign and turned it into “Tampon Tim, stop the red wave.” And we are reclaiming masculinity by making a period joke in support of a male Vice Presidential candidate. What planet is this even? I have no clue, but it is hilarious.

    With the stuff this week, I think we are going to get a week of enthusiasm for the VP candidate, and the other contenders for his position are being supportive of the candidates! Love to see it.

    They have one more week to keep people energized as Trump seethes about their crowd size, and then it is off to the DNC.

    We don’t know what will happen between late August and November, but I think people will keep the energy up because it is exciting.

  93. 93.

    NotMax

    @TBone

    If it weren’t the wee read: (still martini-ing) hours I might try knocking off lyrics to “You’re a Weird One, Mr.Vance” to the tune of the Grinch song.
    :)

  94. 94.

    Another Scott

    @zhena gogolia: Politics is quite often unfair.  Biden has had more than his share of crap dumped on his life and career.  Lots more.  But he has also had more than his share of joy and success and rewards.

    He saved millions of people in the USA.  He saved hundreds of millions and potentially billions of people around the world.  He saved NATO and has so far prevented a conflagration in the Middle East.  He continues to work to make government and society fairer for everyone. He is the most consequential president since FDR, and maybe since Lincoln, and did it with the barest majority and with an insane opposition.

    And even when the press and the opposition was again (like with the Build Back Better bill) screaming that he was a doomed loser, he again showed that he knows how to do this politics stuff to get the job done and to win the big prize for all of us.

    Not bad for a slow old guy with a stutter, acid reflux, allergies, and arthritis.

    Be thankful for his work for us, and for his picking Kamala to Finish The Job.

    Hang in there.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  95. 95.

    Ken

    @Kay:  if Trump keeps slipping they’ll turn their attention to downticket and try to salvage.

    Good luck getting RNC funding for downticket races, or for anything other than Trump’s legal bills.

  97. 97.

    Kay

    NYTimes has a big Haberman article – Republicans in disarray, and this jumped out at me:

    Mr. Fabrizio has predicted to campaign colleagues that Ms. Harris will have another two to three good weeks, through the Democratic National Convention, and then her poll numbers will turn in the other direction.
    Others are more concerned about what they are seeing in private polling. Two private polls conducted in Ohio recently by Republican pollsters — which Mr. Trump carried in 2020 with 53 percent of the vote — showed him receiving less than 50 percent of the vote against Ms. Harris in the state, according to a person with direct knowledge of the data.

    Ha! She’s not going to carry Ohio but that must drive them bonkers.

  99. 99.

    Quinerly

    @topclimber: you might be right. With Reagan, Mondale was always the sacrificial lamb, imo.

    We are at this exciting point with Kamala even though all odds were against us when this race started. The stars aligned when Biden voluntarily stepped down when he did and Kamala stepped up. Short campaign season works in her favor. Hindsight is always 20/20…. I am now thankful for the early debate and Biden’s poor performance. We wouldn’t be where we are if Biden had won the debate. His campaign and message was just not resonating. Sad, but true.

    I love reading about Native American women going to their first rallies and planning to vote for the first time. Kids turning 18 and excited about voting for “Coach.” Kamala and Tim are relatable. I don’t even think we would be where we are if she had picked Shapiro. And no way, no how were we going to see this with a Biden vs Trump rematch. It was just going to be a long slog with many of us holding our breath hoping Biden would not stumble, literally or figuratively, and then the press would chew on that stumble for 15 news cycles.

    Biden is probably the greatest president of my lifetime. But the reality is he wasn’t going to win re election. I stand by these words.

    I can’t wait to read the behind the scenes books and Biden’s memoir in a year or so.

  102. 102.

    Kay

    @Ken:

    I don’t think it matters. Republicans are always going to have a ton of money. If it doesn’t come thru the RNC it will come thru some other finance mechanism. They have 90% of the big donors. Trump has something like 11 billionaires funding the GOP. Unlimited funding. They get a great return on their investment with the GOP. It’s a no brainer. They’ll simply shift to Senate and House races.

  103. 103.

    Ken

    @Starfish: we are reclaiming masculinity by making a period joke in support of a male Vice Presidential candidate.

    I get a sense of closure, considering that Trump’s offensive “blood coming out of her whatever” spat with Megyn Kelly was one of the reasons he broke away from the rest of the 2016 Republican candidates.

  105. 105.

    Scout211

    ProPublica has just published 23 secret training videos for Project 2025.

    Project 2025, the controversial playbook and policy agenda for a right-wing presidential administration, has lost its director and faced scathing criticism from both Democratic groups and former President Donald Trump. But Project 2025’s plan to train an army of political appointees who could battle against the so-called deep state government bureaucracy on behalf of a future Trump administration remains on track.

    One centerpiece of that program is dozens of never-before-published videos created for Project 2025’s Presidential Administration Academy. The vast majority of these videos — 23 in all, totaling more than 14 hours of content — were provided to ProPublica and Documented by a person who had access to them.

    The Project 2025 videos coach future appointees on everything from the nuts and bolts of governing to how to outwit bureaucrats. There are strategies for avoiding embarrassing Freedom of Information Act disclosures and ensuring that conservative policies aren’t struck down by “left-wing judges.” Some of the content is routine advice that any incoming political appointee might be told. Other segments of the training offer guidance on radically changing how the federal government works and what it does.

    In one video, Bethany Kozma, a conservative activist and former deputy chief of staff at the U.S. Agency for International Development in the Trump administration, downplays the seriousness of climate change and says the movement to combat it is really part of a ploy to “control people.”
    “If the American people elect a conservative president, his administration will have to eradicate climate change references from absolutely everywhere,” Kozma says.

    In the same video, Kozma calls the idea of gender fluidity “evil.” Another speaker, Katie Sullivan, who was an acting assistant attorney general at the Department of Justice under Trump, takes aim at executive actions by the administration of President Joe Biden that created gender adviser positions throughout the federal government. The goal, Biden wrote in one order, was to “advance equal rights and opportunities, regardless of gender or gender identity.”

    Sullivan says, “That position has to be eradicated, as well as all the task forces, the removal of all the equity plans from all the websites, and a complete rework of the language in internal and external policy documents and grant applications.”

    More at the link.

  106. 106.

    Shakti

    @Spanky: Why the hell would anyone want a  $61 K / $100k truck that has major issues? I don’t understand this. To me, waiting around for repair parts for recalls, not being able to so much as wash the car without it rusting, parts breaking and (nearly)causing accidents and fatalities because of design and construction flaws,  and having trouble getting fuel or charging it, is not luxury.  Imagine not being able to drive that thing and falling back on …. a Toyota or a Hyundai or a Subaru or a Ford.

    This doesn’t make it “fun to drive.”   To me, that’s badly engineered.  A lemon.

    Also, if you get one of those, you might as well wear a sign that says “I have too much money, tax me more, I am an idiot!” in the way a standard BMW or a Lexus doesn’t.

    It obviates the bragging rights of “ooh look at my shiny rich person transportation” if the truck is constantly being repaired or sitting in a garage or driveway unable to move.

  109. 109.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    Make them spend money to defend those states so they have less for swing states.
    We left Ohio when I was a toddler, but I was born there and would love to see it blue again. 

  116. 116.

    MomSense

    @Quinerly:
    He’s going to be so mad at the debate.  He’ll start sputtering and maybe some of those words will come out.
    Will he have to pay fines if he says those words on live tv?

  118. 118.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    58. That isn’t going to translate in Ohio. If we had wanted it to translate (maybe) we would have held off and done it in 24 instead of 23. Which some people said, including me, but that’s very cynical and transactional and the people who said we should save womens lives immediately were right :)

    I do think people like a winner though, especially Right leaning people, so Trump will have some drop off just because he’ll start to be perceived as losing.

    But boy, has he done a number on people. We (lawyers) sit in the jury room and talk while we’re waiting for our case to be called and I was sitting with a Toledo lawyer I have not seen for probably ten years. He’s not even from Ohio- he’s from New Hampshire. He’s a Republican. We were talking about the election and it hit me “he thinks Biden stole it” so I asked “do you really think it was stolen?” and he said “oh absolutely. All those court cases he lost were procedural – they never reached the merits”

    He used to a be a smart normal person. Now he’s a cult member. It’s just shocking to meet one in the wild.

  120. 120.

    Spanky

    @Kay:

    Mr. Fabrizio has predicted to campaign colleagues that Ms. Harris will have another two to three good weeks, through the Democratic National Convention, and then her poll numbers will turn in the other direction.

    Based purely on wishful thinking, apparently.

  121. 121.

    MomSense

    @Another Scott:

    My grandfather went to the same high school as Clark Gable and everyone thought my grandfather was the handsome one.  This is according to my grandmother of course!

  122. 122.

    mrmoshpotato

    @PST:

    So let’s ruin it with noisy jet aircraft. 

    What?!  I couldn’t hear you over the roar of the jet engines!

  124. 124.

    Betty Cracker

    @Quinerly: The behind-the-scenes accounts and Biden’s take on events will be fascinating. Pelosi was coy about her role in the ticket change at first, but her responses to interview questions during her ongoing book tour make it clear that she, along with Jeffries and Schumer, were determined to convince Biden to step aside and were prepared to go public with their misgivings if he didn’t. It’s personal for Pelosi since Trump inspired the loon who almost killed her husband. There’s no way he’s getting back to the White House on her watch, not if she can prevent it.

  125. 125.

    Scout211

    @MomSense: There is a rumor that Beyonce and Taylor Swift are planning a joint appearance.

    I thought that rumor was shut down weeks ago.

  126. 126.

    p.a.

    The coming convention will be another positive bump.  I don’t know what, if anything, the R’s oppo research has turned up or might yet turn up, but given the current trend I’d be surprised if they are sitting on anything, if they have anything.  All I’ve heard is Vance’s ineffective Walz military career smears, and the perpetual, since 1919 really (both parties for lots of the century) “lefty lefty socialist lefty” bullshit, which kinda-sorta ties in with the transgender smears.  Maybe the voting American public has fucking finally had enough of this bullshit.  Except, you know, the usual suspect 27%.

  127. 127.

    Kay

    @Spanky:

    I do think she’ll continue up until after the convention and then settle, but still ahead. We also have to remember that Biden underperformed a lot of his polling, so that’s a possibility with her too.

  135. 135.

    Mousebumples

    Skipping the comments to offer a few pieces of WI voter anecdata from yesterday from my FIL –

    1) He was SURE Walz was older than him. He’s shocked he’s only a few months older than Harris.

    2) He was shocked to learn about historical sexism used by some players to make female candidates seem less by using first vs last names. (my SIL pointed that out to him, and I agreed with her) I said I think Kamala is a beautiful name worth highlighting. But if I saw Kamala, I’m also saying DonOLD in a nearby sentence.

    3) He loved DonOLD, as a term to use. He has lots of Trumpers at his work, but he’s a Blue voter.

    4) Forgot to return his absentee ballot for Tuesday so I told him how he can vote on Tuesday, without necessity needing to do a provisional ballot. He’s going to exchange his blank absentee ballot for a fresh one that’s easier to put into the polling machine. (no folds)

    Wisconsin voters – vote NO on free amendments, if you haven’t already

    Eta – family stuff today, but I’ll hopefully be in the threads/comments more tonight.

  136. 136.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay:

    All those court cases he lost were procedural – they never reached the merits”

    That’s because those cases had no merit to begin with. trump has rotted their brains.

  139. 139.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Kay:

    He used to a be a smart normal person. Now he’s a cult member. It’s just shocking to meet one in the wild.

    I chalk that up to the effectiveness of classic propaganda techniques combined with modern communications media.

    Really sad to see…and really scary.

  140. 140.

    TBone

    Return of the Bear Meme:

    Bear:  “Who is he?”

    Women: “It’s not important.”

    Bear: “I’m not mad, I just want to know you’ll be safe with this man. Who is he?”

    Women:  “Tim Walz.”

    Bear: “TIMMY? OMG Tell him I say hey!”

  144. 144.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    I listened to another interview with her about the book. She talked about how you can’t negotiate with Trump because he’s a liar, which is so true. No one can negotiate with a liar, I don’t care how good you are. Without some kind of baseline trust that the person follows some norms of behavior it just can’t happen. Apparently he tried to dick her over on 9 billion in funding for women and infants (I assume WIC) – lied to her– and that was it for Pelosi. To her that’s not a professional, serious adult. She literaly calls him an imposter.

  148. 148.

    dm

    I love the “Coach!” signs.

    I love the way this campaign has turned into a celebration of America, freedom, and won’t-back-down Democrats.  Beyonce’s anthem is a wonderful musical capstone fr these campaign events.

    It’s like they’ve been reading Josh Marshall about the weak position that being in a defensive crouch has historically put Democrats.

    It’s like they heard pod-bro Jon Lovett say: “Which party do you want to go to?  The oone that’s a grim struggle, or the one that’s having fun?” and decided to be the Fun Party as well as the party that gets things done (vs. the too-tied-up-in-bickering party that’s the alternative).

  149. 149.

    Starfish

    @TBone: The variant I saw…

    “Minnesotan women telling me it would be okay to pick tim Walz over the bear is really all I needed to hear.”

    “You should 100% pick Tim Walz over the bear. Not only will Tim Walz share his snacks with you he will help lead you out of the forest while pointing out how to tell a pine tree and a spruce tree apart.”

  151. 151.

    Layer8Problem

    @NotMax:  Still working out what’s happening with me and mine that particular weekend, but those places sound good, although a slight preference here for someplace I could get a martini.

  152. 152.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @3Sice:

    Friday I saw a Rivian pickup in utility company livery.

    Rivian makes larger delivery vans for Amazon.  As of late last fall, they’d delivered 10K and this year are supposedly opening up sales to others.

    https://www.geekwire.com/2023/inside-amazons-rivian-electric-van-a-greener-quieter-ride-and-a-sliding-door-fit-for-star-trek/

    Prior to a deal with VW a few months back, the main thing keeping Rivian in bidness was it’s commercial sales to Amazon as they were burning thru their venture capital faster than drunken sailors in Bangkok.

    I live 5 minutes from their two main spots in CO: a service/prep center and a “space” (their twee term for showroom).  There are a lot of Rivians here because of that…and the craptons of money that’s here.

  153. 153.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    My husband and i kept laughing during the interview because we get such a kick out of her sort of mastery of her domain (the House). She “loves” appropriations – reads every word and listens to all testimony on budgetary matters and funding so she was sort of sneering at the idea Trump thought he could get the better of her there :)

  154. 154.

    Bex

    @MagdaInBlack: The rumor was that they would do a fundraising concert in LA.  TS has some time on her hands right now because she had to cancel three shows in Austria because of a credible terror threat.

  158. 158.

    Another Scott

    @Kay: “Where you stand depends on where you sit.” He chose to surround himself with cult members, so of course he joined them.

    It’s unfortunate, but he has agency.  He should challenge himself to think for himself while he still can.

    Sorry.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  161. 161.

    E.

    @different-church-lady: It’s not that the world isn’t fair, it’s that I formerly thought the party loyalists were more . . . loyal. We turned tail well before hearing from trustworthy voices on the matter, and showed a lack of confidence in our leader at a time of crisis. I am delighted by the result but we may need better cohesion in the future.

  162. 162.

    Quinerly

    @MomSense:

    Thanks.

    “The Dem Party is going to stab Kamala in the back” comments on many of these threads are becoming tedious and trollish in their own way. The differences in Kamala and Joe are obvious. The differences in their campaigns are stark. We are now reminded the way it should be.

    I’m out of this thread for now. Hope to resist commenting anymore this AM. Mulch to spread. Two day beer festival starts at noon.

    Have a great weekend. If you ever travel New Mexico way, would love to meet up. I have now met about a dozen jackals over the years. Always fun and exciting. Working on connecting with a few in person when I am in Tucson, Phoenix and Cottonwood in December.

  163. 163.

    WereBear

    NPD and aging

    I wondered:

    What happens as a person with NPD ages?

    As someone with NPD ages, their symptoms can evolve, becoming more or less intense.

    According to Briana Sefcik, director of trauma and family wellness at The Last Resort Recovery Center in Austin, TX, some people may experience an intensification of narcissistic traits as they get older due to the loss of status, physical health, or social connections.

    “This can be particularly distressing for someone who thrives on admiration and control,” Sefcik notes.

    Changes in the brain may also be a factor. A 2019 review of studiesTrusted Sourceindicates that certain structural changes in the brain, particularly in areas related to empathy and self-regulation, are associated with NPD.

    “As people age, normal cognitive decline can impact these brain regions further, potentially exacerbating some narcissistic traits or leading to new challenges in managing emotions and behaviors,” says Carlos Escobar, Clinical Director at Real Recovery in Tampa, FL.

    However, some older adults with NPD might show a decrease in certain narcissistic behaviors. This can happen as they become more reflective and aware of their mortality, Sefcik adds.

    That settles my hunch. He will get worse.

  165. 165.

    Kay

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Well, the Right side of the Democratic Party attacked Joe Biden plenty too. In fact, the Left side of the Democratic Party was on the “stay” side in the Biden fight.

    The  “centrists” in the House were afraid they would lose their seats. They were right too- they would have lost their seats. But Bernie Sanders and AOC wouldn’t, so they supported Biden for some other reason.

    I don’t think the facts really work with the “stabbed in the back by the Left” narrative unless one leaves out a bunch.

  167. 167.

    Anyway

    @Kay: I don’t think it matters. Republicans are always going to have a ton of money. If it doesn’t come thru the RNC it will come thru some other finance mechanism. They have 90% of the big donors

    There are 2-3 anti-KH ads in heavy rotation during the Olympics — illegals are swamping our hospitals; a sherrify looking person talking about the border; how many times can we say liberal and San Francisco in 30seconds —-  those are low-hanging fruit. I am waiting for something with more teeth.

    There don’t appear to be any pro-GOP ads and none with Dotard’s face or name. It’s all negative ads at this stage.

  169. 169.

    Kay

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    But let’s be accurate. Not just Pelosi. Pelosi, Schumer, Jeffries and Obama. But I figured Pelosi would end up the punching bag. Not that she cares. As she said “you have to be able to take a punch and throw a punch- this is competitive” She said “lovely and competitive” because she’s inadvertently funny.

  170. 170.

    Ken

    @MomSense: Not sure the fabric of the universe is strong enough for their joint appearance!

    We’ll be testing the strength of that fabric next week, when Trump sits for his interview with Elon Musk.

  171. 171.

    Starfish

    @Quinerly: I feel this too.

    Biden, and a lot of these politicians who were running for VP, are amazing. The way they were able to let their ambitions go because they want to win has been inspirational.

    The commenters who can’t help but continue to nurse a grudge because their favorite did not win are tedious.

  175. 175.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Kay: Pelosi chose to make herself the public face of protecting Congresscritters from restrictions on using their.position for financial advantage.

    You don’t need to convince me that other Democrats also are too tied into moneyed interests. I know.

  177. 177.

    Geminid

    @E.: I think July’s turmoil was a singular event for the Democratic Party and I very much doubt something like it will happen again. Overall, Democrats have become more cohesive since 2019 so I’m not too worried about intra-party conflict. I used to be.

  178. 178.

    Chris Johnson

    Heavy sigh.

    It is possible for Biden to be capable at his job (which he is STILL doing), and be not the best choice for the next leg of the ol’ relay race of justice, AND want to get the victory for himself, AND be willing to let go when he finally sees just how much better things will be if he does let the next generation take the next leg of the relay race.

    All of that stuff can be true at once, and to my mind it is even more noble of Joe to allow the hand-over knowing that technically, he doesn’t have to. He’s the President. There was no way around him. He would have beat Trump, too, because we’re seeing where Trump is at these days and he’s cratering. But Kamala Harris and Tim Walz will be able to completely clobber Trump and that is needed.

    My confidence in Joe is only underscored by his choices and the result of his choices. He’s earned a very special place in the history books. He is what we’re supposed to be, just as much as Tim Walz is.

    I don’t want to hear any weird theories about how despite all appearances we are all slaves of a party that is backstabbing each other and all acting in malice and treachery from beginning to end. It’s the ‘both parties are the same’ narrative, and the way it’s SUPPOSED to be is the way we do it. It’s the Republicans who are a pit of treachery and evil, and they’re going to have to get over that one day or they’ll go the way of the Whigs.

  179. 179.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Anyway:

    There don’t appear to be any pro-GOP ads and none with Dotard’s face or name. It’s all negative ads at this stage.

    It’s pretty much all they got.
    Thank goodness I’ve been able to login via my provider account to NBC’s Olympic site and watch stuff on replay. No commercials, straight coverage with no fluff. Only way to watch the Olympics.

  180. 180.

    Baud

    @Geminid:

    A lot depends on winning in November. We spent more time talking about Berniebros than PUMAs because of the outcome of the election.

  182. 182.

    PST

    @mrmoshpotato:

    My sympathy to those who live around McCormick Place or United Center.

    I live 1.1 mile away as the bicycle rolls. I think it’s going to be no big deal other than some transportation snarls caused by security, but everyone tells me I’m wrong. I can’t imagine who it is they think will be making trouble. There will be Gaza protesters, but peaceful and few in number, especially with colleges not yet in session.

  183. 183.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    Trump’s donors have literally unlimited money. Elon Musk could match any Harris small donor haul in a day. If he wanted to. But some of them won’t want to because they have giant fucking egos and they don’t want to back a loser. So they’ll just focus on Congress, exactly like we would have done had Biden stayed in. They’ll do harm reduction. But I think the House is Dem. Harris isn’t a sure thing and the Senate is still a huge lift but I think Dems have the House, unless she collapses. You can tell in the Pelosi interviews that she thinks so too – she said at one point “we’re good in the House”

    But the GOP is never, ever going to run out of money.

  184. 184.

    WereBear

    I think people are being drawn in by the strength and vigor of our ticket. Fearful people are the prey of the Republican Party now. Project 2025 froze me like a rabbit. So awful it would be dismissed by normies.

    But now, the more people hear the better we look. It’s a “giving permission” kind of thing. A lot of people need the peer pressure.

  186. 186.

    schrodingers_cat

    @zhena gogolia: Yeah they will pull the same shit again no matter who is our nominee or the President. That’s what they do.

    BTW have you noticed when I first suggested that NP was behind the rolling coup against Biden when it ran into week 2 and week 3 (after Schiff’s infamous letter)some BJ commenters took their fainting couches and called me a troll.

    After the recent spate of Pelosi’s interviews they are now openly gloating.

    Pelosi wants to rewrite history but she never wanted Kamala Harris (I think her words were she didn’t want a coronation), she is on record for wanting that stupid mini primary at the open convention. Now she is complaining that Bidens have iced her out and are not taking her calls.

    Now she wants to take credit for Harris-Walz. She needs to retire by her own rules. Isn’t she older than Biden.

  188. 188.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    The election 7 years ago. We won the 2020 election. You talk more about Bernie Bros because of the election 7 years ago.

  189. 189.

    Shakti

    @3Sice: Fleet sales require reliability.

    So, also, do sales to rideshare/delivery drivers, vehicle rental companies etc.

     

    But then you can’t sell those buyers on “oh cool blade runner looking truck” alone.

  190. 190.

    Kay

    @schrodingers_cat:

    So Pelosi is no longer a Democrat and Sherrod Brown is no longer a Democrat. What about Schumer and Jeffries and Obama? Why are they spared the loyalty test?

    Bernie Sanders, who is not actually a Democrat, was on the Biden stay side so that makes him now a Democrat? Or is he still the enemy?

  191. 191.

    WereBear

    I saw my first Cybertruck the other day.

    Must appeal to people who like J D Vance.

    It looked like a cheapo knockoff of a Hot Wheels car they didn’t bother to paint.

  192. 192.

    Hungry Joe

    POSTCARD UPDATE

    Postcards for Jon Tester:

    Yesterday — 3

    Total — 50 … and DONE!

    Today: Return to Postcards to Swing States, currently at 166.

  195. 195.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Chris Johnson: Which all would have been fine if Biden were provided space to make a meaningful choice on his own.  He wasn’t.

    I’m excited for Kamala. Kamala was one of the people I wanted to nominate four years ago. The permanent moneyed Democratic influence class decided four years ago that women were a no-go. Now we’ve moved onto promoting ageism and illiteracy.

    We need, as a polity, to stop letting ourselves be yanked around by media and the moneyed interests or shit will continue to decline no matter which party is in office.

    @Kay: She doesn’t have to be benefitting from a bad practice to preserve that right for others.  These people make the laws, they shouldn’t have an active role in their own investments.

  198. 198.

    Layer8Problem

    @Anyway:

    All of the repeated “but not the way it was done” whines remind me of Trump pining for Biden as his opponent.

    Whines, eh?  Ok.  Glad you’re a big fan, supporter of Pres Joe, that’s really nice.  He made his decision, Harris and Walz are campaigning with all their cylinders firing, and things are going extremely well.

    I don’t think there’s anybody around here that doesn’t support Harris wholeheartedly.  Maybe Bupalos has doubts; that one seems concerned about her presentation, but their takes are always, I dunno, quirky?  Yeah, I’ll say quirky.

  199. 199.

    Geminid

    @Kay: I was reading up on Hakeem Jeffries and saw he was appointed to the Budget Committee as a freshman, which is unusual.

    I also saw that when Jeffries ran in the 2012 primary to succeed retiring Rep. Ed Towns, his campaign flyers featured a picture of him standing between Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. They were smiling of course. Obama would not formally endorse in a primary, but he and Clinton knew they had spotted good talent in the young New York Assemblyman.

  200. 200.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @WereBear:

    There are soooo many wonderful, insulting memes on the Cylon Transport Vehicle.

    Pontiak Aztek with Play Station 1 graphics.

  202. 202.

    Chris Johnson

    @Kay: I’d gently push back on that one. To some extent that too is a narrative, to harm us.

    A guy like Musk has his money tied up in stock value. What he’s actually got liquid is still substantial, but you cannot just take his net worth, it’s not available to him in that way, he can’t turn it into real money.

    Trump’s real financing is still out of Russia, and the problem there is that they’re defending against literal Ukraininan seizure of their territory. Russia didn’t used to have to fund a literal boots-on-the-ground war, and sure didn’t plan to still be fighting it. They have to pay North Korea for ammo now. Trump has to run scams on his own voters to self-fund the facade of wealth he needs to put across, because he simply can’t get that out of Russia. He can’t pay for RNC offices or even keep state Republican campaigns solvent, so he has to turn to Charlie Kirk (who I’m pretty sure is also a Russian op) to take over what was formerly the Republican infrastructure that won him the Presidency in 2016. The fact that he has to turn to Charlie Kirk is very ominous (for him).

    The sense I have of where Trump stands is that he is having to turn to everyone who’s ever been in the extended network of Russian influence, who have their own grifts and scams going, in order to do anything at all. He, not getting any more money, has to turn to other traitorous fucks (also not getting any money but they have better grifts and their own solvency) so they can pretend Trump is not completely hollow with no resources and no cavalry on the horizon to rescue him.

    Russia’s not paying his way this time.

    Elon can’t liquidate his wealth and is not one bit more self-sacrificing than Trump is: he is sitting on his wealth and trying to help Trump by manipulating Twitter (stupidly) and by giving thoughts, prayers, and the good will of the Elon Musk brand.

    They all sooooo deserve each other, and right now none of them are in great financial positions. If Russia hadn’t invaded Ukraine and lost things would be very different, but if wishes were horses…

    Oh, and you know Russia has to spend money and attention in Venezuela now. That is money and effort that can’t be spent here…

  203. 203.

    JML

    I’m not interested in who did what to “get Joe Biden out of the race”. Maybe 10 years from now as a historical point…maybe. But right now? Not at all, because all that will do is inflame resentments and divisions between democrats…and at least half of what will come out will be 100% Bee Ess. Set it aside, please. I don’t give a flying fuck what Nancy Pelosi did or didn’t do right now, and frankly Nancy needs to go on vacation if she can’t keep quiet about it. The decision was made, it’s a done deal and we have a new ticket and one we can be very proud of.

    A lot of good work was done transitioning to the Harris/Walz ticket that has managed to unite and inspire Democrats, and anything that will create division and resentment now, with only 3 months to go needs to be set aside or let go completely. Stay on target. We won’t go back.

  207. 207.

    Kay

    In the NYTimes piece Trump met with his billionaire donors because they’re concerned. They raised the “weird” issue because they think it’s effective. Trump told them “that’s not about ME, it’s about JD Vance”

    Which is so perfectly Trump I can’t stand it.

  209. 209.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Kay: “We can’t do thing because Republicans don’t act in good faith” is certainly a take.

    Perhaps we should eliminate our information retention laws (Butter Emails) or investments research and development (Al Gore invented the internet). Maybe we should close down our consulates abroad (Benghazi).

    There is nothing humans can conceive that different humans can’t abuse. You still do your best and deal with the ramifications.

  210. 210.

    Chris Johnson

    @Layer8Problem: Weird is on the table :) currently, knowing that it’s possible for people to just be influenced by social contacts with super-bad takes, when I see truly weird takes what I’d like to do (rather than bay like Donald Sutherland in ‘Invasion Of The Body Snatchers’) is find the embedded take and try to flag it, surface it.

    For instance, if somebody’s weird take is ‘guys I’m really worried Tim Walz is such a statesman that he will overshadow the clearly dumb and bad Harris’, I’ll try to surface the embedded point, and say ‘wait hold the fuck up, since when is Harris either dumb or bad at public speaking? care to explain why you’re trying to insert THAT into the narrative when it’s a dogshit take?’

    I guess that’s post-Putin politics for you. You’ve got to keep an eye on what the spin is trying to do, and sometimes you will see echoes of spin: some credulous person repeating a bad-faith take because that’s why such takes are made in the first place.

  213. 213.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Kay: Ha! She’s not going to carry Ohio but that must drive them bonkers.

    Make ’em defend it. Better yet: Make them try to pry enough $$$ out of Cheeto Benito’s greedy orangestained hands to fund a defense. There won’t be enough popcorn in the visible universe for those of us watching Thuglican operatives and the multiply-convicted heading-for-jailbird squabble over every last cent.

  215. 215.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    Berniebros was a topic of conversation after 2016 because Hillary lost. We didn’t talk about PUMAs after 2008 because Obama won. If Kamala wins, much of the pain some people are feeling will dissipate.  Winning heals a lot of wounds.

  216. 216.

    Kay

    @Chris Johnson:

    I know you sincerely believe this but I don’t. I think you have gotten so deep into Russia manipulating our every move that you now are literally trying to control all dialogue that you think may “help” Russia.

    To me that means you have lost. Russia now actually controls us. It won’t work anyway. Ordinary people are just not going to accept this frame where all outcomes are controlled by Russia and they are not going to have a political debate within the parameters and frame of “what Russia could possibly want, so let’s obey in advance”.

  217. 217.

    Quinerly

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    “Which all would have been fine if Biden were provided space to make a meaningful choice on his own.  He wasn’t.” (#195)

    This sounds like Trump in that train wreck of a presser.

    You and Trump in the same room with Biden when he voluntarily came to his decision he needed to step aside for the sake of the country and the party in order to have a better chance at winning? Wow! An insider!

  219. 219.

    Scout211

    Can we resume pointing and laughing at ridiculous Republican Trump surrogates?  Some of them are just blatantly ridiculous.

    New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu (R) signaled in an interview Friday that age stopped being an issue in the 2024 election after President Biden announced he was withdrawing from the race.

    “The age issue has played out,” Sununu told NewsNation’s Elizabeth Vargas. “Biden lost that question.”

    Nice try Sununu.  LOLOLOL.

  223. 223.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    But Biden won in 2020. So obviously winning didn’t make a bit of difference. The “Left stabbing us in the back” is still a daily theme on this site and Twitter. Fine with me. But if you’re going to throw a punch, then take one. IMO this theory didn’t make any fucking sense and still doesn’t make any fucking sense. I’ll continue to say that.

    It’s ideological. It’s fine to oppose the Left side of the Democratic Party because one is a centrist or Right leaning. There’s plenty of room in the D Party for centrist or Right leaning. No one has to exclude the Left as Democrats. Just be centrist ior Right leaning! Fine by me! I accept and welcome that part of the Party- why can’t centrist and Right leaners reciprocate?

  225. 225.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    A choice made amidst a years long campaign driving for that particular outcome is not a choice at all. I would have respected it if not for the environment it occurred in.

    It’s like commending people floating in the Atlantic for their brave choice to get in the Titanic’s lifeboat. Except the Titanic was hit with a missile in this telling.

  226. 226.

    Steve LaBonne

    @Chris Johnson: I’m trying to stay out of this crap, but I am going to point out that Biden ran a Rose Garden campaign in 2020, of necessity because of COVID. He was not even then capable of running anything within a parsec of the kind of campaign Harris is running, and is still less capable of it now. You can be a great President but no longer have the energy to do that AND maintain a grueling campaign schedule. And that is all I am going to say on the subject. Everyone should feel free to pie filter me if they don’t like it.

  230. 230.

    Kay

    @Chris Johnson:

    The Russia “controls all of us” theme among Democrats worries me in the same way “we reject all polls” and “we no longer read newspapers” worries me. Because that’s a path we can’t go down. The Democratic Party is one of the few functioning institutions left – we have to stay grounded. We’re the only people actually governing at the federal level. We cannot go off on these tangents where we blame everyone but the candidate when things don’t go our way.

  231. 231.

    Chris Johnson

    @Kay: I would gently change the tense of that… ‘controlled’ us. :)

    Yeah, I do, I sincerely believe Russian money and chaos internet operations gave us 2016, and that’s why we can even say ‘ex-President Trump’. But it’s not 2016.

    I think if Russia hadn’t tried to cash in that control and invade Ukraine (just one in a series of invasions, past and future) we’d still be effectively controlled, but there’s a major drawback in that sort of plan: it has limits.

    If you took such control and then just tried to manage government and run the country without doing anything crazy, I doubt it would run out of steam, but the reason Russia’s continued nonsense doesn’t win the day, is because it’s always and only to serve Russia’s interests, and they’re unreasonable interests. You can blackmail lots of people, you can make everybody conspiracy-brained, you can establish lots of confusion, but there’s only so much you can do under those conditions.

    I do think they controlled ‘us’ (hell, I’ll own that for a while I was listening to the horseshoe left side of their stuff, but I worked out where those narratives were coming from) but that control is now broken and it’s not coming back. The only thing to do is keep an eye on the known techniques by which they did it, and be grateful there were sharp limits on how many shenanigans they could get up to while they DID have control.

    Also, chaos politics SUCKS at doing the job of a manager, and that has killed a bunch of Republican state campaigns. Just because the Russian way of chaos controls a thing does not mean the thing will win. They have to also be able to throw a lot of money and be asking for things the people also want to see.

  233. 233.

    Ken

    @Scout211: I dunno, Sununu may have a point. After all, wasn’t age really a surrogate for capability? I’m happy to drop the idiocy on focusing on one number, and ask whether a candidate is mentally and emotionally fit.

    (Mind you, I’ll still drop into casual conversation the observation that Walz could serve eight years under Harris, then eight years as President, and still be younger than Trump is today — because I’m petty that way.)

  234. 234.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @TBone: Triumphalism was never cool. I was chilling until I saw Quinerly up there trying to rewrite history.

  235. 235.

    Baud

    @Ken:

    I hear you. But we should focus on his age too. The haters have invested a lot over the last few years making age an issue.  Let’s use it against them.

  237. 237.

    BritinChicago

    @p.a.: Yes, there were poor choices in 2016 (as well as the Comey letter fueling the wholly stupid “What about her emails?” nonsense). This time, let’s focus. The likely Dem states plus MI, WI, and PA get, by my count, exactly 270 and victory. GA, AZ, NV, are within reach and wonderful insurance in case one of the first three doesn’t come through. NC is not impossible but the chances of its being needed (voting Harris/Walz when then wouldn’t have enough votes without it) are v small. FL and TX are nice to dream about, but not the place to spend resources with such a close race, and so much at stake. I hate it that we have the EC system but we do and must live with it.

  238. 238.

    Kay

    @Chris Johnson:

    The Democratic Party is arguably the most successful anti fascist mechanism and institution in the world. It works. And almost no US institutions work right now. They’re all fucking failing, one after another. Let’s not screw it up with stab in the back theories every time one of our candidates takes a hit.

    I’m as shocked as anyone that our messy, diverse, bickering Party ended up being the last institution standing, but it did. It’s resilient. It works although just about every advantage goes to Republicans. That’s valuable.

  239. 239.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: The online left and the press bloodied him for 4 years.  The debate was the final blow. He did not get any credit for the economic turnaround and basically ending trickle down economic policies and investing in manufacturing from the online left or the press.

    Biden made some powerful enemies by upending the status quo. Both within party and outside it.

    The online left and the press influence the discourse in DC  whether we like it or not.

  241. 241.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Kay: Hard disagree. I’m excited about the individuals at the top of the ticket but Democrats, as a whole, took a savage hit in my esteem this year. After this year, some serious changes need to be made. If Dems won’t do it, I’m looking elsewhere.

  243. 243.

    Chris Johnson

    @Kay: I would want to specify the newspaper. Look at how the New York Times behaves and tell me they’re a normal political actor.

    Back to 2016: people really did used to think that the Times was journalism and not a political actor, much less an abnormal political actor controlled out of, yeah I’m gonna say Russia, look what they specifically enabled and the history of their political actions over the last 20 years.

    I’m absolutely not okay with ‘this sounds too weird, therefore we should normalize trusting the reporting of the New York Times like they’re journalism, or even a normal political actor’. From how I’ve seen them behave, them in particular I can’t accept. I’m not okay with ‘going back to trusting them’, nor do I think anybody should.

    And I don’t want to generalize that to ‘nobody should ever trust journalism again’ because I specifically think they’re doing the Russian thing, and that they stopped being journalism WELL before 2016. OK? :)

  244. 244.

    Kay

    @Chris Johnson:

    I disagree. I was told no one can mention Gaza because that’s “what Iran wants”. Gaza is real. The discussion about Gaza is real. If I accept Iran’s influence as justification for ending US public dialogue and disagreement about US policy in Gaza then Iran won. You gave it to them.

  246. 246.

    PST

    Just for the record, here is the complete text of the Minnesota statute that has republicans calling Walz “Tampon Tim.” It doesn’t say what they claim it says. It’s also short and simple.

    121A.212 ACCESS TO MENSTRUAL PRODUCTS.
    A school district or charter school must provide students with access to menstrual products at no charge. The products must be available to all menstruating students in restrooms regularly used by students in grades 4 to 12 according to a plan developed by the school district. For purposes of this section, “menstrual products” means pads, tampons, or other similar products used in connection with the menstrual cycle.

  249. 249.

    New Deal democrat

    @WereBear: I lost the cybertruck challenge a few weeks ago, when I first saw one in the wild.

    Even uglier than in the pictures. All I could think was, “it’s an old fashioned coffin on wheels!”

  250. 250.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @MagdaInBlack:

    I’m one who does not want to see either Beyonce or Swift show up at the DNC.  That would turn the attention to them.…I’m good with inauguration tho.

    How about the dynamic duo as the October surprise? Beyoncé and Taylor, pumping up voter registration and early voting to their tremendous fan base, FTW…

  252. 252.

    3Sice

     “A lot of bullshit happens in our country. But a lot of great things happen, too.”

    -Kevin Durant

  254. 254.

    Kay

    @Chris Johnson:

    Part of political skill is dealing with media in a way that benefits you. The NYTimes is real. Harris has to deal with it. She does, IN FACT, have to give interviews to major media in a Presidential campaign. And she will be just fine. Because she’s good at this. If there’s anything a prosecutor knows how to do it’s turn a question into a different question and answer that. I actually think she should flood the zone. Do four a week, by phone. Any “gotcha” moments will be buried under talk, talk, talk and she needs media skills when she’s President.

  255. 255.

    p.a.

    Win this goddamned election, then we can go our “Popular People’s Front” vs “People’s Popular Front” way on how Joe B was treated.

    Signed, The Great Political Instincts(//s) Of Someone Who Thought He Was Too Old In 2020

     

    p.s.- what wouldn’t you do to prevent tRump winning this time?

  257. 257.

    Baud

    @p.a.:

    So… The nice thing here is that Biden loyalists would never dream off letting Trump win to teach the party a lesson. There’s no cause for concern.

  258. 258.

    Steve LaBonne

    @Kay: She is wisely concentrating on local media. The voters we need in the critical states know nothing and care less about FTFNYT. I wouldn’t reward their bad behavior with access.

  259. 259.

    Kay

    @PST:

    In the documentary “Shiny Happy People” two of the Duggar girls who were molested by their brother say that Megyn Kelly worked with the GOP to conduct an “interview” with them that laundered the sexual abuse they suffered. They consider the Megyn Kelly interview worse than the sexual abuse they suffered, because they were coerced into going along with this fake interview Kelly took part in.

    She’s an absolute scumbag. That’s all anyone has to know about her “tampon” accusation. She abused two girls for money.

  261. 261.

    TS

    @Kay:

    They know Republicans will use the proposed insider trading law to knock out any Democrat who they can trump up some fake scandal about.

    It is so infuriating that republicans do this with impunity. The rules never apply to them but they search for others that do as they do.

  262. 262.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Kay: I disagree that she has to deal with major media. She can deal with smaller, more responsible media. Major media thrives on prestige and access. Deny it to them. Make them piece together their stories secondhand.

  263. 263.

    Kay

    @Steve LaBonne:

    I disagee. Flood the zone. Talk talk talk. I would exclude just the NYTimes. Do WaPo and CNN and NBC and ABC. Do the Los Angeles Times. No “exclusives”. That’s bullshit anyway and a bad incentive for media.

    But I agree on local media. George W Bush did that and we were all envious in 2004. It’s smart.

  265. 265.

    Chris Johnson

    @Kay: Oh, I’m not shocked at all.

    OF COURSE we’re still standing.

    We tolerate and embrace diversity, argument and a big tent where it’s just a giant scrum of interests and we’re just trying to make sense of it all. We are BORN in chaos.

    It’s also called ‘democracy’. It means, no matter who you are or how bright you think you are, reality can come upside your head and then you adapt rather than throwing a fit, and you make the most of it, there and then, as well as you can.

    I was god-damned ride or die for Biden. I would not hear otherwise. I was pie-ing people who bugged me too much about it. And then, Joe Biden voluntarily stepped down, which he did not have to do, and he knows better than me about the situation in the campaign and the strength of the other people there, and I backed his play. And it WAS his play, because he wants the best for us and for democracy.

    And yeah, I’ll fight ya to a TBogg unit over the idea that it was his play. Because that, too, smells like ‘narratives’ to me.

    Biden voluntarily stepping down is democracy in its highest sense, statesman-like.

    The opposing narrative, that it’s all unaccountable powerbrokers and evildoers giving him an offer he can’t refuse just so they can get their way, only to then presumably blackmail Kamala Harris in turn, and who’s to say whether there will be another coup and another and another because that’s just how nefarious these Democrats are, you can’t trust ’em and you can’t believe for a second a black woman REALLY would be allowed to be President…

    pfaugh. And you call ME conspiracy brained.

    Biden voluntarily stepped down. It’s the most dramatically heroic thing I ever saw, and we had his back and backed his choice and it all fell together, and yes, as a matter of fact, I’ll get to cast a ballot for a black President for a third time, and for a woman on top of that.

    Without waiting another four years… cos I was already looking forward to it.

  266. 266.

    Kay

    @Steve LaBonne:

    No 1 and a 1/2 hour interviews though. That benefits no one but the media celebrity. She does short speeches, do short interviews. No one wants to watch them ask her what she thinks about Trump’s latest attack for 90 minutes. Make them use an editor. They get 30 or 45. Use it wisely!

  267. 267.

    Spanky

    @Kay:

    But the GOP is never, ever going to run out of money.

    Amen to that. We’re lucky right now that tfg is sucking so much of it up for himself. Once he’s out of the way I fear that it’s going to resume flowing to more local races. I’d almost rather have a blue wave in the Senate right now to buffer against the next cycle or 2.

  268. 268.

    Steve LaBonne

    @Anyway: People like this would be just as unhappy in a multiparty, proportional parliamentary system. They could have their little party that gives them exactly what they want, but it could only participate in government as a small part of a coalition that would greatly resemble the Democratic Party.

  269. 269.

    Quinerly

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: guess I should have put a trigger warning for the word, “voluntarily.” Trump, too, seems triggered by the thought that anyone, including, Biden would do something good for sake of country and party. Do you also think someone went to Biden and threatened him with the 25th Amendment?

    I take Biden at his word. He made the decision to step down after reviewing all available data and knowing his situation. Why do you refuse to take Biden at his word?

  270. 270.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: They did at the end. Agreed. I think actually BS personally likes Biden. But the online left has never been happy with Biden since he beat their faves BS and EW.

    You can check their comment history or social media posts.

  271. 271.

    Gvg

    @Kay: Not exactly. A lot of Trump’s specific rich support has been Russian connected and does seem to be less free with the money now.

    Your premise that the GOP would never be short of money is based on older history not recent. Several state GOP’s are bankrupt or close to it. I never remember that happening before. Trumps GOP has changed some longstanding Republican economic policies in ways that don’t really benefit most capitalists such as tariffs, trade wars, restraint of trade and other things. The threatening to default started before him but it is also bad for business. A lot of businessmen who aren’t fully nuts seem to be hedging their bets or staying back.
    It probably doesn’t help that Trump is obviously to smart businessmen skimming the money to spend on himself not on his election nor on other republicans elections (to get himself more congressmen and pass what he wants), so the smart ones don’t want to waste their money. He is too short sighted and greedy and they have his measure now.
    The league fights sucked up a lot of money. I was hoping it would continue.

    Several big GOP support organizations have gone under. The NRA seems to have been at least partly funded by Russia. Maybe the reason was their American funding was exaggerated or began dropping some time ago.

    Russia doesn’t control us. But the rich aren’t all with Trump for multiple reasons, one being he isn’t really best for all of them. Another reason is that some like Musk aren’t that liquid. And Musk is stupid too, or has fried his brains. We have to watch out for them, but we have some chances to rein in the excess wealth too.

  272. 272.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Anyway: From my viewpoint in Massachusetts, what I see is a crippled Republican Party and an electorate mostly comprised of unenrolled people, what we call independent.

    Giving the MA Republicans an ideological shove while trying to rally independents is starting to look like a better bet than convincing Democrats to turn away from their own money masters.

  275. 275.

    CaseyL

    Today is cool and overcast in Seattle, normally a perfect hiking day. But I got into a little accident yesterday, and although my car is driveable, I’m not keen on taking it on a long drive to a trailhead. (It currently lacks a passenger-side mirror.)

    Feh.

    I might chance a drive to the nearest in-city park, which is one of my faves anyway. The one with the beaver family.

    Or not. Might be an aftereffect of the accident, but I don’t feel like doing much today.

  276. 276.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @schrodingers_cat: As I said, people have made up their minds, so I’m going to keep the receipts and move on. As Gin and Tonic said in an earlier thread, “OK, you won. Happy?”

  279. 279.

    BR

    @Kay: ​

    Yeah, I agree that she she completely ignore the NYT and say so, and do everyone else, starting with the less ridiculous papers like LA Times.

  280. 280.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Quinerly: If everyone is haranguing you to do something then you do it, the outcome can’t be said to be voluntarily regardless of what you might have otherwise done or your original intent.

    It is your behavior, after and especially before, that is making it impossible for me and others to accept what happened.

    ETA: I thought you had somewhere to be.

  281. 281.

    Chris Johnson

    @Quinerly: This, thank you.

    I remember being really, genuinely frustrated at another narrative that it was some actor, I guess the guy who was making ‘drop out’ noises whose name I happily forget now, and that actor was in fact one of the creepy power brokers who was going to depose the United States President because apparently we don’t have a government but we do have rich assholes?

    I’m sure someone will remind me but right now I am very happy I’ve forgotten the name of the guy. I was so offended at the mere suggestion. It seemed like a real capital N narrative there. The idea of ‘oh didn’t you know this actor actually controls all the government and so this is the nominee he wants and we are but peasants, helpless’.

    Wow, that was a tough couple of weeks. We had some trolls in those days. Boy howdy did we have us some trolls.

  283. 283.

    karen gail

    @Baud: She gave a number of interviews about insider trading; she didn’t say that she did it. In some cases she said she was working to ban it; but she did say that it was considered a perk of office. The interviews were in 2022; I am not sure where it went but know that many opposed her.

  285. 285.

    M31

    @Chris Johnson: I was ride-or-die Biden as well, also knowing that he’d do the right thing.

    I was reading the doctor’s letters every day while he had covid, and it struck me that it might have been the push over the line for him that he might not have the necessary energy for the campaign.

    Several days in a row, beside the ‘improving’, there was a note of ‘dry cough’ or ‘unproductive cough’ (can’t remember), and that would have been so unpleasant for Joe, that really would have brought home to him that if he stayed in it would be 4 months of travel and speaking before crowds and doing everything energetically and correctly — against the headwinds of the NYT and its sycophants, the Russian bot farms, the GOP (but I repeat myself), and now doubting members of his own party.

    Any normal politician I think would have braved it out. I sometimes wonder if Hilary Clinton shouldn’t have run in 2016 given that she knew there was the 30-year-old NYT campaign against her, the FBI NY field office, the many major media figures covering her who were later outed as sex pests (or worse), etc. etc. I mean, she almost won but still she had the headwinds against her. Not that Bernie would have done better, he was different but also had plenty of easy ammo against him and was not much of a coalition builder, to put it mildly. LOL Biden 2016 would have done better, but you know, the Biden of 2020’s accomplishments are amazing and probably wouldn’t have happened in 2016.

  286. 286.

    Freemark

    @p.a.: I will also say they (Hillary Campaign) made bad decisions. Here in Central PA their ground game was poorly organized and ineffective. The TV ads were 90% ‘Trump bad’. I didn’t see almost any positive spots about HC until two weeks before the election which, by that time, people had completely tuned out.

    I hope the Harris campaign runs mostly positive spots about her and Coach and lets the PACs run the ‘Trump bad’ spots.

  287. 287.

    Starfish

    I have no clue what the children are doing to J. D. Vance with the meme responses to a Vance TikTok.

    To the Balloon Juice commenter who said that the references to Vance’s eyeliner are taking on a homophobic Ms. Lindsay vibe (I don’t remember who said this), I stand corrected and believe you are right.

  288. 288.

    karen gail

    @Quinerly: She gave a number of interviews summer 2022; she was seeking to get insider trading banned. Her point, made poorly by way questions were framed or by editing, was that it was considered one of the perks of office.

  289. 289.

    Steve LaBonne

    @karen gail: Saying it was considered (not that SHE considered it) a perk of office was an attack on it. This should be elementary reading comprehension given that she wanted to ban it. As Coach Walz would say, come on.

  291. 291.

    KatKapCC

    @rikyrah: The way the end of the subhead is worded — “…most voters don’t seem to have major reservations about her” — makes it sound like poor Nate is just so bummed about that. Like it makes him sad. “But Mommy, I want my horserace politics!!!!!”

  292. 292.

    Starfish

    @M31: I think that better candidates than Bernie would have run had Clinton chosen not to run. When she chose to run, a lot of the party money got locked up in her candidacy because she had the party connections.

    Besides the 30 year smear campaign, we had just sat through TWO different presidents from the Bush family. The appetite to have the presidency passed between two families was not there. And I know that a lot of first-women to do a thing are related to dudes who have done a thing, but that is less exciting than the feeling that ANY woman could be exceptional.

  294. 294.

    M31

    @Starfish: omg those comments are gold

    ‘tell us your eyeliner routine, we’re so here for gender-affirming care’

    hahahahaha

    plus the couch jokes

    I mean, Walz is 60 and Vance is 40 and let’s just say the youth vote going with the old guy hahahahahaha

  295. 295.

    Chris Johnson

    @M31: Oh, let’s enrage everyone including my 2016 self :D

    Bernie would not have won. Not in a million, billion years. He was getting propped up by russians TOO. There’s no way he was their main guy.

    The difference is, I was working in the Sanders campaign, in 2015, in New Hampshire, and so I was personally there to see not only some of the moderate failings of the Clinton campaign at the time (like not bothering to canvass in rural areas because she wanted to hyper-canvass in cities), but also the weird shit like Slavic-lookin’ people whose faces didn’t match the names they gave (I later checked…) and who hated, hated, HATED Hillary with a passion I couldn’t understand, and were not shy about it, behind closed doors.

    Bernie would not have won. Fight me XD

  296. 296.

    KatKapCC

    @Kay: Honestly, maybe this is effed up of me, but I want him to say it in public. Go ahead, Donnie, push even more centrist and Republican women toward us. Let them hear with their own ears that we’re not lying about you hating women.

  297. 297.

    Quinerly

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: you need to check the order of my comments in this thread. And how little I have said about Biden in the last 10 plus days in other threads. Actually, I don’t think I have mentioned his name in 10 plus days. Feel free to correct me. I won’t pie you.😉

    I am NOT the one interjecting Biden and my personal thoughts about Biden and how he was treated in every thread. Quite frankly, some of you are becoming cultist about him. My Democratic Party is not a party of one personality. Biden is a big boy. He made his decision. As I have said before, politics is a bloodsport and Handsome Joe (I can say that honestly. He has a strong resemblance to my last really serious boyfriend) knows the game better than most.  It becomes clearer every day that he made the right decision. Why don’t you focus your energy on applauding the FACT that he made the right decision? He will go down in history the great man that he is.

  300. 300.

    Another Scott

    @karen gail: AFAIK, Pelosi has never advocated members of Congress being able to do insider trading.

    AFAIK, her issue is being against banning family members or members of Congress from trading individual stocks.  Her husband is a stock trader, so she doesn’t like the idea of a blanket ban.

    E.g. CapitolTrades.com:

    Paul Pelosi’s disclosed trades between June 24 and July 1 include:

    * Broadcom Inc (AVGO:US): On June 24, they purchased 20 call options with an $800 strike price, expiring on June 20, 2025, valued between $1 million and $5 million. Since the purchase, Broadcom’s stock has risen by over 4%.

    * Nvidia Corporation (NVDA:US): Purchased 10,000 shares, valued between $1 million to $5 million.

    * Tesla Inc (TSLA:US): Sold 2,500 shares on June 6, valued between $250,000 to $500,000.

    * Visa Inc (V:US): Sold 2,000 shares on July 1, valued between $500,000 to $1 million.

    The trading activities of Congress members and their spouses have faced scrutiny, with calls for a ban on individual stock trading due to potential access to sensitive information. However, Pelosi has consistently opposed such legislation, emphasizing the importance of a free-market economy. In December 2021, she asserted, “They should be able to participate in that.” Moreover, in July 2022, she denied allegations of insider trading involving her husband, stating, “Absolutely not.”

    I don’t know how one sensibly prevents family members from earning a living if they aren’t using non-public information. And how one knows that someone isn’t using non-public information is tricky.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  301. 301.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Quinerly: I am NOT the one interjecting Biden and my personal thoughts about Biden and how he was treated in every thread.

    Neither am I. I respond if I see it. This was the first time I toggled into one of your pied comments in a few days and what I saw was continued triumphalism with some creative rewrites to reality.

    I’ll admit this isn’t as bad as when you tried to associate me with supposed death threats that were made.

    Maybe you’re just a malicious liar.

  303. 303.

    Chris Johnson

    @M31: The funniest thing is, I’m a youtuber. I have to do makeup for the TV lights (and set their color temperatures, etc) so that the 4K playback will look as good as the other youtubers who’ve got to the top of their youtubing game.

    I just use Johnson’s baby powder to get the glare to stop reflecting off my nose, etc. You can get much better powder compacts but I only use a little and it works fine, I don’t have to go full Boy George with it.

    And no shit, I have learned eyeliner tips from JD Vance that I probably ought to try. I use a tiny bit of mascara for videos because I like my eyes to not be totally washed out (even though that would be more masculine looking: I want more of a balance, and it’s 2024 and I could be all in bells and feathers if I wanted)

    Vance does this thing I’ve never heard of, where eyeliner pencil does not go on the OUTSIDE of the eyelashes, but on the edge between the lash and the eyeball. He does it heavy enough that it’s real noticeable. I think it actually looks pretty good, just kind of obvious.

    I need to try that. Why should I be too proud to take feminizing tips from JD Vance? :)

  304. 304.

    CaseyL

    I was ride-or-die with Biden, but it would be stupid to deny things have worked out for the best. The reason I was ride-or-die is because, and only because, I was sure the oligarchs were going to bypass Harris and install their own milquetoast, corporate-friendly candidate to undo Biden-Harris economic reforms.

    That didn’t happen. Boy Howdy, did that not happen.

    To maintain the backstabbing narrative at this point is tedious and counterproductive. I don’t understand why people insist on it, since it does absolutely nothing but give them and everyone else heartache.

    (I’m still pieing a lot of people from that whole traumatic month, because they were and are too eager to proclaim themselves the Only Smart Ones in the Room, and I’m happy to pie more if the corrosive shit doesn’t stop.)

  305. 305.

    M31

    @Chris Johnson: ​
     

    no fights here — no way Bernie would have won, his appeal is not nearly broad enough to engage the entire Democratic party, and as I said upstairs, let’s just say his coalition-building skills are not great.

    I do wonder what those Russians were about — I mean, the post-Wall collapse had a lot of US neo-liberal (*cough* Jeff Sachs) fingerprints on it, but these Russians would have been Putin employees so they were the winners? Not sure, but they for sure knew that Trump was their meal ticket to a weakened US (how right they were we now know) and that Sanders would have been easier to beat.

    LOL and the long-term result was Biden 2020 FUCKING their Ukraine plans with his handling of the early war (I’m with Silverman that the State Dept is so overly cautious that they are doing serious harm), and the sanctions, etc. I hope they are all choking on their own bile now.

  306. 306.

    Ruckus

    @zhena gogolia:

    At that time not nearly as many people knew how utterly crappy he was/is. They should have, but it wasn’t as absolutely obvious. And the concept of lots of money often has a tendency to overshadow a lot. IOW he must know what he’s doing. So he got a chance to prove that he doesn’t have a clue. And did. And of course since then he’s gotten far worse. And some will overlook a lot because of course money covers up a lot for some people. But for a segment of humanity, money is the linchpin of, well everything. But money won’t buy intelligence, common sense, humanity, those are qualities that can’t be bought for any amount of money. They are there or they aren’t. I’d bet you can imagine which of the candidates I think has them and which doesn’t.

  307. 307.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @CaseyL: I was ride-or-die with Biden, but it would be stupid to deny things have worked out for the best.

    For me, the immediate outcome is beside the point. I love Harris. I want her to win. I believe it’s going to be a blowout.

    Malicious actors should not be allowed to apply influence in the way they did. This needs to be dealt with. Otherwise the long-term problem continues to get worse.

  308. 308.

    Chris Johnson

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    Huh. There’s the catch, I think.

    If the only acceptable ‘reality’ is ‘nefarious democrats pulled off a coup and forced Biden out to replace him with whoever that actor guy wanted’, I’m going to kick up an enormous fuss, because that’s not how I saw it at all.

    I mean, if Vance is kicked out, then I’d entertain the idea that there’s horrible conspiracies and powerbrokers and it’s all evil and sick, but that’s because it’s the Republican party and I think they’re controlled by conspiracy-brained people. (see: Lazerpig, ‘How To Kill A God’, it goes right to the top of their operation)

    What I saw in the Democrats, and it was telegraphed in part by how Biden had already frozen out the New York Times and wouldn’t talk to them at all anymore, was that our government was in control and had a sense of all that was going on, and were doing the smartest things to counter it. And so, when Joe stepped down from the 2024 campaign, I took that at face value and was impressed with his humility, because my reading of it was that they were managing the complexity of a severely media-poisoned environment, the ‘zone’ as they call it, where everything’s lies and spin.

    Or, business as usual, for a working politician trying to do his job.

  309. 309.

    Quinerly

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I should add that if a handful of commenters here on this here blog are causing you such angst that you “can’t move on” and be HAPPY and HOPEFUL about all the joy in the Harris/Walz ticket, you should consider not reading the comments on obscure political blogs. It could be affecting your day to day life. Oftentimes dwelling on the past is not healthy.

    I find the same commenters who interject in almost every thread that “the party will stab Kamala in the back too” tedious, childish, and bordering on bizarre. But, I have no problems “moving on.”

    Go Kamala! Go Walz!! Thank you Pres Biden for giving us this opportunity!!! We move FORWARD.

  310. 310.

    M31

    @Chris Johnson: lol that’s great — I don’t make videos but do enough zoom stuff that I realize that some powder or eyemakeup would make me look better on camera

    lol Vance should just own up to it (but he won’t), he’ll just have his wife make some more weird lies

    they should all just bring up Nixon/JFK in 1960 when Nixon didn’t want makeup and he looked like a smarmy untrustworthy shiny headed guy with oily 5 oclock shadow

    lol and smarmy and untrustworthy is so un-Nixonian

  311. 311.

    Subsole

     

     

    @zhena gogolia:

    @Baud:

    And a large part of the reason we lost The Vibe War on Biden is because our slimeball media had time to solidify and amplify GOP narratives. As they have for…well, pretty much my entire adult life.

    It is kind of…shocking…just how completely and swiftly the GOP puke funnel seems to have clogged and fallen apart.

    It actually reminds me a bit of a tweet Adam posted, commenting on how hilariously inept Putin’s system is; how quickly it falls apart when things don’t proceed according to plan.

    Brittle.

    Inflexible.

    If I wanted to wax philosophical, I’d say it seems the Right has spent so much time obsessing over the hypermasculine desire to forge the hardest knife that they forgot an ultra hard metal is also one that snaps easily when subjected to lateral stress.

  312. 312.

    Another Scott

    @Another Scott: Having a few more minutes to think about this, and a little more caffeine (but maybe not enough), the answer seems to be quick and detailed disclosure.

    E.g. If a member of Congress, or covered family member, makes any financial trade, purchase, investment, etc, worth more than (say) $500, they must disclose the details (maybe within some range of values as above) within some quick (but reasonable) time frame.  They are responsible for doing it, but can have their broker/bank/lawyer do the reporting to the relevant agency.

    Members of Congress doing trading is toxic when people don’t know about it, or learn about it months/years later.  Pelosi selling Tesla on June XX is no bigger deal than anyone else selling Tesla on June XX if people know about it and can evaluate the information.

    Maybe there’s enough disclosure now – maybe the GQP and the press are unfairly beating up on Pelosi as usual, maybe there isn’t.  But normal people have to have some measure of confidence that there is.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  313. 313.

    Chris Johnson

    @M31: The kids these days would be fine if he wanted boobs, or a vagina, AND the beard AND the eyeliner and whatever the hell combination makes him happy, up to and including whatever pronouns he likes even if he makes some up, so long as he’s reasonably chill about it.

    Wow. It’s so liberating. I swear, the solution to toxic masculinity is for guys to get to have dicks AND eyeliner or whatever the hell else they want. In the world where women are chained to the kitchen, men are just as chained to a whole giant pile of bullshit requirements, and it’s nice to see all that eroding. We will all make sense of it somehow. I get a kick out of being a tiny little part of that great evolving.

  315. 315.

    Ruckus

    @WereBear:

    I was a designer/manufacturer of tooling for the plastics industry for many years. I was a hired machinist for almost the last 10 yrs of my working life, and worked to extremely tight tolerances. The other day I took my car to get it serviced and next door was a Tesla dealership. They had a number of those fugly things on the lot. And fugly is the best I can say about them. To me it looks like something designed by a 5 yr old and built by a toy company gone insane. The quality that I saw is not as bad as some think, but then it also isn’t all that and a pound of Sees either. I was reminded of a comic book drawing.

  316. 316.

    schrodingers_cat

    @The Thin Black Duke: The forces that forced Biden out are still powerful and we are going to have to protect this ticket esp. Harris from them.

    Pretending that they don’t exist because Biden outmaneuvered them when he stepped down is not helpful.

    But yeah you are right, if someone is pretending to be asleep you cannot wake them up.

  318. 318.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Quinerly: I am happy and hopeful about the ticket. Read my comment. I can have more feeling than once. I have depth.

    I will not abide people pretending that a wall-to-wall media campaign that resulted in that ticket I’m so happy with either didn’t occur or doesn’t have bad implications for the future of our democracy.

    If an orphanage burned down and in some way that resulted in permanent financial security for my friends and family for the rest of my life, I’m still not going to feel good about that. The way things happen matters.

  319. 319.

    3Sice

    Boehner rocked the guyliner. Vance vibes ‘lumpy couch-fucker’ regardless of hair, makeup or costuming.

  320. 320.

    PST

    @Kay: I agree that Kelly is disgusting (and keeps getting worse), but what led me to post that statute was listening to Trump in Montana claim that Walz ordered that schools install tampon machines in all boys’ bathrooms. I know he just repeats stuff he hears, but where did anyone get that from this statute?

  321. 321.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Quinerly: Maybe you need to learn to be more sensitive to other people’s feelings.

    You know I had one other person in my pie filter. Same reason as you and I hadn’t been in the habit of using it for my 16 plus years here.

    When I toggled them, I saw something different. They weren’t rubbing yet more salt in this known wound. They weren’t trying to rewrite history. Indeed, they referenced those events in a way that I thought respectful .

    I complimented them, sincerely.  It’s easy to let things go. Problem is that you’re still antagonizing.

  323. 323.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @PST: Trump didn’t get the Tampon Tim claim from the statute, he got.it.from LibsOfTikTok.

  324. 324.

    Ruckus

    @PST:

    I think it is worthless to try to figure out trump, he is to me, a waste of time. He is a guy who inherited a lot of money, some of which he may have stolen from his siblings and really made/did nothing worthwhile with it. And really, anyone paying attention should have known that he wouldn’t because he’s incapable of positive. He is a negative – a person without any positive aspects. He isn’t capable of positive. Being one, having one, not even buying one.

  325. 325.

    PST

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    If everyone is haranguing you to do something then you do it, the outcome can’t be said to be voluntarily regardless of what you might have otherwise done or your original intent.

    That doesn’t make sense to me. If I hear gunshots and hit the ground, does my action become involuntary just because I heard others shout “duck!”? If I tuck into a delicious dessert, is following my natural preference involuntary because everyone says, “Oh, you must try this. It’s delicious.”? I don’t think so.

  326. 326.

    Quinerly

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    It’s kinda hard to be sensitive of the feelings of people you don’t really know on a blog when people feel free to throw around “fuck you” willy nilly. The word, “voluntarily” seems to have sent you in a tailspin. Like I said…best keep me in your pie filter.

    I’m really not here that much. I find the repeativeness of “they too will stab Kamala” comments boring. I find the whole discussion of pie silly. Both these things usually turn me off from reading the comments until I think the thread is dead.

    And, while we are on the subject of comments, I wasn’t anywhere near that comment thread that the comments were shut down, yet you literally chased me down several threads later accusing me of wanting Biden’s head on a pike or some nonsense like that.  Weird.

  327. 327.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @PST: Imagine the whole of society; mass media, social media, folk on the street who would otherwise be uninterested but were engaged by a video; imagine them as one insisting “you must eat the cake.”

  328. 328.

    Subsole

     

     

    @Anyway:

    A grubby, selfish, whiny little weirdo bully sobbing about the fact he doesn’t get to have botnets and the media do his campaign advertising for free – which means his entire campaign strategy has collapsed – reminds you of people who wish we valued age and competence a little more as a culture?

    I would like you to unpack that, if you have the time.

  329. 329.

    Steve LaBonne

    @PST: Not many politicians would do what Biden did- voluntarily give up power for the public good. It was a truly noble act. A lot of his “supporters” are actually insulting him by minimizing the greatness of his decision, pretending it wasn’t really voluntary. And by now it should be obvious to everyone that it was the right decision. For the record I was offended by the press and politicians’ public campaign to get him to make that decision. And I am and remain deeply angry at the libelous insulting innuendos about his cognitive health (it’s the reason I no longer comment at LGM). But the truth is that we need a high-energy campaign like Harris’s and Biden couldn’t have done that in 2020, let alone now.

  332. 332.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Steve LaBonne: A lot of his “supporters” are actually insulting him by minimizing the greatness of his decision.

    I don’t know if you mean me, but I’m doing no such thing. I’m not saying it wasn’t the right thing to do. It became the right thing through artificial means.

    Power, unaccountable to democracy, was wielded against our sitting government. I’m pointing out danger. It’s good you’re upset too. Please give it a direction.

  334. 334.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Steve LaBonne: Well, you certainly don’t actually engage with what I’m saying. But you haven’t done anything truly out of pocket like falsely accuse me of issuing death threats.

    That’s why Quinerly is there. I almost never pie people.

  336. 336.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Subsole: According to Google there are 24,024 permutations of fourteen words.

    I’m gonna have to see some methodology before I accept that…🕵️

  337. 337.

    Chris Johnson

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Welcome to politics.

    Power is ALWAYS being wielded. It’s even possible that some Dem idiots wanted to throw it to Manchin or who the hell ever.

    Joe knows judo. flip

    Suddenly, that power has faceplanted, and the world’s a different shape that can better carry out JOE’s fondest goals, better than even he can.

    ALL power is unaccountable. Otherwise, there would be an accounting. There’s a reason AOC said ‘the job is complexity’. That complexity is all the powers being wielded all the time. Bibi is power. Pelosi is power. AOC is power, in her way.

    You can’t sit around waiting for conditions to be good. They never are. The power will never go away. That’s why we NEED a democracy, and why we need Democrats in particular, as long as we’re the ones trying to govern. We will never, never line up in the way the authoritarians happily do.

    Power being power doesn’t count as danger if you’re able to register it, and make appropriate decisions around it. Power is WHY Joe Biden couldn’t simply tell Bibi to fuck off long ago. The complexity is the job.

  338. 338.

    Ruckus

    @Subsole:

    Any structure, be it political or physical that cannot deal with movement will fail, unless it is so strong that everything around it moves instead. The world moves, often so subtly that we don’t know it’s doing so. Other times it lets us know, like say an earthquake. Which can be very interesting – and scary. Ask me how I know….

  339. 339.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Chris Johnson: Everyone you mentioned is a politician.

    When I say unaccountable to democracy, I mean money. Owners. A brave few individuals who decide what goes on TV and who gets paid what for what reasons.

    What they have control of we all built together. The one facet of power we wield is our vote. We can’t let it be weakened against the power wielded by wealth.

    We fear without our job we’ll falter or even starve. We let those who own broadcast rights or other massive information distribution capacity to shape our perceptions.

    Biden was only the latest target. They wield it against students and minority communities and women and especially the ones in those groups and all others who have to work for a living.

    It is their power that keeps us spinning our tires for decades. It needs to end.

  340. 340.

    Ruckus

    @Leto:

    Getting my car serviced a week or so ago and next door was a Tesla dealer. A number of cyber trucks on the lot and I have to say, that is one fugly vehicle. To me it looks like a complete waste of a lot of money. As someone who worked and owned a business in the metals manufacturing business, mostly making molds for manufacturing plastic things, it looks like something designed by a 6 yr old with a lot of paper and a set of crayons. To me it’s a cartoon takeoff of a science fiction novel.

  341. 341.

    Citizen Alan

    @Scout211: It’s so saddening to me that two women are quoted as having such vile, fascistic views.  But it confirms what I have always thought. Conservatives are the absolute worst, but conservative women are the worst of the worst. Pitiful hateful creatures so consumed with self loathing over their gender that they want to destroy the world in revenge for being born a woman instead of a man.

  342. 342.

    CaseyL

    @Citizen Alan:

    It’s probably a waste of effort to see into their minds, but…

    Take as a given they don’t see any world other than a patriarchal one as being possible, and decide on that basis to be the snipers, saboteurs, and informers in service of patriarchy since it’s the only way they know to have any autonomy or power.

    In which case, any attempt to bring down patriarchy means not only taking away what power they have, but also rendering worthless the betrayals (of self and others) they made to get it. Oh, and also rendering useless the “skills” they’ve developed along the way.

    IOW, Conservative Women are triply invested in protecting patriarchy.

    I think the same mental processes happen in any marginalized-population individual who claims to be “conservative.”

    None of this makes me feel sorry for them, but I find it interesting from an anthropological perspective.  These are the kinds of distortions, betrayals, and deceits that have shaped humans for at least as long as there has been patriarchy.

  343. 343.

    Steve LaBonne

    Biden was not the victim of any power play. The only reason why he didn’t quit earlier is that his inner circle was doing him the disservice of shielding him from bad news. When he finally saw how bad the polling was in swing states, and after a bout with COVID that probably made him admit to himself that he just didn’t have the energy to mount an effective comeback, he knew what he had to do and to his eternal credit he did it. I am quite capable of separating that chain of events from the public pressure (and smear) campaign which if anything was probably counterproductive in getting him to that point.

  344. 344.

    Anyway

    @Subsole: unwillingness (our side) and inability (Dotard) to accept the new reality.
    We have a great candidate, a great ticket and need to support them over the next 90 days. RThugs are masters at ratfucking and given the media and SCROTUS we need to focus on having the backs of our guys.

  345. 345.

    Citizen Alan

    @CaseyL:  In “Who Goes Nazi” by Dorothy Thompson, the author only identifies one female at the dinner party who would go Nazi. It is a housewife who got married young to a man who treats her like crap and as an inferior, and she has grown to see her acceptance of that treatment as a virtue.

    Mrs. E would go Nazi as sure as you are born. That statement surprises you? Mrs. E seems so sweet, so clinging, so cowed. She is. She is a masochist. She is married to a man who never ceases to humiliate her, to lord it over her, to treat her with less consideration than he does his dogs. He is a prominent scientist, and Mrs. E, who married him very young, has persuaded herself that he is a genius, and that there is something of superior womanliness in her utter lack of pride, in her doglike devotion. She speaks disapprovingly of other “masculine” or insufficiently devoted wives. Her husband, however, is bored to death with her. He neglects her completely and she is looking for someone else before whom to pour her ecstatic self-abasement. She will titillate with pleased excitement to the first popular hero who proclaims the basic subordination of women.

    Astonishing to see Moms For Liberty so accurately described as early as 1941.  At their core, all conservative women have made the calculation that it is better to live in a white supremacist society in which they are subordinate to white Christian men but superior to everyone else than to live in a pluralistic society in which they are equal to their husbands but also equal to everyone they consider inferior.

  346. 346.

    VFX Lurker

    @BritinChicago: Yes, there were poor choices in 2016 (as well as the Comey letter fueling the wholly stupid “What about her emails?” nonsense). This time, let’s focus. The likely Dem states plus MI, WI, and PA get, by my count, exactly 270 and victory. GA, AZ, NV, are within reach and wonderful insurance in case one of the first three doesn’t come through. NC is not impossible but the chances of its being needed (voting Harris/Walz when then wouldn’t have enough votes without it) are v small. FL and TX are nice to dream about, but not the place to spend resources with such a close race, and so much at stake. I hate it that we have the EC system but we do and must live with it.

    Before I listened to the Balloon-Juice Zoom with NC Black Alliance, I had similar thoughts — I also only considered the outcome of the Presidential race.

    After listening to the YouTube recording of that Zoom, I became more aware of the horrific peril of North Carolinians under a whackjob GOP governor. OMG. I don’t know if Kamala Harris will win North Carolina, but I sincerely hope Josh Stein wins the election for North Carolina’s governor. Anything that wins votes for Harris in North Carolina will help Josh Stein.

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