Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

Trump’s legal defense is going to be a dumpster fire inside a clown car on a derailing train.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

American History and Black History can not be separated.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

It looks like winning debates is a black job!

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

No Justins, No Peace

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

Bogus polls are all they’ve got left. Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls a year from now.

“Joe Biden deserved better than he got from some folks in his own party.”

Every day Vance writes another chapter in the book called “Worst VP Pick Ever”.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Monday Evening Open Thread: The Kidz Are Doing Their Best

Monday Evening Open Thread: The Kidz Are Doing Their Best

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The ‘professionals’ (Ben Smith, Editor-in-chief of @semafor, Former @nytimes media columnist, @buzzfeednews EIC)… maybe not so much:

Reader Interactions

120Comments

  2. 2.

    Jeffro

    I’m going to ignore Houle’s and Smith’s and Stoever’s tweets and just say that

    “an endless stream of good ideas and minimal oversight”

    is the way I’ve tried to live my life, lead my teams, and encourage Fro family members for decades now.

    And I resent Flaherty for putting it so succinctly and so well before I could copyright it.  =)

  4. 4.

    A Ghost to Most

    Just heard on local news that Tina Peters was convicted of seven of ten charges, including felonies.

  6. 6.

    TBone

    @Jeffro: me too, except I’ve had too many “I thought it was a good idea at the times” – I have always had the minimal oversight goal part down pat!

  7. 7.

    dm

    I have to admit the 100-day campaign has some attractions, but I don’t know how you’d make it work in real life, other than the way parliamentary democracies do it: surprise! let’s have an election next month!

  9. 9.

    BR

    @Kay:

    I was waiting for her to say “The Trump campaign says this is all fake enthusiasm, now we go to Steve Bannon in prison for comment.”

  10. 10.

    ArchTeryx

    The Dana Bash posting was, like most Xitter posts these days, immediately swarmed by BCTs (Blue Check Trolls) screaming “propaganda!” and claiming the media is “propping up” Harris. That’s pretty much ANYTHING even slightly D-leaning or liberal posted on Xitter these days.

    What little independent media is left really, REALLY needs to decamp from the neo-nazi summer camp Xitter has become.

  13. 13.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    The media would gladly ruin a 100 day campaign by somehow turning it into a 400 day clusterfuck.

  16. 16.

    hrprogressive

    If we had publicly financed campaigns that didn’t require millions or billions of dollars to run successfully, then a 100-day campaign could work.

    Let’s overturn citizens united, ban all private money from politics, have the feds subsidize all federal races for office, and limit campaigns to a quarter.

    Boom, done.

    Also, the “kidz” running Kamala HQ are fucking brilliant, don’t restrict them in any way from winning this, and any other, battle.

  17. 17.

    Ukai

    Dana Houle probably didn’t tag Ezra Klein out of professional courtesy, but he really should’ve, if only to prevent Ezra from writing dumb columns about how nominations work later on.

  19. 19.

    scav

    @PaulWartenberg: Vows of political celibacy seem about as honored by the party of traditional values as strictly as all their other vows.  Not only do they have hot dates lined up for the honeymoon, they’ve listed their gifts of lingerie to same on the wedding registry . . .

  20. 20.

    lamh47

    @TBone: I honestly doubt it truly has “minimal oversight”…smh.

    From what I’ve noticed, it is very well organized, and TBH with that age group, I have found “minimal” oversight never works.

  21. 21.

    RSA

    Sorry if this is old news, but I really liked this opinion piece from a former student of Walz:

    A memo to the Trump campaign from a former Walz student and dormant Republican
    Don’t think you’ll get anywhere by trashing his character.
    The idea that “all politics is local” has been more of a theory than a reality when it comes to presidential election cycles.
    This idea, however, has taken on a new meaning for me and fellow former students of Tim Walz as news of his announcement as Kamala Harris’ vice presidential running mate led national news cycles last week.
    Of particular interest for me — and I imagine for others who’ve sat in his classrooms over the years — has been the GOP’s strategy to paint Walz as an extreme coastal liberal who, if given his way, would love to pull the country into communism.
    (Chuckle.)
    As a 30-something who’s voted for the other guys more often than Walz’s party, I might have a unique POV on presidential candidate Donald Trump’s campaign painting Walz this way.

  22. 22.

    different-church-lady

    This the debut solo concert for this pianist! How could she be so talented on such short notice?

  23. 23.

    Baud

    There’s no realistic way to prevent candidates from seeking out endorsements, giving speeches, and raising money as early as they want, or to keep the media from reporting in the horse race at the earliest moment.  Doesn’t matter when you move the primaries to.

  24. 24.

    lowtechcyclist

    @hrprogressive:

    Let’s overturn citizens united, ban all private money from politics, have the feds subsidize all federal races for office, and limit campaigns to a quarter.

    Sure, overturn Citizens United and have the Feds subsidize races for Federal office.

    I think you’d also have to overturn Buckley v. Valeo for the second one (banning private money). The last one? I don’t see how that could possibly be squared with the First Amendment.

  25. 25.

    bbleh

    If it doesn’t involve trying to influence the press most of the press has little or no interest in it.

    I think there is a significant degree of illusion among Good Government folks that the Fourth Estate is still willing to exercise their power with some degree of responsibility.

    They are not.  Any more than the current Supreme Court is.  The notion of exercising power responsibly rather than to advance one’s own immediate interests, even to the potential detriment of everyone and everything else, including one’s own institution, is considered by pretty much all Republicans and business interests to be quaint, old-fashioned, and just damn dumb.  And the media are owned and increasingly directly controlled by … business interests.

    “Ethics” — ha!  How many divisions do the ethicists have?

  27. 27.

    Kay

    @West of the Rockies:

    Agree. I thought it was really important to prosecute the election officials and clerks. They can’t do those jobs anymore after these breaches of trust. I wonder if she turned down a deal to go to trial. The My Pillow Man says he paid for her defense.

  29. 29.

    wjca

    @RSA: I particularly like the end:

    Make the campaign about the Trump tax policy. Make it about China. Make it about the border.
    Make it about anything other than leadership, decency and competency.
    Because if you don’t, and this becomes a character debate, you’re way out of your league. [emphasis added]

    “Way out of your league” when it comes to character.  Yup, that’s Trump and Vance.

  30. 30.

    suzanne

    @dm:

    surprise! let’s have an election next month! 

    Honestly….. yes? Having them on a fixed interval makes so much of the calendar unusable. Like we can’t get major legislation passed during the entire year leading up to the election.

    And the amount we spend is fucken ludicrous.

  31. 31.

    Betty Cracker

    @PaulWartenberg: Disgusting but unsurprising. The corruption in this state across multiple agencies and institutions would embarrass Louisiana. I hope the feds are on it.

    Also wonder if Sasse bailed because this was coming out. I heard his wife was ill and that he was demoting himself to professor so he could look after her and the kids. Thought that sounded decent, and I momentarily forgot — oh yeah, a Repub, so of course he’s a corrupt crook. They all are.

  33. 33.

    Eolirin

    @Baud: Yeah we’d need a parliamentary system where the president is selected by the party and stays in waiting until the party comes into power. Decoupling the primary process from the election process.

    It’s part of why those other democracies can pull off short time frames. But there’s other factors for why the US is always gonna be a bit slow too.

  37. 37.

    p.a.

    @dm: hacked emails?   Meh: except for filthy language, which the talabangelicals will excuse anyway, what could be more damaging than the idiot’s loud public emissions?  Well, maybe the puke he would aim at his own supporters in private!  That could ding him.

  41. 41.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Baud: Yup.  The primary season is as long as politicians make it and people pay attention to it.  The only way to shorten it would be for everyone to completely ignore the campaigning politicians, news articles and refrain from discussing it all.

    The notion of that being even remotely possible is laughable to read, especially here in a place where people never stop talking, 24/7 about who the candidate should be (even when we already have one).  This space is just as addicted to horse-race politics and polls as all the spaces/people we love to mock.

  42. 42.

    lamh47

    Ok…how’s bout some Maui trip planning?

    1.) I’ve given up on Mama’s Fish House, ya have to make reservations and if you cancel you may still have to pay a cancellation fee…smh…nah.

    2.)Decided I want to do Luau for my birthday night dinner…sooooooo recommendation for Maui luaus would be cool

    3.)I look into Road to Hana and uh…yeah, it’s not for me or the group.  My sister really does get car sickness and cuzo does NOT like winding roads.  That’s okay, I def want to do other things and we’ll have a rental for the 5 days, so we can do other stuff, right?

    4.)sunrise or sunset, which is better and which is easier to do?

    As always any other recs that come to mind is welcome (BTW, I’ve already recorded the last group of res I got the other day…thanks so much (thx Sure Lurkalot, NotMax, What Have the Romans…, trollhattan, Soprano2, bbleh, Sister Golden Bear, BR, Mousebumples, etc…).

  43. 43.

    karen marie

    @dm:  Wapo’s “gift links” are bullshit.  One can view the gift-linked article but one has to create an account to do so.  In other words, one has to give Wapo something of value – personal information – in exchange for the “gift” of one article.

    Fuck that noise.

  46. 46.

    Jackie

    @Quinerly:

    Technical difficulties are dogging this Trump/Musk interview. No sound bites. Nothing.

    BAAHAHAHAAAA! Gasp BAHAHAHAAA!

    Didn’t the SAME THING happen with Pudd’n Boots?😂

    Is there any ketchup left in south Florida for TCFG to throw? BAHAHAHAAA!!

  50. 50.

    KatKapCC

    @karen marie: You do not have to create an account. I’ve mentioned before: You can put anything into the email box. Literally “[email protected]” and it will say “Thanks now you can read, check your email to set up a password”. The pop up goes away, you can read the article without doing anything else.

  52. 52.

    M31

    lol reading bluesky reports on the musk-trump webcast and it’s hilarious, elmo saying they’ve been ddosed (but the rest of the site is fine, huh), various snafus, weird shuffling sounds from Trump’s mic but then it was cut off, Maggie Habs forwarding bill Ackman tweets saying they can’t get in hahahahaha

    the best is that crypto scammers are setting up alternate, fake feeds using AI Elmo’s voice pitching crypto scams, that’s just *chef’s kiss* to it all

    only the best

  53. 53.

    Baud

    @lamh47:

    That’s too bad. If I recall correctly, there’s a lookout at the top of the mountain that doesn’t require hiking to get to.

  58. 58.

    Anne Laurie

    @Eolirin: It’s part of why those other democracies can pull off short time frames. But there’s other factors for why the US is always gonna be a bit slow too.

    The (mostly) United States are more like the European Union than a single European country — fifty (plus) different political entities struggling to work together.  Given the speed with which the EU does *not* move (IIRC, it can take literal years for a new President to be chosen, and meanwhile the office sits empty), our unbeloved quadrennial fustercluck is not the worst that could be…

  60. 60.

    Citizen Alan

    @lowtechcyclist: We’re not going to achieve anything related to campaign finance (or anything else of national importance) without breaking the ultra-conservative supermajority on SCOTUS. Which I don’t see happening at any point in the next 20 years without expanding SCOTUS. And when I say 20 years, I mean holding the White House for 20 consecutive years in hopes that enough of the bastards die off while the Dems also hold the Senate.

    If Kamala wins and Dems take both the House and Senate (and probably are willing to nuke the filibuster), then we can start overturning the awful decisions that have been ruining this country for decades. Otherwise, I expect to spend the remainder of my life watching the federal judiciary slowly dismantle the nation one civil right at a time.

  61. 61.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @lamh47: We stayed in Kapalua when we went back in the late 80’s and Kapalua and Kanapaali both had great snorkeling.  Back then, the north shore of the island was pretty chill with not much there besides those two resorts.  There were some cool cliffs to watch wind-surfing and paragliding up there.

    There were also snorkeling trips to Molokini a small volcanic crater off the SW coast but we never did one.  Mt. Haleakala was neat but cloudy on the day we went so you couldn’t really see much as far as views.  The road to Hana was definitely better avoided for those who get car-sick.

  62. 62.

    Quinerly

    “Checking in on Trump’s interview with Elon. Getting some real Ron DeSantis flashbacks,” Harris spokesperson Ammar Moussa posted on X.

  63. 63.

    Ken

    @M31: elmo saying they’ve been ddosed

    He’s not entirely wrong; hundreds of thousands of computers tried to connect to the site at the same time, and the service couldn’t handle it and crashed. So it has the pattern of a DDOS.

    He is of course wrong about it being a DDOS. This was not a coordinated attack, just the completely predictable traffic for such an event. And that this traffic crashed the servers is entirely X-Twitter’s fault.

  66. 66.

    Betty Cracker

    @lamh47: My mother-in-law went last year with friends, and they managed to get to all kinds of beautiful vistas, I assume without arduous hiking since they’re in their 80s!

  68. 68.

    M31

    ok it’s started, and people are saying Trump is rambling on about the shooting, Elmo is acting bored, and also that Trump is having trouble with his dentures or something it sounds like he has a mouthful of spit

    lol can’t wait to see the NYT write up

  73. 73.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @lamh47: But that’s all hiking is.  The areas are just nature.

    Seriously though, I love hiking but I can totally understand why many people don’t.

  74. 74.

    Eolirin

    @Anne Laurie: Yep! Absolutely.

    And other than India, we’re also multiple times the size of the next nearest democracy in terms of population. We’ve got way more regional groups than any of them (again except India). We’re big, we’re diverse, and we don’t have a parliamentary system that decouples choosing the head of the party from the election itself.

    And for all of that, yes, it could be much much worse.

  78. 78.

    TS

    WaPo have an “elections live update” post that gets added to all day.  The top  ELEVEN posts are about  X – the interview or the crash or trump or Musk

    The 12th post is about RFK jnr

    Then election fraud (not mentioning the party of the accused)

    Then a burglary at a trump campaign office (I didn’t know he had any)

    Then trump criticising the EU

    FBI investigating hack

    trump returns to X ahead of interview

    trump’s laundry list

    Senate republicans

    EU warns Musk

    White house takes trump hack very seriously

    pro trump pac

    Biden supports ending tip tax

    Question to press secretary about trump

    Taylor Swift

    Trump rally Pennsylvania

    JD Vance

    and then ….

    5 line paragraph on Gov Walz

    It would appear Kamala Harris is not part of the current election campaign as far as the Washington Post is concerned

  79. 79.

    lamh47

    Kamala HQ is on it…literally just got a fundraiser email with this:

    Right now, Elon Musk is interviewing Donald Trump live on Twitter (we’re not calling it “X”).

    It’s not enough that Musk has pledged to donate millions of dollars to help reelect Trump. He’s using his purchased platform — one of the largest social media sites in the world — to spread Trump’s unhinged and hateful agenda to millions of users.

    …

    Otherwise, let us remind you why this is a big deal.

    The richest person in the world is a lackey for Team MAGA.

    Musk already ruined Twitter by allowing hate speech and disinformation to flood the platform. Now, Musk is using his vast fortune and broad reach to try to control our democracy.

    Unlike Trump’s campaign, we are not beholden to billionaires like Elon. Or to Big Pharma. Or Big Oil. Or the NRA.

    The only way Team Harris-Walz can win this election is with grassroots donors like you by our side.

  83. 83.

    cain

    @Eolirin:

    It’s part of why those other democracies can pull off short time frames. But there’s other factors for why the US is always gonna be a bit slow too.

    Everything to do with the attitudes and rather low wisdom of the American voting public.

  84. 84.

    Eolirin

    @cain: Okay, so I meant slow as in time to run an election, but that also works for slow as in kinda dumb, and you know what, that’s fair. :p

  85. 85.

    M31

    @Starfish: listened to a few seconds of that, holy shit is it weird and bad

    Trump rambling on his usual “russia would never have invaded ukraine, we’d have zero inflation, and the “afghanistan mess” wouldn’t have happened”

    with Elon trying to talk but only saying uh uh uh while Trump is talking

    then Elon has a turn and he’s completely inarticulate and jumping around and making nonsensical points and “are they afraid of the US president, they saw you get shot, wow they would be afraid of someone like you that got shot, blah blah”

    wow 60 seconds and I’m much dumber now

    so kudos to those brave enough to dive in the poop cistern I don’t recommend it

    omg tried again, Trump: “I had a good relationship with Putin despite the whole Russia hoax”

    turned that shit off so fast

    lol both of them their brains are just goo all the way down

  86. 86.

    p.a.

    5 people hospitalized via a drinking game with shots taken every time “unfair”, “cheated”, “far-left” spoken during tRumpmusk interview.

  88. 88.

    cain

    @M31:

    It must have been really bad because they crashed the whole place.

    Twitter isn’t a great platform it seems for stuff like this.

  89. 89.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Eolirin: I also remember someone saying that instead of thinking of it as one election, in the US, it’s better to think of it as FIFTY elections.  I’m guessing our state-run process adds a ton of complexity that most other countries don’t have.

  90. 90.

    Jackie

    😂 McTurtle is concerned!:

    Mitch McConnell is scared a Kamala Harris presidency would spell disaster for the Republican party, prognosticating that a Democratic presidency would result in the demise of the filibuster and a liberal packing of the Supreme Court.

    “Let’s assume our worst nightmare – the Democrats went to the White House, the House, the Senate,” McConnell said during a speech to lawmakers in Louisville, Kentucky, Spectrum reports.“The first thing they’ll do is get rid of the [Senate] filibuster. Second, you’ll have two new states: D.C., Puerto Rico. That’s four new Democratic senators in perpetuity.”

    “If they get those two new states and pack the Supreme Court, they’ll get what they want,” McConnell continued. “By the way, on packing the Supreme Court … you may know this already. It’s unconstitutional.”

    https://www.rawstory.com/mitch-mcconnell-2668950920/

    If McTurtle is worrying, we’re in a good spot! 😂

  92. 92.

    PJ

    @dm: ​
     
    “Hmm, I wonder what Roger Stone’s password might be. This could be tricky. I’ll start with the obvious.”

    Types “NixonLover69”.

    “We’re in!”

  93. 93.

    Eolirin

    @M31: I’m liking that every time Trump shows up to do a thing now, it’s such a train wreck that even the media is reporting on it as being weird.

    I don’t think this is gonna get better. He’s clearly decompensating in some fashion. I’m sure the campaign is going to increasingly limit his appearances, and Vance isn’t able to pick up the slack. They also have no functional GOTV operation.

  94. 94.

    Starfish

    @Jackie: Perhaps he should not have stolen a Supreme Court seat and given it to some extremists who have no concern for precedent?

  95. 95.

    Eolirin

    @Jackie: The fuck is McConnell even going on about. The size of the court has changed multiple times already.

    And unfortunately, Puerto Rico is no guarantee of Democratic senators, though DC would be.

  100. 100.

    Ken

    @Jackie: Mitch McConnell is scared a Kamala Harris presidency would spell disaster for the Republican party

    Lindsey Graham said the same thing about a Trump presidency, so don’t anyone tell me that Republicans are always wrong.

  102. 102.

    wjca

    @lamh47: Another X staffer said there was a ’99 percent’ chance Elon was lying about an attack.”

    Pending a check to see if his lips were moving.

  103. 103.

    Jackie

    @Eolirin: I know. You know. Mitch knows. BUT McTurtle hopes his audience doesn’t know.

    I’m just excited that Mitch is “very concerned” about a Democratic landslide! 😁

  104. 104.

    lamh47

    @Kellen_Browning

    New: The Arizona Secretary of State’s office has confirmed that an abortion rights measure has qualified for the November ballot, with more than 577,000 signatures.
    https://x.com/Kellen_Browning/status/1823171650051047885

    Soooo…does this mean we are DEFINITELY winning Arizona? Hasn’t each time abortion has been on the ballot, Dems have won them since Dobbs overturned Roe?

  105. 105.

    Eolirin

    @lamh47: I think our odds of winning AZ were already pretty good, and this will help, but I also expect the ballot measure to get more votes than Harris does.

    We might win the measure in FL too, though that’s going to be harder with a 60% threshold. But Harris definitely isn’t going to get anywhere close to 60% there. Always, always, more people will vote for Democratic policies than will vote for Democratic politicians.

  106. 106.

    Maxim

    Someone on FB asked what Vance’s drag queen name would be.

    James Fell (the sweary history guy) suggested Sofa Loren and Courtney Loveseat.

  107. 107.

    Jackie

    @Eolirin: Florida has the added bonus of voting to legalize pot. It, too needs 60% to pass, but the two initiatives might GOTV more so than voting for TCFG – who isn’t nearly as popular 😂

  109. 109.

    JaySinWA

    KHQ? I saw that Flaherty tweet and wondered what the heck was going on with Spokane TV. In central WA it was one of the few OTA channels we could get via repeaters.

    Apparently it’s his personal short hand for Kamala HQ, so it may not end up with a reactionary mob at the TV station.

  111. 111.

    Captain C

    @M31:

    then Elon has a turn and he’s completely inarticulate and jumping around and making nonsensical points and “are they afraid of the US president, they saw you get shot, wow they would be afraid of someone like you that got shot, blah blah”

    Ketamine, maybe?

  112. 112.

    Dmbeaster

    @lamh47: Sunsets are easier on Maui, unless you are in Hana. The one exception is sunrise from atop Haleakala, which is not easy to arrange.  Also takes a permit I believe.  Most of the island that you visit is west facing.

    Paia fish house as an alternative, and also has a location in Kihei.

  113. 113.

    Bill Arnold

    @dm:
    Not a working gift link. Here’s an archive.ph link.
    The possible R. Stone involvement, along with the AOL email address used to transmit to Politico (and maybe others) is LOL intriguing to me. It suggests the possibility of a competent non-governmental activist actor with a [grudge]. (Such actors exist, not motivated by greed.or nationalism.) Attribution will be interesting, and probably difficult unless there was a serious OPSEC lapse. (Could be a normal government-run APT group.)
    FBI probing alleged Iran hack attempts targeting Trump, Biden camps – Since June, agents have been pursuing evidence Iran has targeted advisers to the two presidential campaigns. (Devlin Barrett, Josh Dawsey, Tyler Pager, Isaac Arnsdorf and Shane Harris, August 12, 2024)

    The phishing attempt appears to have succeeded in compromising the communications of at least one person not formally connected to either campaign, people familiar with the matter said: Roger Stone, the longtime Trump adviser.
    “I was informed by the authorities that a couple of my personal email accounts have been compromised,” Stone said in a brief interview. “I really don’t know more about it. And I’m cooperating. It’s all very strange.”
    …
    Stone was convicted of seven felonies, including lying about his attempts to get details of Hillary Clinton’s private emails from the anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks. Trump pardoned him in 2020, a month before leaving office.

  114. 114.

    NotMax

    @lamh47

    Road to Hana is so worth it. Book a tour if none of you want to drive. Dunno if Tiny’s Tours (may not be official name) is till around but if he is, recommended.

    Crater is awe inspiring any time of day. Sunrise, though, is magical. Again, narrow winding road so thin about shelling out for a tour. Don’t miss looking at the silversword plants on Haleakala, also too. There’s a phone number you can call the day before to get a pretty accurate read on what the weather will be like up top the next day. Oh, and it IS a national park, if you do drive, bring along any kind of national park pass you might have.

    If you don’t mind me asking, in which town or area will you be staying? Easier to talk about dining options if known.

    As for luaus, the granddaddy of them all, the Old Lahaina Luau, seems to be operating once more.

  115. 115.

    SectionH

    @lamh47: Ok, I’ll come back about going to Hana. First couple of times I was in Maui, I didn’t worry about it. It’s your vacation.

    restaurants: the General Store at Hali’imaile. I’ll find the link later. The only restaurant I used to rec that I’m pretty sure is still there. It’s just… not quite local but… kinda Aloha for everybody?

    Most of the other places I knew were gone in the fires.

    But in terms of Kihei, the Marriott down the road did a damn good Luau – my only. My actual rec is to read more current recs, be willing to drive a bit. One Luau’s enough IMO but one is well worth doing.

    Haleakala: I have no opinion about sunrise or sunset. Mid-morning is when I’ve always started, because I actually like looking around, and just occasionally seeing something Amazing – like a Nene, And mid-day, from around the top you can see the Big Island. That view always seems backwards to me because my internal compass is shit, but fine anyway.

    And then, the music. Back when I was there often, as soon as I got off the plane, I’d just head for a store in Kahului and see what was new. There’s so much amazing Hawaiian music. I didn’t exactly start with IZ, but damn Hapa, and Na Leo, and all the old guys. And Brudda IZ..

  116. 116.

    StringOnAStick

    @lamh47: The Paia Fish House in Kihei was better than the original in Paia in our experience 6 months ago.  We were staying in Kihei and I think we ate there 3 times because it was consistently so good.  Not the reservation hassle that Mama’s Fish House is either.

  117. 117.

    JustRuss

    @Baud: Yep.  You don’t have to like hiking to enjoy Haleakala.  The views are spectacular, and it’s a nice drive. Check out the little town of Makawao on the way up or down.  Kula Lodge is a good lunch or beverage stop.

  118. 118.

    Ramona

    @cain: Stupidity is pretty much equally distributed through all human populations. American voters don’t have a lock on it.

  120. 120.

    Searcher

    @Ken: DODS.  Denial of distributed service.  A bunch of people all over the country tried to use the service, and were denied, by crashing.

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