Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

The gop couldn’t organize an orgy in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

The lights are all blinking red.

Never forget that he train is barreling down on Trump, even as he dances on the tracks.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

It looks like winning debates is a black job!

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

The frogs are rarely mistaken.

People are weird.

Another missed opportunity for Jamie Dimon to just shut the fuck up.

Ah, the different things are different argument.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

Donald Jessica Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!

He imagines himself as The Big Bad, Who Is Universally Feared… instead of The Big Jagoff, Who Is Universally Mocked.

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

Be a traveling stable for those who can’t find room at the inn.

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Rally ‘Round Our Flag, All!

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Rally ‘Round Our Flag, All!

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We’re not winning everybody over, of course…
Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Rally 'Round Our Flag, All!

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289Comments

  2. 2.

    Baud

    We are a great nation because we are a good people

    I wish he wouldn’t exclude me like that.

  3. 3.

    Suzanne

    I’ve seen on Xhitter a fair amount of reporting that some women have been asking if their husbands have some way to find out how they vote. I worry about this with mail-in voting, if overbearing dickbag men are looking over the shoulders of their wives, daughters, etc.

  4. 4.

    Another Scott

    I’ve seen the Sean Astin thing in several places, but not clicked on it.  Who dat?  says I.

    Oh!  Samwise!!

    Oh!  Patty Duke’s son!!

    Good, good.

    Forward!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    U.S. Wind and Solar Are on Track to Overtake Coal This Year

    Two renewable resources, wind and solar, together have produced more power than coal through July—a first for the U.S.

  7. 7.

    FDRLincoln

    That PAC ad is effective. I like the past/future contrast, and I really like the fact that they mention she worked at McDonald’s.

    Former McDonald’s worker and former school teacher vs. corrupt real estate mogul and couch-fucking venture capitalist lackey.

  8. 8.

    Soprano2

    I love that first ad! Claire McCaskill is right, the choice between the two candidates is a stark one now – hope and optimism for the future, or gloom and doom and a return to the past.

  9. 9.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Suzanne: I’ve worried about that with mail voting for a while. It opens up other possibilities for abuse, too, like employers demanding to watch their employees vote. The expansion of the franchise mail voting offers probably outweighs these concerns but it’s a thing to watch out for.

  10. 10.

    dmsilev

    @Suzanne: One of the reasons that California is not entirely vote-by-mail is to give people concerned about such things an option where their privacy is guaranteed. Not a cure-all of course; a sufficiently overbearing or abusive spouse could very well insist on “overseeing” filling out the mail-in ballot anyway, but at least it’s something.

  11. 11.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    I don’t think the Right can get out of the box Harris/Walz put them in either. It’s like when someone says “are you mad?” and you’re offended so you have to act NOT MAD, which never works :)

    That clip of JD Vance angrily nsisting he’s “having fun” is the perfect example. There’s no way out of it.

  12. 12.

    Baud

    Would you like some fiber with your meth?

    Agents find more than 2,300 pounds of meth hidden in celery at Georgia farmers market

  14. 14.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: thought it was hilarious that the Harris campaign already quoted dril’s “don’t put in the papers that I got mad”.

  15. 15.

    Ken

    @Suzanne: Yes. The Olivia Troye quote, “I know people are scared about their family or neighbors judging them.”, could have put any of several other, much worse, words in that space.

  18. 18.

    Suzanne

    @Matt McIrvin: @dmsilev: I have shared my scary canvassing story from 2016 before….. we were getting close to the election and only canvassing registered Dems at that point. We had a house on our list with a young woman’s name on it, so we went there and knocked, and an older man answered the door. We asked for the woman, and he asked who we were, and as soon as we said we were from the local Dems, he freaked out….. started yelling anti-Semitic slurs and threatened to shoot us.

    I have always been concerned for that young woman. I worry that we blew her cover and endangered her safety.

  19. 19.

    catclub

    Scaramucci was on MeidasTouch, and thought “Harris will come out as not so tough on crypto as the Biden admin and get some backing in the ‘business’ community.”

    I am not seeing it, and don’t really want it. I welcome their hostility!

  21. 21.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    JD does this obviously fake laugh, insults the reporter, and then says he’s “having fun”. You can like SEE him in the box, struggling.

    I read that Trump attempted to laugh on the X campaign ad. But he laughed at people getting fired so, no, still not getting it. Humor. Joy. Not getting what that is.

    Ever since the Tea Party these people have been shrieking at the rest of us over something or other they’re upset about. We’re all sick of it.

  22. 22.

    catclub

    @Scout211: I’m not sure these Republicans have met Donald Trump. LOL

     

    They have!  And they know the best way to get Donald Trump to do something stupid is to tell him not to do it. Or that he cannot do that.

  26. 26.

    K-Mo

    @Soprano2: This x 100.

    At least since his inauguration Trump has been negging the nation.  The strategy of consistently putting out a joyful and optimistic vision of America is a winner.  I hope they keep it up and don’t waver.

  27. 27.

    Starfish

    @Matt McIrvin: I think there are electioneering laws against doing this.

    In Colorado, you can take up to ten ballots and drop them at the drop off box.  This is ballot harvesting, and it is allowed in some states. We organized to do this for people, and the people organizing it were very scrupulous about “If people have not filled their ballot yet, you cannot hang out while they are filling it out. Tell them you will be back to pick it up.”

  29. 29.

    Belafon

    @Suzanne: You must have gotten her name when she voted in a primary. It might be useful to have an option to not have your name disclosed when you vote in a primary for this reason.

  30. 30.

    sixthdoctor

    Received my postcards from Postcards for Swing States last night; 200 mostly destined for Iowa (chose the “where needed” option). Did four last night to try and get the feel; will try to do a few a day consistently. Mailing date is October 24th.

  31. 31.

    Mousebumples

    @Belafon: that isn’t disclosed in Wisconsin. We get all parties on the same primary ballot. Run into issues if a voter tries to vote for multiple party primary options, though.

    In good news, Wisconsin voted down the constitutional amendments yesterday.

    Also, Hovde will officially face Baldwin for the Senate seat.

  32. 32.

    Kay

    @TBone:

    I think it was you who linked to the editorial Walz’s former (Republican) student wrote about him. Wow. Quite the endorsement. That’s really something. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like that.

  33. 33.

    Baud

    @catclub:

    I am not seeing it, and don’t really want it. I welcome their hostility!

    Crypto is pouring mucho dinero into this election, and getting tough didnt help Biden, so….

  36. 36.

    zhena gogolia

    @sixthdoctor: I finished my 300 for NV yesterday and am going to put the stamps on tonight. (Putting the stamps on is more tedious than writing the postcards, actually!)

  38. 38.

    Another Scott

    @Scout211: Ship has sailed, hit reef, batteries on board electrocuted passengers that weren’t eaten by sharks, etc., etc.

    WSJ.com – RNC Growth and Opportunity Project (100 page .pdf) (from March 2013):

    The Republican Party must focus its efforts to earn new supporters and voters in the following demographic communities: Hispanic, Asian and Pacific Islanders, African Americans, Indian Americans, Native Americans, women, and youth. This priority needs to be a continual effort that affects every facet of our Party’s activities, including our messaging, strategy, outreach, and budget.
    Unless the RNC gets serious about tackling this problem, we will lose future elections; the data demonstrates this.

    In both 2008 and 2012, President Obama won a combined 80 percent of the votes of all minority voters, including not only African Americans but also Hispanics, Asians, and others. The minority groups that President Obama carried with 80 percent of the vote in 2012 are
    on track to become a majority of the nation’s population by 2050. Today these minority groups make up 37 percent of the population, and they cast a record 28 percent of the votes in the 2012 presidential election, according to the election exit polls, an increase of 2 percentage points from 2008. We have to work harder at engaging demographic partners and allies. One outside group that has been particularly successful at engaging its community and increasing its Republican support is the Republican Jewish Coalition. We should incorporate some of its tactics in our efforts.

    By 2050, the Hispanic share of the U.S. population could be as high as 29 percent, up from 17 percent now. The African American proportion of the population is  projected to rise slightly to 14.7 percent, while the Asian share is projected to increase to approximately 9 percent from its current 5.1 percent. Non-Hispanic whites, 63 percent of the current population, will decrease to half or slightly less than half of the population by 2050.

    In addition, the Republican Party lost youth and women voters in 2012. It is imperative that we reverse this troubling trend, as women represent the majority of voters and youth are future voters for decades to come.
    The pervasive mentality of writing off blocks of states or demographic votes for the Republican Party must be completely forgotten. The Republican Party must  compete on every playing field.

    They (the RWNJs who think “compromise” is worse than Ebola) “won” in 2016, so they will never, ever, consider that these recommendations were correct.  They’ll double-down on “conservatism cannot fail – it can only be failed” stuff.

    The only way forward for them is to throw out the RWNJs.  So far, they’ve had a lot of trouble doing that…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  41. 41.

    Josie

    Went to a local post carding party Saturday at a coffee shop here in Houston. Twelve people around two tables happily visiting and writing post cards. I have always voted but never interacted with other voters. It felt good. Came home with more post cards to write for Texas and a really positive vibe. I’m about halfway through my cards to Nevada. We can do this.

  42. 42.

    catclub

    @FDRLincoln: and I really like the fact that they mention she worked at McDonald’s.

     

    If she is 60 she worked in McDonald’s in 1980 or later, but they put in  a McDonalds that was from the 60’s.

    Are they trying to suggest she is older than she is?

  43. 43.

    BritinChicago

    @Suzanne: In my most optimistic mood I think that the polls may be distorted by people not giving their true opinions for just these sorts of reasons. In 2016 I think that effect favored TFG: people did not want to admit to the pollsters that they were planning to vote for him. But this time around maybe—I hope—there are people (mostly women) who don’t want other members of their household (yes, their husbands especially) knowing that they plan to vote for MVP. So it’s just possible that she will beat the polls significantly on election day. OK, that’s my most optimistic moods, but most of the time I still worry.

  44. 44.

    Kay

    @Starfish:

    My youngest is now registered in MI where he lives but for the last 3 years he was registered in Ohio at this address so we would get canvassers asking for him. I was more than happy to tell them how to contact him. “Oh, you should speak to him not me” He’s a sometimes-unbearable Lefty. I would think “good luck!”

  45. 45.

    prostratedragon

    Regarding documents the WAPO received from the hack of TFG campaign by Iran, which they did not publish:

    “In the end, it didn’t seem fresh or new enough,” says WaPo’s top editor.

    As opposed to the fresh and new insights that were gleaned from their publication of Podesta’s risotto recipe in 2016.

  46. 46.

    Jeffro

    for what it’s worth:

     

    New FLORIDA poll by FAU/Mainstreet Research (B+), 3-way race and 2-way race polled

    Donald Trump 47%

    Kamala Harris 45%

    RFK Jr. 5%

     

    Donald Trump 50%

    Kamala Harris 47%

  47. 47.

    Scout211

    More fun news this morning:

    Trump Campaign forced to pay North Carolina city $82k in advance for rally.

    . . .

    Trump is set to take the stage at Asheville’s Thomas Wolfe Auditorium on Wednesday after paying $82,247.60 to the city for a “last-minute” rally, according to Blue Ridge Public Radio (BPR). The campaign, struggling to effectively blunt the momentum of Vice President Kamala Harris, reportedly first contacted the city about the rally on August 8.

    City of Asheville spokesperson Kim Miller told BPR that $22,500 of the amount paid is a two-day rental fee for the auditorium, while “the remainder of the funds go to cover additional costs such as house support, production staff, production equipment rental, and exterior items like queue stanchions and port-a-loos.”

    While the campaign paid in advance due to Asheville’s policy for short-notice bookings, Trump has a long history of failing to pay cities for billed rally fees, leaving the White House in January 2021 with at least $850,000 in unpaid rally debt. Most of the bills are still unpaid, including more than $500,000 owed to the city of El Paso, Texas.

    The deadbeat campaign of Donald Trump is finally being charged in advanced. LOLOL

  50. 50.

    Kay

    @prostratedragon:

    To me it isn’t that they didn’t publish anymore – it’s the complete lack of reflection or real thought in that article with quotes from them. They just refuse to look at this. It’s amazing.

    For profit media is an industry. There is supposed to be some quality control, some attempt at evaluation. Just…none.

    I even clicked through to read the NYTimes story about the hack itself. Just no mention of their role in the 2016 hack. They’ve decided as a business to pretend it didn’t happen.

  51. 51.

    RevRick

    I just listened to a podcast discussion between Greg Sargent and John Della Volpe about some polling data he shared about the huge shift in the youth vote preferences away from Trump and towards Harris in the days following her elevation (and before her selection of Walz and the rallies). Della Volpe quoted Steve Jobs, who said, “Sometimes the consumer (voter) doesn’t know what they want until you show them.” And when they saw Harris, it clicked.

    Trump’s appeal to the youngest first-time voters was he felt like an antihero, but now, in the words of a young, black male voter in Georgia, Harris is a’driven’ (meaning strong) woman. Harris has taken away the image of strength from Trump, which drives him crazy. And because of this vibe shift, which increases trust, youth voters are more inclined to hear her message than they were with Joe. And her message is way more in sync with their values than Trump’s is.

  52. 52.

    narya

    @Baud: Relatedly, I am soooo tired of the framing that Rs want “relief from” regulations. What they really want is the ability to screw things up and pollute in service to their profits, without regard to the consequences to the rest of us.

  53. 53.

    Baud

    @RevRick:

    Trump’s appeal to the youngest first-time voters was he felt like an antihero

     

    Ugh. Glad Kam will save them from themselves.

  57. 57.

    Baud

    @narya:

    I’m excited that Biden is pushing to make customer service less of a hassle. Talk about getting relief from things.

  58. 58.

    Dave

    @Kay: Trump is literally incapable of processing humor as anything but dominance and putting losers in their place.

    Hope Vance just keeps up his forced uncomfortable laugh throughout the campaign.

    That guy screams out his need for validation with every waking moment and decided the best way to find it is a heady mix of toady and asshole.

  60. 60.

    RevRick

    @Baud: He noted that these kids were in Middle School or younger when he first appeared on the scene, so he was kind of like a comic book antihero to them.

  63. 63.

    Kay

    @Dave:

    I have no idea how most voters feel but I just don’t want to be part of their social/family problems anymore. I don’t want to be part of Vance’s father issues, or how he chose an ideology that maligns and insults his wife although he seems to love his wife (so he should figure out WTF with that), or Trump’s mean spirited horrible family of origin and grown children. I have my own dysfunctional family. They’re enough.

    They’re all horrible. Someone said to me that RFK jr. reminds them of a villain in a horror movie and that’s right. I can no longer look at him without seeing it. His weird contorted face and dead eyes – ugh.

  64. 64.

    Baud

    @RevRick:

    To be honest, I don’t care about excuses. My rhetoric against Trump does not permit me to give any adult dispensation to support that monster. If it means saving their souls,  I’m extremely grateful Kam took over

    ETA:  I’m assuming these pundits are accurately reflecting reality.

  65. 65.

    UncleEbeneezer

    I can’t believe this needs to be said but: The term “ZOG” is a vile white supremacist conspiracy theory that was promoted in the Turner Diaries and by the mass shooter who killed 11 Jews in Pittsburgh. If you’re using this language, you’re aligning with these Nazis.

  67. 67.

    Suzanne

    @Belafon: This was in Arizona, and party registration is public there (I think everywhere?), even if you don’t vote.

    I understand why that is the case, but this is a scary unintended consequence.

  69. 69.

    Dave

    @Kay: So much this and let me include Musk and the rest of our Billionaire Tech Brigade in this.

    My brother is close to there circles and while he hasn’t and is unlikely to go all the way down their ketamine fueled rabbit hole I can see how it’s impacted his thinking.

    A bad cult masquerading as rationality personified.

  70. 70.

    catclub

    CNN Headline:

    Trump’s continued attacks on Harris’ rise stir fears he could question election outcome if he loses in November

    This is just learned blindness by the media. We KNOW (and they know) that Trump _will_ challenge any losing vote in November. He will use this excuse as well as any other to challenge the election results. The only thing to do is be prepared for when it comes.

  71. 71.

    Ken

    @3Sice: Perhaps they couldn’t scrape up the cash for the larger venue.

    I am intrigued by this “last-minute” booking, since I haven’t heard of others, nor of cancellations. Does that mean the Trump campaign’s strategy was always to do almost nothing for a few weeks after the convention?

  72. 72.

    Butch

    Regarding the crypto roundtable, I thought I had read that it didn’t go well – “ugly” was one term used.

  74. 74.

    Geminid

    @3Sice: I saw the Thomas Wolfe Auditorium years ago. I was traveling by bus from Atlanta to Virginia, and I had a 3-hour layover so I walked around town. I remember the auditorium for its rustic/modern look; lots of stone, timber and glass as I recall.

    A classy place, classier than the Brick Breeden Fieldhouse Trump spoke at in Bozeman last weekend. This could help Trump manifest his Dr. Jekkyl side for a while before Mr.Hyde takes over.

  75. 75.

    rikyrah

    @Josie:

    Went to a local post carding party Saturday at a coffee shop here in Houston. Twelve people around two tables happily visiting and writing post cards.

    That sounds like fun :)

  76. 76.

    MomSense

    @catclub:
    He will challenge if he loses and I’m concerned we will have terrorist actions by his followers.  Safety precautions need to be part of our national, state and local Dem party planning.  

  78. 78.

    RevRick

    @Baud: This was based on actual polling data surveying youth voters. Joe was not connecting with them at all. It was like Trump was a magnet preventing a compass from pointing true North, and Kamala took away Trump’s magnet. I’m not going to scold the youngest voters for having impressions shaped by their youthful experience. I’m doing a happy dance that Kamala has broken the spell. And this was before the world’s nicest dad/fun uncle showed up on the scene and the subsequent rallies.

  79. 79.

    narya

    @Baud: YES! And even that crap–the customer service hassles–is to make you just give up, so they get another month of revenue out of you. Conversely, the last time I collected unemployment, I was impressed with every single person I dealt with; they were all very knowledgeable and helpful. Same with the federal agencies (SSA mostly) I’ve interacted with.

  80. 80.

    narya

    @catclub: MSNBC has been covering this in some detail. On the ground, it sounds like the best thing we can do is urge people to check their voter registration early and often.

  82. 82.

    dc

    @Suzanne: The vast majority of people have never canvassed and have no idea how walk lists are produced. As well, walk lists can be based on many characteristics. The jerk who answered the door would have no idea why you all asked for the person on your list. And she may well have moved (as people so often have, especially younger people) since the last time she voted.

  84. 84.

    Shalimar

    @Kay: Vance’s wife confuses me.  She is clearly the brains and high achiever in that family.  Why is he the one running for the #2 job in the whole country when he’s a very distant #2 in his own household?  It doesn’t make any sense

    edit: She strikes me as a smarter version of Nikki Haley.  She could have gone far in politics on her own merit rather than having positions bought for her like JD has.

  85. 85.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @catclub: Max Blumenthal used it in a Grayzone interview about Gaza and it went viral among FreePalestine accounts.  It’s also been used in some SJP materials.

    If you look at the tweet I linked to, the woman who wrote it got a lovely reward of a steaming pile of Anti-Semitic tropes and hate speech masquerading as FreePalestine advocacy.  I must’ve blocked 50 accounts.

  86. 86.

    SatanicPanic

    @RevRick:

    Trump’s appeal to the youngest first-time voters was he felt like an antihero

    it me, hi, I’m the problem it’s me

  88. 88.

    Starfish

    @dc: In Colorado our lists have Democrats as well as Democratic leaning independents because around a third of our voters are independents so I was on the phone with some dude who was like “How do you know I am not voting for Trump? Why shouldn’t I vote for Trump?” and “Come on. Please come off your contrarian edgelord bullshit” is not a thing that I said, but I really wanted to.

  91. 91.

    dc

    @Starfish: Where I live our data people produce lists according to whatever the goal of the canvass or phone bank is. If someone is an asshole, don’t waste your time. Thank you and hang up. Mark down hostile jerk in the menu options.

  96. 96.

    Soprano2

    @Scout211:  I’m not sure these Republicans have met Donald Trump.  LOL

    In a way it’s hilarious that after 9 years they still think they can control him. He is who he is, a whiny ass titty baby. He feels that anything that he doesn’t like is “unfair”.

  97. 97.

    K-Mo

    @Starfish: Yep this happens every time we go out.  Canvassing sheet says, talk to this 19yo D voter, and the house is festooned with Trump+Jesus signs.   I don’t usually ask for anyone at the door.  If it’s the RWNJ I just take a little abuse and leave the lit.

  98. 98.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    They’re all horrible. Someone said to me that RFK jr. reminds them of a villain in a horror movie and that’s right. I can no longer look at him without seeing it. His weird contorted face and dead eyes – ugh.

    Without his name and money, RFK Jr would have wound up on a program on the ID channel.

  100. 100.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Ever since the Tea Party these people have been shrieking at the rest of us over something or other they’re upset about. We’re all sick of it.

    It’s got to be affecting their health, too. I was anxious for over a day about my husband taking Cipro, and it made me feel terrible. How can someone exist like that all the time? I’ve had 4 anxiety attacks since the beginning of the year, and I talked to my doctor about taking something to help me with that. I don’t know how these people can stand to feel angry almost all of the time.

    I also think people are tired of being scolded about how they live their lives. I don’t care if they want to live according to the tenets of their faith (even though most of them really don’t), but please quit trying to make me live my life like that too.

  102. 102.

    Dave

    @Soprano2: His real power is that somehow he convinces people they can get something from him and come out winners. Take behaving he can do it for a very short while and then suck people in before going completely off the rails but somehow the hundredth or thousandth time he does this new and often the same suckers still convince themselves that this time it’ll stick.

    It’s almost fascinating in the most banal way imaginable.

  104. 104.

    Jackie

    @Kay:

    I read that Trump attempted to laugh on the X campaign ad. But he laughed at people getting fired

    It was played on TV. It was more an evil cackle than a laugh. It was an eerily weird sound.

  107. 107.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Kids remember their good teachers. My music teacher in high school had a big effect on a lot of us. Several years ago we all friended her on FB and then organized an event for her to thank her, I think it was her birthday. One of my Jazzercise teachers was a HS math teacher who taught high level math. All of her students loved her; I ran into one of them at Soma of all places when I mentioned I did Jazzercise. She was raving about how great my instructor was as a teacher. Unfortunately, she left teaching at the high school this year to become an adjunct professor at the local state university. She said she loved her students but the massive amount of paperwork and other crap finally ran her off, plus all the uncompensated work she was expected to do.

  109. 109.

    SatanicPanic

    @rikyrah: good stuff

    But there’s nothing cheap or vibesy or anything less than robust about the campaign Harris is now running. She’s putting out a vision and creating a choice and the public is responding to it. It’s working. Why on earth would she shift gears or respond to anyone trying to break her stride?

  113. 113.

    narya

    @Soprano2: I found the 10 percent happier app to be somewhat helpful in ratcheting things down a little, especially for sleeping; I subscribe, so I can give away a free month if that’s something you’d like to try (and I get a new code every month, in case anyone else would like to try it). I’m not much for meditation, but I have found some of the podcasts and approaches to be useful in stopping the spinning brain.

  115. 115.

    Soprano2

    @Dave: The difference between being comfortable in your own skin and uncomfortable will be stark if Vance and Walz debate. People can sense a phony, even if they aren’t quite sure what the problem is. Vance screams “phony”, while Walz projects “genuine”.

  122. 122.

    Soprano2

    @Ken: I think it’s more that it’s better for him to have the visual of a smaller crowded venue rather than a bigger one that’s only half full. Plus, it’s probably all they wanted to pay when they found out they had to pay in advance.

  123. 123.

    BR

    I want to find out who the subscribers to the NYT are and understand why they keep paying for something less informative than reading DougJ’s posts:

    Harris is Set to Lay Out an Economic Message Light on Detail

    Yes, this is about a policy / message that *she hasn’t even made public or delivered yet*. Meanwhile they parse Trump’s incoherent ramblings into Deep and Wise Thoughts.

  127. 127.

    Mousebumples

    @BR: or maybe they’re busy filming another season of Murders? (another reason he may not be interested in being on SNL)

  130. 130.

    Baud

    @BR:

    I have NYT headlines on my RSS feed. Seeing them grouped like that really reveals how much propaganda they are putting out there through their headlines.

  131. 131.

    TBone

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: 🤣

    I just made the mistake of checking up on my rumpy neighbors’ son who is a “press secretary” for a Rep from Georgia. Google allowed me to see quite a bit of his xitter feed.  One video he made features a a Klepper-like exasperated young female holding a big “Trump is a traitor!” sign through the entire video and visibly itching to punch the young Hitler Youth who is home on break right now.

    The reason Jordan Klepper gets away with what he does is because these people are stone cold stupid morons.  Most of the time, they don’t even know when they’re being ridiculed.

  133. 133.

    p.a.

    Some election-related things, some general interest.  From mapsontheweb tumblr  Hope links work

     

    https://www.tumblr.com/mapsontheweb/758766328404492288/map-of-cities-owed-money-by-the-trump-campaign

     

    https://www.tumblr.com/mapsontheweb/758781914301841408/us-counties-by-decade-in-which-their-population

    https://www.tumblr.com/mapsontheweb/758723220827521024/the-united-states-2000-election-but-with

    https://www.tumblr.com/mapsontheweb/758775246614626304/leading-cause-of-death-by-country-2021

  134. 134.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @rikyrah: I’m old enough to remember people mocking Hillary’s campaign because of her focus on nerdy, white paper, policy details.  In 2020 every Dem candidate under the sun came up with an exhaustive list of policy proposals (I know because I created a spreadsheet of them and it was insane!) but at the end of the day it came down to Bernie, riding on popularity from 2016 and Biden, who was popular as VP and viewed as someone who could beat Trump.  People turned out to vote for Biden mainly to stop Trump.  Not because of his platform of umpteen policies.  He turned out much better (more effective and more progressive) than most imagined.  But he didn’t win on white paper policy details.  Very few voters actually care about them outside of places like BJ.

  138. 138.

    Baud

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    I agree. Policy has become a means of producing vibes.

    Which is fine.  The most important policies require Congress anyway.  It’s time people took Congress more seriously.

  139. 139.

    BR

    @Baud: ​

    What is problematic is that *the rest of the media* treats NYT like they’re normal. They even pretend that Maggie Haberman is the best reporter on Trump and pretend that she holds his feet to the fire. Kaitlan Collins was on Colbert yesterday saying that with a straight face.

  141. 141.

    BritinChicago

    @UncleEbeneezer: I had to google “ZOG”. Vile yes, to the max, but I’d have thought “anti-semitic” (and, of course, anti-American) was more accurate than the more general term “white supremacist”. Also a bit crazy—in fact I’d go as far a “weird”.

  143. 143.

    Barbara

    @Scout211: These people are fucking nuts:

    “The winning formula for President Trump is very plain to see,” Conway told Kudlow. “It’s fewer insults, more insights, and that policy contrast.”Kudlow added: “I think personal insults of her, not a good idea. Really not a good idea. It’s a distraction. It’s unnecessary. It’s off message.”

    It’s like they actually have never met the people who make up Trump’s base.  The insults, and more specifically, being given the permission to hurl insults at the kind of people you hate is the only message.​

  146. 146.

    Ken

    @BritinChicago:  I’d have thought “anti-semitic” was more accurate than the more general term “white supremacist”.

    How does the meme go — In the modern Republican party, that Venn diagram is a circle.

  154. 154.

    catclub

    @BritinChicago: but I’d have thought “anti-semitic” (and, of course, anti-American) was more accurate than the more general term “white supremacist”.

     

    All the nazis and all the white supremacists happen to have no problem with being the people who call the US government ZOG. The KKK was fine with going by the protocols back in the day.  All of a piece.

  157. 157.

    stinger

    Attended part of a Musical Seniors for Harris zoom last night. I will look for the part I missed on YouTube.

  158. 158.

    Shalimar

    @NotMax: For some reason I had gotten the impression a decade ago that Jon Cryer was rightwing too, but he has made it very clear this year that he isn’t either.  It’s hard to keep up with everyone.

  159. 159.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    I’m interested in the “FedEx” part. They’re the Right wing parcel company. I have no idea but I wonder if USPS and UPS are allowing that. I know for USPS that would be the postal inspector’s area of operations.

  160. 160.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: Did Obama win NC in 2008

    People railing who called Biden Genocide Joe have seemlessly moved on and are calling KH Killer Kamala and Holocaust Harris.  Which we were assured by expert politics knowers on BJ would never happen

    The self anointed pro Palestinian activists are making videos  on Tiktok and Instagram, calling black people who are excited to vote for KH, colonizers. yes really.

  161. 161.

    Geminid

    @Barbara: Kudlow is being aspirational here. He’s expressing the hopes of a numerically smaller component of the Republican base, the Wall Street Journal and Chamber of Commerce crowd. Won’t do much good though.

  162. 162.

    topclimber

    @rikyrah: I love that the media commentary suggests KH is afraid to sit for interviews. Perhaps she should worry how the village will distort her words, but the interview itself?

    To quote Brer Rabbit: “Oh, please, do anything horrible you want to me Brer Wolf.  Just don’t throw me in that briar patch.”

    I expect she will do a series of interviews after the convention,  slated to appear right around Labor Day, when more of the normies check in. And she will do it on her terms.

  163. 163.

    TBone

    @BR: he has ties to Indiana through his wife.

    Also

    Astin appeared in the July 29 White Dudes for Harris Zoom call that organizers said raised more than $4 million for the Harris presidential campaign.

  164. 164.

    Dave

    @BR: Conway is nothing if not a particularly rabid version of the consultant class.  What she knows or doesn’t know I have no idea but she always has to be hustling.

    The only thing I will enjoy if Trump does manage to pull a win is watching these empty people be destroyed by their own monkey paw wish.

    She should know better she looked like hell when she worked in his administration but the one thing we really train into all these people across the board from the most anodyne consultant to the full rabid Conway is that they must never ever question their priors or even wonder if this is good for them.

    It’s why George having enough awareness to at least distance himself from it all (not giving credit for any ethical awakening) was almost shocking because they swim in a sea that is designed to prevent that sort of awareness.

  167. 167.

    Soprano2

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: He’s a tall white guy, that’s how he can do that. I think a lot of them still don’t know who he is and probably think he’s one of them. Plus his approach is not to challenge them too much, it’s just to ask questions and then let them talk.

  169. 169.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    A reply to this post specifically said that this isn’t allowed with the USPS, because of how they are Constitutionally set up.

    But, UPS and Fedex are private companies.

  170. 170.

    Kay

    @Dave:

    She’s also making a lot of money off of a flukey win that she never had to repeat. She probably knows that, that she’s only making the big bucks off a one a hundred shot.

  171. 171.

    Dave

    @HumboldtBlue: Not that I’m going to rely on it but this might be the campaign that he actually underperforms. Depends on a lot of factors I’m nowhere near wise or learned enough to judge and we’ll have a better sense by October but something is different.

    Absolutely not going to rely on it but I don’t think he is going to overperform this time.

  172. 172.

    rikyrah

    @schrodingers_cat:

    The self anointed pro Palestinian activists are making videos  on Tiktok and Instagram, calling black people who are excited to vote for KH, colonizers. yes really

     

    I have been heartened by the number of Black TikTok creators who have been smacking back against this. Telling them to go F themselves.

  173. 173.

    West of the Rockies

    I LOVE these good news, optimistic threads!  Thank you, AL (and TaMara and WG).

  176. 176.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    Thanks! I wondered. Postal inspectors are a federal police force with an enormous amount of power. I figured they wouldn’t let some podunk county prosecutor in Indiana use the mail as a money pot.

  177. 177.

    Soprano2

    @Geminid: As I said before, I think it’s hilarious that after 9 years of this they still think they can control TCFG, or that he and his base care about policy positions. Other than “deport illegals” and “build the wall” and “make everything cheaper again”, they don’t care about policy at all.

  179. 179.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @BritinChicago: Anti-Semitism has always been a big component of White Supremacy, so there’s a lot of overlap between the usage of the two terms.  In the US, Restrictive Covenants that aimed to keep neighborhoods predominantly-white, often specifically included Jews in addition to Black People as groups who weren’t allowed to live in certain areas.  Jews have also been routinely mentioned as threats to the “white race.”  But in this case it refers to the fact that “Zog” is a conspiracy theory term that has wide usage among people who openly identify as White Supremacists.

  180. 180.

    TBone

    @dc: I will never give up my landline!  We only pay for one cell phone and the landline has an answering machine.  We give the landline number to all important business, utility, credit card, etc. contacts.

    The cell phone is only for family and friends!

  181. 181.

    schrodingers_cat

    @rikyrah: As someone who was born in country that was actually colonized and got its independence 77 years ago today, I say that they are full of it. They have weaponized the leftie-liberal language to drive a hateful antisemitic and a right wing agenda.

    They are doing the actual people in Gaza no favors by their nihilistic campaign against Democrats

    I for one am not surprised that the people who went after Jewish people are also going after black people.

  182. 182.

    Soprano2

    @rikyrah: I guess there’s also the issue of sending cash in this way, because a lot of people do that because they’re trying to evade taxes or committing some other crime. It’s really not safe to send cash like this regardless of what you’re doing with it. But seizing it through civil forfeiture regardless of whether there’s actually been a crime committed is something else; that’s wrong.

  183. 183.

    rikyrah

     

    With EVERYBODY Sayin’ – C! J! Writes! YEAH!
    @CJWritesNThangs
    Magic Johnson turns 65 today.

    For those of us who remember the announcement, that is an amazing factoid.
    6:42 AM · Aug 14, 2024
    https://x.com/CJWritesNThangs/status/1823686736179802392

     

    ……………………

     

    I don’t think the youth of today understand what a cultural milestone moment it was when Magic announced it. I know that everyone in my house cried, because we literally thought it was a death sentence.
    If you had told me that Magic would still be here. Was going to see his children grow up and become a grandfather, I simply wouldn’t have believed you. And anyone who told you otherwise is lying to you.

  184. 184.

    K-Mo

    @NotMax: I think Bradley Whitford could pull it off .  For Vance I think a sufficiently made up Colin Jost would be uncannily hysterical.

  185. 185.

    Geminid

    @TBone: I always liked John Astin as Gomez.

    I had a flashback to the the Addams Family the other day. My landscape customer has a very large brick house with extensive foundation plantings all around it. Between the wiregrass growing into the mulch beds, pokeweed shooting up though the boxwoods and grapevines running up the hollies I get behind this time of year. So I was looking through one section and thought, WTF is that! when I saw an unusual shrub. There was a 4 foot tall yew entirely covered in potato vine that looked like Cousin It.

  187. 187.

    Paul in KY

    @Another Scott: If the GOP threw out the RWNJs, the party they made after being ejected (may I suggest NSDAP or something like that for their acronym) would be biggerer than the remaining GOP.

  188. 188.

    West of the Rockies

    @Kay:

    Vance was offered a softball on a platter, and the outfield fences were pulled in a hundred feet.  “What makes you smile; what makes you happy?”

    He could have said, “My wife, my beautiful kids, camping, a good burger…”

    But, no, he has to piss himself and do a jig in cleats on his own dick.

  190. 190.

    Soprano2

    @rikyrah: I remember how shocking it was that he had AIDS, that was when people still talked about it in whispers much of the time because the stigma was so great.

  191. 191.

    BR

    One thing that is notable in the new Cook report polling — Latino voters haven’t moved much at all — were Trump +3 when Biden was in the race and now Trump +1 with Harris. I don’t know how such a big shift has happened in the last 4 years, but maybe it has?

  193. 193.

    Scout211

    @Soprano2: As I said before, I think it’s hilarious that after 9 years of this they still think they can control TCFG, or that he and his base care about policy positions

    My take on Republicans like KellyAnne, Nikki Haley and others scolding Trump and his campaign for continuing to go so negative is not that they think they can control Trump, it’s that they are hedging their bets for future elected office or consultant jobs.  If Trump loses, they look so very smart.  If Trump wins, they are no worse off than they are now.  So it’s win or draw for them.  They can’t lose.

  194. 194.

    Kay

    @West of the Rockies:

    That’s partly why I hope we don’t get into a pissing match with media. He sounds churlish and petty when he insults the reporter. As you said, that was a softball. No reason he couldn’t have smiled and given a not-weird answer. Except, well, you know.

  195. 195.

    Scout211

    @Paul in KY: Google says:

    George Timothy Clooney (born May 6, 1961) is an American actor, director and activist. He graduated with the class of 1979 from Augusta High School in Augusta, Kentucky. In high school, he was part of the Beta Club, Drama Club, and held the position of Science Club Officer.

  197. 197.

    tam1MI

    @zhena gogolia: You’re right, Martin seems to have disappeared.

    He works in Education and it is the beginning of the school year in many places. He may be busy right now.

  200. 200.

    Kay

    @BR:

    IMO, the Latino shift is undeniable at this point. It’s every poll and we had a kind of canary in the coal mine with Florida in 2020. There are realignments. Maybe this is one of them. Interesting though, that she’s still so strong even with that bleed.

  201. 201.

    KatKapCC

    @BR: Love to see this. My partner and I are both disabled, in different ways, and it can be kind of infuriating that in 2024 there are still places and events that aren’t fully accessible.

  204. 204.

    Suzanne

    @rikyrah: There’s a lot of people — myself included — who have broad sympathy for Palestinian liberation, and also believe that Israel was grievously wronged on 10/7 but are horrified by how Israel is prosecuting this war. (The story this week about the father who lost his four-day-old twins in Gaza while he left to go register their births…. absolutely wrecked me.)

    But the pro-Palestine people who are criticizing Black Americans who will be voting for Harris are being terrible. Fortunately, I don’t think they have much influence outside of their own little weird bubble. Huffing their own farts, I think.

  206. 206.

    tam1MI

    @schrodingers_cat:

    People railing who called Biden Genocide Joe have seemlessly moved on and are calling KH Killer Kamala and Holocaust Harris.  Which we were assured by expert politics knowers on BJ would never happen

    The self anointed pro Palestinian activists are making videos  on Tiktok and Instagram, calling black people who are excited to vote for KH, colonizers. yes really.

    This is my complete lack of surprise.

  207. 207.

    BR

    @Kay: ​

    Yeah. Though Latino voters are also not monolithic and have many different backgrounds. Here in CA it seems Latino voters are still mostly Dem, and almost all Latino elected officials are Dems. But maybe the shift in other states has been more dramatic either because of those states’ cultures or the different history of the Latino groups in those states.

  209. 209.

    Geminid

    @Kay: My U.S. Representative, Abigail Spanberger was a Postal Inspector for a couple years before she joined the CIA. She may have been waiting for her CIA security clearance to go through.

    Spanberger was probably good at it too. Despite the big smile, Spanberger strikes me as a very ruthless person.

  210. 210.

    Kay

    @Suzanne:

    The (US and overseas) reporters read out the latest news to the State Department spokespeople at the briefings. News their colleagues in Gaza have collected at great personal risk – more than 100 have died covering it. They included the dispatch about the twins yesterday. The State Department says nothing of substance about any of it, ever, but it’s oddly moving that the reporters do it day after day. Bearing witness. Watch it if you get a chance.

  211. 211.

    MCA1

    @RevRick: My pet theory on how there are some younger voters (and too young to be voters) who are more receptive to the GOP right now than we’d expect, given how effortlessly diversified and inclusive their world is compared to what we grew up in:  they’ve never known a political landscape that did not include Donald Trump.  They weren’t there (or they were just children) in 2015 and 2016 when half of America was screaming “THIS IS NOT NORMAL AND SHOULD NOT BE ACCEPTABLE.”  They’ve never witnessed a responsible grownup Republican running for president, and they’ve never seen a campaign that didn’t look like a WWE storyline.  This IS normal to them.  They don’t feel the transgressiveness the way we do, so it’s possible for them to mentally equate Biden’s age and having lost 10 mph off his fastball to Trump being a wackadoo.

    The good news is, as you’ve said, somehow just removing Biden from the picture seems to have dropped the scales from a lot of their eyes.  The bad news is that it means there’s longer term harm and damage to the system that’s been inflicted by Trumpism.  It’s gonna take decades to rebuild what his malignant presence has corroded.

  213. 213.

    tam1MI

    @schrodingers_cat: They are doing the actual people in Gaza no favors by their nihilistic campaign against Democrats

    So far, all they seem to be accomplishing is lessening the number of pro- Palestinian voices in Congress.

  217. 217.

    BR

    @Suzanne:

    They’re also really stepping in it with their recent adoption of openly white supremacist terminology.

    I don’t understand why it’s so hard to oppose the right wing governments of both Israel and Gaza while saying the ordinary folks deserve to live their lives in peace.

  218. 218.

    rikyrah

    This sounds great. Old fashioned retail politicking :)

     

    Nidia

    @NidiaCavazosTV

    NEW: VP Harris and Gov. Walz will take on a bus tour through Pennsylvania on Sunday, ahead of the Democratic National Convention, according to campaign officials. •The tour will begin in Pittsburgh •Several stops will be made including retail stops to meet with voters •SG Doug Emhoff and Minnesota First Lady Gwen Walz will also be on the bus tour
    https://x.com/NidiaCavazosTV/status/1823691774218453339

  219. 219.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Isn’t it mostly Latino men, though? I would expect that, the idea of machismo is strong in that culture, and I think for many men it’s finally overcoming the other negatives Republicans have for people who aren’t white. Plus these people might be defining themselves as white now.

  220. 220.

    Baud

    Long term, the parties should be more racially balanced. That’s healthy for this country. I just hope we aren’t on the short end too often during the realignment process.

    Same with the gender gap.

  221. 221.

    Old School

    @NotMax:

    Isn’t Astin an unrepentant RWNJ?

    According to Wikipedia:

    From 1995 to 2005, Astin served as a Civilian Aide to the Secretary of the Army (CASA) and afterwards served on the President’s Council on Service and Civic Participation for two years during the George W. Bush administration.[40][41]

    Astin is a lifelong supporter of the Democratic Party.[citation needed] During the 2004 United States presidential election, Astin backed Senator John Kerry and participated in Kerry’s campaign rally in Portland, Oregon, as the opening speaker.[42] In the 2008 presidential election, Astin lent his support to then-Senator Hillary Clinton for the first of her two Presidential campaigns and made multiple campaign appearances on her behalf, including joining Clinton’s daughter Chelsea at some stops.[43] Astin served as the campaign manager for Democrat Dan Adler, a businessman friend in the entertainment industry, in California’s 36th congressional district special election of 2011.[41] In the 2016 presidential election, Astin campaigned for Hillary Clinton in midwestern states such as Iowa, Nebraska and Wisconsin.[44] In a 2020 Twitter post, Astin voiced his support for Democratic nominee Joe Biden.[45] On July 29, 2024, Astin appeared in the White Dudes for Harris Zoom call expressing his support for Vice-President Kamala Harris’ presidential campaign.

  222. 222.

    Soprano2

    @tam1MI: What’s interesting to me is that Ilhan Omar won her primary, and from the reporting I heard on Morning Edition it didn’t sound like AIPAC had run a campaign against her. That seems pretty strange to me, wonder what’s up with that. Maybe they like having her there as a “whipping girl” for their press releases.

  224. 224.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Kay: Are you the front page that frequents Manistee, MI? I’m there right now. Heading to First Street Beach right after lunch. Been kinda sorta exploring houses I might retire too when the time comes. Do you have any restaurant recs here? Looking for somewhere I can get local walleye or fried perch. Also some smoked whitefish for snacking if there a fish market in town.

    Stopped by the local Democratic Party office yesterday to cheer them on.

  226. 226.

    yellowdog

    @MomSense: I’m more worried about the election being handed over to the House or SCOTUS than overweight guerilla fighters causing havoc.

  227. 227.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Paul in KY: Not in the least. But we Democrats have been hectored by these activists and now they are openly rooting for our destruction. And some on the left (mostly the white  bro left) have been eating their antisemitic and now anti-American rhetoric with a spoon.

  228. 228.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    I just don’t know. We have quite a few Latino clients, they’re predominently Mexican Americans where I live, but they’re 2nd and 3rd generation and I don’t get any sense that they would vote “as Latinos”. They seem to run the same gamut of views as any other Americans.

    .

  229. 229.

    Suzanne

    @BR:

    I don’t understand why it’s so hard to oppose the right wing governments of both Israel and Gaza while saying the ordinary folks deserve to live their lives in peace.

    I don’t get it, either.

    I also don’t fully understand why those who are broadly “pro-Palestine but anti-Hamas and also believe that Jewish people should be able to safely and prosperously live in the Levant if they so choose” are repeatedly called on to condemn the pro-Hamas freaks. The inverse — people who probably broadly share my views — are not ever called upon to condemn Netanyahu and settlement before they are allowed into polite conversation. Your position is the correct one.

  233. 233.

    Kay

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    I’m actually closer to Ludington so I don’t have Manistee reviews. There’s a great fish place in Ludington – just take out- but I love walleye too and theirs is great. Bortells Fisheries. They’re actually from NW Ohio. They were farmers, not fishermen, when they came over from Germany but they lost their land to a corrupt local government in 1890 or something (this is a true story which involves a fire at a courthouse where deeds were held- I was familiar with it before they told me) and so became fisherman in Michigan several generations ago. Just wild.

    Cash only.

  234. 234.

    Lyrebird

    @Suzanne: are not ever called upon to condemn Netanyahu and settlement before they are allowed into polite conversation.

    uh, my experience of sharing those views and being Jewish is that I must condemn those groups again and again and again to be allowed into any conversations about I/P.
    When the demand is placed by people (I am not saying *you* here at all) who didn’t listen to any of my condemnation of previous Likud leaders or of BN, who said and say nothing about Bush’s back and forth misleading Gazans, who said nothing when I suggested Israel pay reparations to Lebanon…  it’s hard to take it as genuine concern for the civilians suffering in Gaza or Lebanon.​

  235. 235.

    Paul in KY

    @schrodingers_cat: I just laugh at them. To think that any GQP government would ever help in the tiniest bit an independent Palestine being created in just ludicrous thinking (as you know).

    Just ‘Splitter’ nonsense, IMO.

  236. 236.

    Paul in KY

    @Suzanne: People should be called on to disavow Netanyahoo and the settlement building, IMO.

    Helps you to figure out if they would be OK with putting the kibosh on the settler fanatics and their illegal encampments to get a comprehensive peace/Palestinian state.

  238. 238.

    tam1MI

    @Soprano2: What’s interesting to me is that Ilhan Omar won her primary, and from the reporting I heard on Morning Edition it didn’t sound like AIPAC had run a campaign against her. That seems pretty strange to me, wonder what’s up with that. Maybe they like having her there as a “whipping girl” for their press releases.

    There was a rumor running around my state that they were offering $20 million to anyone who would primary Rashida Tlaib and got turned down. I think their strategy is to go after candidates who are already weakened by other things than deliver the finishing blow, so to speak.

    I read somewhere that, although Omar won fairly comfortably, her margin of victory was lower that it had been in other elections, so the Gaza issue may have hurt her a bit.

  239. 239.

    tam1MI

    @Paul in KY: Those wanting an independent Palestine have been stepping on their dicks for more than 50 years.

    The old saying, “They never blow an opportunity to blow an opportunity” was coined for a reason.

  240. 240.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Lyrebird: I am sorry that you have to go through this. And that left spaces have been infected with antisemitism since Oct 7. It is both sad and infuriating. After 9/11 the two demographics that showed solidarity to Arab Americans were Jewish and Black groups.

    Because we know that it may start with Jewish people but the othering never stops with them.

  241. 241.

    KatKapCC

    @Suzanne:

    are not ever called upon to condemn Netanyahu and settlement before they are allowed into polite conversation

    Um. If we don’t shout it through a bullhorn ten times a day, we’re assumed to be and accused of being Bibi’s #1 fan and of thinking the settlements are the greatest thing humans have ever done. Even if we DO scream it from the mountaintops, we’re still accused of those things because the idea of ever believing anything we say is a bridge too far for many people.

  246. 246.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I suppose it could be as simple as that. People my age tend to think of Latin people as recent immigrants, especially when you live in a place like I do where most of the population is still white. I guess in many places there are 2nd and 3rd generation Latinos who are completely different from their parents and grandparents.

  247. 247.

    Manyakitty

    @Ken: I suspect he also knows what goes into that kind of role and doesn’t want to make that level of commitment.

  248. 248.

    gvg

    @Baud: No one mentioned medical insurance that I saw. I knew someone who worked for a hospital. He indicated it was insurance company policy to deny claims at least twice before paying because a lot of people AND businesses gave up and didn’t pursue. This meant that the hospitals had to pay staff time to resubmit claims all the time. In a big hospital, that really is a lot of time wasted.

    When his dad died, he went through the paperwork and got about 10,000 more back that his parents had given up on because he knew what to not give up on.

  249. 249.

    Citizen Alan

    @UncleEbeneezer: Never heard of it. Or at least in that context. I think I’ve mockingly referred “Space Aliens from Planet Zog” as a riff from Calvin & Hobbes. I guess that’s just another thing that the CHUDs have ruined.

  250. 250.

    Citizen Alan

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I can’t watch Jordan Klepper videos. Those creatures he interviews instill sheer loathing in me. Also, I am kind of amazed he has not been identified as “that guy on Youtube who makes fun of us Real True Patriots” and been beaten up or worse.

  251. 251.

    wjca

    @Paul in KY:  I just saw an article that said George Clooney, 63…

    He’s class of 77, same as I, and has to be at least 64.

    Maybe he skipped a grade (or two).

  252. 252.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Kay: Bortells came up in my search…maybe there’s not any fish market in Manistee although most of the Lakeshore towns have them. I grew up in Grand Rapids so have been vacationing in these lakeshore towns all my life. Day trips to Muskegon, Grand Haven, Whitehall, Holland and Saugatuck are easy from GR, and I know Ludington pretty well, then the towns North of here from Frankfort up to Mackinac City and Cheboygan but this is my first time exploring Manistee.

  253. 253.

    Suzanne

    @Kay:

    I just don’t know. We have quite a few Latino clients, they’re predominently Mexican Americans where I live, but they’re 2nd and 3rd generation and I don’t get any sense that they would vote “as Latinos”. They seem to run the same gamut of views as any other Americans. 

    Agree.
    And a lot of them are Catholic and share the same cultural conservatism of white people. That’s to be expected, that’s the same pattern of basically every other immigrant group.

  256. 256.

    Geminid

    @Soprano2: I saw a couple interesting findings regarding Hispanic political participation, in Wikipedia’s article on the 2020 Presidential election. Hispanic vote share that year was 13%, up from 10% in 2012– a 30% increase in 8 years.

    And female Hispanics accounted for 8 of those 13 percentage points while Hispanic men accounted for only 5.

    Looking back 48 years to the 1976 Carter/Ford election, Hispanic voters constituted only 2% of of the electorate then (source: Wikipedia).

  258. 258.

    wjca

    @Soprano2: I guess in many places there are 2nd and 3rd generation Latinos who are completely different from their parents and grandparents.

    And then there’s the Southwest, where Latino families go back centuries.  I suppose those poll results depend on what part of the country they get their Latino voters from.

  259. 259.

    StringOnAStick

    @Dave: I have a similar suspicion.  My RW dad hates tRump with a passion, but voted for him in the previous two elections, and was celebrating the conviction of his country clerk (Tina Peters, 4 felony convictions earlier this week) for giving access to secure voting systems that ended up in the hands of Mike Lindel.  He plans to write in Nikki Haley.  A friend’s previously staunch R parents are planning on the same.  I’m not sure which thing pushed them over the edge, but I think the classified docs issue did it for my dad

  260. 260.

    Suzanne

    @Lyrebird: @KatKapCC:

    Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective. It doesn’t match mine, but that’s the entire point of coming to a place like this.

    I wish that the basic assumption of good faith was extended on all sides of an issue until proven otherwise. No one should have to denounce bad actors that they don’t associate with. I think it’s a silencing tactic and a domination tactic.

  261. 261.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Suzanne: I follow dozens of people exactly like you mentioned (Pro-Palestine, Anti-Hamas, believe in Israel’s right to exist, a Two-State Solution and respect/safety for both peoples) and they are constantly commanded to condemn Netanyahu and extreme Zionist settlers (which they do).

    Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib is just one, fairly prominent example.  Literally every other tweet he puts out is condemning Netanyahu and the IDF.  But it doesn’t stop people from constantly accusing him of “refusing to criticize Israel.”  Hamza Howidy is another.  Shaiel Ben Ephraim is another.  Alex @JewishWonk is another.  Elica LeBon is another.  Talia Ringer is another.  Look at any of their Twitter feeds and you will see that they don’t hesitate to criticize Israel/IDF/Netanyahu and extremist settlers.  And yet every time they dare to criticize Hamas (or the Free Palestine protest movement) they get a flood of responses claiming they don’t criticize Israel.  Even though many times, the very next (or previous) tweet, just above/below, shows them doing precisely that.

    For an even more prominent example, look at Josh Marshall or Magdi Jacobs.  Both have not been shy about criticizing Israel/Netanyahu/IDF.  But whenever they call out Hamas or the protests, suddenly the haters ignore all of their criticisms of Israel and demand they do it again, louder.  It makes it pretty clear that it’s not criticism of Israel that the haters want (because they both already do that).

    The haters want them to NOT CRITICIZE Hamas (or the protest movement).

  263. 263.

    Geminid

     

     

    @Lyrebird: Laura Rozen reposted this from Swiss reporter Giovanni Stanuova a few hours ago:

       Air France says it plans to resume Beirut flights Thursday after suspending the route on July 29.

  264. 264.

    Kay

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    We used to take my youngest son through Grand Rapids all the time on the way to Muskegon – he’s much the youngest so he was always with just his parents – and he would sincerely say at 5 or 6 “I want to live in…Grand Rapids when I’m older”. Like it was the epitome of where one could aspire to live. So funny. We would be “you could do that! That’s a fine goal!”

    He’s much more sophisticated now.

  267. 267.

    Geminid

    @wjca: Arizona Secretary of State Adrian Fontes’s family arrived in what is now southern Arizona in the 1740s. On the other hand, Arizona Senate candidate Rep. Ruben Gallego grew up in Chicago and his mother migrated from Mexico.

    One thing Fontes and Gallego have in common: they are both Marine Corps veterans.

  268. 268.

    MCA1

    @Kay: I just can’t get over how any business that sells products at an average price point of more than $3 makes the conscious choice to stay cash only in this day and age.  The fees on card transactions at a place like Bortell’s (which, if I recall from friends who go to Pentwater and were describing it, is a fresh fish market in addition to takeout place, so they’re selling $25/lb salmon and whatnot) are easily absorbed by just raising prices 3 or 4%.  Instead they drop 70% of the population from their potential customer base before they open the door in the morning, because very few people carry more than ten to twenty bucks in cash anymore.

    There’s a place up in Harbor Springs that’s both the best wine shop and best sandwich shop in town.  They’ve lost hundreds and hundreds of dollars of business from me over the years because they’re cash only and I’ll be damned if I’m going to go out of my way to pull from an ATM (and incur fees there!) just for their convenience.  Surely the proprietor is aware that I’m not alone in this and that they lose far more revenue by insisting on cash than they’d lose to credit card fees.  Which makes it very hard to believe the more innocent explanations for why they might still be cash only in 2024.

  270. 270.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Kay: I’m in the DC area now but GR is a nice city. One could aspire to worse than living there.

  271. 271.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @KatKapCC: Thank you.  Even if we add “Fuck Netanyahu/IDF/Extremist Settlers” to every comment, it goes completely ignored.  It sure makes it look like the goal isn’t more criticism of Israel (which there is always plenty) it’s less no criticism of Hamas (and the FreePalestine movement).

  272. 272.

    Soprano2

    @tam1MI: So they decided the money wasn’t worth it, that makes sense. They said she had a primary opponent, which is why I thought it was strange.

  273. 273.

    Manyakitty

    @Lyrebird: yep. I still have a few people around here blocked because of their refusal to acknowledge their own antisemitism. Really ugly, TBH.

  274. 274.

    Suzanne

    @wjca: Interestingly, Arizona and New Mexico are really different in this regard. New Mexico has a lot of Latino residents whose families have been American for a long time. Some are descendants of the conquistadors. And the average age of the state population is older. Arizona’s population has many more recent immigrants (documented and undocumented), many more DREAMers, and is much younger on average.

  275. 275.

    Soprano2

    @wjca: It’s a testament to the kind of silo I live in that I wasn’t even aware of this until I took a trip to New Mexico with my mother in 2014. It’s just not a thing here, so I never thought about it. Most all of the Latinos here have not been here that long, so the idea of them being here for centuries just didn’t penetrate with me.

  276. 276.

    Suzanne

    @Geminid: One of the worst moment of my teenage life was a riot at my high school. Population about evenly mixed between white and Latino (almost entirely Mexican). My friend group was, of course, the nerd freaks of both races. One day, a white dude touched a Latino girl’s butt, and it became a campus-wide fight by lunchtime. Cops were called and showed up in full riot gear, just as my friends and I were walking by wondering WTF was going on. One of my Latino friends, whose family has been in the U.S. much longer than mine, was walking right next to me and an officer grabbed him and sprayed something (mace? teargas?) in his face. There as absolutely no reason for that to happen and it was incredibly formative for me.

  278. 278.

    Soprano2

    @Citizen Alan: I’m the opposite, I look forward to them because in most of them the people beclown themselves and either don’t even know it or do eventually realize it, then they have no answer for him. Like the guy who talked a lot about how it was bad how divisive our politics were, while wearing a T-shirt with some horrible slogan about Biden on it. Totally not self-aware.

  280. 280.

    piratedan

    @BR: Indiana is where Notre Dame is located and Astin was forever immortalized as Rudy, which is the quintessential underdog story, regarding a bench player who finally got a chance to play.

  281. 281.

    tam1MI

    @Kay: We used to take my youngest son through Grand Rapids all the time on the way to Muskegon – he’s much the youngest so he was always with just his parents – and he would sincerely say at 5 or 6 “I want to live in…Grand Rapids when I’m older”. Like it was the epitome of where one could aspire to live. So funny. We would be “you could do that! That’s a fine goal!”

    I always used to say that Grand Rapids reminded me a lot of Milwaukee. (Or vice versa). Still does.

  287. 287.

    Tenar Arha

    @Shalimar: 

    I’ve never understood smart women who married for ambition. Yet there’s always been women who will trade independence for security. I can’t stop asking myself why would she decide to stay married to a man who wants to outlaw no-fault divorce? But then in my experience many women convince themselves to stay in bad marriages. We can’t know why Usha is staying with JD, though I suppose we’re allowed to judge her words seeing how she’s doing so. Maybe we’ll know why she stayed only after this campaign? I mean it’s obvious now why Melania the mercenary stayed. Every time that orange carbuncle ran, or won, or ran again, she’s renegotiated her prenup.

    I don’t know enough about UV’s background, except she got some high powered Supreme Court clerkships & lawyer jobs.  IIRC she didn’t stop working until around when JDV was being considered for VP, which means she has ambitions but “decided” to “support her husband.” OTOH what Usha Vance doesn’t have is a GOP party that would support her candidacy like Nikki Haley did have when she ran for governor. IMHO, they’re losing the talent pool of “serious” women candidates on their side, and attracting only grifters and stunters. Maybe it’s just this is the best perch she believes she could get within the party? Look at the women they’re electing nationally & statewide now, they’re all either Boeberts/MTGs, older women who are potential Dolores Umbridges, or baby voiced Katie Britts. Yuck.

    I’m not sure how to wrap this up. I hope this made sense?

  289. 289.

    Sally

    @Suzanne: This has always been my concern too, with mail in votes. Democrats believe your vote is yours alone, whereas R’s believe your vote is theirs to determine. I imagine some bully having family sitting around the table filling in ballots under strict supervision. I was a bit relieved when R’s were told mail voting was evil, and hoped that gave these families some privacy. Though it’s still a worry that people think their spouses, parents, or neighbours might have a way of knowing how they voted. And are consequently afraid.

    And it’s NOT BOTH SIDES.

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