Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

It looks like winning debates is a black job!

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

Republicans can’t even be trusted with their own money.

Bogus polls are all they’ve got left. Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls a year from now.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

The US Supreme Court is on the ballot in november.

Donald Trump, welcome to your everything, everywhere, all at once.

Cole is on a roll !

Somebody needs to explain to DeSantis that nobody needs to do anything to make him look bad.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

Biden: Oh no. We’ve upset Big Pharma again.

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

I’m more Christian than these people and I’m an atheist.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Thursday Evening Open Thread: Getting Psyched for the DNC Convention

Thursday Evening Open Thread: Getting Psyched for the DNC Convention

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Per The 19th, “How the DNC is prioritizing accessibility for all at this year’s convention”:

This year in Chicago the Democratic National Convention is making changes big and small to better accommodate its 850 disabled attendees, including 560 disabled delegates, who made accessibility requests to the event’s organizers.

“We made a commitment this year for accessibility and inclusion to be an important part of the convention in all aspects, in everything we do,” said Robin Jones, accessibility adviser to the Democratic National Convention Committee.

Wide-ranging accessibility considerations center attendees with many different kinds of disabilities, including people with limited mobility, people who are blind or low vision, people who are deaf or hard of hearing and people who are autistic or who have sensory sensitivities…

In addition to accessibility on the ground, the convention will be livestreamed with American Sign Language interpretation, live captioning, audio description and in Spanish from its two locations in Chicago from August 19 – 22.

Some of the changes are relatively small: Autistic and other attendees with sensory sensitivities will be given kits containing noise-canceling headphones for the first time this year, and scooters will be available for attendees to borrow who cannot walk long distances. Organizers have asked attendees to refrain from wearing strong fragrances to accommodate those with sensory and chemical sensitivities, and while they say masking is “100 percent optional,” it is encouraged for those who feel they need it.

One of the biggest changes at the DNC this year: For the first time, delegates in wheelchairs will be able to sit with their state delegations on the convention floor instead of in a separate wheelchair section using a newly installed temporary ramp.

Emily Voorde was a delegate for her home state of Indiana in 2012 and will be returning as a delegate in 2024. Voorde uses a wheelchair, and is excited to sit with her delegation this time with the addition of integrated, inclusive seating…

When asked what other accessibility changes she was most looking forward to, Voorde highlighted accessible transportation. The DNC will provide wheelchair-accessible buses to shuttle attendees from 45 different hotels to major convention center sites…

Voorde was also particularly excited to hear about the installation of wheelchair repair stations at Chicago airports. The stations are permanent and will remain after the Democratic National Convention has ended. In 2022, over 11,000 wheelchairs were lost, damaged or destroyed by U.S. airlines. Twice during air travel, Voorde’s wheelchair has been “totaled” and rendered completely unusable. But numerous other times, Voorde said she would have benefitted from the ability to make smaller repairs on her own…

There will also be major improvements for blind and low-vision delegates and attendees like Janni Lehrer-Stein. This is her third time serving as a delegate for California — she also participated in the 2016 and 2020 conventions.

“So much has changed since 2016. I think this might be the most accessible convention in the history of the nation,” she said.

Lehrer-Stein is most excited about the addition of live audio description. Human describers explain where people are on stage, what they are wearing, the hand gestures they make and other information that is not readily available to blind and low-vision audience members. This service is provided in a separate livestream blind viewers can tune into using their phones or other smart devices…

Reader Interactions

123Comments

  1. 1.

    PST

    There are a hundred good places to eat within a mile and a half of the festivities. Nice list of real Chicago institutions, though. Too bad Army & Lou’s is no more.

  7. 7.

    hueyplong

    Surely someone (Charles Pierce?) will note that Trump is insisting we’ll be a third world country UNLESS we elect a tinpot dictator.

  8. 8.

    RaflW

    As someone who spends time in Milwaukee, I’m still really pretty angry on the city’s behalf. The GOP held a shitty little convention that inconvenienced a lot of locals, had very poor ancillary spending, and one of the major moments was Trump dissing the place.

    I kind of feel like part of why he’s not having many rallies any more is the combo of his notorious stiffing of cities when he visits, and the realization that his presence doesn’t help the local place look better or attract interest. He’s just there to huck himself and leave. Doesn’t even bother to leave cash on the dresser after he’s had his ‘moment.’

  9. 9.

    SiubhanDuinne

    It will be nice to see my home city from afar. I love Chicago, but I don’t like big crowds, so I’ll happily watch on the old Tee and Vee machine.

  13. 13.

    Leto

    OT: I don’t know if Betty is watching the Chiefs/Jags preseason game, but the University of Florida is sponsoring the game. First time I’ve ever seen that, a college sponsoring a pro football telecast. We’ve seen the reporting that Sasse is blowing through money, and I guess we’ve found another place where it’s going.

  16. 16.

    RaflW

    @Leto: Also wonder if UF isn’t hitting their fall enrollment projections and is getting antsy? I think some prospective students might be turned off by all the wingy, DeSantis b.s. over there.

  22. 22.

    MC

    Harris and Walz have my blessing, but I want to make it clear that my preferred outcome still is trump croaking at the podium before election day.

  23. 23.

    Flanders Other Neighbor

    Speaking of Milwaukee (I grew up there), Harley Davidson went woke!!!  Must protest by boycotting!

    Not sure what that means in financial terms (I suspect not much), but there are a lot of angry videos on YT.  One fine fellow even destroyed a bike with a machine-gun.  These people are weird.

    But I got an A in economics in college, and if they collapse the market for HD products, fine by me.  I’ve been casually looking at buying a used touring bike just to see what the fuss is all about.  If their stupidity saves me $2-3k, I’m okay with that.

  26. 26.

    TBone

    @MC: I want him to know suffering first.  Losing the election under a blue landslide AND more criminal convictions with harsh sentences. Then an agonizing and slow demise.

  30. 30.

    danielx

    @RaflW:

    SFB’s campaign had to pay full $82,000 fee in advance for his rally venue in Asheville a few days days back. His reputation for stiffing cities that host his rallies (and everybody else he does business with) has preceded him.

  35. 35.

    Michael Bersin

    This morning at the Missouri State Fair Governor’s Ham Breakfast incumbent Senator Josh Hawley (r) arrived fashionably late and, dragging a scrum of media with him, made a beeline for Democratic Party nominee and challenger Lucas Kunce (D) who was standing in the middle of the venue. The circle crowded around the two included around 20 media (including me – with 2 cameras – 200 mm and 600 mm). It was so crowded I kept accidentally clubbing a shorter reporter with the 600 mm lens – who complained. I apologized and added, “shit happens.”

    Josh Hawley was wearing a lavalier mic, probably so his sound bites could be recorded for posterity. Bear in mind that there are hundreds of people at this event – the sound of their conversations was a dull roar. I stood about four to six feet away from them and I could only hear snippets of the agitated and long conversation. Josh Hawley (r) engaged in a debate about debates.

    It was a media zoo. Including me, trying to push through to get a decent image. I took several hundred frames (at 70 mm, using the 70-200 mm lens).

    Several photographers pulled up folding chairs to stand over the circle, trying to get images. Precarious, but no one fell.

    A debate about debates – Josh Hawley (r) and Lucas Kunce (D) at the Missouri State Fair Governor’s Ham Breakfast – August 15, 2024

    Josh Hawley (r) appears in person as some sort of perverse cross between Eddie Haskell and a Fascist.

  37. 37.

    Orange is the New Red

    I am quite concerned about pro-Palestinian protests interfering (by malign design) with the convention.

  41. 41.

    Argiope

    @Michael Bersin: great coverage and photos!  Yeah, Hawley manages to look really immature and whiny–or maybe you just captured his most telling moments.  Kunce looks calm, rested and ready.

  43. 43.

    japa21

    @Michael Bersin: Interesting photos.  Kunce looks amused and very composed.  Hawley looks like he’s trying to get a very specific response from Kunce and is frustrated because he isn’t getti9ng the response he wants.

  44. 44.

    wjca

    @Flanders Other Neighbor: One fine fellow even destroyed a bike with a machine-gun.  These people are weird.

    Perhaps he feels that HD going “woke” give him a rationalization for getting the rice rocket of his dreams instead.

  45. 45.

    clay

    @Leto: That’s insane.  UF doesn’t need to advertise anywhere; it’s already got way more applicants than it can accept.  (23% !!!). So what the hell are the ads even for?

  46. 46.

    Bill Arnold

    @HumboldtBlue:
    Oh, sorry. His last thread, in one of his replies to comments he said that you should look at replies to the last tweet in the thread, which has links to the website and to a donation page.

  48. 48.

    K-Mo

    Since it’s an open thread here’s my random axe-grind.

    Trump told Musk that the price of bacon had tripled under Biden.

    Actual price of a pound of bacon in 2020: $5.83.   If the price tripled it would now be $17.49.

    Actual price today: $6.77.  It went up a buck.  That’s bad if you love bacon, but it’s nothing like what Trump said.

    If we can’t use the actual facts and are just going to make shit up, we have no chances of solving real problems.

     

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/236811/retail-price-of-sliced-bacon-in-the-united-states/#:~:text=As%20of%202023%2C%20a%20pound,%2C%20burgers%2C%20and%20occasionally%20salads.

  49. 49.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Orange is the New Red: ​

    @BR: ​

    @Sean: ​
     

    CHICAGO (WLS) — The build-up leading to the DNC comes amid the legal battle between the City of Chicago and groups hoping to protest during the Democratic National Convention.

    The city’s decision on the protest restrictions is being questioned not just outside of City Hall, but also in court. A federal judge held a hearing Thursday with both sides, but no final decision was made and another hearing will be held on Friday.

  50. 50.

    SatanicPanic

    @Orange is the New Red: if they manage to get Trump reelected I’m personally going to start going to pro-Israel rallies. Not because like Israel, because they suck too.

    Unpopular opinion- Muslims are not a natural constituency for Democrats and we need to find a way to replace those voters. It’s clear a sizeable percentage don’t appreciate our efforts on their behalf.

  51. 51.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    I am betting Trump will crash the DNC and demand they give the nomination to Biden.

  52. 52.

    Michael Bersin

    @Argiope:

    Early on Lucas Kunce (D) had a WTF? look on his face. Of the large number of frames I took of Josh Hawley (r) very few had the “resting face” look you can get from shooting in bursts. The images you see in the post are representative of those images.

    Lucas Kunce (D) is not an idiot. He was expecting it. Josh Hawley (r) had been telegraphing his PR stunt well in advance of the event – including republicans promoting a “debate” at a barbecue place next to the State Fair grounds at noon.

    Interestingly, Josh Hawley (r) tried to pull a similar stunt on Claire McCaskill (D) in 2018.

    What passes for a flatbed truck at “…Yale, I think, or Harvard, one of those, one of those fancy ones…”

  53. 53.

    KatKapCC

    @HumboldtBlue: I hope they not only keep the restrictions but make them even stronger. These folks are just self-centered babies who only care about the conflict insofar as they can use it to get themselves noticed.

  54. 54.

    ssdd

    So I got an email today from something called “Senate Conservatives” begging for money to support GOP Senate campaigns in eight states, including Cruz in Texas and Scott in Florida. Interesting, I thought. Then a bit ago I saw this note in the WaPo:

    Well, we got a big new set of Senate polls from the Cook Political Reporton Thursday, and they suggest the Democrats got a significant bump there, too.

    Democrats improved their margins by an average of four points across five key Senate races: Arizona, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. They now lead in each race by at least seven points.

    Democrats also flipped the generic ballot — where people are asked to choose between a generic Republican and a generic Democrat — in two other states that don’t feature a 2024 Senate race: Georgia and North Carolina.

    In total, Democrats actually gained more down ballot than they did in the presidential race in every state except Wisconsin.

    Well, that explains it. Good news!

  55. 55.

    Delk

    I am grateful that we moved. We used to live across the street from the zone around the United Center. Just inside of the zone is a Chicago Housing Authority senior high rise building. I hope they interview some of the residents. It was our polling place and the people were a lot of fun.

  56. 56.

    Princess

    I’ve eaten at almost all the restaurants in that Eater article. Okay, not the Burger King at 41st.

  57. 57.

    Sister Golden Bear

    Seattle jackals…. We’d talked about doing a meet-up next Thursday since I’m in town. We could combine it with a DNC watch party, if anyone has suggestions for a location. The evening program is 4-8 p.m. Pacific, so I’m assuming if got together around 6, we’d catch the important stuff.

    (I’m also in town Friday evening, but I believe Yutsano can’t make it that day.)

  59. 59.

    Lapassionara

    @Michael Bersin: thank you for being there so I don’t have to.

    We received a mailing from Ann Wagner today. On one side, Ann sitting at a table facing a man with 5 children. Checkered table cloth.  Maybe a squeeze bottle of honey. (Off to one side, out of the photo, someone is holding the youngest child’s hand, maybe the mom). Headline, “Less Crime, More Police, Safer Families.”

    On the other side, a photo of Biden and Pelosi, with the headline: Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi opened the door for illegal immigrants into our country.” I guess this works for some. But seriously, who thinks like this anymore? Crime rates are down. This is not 1968.

    I’m not sure why she bothers to send out a mailing. She will no doubt win another term, even though she does nothing that I can see for our district.

    Missouri is supposed to be the “show me” state. Show me what?

  61. 61.

    Flanders Other Neighbor

    I can’t wait to watch clips of Vance in his next senate race.  “Trump who?  Never heard of him.  I think he used to get coffee for the campaign.”

  63. 63.

    Michael Bersin

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I’ve used the annual event as an opportunity to get “b-roll” file photo images of Missouri politicians – a lot of them attend. In election years it’s an opportunity for the primary victors (it was in the first week of August) to strut their stuff.

    Trackers have been effectively banned. You need a media credential to enter the event with a camera rig. I’ve been doing this event for almost twenty years.

    The previous photos I have of Josh Hawley (r), the third Senator from Virginia, were from 2016 when he was running for Attorney General. I’d missed him at subsequent breakfasts at the State Fair. Now I have a large selection of new images which I hope will become obsolete and useless curiosities in November.

  68. 68.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Lapassionara:

    On the other side, a photo of Biden and Pelosi, with the headline: Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi opened the door for illegal immigrants into our country.” I guess this works for some. But seriously, who thinks like this anymore? Crime rates are down. This is not 1968.

    Most people have no idea what’s happening with crime rates. If it bleeds, it leads, though, so people are always under the impression that there is a lot of crime.

  69. 69.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @SatanicPanic: Unpopular opinion- Muslims are not a natural constituency for Democrats and we need to find a way to replace those voters. It’s clear a sizeable percentage don’t appreciate our efforts on their behalf.

    Right wing Muslim fundamentalists may not be a good fit, but I don’t see why any other Muslim wouldn’t be.  Just like right wing Christian fundamentalists aren’t a good fit.  The issue is the right wing and fundamentalist parts, not the religion.   FFS!

  71. 71.

    TS

    @p.a.: He’s desperate to go back to outside venues to avoid paying anything & being able to lie about the numbers. Going to cost the SS money

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/08/15/secret-service-trump-rallies-bulletproof-glass/

    The plan to erect bulletproof glass to surround Trump at outdoor events is a major enhancement in the Secret Service’s standard security planning for candidate campaign events, according to the Secret Service official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive security measures. Such sheets of ballistic glass are normally only provided for presidents and for vice presidents when deemed necessary at outdoor appearances

  73. 73.

    CaseyL

    @Sister Golden Bear: ​

    Ooh, that’s a good idea. I don’t own a TV, though. Seems unlikely any public venue would have it on (though it’s hilarious to think of a sports bar tuning in!).

    I can see if any politically-oriented venues around here would have it.​

    ETA: I did find an online watch party, but it appears to only be for Wednesday night.

  75. 75.

    SatanicPanic

    @Omnes Omnibus: What should we tell queer people to think about the one Muslim majority city in the USA banning the pride flag? That’s in Hamtramck, these are the voters we’re talking about.

    Edit- IOW I don’t think there are enough non-fundamentalists to warrant courting them as voters

  81. 81.

    Gvg

    @Leto: Sasse is gone already. It’s coming out that he spent a lot of money on inflated salaries for his former legislative employees. I am guessing he intended to go back into politics again later.

    This was related to an expansion campus in Jacksonville. It’s mainly for more health professions, Nursing, dental, medical rotations and residencies. Gainesville and Shands have that but the town population isn’t big enough to train enough new students on and Jacksonville is a pretty big city where the medical field has lots of people who want to add a specialist degree without stopping the current job etc.

    I think it’s stupid, but I thought most things Sasse did were stupid,

    https://news.ufl.edu/2024/07/jaguars-partnership/

  82. 82.

    KatKapCC

    @SatanicPanic: So what does that mean? Because some Muslims are homophobic, then we should not want any of them in our party? There are homophobic Christians, Jews, atheists…there are probably homophobes in every faith (or non-faith) group you can name. How do you determine when it reaches a point at which the entire group is no longer welcome? And who gets to determine where that point is?

  87. 87.

    SatanicPanic

    @KatKapCC: I said what I mean- we need a plan b. Find a way to win Michigan without the Arab American vote. It’s not worth it. If we get some voters from that group great, but the Listen to Michigan people should be ignored if possible.

  88. 88.

    KatKapCC

    @SatanicPanic: I don’t think every Arab American in Michigan is going to vote against the Dems, but sure, we have to make sure we’re getting as many votes as we can.

    But what you said basically boiled down to “all Muslims hate gays and so the Democratic Party should tell the entire religion to go eff itself”. You are factually wrong about the first part and thus wrong about the second.

  90. 90.

    Ken

    @TS: the Secret Service official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive security measures.

    What!? “This is incredibly sensitive information, so don’t tell anyone who gave it to you”!

    Though I’m all in favor of the security plan; I’m sure Trump will look even more ridiculous inside his fish tank.

  92. 92.

    Fraud Guy

    My spouse is deep in Q and they are expecting 30,000 Antifa warriors to show up, and supposedly some 3 letter agency is contacting local morgues to see if they can hold 10,000 corpses, and I’m like, what?

  94. 94.

    SatanicPanic

    @KatKapCC: I did not say that. I said there is one example of Muslims being in majority control of a city and they banned pride flags. This is a warning sign for us that too many Muslim voters may have problematic views for our coalition and that specifically courting them is probably a bad idea.

  99. 99.

    SatanicPanic

    @Omnes Omnibus: what I’m saying is pretty clear tho- ignore this bloc of voters and find a different path to victory because they’re already a problem for us and I don’t see how that changes anytime soon. 

  102. 102.

    KatKapCC

    @SatanicPanic:

    ignore this bloc of voters and find a different path to victory because they’re already a problem for us

    That absolutely correlates with what I boiled your comments down to.

    And this:

    I said there is one example of Muslims being in majority control of a city and they banned pride flags. This is a warning sign for us that too many Muslim voters may have problematic views for our coalition

    is some stunning dissonance in two sentences: “one example” immediately followed by “too many Muslim voters“. Explain that to us dummies who are apparently not smart enough to understand your definitely non-bigoted thinking here.

  103. 103.

    prostratedragon

    Buffet at Pearl’s highly recommended for lunch or early dinner (they normally close before 7pm). Daley’s on Cottage Grove Ave. is another daytime restaurant with a long history of movers and shakers. The founder was no relation go the political Daleys.

  105. 105.

    SatanicPanic

    @KatKapCC: no , you said kick them out, I said don’t specifically court them. Different things. We don’t go out of our way to court Scientologists or Amish people either.

    I use Hamtramck as an example because it’s literally the only example of a Muslim majority city in the USA. But that was a move by the town council, so this was multiple people and plenty of voters supporting this. And their stated rationale was that flying the pride flag would offend voters’ religious sentiments. What else should I take away from that? What would you tell a queer Muslim kid to take away from that?

  107. 107.

    Maxim

    @ssdd: Excellent news. No counting our chickens, of course, but more enthusiasm to keep us doing the work is good. Thanks.

  108. 108.

    KatKapCC

    @SatanicPanic:

    no , you said kick them out, I said don’t specifically court them

    I mean, six of one, but fine. You’re determined to stick to the notion that you are somehow not being prejudiced here, so I’m gonna let you have at it.

    I would not tell a queer Muslim kid what they should think about it, because I am not Muslim and I can’t possibly tell someone who is how to navigate that situation. What I would tell them is that they matter just as much as anyone else, and that I’m not going to lump them in with the worst elements of their religion, nor am I going to tell them they can get rekt because they have some shitty people in their religious group. Why do YOU think that “not courting” that queer Muslim kid as a Democrat is going to help them in any way?

    Maybe start with some reading:

    We Have Always Been Here: A Queer Muslim Memoir

    Hijab Butch Blues

    Living Out Islam: Voices of Gay, Lesbian, and Transgender Muslims

    Unicorn: The Memoir of a Muslim Drag Queen

  109. 109.

    Darkrose

    @Princess: I’ve eaten at Pearl’s Place, the Berghoff, and Billy Goat’s. They were one of the go-to lunch spots the two summers I worked at the Sun-Times.

  111. 111.

    wjca

    @SatanicPanic: I don’t think there are enough non-fundamentalists to warrant courting them as voters

    Probably worth, as with Christians, distinguishing between fundamentalists and those who are merely conservative.  It’s possible to negotiate with conservatives, and reach compromises.  And even persuade them as voters.  But with fundamentalists it’s always their way or the highway.  Their version of their religion** simply doesn’t allow compromise.

    ** Almost invariably rather distant from the explicit words of its originator.  Which makes the term “fundamentalist” something of a misnomer.  But its established as a term of art now.

  112. 112.

    wjca

    @SatanicPanic: their stated rationale was that flying the pride flag would offend voters’ religious sentiments. What else should I take away from that? What would you tell a queer Muslim kid to take away from that?

    And you don’t know of any cases of Christianists taking a majority on a town council, perhaps because voters didn’t turn out.  And doing stuff that, eventually gets them recalled by irate voters.  Because I have one just down the road from me.  By coincidence, what set the voters off was a Pride flag ban.  Lots of Christians there, just not in sympathy with the RWNJs.

  114. 114.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @SatanicPanic:

    I don’t think there are enough non-fundamentalists to warrant courting them as voters

    Dude, seriously listen to yourself. You take one example and make a huge leap into unjustified speculation about all Muslims (even if you’re just referring to Michigan).

    Plenty of non-fundamentalist Muslims out there. I, a queer trans woman, have worked with them without issue.

    Also too… IIRC a number of leaders of the “don’t vote Biden” effort in Michigan turned out to be… you guess it… Republicans. It was a ratfucking effort.

  122. 122.

    Kay

    @SatanicPanic:

    Most Muslims in the US aren’t Arab. They’re Indian or Pakistani. Indians and Pakistanis vote 80% Democratic, which is both much higher than Latinos and MUCH higher than white people, who are predominently Christian.

    Arab Americans vote 70% Democratic, which is also higher than both Latinos and white people, but of course all Arab Americans aren’t Muslim – many, many Michigan Arab Americans are Christians. You’re even wrong on the narrow issue of Muslim mayors in Michigan. The mayor of Dearborn is Muslim and a liberal who advocates on behalf of gay people publlcly and frequently.

    Democrats haven’t done anything for Muslims that they haven’t also done for everyone else, so I’m not clear why just Muslims would have a special duty to be grateful to them that also wouldn’t apply to the 55% of white people who don’t vote for them or the 40% of Latinos who don’t vote for them. Unless it’s just anti Muslim bias- I agree with there. There’s a lot of that.

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