COACH! pic.twitter.com/LcOSznPzQ4
— Lucy Caldwell (@lucymcaldwell) August 22, 2024
Tim Walz: America’s coach—and the next Vice President of the United States.
Proud to be in this together. pic.twitter.com/ie69YoqZCZ
— Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) August 22, 2024
Walz: Hope, Gus, and Gwen you are my entire world. And I love you. pic.twitter.com/tf2ByA9RIs
— Acyn (@Acyn) August 22, 2024
You know you’ve done well as a parent when your kids are as proud of you as Gus and Hope are of Tim Walz. “That’s my dad.” No three words better describe our next Vice President. pic.twitter.com/zNOyBjo5Fy
— Amy Klobuchar (@amyklobuchar) August 22, 2024
Gus Walz is neurodivergent, and this clip is where *I* teared up, because I’m old enough to remember when medical specialists routinely told parents ‘Put it in an institution, and tell the neighbors it died. You don’t want to ruin your other kids’ lives, do you?’ (I have peers who only found out about relatives with Down Syndrome after parents who took this advice were no longer able to keep the ‘family shame’ hidden.) Seeing a candidate for national office shout out to his kid is… well, special. He’s a good man, and they’re a great family!
Thank you to my former student Hans Storvick, John Randle, @AmyKlobuchar, and @TinaSmithMN.
Minnesota proud! We are energized and ready to win this thing. pic.twitter.com/IsIpVtuSgt
— Tim Walz (@Tim_Walz) August 21, 2024
.@Tim_Walz is the kind of person who should be in politics—someone who knows who he is and what’s important. I have no doubt that he’ll make an outstanding vice president, and I’m looking forward to helping him and @KamalaHarris get elected this fall. pic.twitter.com/Pa1tkCyP75
— Barack Obama (@BarackObama) August 22, 2024
Tim Walz plays up his gun ownership cred: “I was a lot better shot than most Republicans in Congress, and I got the trophies to prove it.
“But I'm also a dad. I believe in the Second Amendment, but I also believe our first responsibility is to keep our kids safe.”
— Joey Garrison (@joeygarrison) August 22, 2024
This is a real thing that happened: Tim Walz was inducted into the West Mankato HS sports hall of fame. He stuck around after the ceremony to help put chairs away.
— John Reinan (@johnnyasheville) August 20, 2024
Walz is also making all the reicht right people unhappy. Hi, McArgleBargle!
The most uninformed person who is paid six figures to be informed, maybe ever https://t.co/A14KfTpsEt
— Peter Wolf (@peterawolf) August 20, 2024
Axios feels the need to chime in…
Gov. Tim Walz's rise to the national stage is bringing fresh scrutiny to his record + words.
To close observers back home — including #mnpolitics press corps — his tendency to misspeak or make inaccurate or inconsistent public comments isn't new.https://t.co/F9enwEBdfh
— Torey Van Oot (@toreyvanoot) August 21, 2024
And is evidently hasn’t kept him from being an effective & respected governor. https://t.co/DMwNVva2Us
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) August 21, 2024
Yes, Raven, that is a Jason Isbell hat…
— kyle (@___solace__) August 20, 2024
On The Road – UncleEbeneezer – Early-Summer, Eastern Sierra Adventure (Part 4-of-5): North Fork Trail
Baud
Oh no! Clouds and shadows!
Baud
Some talking head compared Walz to Ted Lasso, but I saw no similarity of style other than both being coaches who are decent people.
Another Scott
[yawn] Ok, they’re trying to roll out Clouds And Shadows again.
They have one playbook, and they’re frantically thumbing through it for the next hit piece on Democrats.
The political press on the other side is pathetic.
Thanks, AL.
Forward!!
[eta:] Baud – Jinx!
Cheers,
Scott.
Patricia Kayden
Walz is a perfect way to appeal to working class White guys who may be queasy about Trump. Great pick and cool guy.
JML
“Close observers back home” usually means republican legislator and operatives who have been trying to dirty up Tim Walz for years and have totally failed.
And considering who the GOP nominee is, the press has zero legs to stand on if they’re going to try and make Walz’s occasional misstatements A Thing. No one who is a human cares that Walz used the shorthand of IVF to encompass the fertility treatment plan his family used, even if it’s not technically correct. Clutch your pearls a little harder, clown show, the governor used the wrong acronym! Og my stars and garters!
This the kind of thing that only the desperate and biased care about.
Baud
@Another Scott:
@JML:
In fairness to them, it’s worked in the past.
Scout211
Thank you, AL! I love your morning good news threads! It’s so nice to read these positive threads each morning.
And we have so much positive news to share this morning. Tim Walz’s speech was a barn-burner for sure. It looks like VP Harris made an excellent choice. As I commented last night, the teacher/coach knows how to work a room. I’d add, and he knows how to give an inspiring pep talk to a country full of Democrats who need it right now.
There were many good speakers last night and the music was good. I look forward to P!nk tonight and of course, our nominee Kamala Harris to bring it all home.
Let’s keep it positive, yeah?
EarthWindFire
According to his own supporters, Trump both tells it like it is and doesn’t mean at least half of what he says. This line of “attack” is stupid, even for the MSM.
Ohio Mom
I’d forgotten McArgleBargle existed. I see I didn’t miss anything by forgetting her.
I don’t know how much difference it will make as far as policies and programs, having a Vice President with a neurodiverse son, but it certainly lifted a lot of spirits last night when families like mine saw one of us in the spotlight in the most casual way.
Tony Jay
bbleh
So IIRC, the Republicans weren’t going to give an inch, weren’t going to let the Dems dominate the news this week. They were gonna push back, Get Out There, do events every day, get coverage, etc.
[looks around, hears sound of crickets]
TBone
VoteVets is ON IT. Digby forgot to put a linkable headline on this post, but it’s on her page second from the top (although it may be bigfooted soon):
VoteVets goes on to list the rethugs’ MANY instances of Stolen Valor.
Digby:
Ohio Mom
Every time I see Walz get teary-eyed, I remember how that did in another Democratic VP candidate, Eagleton, and I am happy that we have evolved to accept tenderness in men.
(Yeah, I know Eagleton had a history of mental health issues but as I recall, it was tears that set off that witch-hunt).
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
L to the OL McCardlebargle! They didn’t vet THEIR VP candidate sufficiently so they have try and both sides it. So transparent and lame!
oldgold
Last night on CNN, Vance says this about Walz’s convention speech:
I just don’t understand a person in American politics in 2024 who is whining about what happened to them instead of using their leadership and influence to make the lives of American citizens better.”
Wow!
Dagaetch
@Tony Jay: literally cannot tell if those are fake or real.
TBone
@Scout211: 👍💜
sixthdoctor
@oldgold: Whenever I hear Vance I immediately think The Onion needs to update their list from 2002.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, …
Low energy. Small “crowd”. Sad.
Cheers,
Scott.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
I thought my governor, Wes Moore, was fantastic last night. Buttigieg was great but I almost felt bad for him for having to follow Moore. Wes tore it up.
The Republicans have to be shitting bricks watching all these up and comers on our side and looking at their bench of…who? Noem, Burghum? Their best is probably Kemp and I’ll confess I haven’t really heard him speak but am guessing he’s not in the same league as any of these guys.
Soprano2
Seriously, Vance said that? Has he met his running mate? Has he listened to TCFG talk for more than a minute at any one time? Because that man can’t say three sentences without talking about some grievance he’s nursing. Did the CNN people laugh in his face? They should have. Most.Unaware.Person.Ever!
Baud
@oldgold:
Vance ripped off Bill Clinton.
TBone
LFG music 😁🎶😍
https://youtu.be/CAEU1yANRSY
Matt McIrvin
@Ohio Mom: The one who was sunk by showing tears was Ed Muskie. The same year! What a rotten year that was.
Ivan X
@Ohio Mom: Every now and then someone here reminds me of her and I’m like why, oh why, did I have to think about this particular idiot again.
There’s something particularly enraging about her idiocy, though; it’s the absolute smugness that it comes wrapped in.
Soprano2
I was only able to see most of Walz’s speech last night, I missed the rest of the convention because I had to go to the bar and talk to my manager (crisis averted!). I did see some of it on one of the TV’s there, and I noticed that Bill Clinton looks a lot healthier than the last time I saw him. He used to have this gaunt look to him. I’m going to listen to his speech this morning.
I have to admit Walz has a special place in my heart, because my dad was a coach who was a lot like him, only more conservative. He was also a farmer, so he had plenty of those old work shirts – they weren’t flannel, they were blue. He wasn’t that great at fixing things, but he would help people out when they needed it and he cared fiercely about kids and making sure they got a good education.
Ken
A reminder, we are no longer referring to “pearl necklaces” or “fainting couches” after the … unfortunate JD Vance incident.
Shalimar
@bbleh: Trump has in fact been doing events every day. He has 6 total scheduled from Monday-Friday and based on his crowds so far it is possible but very unlikely that his total attendance from all 6 will be 20% of the Harris/Walz rally in Milwaukee. Meanwhile, JD Vance is struggling to draw dozens of people at each of his appearances. It’s really hard to counter-program when you schedule small events at the last minute.
TBone
Man that poor, worn out rethuglican chicken has got to be tired by now 😆 yet they keep going at it.
EarthWindFire
@oldgold: In Vance’s gender driven, pull yourself by the bootstraps on your nonexistent boots world, using your influence to feed kids probably sounds like whining. To the rest of us, he just sounds weird.
p.a.
“Tim Walz has been making public statements for years. We have discovered multiple instances of him ending sentences with prepositions.
With our help,Will this sink the Harris campaign?”Baud
@p.a.:
Oh no. That’s something up with which America will not put.
Shalimar
@oldgold: Vance also said Walz was very negative because he won’t help Donald Trump rescue America from the hellhole it has become in their addled minds.
zhena gogolia
@Scout211: Yes, thank you, AL.
I stayed up for Walz’s speech and I wasn’t disappointed!
Danielx
@Baud:
Questions Are Being Raised.
By who, you ask?
The usual suspects.
Danielx
@oldgold:
Almost like he’s never met his running mate, eh?
Scout211
The national news sources don’t yet have all the speakers for tonight and the DNC won’t be posting the schedule until later today. Several local news sources have partial lists:
Added from NBC
Tony Jay
@Dagaetch:
Verisimilitude achieved.
oldster
@p.a.:
Meanwhile, at Trump/Vance headquarters:
Stephen Miller: “He ended sentences with prepositions?? Is that all we’ve got to work with?!”
JV Dance: “…ummm…to with work. … to which work…. Got it! With which to work! Amy Chua would be so proud of me!”
Trump: “So he made some prepositions, so what. I have prepositioned more girls than he has, I’ll bet you that, and younger, too. But how did he use that to end his sentences? When am I getting sentenced, again?”
Jeffro
@Patricia Kayden: right??! 😀
Go Coach!! 💙🇺🇸
Ken
@Tony Jay: As the recent “AI” push has taught us, the key to bullshitting is to present it with confidence.
Tony Jay
@Ken:
Where bullshit is called for I’m always super confident.
Jeffro
PS: I know this is a Walz thread, but how about Hakeem Jeffries last night?
”trump is like your bad ex-boyfriend who still wants to get back together…dude, there’s a reason we broke up with you”
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣💙🇺🇸
TBone
@Jeffro: 🔥❤️😆
Scout211
Jeffries was awesome! I loved his speech and his wonderful delivery in an almost melodic cadence. It was one of the night’s best.
zhena gogolia
@Scout211: Am I wrong, or are Adam Schiff and Michael Bennet not anywhere on the program? (Not that I’m complaining.)
TBone
@oldster: 😆
twbrandt
@Soprano2: Vance’s handlers had that line that teed up for him long before Walz’ speech and he just trotted it out as instructed.
Ken B
So tonight’s the night that Trump learns who the Democrats are nominating for President, right?
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Speaking of small events, what the hell was that TFG-in-the-parking-garage thing? Was there anybody there besides the bored cops standing behind him? Did he just wander into a random building thinking he was entering a McDonald’s?
Mousebumples
@Baud: hey, I’ll take it. Appeal to normies who like Ted Lasso.
And I’d rather have a good guy as VP vs their creepy nominee.
TBone
Some smart aleck opened a big new brew pub here in 2021 and named it The Jackass Brewery. “Settle down Karen, it’s a donkey!” is emblazoned across the back of my T-shirt and the front shows 2 American Gothic women “Moms with Pitchforks.”
🎶😆
https://youtu.be/nsRKleS-Ihk
The college kids love the place and I met a very handsome college student bartender there. They serve artisanal Pennsylvania vodka 😎 for those who don’t like too much beer
Chris
They’re going to try very hard to hang the exact same narrative around Tim Walz that they did around Joe Biden: low-watt bulb with creeping senility who’s always tripping over his IQ in public.
If I were a cynic, I’d say that it’s the usual “if Republicans are accused of a thing, Democrats must also be accused of the thing.” Republicans gave us three inarticulate weirdos in a row whose language-butchering tendencies actually pretty well illustrated the state of their brains (Quayle, Dubya, Palin), and that’s before we even get to Trump. Therefore Democrats must be accused of the same.
… If I were a cynic.
Soprano2
@twbrandt: I’m sure that’s true, but geez it describes TCFG to a tee! Are they that unaware of their candidate?
I thought Bill Clinton’s speech was good. It wasn’t a barn burner, but it was a solid speech with a good message. I’m just glad to see he looks healthier, for a while he looked like he was on death’s doorstep.
Baud
@Jeffro:
Does he sound like JFK with a Brooklyn accent to you?
TBone
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: yesterday’s Tiedrich was hilarious about that.
SiubhanDuinne
@Tony Jay:
It was the corroborative detail. Otherwise, it would have been a bald and unconvincing narrative.
Jeffro
@Baud: who’s JFK?
(I kid, I kid 😁)
yes, I can hear that in the mix, along with some Jesse Jackson maybe and others)
SiubhanDuinne
@oldster:
Hahahahaha, brilliant!!
(Does your brain always work this well in the morning? I am consumed with envy.)
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Chris: It’s even closer to home than that. Vance wasn’t thoroughly vetted and there all kinds of things he’s said that have already been problematic so, by the laws of BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME the same has to be said of the Democratic VP candidate. Every accusation is a confession part the infinity.
Baud
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
Someone needs to get those purloined classified documents out of Harris’s bathroom ASAP.
Chris
@Baud:
There can be no such thing as JFK with a Brooklyn accent. JFK’s whole persona cannot be separated from that wonderful, wonderful Boston accent. It’d be like Sean Connery with a Minnesotan accent.
twbrandt
@Jeffro: Jeffries was fantastic! I’ve never heard him speak before and I was super impressed.
SiubhanDuinne
@Scout211:
I agree! I’ve always liked Hakeem, but until last night I didn’t know he could also be such a compelling speaker. (Can’t wait until he’s also a compelling Speaker.)
NotMax
Aloha from Noo Yawk.
oldster
@SiubhanDuinne:
Thanks — I’m glad you enjoyed it.
In order to channel that crew, it’s better if your brain is not working.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Baud: Yeah they’re about 5 minutes from making that accusation too. Along with financial fraud and did she also sexually assault someone in a department store dressing room? Seems like she must have!
Frankensteinbeck
@Soprano2:
“Nuh-uh, you!” is standard Republican argument. I don’t think it’s projection so much as elementary school level immaturity.
And “Both sides are equal, so if a Republican has a problem we have to work twice as hard to prove the Democrat has it” is a national press fetish.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone 😊 😊 😊
rikyrah
@Jeffro:
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
rikyrah
@Patricia Kayden:
Truth.
Governor Santa Claus is that guy 🤗
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
TBone
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: I just watched a video of an intrepid young reporter at a Donold rally. One interviewee was completely unaware that Donold had been charged and convicted of anything. He literally never heard or saw any news about any prosecutions.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Trump is apparently claiming that the demonstrations in Chicago have been violent–police cars attacked, flags burned, 5 people killed, etc.
I live in Chicagoland. If that kind of violence was in progress, the Trib would have mentioned it.
Layer8Problem
@NotMax: Welcome aboard! Now off to bed with you, because your body’s saying it’s really 3:45 AM.
bbleh
@Shalimar: Oooo that’s gotta hurt. And I’m seeing precious little if any media about them.
SatanicPanic
@Dorothy A. Winsor: that guy has quite the imagination
I wonder when Biden will get around to taking the nomination back? Trump said he’s very mad.
Ken
He’s confusing it with January 6.
Frankensteinbeck
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Conservatives believe that big cities, because they have a lot of black people in them, are seething cesspools of crime and violence. I remember for a couple of years after the George Floyd protests they would use Seattle and Portland being flaming ruins as arguments to support their other idiocies. They not only believed that bullshit, they took it as an ‘everyone knows’ fact.
When I came back from California to Kentucky, the guy at the window of a McDonalds drive-through once asked me something that made me say I was from LA. He said I must be relieved to have gotten away from the crime. He was utterly boggled when I told him I was safer on LA’s streets than Lexington’s.
Trump might believe what he’s saying. His audience certainly will.
Sure Lurkalot
In honor of NotMax making it to N.Y., here’s a good Michael Hiltzik article about one of his beats (Truth Social Stock Dive).
http://archive.today/2024.08.20-211611/https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2024-08-20/trumps-truth-social-stock-is-circling-the-drain
WaterGirl
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
I was blown away by Wes Moore. He has the gift of talking to you while he just happens to be at a podium on a stage.
Wow, just wow.
twbrandt
This is a good column (gift link) from Matt Bai on the differing visions of America, contrasting Vance’s ethno-nationalism with Vance’s community and values oriented vision. Worth a read.
Geminid
@SiubhanDuinne: Jeffries previewed these rhetorical abilities in January of 2019, when he nominated Nancy Pelosi for Speaker on the first day of the new Congress.
It was slightly under 3 brilliant minutes that had Democrsts cheering and “the Once and Future Speaker” grinning by the end. The short speech is well worth checking out on YouTube.
jonas
So what’s the devastating dirt on Walz supposed to be? We know about the Great Period Product Scandal™ and I’m reading now that he’s actually a Chinese sleeper agent because, you know, he once traveled to China. Anything else I’m missing?
Soprano2
@Frankensteinbeck: When I told people I was going to New York City last year, one of them told me I should take a gun with me! I was like no way, no that’s crazy. They truly do think cities are like the movie “Escape from New York”.
TS
@zhena gogolia:
I read somewhere? that the program for tonight hasn’t been finalised. With Schiff being the Senate candidate for California perhaps he will be speaking tonight?
If you click for the details here
https://demconvention.com/schedule/?event_day=4
there is nothing available yet for the evening schedule.
HinTN
@NotMax: Patches successful?
p.a.
What part, LonGUYland?
JML
They’re trying a Stolen Valor thing based on the circumstances of his retirement from the Guard, the DUI from 30 years ago, and desperately trying to claim he’s super gaffe prone for doing things like using the wrong acronym relating to fertility issues.
Most of it is from the classic case of Rubber v. Glue, really.
jonas
@Sure Lurkalot: Truth Social was the very definition of a meme stock, nothing more. It’s all going to end in a trainwreck of SEC investigations, lawsuits, and recriminations. Nunes and the other managers may have avoided indictment only by being so transparent in their filings about the whole company being one big house of cards built on a joke named Trump.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@WaterGirl: I have to confess I haven’t heard him speak much even though he’s our governor… probably because his campaign coincided with when we were in South Africa for six months adopting our son. But yeah…I think that guy is going places. He was fantastic.
Jeffries’s ex boyfriend circling the block riff was the non-Walz moment of the night though. What a line. My octogenarian parents were chuckling. They thoroughly approved.
chris green
@Frankensteinbeck: my aunt is retired in south Carolina and refuses to believe blm didn’t burn my city of seattle down and that I’m not in mortal danger here.
She lives in _myrtle beach_. I can feel the crime and danger she is oblivious to every time I visit. Billboards for addiction and bail bonds everywhere, obvious (to me) meth heads, sleazy looking vape shops selling kratom+weird quasilegal basement cannabinoids, etc. Seattle’s murder rate is a fraction of theirs.
Sure Lurkalot
I’m awestruck by the number of good speakers at the DNC. I got “comfortable” speaking to my classes of 25-30 Latin students but my public speaking abilities ended there.
I think some people have this as a natural talent but for others, it takes work. I had a shy but witty friend who went to Toastmasters to learn to talk to a crowd and he developed skills with time and practice but I’m not sure he ever attained that level of rapport some seem to have.
p.a.
My idiot tRumpist cousin claimed he WON all 60+ election challenges. The reporting was “fake news”. “Hey moron, the actual court decisions are public record.” Obama judges. He’s cut off.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: Wes Moore is an interesting example of someone who never before held elective office showing that they are in fact a formidable politician.
I think Nikki Budzinski, your new Congresswoman is another example, but she’s never gonna go viral with remarks at an Agriculture Committee hearing. I suspect Budzinski will eventually make her mark nonetheless.
Jackie
I hope the arena is glaringly empty!🤞🏻
jonas
@JML: Oh yeah. I’d forgotten the stupid shit about him supposedly retiring because he wanted to avoid deploying to Iraq or something. This, from the party backing the vet-dissing, draft-dodging Lord Bonespurs.
narya
I haven’t watched Walz yet (I recorded stuff), but overall I am blown away by the depth and strength and diversity of the Dem bench; it’s so nice to see hope and joy instead of old white male grievance, and it’s so nice to hear them all talking about the “kitchen table issues” that really matter for most of us. Also too: I’m glad they had that J6 video to remind everyone about it and to recall just how violent it was.
Trivia Man
I notice Don Old had a major “interview” on fox&friends but it voice only. Why is he afraid to appear on video? What is he hiding?
Speaking if hiding, gas anyone asked him directly to show his tax returns? Or asked JD? Or asked JD why Don Old refuses to show the returns? 🤔 inquiring minds want to know.
lowtechcyclist
@oldgold:
Yeah, his running mate is pretty disgusting. Hard to argue with him here.
Eunicecycle
@chris green: I have a friend who also firmly believes there’s nothing left of Seattle and Portland. We have a mutual friend who goes to Seattle often because her son lives there, and my fearful friend (FF) recently asked if the city had been rebuilt and if she feels safe. The mutual friend looked pretty confused. The FF has a son living in Chicago and she’s always so worried about him and his family. It’s not good to be so anxious all the time!
Almost Retired
@chris green: That’s funny. My cousin in the Midwest is convinced that I have to crouch in the back of my house in Los Angeles to avoid stray gunshots, smash-and-grab flash mobs and drug-addled home invaders. Also, men dressed as women at the YWCA. The dude lives in the same little town that was the subject of the book “Methland.”
Captain C
@Danielx:
So, the editors, publishers, and try-too-hard-to-be-cool friends of the reporter/pundit?
Papa Boyle
Tim Walz reminds me of people I was lucky to know.
Donald Trump reminds me of people I was lucky to avoid.
Captain C
@Soprano2:
That’s a good way to get a jail sentence if you’re caught (and don’t have the proper paperwork). Ask Plaxico Burress.
JML
@jonas: oh, I forgot one: the right-wing media has been trying to bash Walz for not owning stocks, bonds, or (currently) real estate). Apparently, he can’t understand ‘Merica without having an investment portfolio (outside of his retirement accounts) or owning another house beyond the Governor’s mansion he’s been living in for free.
Baud
@Jackie:
Obama had something to say about Trump’s infatuation with crowd size.
Trivia Man
I hope tonight everyone does accordion hands at least once. Make him self conscious about ever moving his hands while speaking. Easy action, it can become a viral meme in no time.
Dangerman
OK, we have a Coach, now we need a Norm ….
…although I’ll settle for normal.
On Youtube, you can find a video of all the clips of Norm being welcomed into Cheers. Damn, some people have too much time on their hands.
Jackie
@Baud: Yes, he did! 🙌🏻
Scout211
No, that’s not the point. IMHO the point is that they believe that their voters will buy their claim that the super secret devastating dirt that hasn’t yet been revealed is way worse than the actual Trump (and Vance) dirt that we all know about and see the evidence of every day.
They really believe that their voters will believe that there has to be something that the Dems are hiding about both Harris and Walz. Just imagine how awful it could be! It could be devasting!
🙄
Ishiyama
Why hasn’t this become a bumpersticker: MVP + Coach
Chris
@Frankensteinbeck:
Ten years ago I used to roll my eyes at the lurid stories of Paris and London being wastelands ruled by Sharia Law and divided into No Go Zones because universal health care had destroyed the economy and Eurabia policies meant the Muslims ruled everything. And attribute it to the usual provincialism where everything that’s not America is the “Here Be Monsters” part of the map.
But that’s not really it; they believe the exact same thing about the American cities that are twenty minutes up the road from them, even though most of them go there several times a year.
TBone
@p.a.: I’m sorry you had to go through that but glad the garbage took itself out.
Kay
UAW just came out backing letting the Palestinian American MI lawmaker speak.
UAW has a lot of clout this cycle with “uncommitted” in MI cutting into the Detroit area vote. That gives them more leverage.
I hope Democratic leadership reconsider and let her deliver her speech.
I love Shawn Fain. A labor leader with a spine who actually LEADS. Imagine that.
TBone
@Dangerman: “Hey NORM! Whaddya say to a beer?”
Big grin: “Howdy sailor, come here often?”
It’s like a bar dad joke that Tim Walz might tell.
theturtlemoves
@Eunicecycle: Portland looked fairly intact a month ago when I braved the Mad Max wastelands to go to a concert at the Rev Hall. It’s hilarious. Had to point out to a dude I went to school with commenting on the Book of the Face that no, Portland wasn’t actually burned to the ground. Hell, I walked across the city to go to Powell’s the day some good soul threw a milkshake at Andrew Ngo during the Summer of Fire.
TBone
@Kay: Wonkette named him Sexiest Man Alive. 😍
Dangerman
@TBone: Found the Norm Youtube video; surprisingly, not that long (hi, Donald):
Here
S Cerevisiae
@JML: Seriously? They’re trying to knock him for not being rich enough? I don’t think that argument is going to work with normies.
I thought Governor Walz gave a great speech last night, but the true emotion and love he and his family showed was the thing that really came through.
This Minnesotan is proud to have them representing us on the national stage, let’s go win this!
Peke Daddy
@jonas: His wife had to hide his video game console because he was playing too much. Really.
Mike E
Fix’t.
TBone
@NotMax: ooooh bagels (drools in envy)
Trivia Man
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: I saw Gov Moore at a very small event in WI recently. It was awesome to see him up close and personal.
Kay
@TBone:
Theres a moral clarity there that has been sorely missing from labor. Health benefits are nice but people want to believe in something. No one joins a movement over a lower deductible.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Note that the current Republican Speaker of the House doesn’t have a bank account. Personally, I’ll call this another point in Walz’s favor.
satby
True statement, and even made by not conservative, middle of the road, lower info type voters I know. The common denominator is that they’re all offspring of white flighters to the suburbs in the 60s. Even when they go to Chicago and have a great time, they’re always anxious about all the different people, all the traffic, all the bustle. Not consciously racist, most of them, but that racist programming runs deep.
Trivia Man
@Ken B: Wait for it!! By Gawd is that Joe Biden’s music I hear???? is what TCFG is expecting.
(spoiler: joe ain’t swooping in tonight, as dramatic as that would be)
Mike E
@sixthdoctor: I’ll make an exception for Mark Cuban, his discount prescription drug mail-order service has really helped my daughter out a lot.
SatanicPanic
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Apparently if you don’t have an interest generating account you’re exempt from reporting. which I believe is what he says he has. Pretty sure he has an account, it would be pretty impractical to not have a bank account.
tam1MI
A better idea would be to have a moment of silence for the innocent victims of the Gaza conflict. No chance then that the MSM could twist the speaker’s words to get their desired “Dems Are Anti-Semitic” narrative or that a speaker could go off script and wreck Kamala’s night. It would be especially effective if such a moment was called for by Harris during her speech.
TBone
@Dangerman: 😁
BR
@Kay:
Ugh, this is becoming a mess. The point is this is not a place for everyone to vent their policy wishes.
I saw a statement from the uncommitted delegates complaining that anti-choice Republicans got to speak but not them. Well the anti-choice Republicans did *not* get to say on stage that anti-choice positions are good. The most they were allowed to show disagreement with Harris was to say “I don’t agree with Harris on all the issues, but I’m supporting her because she’s the best candidate.” Can the uncommitted folks do that? And if they did, would they just piss off the more activist end of their own coalition who will think they sold out?
TBone
@Kay: 👍🤩
TBone
@tam1MI: we’re not doing carefully meek this year.
Go big, go bold, or go home.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@SatanicPanic: It would be impractical not to have a bank account. I know a lot of people with some pretty curious financial arrangements, though. It can be made to work.
There’s also the old stereotype of conspiracists hiding all their money in their mattress…
MomSense
@Scout211:
Too bad trump’s investigators are still in Hawaii digging up dirt on Obama’s birth.
I don’t remember that they ever came back to report on all the stuff they found. I mean you wouldn’t believe all the stuff they found. Isn’t that what he said like 12 years ago?
Omnes Omnibus
The online left’s reaction to AOC’s speech gives us a hint.
tam1MI
It’s worth noting here that some folks literally cannot afford to have a bank account due to onerous fees the banks inflict on low balance accounts. A problem that Elizabeth Warren has been pointing out and proposing solutions to for years now.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
It is that lack of believability that probably stopped them from issuing a report. Under the acceptable norm for self-awareness, but not completely lacking.
SatanicPanic
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Sure, but Johnson really does have an account:
Trivia Man
@SatanicPanic: One story speculated his income goes into an account managed by his church and they disburse to him. Funny, I’d think such an unusual situation like “i gave bank account” would attract some actual investigating. 🤷🏽♀️
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@tam1MI: That was SatanicPanic. I forgot to put it in a blockquote. But this is also a good point.
Still, I imagine Johnson has enough income where this shouldn’t be a major concern for him, personally.
Jackie
Tis only one poll, but for our hand wringers, something to ponder…
I’m a glass half full optimist, soooo 🤞🏻
TBone
@SatanicPanic: it’s a safe deposit box stuffed with gold bars.
BR
@Omnes Omnibus:
I don’t really care too much if the online left is pissed off — nothing will be good enough, by definition, because they openly say that opposition to power in all its forms is their stance.
I care more about whether uncommitted will go back to the communities in Michigan and tell them not to vote for Harris because this was some huge snub or something, or, if allowed on stage, whether they will actually stay on the team. They haven’t shown themselves so far to be good team players like AOC, where they have policy disagreements but know how to work together towards a goal. This is a strategic question, and what they want — safety of the people in Gaza — is not going to happen if Trump wins. The question is whether they — the political types, not ordinary people — can bury their personal differences and be team players.
TBone
@Jackie: 🤩🎶
https://youtu.be/QtODwEuDAvI?si=8ExYdMsrRUQHaIDk
tam1MI
Oooops, sorry about the misattribution!
And you don’t want to know what Autocorrect tried to put in for that last word… 😉
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@SatanicPanic: Good catch. I should’ve known that any follow-up to the previous attention-getting media discussion wouldn’t be pushed to the tops of the news feeds.
Thanks for pointing this out, I will update my facts accordingly.
Chris
@satby:
Just heard from somebody in Montgomery County (I live in PG) that they’ve been getting warnings from the nearest school about gang activity in their area and drivers getting pushed off the road and crime generally being up.
I have no knowledge of whether crime in this county specifically is down or up, but – call it PG County bias – color me skeptical.
Belafon
@tam1MI: If they’re actually going to acknowledge it, they should let someone talk. But what they can do is be allowed to pick the person who makes the speech.
Someone really needs to comment on the fact that Israel has the right to defend itself and yet acknowledge that Netanyahu has gone too far. All of this is complicated by the fact that the ego of Netanyahu has to be massaged while they are trying to get him to agree to a ceasefire. And then we have to worry whether Hamas will agree to it.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@tam1MI: Autocorrect is a menace. I have frequent frustrations where it tries to replace my real but uncommon words. Generally the word it chooses has no hope of fitting my sentence. I don’t know what it thinks it is accomplishing.
SatanicPanic
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Glad to be of service!
tam1MI
There is also the delicate question of which speaker would end up getting bumped so the Uncommitted crowd could get their way…
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@tam1MI: OMG that actually was me anyway. I need a nap.
sixthdoctor
@Jackie: I know Harris is putting together a good team of lawyers, but I hope Allred is as well. I can’t see how Texas will certify a close Democratic win, or a solid one for that matter.
schrodingers_cat
Why should the Democrats give a speaking slot to a group that calls their nominee, Killer Kamala and Holocaust Harris? It is a strange ask. Earn my vote crowd is entitled.
tam1MI
It can’t even figure out what tense a sentence is in! That should be simple to do!
Kay
@BR:
I don’t mean to be a jerk but have you been following this? This is not random, any speaker. This is an elected Democrat from MI who has a vetted speech. Uncommitted submitted lots of names – all were rejected.
An American family with a Hamas hostage just came out in support of her speaking.
This should not be a hard call for Democrats. Whoever made this boneheaded decision to ban this speaker needs to unmake it. The absolute least we can do is recognize Palestinian Americans who have lost family members. It shouldn’t even be a question. She should have spoken the same night as the American hostage family. She is as much an American as they are.
I hope they reconsider.
Matt McIrvin
@BR: I think there’s a level of outrage, even in a righteous cause, where the desire to punish outweighs the desire to actually get the better outcome. Especially when one senses betrayal from a supposed ally. Young passionate people are prone to it, as are people who have lost hope for anything actually good. If the Democrats and the Republicans are both going to get you horror and death in Gaza, why not go for a Trump win to punish the “friends” who stabbed you in the back? Your cause is fucked either way, might as well hurt the people who most recently hurt you.
While I don’t approve of it, I understand the feeling.
BR
@tam1MI:
That isn’t as big of an issue — there’s lots of fluff in the schedule. They could have uncommitted speak in the late afternoon or something.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@schrodingers_cat: Citations?
TBone
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: here have some of my cinnamon french toast (farm fresh eggs cooked in farm fresh butter) and breakfast sausage, all covered in real maple syrup. It’ll knock yer ass out which is why I made a big breakfast today – need a nap after these late nights and so I can stay up again tonight!
Ishiyama
The TV clowns keep talking about Coach Walz’s appeal to football-oriented conservative white men, but nobody is asking if his coaching background will help increase support from all the other ethnic groups that love the game.
schrodingers_cat
@Ishiyama: If you are not a white person voting R you are invisible to the clown show that is our media.
ETA: You have to vote R or actively criticize Ds to get media attention. Those are the only requirements. Sorry I don’t make the rules.
Geoduck
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: GOP bench? It’s not like the Shiatgibbon is going to go away after losing.
BR
@Ishiyama:
They all still live in the Reagan era of white working class men who are disaffected Dems. I think this campaign is our chance to reset the political narratives for good.
Captain C
@MomSense:
Hey, if I could get TCFG to fund my retirement in Hawaii, I might just do it as long as the checks keep clearing. “No, Donald sir, we’re just about to crack this wide open [just like we were 10 years ago]…”
That’s correct. I wouldn’t believe any of it.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@TBone: That does sound amazing. Now I might surprise my roomies with breakfast this weekend. My birthday is coming up, I’ll need a treat.
Kay
@schrodingers_cat:
Since you are apparently unfamiliar with the facts of this, the proposed speaker is an elected Dem from MI who supports Harris.
Palestinian American groups submitted several speakers well in advance -all were rejected.
Ken
@Ishiyama: Which is odd, because I’m pretty sure that in the ongoing slow-motion national divorce, the Democrats got football sometime in the last couple years.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Kay: Facts, schmacts. The left must be disparaged. Where are your priorities?
Kay
@BR:
No one is asking “uncommitted” to speak. This is a specific Dem lawmaker with a vetted speech.
She is Palestinian and would be the only Palestinian speaker on any night.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Chris: I live in Southeast MoCo – in Takoma Park, which borders on PG County, features lots of affordable garden apartments, so about as low rent as MoCo gets. I have not heard tell or seen any evidence of gang activity or people being forced off the road. Can’t speak to crime rates but I feel perfectly safe even on walks through the Barrio which starts only a few blocks from my house. So I call BS.
tam1MI
Never mind. Asked and answered.
BR
@Kay:
Yeah, I think it was a mistake putting the family of the hostage on stage. I would have preferred to just keep Gaza out of the convention, not because it’s “right” to do so, but because we don’t need that right now when the singular goal of the convention is to get Harris in front of low-info / hesitant voters who don’t know her.
I haven’t been following the names of the specific possible speakers. But honestly the campaign would have to be really really sure this is someone who isn’t going to go off script and create a “Dems in Disarray” moment. The pressure on them from the movement to start going off on Israel or attacking Biden’s policies would be immense. It’d have to be a rock-solid team player who speaks to the pain but doesn’t go into anything policy-wise that creates a media opening.
Kay
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
Well, it starts to get risky when you blow off the UAW AND 80k Arab American voters.
We’ll see if negotiations lead to cooler heads prevailing and they Let her speak.
Nettoyeur
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Does Pastor Mike get his fat salary and expenses paid in cash? Does he not have a Visa card?
SatanicPanic
@BR: If they are going to invite one side I don’t see the issue in inviting the other. But who knows, maybe they’ve calculated it’s better not to.
Kay
@BR:
oh like the Republicans are “r rock solid” team players
I’ve seen this movie before with Obama. All the moderate Republicans are going to screw us. They always do. I’ll take one Democrat over 50 Liz Cheneys.
BR
@Kay:
I think you’re mistaking what I mean by team player. I mean *on the stage in the moment* team players. I don’t care what never-Trumpers do after the convention. They have no policy influence, and they weren’t on stage to talk policy. They went on stage to say — and I watched their speeches — “I know Trump, he sucks. I’m a Republican and don’t agree with Harris on everything, but she’s the right candidate for people like me.”
rikyrah
Nothing but personal. The audacity of those asking Black people to throw away their votes, or not vote at all. Just an offense to Black History.
emptywheel (cheek) (@emptywheel) posted at 9:40 AM on Thu, Aug 22, 2024:
One thing I learned last night–maybe he said this in Jan6 hearings and I missed this–is that Bennie Thompson’s father never cast a vote bc of Jim Crow. He talked about why that made Jan6 so much worse for him.
https://t.co/sSOZi1JUv7
(https://x.com/emptywheel/status/1826630534614978822?t=789srveOgCpvRZK3xQzacA&s=03)
Mike E
@BR: a big tent is just that, and walking around on eggshells is weak. The press are vultures so them not using whatever dirt on Harris/Walz, real or imagined, is never going to be an avoidable thing in 2024 A.D.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: We lived in a small starter home in Wheaton (when they extended the Red Line, our house was basically at the end of the line). We were seriously considering a move to Takoma Park, we love that area, but instead ended up moving to the Philly area for my work.
Is the “House of Musical Traditions” still there?
HumboldtBlue
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: Ah, but it was a PERFECT example of laziness among the punditry. At least the pundit wasn’t saying that Walz is like Bobby Knight because both of them are coaches. So, I guess, we take the win? :)
tam1MI
I do have to admit, there is a fine irony in the fact that, so far, the only person at the convention who has spoken in sympathy to the Gaza protestors is the man they smeared as “Genocide Joe”.
MomSense
@BR:I think that the free palestine umbrella has enough of a following AND it is such a significant humanitarian crisis that it needs to be addressed. Ever go to a town/school/religious institution/work meeting and see a bunch of people outside the meeting, who didn’t talk in the meeting, engaged in intense conversation? The meetings outside the meetings often spell trouble with a capital T. Let’s find a way to bring dissent and differing opinions inside our big tent.
Many years ago my son was in the hospital. He was only 2 so I spent that 10 days with him. I was up at night because he was so sick and the only thing on the tv was Bill Clinton and the then president of China taking questions from the press.
Bill gave one of the simplest and best explanations for an open society. He said it is because we are confident in our democracy and our ability to discuss and solve big issues that we don’t suppress speech. Apologies to Bill for this – he really was eloquent.
I see the Democrats really turning a corner and growing in our confidence. Let’s acknowledge that this is tough and that we disagree and that we can do that and still be Democrats and still share values. Ignoring it will not make it go away.
The statement Kamala made following her meeting with Netanyahu was excellent. We can do this. We are big and bold and confident.
TBone
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: 👍 we rarely eat big breakfast at our ages but ya gotta say to HELL with moderation once in a while! Celebrate! Happy anniversary of your birth, I hope you have a rockstar day when it gets here!
BR
@tam1MI:
And I doubt that they have given any credit to him for doing so.
What I’ve been seeing lately is an explicit goalpost shifting saying that Biden is not sincere about wanting a ceasefire, so now the goal is an arms embargo. Which don’t get me wrong, is what should be done, but Harris is most certainly not in charge of that. Biden pretty clearly is running mideast foreign policy with his (meh) natsec team. He would have to come out with that policy before Harris could, unless we want lots of stories about 1) how Harris has no influence on the administration or 2) how she is fighting with Biden.
schrodingers_cat
@rikyrah: Agreed completely! I also don’t see how throwing away one’s vote helps the people in Gaza. All it does is help Trump get elected.
JML
@Kay: the problem is you and “uncommitted” don’t just want to highlight a Palestinian US legislator, you want US policy as it relates to Israel, Gaza, and the Middle East to be changed right now at the DNC and for Harris to embrace a drastically different course than the Biden administration, right now.
but as noted before “uncommitted” is less than 1% of the delegation, and the last reporting I have is their delegate petition is maybe 5%. And the Harris campaign and DNC staff know that this is an extremely divisive issue that evokes high levels of passion and intemperate statements even from people with good intent. With a media aching to jump on a “democrats in disarray” story, where’s the benefit in giving them one? Especially when it won’t actually help end the death and destruction in the region.
I suspect the Harris campaign will chart a different course on this issue than Biden has, but it will be very carefully considered, deeply nuanced, and she’s going to be cautious not to undermine any potential progress that might be made while she’s still a candidate. The DNC isn’t a great place for nuance, subtlety, or complexity especially as it relates to the most complicated geo-political region on the planet.
TBone
@Ken: ❤️😆
trollhattan
@HumboldtBlue: Walz has had an outsized impact on the VP pick compared to any other in my lifetime. It’s kind of startling TBH. [Okay, there is Spiro Agnew to contemplate.] Guessing the fantastically accelerated/condensed campaign is one factor, the actual principles involved being the other.
Catching lightning in a bottle remains mostly a dream.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@TBone: No doubt. I have plans for hockey with my old high school friends and dinner with the family.
Gonna try to get my roomies into an escape room for a belated home celebration next week.
And thank you.
Kent
Always project with them isn’t it? Of course he was talking about Trump wasn’t he?!?
TBone
@BR: 👍 we’re welcoming them to give one speech per, to inspire others like them, not suggesting cabinet positions in our administration for them!
BR
@MomSense:
Yeah, I agree with all that, I think it’s a question of time, place, and approach. Is the convention the time and place for potentially rancorous debate on such an issue? Not sure that it is. Like I keep saying, it would be an *anomaly* for this convention — nobody else has done this so far this week — to have someone go on stage advocating for policy positions that are their own and not the campaign’s.
If they can come to an agreement with whomever is the designated representative for uncommitted to do the mirror image of the hostage family, that’d be fine — speak to the pain. And they would get bonus points for, like the hostage family did, speaking to the pain on both sides (though I think the suffering is vastly disproportionately among Gazans).
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
OK, I’m gonna drop the sarcastic veneer here. You are absolutely right.
Chris
@Belafon:
And by the fact that Netanyahu has all but openly said that one of his biggest considerations in this war is helping throw the American election to Trump. It’s no accident that the Haniyeh assassination happened right after Biden et al said they were hopeful that a ceasefire was right around the corner.
That’s been by far the biggest sheer insanity of this entire thing: we’re eagerly passing oil to an arsonist so he can throw it on the fire he’s trying to burn us all down with. And evidently the bulk of the party is either completely okay with this, or has no idea what to do about it.
Jackie
@sixthdoctor: Not gonna let you rain on my parade.
Glass half full!😊
TBone
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: well done on the planning! That does indeed call for a big breakfast treat of sustenance!
Belafon
@TBone: All things in moderation, including moderation.
Citizen Alan
@Chris: Hell, Bush senior was known For verbal gaffes as well. Anybody here old enough to remember the Nitty Gritty Great Big Bird Band?
TBone
@MomSense: ❤️❤️❤️
columbusqueen
@Kay: Who is it?
BR
@Chris:
Biden needs to help Harris on this one — he needs to embrace the Israeli centrists who are fleeing from Netanyahu, and drive a wedge there and say that no more weapons until the centrists are in charge of military strategy and human rights are respected. But his natsec folks seem stuck in their ways.
TBone
@Belafon: 😁😍
Kent
Israel and Palestine have basically been in some sort of constant conflict since 1948. And the conflicts in the region go much deeper than that.
Somehow I doubt they are going to solve the issue at the DNC. It will only start solving itself when majorities on both sides start wanting peace more than conflict.
Belafon
@Kay: And it gets risky when the (how many) Jews get angry about it. I have seen it other places I comment at, where those I think are pretty moderate get visibly agitated in their replies when the focus shifts from October 7th.
And yet we’re the one of the two parties that are trying to figure out how to help the people (not the leadership) on both sides.
Mike E
@trollhattan: I would rack this up to a mature patience, another way of being confident despite the urgency of an 11 week timeframe. Staid observers of political rollouts are flabbergasted at the measured, almost casual gestures displayed by the administration and the Harris Walz campaign. It fucks with their worn-out narratives.
Geminid
@Chris: I think the timing of Haniyeh’s assasination was unrelated to Biden’s statement. The Israelis have been gunning for Haniyah ever since October 7. There were reasons Israel would not strike him in Qatar, where he spent most of his time. When Haniyeh made his trip to Teheran for the new President’s inauguration, the Israelis finally had their shot and they took it.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@BR:
He’s the one in charge of them. He’s the commander-in-chief. He presumably can overrule them if he’s inclined. Biden has agency
tam1MI
The UAW is not going to abandon the Democratic Party. That is an empty threat.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Geminid:
The US should not have allowed Israel to do that. By doing so, they’ve risked a wider regional war with Iran
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@tam1MI: Seems less like a threat and more like something that can hurt at the margins in a place where the margins are already tight.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Did we become the boss of Israel and I missed it?
louc
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
There was a shooting in the Back of the Yards neighborhood that injured six, killed one. You know, a neighborhood some 5 or 6 miles away.
Dana Millbank, of all people, had a great column about the protests and the difficulty he had finding. I guess someone did burn a flag after dark.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
Being a close ally, I’d assume they’d share their plans with us. If they didn’t, there need to be consequences for blindsiding us. They are destroying our credibility and risking wider war
Plus, we’re the global superpower providing a backstop for them, and they’re not
Mike E
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: heh, here we go again! Joe Biden, much like Barack Obama, is all things to some people. But please, insist on this one weird trick™ to solve millenia length conflicts!
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@louc: Anything that happens anywhere near political activity unsanctioned by Republicans is because of that political activity. Correlation being causation and rectal withdrawals being logic, after all.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Share plans? Maybe. I’d suspect often but not always.
Israel giving us veto power over their plans? Never.
Belafon
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: A lot of people see two things:
So the question becomes why can’t we use that leverage against Israel? We know we have to supply both countries with weapons, but we ought to have some leverage, at least theoretically.
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): That strike was the kind of thing that Israel does not tell the US about in advance, and the US prefers it that way.
But I do not think the US even condemned the attack. Some would say that this was because the Biden administration was afraid of Israel, but my take is that Biden and his people were fed up with Hamas’s self-interested and nihilistic negotiating strategy.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Belafon: Well, there aren’t the decades of policy behind the Ukrainian transfers like there are with Israel.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Mike E:
The US government could enforce the Leahy Act, for example
Chris
@BR:
True, but as you yourself pointed out, that ship sailed when we decided to put hostages’ families front and center on the DNC stage.
TBone
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: heh
Baud
@Chris:
That ship didn’t sail. Those are American hostages.
Chris
@Baud:
The question wasn’t where the hostages are from. The question was whether the entire Gaza issue is contentious enough within the party that we shouldn’t call attention to it as the DNC.
If you bring hostages’ families on stage, you’ve decided that the answer is “no.”
Mike E
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I suppose anything is on the table but Bibi is basically Trump trying everything he can to stay in power (including funding Hamas) to avoid a Putin-esque empire collapse. We are witnessing a messy endgame in a fucked up region of the world.
Baud
@Chris:
Couldn’t disagree more. Americans matter to an American political party. That doesn’t trigger some obligation to air the issue generally.
Chief Oshkosh
@Almost Retired: I’ve lived in a few metro areas over the years, all with perimeters (ring roads). Starting sometime in the 90s, every acquaintance I had who lived outside the perimeter was convinced that inside the perimeter was a war zone, created by liberal policies and executed by The Blahs and other POC.
Limpballs and Fox did a real number on our country.
But you know what? All of those acquaintances had functioning TV remotes, and later, functioning keyboards. At some level, they CHOSE to be brainwashed. I don’t have a lot patient with them any more.
brantl
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: Weird, too. I’m just sayin’ .
Ruckus
@Shalimar:
I’m reminded that SFB and Vance are basically slime, because SFB couldn’t rescue anything.
Including himself.
Actually it seems both of them are good at creating situations around themselves that require rescue though.
Steve LaBonne
I always hesitate to wade into I/P discussions, but my understanding is that the ask is for a vetted speech, explicitly calling for unity behind Harris, by a Palestinian-American Democratic elected official. I can’t see the wisdom behind saying no to that. My opinion, worth what you paid for it.
brantl
@Ken: Nobody’s going to faint on JV’s couch, and give him a twofer. You faint on his couch, he thinks it’s a menage a trois.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Yup still there! I took my niece there when she visited from VT a couple weeks ago. Well technically she’s my cousin’s child so I think my first cousin once removed, technically speaking. She plays guitar and bouzuoki of all things. She’s in a Celtic band with some other college classmates.
Baud
@Steve LaBonne:
I’ll support whatever the Dems decide, but we don’t know what’s in the whole speech, do we?
Steve LaBonne
@Baud: I can only tell you what’s being reported (eg. in the Guardian) which of course I have no way to verify.
Belafon
@Baud: And they can’t make them stick to it.
Baud
@Steve LaBonne:
No worries. I can’t judge without knowing what the speech actually says.
If course, even if it’s innocuous, I suppose they have to consider whether someone else will ask for a chance to respond.
Chris
@Baud:
So we’re giving air time to the families of Americans killed by Israelis too, right?
Baud
@Belafon:
True, but I don’t know this person so I have no reason to assume untrustworthiness.
Steve LaBonne
@Baud: That to me would be an easy “nope”.
Baud
@Chris:
If Americans are being held hostage by Israelis and their families want to talk about it, I’m OK giving them time.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@brantl: It seems like their whole campaign at this point is a lame childish game of mimicking whatever Dems say about them “I’m rubber you’re glue” style. Pathetic! Sad!
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Belafon: I can only imagine there are some people who would be okay if this *elected Dem official* supporting equitable treatment for Palestine were outfitted with a shock collar in case they went off script.
Chris
@Baud:
But not Americans with relatives who’ve been killed? Yeah, whatever.
Baud
@Chris:
Apples to apples.
Chris
@Chief Oshkosh:
What makes it even crazier is that as the cities gentrify and people who can’t afford them are priced out, not only are the crime issues not what they used to be, but even the ethnic issues that were euphemized as “crime” increasingly aren’t. The white share of DC’s population has been growing again for twenty years, for example.
It really is just “my image of the country was fixed in 1985, and anything that suggests it isn’t still 1985 is a commie lie.”
tam1MI
The timing of this kerfuffle is as hinky as hell. The speaker list for the convention wasn’t thrown together last week, it’s been out there for a while. Yet only now is the Very Online Left getting her up about it. It comes off as them scrambling for a Plan B after their Plan B – massive demonstrations outside the convention leading to 1968 Redux – turned into an utter joke and further exposed their weakness.
Belafon
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: This whole discussion is why events at the DNC are what they are right now.
Chris
@Baud:
“This is too contentious an issue to raise at the DNC. … Okay, but this is different because Americans were affected. … Okay, but these Americans weren’t affected in exactly the same way as those Americans, so it’s different.”
Yeah, right.
Ruckus
@Danielx:
If your running mate was whom jdv’s is, would you want to meet him?
And if so, WHY?
Omnes Omnibus
@Chris: Then we do families of Americans killed by Hamas, right? I am actually agnostic on the advisability of having a Palestinian speaker. It’s effectively a pep rally for Dems. You don’t want anyone you are not convinced will stay onside. OTOH, if she does, it’s victory for the Dems.
Baud
@Chris:
Correct. Different circumstances. Whatever one thinks of the war and the combatants, holding Americans hostage is per se verboten in the eyes of an American political party.
Chris
@Omnes Omnibus:
Oh, I absolutely don’t think it’s advisable to bring up the issue at the DNC in any capacity. Palestinian speakers, families of Americans killed by Israelis, whatever. It’s a terrible idea, because raising the Israel/Palestine issue in any capacity is a terrible idea – one of the benefits of moving on from Biden was being able to put this whole thing behind us because critics within the party, for whatever reason, don’t blame Harris for this the way they do Biden.
But again, that would have to apply on the entire issue. And the ship sailed when we decided to give hostages’ families a stage.
Ruckus
@Ken B:
You do understand that SFB hasn’t learned ANYTHING in the last 60 yrs don’t you?
He thinks he already knows everything.
Which once again proves that he is not fit to ……. well, do anything or be in charge of anything. Including being named president of his 8th grade audio/visual club.
Mike E
@Ruckus: hey!
/10th grade AV club president
Omnes Omnibus
@Chris: On that, I agree with Baud. Live hostages are different. Maybe they shouldn’t be, but that’s a different matter.
karen marie
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: Oh, Vance was vetted. The Trump campaign just didn’t see any problem because they agree with everything he’s said.
Ken
Now I’m wondering whether the invitations to Giles, Grisham, Navarro, et al were made like Starling’s pitch to Lecter in Silence: “You can speak at the lectern for up to five minutes. Under SWAT team surveillance, of course….”
Chris
@Omnes Omnibus:
If you’re saying that the reason they’re up there is specifically because live hostages are a very special kind of victim deserving a very special type of exemption rather than because of who’s holding them hostage and which narrative it fits into, I’m just going to laugh uproariously and leave the issue in peace for the rest of today.
Omnes Omnibus
@Chris: You weren’t around for the Iranian hostages, were you? There’s a reason people made a big deal about the Russian hostage/prisoner release. Go ahead and laugh uproariously. Now, Hamas being a really shitty organization does come into play as well.
Kay
Michigan isn’t just about Harris. Whitmer and Slotkin are speaking tonight.
Sure would help to allow a MI Palestinian on the stage – but I guess we want to make sure we completely alienate Arab Americans in Michigan forever – May they never sully our infomercial convention.
We should invite more Republicans instead. Is Dick Cheney available? Let’s replay the entire War on terror script.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Kay: Heh…
Kay
Can we talk about anti Muslim and anti Palestinian bigotry in the Democratic Party AFTER the election?
Or are they just never allowed to address us again? After all, there’s always an election just around the corner. I don’t see how we can ever safely discuss anything even mildly uncomfortable again.
We might lose! Better to pretend none of it is happening.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Since it all occurs as dogwhistles and refocusing conversation on the oppression of others, most Democrats will be happy to go along pretending they aren’t biased against Muslims and Muslim-coded populations
ETA: Likewise many Democrats are happy to continue enabling the right-wing media that won’t even allow Palestinian interests to be a serious topic for consideration.
MomSense
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s more than a pep rally. The messages, speakers and speeches are meant to reach certain demographics and alleviate concerns that have come up in polling and focus groups. We are looking at a handful of voters in each precinct in swing states deciding the EC winner. Michigan is critical and I do think we have to find a way to address the tragedy that is happening.
tam1MI
Sure, as long we are also allowed to talk about the vile anti-semitism in the ranks of the Gaza movement that they refused to condemn or even distance themselves from.
There’s an old saying about removing the beam from your own eye…
Kay
@tam1MI:
Maybe Elissa Slotkin can talk some sense into whatever cowardly knucklehead made the dumb decision to ban an elected Dem because she’s a Palestinian.
125,000 UAW members in MI.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@tam1MI: I don’t recall Kay saying anything anti-Semitic. This is a prime example of perpetuating the anti-Muslim bigotry by redirecting toward different bigotry and oppression, like I discussed above.
Citizen Alan
@p.a.: At this point, I just respond to people like that by saying, “oh, did your cult leaders tell you to think that?”
opiejeanne
@Eunicecycle: My cousin who lives in the only ugly spot (that I know of) in Wyoming, asked me if my daughters were safe and insisted that Seattle had had so many major fires that there was nothing left. That was a really weird but enlightening conversation for me, and I hope for her. I told her the only fire I knew of was in a trash can, set by a homeless person near Cal Anderson Park and unrelated to any protest. And I was wrong, because I didn’t remember that there were some fires set on Capitol Hill, windows smashed, etc. in a clash with cops. I seem to remember that when the dust settled the rioting and fires were blamed on outsiders there to cause trouble, just like Portland, OR.
Soprano2
@BR: I literally heard a reporter mention “Reagan Democrats” a couple of weeks ago! I thought “Most of those people are dead now, why are you still talking about them?” It’s definitely true that the press still thinks of the white man as the “average” voter.
tam1MI
Empty threat. The UAW stood strong for “Genocide Joe” right up until Biden stepped aside and are standing just as strong for Kamala Harris. They know who is looking out for their interests, and it’s not the Uncommitted crowd who has been loudly boasting about their plans to throw everyone under the Trump bus for months now.
And the threat of the Uncommitted crowd swinging Michigan is proving empty as well. Shri Thanedar in the primaries trounced his pro- Palestinian competitor by 20 points to win a district IN DETROIT.
Kay
@tam1MI:
Two more MI Dem lawmakers in support.
They should reverse and apologize now – it’s only going to get harder as more Democrats come out.
Citizen Alan
@Omnes Omnibus: I I’ve often said that I would give anything to peer into an alternate reality where bernie sanders won not only the 2016 Dem primary but the general election, just so that I could see the exact moment in which the far left turned on him for being a sellout. Probably when he picked a vice presidential running mate, who was to the right of nina turner.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
If you’re not sure where to punch, left is always good. Helps that it also usually means down.
Geminid
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I have not seen Kay say anything remotely anti-Semitic either; or for that matter, anything hateful toward Israelis as people.The leaders and their actions are a different story.
Kay
@tam1MI:
Theyre honoring a former Tea Party member who voted with Trump 90% of the time. That person gets a speaking slot.
This isn’t about loyalty. It’s about not allowing Palestinians to speak. Ever.
Citizen Alan
Bold of you to assume that the “safety of the people in gaza” is what they actually want as opposed to helping trump win for the benefit of putin or, at a minimum, just getting their pretty faces on tv.
tam1MI
I wasn’t referring to her specifically, but the movement in general. People on this very blog were warning that the anti-semites free riding on their cause ( and in some cases, shamefully, leading their case) was going to kill them on optics unless they got a handle on it and quick, and the issue was handwaved away as of no importance. Now what we warned about has come to pass and all the Uncommitted crowd can think to do is play victim. Which after months of heavy handed threats against folks who might have been inclined to ally with them is going down about as well as you might expect.
I myself feel that spending a few moments acknowledging the the pain of Palestinian Americans at the convention wouldn’t be a bad idea, but I don’t blame the organizers at all in not trusting any pro- Palestinian speaker not to blurt out something like “From the river to the sea!”. The Uncommitted folks have done nothing to earn that trust.
Kay
@Geminid:
Letting a Palestinian Democrat speak would be … awkward for everyone. It’s another thing we’re pretending isn’t happening because we’re “fighting fascism” We’re going to talk about this slaughter sometime after the election, but not too close to the election after that.
Slotkin should boycott. She’s smart and she’s running ahead of the Party.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Geminid: Me neither. And that’s the point. People not perpetuating Anti-Semitism should not have some nebulous others who do show that trait thrown in their face to counter good faith attempts to discuss better outcomes for Palestinians.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Kay: I believe New Hampshire put forward a Palestinian member of their delegation to speak during the roll call.
tam1MI
Welp, looks like the only thing to do is to bounce Kamala Harris and Tim Walz off the ticket and replace them with Rashida Tlaib and Ilan Omar forthwith!
Somewhere in California, Joe Biden is laughing his ass off right about now
Litano
@tam1MI: This is a pretty egregious mischaracterization of Uncommitted. The leaders of the movement have been clear that they understand Trump is a greater evil. Again and again, they’ve emphasized that they think the Biden and now Harris campaign’s hardline stance on Israel is not morally incorrect but also electorally incorrect, since this war is now so incredibly unpopular that previously ironclad conventional thinking about the political dangers of even marginal concessions to Palestinian humanity has been turned on its head. You can disagree with that conclusion if you’d like, but the people who Uncommitted sent as delegates have all been clear that they’re so disturbed at the course this administration is taking because they think it increases the chances of a Trump win.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@tam1MI: Sorry, all I hear is “whatabout whatabout whatabout…?”
What about Anti-Semitism on the ostensibly pro-Israel side? You know it’s there too. ::glances meaningfully at especially Republicans::
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@tam1MI:
Oh come on, that’s a ridiculous strawman and you know it
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Absurd, even.
Tony Jay
Fourteen words to tell the same old story about in groups and out groups and Othering. Gets really, really boring the longer the record plays.
Geminid
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Many Republicans only like Jewish people when they live 5,000 miles away. They are more ambivalent about the Jewish people who live among them.
Supporters of Israel really need to take a close look at the “America First” movement, especially its rightward component. Those people would leave Israel on its own, and they are not shy about saying that. And many of them are every bit as anti-Semitic as the worst of the “pro-Palestinian” protesters.
Litano
I think this is the optimistic view. The pessimistic view is that it wasn’t a mistake, that Harris’s people fully understand the optics of bringing the family of a hostage on stage without also giving any speaking time to a Palestinian, and they’re doing it anyways to signal to Israel and AIPAC that Harris that nothing is going to change under Harris. This is part of the problem I wrote about in my last (very late) comment in the previous thread, where I said that
I’m personally a cynic about the idea that anything would meaningfully change here under a Harris administration, but I think she could do a better job of signaling that a change is at least possible to placate voters who are rightfully pissed about Gaza. One way you could do this that I mention in that comment is by making inside-baseball commitments that lots of Pro-Palestine voters would appreciate but that the news media would struggle to whip up into existentially dangerous anti-Harris stories, especially in this environment where the general public has an unprecedented level of sympathy for Palestinians– restoring funding to UNRWA as soon as it’s legal to do so, revoking the US security council veto on Palestinian full membership to the UN, etc etc. Obviously it’s a balancing act, but skilled political communicators understand these nuances and it’s hard to see the total disregard for even pretense as anything other than a deliberate rhetorical decision in its own right.
tam1MI
Not true. Support for Palestine has been falling (support for Israel has been falling as well, but not enough to affect their already substantial majority). This is an especially alarming development in light of the fact that support for Palestine was never very strong to begin with and that it is falling among people of college age. The tactics of the Uncommitted crowd are backfiring and they need to change.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
The tactics of the unchecked Israel side you mean. Attacks tend to bring down both sides but the attacked side more, so what you say about the polling makes sense.
It’s still bigotry.
Steve LaBonne
@Litano: I wish I believed there actually are a lot of such voters. If there were we wouldn’t be having this discussion, because it would be obvious that Democratic policy needs to move in the direction that I myself consider morally correct and want to happen. But the uncommitted vote in the primaries was not that impressive by historical standards and the movement made a serious strategic error by promising protests on a scale that didn’t come anywhere close to materializing. In the end politics is all about FDR’s “now make me do it”. They can’t, so they’re reduced to begging. I still think giving a slot to a trusted, properly vetted Palestinian speaker is the right thing to do.
tam1MI
Not going to argue that point because I can admit that, yeah, anti-Muslim bigotry is a thing, but I am talking tactics here. I think we can all agree that the situation of the Palestinians in Gaza is dire, that is why I believe that the people here in the US purporting to speak for them cannot afford to waste time and resources on counterproductive tactics. They just don’t have that luxury.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Seems to me that people siding against a cause will often latch on to the worst fringe examples they can find of supporters of that cause or even non supporters that opportunity allows to tie wrongly to the cause and then tarnish the whole movement with those outliers. The media, in particular, never fails to do this with anything vaguely left-oriented.
See also: BLM.
Litano
@tam1MI: This is polling from March. The war has changed a lot since then, and polling has changed to reflect it. Hell, there’s even polling in March that tends the other way– take this CEPR poll showing that the statement “The US should stop weapons shipments to Israel until Israel discontinues its attacks on the people of Gaza” had a 62-14 favorable split with Dems.
In April, we had results showing that 7 in 10 likely voters supported a permanent ceasefire. This result is noteworthy, especially combined with other polling indicating that a majority of Americans disapprove of Israel’s war conduct– it suggests that there’s a window to use our leverage to push for an end to the war and justify that action by pointing out Israel’s excesses. This same polling also suggested that a plurality of voters and a majority of Democrats thought Israel was committing genocide in Gaza, a crime against humanity that conventional wisdom would tell you is relatively unpopular (in genocide’s defense, I have not seen polling on its favorables recently).
In May, we had results from 5 swing states showing that Biden would gain more independent and undecided voters than he would lose by withholding weapons from Israel. There are some other interesting findings here about the coalition-maintaining elements here; for instance, 57% of undecided voters who voted for Biden in 2020 say they would be more likely to vote for him in 2024 if he pledged to withhold weapons.
It’s easy to dismiss some of these as financially motivated push polling (although CEPR and Gallup both look pretty compelling to me), but even pro-Israeli pollsters have found similar trends here. When the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs polled American Jews about the war in Gaza, they found that over 51% supported Biden freezing arms if Israel invaded Rafah. Some sectors of Israeli news actually got quite worked up over this result in their normal bashing of diaspora Jews, since it was yet another data point they could use to paint us as traitors to the faith.
Remember, all of these results are coming in a media environment that has been incredibly pro-Israeli and in a political landscape where leaders and electeds from both parties have maintained an almost lockstep consensus that Israel is not conducting a genocide, that the war is actually about returning the hostages and “defeating Hamas,” and that any talk of conditioning aid is beyond the pale. Much like other issues that the Dems have either only recently learned to campaign on after decades of hiding from their own shadow or belatedly embraced in light of shifts in American public opinion, there’s a clear electoral vacuum here of popular opinion that’s just not represented in the political environment.
Litano
For whatever it’s worth, we got copy for one of the three speeches that Uncommitted submitted for consideration. I know some people will find it unoffensive and others will find it completely unacceptable. Another line I’ve seen here is that Uncommitted sprung this on the Harris campaign out of nowhere in a way that would require bumping another speaker, but it’s worth noting that the Uncommitted delegates first made this request around two months months ago and then released word of that move 3 weeks ago because they kept getting blown off. This was not an eleventh hour surprise.
UPDATE: Wow, I had not realized (per Mother Jones’s reporting) that Harris’s people turned down the speech without even seeing it. That is pretty incredible if accurate
Steve LaBonne
@Litano: Personally I would edit out the “funding for endless wars” line, not that I don’t think the military budget is super bloated, but that it’s a controversial point that has little to do with the topic (weapons aid to Israel is a rounding error compared to the Pentagon budget as a whole and saving money is not the reason to reduce or eliminate it). Other than that I like it and I certainly think the campaign should look at it and work with her.
raven
@TBone: If you are surprised by this you haven’t heard of Max Cleland and Saxby Chambliss!
Kayla Rudbek
@Almost Retired: it’s going to be interesting riding the C&O canal trail over Labor Day weekend. This will be our fourth time since the 1990s and it goes through rural areas of Maryland and West Virginia. I think some of the small town diners we ate at last time may be out of business, although the one in the decommissioned church is still open. I haven’t seen too many reports of trouble on the trail, though.
tam1MI
3 weeks ago, Joe Biden had just stepped down and Kamala Harris was busy trying to get her campaign up and running almost from scratch. My guess is that they left what had already been planned for the convention in place, except for switching around. Joe Biden’s and Kamala Harris’s speaking slots, for obvious reasons.
As for the speech itself, it looks fine to me. And bravo for whoever thought to release it to the press.
Chris T.
@Chris:
Yeah, I used to live in Monkey and then PG county MD (although this was like four decades ago or more) and the Montgomery Co people had a lot of “ooga booga PG has black people it’s scary” going on back then. (I went to, and worked at, U of MD College Park for most of the 1980s, before I got yanked into the tech world in the SFBayArea.)
brantl
I think your second mention of Vance was meant to be Walz?
brantl
@jonas: He picks his nose.