Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

If you can’t control your emotions, someone else will.

If ‘weird’ was the finish line, they ran through the tape and kept running.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

“Just close your eyes and kiss the girl and go where the tilt-a-whirl takes you.” ~OzarkHillbilly

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

This country desperately needs a functioning fourth estate.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Late Night Open Thread: Just Another Trump Desecration

Late Night Open Thread: Just Another Trump Desecration

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Late Night Open Thread: Just Another Trump Desecration

(Nick Anderson via GoComics.com)

From the reporter who broke the story originally:

And, of course, TFG’s loyal GOP “legislators” were in on the grift all along. Mr. Pierce, at Esquire:

I hate to keep dwelling on the former president*’s tasteless fiasco at Arlington National Cemetery, but… oh hell, who am I kidding? I’m wallowing in the sumbitch and intend to do so as long as others perseverated on Hillary Rodham Clinton’s server practices. Or as long as there are New Developments. And, yes, there are New Developments, including Speaker Moses’ alleged involvement in greasing the skids for the whole business. From, god help us, The Daily Caller:

Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee Rep. Michael McCaul explained to the Caller that he was contacted by Gold Star parents Darin Hoover and Kelly Barnett, the parents of SSGT Taylor Hoover. Hoover and Barnett told him that Arlington Cemetery was giving the Gold Star parents of the U.S. service members killed at Abbey Gate a hard time about coordinating a ceremony with Trump on the anniversary of their deaths. McCaul immediately reached out to Johnson to ask for his assistance with the matter and the Caller is told he continued to track it until it was fixed.

Reader Interactions

177Comments

  1. 1.

    Danielx

    You have to wonder about Team Trump’s grasp on this whole politics thing. They don’t seem to be very good at it.

  2. 2.

    opiejeanne

    This just keeps going and going, with new revelations every day. They are idiots, and they are weird.

  3. 3.

    WV Blonde

    For almost 10 years – ever since that stupid, fateful ride down the escalator – how many thousands of times has someone somewhere written that their father/uncle/cousin/grandfather who fought in WWII was spinning in their grave at the thought of this Nazi wannabe as president?

    I think their ghosts are fighting back.

  4. 4.

    Ruckus

    One has to wonder if any plain old citizen of this country can be such an ass to humans who died in war for this country.

    Oh wait, we’ve got one that seems to attempt this most every day, because he thinks his shit doesn’t stink.

    Well it doesn’t. It reeks to as high as it can be measured. This pompous jackass djt thinks he’s the best human to walk the earth. But he’s at absolute minimum, a lot of million places below pure shithead. Of all the citizens who have served, men and women, and the ones that died for their country, this is one that had some made up bullshit medical non issue and who lied about it to keep from serving his country. And he thinks he deserves accolades for his total assholyness. He deserves a cell, on a mostly deserted island to lay on the dirt floor of, till his last day.

    Just one veteran’s opinion.

  6. 6.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Danielx: They’re not. Their modus operandi is to lie, cheat and steal. Republicans are useless when its a level playing field.

    But, as smarter BJers have observed before, they never had to be competent because the GOP could always count on the MSM as backup.

    I think what makes this situation different is no matter how hard Trump’s spin doctors are trying to make this debacle go away, it’s impossible to dump that obscene photograph of Donnie giving a thumbs up at the graveside in the memory hole.

  9. 9.

    Scout211

    Rolling Stone (web archive version)

    In an interview with NBC News following Thursday’s rally, Trump was asked whether his campaign should have published videos and photos from his visit.

    Trump claimed that he didn’t know “anything about” the use of the images on his campaign social media. “We have a lot of people, we have TikTok people,” he said, “you know, we’re leading the internet.”

    Pressed on it again, Trump suggested the parents of the deceased service members he had accompanied may have been responsible for distributing the videos and photos.

    “I don’t know what the rules and regulations are. I don’t know who did it,” Trump said. “It could have been them — it could have been the parents.”

    This is not true. Informed his campaign published videos from the visit on TikTok, he said, “I really don’t know anything about it.”

    There you have it.  He really doesn’t know anything about it.  Really.  He doesn’t know what happened, what the rules are, who is to blame or why he was even there in the first place.

    Donald Trump only knows about Donald Trump. That’s all he knows about and all he cares about. Anything else is someone else’s responsibility and someone else’s blame.

    I cannot believe that so many voters still plan to vote for him.

  10. 10.

    TBone

    What atrocity awaits as Donold tries to “top” his latest stunt attempt at dominance?  He and his sniveling henchmen will keep trying to wrest this matter from the headlines, as they tried with the Florida abortion amendment circus tricks.  You can set your watch to it.

    I’m really looking forward to Sentencing Day in NYC, as well as the headlines and attention focusing on J6 that must surely be coming in light of Jack Smith’s new speaking indictment.

    In the meantime, continuing to rub his nose in this shitty diaper is good strategy.

  11. 11.

    The Thin Black Duke

    I cannot believe that so many voters still plan to vote for him.

    What I can’t believe is the people who Trump just threw under the bus will still vote for him.

  14. 14.

    Mousebumples

    I love the inclusion of VoteVets here. I haven’t served, and while my grandfathers did, I feel uncomfortable telling others how they should feel about a military issue, even (especially?) a “controversial” one like this one.

    But sharing VoteVets images and statements is something I can do!

  15. 15.

    artem1s

    Media was fine letting Trump use Arlington Cemetery as a photo op

    The media aren’t the only ones. The US military and DoD has a long history of allowing GOP politicians to use them as campaign props. Once again, the problem is now they have no control of the beast they helped create. Ask the parents of Pat Tillman how they feel about him being used as a prop to fuel Darth Cheney’s hard-on to start a war with Iraq (and bomb, bomb, bomb Iran).  Mission accomplished I guess.

  16. 16.

    Jay

    Update, T has a couple more tests to go,

    On the bright side, she has the top surgeon for the op, is flying in from Toronto, that in theory is non intrusive*, if the tests go well.

    *butt ,feeding in a probe 

    “Mercan’s” diss Canadian Healthcare.

    Parts of it suck, but when it works, it works well and is free,

    So far, we are out $180, for “doctors notes” required by the employer, (morons).

  20. 20.

    Tony Jay

    @Jay:

    I admire the attitude you and T are approaching this situation with, Jay. It’s shit, but the only way is through. Look after yourself, mate.

  22. 22.

    MagdaInBlack

    @Jay: This “Mercan” has some experience with Canadian Heathcare and so will never “diss” it.

    Like T-bone, I’m hoping for the best and glad to see “top surgeon” in your post.

  25. 25.

    eclare

    @Jay:

    Oh that is wonderful!

    And this Murcan has experience with the NHS, back in 1996 before the Tories ruined it, and was very impressed.

    I was only asked the following in the ER:  name, address, religion.  I guess so they’d know what rites to give, in case.

  26. 26.

    piratedan

    @Danielx: well you have to take into consideration that they KNOW that the majority of the MSM is going to cover for them.  It wasn’t until NPR (which usually isn’t seen as a news breaking source) started getting traffic with it and THEN the Army piled on and went public, that then it kinda sorta had to be covered.  Naturally they pushed the Trump camp version until people started shooting holes in that.  Then they tried to run with “the video will exonerate me” bullshit and that has yet to surface, but strangely his TikTok ad got loaded…. and is out there.  Now with the fact that McCaul and Johnson pressured the Arlington staff to let him, assuring them that DJT would follow the rules, well, now that’s fallen to shit as well since its obvious that DJT had no intention of following them and thot that this would shore up his patriotic street cred.

    Now the Vets are pissed, no exculpatory video is to be seen and it turns out that people in general don’t like having their dead relatives exploited for a campaign video, regardless if they were a sucker or a loser.

    Not sure what new depths can be plumbed, but damn if he doesn’t keep finding them.  It’s getting to be 50/50 if he shows up to the debate that he calls her a slut, a bitch or a n*****.  He could also try and cop a feel, he’s that confident that the rules simply do NOT apply to him.

  27. 27.

    Tony Jay

    Denying he knows anything about this ‘organised Gold Star Event’, distancing himself from his own campaign’s defences and claims, throwing the families who have tried to shield him under the bus.

    People often mention Stench’s feral ability to scent vulnerabilities in a grift and either exploit or avoid particular angles of fuckery. If their master is backing away from this fight, expect the Party of Hench and their media allies to redouble their efforts to reinvent history and turn this into a problem for Democrats.

  30. 30.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    it’s impossible to dump that obscene photograph of Donnie giving a thumbs up at the graveside in the memory hole.

    Looks like the same thumbs up, grinning idiot in this 4-year old photo after a mass shooting in El Paso that got memory holed. There is no bottom to his depravity, each heinous act burying the one before and a media that treats his sociopathy as fodder for clicks.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/trump-photo-melania-el-paso-orphan-baby-photo.html

  37. 37.

    Jeffg166

    Harris dominated the headlines for two weeks he had to do something to get the focus back on him. He succeeded yet again.

  38. 38.

    sab

    @piratedan: I love NPR except for Morning Edition, which offers the programming that gives the rest of NPR a bad name. If Trump’s crew has lost Steve Inskeep then they have really messed up.

  39. 39.

    raven

    At his Michigan rally, Trump denied using photos and videos from a wreath-laying ceremony on Monday to campaign, even though he used them in a TikTok clip attacking President Joe Biden’s administration. He said that the families of fallen soldiers had asked to take photos with him and that he simply obliged. He then repeatedly said he didn’t need “publicity” from the event.

    “I don’t need publicity. I get a lot of publicity,” he said. “I get – I would like to get a lot less publicity. I would pay to get – I’m the only guy who’d hire a public relations agent to get less publicity. Most hired to get publicity.”

    “Then later on that day, I heard that we were using the graves of the soldiers for public relations purposes,” he continued.

  40. 40.

    sab

    @Jay: My dad was a doctor (pathology) who admired the Canadian health system. He tried to move us to Canada in the 1960s but Mom said no (too much winter.)

  43. 43.

    MattF

    It’s so fucking awful, as ever. But what really made me blink this time is that the plan was use the event as a hit against Biden— so the TFG campaign could then claim Biden was at the beach while the Golden One was honoring the military. There are just a dizzying number of lies, libels and insults packed into that idea.

  45. 45.

    motopilot

    So is Trump attempting to prove that if you give your life for our country you are a sucker?

    In his mind, he thinks…  “I can dance on their grave and hardly anyone recognizes that.  It’s just good press.”

    It’s like him hugging and kissing the flag.  It’s like him being on The Apprentice.  It’s all for show.

  46. 46.

    Geoduck

    One additional fun tidbit- the governor of Utah was dumb enough to get involved in the Arlington fiasco. Evidently he was one of the people in one of the “grin and thumbs up” shots; I’ve read he’s been a non-Shiatgibbon fan in the past, and decided he needed to get on the bandwagon. And now he’s taking heat for it back home.

  48. 48.

    Frankensteinbeck

    As much as Trump craves publicity, he does not like bad publicity and throws fits when his actions are not portrayed on the media as perfect.  Screaming Truth Social tantrums, generally.

  50. 50.

    Nelle

    @piratedan: Our HOA is pretty hands off, but we like to stay in the guidelines, one of which is no political signs until six weeks before the election.  So my husband was holding his Vote Vets sign until then.  But after the Arlington transgression, he put it out.  Veterans for Kamala.  He did 10 years in the Navy, three tours in Viet Nam.  I doubt anyone will complain.

  51. 51.

    Geminid

    @Mousebumples: VoteVets and its national network of supporters have played an important role in the Virginia 7th Congressional District race. Last November they staged a “shock and awe” campaign launch for Eugene Vindman that raised a million dollars the first day and bigfooted the other hopefuls. Vindman  cruised to victory in the June primary and enjoys a substantial fundraising edge over his Republican opponent, Derek Anderson.

    Both men are Army veterans in their 40s. Eugene Vindman and his twin brother Alexander completed the ROTC program at SUNY-Binghamton, while Anderson enlisted and was a Special Forces noncom most of his career. After retiring Anderson graduated from law school at Georgetown University. Vindman earned a law degree while in the Army.

    Redistricting has shifted the 7th District’s center of gravity from the northern Richmond suburbs to the I-95 corridor, from Woodbridge south to Fredericksburg. The old 7th had been Republican for decades until Abigail Spanberger flipped it in 2018. She won the redrawn 7th by over 4 points in 2022, and I think this year’s contest is rated as “Lead D.”

    VoteVets could have a significant impact in this district. The 7th is largely suburban/exurban, running from the lower Potomac to the Blue Ridge. It’s chock full of military veterans, many of them in their second careers like Vindman and Anderson.

  54. 54.

    raven

    @Geoduck:

    Under Cox’s signature, the email said, “If you would like to further support our campaign please consider the following options:” and included buttons to display a yard sign or donate.

    In a post on X, formerly known as Twitter, Wednesday morning, Cox wrote, “This was not a campaign event and was never intended to be used by the campaign. It did not go through the proper channels and should not have been sent.”

  57. 57.

    eclare

    @Baud:

    That is what is so weird.  I googled Cox, he said he did not vote for TCFG in 2016, 2020, and would not in 2024.  Until he was shot, then Cox changed his mind.

    Did he really think that there would be some groundswell of support for TCFG because he was shot?  Cox is going to win UT regardless, why switch?

  59. 59.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Geminid: it’s good to know vindman Has a likely lead, and pretty good funds. I get his fundraising ads often in YouTube, and I’m rooting for him!

  62. 62.

    TBone

    On Thursday, White uploaded a screen recording of Donald J. Trump‘s Deputy Director of Communications Margo Martin’s X account where she posted a now-deleted video of the Republican nominee walking to the White Stripes‘ “Seven Nation Army.” White said there was a lawsuit coming from his lawyers, “to add to your five thousand others,” he noted.

    “Don’t even think about using my music you fascists,” wrote White in the caption of his post on Instagram. “Have a great day at work today Margo Martin.” He added, “a double fuck you DonOLD for insulting our nation’s veterans at Arlington you scum. You should lose every military family’s vote immediately from that if anything makes sense anymore.”

    https://crooksandliars.com/2024/08/jack-white-says-hes-suing-trump-over-using

  63. 63.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @TBone: I’m really looking forward to Sentencing Day in NYC

    Is that coming up soon? Oh please, I need something to celebrate.

    (I stopped tracking it when it got postponed after I’d waited it so eagerly. Maxed on the disappointments and incredulity)

  65. 65.

    Geo Wilcox

    @Scout211: Tump reminds me of a malevolent Dickens character from Bleakhouse. The slimy guy who uses a shady lawyer to bilk the small fortune of one of the wards in the Jarndyce vs. Jarndyce. He’s the one who always blames others and excuses his errors and alleged ignorance being due to his “childlike” demeanor.

  71. 71.

    mrmoshpotato

    @opiejeanne:

    This just keeps going and going, with new revelations every day. They are idiots, and they are weird. 

    They are also fascists, and they are also traitors.

  73. 73.

    matt

    The thing is, they can’t release the video that exonerates them, because the video implicates them.

  78. 78.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: Eugene Vindman is one of two Democrats running for open seats in northern Virginia this year. The other is state Senator Suhas Subramanyam who running in the 10th CD. The current Representative is Jennifer Wexton, who sadly must retire for health reasons.

    Wexton endorsed Subramanyam in the primary, with good reason I think. A 37 year-old attorney and volunteer firefighter/EMT, Subramanyam worked in the Obama White House on a tech-policy task force, and has been a state legislator for several years now.

    Subramanyam grew up in the Houston area, and earned a law degree at Northwestern University after undergraduate studies at Tulane. He’s lived in the district about 15 years, which could be the median for this rapidly growing area.

    Senator Subramanyam also has an older connection to the 10th CD. Dulles Airport lies at its northern end, and that was his parents’ Port of Entry when they immigrated to the US. They were on their way from Bangalore to Houston, where they took up medical careers.

  81. 81.

    AM in NC

    @piratedan:   Everything in your comment is true, but something in it really struck me:  how deeply deeply misogyny is embedded in our culture. It has become anathema to write/say racist terms, and we have a workaround (N-word) when trying to describe racist language used by others.  But disparaging words applied to women? No problem. We don’t even notice it, it is so accepted and embraced.

    Please understand that I’m not saying that YOU are a misogynist, just noting how language reveals culture, and we are soaking in misogyny.

    I had the same thought when the Dixie Chicks changed their name to be culturally sensitive. “Dixie” was a problem, but referring to themselves as women as fluffy, baby farm animals was not seen as any kind of issue.

  84. 84.

    Geminid

    @Gloria DryGarden: Eugene Vindman looks like a good candidate. He’s new to electoral politics but he shows decent retail campaign skills. Vindman’s biggest advantage is that his opponent is running with Trump.

  85. 85.

    p.a

    It took Tail Gunner Joe stupidly going after the Army to take him down.  Now this, 🤞same result.

    By any means necessary.  But it’s disturbing that has to get to that point, as if smearing average citizens or other institutions is BAU (business as usual), “nothing to see here, move along.”

  86. 86.

    geg6

    @MagdaInBlack:

    He creeps you out?!?!?!  Jack White is awesome!  The guy who has Johnny Cash as one of his icons?  The guy who was in It Might Get Loud with Jimmy Page and the Edge?  The guy who looks kinda like Johnny Depp before Depp did too many drugs and drank too much alcohol?  I love Jack White!

  89. 89.

    MagdaInBlack

    @geg6: LoL , I get the Johnny Depp similarity, but there’s just something uncanny ( to me) about him. I’m fine with (most) of his music.

  90. 90.

    Suzanne

    @Danielx:

    You have to wonder about Team Trump’s grasp on this whole politics thing. They don’t seem to be very good at it.

    I don’t know about that. They have a chokehold on a wide swath of voters. Every time we get spun up about something like this, a bunch more of his diehards gets even more dug in.

    I mean, they’re terrible people.

  92. 92.

    Mousebumples

    @Nelle: Our HOA is pretty hands off, but we like to stay in the guidelines, one of which is no political signs until six weeks before the election.

    That’s reasonable. There are Trump signs out (also some for the August primary), but I put out a Baldwin sign and one for my local (long odds) State Assembly race.

    Hoping to get a Harris/Walz sign, Lyerly sign… And I might pick up one that says, “I Stand With Planned Parenthood” at the farmer’s market today. Given out by some ministers, I think, who also have free condoms, among other things.

  94. 94.

    Geminid

    @Suzanne: Trump’s campaign has to reach beyond the Republican base though. They have to carry the Independent/Unaffiliated vote to win states like Arizona and Georgia, and those voters are the kind this Arlington story alienates.

  95. 95.

    brendancalling

    I stopped listening to NPR a few months back due to the constant negative reporting on Biden. Sometimes I tune in just to see the train wreck. Folkenflik and Inskeep are two of the worst offenders. Honestly surprised they’re not making a false equivalence or a both-sides here. I’m sure they’ll figure out someway to minimize it. They always do…

  96. 96.

    Baud

    @Geminid:

    I think it’s difficult for us to predict what will alientates whom. There have been so many things he has done that should have alienated people but haven’t. We just have to keep pushing and hope something clicks before November.

  97. 97.

    SFAW

    @Jay: ​
     
    TBone’s thoughts and wishes reflect my own. Best wishes to T, and keeping my fingers crossed for excellent results.

  98. 98.

    Baud

    @brendancalling:

    I’m not sure if there’s yet been a media drumbeat for Trump to release the video like we saw with demanding that Kamala sit down for an interview.

  99. 99.

    Princess

    FYFNYT but this is more plausible than any other account I have read. It was the senators who pushed Biden out. They did it around July 12. Not, as it happens, Pelosi. “Give me another week,” Biden told them.
    The article doesn’t say, but I bet he told Harris then and the two worked together to create a seamless transition and handover. Under the cover of the RNC, Harris could get her ducks in a row, plan her message, her music, her look, with Biden’s blessing, using his team which is now her team and be ready to go on July 21.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/29/us/politics/senate-democrats-biden-drop-out.html?unlocked_article_code=1.HE4.QktT.-o34ykjo7zpB&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb&ngrp=ctr

    Sorry — probably not a gift link because it’s a gift sent to me but you can look it up.

  100. 100.

    Geminid

    @Baud: My observation is that a lot of Independents who might otherwise vote Republican object to Trump on grounds of character. So do some Republicans, and I think the Arlington story will reinforce those doubts.

  102. 102.

    Ramalama

    @Jay: Fingers crossed!

    Also as a ‘Merican living in Quebec, I still rate Canadian healthcare +2 to +10 over USA (depending). My parents had the gold standard in medical insurance (in Chicagoland) and still had to HIRE MY BROTHER part-time to get help, while they were ill, to battle with doctors and the insurance company. A nightmare.

    Parts of it suck, but when it works, it works well and is free,

    I’m of the mind that healthcare is baked into the Canadian system, and is paid for by citizens paying their taxes, right? It’s free in that it doesn’t cost extra-extra as it does in the US.

  103. 103.

    Another Scott

    @Ruckus: He and Lenona Helmsley seem to be two peas in a pod.

    During her career as one of the city’s most notable real-estate developers her rivalry to Donald Trump was open. She was quoted as saying “I wouldn’t trust him if his tongue was notarized.”[20][21]

    […]

    Despite the Helmsleys’ net worth totalling over $1 billion, they were known for disputing payments to contractors and vendors. In 1983, the Helmsleys bought Dunnellen Hall, a 21-room mansion in Greenwich, Connecticut, to use as a weekend retreat. The property cost $11 million but the Helmsleys wanted to make it even more luxurious. The work included a $1 million dance floor, a silver clock, and a mahogany card table.[15] The remodeling bills came to $8 million, which the Helmsleys were loath to pay. A group of contractors sued the Helmsleys for non-payment and the Helmsleys eventually paid off most of the debt owed to the contractors.[citation needed]

    In 1985, during court proceedings in relation to the lawsuit, the contractors revealed that most of their work was being illegally billed to the Helmsleys’ hotels as business expenses. The contractors sent a stack of the falsified invoices to the New York Post to prove that the Helmsleys were trying to avoid tax liabilities. The resulting Post story led to a federal criminal investigation.[citation needed]

    Jeremiah McCarthy, the Helmsleys’ executive engineer, also alleged that Leona repeatedly demanded that he sign invoices to bill personal expenses to Helmsley-Spear[clarification needed] and, when McCarthy declined to do so, exploded with tyrannical outbursts, shouting, “You’re not my fucking partner! You’ll sign what I tell you to sign.”[22] In 1988, then-U.S. Attorney Rudy Giuliani indicted the Helmsleys and two of their associates on several tax-related charges, as well as extortion.[12][23]

    The trial was delayed until the summer of 1989 due to numerous motions by the Helmsleys’ attorneys, most of them related to Harry’s health. He had begun to appear feeble shortly after the beginning of his relationship with Leona years before and had recently suffered a stroke on top of a pre-existing heart condition. Ultimately, he was ruled mentally and physically unfit to stand trial and Leona would face the charges alone.[12]

    At trial, a former Helmsley-Spear executive, Paul Ruffino, said that he refused to sign phony invoices billing the company for work done on the Connecticut mansion. Ruffino, originally employed to assist Harry through the Hospitality Management Services arm, said that Leona fired him on several occasions for refusing to sign the bills, only for Harry to usually tell him to ignore her and come back to work.[citation needed]

    Another one of the key witnesses was a former housekeeper at the Helmsley home, Elizabeth Baum, who recounted Leona telling her, “We don’t pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes.”[24] Leona denied saying this. By then, however, the trial was already highlighting her abusive and micromanaging behavior towards family members, employees, contractors, and even senior executives. Former employees testified at trial “about how they feared her, with one recalling how she casually fired him while she was being fitted for a dress“.[25] Most legal observers felt that Helmsley’s hostile personality, arrogance, and “naked greed” alienated the jurors.[citation needed]

    […]

    Donnelly, Matt (May 25, 2022). “Trump Nemesis and ‘Queen of Mean’ Leona Helmsley Subject of Juicy New Documentary (EXCLUSIVE)”. Variety. Retrieved August 15, 2024.

    Howe, Caroline (July 14, 2021). “Behind Queen of Mean Leona Helmsley, a $5B estate and Trump”. Retrieved August 15, 2024.
    New York Times, August 1989.

    Weber, Peter (July 2, 2021). “Rudy Giuliani sent Trump business rival Leona Helmsley to prison for tax fraud”. theweek. Retrieved August 15, 2024.

    […]

    There seems to be something toxic about people in big-time NYC real estate – and of course they all hate each other.

    It’s good that NPR and others are not letting this ANC story just fade away.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  108. 108.

    Suzanne

    @Geminid: But does it actually alienate anyone? Like, that’s what I’m really struggling with.

    Nothing he has ever done has moved that needle in any significant way. Like, if you were ever a person who would have been deeply offended by this incident — and I include myself in that — weren’t you already offended? He’s done so much that’s terrible already.

    I think any election with Trump in it is really about how much Americans hate other Americans and want to make them suffer. And that loathing is wide and deep, and supersedes almost everything else.

  109. 109.

    SFAW

    @Baud: ​
     

    I think it’s difficult for us to predict what will [alienate] whom. There have been so many things he has done that should have alienated people but haven’t.

    Among the most frustrating/maddening things about the US electorate.

  111. 111.

    sixthdoctor

    @brendancalling: I killed my Slate subscription for the same reason. And they still seem pretty negative on Harris; there was just an article on how she isn’t being sufficiently pro-Palestine enough.

  112. 112.

    Geminid

    @Booger: I did not catch that. I know that when I sampled Vindman’s and Andersons social media acounts a month ago, Vindman was talking about defending Social Security and lowering prescription drug costs while Anderson was warning about the threat posed by Iran. Vindman also posted a pic of a well-attended campaign rally with a big “VoteVets” banner on display.

  114. 114.

    Ramalama

    @Baud: Seems like a concert should be in the works of all righteously aggrieved artists (those still alive) whose music Trump used – to benefit the Harris/Walz campaign.

  115. 115.

    SFAW

    @Suzanne:

    Like, if you were ever a person who would have been deeply offended by this incident — and I include myself in that — weren’t you already offended?

    Your comment made me think of this SNL sketch from 2012. I expect you’ve seen it before.

  118. 118.

    Ramalama

    Oath Keeper Stuart Rhodes, the eye patch who got 18 years for his part in Jan 6 insurrection, has a son who has turned progressive Democrat and is running for office in Montana.

    DAKOTA ADAMS:

    Since switching teams, I have not had any weird conversations with Antifa dudes advocating for house-to-house death squads to eliminate conservative voters. But holy shit, are people ever ready to tell you about how they’re ready to kill all the liberals when the Civil War starts. There’s no symmetry whatsoever.

  119. 119.

    brendancalling

    @piratedan: I’m betting on “you fucking bitch” slipping out if/when she shreds him during the debate. Problem is his mic will be muted, so we probably won’t hear it (and the NYT will cover for him anyway).

  121. 121.

    Suzanne

    @Ramalama:

    But holy shit, are people ever ready to tell you about how they’re ready to kill all the liberals when the Civil War starts. There’s no symmetry whatsoever. 

    Oh, absolutely yes. Never forget that they really want to kill us.

    There’s also a lot of comments in right-wing places about how the rural conservatives in the cities have lots of guns and grow all the food and will kill all the liberals in the cities when the war breaks out. I guess they think liberals don’t have any guns. Except in Chicago or something? I don’t know. It’s not really coherent.

  122. 122.

    pluky

    @Baud: Which is a more efficient way of payment than private market premiums (2%-3% administrative load relative to 15%-20%).

  123. 123.

    Geminid

    @Suzanne: Well, we are talking here of predictions of voting behavior that can only be proved in the event.

    I am working off of anecdotal reporting in general, by disaffected Republicans and Republican leaning Independents, and I do think they are affected by matters like the Arlington Cemetary incident. This is not a large group relative to the entire electorate, but these are otherwise reliable Republican voters and I don’t think Trump can afford to lose them this time.

  124. 124.

    cmorenc

    @Danielx:

    You have to wonder about Team Trump’s grasp on this whole politics thing. They don’t seem to be very good at it.

    A main collateral goal of Trump & campaign with the Arlington Cemetary incident was to demonstrate that Trump is a strongman who is above being bound to any rules imposed by others.  And that he can use that superpower of being unbound or immune to fix all the stuff his followers believe are broken (or “woken”) about this country…because the ordinary institutions enforcing accountability are corrupt and broken, and his blatant defiance and getting away with stuff is proof to his MAGA followers of his power to uproot and change them to de-corrupt the system.

    Whereas what we see is a brazenly corrupt narcissistic sociopath who doesn’t give a shit about anyone but himself and is a wanna-be American Putin who deserves a long jail sentence.

  125. 125.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Suzanne:

    …is really about how much Americans hate other Americans and want to make them suffer. And that loathing is wide and deep, and supersedes almost everything else.

    that’s  one of the weirdest things of all. The level of hate, the inability to take note of evidence, the hateful rhetoric I’ve seen when I lurk around on Facebook, and the above discussed idea that some want to even kill the centrists and liberals.

    If any of ’em profess to be Christian, I do wish they’d post their 10 commandments in their kitchens: I’m thinking if the one that says thou shalt not kill.

    Well, hmm

  126. 126.

    Another Scott

    @brendancalling: I don’t hear Morning Edition much any more, but it seems to me that Franco Ordoñez and maybe to a lesser-extent Domenico Montanaro are worse than Inskeep and Folkenflik. They’re just relentless in slanting things to be terrible (or just as bad) for Biden and Democrats, and “oh well, here’s what Trump said but nobody cares”-ing TCFFG’s latest atrocity.

    It might be my interpretation, but that’s the way it strikes me. YMMV.

    Still, I think NPR and public radio especially, are important – we need to keep after them to do better. (When I’m benevolent despot I will work to make sure that NPR is strongly encouraged to be more balanced and less afraid that Congress will cut their funding if they don’t lick GQP boots…)

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  127. 127.

    Suzanne

    @Geminid: I hope that bears out. Let’s hope those voters at the margins do the right thing, or at least stay the hell home.

    I think the almost overwhelming tragedy of the last almost-decade has been, just….. realizing how many terrible people there are out there.

  128. 128.

    Another Scott

    @Suzanne: People like to be on the winning team and vote for winners.  If the vibes are increasingly that TCFFG is a whin[g]ey looooser, then it will encourage lightly-attached voters to vote against him (or refuse to vote for him).

    Fair-weather fans are a real thing!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  129. 129.

    SFAW

    @cmorenc:

    A main collateral goal of Trump & campaign with the Arlington Cemetary incident was to demonstrate that Trump is a strongman who is above being bound to any rules imposed by others.

    Except he’s been pleading ignorance and underbussing the Gold Star family (“it was a set-up”) for the last couple of days. That seems a little different, but not sure about that.

    But I gotta say: Steven Cheung is as vile a motherfucker as any TCFFG spokesman, past or present, that I can recall. [For example, saying the ANC staffer had a “mental health issue.”] And that’s saying a lot.

  130. 130.

    Ken

    @MattF: the plan was use the event as a hit against Biden

    And every day this big guy, a campaign staffer, comes up to Trump with tears in his eyes, and says, “Sir, sir, you’re not running against Biden now, you’re running against Harris…”

  131. 131.

    SFAW

    @Gloria DryGarden:

    And yet Newtie Gingrich — in my opinion, the one who first weaponized anti-Dem feeling, turning it into irrational hatred — is free to walk among humans.

  132. 132.

    artem1s

    @Ramalama: ​ 
    Wow, this is a great interview and subject.
    If government is going to justify itself existing, it has to give the people who pay into it a return on that investment. And gouging the state budget to draw in more billionaires who will never speak to anybody outside of the country club that they share with the governor, that’s a really fucking poor investment in the future of Montana.
    If this son of a J6 insurrectionist can understand how the GOP method of governing has failed their communities, then there is hope for even the reddest of states to turn back the extremist tide of garbage and deplorables that has flooded their statehouses. I haven’t read the whole article. He may be too far down the 2nd amendment hole to completely recover from MAGAtism. And given his shift to wanting government to work for people instead of trying to destroy it may mean he will never be able to hold office in his state. But you never know.

  133. 133.

    Ken

    @Baud: As I saw on Bluesky: There’s a kind of justice in it; the guy who said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and no one would care, gets shot and no one cares.

    Also, you have to actually get shot, not just fall over and end up with a magically-healing ear.

  134. 134.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Ramalama: way cool. He looks very young, but his stance seems viable for Montana. Wish he’d comb his hair and get a stylist for a moment. I don’t mind his looks, but I’m not sure this look will sell in his district.

    Rooting for dems everywhere. It’s telling that he started to see through the toxic stuff and switched.

  135. 135.

    stinger

    @brendancalling: I got into my car a couple of days ago, and turning on the radio I heard Steve Inskeep say, “Welcome, Mr. Author with a New Book Out. So, you identify as a conservative. Please explain for us what liberals think on the issues.”

  136. 136.

    Ken

    @Suzanne: I feel that “Ha-ha, cities, we have all the food” might be countered by “Ha-ha, we have all the mortgages on your farms”.

  137. 137.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Suzanne: It’s more coherent than you might think, just racist. They think of white liberals (including Jews–a lot of this is thinly disguised antisemitism) as weak and effete but conniving puppetmasters, and black people and brown people as scary and violent footsoldiers. The latter are the ones they imagine coming to kill them in the civil war. So they’ll fight back by exterminating the pushover leaders.

    Kind of like the vision the Illinois Nazi character was shouting through his bullhorn in the movie “The Blues Brothers”. But bog-standard Republicans often have something like it, a less extreme version, in the back of their heads. The idea that they’re the put-upon salt of the earth stuck in the middle between contemptuous liberal elites and a terrifying, violent underclass that they’re coddling.

  139. 139.

    Jeffg166

    @Baud:

    He knows how to give the legacy media all the click bait they need. The focus is shifting from Harris back to Don Old where he wants it. Nothing is too outrageous to say to get the public’s attention. Once again he is being discussed on this site. He doesn’t care what is said about him as long as people are talking about him. It all free PR.

  141. 141.

    lowtechcyclist

    @p.a:

    Brain glitch: every time I see ANC my first thought is African National Congress.

    Advisory Neighborhood Commission.

  142. 142.

    cmorenc

    @MagdaInBlack:

    @geg6: LoL , I get the Johnny Depp similarity, but there’s just something uncanny ( to me) about him. I’m fine with (most) of his music.

    Even such a hard-core traditional country/bluegrass icon as Ricky Skaggs is happy to play music with White.  Obviously White does not creep Skaggs out, Skaggs doesn’t do music with creepy musicians.

  145. 145.

    p.a.

    I know I shouldn’t be furious about this, I know it’s just who they are, I know, I know, but MSNBC chyron right now : “Harris Vows To Appoint Republican To Cabinet”.  (Emphasis mine) Vows!  Vows?  She said she’d consider it, right?  No pinky swear, no oath, no blood involved, right?

    When is that meteor coming…

  146. 146.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Baud: I have stopped believing in a “Face in The Crowd” open-mic moment that alienates everyone. His mic is open all the time.

    Instead it’s a process of erosion. Arlington cost him some supporters. The anti-Kamala memes cost him a few others. The next one will cost some more. Drip, drip, drip.

    This is why we have to have a multi-pronged strategy.

    My wife just signed us up with a postcard organization. I forget the name, but it’s the one affiliated with Hopium Chronicles.

  147. 147.

    trnc

    @piratedan: ​
     

    Not sure what new depths can be plumbed, but damn if he doesn’t keep finding them. It’s getting to be 50/50 if he shows up to the debate that he calls her a slut, a bitch or a n*****. He could also try and cop a feel, he’s that confident that the rules simply do NOT apply to him.

    I won’t deny this possibility, but I think we’ve predicted bad behavior at crucial moments that hasn’t happened. If it does happen, obviously, that’s good for us.

    But if we get the same kind of debate performance from him that he had with Biden, I doubt it will make much of a difference. She’ll walk all over him from a content perspective and he’ll be fact checked, but she’ll be fact checked, too, even if it’s both-siderism. IMO, the key will be for her to demonstrate just how much he’s been working to keep things “bad” for his own reasons, like spiking the border bill.

  149. 149.

    trnc

    @mrmoshpotato: ​
     

    Thank you for the reminder that John McCain should be burning in Hell.

    He saved Obamacare right before he died, so I think that’s pretty good penance.

  150. 150.

    Gin & Tonic

    This framing really pisses me off: BBC on-line headline “NHL star Johnny Gaudreau and brother killed in car accident.” If you haven’t read about it, a really tragic incident, in which the two brothers were out for a bicycle ride on the eve of their sister’s wedding and were run over and killed by a drunk driver.

    THIS WAS NOT A FUCKING “CAR ACCIDENT,” IT WAS MANSLAUGHTER.

    People on bicycles, using the road as is their legal right, are mowed down by auto and truck drivers on the regular, and part of the reason there isn’t more attention and outrage paid to this is because these incidents are referred to as “car accidents.” There is nothing accidental about running over someone. It’s like “accidental shooting” – the shooting may have been unintended, but there is nothing accidental about a bullet coming out of a gun when the trigger is pulled.

    Great way to start the day. I need to calm down.

  151. 151.

    Ruckus

    @Suzanne:

    It’s not really coherent.

    Pure hate rarely is. A lot of conservative areas have lost a lot of their support over the last 2 or 3 decades because of them losing some of their power and being obnoxious about it. I’d bet that most people do not want to regress because while life may have been simpler decades ago, in an age of less communications, on the whole, life is better for most of us. We get to see the good and bad sides of politicians, of the wealthy, of the haters. This has changed day to day life, showing up people like sfb. That doesn’t mean they won’t have support, it does however make the reasons that they do or don’t have support rather obvious. And that changes a lot.

    I believe I’ve written this before – right here on this here website. Humanity changing for the better, the more inclusive, the more open is better. It may not always seem like it but in the long run the difference over the last century has been a lot and has changed life and this country for the better, by pointing out a lot of life that most people never saw and why they never saw it. It’s still life, with all it’s ups and downs, good and bad, wealth and poverty, but it is far more obvious why and how it got there and a possibility that it can get better. Look at our democrat running for president. From this old white man, it’s a pretty damn good change for the better. Progress. It’s slow, often unnoticeable, but it’s here, it’s real and can make this a better world for all.

  152. 152.

    Denali5

    @Jeffg166: Yes. For him, any publicity is good, because he can do no wrong. It is obscene, but the only thing that will make him lose is to make him unattractive to the media. The money he draws in is what fuels them.

  153. 153.

    Thor Heyerdahl

    @p.a: Brain glitch: every time I see ANC my first thought is African National Congress.

    I keep thinking Anchorage airport.

  154. 154.

    trnc

    @brendancalling: ​ I’m irritated with NPR most of the time, but they did a very good straight up report on air on the nonsense, too. Also a big surprise to me that Spectrum News did the same.​

  155. 155.

    Tony Jay

    @p.a.:

    Looks like painting Harris and Walz as untrustworthy liars is the Hail Mary they’ve landed on to help out Stench, and setting up fake pledges they can be accused of breaking is part of that.

    Give it a few days and we’ll probably start seeing the first opinion pieces laying out The Narrative that a record of persistent lying and over-promising is a troubling drag on the Democratic ticket. This record will, of course, cast worrying ‘clouds and shadows’ over every single statement they make from now until November, and somehow they just won’t be able to shake the ‘perhaps unfair’ impression that nothing they say can be trusted.

    Will the corporate media be able to successfully project an entirely fictional version of Harris and Walz to the electorate in such a short period of time? With Stench and the Party of Stench misfiring in the background and Social Media providing an uncensorable version of reality?

    I haz me doots. They’ll try it. They have to try something, but they just don’t have the time or the ammunition to make it happen.

  157. 157.

    Ruckus

    @Gloria DryGarden:

    The power is being opened. Seen. Made more obvious.

    And this is a good thing. In my lifetime the change is actually rather large, and makes this nation stronger. This is a nation based upon the notion that humanity is in charge, not money. In the vast majority of human life it has always been those with the most that made the rules. This country is about ALL of US having a say. Not just the wealthy. The olds likely remember that there was a time that a person could be drafted and yet could not vote because you could be drafted to fight for your country at 18 but not vote till 21. It was in my lifetime, it changed when I turned 21. It made this a better country. We need to understand that humanity is everyone, the good, and the not so good, from zero to in the ground. And everyone is affected by the concept of this country, that is by, for and about ALL of us. Not just the wealthy, not just the white, all of us. Life is what this is all about, not money, not power, life.

  158. 158.

    Belafon

    Jeff Walz took to Facebook to distance himself from his brother’s political beliefs. In one comment, he wrote, “The stories I could tell. Not the type of character you want making decisions about your future.”

    He also disclosed a strained relationship with his brother, noting, “Haven’t spoken to him in 8 years. I’m 100% opposed to all his ideology.”

    Jeff claimed that after Tim Walz was chosen as Harris’ running mate, his family wasn’t informed or given any security. He also mentioned that he had “considered” aligning with Trump and publicly endorsing his re-election.

    https://www.wionews.com/world/jeff-walz-brother-of-kamala-harris-vp-pick-tim-walz-might-support-trump-754857

    Almost everyone has that brother.

  159. 159.

    trnc

    @Gin & Tonic: FWIW, I don’t think the media can call it manslaughter in a straight news piece before that’s actually charged, so I expect another story after that happens.

  160. 160.

    Ruckus

    @Tony Jay:

    It’s the ammunition that is missing. Sure time is important but their story is both bull and shit and obviously so. And their leader is about as much leader as my little toe.

    He’s a selfish child in an adult body, who continues to prove that daily.

  161. 161.

    Gin & Tonic

    @trnc: ​
    I agree a news story can’t call it manslaughter until charges are filed, but IT WASN’T A FUCKING CAR ACCIDENT.
    Here is the first paragraph of the on-line story, in its entirety:

    National Hockey League star Johnny Gaudreau and his brother were killed in a car accident in New Jersey on Thursday night.

    There’s no need to save space, it’s an on-line story. How about “were run over by an alleged drunk driver.” He failed a field sobriety test and was arrested at the scene, so it’s factually accurate. Again, for the cheap seats, it was not an accident.

  162. 162.

    Ken

    @Spanky: They have bumper stickers saying Molon Labe.

    Yes, but the ancient Greeks were just up against the Persian Empire with its (checks 300, the most accurate account) battle rhinos and wizards. The rural rebellion would be facing the banking and financial services system.

  163. 163.

    pieceofpeace

    @Jay: Missed the posting of this;  a relief for you that you have obtained a top, competent medical team.

    Hoping the best results conclude this journey.

  164. 164.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Ken: ​@Suzanne: I feel that “Ha-ha, cities, we have all the food” might be countered by “Ha-ha, we have all the mortgages on your farms”.

    Careful what you wish for, boychik:

    Want to foreclose on us? We’ll show up with guns. Send out your goons to auction off our property – assuming they haven’t all shit their pants at the prospect. See how many bids you get beyond the $1 bid by the present owner once our pieces all locked and loaded.

    Think I’m joking? Read all about how this went down during the Depression.

  165. 165.

    Suzanne

    @Ken:

    I feel that “Ha-ha, cities, we have all the food” might be countered by “Ha-ha, we have all the mortgages on your farms”. 

    I typically think of it as, “Ha ha, we have all your medical care”. But the same basic idea.

  166. 166.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @MagdaInBlack: I just checked out jack white on YouTube. I agree w you, it’s subtle, but there’s just a little something off about him. When I try to read him, I only sense his brain has a section that’s wired differently, as if he’d been on a bad trip, and something shut down. As if a part of him were congealed in jello.  So musically he’s fine, but I’m not drawn to him. I don’t want to sit down and have a chat with him.

    I first heard the seven nations song, incidentally, in a musical remake of Cinderella w Camilla cabello and a rising singer -actor, Nicholas galitzine. I like Nicholas’s version of the song, his voice is richer than jack’s. but man that guitar riff, the way jack plays it, is so satisfying.

    ymmv

  168. 168.

    MinuteMan

    @raven: Governor Cox makes Mitt Romney look like a Politician of Steel.  ​Given that he’s past the primary one wonders why he seems to stoop lower every day: the members of our local peculiar institution will always vote for the candidate bearing the scarlet letter. Cox is a sniveling fool bordering on being a nonentity.

  170. 170.

    A Man for All Seasonings (formerly Geeno)

    @Uncle Cosmo: They don’t run the auctions like they used to. It becomes the bank’s property to dispose of as they wish, and they usually just pass it off to a large holding corp or other predetermined buyer – no auction.

  172. 172.

    Citizen Alan

    @Uncle Cosmo: Even if foreclosure is impossible (and a lot has changed on that front since the depression) , the banks won’t refinance loans to allow farms to buy fuel and new equipment needed to get their crops planted and harvested. A farmer who removes himself from the larger economic system is just a guy with a lot of fields that are going to sit fallow.

  173. 173.

    scav

    @Suzanne: There’s also the minor issue of where all the food processing plants are, who controls key aspects of the transportation infrastructure . . . . I mean, sitting on masses of one half dent corn, one half soybeans, with mountains of unground winter wheat sitting a few states over . . . slaughter houses they do have locally, so probably fine for meat.  It’s not exactly Ma and Pa raising a little locally produced balanced diet affair they’ve got rocking.

  175. 175.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    @Suzanne:

     

    I think any election with Trump in it is really about how much Americans hate other Americans and want to make them suffer. And that loathing is wide and deep, and supersedes almost everything else.

    Spot on observation. And it isn’t just elections with Trump in it either.

    Think about the trucks driving around which have been modified to produce the “Rolling Coal” effect. Kills their gas mileage, damages the lifespan of the engine, and accomplishes nothing except to enrage anybody who cares about having clean air to breathe.

    A large chunk of the USA exists in a simmering state of hatred, rage and symbolically expressed violence towards other Americans.

  177. 177.

    wjca

    @Citizen Alan:  A farmer who removes himself from the larger economic system is just a guy with a lot of fields that are going to sit fallow.

    If you uses actual horses to power your farm equipment, you can at least keep them going by grazing on your land.  But once you go to petroleum power, you are stuck.

    Well, unless you have ignored your peer group, put up a ton of solar panels, and use electric farm equipment.  But how many have?

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