Live blogging in Judge Chutkan’s Courtroom Today by Roger Parloff.
Do we still call it live-blogging when presenting the material when the even is over?
It’s Sep 5 and I’m at Prettyman US Courthouse in DC for today’s 10am hearing in US v Trump before Judge Tanya Chutkan. I’ll be live-tweeting for @lawfare from the media room, while colleague @annabower will be in the courtroom. …
/1
Trump’s attys & Special Counsel will be arguing over the timing & nature of the path forward after SCOTUS’s immunity ruling. This afternoon, at 4pm, @lawfare editor-in-chief Ben Wittes will interview @AnnaBower and me about today’s events. …
/2
Join the Lawfare team tomorrow for a discussion of the trials of Donald Trump.
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/lawfare-live–trump’s-trials-and-tribulations–sept.-5
@lawfare @AnnaBower Trump will probably also be arraigned today on the new “superseding” indictment, but he has waived his appearance, so that will probably be very pro forma. …
/3
@lawfare @AnnaBower Incidentally, Judge Chutkan sits in Courtroom 9, on the 4th floor of the older part of the bldg (1952), pictured in tweet 1. The stolid govt’l style is called “stripped classicism,” which I assumes means classicism but stripped of most ornamentation. …
/4
@lawfare @AnnaBower For those of you who followed along during the Oath Keepers & Proud Boys trials—those took place in the beautiful annex (2005) to the right, designed by Michael Graves, which features a 6-floor atrium & reddish “curly” maple paneling everywhere. We’re 3 blocks from Capitol…
/5
@lawfare @AnnaBower The media room has also been upgraded since the OK and PB trials. There are now 2 media rooms, at least for big events like today’s, and the old one, where I am, has been upgraded, with plugs galore & one huge HD screen (> 8 feet diagonally?) instead of 2 smaller ones. …
/6
So the enormous screen has just illuminated with views of the courtroom, which is always a relief. As in the past, it’s split into 4 quadrants. One shows the bench; two show counsel tables; the 4th is black now, but typically shows exhibits.
/7
At the moment, we can’t see the prosecution table well. At defense table we see John Lauro, Todd Blanche, Emil Bove, a man I assume is Lauro partner Gregory Singer, and another male I can’t identify.
/8
All rise. Chutkan takes bench.
criminal case 23 dash 257 is called.
govt counsel: Thomas Windom & Molly Gaston. there’s an fbi agent at their table.
defense: John Lauro identifies Trump’s crew, which includes a paralegal.
/9
Lauro: life has been almost meaningless without seeing you.
Judge: enjoy it while it lasts.
…
Chutkan now summarizing the SCOTUS ruling.
Chutkan: purpose of this hearing is to confirm trump’s arraignment & 2d to discuss schedule going forward.
/10
she says she hopes to issue a schedule today, tho not at the hearing itself.
Now Chutkan is describing the superseding indictment & fact that Trump has waived his appearance. He pleas not guilty on all 4 counts. She’s confirming all that on the record now.
/11
Chutkan now summarizing the 4 charges. Lauro confirms Trump rec’d indictment, reviewed it, entering plea of not guilty to all 4 counts. waiving full formal reading.
Chutkan accepts the waiver. arraignment complete.
/12
Judge: let’s go over scheduling …
She’s now listing pending motions before SCOTUS ruling.
Judge: def’s reply brief to discovery motions needs to be reset. …
She’s discussing how much time was remaining on various deadlines at time of stay. …
/13
… E.g., motions in limine were due in about 3 weeks at the time everything was stayed due to the immunity challenge.
Now she turns to parties proposals for how to move forward.
Some common ground. Agree on issues to be resolved. …
/14
Both sides contemplate that at least some issues be resolved concurrenty.
Govt proposes that it files first filing relating to immunity. Defense could respond. govt would reply.
Govt wants other motions decided concurrently. AUSA Windom confirms that’s their position.
/15
Chutkan now describes Trump’s proposed approach.
Chutkan: let’s first talk about the immunity issue, just want to nail down what that approach would look like. Some questions for Windom.
J: you propose filing before def moves to dismiss. not ordinary course. why depart?
/16
Windom: we’re not in a typical situation. SCOTUS has created new law. … looking for most efficient practical way forward. indictment doesn’t include all the categories of info we believe may be subject to immunity litigation. that’s why we propose to go first.
/17
we should structure a schedule that leads to only one interlocutory appeal. Def proposes several interlocutory appeals. we know there will be an interlocutory appeal. trhying to limit it to one.
we’d file a comprehensive description of both pled & unpled facts. …
/18
Chutkan: would include a “proffer.” be more specific? form it would take. written?
Windom: our initial view is this: comprehensive brief setting forth facts. in and outside indictment. substantial number of exhibits. GJ transcripts, interview transcripts, 302s …
/19
would allow court to continue context . in addition we’d set forth why we believe conduct is private in nature and not subject to immunity.
then with respect to allegations re Vice President–why we believe presumption of immunity is rebutted. benefit of us going first …
/20
… is you’d have everything in one place. cleaner docket for you and for any appellate court.
Chutkan: not proffering any actual [oral] evidence. would be written.
Windom: that’s right. … put forth papers. review them. decide whether court needs additional info …
/21
… then court can decide whatever [additional] it needs.
Chutkan: you said you’re prepared to file promptly. days? weeks?
Windom: we do have to write this thing. that will take a little time but we’ve begun. it’s under way. anticipate it would take 2-3 weeks–closer to 3.
/22
Judge: last week of September?
Windom: 9/26 [-ish]. Defense has suggested it will take substantial amount of time for them to put for their views. another reason for us to go first. we can go promptly.
Judge asks to speak to Lauro.
/23
Judge: beyond fact the govt’s proposal is procedurally irregular, is that in and of itsself a problem or is there some other prejudice.
Lauro: enormously prejudicial to Trump. … [govt] proposes approach that turns rules on their head. have to look at discovery issues …
/24
… that are outstanding.
Judge: why can’t you do that at same time. … during the briefing schedule?
Lauro: to address what they submit we have to have all the discovery. everything we’re entitled.
other problem, SCOTUS has already decided discussions with VP were official
/25
… so as an initial matter. the issue before court is whether govt can overcome presumption. no way, no possible way lack of immunity would result in intrusion on an important govt function. if they can’t show that, entire indictment improper & illegitimate. gateway issue
/26
that needs to be decided–
Judge: i actually dont think so. scotus ruled on 3 categories. certainly VP conversations may be subject to presumptive immunity. but i have to decide if those conversations are somehow outside his official duties. …
/27
Lauro: i ask you to re-review that opinion. scotus decided they are [presumptively] immune. has to see if govt can overcome presumptive immunity. … if in fact communications are immune, entire indictment fails. entire indictment based on immune info. …
/28
Judge: i’m not sure that’s my reading of the [SCOTUS] ruling. but it’s subject to a lot of different readings.
Lauro: it’s a legal decision we can provide guidance to the court without full evidentiary hearing.
we get opportunity to go first under Rule 12.
/29
Judge: in one way of looking on it, your motion to dismiss is still pending. Govt is just seeking supplemental briefing.
Lauro: they’re asking for an asymmetric protocol.
Judge: courts rule on the time based on evidentiary proffers. I’m the one to decide whether …
/30
I ultimately need an evidentiary hearing. are you saying i don’t have that power?
Lauro: you should scrupulously follow SCOTUS ruling
Judge: i dont think they addressed details of how i do it.
you want witnesses?
Lauro: ultimately we do want that. but first we want …
/31
to resolve other pending motions.
we want to advance our arguments first. this is our motion.
Judge Chutkan suggests he doesn’t want to go forward till next year. He denies it, but she says that’s what your schedule says.
/32
Judge: as i read it, SCOTUS expects us decide the immunity issue forthwith. as early as possible. your schedule, we wouldn’t begin briefing immunity until december.
Lauro: because we’d be filing our briefing based on info we receive from the govt. … These important issues
/33
should not be decided based on an asymmetrical proffer.
Judge: not unfair. govt files open brief, you get a look, chance to address. nothing unfair, just a matter of who goes first.
Lauro: incredibly unfair that they get to put into the record at this terribly sensitive time /34
in our nation’s history …
Now Lauro suggesting that if govt puts in proffer, maybe it should be done under seal. And if it does, Lauro wants chance to make public exculpatory material that he says is currently under protective order.
/35
Judge is saying she won’t take the election into account in terms of timing.
Lauro: letting prosecution go first limits our ability to structure our arguments … we’ve had 14M pp of documents we’ve had to look through–
Judge: you’re own proposed schedule says you …
/36
can resolve discovery issues simultaneously with resolving the immunity issues.
Lauro: there’s something unseemly about a rush to judgment only in this case–
Judge: hardly a rush to judgment. case been pending over a year. we can’t even contemplate a trial date …
/37
Lauro: new SCOTUS ruling changes complexion of case completely.
Judge: we haven’t even discussed how long you need to respond. you can have time to respond. Not prejudicial to you at all.
Lauro: it’s a quagmire. completely prejudicial. We’re going to unseal GJ material
/38
that is very exonerative of president trump because it needs to be on the record and public immediately. we will do that if that’s how govt wants to proceed. but for them to selectively portray how they want to proceed with their case shows fundamental unfairness.
/39
Lauro: this has to be done in a very deliberative way. not back-of-the-envelope. we’re saying, deal with legal issues first. your honor may decide that comms with VP were immune and, if so, indictment needs to be dismissed. right away. let’s deal with gateway issues 1st.
/40
Judge: SCOTUS had indictment before them with comms with VP. they could’ve ruled then. they didn’t. they sent it back to me. so not sure i can agree with you that as a matter of law i can dismiss the superseding indictment at all.
Lauro: of course you can. it’s crystal clear
/41
Lauro: only issue is whether they can overcome the presumption which is an incredibly high bar. prove no chance of intrusion. incredibly high bar. if they fail, then whole indictment craters. it goes away. this is logical way to deal with these issues.
/42
Lauro: they’re suggesting they leapfrog into merits arguments over all the official acts. all that is wasted time if Your Honor decides that pence communications are immune.
Judge: alright, you’ve made your argument. …
Lauro: we need the discovery we’ve requested —
/42
Lauro: discovery issues were stayed almost a year ago. we’re being put it an incredibly unfair position for no reason at all. in light of SCOTUS ruling … we’re talking about a president of the US.
Judge: I’m not talking about a president of the US … it strikes me …
/43
that you’re [trying to time the displaying of evidence based on the timing of the election and Chutkan’s not going to take the election into account.]
Judge: thank you. Mr Windom?
Windom: 5 quick points.
1. discovery: big reveal. no additional discovery we anticipate.
/44
Windom: 2 days ago we provided grand jury transcripts & exhibits for superseding indictment. they have that.
2. motions to dismiss with respect to VP’s allegations–SCOTUS was all about fact-found analysis and fact determinations. Impossible for court to do that without
/45
… info we plan to put forward. …
Chutkan asks about defense wanting to unseal certain material. Windom says there are provision in the protective order that they can follow to litigate that.
3. SCOTUS doesn’t anticipate automatic dismissal of indictment
/46
Now Windom talking about how defense filed 52 page brief in NY just nine days after SCOTUS ruling, showing how quickly they can move.
Judge: congratulations, Mr. Blanche.
/47 [sorry I missed point 5.] Judge: don’t need any more rhetoric on how grave and important this is.
Lauro: it’s not rhetoric, it’s legal argument. … the very first thing your honor needs to do is decide whether that presumption of immunity [for VP comms] can be overcome. …
/48
Judge: why can’t I address that in a single brief? Why does it have to be piecemeal, other than to extend the schedule?
Lauro: if you decide this issue, all that briefing never has to take place. why should we engage in mos and mos of briefing if your honor can decide …
/49
Lauro: … this issue and it will end the case.
They made a calculated risk. they bet the VP material were going to be held immune. Once that’s determined,
[case ends]. we have an illegitimate prosecutor–we haven’t talked about that–and an illegitimate indictment. …
/50
Judge: you want your opening brief to deal solely with the issues about the VP comms?
Lauro: exactly. … I’m an originalist….
Judge: you may be an originalist but i’m a trial judge.
/51
Now discussing defense request to challenge propriety of appointment of special counsel. Chutkan wants to know why it wasn’t filed when dispositive motions were due.
Lauro explains that there was binding DC precedent against them at time. But now very persuasive …
/52
… ruling handed down by a district court judge [Cannon].
there’s certainly no waiver here.
Judge: this expired well before the appeal in this case. there’s binding DC precedent on this. you have an opinion by a district jduge in another circuit which frankly this court …/53
doesn’t find persuasive.
Lauro: court should consider this issue. justice thomas in effect directed us to do this.
Judge: he directed you?
Lauro: well if you read that opinion it’s something we need to do to preserve that issue.
Judge: Mr. Windom?
/54
Windom: despite binding circuit precedent, defs in this court file motions all the time to preserve issues. [they didn’t do that.]
so long as it does not affect briefing schedule for immunity issue, hard to see how govt is prejudiced. but dont see basis for why …
/55
… defendant should not be found to have waived.
Judge: i’m going to allow defense to file that motion. Want you to explain why you think you have enough so that binding DC precedent doesn’t preclude my [granting it].
/56
Judge: is it your position that if contacts with VP are out, whole indictment is out?
Lauro: yes. they used immune evidence in connection with grand jury indictment. that’s what SCOTUS says.
/57
Chutkan: now let’s talk about motion to dismiss based on statutory grounds. … now we have superseding indictment. …
Lauro: I think immunity should be resolved first before we get to other issues.
Judge: may be so, but we can work concurrently.
Lauro: no objection …
/58
Windom agrees that all these things can be going on concurrently.
Judge Chutkan now brings up the Fischer ruling, which narrowed “corrupt obstruction of an official proceeding” (18 USC 1512c2), which is the basis for two counts against Trump. Lauro wants to file an entirely
/59
… new motion but Chutkan sees it more as a supplemental brief to what he’s already filed.
Chutkan: I’m inclined to vacate my denial of motion to dismiss on statutory grounds and to simply seek supplemental briefing. …
/60
Lauro is now saying that when he talks about discovery issues, he’s talking about discovery relating to immunity. But he’s also asking for “Brady material” which is any evidence that exonerates the defendant.
Judge: Brady is an ongoing obligation. Any reason to believe …
/61
… there’s Brady material they haven’t already turned over? [I don’t understand the answer.]
Lauro: there’s also a CIPA [Classified Info Procedures Act] issue that’s pending.
Judge: yes.
Windom: we took comprehensive view of what should be produced. we’ve met our obligations/62
Judge: I’m going to assume parties will continue to meet and confer and discuss discovery issues.
AUSA Windom: there are 2 pending discovery motions: motion to compel and motion to define the “scope of the prosecution team.”
/63
Windom: . Defense suggested taking up “scope of prosecution team” motion first. But the two can’t be disentangled.
Judge: I agree.
Judge now saying that setting a trial date doesn’t make sense because of the pending immunity issues (subject to interlocutory appeal).
/64
Judge: that’s all i have for today. Anything else Mr. Windom? Mr. Lauro? [no, no]
Hearing concludes.
Thanks for following. Please consider listening to @annabower, Ben Wittes & me discuss at 4pm.
/65-end
It’s Up to Us Now, What’s Next?
Motivated Seller
appreciate all the detail…but could we get a TLDR version?
twbrandt
Whenever I see that pic of Jack Smith I think that is not a man to get crosswise with.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@twbrandt: The first time I showed Jack Smith’s picture to Mr DAW, he said, “Him? He looks like a hitman.”
Old School
@Motivated Seller:
TLDR Version: Lawyers argued. No orders issued on future dates. Unlikely to happen prior to election at this point.
Motivated Seller
@Old School: Ah, thankyou.
Scout211
@Motivated Seller: TL;DR version from CNN and more details at the link
cain
@Motivated Seller:
open chatgpt cut-n-paste and ask for a summary and then ask it questions. Then come here and ask the lawyers if this is correct. :)
cain
@Scout211:
I saw a lot of bullying by the defense. It was on the edge of being inappropriate.
Baud
Sully has a long op/ed in the WaPo about Trump’s threat to freedom of the press, but couldn’t resist a gratuitous swipe at Biden for not giving more interviews.
JWR
Heh:
Sometimes the pithier the better.
Baud
@Baud:
Sully = Sulzberger, not Sullivan.
Kirk
So if I’m reading it right,
Prosecution proposed bringing everything into a single up or down review that would speed up all the prelims, recognizing it’s not normal but has precedence since it’s evidentiary.
Defense is that everything needs to be done in order and that nothing should be considered until the immunity issue is resolved not least because that may (will in the defense’s position) make the remainder of the trial moot.
Defense spent some of the time of that position pissing off the judge by telling, not asking, the decisions the judge should be making in these.
Trollhattan
@twbrandt:
He looks like he’s about to ride on Atlanta.
gkoutnik
@Trollhattan: Ha! And maybe he will. One can only (figuratively) hope.
Laertes
I’m eager to see what evidence the prosecution has that the defense is desperate to keep under seal.
Kirk
@Laertes: I can’t help but wonder if the yesterday’s private* note from the prosecution to the teacher doesn’t have the defense rattled a bit.
*(Classified, Ex Parte, In Camera, and Under Seal Notice Regarding Classified Discovery)
Baud
Predictions are bunk but this is a nice one.
Anoniminous
Because I have full Faith and Credit in the US Legal system ….
This thing is going to end-up with the USSC. Who will throw out any convictions.
oldgold
Our criminal justice system is poorly equipped to deal with the billionaire class.
The endless motions and interlocutory appeals just grind the process to mush. Then, when you add into the mix Judges and Justices corrupted by MAGA ideology, the mush turns to shit.
Nettoyeur
@Laertes: Prosecuting atty Windom made a telling remark right up front when he said the SCOTUS immunity ruling made “new law.” For the last 50 years conservativehave insisted that more liberal SCOTUS should not make new law…only Congress can do that But now that the right wing have the majority they are happy with precisely the activism they decried. Effing hypocrites No wonder Judge Luttig has gone after them.
Jackie
GO Pete, go!
Anoniminous
@oldgold:
Works great for billionaires and they spent a fuck ton of money to make sure it works great.
For them
Steve in the ATL
@Trollhattan: brb—making sure my homeowners insurance covers fires!
sdhays
@Baud: Why is he writing an OpEd in the WaPo? Doesn’t he know he owns another paper?
JPL
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I think he’s cute!
Has anyone seen a Trump/Vance sign? I saw my first trump sign yesterday and Vance was missing. A friend who lives on the SC/GA border has seen several trump signs, all without Vance.
David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch
Funny how the media is not demanding an independent interview?
TBone
Is this a REAL quote? 😳😆
Old School
Captain C
@David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch:
“Well, everyone knows what he’s going to say, so it’s not news. Besides, our readers aren’t interested in him at all.” — the FTFNYT, probably
SatanicPanic
@Old School:
“President Trump believes anyone convicted of a crime should spend time behind bars.”
Anyone? including Donald Trump?
Trollhattan
Michigan, and now North Carolina. “Junior, you’re on that ballot, buddy.”
Steve in the ATL
@JPL: saw several last week in Milton, which is of course the trumpiest part of Fulton county. Also saw a few recycled Trump/pence signs. Sad to see that is what is otherwise a really nice, horsey area.
Trollhattan
@SatanicPanic: How about 34 felonies? Or is that too many to jail somebody for? Somebody special; like, really special.
Soprano2
@Trollhattan: It’s so funny how he’s made it absolutely crystal clear that his only purpose in running for president was to ratfuck Joe Biden for TCFG.
Frankensteinbeck
When you combine the Trump legal strategy of making bullshit arguments and demanding the entire case be thrown out with the intricate and counterintuitive legal process, it is really, really hard to know what is going on or is likely to happen.
Scout211
@Old School: I posted that link yesterday. The lede was the most fun:
NBC News getting so close to mocking Trump right there.
JWR
Hunter Biden’s back in the news:
narya
@Kirk: I wonder if it’s related to the latest RussiaRussiaRussia… I don’t have any theories about how, just the timing.
MisterForkbeard
@Motivated Seller: SCOTUS is bought and paid for, Trump’s lawyer is a dick.
Also, Trump’s lawyer is insisting they throw the whole thing out because of Scotus, judge disagrees repeatedl6. lots of professional whining from Trump’s lawyer.
That’s what I got from the first 3/4
Trollhattan
@Soprano2:
Honestly it nearly makes up for having to suffer through his many appearances. Nearly. If he siphons enough votes from Trump to help Kamala, then literally worth it. Trump voters=not bright.
David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch
@SatanicPanic: by bars, he means liquor establishments
Old School
Spoiler: It’s a Gish Gallop.
David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch
@Old School:
he’ll make Mexico pay for it
Geminid
@Jackie: Politico had an article about your Congressional district a couple days ago. It was about efforts to micro-target Trump loyalists in order to boost Rep. Dan Newhouse’s most conservative challenger, Jerrod Sessler. A group called “The Main Street Partnership” thought Sessler would be easier for Newhouse to beat than a more moderate Republican candidate who might have drawn Democratic voters in November. The move worked, so now district voters must choose between Newhouse and a full-blown Trumper.
JaySinWA
I didn’t see a link to the tweets on x listed here so here’s the start of the chain if anyone cares.
https://x.com/rparloff/status/1831660440390078598
zhena gogolia
I’m pleased to find out that I’m now considered “Blue MAGA.” This place is unbelievable. But I’m not going anywhere!
Old School
Soprano2
@Old School: Surely those businesspeople have to realize that he’s full of shit and has no idea how to actually answer that question. Plus, they all know that foreign governments don’t pay tariffs, the companies pay the tariffs and pass the cost along to their customers. I wish someone had the guts to ask him exactly how he’s going to charge a foreign government U.S. taxes, and how he proposes to collect that money.
Baud
@sdhays
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
MisterForkbeard
@zhena gogolia: Who called you Blue Maga? Weird.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
The problem with Blue MAGA is that it sounds awsome. I don’t want to rehabilitate the MAGA brand.
JPL
@Old School: Aaron Rupar has even a better one. Imagine listening to his garbage and then saying he’s our guy. As long as he gives us tax cuts were good.
Rupar has one saying the cost of housing is high because of illegal aliens buying up all the property. Doesn’t he sell his property to non citizens. No way can you stop and not the other. Say goodby to Russian investment trumpie.
trump’s makeup is clownish.
After one of his non answers, I want Kammala to say What The Hell are you talking about? Did you not hear the question?
zhena gogolia
@MisterForkbeard: A respected commenter who doesn’t like it when I express my opinions, which differ from hers.
A Man for All Seasonings (formerly Geeno)
@zhena gogolia:
Blue MAGA? How so?
Jackie
@Geminid: Yes. Sadly, I (and all Dems) have to hold our noses and vote for Newhouse to hopefully keep MAGA Sessler out of the House.
It will be the first time I’ve ever been forced to vote for a Republican 😢
I hope it’s the last time!🤞🏻
zhena gogolia
@A Man for All Seasonings (formerly Geeno): In this instance, because I wonder what benefit there would be for Palestinian civilians if Donald Trump were to win the election, and therefore wonder why all the protestors’ energies are devoted to getting him elected.
ETA: I also expressed my intention to talk up Harris’s brilliant win in the upcoming debate, no matter what the media or Adam Schiff or George Clooney has to say about it.
JPL
@zhena gogolia: Not even sure what that means. Not sure how it works, but there is a way to block people.
zhena gogolia
@JPL: I’m getting close to pie again. I got tired of all the pie pictures in my threads.
Geminid
@Old School: The FBI executed search warrants on at least one of those Adams allies a few months ago. Reports at the time were that the feds were looking into bribes intended to facilite permits for Turkiye’s new Consulate building.
Adams will run for reelection next year, but it could be an uphill battle even if he’s not under indictment. This will be NYC’s second test of their ranked-choice voting system. Adams barely squeaked by last time.
Omnes Omnibus
@zhena gogolia: A lot of rhetorical elbows get thrown around here and most people throw them and take them in stride. It is a very unfortunate result of July’s “fun” that two people who are not elbow throwers, you and MomSense, got thrown into the mosh pit of commenters and appear to have genuinely had your feelings hurt. Please try to remember that most commenters, no matter how vehement, we’re just fighting their corner. A lot of the inflammatory language came from commenters who seem to have disappeared into the ether. As for anyone still trying to tell you were wrong to have the opinion you had/have, in the words of EFG, fuck ‘em.
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus: I apologized to MomSense. But I am done interacting with certain people.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Who called you that?
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Who called you that?
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Let me guess. If you repeat her name 3 times does it rhyme with the infamous org. that terrorized black people and Jewish people?
@Omnes Omnibus: Momsense wants me to be eternally grateful to her because she defended me this one time when other commenters found me annoying, her word not mine. Is not an elbow thrower? That’s news to me.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: My perception of the situation. YMMV.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat: It was a longtime, respected commenter, so I don’t want to violate any taboos around here. But we’re the bullies.
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, because you’re never on the receiving end of the mean girls treatment.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus:
thanks for that great point. And thanks also for saying “Please try to remember” and not the offputting and incorrect “Please try AND remember”!
Mr. Bemused Senior
I, for one, am glad to see that.
Steve in the ATL
@zhena gogolia:
I don’t qualify as a mean girl? That hurts.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: @Omnes Omnibus: There are advantages to being white and male.
schrodingers_cat
@Steve in the ATL: You are not mean enough, and have too much self awareness to qualify as a honorary mean girl.
WaterGirl
@cain: On the over-the-edge line, correct?
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: At least you are not a bad commenter who snipes according to our honorable blog runner WG.
Me expressing an opinion: sniping.
MGs calling me names: Socratic dialog.
Sorry those are the Balloon Juice rules.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: I did manage a “we’re” instead of a “were.”
Scout211
Good for you. I made that decision months ago. There are a few commenters here who like to aggressively argue their opinions in win/lose contests instead of joining a well-rounded discussion and I don’t enjoy that kind of interaction. But that’s just me.
WaterGirl
@JPL: You think he’s cute, I think he’s hot.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: I’ve taken my share of elbows. I also have thrown a few on occasion. As have you. MomSense and z_g, as a rule, have not.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: ducking autocorrect!
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: MS has in my direction, several times. After I stopped interacting with her.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: That son of a bitch is mean to me and Baud all the time. Baud deserves it though.
WaterGirl
@JaySinWA: Sorry about that! I was just putting up the post when soething new landed in y lap,
y f-ing keyboard today doesn’t want to to NN or the letter that follows it. mostly nothing shows up, but occasionally two letters show up.
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: What is that referring to?
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: A comment in another thread. I’m “Blue MAGA.”
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: The pie pics now have their collective feelings hurt. :-)
There is a setting so you can choose between the desserts, dessert related sayings, and where just the #s show up.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: I get tired of all the pie in the threads.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Leave Baud out of it.
zhena gogolia
Now I’ve been informed that “not everyone takes me seriously.” I’m so devastated!
Steve in the ATL
@schrodingers_cat:
Omnes keeps trying to make Baud happen. It’s not going to happen!
[“Mean Girls” callback seemed appropriate]
Steve in the ATL
@zhena gogolia: welcome to my world!
twbrandt
The BJ community definitely reflects the Dems writ large – a coalition, not a monolith.
Eolirin
@Steve in the ATL: You work for the man, how can we take you seriously?
zhena gogolia
@Steve in the ATL: It’s always been my world.
WaterGirl
@schrodingers_cat: Show me where I ever once said you are a bad commenter. That never happened.
I also never said that “you snipe” as if you do it all the time. I said you were sniping about Pete Buttigieg in 2019.
I’m sorry you were offended by that, but it doesn’t help for you to overgeneralize and misrepresent what I said.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: He knows what he did.
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: I was teasing! But I want to be sure that you took note that there are two other options besides dessert when you have someone pied.
Just seeing the commennt number, and seeing some dessert related sayings.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: Dear god, one of the last things I would want to do is to make Baud happen. What an unmitigated disaster that would be.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: He has never been mean to me. I think he secretly likes you.
VFX Lurker
Pie her, and anyone else who annoys you. I pied plenty of regulars here in July when they annoyed me, including a commenter who I had respected for years.
schrodingers_cat
@VFX Lurker: OT art question. Have you used Faber Castell Pitt matt pencils.
Omnes Omnibus
@VFX Lurker: Was it me? Oh, wait, someone you had respected. Never mind.
Jackie
@WaterGirl: Suddenly I feel transported to jr high/middle school…
JaySinWA
No, it’s not. /ducks
No really, your are not alone in that feeling
ETA My fingers managed to drop a “not” out of that previous line. Sorry.
VFX Lurker
I have not used physical media in years. I think I used to use Staedler Mars pencils. However, I remember loving Faber Castell Pitt brush pens. Maybe their pencils are good, too.
In the animation industry, a much-loved pencil was the Eberhard Faber Blackwing 602, which did not target artists and was discontinued in 1998. An approximation of this pencil was re-released in 2010 as the “Palomino Blackwing.”
Wishing you success on finding the right pencil. 😃
WaterGirl
@Jackie: I was having a similar thought. Unless you are directing that to me as participating in that, in which case that’s a major self-awareness fail on my part!
CaseyL
I honestly don’t understand how anything related to campaigning can be within a President’s – any President’s – “official duties” because, IIUC, the actual Constitution SAYS that the President has no official role in elections.
I mean, yes, of course SCOTUS ignored that when it ignored any difference between “campaign” and “govern” in order to give Trump immunity for inciting an insurrection. Everyone from here to Proxima Centauri now knows this SCOTUS is irredeemably corrupt.
But I don’t agree that lower courts should give that corrupt reasoning any respect. Au contraire, they should reach decisions that explicitly throw that corruption back in SCOTUS’ face by reiterating that the Executive has no legitimate role in elections, and if a President interferes in an election, it is ipso facto as a candidate, not as the Executive.
Shouting into the void, I know. But there should be a court record showing that legitimate courts still fought the good fight against SCOTUS’ corruption.
schrodingers_cat
@WaterGirl: My opinion about Pete Buttigieg was a well reasoned one an opinion you disagreed with, so you characterized it as sniping.
Jackie
@WaterGirl: No, not at all! Just an observation.
schrodingers_cat
Sniper out. Enjoy your echo chamber.
lowtechcyclist
@JPL:
Or just a quick you’re-kidding-me look, followed by “You realize that doesn’t make a lick of sense.”
rikyrah
@zhena gogolia:
Blue MAGA??
DA PHUQ 😡😡
BellyCat
This is the TLDR summary.
Manyakitty
@zhena gogolia: sometimes it’s best. Pie or quotes or blank squares have to be less obnoxious. Just ridiculous.
Ruckus
I have to say that the pie filter has worked pretty good for me. I very rarely have used it but I’d bet that of most/all of those I’ve pied, I cannot be the only one, because they disappeared rather quickly. And I haven’t felt the need to pie anyone in a rather long time.
Ruckus
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Effectively he is.
He just doesn’t use a gun, he uses a courtroom, judge and jury. Much more effective and the guilty party often gets to sit around for years and think about why they are sitting around for years.
Ruckus
@Baud:
I wonder how many people still are on X after Elon bought it.
I was before he did, but haven’t been since about a week or two after. It really wasn’t worth the time before that but it massively hasn’t been since.
schrodingers_cat
@Ruckus: Journalists and politicians are still on it, not just from the US but from the world. Twitter has been degraded by Musk on purpose but it is still useful if you want to follows the news and newsmakers.
Atrele
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Jack Smith SOUNDS like a hitman’s name.