Cake or No Cake, that was the question!
Either way, I am pretty sure that Madame VP would approve of cake.
Justice Merchan Decision:
Here is the breakdown of Judge Merchan's decision to delay Trump's sentencing in the NY election interference trial: pic.twitter.com/ccVN4XbtH5
— Katie Phang (@KatiePhang) September 6, 2024
thylacine
I know this is a sad comment on this country, but I’m not actually sure which side this benefits. Trump’s turnout might be jacked by a sentencing.
PaulWartenberg
(deep inhale)
(Imagine the loudest, longest, deepest, angriest, window-shakingist F-BOMB in the whole of human history)
(the F-Bomb echoes across even the vacuum of space, shattering lesser worlds like Mars and tilting Jupiter on its axis)
(a passing Vulcan science ship receives the F-Bomb while passing the solar system at impulse speed, and document it with a notice that this solar system should be avoided for another 60 years)
Baud
@thylacine: That’s my guess too. But it’s just a guess.
trollhattan
@thylacine: Being nearly shot didn’t bump his #s much, and temporarily at the most. Sentencing shouldn’t do much more–unless he went straight to the clinker. That I think would stir up the armed morons.
Omnes Omnibus
I don’t agree with the decision, but I don’t think it changes much. We need to win at the polls. That has always been the case.
WaterGirl
I will most definitely be getting takeout tiramisu from the new Italian place tonight. I am thinking of possibly getting two pieces – one so I can consider just planting my face in it to drown my sorrows, and another to eat and savor, as tiramisu deserves.
WaterGirl
The state of our judicial system is just sad.
Special rules for the not-so-special boy. Make that suprer-priveleged-man-child.
Mag
I don’t understand why the SCOTUS immunity for Trump ruling impacts this case at all. Didn’t Trump’s paying hush money to interfere with and influence the outcome of the 2016 presidential election happen before he took the oath of office? How is paying hush money an official act of the president?
David Fud
I will simply say that this MFer always manages to slip the trap he puts himself in. I am glad if it keeps the presidency in our hands, but note that it is just another instance of someone like him getting undeserved benefits from his class and skin color.
Carlo Graziani
@WaterGirl: Very appropriate. “Tirami su” means “pick me up” in Italian. A pick-me-up is the kind of cake you appear to need right now.
Baud
If Merchan decides to impose a light sentence, I’m happy for the delay. Any sentence would anger the other side, while a light sentence would depress our side.
hitchhiker
And there he was, with his fundraising emails and blurts all set to go.
They’re trying to put me in prison before the election!!! This is the most unfair sentence in the history of the world!!! Send money NOW so I can fight on your behalf!!!
Sorry, bozo. Probably the judge just cost you about $50 million.
And we still get to watch you twisting in the wind while we work to get out the vote.
Seems like an okay outcome to me.
ETA: Merchan’s language about public confidence in our judiciary system is pretty hard to take in these circumstances. That ship sailed and sank a long time ago.
japa21
@Mag: The question is whether some of the testimony which was about conversations that took place after he was sworn in should be nullified disallowed, thus making the verdict invalid.
SatanicPanic
I have mentioned this from time to time but- the idea that the neocons were all about oil and nothing else always struck me as kind of questionable. Especially after Fahrenheit 9/11, which involved a decent amount of conspiracy theorizing. I’ve since come to terms with the idea that they probably were sincere in creating democracies around the world, they were just terrible at doing it. And their end goal of a market economy + democracy with very little regulation wasn’t a good one.
RepubAnon
@Mag: Trump’s habit of paying bills late saved him – he wrote the checks after he took office…
Carlo Graziani
@Baud: Any idea what parameters the NY court sentencing guidelines set for Merchan’s decision?
Wapiti
@Mag: iirc, the prosecution had some of Trump’s White House staff testify to show that Trump totally controlled his financial moves. And the supreme count said that not only is the President immune, all interactions with staff are presumed to be within the scope of the President’s duty.
Thank the god of Leonard Leo that the US Constitution allows the supreme court to write new laws without input from Congress or the President.
Hoodie
@thylacine: There’s that and also the fact that the sentence might end up being pretty minor. Marchan has to go by the guidelines irrespective of who the defendant is and my understanding is that the sentence for a first time offender for this particular crime tends to be light, maybe a fine and probation. This might have allowed Trump say it was a hyped-up charge. Now it’s just hanging out there.
Tony G
@Omnes Omnibus: Yup. From my point of view — for at least the past 8 years — nothing that happens in the real world can have much impact on elections. Trump supporters are a cult who are immune to facts and logic. The majority of Americans — who hate Trump — are going to hate him no matter what. Anybody who is “undecided” at this point is just to stupid to be affected by anything.
stacib
@Omnes Omnibus: Considering the reason the sentencing is now so close to the election is because trump kept delaying things, why do you think Judge Marchan is allowing him this kind of grace?
Baud
@Carlo Graziani: No idea. I recall, perhaps incorrectly, that LAO, who is a NY defense attorney, thought he wouldn’t get jail time based on sentencing in similar cases.
Ishiyama
This is brilliant! After the election, the Judge is free to give him the maximum sentence and send him straight to prison, whether he wins or loses! No worries about the sentence influencing the election; the inauguration? That remains to be seen.
Chet Murthy
@SatanicPanic: I remember that even though almost all (all?) German conservatives supported the Nazis initially, over time many realized it was a bad deal: the Nazis were perfectly happy to dispossess rich conservatives of their assets and in general lawlessness meant that they couldn’t count on the courts to defend them. I’ve always believed that that’s why the Cheneys ended up siding with the Dems: it wasn’t defense of democracy, as much as it was “this is -our- property, and that jumped-up brothelkeeper’s grandson thinks he’s gonna take it from us? Fuck Him!”
I mean, Darth Cheney and his spawn were always 100% down for all the voter suppression and shit they could get away with, always down with the entire Movement Conservatism thing. They just though they could control it, and when they lost control, well, when you lose control of your pet monster, you put it down, you don’t try to reason with it.
sab
@Chet Murthy: Liz Cheney still claims to believe (and may actually believe) that antifa and Black Lives Matter did more damage than Proud Boys and MAGAts to American cities after George Floyd was murdered.
Jeffro
@PaulWartenberg: poor Mars!
(but I hear you – pun not intended – I hear you)
KatKapCC
I’m frustrated that Merchan says by doing this, he’s ensuring that Trump is NOT being treated differently, when to me (and most people, I’d imagine) it sure seems like he is.
Another Scott
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t know if he was right or wrong to have the delay. The reasoning seems accurate, even if it is unfortunate. Equal justice is still a work in progress… :-/
As you say, we’ve known for many, many years that the courts – even the good courts – won’t save us because of the reactionaries on the SCOTUS.
TCFFG has been convicted. He’s a felon. That hasn’t changed.
The sentence is coming, and will be appealed, and things will continue to drag out for months.
We have to vote the monsters out, and then start doing the work to fix these nonsensical things that the SCOTUS wants us to believe are right and proper and normal.
Eyes on the prizes.
Forward!!
Cheers,
Scott.
piratedan
@Omnes Omnibus: its been five+ years since these crimes were committed and it shoudn’t matter a damn if he’s running for office, he been found guilty. Sentence him. He did the crime, render judgement for those crimes as per the verdict of the jury. He’s not special, he’s a felon.
If Michael Cohen did three years for the same crimes at the direction of DJT, I have a hard time understanding how an equivalent sentence wouldn’t be justified.
judicial Comeyism at play.
Omnes Omnibus
@stacib: One factor that comes into play is that the fucked up immunity decision threw a wrench in the timing.
K-Mo
(Bargaining Phase initiated)
OK I’ll let this go. Just give me a successful debate on Tuesday.
Omnes Omnibus
@piratedan: I said I didn’t agree with the decision. Didn’t I?
TBone
I am so tired of this Very Special Boy skating, unscathed, on to the next disaster. His criming will never cease.
Running for relection to stay out of prison.
Wonkette covers it:
https://www.wonkette.com/p/trump-sentencing-postponed-again
piratedan
@Omnes Omnibus: I know you did, I’m just venting. Didn’t mean to imply that you were at fault. Trump is proving that Bobby Fuller was full of shite.
KatKapCC
@SatanicPanic: More surprised by him than her. I suspected he thought Trump was a moron, but considering he served as GWB’s VP, he clearly has no problem with morons in politics. Although to be fair, compared to Trump, Bush is basically Stephen Hawking.
TBone
@Baud: but they’re angry about absolutely everything all the time anyway no matter what it is – the election is not a calculation that Judge Merchan should take into consideration at all. He’s said as much, himself.
TBone
Rump’s unhinged response to *waves hand all of this
https://digbysblog.net/2024/09/06/todays-unhinged-trump-rant/
sab
@Omnes Omnibus: Also too the immunity wrench. The judge cannpt just proceed, because the Supreme Court just reinvented 250 years of American law. As originalists they prefer English monarchical law, but our climate is so much better that they stay here instead of emigrating.
Roberts wouldn’t like modern Ireland. They have issues with Catholicism gone rampant in maternity wards.
Baud
@TBone:
Yes, but they have levels of motivational anger just like everyone else, and I’d prefer not to trigger higher motivation.
I didn’t say he should. All I’m saying is that I think we benefit from the delay.
Omnes Omnibus
@TBone: Aside from delayed gratification, how does this change the situation we are in? No judge would put him behind bars before his appeals were up. That would never happen before the election under any circumstances. Appeals don’t happen that quickly. We sneed to win in November. We have always needed to win in November.
sab
@Omnes Omnibus: I am so glad that you and Baud are here protecting American jurisprudence from mob rule.
That sounds snarky but it isn’t intended that way. Legal processes take a while. I would rather have a fair trial late than a railroaded trial early. And if we take down the orange cloud I want it flawless legally. As I would want my trial.
oldgold
To avoid the appearance that “the proceeding has been affected … by the Presidential election” the Judge does exactly that – affects the proceeding because of the proximity of Presidential election.
In all the cases Trump’s game plan was delay. The Judges and Justices have aided and abetted this game plan through cowardice and/or corruption.
Citizen Alan
@TBone: My prediction: “Sanewashing” will be the OED’s “Word of the Year.”
Betty Cracker
@hitchhiker:
Amen. “Equal Justice Under Law” my ass.
Ishiyama
@oldgold: “The Mills of the Gods grind slowly,
Yet they grind exceeding small.”
TBone
@Citizen Alan: 👍
K-Mo
@Citizen Alan: I’d settle for word of the month. Let it sweep the waves till the end of September like “weird” did in August.
TBone
I rest my case:
https://digbysblog.net/2024/09/06/trump-gets-another-reprieve/
Situational awareness: same as yesterday (*foot taps incessantly, looking at appeal clock that goes on forever)…
mrstealyourcostcosample
@Omnes Omnibus: this is correct, and has always been correct re: Trump. he’s a political problem. Garland (and Mueller before him, and Merchan after him) were never going to give (White) voters an out where Trump would just go away and they’d be back to Romney Republicans.
either the people reject Trump or not. it’s not really a legal thing, it’s a political thing with incidental (frequent, pronounced, but still largely incidental to the problem) convergence with the legal system.
oldgold
@Ishiyama: BS
Chet Murthy
@Ishiyama: in retrospect, that is absolutely hilarious.
randy khan
I’m not particularly surprised, especially considering that the prosecution took no position on waiting.
As I see it, Merchan found himself in a weird position because of the Supreme Court creating Presidential immunity out of thin air and then extending it to cover evidence related to official acts. That let Team Trump file its motion claiming that the immunity decision requires the verdict to be thrown out. It’s malarkey, for a bunch of reasons, but Merchan has to take it seriously , and until he rules on it, there would be an argument (not legal, but in the court of public opinion) that sentencing Trump is premature. I certainly want him to nail down the immunity issue as soon as possible, but I also want those nails to be hammered in so far that there’s nothing you can do to pull them out. (Sorry for the metaphor abuse, but you know what I mean.)
And it’s not like Trump would go into the pokey right after sentencing. Since he’s already filed an appeal, it’s likely he could stay free until that plays out.
Also, as I said at LGM, you might infer from this decision that Merchan plans to impose prison time. If it were just going to be probation, the concerns he cites wouldn’t really be nearly as significant.
UncleEbeneezer
@sab: THIS! I had jury duty this year for a criminal trial for crimes alleged to have occurred SEVEN YEARS AGO!! That’s how slow things can move, even without all the Constitutional entanglements that come with a Former President being involved.
Barb McQuade (former US Attorney) said in 2022 that she would be surprised to see Trump convicted (in Special Counsel cases) before the 2024 election, solely based on all the stuff that needed to happen, all the possible delays, SCOTUS etc. I learned to accept that and it was one of the best decisions I ever made because instead of flipping out over delays like this, I expect them.
SatanicPanic
@Chet Murthy: I don’t agree with that. Most of the Neocon establishment has pretty much disowned Trump and only a handful probably have big money at stake. Yes, Cheney is in favor of a skewed and somewhat unfair democracy, but they legitimately prefer that over dictatorship.
TBone
Last time I checked, the “political problem” has been convicted of actual illegal crimes and, since Michael Cohen was speedily processed for participation in the same scheme, I don’t feel sillly for expecting the same treatment of the Very Special Boy. I understand the arguments for and against, but Michael Cohen doesn’t.
Chet Murthy
@SatanicPanic: Back during Dubya’s Reign of Error, at one point Cheney had an event someplace. A grandfather and his grandson went by and mouthed something derogatory about Cheney within earshot of the guys guarding the place. Maybe they were po-po. They were arrested and charged, I forget for what, and Google will not cough up an article about it.
Cheney was -always- OK with dictatorship, as long as he got to be in charge. What he saw with TCFG, was that he wouldn’t be in charge, and he and his buddies might be dispossessed. That is -all- that’s happening here.
Also, sure, many neocons have had a bit of a conversion. We can read Jen Rubin and wonder whether she was ever a Republican (sometimes, only sometimes). Ditto Tom Nichols. But Darth and Darth Jr. aren’t like the typical neocon-now-never-trumper.
gratuitous
Imagine yourself as a juror who convicted the felon. Or a prosecutor. Or a witness. Or a family member of any of those people. Or a family member of the judge. You watched with grim satisfaction the conviction of the felon on no fewer than 34 counts. Maybe you even mused, “The system works.” And you’re looking forward to judgment day, when the sentence is determined.
And today, in the interests of justice, the judge decides that sentencing can be put off for another two months. Because it might interfere with the election, or something? In the interests of justice, whose justice is being served? The victims of the convicted felon? The folks whose lives were turned upside down to participate in this prosecution, who heard on a near daily basis the threats and calumny breathed by the defendant? Maybe you even got a threatening e-mail or voice mail – is this postponement in the interest of justice for you?
Was the trial fair? Conducted in open court? Governed by well-established rules of evidence and criminal procedure? It was? Whose justice is being served here? Is justice being served for the voters? Will they vote in good faith for a convicted felon, rationalizing that he might not be guilty since he’s not currently in the slammer? What about justice for the voters who don’t support the felon? Is justice being served for them, having to invest far more time and money on behalf of their chosen candidate because the convicted felon has tossed some more spaghetti at the wall in hopes that some of it might stick?
And judges are wondering why their court’s integrity is a subject for discussion.
Ishiyama
@Chet Murthy: Do you remember what Solon told Croesus?
Chet Murthy
@Ishiyama: no idea to what you refer.
ETA: I’m laughing b/c back during “Mueller time” that “mills of God” thing was widely cited in German, where apparently Mueller is something like “miller” or something. I forget. Everybody was citing it as a sort of mantra that Mueller was taking his time, but when he delivered, by gum TCFG would be done for. Ha. Fuckin. Ha.
zhena gogolia
@Chet Murthy: Mueller did his job. Read the report. And I miss our esteemed commenter whose exact nym I have woefully forgotten [sob].
Omnes Omnibus
Also fwiw, postponements of sentencing hearings are not unheard of in run of the mill criminal trials. Scheduling conflicts, new information that would affect the sentencing decision, etc., can come into play.
gene108
However many millions Trump’s paying in legal fees, he’s gotten his money’s worth.
I am curious if these cases will be resolved when Trump runs again in 2028.
Sure Lurkalot
@WaterGirl:
And our media, that characterizes incoherent streams of mouth words as a “major economic speech” or “housing policy”. And the Army, FEC and DOD, apparently too afraid of “repercussions” to do anything about the Arlington Cemetery incident.
E. Jean Carroll didn’t back down, we could surely use a few more of her kind.
Ishiyama
@Chet Murthy: https://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/The_Myths/Solon_and_Croesus/solon_and_croesus.html
UncleEbeneezer
@mrstealyourcostcosample: The worst part about all the whining is that the legal system is actually working!
• Thomas Windom was literally in court yesterday getting Jack Smith’s Jan 6 case moving again.
• Smith just filed an appeal to the 11th Circuit which will likely resuscitate the Stolen Documents case and possibly get it moved to a better judge. And even here,
• the sentencing is only on temporary pause.
But people are mad because their fantasies of Merchan/Chutkan throwing Trump in jail before the election (which was never likely for a whole host of reasons that have nothing to do with the system being unfair) aren’t coming true.
I swear my toddler tennis students have a better understanding/acceptance of the fact that life doesn’t pander to our wishes, than the BJ commentariat.
Omnes Omnibus
@Chet Murthy: “You should count no man happy until he dies.”
Ishiyama
This
SatanicPanic
@Chet Murthy: I don’t really find that compelling. Yes, he’s happy to set up a stratified society where he has extra power, but that’s a far cry from wanting a dictatorship.
gene108
@Chet Murthy:
Trump’s going to skate. Even the NYC charges will be dismissed on appeal.
The money for his civil suits, once the appeals courts reduce his liability, will be paid by a mysterious benefactor from a far off land.
Every Republican prefers a dictatorship with Republicans in charge and unaccountable politicians running things. No system was ever designed to survive a major part of that system actively trying to undermine it.
When Republicans get back into power, and they will because they have a strong base of support, look for Project 2025 to be updated and dusted off.
UncleEbeneezer
@gratuitous: Imagine the judge issuing the sentencing today and because of that it gets killed on appeal. Criminal goes free because the judge refused to avoid an obvious potential landmine that would get the ruling reversed. The whole reason DOJ has it’s 60-day rule around elections is not just to protect the rights of the accused but also to protect its’ cases. I think that’s precisely the same logic that Merchan is operating under here.
Omnes Omnibus
@UncleEbeneezer: People’s expectations of the judicial system are strongly influenced by TV and movies. They leave out all the motion practice and discovery work that constitute the majority of a litigator’s working life. A lot of it is sheer drudgery. You can palm some off on paralegals, but some of the scut work has to be done by actual lawyers. A realistic show about criminal lawyers would be unwatchable.
Chet Murthy
@Omnes Omnibus: @Ishiyama: Two thoughts:
Chet Murthy
@SatanicPanic: He was perfectly willing to destroy all our civil liberties and use the strong arm of unreviewable and secret government power to do whatever he wanted. As Ta-Nehisi Coates pointed out, Jim Crow, which to white Americans looked like an imperfect democracy was a totalitarian regime that meted out death and dispossession on a whim, to Black Americans.
And he was working hard to entrench that power so that he and his successors could not be removed: remember the US Attorneys scandal.
TBone
@Omnes Omnibus: having done a lot of that grunt work myself, I am well aware of what goes on. My expectations do not come from TV shows or movies. This isn’t a matter of gratification.
Omnes Omnibus
@Chet Murthy: The point is you don’t know what the end result is going to be. Neither do I. Nor does anyone else.
SatanicPanic
@Chet Murthy: I think I covered those things with my comment on what kind of democracy he wants.
And I really don’t think there’s anything in it for him to stand up and urge people to vote for Harris. He’s been retired for a decade at least, and Trump wouldn’t have any reason to go after him if he weren’t saying anything.
UncleEbeneezer
@Ishiyama: Not to mention, comparing this to ordinary criminal trials is a category error. The only way to know if this is fair or not would be to compare it to other situations where a POTUS Candidate is being sentenced right before an election. This is literally, unprecedented and there is nothing to compare it to. There are valid reasons why our justice system treats major political candidates right before their elections, differently than people who are not in that category. I want our judges to take concerns of political persecution (and even the appearance of them) seriously.
gratuitous
@UncleEbeneezer: I disagree. The DOJ’s totally voluntary and self-imposed 60 day rule is for beginning an investigation. In this case, the investigation has been conducted, evidence presented to a grand jury, which indicted the accused, who has had his day in court, been convicted by a jury of 12 good citizens and true, and is now awaiting sentence to be imposed.
Any appeal of that sentence wouldn’t get past the filing of a notice of appeal in the next 60 days, even if it was filed before the end of business today. While it might be in the judge’s discretion to postpone imposition of the sentence until the defendant’s appeals are exhausted, the sentence would be on the books even if it wasn’t currently being served. It would hang over the defendant’s head like the dark cloud that constantly dogged Joe Btfsplk in Lil Abner. And he would deserve it.
KatKapCC
@UncleEbeneezer: Do you think Trump has not been treated differently throughout all of his legal issues than any other person would be?
Omnes Omnibus
@TBone: Then you should know how slowly the legal system can work. I am not saying it is good or bad thing. I am saying that is how it works and people who expect it to work differently are uninformed or fooling themselves.
Geminid
@Chet Murthy: Croesus also died in his bed but he didn’t neccesarily die happy. At least, not nearly as happy as he was when he bragged to Solon.
Matt McIrvin
@SatanicPanic: I think Dick Cheney would be fine with a dictatorship with his preferred foreign policy, which Trump does not share because he is partly some weird type of pre-FDR conservative isolationist, and partly an admirer of the type of foreign strongmen that Cheney usually wants to go to war with.
Omnes Omnibus
@UncleEbeneezer: One of the things that comes into play here is that the judges (Cannon excepted) know that they can’t afford to get this shit wrong.
gene108
@UncleEbeneezer:
I’m normally not negative towards other commentators or try not to be, but you are being a condescending ass here.
This isn’t wish fulfillment. It’s about basic motherfucking accountability for the President of the United States of America for inciting a coup to stay in office, even though he clearly lost.
It’s about holding a former President to the same laws we are all bound to without any special considerations, which the Court system and a whole fuck ton of people in this country refuse to do.
If I had access to classified material, took them home, refused to give them back, said I’d give them back but lied about not giving everything back, I doubt a district court fucking judge will bend over backwards to throw the case out.* I doubt the SCOTUS will pull a new standard of absolute immunity out of their assholes to reduce the chances I go to jail for trying to overthrow the government.
This is a justice system bending over backwards to exonerate Trump, and make sure he never suffers a damn thing for a time that’d have gotten anyone else a very long jail sentence by now.
IT IS NOT GOD DAMN WORKING!!!!
*I worked for a company that has a few small DOD (by DOD standards) contracts. I was our FSO. I’ve been through enough security training to know my ass would be serving a long prison sentence for doing what Trump did regarding taking classified documents home after being fired from my job.
**Not only would I be in trouble, my employer would have its as in a sling for not better securing classified documents.
***Probably some DOD employees would be in the Finding Out stage of such a massive security failure.
****DSS people that granted the clearance would also be in the Finding Out phase.
SatanicPanic
@Matt McIrvin: I don’t. I think neocons are mostly sincere with their intentions.
Jackie
Has it been mentioned that Liz Cheney also hates Cancun Cruz and is endorsing Colin Allred?
That stunned me more than her endorsement for Harris!
I haven’t seen a link; it was shown on Nicolle Wallace’s show.
Scout211
Here you go.
TBone
@Omnes Omnibus: from August to December, in a related case.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/a-guide-to-michael-cohens-sentencing
artem1s
@SatanicPanic:
Bullshit. They are in favor of Oligarchies. They only support democracy insofar as they got to control who was elected. They invented the puppet POTUS. First with Raygun and then with W. Cheney and the rest were fine with Trump trampling democracy as long as they could still control him. They hardly batted an eye when the GOP turned on Jeb. All they really cared about was making sure Hillary didn’t get elected. They’d be in exactly the same mind set if the convicted felon hadn’t lead the GOP to the brink of annihilation.
UncleEbeneezer
@KatKapCC: You mean any other wealthy, former-Presidents?
Republicans and SCOTUS and Cannon have absolutely done their best to obstruct attempts at bringing him to Justice and that sucks. But that’s not a failure of the system, imo, it’s a failure of voters to let those assholes get into such crucial positions of power. I don’t think that tells us anything about the System™ in general. I think Merchan, Chutkan and the judge for E. Jean Carroll case, have all acted about as I would expect, in line with their duties. I’m not outraged by this decision even though I think it’s fair to criticize.
Omnes Omnibus
@TBone: Oh you are suggesting that the sentencing of a cooperating defendant who pleaded guilty would proceed at the same pace as that of a defendant who is still contesting every issue and has had an intervening Supreme Court decision that man or may not affect the validity of some of the charges? Is that what you are saying?
SatanicPanic
@artem1s: I just don’t think the evidence is that compelling. Yes, they prefer a strong president, but dictatorship is another story. I asked this upthread- what’s in it for him to say anything right now? He’s been retired for years.
Omnes Omnibus
@UncleEbeneezer: Your last sentence sums it up for me. I don’t think it was the right decision, but I don’t think it was outrageous either.
Lyrebird
@Scout211: This is so fantastic!
I am glad she is there stumping for Allred!
gene108
@UncleEbeneezer:
Republicans make up half-ish of the people running the government from federal and state courts to elected offices from city council to Congress.
The Institutions are made up of people and what they do determines what actions Institutions will take. Institutions are very personal things, which are heavily influenced by the integrity and honor of people in those Institutions.
If the SCOTUS is corrupt, if Judge Cannon cares more about being in Trump’s good books than the law, if GA Republicans derail Willis’s case, etc., it isn’t a few bad apples in the system, but rather entire Institutions that now operate for the benefit of the “bad apples”, because the people running things decide what Institutions are.
UncleEbeneezer
@gene108: When these cases are all dead and buried I will move to The System Failed. They are not. All of them (except MAL Documents which will probably be back up and running soon) are still alive and moving forward. Until then, we are just arguing about how/when we’d like to see them play out and using that as our metric. Sorry but Trump-Should-Be-In-Jail-Already is not an argument to convince me that the System has failed.
Ishiyama
All my experience would have me advising my client to get his affairs in order; that the Judge is likely to throw the book at him. These concessions on timing are not a good sign for a lenient sentence. That’s why the Prosecution took no position, because they thought that a sentence before the election would be too lenient.
UncleEbeneezer
@Omnes Omnibus: Don’t get me wrong, I’m definitely not happy about it. But I don’t think it’s completely bonkers. And I can acknowledge that my disappointment is more based on what I wanted to see, rather than on what a functioning legal system promises.
lowtechcyclist
@TBone:
Stupidheads Wildly Indignant about Nearly Everything
(repurposing Al Capp)
TBone
@lowtechcyclist: excellent appropriation of a classic!
TBone
@Ishiyama: 👍
TBone
@Omnes Omnibus: I did not say the cases were comparable, I said they were related. Your inference is on you, please do not put words in my mouth.
prostratedragon
Something to slake unsatisfied animus: TFG as you’ve never seen him before. I think the hands are too big.
artem1s
@SatanicPanic:
Your ignoring all the evidence. 50 years of it. All the damage he did to the world and the people who died just so his companies could get unbid war contracts. All of the deregulation and privatization to de-fang the EPA and other regulatory agencies. Where do you think the Chevron case came from? How does Deep Water Horizon safety failures represent his support of democracy?
Omnes Omnibus
@TBone: Then what was your point? Why post the timeframe of a related case if you didn’t expect people to draw some inference from it?
TBone
This goes great with Solace Cake!
Tonight, 8pm: Turner Classic Movies kicks off its newest limited series, “Making Change: The Most Significant Political Films of All Time.” This series will feature films that were ranked by The New Republic Magazine.
https://www.nprillinois.org/community-voices-2024/2024-09-05/front-row-classics-talks-making-change-with-tcms-ben-mankiewicz
First up: The Battle of Algiers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_of_Algiers
WaterGirl
@Ishiyama:
That’s an interesting take. Seems like you must be an attorney. I didn’t have you on my unofficial radar as one of our attorneys on Balloon Juice.
Ishiyama
@WaterGirl: I’ve alluded to my education & experience in comments, but I am not well known, outside of a small circle of friends.
Albatrossity
Not the same as seeing the orange menace in leg-irons, but good news nonetheless.
SatanicPanic
@artem1s: I’m not ignoring anything. Deepwater Horizon was an industrial accident, that’s not relevant to democracy in any meaningful way. I said upthread he wants a deregulated economy and a power structure that is mostly old white people. That’s not a dictatorship, that’s just old-style Republican governance. We’ve had that since at least Thomas Jefferson.
gene108
@UncleEbeneezer:
My point is not that Trump should be in jail.
My point is systems and institutions are only as good as the people running them.
I understand the argument Omnes makes about delays being given for personal situations. I’ve been involved in civil suits and the courts do make accommodations, which will be maddening for the other side.
Unlike those cases, the SCOTUS has not put its foot on the scale in favor of one party or the other. There are not a bunch of judges appointed by one of the parties in the suit, who will be happy to be as one sided as possible.
My lack of faith in the system comes for the special treatment Trump is given. In my view, one of the first things Trump will do if he loses is declare his candidacy for the 2028 Republican presidential nomination.
If his being a candidate is a wrinkle in legal proceedings now, it will not stop after this election.
To be reassured, I’d have like the cases to have gone to trial. Note, I’m not talking about a conviction or Trump being found guilty. I just want to see the other three cases – the federal cases and the GA case – go to trial.
I think the electorate has a right to know all the facts in those cases to make an informed decision in this election. The trials not starting also unfairly taints the electorates ability to make an informed decision on the candidates.*
Whatever points in the System to hold Trump accountable for insurrection from conviction in the Senate to SCOTUS taking its own sweet time to come out heavily in favor of Trump’s immunity arguments, have all failed or bent to accommodate him. The same goes for Cannon’s slanted handling of the documents case, and GA Republicans stalling the Fulton county case.
As I’ve noted, systems are only as good as the people running them. It seems to me that a fair number of people in the systems that are supposed to hold Trump accountable are rooting for him to beat the charges.
Unless Democrats win the White House, keep the Senate, nuke the filibuster, and retake the House and embark on a series of ethics reforms, I fully believe not only will Trump’s cases never go to trial but there will be other coup attempts.
I do not share your optimism about the System.
*Edit: No court seems to consider the lack of information the public has received about the facts underlying Trump’s indictments as a big of an issue of how unfair it would be to Trump to have to stand trial before the election. It’s a very one sided view that Trump has successfully sold to the public and the courts.
Miki
@Ishiyama: Thanks for this. Your experience – like mine and other past and present practicing attorneys posting here – informs a specific context where actual client representation before an actual judge in an actual open court on the record matters. It can be a heavy lift and sometimes the judge decides you’re wrong and, even If you’re right, your client loses.
That’s how it works – and, ultimately, it does work.
Except with this corrupt SCOTUS.
WaterGirl
@Miki: I had never caught that you are / have been an attorney, either. I need to pay better attention!
(or have less to do, so I can actually start to read all the threads again)
Another Scott
@Ishiyama: [ snort! ]
It would be yet another example of “be careful what you wish for”, wouldn’t it?
:-)
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Miki
@WaterGirl: No worries, WG. I get pissed on and off when some commenters flay the law but that’s a personal problem, which is why I don’t step in.
None of this is easy, and none of us are 100% right, which is why I still ❤️ BJ.
Kayla Rudbek
@Miki: it’s a good reminder that law gets specialized very quickly once you actually start practicing it. I haven’t had to really consider criminal law practice since I was in law school.
WaterGirl
@Miki: Balloon Juice sometimes reminds me of what we used to say when I worked at the University.
Put 11 tech people in a room, and you’ll get 11 different opinions.
Randal Sexton
This is an interesting thread, particularly hearing from those actual legal types.
But –
Simply put, there is something different about the Trump crimes, and something missing from our norms? our legal system ? – that Trump is exploiting possibly to point of destruction of our system –
Election crimes need to be resolved before the next election.
Particularly when the winner of an election can undo the crimes to which they committed to get elected.
I have to say to all you very experienced legal eagles that it enrages me that this is not something that is obvious to you. So when I read something like ‘I am a lawyer and this sort of delay is just how it works’ I tend to want to kick you in the shins a bit. Similar to how I feel that we now have to take whatever made up crap the SCOtUS does and think, well that is now how things work. No. Admit the legal system is kinda breaking and deal with it.
BellyCat
Now that’s just crazy talk…