Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

Welcome to day five of every-bit-as-bad-as-you-thought-it-would-be.

Republican also-rans: four mules fighting over a turnip.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

I like political parties that aren’t owned by foreign adversaries.

Mediocre white men think RFK Jr’s pathetic midlife crisis is inspirational. The bar is set so low for them, it’s subterranean.

Not loving this new fraud based economy.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

People are complicated. Love is not.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

“woke” is the new caravan.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Concepts of A Plan

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Concepts of A Plan

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(A point made more crudely — using manosphere terms — by a parody account here.)

… The defining image of the night will be the wide shots of the stage: a dour Trump—appearing joyless and increasingly agitated—never seemed to look at Harris once. She, by contrast, shifted her body to the right when he spoke, turning to him like a mother addressing a child in tantrum, or to look on confusedly as he went on a rant.

In the end, Harris beat Trump at the business of television, which is a remarkable achievement, and probably one that Trump will rue. For him, television is gospel.

Harris and her team get most of the credit for this. The preparations she made for the night were evident throughout. She and her aides went in with a plan to bait Trump into overreactions. And he took it—repeatedly fumbling debate sections that would have favored him (on subjects like immigration, inflation, and Afghanistan) to address sideshow topics that Harris tossed out like chum to a hungry shark (just how much was his inheritance???).

Which is to say that it was not just Harris’s prep work but also Trump’s shortcomings that decided the night. He was unable to keep his focus or cool. He never got around to saying he’d veto a national abortion ban, he invited the idea that he’d once more try and repeal Obamacare, and he refused to say he wants Ukraine to win. To be fair, it’s possible that he believes a veto should be off the table, that Obamacare should be repealed, and that the Russians are the good guys. But smart debaters can deftly maneuver around this type of tripwire. Trump allowed Harris to get to the right of him on China and crime. He called himself a leader on “fertilization.” He glommed on to online MAGA’s fever dream that dogs are being eaten by migrants in Ohio. His closing remarks touched on energy policy in . . . Germany…

And it was driven fully home when the debate was over, the second-most-interesting visual of the night was produced. There was Trump, coming out into the spin room, the place where a candidate sends his or her deputies to work the press—since God knows that’s the purview of the plebs, not the person in charge…


Not to get too deep into the details (and leaving aside Chelsea Manning’s case): The ‘transgender operations on illegal aliens in prison‘ accusation went through the Massachusetts legal system in a case a dozen years or so ago. It was ruled that the government owes those in its custody generally accepted standards of medical care, even to particularly vile murderers, and even care that not every citizen agrees *should* be generally accepted. So a detained ‘illegal alien’ would be entitled to hormone replacement and other accommodations, though I doubt there will be a spate of cases where individuals are held in the U.S. long enough to qualify for reassignment surgery.

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Reader Interactions

382Comments

  1. 1.

    Kosh III

    I stole this from someone on Facebook

    “So what happened wuz…a sexually repressed right winger overheard some Haitian say: “I like eating pussy.”

  2. 2.

    Princess

    “Concepts of a plan” is *chefskiss* but also it insulates Harris against any whining that she hasn’t sufficiently fleshed out her policy proposals.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    Good morning. Happy to hear it went well. Sounds like the moderators were a little better than last time.

    From my perusing the internet, “concept of a plan” may be the long-term meme winner, although “they eat cats” will prevail in the short-term.

  4. 4.

    Tony Jay

      NYT HOT-TAKE EXPRESS LINE

    With her calm, assured performance in the face of Trump’s onslaught Harris ‘won’ at the debate – but what is ‘winning’ worth in today’s divided America?

    WAPO Thought Of The Day

    Hannibal. Hitler. Harris. All high-flying superstars who won battles, but lost the war?

  5. 5.

    Ken

    Trump: “The polls are indicating that we got 90%, 60%, 72%, 71%, and 89%.”

    “And when I ask people outside my family….”

    Seriously, where do you suppose he got those numbers?  I expect he invented them on the fly, but it’s possible the person who follows him with the emotional support printer and a mixtape of Cats had pre-printed some fake articles knowing he’d need them.

  10. 10.

    Ken

    @different-church-lady: There are many reasons I hope for a rapid collapse of Trump and Trumpism, but one minor one is that we might finally see the outtakes from “The Apprentice”. If the production assistants are to be believed*, it sometimes took a dozen takes before he could get out “You’re fired”.

    * My main reason for believing them being, as always, that what they say agrees with my priors.

  11. 11.

    prostratedragon

    How alogorithms work: watched a video of highlights of last night’s debate and noticed that a couple of vids down in the queue was one offering rare color footage from inside the Hindenburg.

  12. 12.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    I was super nervous going into that debate last night. Then I thought Harris was winning, but I wasn’t sure I could trust my own biased judgement. So I was extremely relieved to see all the reactions. Harris killed it

  14. 14.

    Old Man Shadow

    Good for her.

    And good to know we won’t be arguing about replacing her with Walz for a month.

  15. 15.

    Jeffro

    I don’t know which I enjoyed more: the “9 years?  And you still don’t have a plan to replace the ACA?” “I HAVE CONCEPTS OF A PLAN!” exchange, or that he actually DOUBLED DOWN ON THE FAKE PET-EATING STORY!

    ye gods, what a night!

  18. 18.

    TBone

    His big moment 😆😳

    Now she wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens that are in prison.

    The medication wasn’t timed correctly.  The entire nation is still laughing at him this morning.

  20. 20.

    Scout211

    Donald Trumpcalled for ABC News to be shut down during a rant about the way he was treated by the network during his presidential debate against Kamala Harris.

    The former president called into Fox & Friendson Wednesday morning to complain that he’d faced a “rigged deal” with the debate, with moderators “correcting everything” he said while “not correcting with her.” Asked why he felt moderators hadn’t corrected Harris in the same way, Trump answered: “Because they’re dishonest.”

    So he went from “I won” to “ABC should be shut down” for rigging the debate in just a few hours.  LOL

  21. 21.

    TBone

    A big moment:

    Now she wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens that are in prison.

    His medication wasn’t timed correctly, and the entire nation is still laughing at him this morning.  I’ll be laughing about all of that debate  for a long time.

  22. 22.

    Kay

    Not that it matters, but media and Republican complaints that the Harris/Walz website isn’t “fleshed out” are nonsense.

    This is (part of) the tax section – the part that applies to 90% of people, those who make less than 400k a year:

    Vice President Harris and Governor Walz believe that working families deserve a break. That’s why under their plan more than 100 million working and middle-class Americans will get a tax cut. They will do this by restoring two tax cuts designed to help middle class and working Americans: the Child Tax Credit and the Earned Income Tax Credit. Through these two programs, millions of Americans get to keep more of their hard-earned income. They will also expand the Child Tax Credit to provide a $6,000 tax cut to families with newborn children. They believe no child in America should live in poverty, and these actions would have a historic impact.

    This is complete, for the average person. What else do media and Republicans want to know about the tax plans? Can they formulate a question or are we supposed to guess what they don’t understand/need clarity on? Are they the representatives of the over 400k annual income group? Okay- ask a question.

  24. 24.

    laura

    I have zero regrets from watching Madam Vice President burn that gruesome shite-bag to the ground. Burnt to the ground. and he knew it too. Then I had cake.

  25. 25.

    TBone

    A big moment 😆

    Now she wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens in prison.

    His handlers screwed up on the medication timing and I’m gonna be laughing for a long time about all of last night

  26. 26.

    Ken

    Interesting speculation from someone on bluesky: Trump may now be vulnerable to another defamation lawsuit, after saying that the exonerated “Central Park five” killed someone.

    If that comes about, I’ll have to rank that statement as my favorite of the debate, even above “concepts of a plan”.

  27. 27.

    Steve LaBonne

    Starting to watch some clips. A strong, smart Black woman humiliated and laughed at Assmouth on national TV, and made him go into narcissistic collapse. It’s absolutely glorious.

  29. 29.

    Yarrow

    @Scout211: He’s a narcissist. Both statements are true for him. Whatever he says at any time is true for him in that moment. Even if the very next second he says the complete opposite. Which is also true for him when he says it.

  30. 30.

    TBone

    Now she wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens in prison.

    I want that one on repeat – the entire nation is still laughing!  Donvict is scared shitless!

  32. 32.

    Warblewarble

    With no solid evidence Biden says that Aysenur Ezgi Eygi was killed accidently by a bullet that ricocheted from the ground, if Trump made such a claim we would have questions. Anyone with a strong enough stomach can google ” Boasts of Israeli snipers”  Even the toady Blinken is not buying this.

  33. 33.

    Kay

    Here’s the section that applies to multi millionaire media celebrities:

    This includes rolling back Trump’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, enacting a billionaire minimum tax, quadrupling the tax on stock buybacks, and other reforms to ensure the very wealthy are playing by the same rules as the middle class. Under her plan, the tax rate on long-term capital gains for those earning a million dollars a year or more will be 28 percent, because when the government encourages investment, it leads to broad-based economic growth and creates jobs, which makes our economy stronger.

    28% for Maggie Haberman, Dana Bash, Jake Tapper and Glenn Greenwald. If they have further questions about their specific asset portfolio they should consult a tax professional.

  34. 34.

    Chris

    I have concepts of a plan.

    Is it bad that I feel kind of sorry that the one line that he’s going to get pilloried for all week is the one time he said something that was kind of true?

    The most you can reasonably expect from any presidential candidate is “the concepts of a plan.”  You can ask for an actual detailed plan of whatever it is we’re talking about, but whatever they tell you is never going to be what they actually implement as president.  Not even because they’re lying to you; simply because whatever plan they have has to survive the House, and then it has to survive the Senate, and then the Supreme Court gets to go through it like a picky toddler taking all the vegetables out of their plate, after all of which the original plan will be unrecognizable.

    (Of course, in this case, he’s obviously lying, either in the sense of not having even “the concepts” of a plan or in the sense that he has the plan and just doesn’t want to say it out loud.  But the actual statement that you have “a concept of a plan” is… unobjectionable).

  36. 36.

    Jeffro

    @Scout211:So he went from “I won” to “ABC should be shut down” for rigging the debate in just a few hours.  LOL

    Maybe our blessed snooze media should take note: this is what he’d do to you all if he wins.  Tow the trump party line at all times, or else.

  38. 38.

    Gloria DryGarden

    I watched 2 summaries, after a friend said the trump part was tedious. So I saw Colbert, in YouTube and a 10 min news discussion, I forget which one. I’m pretty happy. Sounds like MVP Kamala flicked away the dumb stuff sfb said, really stood up powerfully on all her points.

    Heather Cox Richardson’s letter about the debate was great, too.

    Wishing you all a blessed morning.

  39. 39.

    Shalimar

    ABC “moderators” are handling the debate for her

    Maybe he shouldn’t lie so pathetically so there wouldn’t be anything to fact-check.  You think, Glenn?

  40. 40.

    Baud

    @Jeffro: Sulzberger’s long op/ed the other day on the Trump’s threat to the media equated the risk to Biden not doing more interviews. The media knows and doesn’t care.

  41. 41.

    Jeffro

    @Kay:reforms to ensure the very wealthy are playing by the same rules as the middle class.

    why that’s pure blasphemy right there! – GOP, the workers’ party

  42. 42.

    Ken

    @Scout211: with moderators “correcting everything” he said while “not correcting with her.”

    In one sense so close to personal growth, in another still infinitely far away because he’s incapable of self-examination.

    Reminds me of something I saw on bluesky — a screencap of some journalist who’s still on X-twitter, admitting that the place now has a bunch of racists, misogynists, and Nazis, but that  there’s also fewer people disagreeing with him in the comments.

  43. 43.

    artem1s

    The former president called into Fox & Friends on Wednesday morning

    I’d pay good money to make sure he has the direct number to Fuxnews call in line so he can hate call and stalk them until the day he dies. And all the personal cell phones of all the GOPers and pundits who helped create him. They deserve to have to wake up every morning with him ranting nonsense at them.

  48. 48.

    TS

    Taking to myself on the last thread. Look at those pictures of trump – and Nate Silver says

    (via @Ken:  on earlier post)

    And the stature gap in terms of physical size was also notable, especially with Harris having a shorter podium. Sometimes you’ll hear people say that you should watch the debate with the sound off, and by that measure it was much closer than with the sound on.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jilltwiss.bsky.social/post/3l3tzvaknmo2f

    I want what he’s smoking!

    Everything I’ve read – Kamala Harris was so far ahead with body language and facial expressions – even before she answered any questions.

  49. 49.

    Jeffro

    @Baud: NYT =/= the whole of the media

    I get that our legacy or traditional or Beltway or whatever media often follow the Times’ lead, but not all of them, not all the time.

    Let’s see how the next couple of weeks go.  I’ll be interested to see how the coverage shifts.

  50. 50.

    Betty Cracker

    @Chris: Trump was president for four years, during which time his party tried to repeal the ACA dozens of times. If he had a plan to replace it then, as he claimed repeatedly at the time, we could reasonably expect him to cite that same plan as a replacement now. But it was bullshit then, and it’s bullshit now.

  51. 51.

    Kay

    @Warblewarble:

    Agree. Embarrassing. Biden hasn’t contacted the family either.

    Some Americans are worth less than others.

    He has a genuine bias against Palestinians and those who advocate for Palestinians and so do the people he hired at the State Department. It’s a real stain on his presidency. The idea that some of these people are going to leave his administration and pretend to some expertise or belief in “human rights” in their next job after this is just appalling.

    As I have said before the worst part is the gaslighting. That they feel free to go out there and just repeat this absolute nonsense to Americans month after month is alarming. It makes me wonder about everything else they say.

  52. 52.

    TBone

    @Baud: Five attempts went kablooey into the ether and I thought I’d finally been banned!  One of my attempts went into the wrong thread.  Never happened to me before!  Weird!

  55. 55.

    Jeffro

    @TS:Kamala Harris was so far ahead with body language and facial expressions – even before she answered any questions.

    110%.

    Her smiling vs him snarling?  Nailed it.

    And that pensive, “oh really?” look she had – especially the times when she put her hand under her chin in pretend interest in what he was spouting – *chef’s kiss*!

  59. 59.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Scout211: he’s not honest with himself long enough to realize, that he gets corrected and fact checked because he lied, and she doesn’t get corrected because she’s not doing any of that

    .. does he really think everyone is like him, lying all the time?

    I get that his accusations are confession, but they are also projection. He thinks she should get the correction and interference he gets, because he thinks she’s doing what he does.??

    How does he not see the difference?

    Oh, blehhg!

  62. 62.

    Yarrow

    @TS:  Nate Silver has a bad gambling problem and works for Peter Thiel. Everything he says should be seen through that lens.

  64. 64.

    Kay

    @Warblewarble:

    Go watch the State Department briefing on this – they have real reporters there. The reporters are now in open revolt, sick of being lied to day after day after day. The claims get more and more outlandish – now they just make up stories about bullets that magically change direction. The two State Department spokesmen have to be counting the days until they’re done with this job. MONTHS of stonewalling and lying. It’s excruciating to watch.

  65. 65.

    Geminid

    @Ken: I’m hoping a Trump.loss will bring out more revelations as to foreign bribes. I don’t think Egypt’s $10 contribution was the only one.

  67. 67.

    TS

    @Jeffro:

    The minute they came on – He scowled, she smiled. Set the scene. The world really needs to smile. We are all bemoaning something. She  is such a needed ray of sunshine – I cannot believe she isn’t 10 points ahead.

  69. 69.

    artem1s

    @TS:

    lots of great come backs to Nate’s nonsense.

    “When I couldn’t hear the tall man say all manner of racist and insane things, he seemed like a winner.”

  70. 70.

    Kay

    @Yarrow:

    He’s SO thin skinned. He spends whole days on petty fights with critics – just someone who has always considered himself the smartest person in the room.

    He’s actually perfect for the elite media circles he longs to belong to – they’re all thin skinned and humorless and intolerant of any criticism or questioning. Prima donnas.

  71. 71.

    TBone

    @TS: she strode across the stage like a boss, invaded his personal space immediately, and set him back on his heels all while IN 👠

  73. 73.

    Splitting Image

    Harris just delivered the “There you go again” moment for the campaign. If this turns into a rout, that laugh will be the moment everybody looks back on.

    I’m also liking the fact that a 60 year old woman is running for President and one of the top stories is about how good-looking she is. I did not have that on my bingo card.

  74. 74.

    S Cerevisiae

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I feel exactly the same way, I wanted her to slice and dice him and I was pretty excited watching the debate but I don’t trust my reaction as being neutral so it’s wonderful to see that the consensus view is that she filleted him like a walleye.

  75. 75.

    Ken

    @Yarrow: Yes, I’ve been assuming for some time he has some large bets on the outcome of the election. It’s a single hypothesis that explains so many facts, and we all know what Sherlock Holmes — or was it Richard Feynman? — said about those.

  77. 77.

    NotMax

    Almost seemed like old times.
    Flight back from JFK to Honolulu 60% full, many empty seats (including the one in my two seat row). Three (!) food services: hot meal two hours in (with complimentary glass of wine) , snack 4½ hours in, sandwich box lunch 9 hours in.

  79. 79.

    Betty Cracker

    Via the TPM live coverage, Erick Erickson freaked out on Twitter about the rightwing fever swamp persuading Trump to repeat the dumb lies about Haitian immigrants eating pets:

    YOU STUPID MF’ers JUST GOT TRUMP TO REPEAT YOUR LIE ABOUT THE PETS. CONGRATS ON SETTING THE NEWS STORIES TOMORROW BY LYING SO TRUMP PICKS IT UP AND SAYS STUPID SHIT.

    Trump has no agency, you see, and is compelled to regurgitate idiotic lies, which is exactly the quality you’d want in a president. But my favorite response to Erickson was Christopher Rufo’s:

    The Federalist is citing a police report about Haitians killing geese:

    Sean Davis – BREAKING: @FDRLST has obtained exclusive audio and police reports of Haitian goose-hunting in Ohio. Read the reports and listen to the police call audio here.

    Wait — why do Republicans hate goose hunters?

  80. 80.

    TS

    @Jeffro:

    WaPo headlines are doing their best to pretend there wasn’t an absolute winner. I thought they were improving, I was wrong.

    One of their editorial board members said Kamala was  over prepared.

    So we’ll see what they do in the next 2 weeks. The comments are much more truthful than the headlines.

  83. 83.

    rikyrah

    Stayed up late to watch post-debate analysis.

    The MSM had their stories prepared…. And the Orange Menace, with his awful performance, gave them nothing that they could use for cover..😂😂😂😂😂

  84. 84.

    Jeffro

    Lincoln Project has up an ad of the moment when MVP paused and almost called trump a motherfucker (or similar), caught herself, and then went with ‘…this former president’   It’s EXCELLENT.

    George Conway also has a clip up of when MVP noted that people really should watch trump at his rallies, not just for the insanity but because “…you’ll see people leaving early, because they’re exhausted and bored”.  OUCH!

  85. 85.

    Geminid

    @Jeffro: I listened to the debate and had only second hand descriptions until this morning. Then I saw a pic in an Al Arabiya article of Harris giving this knowing smile as Trump spoke. She looked strong, in control.

  88. 88.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Betty Cracker: Someone synced up Trump repeating “They’re eating the pets” to Vince Guaraldi’s “Linus and Lucy” from the Peanuts cartoons. Can’t find it now.

  89. 89.

    Yarrow

    @Gloria DryGarden:

    he’s not honest with himself long enough to realize, that he gets corrected and fact checked because he lied, and she doesn’t get corrected because she’s not doing any of that

    It’s not about being honest. He’s a malignant narcissist and as such will never “realize” something like this. He sees things only as being good or bad for him.

    .. does he really think everyone is like him, lying all the time?

    He doesn’t think of other people at all. They exist only as people who can do things for him or who are in his way.

    You’ll make yourself crazy wondering why he doesn’t act like most people. This is how narcissists get away with what they do – people keep expecting them to “learn” or “change” and have normal human responses. They don’t. They won’t. The faster people recognize that, the easier it is on them – they stop expecting it – and the sooner they can manage any interaction with the narcissist.

  90. 90.

    Chris

    @TS:

    Yeah, I logged onto the NYT and WaPo websites this morning just to see what the headlines were, and both are studiously avoiding declaring any winner.  The former says Trump is “defensive,” while the latter he “retorted with fiery rhetoric” to Harris’ “crisp” attacks.

  92. 92.

    TS

    @Baud:

    That’s what I meant, I’m nowhere near as good as Kamala in explaining things – he worked for them with 538 for 3 years (I think, could have been less). He tried to be a political columnist with his explanations for the polls – he was never very good at it – maybe that was why he wasn’t kept there.

  96. 96.

    Jeffro

    @TS: I can’t believe she isn’t 10 points ahead.

    True.  Fox (and the rest of the Republican Noise Machine) really does keep the GOP’s “floor” around 45% no matter how poor the candidate quality is.

    Let’s put in the work and get her the other 55%, so we can get that 10 point win!  =)

  97. 97.

    Scout211

    More of Trump whining this morning.  He still claims he won, but he’s rethinking another debate and is rethinking even Fox News unless he can pick the moderators.  So it’s okay if he rigs a debate?  LOL

    Former President Donald Trump on Wednesday said he didn’t know if he wanted to debate Vice President Kamala Harris again as he claimed he “won the debate.”

    “When you win the debate, I don’t, I don’t know that I want to do another debate,” Trump said on Fox News.

    Trump said if Fox News were to moderate a debate, he “wouldn’t want” Martha MacCallum and Bret Baier as moderators because he didn’t think “were good last night,” as he apparently referenced their on-air reactions to his and Harris’ debate.

    Trump had previously agreed to participate in a debate hosted by Fox News with MacCallum and Baier moderating. Harris had not accepted that invitation from Fox.

    “I wouldn’t want to have Martha and Bret. I’d love to have somebody else other than Martha and Bret. I’d love to have, frankly, Sean [Hannity] or Jesse [Watters] or Laura [Ingraham], you know, somebody else. Let’s give other people a shot,” he said.

    Trump baselessly suggested Harris was provided the questions in advance of the ABC presidential debate as he claimed the debate was “rigged.”

    “They had a rigged show with somebody that maybe even had the answers, I mean, I’ll be honest, I watched her talk, and I said, you know, she seems awfully familiar with the questions,” Trump said.

    LOL. She’s “familiar” with the questions, you idiot, because she was prepared for the debate and is prepared to be president.

  98. 98.

    Yarrow

    @Kay: His goal is to maintain his seat at the big stakes gambling table with his billionaire buddies. Everything he says comes back to that.

  100. 100.

    raven

    Former President Donald Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris shook hands after arriving for the 9/11 memorial ceremony on Wednesday morning.
    The handshake comes in the wake of the two presidential candidates meeting face-to-face for the first time last night at ABC News’ historic presidential debate, where they traded barbs over inflation, abortion, immigration and foreign policy.

  101. 101.

    Baud

    @Scout211: I vehemently oppose bigotry, but I can kind of understand it. I will never understand people viewing this WATB as some kind of alpha male.

  102. 102.

    Yarrow

    @rikyrah: He certainly is. Nothing Nate Silver says should be seen as anything else but words from a Thiel mouthpiece who’s desperate to protect his high stakes gambling habit.

  106. 106.

    RandomMonster

    I watched the thing in real time and genuinely enjoyed watching Harris rope a dope and land blow after blow.

  108. 108.

    Chris

    @Betty Cracker:

    The Federalist is citing a police report about Haitians killing geese:

    What, like, Canadian geese?  What the fuck are Ohioans doing keeping these things as pets?  They’re cranky, mean, and bitey!  And I thought the Miamians with their exotic reptiles were bad.

  109. 109.

    MazeDancer

    Hope Trump doesn’t pay some monsters to kill and eat pets and record it for “proof”.

    He never lets anything go. And he will sense it will get much attention.

    ETA: Sorry I posted this. Guess I was trying to ward off the thought.

  110. 110.

    Jeffro

    @Betty Cracker:Trump has no agency, you see, and is compelled to regurgitate idiotic lies, which is exactly the quality you’d want in a president.

    Right?

    Someone please ask Erick to explain why trump doesn’t have smart, capable, non-liars around him.  You know, so that – helpless regurgitator that he is – he’d have better info and at least be able to repeat things that are real/make sense.

    Why is that, Erick?  Shouldn’t a candidate for president attract the best & brightest talent in the country?

  111. 111.

    artem1s

    @Jeffro:

    I wouldn’t assume she isn’t. this is not 2016 or even 2020. and the ‘polls’ Nate are quoting aren’t polls. They are odds from betting sites. They are including this shit Polymarket in aggregate polling on 270toWin.

    Just because some addict puts money on their Alma Mater to win the big game does not influence how the players perform. But 270 gets big ad dollars from them I guess.

  113. 113.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: Trump behaves exactly like a school bully. Pick on people far weaker than yourself, gloat about it, whine and work the refs whenever anything doesn’t go your way. This is “strength” to a large fraction of the population. I’ve been seeing it all my life.

  114. 114.

    Anyway

    @TBone:Now she wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens in prison.

    What, they’re in jail?!  thought the illegal aliens were all wandering free taking out jobs and our benefits (and late breaking, our pets).

  115. 115.

    Jeffro

    @Scout211:“I wouldn’t want to have Martha and Bret. I’d love to have somebody else other than Martha and Bret. I’d love to have, frankly, Sean [Hannity] or Jesse [Watters] or Laura [Ingraham], you know, somebody else. Let’s give other people a shot,” he said.

    “I NEED MY TV FRIENDS TO LOB ME SOFTBALLS ASK ME QUESTIONS AND HOLD MY HAND FOR 90 MINUTES, BECAUSE I AM WINNER TYPE PERSON!!”

    just pathetic

  117. 117.

    TS

    @rikyrah:

    from WaPo

    Shadi Hamid Columnist & Editorial Board member

    the danger, as some of us may have realized in college, is that there’s such a thing as over-prepping for an exam. And that’s even more true for public speaking. You want to be prepared, sure, but you need to also be loose and flexible and if you have all these scripted answers in your head, it becomes harder to do that.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/09/10/live-commentary-trump-harris-debate-opinions/

  119. 119.

    NotMax

    @TBone
    Plane from jFK boarded on time, took off an hour late.

    “Pilot has requested additional refueling.”

    Which I had NO quibble with.
    ;)

  124. 124.

    Jeffro

    here’s Four Seasons Total Landscaping, on Twitter:

     

    We’d like to announce that while we are not a hotel, we are a concept of a hotel.

  125. 125.

    rusty

    @TS: The built in misogyny with that statement, on average women are shorter and thinner than men.  It reminds me when my church was conducting a search for a new pastor.  An old guy complained that it wasn’t that he was opposed to one candidate because she was a woman, he opposed her because her voice was too high.  To be a good pastor you needed a low voice.  Nate Silver needs to take the rest of the election off and spend that time in self reflection.

  127. 127.

    Jeffro

    also

    ABC moderators: JD Vance says you would veto a [abortion] ban.

    Trump: I don’t talk to JD Vance.

    OUUUUUUUUUCH!

  128. 128.

    Another Scott

    I listened to the debate via MSNBC’s YouTube channel live. I missed the first couple of minutes.

    She did very well.  A master class.  And she stumbled very briefly a couple of times – once calling him  the “former vice president”, and getting a little tangled up when she started talking about his history of being a slumlord in NYC – but she quickly recovered.  That shows that she’s human and that she wasn’t coached within 10% of her life.  Being “too slick” is a turnoff to some.

    A good night for her, for Democrats, and for America.

    Forward!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  130. 130.

    TBone

    @Jeffro:  I read yesterday that Lara Loomer was his top advisor for debate prep (there was a photo of her getting off the plane with his “team”).  Explains a lot 😂

  132. 132.

    Kay

    The first woman US President means a lot to me. I have to sort of tamp it down in my real life because I feel as if mentioning it sets her up for the charge of “special treatment as a woman” and I think she’s very talented and competent but it’s always in the background. I’m 64 and I had given up on seeing it in my lifetime. It’s exciting and I feel like it’s LONG overdue in the US. Come on Pennsylvania. Come thru for us.

  133. 133.

    3Sice

    Silver and Luntz clearly have patrons paying for a narrative, or strait up don’t like women.

    The side by sides were awful for concepts of plans.

  134. 134.

    Ken

    @Betty Cracker: My favorite bit is that Erickson’s “STUPID MFERS” includes Vance, who’s been dutifully amplifying away.

    As for your question, I saw a response — might even have been here — that Republicans are fine with goose hunters, provided they’ve spent $6000 on a shotgun, $12000 on a weekend cabin rental, $3000 on a camouflaged blind, $8000 on a purebred retriever, ….

  136. 136.

    Warblewarble

    @Kay: Colonists can do no wrong occasionaly “there are accidents or mistakes are made” Colonists can do no wrong, especially colonists armed and supported by the United States.

  139. 139.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Chris: Hmm… Looks like the Ohio goose-hunting season hasn’t started yet, but… y’know… there IS a goose-hunting season. Are they just wild geese?

  141. 141.

    Anyway

    @TBone:Now she wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens in prison.

    What, they’re in prison?! I thought illegal aliens were wandering free taking our jobs and our benefits (and late breaking … our pets)

  142. 142.

    Matt

    Trump allowed Harris to get to the right of him on China and crime.

    Only the neocon clowns at the Bulwark would regard overtaking a literal fascist from the RIGHT as a positive.

  143. 143.

    Ken

    @TBone: Indeed, some of my most brilliant compositions — or at least, concepts for a composition — have been lost to computer glitches.

    Though I will admit that more have been lost when I re-read what I typed and decided it best not to send it.

  145. 145.

    satby

    @Baud: yep, Twitter is still fun.

    OT, but people who spoke up to adopt one of the senior cats previously, please get in touch with me so we can work on transport. I or Anne Laurie have emailed you. Thanks! (And fu autocorrect)

  149. 149.

    Eunicecycle

    @Matt McIrvin: I think they’re talking about Canada Geese, because the “stories” talk about ducks and geese missing from a park. Canada geese are protected and can’t be hunted. They also migrate, so maybe that’s why they are missing?

  151. 151.

    jonas

    @Ken:Seriously, where do you suppose he got those numbers?  I expect he invented them on the fly, but it’s possible the person who follows him with the emotional support printer and a mixtape of Cats had pre-printed some fake articles knowing he’d need them.

    It’s probably a set of bullshit numbers he’s been reciting since 1982 to get people to invest in his condos or something. Whether it’s healthcare, foreign policy, or the economy, he’s always just in unloading shitty timeshares mode. Always has been.

  154. 154.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: After 2016, I gave up on seeing a woman president during my lifetime too. It means a lot to me as well. I don’t know that we’d have this opportunity again under “normal” circumstances, but if Harris wins (and I think she will), a huge barrier will fall for half the population.

  156. 156.

    TS

    @Baud:

    It was 15 minutes in, they had a group of pundits commenting as the debate went along. It has got 11.15am (my time, which google insists on doing) which was 9.15pm last night Eastern Time

    He said it in response to McArdle (and I hadn’t previously read what she said because I ignore Megan McCardle) – so here it is

    Megan McArdleOpinion Columnist
    It feels to me like Kamala Harris may have overprepared. Trump is loose and fluent — full of it, but loosely and fluently so — while she’s tripping over her own feet a little bit. She needs to relax and be the warm, confident person we saw on the stage at the Democratic convention.

  157. 157.

    Matt McIrvin

    @rusty: There’s an old factoid that the taller candidate “always” or usually wins Presidential elections. There’s a list of height comparisons on Wikipedia and I think you could make a case for it being a factor in the age of television, but it’s far from determinative… and, you know, the most obvious theory of why that is (the people want big strong daddy) would imply that women have a huge disadvantage regardless.

    The effect seems weaker in recent cycles but it’s maybe just because all the major candidates were tall men, except for John McCain (who was pretty average-sized), Hillary Clinton, and Kamala Harris herself.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heights_of_presidents_and_presidential_candidates_of_the_United_States

  159. 159.

    BC in Illinois

    Oh, wow.

    Taylor   AND  Caitlin   ! ! ! !

    Caitlin Clark, whose WNBA team games outdraw NFL games in tv ratings,

    almost immediately liked Taylor Swift’s IG post endorsing Kamala Harris.

  162. 162.

    Another Scott

    @Ken: Q – Did you make any mistakes on January 6?

    Turmp – Not my fault, I had nothing to do with it.  Nobody died.  I’ll free the patriots.  No, I didn’t say I lost – that was sarcasm.  And what about the millions and millions of insane criminals who are invading America and eating everyone’s cats and dogs?!  I saw it on TV so it must be true!!11…

    The man’s brain is broken.  We’ve known this for many years, but it was clear to anyone paying the least bit of attention last night.  He’s the crazy uncle or the crazy neighbor down the street.  He must be kept away from power.

    And the cynical GQP that gave him power to win elections needs to be thrown in the trash heap as well.

    Forward!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  165. 165.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Chris: Yeah, I thought that Taylor Swift encouraging people to go watch videos of the debate for themselves, was in some ways a dig at trad media.

  166. 166.

    Chris

    @Matt McIrvin:

    @Chris: Hmm… Looks like the Ohio goose-hunting season hasn’t started yet, but… y’know… there IS a goose-hunting season. Are they just wild geese?

    Well, no, because the GOP has assured me that it’s people’s pets that are being killed.

    And if you can’t trust the GOP, what’s the world come to?

  168. 168.

    mrmoshpotato

    lmao whichever Trump campaign aides who allowed Laura Loomer to be the last person Trump hangs out with before the debate should be fired, and probably imprisoned

    “and probably imprisoned” LMAO!

  169. 169.

    Chris

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    Good for her.

    The only reason Project 2025 became a household name is because another celebrity said something about it at an award ceremony.  Sad that they’re doing the media’s job for it, but better than no one doing it.

  170. 170.

    Yarrow

    @TS:  In his recent book he says he was gambling $10k a day at the same time he was trying to run 538 at the NYT. It was at this time that they let him go.

  172. 172.

    Jeffro

    btw if anyone wants an extra serving of MAGA tears, here you go (from ‘Dan McLaughlin’ on Twitter)

    Harris has no business winning this election. If Republicans hadn’t nominated the worst possible candidate, they’d be walking away with this.

    LOLWUT?!?

    I distinctly remember telling the RWNJs in my life that at some point, they were going to have to draw a bright line somewhere – “this is what will cause me to stop supporting trump and find another candidate.”  Obviously, two impeachments and an insurrection and 34 felony counts later…THEY DIDN’T LISTEN.

    They didn’t want to put in the work.  They didn’t want to admit why they’re drawn to him.  And now they’re stuck with him.  They’re going to ride this Hindenburg all. the. way. in.

    Too bad, so sad!

  177. 177.

    Matt McIrvin

    (I was going to say Harris, if elected, will be the shortest President of all time, but she might be tied with James Madison.)

  178. 178.

    Yarrow

    @Baud:  My take on why he’s seen as “strong” is that he says he’ll hurt people – immigrants, LGBTQ+ people, women, etc. The cruelty is seen as strength. The whining doesn’t really factor into it.

  179. 179.

    TBone

    @Chris: the rumpy neighbors advised that they don’t need us to care for puppy today while they’re at work/school. Coincidence, I’m sure…

  181. 181.

    Matt McIrvin

    @TS: McCardle claims she’s voting for Harris but was complaining about Harris’s performance all through the Post liveblogging. The other person there who did that was Ramesh Ponnuru; no surprise there.

  185. 185.

    Belafon

    @TS: By Hamid’s own summary, Harris wasn’t overprepared then, because she kept up a really effective plan of getting Trump to react to her.

  186. 186.

    RandomMonster

    @jonas: It’s probably a set of bullshit numbers he’s been reciting since 1982 to get people to invest in his condos or something.

    They’re just random high numbers that fell out of his head. Person Woman Man Camera TV.

  191. 191.

    Captain C

    Greetings from Amsterdam where I have arrived after 4 days in The Hague, Rotterdam, and environs where I was attending a family reunion (descendants of mom’s dad’s dad, 35 or so people across 3 generations and two continents).  It was fantastic! I have lots of interesting relatives and everyone’s chill.

    As the debate was around 3am my time I blissfully slept through it but from here and BlueSky I gather Kamala Harris beat TCFG like a drum in a way that only a seasoned, joyful prosecutor who’s been hanging out with a teacher can do.

  192. 192.

    Doug R

    @different-church-lady:

     

    HE NEVER FUCKIN’ “MASTERED” TV EITHER, YOU DISGUSTING HACKS.

    Yup, word is on that “reality” show that shall not be named is that he’d make a decision on who gets fired and it was the edit team’s job to go back and try to craft a narrative that made sense.

  193. 193.

    SatanicPanic

    I clicked on the “they’re eating pets” clip. It’s crazy he was ranting and angry for so long that I kinda got numb to it. But just watching the clip- he was fucking unhinged. He looks like a lunatic.

  194. 194.

    Yarrow

    @zhena gogolia: Well, yeah. Because “sides” for him are if people support him or they don’t. Pence went against his wishes so now he’s on the other side. Congress went against his wishes – also on the other side. Nothing but him exists. Classic narcissistic behavior.

  195. 195.

    TS

    @Baud: Any time – I didn’t gift link the garbage because much of it was similar. I would have been dead from alcoholic poisoning if I had a sip of wine every time the said something against MVP

  198. 198.

    waspuppet

    There was Trump, coming out into the spin room, the place where a candidate sends his or her deputies to work the press—since God knows that’s the purview of the plebs, not the person in charge…

    The enduring paradox* of Donald Trump is that he insists that the only way to fix his problems is to talk even more, uninterrupted and at length — when in fact it’s the only thing that’s ever caused him serious trouble. He has a coterie of aides, flacks and hangers-on in his camp and the wealthy media class all eager to clean up his messes for him, but he refuses to rely on them.

     

    *(Although that’s far too interesting a word to describe him — it’s actually more like, being the domestic abuser that he is, he can’t perceive of a problem other than “I haven’t been allowed to talk enough.”)

  199. 199.

    Hoodie

    @Jeffro: The irony of reasoning like McLaughlin’s is that the reason the GOP has Trump as their standard bearer in the first place is because all of their other candidates sucked.  Remember the flavors of the month, e.g., Herman “9-9-9 Cain” and the short and happy life of Ted Cruz, GOP presidential frontrunner? Trump capitalized on the howling vacuum in the GOP leadership ranks.

  200. 200.

    Barbara

    @Yarrow: ​Oh dear. I had not heard that, but it would not surprise me to learn that Silver thought his mathematical chops would make him good at gaming. I don’t doubt that some people are better at poker and games than others, but I once read that the proof of the high level of random luck in even more skilled games is that almost no one retains championship status over time.

    @Baud: ​His schtick, If I recall correctly, was that he would bring “data” to school the non-quantitative opinion mongers. His problem — and this was evident to me reading his 538 chats prior to NYT — is that his “insight” was pedestrian, and not very insightful. I have a lot of problems with NYT political coverage, but, for instance, Nate Cohn can read a poll and interpret data better than Silver. Cohn’s problem, indeed the problem with all NYT political coverage, is that someone is putting a thumb on the scale in order to drive a preferred narrative. But Silver was clearly not the corrective for that.​

  203. 203.

    narya

    As soon as he said “concept of a plan” I turned to Downstairs Neighbor and said “That’s the quote of the night.” Two other things: a lot of the time, I had absolutely no clue what he was talking about. There were little blurts (like the pets) that made “sense,” but a lot of the time I just could not tell what point he was circling around. Second, I thought it was brilliant that he made a whole bunch of personal attacks of her and Biden and she . . . ignored him. Just refused to engage on that, in any way whatsoever, and just came back to her plans for the future. It made him sound petty and demented, wasting time on those attacks, while she kept telling us what she’d do.

    I was surprised at how well the moderators did–calling out the infanticide thing in particular.

  205. 205.

    Doug R

    @Warblewarble: Is that what Biden actually said?

    I know the Wiki article mentions that one activist was hit in the leg by a ricochet, did something get confused as to who was hit how?

  206. 206.

    Yarrow

    @Barbara: He talks about his gambling in his very recent book. As I said upthread, he said he was gambling $10k/day while he was running 538 at the NYT. It was at this time they got rid of him.

    I personally wonder if he’s betting on the election. Was he betting on the last election when he was running 538 and at the NYT? Maybe that’s part of the reason he was let go. We won’t know but it doesn’t seem completely out of the bounds of possibility.

  208. 208.

    Hoodie

    @waspuppet: He never listens to anyone.  I bet all that talk about him not really doing debate prep was bullshit; the reality is that he is completely uncoachable and they either did a lot of prep and it didn’t stick or they just gave up.  Irony was that someone was saying that Trump’s hair looked almost normal in the debate.  I bet that’s because he finally let someone else –  a professional – do it for him.  His makeup also wasn’t as ghoulish, although he looked very old.

  209. 209.

    Harrison Wesley

    A concept of a plan?  Well, yeah, it’s like what Emily Dickinson wrote, “A plan is a thing with feathers” or some shit like that.  Whatever.

  211. 211.

    PST

    @rusty:

    The built in misogyny with that statement, on average women are shorter and thinner than men.

    I hold no brief for Silver and see no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt at any time. However, I do think that there are people out there who are ignorant as hell about almost everything who will always be drawn to a large man over a small woman. It is simply one of the factors we need to overcome by force of voter numbers. There exist numbskulls paying scant attention to the debate playing silently on one of the TVs behind the bar who will notice that Trump is much bigger, which maybe they didn’t think much about before. I know that sounds absurd, but it is one manifestation of misogyny.

  212. 212.

    narya

    @Baud: It did not. And I thought she handled the Afghanistan follow-up pretty well, noting that HE negotiated the withdrawal with the Taliban.

  213. 213.

    SatanicPanic

    @Baud: he had a weird red line across his forehead that kept getting more prominent. I wonder if his anger melted his makeup off

  216. 216.

    TS

    @Barbara:

    The House always wins – is what it takes most gamblers a long time to understand. Only time I’ve heard anything against this was that Trump owned Atlantic City Casinos that went bankrupt.

    How did he manage that?

  217. 217.

    schrodingers_cat

    BJ Hive mind, I have a question. I went through the entire AP US history course. The period I find our current era most akin to is the post Civil War period. Failure of reconstruction and the rise of the robber barons. Can anyone suggest a book covering this period

  219. 219.

    trnc

    If Biden answered a question like this, the entire media would be talking about it for the next 48 hours.

    The media are definitely talking about this, as well as the cat eating delusion.

    Also, too.

  224. 224.

    danielx

    @waspuppet:

    Trying to recall the legislative deal that Trump blew up by running his mouth during his term in office. Some Republican congressional staffer snarling that (Trump) “couldn’t keep his fucking mouth shut for eight fucking hours. Fuck him.”

  225. 225.

    Warblewarble

    @Doug R: Suggest you google “Boasts of Israeli snipers” there is a pattern here, there is also a pattern to the US. giving cover to the colonialists crimes.

  227. 227.

    TS

    @Baud: late at night in my part of town – I should have thought about that – but gotta admit – close to the worst one I have ever had the misfortune to see.

    If the disciples see that and still vote for him – there is no hope for any of them.

  228. 228.

    Doug R

    @TS: Most mobsters accept a small percentage loss to launder their money, I’m guessing Trump gave such good rates he lost money?

  231. 231.

    mdblanche

    • @Hoodie: Well, his debate prep team supposedly consisted of the likes of Lara Loomer and Matt Gaetz. So last night is probably what getting prepped by their ilk looks like. Maybe Gaetz gave Trump some hair care tips.
  232. 232.

    Baud

    More fun

    The share price of Trump Media
    plunged more than 17% on Wednesday morning, a day after majority shareholder Donald Trump gave a widely panned presidential debate performance against Vice President Kamala Harris. 

  233. 233.

    sdhays

    I find it gratifying how so many pundits are shocked at Harris beating Trump on the Afghanistan question. Even Josh Marshall, who is much, much better than most, was genuinely surprised.

    The reality is that Trump bears most of the responsibility for how things went down in Afghanistan. He’s the one who shut out the Afghan government and “negotiated” with the Taliban to give the Taliban everything they wanted so that he could run on no deaths in Afghanistan in 2020. He pulled out faster than the military advised – he even tried to pull all troops out before November, 2020! He set up the circumstances in 2021 where Biden’s decision was either go ahead and pull out all the way or re-invade.

    The media has never provided that context and Trump has been coddled on this question especially, which was why he (and the pundits) were so shocked that she took him to the cleaners over it.

    I didn’t think too much about the debate before it happened, but she did exactly what I wanted her (or someone!) to do on this topic. I’ll bet not a few people were surprised to learn those facts that MVP shared.

  234. 234.

    The Audacity of Krope

    So, I was pretty against the notion of watching the debate yesterday; but when I saw it come up on CSPAN, I decided they deserve their advertisers’ dollars.

    I must say I was pleasantly surprised. The questions were actually somewhat thoughtful and framed in a way to consider prior on-the-record responses. The moderators directly challenged both debaters. Hell, this might have had a chance at being informative if one of the participants wasn’t Trump

  236. 236.

    lowtechcyclist

    Still catching up on all the commentary, but it sounds like this was the Billie Jean King v. Bobby Riggs of Presidential debates.

  239. 239.

    3Sice

    Concepts of a plan:

    There is no path to 270, much less 50%+1 for this shit show. His “braintrust” is constantly pulling on a string trying to shore some votes up, only to cause something to unravel somewhere else. It is all so hamfisted, with a candidate that can’t stop admiring and reacting to his reflection on FOX.

  242. 242.

    matt

    @Scout211: After hearing for the last 3 weeks that Tulsi was going to magic bullet this debate for Harris, this is a pretty big reversal and retrenchment. Our guy got stomped because it was rigged.

  244. 244.

    SatanicPanic

    So should Harris want another debate or should she take the W and ignore him if he tries to ask for a redo?

  247. 247.

    TS

    Latest headline from the post

    Harris dominated Trump in debate, but will it matter?

    What did they say when Biden debated

    Biden’s path to victory narrows in wake of damaging debate performance

  250. 250.

    Trivia Man

    @Ken: As i recall, he said “they pleaded guilty” and therefore no matter what happens after it is ok to execute them. They did plead guilty. And later they recanted those pleas AND then PROVED the so-called confessions were  coerced. And THAT is why they were freed.

    Its always nice when he gets specific with his lies – it can be clearly rebutted. Name names or GTFO. Who says xyz? Which law do you disagree with. He lives on insinuation and innuendo.

  252. 252.

    Belafon

    @SatanicPanic: They asked for a debate immediately at the end of last night’s debate. I place it in the category of them challenging Trump to leave the mic on, but there’s one person dumb enough to fall for it.

  253. 253.

    Geminid

    @SatanicPanic: The CBS radio newscast reported that Harris said afterwards that she wants another debate, and that Trump told Fox News he wasn’t sure. He claimed he won this one.

  254. 254.

    Trivia Man

    @Chris: Normally yes, a concept of a plan is sufficient. But he has been hammering this for 9 years as a centerpiece of his competence. And the most detailed explanation i can recall is that  “it’s better.”

    Completely in line to mock and scorn.

  257. 257.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Trivia Man: And the most detailed explanation i can recall [of Trump’s healthcare plan] is that “it’s better.”

    And cheaper!!!

    He says he doesn’t have a plan because he isn’t President yet. He has been President.

  260. 260.

    JAFD

    @NotMax:  Could you drop me an email when you get the chance?  Thought I had your eddress on my system, found out I don’t.  Thanks very much.

  261. 261.

    kindness

    I wasn’t worried about how Kamela would handle herself last night.  I was worried how ABC would manage the debate.  I went to bed breathing a big sigh of relief last night.  The morning web agrees with me.

    It doesn’t end here.  Go out and help get out the vote.  The Electoral College is tilted Republican.  Reason # infinity it needs to be dumped to help save the Democratic Republic.

  262. 262.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @zhena gogolia: I don’t know who this SwannMarcus89 guy is but I was following him for awhile until I noticed some weird tweets in his timeline earlier this Summer.  On June 4th he tweeted (since deleted) about Ibram X. Kendi:

    Ibram Kendi “galvanized Americans with his ideas” is a weird way of saying “elite liberals and progressives thought an obvious moron was a genius for six months because they all went temporarily insane.”

    Nobody who is both intelligent and isn’t currently in the grips of mass hysteria could have ever listened to Ibram Kendi talk without immediately concluding he had nothing of value to say and was utterly full of shit.

    Kendi is the author of Stamped From The Beginning which is possibly the best book about the history and workings of systemic racism in our world. It argues that most of the stuff we think of when we think about racism (interpersonal examples like people using the N-word, lynchings, cross-burnings etc.) is just the tip of the iceberg with the really big damage done by systemic racism that is often much harder to see. He argues that people need to understand how systemic racism harms PoC and vote accordingly. And the earlier we can recognize these systems of oppression (learning to understand this stuff even as kids, just as kids-of-color are forced to do) the better we can be as people. Hardly a “moronic” idea. Along with Nikole Hannah Jones, Kendi is probably the other Black author who has done the most for popularizing the emphasis on systemic racism that has become a crucial part of Dem policy and is one of the biggest positives of Kamala Harris’ positions on criminal justice reform, Black maternal healthcare, focus on environmental concerns of urban communities etc. I guarantee Kamala Harris doesn’t look at Kendi and think he’s a moron or grifter with nothing to say. I’d wager she probably knows him and greatly admires his work. It’s everywhere in her policy stances and worldview.  But naturally Kendi (and Hannah Jones) have become the evil villains in the minds of right-wing screechers who love White Supremacy and are panicked about “Wokeness.”  Seeing Swann tweet what could have just as easily been a diatribe from Alex Jones, Ben Shapiro, Stephen Miller or Trump, really raised my hackles.

    In May this Swann guy tweeted:

    Nobody would remember Rittenhouse if people didn’t lie about his case, try to get him convicted for obvious self-defense, and then continue lying about him for years after that You made this kid famous. It is your fault he’s a right-wing celebrity.

    And…

    Rittenhouse actually did an incredible job controlling his emotions for a 17 year old. Only shooting the specific people in a crowd who are assaulting you or pointing a gun at your head takes some serious trigger discipline He didn’t even kill Grosskreutz after he backed off!

    Which, again, just sets off my racism spidey-senses. Trying to get attention by defending Kyle (fucking) Rittenhouse, is a strange move for anyone who positions themselves somewhere on the Left. Nobody’s perfect. People are complicated. And I actually appreciate (and agree with) some of Swann’s critiques of our side’s tactics. But these couple examples, and a few others I’ve seen here and there, give me extreme pause.  He seems way too similar to Chris Rufo, for my tastes.

  263. 263.

    Jeffro

    @Matt McIrvin: from John Harwood, former WSJ and CNN reporter:

     

    “they whine about moderators rebutting lies

    they whine about FBI “fraud” when the data shows crime rates have fallen

    they insist the city manager just hasn’t seen the dog-eating

    the Republican problem isn’t with any of those people

    the Republican problem is with reality”

    so true, so true

    #FoxBubble

  264. 264.

    lollipopguild

    @Yarrow: Trump has said that “everyone” lies, cheats, steals. Since “everyone” does it, it means that he is no worse than anyone else is. Not that he needs an excuse.

  266. 266.

    SW

    Undecided voters are not going to determine the outcome of this election.  After a decade of Trump undecided voters are a tiny cohort of morons.  This election will be determined by enthusiasm and turnout.  That is why this debate was a much bigger deal than most realize.

  267. 267.

    Jeffro

    @Hoodie:The irony of reasoning like McLaughlin’s is that the reason the GOP has Trump as their standard bearer in the first place is because all of their other candidates sucked.  Remember the flavors of the month, e.g., Herman “9-9-9 Cain” and the short and happy life of Ted Cruz, GOP presidential frontrunner? Trump capitalized on the howling vacuum in the GOP leadership ranks.

    So true.  And the few who showed even a moment of spine (Haley, Sununu, etc) just wilted like daisies.

    AFTER J6, too!

    The intimidation and threats and blackmail going on behind the scenes in the GOP must be absolutely bonkers.  I know many of them are just bad people who’d follow trumpov anyway, but whew.

  268. 268.

    Yarrow

    @TS:  His Atlantic City casinos were a money-laundering operation for the Russian mob. Link. When TFG was no longer useful for them in that capacity they left him holding the bag.

  271. 271.

    TS

    @Baud: The headlines for Biden reinforced the thought that Biden failed, trump won, which helped the democratic party panic spread

    The headline this time – is to tell the trumpers, you are doing OK, it doesn’t matter.

  274. 274.

    zhena gogolia

    @TS: But those Biden headlines were fueled by “insider” Democrats calling them up and texting them with their panic.

  275. 275.

    Yarrow

    @lollipopguild:  He does it, therefore everyone does it. He is the only thing. To him, I mean. He doesn’t see anyone else as anything other than a useful tool or an obstacle in his way. He certainly doesn’t seem them as actual people with their own agency.

  279. 279.

    Spc123

    @Kay: She probably wouldn’t be able to quite get that, even with a D congress – but a rollback to 20 and 25% percent rates overall would be good. There is already a 3.8% excise on capital transactions over 100k in one year; not sure how that plays into these rates. They should also eliminate passive capital gains taxes for incentive options and treat them all as earned income (the way many other countries do – all NSOs). Any increase on buybacks would be good as well. All of this requires control of the Senate, of course.

  280. 280.

    Yarrow

    @TS:  He visited the Soviet Union in 1987. They’ve owned him since then. You can read all about how they cultivated him here.

    The Hidden History of Trump’s First Trip to Moscow

    In 1987, a young real estate developer traveled to the Soviet Union. The KGB almost certainly made the trip happen.

    He’s been owned by and/or a useful idiot for Russia ever since.

  281. 281.

    TS

    @zhena gogolia: Could well be, I didn’t take part in the conversation re Biden after his debate. Gave up reading anything political until Biden announced his decision.

    My point still stands that the Post has a foot heavily on the scale for trump, they have not had a headline saying trump lost, other than from the very few anti trump opinions.

    I am still amazed that Jennifer Rubin changed so much – her column used to be called “turn right”. Today she has

    Harris excels. ABC does its job. Both were deadly for Trump.

  283. 283.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Captain C: I was in Amsterdam this summer – my first visit there. If you have time and (a lot of other people’s) money, I highly recommend the Rijks restaurant, which has a Michelin star. The 6-course lunch with wine pairings took over 4 hrs and was one of the best meals of my life. It is next to, but not officially part of, the Rijks Museum.

  284. 284.

    frosty

    @narya: ​
     Bingo! I’ve read that it was a classic Mafia bustout. The casino and its shareholders went bust and he walked away richer.

  285. 285.

    SatanicPanic

    One thing I think maybe Democrats could make clear about why limits on when you can get an abortion or bad is because problems that could endanger the health of the mother can come at any time in the pregnancy.

  287. 287.

    Jeffro

    btw I heard from Froette this morning…here’s what she heard from my RWNJ dad (her grandad):

    “Harris won on style and demeanor, and trump won on facts.  Don’t think either moved the needle beyond their base.”

    In response to her surprise re: trump/facts, and her saying that she thought the moderators did a good job, he said

    “They failed to fact check Harris or follow up with her like they did with DJT”

    LOL

    so I passed along that great, simple reminder I saw on Twitter: “asymmetric lying results in asymmetric fact-checking.”  =)

    too bad, so sad, GOP!

    They’re going to pretend that “debates don’t matter” – THIS ONE SURE DID

    They’re going to pretend that the moderators “didn’t fact-check Harris” – THEY DIDN’T NEED TO

    They’re going to pretend that all is well and polls are still tight – LET ‘EM and LET’S GO!

  288. 288.

    JAFD

    A lot of our suburbs and exurbs – golf courses, office parks, etc, with catchment basins and settlement ponds for the water coming off roofs and parking lots – is ideal habitat for geese, who rapidly become a pest.  If there were way to hunt them without endangering neighborhood – crossbows ?  slingshots ? – ‘twould be meat source.

    Note that back in ’74-’75, it was the Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees, claimed to be hunting and eating dogs and cats.  IIRC, that eventually died down, no internet in those days…

    Is there anywhere on the ‘net where one can read or download a complete transcript of the debate ?  Thanks, very much!

  289. 289.

    Glory b

    @Chris: BUT it is. Not many people seem to remember,  but in 2015, while he was running against Hillary, he was asked about the ACA.

    He said he’d already written his own plan, it was better than Obamacare, it would cover lots more people, would give us much more comprehensive coverage and would be cheaper & easier to administer, but he wouldn’t reveal it unless he won.

    So, according to the 2019 version of Trump, a new plan was already created.

    I remain upset that no one in the media ever seems to have mentioned it again.

  290. 290.

    Sure Lurkalot

    Posting a link to David Frum was not on my bingo card but this is right on the money. They live in Trump’s vision of American Carnage while at the same time creating that reality with their love of guns and disparagement of everyone who doesn’t think or look like them.

    David Frum
    @davidfrum
    2h
    If Trump loses, goal-oriented conservatives will have to return to Politics Kindergarten to relearn basics like “don’t insult 52% of the electorate” … “Hitler was bad actually” … and “don’t brag in your own memoir about cruelly killing a puppy.”

    That return to Politics Kindergarten will be slow and painful. Even goal-oriented conservatives have had their perceptions of reality distorted by the Trump mania. They can’t see America as it is. They don’t merely tell lies. They live by lies.

  292. 292.

    Ken

    @Glory b: He said he’d already written his own plan, it was better than Obamacare, it would cover lots more people, would give us much more comprehensive coverage and would be cheaper & easier to administer, but he wouldn’t reveal it unless he won.

    Sounds a lot like his plans to end the war in Ukraine and the Israel-Palestine conflict, and to rebuild US infrastructure and manufacturing. Well, at least when it comes to the release date.

  293. 293.

    suzanne

    i am sitting at the airport in Ft. Myers, waiting to go home. This entire region is designed to appeal to old people and it feels like I have stepped back to the 80s. I want to get out of here. The music they are playing is eaaaaaaasy listening.

    I went to the Gulf yesterday and put my feet in it. The water was hot. Need to get back to leaves!

    Very happy that MVP led the charge last night.

    ETA: “Biggest Part of Me” by Ambrosia is playing. FUUUUUUUCK.

  294. 294.

    Yarrow

    @Sure Lurkalot:  David Frum has had some good observations in the last several years about his former political associates. Also he’s been funny from time to time. I always keep a skeptical eye, though.

  296. 296.

    VOR

    @Yarrow: He’s a narcissist. Both statements are true for him. Whatever he says at any time is true for him in that moment. Even if the very next second he says the complete opposite. Which is also true for him when he says it.

    He’s also a bullshitter, as Frankfurt defines it. A liar knows the truth and seeks to conceal it. A bullshitter doesn’t necessarily know or care what’s true, they just say whatever they think will be persuasive at that moment, for that audience. A bullshitter can say X in one moment, then turn around and say Y to a different audience. We can argue if his malignant narcissism is a contributing factor to being a bullshitter, but IMHO he is clearly a bullshitter rather than just a liar.

  299. 299.

    trnc

    I hope someone gets around to saying “The reason fascists like Orban say you’re the toughest guy he’s ever seen is that they know flattery will get them anything they want from you.”

  301. 301.

    SatanicPanic

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: i didn’t think it was particularly problematic when I saw it. They have since changed it on the front page “Harris Dominated Trump in the Debste but Tight Race is Still Ahead”.

    Will it matter is a question I think everyone is asking

  302. 302.

    Mousebumples

    @Kay: Come on Pennsylvania. Come thru for us.

    Agreed – but I love that Harris/Walz have multiple paths. Pennsylvania is simplest, but there are multiple possibilities for victory.

  304. 304.

    Soprano2

    @Yarrow: This, and he says everything forcefully which gives the impression of strength. The truth is that he’s weak and easily manipulated by flattery, but the way he talks gives some people the impression of strength, and to them that’s all that matters.

  305. 305.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Soprano2: … but the way he talks gives some people the impression of strength, and to them that’s all that matters.

    In my opinion those people have the wrong idea of what strength is. Alas, there seem to be millions of them.

  307. 307.

    VOR

    @Soprano2: As Bill Clinton said, “When people are insecure, they’d rather have somebody who is strong and wrong than someone who’s weak and right.” Trump will say crazy, objectively wrong, things but say them forcefully

    Back in 2018 Trump cited Kim Jong-Un as a character witness, so at least Victor Orban is a slight improvement.

  308. 308.

    HumboldtBlue

    All I remember from the debate was… THE MAYOR OF MOSCOW’S WIFE HAS ENTERED THE CHAT!!!!!

    I’m still howling 12 hours later.

  310. 310.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    A random thought about the Haitian slur. Some on the right have tried to play it off as “a joke, like the couch thing.” That they can’t see the difference between blood libel designed to get people hated if not killed, and poking fun at a weirdo national figure, is one more symptom of whatever it is that prevents Republicans from understanding humor.

    And it’s honestly puzzling no matter how many times I see it. Humor seems so basic to being human.

  311. 311.

    narya

    @frosty: Also, IIRC, a few of the casino execs died in a copter crash–TCFG was supposed to be on it but changed his mind or something. I’ve seen speculation that they were going to testify in some way about what was going on. I want to say it was either Lincoln’s Bible’s podcast (The World Beneath) or Mueller, She Wrote.

  313. 313.

    zhena gogolia

    @HumboldtBlue: Even I don’t effing know who the mayor of Moscow’s wife is. I assume he’s talking about Luzhkov, by the way, not the current mayor.

    ETA: looked it up, indeed, he’s talking about Luzhkov’s wife. Luzhkov died in 2019. And she didn’t give Hunter Biden anything.

  315. 315.

    Jinchi

    The one thing I learned from the outtakes of that debate is that Trump really believes the nonsense about Haitians eating their neighbors pets.

    JD Vance and Ted Cruz seem like racist trolls who are at least in on the joke, but TFG is the gullible fool who falls for it.

    I’m starting to wonder if he really believes that children are getting sex change surgery from the school nurse.

  317. 317.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: That they can’t see the difference between blood libel designed to get people hated if not killed, and poking fun at a weirdo national figure

    Of course they can. The former are nobodies, the latter is an accomplished gentleman of high esteem. Really we’re in the wrong here…

  318. 318.

    Dave

    @Baud: To be fair basing his campaign on “doesn’t talk to JD Vance” would probably be the most relatable thing he could campaign on.

  321. 321.

    Dave

    @3Sice: Silver ultimately works for Thiel who I’m fairly sure would keep all women sedated in special breeding farms (and of course euthanize any that are infertile or have aged out of fertility) if we had the technology and he thought he could get away with it soooo that checks out.

  322. 322.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Can anyone suggest a book covering this period

    Others here have already made good suggestions.

    If I may be so bold as to make them, here are some book suggestions veering a little bit off the topic of Reconstruction era USA, but which I think you may find useful in thinking about past historical parallels with our current situation.

    Dreadnought: Britain, Germany, and the Coming of the Great by Robert K. Massie

    This is about how great powers, one of them the at the time global hegemon and the other an ambitious, restless, rising power, mis-managed their relationship with tragic results. The parallels with the USA and China today are obvious. Hopefully we will do a better job of it.

    It is very detailed, getting into the personality, outlooks, and flaws of the people involved, and very much the politics of it. A good antidote to purely structuralist accounts of this era.

    Rites Of Spring: The Great War and the Birth of the Modern Age by Modris Eksteins

    covers the some of the same era but from a very different perspective, focusing on cultural but not political elites and popular moods & attitudes. Very, very, relevant to our current social media dominated era and how politics is influenced not just from top down leadership but also from other directions too. Reveals a mood of reckless & irresponsible narcissism and nihilism in European elite culture in the decades leading up to and thru the First World War which is astonishingly similar to some of our cultural currents today.

    Best wishes

  323. 323.

    Anoniminous

    @Barbara:

    Casinos can calculate almost minute-by-minute how much money they are making.  Gambling is a positive sum game for the house and a negative sum game for the gambler.  The fact little Natie-poo doesn’t know that is indicative of his ignorance of statistical analysis.

  325. 325.

    Trivia Man

    @Sanjeevs: My biggest beef is the bad baseline. Example:

    2019 – 100

    2020 – 85 (pandemic! Especially noted in gas prices)

    2021 – 105

    That shows as +24% inflation YOY. It is more accurately called “average of 2.5% per year”. This SCARY INFLATION OMG is driven by 2 factors… the cratered economy + record corporate profits.

  326. 326.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Barbara: it would not surprise me to learn that Silver thought his mathematical chops would make him good at gaming.

    My Mom had a system she claimed worked for her. My parents were once a year gamblers, on an annual trip to Vegas. Mom figured the house was crooked and she would bet against high rollers at the roulette wheel. So if somebody put $5000 or whatever on red, she’d bet black.

  328. 328.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Ksmiami: A world in which a woman even conceivably could be President and it’s not a joke is uncharted territory. For most of the history of US Presidential politics, this was not really a thing.

    I remember when Mondale ran with Geraldine Ferraro–the whole question of whether you’d really want a woman a heartbeat away from the Presidency was something that got openly debated. All that “what if she’s on her period” bullshit.

    I think Hillary Clinton changed a lot just by being a serious major-party candidate (and winning the popular vote, such that she clearly provides an existence proof that this isn’t an impossible thing to think about).

    And the further existence proof is that Kamala Harris is the Vice-President. She already won an election in which one of the premises was that she was qualified to take on the job of President if needed, and it was a possibility that people were definitely actively thinking about.

  329. 329.

    Dave

    @Jeffro: And once he’s gone they will never ever examine and admit why this was the case; at least not in way that would indicate that THEY need to change their behavior and maybe do some real self-examination.

  334. 334.

    JML

    @Anoniminous: It doesn’t matter how smart Silver is or isn’t, or whether his math and stats skills could give him an advantage or not: if he’s gambling $10K daily, then he’s an addict and addicts will always lose in the end because they simply can’t stop. It’s possible for the individual to win against the House and even consistently come out ahead…for a while. Sustaining it when you start going with big numbers all the time? doesn’t happen. Ever.

    If Silver has the significant gambling problem that it appears that he does, then he’s cooked until he gets help and stops.

  335. 335.

    E.

    @Jinchi: You can see his Truth Social site without an account. He is currently posting weird videos from unheard of sources about people’s cats getting eaten and blurry photos of police logs referencing Haitian women with geese. It’s beautiful to see.

  337. 337.

    Another Scott

    @Hoodie: It seems like most people forget that Turmp announced a day after JEB!  And he hated JEB! because JEB! vetoed a casino he wanted in Florida. He wanted to crush JEB! more than anything, but then saw that he could actually win the nomination…

    Every response by TCFFG is related to petty grievances.

    And everyone in that party was afraid of him – afraid of being sued, afraid of his minions coming after them, afraid of whisper campaigns from the National Enquirer, afraid of breaking St. Ronald’s 11th commandment. JEB! wilted, and the PTB in the party were unwilling to see the danger of letting a petty tyrant get ahold of power. Even those who spoke out against him and the dangers (like Lindsey Graham) quickly fell in line.

    And here we are.

    Let’s run up the score! Forward!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  339. 339.

    Matt McIrvin

    @JML: Supposedly casinos in Vegas stopped hosting mathematics conventions because mathematicians weren’t gambling. There are some games like poker where you could theoretically win by taking from someone other than the house, but there aren’t many.

    You’d think that, if anything, someone whose expertise is all about odds and statistics would be working for the house.

  340. 340.

    Captain C

    @Chief Oshkosh: Thanks for the tip. Probably not this time, but I will put it in my pocket if I ever have lots of (probably other people’s) money. Going to Kantjil & de Tijger with my sister tonight.

  343. 343.

    Kent

    @Another Scott: And everyone in that party was afraid of him – afraid of being sued, afraid of his minions coming after them, afraid of whisper campaigns from the National Enquirer, afraid of breaking St. Ronald’s 11th commandment. JEB! wilted, and the PTB in the party were unwilling to see the danger of letting a petty tyrant get ahold of power. Even those who spoke out against him and the dangers (like Lindsey Graham) quickly fell in line

    They had another chance after the 2020 elections.  All it would have taken is a cascade of GOP leaders to congratulate Biden for his win in November after the election was called.  And it would have completely deflated all of Trump’s stop the steal lies and most likely would have prevented 1/6 and Trump’s takeover of the GOP which he accomplished in the wake of the election by all his “stop the steal” fundraising.  I think Romney was the only one with the guts to actually congratulate Biden.

    But no, they did nothing when he doubled down, and mostly just joined in on the election denial even though all but the most stupid ones actually knew better.  Which let Trump keep command of the GOP for another 4 years and here we are

    The only reason why Trump is still in command of the GOP is because they just let him.  Only a tiny minority like Liz Cheney and Romney even objected.

  344. 344.

    Kent

    @Matt McIrvin:

    @JML: Supposedly casinos in Vegas stopped hosting mathematics conventions because mathematicians weren’t gambling. There are some games like poker where you could theoretically win by taking from someone other than the house, but there aren’t many.

    You’d think that, if anything, someone whose expertise is all about odds and statistics would be working for the house.

    It is the same in any other field.  For example in finance, the big money is mostly gained by the hedge fund types who just take a cut of other people’s money rather than gamble their own.  The Warren Buffet types who consistently beat the market are very rare.

  345. 345.

    mrmoshpotato

    @SatanicPanic: I clicked on the “they’re eating pets” clip. It’s crazy he was ranting and angry for so long that I kinda got numb to it. But just watching the clip- he was fucking unhinged. He looks like is a lunatic.

    Fixed.

  347. 347.

    stinger

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: She owned him from the opening moments. When she promptly strode to center stage, then pursued him into his own corner to introduce herself, he got so flustered that he didn’t even do that handshake yank-dominance thing by jerking the other person toward him and then covering their hand with his second hand. Seven years ago, Justin Trudeau (or possibly Macron) was prepared and held steady, but most people are taken off guard. Harris didn’t even allow him to think about it!

    ETA: He wasted his closing remarks by just complaining about her the entire time. And in the middle, the saddest moment of the whole thing was “I saw it on TV!” Like that PROVES it. Like he wasn’t the star of a “reality” show which was the opposite of real, so if for no other reason he should know better. Just sad.

  352. 352.

    catclub

    @Leto: and he said just ‘Springfield’ when there is one in every state. He is wrapped into the online right wing echochamber.

  353. 353.

    Barbara

    @Betty Cracker: Only weirdos like my sister in law keep geese as pets. I served goose for Christmas dinner one year.  Wasn’t Dick Cheney duck hunting when he nearly killed his friend?

    I’m just trying to wrap my brain around what the heck is so odd or crazy about hunting geese.  It’s probably out of season but that is a different issue.

  354. 354.

    Ruckus

    @Yarrow:

    He’s a narcissist.

    That is the least of his issues.

    But he has so many negative issues that a book could be written about them. A thick book. He is pompous, arrogant, narcissistic, senile, male human who has never held any concept of even close to normal human as his basis. IOW this is who he is and has been his entire life. He was just more capable of hiding it before he started down the senile road as a pompous, arrogant, narcissistic male human. For someone like him (thankfully there are few humans with this level of arrogant, pompous, narcissistic, senility) what we are seeing would normally have happened long ago and with much less fanfare because that wouldn’t have ever gotten to this place in public. This is, well, semi normal behavior for someone with this bundle of issues and this much spotlight. Given his entire picture, any human with his grab bag of issues would be acting the same. He’s just in a national spotlight and not wearing the jacket with wrap around sleeves.

  356. 356.

    geg6

    @schrodingers_cat: ​
     
    Chernow’s Grant bio is a pretty good overview of the post-war period from his perspective (also the pre-war and actual war). Give me a while to think and I’ll try to come up with others off the top of my head.

  358. 358.

    JustRuss

    I only watched a few clips, but damn, Kamala went full mean-girl on Trump, and damn is she good at it.  And no one deserves it more.

  361. 361.

    Ruckus

    @Chris:

    He has a concept of a plan because he is no longer capable of even forming a basis of a plan. What he knows is that he needs a plan. Everything stops at that point.

    The big problem here is that he is melting down IN PUBLIC. Humans do on occasion melt down as they age out. He is a bit more about doing everything as a pompous, arrogant, entitled, 6 yr old brat in public than most people that have this level and full box of issues. Most people with this level of issues would not have gotten to be president, on this big of stage, at this level of those issues. And when he was MORE capable of hiding them – he did. Now that he’s arrived at the stage where self control is impossible, he’s showing everything and in the national spotlight.

  362. 362.

    Soprano2

    @catclub: Not exactly – there are 14 Springfields in the U.S., which I found out where there was a contest to determine which one was the Simpson’s Springfield. My city didn’t win that, although they would fit right in here.

  364. 364.

    Msb

    @Scout211:

    Trump had previously agreed to participate in a debate hosted by Fox News with MacCallum and Baier moderating. Harris had not accepted that invitation from Fox.

    no, trump made up that proposal from whole cloth; neither Fox nor Harris knew anything about it.

  365. 365.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Ruckus: I can just never tell what will get public traction.

    There were many moments during the 2016 campaign that were characterized at the time as Trump melting down or decompensating, just saying crazy stuff on camera. Time ran multiple covers showing him melting into orange goop. People were taking bets on when he’d drop out or get kicked out.

    And he won the election. It just didn’t matter. A lot of voters kind of liked those meltdowns.

    Is it different now? Maybe. I can’t tell because it’s hard for me to gauge the minds of other people.

  366. 366.

    Ruckus

    @Another Scott:

    When there is an argument to be made, politicians will make one. It might or might not be a good argument but it will get made. Along comes petty grievances, in all his, what’s that word, doesn’t come to mind, oh yes it’s termed bull and shit. This human being has always been this guy. Winning that first election told him that he is superior to everyone else, FINALLY. And he’s run with that selfish concept of his lack of humanity ever since. And he won’t change because he got to be the leader of whatever. He’s 9 yrs old, mentally. He’s still playing games – he just doesn’t know it. And it boils down to – He Was Important! Which means he’s STILL, and always will be IMPORTANT. And as any 9 yr old playing that game in earnest every last thing rotates around him. He doesn’t know how to let go, he became president, even though he could not do the job, he discussed being president with all the wrong people and for all the wrong reasons because HE IS THE MAN. What do you mean he’s no longer THE MAN? He is 78 yrs old, with the maturity of an 8 yr old who isn’t trying all that hard. Especially not that man who is no longer THE MAN.

    What I’m saying is that this human is way, way out over his skis and just dived off the top of Mt Everest. It won’t go well for him, and he’ll never understand how or why.

  367. 367.

    Ruckus

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Never forget the old adage – IT TAKES ALL KINDS. I’ve never been sure it does but that old adage has stood the test of time. To me what it should say is life HAS all kinds. I don’t think the two are the same…

    My point is that I used to be a mental health counselor and the different levels and personality traits of humans fills a huge, huge, huge box. And some find/dig for all the shitty ones. Some look for all the best ones, but mistake some of the bad for good ones, because it is humanity, in all it’s highs, all it’s lows, and in all it’s searches for perfection. Look around and tell me that anyone has ever found them all. Look at shitforbrains and tell me he found one. Or even looked.

  368. 368.

    geg6

    @suzanne: ​
     
    Oh god, Ft. Myers…tied for the second worst place I’ve ever been in FL. Number 1 is Orlando, for the obvious reasons. No beach and nothing but Disney and Disney-fied stuff. I hate everything about it. Ft. Myers and Panama City come in second worst just based on the populations in each. Just my worst nightmare. I can tolerate Tampa for a short visit. Same with the area my sister used to live: Stuart/Jensen Beach/Palm City/Hobe Sound/Jupiter/Palm Beach Gardens. I do really, really like the Keys, but, sadly, I will not be visiting there ever again in my lifetime because I refuse to ever step foot in that godforsaken state unless they regain some sort of sanity. Which I don’t ever anticipate.

  369. 369.

    Ken

    @Scout211: It’s progress, or at least as much as you can expect. Last night Trump was sure he’d done great and won the debate. Today he’s realized that the debate situation developed not entirely to his advantage*.  That gets us to the “as much as you can expect” part, because of course it couldn’t have been his fault, so Harris cheated.

    * As Hirohito put it in the WWII surrender broadcast, forever setting the standard for “tell me you’ve lost without saying that you lost”.

  370. 370.

    CaseyL

    @schrodingers_cat:

    This might be a later period than you’re looking for, but I **highly** recommend Barbara Tuchman’s The Proud Tower: A Portrait of the World Before the War, 1890-1914  which is about pre-Great War Europe, Russia, and the US.

    Wonderful writing on the social upheavals in Europe and Russia, and the nascent imperialist movement in the US (regarding the Philippines).

    It leads more or less directly to Tuchman’s equally outstanding The Guns of August (actually written a few years earlier than Proud Tower) which is about the first four months of the Great War.

  373. 373.

    Bill Arnold

    @TS:

    Only time I’ve heard anything against this was that Trump owned Atlantic City Casinos that went bankrupt.
    How did he manage that?

    Dunno. Those Atlantic City casinos were expensive construction projects, though. It was a (metaphorical) gold rush. My father was the project manager on a Bally casino there in the same time frame. The floor space (including parking) tripled from the initial plans/ground breaking, and they were (from memory) working three construction shifts (overtime involved) because (from memory) they were losing 30M per month (revenue? profit?) when it wasn’t yet in operation.

  374. 374.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Jeffro:

    Maybe our blessed snooze media should take note: this is what he’d do to you all if he wins.  Tow the trump party line at all times, or else.

    They know this–it’s why they’re obeying in advance. A hedged bet, like Pascal’s wager. If Trump loses, they don’t pay much penalty for this behavior and they can even play it heroically as opposing the party in power. If Trump wins, they’ve avoided the stick by sucking up.

  375. 375.

    Ruckus

    @CaseyL:

    There is no Great War.

    All wars are SHIT, PURE UNADULTERATED SHIT.

    I know that wars that people win are often considered great events but war and humanity really don’t go together. I’m also sure that in the entirety of humanity many people have considered war to be great, because they won. But war is not great. It is FUCKING WAR. A lot of people die and a lot of property is destroyed.

    This rant brought to you by someone who served during a war. And no I was not sent to fight in that war but a lot of people died during that war, a lot were disabled, some massively so. I see some of them because I use the VA and because I spent 2 months in a military hospital while serving. And there have been more lost and disabled veteran citizens since.

    Humanity needs to find a better way, because humanity has been building better weapons of death since I was in and we had more than enough of them then. All that brings is a lot of death and all the aftermaths of that. I see those aftermaths every time I go to the VA. The ones you don’t see are the ones six feet under or the ones that never even made it back.

    The military strength may stop or slow war, but for some it is another lever of power to use against others.

    I want a better humanity.

    I’m not holding my breath.

    End of rant.

  377. 377.

    Hamlet of Melnibone

    There are areas of gambling where there are people who win more than they lose over the long haul. Poker is the most obvious one.  It’s a game of skill where the casino takes a little bit out of every pot.  If a player has enough of a skill advantage over the other players at the table, they’ll tend to win over time.  It will be bumpy, and judging whether that skill advantage exists is really hard, but there are people who make a living playing poker.

    Likewise, DFS (Daily Fantasy Sports) is a game of skill that the sports book is just taking a cut of.  A lot of the people playing it aren’t good at it.  A few are very good.  Those few tend to win money at it over time from the people who aren’t good at it.

    The biggest issue is that the number of people who think they are good enough to win is at least an order of magnitude higher than the actual number of people good enough to win.

  378. 378.

    Bill Arnold

    @The Audacity of Krope:

    The former are nobodies, the latter is an accomplished gentleman of high esteem.

    Punching down vs punching up.
    Authoritarians believe, genuinely believe, that punching up is wrong and that punching down is simply executing the will of god.

  382. 382.

    AnthroBabe

    @Chris: No, just…no. He was president and he kept saying he would come up with a plan YEARS ago on healthcare. It shows, at the very minimum, that he isn’t as prepared to be president. The fact that he actually held this job makes having only a “concept” BULL SHITE

    ETA: I see that many commenters have said this and I CONCURRR.

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