Harry the retreat, shoot the enemy’s wounded, and loot the corpses!
A Walk Amid The Ruinshttps://t.co/oSzP5D8A5K
— Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) September 12, 2024
Come along on a short walk across the battlefield, checking out the smoking ruins, the shattered artillery pieces, and the tattered flags of the MAGA armies.
1) El Caudillo del Mar-a-Lago‘s drop-by in the post-debate spin room was a real tell. Usually, candidates avoid the spin room as though it’s a cholera ward. The spin room is a job for vice presidents, at best. (J. Divan Vance did show his face, but mostly to defend the dog-eating fantasy.) But, usually, you trot out experts, or famous senators, to make your case. You don’t allow the ambulatory carcass of what used to be your candidate to come out and blither to Kaitlan Collins of CNN about how he “won all the polls” after the debate was over. That was pure desperation with a fine glaze of flopsweat on it…
9) On the scale of Defending The Indefensible, I think it was a tie between his defending his infamous ad calling for the execution of the now-exonerated Central Park 5 and the following delusional account:
We did a phenomenal job with the pandemic. We handed them over a country where the economy and where the stock market was higher than it was before the pandemic came in. Nobody’s ever seen anything like it. We made ventilators for the entire world. We got gowns. We got masks. We did things that nobody thought possible.
And, somehow, 350,800 Americans died of Covid in 2020. Phenomenal.
in the sense that a shellacking is a draw because you're shiny now https://t.co/aqtthA4uuD
— cai (@AnneNotation) September 12, 2024
Rolling Stone, “Trump Rushes to Spin Room to Save Face After Disastrous Debate”:
The clearest sign that Kamala Harris’ campaign thought she won the ABC presidential debate was the fact that her elated surrogates in the post-debate spin room were gloating about “finally landing a punch on Donald Trump” — and floating the possibility of a rematch.
The clearest sign Trump knew he lost was the fact that Trump himself appeared in the spin room to defend his debate performance on Tuesday night.
Shortly before 11:30 p.m., the former president shuffled into the Pennsylvania Convention Center, where an armada of surrogates, including Robert Kennedy Jr., Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.), his daughter-in-law Lara Trump, former adviser Stephen Miller, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) — as well as running mate, J.D. Vance — had been struggling mightily to make a case that Trump did anything other than burst into flames on the stage…
The former president’s visit to the spin room caught much of Team Trump by surprise. Some aides received word he would be appearing only just before he walked in, accompanied by an entourage including top advisers like Steven Cheung, Boris Epshteyn, and Corey Lewandowski, a source familiar with the matter says.
Tim Murtaugh, a Trump campaign official who was present for the mad dash to shove cameras in Trump’s face, said Trump’s surprise appearance “shows fearlessness and confidence. Kamala Harris would never do it.” A Harris aide, who got swept up into the large huddle as Trump entered the spin room, remarked that it was a mistake for the former president to appear and that it looked “desperate.” …
He was right to be concerned, as his team was struggling to cast the performance as anything less than a cataclysmic disaster for Trump. Asked to address directly whether Trump had a bad night, Cotton said he had not seen “any of the commentary.” Asked why Trump didn’t detail any plans for his next term, Cotton said simply, “You don’t have to worry about what Donald Trump is going to do — you know what he’s going to do.” Lara Trump, his Republican National Committee co-chair, bemoaned the fact that there wasn’t enough focus during the debate on immigration.
Even the dead-eyed Miller was having trouble defending Trump’s fixating during the debate on conservatives’ racist, debunked claims about Haitian immigrants eating cats in Springfield, Ohio. (“They’re eating the pets of the people that live there, and this is what’s happening in our country,” Trump said on Tuesday.) Miller repeatedly referenced a 911 call raising concerns about geese instead; Gaetz referred to the same call when questioned…
It was California Gov. Gavin Newsom, though, who offered one of the most prescient observations early in the night. Asked how significant the debate would be in the grand scheme of things, he predicted it would make a difference — because of the way Trump himself would react.
“Donald Trump will not be capable of not overreacting to how badly he did tonight over the course of the next days,” Newsom said, roughly 40 minutes before Trump made his shock appearance in the spin room. “I think this will shape shift in a way that’s even more profound than the evening itself — we will see him reacting to this for weeks and weeks and weeks, with his pity party and his grievance mindset. I’m sure he’ll be complaining about the refs and the rules for weeks.”
“Clearly he is having a very difficult time processing that.” ??pic.twitter.com/WpZZlPBhWH
— Kamala HQ (@KamalaHQ) September 11, 2024
Tim Miller, at the Bulwark, “Inside Trump’s Spin Room From Hell”:
WHEN IT COMES TO SPIN ROOMS there is one unimpeachable truism that political hacks of all stripes can agree on: A winning candidate needn’t show up there.
So when the Secret Service arrived at the Pennsylvania Convention Center after Tuesday night’s presidential debate across the street at the National Constitution Center, the room began to buzz. We all knew which of the night’s two combatants felt compelled to appear before the assembled press.
The one who spent the evening on the receiving end of a spanking.
Burnt-sienna face paint melting around the edges, shoulders sagging, lips and neck hole pursed, Donald Trump shambled over to the bank of cameras. Reporters shouted questions about his bizarre claim that immigrants were eating pets. They wondered if he would debate his foe again, why he was so rattled by her, and whether he was disappointed that she had earned the coveted Taylor Swift endorsement…
Standing in the back, I tried to get in the mix, shouting repeatedly—to one communications staffer’s great annoyance—about Trump’s inability even to look in the alpha dog vice president’s general direction. “Why wouldn’t you even look at her?” I yelled out again and again…
There is no job in politics less fun than being the spin-room representative for a loser. Trust me, I’ve been there. You stand underneath a placard with your name, but you raise it only to half-mast in the hopes that the media jackals find some other prey first.
Just after Trump’s lame spin-room performance, I encountered Trump spokesman, Tim Murtaugh, a onetime establishment type I knew a little bit. He was huddled closely with one of the Washington Examiner’s MAGA content generators, Byron York. I leaned over and observed that Murtaugh had found a friendly voice. “Byron will write you something good,” I said. As Murtaugh grimaced at me, York grunted out “Fuck you.”
Then there was Trump adviser Corey Lewandowski, who hip-checked me following a debate eight years ago. After a brief reminiscence about those spin rooms past, I asked him what he thought Trump’s best answer was at the debate. “There were so many good answers,” he said before briskly departing my company. His former partner-in-crime David Bossie was even more flummoxed by that query. “That’s a good question. You are putting me on the spot,” he said, retreating to an easier subject, the former president’s record…
Coming off the MSNBC set, I caught California Governor Gavin Newsom, smile wide, hair uncharacteristically unkempt. Our last encounter was in a similar setting two months prior, following his attempt to put on a brave face for Joe Biden.
He locked eyes with me and immediately launched into a victorious spiel. “From minute one she owned him,” he said. “Now he knows her name.”
He then repeated the victor’s name purposefully. Each syllable in staccato.
“Kah-muh-luh. Kah-muh-luh.”
Absolutely fascinating.
Google searches for voter registration spiked during debate when Trump gave awful answer to January 6th question (whether he has any regret for what he did that day) and Harris called him out for it.@OutFrontCNN rolls tape and shows chart.
cc: @pbump pic.twitter.com/ScuviL8uE8
— Ryan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) September 12, 2024
On The Road – frosty – Peoples Federal Savings and Loan Association, Louis Sullivan, Sidney, OH. Interior
David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch
You can tell Kamala won the debate because Bloomberg media is back to complaining she’s not doing enough interviews.
Funny how they’re not concerned with Dump’s lack of interviews.
TBone
The “B side” of this vinyl is “Destitute and Losin”” 😆 🎶
https://youtu.be/ZptUsEv4zYQ
MagdaInBlack
Oh Tim, so mean to donald:
“Burnt-sienna face paint melting around the edges, shoulders sagging, lips and neck hole pursed, Donald Trump shambled over to the bank of cameras.”
Nice 😊
Chief Oshkosh
It’s such a target-rich environment of Trump fuck-ups, but one I haven’t seen discussed much is the implications of his denying, in the specific manner that he did, his role in J6. The excuse that “I was just asked to give a speech” was discussed by Jon Stewart (it was almost the only part of Stewart’s show that night that was worth watching). Jon rightly had one of his signature comedic meltdowns. However, the aspect that I haven’t seen discussed is how Trump now apparently views J6 as something that was fundamentally “bad” and is thus a colossal liability. The implications will never sink into the thick skulls of his cult followers, but he’s given them additional proof that they are just fodder.
Anyhoo, it’s just a pre-coffee meandering. You guys stay frosty. I’m off to my first dental appointment since the pandemic.
TBone
Tankie website spilled a fuckton of ink yesterday about the pets eating SNAFU.
Hothit dogs holler incessantly 🤣 insisting that such a thing may exist because they saw it on the internets (Pooty must be really taking this hard).Baud
@David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch:
They can just invent coherent responses to their questions.
BretH
@Baud:
They’ve certainly had enough practice at doing just that.
Baud
Via reddit
TBone
@Baud: in the Dept. of No One Could Have Predicted It 🙄 where they truly excel!
ETA ah shit, outlawing tubal ligation must be on their list.
Baud
Nominated!
Falling Diphthong
@Chief Oshkosh:Trump now apparently views J6 as something that was fundamentally “bad” and is thus a colossal liability.
I think he’s going to attempt to occupy all sides of January 6. But also that, finally, his supporters are starting to notice this.
oldster
Spouse and I were speculating that tfg will watch and rewatch the debate-tapes, obsessively, because that’s what he does. He’ll be dragging people into the screening room in Mar a Lardo, demanding that they tell him how well he did, that he really won, that he as smart, that the nasty woman was bad.
If it works him up into a cardiac event, that will be okay now. The nation would not have benefited from his death at an earlier time — when he could have been canonized, mythologized. But now the bubble has burst, and slowly the rest of the nation is seeing what many of us saw all along.
This is not the end. This is not even the beginning of the end — all of that still must happen at the voting booths. But it is the end of the beginning.
TBone
Not linking but 😆
(Daily Dot)
TBone
@Baud: those must be in Gently Used bin.
MagdaInBlack
@TBone: 😐 Ew.
bjacques
It’s not fair to say Trump has difficulty processing Tuesday night. He has a concept of a plan for doing so.
TBone
@bjacques: operative word fragment:
concept
Ken
Senator Cotton has no opinions or thoughts of his own, and just repeats what he sees on TV. No wonder he’s a Trump supporter.
But oh my, that Tim Miller excerpt above certainly reinforces the idea that the media are all stuck in high school emotionally.
Kay
Alberto Gonzales (former George W Bush AG) endorses Harris/Walz.
EarthWindFire
@Chief Oshkosh: Interesting. You’re probably right.
My take on it is to assume everything Trump says is true (yes, I know he’s lying through his teeth) That means the chief law enforcement officer of the United States made a speech to a group he felt the need to call the National Guard against. And his supporters have no problem with that utter lack of judgment.
Then, when the shit hits the fan, he didn’t call out the National Guard because he didn’t get his way the first time. And his supporters have no problem with that either.
Baud
@Kay: Jesus H. Christ.
Balconesfault
@Chief Oshkosh:
Ahh … there was something worth watching? I gave up on his whiny cynicism 2 minutes in …
Kay
I work with college educated Republicans – all of our judges are Republicans and so are 90% of our lawyers – and I think one CAN chip away at that group’s Trump support. There are two areas they are uncomfortable with – Trump (and his employees) criminality and (this is new) Trump’s contempt for veterans. They may not switch to Harris but I could see them leaving the top of the ballot blank. If it’s an ultra close race the high profile GOP defections might matter.
JoyceH
Looking back over the past week, what’s astonishing is how openly the Dems were saying “she’s going to bait him into losing it” and the Reps were saying “he mustn’t take the bait” —- and yet, he took the bait EVERY TIME. You know the Harris team prepared all that tempting bait in the hopes that Trump would find a few irresistible, but they can’t have imagined he’d take every one! The only conclusion is that Trump literally cannot control himself. And the Harris team is wondering if they’ll make it to shore before this overabundant catch sinks the boat.
Betty Cracker
Was pleased to learn that 67 million people watched Harris crush Trump in the debate. Far more than watched the Biden-Trump debate a lifetime ago.
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
@Balconesfault:
What was he cynical about?
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Yes. That’s nice, given the outsized importance of the debates.
Betty Cracker
Also, the notorious kook Laura “9/11 was an inside job” Loomer tagged along as Trump attended 9/11 ceremonies yesterday. That means he’ll keep yammering about things like pet-consuming migrants that reveal how deeply deranged he is. Wiles and LaCivita (Trump’s merely evil but not crazy campaign managers) might want to lure Loomer into a vault for the next 53 days…
Ken
@Kay: On the one hand, great. On the other hand, Gonzales seems incredibly naïve when he writes:
Dude, he’s going to do what he did in his first term and surround himself with people who give just as many f*cks about the Constitution as he does. There won’t be any appointees who refuse his orders — they’ll be reveling in them.
sdhays
@Baud: I know a family that moved back to a deep red state to be near family and that’s what they did before they moved. They already had 2 children, and that was enough, and they didn’t want to risk any surprises out there.
Balconesfault
@Chief Oshkosh:
Ahh … there was something worth watching? I gave up on his whiny cynicism 2 minutes in …@David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch:
My favorite is the complaint that “she didn’t talk enough about specifics … and that Trump doesn’t need to because after his first term we know what his policies are.”
Do we? Because I remember a first term that was a contradictory mess depending on what popped into his head on the crapper each morning while he tweeted.
What I DO wish people would point out more is that the annual deficit grew EVERY YEAR of Trump’s Presidency, starting in year one … and wasn’t just a response of the deficit bubble of Covid. Trump’s economic growth was completely a function of continuous government stimulus. And they bitch about Harris offering to help homebuyers (which I’m not excited about but I get why she’s putting it out there).
Shalimar
@Betty Cracker: Based on past stunts, Loomer can probably be tempted to chain herself to Musk until he gets her pregnant. That would keep both of them distracted.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊 😊 😊
Baud
@sdhays:
It sucks that they have to make that choice, but I applaud the recognition that red state governments won’t respect women.
lowtechcyclist
@Kay:
Who’s next, John Yoo? Or Don Rumsfeld’s dessicated corpse?
I can see The Onion: “Hannibal Lecter endorses Harris”
Baud
People on MJ this morning were also complaining about the lack of interviews. She needs to do them to build a movement.
In fairness, the guy I heard says she could do nontraditional outlets.
TBone
@Kay: 💩 that fucking guy will never be Liz Cheney. This particular endorsement reminds me of that of Pooty. Troll!
Ken
@Betty Cracker: Someone on bluesky called Loomer Trump’s “emotional support lunatic”.
And in the “rooting for injuries” category, Loomer and Marjorie Taylor Greene are hurling insults at one another. Greene also thinks Loomer is bad for Trump.
Starfish
@Baud: Men also.
TBone
@lowtechcyclist: 👍
O. Felix Culpa
@Ken:
She does?
sdhays
@Ken: Alberto Gonzales was let go in the W administration when he got caught pressuring the US Attorneys under him to go after Democrats and ignore Republican malfeasance all for political benefit.
To have him wringing his hands about the sanctity of the oath of office is rich. He presided over the fucking template Trump wants to follow.
Baud
Via reddit, not sure when the picture was taken.
Baud
@Starfish:
Good.
TBone
@Ken: 💜😆🎶
https://youtu.be/gBl2G8Bd-aI
sdhays
@Baud: I think she should talk to everyone that’s not explicit conservative media except the NYT.
But I repeat myself.
Kay
@Ken:
It’s hard for Repubicans to admit It Was All A Lie – that their claimed moral and ethical high ground never existed.
I agree with you – that Party and “movement” has collapsed. It failed as an institution in a really profound way and Trump is the natural and inexorable result of that.
But, short term, high profile GOP endorsements may reduce college educated GOP engagement and enthusiasm so may matter. There’s risk in this huge tent too! I disagree with the people who say all these Republicans becoming Democrats won’t tilt the Party Right. I think they will. But it may be worth it to win.
They need a new Republican Party. But that’s not my problem.
Baud
@sdhays:
Agree on the NYT.
I’m not going to give her advice on what she should do. But media publicly whining about it is pathetic.
TBone
@sdhays: exactly 🎯
Baud
@Kay:
Winning is everything.
Shalimar
@Ken: Loomer and Greene have a history. Loomer did her “investigative reporter” bit months ago to dig up negative dirt on Greene, and Marjorie has been on an anti-Loomer crusade since then.
Starfish
@Kay: The contempt for veterans has been there since Khizr and Ghazala Khan appeared at the 2016 DNC.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
Seconded!!
Every time I look at that pic, I start laughing again.
mrmoshpotato
Life-long Manbaby Fuckup Has A Sad At Getting His Ass Beat By An Actual Adult In Debate
Kay
@Baud:
I know it’s unpopular here but I agree. Normies are not going to understand our media theory. I think we’re up our own ass with this. It’s WAY “too online”.
Just do a whole bunch of interviews! All kinds! I have no idea when this became this huge decision. Exclude the NYTimes – but do the rest.
Baud
@Starfish:
Agreed.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Kay: Holy crap.
I have to wrap my brain around being happy with something former AG Gonzales did?
Baud
@Kay:
Like I said, aside from shunning the NYT, I’m not giving them advice. I would think they’d want to avoid the possibility of a bullshit interview that generates adverse talking points for the media to obsess over. But she’s now had a chance to define herself, so it may be a good time to lean into that. I’m sure they’ll make good decisions.
Kay
@Starfish:
I agree.But -they noticed it with the Medal of Honor disrespect. It bothered them.
This country is very bigoted re: Muslims (including many Democrats). They probably assumed the Khans were Muslim so disregarded them. It’s basically US policy.
Splitting Image
A superficial thought for the early morning.
I just realized, looking at the side-by-side clips from the debate, that Trump’s bronzer makes his skin look almost the same colour as Harris’ natural complexion. All he really achieves with it is to make Harris’ skin look better by comparison.
Considering Trump’s audience, I also don’t think it’s a good look for a man to be standing next to a woman and wearing more make-up than she is.
TBone
@Kay: I disagree, she is meeting We the People where we are – online. No chance for spin that way, no chance of being diminished by use of framing and weasel wording.
But I suspect that she will soon also dominate via MSM coverage – timing is everything.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Baud: “She needs to do them to build a movement.”
They apparently haven’t noticed the excited movement around Harris already. Maybe because so many of the people in that movement are women?
Gin & Tonic
@Betty Cracker: I don’t want to be lookist, but morbid curiosity asks what the fuck has she done to her face?
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
The way I heard it pitched is that she needs interviews to take it to the next level.
TBone
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I used the law office fax machine to file an official Grievance against Gonzales at the Texas State Bar Association and still have their response (framed it for posterity).
mrmoshpotato
@Balconesfault: Haha! Yeah.
The team at The Daily Show is doing a fine job. Stewart didn’t need to come back with his yelly, stupid “meltdowns.”
Another Scott
It’s the usual actions of a bully – Who you gonna believe – me, or your own lying eyes?
He’s a pathetic, dangerous 🤡, as are his hangers-on.
Forward!!
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
The next big event will be the Veep debate. In some ways, that might be more interesting.
TBone
@Dorothy A. Winsor: 🎯 we are no longer gonna be invisible. Prepare yourselves for it, rethugs, in vain. We Shall Overcome.
Kay
@TBone:
Way too online. Political parties and people have to continually resist crawling up their own ass or they end up like the GOP.
Do a bunch. Flooding works on two levels – it gets her out to as many people as possible and she’s fabulous AND it reduces the influence of media celebrities by lumping them all together. Treat Dana Bash and Maggie Haberman the same as The Today Show or the reporters at the Toledo Blade. Cut them down to right size. Level it.
Obama did it. We know how to do it.
Starfish
@mrmoshpotato: The “meltdowns” look sadder the further he gets away from being three years old.
TBone
@Kay: when the time is right, she will deign to speak with the presstitutes.
They ignored her this whole time as VP, and turnabout is fair play.
satby
Ok, cat rescue update from the bleg a few days ago. Only waiting to hear from sab for confirmation and to set up transport. Feeling unbelievably lucky right now. You folks really came through for these bereaved guys.
And many thanks to zhena goglia for her kind contribution toward transport. One cat is flying with me (in the cabin) to Seattle, and that fee is $95. The other transports will mostly be me driving a combined total of 14 hours each way in my not-economical gas guzzler. So that was a real blessing. Between my Buddy (who is doing ok but had another trip to the vet on Monday for X-rays) and this it’s been a wee bit stressful 😂
Jeffro
I agree, 100%. I can’t stand it when people say, “X event that happened or thing trump said (or an impeachment, or a conviction, or a civil judgement, or or or ) won’t matter.” Hey – let’s try! Let’s see if it does!
It costs us nothing. More importantly, whether we win them over or not, we have not let them off the hook. GOP voters have agency and they have responsibilities as citizens. We ought to never, ever, just let it go.
mrmoshpotato
@Shalimar: I would get some popcorn and watch them fight if not for the very real possibility of puking it up at how disgusting they both are.
Jeffro
@Betty Cracker: apparently MTG is publicly criticizing some racist thing Loomer posted on Twitter last night(!)
…stopped clocks and all that…
ETA which I see Ken already noted, my bad =)
Starfish
@satby: I am glad that something is working out. That many cats is a lot.
mrmoshpotato
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Just a bit at a time to avoid a massive migraine.
Or do what I’m gonna do and go “Meh! I DO RECALL what a bastard he is!”
lowtechcyclist
@Kay:
I’ve got another idea: when the Big National Media Outlets say she needs to give them more interviews, she should just say, “Why? What questions do you want answered? Send them to my media contact, and as long as they’re questions about actual issues, rather than crap like ‘is Kamala Harris actually Black’ or ‘Trump says X, how do you respond?’ you’ll get answers.”
But I agree she should do interviews with anyone else she feels inclined to do. Regional independents like the L.A. Times, Cleveland Plain Dealer, and the Philadelphia Inquirer are good, and of course all those social media influencers that an old guy like me doesn’t know a damned thing about, but her team sure does.
satby
Especially since it’s not true, it has mattered to all but the hardest core cultists. His support has dropped, and even if you assume some are just embarrassed to admit they’ll still vote for him, others are angry they were played by that conman. Really angry.
Kay
@TBone:
Normal people aren’t tuned into our punishment scenario. They will have no idea what we’re talking about. It sounds nuts.
The job is not to reform the US media. The job is to get elected.
I would advise not carrying the baggage of 2016 and Biden’s withdrawal into this fight. People are begging to turn the page. Turn it.
If she does only a couple of interviews that makes each one of them more important and only adds to the gross, venal profit motive for the media celebrity. Dana Bash went on an interview tour after the Harris interview to promote her own career. Don’t give them that “exclusive” status. Do 4 a week, 20 minutes each, with all kinds of people and all kinds of shows. Cut them down to size by putting them in a huge group that includes People magazine and Oprah and sports shows.
columbusqueen
@satby: May I ask who is going where? I would have liked to take a couple, but we are at our limit with six already.
TBone
Flaming 🤡 show! 😆
https://crooksandliars.com/2024/09/kim-guilfoyle-gives-epic-failure-speech
Video at link for purposes of mockery and schadenfreude. Use your ad blocker.
satby
@Starfish: these kinds of situations seldom do if the family or a close friend doesn’t take in the orphan(s). So I honestly am grateful. The daughter can’t believe it.
mrmoshpotato
@Starfish:
Agreed.
frosty
And Hot Ones! Please!!! After all, even Nixon did a bit on Laugh-In.
Kay
@lowtechcyclist:
Normal people don’t parse this so close. They don’t think the questions are bad. They literally just started paying attention and they’re not putting this into the partisan Democrat political junkie frame of media infractions going back to Al Gore. Let them recite Trump’s stupid shit to her and she’ll (ably) wack it down. People just want to see her. They’re not writing a political science paper.
I hope she goes forth and floods. It’s the perfect time. She had an awesome intro with that debate and now it’s time to build on it.
TBone
@Kay: I’m pretty sure her genius campaign media team has got this already. I would not presume to offer advice to those already doing such stellar work.
Splitting Image
@satby:
I think you’re right about this, but there’s going to be no real evidence of this until election night. If a sizeable number of Republicans are angry enough at him to stay home or leave the Presidential line blank, it will show up in the results.
It’s never going to show up in the polls because they’re based on who the pollster thinks is a “likely voter” and they all think that hard-core Republicans are likely voters, even if they’ve taken down their Stop the Steal flags and put their Trump signs away.
But I think you’re right. Enthusiasm on their side is way down.
Kay
@frosty:
Remember how successful Obama’s pop culture media interviews were? He’s funny! He has great comic timing. Harris is charming. She has a warmth that I have never seen in a national politician. It’s unique. she’ll do GREAT.
satby
@columbusqueen: sure: Bunny the tortie is going to cckids’ in Seattle
William the outside boy is going to join eclare in Memphis
Solly and Echo, the siblings, are going to sab in Ohio
And the daughter decided to keep Siri, the oldest cat as a way of honoring her mom’s hope that she would take all of them. She’s the cat who’s a little higher maintenance (just a little) due to her age and previous injuries.
lowtechcyclist
@Kay:
And Teen Vogue. Definitely Teen Vogue.
But I still say they should give the self-important national outlets a pass. Just have them submit their questions in writing, and answer them the same way.
Baud
@Splitting Image:
Agreed. The same could be said for the turnout on our side. No way to really know.*
*If the polls get really lopsided, then they’re probably not that off. The last election I can recall where the outcome was a yawn was 1996.
satby
@Splitting Image: I hear it every day at the farmers market. Not all of them, by any means, but the shift is real. I assume many will vote straight R down ballot, but not the top of the ticket. They’re angry and feel betrayed. It’s mostly vets.
Kay
@Jeffro:
We’ve seen this before. Obama had a lot of high profile conservative supporters. They didn’t stick (at all) because of course they didn’t – they were all in the Tea Party immediately after- but they helped get him elected. I personally still think Liz and Dick Cheney are horrible people though. They’re liars. But we have to win.
TBone
@Splitting Image: Guilfoyle had to urge a roomful of the best rethuglicans “You can clap for that!” when she failed at emphasis (that plus she needed horns to go with the rest of her attire). Please clap! 😆
TBone
@satby: HAPPY ENDINGS ARE THE BEST thank you for sharing that info!
Baud
@satby:
Good. They should.
And I’ll add that I’m grateful that I’ve never felt that a Dem was so disrespectful to me that I had to make the sort of choice Republican vets have to make.
Starfish
@frosty: That would be great. Have both of them do Hot Ones.. Harris keeps her cool as Walz struggles when things get hotter than black pepper.
The Hot Ones host asks some incredibly thoughtful questions.
Kay
@lowtechcyclist:
I don’t think this view is mainstream and we need “mainstream”. We need bulk support.
The worst mistakes I made in my career were always when I was trying to control or change something that was outside my job. I tell young lawyers to ask “who do you represent?” and “what are you trying to accomplish for that person?” when they’re unsure of motive or incentive. Works like a charm.
Focus. Harris is not in charge of reforming US media. She has a different job.
SFAW
@Baud:
Especially if Walz, at some point during the debate, affecting a Bahston accent, says something like “Or, as JD might say, ‘So fah, so good‘ .”
lowtechcyclist
@satby:
I’d be happy to contribute towards transport and other expenses! I know it’s been a lot to deal with, and I think it’s awesome when someone steps up like you have to keep these kitties from being euthanized. Does WaterGirl have your info?
O. Felix Culpa
@SFAW: Umm, JD went to Yale Law, which is not in Boston, last I checked. :)
Baud
@satby:
You’re a saint.
Another Scott
@lowtechcyclist: My (possibly faulty) recollection is that the usual course of events is that late in the campaign after the debates, the candidates fan-out across the country to important battlegrounds to build up enthusiasm, promote other members of the team, yes – do big fundraisers – and weave strong, long, and broad coat-tails, and do everything possible to boost turnout.
I don’t recall previous demands that the candidates drop all that and do blitzes of “exclusive” interviews with favored expensive media market representatives.
I am willing to trust that Harris and Walz and their team have a plan and are executing the plan.
The expensive media representatives can keep reprinting their lazy old pre-written narratives that Harris is too much this and not enough that and she’ll just keep on keeping on lapping them and running up the score.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
lowtechcyclist
@Jeffro:
She’s just mad she didn’t say it first!
danielx
@Betty Cracker:
They also might think about luring Trump into a vault for the next 53 days. You know, so as not to overexpose the candidate. Maybe send him to Abu Dhabi or something.
Ken
My hope is that Trump tells Vance he’s got one job, and that’s to push the pet-eating story. “Prove I was right!”
satby
@Baud: well the ones still in the tank aren’t aware that his disrespect is real. They have alternatives that keep that from them. And though people slag here about the right wing echo chamber, it’s a normal human impulse to seek out confirmation that what you believe is correct. I offer this whole blog as evidence. We do it too, just not to the extent that reality completely blindside’s us. Most of the time, anyway.
Baud
I think it was Matt McIrvin who said he had a MAGA friend in Massachusetts who thought the anti-immigrant rhetoric was going too far.
Obviously unrepresentative sample, but that’s something if that sentiment is even remotely out there, especially after this last debate.
Kay
I do think regular people on social media dragging media celebrities works, however. That’s effective. Media celebrities are 100% focused on their own dumb careers, take themselves incredibly seriously and they respond to working the refs. Think of them all as salespeople and the product is themselves. Bad product reviews make them nervous. I just don’t think the candidate should let it drive strategy.
TBone
@Another Scott: that’s what I was inadequately trying to say in fewer words, thank you. That’s worth more than two cents.
satby
@Baud: I most certainly am not 😂
Baud
@Ken:
Hasn’t Vance been pushing that story even more than Trump so far?
satby
@lowtechcyclist: my info is skinluvvers (at) Gmail dot com, and that’s very kind of you!
TBone
More in the Florida Dept. of Please Clap:
https://crooksandliars.com/2024/09/desantis-orders-elected-gopers-oppose
Baud
@satby:
I agree about human nature. But I think most of us see enough negativity toward our point of view elsewhere that this blog is more of a sanctuary from it than anything else. Our enemies want us to feel alone and isolated.
But the risk is real in all settings, and people here like everywhere are at risk of succumbing to the effect.
satby
@danielx: I remain convinced that if it’s obvious he’s losing, the convict will cash out what he can and run for the border. Because even his SCOTUS will cut him loose when it’s obvious he’s toast. Expect a much more finely tuned set of presidential immunity decisions once the Ds win.
Another Scott
@satby: I’ve wondered for a while if he actually has a valid passport any more. NBCNews.com (from September 2022):
Personal passport expired. He’s not an official of the US Government any more, so presumably those are invalid as well (but I haven’t checked to see if he would be in some special category).
Yeah, he could have gotten a new one, but he probably figures he doesn’t need one because he’s God-Emperor Turnp! It would be funny if he doesn’t have one, tries to leave the USA, and cannot get off his plane because he doesn’t have the right paperwork. Or cannot leave wherever he ends up because he doesn’t have the right paperwork…
Not that I expect One Weird Trick here, but it would be funny…
Cheers,
Scott.
Peke Daddy
@oldster: He’s suffered a catastrophic narcissistic wound and will continue to emotionally bleed out, doubling down in the process. The GOP is starting to go down the drain with him, doubling down on the pet eating blood libel.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I’ve already seen dozens of tiktok videos mocking Trump’s debate answers. The most popular one by far is “eating cats and dogs.” That one must have struck normies as totally crazy. I’ve also seen “concepts of a plan” from writers.
p.a.
@Kay: Alberto Gonzales (former George W Bush AG) endorses Harris/Walz.
@Baud:
Sometimes the tent can be too big!? But for this election: everyone in the No-to-Fascism tent is *sigh* o.k.
BritinChicago
@Balconesfault: About knowing what Trump’s policies are from his first term: what I remember about health care is that the policy was to repeal the ACA and replace it with something wonderful. (And rainbows and ponies for everyone.)
satby
@Another Scott: he’s just stupid enough to try to run to Russia, where his propaganda worth would keep him alive for a while. And you’re correct, he probably thinks he doesn’t need a passport any longer.
I’m wondering what his SS guys do if he tries to go anywhere.
topclimber
@Kay: I say package the interviews with a national, a local and a social media outlet, conducted in a different swing state each month. Three people can conduct a meaningful interview; more than that and it becomes a press conference–probably the worst forum for getting across your ideas.
lowtechcyclist
@Kay:
I agree that people don’t parse it that closely, and that’s exactly my point! Do people really want to see her giving interviews to the WaPo or CBS or whoever, rather than seeing her give a speech at a rally in their state? Why would it matter to them if she says, “send me questions and I’ll answer them” and doing so, instead of sitting down for a FTF interview?
I think you’d have to be parsing pretty closely for this to matter, so I think that while the Big Media types would be miffed, it would fly under the radar of practically everyone else.
BritinChicago
@Kay: “It’s hard for Repubicans to admit It Was All A Lie”
Yes. I know it came up in the debate, and was fact-checked, but I’m surprised that (even) more has not been made of the fact that tcfg very clearly admitted, on camera, that he lost the 2020 election. (And it was clearly not sarcastic: he wouldn’t have said “by a whisker” if it was.) So he’s saying that he knows—and presumably has known for a long time, since there’s no recent news on the topic—that the whole basis for his major grievance is bogus, that he lied to all the Jan 6 people now in prison and to all his other supporters. The footage of his admitting it, along with footage of his saying the opposite to crowds, might make for good ads. (But there is so much material, none of which seems to be as effective as it should be.)
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@Betty Cracker:
The girl’s a sticker; my guess is that now she’s been allowed to glom on to him prying her off will be difficult.
jonas
The thing is, Trump talks to the media a lot. And by “talking”, I mean calls a “press conference” during which he rambles incoherently (aka “weaves”) for an hour, mostly whining about something, and then takes few or no questions, and if he does, all his responses are lies.
But hey, it gives a reporter something to do for the afternoon and they can feel they’ve earned their paycheck coming up with fifteen obtuse circumlocutions for “Trump was completely bugfuck for 45 minutes.” And then Harris and her surrogates have the nerve to call them out for “sanewashing” Trump. Harumph
ETA: plus, as a number of commenters have pointed out over the years, it’s also about access. If you show up to Trump’s whine-a-thons regularly, then you might also have an in with his staff or other sources when something really batshit insane goes down, like Melania leaving him, or getting arrested for yet another crime.
Barbara
@Baud: No, this is upside down. The media needs her to do interviews to drive their own ratings. It’s a sign that Harris has come into her own that she helps them get attention, not vice versa.
p.a.
One local TV morning poll yesterday (NOT the Sinclair station, the Nextstar group) had tRump winning 51%- 46%. I take it as a sign of their 4:30am to 9am demographic, and the grievance addicts’ propensity to whinge.
TBone
A “media moments” compilation that was compiled by Con Ray:
https://youtu.be/at2JX8WNyPw?si=3eqablTcOCIfOmcw
Laughter abounds! Laughter abides.
zhena gogolia
@satby: Good news!
lowtechcyclist
@Kay:
Focus: the mainstream media still make a difference to how a lot of people perceive things. The Big Media Outlets’ interviews are just opportunities to try to bring her down. The goal should be to minimize those opportunities while undercutting any reason they’d have to be pissed about it that would resonate with normies, and wouldn’t look to them like sour grapes.
Normies would think, “she’s willing to answer their questions, so what’s the big deal?” to the extent they’d think about it at all. That’s the desired outcome for the Harris campaign.
RaflW
re: Kaitlin Collins saying “several of them told CNN they were stunned that the former president failed to do a better job executing on the talking points that he had been preparing with his team for weeks against VP Harris. Trump had actually had done more debate prep ahead of his first meeting with Harris than he did for his debate with President Biden” I just have to laugh.
Four years of his utter nonsense during press rambles (the Covid ones were endlessly stupid!). He had to be briefed with photographs and 3rd grade level sentences & tiny paragraphs.
The level of self-delusion in the GOP about Trump’s “abilities” is telling. They’re all fools.
lowtechcyclist
@satby:
Email sent!
catbirdman
Some told the Emperor his new clothes were like the finest gossamer, at best, and like being granted a clear view of Medusa’s visage below those writhing serpentine tresses, at worst.
Dave
@TBone: You know it is but also they’ll try make sure that only really applies to white and maybe the right kind of East Asian women.
Others they’ll be looking for ways to sterilize them regardless of frippery such as consent.
sdhays
@Baud: I thought Vance was the one who injected into the discourse, which brought it up on the teevee that Trump saw.
Dave
@Ken: Have you ever read the classic “Who goes Nazi?” well Cotton is the type that is overdetermined and the even rarer breed who is manages to be both a natural authoritarian follower and authoritarian leader.
RaflW
@David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch: Bloomberg’s “back to complaining she’s not doing enough interviews”.
She just took questions from two ABC reporters for 100 minutes on Tuesday. Utter morons.
TBone
@Dave: that’s already happened to some women in ICE custody.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/mass-hysterectomies-ice-happened-trump-s-watch-they-re-america-ncna1240238
Not enough expletives in existence!
Makes me wonder anew about the trans surgery in prison comment at the debate. Always projection!
geg6
@TBone:
Exactly. I don’t presume to know better than a veteran campaign staff about how to communicate, with whom or through what outlet. Jesus. If my ideas are so great, then why am I sitting in some small town in southwestern PA opining about their “bad” ones? I don’t know their jobs, just as they don’t know mine. I’m inclined to not stick my nose into what I don’t know about and have never experienced.
catclub
@Ken: Gonzales was deeply involved in the Bush politicization of the DOJ. He should know.
catclub
What’s the fun in that? I am on the internet and hence an expert in everything. And I should let them know it.
Michael Bersin
I’m so old I remember when Alberto Gonzalez (r) was a Fascist pig – you know illegal surveillance, torture, politicizing the DOJ, just to name a few. Oh, wait, he still is.
It just goes to show you how scared they all are of Donald Trump (r).
RaflW
@Michael Bersin: I think the Bushies like Cheney, Gonzalez and I’m sure many others, are seeing their first opportunity in a while to maybe marginalize Trump without having to be in a pitched battle. They were fools and especially cowards not to have tried to take him down in the aftermath of J6. But now is better than never.
I still don’t want those evil people anywhere near the WH (or Senate, etc) ever again, though.
brantl
@Kay: He’s trying to whitewash himself, by having one scruple in his whole life; he’s never had another one, ever.
brantl
@Betty Cracker: His ass is grass.
brantl
He didn’t.
brantl
@lowtechcyclist:
I can see The Onion: “Hannibal Lecter endorses Harris”
I wish they would, that would finally aneurize that weak vessel in Stumpy’s head. “Oh the betrayal!”
Ruckus
@oldster:
But now the bubble has burst, and slowly the rest of the nation is seeing what many of us saw all along.
This has been a long journey, to this day when djt did his best on stage and most everyone now understands – even if they won’t admit it – djt is a far worse than useless POS. All the grace and stupidity of an old, racist, deranged, far worse than useless human being, in all his glory, as non existent as that is, he may actually enter in a new concept of politics – not
everyany racist, ignorant, useless POS is a vital candidate for the highest office in this country, where we should vote in a person who personifies the basic concept of this country, even as many citizens have no idea what that means. Someone who is smart, better represents 1/2 the population than any president prior, who actually understands the concept of this country, of humanity, that living and freedom and not the almighty dollar is what this country stands for. I wonder if there is a Moms for Kamala group. Wonder no longer there is. As an older male member of this countries citizenship I support her. I have worked on political campaigns in the past, absolutely a minor player for sure, have served in our military and in my 3/4 of a century have voted for some good men and I have voted once prior for a woman candidate. This is a country of all the citizens and we deserve the best leader possible. We have massively overwhelming evidence that is NOT djt in this contest. As someone who has actually selected Kamala Harris on a ballot and has seen the results, I’ll happily do the same again.VOR
“So just ask yourself: Do you really think Donald Trump have the temperament to be Commander-in-Chief?
Donald Trump can’t even handle the rough-and-tumble of a presidential campaign.
He loses his cool at the slightest provocation. When he’s gotten a tough question from a reporter. When he’s challenged in a debate. When he sees a protestor at a rally.
Imagine, if you dare, imagine — imagine him in the Oval Office facing a real crisis. A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons.” – Hillary Clinton, 2016
Msb
@satby: lovely news. Thanks for all your hard work contributing to this happy outcome.