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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Every Time the Sun Comes Up, Boeing is in Trouble

Every Time the Sun Comes Up, Boeing is in Trouble

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Every Time the Sun Comes Up, Boeing is in Trouble

Yesterday, 96% of the members of the union representing Boeing’s machinists in the Pacific Northwest voted to go on strike.  Today, they’re on strike:

Tens of thousands of Boeing workers walked off the job early on Friday after voting overwhelmingly to strike for higher pay, halting production of the planemaker’s strongest-selling jet as it wrestles with chronic output delays and mounting debt.

The company said on Friday it was ready to talk and “get back to the table to reach a new agreement” as striking workers picketed.

The newly installed Boeing CEO Kelly Ortberg had pleaded with workers not to go on strike – the first since 2008 – ahead of the vote, saying the action would put the company’s “recovery in jeopardy”.

Ortberg comes to Boeing from aerospace giant Rockwell Collins and is a former engineer.  He’s been on the job for a little over a month.

The initial press reports about the Boeing contract indicated that the union got a pretty good deal, but when you dig into the details, it’s clear why the membership decided to go on strike.  The “promise” to build the next generation single-aisle narrowbody in the Seattle area only lasted for four years (the life of the contract), and it’s unlikely that anything but design work will be happening on that aircraft by 2028.  The new contract didn’t re-instate the pension that was conceded away in negotiations ten years ago, and the union had wanted a 40% raise over 4 years, not the 25% in the new contract.

The union is in a pretty good bargaining position.  The 737-MAX, built by these union members, has a long backlog.  The 777-X, the next generation of that popular airplane, will also be built by union members in the PNW.  There’s also the utter disaster of the 787, built by a non-union workforce. That plane’s production history is pretty terrible, including an issue with shims in 2023 and 900 incorrectly tightened fasteners per plane in 2024.  And there’s also the Starliner debacle.

In somewhat related news for any aviation nerds reading this, the first officer of the Alaska Air 737-MAX that had the door plug blow out sat down for an interview with CBS News.  Alaska Air and the Airline Pilots’ Association (ALPA) should give this woman bonuses for her dramatic telling of her tale of her captain and her saving that airplane.  The guy sitting next to her is apparently her ALPA rep, and he jumps in towards the end to point out the insanity of cutting flight crews down to one person on the flight deck, which is something airlines are just aching to do if they can get away with it.

Finally, since this is an aviation post, it’s always made me wonder why Trump’s airplanes don’t have more trouble.  He’s clearly a cheapskate and corner-cutter.  Well, his plane might be doing OK, but JD better watch out.  The most recent incident with Trump Force Two was that it entered prohibited airspace in Washington, DC, which is a serious fuckup.  That plane also declared an emergency last month and had to return to Milwaukee for a door seal repair.

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    83Comments

    2. 2.

      geg6

      I saw that interview with the co-pilot last evening.  Harrowing shit.  She really is a good story teller and you could picture what was happening from her description.

      One of my best friends is a flight attendant, usually flying international.  I worry about her all the time.

      Reply
    3. 3.

      @mistermix.bsky.social

      @geg6:

      One of my best friends is a flight attendant, usually flying international.  I worry about her all the time.

      Hope she’s flying in an Airbus or 777.  The 787 issues give me the willies.

      Reply
    5. 5.

      sdhays

      My 5 year old likes to pretend he has a spaceship and whenever various components are failing, I always ask him if Boeing was responsible for these components – and the answer is usually “yes”. He now assures me before launch that Boeing didn’t have anything to do with THIS spaceship.

      Reply
    7. 7.

      CaseyL

      It’s just obscene what’s happened to Boeing.

      Part of me thinks this is not a good time for the engineers to go on strike – FSM knows Boeing needs good engineers now more than ever – but considering that Boeing has spent the last decade essentially shitting on them, and (despite having a new CEO) has not said plainly that its entire corporate culture is going to do a 180 asap, then this might be a perfect time to strike.

      I do believe Boeing’s future as a company is on the line.

      Reply
    8. 8.

      lowtechcyclist

      @HumboldtBlue:

      On Monday, the New York Times ran an article with the auspicious headline, “As Debate Looms, Trump Is Now the One Facing Questions About Age and Capacity.” In the piece, the Times’ chief White House correspondent Peter Baker stipulated, “Often [Trump’s] mangled statements are summarized in news accounts in ways that do not give the full picture of how baffling they can be.”

      Ah, the glories of the passive voice! “Summarized in news accounts” by whom, Petey boy?  Might one of those people be the fellow you see in the mirror every day?

      Reply
    9. 9.

      Butch

      Discouraging to me that MSNBC’s Chris Jansing chose to focus on the impact to air travelers rather than the issues in the strike.

      Reply
    11. 11.

      trollhattan

      The next cost-cutting step would be having an Airport Pilot in charge of takeoff. After reaching 10k feet the pilot sets autopilot and parachutes back to the airport to within 50 miles of the airport.

      Landing can be crowdsourced to the passengers using The Wisdom of Crowds® technology. “We pass the savings on to you.”

      I am not an internet crank. (Ocean freight lines want to eliminate crews and just use harbor pilots for departure and arrival. I wonder what Baltimore thinks of this idea.)

      Reply
    12. 12.

      Dan B

      We live a mile from Boeing Field, King County International (formerly / currently? Municipal) Airport and the former headquarters.  When Lockheed c-suite took over they moved the headquarters to Chicago, far from the engineers.  Currently it’s a fight between the shareholders / CEO’s and employees.  Despite headquarters being far away the Seattle Times coverage did not explain why the workers were likely to strike or why they voted to do so.  Corporate media fail.

      Reply
    13. 13.

      trollhattan

      @@mistermix.bsky.social:

      A pilot friend who only flies long haul loves the 787 over the 747 and 777–her previous favorites. I’ll give her my proxy vote given I only ride in the things.

      Her husband, another pilot, remains perplexed they did the Max instead of updating the 757 and putting the 737 out to pasture. This is where the beancounters took over and began making bad decision upon bad decision in favor of the stock price.

      Reply
    14. 14.

      Scout211

      In other news, Trump’s social media stock is up because he said today that he’s not selling.

      Should we believe him? Ha Ha.  Never.

       

      Former President Donald Trump said Friday that he is not selling shares in his controversial social media company, an announcement that sent the stock prices skyrocketing.

      Trump and other insiders in Truth Social owner Trump Media & Technology Group will be free to sell shares as soon as next week when lock-up restrictions are set to expire.

      “No, I’m not selling. No, I love it,” Trump said during a press conference in response to a question from a reporter.

      Trump’s comments instantly sent the volatile company’s share price spiking 25% on Friday afternoon before trading was halted for volatility. In late afternoon trading, Trump Media was up 19%.

      “People think that I’m leaving. That’s why they’re down, ‘cause it’s different if I leave. But I’m not leaving,” Trump said.

      Reply
    15. 15.

      ascap_scab

      According to FAUX Neuz just now, ‘Donald Trump is the real progressive because Kamala Harris is running playbook 2019!’

      Reply
    17. 17.

      trollhattan

      @Dan B: Wish there were a mRNA vaccine to rid Boeing of the Lockheed contagion. Worst fish-swallows-whale tale in manufacturing history.

      My jr high overlooked Being field. Planes all day–we could ID them by the engine sound.

      Reply
    28. 28.

      rikyrah

      Sam Stein (@samstein) posted at 1:10 PM on Fri, Sep 13, 2024:
      Trump just pledged to do mass deportations from Springfield. The migrants are there legally. They’re Haitians. He said he’d deport them to Venezuela
      (https://x.com/samstein/status/1834655805502554129?t=ZS–N4dQHqmziM8CBN56bg&s=03)

      MeidasTouch (@MeidasTouch) posted at 1:23 PM on Fri, Sep 13, 2024:
      Not only are they there legally, but the town begged them to come to help revitalize their city, which was suffering badly at the time. These immigrants, pursuing the American dream, renewed the economy, worked at local factories, and brought it back from the brink of disaster.
      (https://x.com/MeidasTouch/status/1834659151139815796?t=4U0__U75OpbhvcjzANCR5g&s=03)

      Reply
    34. 34.

      trollhattan

      @Raoul Paste: ​
      Wishing you a pleasant and on-time flight (which once seemed no big deal, but now?)

      The 787’s “secret” is higher cabin pressure than other airliners, which makes long flights easier to tolerate.

      Reply
    37. 37.

      Jackie

      Innocent people are going to be murdered; and the killers will be TCFG and Vance:

      Bomb threats on Friday forced the evacuation and closure of public schools and municipal buildings for a second consecutive day, as the city continues to deal with sudden national attention due to false claims involving its Haitian population,” NBC News reports.

      “Donald Trump and his running mate, JD Vance, have pushed those false claims as part of a broader effort to use Springfield as an example for what they say are the harmful consequences of immigration.”

      And RawStory has an in-depth article regarding this atrocity. Here’s a snippet:

      “Police Chief Allison Elliott said that due to the seriousness of the threat, officials evacuated multiple buildings in addition to City Hall, including BMV Springfield Driver’s Exam Station, Ohio License Bureau Southside, Springfield Academy of Excellence and Fulton Elementary School.”

      Despite the reports of the bomb threat on Thursday, hours later Donald Trump used his Truth Social platform to promote the Republican nominee working to unseat Democratic U.S. Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio, by spreading more anti-Haitian immigrant racism.

      “Bernie Moreno has a very good chance of winning Ohio against a Radical Left Democrat, Sherrod Brown, with what is happening in Springfield, and other parts of the State,” Trump declared Thursday afternoon, referring to the far-right extremist Republican who is currently leading in the polls by low single digits.

      Trump then invoked his racist Haitian immigrant lies.

      “Ohio is being inundated with Illegal Migrants, mostly from Haiti, who are taking over Towns and Villages at a level and rate never seen before.”

      USA Today also reported that the “false rumor that Haitian migrants were stealing and eating pets began to circulate in the days leading up to the debate and was further popularized through posts by JD Vance, Trump’s running mate about his own state and AI-generated images shared by Trump, Elon Musk and the Republican House Judiciary Committee.”

      Much more in the link:

      https://www.rawstory.com/hell-isnt-hot-enough-fury-at-trump-as-more-school-evacuations-follow-pet-eating-lies/

      Reply
    38. 38.

      laura

      There is never a “perfect” time to strike. It’s scary, it requires more trust and faith than many people have. It reveals a lot- strength, character, leadership. It profoundly changes relationships at work. It is boring af. It has moments of fun and solidarity. It cannot be taken lightly. We should respect a picket line and never cross.

      To conduct a successful strike you must have: an achievable goal, full buy-in and commitment by the membership to go out and stay out until you reach the goal and, you must have a message for the public about why you are striking and why their inconvenience is a necessary part of the plan. Public support can go a very long way in helping strikers stay out.

      I’ve walked so many miles over so many strikes. The first time I walked a picket line was when I was about 10.

      My dad was a butcher and meat cutter. His union went on strike over the concentration and centralization of the industry. Prior to that, whole or half carcasses were delivered to the grocery store. The head butcher would go out to the truck and inspect the delivery, look for the USDA stamp and make the final determination whether the carcass was fit for consumption and sign off on the delivery bill of lading. Only then could the delivery be off loaded and brought in for preparation before sale. Dad had broken his leg, but was driven to the picket line and he sat, leg in a cast, for his shifts. He made us kids join him after school and on weekends. Ultimately the strike ended unsuccessfully and now almost the entire industry is concentrated in the midwest, owned by 4 major companies. Now meat is delivered in giant plastic sacs that are filled with parts from many animals and there is a lot of viscous fluids which makes it impossible to judge the fitness of any particular portion.

      We saw how they treated their workers during covid. When you hear about multistate recalls after serious or deadly food poisonings- that’s how that happens.

      I respect the strike and workers who are willing to put their financial wellbeing on the line in an act of solidarity with their coworkers to improve their work lives. While they are fighting for those improvements, they are also fighting for you- usually for your safety. I have zero regrets for walking that talk. After Thanksgiving I’m getting a hip replacement because I walked the line. Thank you for listening to my Loom talk\\

      Reply
    41. 41.

      Scout211

      @rikyrah:

      We still haven’t gotten down into the weeds of them

      LEAVING THOSE ASTRONAUTS STRANDED IN SPACE

       

      They have a plan. They brought the aircraft home already and Space Force Guardians will be sent to the ISS next week and after a few months will bring the astronauts home.

      I posted this article from Military,com earlier this month.

      A Space Force officer will command a mission later this month to safely bring home two astronauts who have been unexpectedly stuck aboard the International Space Station, or ISS, marking the first time a Guardian will launch into space for such a high-profile operation.

       

      Task and Purpose (no subscription required)

      NASA decided to send just two crew members on the SpaceX Dragon so that marooned astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams can use the spacecraft’s other two seats for their return voyage in February.

      NASA has astronauts, Space force has Guardians  (really) .

      Reply
    51. 51.

      Scout211

      @Manyakitty: and being at the mercy of spacex to get them home

      Yes, it sounds like a science fiction movie.

      Space Force Guardians will man the SpaceX Dragon for the first time in a high profile rescue mission to bring two NASA astronauts home!

      Reply
    61. 61.

      cmorenc

      @rikyrah: It’s terrifying that at least 45% of the electorate will vote for Trump despite his overt, vicious racism and scapegoating and malignant narcissism.

      Reply
    62. 62.

      The Audacity of Krope

      @Lapassionara: We need a “have you no sense of decency” moment, and we need it badly.

      Such a moment wouldn’t hit the same these days. Unfortunately, most of their elected officials don’t have a reasonable sense of decency and have encouraged that failing among too many of their constituents.

      Reply
    66. 66.

      Feckless

      Thinking you’re going to get a pension in 2024 is just rucking futs.

      The guarantee on building in Seattle needs to be stronger.

      But… Alaska Air got numerous warnings about that plane and THEY rated it safe to fly over land but not sea.  That is crazy and totally ignored after the first few stories.

      Reply
    68. 68.

      cmorenc

      @rikyrah: Repeal of the 13th & 14th Amendments is a politically impossible task, given the forbiddingly formidable math of getting 2/3 congressional approval + ratification by 3/4 of the states – nor will they succeed in the alternate route of getting 2/3 of the states to call for a constitutional convention (let alone ratifying whatever such a convention might produce).

      Instead, especially if Trump wins, they will continue to use the 6 majority RW justices to incrementally whittle away the substantive reach of these Amendments until what is left is an easily circumvented residual.  As an example, consider what Roberts did to the VRA despite the plain language of the 15th Amendment about congressional power to legislate enforcement of the fundamental constitutional right to vote.

      Reply
    69. 69.

      Bill Arnold

      @Geoduck:

      The Shaitgibbon is a cheapskate and corner-cutter with other people. He might care about his own safety a little more.

      Trump Force One was sitting at the side of the runway at Stewart International Airport well north of NYC, missing the port engine for a long while. There was white wrap covering up the mounting area.
      I’d go and check it out with binoculars every few months.
      They eventually (end of 2021) found an engine to rent long enough to fly it to Lake Charles (Louisiana) for a refurb. At least the workers there got work out of it.

      Reply
    71. 71.

      Mai Naem mobile

      The blurb I heard was that Boeing offered the 4 year 25.percent pay raise but increased the employee healthcare payments by an annual 10 percent. I don’t know the details but healthcare is usually a good chunk of change so 10 percent healthcare might easily by a  2.5 percent annual increase of the total package  so their 4 year  net pay increase would be 15 percent. Barely keeping up with inflation. Meanwhile the old CEO walks away with a gazillion dollar golden parachute on top of  the gazillion pay package he’d already gotten from Boeing.

      Reply
    72. 72.

      Bill Arnold

      I had missed this; interesting accusation:
      MAGA Pastor Claims Kamala Harris Deployed ‘Witchcraft’ in Trump Debate (Sep 12, 2024, Flynn Nicholls)

      MAGA pastor and evangelical leader Lance Wallnau has accused Kamala Harris of using “witchcraft” during Tuesday’s presidential debate.
      In a series of posts on X (formerly Twitter), Wallnau claimed that the vice president used supernatural manipulation to gain the upper hand in her combative showdown with the former president.
      “When I say ‘witchcraft,’ I am talking about what happened tonight. Occult-empowered deception, manipulation, and domination,” Wallnau wrote early Wednesday morning, following the debate.

      By “witchcraft”, he appears to mean emotional manipulation via collusion; he is intimately familiar with such methods as MAGA pastor. I’m sure that her piercing gaze and vivid facial expressions, with emphasis on “her”, had something to do with his thinking as well. (That split screen worked out impressively well.) (Mr. MAGA pastor. Trump has many enemies! :-)

      “She knew she could speak 20 lies about Trump and not be contradicted. That was the arrangement,” he wrote in a second post. “And that’s why I call it witchcraft, because it has the effect of planting and reinforcing thoughts in the mind of the listener that defiles perspective. This makes it easier to manipulate people.”

      Reply
    73. 73.

      karen marie

      @Geoduck:   The shitgibbon does not own the plane, nor does he maintain it.  That would be the owner, Eastern Air Express.

      The CEO of Eastern Air Express is one Jeffrey Conry, former president of iAero, a company which he helped drive into bankruptcy and wants to buy some of iAero’s assets.

      From April 2024:

      Multiple creditors oppose the sale of assets to Eastern Airlines, arguing that the sale process is designed to benefit Synovus at the expense of all other stakeholders. Private Jet Services Group, the general sales agency, alleges iAero and former president Jeffrey Conry, now an executive at Eastern, struck a non-cash sweetheart deal to help iAero’s owners avoid paying $102 million for breach of contract that began when Conry was at iAero.

       

       

      I’m not surprised that a pilot who works for Conry couldn’t find their way out of DC without violating restricted airspace.

      Reply
    74. 74.

      Mai Naem mobile

      @rikyrah: if TFG loses, I don’t think JD keeps his seat if he runs for reelection and that’s a big assumption. JD is a chickenshit and will probably not run if he thinks there’s a reasonable chance he loses. On top of that he may have a primary challenge. If I was an Ohio GOP rep or popular statewide politician I would consider running against him.

      Reply
    75. 75.

      prostratedragon

      @laura:  Thank you for that  bit of history. I remember when any grocery of reasonable size had a butcher and one could request their special cuts. I didn’t think much then about a union being responsible for that.

      Reply
    76. 76.

      karen marie

      @rikyrah:   I can’t see how this won’t end up benefitting Harris/Walz.  How many people who have been affected by Individual-1 and Vance’s terrorism will still vote for them?

      Reply
    77. 77.

      Bill Arnold

      Triple Hearsay: Original Sources of the Claim that Haitians Eat Pets in Ohio Admit No First-Hand Knowledge (SEP 12, 2024, Sam Howard and Jack Brewster)

      NewsGuard identified and tracked down the two people central to the claim: Erika Lee, the Springfield resident who wrote the original Facebook post, and Kimberly Newton, the neighbor who had provided her with a third-hand account of the rumor, making Lee’s social media post a fourth-hand account: the alleged acquaintance/cat owner; Newton’s friend; Newton; and Lee, who posted it on Facebook.

      Infographic of rumor chain

      Reply
    78. 78.

      Scout211

      @Bill Arnold: I posted that earlier today.  Good investigative work that no one else has done!

      This part was telling:

      “I’m not sure I’m the most credible source because I don’t actually know the person who lost the cat,” Newton said about the rumor she had passed on to her neighbor, Lee, the Facebook poster. Newton explained to NewsGuard that the cat owner was “an acquaintance of a friend” and that she heard about the supposed incident from that friend, who, in turn, learned about it from “a source that she had.” Newton added: “I don’t have any proof.”

      That adds up to three people with no firsthand knowledge of the allegedly victimized cat: Newton’s “friend,” Newton, and then her neighbor Lee. Or perhaps it’s four people if we count the “source” that Newton says her “friend” relied on

      Reply
    79. 79.

      sdhays

      @Bill Arnold: I get the feeling that person who’s cat was allegedly eaten still has their cat. Something along the lines of:

      ”She turned me into a newt!”

      ”She turned you into a newt?”

      ”…. I got better.”

      Reply
    80. 80.

      wjca

      @trollhattan: Wish there were a mRNA vaccine to rid Boeing of the Lockheed contagion.

      That’s one thing that pains me about this strike.  Boeing only just got the damn MBAs out, and an actual engineer in charge again.  For the first time since the McDonnell Douglas coup merger.  I’d really hoped he would get a chance to start turning things around.  Mind, I understand where the workers are coming from here.  Just wish the timing was different.

      Reply
    83. 83.

      Geminid

      @prostratedragon: The store I shop at in the little town of Stanardsville still does it the old way, with a butcher shop in back. Their chicken comes pre-packaged, but the pork and meat are cut up on site; they also grind their own sausage and hamburger. The prices are good too.

      Reply

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