Here’s the real reason Trump wants us to spend the week chasing rumors about people eating cats. pic.twitter.com/XAbYpT3Wgo
— Pete Buttigieg (@PeteButtigieg) September 13, 2024
Good. Good in it's own right to do local media, and good separately that @AlexThomp is having a tantrum about it. https://t.co/7Cx4Fod87a
— DCCyclone (@DCCyclone) September 13, 2024
#ACTUALNEWS: #Harris Campaign Launches New Spanish Ad With Trusted Community Figure to Share Harris’ Message with Pennsylvania Latinos
Local PA Radio Host Victor Martinez: “I’ve interviewed many candidates. They all talk, the difference is Kamala Harris listens.” pic.twitter.com/He6gIaeh1N
— Olga Nesterova (@onestpress) September 13, 2024
Our nation would not exist without the blood, sweat, and tears, and without the determination, dreams, and contributions of Black Americans.
As we host the first-ever White House Brunch in Celebration of Black Excellence, we honor this simple truth:
Black history is American… pic.twitter.com/5YFva71eIJ
— President Biden (@POTUS) September 13, 2024
We’re 3 hours from opening doors for the @SecondGentleman’s rally at The Villages and we’ve got a line out the door. When I tell you something is brewing in Florida, I mean it! pic.twitter.com/SNLiqwNZOg
— Karol Molinares (@KarolMolinares) September 13, 2024
Kamala Harris did the unimaginable.
A Democrat is finally winning this. https://t.co/FUmjSVqQJN— Florida Chris (@chrislongview) September 13, 2024
The Republicans for Harris coalition in AZ is growing every week. Bigger, stronger and more fired up to elect @KamalaHarris pic.twitter.com/P2Fmb3GvTN
— Abigail Rose O'Brien (@AbigailROBrien) September 13, 2024
Elsewhere…
Can we get savvy politics-knowers on the wisdom of campaigning in California? https://t.co/AZnkboNLaL
— Henry Porter ???? (@HenryPorters) September 13, 2024
It could be primarily fundraising which both parties do in NYC and CA. The difference this campaign is that Harris is sending high-powered surrogates like BHO and HRC to them while Trump doesn’t seem to have any high-powered surrogates.
— Steve Carrow (@SACarrow) September 14, 2024
Yup:
— clements michael (@clementsmichae4) September 14, 2024
Grovel, Donold, grovel!
92660 zip code is one of the biggest funders of the Trump campaign in the country wouldn't it be amazing if it went for Harris let's make it happen https://t.co/QnqKFofZGg
— LOLOCGOP (@LOLOCGOP) September 13, 2024
Baud
That doesn’t seem like a tantrum.
Baud
Most wealthy Republicans want to live in liberal areas. For the same reason you don’t see Trump ever in a photo with his MAGA supporters.
The Thin Black Duke
On one hand, I agree with what Buttigieg is saying about Trump using these outrageous statements as a distraction. On the other hand, it tells you something about the political reality we’re living in that a presidential candidate babbling about Haitians eating cats and dogs isn’t immediately disqualifying.
Baud
@The Thin Black Duke:
I don’t think it’s a distraction. I think he wants people thinking about immigration. Being ugly and violent towards immigrants is how he achieves that.
Ken
@Baud: Even his tantrums are smaller and less energetic.
Baud
@Ken:
I was referring to the DC Cyclone tweet about Alex Thompson.
Falling Diphthong
Maintaining my spring prediction that the RNC will deeply, deeply regret giving Trump control of their money.
Ken
The California visit is where Trump was pushing his exciting new concept of a plan, that he’ll let California agriculture can use as much water as they want — I guess because there will magically be more water when he’s president? That part of the concept was a bit unformed.
And of course that’s also the speech where he called Loomer a free spirit, but that got more than enough play in the previous thread.
Falling Diphthong
@The Thin Black Duke: Yeah, I think he has decided that going all in on Letting Trump Be Trump is the way to win back his crowds. And that means that all things (California’s water is dead, he will take on the smelt, and let me tell you about how we’re going to send all those Haitians back to Venezuela) will tie back to his favorite immigration rant.
Not claiming this as a deep strategy–he’s mentally deteriorating and so just cycles back into repeating the familiar lines. (Recalling now how Charles Pierce’s dad seemed fine until they did some construction near his home, sending him on a detour, which ended hundreds of miles away.)
Baud
Trump’s number one asset is not his MAGA faithful, but has always been the people who don’t really like him but refuse to stand up to him for one reason or another.
Ned F
@Baud:
Yes, it’s a round-about way to attack Ohio’s Senators over immigration. Take those two seats and control the Senate. TPM had a good point on this.
Baud
@Ned F:
Just Brown. Vance is Ohio’s other Senator.
The Thin Black Duke
@Falling Diphthong: What baffles me is this is the point where a presidential candidate is supposed to “pivot” towards the groups outside of their base and target the independents and undecided. The fact that Trump is still primarily feeding red meat to his voters is indicative that maybe their support isn’t as solid as his brain trust would like it to be.
Baud
@The Thin Black Duke:
They’re a much smaller number these days.
Ken
@Falling Diphthong: I’m hoping for some ironic twist, like Lara Trump “investing” the RNC funds in crypto then losing the USB stick with the credentials.
Trump has tried a couple of NFTs, and there has that weird business with the crypto coin that may, or may not, have been backed by Barron Trump, so those might be where the RNC funds end up.
TBone
C-Span aired that Whitehouse Brunch speech President Biden gave 👍
It was so nice to see him again!
Shalimar
@The Thin Black Duke: I don’t think it’s about support. Trump is trying to generate actual physical violence against immigrants, so his base is extra-motivated to vote, and a portion of the Democratic base is too terrified to risk it.
The Thin Black Duke
@Baud: Sure, but Trump needs more than his base to win and their numbers have a hard ceiling. The MAGA jerks love the immigration rhetoric, but I can’t see the Republicans in the suburbs giving up the black and brown people painting their houses and cutting their lawns.
TBone
My central PA local TV station is being inundated with political ads from both parties. Every single rethug ad, every one I’ve seen today, has the word “illegals” repeated ad nauseum. With enhanced depictions of POC of course.
TBone
@Falling Diphthong: 💙😆
Betty
@TBone: Just hoping they have overdone this pitch and people tune it out. How much hate and fear can one issue generate? I guess we’ll find out.
TBone
@Ned F: 👍 Heather Cox Richardson hipped us to that today as well.
Spanky
Couple of very fine pics up top of Trump’s totally normal right ear.
suzanne
@TBone: I don’t get why all these GOP idiots in Pennsyltucky give even half a shit about the border. No one wants to live in Pennsyltucky. It is rapidly depopulating. Even your own kids don’t want to live in Pennsyltucky.
I mean, I used to live an hour north of the border. Close enough that it was a salient reality. And I didn’t think about it half as much as these clowns.
Falling Diphthong
Just realized: Last week, when that thing leaked from the Trump campaign about no leaking, and you’d be fired if you leaked? And best guess was the Russian payouts were about to hit them? I’m guessing it was this.* Particularly as it seems the reason Loomer is suddenly breaking through right now is that people in the Trump campaign are calling up the press and begging them to put stories on the TV about how his supporters don’t want to see Loomer with him and it’s damaging to his reputation.
*Obviously it can be 2 things. Or 37 things. But I’m thinking the staff was worried about an October surprise of “Laura Loomer is your new first lady, and there will be a baby in the White House!”
TBone
@Betty: It’s really being overdone and I think it may backfire just as you described. The stark contrast of the positivity of the Dem ads shines right through. People like positive messaging.
Falling Diphthong
@Baud: A saw a German had categorized this as that point where you realize 1/3 of the country is willing to kill another 1/3 of the country while the final 1/3 stands there looking uncomfortable.
TBone
@suzanne: thEy Are sTeELiNg oUr JOBZ
PS not all of Pennsyltucky is awful, despite my vociferous complaints. There is a distinct reshuffling in the air. I smell integration all over the place.
Spanky
@Ken: “Free” spirit as in that it didn’t cost him $130,000.
BretH
“I don’t know anything about that. I’ll have to look into it.” Has that … … … former President ever, once in his life, taken responsibility for anything he gets even mildly criticized for?
Falling Diphthong
@Ken: I’m hoping for straight up “Flee to Venezuela with the cash.”
Spanky
@Ken:
“Did anyone check in Loomer’s cleavage?”
TBone
@BretH: I love this, wanted to see it again
suzanne
@TBone: The fact that no one wants to live in Pennsyltucky is why there are no jobs. There’s nowhere good to work, nothing fun to do, nowhere good to eat.
The overall pattern of urbanization is not an accident!
Msb
Trump looks awful in that clip, like his body is shrinking while his suits remain the same size.
I thought the arrangements for the Villages event were hush-hush. The preparations look pretty lively anyway.
Lyrebird
@Baud: agreed that it’s a main event, not a distraction and
@The Thin Black Duke: THANK YOU for saying that out loud again, it remains a shame for our nation that Shady Vance and and Trumpster Fire don’t just have their mics cut, their foul words bleeped…
Spanky
One more thing about the Loomer thing that I don’t think has been touched on:
lowtechcyclist
@suzanne:
Indeed! If you’re a small businessperson in a small town in a rural area, your customer base is dying off, or moving out as soon as they graduate from high school. If they had any sense, they’d be putting out the welcome mat for immigrants. It’s no secret that their presence has revitalized a number of small towns.
Falling Diphthong
@The Thin Black Duke: I think Trump’s 2016 “pivot” was in the heads of observers who know that’s what comes now. (For example, I remember speculation that he would promptly nominate Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court as a way to build an alliance with Democrats.) He just likes giving red meat rallies, while also wanting to be universally loved. The latter explaining why he’s occupying all positions on abortion, whether he lost the ’20 election, etc.
Politics is a terrible choice if you want to be universally loved.
lowtechcyclist
@Falling Diphthong:
A great destination for him, now that they’ve supposedly sent all their criminals here. Must be heaven on earth down there!
TBone
@suzanne: au contraire mon frere, there are vast stretches of the space between Philly and Pittsburgh where suburban sprawl has grown exponentially.
Mostall of the new construction has been in the high end price range. It’s been amazing (not in a good way) to see just how many people DO want to live here. My own neighborhood has exploded in size, and some Estates actually have real life modern castles on them. One went up for sale last year for $10 million. Most new homes are well over $500k.The sheer number of single family homes and residential construction hidden away in the hills and using former farmland is absolutely astounding.
Employers are the major health systems (UPMC, Geisinger), the prisons, and the Universities.
Betty Cracker
Thoughts this week from Trump’s “free spirit” traveling companion:
I didn’t realize the Great Replacement involved swapping American-born pets with foreign counterparts. Also, “Third World Crevasse” would make a good band name…
TBone
@Betty Cracker: 😆 I can’t help it. Her name will always be “buttlip.”
Crevasse!!!
Betty
@Msb: It seems plausible that he is using Ozempic to cause such shrinking.
MagdaInBlack
@Betty Cracker: I used to have domestic short-hair farm cats. Now I have a Siamese. See how insidious this is?
Kay
@suzanne:
There are jobs, though. There’s been a real resurgence in manufacturing – thank you Joe Biden.
Springfield OH was dying – they had lost 20k in population over 10 years. That meant housing was cheap. Then manufacturing surged and there were jobs available. Jobs + affordable housing draws new immigrants. It makes perfect economic sense.
Even entry level “operators” make 20 an hour now. Unskilled labor. Plus health benefits and retirement. They’ve had to compete for employees so wages and bennies have gone up.
So Springfield went from 80k mostly white to 60k mostly white (and dying) to 80k Black and white and thriving.
bbleh
@The Thin Black Duke: @Baud: I think it’s both. Racism is and long has been a major pillar of Republican politics, so it’s an automatic go-to, especially for someone whose head ain’t workin’ quite as well as it used to. But it’s also just his instinctive showmanship: it’s outrageous, and in part because of that it’s entertaining. That gets him attention — which he craves above all else — but just by itself being outrageous (which annoys the Libz) and entertaining is something his supporters love about him. And of course, the media can’t resist it either, which he knows perfectly well.
I agree it’s a bit of stretch to call it a strategy. He doesn’t DO strategy. He never has — he’s said so himself — and at this point I question whether he would even be capable of it
@The Thin Black Duke: as to the ACTUAL effects of limiting immigration, I don’t think they think about it at all. For them “immigration” and “illegal” are simply code-words to trigger racial hatred against non-Whites, especially (these days) Latinos.
As noted elsewhere, I would say the only ACTUAL proponents of ILLEGAL immigration are very likely Republican, specifically the business owners who benefit from their presence. I don’t think the average exurban MAGAt really puts the two together: they just like it that their racism is being publicly validated and exemplified.
Betty
@TBone: There has even been some increase in other kinds of jobs in the rural areas. Things are not nearly as dire as they were ten years ago, but Central PA does remain pretty deeply red with plenty of racists.
Hildebrand
@suzanne: Yep – we used to live 12 miles from the border, and for people in our area it just wasn’t a thing, certainly not about the folks coming across the river. When the coyotes would abandon the people as soon as they hit US soil, that was a problem – but that was a matter of helping the people abandoned and being pissed at the coyotes.
Now, the cartels making parts of Mexico less than awesome was the far bigger concern – made it hard for a lot of my students to go see extended family. But I don’t think that’s what the folks up north were concerned about.
The real annoyance to those who actually lived in the Rio Grande River valley were the politicians play-acting being ‘tough’ on immigration. They just got people up north riled up and that meant having to deal with vigilantes.
TBone
@MagdaInBlack: 😆
HeleninEire
@Falling Diphthong: Twitter Nixon said the same. Paraphrasing: “I know the difference between a rumor and a leak from the campaign, and this is the latter.”
Kyle Rayner
I personally think making distractions is a natural effect that has served him well all the past decade, and once upon a time was an effect he consciously cultivated, but the debate mouth noises he made were wholly without conscious strategy, even if the resulting distractions are as present as ever. I doubt he still has his finger very firmly on how to be influential and control the narrative anymore. I’m not crediting a rabid dog as a mastermind for the way he can get everyone to balk and run from him.
MagdaInBlack
@Kay: So this city is a success story that they’re stomping all over? That adds an interesting piece to the story.
TBone
@Betty: yes indeed! I only listed the three major employers that came to mind immediately but the whole area is springing back to flourishing. If only we could drag the attitudes along with us into the future as well as all that money…but make no mistake about the huge progress we are seeing!
Kay
ANY small city would have growing pains with 20k new residents over 6 years (Haitians started arriving in Springfield in 2018).
But the city would just need short term help to handle it – the increased tax revenue from the new workers will level up and they’ll be better off. That won’t fix the racism and xenophobia though.
One thing that’s interesting to me in Springfield that I haven’t seen in other places is how churches have really stepped up to defend the immigrants. This may be because all the news reports say Haitians there are “churchgoing” – I’m not sure what that means in terms of numbers. But churches defending seems to have helped. Maybe churches should step up more often.
bbleh
@lowtechcyclist: and hoo boy do they resent immigrants even MORE for that!
clay
@Betty Cracker: I seem to recall that Indian American voters, as a whole, are fairly mixed as to what political party they support. I appreciate Loomer’s plan on alienating as many potential allies as possible!
Kay
@MagdaInBlack:
It is a success. Different environment (obviously not so stark in terms of race) but the same thing has happened in Detroit. The Detroit mayor and city council have encouraged immigrants to locate in Detroit for the last ten years AND they had a ton of cheap housing to offer. Then manufacturing in the Detroit area boomed so they had cheap housing + jobs. It’s changed the city. They’re much, much better off with all the new residents.
Matt McIrvin
@Betty Cracker: Well, gee, let’s ask Usha Vance about that one.
Josie
@Hildebrand:
Every word you wrote is so true. I spent most of my life about 15 miles from the border, and the only thing we worried about was outsiders coming in and causing havoc at the border. That stupid wall devastated some rare and lovely habitat with a terrible effect on wildlife and accomplished absolutely nothing,
MagdaInBlack
@Kay: They can’t say enough bad things about Detroit either, I notice. These cities disprove their propaganda about immigrants, so they must attack them. As they did successful black towns and neighborhoods.
CliosFanboy
@MagdaInBlack:
as I saw somewhere online, Springfield is being gentrified by importing people from the poorest country in the Americas.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@lowtechcyclist:
The ethnic and cultural mix began in places like rurl KS 20 years ago, I saw it first hand driving there as Hispanic immigrants began moving in to “take” the shitty jobs (meat processing comes to mind) that the baked-in generations of local whites stopped doing.
They didn’t roll out the welcome mat per se and the places are still essentially Hair Furor country but many of those small towns over a swath of the region survive mainly because of immigrants.
I chuckle about Pennsyltucky as it was a possible landing spot for us in the mid-90s as we looked to leave DC. A good friend had a family farmette just outside Burnt Cabins, we did a ton of motorcycle camping there for around 5 years. Gorgeous country…except to the people. Instead we ended up in Central Misery which was similar to Pennsyltucky although not as stereotypical (as we eventually learned).
Jeffg166
Biden got 66% of the registered Democrats vote in 2020. He got 500,000 votes. If Harris can get a larger turn out she will win the state. There are now 783,302 registered Democrats in Philadelphia.
TBone
@Kay: our area gets such an influx of people every fall – college students. Of course that’s different from the subject at hand but the thing that is similar is that we (our economies) depend on them.
3Sice
@Betty:
The facial bloat when he and Lipthong were all handsie at mar-a-shaghoe was an ED overdose.
Kay
@MagdaInBlack:
It’s really a matter of attitude and perception. If DeWine (OH gov) were pro immigrant and pro growth he could use any of the number of Ohio subsidized, low interest debt instruments for cities and help Springfield over the growing pains. Hire teachers, etc. They say medical practices are flooded – that’s a private sector issue but we did student loan repayment to attract physicians to this small city and it worked.
Just stop being screeching, terrified ninnies, recognize the upside of growth, and welcome it. The problem really goes back to the nature of conservatism and conservatives. They’re brittle, inflexible people who always see change as bad and scary. Springfield was closing schools. Now they’re bitching about class sizes. That’s a good problem to have! It’s also FIXABLE, and relatively easily.
MagdaInBlack
@CliosFanboy: All the pieces are falling together for me now. Thank you for that piece.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@TBone:
Ah prisons, the employer of last resort for red, rurl ‘Murka.
Back in Misery, we joked for years that the state motto should have been “Build Prisons, Not Schools” given how many of the former went up around the state so as to give communities with a declining production base and population a reason to exist. Plus it tied into the state’s general, (R)-led War On Public Edumacation efforts.
sdhays
@Matt McIrvin: I feel like the last time we heard from Ms. Vance she was assuring us that her husband doesn’t use eyeliner.
Interesting how she has disappeared.
Cheryl from Maryland
Heather Cox Richardson has a good explainer on how Vance started the rumors re Springfield, OH, and how the point isn’t just to rouse Trump’s base but to defeat Sherrod Brown.
MagdaInBlack
@Kay: But these new folks won’t be white, Kay. There’s the attitude and perception.
CliosFanboy
Was the quilt drawing held?
TBone
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: 👍 the “pipeline” is real.
Heidi Mom
@TBone: And don’t forget the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania as a major employer, says this Commonwealth retiree living in Cumberland County, Pennsyltucky (by some measures the fastest-growing county in PA).
3Sice
Prison populations count for apportionment, but can’t vote. Like immigrants.
TBone
@Cheryl from Maryland: agreed! Posting for others:
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/september-13-2024
TBone
@3Sice: I had forgotten about that, good eye!
TBone
@Heidi Mom: 💙👍
Kay
@TBone:
Well, the Springfield immigrants are more productive to a city really, because they work and pay taxes. Also- their employers pay taxes. Colleges get special tax treatment that for profit enties don’t get.
Phylllis
@TBone: I mentioned this to my husband the other day. There had been a steady diet of dark, negative repub ads during Braves games that were basically ‘immigration, violence, Kamala dereliction of duty, they’re coming for you ooga booga’. Now ads for her are running, and they’re sunny, hopeful, etc. Very noticeable contrast.
Matt McIrvin
This all just makes it clearer that “we only hate ILLEGAL immigration” only applies if “illegal” is interpreted as a synonym for “black or brown”. Legal status clearly does not actually matter here when you’re yelling about the Great Replacement and claiming that Haitians are cannibals.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Baud: “Undecided” this year seems to mean “voted for Trump twice but trying to decide if he’s finally too nuts to vote for a third time.”
suzanne
@TBone:
Suburbs are counted as part of the metropolitan area (MSA) that economically supports them. So their growth is considered to be urbanization. The genuinely rural parts of the state are losing population quickly. There was just a story in the Pist-Gazette about it. The statistics are staggering.
Pittsburgh actually grew in population since 2020, for the first time in decades.
TBone
@Kay: yep. However, the economic benefits I refer to may help to outweigh (at least balance) the tax exemption.
Tax-exempt private and public universities and colleges do not pay income taxes; however, they do pay other forms of taxes, such as payroll taxes for their employees.
Tax-exempt private and public universities and colleges are also subject to unrelated business income tax (UBIT). Generally they must pay tax on income from an activity, trade, or business that is not substantially related to their educational tax-exempt purposes.
https://www.aau.edu/key-issues/unrelated-business-income-tax
Nukular Biskits
Good mornin’, y’all!
Sitting on back porch, drinking coffee (WTF is BAUD!?!??!!? Keep him away from this thread lest he say something funny and make me snort said coffee out my nose again!).
Watching the Great Hummingbird Wars and catching other birds (figuratively) via their songs using the Merlin app on my phone. So far, I have:
TBone
@Phylllis: 💙😍😊
Tony Jay
@TBone:
“Crevasse Buttlip? I know that name. Tell me, did you row for Yale?”
“No, sir. I was the burlesque dancer you and your butler pelted with meringues at your uncle’s engagement soirée.”
“Ah! Capital!”
TBone
@Matt McIrvin: exactly 🎯
TBone
@Tony Jay: 😆😆😆
Frankensteinbeck
@The Thin Black Duke:
His brain trust has been complaining publicly that he won’t stay on script and they want him to shut up about pets and stop the hard racism. This isn’t a strategy. It’s a mean, stupid old man screaming his white supremacist fantasies, because a black woman humiliated him and the only woman who will touch him anymore says those fantasies turn her on.
Phylllis
@Nukular Biskits: Hummingbirds are vicious little buggers, aren’t they? We have firecracker plants visible from our dining nook window and we’re treated to a Hummingbird brawl almost nightly.
suzanne
Here’s some stats on the loss of rural population in PA:
I would post the Post-Gazette link, but it’s paywalled.
For the first time, between 2010 and 2020, rural America saw a population decline. That’s in absolute numbers, not just a percentage loss. That trend has been happening in PA even faster than expected.
TBone
@Nukular Biskits: ain’t life grand?!?
Falling Diphthong
@Kyle Rayner: Once upon a time was an effect he consciously cultivated.
I think this is important to understanding what he’s doing now. When people start to lose their faculties, they are okay in familiar situations. They can respond with the familiar conversational beats.
Trump knows that you get up there and you hit the immigration rants and you yell about whatever was on Fox. If it had a calculated element 8 years ago, it’s now just reflex.
Denali5
My friend moved to Cranberry, PA about seven years ago; it has grown exponentially since then. It remains conservative politically. Butler is not too far up the road.
Here in Rochester, NY we had a new roof put on by workers from Ecuador. They did an excellent job and were here and trained legally.
Why do people love to hate?
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone😊😊😊
Nukular Biskits
And, since this is an open thread, here’s a Twitter thread that illustrates the outright jackassery of having a Trump-supporting Republican as your Secretary of State.
Here’s the setup: The MS SoS implies there have been “questions” about the order of candidates on the sample ballot. I ask him why he provided no specifics as to those questions. I get a smart-ass answer.
Nukular Biskits asks MS SoS a question about sample ballot “concerns”
Suzanne
@Denali5: Yeah, Cranberry and that whole exurb area in Butler County has exploded. OTOH, Westmoreland County is losing a ton of population. Every time I drive through there, it looks like a Bruce Springsteen song….. all these shitty, decaying buildings, people who look strung out. And Trump signs, of course!
Nukular Biskits
@TBone:
I have come to the conclusion that hummingbirds are Trump-supporting Republicans: They’ll fight anyone & everyone to keep anyone from getting anything.
geg6
@suzanne:
To me, the perfect story that illustrates how bad things are in Central PA is to look at State College, PA. It’s in the middle of nowhere but is thriving, despite the MAGA county government. Why is it thriving? Because of PSU’s presence, with all its foreigners and eggheads and elitists. Take Penn State out of the mix and the only thing they’d have going would be SCI Rockview, a notorious Supermax. The economy would be in tatters.
NeenerNeener
Hey, I just saw my first Trump/Vance lawn sign. That sucker is YUGE! About 2 1/2 times the size of the down ballot lawn signs around it. The Repubs must be really worried.
TBone
Not trying to argue with anyone about population trends. Indeed, it is an area in flux here in PA. This article also helps understand it:
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/pennsylvania/
Suzanne
@geg6: Exactly right. A major university, a major healthcare system (not a shitty community hospital), and/or a couple of employers who need college-educated employees….. that’s all a community needs to grow right now.
Geminid
@suzanne: West Virginia has led the way. I read that according to the 2020 Census, that was the only state with a smaller population now than in 1950. When John Kennedy ran in 1960, West Virginia brought him 8 Electoral votes. They had 6 Congressmen then but now they’re down to two.
A lot of West Virginians migrated to Virginia because it has gone in the other economic direction since 1950. They’re still coming.
rikyrah
Pam Keith, Esq. (@PamKeithFL) posted at 7:45 AM on Sat, Sep 14, 2024:
When #Project2025 says it’s going to “denationalize” citizens,
what it means is that it will strip citizenship from people who were born here & have lived here their whole lives.
That’s what the Nazis did to German Jews.
And the media says doodle squat about it.
(https://x.com/PamKeithFL/status/1834936514326782241?s=02)
TBone
@Nukular Biskits: good analogy!!!
BR
The whole thing about Springfield makes me think about the knockout punch that could be delivered on immigration against Trump — that Trump’s bad immigration ideas would also wreck our economy (setting aside that they’re wrong). It can be explained like this:
“Trump wants to deport tens of millions of people who are here trying to do a hard day’s work. Think about this: if you ask dairy farmers in the Midwest, they’ll tell you they haven’t had a US citizen apply for a job in years. What happens to the price of milk for you at the store if Trump gets rid of the whole daily industry’s workers? Say hello to $20 milk. What about eggs? Same thing. Say hello to $20 eggs. And we see the same thing across agriculture and in some low-end homebuilding jobs. How likely are contractors going to be able to fix your house or build new ones in your town without workers to do it? That means higher costs.”
Suzanne
@TBone: No one is saying that the state isn’t growing. The point is that all that suburban sprawl you’re seeing is counted as growth of Philly and Harrisburg and even Allentown MSAs, not as rural growth. MSA boundaries are usually much larger than the urban municipality boundary and it changes every year, because they’re trying to calculate how far the economic support of the urban area goes. Suburbs and exurbs are counted as part of the “urban cluster”.
Kyle Rayner
@Falling Diphthong: Ha! “Sir, this is my comfort racism. I need it on the stage with me.”
Nukular Biskits
@Phylllis:
Thank FSM they’re only a couple of inches tall!
Suzanne
@Geminid: Yes, absolutely. People leave for economic opportunity, and that’s been part of the American character forever. As our economy has become increasingly dominated by services, the logical consequence is people consolidating in urban areas.
It was estimated that, sometime in the late 2000s, for the first time in all of human history….. more people lived in cities than in rural areas. It’s a worldwide pattern.
Mike S. (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)
@Nukular Biskits: Yes! Remember birds are dinosaurs that survived the asteroid.
Geminid
@Suzanne: Harrisonburg, Virginia has a big hospital and James Madison University, and that place is jumping. It used to be a sleepy agricultural center with a teachers college. The city hasn’t drawn big employers but I think they’ll be coming.
Harrisonburg is also attracting well-off retirees. Interstate 81 runs right through the city so a lot of Yankees and such know it as a nice place with amenities and a decent climate.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for US?
Reading this thread about Pennsyltucky and Springfield OH…I lived in Springfield for four years in the late 1980s/early 1990s – went to college there (Wittenberg University). At that time it was the most Pennsyltucky city I’d ever lived in. It was in decline then (down to about 70k residents from a peak of 83k) and continued to depopulate over the three decades. It’s a bummer as I have a soft spot for the place but it was not in great shape then and went downhill further since. It had the bones of a once very prosperous little city…you could see it in some of the municipal buildings and the pretty spectacular concentrations of large Victorian era homes. There was a really old and very cool looking Oddfellows home building there.
Just to illustrate the Pennsyltuckyness…I spent a summer on campus there re-painting the dorms. The paint company we worked for was a mix of students and townies…the townies were all ex-cons, and the only “benefit” the company offered was they guaranteed enough hours during the spring through fall painting season that the employees could claim unemployment all winter long. No health insurance or anything, just being able to scam the unemployment system for a few months every year.
One of the guys on the paint crew was named, I kid you not, Bobby Coonrod, and one of the students on the paint crew with me was a local and his next door neighbor was a Springfield police officer. So he asked his neighbor if he knew Bobby and the guy was like “Oh yeah, Springfield PD and the Coonrod boys go way back.” Cue the dueling banjos. Needless to say their views on race were not particularly enlightened and I could see how there would be a lot of Trump supporters there.
Little known fact is that John Legend grew up in Springfield, OH.
Like I said up top it’s sad to see these formerly prosperous cities decline. A city that size can be nice and offer a lot…I live in the DC area and nearby Frederick, MD is an example. You can see in the architecture that Springfield used to be like that but then fell on hard times. It’s a bummer and driven by economic forces beyond the control of the locals. It seems like this immigrant community was helping it bounce back which hopefully can continue. It’s the kind of thing that someone who claims to represent these places would celebrate but for the racial dynamic. Trump and Vance are literally harming a city full of the kind of people that form their core base, just to nurse racial grievances for temporary electoral gain. Hopefully it backfires on them big time. We shall see.
Suzanne
@BR: I will also note that, when there’s a lot of work, contractors won’t go work in rural areas unless they are paid a huge premium. I had a couple of rural clients when I worked in AZ and they were always horrified that no one wanted to bid on their projects.
trnc
Awwww, he’s got a spirit animal. That’s so … (checks notes), uh, never mind, that’s not cute at all.
TBone
@rikyrah: Pete B. is happy that you’re putting the focus back where it belongs. It’s so easy (and fun) to laugh about all the utter shit that the flaming clowns throw out like explosive bags of poo. That mockery and laughter is productive for keeping our batteries charged, but as Pete says, we need to remember that the fight is deadly serious.
I prefer to laugh but I do so because it is rejuvenating during being constantly pelted with this absolute shitstorm of fascism.
3Sice
John Mellencamp’s “small town” is Seymour Indiana, which is centered on a cluster of egg farms worked by Guatemalans.
The politics of rolling a local constituency can be a bit nuanced over such matters, which explains the Springfiled mayor telling the clanghorns to STFU.
Nukular Biskits
@Mike S. (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!):
What if all the dinosaurs had been like hummingbirds?
They would have … well, nevermind. They would have fought to the death anyway 65 million years ago. LOL.
JML
You have to wonder if the GOP plan is to not worry about the presidential and focus on making sure they win back the Senate, since they know they can fuck up anything the scary black/indian woman wants to do as president from there just fine. No democratic nominees get through for basically anything, no legislation gets passed, government shutdowns and tantrums unless they get everything they want on taxes and budget…
damn the senate sucks.
Gvg
@MagdaInBlack: Let’s ask the native Americans about insidious invaders replacing real Americans, why don’t we?
As far as I know I don’t have any native ancestry. I’ve got Irish from the famine, Dutch, French Huguenot lost a religious civil war, English from the Mayflower, and probably more. Both early immigrants and more recent ones. The family has also adopted at least 7 times between both sides of my family. Started with my grandmother, and is still happening.I have cousins from Vietnam.So, personally I am not threatened by immigration.
When I went to school it was rah rah USA we beat the Natzi’s and we are going to beat the commies one of the things we celebrated about how great the USA was, was that we were a nation of immigrants, the melting pot of the worlds poor, tired hungry, that given a chance, became a great power, mostly middle class and some became wealthy. There were songs and movies and people loved them. The gap between the rich and poor wasn’t so big the smaller fish didn’t grovel so much, and the big powerful guys were careful not to appear to be such assholes in public. Thing have changed for the worse.
I also look at some European countries or Japan that have allowed some immigration but not fully integrated some ethnic groups, not allowing them to progress to full citizenship after even more than a generation and having unrest or even criminal activity because of it…and I consider them stupid. I don’t want us to make that mistake. It’s not safe to have 2 classes, citizens and noncitizens with no way to become citizens in a reasonable time. Like saying, stick a knife in me, I am stupid (and evil).
I liked the fun of celebrating America that builds people up better than this snarling dog of anti immigration. It had better songs. I’d like some of the old movie channels to start replaying certain movies…like the Jazz Singer, and others. Possibly some WWII and after to remind people. Maybe some pre WWII. Also what religious freedom really meant, government not telling you which detail of Christian protocol you had to follow arbitrarily. Religion not equaling government.
rikyrah
Sgt Joker (@TheSGTJoker) posted at 8:50 AM on Sat, Sep 14, 2024:
Trump’s Project 2025 explained hilariously, terrifyingly, and perfectly.
Trump’s Project 2025 will end America as we know it and turn it into the White Christian Nationalist version of Afghanistan.
https://t.co/ylHBIjZW1H
(https://x.com/TheSGTJoker/status/1834952810753822814?s=02)
Frankensteinbeck
@JML:
I think they have been open and public, even loud about their plan. Their plan is “Would he just shut his fucking mouth? We had this in the bag!”
EDIT – I mean, their current tactical goal is “Maybe if we can pry him off the bimbo he’ll be manageable again?”
TBone
@Gvg: TCM is a lifesaver for me in that regard.
They are truly doing their part in educating about the historic fight against fascism in all of its forms. Of course I realize I’m being entertained, but one can learn so much while being enveloped in that “imaginary” world that is born of fact.
BR
@Suzanne:
Yeah, totally true. Someone I follow on Mastodon lives in rural New Mexico and she can’t get a competent contractor and when she does get a quote it’s for 3x what it’d cost for me to get the same thing done.
Princess
Wait — I just realized I’ve been to Springfield OH! I gave a talk at the university around 2018 or so. Nice place, nice people but it definitely needed an influx of some energy; something new.
Suzanne
This is a good piece about the terrifying Catholic conservatism ( aka “integralism”) JD Vance and his team of psychos want to bring down on us all. If you don’t know about Vermeule, Deneen, Ahmari, and of course, the lunatic Dreher….. you should. They’re terrifying.
frosty
@suzanne: My part of Pennsyltucky isn’t depopulating. But it’s basically North Maryland.
gene108
@suzanne:
Lots of good hiking and camping spots in Central and Northern Pennsylvania, if that’s something that interests people.
Nice state parks in those areas, as well.
Gvg
@Suzanne: People who live there don’t think like that. They think my place is growing or my place is dying. It’s the place. Calling it urban now instead of rural is missing her point.
oldgold
I live in a city that 20 or so years ago experienced a tremendous influx of immigrants.
For the most part, even in the beginning it went pretty well, but there were some problems. Not with crime and/or violence, but with the mixing of cultural norms (language, yard care, driving, attire, etc). And, of course, we had too many bigots that made more of these things than was warranted.
Now, my city is realizing the benefits of the arrival of the immigrants. For instance, unlike similarly situated cities in the area, rather than closing schools, we are building them. Similarly, our county hospital is not closing or shrinking, it is growing and becoming a regional center. Last year our sister city’s hospital had 65 births, we had 360.
These new folks are entrepenurial. Our formerly tired town now has many new small and vibrant shops and restaurants.
Almost Retired
@TBone: Are you anywhere near Susquehanna University? I have a step-relative who is a professor there. The area sounds like an itty bitty blue dot in the Red Sea.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
Suzanne
@Gvg: It makes all the sense in the world, and it’s how the data has been classified forever. An urban area is an interdependent economic unit. If a MSA grows so that a town that used to be separate is now part of the part of the MSA….. that’s essentially how urbanization has happened for millennia.
ETA: what it essentially reflects is that now the town is not self-supporting. It’s essentially worker housing and support services for the larger MSA.
O. Felix Culpa
JD Vance is more dangerous than TFG at this point. Where Pence may have been Dunning-Kruger personified, Vance is Banality of Evil. He is cunning and already getting the Dotard to jump on command.
NeenerNeener
@Suzanne: And they’re using Evangelicals, who claim to be the only “Christians”, to do it. God has a weird sense of humor.
BC in Illinois
Interesting to see Kathleen Parker give an ill-humored endorsement of Kamala Harris – – “Harris inspires great energy and enthusiasm. But can voters trust her to be a moderate? – – in today’s Washington Post. Two excerpts:
I will let you mull over the contention that Trump had no role in that process. She at least recognized Trump’s two-faced claims.
Her conclusion, however is right on target:
She hasn’t gone full Jen “We aren’t going back” Rubin, but when you’ve lost Kathleen Parker . . .
BR
What frustrates me is that we’re all talking about what Trump wants us to talk about right now. Whether it’s a plan on his part or just his feral instinct that caused this, I don’t care. Immigration is his topic.
NeenerNeener
@O. Felix Culpa: Bill Maher supposedly said last night that Trump is going to dump Vance for RFK Jr. I think it’s too late for that, but it would be in Trump’s best interests to do it because Vance is going to 25th Amendment his flabby @$$ and be President before the first year is out.
gene108
@clay:
Asians, as a whole, since I have not seen data on Indian Americans versus say Chinese Americans voting preferences, lean between 60% to 70% in favor of Democrats over the last few cycles.
When Republicans make “overwhelming” gains with minority voters, they increase their share of that demographic’s vote total from 33% to 40% or somewhere in that range.
In terms of the percentage of minority vote from ‘x’ group benchmarked against the Democrats relative votes from blacks, the level of minority support does not seem as solid, but it’s still a clear majority of non-white voters prefer Democrats.
schrodingers_cat
@gene108: Indian Americans vote overwhelmingly for Democrats over 70% in the last 4 presidential elections.
AWOL
@The Thin Black Duke: Hate to say it, but you’re (sui generis) replaceable with someone more subservient. Their rhetoric is genocidal, has been for years, and that’s next in their playbook. It’s Turner Diaries all the way down unless they’re crushed like the roaches they are. I’m unsure how much longer we can Hans Brinker this shit.
O. Felix Culpa
@schrodingers_cat: Glad to see you! Hope you’re doing ok. Very sad about your mom.
trnc
@Falling Diphthong:
Sorry, have to disagree. He LOVES being hated by whomever his perceived enemies are. The multiple abortion positions are strictly to get elected. He wants to fool undecided voters who want to be fooled, while his base knows what the wink means.
Anoniminous
@Betty Cracker:
“When you gaze long into the Third World Crevasse, the Third World Crevasse gazes also into you.” — Fred Nietzsche
Matt McIrvin
@clay: As schrodinger’s cat often tells us, Indian-Americans lean very Democratic, consistently something on the rough order of 75-25 Democratic-voting. But the right-wing ones are very visible.
Eunicecycle
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for US?: I think we’ve “talked” about this before-I also went to Wittenberg about 15 years before you did. Springfield was declining even then but I think IH was still there.
Anoniminous
@suzanne:
All rural parts of the US are depopulating with some areas being hit extra hard. For example most of the short grass prairie is back to Frontier level of people.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: Yep. The Haitian attack serves the GOP’s presidential and Senatorial goals, probably more so the latter, and probably Trump doesn’t even realize it.
Chief Oshkosh
@Shalimar:
I wonder what the calculus would be if that happened. Would Biden finally bring out the hammer on some of our homegrown terrorists? Probably not, but sure seems like some real protection needs to be provided to those communities.
Another Scott
@NeenerNeener:
Thought experiments can be fun. Wikipedia:
Dueling 4-day-period letters!! I’m Prezinet! No, I’m Presinet!!
It’s hard to imagine Democrats supplying enough votes for 2/3 of either house to let JV and Thiel take over.
I can imagine TCFFG firing the disloyal cabinet members on hearing rumors of a letter being drafted, also too.
As usual, if it comes to that turn of events, rules and norms won’t save us. There’s no One Weird Trick.
We need to run up the score! Forward!!
Cheers,
Scott.
gene108
@rikyrah:
I’m glad someone noticed this.
There are two angles to Republicans anti-immigration stance.
The first is immigration is bad, whether legal or otherwise and must be stopped.
The second is to create different levels of citizenship based on who your parents are and where they come from.
Stephen Miller and his goal to end birthright citizenship is part of this. The 14th amendment doesn’t explicitly say people born in U.S. soil are citizens. The issue was debated in the 19th century for Asians and Native Americans. Native Americans were denied birthright citizenship. Asians won the right to birthright citizenship in an 1898 SCOTUS case. Congress changed the law to grant birthright citizenship to Native American citizenship in 1924.
The same racist thinking went into who could become a naturalized U.S. citizen, where immigrants from Asia were denied this right until either the late 1930’s or 1940’s.
Republicans want to bring these discriminatory racist citizenship rules back. Despite the feeling things like birthright citizenship are set in stone, its adoption is based on the courts interpretation of the 14th amendment.
Republican federal judges are looking for new ways to re-interpret the Constitution to suit the current political agenda of Republicans. It’s only a matter of time, in my opinion, that Miller and his ilk will get a case before a favorable judge that draws settled law into question.
JPL
@rikyrah: Wow! Is there anyway to send it along without twitter
I checked threads but he doesn’t have an account
Kay
Interesting Reddit thread by and for people in Springfield fom 3 months ago:
The “meth” reference is real. Springfield is in the “meth belt” in Ohio – huge drug problems.
Citizen Alan
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Two years ago, I very nearly got a federal clerkship in harrisburg. I was down to the final two. The other clerk they had at the time advised me to live in philadelphia if I got the job and just take the train in every day if I got the job.
Matt McIrvin
@gene108:
Yes it does. Making people think it doesn’t is part of this whole campaign.
It says: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
That’s pretty clear, but where they try to slip in some kind of doubt is “subject to the jurisdiction thereof”. What it means in practice is that you’re not an American citizen if you’re born here with diplomatic immunity (which families of diplomats generally have), and that’s it. There have been some old legal arguments theoretically extending that to children born to invaders in territory they control, where the US and state government can’t enforce the law–and xenophobes try to portray various classes of immigrants as “invaders” and invoke that path.
But the US can clearly enforce the law on them–that’s what those same people keep saying they want to do!
Citizen Alan
@BR: to which the people at the heritage foundation simply roll their eyes and say, “Of course, that’s not going to happen! Prices will actually go down once we eliminate labor costs by reinstituting slavery!”
Honus
@Phylllis: saw the same apocalyptic anti-Biden and then Harris ads during the Pirates’ games. As someone said, it was like a script from a new Mad Max movie. The Harris ads that now air are a nice contrast.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Eunicecycle: It sounds like IH is still there in some much diminished form. It was cheap, I’ll give it that. I rented a 4 BR with three other guys. Was the ground floor of a large house with a big wrap around porch. $640 a month for the four of us so we were each paying $160 a month in rent.
I had a great time there and the city and greater area had it’s charms for college kids who could largely make their own fun. Yellow Springs was a fun easy semi-regular day trip. But it definitely had a lot of run down housing stock and hardly any upscale attractions.
Chief Oshkosh
@gene108: Here’s a story from a former friend of JV. It’s even worse than you describe:
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/sofia-nelson-jd-vance-trump-maga-post-liberal-right-rcna171095
Matt McIrvin
@Gvg: I’ve seen some right-wingers try to kill the “nation of immigrants” idea by drawing a distinction between “colonists” and “immigrants”–being descended from the first one is good, because they were the mighty warriors who conquered the land and sort of made themselves the new indigenous, but being descended from the second is bad. It’s just straight up white supremacism narrowed to some kind of Anglo supremacism.
Only they’re terrified of someone doing the colonization thing to us.
Jeffro
@Geminid: It’s a cool town! Virginia has a number of well-developed, fun college towns that imho helped turn the state blue.
Jeffro
@BC in Illinois: I have to assume Parker is a closet Swiftie LOL
Jeffro
@Chief Oshkosh:
I think it’s more likely than not that, given trump’s rapid mental descent (even for him) and his increasing encouragement of violence (even for him), he’ll call for violence overtly enough that he could get arrested.
Normies and our snooze media need to understand: he is all in. He is going to jail if he doesn’t become president and he knows it. Perhaps equally important: his ego can’t take another loss.
Kayla Rudbek
@Matt McIrvin: yes, CBP isn’t going after the illegal Irish immigrants in Chicago and on the East Coast, and I’m sure there are some.
artem1s
@bbleh:
Entertaining. There it is. All due respect to Mayor Pete but he’s part of the problem here. He’s helping the MSM to keep ignoring their problem. This addiction to Entertainment. He’s not reminding them that TCF is distracting, he’s allowing them to continue the farce that TCF is a very stable genius. That he’s got more tricks up his sleeve and will pivot to a real POTUS any day now. That it’s better to have a ‘real businessman’ in control of the country and that this generation of billionaire nepo babies is going to be genetically predisposed to being successful. The the only thing they are successful at is being Entertaining to a bored electorate who crave their next fix.I thought it was bad for the country when the Bushes made politics a sport. The the only thing that mattered to operatives like Rove was destroying the competition and creating a power imbalance that meant no one could challenge the winner in the next election cycle.But this. Seeking Entertainment at all cost is far worse. We have entire sectors of the economy devoted to it now and dismantling it will be (and has been) met with violent resistance. Because violence is more Entertaining than a boring, efficient democracy and government and competent, experienced, and SANE public servants. Branding is all that matters now and the more violent and extreme your brand, the more attention you’ll get.Mayer Pete’s Kennedy good looks are now passe´. Good hair and large vocabulary are not going to cut it with a MSM who are addicted to politicians like TCF and Vance. Pete can explain all day long what TCF is up to, but the real problem is he’ll suck all the O2 out of the air no matter what he does as long as he’s not boring.
CliosFanBoy
@schrodingers_cat:
Is there a particular subgroup that votes republican? Other than being RW jerkwads I mean :)
Matt McIrvin
@Jeffro:
I think Trump is, right now, functionally immune to the law on this point. Nobody’s going to dare.
Geminid
@Jeffro: Hsve you been to the Green Valley Book Fair? It’s located in Mount Crawford, 10 miles south of Harrisonburg. I remember when it was just a barn some farm family sold used books out of. Now the oiok Fair is a couple of climate-controlled metal buildings full of very discounted new books of all kinds.
The Edith Carrier Arboretum at JMU is worth a visit too.
RevRick
@suzanne: The only growing part of PA is the southeastern tier.
Elizabelle
@artem1s: Good comment.
And the fuckers have a First Amendment, to help journalists do their fucking jobs.
I wince when I hear journalists ask if Harris will run away from Biden’s economic record. As if it’s a problem.
I don’t think our country would be as “ripe” for fascist performance artists if people had not been sold cynicism and cheap conventional wisdom.
Of course, this is happening all over the world, so ….
Lyrebird
@Elizabelle:
I’m unsurprised when it’s Fox News but enraged otherwise. They are trying SO HARD – you notice there’s still a constant mention of the Prez having had “a disastrous debate” yadda yadda and so so few official press outlets using anything like the same standards on the Trumpster fire. I’m abs not wanting to go back, I am Team Kamala all the way!!! but these little subtle distortions and lies add up to millions in free contributed campaigning for the GOP, and the stakes are pretty dam high in this election. I shouldn’t, maybe, but I hate them for it, these volunteer spin masters pretending to do journalism.
Bill Arnold
@NeenerNeener:
Let’s work towards a future where that is not possible.
But yeah, a vote for Trump is a vote for JD Vance, fascist racist chameleon.
Bill Arnold
@Another Scott:
There is another relevant section in the 25 amendment.
Just saying, that women are not the only ones who would be wise to cover their drinks with JD Vance is around.
Bill Arnold
@Kayla Rudbek:
They do, sometimes, or did. Not sure about Irish (the Bronx has a lot, but I’ve never lived there), but in a northern NY suburban county, there were (20+ years ago) a few well publicized raids on Polish illegal immigrant laborers. (Mostly worked in construction, IIRC.) As in (white) people running through the woods to try to escape immigration officers.
BCHS Class of 1980
Yay, I made the Top 10,000 Blog! The SACarrow tweet is mine; way long ago when I’d comment here, I actually cared about anonymity but now I’m old.