BREAKING: Congressional leaders reach a deal to avert a shutdown and fund the government through Dec. 20. https://t.co/aH2Ou44KFM
— The Associated Press (@AP) September 22, 2024
Assuming, of course, the Repub Loose Cannon Caucus(es) don’t decide to shoot themselves in the groin, again… Per the Associated Press, “Spending deal averts a possible federal shutdown and funds the government into December”:
Congressional leaders announced an agreement Sunday on a short-term spending bill that will fund federal agencies for about three months, averting a possible partial government shutdown when the new budget year begins Oct. 1 and pushing final decisions until after the November election.
Temporary spending bills generally fund agencies at current levels, but an additional $231 million was included to bolster the Secret Service after the two assassination attempts against Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump, and additional money was added to aid with the presidential transition, among other things.
Lawmakers have struggled to get to this point as the current budget year winds to a close at month’s end. At the urging of the most conservative members of his conference, House Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., had linked temporary funding with a mandate that would have compelled states to require proof of citizenship when people register to vote.
But Johnson abandoned that approach to reach an agreement, even as Trump insisted there should not be a stop-gap measure without the voting requirement.
Bipartisan negotiations began in earnest shortly after that, with leadership agreeing to extend funding into mid-December. That gives the current Congress the ability to fashion a full-year spending bill after the Nov. 5 election, rather than push that responsibility to the next Congress and president…
House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries said Democrats would evaluate the bill in its entirety before this week’s vote, but with the agreement, “Congress is now on a bipartisan path to avoid a government shutdown that would hurt everyday Americans.” …
Johnson’s earlier effort had no chance in the Democratic-controlled Senate and was opposed by the White House, but it did give the speaker a chance to show Trump and conservatives within his conference that he fought for their request.
The final result — government funding effectively on autopilot — was what many had predicted. With the election just weeks away, few lawmakers in either party had any appetite for the brinksmanship that often leads to a shutdown.
Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said the same agreement could have been reached two weeks ago, but “Speaker Johnson chose to follow the MAGA way and wasted precious time.”…
The weakest Speaker of all time. And that's saying something post Kevin McCarthy. https://t.co/MKLehqnJCd
— Keith Murphy (@murphdogg29) September 22, 2024
======
Previously...
House Republicans are expected to derail their own plan to avert a government shutdown, leaving Congress without a plan two weeks before the deadline. https://t.co/kqI68sPDvH
— NBC News (@NBCNews) September 18, 2024
BREAKING: In a stunning announcement, Mike Johnson admits that Republicans may attempt to shut down the government ahead of November’s election. Retweet to make sure all Americans see this and know Republicans are responsible for any upcoming shutdown.pic.twitter.com/4KaQsVyRPV
— Kamala’s Wins (@harris_wins) September 18, 2024
Johnson: We ran the right play..
Hannity: You keep saying it's the right play and you can’t get every Republican to vote for it. That's your own party. pic.twitter.com/jsKlZnrfU3
— Acyn (@Acyn) September 19, 2024
The revealed preference of Republicans is they they don't actually want to govern the country, which is why you should respect their wishes and not vote for them. https://t.co/KuuqRGzbnt
— Nathan Goldwag ???? ?? (@GoldwagNathan) September 17, 2024
So Mike Johnson ran to Daddy for protection in April and introduced his silly bill to keep illegal voting illegal. Now it could produce a totally avoidable government shutdown. https://t.co/JICSU1fi5g
— Ed Kilgore (@ed_kilgore) September 11, 2024
MCCONNELL: "The one thing you cannot have is a government shutdown. It would be politically beyond stupid for us to do that right before the election, because certainly we'd get the blame." pic.twitter.com/EUH0tnG1fb
— JM Rieger (@RiegerReport) September 17, 2024
ANGRY GOP DADDY DOES NOT CARE ABOUT HIS SUFFERING CHILDREN…
BREAKING: In a stunning post, Donald Trump is calling on Congressional Republicans to shut down the Government. Retweet to make sure all Americans see this and know it’s Trump’s fault if a government shutdown occurs. pic.twitter.com/sanWffaEmW
— Kamala’s Wins (@harris_wins) September 18, 2024
War for Ukraine Day 942: The Butcher’s Bill in Kharkiv & Zaporizhzhia Under the Glide Bomb
David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch
I’m tired of so much winning
Baud
I’m sure Trump will accept this loss in his usual stoic manner.
BR
You all might have seen that Trump’s talking about losing. That’s both rare and by the Josh Marshall theory of dominance politics a bad move because it exposes the possibility of weakness.
Seems like folks (not Harris/Walz, but maybe Shapiro or Whitmer, and definitely everyone else) should talk it up — “Donald Trump is saying he won’t run again if he loses in November. I don’t buy it — I bet he’ll be puttering around at age 83 trying to run for a fourth time.”
Basically we should all assume the idea of a Trump loss and make the fight about what he’ll do next — maybe it’s prison, maybe it’s another run, a crypto scam, fleeing to Russia, etc. But all about the question “what will Donald Trump do when he loses?”
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-says-he-will-not-run-again-if-he-loses-november-that-will-be-it-2024-09-22/
Baud
@BR: He did that in 2020 and, I think, 2016. I don’t mind stoking people’s confidence, but I don’t know if it means much, any more than Dem fundraising emails that talk about losing mean anything.
SpaceUnit
What makes us think the GOP will pass a spending bill after the election?
SatanicPanic
Trump saying Republicans should “be smart” is funny coming from our dumbest president ever.
John Revolta
Dec. 20th?
So, the next Congress gets to come back after just being sworn in and immediately try and pass a budget ? WTF?
Are they assuming the GOP is gonna lose the House and the Dems get to face a budget crisis right off the bat?
Baud
@SpaceUnit: Lots of things happen during the lame duck when no one is paying attention.
Matt McIrvin
@John Revolta: The new Congress gets seated on January 3. So I guess it’d still be the old Congress but they’d know how the election went.
K-Mo
(Hal Holbrook voice)
The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.
Adam L Silverman
The SAVE Act is actually about removing US citizen women from the voting rolls and preventing them from voting as soon as possible. From The New Republic‘s reporting on this:
This was to important to leave out, but now that I’ve put in a comment here, I’m back to my own post, where I’ll be staying.
Geminid
@John Revolta: This Congress holding its “Lame Duck” session on December 20. Lots of stuff gets punted to lame duck sessions, so this is not unusual or especially problematic.
The Lame Duck session after the 2020 election ran into January, and the National Defense Authorization Act was passed over Trump’s veto just two days before the outgoing Congress ended and the new Congress commenced.
John Revolta
Matt McIrvin, Geminid: Right, I forgot about the lame-duck session before the recess…… I still suspect skullduggery though. The Repubs can negotiate a lot differently once they know how the election has turned out……….
MattF
I think TFG saying he won’t run again if he loses was meant as a threat. A lot of Republicans going ‘Phew’ might have been a surprise for him.
BR
@Baud:
I think it’s worthwhile because one of the ways that new voters get demoralized is through the fear of the indomitable authoritarian — the idea that their votes will not count, that Trump will succeed in a coup, etc. Instead the discussion of him losing and how he’d slink away is motivating to those who don’t like him and also not scary in a bad way.
BR
@Adam L Silverman:
Yeah, it’s been good to see that there’s been a lot of discussion about it lately.
karen marie
@John Revolta: Hahaha – joke’s on you. New House members are sworn in January 3, 2025. So the old House has to pass another CR to cover the gap until the new House begins.
scav
Wonder if there are any stats about conservative wives being more likely to take their husband’s names than liberal ones keeping theirs for their infamous “careers”. Certainly should wipe out more of those older, likely wed wimminz than the younger living in sinz ones. And the childless cat ladies are largely unaffected!
Somebody may not have thought all of this through, deeper than a bumper sticker analysis that is to say.
dmsilev
This was always the sensible outcome, which of course means that it was never going to be anything but a last resort for the Republican caucus. Assuming it passes, it’s good news.
Scout211
@Adam L Silverman: When I read about that I was actually shocked. For some reason, I thought all states looked at changing your name when you marry the same way California does, which is:
I thought it was no big deal, but the SAVE act is a very big (bad) deal.
delphinium
Are ya sure Mitch? The MSM may have still found a way to ‘bothsides’ it.
piratedan
@Adam L Silverman: ty AS, helluva hail mary for the GOP to not only rip bodily autonomy away via Dobbs but now the actual right to vote at the same time.
Just fucking incredible.
John Revolta
@karen marie: They’ve got it covered though until they go out for the holiday………….. why couldn’t they just refuse to negotiate a new bill for next year and leave the whole mess in the new Congress’ lap? (Assuming the Dems win the election I mean)
TS
@David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch:
They always give up – before or after a shutdown – funny how folks now realise it is the GOP causing all this dramatic nonsense
moonbat
I think the Repubs (and maybe even Trump) are slowly coming to realize that this election is their last gasp. The nation’s demographics have moved away from them and their double down on the racism and misogyny has not produced the results they were hoping for. And now with Dobbs they have managed to piss a whole lotta women off across the board.
If they cannot win here it’s out to the wilderness you until you figure out how to govern like grown-ups. And with Johnson as their best and brightest that could take a LONG time.
Good!
ETA: Nice touch trying to make this stupid disenfranchise all married women law sound like Biden’s SAVE program. They can’t even come up with a lame acronym that makes sense.
dmsilev
Via the Post,
So sad. Wonder how many GOP Reps will protest-vote no.
Eolirin
@moonbat: We gotta win first.
Geminid
@karen marie: It seems more likely (to me) that Congress will pass a longer-term spending bill during the lame duck session. That’s what they did in December of 2020, with the “Omnibus Bill.” But the dynamics of this post-election session are yet to be determined.
moonbat
@Eolirin: No doubt. I’m writing postcards to swing states everyday. I’m just suggesting that all this twisting and flailing is an indication that THEIR internal polling is not looking so good for them.
ssdd
@Adam L Silverman: good catch. But I wonder how much this would end up as an own goal. Coming up on my 35th (coral gift already bought!) and Mrs. ssdd still hasn’t bothered to change her name. Her last name is better anyhow, would swap out mine if it mattered.
Ken
I think I’ll try screwing up badly at work tomorrow, and see if I get a raise.
Soprano2
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks for the comment. I can’t imagine that would stand because it’s blatantly unconstitutional, but I’m not at all surprised they’d try it.
Ken
Quiet dignity and grace.
Another Scott
@dmsilev: +1
A 3 month CR is not good, but a 6 month CR (Johnson’s failed proposal) is a very bad idea.
I don’t know if they’ll actually be able to pass a budget by December 20, but that seems to be the plan – once everyone knows the election results.
Cheers,
Scott.
Geminid
@dmsilev: My guess is half or more of Johnson’s caucus will vote against this bill. The votes will likely track voting on the Debt Ceiling compromise, and on last year’s budget bills;. That would be in both the House and the Senate.
Gvg
@moonbat: if a woman’s name is not legally changed when she married, can she just go down to the DMV and get a new license under her legal maiden name with the birth certificate, and vote that way? Seems like it would be a law that makes women just revert to the original name very fast.
TS
@Soprano2:
You forget who is on the SCOTUS. Nothing trump wants is unconstitutional
Gvg
@Soprano2: I think it’s unconstitutional too, but I also have learned that that can mean time wasted while it goes to courts unless at least one state refuses on those grounds? It probably wouldn’t get sorted fast enough, not to mention who trusts this court?
I wonder how Barret would vote on that? She didn’t agree with the men on something else recently.
TS
@Gvg:
I’m sure the GOP would have a way around that and what if she doesn’t have a driving license? Intended consequences is everything the republicans do against women – and still some vote for them – it defies logic and sanity.
Rusty
If Trump loses i bet he immediately files to run for 2024. It’s not about actually running, it will be about maintaining acfess to the campaign cash he has been using to paybhis lawyers for all his trials. The legal fees are extraordinary given is constant delays and appeals. He can’t fund them on his own, so he will “run” until the cases are done or he is in jail.
jonas
It’s still kind of funny to watch Mitch McConnell pretend like he’s in a normal political party rather than a bugfuck insane cult that answers to the bizarre whims of a blubbering, orange-faced toddler with oppositional defiance disorder.
wjca
There is the detail that “beyond stupid” is the primary description of the House Republicans. You do realize that, don’t you Mitch?
Sure Lurkalot
I can’t even imagine what shit for brains ol’ Shit For Brains will have in 4 years.
John Revolta
@TS: Well, for the next 44 days, anyway. If Trumpf loses bad enough that even they don’t want to get involved, then he’s finally gonna find out what the underside of that bus where all his cronies end up looks like.
jonas
@Adam L Silverman: For the past 20-30 years, the vast majority — by no means all, of course — of women who change their name when they marry have tended to be those from more conservative/traditional backgrounds who view taking their husband’s name as “the normal thing to do.” This would end up disproportionately disenfranchising Republican women by a huge margin, I would think.
hueyplong
@Rusty: There is an alternate theory in which Trump has effectively stolen all the campaign funds by the time the vote is certified, eliminating the need to file as a candidate for ’28.
HumboldtBlue
danielx
@SatanicPanic:
Considering that Dubya is his closest competitor for the title, quite an accomplishment.
dc
@jonas: I think the vast majority of women change their last name upon marriage. They might do the hyphen thing, rarely do their husbands do the same, but that is a different name from their birth certificate. The default action for women is to change their name, regardless of their political beliefs. Unfortunately, because it makes no sense in a supposedly not patriarchal society.
ETA: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/07/about-eight-in-ten-women-in-opposite-sex-marriages-say-they-took-their-husbands-last-name/
Chet Murthy
@HumboldtBlue: OK, haha, paywalled, but that subtitle “Leadership Without Hegemony” is HILARIOUS! I mean, what is hegemony, except “leadership” in the military, economic, and political realms ? And hell, as we were reminded over and over during the noughties, hegemony works best when it doesn’t involve using hard power: soft power is better b/c if you use hard power and you fail, you’ve just stabbed yourself in the groin and it’ll take forever to regain the influence you had. And I remember reading in Tony Judt’s _Postwar_ of how the US used its economic might to get its allies (some pretty recent) onside, and keep them there. It wasn’t our tanks that kept ’em onside, it was our money and our trade networks.
I think it’s the reassertion of American hegemony, tout court.
Betty
@Baud: One of Trump’s buddies named Root who interviewed him today described Johnson in some very unflattering, one could say nasty, ways this evening.
Jackie
@TS:
Not anymore, if the SAVE Act was actually passed at some point. Women who couldn’t legally connect birth name to married name or names (think multiple marriages) would not be voting for dog catcher – much less president.
ETA I wonder how Mrs. Clarence Thomas and Mrs. Samuel Alito feel about that?
Memory Pallas
@Scout211: New York State is similar. Though I believe it works only for your last name and If you want to change your middle name, you must go to court.
Chet Murthy
@Jackie: I’m cynical enough to think that in Red jurisdictions, the election officials would be willing to stretch a point and allow married women to vote with only proof of their married name, etc. I mean, they’d obviously be white and all, surely there’s no harm, etc, etc, etc.
Ramona
@jonas: funny in a horribly sad way…
Sad that these goons are still in government
cain
@dc:
What will happen is the liberal women will revert back and the younger people will no longer change their last name to their husbands name.
The conservative women will simply not vote..they aren’t going to change their last name.
End result ? Less votes for the GOP. They are stupid fucks. They will destroy the culture of taking the husbands family name. That’s fine with me.
Imagine the chagrin of these Christians when they see that happening.
John Revolta
@HumboldtBlue: Remember when Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize for not being GWB?
I think Biden is due, is all I’m sayin
karen marie
@John Revolta: Because they want every opportunity to cause mayhem.
karen marie
@Geminid: Democrats, I believe, had control of the House at that time. These motherfucking Republicans cannot be relied on to do anything constructive.
Weftage
@Jackie:
They’ll be happy to nobly sacrifice for the greater good. Remember that during the suffrage movements of the 1900s, many Respectable women shared mens’ view that females should not vote. The Respectables were proud of not being able to vote.
And anyway, the wives of the right-wing upper crust are also proud of their skills of manipulation to get what they want, vote or no vote. They look down on women who don’t have those skills or won’t use them.
hueyplong
@Jackie: I’m pretty sure they’d ask to speak to the manager.
sab
@Jackie: How does Justice Barrett feel about it?
Jay
When my Ex and I got married, she did not take my last name, because signatures and spelling, 6 letters is easier than 11 and Gaelic,
When T and I got married, she did not take my last name, because signatures and spelling, 6 letters is easier than 11 and Gaelic, she kept her Ex’s last name, she did not take my last name, because signatures and spelling, 7 letters is easier than 11 and Gaelic, or 14 and Ukrainian,
T asked me how people would know that we were married. I pointed out that when introducing ourselves, it was always wife and husband, and that she was always macking on me.
Jackie
@Chet Murthy: It’s ironic; when I married, my first child was my stepdaughter. Her mom married multiple times. Her dad and I gained custody of her, providing her a stable life. When she was eight, she told me it meant everything to her that we ALL had the same last name. She had – at that time – two younger half brothers who each had different last names. Five and eight yrs later, her dad and I gave her another brother, and a little sister – all with her last name. I never forgot her saying that, so when her dad and I divorced seven yrs later, I kept my married name so that everyone would have the same last name as a common connection.
I never remarried, so I still have my ex’s name.
HumboldtBlue
@Chet Murthy:
I used a real email to read it, they send a free link.
Jackie
@sab: Is Barrett her married name? This SAVE Act may give her pause – maybe… she’s a bit of a puzzler at times.
frosty
@Jackie: Mrs. Clarence Thomas and Mrs. Samuel Alito have passports so they won’t have a problem.
Jay
@Jackie:
Is Barrett her real name?
Tony G
@Ken: Well … if you are a manager at a high enough level, you’ll get a raise AND a promotion every time you screw up! It’s that meritocracy, you see.
Matt McIrvin
@Adam L Silverman: When I heard about that, I went back and read the actual text of the bill, and since it doesn’t really emphasize the importance of an exact name match, I can’t decide whether disenfranchising married women was the specific intention of it, or if it’s just st00pid and they didn’t bother thinking of that angle because they don’t really see women as full people and the bill is a ridiculous performance object anyway. Republicans legislate with such a combination of foolishness and malice that either is possible.
Jackie
@Jay:
Only her hair dresser knows for sure?
Splitting Image
@David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch:
You could always move to Chicago.
Matt McIrvin
My relatives of my grandparents’ generation never 100% accepted that my wife did not have the same last name as me, judging from things like the addressing of cards and letters.
The next generation seem generally OK with it, but when another family member got divorced, I remember hearing some snark about how his ex not taking his last name “should have been his first warning”, which we didn’t much appreciate.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, …
I mean it’s not impossible – she’s an amazing talent…
Cheers,
Scott.
scav
@Matt McIrvin: Just tell them naah, clearly the initial fault was the husband’s, a simple category error, if he wanted a doormat he shouldn’t have married a women, and that if branding is so important to him, he should have married a cow.
Jay
https://mockpaperscissors.com/2024/09/22/about-the-shutdown/
Jackie
Pretty impressive!
Match that, DonOLD!
And send a few of those nickels to FL and TX senate races!
NotMax
“Budget? We don’ need no es-stinking budget.”
//
TS
@Jackie:
At this point in their lives, I don’t think they would care – as the % men who would vote as they wish, would win the election.
Matt McIrvin
@Soprano2: They were going to supposedly demand that the SAVE Act be passed and applied by all 50 states to voter registrations in THIS ELECTION (note, early voting has already started in this election), which is so ridiculous that my best guess is that this is the kind of bill that was never intended to be actually passed, but to be used as a fetish object to bluster and shut down the government over and eventually to use its non-passage as “evidence” that the election, like everything in the universe apparently, was stolen by illegal immigrants. They’re surely going to do that last part.
TS
@Jay:
I couldn’t bring myself to do that 2nd time around, so I changed my name again. To prove who I currently am – I need birth certificate 2 marriage certificates and a divorce certificate. My maiden name is on the first marriage certificate, my No 1 marriage name is on my 2nd marriage certificate. Cost me a fortune when I had to get a passport in recent times – all husband needed was a birth certificate.
(In my part of the world, a marriage certificate is 100% OK for proving your name – in all states). The only record that comes from the courts is the divorce certificate.
Gin & Tonic
@dc:
My wife and I have two grown, married daughters, neither of whom took their husband’s surname. Kind of amusing, because the surname they inherited from me is considerably longer and more complex than either husband’s surname, but that didn’t seem to matter to them. Our son’s wife also seems to want to stick with her original surname (being Mexican, she actually has two.)
TS
@Matt McIrvin:
Go with malice – every time.
wjca
Realistically, we won’t see one for the upcoming (i.e. starting next week) fiscal year. It’s not like the massive incompetents in charge of the various House committees have anything useful done this past year. So we’re looking at Continuing Resolutions, of whatever lengths (plus occasional special purpose spending bills).**
The new Congress, optimistically assuming a Democratic majority, will spend its time as they would expect to in a normal Congress (older jackels may remember when we had those): getting a budget put together for the fiscal year starting 1 October 2025. Might even get them done on time. Radical!
** Arguably, this could be a plus for President Harris. Since there is no budget, there would be no issue of “that isn’t in the budget.” So, just do it.
dc
@Gin & Tonic: They’re in the minority, 80% of women take their husband’s last name, 5% hyphenate, only 14% keep their given name.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/07/about-eight-in-ten-women-in-opposite-sex-marriages-say-they-took-their-husbands-last-name/
Jay
@Matt McIrvin:
Schrodinger’s Illegal,
They are taking all the welfare,
while taking all the jobs.
Jay
@TS:
Both my wife and I just need either our Drivers license and our BC Care card. Only 2 pieces of ID needed for anything not financial. Financial requires one piece of Government ID and a Social Security number, not even the card, just the number.
Jackie
@TS: Your testimony is #1 reason showing EQUALITY for women still needs fighting for. My ex burned our marriage certificate in a fit of anger right after we separated. I didn’t realize 49 yrs later I’d need it in order to get a Real ID to fly domestically. That cost me $108.00 to get an original copy. 😖
We still haven’t “come a long way, baby.”
Yutsano
This, fortunately, is no longer true. Although I do remember when they had to pass a separate funding bill just to make sure we did get our backpay. It is a fairly recent change passed in the Second Pelosi era I do believe.
HumboldtBlue
sab
@Jackie: Her maiden name was Amy Coney. She married Jesse Barrett.
Matt McIrvin
@Jackie: These documents are always expensive to get if you don’t have whatever original copy you got issued ages ago, and it makes all of these “ballot security” proposals effectively poll taxes, which I’m sure is a large part of the point.
I had to get both a birth certificate and a marriage certificate for employment and insurance reasons when I got my previous job, and, man, that cost a lot and took a significant amount of time. I still had the birth certificate my parents had been issued at the hospital when I was born, but it was a tiny flimsy thing that had faded to almost complete illegibility.
sab
@Matt McIrvin: And it takes time. I was born in NC but I live in Ohio. It took me a year to get my birth certificate from NC the first time I needed it. I suppose I could have driven to Durham to get a copy.
Citizen Alan
@Weftage: They are all like Mrs. E.
TS
@Jay: I usually only need my drivers licence and 1 other piece of ID (usually a health care card) but for a passport you have to go back to square 1 and prove you are a citizen via birth certificate (or naturalisation). Then you have to equate your current name to the birth certificate.
If I had my time over – I would not have changed my name the first time around – but it was a long time ago, I was too young to even be getting married, & a woman keeping a maiden name after marriage was a rarity.
ArchTeryx
@Matt McIrvin: They’ve been sued on the poll tax angle, too. IIRC, at least one of those suits went to the Supremes, and you can guess that outcome.
BR
Kudos to the Jackal (can’t remember who) who coined this — everyone is using the line now:
“Tim Walz is the dad that Fox News stole from too many of us”
It’s the top comment on the Tim Walz auto repair video:
https://www.tiktok.com/@meidastouch/video/7416782092224367918
Jackie
@Matt McIrvin: Yah, my original BC is a black flimsy piece of dog eared paper. I keep it protected with tissue paper enclosed in a ziplock bag. If I have to produce it on a regular basis (voting) I’ll have to order a new original.
I wonder if wallet sized BC and marriage certificates are in our future in order to vote or travel. AND how affordable to acquire. Sad.
Chet Murthy
@Jackie: we need a national ID card and an affirmative responsibility on the federal government that they provide that card to all citizens. It cannot be on citizens to get that card; it needs to be on the government to Ensure that we have it. I understand the problems with having a national ID card,But given the digital Society we live in, Any downside of such an ID is already there baked in.
Citizen Alan
@Chet Murthy: Well we can’t have a national ID card! That would make it the Mark of the Beast!
Jackie
@Chet Murthy: That used to be our Social Security card – until identity theft became A Thing. Which, ironically, also changed from my maiden name to my married name. 🤷
And the government decreed couldn’t be used for ID.
NotMax
@Citizen Alan
Absitively, posilutely do not want a “Papers, please” country. That way lies the antithesis of Lincoln: government of the state, by the state and for the state.
Blech³.
Chet Murthy
@Jackie: in a more same country it would be the affirmative Duty of government to provide credentials to Citizens For any interaction with government that required such credentials.
BR
@NotMax:
There is a way to square the circle. Require:
1. A “must issue” requirement at the federal level for an ID card to all citizens and permanent residents.
2. A “may not” requirement: except for voting (for example) no governmental body at any level or any official with the color of law may ask to see the ID or proof of it.
Jackie
@Chet Murthy: We’re obviously an insane country. TCFG and MAGA plus GQP are proof of this.
Jackie
@BR: This still doesn’t address women who have taken their husband’s surnames?
Unless I missed a step?
NotMax
@BR
Occurrence of non-citizen voting (if any) is exceedingly rare and not a botheration of any import.
No system is 100% foolproof; any system allows to one degree or another of things falling through the cracks.
Chet Murthy
@Jackie: I would think that a federal ID, and a federal duty to ensure that citizens’ IDs are up-to-date and valid, would mean that at marriage, the federal ID gets updated. Of course, it would also mean that each citizen has an ID number which is their real identity: their “name” would be a courtesy identifier, not the unambiguous one.
wjca
Perhaps something more like: except for (a small number of) enumerated exceptions (e.g. voting), requirements for asking to see the ID approximating those for getting a subpoena.
Also add:
3. No non-governmental individual, company, institution, etc. may require display of the ID, not providing whatever number is attached to the ID. (We’ve seen, with the SSN, an identifying number adopted for uses never intended. Want to shortstop that up front.)
Yarrow
@Jackie: Instead of producing a birth certificate you can show your passport. From Adam’s comment above:
You have to provide a birth certificate to get a passport. And if you’ve been married and changed your name, divorced, etc., you have to have all the relevant paperwork. But the passport would work. You can also get a “passport card,” which is a wallet sized version that can be used for some things but should be allowed in this ridiculous and sexist scenario.
cain
@Matt McIrvin:
Aren’t these the assholes that were ok to have proof of citizenship on some family bible or something. It was something wild like that.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jackie:
We’re far from the only ones lately. I remember how in the Trump admin, before 2020, some people frequently said how the US “could never be trusted again” because the US elected Trump in 2016 via the EC. That attitude always rubbed me the wrong way. It came across as some kind of reverse American exceptionalism to me. I wonder if these same people would say that for example, Italy or Argentina, “could never be trusted again” for electing far-right governments? How about New Zealand?
Chet Murthy
@wjca: I have to be frank: I don’t see what the problem is with requiring citizens to show their government ID, as long as the government has an affirmative duty to ensure citizens have such ID and to keep it up-to-date. I’ve worked wiith “entity analytics” systems, and they’re very able to identify individuals based on combinations of existing records, e.g. credit card, power bill, drivers license, etc. And the government for sure uses such systems: I know this from seeing those systems delivered to government agencies.
Chet Murthy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): It wasn’t b/c we elected TCFG. It was b/c -first- we elected Bush, who proceeded to rip up the fabric of the Western Alliance, taking the US into an illegal war for no good reason. And -then- along came TCFG who proceeded to put Western Alliance in jeopardy -again-.
American hegemony is a real thing. And our allies expect the hegemon to act sanely, b/c otherwise, what’s the point of going along with that hegemony? It’s very different from (say) Italy or New Zealand going right-wing: they aren’t the leaders of the Western Alliance, upon which all allies depend.
For example, militarily only the US has expeditionary military capability: all our other allies depend on us for that. Only the US has significant geospatial imaging capability: as we’ve seen, the UK can tell Ukraine they can use Storm Shadows in Russia, but the US has to provide the imaging for targeting.
P.S. And what do we get out of being the hegemon? Well for starters, we’re able to convince the rest of the world to hold dollars, financing our extravagant lifestyle. Any “normal” country would have had its debt downgraded long ago, and been forced to live much more within its means. But we have the exhobitant privilege that comes with the world’s reserve currency. And that is partially b/c we’re the hegemon.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Chet Murthy:
Like, OK, but it sure seems like a trend worldwide that the entire world is slowly losing it’s mind, with Brexit and the 2016 US election being early examples. They are not immune to this. Nobody is. I don’t think it’s fair to single out the US, “hegemon” or not. How long do you think a democratic US would last when a majority of the Western Alliance are far-right? The Alliance itself?
Jay
@Chet Murthy:
And, in most of US Allied Countries, many “far right” political parties would for the most part, be considered “centerist” in the US, not the Dolt45 Cult or Project 2025.
eg. The “Brothers of Italy” party.
Until the cult is destroyed, from the outside, there is the sane party, the insane party, a bunch of ruZZian controlled spoilers, and the US is one vote away from going back to being insane and a global threat.
Even the “sane” party has a cadre of members who want to start a war with China for shits and giggles.
Citizen Alan
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I am of the opinion that, fifty years from now, historians (assuming there are any left) will say that World War 3 happened in 2016. It was fought entirely in cyberspace. And the victory of Czar Putin and the New Russian Empire was so complete in its early stages that Great Britain committed economic suicide while the United States gave supreme executive power over to Putin’s handpicked viceroy for a four-year term.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jay:
Why is sane in scare quotes?
Citizen Alan
I am resigned to the fact that every Presidential election for the rest of my life will basically be the entire country playing Russian Roulette.
Jay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Jackie
@Yarrow: And if you don’t have a passport?
I don’t have the means to travel outside of the U.S. – except maybe Canada or Mexico – which are within driving distance. Yet still expensive to travel to.
So I’ve never considered getting a passport. It would be an unnecessary expense, in my case..
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jay:
Such as?
And Brothers of Italy being a “centerist” party?:
I’d call that pretty bad and not much different than MAGA
Chet Murthy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): “How long do you think a democratic US would last when a majority of the Western Alliance are far-right? The Alliance itself?”
Well, that’s sort of the point: if the US goes fascist, the Alliance will fall apart, and then Russia and China will feast. Part of how that will happen, is that Western countries will make accommodations with RU/CN. The reason it is of outsize importance that the US remains Democratic, is that our impact on our allies vastly outmatches our allies’ impact on us.
Chet Murthy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): In the annals of “I pick a bad day to stop sniffing glue”, I read recently that Mussolini’s granddaughter (Alessandra?) broke with FdI over LGBTQ (IIRC — it was a social issue). She said that FdI was too right-wing. As I said, “a bad day to stop sniffing glue.”
Jay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Well, they are all in on NATO, the EU and stopping ruZZia and liberating Ukraine, they have “purged” their Vatnicks and Appeasers, unlike both US major political parties
BTW, Italy is a key and strained nation in regards to Putin’s creation of a refugee crisis. Kinda like MAGA and most American’s don’t have a clue why Haitians are in the US.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Chet Murthy:
I don’t see why their impact couldn’t be significant on the US. To me, it seems like you and others are kind of taking the view that only the United States has agency and only it can do harm to the world when there’s a lot of bad actors out there. It stands to reason more of our allies going down the right-wing path would add to that number
Chet Murthy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): You might want to read Tony Judt’s _Postwar_. The US expended a lot of effort (and money) to keep our allies from going Communist, soon after the war. Sure, if a large number of our allies went Fascist, it would affect us. But if -we- go Fascist, it will affect -all- of them. All of them.
The US holds together this multilateral alliance. RU (and CN) don’t like that, b/c they’d prefer to deal with each country individually. By doing so, they can have the better of each bilateral relationship. If the US went Fash, our alliances would fall apart.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jay:
That’s great and all, but they’re still persecuting sexual minorities, not to mention half of their population, i.e. women, with their anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage stances. Plus their stances on immigration and the pro-natalist crap. If that’s not far-right (equivalent to MAGA) then I don’t know what is.
And what the hell do you mean “both”?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Chet Murthy:
Huh, interesting
Chet Murthy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Have you ever wondered how it can be, that people can commit crimes in other countries, and get prosecuted/convicted/imprisoned here? Or the proceeds of their crimes get confiscated by US authorities? It’s b/c we control the West’s financial system. That, again, is a part of our hegemony. We set the rules for the West’s economy. If we go autocratic, we’ll get much more corrupt, and quickly. And that will cause our hold on that financial system to weaken, b/c our counterparties aren’t going to sit still for us fucking it up. The Euro will get stronger, but so will the yuan. Perhaps the yen.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Chet Murthy:
That was a reply to #124, not the other one. I wasn’t being dismissive sorry if I came off that way
Chet Murthy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): no worries, I was just expanding on other ways in which the US has an outsize impact on the structure of our world.
Jay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
How’s that letting Ukraine fight back and win thing going? Oh right, it’s not. The US is barring the use of even EU weapons, because they have export controlled components while ruZZia flattens Ukrainian cities and murders Ukrainian civilians with weapons full of “export controlled components”.
982 Modern Tanks from the EU to Ukraine,
32 obsolete Abram’s from the US when there are over 2400 more modern ones sitting in storage in the desert.
0 F-16’s, etc.
Funny that.
Taiwan is gonna be so fucked.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jay:
You didn’t address the homophobia, or the anti-abortion stances of the Brothers of Italy Party I brought up
Jay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Our Con’s are shitbags too, here in Canada, they are like 1990’s ReThugs, it’s no different in Italy, France, Germany, Britain,
but they arn’t MAGgAts, no Project 2025, (although the Brit’s came close with their Rwanda scheme), no planned genocide.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jay:
Chet Murthy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I don’t know enough about FdI to say that they’re not fascist. But there -is- a difference between being misogynist, xenophobic, homophobic, etc, and being Fascist. As David Frum put it so well, when conservatives realize that they can’t win in a democracy, they will turn their backs on democracy. Maybe that’s happening in Italy: I don’t know, But it’s important to mark the distinction, even if there’s no hard dividing line.
Jay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
BTW, did you know that most Italians still identify as Catholic, and the Vatican is still anti-abortion?
And funny thing, Italian abortion laws are far less restrictive than in 32 US States, under Brothers of Italy party recently passed laws. Plus, the Italian State still pays for all abortions, up to 12 weeks from conception, to term if the Mother is at risk, the future child is at risk or unviable and abortifacients are available over the counter.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jay:
I’m sure LGBTQ+ Italians are simply thrilled
Chet Murthy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): a lot of people are sacrificing a lot for this election. Just as we did in 2018, 2020, and 2022. They’re not doing it simply because LGBTQ rights, or abortion, are at stake. They’re doing it because -democracy- is at stake. With democracy, those rights can be won back. Without democracy, they’re gone until there’s a revolution.
I think it’s relevant to remain aware of that distinction.
Jay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Oh my sweet, sweet, naive, summer child. You have no idea how Far Right Parties morph into simply Right Wing parties because your only experience is the opposite, and then the descent into a cult.
Jay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Less thrilled than American 2SLGBTQIA+, who are facing a violent genocide under Project 2025.
There are no anti 2SLGBTQIA+ laws in Italy.
The Brother’s of Italy Party’s anti-2SLGBTQIA+ platform is basically Biden 1998.
NotMax
@Jay
Wait a few months and there’ll be new faces in office. Italy has averaged a new government every 13 months since WW2.
From 2022: 70 governments in 77 years: Why Italy changes governments so often.
As for the Vatican, it’s good to be the king, a non-hereditary absolute monarch of virtually a dot on the map.
SectionH
Well, Addison told the House idiots to not fuck it up that much. He’s evil, and sadly he’s not stupid.
Jay
@NotMax:
Giorgia Meloni and her alliance have and are still popular, and “threading the needle” quite well.
Italy has taken in over 300,000 refugees, (Syrian’s, Afghan’s, Iraqi’s. etc, see any foot prints there?) in a weak economy.
They have purged the ruZZians and Vatniks, ditched their anti-EU ideas, etc.
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Are you saying that Prime Minister Meloni’s govermment is “Far-Right”? It seems more like a “Right” government to me.
Jay
@Geminid:
Yeah, that’s what he is trying to say, that Italy is full of Nazi’s.
RT propaganda goes really far with Felon Musk’s help.
bjacques
@Jay: I presume Italy’s full of Nazus because they’re helping Ukraine. //s
IIRC It’s Salvio from the National Alliance who is playing the bad cop. The government is still far right by European standards and by some US standards. But it could have been worse and you can’t fix potholes by blaming immigrants, and there’s plenty of notorious homegrown organized crime that can’t easily be blamed on them.
Ditto the Netherlands, which is also far-right by historical standards but also stands by Ukraine and has to deal with normal state problems. Of course, they’re balancing the budget by gutting culture and school lunches.
Either way, the European far right is hardly monolithic, happily to the vexation of the likes of Steve Bannon.
Jay
@bjacques:
Most of the Western “far right” with power, arn’t “far right”, they are just Reagan ReThuglicans, they had to shed the “far right ethos” and “members” to get that power, where in the US,……well Project 2025.
Gloria DryGarden
@Jay:
glad they have that access. What a contrast to the reproductive rights situation here in the USA.
Geminid
@Jay:
@bjacques: zItaly is really different from the US. It has a very different (parliamentary) political system, and is different culturally and demographically.
Itaky’s economy is not nearly as strong as ours and that’s one reason immigration hits differently there. Italy has had a hard time the last few decades creating jobs for it’s native-born citizens, and that makes it harder for them to absorb immigrants.
It’s harder to integrate new prople into a society when they are not integrated into the economy. I can see the opposite here. My landlord lives in Charlottesville, and he rented the bottom floor of his house to a Syrian family a few years ago. They were sponsored by a refugee assistance organization (ICR?).
The father trained as a welder and the 8 year old son went to school in his Yankees baseball cap. The mother stayed home with the daughter, a special needs child. Now they live 20 mikes up Rt. 29 in a house they bought that’s close to the father’s job, and Bill has an Afghan family living downstairs.
Gloria DryGarden
I’m feeling the need to understand more about what counts as right, vs far right, in the various countries mentioned above. Here’s my unsophistication, showing. Can y’all suggest an trusted author, a web page, even a recent thread here? All I knew was Netherlands voted in some right/ far right situation, and I heard that marine Levon has been trying to lead France, but didn’t win the last few elections. I kind of get what seems extreme here in the us. I just can’t get caught up on all of it if I have to wade through oodles of texts. Does anyone have a short definition? Is it a continuum of wealth inequity, or a continuum of authoritarianism?
Baud
@Gloria DryGarden:
Good luck. Accurate and consistent political labels are the Holy Grail of political discourse. IOW, they don’t exist.
Jay
@Gloria DryGarden:
There is no simple answer. The easiest is that former far right parties in Europe, in many places, have made election inroads by moderating their positions and policies to move into the space former mainstream right wing parties have abandoned by moving left.
There was a Guardian article the other day about Macron’s “Right Wing” Government,……..
Gloria DryGarden
@Gloria DryGarden: marine le pen. Auto correct!
I’m not spelling it right, but it’s phonetically correct.
Yarrow
@Jackie: Yes, I understand. I did not mean to suggest that everyone had a passport. It’s just one way to save having to show your birth certificate, since, in your case, you’re worried it’s going to fall apart. Again, it’s a stupid thing to even be discussing because it’s wrong and unfair. It’s sexist and essentially a tax on women, as well as a way to keep them from voting. We shouldn’t even have to be talking about it.
Matt McIrvin
@cain:
Voter ID laws in Republican-controlled states can have hilariously slanted lists of what counts as proper ID: gun licenses are good but student IDs aren’t.
Kosh III
When was the last time Congress passed a long-term budget and not a sting of continuing resolutions and/or 6/12 month? I can’t remember one, maybe the 70s?
Baud
@Kosh III: I believe 2021 when Dems controlled everything
ETA: Appropriations are always for a 12 month fiscal year.
Kosh III
@Baud: Thanks, that’s encouraging.
Barry
@Gvg: “Seems like it would be a law that makes women just revert to the original name very fast.”
Most women won’t even know about this.
wjca
Until they go to vote anyway. Although I doubt the DNC would fail to trumpet it extensively, as part of their usual “register and vote” push.
Geminid
@Gloria DryGarden: One way to get a better understanding of politics in a foreign country is to look up the Wikipedia page for that nation’s most recent election. There will be info on the various parties including political views and and how they did compared to the last election. Also, how and why the previous government fell, because many European ruling coalitions do not hold up for their allotted mandate.
We are used to America’s system but parliamentary systems are a whole different ballgame. Most European majorities consist of two or more parties and those parties are not static enterprises but evolve over time.
A particular nation’s media can be a good source also, as are publications like the BBC and the Guardian. I do not follow European politics very closely, but I follow Middle Eastern politics, Turkiye and Usrael in particular, and I’ve learned much more from publications like Al Jazeera, Al Arabiya and the Times of Israel* than I ever could from American media. US news sources tend to give these areas short shrift in between wars or other major events because many Americans are not very interested in or curious about foreign nations besides the UK, France and Germany, if they are interested at all.
* London-based Middle East Eye is another good source for reporting on the Middle East and Africa. I believe they are a BBC project.
way2blue
Democrats need to read the fine print on the CR to make sure the Republicans didn’t sneak in some last minute spoilers…