Over at LGM, Paul Campos discusses the latest theory about the size of the Trump vote from Thomas Edsall (published at the NYT, so no link) and adds some context from modern political science. The explanation of the day is “motivated ignorance” — simply put, it’s a hell of a push to expect someone who’s completely invested in the right-wing ecosystem to admit that they’ve been duped by Trump, Fox News and the rest, so they instead ignore that evidence and don’t seek it out. True, indeed, and more evidence of Trump’s duplicity just motivates more denial / ignorance. It’s a bit cultish, but it’s also pretty human to try to preserve one’s identity as a member of a certain group.
Anyway, I’m not a political scientist or a law prof, but there’s another aspect to this phenomenon of denial/ignorance. My early life in the rural plains, and my current travels that have led me to spend a lot of time there in the past few years. As we all know, these are areas that take far more resources from the federal government than they send back in taxes. That’s because, almost to a person, there’s some form of federal assistance helping them.
For the folks who are descendants of immigrants in the rural plains, many of their grandparents and great-grandparents were recipients of one of the biggest government benefit programs in our history, the Homestead Acts. My grandmother, a tough lady, maintained a tar paper shack on a quarter section of land (160 acres) long enough for it to be given to her under one of the Homestead Acts. The value of that land today is around $400,000.
After the “dirty thirties” and WWII, when the government realized that farmers will fuck up the land and either grow too much or too little left to their own devices, an expensive and generous set of farm programs boosted the incomes of farmers and ranchers. Then came rural electrification — the co-ops that were created (by the government, of course) still exist and provide electricity to areas where the invisible hand would never dirty itself. (Someday I’ll write a post about why my family members get a ~$500 check every year from the co-op providing them excellent fiber optic phone and Internet service.) There were also a set of “reclamation” and “flood control” programs where giant dams were built on the Missouri to generate power, provide irrigation and control floods by creating huge reservoirs.
Now, the aging population in these areas are Medicare and Social Security recipients who would be living in grinding poverty if they didn’t get those benefits. Most of their kids and grandkids are on Medicaid because none of the local businesses have the resources or the desire to pay benefits. They go to “critical access” hospitals heavily financed by the government. Their children often at least are on WIC if not SNAP, and may attend government-funded headstart programs. If they’re a small business owner, they probably got a nice big PPP loan that they’ll never pay back.
But if you talk to your average Trumper in the area, their focus (unsurprisingly) isn’t on the many benefits they receive — it’s what happens when the eagle shits for the “poors” (nevermind that many of them are poor, too). The “day the eagle shits” is army slang for payday, but where I grew up, it’s become a general term for when government benefits drop. It’s a big deal. Grocery stores in the little towns prepare for it — in the really small reservation towns, there’s signage listing rules about what can and can’t be done on that day. Locals know the day and avoid shopping. And they all bitch about the inconvenience and also judge people who have “nice cars” or “good things” and still get those benefits.
So is it “motivated ignorance” for the Trumpy benefit recipients to have constructed a fable where their benefits are justified (or hidden), while the other recipients are somehow unworthy? Or is it just the pride of man? Either way, the right-wing media ecosystem is very good at reinforcing their prejudices about undeserving recipients of handouts, and elevating Republicans as the noble beneficiaries of well-deserved benefits. The party that fought Social Security, Medicare and Obamacare gets their loyal, almost automatic vote, while their kids who want a better life move to whatever blue or purple city that’s hundreds of miles away.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Zero-sum crab bucket culture. Greed is good and generosity is for suckers. Even generosity of spirit. What a shitty way to live.
Chris
“The average Tea Partier is sincerely against government spending – with the exception of the money spent on them. In fact, their lack of embarrassment when it comes to collecting government largesse is key to understanding what this movement is all about.”
Yeah, I know Taibbi’s a scumbag. But he wrote at least one good article in his life.
Baud
That’s how I feel about this place.
Steve LaBonne
Keep the government’s hands off my Medicare!
Trivia Man
Just like affirmative action is fine for legacy college admits but heaven forbid any other criteria even considered let alone allowed
Baud
Anywho, I’m not sure what to do about it. There’s no liberal movement to cut these people off, so they can continue to support Republicans without facing personal financial risk.
Old School
That’s the one I agree with.
Old School
@Baud:
Well, they will be at risk if Republicans get elected, but they’ll just blame Democrats when that happens.
3Sice
Chris
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
They want a situation like the Persian Gulf kingdoms, where the native population is drowning in lavish benefits while all the actual work is done by an imported workforce with no rights.
Both the fury over immigration and their seeming hypocrisy over it tie into this. Ultimately, they’re fine with immigration, but only if the immigrants remain an unacknowledged, unprotected, and easily exploitable labor pool made up of the next best thing to slave labor. Any kind of empathy with, let alone advocacy for, these people in the first step on the road to treating them like people – or even, God forbid, citizens – with all the same rights that they themselves have, so it needs to be shut down hard.
Raven
Tbone Walker, 1947
The eagle flies on Friday
Saturday I go out to play
The eagle flies on Friday
Saturday I go out to play
Sunday I go to church
Where I kneel down and pray
Sure Lurkalot
Here’s an archive link to the FTFNYT article if you don’t want to hop over to LGM.
https://archive.is/DePFi
jonas
Alternatively: “Ask not for whom the eagle shits, it shits for thee”.
Chris
@3Sice:
I’d add “a sense of inadequacy,” which the other two things flow from.
No matter how much Fox News bullshit they douse themselves in, no matter how much time they and their drinking buddies spend praising each other and talking about how hardworking and strong they are, there’ll always be a part of them that knows damn well that it’s all cosplay and bullshit. That the real them doesn’t come close to living up to their bullshit self-image as a self-sufficient badass cowboy gunslinger and never will, and that if the world ever really did reflect their stated values about hard work and merit, most of the blacks and immigrants and women they hate would beat them like rented mules. Everything they do is about silencing the voices in their own heads, largely because these voices are telling the truth.
BR
Glad to hear the FDR shoutout in Harris’s speech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWRa30X2PL8
bcwbcw
Kind of like when an abortion provider described having a woman who carrier a ladder to the clinic everyday to be heard better with her megaphone when she screamed at women coming for abortions, then coming into the clinic for an abortion. When asked about the hypocrisy she said she just wasn’t able to have a baby right now but all those other women were sluts.
OId Man Shadow
You can be a shitty person and not be a fascist. Liz Cheney is a shitty person.
There are plenty of goddamned offramps for people to take. Plenty.
Trump gives them permission to be racist, homophobic little shits to other people, and by god, they will stick in that cesspool muck until they fucking die.
dmsilev
<John Ashcroft>
Let the eagle shit, like she’s never shat before
</John Ashcroft>
cmorenc
Ironically, their hazy notion of the 1950s as the America they’d like to “take back” was fueled by public government benefits – the GI Bill – and a strong union-based middle class to name just two.
OId Man Shadow
@cmorenc: Don’t expect them to be rational. They probably believe it was because of segregation and Jesus.
SiubhanDuinne
@BR:
I was in class and missed the first part of her speech, but what I’ve heard the last 10-15 minutes has been spot on. Hope I can watch the whole thing later.
randy khan
In my line of work, rural parts of the country have special subsidies amounting to about $4.5 billion a year just for phone and internet access. These are on top of the funds for schools and libraries, which are more generous to rural areas than non-rural areas, the separate rural health care fund, and the general subsidy for low income households. The $4.5 billion fund is by far the biggest part of the whole universal service program, so rural areas literally get much more in telecommunications subsidies than in every part of the country. (And support for that is bipartisan, too, even though those parts of the country almost never vote for Dems.)
BR
@SiubhanDuinne:
I wish more people would see this — she’s doing great in this speech and I think there’s something for everyone in what she’s saying.
David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch
What have the Romans ever done for us?
Baud
@randy khan:
Didn’t the 5th circuit just get rid of that?
Chris
@OId Man Shadow:
I know, right? It’s still utterly spectacular to me that of all the bad ideas out there, it’s somehow too much to ask for fascism, this one thing, this one simple thing, to be off-limits.
Give me communists. Capitalists. Monarchists. Anarchists. “… compared to you, the other plagues were a JOY!!!”
HumboldtBlue
delphinium
It may actually be a good experiment to run the government like a business. Then all these ‘taker’ states/counties would be in for a surprise when they are fired for being unproductive or are bought up/incorporated by the maker states. As someone in a more rural part of NY, I always laugh when those around me complain about ‘their money’ going to support NYC. Yeah bro, your village of 2000 residents isn’t keeping the lights on there, they are the ones supporting you.
SiubhanDuinne
@BR:
I see that your link goes to the entire speech, so I’ll watch it between now and 7:00 (which is when Stephanie Ruhle’s special interview with MVP airs on MSNBC) and then send it around to friends who likely missed it. Thanks.
geg6
I’m sick and tired of all this poking and prodding at the MAGAts to find out who they are, what they want and how to “fix” them. They are unfixable and resist any and all efforts to fix themselves. They are unhappy, self-hating, low intelligence, unempathetic assholes. People need to quit focusing on them. It gives them all the attention and validation they crave. They should be invisible and unexplored. Fuck them all. Instead of rounding up immigrants, we should be rounding these assholes up and tossing them into the vast wastelands of the Dakotas or something, putting up some electrified fences and never let them out. We can airdrop food once a month and leave them to do as they wish in their space and to each other, but none of us should ever have encounter any of these scum in the wild ever again. Ugh. I hate them all so much.
mali muso
@geg6: Come sit by me.
CaseyL
“Big fish in a small pond” – and the pond keeps getting smaller and more toxic.
I wonder about the kids who don’t leave. That must be where incels come from, and patriarchy-loving young women.
The way the Red States have crippled their school systems, I imagine it also gets harder to leave, since the youngsters become ever more filled with useless non-education.
That’s one way to stabilize the population, I guess. Useless schools, no birth control (and no useful sex ed, either!), and a powerful church to tell them all this is the way God wants it.
Chris
@geg6:
That too.
John Rogers justifying his TV villains is still the best thing I’ve seen written about conservatives:
“The single, unpleasant truth is that most people, particularly criminals, are NOT complex. They are shallow, greedy sons of bitches to whom we attribute genius planning or complex motivations in order to preserve a false sense of order in our universe.”
Chief Oshkosh
So what I’m hearin’, Mistermix, is that if we just arranged for the eagle to be constipated a couple of days every month, this entire problem would go away…die on the vine, or rot in the sun, as it were.
rikyrah
They never minded socialism.
As long as it was WHITE SOCIALISM.
Back then, it was just government programs.
But, the moment others with melanin started partaking of said programs…
SOCIALISM
SOCIALISM
SOCIALISM
HumboldtBlue
So the Trump campaign is paying people to show up then this happens.
p.a.
Back in the day, ATT & the RBOCs had to ante up into a trust fund to finance rural telephone service. Like electric, they couldn’t make a profit providing service in the wide open spaces. As a matter of fact, EVERYONE with a residential line was subsidized, as “we” (former New England Tel & Tel schlub here) overcharged business lines- from Citicorp level down to mom & pop businesses- to keep residential lines cheap.
ETA: see comment 22
David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch
Kamala called you know who “the biggest loser, ever”
geg6
OT, but I’m down to 3 more days of work. I cannot say how much I am looking forward to retiring.
Latest ridiculous thing this sort-of new administration here has done is send out an email to all employees touting this new wonderful thing they are doing to mark people’s years of service. Up until now, you only got recognition for 25 years of service and it was a choice of a very ugly side chair or rocking chair with the University’s logo on it. You don’t get a choice to turn it down or take the cash, you have to pick one of the chairs. So I got the rocking chair and promptly gave it to my sister, who graduated from the University (I got my undergrad and grad degrees from it’s largest in-state rival). Now they have decided they have to mark years of service every five years. And it’s going to be a “year book” that your supervisor has to put together with pictures and quotes about you from students and colleagues. It will not only be a digital book, but they plan to actually print these things. In my office suite this morning, you could tell who had just opened up the email by the sound of hysterical laughter coming from their offices. WTF is wrong with these people?!?!?!?
H.E.Wolf
@bcwbcw:
Sadly, not new at all. From a quarter-century ago: “The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion: When the Anti-Choice Choose”
https://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/articles/anti-tales.shtml
BigJimSlade
@Raven: that was the first thing I thought of, too. Calling it shit is pretty indicative of their mindset.
Chet Murthy
Linda Taylor: not even Black: https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/12/20/255819681/the-truth-behind-the-lies-of-the-original-welfare-queen
Taylor’s own racial reality is much harder to pin down, however. Born Martha Miller, she was listed as white in the 1930 Census, just like everyone else in her family. But she had darker skin and darker hair. People who knew her family told Levin that she had Native American ancestry. One of her husbands, who was black, said she could look like an Asian woman at times. Another earlier husband and ostensible father to some of her children was white, and during that marriage she gave birth to kids who alternately appeared black, unmistakably white, or racially ambiguous. At times she posed as a Jewish woman. In one photo, she has long, blonde hair.
“She was white according to official records and in the view of certain family members who couldn’t imagine it any other way,” Levin writes. ” She was black (or colored, or a Negro) when it suited her needs, or when someone saw a woman they didn’t think, or didn’t want to think, could possibly be Caucasian.”
HumboldtBlue
And these assholes send people like the ever-odious Clay Higgins to Congress where they get to proudly represent their constituents by being as openly fucking racist as they can be.
rikyrah
@geg6:
Congratulations! :)
rikyrah
Monjula Ray![]()
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(@queerBengali) posted at 0:18 PM on Wed, Sep 25, 2024:
Democrats don’t support capital punishment but also cannot rescue folks from red state governors and republican judges.
If you want Dem policy to be the policy of all of the United states, you have to vote for more Dems and stop lying about both parties being the same.
(https://x.com/queerBengali/status/1838991544420053446?s=03)
rikyrah
Tristan Snell (@TristanSnell) posted at 10:14 AM on Wed, Sep 25, 2024:
BREAKING: Jared Kushner paid $112 MILLION by Saudis for running the $2 billion investment fund they set up for him — despite making ZERO profits the last 3 years.
S&P 500 has risen 54.4% during the same time frame.
Is Kushner wildly incompetent – or is this a political payoff?
(https://x.com/TristanSnell/status/1838960228601057629?s=03)
Chet Murthy
@rikyrah: My memory is that the Saudis didn’t actually cough up that $2B: they only promised to cough it up when he asked for it to invest in concrete things. So in fact, they’re paying him $112m for …. bupkis pretty much.
rikyrah
Been saying this for awhile..
I believe Ms. Valenti is wrong.
They are not falling for anything.
They are deliberately doing this because this is how they get to BOTH SIDES the issue.
And, if they can’t BOTH SIDES an issue, they won’t report on it at all.
Jessica Valenti (@JessicaValenti) posted at 1:48 PM on Wed, Sep 25, 2024:
The Springfield News-Leader says that Sen. Josh Hawley doesn’t support a national ban. That’s just not true.
Hawley said, “I don’t support a nationwide ban, I do support reasonable federal restrictions.”
But those are the same thing! Reporters have to stop falling for this.
(https://x.com/JessicaValenti/status/1839014145628201191?s=03)
rikyrah
I Smoked Diddy (@BlackKnight10k) posted at 0:57 PM on Wed, Sep 25, 2024:
The Teamsters President refusing to endorse Kamala Harris because he’s personally a Trumper has been a bigger boon for Kamala Harris than just doing the right thing. She’s getting a new Teamsters endorsement every few days now.
(https://x.com/BlackKnight10k/status/1839001198000574814?s=03)
Gloria DryGarden
@HumboldtBlue: good.
wjca
They have a choice: they can give you a promotion and a significant raise every 5 years or so, to demonstrate that your work is appreciated and keep you motivated. Or they can give you a cheap gift every 5 years, to show how much they appreciate you. For some, I suppose, faux recognition is enough.
Sister Golden Bear
To paraphrase Upton Sinclair, it is
difficultimpossible to get a MAGAts to understand something when their self identity as rugged individualists depends on them not understanding it.Also too, like a number of people they
wantneed other people to make the same life choices — by force if necessary — to validate their own lives. This is a major reason LGBTQ+ kids — who are vastly over-represented among unbiased kids living on the streets — get kicked out of their parents’ homes. Likewise, why some MAGA politicians, and many more parents, overtly talk about preferring to have a dead son rather than than a live trans daughter. More broadly, it’s behind the rage about their kids leaving dying towns for better opportunities.Sister Golden Bear
@geg6: What, no
motivationalcelebratory pizza party as well? /sBelafon
@cmorenc: Yes, if you were a white male.
Mousebumples
Just got a text push poll sponsored by the WI GOP.
I’ll vote for Dems.
Tell me slanted lies I’ve been hearing in Hovde ads for months I’m still voting Dem.
Yes. I’m still voting Dem. Up and down the ballot.
Sister Golden Bear
@rikyrah: Amen. Absolutely true. It’s like the old. SNL skit where Eddie Murphy poses as a white man and has other white people keep giving him freebies. Because white.
unrelatedwaffle
@geg6: bless.
Sister Golden Bear
@rikyrah: Porque no los dos.
CaseyL
@Mousebumples:
Since even the good polling outfits (who are trying desperately to adapt) wind up soliciting people to participate in their polls, I’m curious about how a not-good polling outfit finds people.
How did WI-GOP decide to send a poll to you? Are you somehow in their records as a GOP voter?
Matt
I don’t get the continual smokescreen on this.
Whenever he says racist shit, these people line up to cheer and shout “HE’S SAYING WHAT WE’RE ALL THINKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!”.
Why is it so hard for some people to accept that we’re sharing a country with racist assholes?
Scout211
A follow-up of a discussion here on balloon-juice. Singer Chappell Roan said she will vote for Kamala Harris.
Good for her.
Jackie
@CaseyL: I got a text poll the other day, started out with President choices, then shifted to asking me who I voted for House rep in my district during the Primary. I selected the D. Then, as WA State does the jungle primary, I was asked if I was voting for TCFG endorsed MAGA Jerrod Sessler or TCFG’s enemy Dan Newhouse. Both Republican, but one is mega MAGA. I’ll plug my nose tightly and vote Newhouse. This is the first time my CD didn’t have a Democrat on the General Election ballot 😢
Super Dave
No good deed goes unpunished.
JML
@rikyrah: We lost a member over our Local endorsing when the IBT did not. Dropped from due-paying to free rider.
It’s hard to help people who refuse to admit when the wolves at the door.
BR
Speaking of MAGA devotees, I posted this in an earlier thread but this one might be more appropriate — send these photos and message to your MAGA family and friends (read the thread too):
https://bsky.app/profile/the-jaguarr.bsky.social/post/3l4yew2uacs2j
TBone
Here is President Biden’s full interview on The View:
https://youtu.be/8cb6QpEyaWo
Mousebumples
@CaseyL: lol, I doubt it. I am in a purple part of the state, but they might be wondering if I’d waffle on supporting Baldwin over the border, inflation, corruption, or whatever scare mongering they want to try.
I’m hoping it means they’re feeling desperate.
Ksmiami
@geg6: couldn’t have said it better myself. Maga is unworthy of our time or concern. Fence them in and let them fight eachother. They are unworthy of living in a rich, complex democratic country.
WaterGirl
I laughed out loud.
cain
@Jackie: Clearly they were waiting for you to run!
Michael Bersin
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
Oh, yeah.
Fifteen years ago:
“…They’re pissed that Claire [McCaskill] asked how many of them were on Medicare (several hundred) and then asking how many wanted off (a handful) – pointing out the crowd’s hypocrisy about government health care. No matter what anyone does they’ll be pissed and stay pissed. And they ain’t voting for any Democrats. Ever…”
Senator Claire McCaskill (D): open forum in Hillsboro – photos (August 12, 2009)
Dorothy A. Winsor
On a cheerier note, I just saw a cartoon of St. Peter at the Golden Gates. There’s a bunch of dogs in front of him, and Peter says, “Of course you’re all getting in.”
WaterGirl
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Sweet!
Chet Murthy
@Michael Bersin: I know back in the day people used to slag on Sen. McCaskill for being Dem-lite, but I remember her (metaphorically) banging her shoe on the podium for reproductive rights. And for the ACA. I was sad when she lost.
rikyrah
President Biden on The View
https://youtu.be/8cb6QpEyaWo
hitchhiker
I have one trumper in my extended family, or at least I have one who is willing to admit it in my hearing. He’s long been captured by the fun and snark of it all, and has allowed his relationships with his young adult daughters to be wrecked, and his relationship with me to be severely iced — all in the name of the fun and snark.
He’s going to be really surprised, I think, to realize that it was never “just politics” and that we aren’t going to get over it. That formulation is the most enraging part of this for me. It’s why I can’t read the NYT or the Post or my local paper without wanting to throw things. The idea that we’re “just on the left” and they’re “just on the right,” and that our squabbling is about tax rates or education or even abortion — that idea is what’s destroyed so many relationships, and will keep on destroying them for the foreseeable future.
When I vote, it’s because the person I’m voting for has shown that they understand the job and have the capacity & integrity to do it. When my brother votes, it’s because he knows his candidate winning would make a lot of people angry and depressed, and he 100% wants that to happen because he believes those people look down on him.
He gets to tell himself that it’s just politics, but if he had to name two policies that matter most to him, he wouldn’t be able to do it. I know, because I used to try to have that conversation. He thinks politics is like rugby with fewer rules and referees eager to be bribed, and the only point is winning. And he learned that from trump.
rikyrah
Jen “We aren’t going back ” Rubin![]()
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@JRubinBlogger
not enough economic detail?? Harris leaves critics with egg on faces spelling out a host of economic proposals and emphasizing capitalist credentials.
Last edited3:16 PM · Sep 25, 2024
https://x.com/JRubinBlogger/status/1839036207394631765
rikyrah
Acyn
@Acyn
Cuban: I look at the Harris campaign as a company and Kamala as the CEO. She’s had, what, 45 days, 60 days to build an entire organization. You look at the result. She went from negative favorability rating, she went from recognition being relatively low, she went from being way behind in every single poll you looked at and now look where she’s at. Worst case she’s tied.. in many cases she’s ahead.
https://x.com/Acyn/status/1839043334385627632
Baud
@rikyrah:
I understand what she’s trying to convey because I’m aware of the way people are now, but I still find that phrasing funny.
rikyrah
@hitchhiker:
Politics is values.
The other side wants to deny me my humanity..
and, I say hell no to that.
wjca
Getting past the purity absolutists is a long, slow, slog. Still far from complete, but at least progress is being made. (To their fury.)
gene108
I do not understand the bug up their ass liberals have about PPP loans.
It helped keep small businesses afloat.
P.S. The way a business had their PPP loan forgiven was to limit the number of employees laid off.
Omnes Omnibus
@rikyrah: You keep saying this. And you keep being correct about it.
SW
It’s all tribal. There are two tribes. One based on white supremacy and resentment of diversity. The other based on tolerance and inclusion. Demographic realities dictate that one of these tribes is shrinking while the other expands. But, at this particular moment in history they are roughly equivalent.
This dynamic is independent of the figureheads selected by either side. In the end the contests will be determined by which tribe does the better job of motivating its membership and getting them to show up at the polls. Twenty or thirty years from now we will have moved beyond this impasse. But for now we live in interesting times.
BR
@gene108:
The problem with PPP wasn’t the legit small businesses who benefited. It was that it was an completely unaccountable slush fund controlled by Trump’s shady Treasury secretary who doled it out to tons of folks who shouldn’t have gotten it. There was by all indications lots of fraud that never got punished.
Peke Daddy
@rikyrah: Could have put it in an index fund, if it were possible. It’s a payoff, of course.
K-Mo
LGM has a gift link, but here’s another one:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/25/opinion/trump-maga-sources-support.html?unlocked_article_code=1.NU4.xjxT.5RemWQrCCkkZ&smid=url-share
The conversation here isn’t wrong but we’re a bit off the track of the article, which I recommend reading.
I thought it was chilling. The final graf:
This research reveals a wellspring of animus against marginalized groups in the United States that can be harnessed and activated for political gain. Trump’s unique ability to do so is not the only cause for normative concern.
Instead, we should take note that these attitudes exist across both parties and among nonpartisans. Though they may remain relatively latent when leaders and parties draw attention elsewhere, the right leader can activate these attitudes and fold them into voters’ political judgments.
BR
@K-Mo:
The the NYT sees their job as to amplify hatred. They are the megaphone.
karen marie
@HumboldtBlue: People have been making this claim since 2015. I’d like to see a receipt.
The Audacity of Krope
We see a problem. The NYT sees a market.
Ruckus
@geg6:
WTF is wrong with these people?!?!?!?
EVERYTHING
karen marie
@HumboldtBlue: Called Andy Biggs’ office. “He hasn’t put out a statement.” “I haven’t talked to him about it.”
The only reason that motherfucker continues to get elected is no one who lives in his district even realizes that such a thing as a representative exists. They couldn’t name him, recognize his name, or pick him out of a lineup of one.
I struggle to know which religious sect I despise more – Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormons. I’m leaning towards Mormons because at least Jehovah’s Witnesses have the decency to stay out of politics.
To make sure I wasn’t ignorantly shooting my mouth off about the staying out of politics, I googled the question. I am correct – there are no elected officials who are Jehovah’s Witnesses. Surprisingly, while 76% are apolitical, 18% are Democrats or lean Democratic while only 7% are Republican or lean Republican.
I don’t understand any of the charts below that one because everything is the same color.
Jackie
Short term budget passed.
TBone
Attention! Please get to safety if you’re in the path, Florida people!
https://x.com/MichaelRLowry/status/1839056154606903651
One of the Many Jens
@gene108: Personally, I have zero bugs anywhere about the PPP loans, or those that weren’t paid back. And in a widespread crisis like this, to get help to those who need it, there will be those that get it who don’t need it. (I’m not happy about fraud or the Trump hacks who ran it, obviously, but I’m not letting it color my opinion about the necessity of the program as a whole.)
But it does grate my cheese to hear Republicans who got their PPP loans forgiven, bitch about and/or prevent others from getting help. It’s the hypocrisy that the PPP loans/forgiveness lays bare.
That’s my take on it, anyway.
BR
Harris campaign got an endorsement that I bet we won’t hear much about:
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2024-09-25/top-muslim-voter-organization-endorses-harris-as-middle-east-conflict-escalates
Super Dave
@HumboldtBlue:
Mr. Pierce has a pretty good explainer today:
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a62358812/jack-smith-jan-6-trump-evidence/
Jeffro
Jackals, I was tied up all day today but I read the Edsall piece very early this morning, and I have to tell you, I hope everyone gives it a read through when they have time.
(gift link)
It was very insightful on multiple levels and doesn’t excuse the MAGAts for their obvious racism, not one bit.
and also
they primed their base to hate, hate, hate…they took the easy way out…and it devoured them. Now the whole country has a mess on its hands. (And during really good economic times, too! I worry what would happen if the economy went bad and stayed there, or if we had another pandemic)
Anyway, as I mentioned, it’s a really good piece. I highly recommend folks read the whole thing.
different-church-lady
I’ve been beating up on Campos a lot lately, so it’s only fair that say this one of his was really insightful and worthwhile. If only he’d stick to this kind of thing…
JPL
@TBone: Has Betty C weighed in. Hope she is safe.
Personally I am doing a chant saying go to Bama, Go to Bama. Even though they still hope that it’s a tropical storm when it comes through the Atlanta area, they are talking about 60-80 mile an hour wind gusts and 5 to 10 inches of rain.
cckids
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Love it :) I’m reminded of an old (Far Side?) cartoon; the guy gets to heaven & God is a dog, who says “Well, considering you’ve been spelling my name backwards forever . . . “
WaterGirl
@One of the Many Jens: That’s my issue, too. They begrudge student loan forgiveness but they took a couple million dollars of free PPP money.
Doug R
@Baud: The (lack of) comment threading contributes to it I fear.
TBone
@JPL: we heard from Betty Cracker in the very early morning post, I believe she said she is not in the path. Even so, I’m doing the Safety Dance for her and you and everyone else!
TBone
28 minutes to tonight’s VP Harris interview! I am stoked.
Omnes Omnibus
@Doug R: Don’t fucking start!
Aziz, light!
@karen marie: fwiw, my closest co-worker for 20 years, a black woman now in her 60s, is a devout Witness who told me that she had never voted because all such outcomes are “God’s will.” I don’t know how widely that notion may be held.
JPL
@TBone: Thanks! I’ll be fine. The biggest problem for me will be the number of trees that come down, and how long will I be without power.
gene108
@BR:
Doesn’t bother me one fucking bit.
I’d rather fraud slide than setup something like the ridiculous fucking hoops to jump through to get SSI or SSDI, so no fraud gets through.
Most people who apply for disability are denied.
I’d rather see government programs run where a low tolerance for fraud doesn’t lead to strict rules that disqualify too many people, and creates a subset of lawyers who specialize in filing disability claims.
There were more businesses that were honest in their loan forgiveness applications than those who cheated.
different-church-lady
@HumboldtBlue: They don’t even bother with the masks anymore.
Sister Golden Bear
@Scout211: ‘Course Roan had to shit on the Dems while passively aggressively saying she’d vote for Harris. Maude save us from horseshoe leftists.
K-Mo
@BR: Geez if you’re that adverse to the NYT you could always read the scholarly works Edsall synthesizes
https://preprints.apsanet.org/engage/api-gateway/apsa/assets/orp/resource/item/66f18d0a51558a15efe26fde/original/popular-reactions-to-donald-trump-s-indictments-and-trials-and-their-implications-for-the-2024-election.pdf
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2352250X19300764
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-political-science-review/article/need-for-chaos-and-motivations-to-share-hostile-political-rumors/7E50529B41998816383F5790B6E0545A
John S.
@karen marie:
@Aziz, light!:
JWs are strictly apolitical. It’s a central tenet of their faith not to be involved with the “kingdom of men”.
Omnes Omnibus
@Sister Golden Bear:
To be fair, she is too young to remember 2016. Let alone 2000.
prostratedragon
@wjca:
🎼🎶Nothing says loving like …
CASH!
Doug R
@Chet Murthy:
That’s the price of the intel Trump “gave” to Russia. Although I’m sure the Saudis got some Israeli intel as their cut for laundering Putin’s money.
BR
@gene108:
I don’t think it’s either or. Trump’s cabinet was super corrupt. I think universal policies without a bunch of hoops are great, when administered with some minimal checks and balances.
CaseyL
@John S.:
That’s interesting. Paleo-Catholics talked some during the Obama years about giving up on society and retreating to their own enclaves.
Then Trump came along and they realized they could actually ride his train of fascism to political power, and they were all in. No more talk of retreating to a Godly village.
So it’s interesting to me that JWs aren’t going that route. I’m not keen on them as a religion by any means, but at least they seem sincere in their belief about staying out of politics.
Doug R
@Omnes Omnibus: I know. I like the posts here, but the vast majority of my pithy remarks appear to be unnoted.
different-church-lady
@Doug R: 👍
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: Was that a pity thumbs up?
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: Pithy, not pity.
jonas
@delphinium: Yeah, Mississippi’s annual performance review isn’t going to go well…
BR
Anyone watching the Ruhle Harris interview?
John S.
@CaseyL:
Sadly, I know many JWs that are fans of Trump (which really makes no fucking sense whatsoever), but they would never bring themselves to vote for him.
Political participation is verboten.
Chief Oshkosh
@geg6: Every five years? For every employee? Did any of these Einsteins calculate how much effort by how many people this would take?
We have similar “initiatives” going on at one of my places of employ. I assume these “initiative” ideas are making the rounds at various HR conferences. Just more work for the people who actually get things done.
Meanwhile, it takes over 8 months to vet and hire for ANY position in the organization, the loons in Payroll keep fucking up simple compensation, and the top level managers have decided to show an interest by spot-checking various groups with surprise drop-by visits.
Sister Golden Bear
@WaterGirl:
Yep, it’s the absolute hypocrisy that I have a problem with. But that’s consistent with their “subsidies for me, but not for thee” hypocrisy about so many other things.
scav
@Aziz, light!: “never voted because all such outcomes are ‘God’s will’.”? Well, assume she never bothered her god with personal prayers trying to influence other things in her favor and never ordered her dinner selection off a menu but just left all that — including her choice of clothes in the morning — to his direct will. I’m not sure she could touch the steering wheel with that purity logic. Hit the accelerator, lean back and let him take the wheel!
karen marie
@John S.: Want out of jury duty? Tell them you’re a Jehovah’s Witness.
That being said, I frown severely on people who make shit up to get out of jury service. It’s every citizens’ duty. Suck it up.
David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch
lowtechcyclist
@Scout211:
I’m very glad to hear that, because all of a sudden I’ve gotten really into her music.
Chet Murthy
@karen marie: I agree it’s everybody’s duty, but …. the idea that I’m supposed to judge truthfulness by how …. -convincing- somebody is ? That’s insane. I’ve worked with enough salesmen in my life that I have a permanent allergy to voice-based persuasion. And since jurors aren’t allowed to figure out truthfulness using the tools that scientists use (assessing credibility in the relevant scientific community), it’s pretty difficult for me to see how I’m supposed to actually judge.
karen marie
@geg6: The “oven heating” light is permanently on even when the oven and all the burners are turned off, because the maintenance people are running around doing who knows what, but the new complex manager sent around a flyer announcing “free fruit” on Friday’s (“while supplies last!”). That same new manager fired the very competent landscaping company and hired a small one-truck, one-lawn mower company that has never heard of sharpening the blades on their lawn mower, so the grass that’s now overtaken by crab grass looks like home made shit, and they have no idea how to trim shrubs or pick up cuttings, so there are sticks with large thorns throughout the areas of crab grass.
It’s like every master of the universe – and of course the owner of my apartment complex believes he’s one of them – has decided to hire the stupidest motherfuckers available so they look smart by comparison. Except they don’t look smart, because they hired the stupidest motherfuckers.
I really do not understand how human beings got this far.
rikyrah
Another dead young woman. From an abortion ban.
This time in Indiana
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8R5tVpg/
Ruckus
@Chris:
there’ll always be a part of them that knows damn well that it’s all cosplay and bullshit.
I actually seriously doubt that. Because that would take someone who pays attention to others, it would take an information society that actually discussed it out in the open, rather than only on a rather liberal website.
There is nothing in it for them if they question their circumstances, especially out loud. They aren’t going to blow up the gravy train, and for sure they are not going to question why they get whatever they get out of the system. They may question why they don’t get more, but not that they deserve it.
Fair Economist
@TBone: Back in 2005 when Hurricane Dennis, a small Category 3 storm, hit the far western FL Panhandle, some areas of the Big Bend got over 10 feet of surge in spite of being 200 miles away. The shape of the Big Bend makes it vulnerable to very big surges from storms coming in the wrong way.
Some coastal counties have issued mandatory evacuation for the entire counties, even far inland, because of concerns that the surge may go many miles inland in some of the lowlying and swampy areas.
karen marie
@rikyrah: Republicans are fine with this.
Central Planning
@randy khan: It may have bipartisan support but the crazy courts ruled the USF an illegal tax: https://www.networkcomputing.com/network-infrastructure/fcc-s-universal-service-fund-fee-ruled-illegal-tax-in-blow-to-telecom-access-for-all
Again, they’ll probably vote against their interests, part gajillion.
Ruckus
@karen marie:
I really do not understand how human beings got this far.
Because not all that long ago, in the overall time of humanity, people had to know how to do things to survive. Now one can stay alive while doing nothing. It may not be a great life but it is breathing in and out. And this has really come along in the lifetime of people alive today. Like me. I’m an old and when I was born (late in the first half of the last century) very few single people got by while doing nothing. Mostly those with inherited wealth. Without that there were jobs that did not require a lot of skill but paid a minimum wage. And given the right circumstances with a couple of members of a household on the dole or minimum wage they could live. Not high on the hog but far better than living in an alley and sleeping on the ground.
Sister Golden Bear
@Omnes Omnibus: No, I realize she’s young (and seemingly immature), and she’s suffering from severe depression after going through life-wrenching changes and discovering the downside of becoming famous means you no longer can move through the world as a private person.
But she’s someone who identifies as queer, based her look on drag queens, and insists trans rights should be the most important issue for voters. So her “both sides are bad” pissy attitude is infuriating when there’s only party that’s actively working to eradicate me and my kin. Lotta other ways she could’ve played it, including “I’m just a musician, so I think people should make their own political decisions, but take a look at what each party is doing to help and hurt people.”
Elizabelle
@geg6: Applause, applause, applause.
Albeit. That is kind of what we did to the Native Americans.
dm
@geg6: one of my employers has a five-year anniversary gift that was the sort of thing I don’t have a use for. So I never responded to the “select your color” message, as there was no “thanks, but no thanks” option.
They would remind me, monthly, that I hadn’t picked it up, yet, until I left the company a couple of years later.
Sister Golden Bear
@Ruckus: I disagree. Otherwise us coastal elites wouldn’t be living rent free in their heads with our supposed ongoing distain for them.
I’m not sure if they could handle the reality that’s it’s an unrequited hate affair because usually we don’t think about them at it (aside from political junkies like us).
Glory b
@karen marie: My understanding, based on a few distant relatives who are Witnesses, is that they are admonished to NOT participate in politics in any form, including voting.
Matt McIrvin
@Elizabelle: It’s what the Nazis did to the Jews. If the only way to avoid a genocide is to do a genocide, I think I’m out, I give up.
206inKY
I’m kind of with Josh Marshall in thinking GOP support might be way lighter than we realize, especially with outsourcing GOTV to super PACs.
In my corner of KY, Harris signs outnumber Trump at least 4:1. Obviously won’t be that ratio in votes, but still. Also many of the Trump yards are totally bonkers: like 5 signs in one yard plus Trump flag and homemade signs.
Baud
@206inKY:
🤞
Tony G
@Baud: Some people are just shit people, sad to say. But it’s probably more common than that. I’ve known a variety of people who have a far-right ideology with all that that entails (racism, misogyny, hatred of immigrants, etcetera) who are nevertheless “nice” in everyday life and “intelligent” in everyday activities. Most likely certain members of the SS were also “nice” and “intelligent”.
WaterGirl
@karen marie:
On another level, I have to take issue with “just 11% nationwide” as if it’s perfectly normal in a first-world country for the mortality rate to rise 11%!
It should only be going DOWN.
Bill Arnold
@TBone:
Water is warm on the project storm track.
Coastal Water Temperature Guide (NOAA)
An animated map
catclub
@WaterGirl: I looked at the article and am very puzzled. For[the first chart of texas statistics] black and hispanic women, the maternal mortality rate dropped substantially from 2021 to 2022. Is that a covid effect? Meanwhile it is rising every year from 2019 for white women.
artem1s
@geg6:
Ok, I thought the U I work for had done some pretty awful things to their employees. But man, that’s on par with George Costanza donating your Christmas bonus the the Human Fund.
Gloria DryGarden
@H.E.Wolf: I came back tonight to read this article. Thank you. I wish there were a way to help the 24% of women who get abortions, but are avidly anti choice. Esp those that return to anti-choice activism.
how do they not recognize it could be themselves and or people in identical situations, that they are condemning?
Doug R
@different-church-lady: Thank you
grubert
Great comments