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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Low Hopes for the VP Debate

Low Hopes for the VP Debate

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Low Hopes for the VP Debate

Welp,

NEW YORK (AP) — CBS News, hosting vice presidential candidates JD Vance and Tim Walz for the general election campaign’s third debate next week, says it will be up to the politicians — not the moderators — to check the facts of their opponents.

The 90-minute debate, scheduled for 9 p.m. Eastern on Tuesday in a Manhattan studio that once hosted the children’s program “Captain Kangaroo,” will be moderated by the outgoing “CBS Evening News” anchor Norah O’Donnell and “Face the Nation” host Margaret Brennan.

Vance comes off as far more coherent than Trump.  He’s smarmy and full of shit, but at least he can stay focused.  I trust Walz to do a good job, but there’s really only so much he can do if the debate is going to be like the first CNN debate, where the moderators just read off questions while Trump lied his ass off.  Also, Vance is desperate and without any moral core, and desperation will yield some pretty shocking shit.

Speaking of desperation, I’m sure that CBS is doing this out of a desperate desire to still be relevant, even though anyone who’s been paying attention realizes that national TV news is pretty much irrelevant to viewers who aren’t in the market for laxatives, statins and hemorrhoid cream.

In general, I have low hopes for any of our weak institutions.  This includes our federal criminal justice system, which is hopelessly infected with Trumpism from the top to all of the red state districts.

This doesn’t mean that I’m ready to give up — far from it.  What it means is that I don’t want to put energy into media criticism of the old, creaky, failing institutional press*, or into hope about the federal Trump prosecutions.  I’d rather see what’s happening on Bluesky, TikTok and other social media, where most of the voters who decide this election are getting their news.

What gives me the most hope is that the Harris campaign seems to realize that what Atrios would call “the celestial hall monitors” aren’t going to do shit for them, and are best ignored.  I do wonder whether it really matters that the Times or the Post is spending their time wishing and hoping and thinking and praying that Trump is elected.  The proof will be in the election, and I’m pretty optimistic that Harris is going to win despite the worst efforts of our weak and corrupted institutions.

——–

* I fully acknowledge that I won’t be able to break old habits, but it’s worth a try.

Reader Interactions

133Comments

  2. 2.

    trollhattan

    What could possibly go wrong?

    Walz will not walk into any traps but an event relying on participants who act in good faith will be ruined when one of them chooses not to.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    viewers who aren’t in the market for laxatives, statins and hemorrhoid cream.

    Reminds me I need to go to the pharmacy.

  4. 4.

    Suzanne

    Walz is apparently letting it be known that he is not a good debater. I don’t know if that’s an attempt at expectations management, or if he’s really not good at it.

    I probably won’t get to watch. We have a project interview on Wednesday.

  5. 5.

    Suzanne

    @Baud: I was in FL a couple of weeks ago for work, and all the commercials had lines like “this isn’t your father’s hair replacement!”  and “talk to your doctor about amyloid plaque”.

  7. 7.

    piratedan

    it’s one of those situations, why even have the ladies ask the questions?  You can just have it like a game show booth, each unable to see or hear the other, ask them the questions and just let them answer.  This isn’t a debate, without any moderation its just simultaneous campaign speeches writ large.

  8. 8.

    hrprogressive

    Yeah, I mean, the legacy MSM has been carrying the water for their corprofascist shareholders for…a long, long, long time now so.

    Outside of people who genuinely believe their own hype about being “gatekeepers” about what the public does and doesn’t deserve to know / those obsessed with their own influence and power (cough Nuzzi and her ilk, cough)…

    People like Katy Tur, Haberman, and too many others to name have been doing the bidding of the people above them who desperately want a Trump Reich either because they, themselves, are True Believers of the Theofascist Cause, or they more cynically just want the destruction of the federal government so they can reap the profits of not having regulations, a functioning judiciary, and so forth.

    I honestly agree that I think these legacy institutions aren’t actually going to convince anyone either for or against Harris or Trump, because those predisposed to Trump are already shunning these outlets for being insufficiently felicitous to the fascist cause…and those predisposed or likely to be swayed towards Harris aren’t even bothering with these dinosaur institutes, instead getting their news from Social Media, whether it’s TikTok (gag), Reddit, (Insert Twitter Clone Here), YouTube, or whatever.

    Harris and her team seem to recognize this which is why they aren’t rushing to give interviews with the legacy media, but are instead focusing on their digital game / rallies / meeting people where they are at.

    I feel a lot better about Team Democracy’s chances now than I did 3 months ago, but it’s hard to forget 2016 and/or it’s tough to believe that, after all is known now about Project 2025, the destruction of Roe, and the nazification of the Republican Party that the Democratic Party isn’t winning over voters 65/35 or greater.

    Hopefully, enough people will do the right thing.

    Without Biden, I feel this is more likely than it was before The Switch. But it’s not guaranteed.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    What it means is that I don’t want to put energy into media criticism of the old, creaky, failing institutional press*, or into hope about the federal Trump prosecutions. I’d rather see what’s happening on Bluesky, TikTok and other social media, where most of the voters who decide this election are getting their news.

    I would love it if younger voters finally took their rightful place in our citizenry.

  10. 10.

    Leto

    where most of the voters who decide this election are getting their news

    You’d think that this would cause a bit of soul searching on behalf of those institutions, but we’re here.

  11. 11.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    I honestly think Walz himself will do fine. I’m not too worried about him. He’s been an elected politician for about 20 years now and was a teacher for many years before that. I’m sure he’s been in debates before and I’m sure he’s prepped well and understands the assignment.

    I do think it’s a load of bullshit there won’t be any fact checking by the moderators. Credit where it’s due, ABC actually did a better than expected job on that

  14. 14.

    Princess

    Not too fussed either way. I don’t think VP debates matter much at all. Vance isn’t Palin or Quayle so we can’t hope for a face plant tv clip and Walz will do fine even if Vance do happens to run rings around him. Walz won’t come across either as an idiot or as a bad person and that’s all we need him to do.

  15. 15.

    steve g

    I think the NYT knows that most of their readers vote Dem, but they aren’t living off of the subscriptions anymore, and they need some big dollar GOP supporters to advertise and otherwise prop them up. Plus the publisher thinks his poop don’t stink, but that’s a different matter. They will continue to produce their rubbish, such as “Donald Trump sharpened his criticism on border security in a swing-state visit.”

  16. 16.

    BR

    @Suzanne:

    I think it’s a little bit of both. He doesn’t seem like someone who can spew talking points on command, which is sometimes what’s called for in a debate. Vance on the other hand can lie with ease.

    I think it’ll be a wash. The main risk for Walz is saying something that gets clipped by the *left* (horseshoe left) and used as a way to undermine his nice guy lefty image among young voters.

  18. 18.

    Kent

    All the Harris campaign can do is prepare Walz for the debate that will actually happen and not some theoretical debate that they might wish would occur but wont.

    They have shown uncanny competence so far in this campaign.  I’m pretty confident they are on this too, and are strategizing how to use the playing field that actually exists to their advantage.

    Vance is smarmy as hell and exceedingly unlikeable.  Walz is amiable and extremely likable. There are a lot of older folks who are basically Trump friendly but for whom Vance is a bridge too far.  The VP is basically the next president in waiting.  If the Harris campaign is successful they won’t worry so much about countering every idiotic Vance lie.  But rather make the focus on his utter unsuitability to be president.  Letting him lie up a storm in a flop sweat of weird INCEL type energy will help make that case.

  19. 19.

    SatanicPanic

    And anyway fact checkers are a “be careful what you wish for” type of thing anyway. Like if they announced “on hand to fact check we have Glenn Kessler…” I’m turning the TV off

  20. 20.

    BR

    One mistake the Harris campaign seems to have made after the Harris-Trump debate is not coming out of the debate blazing with a week of barnstorming rallies throwing it in Trump’s face every day. They could have but they didn’t. They did a few rallies but the campaign was pretty muted that week whereas Trump and Vance were screaming about pet eating multiple times a day.

    I keep hoping that the campaign is about to ignore the media and just go full on hope-change-joy-turn the page. The campaign easily has 7 major figures who can saturate the country with events: Harris, Emhoff, Tim and Gwen Walz, Barack and Michelle Obama, and Joe Biden. Trump and Vance have no surrogates.

  22. 22.

    cmorenc

    Keep in mind that Waltz’s skill-set as a teacher included ability to handle surly misbehaving dissembling teenage high school boys – which should give you all confidence in his ability to handle whatever tactical crap Vance tries to use.  Vance is the one who may be on edge trying to suppress his repellent asshole nature from popping out in his efforts to top-dog the debate.

  23. 23.

    David 🐝KHive🐝 Koch

    @Princess:

    Vance isn’t Palin 

    Damn. I was hoping he’d wink at the television audience repeatedly while wearing a tight pencil skirt.

  24. 24.

    Ksmiami

    I think Walz should stick up for Democratic values- that the purpose of governance is to make life better for everyone and Republicans only want to hurt people. It’s a stark contrast and a starker reality

  25. 25.

    Harrison Wesley

    If JDV starts lie-streaming, just keep coming back to the same point:

    V: Just this morning an illegal Haitian immigrant stole your puppy and had it for lunch at the job he DEI’d your kid out of before leaving early to cash the welfare check you paid for.

    W: Can you promise the American people tonight that you no longer particpate in fabric sex?

    V: Venezuelan cartels have turned every Colorado kindergarten teacher into a drug mule and a woke groomer.

    W: If you’re elected, do you formally commit to cushion celibacy for the length of your term in office?

    Coach vs. Couch.  Life is too short to watch this shit.

  28. 28.

    hrprogressive

    @Baud: ​
     

    The way things are going with the economy, the global rise of fascism, and the climate collapse, I honestly think this generational shift isn’t ever going to happen.

    The olds are going to cling to power until everything falls apart.

    That’s their plan, IMO.

  29. 29.

    Yutsano

    President Carter is trending on The Artist Formerly Known as Twitter. My heart almost stopped but it turns out his 100th birthday is Tuesday and President Biden sent him a birthday wish. My God wouldn’t it be something if he turns out to be the deciding vote in Georgia?*

    *I haven’t read the blog today so apologies if this has already been covered.

  31. 31.

    West of the Rockies

    SNL painted Walz as an affable lightweight, Vance as a somewhat victimized, awkward dude.  Is that the normie view?

    I bet far fewer people will watch the VP debate and that it will have minimal impact.

  32. 32.

    Ivan X

    Nobody gives a shit about VP’s — Biden may have been an exception because of his age in 2020, and Trump may be an exception this year for the same reason. Palin exposed herself as a stupid idiot, but that reflected poorly on McCain’s judgment, back when people sort of expected Presidents to be serious people, more than I think there was actual Palin panic. Everyone already knows who Trump is, and knows he has no judgment, and knows he unserious, so there’s nothing to diminish by Vance simply exposing himself as a scumbag.

    If Vance “beats” Walz in the debate, it will move the needle zero. All Walz has to do is not gaffe, and not appear intimidated (he could just appear indifferent, and that would be fine), and none of this will matter. And, we can hope that Vance’s arrogance gets the better of him and he says something actually odious. It could happen, and Trump’s age could make it more of a factor than it might be otherwise.

    I’m probably going to skip it; I’m kind of expecting about what mix is.

  33. 33.

    Scout211

    Since the media has glommed onto the story that Walz is worried that he’ll let VP Harris down by a weak debate performance, I give you an alternative version from AP News two days ago.

    MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — Democratic vice presidential candidate Tim Walz knows how to lean into abortion rights on the debate stage. He’s done it before.

    Just ask his Republican opponent in the 2022 Minnesota governor’s race, Dr. Scott Jensen, who was on the receiving end of Walz’s attacks — and saw firsthand how effective Walz could be in exposing an opponent’s shifting positions on abortion.

    Jensen’s experience two years ago could provide insight into what to expect Tuesday when Walz debates GOP vice presidential candidate JD Vance on CBS. Jensen said in an interview that Walz would be smart to talk about abortion.

    He’s debated before and did well before.  As some articles have said, his advisors are recommending he debate Trump and Trump’s policies and just ignore the crazy, creepy, weird guy next to him.

    I personally am not expecting or looking for a big win, just for Walz to be himself and talk to voters about what the Harris presidency will look like.

    And as for how the media scores the debate?  I really don’t care, do u? 

  36. 36.

    hrprogressive

    @Baud: ​
     

    I mean, if I had my way, “The Youngs” would have gone on a General Strike and stopped all economic activity years ago until “The Olds” got out of power, but that hasn’t happened, and I don’t see it happening, soooooo.

    Not sure what better ideas are out there.

  38. 38.

    Steve LaBonne

    @West of the Rockies: The fact that arguably the most progressive- and very successful- governor in the country is regarded by the terminally savvy as a lightweight tells you everything you need to know about the terminal unseriousness of American politics.

  39. 39.

    wjca

    @Princess: Vance isn’t Palin

    Specifically, he’s less likable.  Which will probably show.

    Especially if he tries to seem like a normal person.  The contrast to Walz will be stark.

  42. 42.

    H.E.Wolf

    I can use my energy to worry about the debate for the next few days… or I can use my energy to get some small, concrete tasks done. (The really talented among us can do both at once, but I’m not one of them.)

    Political volunteering, or scrubbing the bathroom – either way, it accomplishes something useful.

    With that in mind, I just started a load of laundry*, and I’m about to sit down and write some postcards.

    *I awarded myself 100 bonus points for retrieving the empty container of stain-remover from behind the washer, 4 feet straight up, with a piece of duct tape on the end of a long stick. :)

  45. 45.

    laura

    I hope Tim Walz will point and laugh at the couch fucker as frequently as necessary- just break the 4th wall and speak directly to the viewing public about the tomfoolery and obfuscation and then just get on with the message that the future lies with Harris Walz and the past belongs to the hot orange mess and his multi-level marketing grifts. If he wants to remind viewers- there’s ample evidence that couch fucker hates trump and continued to hate him until his owner decided JD could be the perfect useful tool.

  49. 49.

    waspuppet

    HowTAF do you look at the first presidential debate, then look at the second presidential debate, and say “Yeah—that first way is the way we want to go.”

    I mean, yeah I know, but FFS.

  50. 50.

    Chief Oshkosh

    We can say all we want that the MSM doesn’t really matter at the stage of the game, but the blunt truth is that it was largely the MSM that chased Biden out of the race. That CBS is announcing that they are not going to fact check tells me that the media has one goal: bury Walz and maybe drag down Harris a bit.

    There is not a damned thing we can do about it except talk our Nervous Nellies off the ledge and remind our EEyores that the sun’ll come out tomorrow come Wednesday morning and for the rest of the week.

  51. 51.

    wjca

    @West of the Rockies: I bet far fewer people will watch the VP debate and that it will have minimal impact.

    Clips from the debate, splashed across social media, may be a different story.

    Mostly, VP candidates haven’t mattered in the past.  But Vance keeps saying things that give the Harris campaign great material to use.  He’s been the gift that keeps on giving, and may provide more material here.

  54. 54.

    zhena gogolia

    @Chief Oshkosh: Walz is vigorous and articulate (has no speech impediment and is 20 years younger than Biden). Vance is a black hole of charisma (I am disgusted by Trump, but he has a kind of charisma that works on a lot of people). I doubt that this will be like the first POTUS debate.

  57. 57.

    Tony G

    Vance is actively repulsive.  It’s like he’s trying his best to be as repulsive as possible.  As for American “journalism”, it has always been shit, but it’s been markedly shittier in the Trump era.

  59. 59.

    Scout211

    @Chief Oshkosh: it was largely the MSM that chased Biden out of the race.

    IMHO, if the Democratic Party leaders were behind Biden with vigorous support and pushback, the media’s relentless “he’s old and feeble” stories would not have had as much of an impact.

  61. 61.

    Baud

    @Scout211:

    He might not have been convinced to step out, but the media would have stayed relentless. Just like with the economy. No reason except for the media that voters realize by now how much better Dems are than Republicans.

    ETA: there may come a day when Dem voters can stand up to the media, but today is not that day.

  63. 63.

    wjca

    @Tony G: Vance is actively repulsive.  It’s like he’s trying his best to be as repulsive as possible.

    But then, consider how creepy he comes across when he tries to pretend that he’s not repulsive.  Epic fail.

  65. 65.

    Ishiyama

    I’ll go out on a limb here and predict that Vance will bomb. Tim Walz won’t even have to focus on him; just stick to the campaign talking points. Remember how he handled Dana Bash.

  67. 67.

    Matt McIrvin

    I’ve already noted that I think Vance will probably “win” this debate on points, as determined by our weird and hidebound media, but it might not matter much.

  68. 68.

    Betty

    @rikyrah: I am guessing they are afraid of the Trumpers coming down hard on them the way they did to the ABC anchors. Too bad. That doesn’t excuse failing to do the job properly.

  69. 69.

    matt

    Walz will prep, and will script some moments where he tees off on Vance. He’ll need to do a good job of fighting back when Vance comes at him, but he can fall back on likability when it’s too hard to beat whatever arguments Vance is making. He will either get a draw or a win with viewers. Media is desperate to appear fair though, so they’ll call those either a loss or a draw

    Walz is good at mocking and attacking, so he won’t just get stomped.

  72. 72.

    gene108

    Since the CBS talking heads aren’t going to moderate at all, I’m curious how far beyond what’s “acceptable” in demonizing non-whites can Vance put out without getting a reaction.

    He just straight up calls for a race war, the burning of synagogues, black churches, and non-white owned businesses.

    Would the talking heads* asking questions interject themselves into the debate or just go “next question” or “Gov. Walz, you opponent has called for a race war to help struggling rural white areas, how would a Harris administration look to help these areas?”

    *Trump once again worked the media to give him what he wanted, not even minimal fact checking to Vance’s fire hose of lies.

  74. 74.

    gene108

    @matt:

    Biden’s most memorable debate line from 2020 was “will you shut up man”.

    It worked because the way to deal with Trump or Vance’s firehose of lies is to be utterly dismissive of them as serious people.

  79. 79.

    stinger

    @gene108: ​
     Walz should just look directly at the camera, say, “I know, and you know, that that’s a lie. Here’s the truth.” And go on and say what he wants to say. Every time. All evening long.
    Repetitive, yes. But that’s how you drill something into people’s heads. Republicans lie, Democrats tell the truth.

  81. 81.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @zhena gogolia:

    I doubt that this will be like the first POTUS debate.

    I sure didn’t mean to impart that I thought that the VP debate is going to be the same as the POTUS debate. Possibly my writing skills are deficient (I am on only the first martini, so hope springs eternal and all that rot).

    My point is that the MSM still has put-lenty of power, as witnessed by them running Biden out of the race. It’s silly to try to convince ourselves otherwise. Separately, CBS (the MSM) is signaling that they are motivated to drub Walz, and will maximize the potential for material to support that, by refusing to fact-check. The Biden/Trump and VP debates don’t have to be similar at all in terms of what actually happens in the VP debate for this to be true.

  82. 82.

    karen marie

    @trollhattan:

    an event relying on participants who act in good faith

     

     

    Fact not in evidence. I would argue that there are two reasons for the “journalists” not fact checking. One, CBS will get far more mileage out of the public fact checking after the fact. And two, they’re afraid of Republicans.

  86. 86.

    RevRick

    If I were handing out advice to Walz, I’d tell him to troll Vance every chance he got by pointing to him and saying, “He’s Mr. Project 2025. He’s praised it. He owns it. It’s their playbook.”

    Lather, rinse, repeat.
    And if the moderators protest, “But what about your plans?” Walz can respond, “VP Harris has shared her plans. Why weren’t you listening?”

  87. 87.

    zhena gogolia

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    My point is that the MSM still has put-lenty of power, as witnessed by them running Biden out of the race. It’s silly to try to convince ourselves otherwise.

    I agree with you there. I just think they’ll have less to work with this time.

  92. 92.

    TBone

    I’ma go make chicken piccata and squawk loudly.  Because VP Harris Debate Two would go over like J Divans at Primanti’s.

    Adding some white whine too.

    😎

  93. 93.

    Baud

    @Bex:

    And Pete Buttigieg is playing Vance in Walz’s debate prep

     
    And now we know why God sent Pete to McKinzie. To learn the ways of the swarmy rich.

  97. 97.

    K-Mo

    @Harrison Wesley: My expectation is that Vance will throw out a bunch of direct attacks on Walz (DUI, stolen valor, etc) and try to throw the coach off like MVP did to Donvict.

    And the coach will not take the bait.  End result : nothing burger with a side of Skubal

  98. 98.

    cain

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Oh, but there will be a snag. If Vance does too good of a job it will trigger Trump’s narcissism and he’s going to be mad if he feels like he is being eclipsed.

    In fact, if in fact there is a win – the Kamala Harris campaign should just start talking about how much JD Vance did better than Trump did. That Trump should come back and debate a second time to show him up.

  100. 100.

    H.E.Wolf

    @stinger: ​
     Thank you!

    My dad gets part of the credit, because my stick-and-duct-tape routine is adapted from his childhood in NYC, when he and his friends would retrieve dropped coins from the storm drains with some nice sticky chewing gum on a long piece of string….

  104. 104.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @Leto:

    We saw in the recent Haberman interview that they don’t do soul searching or reflection. Toward us Democrats, they do condescension and scorn.

  105. 105.

    Matt McIrvin

    @stinger: I’ve noticed that the scariest “Trump is winning!” stories we hate the most and treat as signs of epistemic corruption in the media are the same ones the Harris campaign uses to fundraise from their most generous supporters. Almost 100% correlation. But there’s usually a lag of a week or two.

  106. 106.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @waspuppet:

    HowTAF do you look at the first presidential debate, then look at the second presidential debate, and say “Yeah—that first way is the way we want to go.”

    Republicans didn’t complain about the first one, so they are going with that format.

  108. 108.

    Frankensteinbeck

    I am assuming that Walz does not have the skill to bait Vance the way Harris baited Trump, and Vance is probably not nearly as manipulable.

    So, the big questions are whether Walz can stay friendly and on message, which seems likely, and whether Vance will be able to wear a mask over his incredible awfulness.  We’re absolutely not going to get the home run of the Harris/Trump debate, but we have good odds of painting a nice contrast of lovable coach Walz and creepy fucking weirdo extremist Vance.

  113. 113.

    Scout211

    For your enjoyment, Rex Huppke  at USA Today has some thoughts:

    Comrade Kamala Harris gave an economic speech in Pittsburgh on Wednesday, and let me tell you, it was light on the two things I demand out of a serious leader: rambling stories that have nothing to do with the economy and rabid xenophobia.

    Harris wasted my time by using her speech to detail a plan and vision for the American economy, promising things like a middle-class tax break for more than 100 million Americans that includes $6,000 for new parents during the first year of their child’s lives; working with builders to add 3 million more homes to the market, bringing home prices down, and helping first-time home buyers with $25,000 in down payment assistance; and doubling the number of registered apprenticeships while eliminating degree requirements for federal jobs.

    Oh yeah? Well, what about the damn battery-powered boats that keep sinking and the people getting eaten by sharks, huh? What about the fact that GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump has told me, and Fox News host Sean Hannity has confirmed, that America is a dystopian, third-world hellhole and the only way to fix it is to yell “TARIFFS!” as loud as possible?

    What, Madam Vice President, do you have to say about the late, great Hannibal Lecter? No answer? It figures.

    Shortly before Harris took the stage in Pittsburgh to speak with highly suspicious clarity and compassion, Trump was in North Carolina showing REAL AMERICANS how it’s done.

    Trump, under a banner that read “JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!”, showed us his plan to boost the economy by being mad that former President Barack Obama won a Nobel Peace Prize, promoting his nearby golf course and suggesting that the Iranians want to kill him because he might harm their furniture-export operations

  119. 119.

    thruppence

    The Harris / Walz team is running a lot of ads in Colorado media, and we’re not even a swing state. They must be blanketing the country.

  120. 120.

    Kathleen

    @zhena gogolia: Someone tweeted a screen shot of a NYT article which referred to Vance as Trump’s new “apprentice” and how Trump has become a father figure for him.

  123. 123.

    Jackie

    @Miki: Nope. Seahawks fan here. I have no skin in this game – other than wanting the Vikings to go 3-1 vs 4-0 😊 But y’all won.. 4-0 Vikings!

  124. 124.

    KatKapCC

    I hate the press. And I hate them even more because they think they matter when 99% of them don’t matter one single bit. Useless wastes of skin.

  125. 125.

    hitchhiker

    I predict that we’ll all see Tim Walz display — really for the first time — his intelligence as applied to policy he’s thought about for a long time, and managed to implement when given a chance to do that.

    We already know he’s kind and funny and human. But I listened to him doing a long interview with good old Ezra Klein some months back, and the guy is really the whole package. I’m going to watch.

    Vance has decided that being a tool is the only ticket available to him. He’s going to be a tool — by making fun of Walz’s service record, by saying that Democrats enjoy murdering infants, by claiming that Harris wants immigrants to flood the streets of every small town, etc. Will it matter to anybody that he does so in complete sentences, without screaming?

    If it does, okay. Walz will be speaking in complete sentences too. In that sense, it could be a wash … but my guess is that Walz again manages to surprise the all-important talking heads, and that will matter.

  130. 130.

    Geminid

    @Ksmiami: As a politician, Vance is green as grass. He may be able to prepare well enough to mask that over the course of the debate though, so I don’t think he’ll wipe out.

    But Walz ought to be able to score points against Vance and his obnoxious boss. Vance’s own public statements offer Walz several good lines of attack. I wonder if Vance has proposed any Social Security “reforms”? Of so, that could be a very good issue for Walz to pound.

  132. 132.

    Ohio Mom

    I was appalled when Vance became my Senator but I didn’t have a clue about how appalled I would be when he joined Trump. It turns out there is no limit to how appalled he makes me.

    And I ridiculously feel somehow responsible for foisting him upon the entire country even though I didn’t vote for him and his politics hurt me just as much as anybody else.

  133. 133.

    Msb

    @BR: trump is still scratching his narcissistic injury from the debate at every rally. Nobody can forget how badly he was Harrised when he keeps reminding them.

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