When I moved to the UK back in 2005, Tony Blair was still the prime minister. He’d managed to unite the country in contempt—a contempt richly deserved thanks to his role as handmaiden to the U.S. invasion of Iraq. A friend wrote to me at the time to ask, “What is the deal with British politics? How do you know who the good guys are?”
I didn’t have an answer for him. Sometimes I still feel like I don’t.
Consider Sir Keir Starmer, now entering week 13 of his premiership. I’m not a socialist—as a Liz Warren Democrat, my positions and preferences don’t really match up completely with any political party over here, not even Sir Ed Davey’s Amazing Adventure Pals Liberal Democrats. Starmer’s dedication to cutting out and cauterizing the left wing of the Labour Party since taking power in 2019 frustrates and disappoints me—again, as a Warren Democrat, I like Big! Structural! Change!, and he’s not offering that. I have, let’s say, carefully curated my expectations for this government.
However, I don’t yet feel the searing, white-hot rage others do toward Starmerite Labour. Maybe I’m missing something. Maybe I haven’t been paying attention properly; maybe I don’t have the same deep, tribal feelings as the natives do about the political parties here. Maybe it’s because I recognize the tenuousness of his mandate—Labour won with 33.7% of the vote this year after losing with 32.1% in 2019. Any government elected under those circumstances will likely tread cautiously, and Starmer, a lawyer, seems like a temperamentally cautious man to begin with.
Still. I hoped that he and Labour would at least be able to show the country—a country exhausted by the petty infighting, gloomy outlook, and obvious corruption of the Tories—that even in the wake of Johnson, Truss, and Sunak, serious leadership was still possible.
So far, it looks like even that was too much to ask.
Out of the gate, things looked promising. There were some good (and even potentially great) appointments to the cabinet and to other posts in government. Following this summer’s racist riots, courts moved swiftly to try and sentence criminals, in spite of the years of underfunding that have left the U.K.’s criminal justice system in dire straits. Some long-running labo(u)r disputes were swiftly solved within days of the new government getting in.
But then came the gloom: Starmer gave a very dour speech about how the new government had discovered a previously undisclosed £22 billion “black hole” in the nation’s finances. And Sir Keir’s proposal for closing this hole? Cutting the winter fuel payment given to some of the nation’s wealthier pensioners. Pensioners! I don’t care what country you’re in: you do not fuck with old people’s money! At last week’s Labour conference, the trade unions registered their anger at the proposed cut with a non-binding vote demanding a U-turn from the government.
There was also petty infighting: apparently, upon entering the government, Starmer gave his chief adviser Sue Gray a modest raise in pay. This put her salary up to £170,000 per year (about $228,000 USD), or just over £3,000 more than Starmer earns himself. For whatever reason (it’s misogyny, that’s the reason), this became a massive “scandal.” To be fair, it is a little weird that this adviser earns more than the PM, but a large part of the reason this story seems to have taken off in the media is because the tip came from disgruntled leakers within Labour. Leaks, the journalist’s catnip! Could Starmer hold his own party together? the political reporters wondered. Was he already losing the plot?!
Finally, there’s the freebies. At the start of this month, some journalist at one of the big papers finally got through his back issues of the venerable satire/muckraking news magazine Private Eye, and noticed that, for several months, they’d been reporting about some eye-opening line items in Sir Keir’s expense disclosures. Turns out that since ascending to the head of the party in 2019, Starmer had accepted and disclosed more than £100,000 in gifts, hospitality, and other goodies, including clothing for his wife and lots of tickets to see Starmer’s favourite club, Arsenal F.C. This all seemed deeply hypocritical, even if it was legal and a matter of public record.
Starmer’s pitch to the nation was a different, above-board way of doing things. A government that owed nobody any favours. And, to be fair, it does seem that he did everything in line with current legislation and that nobody who gifted him anything received special consideration as a result. (Compare this to Boris Johnson, who relied on a party donor to pay for his expensive renovation of the PM’s residence, and then failed to declare that.)
Still, Starmer had to know. He had to know that this was a big stack of cut grass, and that the press would have their pitchforks ready for the hay-making. I’m just another immigrant living in Birmingham, but even I understand that the U.K. media is even more vicious toward left-wing politicians than its U.S. counterpart. I knew it wouldn’t give Starmer any grace as he settled into office. And I knew that it would seize eagerly on the first possible weapon, and here we are.
Then, to top it all off, while delivering his keynote speech at the party conference last week, Sir Keir flubbed a line in the section of his speech addressing Israel and Palestine. Instead of calling for the “return of the hostages”, he said “return of the sausages.”
No, really. Watch:
It was hoped, in spite of everything, that Labour’s victory would be a new dawn for British politics. Instead it seems we’re all stuck inside the PM’s back-to-school anxiety dream, the one where you realize, while standing in front of the class, that you have no trousers on. They need to snap out of it: if Labour fails to deliver, lying in wait are not just the Tories, but far-right Reform, led by the odious fascist grifter Nigel Farage. Having them in power, even in coalition, would be a legitimate nightmare.
How does Labour get on a sounder footing? It’s hard to see a path. Starmer’s polls are in the toilet; he is currently less popular than Rishi Sunak was at the time of the election. It’s possible the publication of the budget on October 30th could restore some goodwill. That at least is what some of the journalists I trust seem to think:
Once the budget lands, Labour needs to flood the zone with successful policies. Right now there’s a vacuum and the Tories are filling it by pumping out these stories.
— Mark Chadbourn (@chadbourn.bsky.social) September 28, 2024 at 9:44 PM
However, Labour has ruled out borrowing to invest, in spite of the bind we’re in. More likely is that the Tory leadership fight turns uglier and therefore newsier, allowing the legal-but-icky largesse showered upon MPs to recede into the distance. (It helps that revisions to the rules are being hastily proposed.)
Either way, with a fixed five-year term stretching ahead of us, many here are trying to believe that things can only get better. It ain’t half hard, though.
Baud
The gifts are an own goal, even if legal. I understand the hostility to means testing, but it’s better than cutting off the poor. The rest of it seems nit-picky. But maybe I’m sensitive to how Dems get the brunt of it for having to clean up Republican messes.
lowtechcyclist
I realize Brexit is old news, but I’m assuming it’s changed the underlying economic terrain over there for the worse, making Labour’s job harder even if they were more confident and motivated.
Baud
One thing that might be popular is fixing the election system.
Scott P.
It seems like they haven’t ruled out borrowing to invest?
https://iandunt.substack.com/p/ok-so-what-the-hell-actually-is-labours
Baud
One good thing for them is they have 5 years rather the two the Dems have.
catclub
That is what Tony Jay is here to provide. Also disgust and contempt.
Rose Judson
@lowtechcyclist: Yes, Brexit is the background radiation affecting everything here. Starmer really doesn’t have lots of room to manuever politically. Any government under these conditions would be trying to swim with a ball and chain around their ankle and an anvil in their arms. The gift thing was like they decided to tie a hand behind their back.
Also, I went into the city center today, and I hadn’t realized the Tories are holding their conference here in Birmingham. That explains the clouds of bats over Centenary Square.
Rose Judson
@Scott P.: We really won’t know until the budget drops on 30 October. Hoping for a U-turn!
Gvg
@Baud: I noticed when Gore “lost” an election with the majority of the votes that the winners by some fluke have no incentive to “fix” the problem even if it might bite them someday.And a party who wins with that low a percentage of the voters is really hamstrung from doing anything fundamental. I could be wrong. I really really don’t understand how they elect people indirectly.
Sure Lurkalot
@Baud: Being in perma-election mode is definitely harmful. Always gauging a leader’s policy choices on how it will affect the next election not to even mention how our election “seasons” are years long instead of weeks.
Rose Judson
@Sure Lurkalot: The short general-election seasons here really are refreshing. As is the unquestioned commitment to a peaceful transfer of power.
scav
Do like Randy R’s new one Blank Space. Unexpectedly calming of all things, go figure.
As for the UK percentages, I’d be so rude as to suggest if we don’t understand the system, it might be premature to suggest solutions — especially as it’s multi-party.
catclub
well, where’s the fun in that? I am on the internet, therefore my opinion must be heard.
Tony Jay
@Rose Judson:
Ha! Der Starmerpartei hold their
blue-chip corporate get togetherParty Conference in the People’s Red Republic of Liverpool, while the Blue-Kippers hold theirs in one of the most culturally diverse cities in the country.It’s almost like they’re trolling.
HumboldtBlue
One of humanity’s most decent men has died far too young. Dikemebe Mutombo, NBA Hall of Famer but more importantly, a Humanity Hall of Famer for his work in his native DRC.
Baud
I don’t know what the rules are for electing individual MPs in UK. I don’t like any system that doesn’t have a way for a candidate to get over 50%, like we have here in the US in a lot of primary elections. The exception would be a proportional representation parliamentary system where electing individual candidates is secondary to voting for the party.
Tony Jay
@catclub:
In oceanic proportions. They demand it, and so it must be.
Anonymous At Work
Was the Israel/Palestine flub in proximity to talking about either the Northern Ireland/Irish border or relations with Australia? I honestly don’t know who takes the topic more seriously: Brits or Germans.
ArchTeryx
@Baud: A lot of it is first-past-the-post. They don’t need a majority, only a plurality. And gerrymandering was a thing in the UK LONG before it was a thing in the US – think “rotten boroughs.” A parliamentary system beats the U.S.’ by a mile, but it is far from perfect. Especially with the MPs elected, effectively, the same way as our House of Representatives is elected
First-past-the-post is the root of a LOT of our ills in Canada, the UK, and the U.S., though the U.S.’ electoral system has so many problems it tends to swamp FPTP.
Baud
@ArchTeryx:
Sincw we have a two party system, first past the post usually doesn’t prevent a candidate from getting more than 50% in a general election. That particular problem occurs more often in primaries.
HumboldtBlue
I have no idea how this will be enforced.
rikyrah
TrumpsTaxes (@TrumpsTaxes) posted at 9:00 PM on Sun, Sep 29, 2024:
“For you, Joe, I will do this.”
Everyone needs to watch this clip of how Joe Biden organized the release of Putin’s Americans and Russian political prisoners.
Imagine Trump attempting to do the same.
Allies matter. Trust matters. Leadership matters.
https://t.co/dPq3LsAAD4
(https://x.com/TrumpsTaxes/status/1840572491053285737?t=AX0BQF_sL3LDzyEH85WLlw&s=03)
Frank Wilhoit
Starmer is paralyzed with fear of the Press. I have been trying to explain why to my fellow Yanks, using the history going back to the first Lord Northcliffe, and it mostly doesn’t hit. Maybe you could take a shot at that. Do you think Angela Rayner would be any better?
TBone
John Oliver takes on disability benefits:
https://youtu.be/hq2s7RMRsgs
ArchTeryx
@Baud: But it allows third party spoilers to ratfuck elecrions. How many times did LePage get elected in Maine because of first past the post?
Baud
@ArchTeryx:
True. It’s relatively rare but it is a problem.
JML
Starmer and the current Labour Party seem to really struggle with message when it’s something more than just “We’re Not the Fucking Tories!”
the 22B undisclosed budget hole should have at least been a chance to flood the zone with “do you realize just how awful these people were?” stories for a week or three before settling down to dour stories about how they were going to fix the previous regimes disastrous fuckups. But they don’t seem to know how to do that?
ArchTeryx
And then there’s this. They always go after the disabled first when austerity comes knocking.
Rose Judson
@ArchTeryx: Don’t I know it.
Signed,
Mother of a Person with Autism
scav
@Baud: But what’s so magic about 50%, especially when about a package deal / candidate? Sure, when it comes to specific individual policies having closer to, especially full, majority backing is desirable. But insisting that we find in a party or party representative somehow works out that a lot of critical debate about options gets moved out of the actual legislature and into whatever takes the whim of party minions. And, the electorate gets presented with a mealplan one versus mealplan two and no à la carte options. Nit to suggest the UK or anywhere has it nailed, but two-party isn’t necessarily the be-all end-all.
ArchTeryx
@Baud: Considering it played a huge role in giving us 8 years of W and 4 years of Trump, it’s a MASSIVE problem. The electoral college tended to match the popular vote results until the Republicans weaponized First Past the Post.
Baud
@ArchTeryx:
The EC isn’t first past the post. If it were, those elections would have turned out well.
rikyrah
Melanie D’Arrigo (@DarrigoMelanie) posted at 7:20 AM on Mon, Sep 30, 2024:
Donald Trump’s mass immigrant deportation plan would cost taxpayers an additional $30B, leave huge holes in the workforce, and eliminate the ~$100B undocumented immigrants pay in taxes each year.
He will destroy our economy to protect his racism.
https://t.co/HjAZTrQsjM
(https://x.com/DarrigoMelanie/status/1840728548786503720?t=d7-nkUg0tACv2brZPINfXw&s=03)
Baud
@scav:
50% is the essence of majority rule. That’s why it’s the normal standard in most situations.
rikyrah
Greg Sargent (@GregTSargent) posted at 7:16 AM on Mon, Sep 30, 2024:
Let’s get real: CBS News declining to fact check the veep debate should lead us to conclude that Trump/MAGA bullying of the media is working. Only one side is threatening media for telling the truth.
On the pod, @AmandaMarcotte and I dig into all this:
https://t.co/F1bNlYpfAg
(https://x.com/GregTSargent/status/1840727293905322178?t=eNzj-NeERJlraEfuH_vrPA&s=03)
rikyrah
Melanie D’Arrigo (@DarrigoMelanie) posted at 10:42 AM on Sun, Sep 29, 2024:
The dark money group bribing SCOTUS Justices has a new case for them that they’re funding:
Targeting the US Consumer Product Safety Commission, wanting POTUS to be able to remove its members without cause and replace them with loyalists.
Straight out of Project 2025. https://t.co/241g9uqHDy
(https://x.com/DarrigoMelanie/status/1840416780918857995?t=Gudl4mHoUnabLw7mkK8A9w&s=03)
John S.
@Rose Judson:
The prospects for the neurodivergent are equally bleak here in the US.
Signed,
Father of an autistic son
ArchTeryx
@Baud: The EC itself isn’t. The individual state elections that assign electors ARE. Without FFTP, Gore wins Florida in 2000 and Clinton wins in 2016, albeit narrowly. And it almost cost Biden the election in 2020 as well, save for a few tens of thousands of votes in a few states.
ArchTeryx
@John S.: Tell me about it. As a neurodivergent adult, who lost his primary career because of bigotry against the disabled. Then had to go through 10 years of unemployed/underemployed hell because the moment the professional hiring managers got wind of my disability, the doors slammed shut every single time.
Omnes Omnibus
It is good to have another voice on British politics besides that of Tony Jay.*
*Sincerely, no offense to Tony Jay is intended. He is vigorous and colorful in his descriptions, but he comes very much from a particular POV. Sometimes I wonder to what extent his view Labour is akin to the view that hardcore Bernie Bros had of Democrats in 2015-6.
scav
@Baud: But I’m suggesting it may be best applied to individual policies, not all-inclusive party platforms. In a multi-party setup, it is more unlikely that 50% of the parties will choose to back say, uncontrolled full gun access, when it’s not actually that popular with the electorate. likewise, gay rights. In a two-party system, the party-boffins will likely chose opposite sides for electioneering reasons and so we all end up stuck with shit policies that never got fully argued out in the governmental arena.
Baud
@ArchTeryx:
I don’t understand your math. In the states that Clinton and Gore lost, the other side got more votes (as officially counted). There’s no system that would give those states to Clinton and Gore.
rikyrah
@flywithkamala
VP Kamala Harris said she tunes out those who question her Blackness and said those folks need to seek therapy. #AllTheSmoke![]()
![]()
![]()
*PRESIDENTIAL MIC DROP*![]()
https://x.com/flywithkamala/status/1840788079117820336
ArchTeryx
@Omnes Omnibus: All his nunulabourinc stuff? Yeah, that’s basically the same as an American referring to the Democratic party as neoliberal sellouts.
To be fair, the situation is somewhat different in the UK. Labour in the UK are effectively neoliberal sellouts, and the parliamentary system just aggravates the problem. The last election didn’t just shut out the Tories; it also froze out the Left as well, leaving the centre-right with an open playing field. And these days the centre-right in the UK may as well be called fascism-light. I can’t blame Tony Jay for being thoroughly disgusted with it all, albeit in far fewer words than he uses.
rikyrah
I fully expect for JoeyB to propose a huge infrastructure bill for the affected Hurricane areas, and daring the GOP to vote against it. To purse their phucking lips as to why it’s not needed.
kalakal
@Baud: MPs are first past the post.
I think there’s only ever been 1 govt that actually got a majority of the vote.
After an election the person who can ‘command a majority’ in the House of Commons is invited to “form a government”.
The US equivalent would be the Speaker with MPs being congress critters.
Unlike the US there are several parties rather than just 2 .
One huge difference is membership of parties is very small, Labour is the biggest with about 400,000.
Candidates for MPs are selected by a combination of the national party and local party members ( varies between parties) and the leader of the party by it’s members, MPs and in Labours case the Trade Unions. I’ve been to MP selection meetings where there were less than a 100 people for a constituency of a 100,000 people and normal meetings got around 30.
Basically most people can’t be arsed to turn out on a wet wednesday evening.
Baud
@scav: As I said above, if there’s a multi-party setup with proportional representation, then that’s an exception to the need to get >50%.
But whether you have a two-party or multi-party system, if a geographic area is selecting a candidate to represent them, then I think the system should provide some mechanism for that candidate to receive >50% of the votes from the electorate. In some primaries here with multiple candidates, you can have the winner winning with less than 40% support, or lower.
Rose Judson
@John S.: We are definitely better off over here while The Child is still school aged. She can stay in secondary ed until she’s 19, for starters.
Baud
@rikyrah: That would surprise me. The affected states are GOP states and presidential swing states. I don’t think Republicans are that stupid yet.
But that only means they give enough Republican votes to pass the House and get past the Senate filibuster. Plenty of Republicans may well vote against it.
Baud
@kalakal: Yeah, my understanding is that parliamentary systems generally have less democratic political parties (for good or ill).
rikyrah
Longtime Black Man Here (@groove_sdc) posted at 8:16 AM on Mon, Sep 30, 2024:
We need to change the dynamic of anti-government Republicans voting against federal aid for natural disasters who beg for money when one affects them, refuse to give credit for the Democratic administration that gave it to them and actively lie they were solely responsible for it
(https://x.com/groove_sdc/status/1840742540053463534?t=AZURta2_p12ZWB5Fyhfu_A&s=03)
kalakal
@Frank Wilhoit: This. Labour has, with very good reason, been terrified of the UK press for decades. The US MSM has nothing on the UK press when it comes to slanting political coverage
Barney
Using “sausage” for “hostage” comes from the (even more than Private Eye) venerable satire of English history, 1066 and All That.
“1066 and All That
A Memorable History of England, comprising all the parts you can remember, including 103 Good Things, 5 Bad Kings and 2 Genuine Dates
…
ERRATA
p. 11 For Middletoe read Mistletoe.
p. 17 For looked 4th read looked forth.
p. 50 For Pheasant read Peasant, throughout.
p. 52 For sausage read hostage.”
If he was a fan of that, it’d be great; but that speech was not the time to use it.
ArchTeryx
@Frank Wilhoit: That’s a huge difference between us and the Brits. Our media is rapidly losing influence to social media and word of mouth, for good or ill.
The UK media effectively is the veto on the entire government. They aim to be kingmakers every time and all too often they are. So no Prime Minister wants to go up against the UK media. People listen to them still, and they have a whole lot more street cred than ours does.
scav
@Baud: Ehhh, pish. Sure you can rig up something with ranked choice something or other, but that’s window-dressing.
ArchTeryx
@Baud: Ralph Nader and Jill Stein. That is all.
Baud
@scav: Yes, ranked choice is one way to get there. So are run-offs. There may be other methods I can’t think of. I don’t know what window-dressing means. If you prefer proportional representation, that’s certainly a reasonable position to hold.
Baud
@ArchTeryx: There’s no way to prevent a third party from running. Perhaps if the presidential election were ranked choice, Clinton and Gore would have gotten more second place votes and would have won, but given what we’ve seen from third party candidates and their voters since, even that seems questionable.
Tony Jay
@Omnes Omnibus:
None taken. I’m a proud dirty Lefty who really, really despises the backstabbing, short-termist, Murdoch-fluffing cretins and I don’t try to hide it.
I will just say that, at times, I feel like one of those Democratic pollsters who describe Republican policies to normie voters, only to be greeted with incredulous disbelief because no real-world political party could possibly be in favour of such insane garbage.
But it’s true, they really are that bad.
kalakal
@ArchTeryx: That’s a very good summation. The Labour party has always had vicious infighting between the left and the right, it even split in 1981 when 4 ex ministers left and founded the Social Democratic Party which eventually merged with the liberals. Sometimes, as in the early 80s the left are in the ascendant, sometimes as now the right. Both have tried to remove their opponents from the party
The current bunch in charge do seem to worryingly right wing, far more than Owen and co in the 80s
Blair, for all his faults, did achieve real social goals, lifting people out of poverty,funding the NHS etc , I want to see what the current bunch will do
Sure Lurkalot
@HumboldtBlue: Thanks for mentioning the legacy of Dikembe Mutombo. A heart as large as his physical size and talent, a purpose to serve, to be something bigger than himself. Truly sad to hear of his passing, may he be an inspiration to others.
Lacuna Synecdoche
Huh. I just assumed Starmer was hungry, that the talk of war reminded him of bangers, that the bangers put visions of sausages in his hungry mind, and, well, you know how it went from there Freudian slip-wise …
scav
@Baud: I just also think that in general, a good compromise usually ends up with everybody getting something they wanted, not getting some other aspect and being simultaneously happy and unhappy with it. 50%+n doesn’t necessarily capture that and fetishizing it can lead to binary thinking and worse, decisions being made in what I see as inappropriate political contexts.
ArchTeryx
@kalakal: Thank you. As a Yank I do try and follow political trends in other countries, for a wider view what’s going on with Western Democracy. And right now, the UK and the US both absolutely suck hairy goat balls at trying to maintain liberal democracy and the Rule of Law, and that’s why we in the U.S. are finally at the cusp. We win, we won’t get rid of the fascists, but they won’t be ascendant for a little while. The UK turned away from the actual fascists, but chose, in a dismal turnout election, fascism-light. Neither of us are covering ourselves in glory ATM.
Chris
@ArchTeryx:
This seems like a pretty good summarization of why those admonitions in the previous thread of “be careful! If you reject the mainstream media, you’ll end up in an echo chamber just like the Republicans!” fall flat with me.
So, instead of living in a bubble where reality is whatever Elon Musk and Rupert Murdoch (or their hypothetical left-wing equivalents that will never actually materialize) say it is, I can live in a bubble where reality is whatever the Sulzbergers and Jeff Bezos (or their British equivalents) say it is? Sign me up! And the result of that is going to be a government that’s completely incapable of passing good policy because everything it does is subject to the whims of a few power-mad lunatics with soapboxes? … and you’re telling me this is going to prevent us from becoming like Fox News era Republicans?
kalakal
@Lacuna Synecdoche:
I assumed he had memories of
Yes Minister.
Yes Minister 2
ArchTeryx
@Chris: At least the UK media, for the most part, is openly partisan. They don’t try to bullshit the normies into believing they are anything but they are. The exception is the Beeb, which seems to have gone the way that PBS did here – they sold out to the Right to save their own skins.
Lacuna Synecdoche
Rose Judson:
I can’t decide if the latter sentence is just a British-ism for “It’s really difficult, though” or – and this is no doubt my American temperament shining through – if it’s mildly slangy way of saying “Oi, he can’t get it up.”
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
I’ve got to agree with ArchTeryx on this one, at least with respect to 2000. If the Dems had picked up 1/3 of the Nader votes in NH, or an incredibly tiny fraction of the FL Nader votes via ranked choice, Gore would have won.
Alternatively, in a runoff, the FL voters who mistakenly voted for Buchanan due to the Butterfly Effect Ballot would have provided the margin of victory.
Spc123
@Gvg: it is FPTP – every riding winner is determined simply by the mot votes – there is no PR like most European countries. With 4 parties pulling 10% plus plus a few smaller ones – 33.5% can be a loss, a razor-edged win or a blowout depending on how those votes fall within the ridings – some UK voters are wise enough to vote tactically as well. Labour has a large seat margin but didn’t nab a huge overall vote share (which doesn’t matter besides optics) – Lib Dems had a comeback dues to some tactical voting and there were some protest candidates here and ther in heavy red wall districts (traditional Labour strongholds in the north ) that ate into the aggregate total nationally (for example, a Gaza protest candidate in a Newcastle riding that took almost 10% because the seat was safe).
Omnes Omnibus
@kalakal: Back in the Jurassic period when I was studying in London (1984), my Congress and Commons course professor arranged visits to the HQs of each of the four main parties. The SDP resonated with me. Labour was a more than a bit militant. The Tories were in post-Falklands, mid-miners strike, full Thatcher mode. And the Liberals seemed obsolescent.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud:
It happens pretty frequently in the popular vote in recent Presidential elections, because they’re always so nationally close that even the fringey third-party and independent vote can keep everyone below 50%.
…Well, OK, it happened in 2000 and 2016. And in Clinton’s wins because Perot was actually a quasi-major candidate in those years.
Baud
@scav:
Well, the elected reps still have to compromise with each other. First past the post doesn’t promote compromise.
Kosh III
“Starmer’s favourite club, Arsenal F.C.”
That is a dealbreaker–Go Liverpool!!!!!!!!!
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
Yeah, but that is my position, that someone should always get >50%.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
I thought the Perot factor was determined to be a wash.
kalakal
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s pretty much my recollection of that period
rikyrah
Josh Wurster
@joshwurster_
How cool! Mountain Mule Packer Ranch is taking supplies into the Carolina mountains via mule train with so many roads blocked and washed out. https://facebook.com/share/p/4E8qU5ZBgCus9PRY/
https://x.com/joshwurster_/status/1840733574980366557
elliottg
Sometimes we forget that many voters are deplorable people. Sure, politicians are often caricatures, but people know what they are voting for when they vote for a Trump or a Johnson. (And Tony Jay’s veneration of Jeremy Corbyn is worse, to me, than the Bernie Bro’s. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/jeremy-corbyn-urges-west-to-stop-arming-ukraine is just one example of my multiple problems with him.)
Omnes Omnibus
@kalakal: The Liberals did have the best offices. Sort of country house/men’s club, old furniture and threadbare Persian rugs.
kalakal
@Omnes Omnibus: I can believe it.
They have their factions, soft left and Libertarian (as in real old fashioned Liberalism) The latter were in the ascendency in 2010 which is why we ended up with that tool Cameron as PM. The SLD held the balance of power and went the Tories, at the next election the lost about 1/2 their MPs.
Ramalama
Just wanted to say the title to this post is so so so evocative. I want to use it in everyday conversation now.
We Are Sausages to Fortune
Is it a quote of something or did you make it up?
greenergood
RE: the cut in UK winter fuel funds for pensioners (senior citizens to you US folk) (i.e., £300 per annum): UK Labour Chancellor Rachel Reeves justified the winter fuel cut for pensioners by saying that the £pound would be threatened by devaluation, if Labour continued with the winter fuel grant. We pensioners are laughing in the midst of our loser tears, at such a ridiculous excuse. As the _very first_ budget cut by the ‘new’ UK Labour Gov’t, the winter fuel denial is a revelation of how they mean to go on – they’re now investigating how to get disabled/long-term unemployed people back to work, rather than any of them claiming any welfare/benefit – but amazingly, taxing the rich doesn’t seem to be on the menu – need to keep their donors sweet … how American!! ;-)
Geminid
@Ramalama: Sir Keir was talking recently about the war in Gaza and wanted to say something about releasing the Israeli hostages, but he said “sausages” instead of “hostages.” A true banger!
ET
The British media is even more in the tank for Conservatives and Reform than the US is for the GOP.
Chris
@Geminid:
That joke was the wurst.
Slightly_peeved
@Frank Wilhoit:
I’ll give it a quick go:
Imagine if the reporting people held up as the gold standard wasn’t the New York Times, but the New York Post.
If you aren’t his guy, you could walk across the Thames and the main headlines would be split between “PM CAN’T SWIM” and “CORRUPT PM AVOIDS CONGESTION CHARGE”. And every other news source is treated like it’s edited by Trotsky’s corpse.
The news discourse in Britain and Australia is openly and wantonly controlled by Murdoch, based on who pays obeisance to him. Former PMs from both sides of Australian politics have publicly called for investigations into it.
Slightly_peeved
@ArchTeryx:
Murdoch works the refs. The BBC (and ABC in Australia) are constantly criticised for left-wing bias, by the government of the day as well as right-wing media if the Tories are in.
Chris
@Slightly_peeved:
The main difference that Americans find it hard to grok, if I understand correctly, is that NewsCorp in America has always been a partisan actor, whereas NewsCorp in Britain is far less monogamous. So long as the politician bends the knee, they don’t care if he’s registered Labour or Tory.
Or at least, that’s how it’s been explained to me.
Did not know the way it worked in Australia; sorry to hear it’s another situation like Britain.
Slightly_peeved
@Chris:
The other difference is that it’s pervasive over here and in the UK, which is why politicians of both sides bend the knee. There are several different conservative old bastards to placate in the US, as far as i can tell, whereas in the UK and Australia there’s one dude.
Australia’s where it started, Rupert succeeding his father Keith in the newspaper/demagogue business. It started with the Adelaide News, for which News Corp is named.
Matt
LMAO, and monkeys might fly out of my butt
Just wait until he announces that they’re selling off the NHS for “efficiency”
Centrists like Starmer will hand the whole country over to the fascists before they’ll admit the hippies were even the tiniest bit correct.
Slightly_peeved
@Chris:
To add, I think the willingness to offer occasional qualified support to Labour/Labor is a matter of maintaining some credibility with the broader electorate. It generally happens when a Tory/Liberal candidate is so in the nose with the electorate that even he can’t save them and switching gives him some leverage with the incoming government.
I’m guessing that because the US is a much bigger and much more right-wing market, Fox does better by pandering to nut jobs than making concessions to reality.
Even then, Fox did call the election in 2020, though I suspect part of that was also Murdoch making clear to Trump who runs the show. That’s the other reason Murdoch’s willing to switch endorsement – to make it clear to the right wing who needs who.
billcinsd
@ArchTeryx: All of them, because everyone who wins in thhe US wins because of first past the post. Also Le Pages first gubernatorial win was the Dem ratfucking the independent
billcinsd
@JML: Starmer’s Labour is unlikely to fix the budget problem, as he says his economics are the new neo-liberalism so it is likely to be austerity rather than something that will work
billcinsd
@Omnes Omnibus: Why I am I surprised that a centrist doesn’t particularly care for a more leftist perspective. Wait I’m not surprised
billcinsd
@ArchTeryx: Stein had zero effect on the 2016 election. Nader was like the 4th largest reason Gore lost, Katherine Harris, SCOTUS and the 150,000 1996 Democratic Clinton voters who voted for Bush were all more important than Nader
Chris
@Matt:
Like I said in one of Tony Jay’s guest posts: it’s become increasingly clear in the last fifteen years that all over the West, the political center has decided to just drive the car into the ditch. Yes, they vaguely disapprove of fascism being back in power, but no more than they disapprove of the left being back in power. They’re not willing to hold their noses and support the left when the time comes in the same way they expect left-wing voters to hold their noses and support them. They’re not willing to take a hard look at their program and back off of its unpopular planks for now until the fascist threat has passed, the way they expect left-wing voters to back off of immigration, trans rights, whatever. They want fascism to stay out of power (although it’s increasingly unclear just what it is that they find bad about it, other than “it would mean someone is in power who isn’t us.”) They just don’t want it hard enough to work with anybody they don’t like, or give up anything they really want, or in any way inconvenience themselves or alter their behavior.