Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We will not go back.

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

Second rate reporter says what?

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

An almost top 10,000 blog!

No Kings: Americans standing in the way of bad history saying “Oh, Fuck No!”

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, door #2)

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

Celebrate the fucking wins.

Not all heroes wear capes.

“I was told there would be no fact checking.”

Weird. Rome has an American Pope and America has a Russian President.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

These are not very smart people, and things got out of hand.

“Alexa, change the president.”

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Did All the Undecided Voters Take a Stand Against Vance Last Night?

Did All the Undecided Voters Take a Stand Against Vance Last Night?

by | 114 Comments

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All the clips I’ve see show the if an undecided voter took a stand after watching last night, it did not go well for Voce.

Pretty sure Robinson is toast!

 

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

114Comments

  1. 1.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    WaterGirl: Pretty sure Robinson is toast!

    I had the same reaction [in the same words 😁]

  2. 2.

    Jeffro

    J6 and election denialism are deal-breakers (well, for 73% of the population, at least).  We should point that out more often.

    #VuckFance

  3. 3.

    Steve LaBonne

    Various polls are showing undecided voters (yes I know) and even 58% of Fox viewers giving Walz the win. We political junkies are totally unreliable guides to how events like the debate come across to normies.

  4. 4.

    Dangerman

    If Robinson is toast and NC goes Blue, TCFG is also toast. He will claim victory and say he was cheated and sell 100k watches, but other than a pile of arrests and a couple more Darwin Award winners like Ashli Babbit, it will be much fury signifying diddlyshit.

  7. 7.

    Juju.

    I live in NC and I have friends who live in Asheville and Black Mountain, and I’m only hearing of this non vote with the Lt. Governor now. All I have to say is wow, he’s worse than I thought, and I knew he was bug underbelly level low.

  9. 9.

    Dangerman

    @narya: The Dude Upstairs hit Righty areas hard, yelled bullseye, and ordered a round. They have drinks up there, right? I’m owed a few.

  11. 11.

    Nukular Biskits

    With reference to my reply to Baud in the earlier thread, WTF is still legitimately “undecided” at this point?

    Yeah, I know. I’m preaching to the choir and, here at BJ, arguably in somewhat of a bubble.  But I’m at a loss to understand how anyone can not have made a decision at this point.

  13. 13.

    cain

    @Dangerman: he will like that he sold over 10 million watches and shows that the nation approved of him and shows there is voter fraud.

    ETA

    And our worthless media will run to the Harris campaign and get their hot take ..

  16. 16.

    Jeffro

    @Dangerman:If Robinson is toast and NC goes Blue, TCFG is also toast.

    He’s toast, it will, and he’s toast too.  It’s gonna get called Nov 5th and I can’t wait!  =)

    I probably need to grab a bottle of Pedialyte for Nov 6th, now that I think of it…

  17. 17.

    eclare

    @narya:

    I asked in an earlier thread, I am doing postcards to swing states for NC.  Do jackals agree that I should add “I hope that you and your loved ones are safe”?

    Or is there better wording?  The cards don’t mention politics, so I can’t put vote D to save NOAA.

  20. 20.

    TBone

    @Jeffro: good advance planning, I’ma do that too.  I don’t drink but make exceptions when called for and that day (or one soon thereafter) is gonna be LIT.

  21. 21.

    JMG

    @Nukular Biskits: Many “undecided” voters are people who dislike even thinking about politics. In those cases, they’re not deciding between Harris and Trump but whether or not they’ll even vote.

  23. 23.

    Trivia Man

    @lamh47: If they stay through the month, perhaps they can help secure temporary voting locations. Seems like a core function of government to ensure  votes can be cast.

  24. 24.

    Nukular Biskits

    @JMG:

    @Nukular Biskits: Many “undecided” voters are people who dislike even thinking about politics. In those cases, they’re not deciding between Harris and Trump but whether or not they’ll even vote.

    That’s another thing that I just can’t wrap my head around: Deliberately choosing to not vote.

  25. 25.

    Belafon

    @Nukular Biskits: The best way to understand an undecided voter is this: They do politics from Labor Day to the election every four years. Otherwise, they don’t think about politics and don’t care about it.

  26. 26.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Nukular Biskits: “I hate them all” is a really strong and really common reaction to politicians in general. I think one reason Trump did as well as he did was that in 2016, he presented to some voters as “I hate them all” in human form.

  27. 27.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Dangerman: Don’t know, I think there could be a lot of split ticket votes for Democratic state candidates and Trump, or people just leaving President blank.

  28. 28.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @Nukular Biskits:

    With reference to my reply to Baud in the earlier thread, WTF is still legitimately “undecided” at this point?

    They are not undecided about anything except whether they are going to tell anyone – pollsters, canvassers, etc – for whom they have decided.

  30. 30.

    Maxim

    Open thread: The port union president who’s in charge of the current strike is in the bag for TFCG and says the striking workers intend to “cripple” the US economy.

    Yes, workers deserve to be paid, and I’m pro-union. But this guy is all buddy-buddy with the tangerine wankmaggot and asked union members to pray for him, etc.

  31. 31.

    Nukular Biskits

    @WaterGirl:

    Completely OT (is that possible on an open thread?), but a question that’s been rattling around in my pea-sized brain for a few weeks:

    What is the most comments you’ve ever seen on a thread here?

  33. 33.

    Captain C

    @cain: “Given that Donald totally sold eleventy-billion watches, shouldn’t you be conceding the race to him even though the actual ballots show you with a 10 million-plus vote victory and nearly 400 electoral votes?  Isn’t it obvious that every one of your votes was cast by an illegal alien?  We’re totally neutral, balanced, and unbiased so you should answer all of our totally good-faith questions.” — the FTFNYT, probably.

  35. 35.

    Juju.

    @narya: The Secretary of State is Elaine Marshall and she is good at her job. I did some work for her campaign when she ran for Senator against Richard Burr. Unfortunately she lost, but she kept her job as Secretary of State. She’s running again this year. I think between Marshall and the governor, they will figure something out. Asheville and bedroom communities are very blue, the rural areas surrounding are pretty red. Both Dems and Republicans have reason to get the vote out in that area, no matter what. Which reminds me, I need to donate to Elaine Marshall’s campaign.

  36. 36.

    Sister Golden Bear

    FWIW, there’s a GoFundMe to help out the owners of LGTBQ bar/coffee house in Asheville that opened just a month before being destroyed by Helene (TikTok video of one the owners returning to the devastation.) Given how few safe spaces there are for LGBTQ people in places like NC, it’s especially heartbreaking. “I had a dream come true and it lasted 32 days.”

    They spent countless months and so much blood, sweat and tears renovating the space and realizing their dream of creating a cozy and quirky place for friends and neighbors to come and feel welcome. And it was that place for a sweet brief time…

    Brandon and Davie used their life savings and took out a large business loan to get this dream of theirs started. In all, they put over $180,000 into this business and are now facing the daunting task of rebuilding from the ground up.

    They need to pay their business loans and other bills and, in typical Brandon and Davie fashion, their first concern was their employees.

  37. 37.

    BR

    @Maxim:

    The only hope I have with that is it’s awfully late in the election cycle to pull that off — yes a port strike can cause trouble and it will, but the economy is slow moving and a strike now won’t cause a recession unless it is prolonged.

  38. 38.

    pacem appellant

    OT Question: Is it a good idea to donate directly to the state party of swing states? If so, how can I do that?

    I’ve been directly donating to Senator Rosen’s campaign in Nevada. She looks like she’s good. But Harris and Trump are still tied in some polls. I want to make sure the my neighboring Silver State gives Harris the EVs she needs to win.

  39. 39.

    M31

    may I just say, fuck NPR?  Had it  on in the car and some political talkshow was on and they first said “vance came out less combative” therefore he was trying to appeal to suburban women; but when  “Walz came out less combative” the question was “was Walz unprepared”

    fuck you you fucking horserace tone police scumbucket loser fuckwads

  45. 45.

    Mel

    @TBone: I’m with you both on that! I haven’t drunk tequila since a (very chilly and ill-advised!) celebratory naked run down a university town side street on Christmas Eve in the late 1980s, but if things go the right way on Nov. 6th, a repeat might be in order.

    Of the tequila, NOT the run!! Waaay too old and (way too slow nowadays) for  a repeat of that fiasco!

  48. 48.

    Gretchen

    Both-sidesism was on full display last night. One question: Coach, you said you were in Hong Kong during Tianamen Square. You were really there a few weeks later. Why did you say that misleading thing? So he was there that summer, but not  on the exact day 35 years ago, and that’s worth a VP debate question. Like Dana Bash thought it was worth asking why he said they used IVF when it was really IUI (Like anybody who hasn’t done it knows what that is). The are so desperate to find lies on both sides that Vance’s lies causing schools to close due to bomb and death threats LAST WEEK is equivalent to not spelling out exactly what week you travelled 35 years ago.

    And Rachel Maddow on Monday showed a whole interview with Vance saying he wanted to install a dictatorship and going into great detail with his thoughts on the subject. Not interesting to the news media. When did Walz to go Hong Kong 35 years ago?

  49. 49.

    frosty

    @Nukular Biskits: Deliberately choosing to not vote.

    I had one of those last weekend too. A Black guy, told me every politician is working for corporations and he won’t vote. I gave it a few minutes but didn’t change his mind. On to the next door!

    ETA I had another one who said he wasn’t into politics. I told him “That’s too bad because politics is into you.” h/t Tim Walz!!

  51. 51.

    Hoodie

    @Juju.: They’ll likely be able to vote somewhat normally in places like Asheville and more built up communities, as those will probably get first attention because of the number of people involved.  A lot of the rural areas are really cut off.  Roads in that region tend to follow the rivers and creeks.  They tend to be narrow and winding, with lots of bridges.  From what I understand, a lot of the rural roads and bridges are out.

  53. 53.

    Jinchi

    @Nukular Biskits: ​
     That’s another thing that I just can’t wrap my head around: Deliberately choosing to not vote.

    That’s about 40% of the population in a good year.

  55. 55.

    Nukular Biskits

    @frosty:

    Reminds me of that hilarious Carlin bit about how it’s the people who DO vote who are to blame, not those who do NOT vote.

    Of course, I don’t agree with Carlin on that subject but it was funny.

  57. 57.

    Hoodie

    @Dangerman: I’d discount Robinson somewhat.  He’d been trailing Stein in the polls for while before all the Black Nazi stuff and it was still neck and neck in the presidential polls.  It’s easier for white voters to discount Robinson –  for obvious reasons.   It might have a marginal effect on voters who were already pretty  down on Trump but still undecided, in that it add to the general impression of chaos around Trump.

  60. 60.

    JoyceH

    This may be a long post, because I need to vent my bafflement and it is huge. I keep seeing and reading pundits saying that Trump has about an even chance to win the election, and… what are they seeing that I can’t see?

    In 2020 in the midst of the pandemic, voters turned out in record numbers to vote, and by over 7 million, they voted Trump out of office – BEFORE J6! Before the worst thing we know about Trump, that he incited a violent insurrection that attempted to overthrow our own government, had even happened! So for Trump to win in 2024, people are going to have to vote for him who didn’t vote for him before. Maybe in 2020 they voted for Biden, or maybe they didn’t vote at all, but this time, they’re coming out for Trump? What motivates that decision? Watching the insurrection on television and feeling left out? Or the pictures of the national secrets stacked up in the bathroom? Or the two impeachments, four indictments, one conviction and one civil penalty for sexual assault?

    And on the other side, who voted against Trump who won’t vote against him this time, when they don’t have to risk their lives in a global pandemic to go vote? They’re going to sit this one out? After J6? AFTER DOBBS? When it’s no longer hypothetical, when hospital emergency rooms really are turning bleeding women away because they’re not dying ENOUGH?

    Someone is going to pipe in here and say, oh electoral college blah blah blah, so okay – which swing state is Trump going to carry that he lost in 2020, and why?

    Since 2020, we know a lot more about Trump than we knew then, and ALL of it is bad. So – what is there in the political sphere that’s going to turn an anti-Trump voter to a Trump voter? What’s going to turn a Democratic vote into a stay home? By the MILLIONS, a lot more than the 7 million in 2020, because Dobbs is bringing a lot of votes. So what is there out there that’s going to swing at least 10 million voters in Trump’s direction?

  61. 61.

    Juju.

    @Hoodie: From what I’ve seen, it’s all bad, both rural and city. Whole communities, roads, bridges, all washed away. Chimney Rock is gone. I can’t wrap my head around that. Just typing it brings a tear to my eyes.

  63. 63.

    wjca

    @Nukular Biskits: But I’m at a loss to understand how anyone can not have made a decision at this point.

    It remains pretty simply. Two factors:

    1. They don’t pay attention to politics most of the time.  At most, they start in early October.  So they don’t know much of anything anything about the candidates beyond, maybe, their names.
    2. Their memories of things outside their person lives, e.g. politics, doesn’t really extend beyond the covid pandemic.  Which is to say, they really don’t remember much about President Trump’s term.  (Even if they strongly disliked him at the time — to the extent that they noticed.  See #1 above. Although sometimes they can be reminded.)

    That’s how they can be undecided at this point. How many people like that there are can be hard to imagine from inside our bubble here.

  67. 67.

    TBone

    @Mel: we can run around nekkid and whooping it up with libations inside though!  I used to do polar bear plunges into cold spring water in the winter but at my age, I’m thinking I’d just go into shock if I tried that again.   Better to stay home safe and unsound!

  68. 68.

    Ishiyama

    @JoyceH: I could not agree with you more. It makes no sense to doubt the evidence of our own eyes. Turnout will be huge, and motivated.

  70. 70.

    Anoniminous

    Biden sending the National Guard to North Carolina is only the first step. They will round-up Conservatives and Evangelical Christians who will be put in concentration camps where they will be injected with the Gay Gene serum with the result they will soon only listen to Judy Garland, Whitney Houston, and Cher records and only watch Marlene Dietrich and Marilyn Monroe films.

  71. 71.

    Hoodie

    @JoyceH: Pundits base their blather mostly on superficial views of polls, have a vested interest in a horse race and not wanting to be wrong, so the safest thing is to say it will be close.   Pollsters have been adjusting their models because of a failure to pick up Trump turnout, so it’s entirely possible they have overcompensated in Trump’s direction.  Harris is showing something like a consistent 4% lead for a few weeks now; that lead could easily be more like 5-7%.  An election like this typically breaks late, with most undecideds going with what they see as the safe choice.  Everything Trump is doing is making him appear to be less of a safe choice.   Vance tried to undo some of that last night, but I don’t think he succeeded in helping Trump all that much because he was more worried about promoting himself.

  73. 73.

    Juju.

    @Hoodie: Or, it could take a few undecideds who think at least we’re getting help and not just some guy who throws paper towel rolls at us and only helps the people he likes.

  75. 75.

    artem1s

    I hope Sherrod Brown is putting together some ads around couchfucker’s non-answer. The last thing Ohio needs is another slick liar representing them. Moreno has a credibility problem already and Sherrod should definitely be taking advantage of that.

  79. 79.

    Anoniminous

    @JoyceH:

    Mostly because the 2016 and 2020 elections were decided by ~80,000 votes spread across Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.

  80. 80.

    Another Scott

    @JoyceH: Well said.

    I’ve mentioned before that the few Turnp flags and giant signs in my subdivision disappeared on January 7.  And haven’t come back.  (I did see one pathetic T/V yard sign in an overgrown intersection corner this AM, but that’s it.  Such signs are running about  H/W 100:1 T/V in my little area in NoVA.)

    I can’t see T/V doing as well as 2020, but that he got as many votes as he did in 2020 surprised me.  He’s got huge headwinds this time, but the country is still too divided and voting for even an amazing woman is still a big step.  It shouldn’t be close, and I don’t think it will be close, but…

    :-(

    We have to get every gettable vote, and our folks are doing everything possible to do that (in stark contrast to 2020 when the pandemic massively limited normal campaigning and GOTV efforts).

    Forward!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  81. 81.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @JoyceH: The media has interviewed Trump supporters and undecideds extensively, including those of color, it’s not a mystery. Some people just vote on how they feel about things, and who was in change at the time. Biden benefited in 2020, because it was deep in the pandemic, and it sucked. Now people are mad at how expensive everything is. I understand the frustration and I have it pretty good. My income has gone up a lot thanks to a couple of promotions I worked my butt off for, and it barely is more than inflation. Plus, I own my home. Rents have gone up more than inflation. Before 2020, things were more affordable. Trump is benefiting from that. I know we’ve done way better than the rest of the world. I know the Biden administration has done as well as is possible under the circumstances. I think Trump was and would be a disaster, including for the economy. However, I’m not one of those people. They really don’t pay attention to politics or the news, only to the things that directly affect them.

  82. 82.

    Mel

    @TBone: Agreed! My grandmother used to tell me that I’d reach an age where my main criterion for selecting an item of clothing would be: “Does it have pockets big enough to hold Kleenex, eyeglasses, lip balm, and a snack?”

    She was correct, and I am there.😸

  83. 83.

    JoyceH

    @Hoodie: I’ve seen reports that polls under-reported the R vote through 2016, so they ‘corrected their models’, and perhaps they over-corrected, because they’re been under-reporting the D vote ever since.

    And to be honest, I don’t see how it’s even POSSIBLE for polls to be accurate anymore. The heyday of polling was back before cell phones, before even answering machines, when everyone had a landline and the only way to tell who was calling you was to answer the ringing phone. But we’ve gone from everyone answers the phone to nobody answers the phone if they don’t know who’s calling, so — ?? Poll respondents are self-selected now, which I think is bound to introduce bias. And a turnout election is going to miscount by its very nature – pollsters had a checklist for ‘likely voters’, and one of the items is if they’ve voted before. So new voters, and voters who usually don’t vote but are coming out now because they’re extraordinarily motivated, aren’t going to wind up in the likely voter list. Early on the polls report on registered voters, but closer to the election they switch to likely voters, and that’s when ‘the race tightens up’ because those highly motivated new voters are invisible.

  84. 84.

    Hoodie

    @Juju.: No doubt it’s bad everywhere, but anything near the major thoroughfares like I-40 will be addressed long before the outlying areas.   They have to get Asheville up and running because it’s the hub for that entire region, e.g., provides most of the economic activity, employment and medical care.

  87. 87.

    eclare

    @Mel:

    Pockets also give you a place to put your hands if you’re standing around for a while or posing for photos.

  88. 88.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Undecided Michigan voter: The one thing that stuck out to me was JD Vance’s refusal to say whether or not Trump lost the 2020 election. It makes me think he is not as trustworthy

    Duh!

  90. 90.

    Hoodie

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: The other day Carville made what I think was a good point.  While there are definitely people suffering from inflation, a lot of people are like you (and me) because the economy is quite strong.  Carville said what he’d like to see more of is reminding people of what they stand to lose if you put an unstable maniac like Trump in the White House.  He’s much more dangerous now because he’s getting older and more disconnected from reality and he’s relying more on support from committed idealogues who have wacked out ideas that could cause serious social and economic distress.

  91. 91.

    wjca

    To take an optimistic look towards the future, after Harris wins, Vance’s political career is maxed out.  He may continue as a Senator.  But does anybody know of a case (pretty sure there haven’t been any in the past century or so) of the VP candidate on a losing ticket even getting nominated for President, let alone winning?

  93. 93.

    Old School

    @wjca:

    But does anybody know of a case (pretty sure there haven’t been any in the past century or so) of the VP candidate on a losing ticket even getting nominated for President, let alone winning?

    Mondale.

  94. 94.

    Hoodie

    @wjca:  I got the impression from his debate performance that he’s already thinking of how he’s going to pivot after a Trump loss.

  105. 105.

    Matt McIrvin

    @wjca: The refusal of modern Republicans to admit they ever lost elections may suppress loser stink within the party. They’ve decided to believe they really won, so their nominees are not losers, just victims of cheating.

  110. 110.

    Splitting Image

    @NotMax:

    FDR. Democratic VP candidate with James Cox in 1920.

    Also Bob Dole. Losing 1976 VP nominee and 1996 presidential nominee.

    One other losing VP nominee worth mentioning is Earl Warren, the VP nominee in 1948. He wasn’t elected to anything later on, but he was appointed Chief Justice.

  111. 111.

    JohnC

    @Nukular Biskits: Carlin was an incredibly talented/groundbreaking/entertaining artist, but he didn’t always get it right, and he was corroding with cynicism at the end.

  112. 112.

    sdhays

    @Gretchen: I find it surprising (not that surprising, although I thought the Walz debate team would want to inject that into the debate) that Walz was asked about where he was when Tiananmen happened but no one asked Vance about how much he hates people who don’t have children. Or hates women with cats. Or hates women whose children have grown. Or hates women who … are women.

  114. 114.

    Tony G

    @Nukular Biskits: When there are local elections in my small town in New Jersey, I’m sometimes “undecided” about candidates for town council and school board — because the candidates have no party affiliation and they all basically say the same thing — “More services, lower taxes!”.  But you really have to be deliberately ignorant to be “undecided” about somebody like Trump, who has been in the news every day for the past nine years.

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