Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.

The snowflake in chief appeared visibly frustrated when questioned by a reporter about egg prices.

“In this country American means white. everybody else has to hyphenate.”

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

No one could have predicted…

If you don’t believe freedom is for everybody, then the thing you love isn’t freedom, it is privilege.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, door #2)

Fear or fury? The choice is ours.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Jesus watching the most hateful people claiming to be his followers

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

T R E 4 5 O N

“Loving your country does not mean lying about its history.”

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Celebrate the fucking wins.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / TGIFriday Morning Open Thread: All Things Considered, I’d Rather Be A Democrat

TGIFriday Morning Open Thread: All Things Considered, I’d Rather Be A Democrat

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218Comments

  2. 2.

    Ksmiami

    Banner jobs report, markets at highs. Wtf are people thinking it’s all doom and gloom? Trumps policies will absolutely devastate the economy and our standing in the world. Not to mention it will be a brutal, nihilistic term.

  3. 3.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    I mailed my ballot yesterday, and I just got an email from the country clerk thanking me for mailing it and telling me they’ll let me know when it’s received. I don’t know who’s responsible, but we must have a good system.

  4. 4.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Ksmiami: Fox News watchers. Yesterday, my hairdresser told me she was upset that people in the hurricane area aren’t getting what they need. I said I had a friend in Spartanburg and they seemed to be getting aid. She let it drop.

  6. 6.

    Baud

    @Ksmiami: Propaganda. We might win the election, but we lost the propaganda war. Too many Dems more dedicated to the NYT than to good policy.

  7. 7.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Liz Cheney can bring herself to support Kamala Harris despite disagreeing with her on 90% of things, while many online leftists can’t bring themselves to support Kamala Harris despite agreeing with her on 90% of things.

  8. 8.

    stinger

    Good job, Dorothy!

    I just watched the Liz Cheney/Kamala Harris speeches in Ripon. One of the many things that struck me is that despite all the applause and “Thank you, Liz” chants, Cheney never really looked happy. She is doing something that goes very much against the grain, but sees that the alternative would be far worse. She’ll never become a Democrat, and I’ll most likely vote against her if she runs for President in the future. But for now, Thank you, Liz!

  9. 9.

    narya

    @stinger: I imagine that she is going through some internal struggles, TBH. She has spent her life fighting tooth and nail against Dems, and to be (a) welcomed onto the J6 committee by Nancy Pelosi and (b) cheered by a Dem crowd in Wisconsin must cause some cognitive dissonance. I wonder if it will make her question any of her other beliefs.

  11. 11.

    narya

    I remember seeing someone say that TCFG is a middle-class person’s idea of a rich person; similarly, I think Vance is a R’s idea of a “smart” person. He’s not smart–he’s slick and facile, not to mention a patronizing, lying sack of shit.

  12. 12.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @stinger: Endorsing the Democratic nominee for President is extremely bitter medicine for the heir apparent of the Cheney political family to swallow, but she knows the consequences of the disease that medicine is trying to fight. I’ll bet she’s read Shirer, and maybe understands Niemoller’s warning too

    (ETA: I don’t doubt that she’s hoping that she can take charge of a post-Trump GOP, but the fact that she understands that the GOP must be defeated if it’s going to be “saved” puts her ahead of a lot of Republicans who remained in office after she was hounded out.)

  13. 13.

    TBone

    I love that Chef knows not to call them ‘submarine sandwiches’ during a flood event!  They are HOAGIES. 🥰

  14. 14.

    Jeffro

    Paul Krugman today: why trumpov is lying about disaster relief:

    Before I get into the disaster relief issue, let me note that Trump has been a true innovator in political dishonesty. Lots of politicians have misrepresented their personal histories or the content of their policy proposals — Trump does that, too. But he has also constructed a whole dystopian fantasy world, trying to persuade voters that America is a nation with a collapsing economy overrun by violent immigrants.

    In reality, America has low inflation and low unemployment, and the average worker’s purchasing power is higher than it was five years ago. Yes, some Americans are struggling, but that was as true when Trump was president as it is now.

    What’s new is that Trump’s vision of America-as-hellscape seems to be losing its political mojo. For example, a new Cook Political Report poll of swing states, while still showing Trump with some advantage on the economy, showed Kamala Harris tied on the issue of who can best deal with inflation and the cost of living, and barely trailing on who can best deal with crime and violence.

    So it must be time to conjure a new fake source of fear and outrage.

    BINGO

  15. 15.

    topclimber

    @narya: Vance’s favorability rating went up, and I think what might have done it the most is the moment when he said he was sorry to hear that Tim’s son Gus witnessed a gun shooting. He might even have meant it.

  16. 16.

    TBone

    @Baud: I read a news story yesterday that the vets got their duly earned medical benefits only after a news story broke that their Purple Hearts had been denied.  Because those two things are tied together.

  17. 17.

    TBone

    @topclimber: he said “Christ have mercy” only because Tim Walz had already thrown a Leviticus reference at him beforehand.  Love thy neighbor as thyself, but it was so quick a lot of people missed it.

  18. 18.

    Spanky

    @stinger:

    One of the many things that struck me is that despite all the applause and “Thank you, Liz” chants, Cheney never really looked happy.

    I can never recall I time when I’ve seen Liz Cheney look happy. Might just be because she has a “resting ‘worried’ face”

    ETA and frankly, the only time you saw Big Dick grinning, it didn’t bode well for humanity. Not sure how far that apple fell from the tree.

  19. 19.

    pajaro

    If I could talk to Liz Cheney, or any of the Republicans, I’d want to tell them that we want and need their help in this election, where the stakes are the future of democracy, and that we look forward to the day where they and other patriotic and sane Republicans have regained control of their party, and we can argue with and against them on issues of policy and in normal elections.  I’m grateful that they are our allies in this struggle, but neither we nor they need to apologize for our differences.

  20. 20.

    Geminid

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: I think Cheney is a realist and knows she will never take over the Republican Party. Cheney might hope Brian Kemp or Glenn Youngkin will, but she has no chance herself. Too many people in the party hate her.

  22. 22.

    TBone

    @Spanky: I saw her smiling cheekily during VP Harris’s speech while standing a little behind VP but still on camera.  Grinning, actually.

  23. 23.

    Spanky

    US job growth surges in September;
    unemployment rate falls to 4.1%
    (Reuters – 8:59 AM ET 10/4/2024)

    These things will carry through to the election.

  26. 26.

    Geminid

    @TBone: Those soldiers were fortunate. Their concussions were caused by near misses. If one of those missiles had scored a direct hit on the bunkers they sheltered in, it would have killed everyone inside.

  31. 31.

    Jeffro

    • great jobs report
    • low unemployment
    • low inflation
    • port strike averted
    • stock market at record highs
    • anyone want to get a pool going as to when the next Fox News “CARAVAN!!!1!” will appear?
  34. 34.

    stinger

    @narya: If Cheney ever were to become president, at least I wouldn’t want to flee the country. She’s given ground a little bit on LGBQT issues, mainly because, like many Repubs who do so, she has family affected by them. Surprising she hasn’t moved further left on that topic. Still bad on abortion, environment, ACA, torture, on so on.

  36. 36.

    Geminid

    @SatanicPanic: The US economy looks strong. The Labor Department issued a good jobs report this morning that showed the economy added ~250,000 new jobs last week. This was 100,000 above expectations.

    There is one dark economic cloud: a possible spike in oil prices caused by war in the Middle East. But that’s what the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is for and I expect President Biden will not hesitate to sell oil to cushion any shock. We’ll turn a profit when we buy it back in a few months, as was the case last year.

  38. 38.

    stinger

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: Ironically, her father was a big promoter of the unitary executive theory, which in my opinion led straight to Project 2025. The fact that “country club Republicans” haven’t as a body run screaming from Trump says that they’d be okay with unitary executive put into practice, as long as the executive was one of them.

  39. 39.

    Jeffg166

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I took my ballot to the post office Monday morning. Wednesday I had it returned to me in my mail.

    Yesterday I took it to a satellite election office nearest me. They were not happy about my story. They were as mystified as I was as to why it was sent back to me.

    Got a new mailing envelope. Filled it out and dropped it into the drop box outside the office.

    I should get an email when the county election office receives it.

  40. 40.

    Jackie

    @stinger:

    Cheney never really looked happy.

    She looked near to tears while basically acknowledging and mourning the death of the traditional Republican Party.

    BUT – she shook that off and her mood shifted dramatically as she praised Harris’ commitment to be an American president to ALL Americans, and would protect our Constitution.

    We have many, many differences with Liz, but we all love our country.

  42. 42.

    rikyrah

     

    About Vance and his unresolved Mommy issues His pathological hatred of women stems from his mother being a crackhead.

     

    What angers me is his deliberate misleading of that his poor mother was a victim of those evil cartels across the border .

     

    No. She was a crackhead who got her start because of sacks of shyt that produced those “legal” pills and lied about it while they dumped them into communities across America.

     

    And, she was a nurse who stole from her place of employment.

     

    None of that has anything to do with cartels across the border. And the fact that the MSM lets him get away with these lies is ridiculous 😡

  44. 44.

    Ruviana

    Love that Bruce made his endorsement in a diner. Is he waiting for FTFNYT reporters to come ask him about the election?

  46. 46.

    stinger

    @Jeffro: anyone want to get a pool going as to when the next Fox News “CARAVAN!!!1!” will appear?

    @Baud: I blame Haitians.

    The caravan is IN THE HOUSE.

  47. 47.

    jonas

    @Baud: First the Arlington stunt and now this. If a Democrat had fucked with vets like this, their political careers would have been over 10x by now. Trump does it and it must just be another day ending in -y.  And yet vets still support him in large numbers. I guess they hate migrants and trans people more than they take pride in their own service.

  49. 49.

    Scout211

    Video on X of the college gym where Trump had a rally yesterday.

    A look at the crowd as Trump takes the stage here in Saginaw, Michigan. (For a campaign that often points out when opponents’ venues don’t look full, this visual is striking)

     

    HuffPost     Donald Trump, who has obsessed over crowd sizes, spoke to a nearly half-full venue during a campaign rally in Saginaw, Michigan, on Thursday, clips from Spectrum News DC’s Taylor Popielarz show.

    The GOP nominee’s campaign reserved “half the room” at Saginaw Valley State University’s Ryder Center as officials at the university said it could seat roughly 4,000 people, the Detroit Free Press reported.

    The former president wound up speaking to an estimated 2,000 supporters on Thursday, according to the Midland Daily News.

    Detroit Free Press’ Paul Egan described the seating as “mostly full” before it became “noticeably thinner” as Trump’s speech went on.

    What’s happening with your crowd size, Donald?

  50. 50.

    satby

    Morning everyone. Last day in Seattle. SO MUCH NEWS to try to keep up with. And none of it is good for the convict. 30 days to go.

  51. 51.

    trollhattan

    Oklahoma: hold all these beers.

    October 4, 2024 at 9:51 am EDT By Taegan Goddard

    The Oklahoman: “Bids opened Monday for a contract to supply the state Department of Education with 55,000 Bibles. According to the bid documents, vendors must meet certain specifications: Bibles must be the King James Version; must contain the Old and New Testaments; must include copies of the Pledge of Allegiance, Declaration of Independence, U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights; and must be bound in leather or leather-like material.”

    “A salesperson at Mardel Christian & Education searched, and though they carry 2,900 Bibles, none fit the parameters.”

    “But one Bible fits perfectly: Lee Greenwood’s God Bless the U.S.A. Bible, endorsed by former President Donald Trump and commonly referred to as the Trump Bible. They cost $60 each online, with Trump receiving fees for his endorsement. “

    You know what else is leather-like.

  52. 52.

    narya

    @Ruviana: Diners are a THING in NJ–they’ll have to figure out which one he’s in. There are multiple choices even in Freehold (where Bruce is from)

    ETA: they’ll also have to get a pork roll sammich for the full experience.

  53. 53.

    Soprano2

    How can people not see how gross and unqualified and nutty TCFG is? I will be forever puzzled by that. Just imagine how these people would react if Biden required the Republican governors of TN, SC, and GA to grovel at his feet in order to get aid for their states. That’s just so, so gross…..

  56. 56.

    kindness

    Liz Cheney is doing one thing for me.  She’s shaving the innate revulsion I have for her father, Darth off.  Yea, Dick came out saying he’ll vote for Kamela but screw him.  Dick was right there with the uber right wing when he was VP.  Still, he’s getting family cred because of his daughter.  Kudos Liz.

  59. 59.

    jonas

    @rikyrah:  And the fact that the MSM lets him get away with these lies is ridiculous 😡

    First, they’d have to research the facts. Then they’d have to get comments from people involved, including Vance. Then they’d have to write it up knowing it will piss off Vance’s people and they wouldn’t get to ride up front in JD’s fun bus anymore on the way to the next rally.

  61. 61.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    Trump War Room via Bill Scher and Anne Laurie @ Top:

    Q: “President Trump says that you’ve had four years as Vice President to do all the things you promised during the campaign, but haven’t done it. Is he right?”

    Donald Trump had four years as PRESIDENT to do all the things he’s promising. Why didn’t he do them then?

  63. 63.

    BR

    I wonder if Black twitter / tiktok has been on top of what happened at the Trump rally yesterday, where other Trump supporters jumped a Black Trump supporter (looked like an older man, definitely not a young man) who was selling merch. Seemed very much like a warning sign to those who team up with Trump that this is what the base really thinks of you.

  64. 64.

    jonas

    @Scout211: I don’t get this whole showing up to a Trump rally and then getting bored and leaving 20 minutes in. Haven’t these people ever been to a rally or seen him speak before? It’s *always* an hour of low-energy, rambling wordsalad. Why even go if you know you’re just going to bail after a few minutes?

  66. 66.

    Kay

    Economy still booming, media and Republicans still denying it.

    Liars. The gaslighting on the economy deserves investigation – it was too coordinated to be accidental.

    Why did the entire US media spend 4 years telling Americans a good economy was bad? Legitimate question.

  67. 67.

    FDRLincoln

    The Cheneys are evil but they are Lawful Evil in Dungeons and Dragons terms. They have evil goals, but they do follow some rules and don’t want to burn down civilization, since they know that they ultimately benefit by civilization existing and functioning.

    Trump and his cohorts are Chaotic Evil, driven by nothing but ego and immediate impulse gratification, without any consideration at all for the long-term. They will gladly destroy civilization if it seems like the fun thing to do.

    Sometimes it is necessary for good to temporarily ally with Lawful Evil to defeat a Chaotic Evil enemy. But never forget that Lawful Evil is still evil, and once the Chaotic Evil forces are beaten, the Lawful Evil forces will eventually betray you.

    Don’t trust the Cheneys. But yes, we’ll take their help now.

  69. 69.

    Kay

    Eventually the Biden economy is going to cycle into a downturn – let’s see what the liars do with that.
    They’re purely in fantasy territory now – ALL their economic/financial reporting should be suspect.

  71. 71.

    jonas

    @Geminid: I’m sure driving up oil prices is part of Netanyahu’s calculus in expanding the war into Lebanon right now. Seeing if he can deliver an October surprise for Trump.

  72. 72.

    Kay

    If there are more Republicans in the Democratic Party the Party will move Right.
    A thing is the sum of its parts.

    I’m willing to make the concession to win this thing but let’s not lie about it to our base. Taking Republicans in means we go Right, by definition. Not far Right! But some.

  73. 73.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @jonas:

    It would also be a step along the path to admitting that the Republican Party is not legitimate, and that is anathema.  The national press is having to work really, really hard these days to avoid admitting that.

  77. 77.

    jonas

    @TBone: They’re *paid?* I’ve never seen reporting on that, but I would also not be surprised. When you don’t have any real GOTV campaign on the ground, you’re also not in touch with people who will come to these things voluntarily. You’d think they’d shut the doors and put burly men in front of them to keep the crowd full the whole time and make sure people clap loudly enough, but maybe they’re too cheap to follow through with that.

  78. 78.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kay: What concessions are being made for their votes?  The Cheneys aren’t becoming Democrats.  They are trying to defeat Trump.  There is a difference.

  79. 79.

    Baud

    @TBone: On some issues, maybe. But I agree with Kay, in that Dems have been moving leftward since 2004 and two decades later, we’re facing yet another close election. Maybe people assume that the leftward trajectory is on auto-pilot and they can take it for granted, but I don’t think it is, and there’s a very good chance that Biden was peak left in a lot of areas, except maybe civil rights.

  80. 80.

    OId Man Shadow

    I am happy that there are a lot more Republicans who believe in America, the Constitution, and the rule of law than I thought there were.

    I hope there are many more out there who, once they get in the privacy of their polling places, will vote for America, for their daughters, for unity, for a better future, and yes… I suppose even for hope.

    I want to be surprised by people in a good way for a change.

  81. 81.

    jonas

    @Kay: I don’t have the impression that any of the Republicans endorsing Harris are also joining the Democratic party and demanding a seat at the table when it comes to writing a platform or anything like that. They’re saying they disagree with Democrats about most things, but view the threat from Trump as greater. As far as I know, Harris and Walz have conceded nothing in policy terms to get their support.

  82. 82.

    TBone

    @jonas: I have seen reports on it but thought it was kind of obvious so didn’t share. I mean, he had paid observers for his initial ride down the escalator!

  83. 83.

    Baud

    @jonas: We’re more rightward on immigration than ideal, but I thinks that following public sentiment rather than trying to win over the support of people like Liz Cheney.

  85. 85.

    TBone

    @Baud: I refuse to underestimate VP Harris and Tim Walz.  I am confident that they mean what they say about policy and moving forward.

    But I hear the loud calls for bipartisanship, so I understand the concern. I just don’t share that concern.

  87. 87.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Baud: Nativist tendencies act somewhat independently of the left-right divide.  It can be one of the dark sides of populism,

  88. 88.

    BR

    @Kay:

    I don’t think it does, at least if it’s just for an election or two. In terms of policy the party would durably move right only if the further-right Dem primary candidates beat incumbent Dems for congress / senate seats. I’ve seen a lot of social media leftists complaining about this and they notably come up short when asked for any evidence for their claim that somehow in the last two months Harris has taken a center left party and moved it to the right of Mitt Romney.

  89. 89.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @Kay: But that’s just it – they’re not actually joining the Democratic Party. They’re acting as part of a broader coalition – which they joined without negotiating or demanding concessions from the Democratic Party, mind you. The Democrats didn’t even have to make the famous offer of Michael Corleone, because the apostate Republicans weren’t asking for anything that required the Dems to back off their stances. They weren’t asking for anything in exchange for their support. Well, except perhaps a little future good will.

  90. 90.

    JML

    Dick Cheney remains an evil fuck and his whole family can go off to their compound in WY and never be heard from again after this election. I’ll take their help against TFG, but no trade-offs. they get nothing for doing the right thing; this is their penance for all the rotten horrible garbage they’ve done before.

    I prefer the Democratic Party keep drifting Left (I’m comfortable with it being slower, to make sure we keep pulling as many as possible along and keep everyone solid behind these better policies), but winning elections against these lunatics from the GOP has to be priority 1-2-3. Compromise doesn’t have to be evil, so long as progress continues to be made.

    The US government isn’t structurally designed for “backlash” elections where when the GOP wrecks the country for 4 years we sweep all of them out with massive majorities. It’s just not. The country is too big, and the structures of the House, Senate, and SCOTUS make it designed to be hard to move too fast. Maybe if we had another Great Depression, but who wants that?

  91. 91.

    Trivia Man

    We need a good solution for automation or civilization as we know it is doomed.
    My rough draft solution is to require any automated process to pay taxes as if the equivalent human labor force is employed. Social Security, withheld income taxes… all of it.
    Use that money for UBI. There is no reason we need 40 hours to be the standard. At a rough guess, a 20 hour week would still be as productive  a 40 week in 1990. The strongest argument in my favor is the chart showing wages on one line and productivity on a second. They tracked closely until about 1980. Wages stay almost flat, productivity about 45 degree angle upwards.

  92. 92.

    BR

    @TBone: ​

    @Kay: maybe we’re good at moving them leftward.

    At least among the never Trumper podcaster type cohort this seems to be happening. The spell was broken and some of them are signing on to centrist Dem ideas now.

  93. 93.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud:

    What I find mordantly amusing today:  FTF Putz Vichy NY Times has buried the Trump/Jack Smith filing news in a roundup of national news. Seriously.  Go find it.

    Meanwhile, their very own “Ethicist’s” column today:  GIFT LINK:

    Is It OK to Leave the U.S. if the Wrong Candidate Becomes President?

    The magazine’s Ethicist columnist on modes of resistance to American electoral politics.

    A top comment (over 700 “likes”):

    Can someone please explain to me why we aren’t naming Trump here? What end are we serving when we, in one breath, express fear of an authoritarian yet refuse to identify the authoritarian by name? THIS is the more interesting ethical question as far as I’m concerned.

    The NY Times.  Is a fucking parody of a “paper of record.”

    I wonder if they’d publish my reader comment if I pointed out that almost all of my friends have dropped their NY Times subscription because of all the gaslighting?  It’s their sincerely performed “mode of resistance.”

    Is it ethical of me to continue my (very cheap, because threatened to cancel) sub because I am enjoying the Chicken Marsala Meatballs recipes?  A:  No.  It is not ethical.  I iz bad.

    Jackals:  get in there and submit some more reader comments!  Resist!!

  94. 94.

    topclimber

    @Kay: It is a head-scratcher that media in the pay of the billionaire class never seems to have knowledgeable business reporters, much less ones who go into the countless ways the big corporations screw the consumer everyday forever.

  96. 96.

    Baud

    @Elizabelle:

    What end are we serving when we, in one breath, express fear of an authoritarian yet refuse to identify the authoritarian by name?

    Fooling gullible liberal subscribers that the NYT is on their side in exposing Trump.

  97. 97.

    MisterForkbeard

    @jonas: The rumor is that they leave once the venmo payment for attendance has arrived

    Trump genuinely does get big crowds, but he’s also got a long history of paying for people to show up. We know he’s done it.

  98. 98.

    BR

    One thing that is striking is how much the online left hates Obama. They hate him to a crazy extent for a president who took over from Bush in some dark times and righted the ship and had some signature achievements that no president in a half century had gotten done. We can quibble about some of his cabinet and policy details but I mean…

    There is a huge gap between normies and the online left about Obama — I think apolitical normies that I’ve seen really love Obama. He’s the only president in the last many decades where they didn’t feel embarrassed that he was the president.

  99. 99.

    stinger

    @Another Scott: Yes, she chuckled at her own joke, and was pleased at all the applause and chants. But she’s not a happy person by nature, as Kamala and Tim and Joe clearly are. Or at least, as someone said above, her resting face doesn’t show it.

  102. 102.

    stinger

    @Kay: Are they in the party? Or are they just announcing how much they hate the current head of their own party? Not the same thing.

    ETA:

    jonas @81: “As far as I know, Harris and Walz have conceded nothing in policy terms to get their support.”

    This.

  103. 103.

    SatanicPanic

    @BR: It’s probably aggravating to them too that people like the ACA and admit it was a good idea. The nonsense about it being a “Republican Plan” really didn’t stick.

  104. 104.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Baud: There’s a good chance that we backpedal a bit on civil rights, too. In selected areas.

    If Reps and the media succeed in continuing to trash trans folks and freak out/lie about it (especially if Kamala loses), then I can see future Dems deciding not to push as hard for trans rights and protections. Not because they’re opposed, but because if they see it as electoral poison they’ll back off. It doesn’t help that a lot of Very Online trans activists are really angry at the Biden admin.

  105. 105.

    Dave

    @kindness: Cheney is pretty simple he is a basically a lawful evil real life version of a Bond villain.  Feel free to hold him in contempt the biggest difference is that Dick and Liz to though not as fully developed understand the importance of stability and are also not embarrasing to have as nemesis.

    Trump and Trumpism really make a sort of narrative sense if they do lead to the downfall if the US; while he specifically is most specifically understood as the all the pathologies of the 70’s and 80’s given human form the ridiculous grifting carnival barker is very very American (don’t get me wrong there are plenty of admirable traits that are very American as well but if you were to distill the negative traits of it you have an almost perfect overlap between them and Trump).

  106. 106.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud:  I am seriously curious about their subscription numbers.  I think a lot of us are on to them.

    James Fallows gave them a good whack this week, pointing out the disparity between their Hillary emails shrieking headlines and article space on top of front page, and their stealth “new Jack Smith charges against Trump” article.  Seriously.  They gave it one column halfway down the page.

    Headline is “Judge Unveils New Evidence in Jan. 6 Case.”

    Umm.  About who in chief?

    Fuckers.

    I hope karma hits Putz and editor Joe Kahn very hard.  Maybe fatally.

  107. 107.

    SatanicPanic

    @TBone: if Jennifer Rubin is any indication it definitely seems like it.

    In any case, we’re not talking about a ton of people.

  110. 110.

    Kay

    @jonas:

    WHY is Harris campaigning with Cheney? To bring GOP voters in.
    It’s like you’re stopping at that act itself. What is the goal? More GOP voters.
    If you add limes to lemonade you’ve made a different drink. It moves the composition of the coalition Right.

  111. 111.

    Captain C

    @Elizabelle:

    Is It OK to Leave the U.S. if the Wrong Candidate Becomes President?

    If and when Harris wins, I’d be fine if many members of the FTFNYT, starting with Pinch the Lesser, Maga Habs, Peter Baker, and at least half their editorial page writers emigrated in a huff.

    Also, given that it’s the FTFNYT, this headline kind of implies that they think Democrats should stick around to be tortured in a TCFG/Couch/Kapo Miller regime.

    (ed. for grammar)

  112. 112.

    catclub

    @stinger: that they’d be okay with unitary executive put into practice, as long as the executive was one of them.

     

    This is presently a ‘heads I win, tails you lose’ situation for Republicans, since the GOP SC will strike down anything a Democrat does as president they don;t like,

    but let a GOP president do whatever.

  113. 113.

    Scout211

    @jonas: I don’t get this whole showing up to a Trump rally and then getting bored and leaving 20 minutes in

    WaPo has a news story up today that asks that very question of many rally goers who have left early.

    The reasons people say they leave Donald Trump’s rallies early

    Sorry, no gift link. I  was able to read it for some reason, but it’s not that interesting because it is just a bunch of people telling the reporter why they personally left early. But on the positive side, a whole WaPo news story on why people leave Trump rallies early has to get under his skin when he keeps insisting no one leaves early.

  114. 114.

    cain

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Fox News watchers live on a different plane of reality. It’s particularly galling when parents won’t listen to their kids about pandemic stuff even when said kid is a microbiologist who has a Ph.D in viruses.

    They would rather listen to some numbskull on fox news than their own children.

    I’m really thinking that Fox News and right wing echo chambers is a national threat because these people no longer make rational decisions based on anything.

  115. 115.

    TBone

    @Kay: I just don’t see logic in that, we’re not adding them, they’re stumping for us Dems.  They will revert to the mean after the election.

  117. 117.

    Dave

    @jonas: Yep it’s the few that are actually showing some principles beyond immediate self indulgence. An opponent you can at least respect in a few areas as opposed (and absolutely deserve to be held to account for the madness they nurtured and allowed to flower) to the far more obviously vile Trumpist types.

  119. 119.

    Kay

    @stinger:

    They have! They’ve moved Right on immigration. Now maybe it’s necessary – the country has probably moved Right on immigration but Harris CLEARLY has.
    Again – I’m all in on this thing but let’s be honest with our base. Nothing is free.

  121. 121.

    catclub

    @TBone: I am confident that they mean what they say about policy and moving forward.

     

    Although they have not said much about how a president makes progress with a divided House and Senate.

    Walz did not respond to the question of “Why hasn’t Harris done everything already?”  with an explanation of divided government…. but could have.

  123. 123.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay:  Ehh.  I am not worried.

    It’s a permission structure for Never Trump (and now, would have been reluctant Trump) voters.

    Democratic party highlighting its Jasmine Crocketts and AOCs.  We are not going to become Cheney Lite.

  125. 125.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Kay: This is correct. The real question is whether we’re taking in Republicans or Republicans are just temporarily voting with us. And that really IS an interesting question.

    If it calcifies into a new longterm voting coalition we’re absolutely going to move further right.

  128. 128.

    Elizabelle

    @cain:  That happened to my internist!  Her Foxbot parents wouldn’t listen to her in early Covid days.  They both caught it.  And survived.

  129. 129.

    artem1s

    @narya: ​ 

    She has spent her life fighting tooth and nail against Dems

    She has spent her life spewing lies and misinformation like every MAGAt wanna be. She doesn’t give a shit about fighting against Dems. She either believed that shit or she only cared about power. She’s not ever going to change. What you are looking at isn’t discomfort, it’s disdain, female self hatred, and naked racism because she has to get permission from a Black Woman to be relevant again.
    The misogynist GOP skipped over her when it came time to pick their new leaders and, like every member of the ‘FaceEatingLeopardParty’ she’s pissed that she doesn’t get a pass on all the terrible shit her father did to this country. The GOP Women Haters Club won’t let her in their clubhouse anymore and so she’s gonna start her own club. She knows as soon as TCF is gone most Dems will be right back to Whitewashing all the terrible shit the GOP did that made TCF and Project 2025 possible.

  130. 130.

    Ken

    @jonas: I don’t get this whole showing up to a Trump rally and then getting bored and leaving 20 minutes in.

    You’d think there’d be some RW conspiracy theory about that, since it’s become so obvious. Something along the lines of  TBone‘s idea that they’re paid, except that instead of the Trump campaign it’s Soros paying them to show up and walk out.

    What group was it that organized that for one of Trump’s 2020 rallies — booked a bunch of seats online then didn’t show?

  131. 131.

    cain

    @TBone:

    Our 3 letter agencies (likely filled with like minded people) have been failing on the job on this. It seems like there is a lot of hesitancy go after Elon Musk on things from the military, 3  letter agencies not aggressively going  – it’s like they are waiting for the right political winds or something.

    We need a total clean up on aisles 1-420

  134. 134.

    Kay

    media and Republicans gaslighting on the economy did a real number on young people.
    Young people are incredibly pessimistic and that’s a direct result of these assholes lying to them to elect Trump.
    There should be accountability for it – it was a shitty thing to do to 18 year olds who don’t yet know what frauds these people are.

  135. 135.

    cain

    @Ken:

    They can’t do that because then Trump supporters will start attacking each other thinking the other is a Soros paid plant.

  137. 137.

    Dave

    @Elizabelle: The idea beyond the immediate Trump must be defeated is that most will vote for a more normal but awful GOP or hopefully though unlikely replacement conservative party but also if some continue to vote for Democrats well people have this habit of picking up the beliefs of those they identify with some any that now having permission to vote for Democrats will continue to do so and hopefully pull a John Cole.

    The immigration issue is really disheartening but I don’t think it has a damned thing to do with GOP voters impacting the Democrat’s positions.

  139. 139.

    CaseyL

    @Omnes Omnibus: ​

    In her book about the first four months of WWI (“The Guns of August”), Barbara Tuchman describes how the international Socialist Movement was subsumed completely by war fervor.

    What had previously been an international movement toward socialism, with the express ideological purpose of eradicating the idea of nationalism, went all in on nationalism when Germany mobilized for war.

    And I don’t mean the socialists in the countries that Germany meant to attack became instant nationalists – that would have made a certain amount of sense! – it was the German socialists who became eager nationalistic warmongers.

    Humans are tribal. If you trip the correct triggers, all that Higher Order Thinking stops and tribal thinking takes over.

  144. 144.

    Dave

    @MisterForkbeard: That assumes that once they do become accustomed to voting for Democrats they don’t adopt mainstream Democratic positions. Which isn’t exactly unheard of hell look at crossover Trump voters because that may have started with a fear and hatred of HRC that very rapidly calcified into buying into the whole of Trumpism.

  145. 145.

    SatanicPanic

    @Kay: I think we operate on a different definition of “the economy” than other people do. We think of it in macroeconomic terms, like, “what’s the unemployment rate?”. Most people think of it in more personal terms, and in ways that don’t map on economic indicators. I don’t blame young people for being pessimistic. Imagine coming of age in the last 5-6 years. I’d be pessimistic too.

  146. 146.

    BR

    @Kay:

    What is striking to me is Latino voters in swing states have moved sharply right on immigration. I don’t know if it’s the “close the door behind you” mentality or what.

  147. 147.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Kay:

    @jonas:

    WHY is Harris campaigning with Cheney? To bring GOP voters in.
    It’s like you’re stopping at that act itself. What is the goal? More GOP voters.
    If you add limes to lemonade you’ve made a different drink. It moves the composition of the coalition Right

    At the risk of sounding like I’m trying to start a pissing contest (full disclosure: I’ve been off work nearly all week due to some sort of “bug” and, yes, I’m a bit grump this morning), I don’t get what your issue is here.

    Are you arguing that Democrats should NOT be welcoming Republican votes in order to maintain “purity”?

  148. 148.

    Soprano2

    @trollhattan: In MO it’s illegal for a government entity to tailor a purchase request like that. I knew one of our purchasing agents for the city; she said she’d get requests that you could tell had been tailored for one vendor, and she always rejected them because she could have gotten in trouble. I hope OK Democrats raise a big stink about this, it’s obvious corruption.

  149. 149.

    Dave

    @BR: Seeking legitimacy?  Kind of a classic pattern in American immigration history. With a side of “Well I did it right so screw those people who cheated” bucket of crabs style.

  150. 150.

    TBone

    @Kay: was it Dubya who advised us to go shopping? Grrrrtrrr we should be compensated for those propaganda crimes but pigs don’t yet fly.

  151. 151.

    Ken

    @cain: They can’t do that because then Trump supporters will start attacking each other thinking the other is a Soros paid plant.

    They’re already attacking one another, see BR‘s comment above. And there have been other incidents.

  152. 152.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    If they had been honest about the economy…

    Then what would the Orange Menace have to run on?

     

    They want him back and need that horse race.

  153. 153.

    Elizabelle

    @Captain C:   Yes!  Venezuela, fuckers!  They can catch a ride with their spraytan idol.

    @Dave:  I am hopeful there.  It could become a vote Democratic habit, or at least make some actual independents.

  154. 154.

    Baud

    @rikyrah: Not just the media. People believe what they want to believe. The propaganda sells because a lot of people don’t want to see progressive change, especially when it comes to the death of Reaganism.

  156. 156.

    J. Arthur Crank

    @Spanky:

     

    I can never recall I time when I’ve seen Liz Cheney look happy.

    Her father is Richard B. “Penis” Cheney. That is bound to make anyone sad.

  158. 158.

    Matt McIrvin

    @TBone:

    was it Dubya who advised us to go shopping?

    Hot take: people slag Bush a lot for that but among all the terrible things he did and said, I thought it actually wasn’t that bad a message for a country frightened of terrorists. He could have phrased it in a less mercenary way, but the fact that terrorism was not a large day-to-day danger for people going about their business, and that one of the best things we could do was just live our lives, was a reasonable thing to say. Most of the time, people like Cheney were saying the opposite: we needed to be terrified all the time and fight big wars to keep ourselves safe.

    Now, Trump tried the same message during the COVID pandemic and in that context it was actually wrong.

  159. 159.

    Bill Arnold

    @Baud:

    First I heard about the Purple Heart thing. Glad they’re getting their due.

    Weirdly, that was a case where Trump was saying something close to the truth, but in the pathologically callow manner typical for him.
    The Iranians very carefully calibrated their response to the US assassination of the head of a branch of Iran’s government; they used their most accurate missiles, and did not target populated structures at that airbase. Mr. Trump was not looking for reasons to continue to escalate (they were trying to be war-free for the election), and the many TBI’s were starting to look like a reason. Became moot when the Iranians themselves “de-escalated” when their twitchy air defenses, (legitimately) afraid of American F-35/etc attacks, accidentally shot down a civilian airliner (Ukrainian, with many children on board).

  160. 160.

    Trivia Man

    @Geminid: she has no desire to be president, IMHO. Happy to be in the cabinet or an advisor. Dad taught her well – shadow leader is best. All the power, more freedom to act, and less public grief.

  161. 161.

    TBone

    @catclub: a kid named Marcus went viral after that debate for schooling the nation from the Spin Room on what powers the VP does not possess.

  162. 162.

    BlueGuitarist

    From political wire

    https://politicalwire.com/2024/10/04/gop-lawmaker-tells-native-american-candidate-to-go-back/

    Idaho state Sen. Dan Foreman (R) told Trish Carter-Goodheart (D), a member of the Nez Perce tribe and a candidate for the state House, “to go back to where she came from” as he stormed out of a public event, Boise State Public Radio reports.
    Said Foreman: “I’m so sick and tired of this liberal bullshit! Why don’t you go back to where you came from?!”

  164. 164.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Soprano2:

    How can people not see how gross and unqualified and nutty TCFG is?

    I rarely and barely can even listen to the asshole much less watch a clip but here is example number infinity that if Trump was the guy at the end of the bar, the whole place would empty out…if a relative, you’d be anxiously seeking help and keeping him away from the children. Trump on the latest automobile technology:

    https://nitter.poast.org/atrupar/status/1841935220381044752#m

  165. 165.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: They leaned into inflation, because that’s what people notice on a day-to-day basis, and ignored everything else about the economy that was good. That’s how they did it.

  166. 166.

    TBone

    @Trivia Man:  she does not require recompense such as a cabinet position or any other advisory position.

    In direct contrast to the ball gargling thunder twat in her sights.

  167. 167.

    Suzanne

    @BR:

    At least among the never Trumper podcaster type cohort this seems to be happening. The spell was broken and some of them are signing on to centrist Dem ideas now.

     

    Agree.
    Cannot emphasize enough how much many people just want to be normal, in the center of whatever the electorate is. That’s a deep part of self-concept.

  168. 168.

    Dave

    @Bill Arnold: Trump has exactly two qualities that aren’t terrible though they come from pathetic places.

    1. He is extremely wary of using force against on a scale that might come back at him especially if an potential opponent has any strength whatsoever (this is because he is physical and moral coward that instinctively shy’s away from any risk as long that risk isn’t a result of his more pronounced pathology)
    2.  He will sign legislation a more standard GOP President might not as long as he can claim credit and put his name on it. For entirely selfish and self-interested reasons.
  169. 169.

    H.E.Wolf

    @BR: ​What is striking to me is Latino voters in swing states have moved sharply right on immigration. I don’t know if it’s the “close the door behind you” mentality or what.

     Tangentially, there are Latino voters whose families have lived within US current boundaries since before the US existed. Many of us are recent newcomers by comparison.

    And as said by other commenters, hostility by former immigrants to *newer* immigrants is as old as the hills.

  173. 173.

    Jeffro

    Jamelle Bouie brings the receipts: if immigrants are the all-purpose demons for trump/Vance, mass deportation is the miracle tonic

    If Trump is a classic American confidence man, then mass deportation is his miracle tonic — a magical tincture that treats all ailments and cures all maladies. And like any traveling salesman, Trump is careful not to mention the side effects of this potent treatment. But not only are there side effects; the potion doesn’t treat the disease and may kill the patient.

    It is obvious that mass deportation would be a humanitarian disaster — if past precedent is any indication of future results, the forced migration and detention of millions of people is very likely to kill thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of those caught in the dragnet of involuntary removal.

    If put into place, the plan would destroy communities and tear families apart. And given Trump’s hostility to birthright citizenship, there is every reason to think that his deportation regime would fall on American citizens as well, especially those with ties to the undocumented.

    A little less obvious is the extent to which mass deportation would plunge the United States into economic darkness

     

    During Tuesday’s debate, Vance said the Trump deportation plan would start with about one million alleged criminal offenders. To deport one million immigrants per year, the report says, “would incur an annual cost of $88 billion, with the majority of that cost going toward building detention camps.” Even assuming some measure of “self-deportation,” the federal government would have to build “hundreds to thousands of new detention facilities to arrest, detain, process and remove” all targeted immigrants, at an estimated cost of $66 billion per year.

    On top of that, the government would need to spend $7 billion per year to conduct the arrests, $12.6 billion per year to carry out legal processing for arrestees and an average of $2.1 billion to remove these immigrants from the country. None of this includes the cost of personnel, which could raise the overall price tag quite a bit. “Even carrying out one million at-large arrests per year,” the report says, “would require ICE to hire over 30,000 new law enforcement agents and staff, instantly making it the largest law enforcement agency in the federal government.” Assuming an average annual inflation rate of 2.5 percent, this deportation program would cost at least $967.9 billion over 10 years.

    For the cost of this program, the report notes, the United States could build more than 40,000 new elementary schools, construct more than 2.9 million new homes, pay full tuition and expenses for more than 8.9 million Americans to attend an in-state public college for four years, fund the Head Start program for most of the next century and buy a brand-new car for about 20.4 million people.

    Overall, the American Immigration Council concludes, “mass deportation would lead to a loss of 4.2 percent to 6.8 percent of annual U.S. G.D.P., or $1.1 trillion to $1.7 trillion in 2022 dollars.” For comparison’s sake, the country’s G.D.P. shrank by 4.3 percent during the Great Recession of 2007 to 2009. During that time, unemployment peaked at 10 percent. And high unemployment is associated with a broad range of social ills, including higher rates of poverty, food insecurity, addiction and premature death.

    At the low estimate, then, a mass deportation program would produce — for all Americans — a social and economic crisis comparable to the Great Recession. At the high estimate, it would produce an economic and social crisis that dwarfs anything experienced by Americans since the Great Depression.
    Vance tells us that mass deportation would lower demand. It would, in the sense that it would crash the economy.

    Whether or not it works to fix the problems at hand, and it doesn’t, the mass deportation of 20 million to 25 million people — which is to say the forced detention and relocation of about 6 percent to 8 percent of the current U.S. population — is a human rights abuse. It would make the United States a pariah state. And it would violate the fundamental principles of the American creed, the core belief that “all men are created equal,” that they are “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

  174. 174.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Suzanne:

    Cannot emphasize enough how much many people just want to be normal, in the center of whatever the electorate is. That’s a deep part of self-concept.

    Particularly for conservatives. Claiming the ground of normality and being worried about weirdos is core conservatism, and the idea that “normal” is changing and something might be replacing them as the new normal is one of their deepest fears.

    So giving them a way to embrace a slightly different normal, that is not really that far off from the way they are, and emphasizing the ways that Trump and his people are really very strange and freakish, is important.

    A lot of Very Online people are actively repelled by the idea of being normal, so playing on this sits poorly with them. I understand it because I am one of them in some ways. But, as Adlai Stevenson said, we need a majority.

  175. 175.

    Jackie

    @BlueGuitarist: I hope Foreman dies of humiliation!

    Nobody is going to resist asking him where’s “from where ‘you’ come” for Native Americans?

    Back to the Reservation? Most of Idaho IS on one Reservation or another!

  176. 176.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @Baud:

    We’re more rightward on immigration than ideal, but I thinks that following public sentiment rather than trying to win over the support of people like Liz Cheney.

    The anti-immigrant feelings are always lurking and not just with the racists in the Republican base. Right now, immigration moved up the top issues list mostly because the right-wing propaganda machine has been pounding it every day.

  177. 177.

    Another Scott

    @Kay: Democrats winning, and the GQP losing and getting weaker, moves the policy universe to the left.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  178. 178.

    oldgold

    Lordy!

    Superintendent Ryan Walters isn’t just talking about buying Bibles for schools.
    Bids opened Monday for a contract to supply the state Department of Education with 55,000 Bibles. According to the bid documents, vendors must meet certain specifications: Bibles must be the King James Version; must contain the Old and New Testaments; must include copies of the Pledge of Allegiance, Declaration of Independence, U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights; and must be bound in leather or leather-like material.
    A salesperson at Mardel Christian & Education searched, and though they carry 2,900 Bibles, none fit the parameters.
    But one Bible fits perfectly: Lee Greenwood’s God Bless the U.S.A. Bible, endorsed by former President Donald Trump and commonly referred to as the Trump Bible. They cost $60 each online, with Trump receiving fees for his endorsement.

  179. 179.

    Trivia Man

    @Scout211: very curious about turnout sunday in Juneau WI. Tiny, very red, county. The “airport” (check it on Google maps!) is in farm country. But Appleton, madison, and milwaukee ate only an hour’s drive. Could be very large. Ive heard they are bringing in a lot of picnic food. Free food? Vendors? 🤷🏽‍♀️

  180. 180.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Kay:

    Economy still booming, media and Republicans still denying it.

    Up means down!

    Aaron Rupar:
    @atrupar
    1h

    Maria Bartriomo hypothesizes that the stock market is way up again today not because of the strong jobs report, but because the economy is actually bad.

  181. 181.

    RaflW

    New Marquette poll of WI has dropped. Harris is holding steady at +4 (52-48), and Sen. Baldwin is gaining margin on Republican challenger Hovde.

    I wasn’t super worried about Tammy, but Cook still has her as Lean D which I think is silly, given this from keen WI politics watcher Dan Schafer: “The September Marquette poll showed a tightening race, with Eric Hovde coming within four percentage points of Baldwin, but the Democrat widened her lead in the latest poll, up by 7%. Hovde still has not led in a single Marquette poll.” (emphasis added)

  183. 183.

    trollhattan

    BBC:
    Fake ‘Kamala Harris ad’ used UK department store advert

    A false post claiming to show a pro-abortion campaign ad by Kamala Harris has been widely circulated on social media.

    BBC Verify has found that it was made by recycling an old advert for UK department store and adding an AI-generated voice over.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/cqjrwkw128no

  184. 184.

    Trivia Man

    @TBone: As I recall, the escalator crowd was suspiciously attractive. Much more like models and actors than a random crowd of candidate supports could ever be. That drew some closer inspection and digging which found they were hired.

  186. 186.

    Trivia Man

    @Ken: K-Pop! IIRC it was Tulsa and they had nearly a million reservations made. TCFG booked an overflow area with massive screens . They closed that area pretty quickly.

  187. 187.

    Captain C

    @oldgold:

    U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights

    This seems to imply that they don’t regard the Bill of Rights as a legit part of the Constitution.

  188. 188.

    Geminid

    @jonas: That could be a factor, but this war is not all about us. Knowledgeble Turkish and Arab commentators rarely even mention its connection to US politics, even though they know this situation and the larger conflict underlying it better than do Americans.

  191. 191.

    Jeffg166

    @TBone:

    It wasn’t the mail carriers fault it was the central post office. It’s not like a lot of these ballot envelopes aren’t going through there on their way to the county board daily.

    My neighbor insists it was an honest mistake. I don’t know how anyone could ignore the address it is to go to and send it to the return address. That’s doesn’t compute.

  193. 193.

    narya

    @Trivia Man: Hah! I had no idea about the Taylor Ham/Pork roll debate; we always called it pork roll (NW NJ), though it did say “Taylor Ham” right on the package.

  195. 195.

    TBone

    @narya: I remember when my dad brought home our first package of Taylor Pork Roll in the 70s and fried it in a frying pan.  The aroma made me leave the house until it cleared – blech!

    I do have a favorite diner on the way down the shore – is it the Circle Diner?   Wonder if it’s still there….

  196. 196.

    Suzanne

    @Matt McIrvin:

    A lot of Very Online people are actively repelled by the idea of being normal, so playing on this sits poorly with them. I understand it because I am one of them in some ways. But, as Adlai Stevenson said, we need a majority. 

    Lots of us on this side of the political aisle, I think, grew up feeling somewhat alienated in terms of values, worldview, religion, etc…. and even if we didn’t like it, we’re more comfortable being outside the norm.

    Also, there’s a ton of cowardice, hypocrisy, spinelessness that’s often on display when people try to be so conformist. Honestly, it’s hard for me not to be full of scorn. But that doesn’t accomplish anything.

  197. 197.

    Bill Arnold

    @Dave:

    He is extremely wary of using force against on a scale that might come back at him especially if an potential opponent has any strength whatsoever

    Yep.
    An evilly funny consequence of the Trump-ordered assassination of Soleimani is that Trump will have to spend the rest of his life (or until he is deep into dementia) worrying about Iranian assassins. They need not do anything real, just chatter a bit on US monitored communication channels, and maybe make occasional veiled threats. There’s already been some of this.

  198. 198.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Jackie: This isn’t the first incident like that I’ve heard of.

    The racism about Native Americans out West is just off the charts and it’s something people on the East Coast often don’t viscerally feel.

    I remember my dad talking about it as an unexamined bigotry that he was forced to confront in himself as a young man, and that conversation had a big effect on me, as a model for “doing the work”, so to speak.

  199. 199.

    BlueGuitarist

    @Jackie:

    last line of the Boise Public Radio report:
    Indigenous people, including the Nez Perce tribe, have lived in the Columbia River Basin for thousands of years. Foreman was born in Lake Forest, Illinois.

    Idaho nests 2 state house districts in a state senate district. The event had the candidates for the 2 state house seats and state senate. The racist guy, Foreman, is the state senator, Trish Carter-Goodheart is running for state house, her Republican opponent agreed with her description of events.
    republican  leaning district, but includes the Nez Percé reservation and Moscow, ID, so lots of young people at U of Idaho. Maybe this will boost local turnout favorably.

  200. 200.

    Baud

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I don’t feel normal, but I’m not a religious zealot about it. The important thing is that people get to live their lives without harassment or discrimination, if they’re not harming anybody else.

  202. 202.

    TS

    @Captain C:

    This seems to imply that they don’t regard the Bill of Rights as a legit part of the Constitution.

    But it also seems to imply that the regard the Constitution  as part of the bible. Sure wasn’t like that when I went to Sunday school (only place I was taught about the bible)

  203. 203.

    Mark’s Bubbie

    @narya: Probably Roberto’s. Food is good but a little pricey. My husband and I prefer Cafe 360 across the street. Lots of good options for lunch & dinner too. (Come to Freehold! Spend money!)

  205. 205.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Suzanne: I grew up in what was then a very red area, and the concept that “most people are either right-wing evangelical Christians or very devout Catholics or Mormons, and we’re not, but you have to be very careful what you say about certain subjects or even most of your friends will absolutely flip out” was drilled into me from an early age.

    To the point that, while when I’m talking about inconsequential nerd nonsense I have trouble modulating my voice in public, it still makes me very nervous when my family members start talking about religion or politics when not behind closed doors.

  210. 210.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I agree, young people were sold the idea that they’re the first generation who ever had to struggle to get ahead! Did they think they were going to get the high-paying cushy job and big house in the suburbs with ease when they were 23? No generation has ever done that! When I hear all this whining about not being able to afford an apartment, I know it’s tough but Jesus Christ I NEVER was able to afford to live by myself before I got married! I always had at least one roommate, and for three years I lived in a house with two other women!  This was back in the 1980’s, when the economy was mostly a lot worse than it is now and interest rates were still around 8-10%. I’m not “down on the kids”, but they were sold this idea and they bought it hook, line and sinker.

  211. 211.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Soprano2: I came of age during the early 1990s recession and I remember a lot of rhetoric then that was the same thing told to Millennials and GenZers: we were “the first generation ever to be worse off than our parents”.

    Then there was the Long Boom of the late 1990s and all that went down the memory hole. Now we’re Old Economy Steve.

    That said… prices relative to the average wage really are different than they used to be. Consumer goods, even things that older Americans instinctively consider luxury items, got very cheap*; on the other hand, housing and higher education and health care have gotten far more expensive.

    (But the fact that credit used to be very expensive is a good point, and to some extent offsets that trend.)

    *(until the sudden burst of inflation/supply-chain trouble associated with the COVID pandemic and recovery therefrom, but really, even items formerly considered “fancy” are still affordable)

  212. 212.

    satby

    Statement on the suspension of the longshoremen strike:

    “To show you that we are committed to servicing America, we came up with a deal today with the assistance of the Biden Administration, the Assistant Secretary of Labor, Pete Buttigieg, and everybody else who were instrumental in getting all the parties together.”

  213. 213.

    cain

    @Ken: Yeah I saw that. But that’s only incident I’ve seen so far.

    Nothing on what lead to the altercation. I mean it’s probably people fighting over grift.

  215. 215.

    Soprano2

    @Matt McIrvin: If you had told me in the 1980’s that eventually there would be coffee shops where regular people would daily pay $3-5 for a cup, I would have said you were nutty, and there are a lot better things to spend your money on.

    Hubby and I have talked about how it costs more to be middle class now than it did when we were kids – you need 2 or 3 cars, more than one TV, everyone has a cell phone, you’ve got streaming or cable or satellite TV, and so on. So I understand that. What pisses me off is all the talk about how people in their 20’s will never get ahead because the economy is so bad, because that’s just not true!!!! Bad is what I encountered when I graduated college in 1983, when the unemployment rate was over 8% and you’d better take the first job you’re offered because there’s no telling when you’ll be offered another one. I know someone who got laid off from her job two weeks ago, and she already has another job nailed down! That was unheard of when I was young.

  218. 218.

    Misterpuff

     

    @jonas:

     I don’t get this whole showing up to a Trump rally and then getting bored and leaving 20 minutes in.

     

    What’s implied is that these are not MAGA diehards but paid seat fillers that can leave after a set time (or leave once the Venmo payment hits their phones).

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