Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

You cannot love your country only when you win.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

This really is a full service blog.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

T R E 4 5 O N

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

So many bastards, so little time.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

The republican caucus is covering themselves with something, and it is not glory.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

People are weird.

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

Celebrate the fucking wins.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Tuesday Night Open Thread: An Inspiration to Us All

Tuesday Night Open Thread: An Inspiration to Us All

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Inspirational… in a different sense:


Guess TFG’s been listening to his new buddy Elon whinging about ‘overpaid, complaining’ auto workers again…


Tuesday Night Open Thread: An Inspiration to Us All
(Ten thousand likes, 3.4 thousand reposts — so far)

Reader Interactions

157Comments

  2. 2.

    Elizabelle

    Shawn Fain knows.

    Also, may Jimmy Carter celebrate Kamala’s election, inauguration, and more happiness besides.

  6. 6.

    David Fud

     
    Eyewitness account: I didn’t vote here in Georgia today because the lines were too long. We are gonna put Kamala in the White Housea and I am going to enjoy every minute of her laughing at them.

  7. 7.

    Gin & Tonic

    I’m no political expert, but somehow I think it’s not a good sign if your opponent is using verbatim clips/quotes of you in their campaign ads.

  8. 8.

    dmsilev

    That ‘town hall’ last night was quite something, even by his standards. Somehow I’m not surprised that he and his handlers backed out of a second debate; he’s gone downhill noticeably just in the last month or so.

  9. 9.

    KatKapCC

    I want to call Trump a piece of shit, but that feels unfair to shit, most of which was at one time something useful.

  12. 12.

    WaterGirl

    I 💕 Shawn Fein. That is all.

    edit: Okay, that’s apparently not all.

    Shawn Fein is exactly who the unions and the country need in that role right now.

  13. 13.

    Kent

    We live in a fucked up country and who the hell knows how this will all come out.

    But I gotta say.  I’ve been watching elections and voting since Reagan and honestly I think the Harris campaign on very short order has put together the best Democratic campaign I have ever seen.  Or at least a campaign that is tied with Obama 2008.

    I don’t see any major mistakes they have made.  It has been pitch perfect.  And they have run roughshod over every GOP attempt to swift boat, emails, Hunter Biden them.  And have basically just chosen not to play Trump’s games.

    If we lose this election it won’t be for any strategic errors on the part of the Harris campaign.  It will be because the voters didn’t do their part

    The Harris campaign folks are pretty anonymous right now.  But when this is all over I expect they will be the new stars overshadowing the Pod Save America guys and especially the old Clinton folks like Carville.

  14. 14.

    moonbat

    Bless Jimmy Carter. I am very glad he hit his goal. May he live long enough to see fascists in America soundly defeated next month.

  15. 15.

    Birdie

    Is Trump being unable to answer questions the October surprise? Surely there are whispers and rumours flying along the campaign staff and Republican reps “granted anonymity to speak candidly” about all this.

    Where’s Olivia Nuzzi when you need her?

  16. 16.

    Gloria DryGarden

    A friend took a photo today of a pumpkin colored cybertruck in Cherry Creek. That’s a swanky well to do shopping and residential area in east Denver. ( you have to drive carefully there, because someone might cut you off in their Jaguar).
    Unbelievable.

    unattractive.

    eew

  17. 17.

    Thor Heyerdahl

    @Kent: I expect they will be the new stars overshadowing the Pod Save America guys and especially the old Clinton folks like Carville.

    May it be so…may I never have to listen to the ragin’ Cajun again.

  18. 18.

    Chet Murthy

    I watch that video from DeKalb County, and I think about how blessed I am, that I get my ballot sent in the mail -automatically- and can just fill it out and drop it in the mailbox, here in California. Sigh.  The future is here; it’s just not evenly distributed.  Is California the future or is DeKalb County?  Sigh (again).

    I guess that’s what we’re voting on this year.

  20. 20.

    Chet Murthy

    @KatKapCC: Y’know, I’d have all the respect for her if she’d done this thing with RFKJr as a catfishing thing: imagine if she and Lizza had a joint-authored piece about how they’d fooled RFKJr and all!  But no, she had to actually turn a work into a  shoot.  Idiot.  Moral idiot.

  23. 23.

    Birdie

    @KatKapCC: Probably so. Though realistically the “too school for cool” crowd probably wouldn’t think that Trump’s rapid decline is “news”.

    But did you know that Biden is still old and maybe a bit upset at how things went down? Now those are off-the-record rumors worth reporting.

  25. 25.

    hitchhiker

    I’m enjoying the spectacle of his highly-paid fluffers getting on the teevee to shout about how sharp he reallyreallyreally IS.

    Looking at you, Laura Ingraham.

    I still remember what she was texting with Tucker and Shawn on Jan 6th. She knows better, but she just can’t bring herself to say anything true when the cameras are on.

    It’s delicious, and it will be even more so when Harris wins and trump bumbles off into the distance.

  27. 27.

    Chet Murthy

    @KatKapCC: If I were someone who cared about her, I’d be -so- embarrassed for her.  But since I DGAF, I only want her to suffer as much as possible.

  29. 29.

    Seanly

    @Kent:

    Yes, I think they did a bunch of good stuff on short notice. Harris’ campaign for the nomination 4 years ago was nowhere as good as this.
    I do worry that she hasn’t danced with who brung ya enough. I appreciate reaching out to Republicans who might be done with Trump but seems like she hasn’t 100% shored up a lot of the portions of the Democratic base.
    I hope she’ll win and I hope the stuff we’re seeing in the polls right now is just bad polling (not counting any new registrations as that doesn’t count as a likely voter) and people playing sheninagans with the betting markets.

  30. 30.

    TS

    @Chet Murthy:

    I watch that video from DeKalb County, and I think about how blessed I am, that I get my ballot sent in the mail -automatically- and can just fill it out and drop it in the mailbox, here in California.

    On the other side of the world we have a state election in 2 weeks. I drove down (probably should have walked) to the local church hall & voted. There were more staff than voters.

    How much voter suppression is there, that these queues are so long?

  31. 31.

    Chet Murthy

    @TS:

    (1) voting machines, not paper ballots

    (2) lots and lots of things to vote for, so it takes -time-

    (3) and of course, not enough machines

    100% agree with you.  I talk with my French friend, read about things in Canada, and basically, elections are expected to be resolved the same damn night.  B/c you don’t have 100 different things to vote for.  We have so many damn elections, and so many damn things to vote for in each one. People get -exhausted- with it.  Which is a form of voter suppression, too.

  32. 32.

    KatKapCC

    @TS: In these cases, I don’t think these lines are long necessarily solely because of voter suppression. This is early voting, so these folks are eager and excited to get out and vote right away.

  33. 33.

    Chet Murthy

    @Chet Murthy: here in CA we have machine-tabulated ballots, but they’re hand-marked.  So you get your ballot, go to a little station (with cardboard dividers so nobody can see), mark your ballot, then take it to the people with the (one) machine, and they feed it in.  Then you get your sticker and you’re done.  Until there’s actually a line for the machine, they can expand the number of stations pretty much infinitely, b/c it’s just a little stand with a writing surface and cardboard dividers around it.

    IIUC in GA it’s a machine per person.  Much more difficult to scale up.  I’m sure that’s on purpose.

  34. 34.

    Jay

    @Seanly:

    right now, there are sixty shit polls being promoted by Republican operatives.

    The GOP knows from internal polling that Trump’s in trouble, and that they have to shore him up. That’s why they’re flooding us with partisan polls—60 GOP leaning ones, all paid for by Republicans and dropped into the mix recently, all in the battleground states.

    Republicans know that Democrats love nothing more than panicking and running around with their hair on fire at the slightest hint of bad news — and so they’re exploiting that.

    don’t expect the worthless scribblers of the corporate-controlled media to explain that you’re being manipulated. they’re playing right along, breathlessly hyping each new poll, and predicting nothing but gloom and doom for Kamala. they crave drama. they need a horse-race.

    these fuckwads did this to us in 2022, remember? a red wave is coming, they warned us. it’s going to be a fifty-megaton disaster for the Democrats! they showed us poll after poll that proved their point.

    we all know how that worked out.

    https://www.jefftiedrich.com/p/the-polls-and-the-press-want-you

  35. 35.

    Chet Murthy

    @Jay: I remember 2022.   And the big difference (for me) was (1) the gubernatorial in VA (and NJ) that was so disheartening, and (2) the polls were bad for -months- before the election.  This time, they seem to have left it too late, so it’s obvious what’s going on.

    And besides, it’s either work for 20 days from now, or ….. give up and …. what?  It’s a little too late to try to discourage people now … I would hope.

  36. 36.

    Jay

    @Chet Murthy:

    Yup.

    Some will give up, others will get enraged.

    Here in BC, now that the media is actually taking a look at the United Conservative Party candidates, (wingnuts) and their scandals, support is dropping.

  37. 37.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Birdie: Yes, wasn’t one of our Media Betters just in here telling us that Maggie Halberman has the inside story with Trumps?

  38. 38.

    wjca

    @Chet Murthy: We have so many damn elections, and so many damn things to vote for in each one.

    But part of that is voters cramming stuff onto the ballot because their legislature didn’t do it.  Or did it wrong.

    Yes, a lot of the initiatives in California are ridiculous.  Most of the time.  But realistically, how long does it take to mark No on them?

    But consider the folks in red states, forcing everything from abortion rights to anti-gerrymandering onto the ballot.  Sure, if they were smart, they’d vote different people into their legislatures, so they wouldn’t have to.  But since they aren’t, initiatives give them an option.  Which, after all, why initiatives got created in the first place.

  39. 39.

    frog

    @TS:

    How much voter suppression is there, that these queues are so long?

    A related question is: How many millionaires have to wait in lines this long?

  40. 40.

    Dangerman

    If I make it just over 100, I see Halley’s Comet again. 1986 was kinda ho hum; from this link:

    Halley’s Comet is the only known naked-eye comet that can appear twice in a human lifetime. When it comes back in 2061 to visit us again it will be much brighter as its path swings between Earth and the sun. It is likely to be “as big as five moons” again.

    There’s a joke about TCFG’s ass in there but I’ll skip it.

  41. 41.

    Chet Murthy

    @frog: I live in Noe Valley.  17yr now.  I’ve never waited more than 10min at my polling station, which is usually 2blocks away.  I watch these vids of lines going for blocks and blocks (on Election Day) and it’s like from another planet.  They do this on purpose: under-provisioning voting machines for these urban precincts.  You can bet hard money that the wait in rural districts in Georgia will be short.

  42. 42.

    eclare

    I just watched Rep. Jasmine Crockett on Colbert, and she was excellent.  She gave a very clear and convincing answer when asked what her message for the next three weeks would be.

    So far all I see on YouTube is a clip, but I’m sure the entire interview will be up shortly.

  43. 43.

    eclare

    @Chet Murthy:

    I can’t remember if it was 92 or 96 (I think it was 92) when I waited 2 1/2 hours to vote in DeKalb County GA.  There was no early voting then, hopefully these lines will get shorter.

    Early voting starts here in Memphis tomorrow, but I’ll wait til next week.

  45. 45.

    frog

    @Chet Murthy:

    You can bet hard money that the wait in rural districts in Georgia will be short.

    You can also bet hard money that if they have to take time off work to wait in line, they will not be fired.

  47. 47.

    Chet Murthy

    @frog: many years ago, I think Atrios wrote about his time registering people to vote in a poor nbhd of Philly.  He made it clear just how many obstacles these people had between them and the voting booth, how -hard- it was for them to vote.  Sigh.   And here in CA, it’s just so goddamn -easy-.  You don’t even have to -request- a ballot: one just -comes to you-.

  51. 51.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Chet Murthy:

    Nothing enrages me more about US domestic politics than the fact that the poor everywhere still have to struggle to cast their ballot. It’s simply appalling and from that fact much social and economic hardship flows.

    This needs to be top of the list if, heaven help us, the Dems win both houses.

    I’m confident Harris/Walz will win the Presidential.

  53. 53.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Chet Murthy: might be a long wait, fewer voting machines, few and far between, that’s what thought. Esp in areas w majority of black people. So folks without a car are screwed.

    in Denver, we used to have those voting machines. You had 3 minutes to do it, I think, am I remembering this right?

    You went in with all the answers prepared, written on the back of an envelope or something. Yes on A, yes on B, no on C, no on 1a, etc.. we have almost 20 propositions and referenda this time.

    I might need a week to work through all of, read my booklet, compare to the folks on the Colorado page. Much like California, we all get mailed a ballot. But the tabulating machines are elsewhere.

    The drop offs and the vote  in situ ballots are all the same, and go into a locked metal box w a slot. Those are picked up by bipartisan teams, and shuttled downtown where other teams check for signature verification, and run them through the tabulators.

    I don’t trust those voting machines; something happened on my screen that wasn’t how I was voting. I didn’t see it change, but I went back through and double checked everything, proofread it, like I would do on a math test. And it showed a light for bush. I would never vote for bush.
    I don’t know what happened. But gosh I trust the paper ballots more.

  56. 56.

    Aussie Sheila

    @NotMax:

    Well not completely actually. Otherwise you wouldn’t have been able to enact the VRA. And while I know Roberts all but eviscerated it, I’m not so sure a new one couldn’t be designed that met the ‘equal dignitude of states’ test set by that arsehole.

    In any case it simply must be attempted. States don’t have rights, they have sovereignties. People have rights, and without a free, fair and honestly counted ballot, they have no effective rights at all.

  58. 58.

    sab

    When I moved back to Ohio in 1999 we could vote within a half mile of my house. My parents could vote on the next block. My parents were very upper middle class. I am mid-middle class. We live in a blue city in a red state.

    Now I vote either early at the board of elections, or two miles away at a church. Ditto for where my parents lived. Now you cannot vote in this town without a car unless you want to spend at least an hour riding buses and walking. And unless you trust the mail (I no longer do) you cannot absentee vote without hauling yourself to the board of elections. A friend or relative cannot drop off your ballot for you; you have to do it in person.

  59. 59.

    TBone

    Our County website notice:

    10/1/24

    Union County voters that have requested a Mail-in/Absentee ballot for the November 5, 2024 General Election, should expect to receive the ballot the week of October 6th.

    No ballots yet received.  Of course I have checked to be sure we’re both still registered.  Gah!  Calling County office today.

  60. 60.

    Jay

    @Steve in the ATL:

    so what the hell is wrong with IBT President Sean O’Brien?

    Still butthurt about the Democratic Party not sucking up to the Union’s Senior Management. The Irish keep grudges like other families keep heirlooms.

  61. 61.

    Geminid

    @Aussie Sheila: The Voting Rights Act still has teeth. Alabama was forced to redistrict this cycle in order to add a second majority-Black district in its southern portion. I think Louisiana did also because of a VRA lawsuit. Virginia did the same in 2016 and redistricted 11 House of Delegates seats before the 2019 elections because of a VRA lawsuit.

    But Congress still needs to pass legislation reenacting the VRA preclearance provision that the Shelby decision ended.

  62. 62.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Geminid:

    From my limited understanding Roberts’ objection appeared to be the ‘arbitrary’ nature of the burden of preclearance on certain states and districts(?).

    What if every state and electorate/county for the purposes of a federal election had to bear the same burden; ie fair and impartial redistricting based on congruence of interest? That’s the way it’s done here. By an impartial Australian Electorate Commission that no elected politician of any kind can get within cooee of.

  63. 63.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Jay:

    He’s a perfect heir to the tradition that that union has had for decades. Unfortunately unions covering workers in industries with very low costs of capital entry are always pretty corrupt or otherwise useless.

  66. 66.

    Jay

    @Aussie Sheila:

    Unfortunately, the 80’s, 90’s and 2000’s left a lot of the lower entry Industry Unions faced with an issue.

    Keep wages, pensions and benefits for existing members, (with some cuts) in exchange for entry level employees getting minimum wage.

    The sad thing is, when it was put to a member vote, every time, the Union members screwed over the new employees.

  67. 67.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Aussie Sheila:

    As an example from Downunder, the Construction union here is engulfed in scandal and corruption stemming from the chaotic and under-regulated nature of the contracting and sub contracting that has plagued that industry for years here.

    Wherever there is lack of government interest in regulating an industry, there you will find either weak or corrupt unions.
    Which are of course synonymous.

  69. 69.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Jay:

    It’s always the same everywhere. Which is why a union movement that doesn’t attach itself to winning electoral power over government is always going to be fucked. As I wrote here some time ago, US unions made a strategic decision in the late 19th/early 20th century to eschew forming their own political machine.
    I believe that was a mistake, but it was their decision and is now part of US labor tradition. I make no comment on the decisions of those people at that time in respect of their good faith judgement.

    The costs to US Labor and the US liberal tradition generally however has been very high, in my opinion. And that cost has been borne not just by the US working class, but by the international working class generally.

  70. 70.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Gloria DryGarden:

    Your federal bureaucracy is, which is why Project 2025 is focussed on dismantling it. I’m afraid that a certain amount of state power and its enforcement is fundamental to guaranteeing freedom and rights for everyone. This is something that even US liberals sometimes seem to fail to grasp.

  71. 71.

    Baud

    @Aussie Sheila: It’s been a long time since I’ve been to LGM, but the labor guy there, Loomis, has expressed this same idea.

     

     

    @Aussie Sheila: Agreed. During the Bush years, a bunch of left leaning liberals thought they could have some sort of alliance with libertarians, which was understandable, given the circumstances. But too much libertarianism has rubbed off on some of us.

  72. 72.

    Jay

    @Aussie Sheila:

    Here, we have “Red Seal”.

    In some ways, it’s a PITA, 3 year retesting for the Trades, at a cost.

    You basically get a self inking round stamp with your number on it, that you have to apply to structure, (electrical, plumbing, framing, HVAC, etc) that pegs back to your Red Seal Certs.

    The back up to this, is building inspectors, WCB, permit’s and inspections, (City or District) which can be an issue.

    The follow up to this is the Insurance Companies. No Red Seal, no insurance for loss.

    Lot’s of “gyppo”* fly by night contractors out there, but if you have a “Red Seal” in any of the trades, you can get a job for 5-10 years on one project alone, because of all the building going on, good wages, good benefits, mostly Union.**

    *In BC, “gyppo” dates back to the late 1800’s when there was lots of illegal logging.

    **It’s easier for all the major projects to deal with a Union than independent trades.

  73. 73.

    thruppence

    Good for Jimmy! I raise my glass of fizzy water to his health. I hope this makes the news nationwide. May he have a revered place at Kamala’s inauguration.

  74. 74.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Baud:

    Yes, libertarianism allied to the Labor movement was once called the IWW. Which was a revolutionary Labor tradition highly influential in both Australia and the US. In Australia it was influential in the formation of the Australian Communist Party which had a huge influence on our Labor movement despite conservative government’s determination to outlaw the Party. Which they failed to do, twice in succeeding referendums at the height of the Cold War.

    In the US the IWW was similarly radical and organised the same layer of the 19th C proletariat as Australia, but it eschewed any kind of electoral organisation.
    In Australia conservative unions and some radical unions formed the Australian Labor Party, while the hardcore IWW merged into the Australian Communist Party after 1917, particularly in the early 1920s when that highly influential Party was formed.

    The history of the U.S. and Australian Labor movements have been highly intertwined although they have had radically different outcomes for their respective working and lower middle classes.

  75. 75.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    The thing about Trump saying “we could have our child” assemble a car is the GOP wants to bring back child labor so he’s not speaking hypothetically.

  76. 76.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Kent: Agree. If she loses it’s because America is still too misogynist to elect a woman president. Not because of anything her campaign did wrong. Not a single misstep that the media could latch onto – no she’s too old, emailz, too strident/bitchy/doesn’t smile enough bullshit. It’s been a great campaign.

  78. 78.

    Aussie Sheila

    @What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    You are thinking too literally. He means he has no fucking idea about manufacturing work and doesn’t care to find out. Which is something the relevant unions should hammer him about from here to 5th November.
    Absolutely hammer the fuckwit, every day, in every way.

    That takes real $s in the US and the US union movement needs to spend theirs wisely hammering this moron criminal at every point on this issue.

  80. 80.

    Jay

    @Aussie Sheila:

    He means he has no fucking idea about manufacturing work and doesn’t care to find out.

    Nepo Baby has never had a real job in his life.

    In theory he is going to a MikeyD’s to work the deep fryer this week to “prove” that MVP Kamala Harris lied about working at a MickeyD’s.

    So if he’s more brown in his face this weekend, it’s probably because of grease burns, if he doesn’t coward out on this stunt like the interviews.

  82. 82.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Jay:

    It is to laugh. In any even moderately politically literate electorate such a stunt by such an obvious phony crim would be a game ender.

  83. 83.

    Jay

    @Aussie Sheila:

    I would work a “grunt” job in a heartbeat, had most of them, just to prove as a politician as a supporter of labour,

    But if you are going to diss your opponent for claiming to have worked a job, there are much better ways to do it rather than stunting,

    if he stunts, which he won’t, he can’t even bus people back from his events or pay for food. Broke ass chisler MF.

  84. 84.

    ColoradoGuy

    @Aussie Sheila: TFG has no fucking idea about cars. I’d be amazed if he’s driven any car in the last twenty years, and he’s certainly never maintained one. For the rest of us, though, we don’t live in a Manhattan townhouse with live-in servants who prepare every meal on demand, and get whisked around town in a chauffeur-driven limo.

    The rest of us must drive cars or trucks if we’re going to work and eat. This is not a choice in 95% of the USA. Because of this, we find out at a young age how insanely complex cars are, and how you have to stay on top of them if you don’t want to be stranded in the middle of nowhere (or a bad part of town). They are complex and often temperamental must-have pieces of machinery.

    TFG knows nothing of this. He’s never changed a tire, or gotten a shocking bill from a mechanic to keep an essential vehicle running. To him, a car is a flashy toy, something to be thrown away if you get bored with it. Servants drive them, and even more anonymous people deal with service and maintenance. No surprise he has no idea what it takes to build them.

  85. 85.

    K-Mo

    LOL That CNBC guy is flummoxed.  It was supposed to be a softball interview and it turned out to be a cheesy playlist.

  87. 87.

    Soprano2

    @Kent: I think what you said about the Harris campaign not playing TCFG’s game is the key. They’ve also mostly refused to knuckle under to press demands that they do things.

  88. 88.

    Baud

    @Soprano2:

    The short campaign season helps her. It helped Obama in 2008. The media was gearing up for Hillary that year.

    Media attack themes usually take a while to develop and solidify.

  89. 89.

    Gvg

    @KatKapCC: Fertilizer. Amy farmer or gardener will tell you it’s valuable stuff. I recall a humorous garden essay where the writer recalled a kind gift from a friend who understood him of a load of manure for Christmas and his list of the plants he chose to spend some of it on. Which ones needed some pick me up, and his favorite Irises. Trump just scares me. I also don’t understand the attraction of horror movies….

  91. 91.

    TS

    @NotMax:

    Used to be similar in Australia – and you had to register with 2 different applications for Feds/State. I didn’t know this the first time I moved interstate and found myself on state register for one state & federal register for the other. With compulsory voting, that was interesting.

    Fortunately this got sorted in the 1970s & you only register once, but the states run their elections, Feds run theirs – they are not held at the same time.

  92. 92.

    Chris T.

    @Chet Murthy:

    here in CA we have machine-tabulated ballots, but they’re hand-marked. So you get your ballot, go to a little station (with cardboard dividers so nobody can see), mark your ballot, then take it to the people with the (one) machine, and they feed it in.

    The first time I voted in Calif (1992 I guess, I moved there in 1991) there was a rather long queue to get to the card punch station, where we had to use a manual punch tool to punch chads out of a card, like the old computer cards (except not face-down 9-edge-forward and not the same shape).

    Later, there were paper ballots and special pens, and presumably optical reader machines like the old Scantron devices from the late 1970s.

    After that I moved states (several times over the years); when I was back in Calif it was mailed paper ballots, marked with any old pen and put in mail-or-drop-box (I had some convenient drop boxes I used). Now I am in Washington State and it’s the same idea, mailed paper, although they wait a little too long to mail them out: it will be another couple of days yet. As before I have a very convenient drop-box near me.

    I like the mailed-ballot systems. They give a lot more time to work over a longer ballot (e.g., one with too many initiatives and/or judge-slots or whatever). There’s no queuing up with people exhaling COVID everywhere.

  93. 93.

    RevRick

    @SpaceUnit: This morning’s Marist National poll of likely voters:

    Harris 52-47 +5% over Trump, up from a two point margin earlier in the month.

  94. 94.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Baud:

    My thoughts exactly. The ‘short campaign’ by US standards has actually assisted her imo. Not much time for the slime machine to do its work. Here at home, a six week campaign is the standard, but of course Party leaders are normally very well known beforehand because a Parliamentary career is a must for any aspiring national or State Party leader in any Party, with the exception of Bob Hawke who had had a long career in the Aust. Union movt, but whose career doesn’t bear much close scrutiny if you care about arseholes that shop the Left of their movement to the us Embassy as he did.

    It’s instructive that Obama had been in the Senate only four years before he made his run. On the other hand, I think his relative lack of experience showed once it came to governing, whereas Biden’s deep experience and relationships actually assisted him in achieving a pretty good domestic agenda.

    I know I’m biased by my own political experience and traditions, but I still believe in strong parties and strong local/state organisation which is relatively independent of charismatic wannnabees that want to make a splash.

    But that’s just me.

  96. 96.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Baud:

    I understand wanting to dump ‘party bosses’, but strong party organisations don’t necessarily mean ‘bosses’. They often mean strong, democratic collective organisation that can think and act and be highly effective in very adverse circumstances.

  97. 97.

    Ken

    @Aussie Sheila: From my limited understanding Roberts’ objection appeared to be the ‘arbitrary’ nature of the burden of preclearance on certain states and districts(?).

    Well, it was “arbitrary” in the same sense that some people are put on probation when they commit a crime, while others are not put on probation because they didn’t. IIRC, the law even had a provision to remove states or districts from the oversight list if they managed to go some period without violating the law, but some states somehow managed to remain on it for decades.

  98. 98.

    Ken

    @Aussie Sheila: Not much time for the slime machine to do its work.

    It was however instructive to see the slime machine trying. Harris not including her stint at McD’s on her legal resume has to top the list of desperate attempts, with the sinister fact that Walz was married on the anniversary of Tiananmen Square a close second.

  99. 99.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Ken:

    Yes I understand the objection to the ruling of the reactionary arsehole but the point is to find a way around it, if possible.
    Unless and until the US liberal/centre left are able  to entrench an easy, fair and transparent balloting system your elections will always hold terror for your own working class and the rest of the international liberal and social democratic left.
    It’s got to end.

    For a country that bleats about its love of democracy, it sure doesn’t seem to pay attention to its most basic constituent. A fair and equal secret ballot accessible to all on the same basis everywhere for everyone.

  101. 101.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Aussie Sheila:

    From my limited understanding Roberts’ objection appeared to be the ‘arbitrary’ nature of the burden of preclearance on certain states and districts(?).

    The crucial understanding is that Roberts believes that institutional racism is over, to the extent it ever existed.  You have to clear a high bar to make him believe anything is race based, so discrimination against white people is the real problem.  Discriminating against Democrats is technically not illegal.  Still, he can be convinced of individual examples of discrimination against blacks, it’s just not easy.

    In general, Roberts has a difficult time imagining vulnerable people or their suffering.  It just can’t be that bad.

  102. 102.

    Ken

    A Washington Post columnist decides to simply quote Trump’s answer to a town-hall question about inflation. (archive.ph link, don’t know how long it will last.)

    I saw this linked at Bluesky, where one of the responses was “my man’s basically an LLM at this point […] linguistic procedural memory chugging merrily along with little to no executive function constraining it”.

  103. 103.

    gene108

    I watched most of the Trump Chicago interview. Trump thinks tariffs will be the greatest thing in the world. He wants to slap high tariffs on EU products, because the EU treats us poorly, in his opinion.

    Interviewer brought foreign car brands built in the USA. Trump said what he said about the BMW plant in SC.

    Trump has the mindset of an asshole small businessman who nickel and dimes suppliers and treats employees poorly.

    His response on cutting government waste was about he personally negotiated with Boeing to knock $1.7 billion off the price of a new Air Force One.

    And I’m left wondering about how he thinks government officials or him personally should go back and renegotiate every vendor contract to save 25% would work in practical terms. It’s mind boggling and basically the attitude of an asshole small business owner, not that of a President.

  105. 105.

    SFAW

    @hitchhiker: ​

    I’m enjoying the spectacle of his highly-paid fluffers getting on the teevee to shout about how sharp he reallyreallyreally IS.

    Your Trump Derangement Syndrome is not a good look.
    As the John Hindersucker, the pundit who is perhaps The Greatest Pundit What Ever Pundited wrote, long ago:
    “It must be very strange to be President Trump. A man of extraordinary vision and brilliance approaching to genius, he can’t get anyone to notice. He is like a great painter or musician who is ahead of his time, and who unveils one masterpiece after another to a reception that, when not bored, is hostile.”Hindersucker speaks not only for the MAJORITY of Real ‘Muricans, but also for the Smartestest Publisher What Ever Published a “News” Paper, Pinche/Putz Sulzberger.
    Don’t you feel ashamed of yourself now?​
     
    ETA: As a result of writing the above, my body is trying to “Grunthos” me.

  107. 107.

    SFAW

    @gene108: ​
     

    His response on cutting government waste was about he personally negotiated with Boeing to knock $1.7 billion off the price of a new Air Force One.

    I’m guessing that tactic would not have worked, had he not the entire government at his beck and call, and Boeing was trying to suck up to him.
    And, considered his history, he’d probably stiff Boeing on paying for it after delivery.

  108. 108.

    Ken

    @SFAW: Was that a real quote? And was the writer being sarcastic?

    EDIT: I meant the part about “A man of extraordinary vision and brilliance approaching to genius, he can’t get anyone to notice.”

  109. 109.

    SFAW

    @gene108: ​
     
    Probably mentioned elsewhere, but apparently he thinks his math skills and understanding of economics are The Greatest Evah.
    If we had started earlier, calling him “Former President Dunning-Kruger” might have gained some traction.
    I’ve known persons who were fucking stupid, but at least they — well, most of them, anyway — did NOT think they were geniuses.

  110. 110.

    SFAW

    @Ken: ​ John Hinderaker actually wrote that, but it was about George W. Bush.While Assrocket (as he is/was unaffectionately known) might feel differently about SFB, I have no information either way on that subject. But given that Assrocket is a RWMF …​

  111. 111.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Chet Murthy: Yes, but now that we’ve lived YEARS with a postmaster general who views his job as dismantling the US Postal Service, I’m not sure which is the better choice for voting. I’ve had way, way too many items go missing or arrived past deadlines that I sure as shit won’t be voting by mail for some time to come, even though it’s an option for me.

  112. 112.

    SFAW

    I don’t know if that picture of President Carter is recent, but if so, he looks pretty damn good for 100.

    I’m glad he was able to vote for Harris, and I, too, hope he sees her inauguration.

  113. 113.

    Kay

    I personally think we’re doing fine so don’t understand the freak out, but it might be just the influence of  Twitter, which is a Right wing site that is manipulated by the far Right owner.

    There’s a lot to be said for avoiding online election info in the last month, I must say. I’m finding it did not add much to my understanding.

  114. 114.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @SFAW: I’m glad he was able to vote for Harris, and I, too, hope he sees her inauguration.

    I hope we see her inauguration.

  115. 115.

    Aussie Sheila

    @SFAW:

    He’s stupid, but not in an ordinary way. He’s also sociopathic and now I think, criminally insane. It’s unbelievable that such a creature could be a toss of the dice away from commanding the biggest atomic arsenal in the world.
    It’s ineffable and unforgivable.

  116. 116.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Seanly:

    I do worry that she hasn’t danced with who brung ya enough. I appreciate reaching out to Republicans who might be done with Trump but seems like she hasn’t 100% shored up a lot of the portions of the Democratic base.

    Those DeKalb County voters in GA? Those are who brung her to the dance.

  117. 117.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @SFAW: Your intestines had better hurry up, because gnawing my own leg off is looking more like a viable option by the second. Nobody said the European Arts Nobbling Council was a high-risk job…

    :)

  118. 118.

    RevRick

    @Aussie Sheila: Strong parties mean… strong democratic, collective….

    *sigh*

    You do understand how difficult that is in the US with its individualistic ideology. Getting people to come out, let alone organize is an uphill battle. And the way our government is structured works against building a unified program. Six bazillion Democrats in NY and California can be all gung ho for progressive policies, but we basically watch helplessly on the sidelines as it all hinges on the whims of less than a hundred thousand votes in Montana.

    The democratic reforms implemented in 1972 have fatally weakened the Democratic Party, because it can no longer function as a mediating body. It’s now mainly a conduit for dollars to candidates.

  119. 119.

    SFAW

    @The Audacity of Krope: ​

    I hope we see her inauguration.

    I considered fixing it, but I figured it was also understood. [OK, actually, I was putting in a laundry, and the edit window closed before I got back.]

  120. 120.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    The lines are often long on the first day of early voting. By tomorrow, they’ll be short.

    Bob Woodward says good things about Biden’s governance in the epilogue to his new book (via Slate):

    For the most part, Woodward is impressed, concluding that they engaged in “genuine good faith efforts” to “wield the levers of executive power responsibly and in the national interest,” adding, “I believe President Biden and this team will be largely studied in history as an example of steady and purposeful leadership.”

  121. 121.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @SFAW: As happy as I will be for President Carter if he gets to witness the American restoration timeline; even though we aren’t saints like he is, the rest of us don’t deserve to split onto the global decline timeline.

  122. 122.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Jay: Hope President Harris fucks with him seasonally, just for fun. All kinds of personal, but public, slights can be engineered. And that her press team rubs the rank-n-file’s nose in it until they pull their heads out of their asses and vote the stupid idjit out and install a proper union member into the position. Hell, many of their regionals have already flipped off O’Brien and endorsed Harris.

  123. 123.

    Soprano2

    @Baud: I agree, the Democratic ticket is two relatively unknown people who are friendly and personable. The press and R’s have tried to attack them without much success. The Republican ticket is a demented man and an unknown man who is a prickly asshole who the more people know him the more they dislike them

    Evidently NPR has been taken in by all the Republican ratfucking polls that have just been released, because they’re promoting a story that with the release of the latest polls TCFG is slightly ahead in all the battleground states. *sigh

  124. 124.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud: ​
     

    Media attack themes usually take a while to develop and solidify.

    And of course, they’d been attacking Hillary for a quarter-century by the time she ran for President in 2016. My WAG is that the residual doubts in people’s minds from that quarter-century made her support more prone to collapse when Comey pulled his shit in the last two weeks of that campaign.

  126. 126.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Soprano2: ​
     

    @Dangerman: We’re the same age. My goal is to see Halley’s Comet again.

    I’d be 107 in 2061, so even though I come from long-lived stock, I think the odds are against me there.

    Especially being male. Ever looked at a list of ‘supercentenarians’ – people who are at least 110 years old? They’re almost all women. If there’s sixty names on the list, maybe one or two of them are men, the rest are women.

    I’m sure JD Vance would say something about their purpose being to help raise their great-great-grandchildren.

  128. 128.

    lowtechcyclist

    @RevRick: Marist is a good pollster.  Even though I’ve been pretty much on an even keel through all of the ups and downs of this year, it’s always nice to get some good news.

  129. 129.

    satby

    Threadreader on an unanticipated outcome of voter suppression laws in Montana:
    you guys love Voter ID laws. What’s the problem?”
    His answer floored me.
    “The people without the ID in Montana aren’t minority and young voters, you can’t do anything in Montana without a driver’s license, so everyone has one, except for the anti-government nuts who don’t want the government to know where they are. They live up in the hills, the house and vehicles are in their wife’s names, and they don’t have any ID. We let them vote with a mail to their address and register the day of, before. Now the legislature iced out 50-60k of our voters.”

  130. 130.

    Geminid

    @RevRick: There is another structural matter: in the US, voters choose the Democratic candidates in state-run primaries. Party conventions can endorse a particular candidate but their role is advisory and not decisive. On balance, I think our system is better than the parliamentary model where the party apparatus chooses candidates.

  131. 131.

    Soprano2

    @gene108:  Trump has the mindset of an asshole small businessman who nickel and dimes suppliers and treats employees poorly.

    That’s because that’s what he is! The TCFG “empire” is essentially a small, family-run real estate company. I believe he knows about real estate, but he doesn’t know about any other business.

  132. 132.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Well, today “Morning Edition” is running a story saying that with the release of the latest polls TCFG is slightly ahead in all the battleground states. Sounds like they got taken in by those junk Republican polls that were just released. That’s part of what the freak out is about.

  133. 133.

    Soprano2

    @lowtechcyclist:  Then we’re not the same age, because I’ll be 100 if I live that long. Halley’s was such a disappointment to me the last time, after reading about how spectacular it was I felt so let down.

  134. 134.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Soprano2: Well, today “Morning Edition” is running a story saying that with the release of the latest polls TCFG is slightly ahead in all the battleground states. Sounds like they got taken in by those junk Republican polls that were just released. That’s part of what the freak out is about.

    If there is anything 2016 taught me, it’s that the best place for our voters is in a nailbiter.

    @Geminid: On balance, I think our system is better than the parliamentary model where the party apparatus chooses candidates.

    The issue comes where our party apparatus tends to express a preference regardless and, when they get their preference in an otherwise open primary, the party thumb on the scale tends to breed some resentment.

  135. 135.

    Another Scott

    @Ken: @Soprano2:

    Something I discovered / realized recently:

    Firdfox has a “reader” mode that strips out all the blocking junk and just shows the text.  It works on WaPo and FTFNYT links I’ve tried.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/10/15/heres-how-donald-trump-will-lower-grocery-prices/

    Click on the “piece of paper” icon “Toggle Reader View (F9)” on the right in the URL bar and refresh.  You should see the full page of WaPo text without issues.

    HTH!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  137. 137.

    TBone

    @TBone: our PA ballots were mailed out on October 7.  From Ohio, the location of the vendor they used (not inspiring much confidence 😕).  “Can confirm that your ballots arrived here in our town post office, but we don’t know where they are now.  Give it a few more days.” If we don’t get them by Friday, the very nice County gentleman in charge will cancel them and we can pick up new ballots in person at his office.  He was not at all as perplexed as I am.  I’m being polite when I use the word “perplexed.”

  138. 138.

    Geminid

    @The Audacity of Krope: I was thinking of the way Minnesota’s DFL endorses candidates before the primaries. That at least has a democratic element because it’s done by conventions as opposed to party committees.

    On the other hand, when party entitities like the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee throw their weight behind a particular primary candidate there can be a lot of resentment. I remember how Iowa jackals complained when the Senate campaign committee tapped one of two good candidates as its favorite to run against Grassley in 2022. I would not have liked that either

  139. 139.

    Jackie

    Kamala Harris’ campaign will air an abortion rights ad featuring Hadley Duvall, who was raped by her stepfather when she was 12, during Donald Trump’s ‘women’s issues’ town hall on Fox News Wednesday morning,” Politico reports.

    TCFG’s town hall is today on Faux’s The Faulkner Focus, 11:00 Blog Time. I can’t wait to see how quickly he starts insulting and threatening the all-women audience.

  140. 140.

    prostratedragon

    IL Rep. Sean Casten:

    A quick thread on Trump’s Project 2025 thing that’s been on my mind. It’s not just Trump’s agenda. It’s the agenda of the entire @GOP.

    […]

    7. P2025 would like to limit / eliminate the Federal Reserve’s ability to act as a lender of last resort (e.g., when the economy is crashing, they don’t want the Fed to be able to provide stability.) Insanely stupid idea.

    8. Sure enough, the @HouseGOP had a whole hearing on this exact topic, bringing in so-called “experts” to help make the case. congress.gov/event/118th-con…

  141. 141.

    TBone

    @TBone: seen but not yet verified by me:

    The Ohio Supreme Court ruled anyone dropping off a ballot for a disabled person must come inside the BOE and sign some documents. New rule made up in August by SOS Frank La Rose. Inheritor of a beer distribution business.

  142. 142.

    TBone

    @Jackie: I am tuning in, thanks for the heads up.

    I am certain this is gonna be 😳

    When Faux cuts away and cuts him off as is their wont, Aaron Rupar will pick up the slack.

  143. 143.

    Geminid

    @Jackie: This town hall was taped yesterday in Forsyth County, Georgia. That’s 40-50 miles northeast of Atlanta. Harris Faulkner moderated.

  144. 144.

    TBone

    @Geminid: oh.  No need to see the edited Faux version then, thank you!

    Cloud of Noxious Chemicals near Atlanta (recent chemical fire) by Charlie Pierce:

    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a62600626/biolab-fire-chemicals-leak-georgia/

    (And as a strange sidebar to the situation, Kenny Johnson, the Rockdale County Soil and Water Conservation District supervisor, collapsed and died in the Georgia state capitol immediately after testifying to a legislative committee hearing into the fire.)

  146. 146.

    wjca

    @gene108: His response on cutting government waste was about he personally negotiated with Boeing to knock $1.7 billion off the price of a new Air Force One.

    Boeing probably knew him well enough to vastly inflate the price.  So if he did “negotiate” personally they could give him a fake win. And still make extra, since he would have no clue what a new plane actually costs.

  147. 147.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Geminid:  I was thinking of the way Minnesota’s DFL endorses candidates before the primaries. That at least has a democratic element because it’s done by conventions as opposed to party committees.

    I’m not familiar with their actual process, but I do like the notion of third parties partnering with the major parties and endorsing candidates. This can be a powerful means of coalition building as long as we predominantly have our plurality winner system.  Also, having such groups carve out little ideological niches may help people feel less isolated in their views and create avenues for serious thinkers with novel ideas a community to support the refinement of those ideas and the conceptualization of deliverables .

  149. 149.

    Geminid

    @The Audacity of Krope: You can observe a comparable system in New York, where the Working Families Party is trying to build power by running their own ballot line. Under New York’s “fusion” rules a candidate’s votes on both the Democratic and WFP lines counts towards their total.

    This can sometimes be problematic. In the NY 17th CD, the WFP line was won by a stealthy Republican who took advantage of low turnout in the WFP primary. That could have been related to Mondaire Jones endorsing George Latimer in the neighboring 16th District primary.

    Jones used to be a WFP favorite but the Latimer/Bowman race was very polarizing among “progressives.” So now instead of running on both the Democratic and WFP lines, Jones faces Rep. Mike Lawler on the Republican line and the ringer on the WFP line.

  150. 150.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Geminid: It would make more sense to me if a candidate could run under multiple parties on one line as opposed to same candidate, different party, two lines. There would be issues as far as how to handle a party that qualifies for a ballot by default but then their candidate didn’t get a major party imprimatur and other similar considerations, but in the end I feel like one line would provide ease and clarity for voters.

  151. 151.

    Geminid

    @The Audacity of Krope: I think all the varioius systems– jungle primary, Ranked-choice, NY-style fusion– are worth studyng if someone is interested in innovation. The key is how they work out in practice, over multiple cycles.

    Next year’s New York Mayoral race will showcase both Ranked-choice voting and the Working Families Party role.

    I am more of a traditionalist who believes we are getting what we need with the current setup. I am intrigued, though by Alaska’s hybrid system where the top four jungle primary finishers advance to an RCV runoff in November. But the rest of these newfangled contraptions can stay the hell off my lawn!

  152. 152.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Geminid: Alaska’s hybrid system where the top four jungle primary finishers advance to an RCV runoff in November. But the rest of these newfangled contraptions can stay the hell off my lawn!

    I agree. That is the best implementation I’ve ever seen of RCV and the only example of a jungle primary I’m especially fond of.

  153. 153.

    ErikaF

    Chrome has a reading mode (under More Tools) that seems to work well. It opens in a sidebar that can be resized. However, it can take some time to be populated if ads are constantly running.

  156. 156.

    wjca

    @satby:

    That thread also says

     It would be hysterical if Sheehy lost because of new voter laws. 

    I think it would be even more hysterical if Trump lost Montana due to their new voter ID laws.  Hmmm, wonder if Idaho has a similar law….

  157. 157.

    Gvg

    @Ken: I think universal pre clearance will be a good idea in the long run though. Some states that didn’t used to be racist by reputation have become so IMO over the decades since the VRA was passed. I think that has been caused by shifts in prosperity downward and demographic changes which were not predicted, and I think it could keep happening. I also think that the future could hold new challenges that fit the definition but aren’t quite the same. So having the law apply to everyone seems like a good idea to me.

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