Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

I am pretty sure Katy Tur wasn’t always such a bootlicking sycophant.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

If you are in line to indict donald trump, stay in line.

“Joe Biden deserved better than he got from some folks in his own party.”

Elections aren’t won by handwringing, cowering, and/or bashing your own candidates.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Bark louder, little dog.

“Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on.”

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” is supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

The frogs are rarely mistaken.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Israel is using food as a weapon of war. Unforgivable.

American History and Black History can not be separated.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Nevertheless, She (We) Persisted

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Nevertheless, She (We) Persisted

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Former first lady Michelle Obama will headline a rally in Atlanta a week before the Nov. 5 election alongside celebrities and civic leaders focusing on engaging younger and first-time voters, as well as voters of color.

The Oct. 29 event will be hosted by When We All Vote, a nonpartisan civic engagement group that Obama founded in 2018 to “change the culture around voting” and reach out to people who are less likely to engage in politics and elections…

It is unclear which celebrities will attend the rally but organizers noted that the group’s co-chairs include professional basketball players Stephen Curry and Chris Paul; musical artists Becky G, H.E.R., Selena Gomez, Jennifer Lopez and Janelle Monáe; beauty influencer Bretman Rock; and actors Tom Hanks, Lin-Manuel Miranda and Kerry Washington.

The group has hosted more than 500 “Party at the Polls” events across the country focused on increasing voter registration and turnout. The events have ranged from pop-up block parties in Las Vegas, Phoenix and Philadelphia to voter registration partnerships with professional sports leagues and music festivals over the past year…

Lynk said the group chose Atlanta because of the state’s diversity and the impact that only a handful of voters can make in Georgia. About one-third of Georgia’s electorate is Black alongside rapidly growing Asian American and Latino communities. When We All Vote is focused on engaging college students on campuses in the metropolitan Atlanta area, Lynk said.

“Something that we have been hearing from young voters is that a lot of people don’t believe that their votes have power. But they do, plain and simple,” Lynk said. “We know that democracy has to work for all of us and that’s what we will be stressing at this rally.”

The rally will take place just before early voting ends in Georgia on Nov. 1, less than a week before Election Day.

To reiterate:

A student loan cancellation program for public workers has granted relief to more than 1 million Americans — up from just 7,000 who were approved before it was updated by the Biden administration two years ago.

President Joe Biden announced the milestone on Thursday, saying his administration restored a promise to America’s teachers, firefighters, nurses and other public servants. He celebrated it even as his broader student loan plans remain halted by courts following legal challenges by Republican-led states.

“For too long, the government failed to live up to its commitments,” Biden said in a statement. “We vowed to fix that, and because of actions from our administration, now over 1 million public service workers have gotten the relief they are entitled to under the law.”…

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Nevertheless, She (We) Persisted

(Lalo Alcaraz via GoComics.com)

Reader Interactions

166Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    Baier: “Are they misguided, the 50%” that are supporting Trump? “Are they stupid? What is it?”

     

    Harris: “Oh god, I would never say that about the American people.” Trump “is the one who tends to demean and belittle.”

    Even Hillary only said half of them were deplorable. Baier was reaching for the stars.

  4. 4.

    Kosh III

    She’s wrong. They are stupid, misguided, delusional, deluded, ignorant, hate-filled, bigoted-you know…morons.

  5. 5.

    satby

    @Kosh III: and she’s running to be president for them too.

    Edit: I know it’s just gassing on a blog and people think it doesn’t matter what gets said, but it does  And calling people names, no matter how much they deserve it in your mind, is counterproductive. But the aspiring. President needs to represent all of the citizens, even the dumb ones . And we should respect and support that.

  7. 7.

    Scout211

    Thanks, AL.  I love waking up to positive news.

    I saw a headline on one of the news sites (maybe CNN?) a few days ago  saying something like, “Michelle Obama’s speech at the DNC urged people to ‘do something’ but she has yet to do any campaigning for Harris.” Then the announcement of her speech in Atlanta came right after that.  So there, media! She is definitely doing something!

    And where are the campaign speeches with former Republican First Ladies? Laura Bush? Melania Trump? Ivanka Trump?   Why no headlines? Hmm?

  9. 9.

    Kosh III

    @satby: Yes. She will work for them as much as everyone else and they’ll despise her just like they did President Illegal Alien Muslim Colored Boy who stole their WHITE House.

  10. 10.

    Betty Cracker

    I almost never watch “Morning Joe” but tuned in this morning to get a sense of how the MSM is processing Harris’s Fox News interview. Scarborough is MIA, and the show is better for it.

  11. 11.

    Jeffro

    Harris CRUSHED that Fox “interview”, full stop.

    trumpov completely FLAILED in the Univision town hall…referring to the J6ers as “we”, pretending that most of his former Cabinet supports his campaign, and having no answer for who’s going to do the hard work if/when he’s elected and starts deporting millions of agricultural workers.

    We’re gonna run through the tape for sure, but I am feeling a bit better every single day.  =)

  13. 13.

    dmsilev

    @Baud:

    Baier: “Are they misguided, the 50%” that are supporting Trump? “Are they stupid? What is it?”

    “No, some of them are willingly and knowingly embracing the fascism.”

  16. 16.

    Betty Cracker

    NYT:

    The Israeli authorities just announced they are examining the possibility that Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas, has been killed. In a joint statement, Israel’s military and domestic intelligence service said that they cannot yet confirm Sinwar’s death.

    They’re examining a body to see if the DNA matches Sinwar. Huge news if Sinwar is dead.

  18. 18.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @satby: she’s running to be president to everyone.

    Edit: I know it’s just gassing on a blog and people think it doesn’t matter what gets said, but it does And calling people names, no matter how much they deserve it in your mind, is counterproductive. But the aspiring. President needs to represent all of the citizens, even the dumb ones . And we should respect and support that.

    Thank you. I agree.

    It’s admirable that she role models how to step away from bitter name calling and angry vitriol ( no matter how justified), and snark. It’s very moral of her, and inclusive. She’s holding up hope for us all to be better. I would like to be big enough to deserve such a person as my president.

    amen

  21. 21.

    hrprogressive

    I’ve long been of the opinion most Dems shouldn’t waste their breath on Fox News, but by all accounts, MVP went there and took their proverbial lunch money.

    Going into enemy territory is only useful if you’re going to be hostile right back to them. Genuflecting in the name of bipartisanship does diddly.

    Sounds like she understood the assignment.

    Seems likely she’ll understand a lot of assignments from behind the Resolute Desk.

  22. 22.

    Baud

    @satby:

    Over the last 8 years, a bunch of people have convinced themselves that “going high” is our big problem, which let’s them avoid dealing with the fact that people like us are a minority and need help to win.

  23. 23.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @TBone: the local sheriff. Keep track. This could lead to further troubles…

    guess, while I’m praying for the folks in hurricane disaster areas, I’ll add prayers for everyone voting, and everyone displaying an obvious sign of being pro democrats.

    Mm. Glad they’re looking to set up extra protection of sorts

  25. 25.

    Mousebumples

    @Baud: speaking of “going high”… Has anyone heard anything about rescheduling marijuana? I know the Biden admin has it in progress, and that feels like a great October surprise…

  26. 26.

    Weapon X

    @Jeffro: is it just me or did Trump’s makeup in the Univision town hall make him look like he asked to look like when Eli Wallace would play Mexican in old westerns?

  27. 27.

    TBone

    More good news flying under the radar:

    The United States designates a massive new marine sanctuary
    A new 11,766-km2 area off the Central California coast was officially designated the Chumash Heritage National Marine Sanctuary by NOAA last week. The third-largest in the nation, the sanctuary will prohibit new gas and oil exploration and is the first ever designed with the involvement of Indigenous groups.

    Courtesy of today’s Fix the News letter.

  28. 28.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Baud: Over the last 8 years, a bunch of people have convinced themselves that “going high” is our big problem, which let’s them avoid dealing with the fact that people like us are a minority and need help to win.

    I’m stupid this morning. We need what kind of help? Who is “going high,” in what way? Is it a problem? What solution are you hinting at? Who is avoiding what fact? Maybe this one is just going to go over my head, and that’s ok.

  30. 30.

    TBone

    PLEASE DISPOSE OF MY MISTAKE UGH

    @Gloria DryGarden: Also from that article:

    ort C&L — Go Ad-Free Today

     

    Ad Free LoginCLTV

    Like us on FacebookFollow us on TwitterSubscribe on FlipboardFollow us on Mastodon

    Latest

    Maddow: Trump Tries To Pay Off Stormy Daniels – Again
    Cornell Expert Describes Trump’s ‘Accelerating Cognitive Decline’
    The Surprising TRUTH About Polls Nobody Tells You

    DoJ To Monitor Votes In County Where Sheriff Called Harris A ‘Hyena’

    Portage County Sheriff Bruce D. Zuchowski also suggested residents keep a list of houses that displayed Harris signs.

    By Susie Madrak — October 16, 2024

    The Justice Department announced yesterday it wills conservative, having gone for former President Donald Trump in both the 2016 and 2020 cycles in addition to now-Sen. JD Vance in 2022. “Voters in Portage County have raised concerns about intimidation resulting from the surveillance and the collection of personal information regarding voters, as well as threats concerning the electoral process,” the department said in a statement.

     

    It did not provide further information on the specific concerns but noted the department “regularly deploys its staff to monitor for compliance with federal civil rights laws in elections in communities all across the country.”

  35. 35.

    Belafon

    Although, according to ABC, Harris is struggling to define how she would govern differently than Biden and that the interview was contentious.

  39. 39.

    K-Mo

    Wow- I’m very happy with her performance in that interview.  Not as much as the debate, but she totally did what she has to do.

    She is good at this.

  41. 41.

    Belafon

    @Mousebumples: I would be surprised if it happens. I know a lot of Democrats, people who don’t comment on blogs, that would have a negative reaction to any sort of changes on marijuana.

  42. 42.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @TBone: gonna cry. These marine sanctuaries are a big deal. Someone cares about the life on our planet. Plus including indigenous people. Sigh of relief, cushiony pillows of kindness in our world…

  43. 43.

    NotMax

    @Weapon X

    More like John Wayne as Genghis Khan in The Conqueror. On a day Wayne was more than usually hungover and the regular make-up person was out with the flu.
    //.

  45. 45.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Baud: pls say more about these generalized not like us D voters, I might not be aware. It’s good for me to learn.

    do folks not know we really have to Gotv, to beat this darn EC?

  46. 46.

    Starfish

    @Belafon: Right now, a lot of marijuana products are sold in states that have decriminalized or legalized medical marijuana are like “snake oil.” They make all sorts of product claims.

    Rescheduling marijuana so it doesn’t need to be in the most locked down of research labs (like the ones doing stuff with cocaine) means that more researchers can determine if the claims being made are valid and what type of regulation should occur.

  47. 47.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Baud: oh, you’re saying we can go high w our behavior, but also be fierce in getting people to very much give a damn and get themselves to the polling place?

    Like that?

    people don’t get it? That it matters a ton…

  50. 50.

    Scout211

    The Daily Beast  with Bret Baier’s impressions. (web archive version).

    TL;DR:  “Kamala Harris made me be an interrupting asshole!”

    Fox News host Bret Baier recapped his Wednesday night interview with Vice President Kamala Harris, telling his colleagues that he got a sense early on that Harris “was going to be tough to redirect without me trying to interrupt.”

    The Fox host, who would go on to interrupt Harris’s responses several times, said their first exchange—on immigration—showed that she would be “tough.”

    . . .
    Later, in an interview with conservative personality Mark Levin, Baier expanded, saying, “There was a slight bit of frustration” and that, “I had so much stuff to get to.

    “I was hoping it was going to be this civil back-and-forth, but it was good for her to come on and I think she should do more of them, but I was just trying to get through the talking points and it took a while, and it was a little bit of, you know, interrupting, and kind of, getting in on the breath.”

    “They wanted a viral moment,” Baier suggested, repeating how his initial time was allegedly trimmed by the Harris campaign and that Harris was late.

  51. 51.

    Another Scott

    @Gloria DryGarden: My interpretation (on not enough caffeine):

    “Going high” is referring to Michelle Obama’s speech from years ago, “when they go low, we go high”.  It has its place, but cannot be a universal response (or it’s disarming ourselves).

    “Not like us” – only something like 20% of voters call themselves “liberal”.  Those of us pushing for rapid change and rapid progress are a minority and always have been.  We always have to be willing to get more people on board, people who don’t think the same way we do, if we want progress.  And that means progress will be slower and will be more stupid in some cases than optimal.  But that’s how lasting change has always happened – as infuriatingly slow as it often is.

    And that means satby’s admonition about not calling people stupid and all the rest is essential.  Punch back at their leaders, but not at the people.  We need the people, even as we’re stuffing their leaders back under their rocks.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  52. 52.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Betty Cracker: Fingers crossed that it’s true.  It will also be hilarious (and by that I mean disgusting/sad) watching FreeGaza protest groups put out some horribly offensive statement claiming Sinwar was just another innocent victim of Global Zionism™ or whatever the fuck.  I guarantee it’s coming, the only question is who will be dumb enough to say it.

  53. 53.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Baud: Over the last 8 years, a bunch of people have convinced themselves that “going high” is our big problem

    This shows a lack of nuance. Keeping to one’s morals doesn’t mean ceding every fight. Indeed, sometimes a moral stand demands a fight. We can then fight in a way that doesn’t destroy our soul.

  56. 56.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Belafon: Why would that matter?  The issue with Biden wasn’t his policies, it was (the complete bullshit smears about) his age/mental acuity.  Why would voters even want Harris to govern differently, according to the MSM logic?

  57. 57.

    Baud

    @The Audacity of Krope:

    No, the lack of nuance occurred when people took one line from Michelle Obama’s speech meant to highlight our moral superiority and used it to spread the right wing message that Dems are weak.

  58. 58.

    LAC

    @Kosh III:

    Yes. She will work for them as much as everyone else and they’ll despise her just like they did President Illegal Alien Muslim Colored Boy who stole their WHITE House.

    That is, unfortunately, the reality that some of us higher on the melanin count get. Not name calling , just stating facts. And I did enjoy the Blazing Saddles nod.

  59. 59.

    twbrandt

    @Scout211: I didn’t watch the entire interview (there’s not enough blood pressure medication in the world for that), but from the clips I’ve seen she did not give an inch to his attempts to throw her off.

  62. 62.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Another Scott: oh! Lots of dems, not liberal, but democrats nonetheless… Oh!  I don’t seem to know the percentage of registered voters who are democrats in the us.

    So, not progressive, not liberal, just centrist, status quo non republicans? I’m trying to wrap my head around this. Thanks for enlightening me. Jeepers. How do people not care?

    Interesting. Thx for your patience (“ostentatious”) and for explaining.

  65. 65.

    kindness

    @Belafon: You know ‘a lot’ of Democrats who wouldn’t vote for Kamala if Cannabis was re-scheduled?  With all due respect, out here in the People’s Republic of California there are a lot of Republicans who would like marijuana to be rescheduled to the same level as alcohol and tobacco.

    Maybe you should check with those Democrats and get back to us.

  67. 67.

    BritinChicago

    @Baud: I wish she’s said: They’re being lied to. And possibly pointed out that there are—incredibly—supposed news organizations that have actually been found liable for telling lies of that sort….

  69. 69.

    satby

    @Baud: I think people have also mistaken Michelle Obama’s statement on “going high when they go low” as a generic Rx of behavior rather than a realistic acknowledgement of the constraints she and President Obama had to work within as black Americans.

  74. 74.

    Gin & Tonic

    Zelensky is in Brussels, and according to reports this is his summary of his conversation with Trump

    “There are two choices. Or Ukraine will have nuclear weapons, or we should have some kind of alliance, and apart from NATO we do not know any functioning alliances today. We want to choose NATO, not nuclear weapons.”

  75. 75.

    Chris

    Off-topic: Richard Secord, Retired Air Force Major General Involved In Iran-Contra Affair, Dies

    How the hell have I never heard of this guy?  According to his Wikipedia page, the man was responsible for overseeing Air Opium in Laos, then got fired from the Air Force over his dealings with Edwin P. Wilson, then made two million dollars as an arms dealer in Iran-contra.  He’s like an anthropomorphic Greatest Hits of every intelligence scandal from the 1970s and 1980s.  I’m mildly shocked he didn’t manage to weasel his way into Watergate.

  76. 76.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Gin & Tonic: why is zelensky talking to fucking trump, who is not the president right now?

    and if he’s actually talking to trump, he better be talking to Harris, and especially, to Biden. Biden is pres for another 4 months

  77. 77.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Baud: I saw it most often applied to the age-old, Progressive smear that Dems never wanna fight, always bring a knife to a gunfight, are too willing to compromise etc.

  78. 78.

    K-Mo

    @Baud: It was not a timeless, unchanging approach, or it shouldn’t have been.  The circumstances since 2016 have called for a new paradigm.  Arguably, MickyO didn’t assess correctly the level of madness that Trump was bringing in.

  79. 79.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @NotMax: “The great strength of the totalitarian state is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it.”

    — Adolf Hitler

    Well, lucky we aren’t at the point of a full totalitarian state and the ballot box remains an option.

    I don’t necessarily agree but thought it germane

    It probably was originally. One of my closest friends is germane but his English is excellent.

  80. 80.

    sdhays

    @Baud: I’ve also come to understand that it was a boxing metaphor – when your opponent throws a low punch, you hit him with a high punch.

    I don’t care for boxing and don’t know much about it, so it went over my head at the time, and it seems I had lots of company.

  84. 84.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Gloria DryGarden: Covering his bets. He is absolutely also talking to Harris and to Biden.

    Look, this election is life or death for Ukraine. He has to account for all possibilities.

    There’s a thread on this blog every night in great detail about Ukraine, including Zelensky’s remarks *daily.* You should read it.

  86. 86.

    satby

    @sdhays: I think that’s a stretch. It might be a good metaphor, but I doubt that boxing was on Michelle Obama’s mind at the time. I could be wrong though. I think it’s a catchy line that was applied to much more than she intended is all.

  88. 88.

    Geminid

    A survey of campaign funding in 60 “battleground” Congressional districts found only two Republican were among the top twenty . According to Politico the top ten were all Democrats.

    Eugene Vindman, VA07 was 1st with $6.5 million; Rep. Mary Peltola (AK) was 2nd with $3.9 million; and Will Rollins (CA41) was 3rd with $3.7 million.

    Rep. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez (WA03) was 4th with $3.6 million; former state Rep. Amish Shah (AZ01) was 5th with $3.6 million; Oregon State Rep. Janelle Bynum was 6th with $$3.5 million raised for her OR05 race and Michigan State Rep. Kristen McDonald Rivet was 7th with $3.1 million raised for the MI08 race.

    Kirsten Engle (AZ06) was 8th with $3 million; former Rep. Mondaire Jones was 9th with $2.9 raised for the NY17 race and Janelle Stetson (PA10) was 10th with $2.9 million raised.

    Janelle Stetson, Mondaire Jones, Kirsten Engle, Janelle Bynum, Amish Shah and Will Rollins are challenging Republican incumbents.

    Eugene Vindman and Kristen McDonald Rivet are competing for open seats after the Democratic incumbents retired, while Blue Dogs Mary Peltola and Marie Gluesenkamp Perez are defending red districts.

  89. 89.

    Bupalos

    @Kosh III: Right. And either we’re going to improve the early childhood experience and the educational system and social and media environment that leaves them susceptible to this predatory fraud, or our democracy is going to sink and the oligarchs will rule.

    Your daily reminder that our current tactical political precariousness compared to say 2012 is that Republicans going post-truth right-populist is pulling increasing numbers of latino voters out of our coalition. Don’t underestimate the power of populism in an age as fundamentally destabilized as ours, and don’t surrender to it as something that can’t be understood or fixed.

  94. 94.

    mrmoshpotato

    Kamala Harris: Bret, I’m sorry, and with all due respect, that clip was not what he has been saying about the enemy within that he has repeated when he is speaking about the American people. That’s not what you just showed.

    Harris: Are all of you such lying, misleading sacks of shit?  Apologies to actual manure.

  95. 95.

    Bupalos

    @Gloria DryGarden: He’s talking to Trump because Trump may become president and have Ukrainian life and death in his hands. The guy isn’t going to gamble on the American public, he doesn’t have the luxuries we do. His stakes are existential.

  97. 97.

    Geminid

    @The Audacity of Krope: From the clips I saw of the Texas Senate debate between Ted Cruz and Colin Allred, Allred didn’t go low; he just pounded Ted Cruz’s ample midsection hard and repeatedly. Allred was very aggressive and Cruz looked like he wasn’t ready for it.

  99. 99.

    Harrison Wesley

    In local marijuana news, I got a flyer in the mail yesterday encouraging me – as a senior – to vote for Amendment 3 here in FL.  I assume everybody in my 55+ age development got it, as it claimed that more and more of us olde fartes were endulging and it was put out by some seniors’ organization that I’ve never heard of.

  100. 100.

    Quinerly

    @TBone:

    Like I said, I check lots of news sources. I don’t want to live in a bubble. I thought she was fantastic. Curious what “their” spin was.

    I also didn’t pie people or flounce off (and pout) this summer after Biden’s debate performance.

  102. 102.

    Kosh III

    @NotMax: “freely admit to having experienced more than a smattering of days when I feel like Zathras.”

    Which one? ZathraS or ZaThras or ZathRas or……

    One of my many favorite scenes is when Ivanova goes down to seek help and meets one of the brothers.

  103. 103.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @NotMax:

    “They’re your audience, Bret. How do you describe them?”

    I’d have taken that answer 2nd to Kamala’s.

    She didn’t even come close to taking the bait.

    And then, by pointing out the doctored video, she showed that he and all Fox News lie to the very same rubes he tried to bait her to demean. And thus demean them. Well done, MVP.

  104. 104.

    Peke Daddy

    @TBone: Harris is proposing full legalization on a federal level. Also, adults are using more cannabis than alcohol on a daily basis. This is an unalloyed good, given the very well known damaging qualities of alcohol. If a society can survive legalization and socialization of alcohol, it can survive cannabis.

  105. 105.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Scout211: tough titties, Brett baier.
    I hate people who ask questions then interrupt to answer for them, and try to spin it. His behavior was ugly, in that interview.

  106. 106.

    Kosh III

    @Geminid:
    Good. I care about Cruz being defeated almost as much as I want MarshaAirhead Blackburn defeated.  Unfortunately the hag will probably win.

  109. 109.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Bupalos: ​
    Ukrainians are keenly aware of what they gave up under the terms of the Budapest Memorandum. I have no special knowledge, but – while it is true that under USSR nuclear doctrine they did not have independent authority over the weapons on their territory – they most certainly have the scientific and technical expertise to pursue this path. And the abiding lesson of the last couple of decades of world affairs is that nuclear weapons are the only effective guarantor of national sovereignty.

  110. 110.

    TBone

    @Quinerly: I wasn’t disparaging you, I was disparaging that attempt, another in a long line of bullshit statements spouted out of the Bullhorn of Projection!

    I read the tankies’ bullshit all the time to see what they’re up to (what Pooty wants propagandized this time/day/week).

    I have never used the pie option, not once.  I don’t flounce well, either!

  113. 113.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud:

    Over the last 8 years, a bunch of people have convinced themselves that “going high” is our big problem, which let’s them avoid dealing with the fact that people like us are a minority and need help to win.

    Here’s the thing – and I’m sure Michelle Obama understands it perfectly well: “going high” when they go low doesn’t mean only saying nice things about them.  You can tell the truth strongly and firmly and unequivocally, without losing your composure, and with the truth you tell about them being the only form of insult you engage in, no need to name-call.  But if they fling shit, you don’t have to call it Shinola just because you’re “going high.”

    ETA: What Gloria DryGarden said right above this.

  115. 115.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Harrison Wesley:

    When Mitch McConnell thinks you’re a despicable human being…..

    He’s probably relieved that there’s a major political figure who’s worse than him.

  116. 116.

    Bupalos

    @Sure Lurkalot: I thought that was by far her best move. and impressively done. My take on the event is that the campaign genuinely underestimated how craven Baier was going to be. So Foxnews got some very troubling minutes in there just waving bloody shirts and (literally) running Trump’s most potent ads.

    One of the things we really need to do in coming years is stop being surprised. It’s going to be a work in progress for all of us.

  118. 118.

    Quinerly

    @TBone:

    Wasn’t saying you were disparaging. Just stating where I stand.

    There’s an attitude about not giving opposing/lying sites clicks. I click. I want to know what they are saying.

    If she was 15 mins late, I am sorry that she gave them that ammo.

    (And, yes, Trump is chronically late. The rules are different for our side. We have to play to win, though. No whining, no complaining)

  120. 120.

    Betty Cracker

    As an American, I find it excruciatingly embarrassing that a man like Zelensky is obligated to talk to the demented, Putin ass-kissing old orange toddler.

  122. 122.

    TBone

    @Peke Daddy: ❓

    I have not spoken for or against today.  Am therefore clueless about this reply.  Generally, I am all for legalization and against prohibition (always a miserable failure).

  124. 124.

    frosty

    @Gloria DryGarden: everyone displaying an obvious sign of being pro democrats.

    Yep, no yard signs for me. Okay, I did one for the Congressional candidate years ago because it was on a red background and nobody in my neighborhood would have any idea who it was.

  127. 127.

    catclub

    @Bupalos: So Foxnews got some very troubling minutes in there just waving bloody shirts and (literally) running Trump’s most potent ads.

     

    Noentheless it was a win for her.  Why?  Because the Fox viewers  thought she was dumber than Trump and could not deal with an unscripted interview.  On that, she did great.

    She is sharp, she answers questions, she does not ramble about the Justice department  decisions on jan 6 prosecutions when asked about google.

  128. 128.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Belafon:

    Although, according to ABC, Harris is struggling to define how she would govern differently than Biden and that the interview was contentious.

    The question is really pretty silly in the context of this election.  Whatever she might do differently from Biden, those differences are minuscule compared to what Trump would do differently.

    Anyone making their living as a reporter who isn’t fully aware of this blatantly obvious truth should lose their job immediately. And any question about how she might differ from Biden should be preceded and framed by this fundamental truth.

  129. 129.

    Sandia Blanca

    I just voted by mail in Austin, Texas! Took Rikyrah’s advice and handed my ballot to the postal clerk to be date-stamped. Now I can devote my energies to answering calls to the Texas Dems’ voter assistance hotline (844-898-6837). Can Texas become a swing state?

  134. 134.

    Yarrow

    @CaseyL:  I know, right?! It’s SO good. Kimmel put it out as an isolated video on Instagram so hopefully it will get some buzz. It’s amazing.

    @TBone: I don’t usually watch it either. Just randomly had it on and saw it when it first aired. I was surprised it hadn’t been linked here. I hope it goes viral.

  135. 135.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Betty Cracker: As an American, I find it excruciatingly embarrassing that a man like Zelensky is obligated to talk to the demented, Putin ass-kissing old orange toddler.

    Yes and as others point out he has no choice.

    I feel sympathy for the senators and members of Congress who have to work day after day alongside the likes of Mitch McConnell, MTG, Ted Cruz, Matt Gaetz. Talk about a hostile work environment.

  136. 136.

    Lapassionara

    @lowtechcyclist: Here’s what I wish she would say: President Biden and I agree that we want to promote economic policies that focus on strengthening the middle class. No more false “trickle down” economics that a second Trump administration promises. No more tax cuts for the very rich.

    I may approach those policies differently than President Biden did, but his administration has laid a strong foundation for economic improvements in the face of difficult headwinds caused by the pandemic and by supply-chain disruptions, My job will be to make sure those broad economic improvements (which make our economy the envy of the developed world) continute to benefit hard-working Americans.

  137. 137.

    Bupalos

    @Betty Cracker: the recent Zelenskyy-Trump press appearance is one of the most embarrassing media moments for the United States I’ve ever seen. I say “one of” but I really have nothing comparable in mind.

    It obviously had an effect on Zelenskyy and a domestic effect within Ukraine. I see that as why apparently Zelenskyy is trying to raise the specter of nuclear weapons in a new way in this conflict.

  138. 138.

    tam1MI

    I filled out my mail in  ballot and returned it the day after I got it. One more vote banked for the Blue!

  139. 139.

    SatanicPanic

    Been thinking a lot about Trump’s weird ass town hall. My wife saw the story and immediately said “oh he’s seen those clips of Kamala Harris having fun dancing and he’s trying to copy her”. This was subsequently echoed by Digby. My wife is pretty perceptive and I think she nailed it. Trump, in his mush brain, somehow thinks that waving his arms around to 80s rich people music would make him look fun.

    Kristi Noem being forced to pretend she was enjoying dancing to YMCA was fun to watch. You could tell she hated it.

  140. 140.

    CaseyL

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: 

    The hostile work environment is deliberate on the part of the GOP, and goes back to Gingrich’s stint as Speaker. They count on wearing down the Democrats by being virulent pieces of shit to them, all day every day, and counting on the Democrats not being virulent pieces of shit right back at them.

    Can’t say it hasn’t worked for them, especially in the Senate, where (f’rex) Dick Durbin still honors those goddamn blue slips that keep judges (and, I think, appointed officials for various agencies) from being nominated or voted on.

  144. 144.

    KatKapCC

    That AP headline really needed some work. It sounds like a BAD thing, that the Biden admin just randomly cancelled “loans” — mortgages? small business? — for a bunch of people. Why not put the word “student” in there?

  145. 145.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Belafon:

    I know a lot of Democrats, people who don’t comment on blogs, that would have a negative reaction to any sort of changes on marijuana.

    Without addressing the caveats about marijuana usage, categorizing it as more dangerous than fentanyl or as dangerous as meth is ridiculous, whatever one’s political persuasion.

  146. 146.

    Bupalos

    @Lapassionara: It’s a tough needle she has to thread, being the change candidate while perceived as an incumbent. But I think the campaign has done a poor job coming up with this messaging. I’ll give Fox this credit: like a trained attack dog, they know exactly where to bite.

    I think the way to thread this needle would be around the concepts of “speed” and “urgency,” things that play to her relative youth and energy.

  148. 148.

    Geminid

    @CaseyL: I think “blue slips” do not apply to agency or Cabinet nominations, just to judicial and (maybe) US Attorney nominations within a given Senator’s state.

  151. 151.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Citizen Alan: Going high can also mean going for the throat instead of the balls.

    It is so kind of you to not make your enemies suffer in that way.

  152. 152.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @lowtechcyclist: Whatever she might do differently from Biden, those differences are minuscule compared to what Trump would do differently.

    sums up nearly everything about this election. Sigh

  154. 154.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Another Scott: when I replied patience (“ ostentatious”) that meant  my auto predict changed my word to ostentatious, and I had to retype ‘patience’.

    sorry I didn’t make that clear. I used that way, w parentheses and quotes, on another thread earlier in the night/ super early morning. I’ve been fighting with my autocorrect every post.
    Trusting you didn’t take it personally, but just in case.

  157. 157.

    Soprano2

    @Harrison Wesley: Maybe, but it’s also used more and more for the ailments of old age. I use it for my husband’s appetite. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t, but the doctors don’t have anything that helps at all.

  159. 159.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Soprano2: I went through a time of no appetite, once, and I went through my herbology books, and created a list of foods, and medicinal and culinary herbs that stimulated the appetite, made me willing to eat. I only remember a few things from it now. Hops, currants, chamomile, thyme. So I drank sleepy time tea. And I was able to eat. I wish something would work for your husband. It’s a hard thing.

  160. 160.

    Harrison Wesley

    @Soprano2: I have nothing against it, even though it’s probably been 40 years since I had a taste.  I just found it amusing that us Olds are being targeted.

  161. 161.

    wjca

    @Gloria DryGarden: So, not progressive, not liberal, just centrist, status quo non republicans? I’m trying to wrap my head around this. Thanks for enlightening me. Jeepers. How do people not care?

    Late to the thread, I know.  Sorry.

    It’s not that they don’t care.  It’s mostly that they’re cautious.  Possibly from first-hand experience with unintended consequences.  And a perception (accurate or not) that liberals/progressives get so carried away with their plans for change that they ignore even the possibility of unintended consequences.

    Which, to the extent it is true, suggests that the way to win them over for a particular change that you want is to show them evidence that you actually sat down and took a serious, realistuc look at “what could go wrong?”  Might be worth a try, next time there’s a policy change that liberals are enthused about.  Not least because it might identify some of those unintended consequences.

  163. 163.

    Another Scott

    @Gin & Tonic: Yup.

    One advantage of having a 1000+ year old civilization and national identity is being able to take a long-view of events.

    Ukraine (and Kazakhstan and Belarus) gave up a lot (even if they couldn’t (easily) launch the nuclear weapons on their soil).  Ukraine understands that Russia didn’t actually get voted on by the UN to replace the USSR on the Security Council.  Ukraine understands what it means to not defeat Russia when it goes on its far too frequent gobbling up its neighbors attacks.

    The US and the UK (and Russia) have special obligations in protecting Ukraine.  If they can’t or won’t do the job, then Urkraine (and eventually Kazakhstan and even Belarus) will want nuclear weapons again and too many countries have nuclear weapons as it is…

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  164. 164.

    Ruckus

    Had this woman had lived a hundred years ago she would have likely been in the same situation.

    But she didn’t live a hundred years ago.

    She lived now and we, as the human race, have a medical procedure that would have saved her life. Some states have inhumane, asinine laws, the one she lived in does and it killed her. Amber died because of an asinine law that shouldn’t exist.

  165. 165.

    Ruckus

    @Gloria DryGarden:

    I would like to be big enough to deserve such a person as my president.

    You are. That is one of the concepts of the democratic party, not that there are people above us in society, we are equal in this society. It is one of the founding concepts of this country, formed at a time when a king or queen could have someone killed if they didn’t like them. That was one of the big points OF this country. That we are all equal until we do something strongly against the people of this country. Now it is humanity so some are going to see themselves as better, it is after all – that humanity bit.

    If we are reasonable members/citizens of this country we recognize ALL the rest of the members as equals, because it makes us actually equal. Sure we have people that can run much farther and much faster than most of us, sure we have people with more money, sure we have people that own houses 4 or 5 times bigger than they need, sure we have people that think their shit doesn’t stink, sure…..

    We can always believe that some are less than us. But we don’t have to, we can learn better. And we can let the concept of this country show and do that for us. But it takes a betterment of a not insignificant percentage of humanity to understand equality of being, that money is not a measure of it, that height is not a measure of it.

  166. 166.

    Ruckus

    @Lapassionara:

    I like to point out that the very rich are still very rich even with those high tax rates. But. They are also often greedy to be even richer and own more houses – some they rarely or never actually live in. They want a place to stay for when they travel that is up to their standards because Shamus forbid that they actually might have to be around THOSE PEOPLE. shitforbrains is a member of that class, although not up to their standards of course. I’ve known a few rather wealthy humans when I worked in pro sports and only one of them was a complete and utter asshole. But to be fair he did make up for many of the others being actually human….

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