I went to bed at midnight eastern last night because it wasn’t looking good and I figured that I didn’t need to suffer in real time. And here we are.
Thinking back, there’s one campaign artifact that I think will probably be the tale of this election — Tim Walz’ attempt to convince four undecided voters to vote for Harris/Walz. They were three middle-aged males and one first-time woman voter.
The males were all wearing union shirts and worked, or had worked, union jobs. Their main concern was cost of living.
Walz’ talk about preventing price gouging didn’t seem to convince them of much. Biden being the best president for unions in modern history didn’t mean shit, because they still had anxiety about their jobs and, let’s face it, the Democratic party hasn’t been all that great for unions in the couple of decades before Biden.
I think the other factor is “Trump is just Trump” which makes it hard for Democratic attacks to do much to someone whose negatives are so baked in. His voters don’t care about his racism and, frankly, I’m sure racism played a part in Harris’ loss, as did sexism.
When you have a prosperous economy and prices are “too high”, well, it’s tough for the incumbent party. Losing the Senate was pretty much baked in to anything but a shockingly good Harris/Walz showing. The House is still possible and boy do we need it. I hope Pelosi is right.
Anyway, as LBJ on Twitter said, welcome to Texas. We’re all living in it now. Get your shots!
Quinerly
Excellent post.
Baud
I think people like taking us for granted. Makes them feel like a somebody.
What can you do?
catclub
On the Bulwark podcast last night,
They discussed the bubble that people are in. And the big bubble most of us on BJ are in, is not the loudmouth online left, but the one of people like us -educated,
believe in government, have _trust_ in government, – and who are much louder online that we care to admit.
But we think we are a majority because of the bubble we are in.
We ain’t.
raven
fuck LBJ
chrome agnomen
‘get your shots’. I said the very same thing this morning. time to covid up.
Quinerly
About that Iowa poll. Selzer is reviewing her data.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2024/11/05/pollster-j-ann-selzer-to-review-data-after-iowa-poll-misses-trump-win/76085598007/
zhena gogolia
@raven: Ooh, I missed that opportunity.
JML
Fear of the Other seems to continue to rule in this country and is tremendously sad. Find a minority in this country, point at them and tell people who aren’t happy with their lot in life “they’re the ones to blame, it’s their fault, they’re coming for you.” Promise the moon, lie your ass off, control the media, satisfy the oligarchy. That, my friends, is how you win elections.
UGH.
Are we truly this racist? This sexist? This afraid all the damn time? Is the only thing we’re looking for is someone to blame, and freedom to let our darkest impulses run loose without consequence?
I’m pretty crushed by this one. I was worried in 2016 because I knew just how much deep-seated hatred there was for Hillary and how big the double standards were. So while I was appalled, I wasn’t entirely surprised. I really thought the rejection of The Orange Idiot in 2020 would push him out of this and we might see a realignment in the GOP. And when Harris ran such a great, joyful, exciting campaign against an increasingly incomprehensible opponent, I really thought it was going to be over and that a positive vision would overcome the negativity and hate. People knew who The Orange Idiot was, we’d seen him flounder and fail and do terrible things…surely that would be enough?
I can’t comprehend people who vote for Tammy Baldwin and Trump. I can’t comprehend people who vote for Ruben Gallego and Trump. I mean, what the hells?!?!
Kay
They’re not going to be any happier with Trump though. He wasn’t actually popular when he was President.
He’ll be at 40% approval by the summer, and they’ll be casting around for someone new to blame. This Right wing shangri la they’re imagining ain’t gonna happen.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
So basically the take is that the Harris/Walz campaign didn’t campaign on:
“It’s the economy, stupid.”
Or that they had a tough sell in the first place and didn’t come up with convincing enough, strategic messaging to counter the other side’s efforts on “the economy”.
And, again from a strategic messaging perspective, that “democracy and abortion rights” didn’t resonate the way people thought it would. Oh, and Texas. Texas “going blue” is like controlled fusion, always 20 years off. Last night was just another example of that.
Lemme stress, this isn’t a start of a nasty recrimination melee because I have no clue and was totally onboard with the campaign. It’s just very disheartening to see a campaign that I think the vast majority of us thought was well run with great candidates, etc., lose to an opponent that’s most likely gonna get over 300 EVs and that really is head-explodingly awful.
catclub
@Quinerly: suddenly an enormous miss.
Baud
@JML:
There are a lot of people who should apologize to Hillary but won’t.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
We absolutely are in a bubble. We aren’t exposed to the disinformation because we know better than to trust those sources. We aren’t being targeted like others are.
oldgold
Any analysis on what happened to our “vaunted” ground game?
Steve LaBonne
@Kay: If Trump really manages his mass deportations and high tariff wall he will crash the economy. And this time there won’t be an imminent election in which Democrats can be tasked with cleaning up the mess before idiot voters throw them out again. Trump will own it.
p.a.
Whistling in the dark a bit but- given the incompetence of the tRumpist House of Reps, let’s see how an executive admin of tRumpists manages to pull off their big plans, especially when life happens: hurricanes, tornadoes, Putin pressuring the Baltic republics & maybe Poland (the obvious next steps) (see how those midwestern votes feel about him then). The next viral outbreak. Executive bureaucracy entropy as project 1325 seeks to tRumpify the civil service.
The last iteration was a clusterfuck, 1M Americans dead. Except 70+ million Americans don’t seem to remember that🤬
Ohio Mom
@chrome agnomen: I have all my shots. I can’t get next years flu and Covid shots until next year.
I already live fairly modestly. I guess I can cut back a little. I’m not sure what additional hatches I can batten down but I’ll be thinking about what Ohio Family needs to do to weather what’s next. I am anticipating Ohio Dad’s remote gig will end in the face of tariffs.
EM
I don’t doubt that racism was the primary factor here. We needed to win States like Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania and our candidate was a black woman. Never underestimate just how racist this country is.
But as far as the economy goes, there’s something very bizarre going on there. All the economic numbers are great, but everyone I know, including myself, who are currently in the job hunt, are finding it virtually impossible to find any kind of a job.
I’m experienced with a couple of college degrees, experience in my field and I’m on my 150th job application and can’t even get an interview, and the 10 or 15 people who are on the same situation are all experiencing the same thing. Someone actually just said to me this is the worst job market they’ve experienced since 08.
On LinkedIn a job gets posted and within 10 minutes over 100 people have applied to it. So I don’t know what’s going on, but a lot of people just are simply not feeling this wonderful economy.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Steve LaBonne: You are assuming he’ll do what he says he will. Who knows.
Shalimar
On a positive note, if their concern was inflation and they voted for Trump, the next 2 years are going to be a huge shock.
dearmaizie
Why? Death would be a blessing for a lot of us now.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@EM: Are you in IT? The industry is being aggressively outsourced.
catclub
Unfortunately many of their big plans are negative:
1. defund Ukraine
2. do nothing about Gaza
3. Stop pushing any green energy, climate change initiatives.
4. Not maintain all the great, unsexy things the Federal government does.
Shalimar
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: I am not sure we will get the mass deportations, because that costs a lot of money Republicans won’t want to spend and their business side is still opposed to getting rid of their cheap labor.
He can implement the high tariffs with one signature though. I doubt there is anyone who can talk him out of it.
White & Gold Purgatorian
Get current on all your shots, not just flu and Covid. Shingles? Pneumonia? Tetanus? Because you never know when vaccines might become unavailable.
I am devastated. This is more of an eye opener about our fellow citizens than 2016. Take care of each other. I plan to touch base today with some like minded people in hopes we can support each other in this disappointment and through the coming difficult times.
Math Guy
My failing is that I expect people to behave rationally and with a modicum of decency. “They” showed us who they are and still half the country is okay with that. My family are reaching out to each other and offering what comfort and support we can. My best to all of you.
VeniceRiley
Me, I’m going to file for sosec asap because I think they’ll abolish it for everyone not Already getting it, even though it’s going to hurt me financially. They’re not going to let my so gay wife have the benefits anyway, so might as well milk what I can from this loser country now. Trying to figure out what to do with my 403b. Can’t take it all at once. May not be wise to have to wait 5 years for a Roth to bake. Where to stick it? Maybe go all in on UK, since, luckily, I live here now.
Apologies for trying to protect my gay ass as my first and only thought for now. We tried. We failed. Time to make a reinforced bunker as quickly as possible. So many decisions.
And I hope everyone that voted for him enjoys the “find out” portion of their program.
catclub
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: yes, my thought
George
For years I’ve believed that fascism in the U.S. could not be defeated by ballots, but that we’d need a complete breakdown of the economy and great social unrest to cause meaningful change. Maybe I’m right, maybe I’m wrong.
I also have wondered for decades how the Nazis rose in Germany, and how so many otherwise apparently decent Germans looked the other way or directly supported the Nazis’ rise. How could a country so advanced in science, art, literature, etc., give itself over to fascism that led to extermination camps and, in the end, its own self-destruction?
Well, here we are. My current explanatory model is simpler than I ever thought it would be. Fascist demagogues believe in nothing but self-promotion, power, and hurting people. They are nothing more than psychopaths with a microphone and a podium. Supporting them are countless people who are nothing more than yes-men and yes-women who themselves find their fulfillment in being sycophants to the demagogue. In Germany and the U.S., that includes the business class, the media, the church, and others.
But fascism would not come to pass were it not for a large swath of the populace that is dumb, greedy, arrogant, bigoted, racist, etc. We saw that in the results last night.
I find comfort, perhaps, in the fact that the fascism now in the U.S. is not limited to America, or even to a white country. It’s in Hungary and Italy as well, and with Le Pen in France, but the same mindset can be found in India, Cuba, Brazil, and many other nations.
Layer8Problem
@dearmaizie: No.
AM in NC
@oldgold: We had an amazing ground game. I think that what we are seeing is that the only thing that matters is disinformation and a fractured media landscape. Until we deal with the rightwing billionaire funded media of the past few decades, things aren’t going to change. They reject the evidence they have seen themselves because of the onslaught of disinformation being fed to them.
And too many people aren’t literate/educated enough to filter out propaganda/disinformation.
Shalimar
@catclub: I don’t think I am in a bubble, but being highly educated does make it hard to accept just how stupid most people are about basic economics.
TBone
Here’s mud in his eye! 🎶🤬
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PVPSC321Fg8
gene108
In the 2016 post-mortem, , the BBC did reports on the Trump campaign hiring Cambridge Analytica and Peter Thiel to manage the data mining operation to target online ads through social media.
The BBC reported the granularity this operation focused on when reaching out to potential voters was not whether or not to send an ad with a pickup truck to a group of voters, but whether a white or red pickup truck would be more effective in engagement.
If reports of pro-Republican Spanish language social media influence is indicative, I think Republicans and Peter Thiel and other tech folks are refining an already sophisticated operation.
I’m not sure how aware Democrats are of their ability to microtarget ads on social media relative to Republicans.
MobiusKlein
I’m thinking the Obama style “Hope and Change” playbook is done.
Optimism did not jibe with where folks were, and star endorsements seemed unhelpful
hueyplong
This is not in any way meant in disrespect, but I was initially all “what a world, what a world” to be bucked up by a post from Kay.
I’ve always kind of liked this place and hope that Cole’s next dip in satisfaction with his fellow humans doesn’t prevent him from keeping it open during our upcoming bumpy flight of uncertain duration.
suzanne
I think a staggering number of men feel about women similarly to how I feel about my dog. I adore my dog, but she isn’t allowed up on the couch, either.
Renie
First day in my 67 years I’m not proud to be an American. Never realized the scope of how many people in this country are horrible vile persons. If I didn’t have children my husband and I would move to Ireland. Dark days ahead.
Rileys Enabler
I’m surprised that I am so surprised by this. I really thought we were going to be able to win just based on the backlash to Roe. Women’s bodily autonomy and all that. I will never understand how women voted against their own rights. But here we are and I’m tired. I want to have hope, I want to work but why? Why work with a country that sees us as second class citizens? I’m going to have to think on this a long time. The misogyny and racism have hit hard and deep, and I don’t see any answers towards the removal of either.
Steve in the ATL
And never mind that the republican party has been openly trying to destroy union since at least the 1970’s. Openly.
Curious to see whether Sean O’Brien’s gambit will pay off. I’m betting not, but what do I know?
TBone
The blood of rage is coursing through my veins so, today, I will sit with that. And celebrate it. Just for today. 🎶
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=blEteets5FI
cmorenc
RFK Jr as Sec of HHS isn’t the worst of Trump’s likely selections.
Say hello to SCOTUS Justice Aileen Cannon – when one of the older RW SCOTUS Justices decide this is a good time to retire and be replaced by a like-minded successor. And Trump is crass enough to reward her – Trump was dead in the water with no viable defense except to hope for outright jury nullification on the stolen classified documents case had it gone to trial.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@AM in NC:
I think you’re onto something.
Trump’s campaign was, by standards of recent campaigns, terrible. His ground game was outsourced to Musk and also terrible.
Those things don’t matter — for Republicans. I still think they matter for Democrats.
hueyplong
@Steve in the ATL: If I understand what you do, pretty soon you might not be needed anymore. (I don’t mean around here.)
The adversarial process kind of requires functioning adversaries.
Glidwrith
Two family members still need their Covid booster. Any medical exams we’ve been putting off are moving to the top of the list. We’re getting a full earthquake kit and water supplies, because help won’t be coming. We’re deciding whether to pull our money out of the stock market. Essentially bunkering up.
Renie
@VeniceRiley: at least change the allocation in your 403b to be more conservative. That’s what my husband and I are doing for his IRA
@mistermix.bsky.social
@catclub:
Agreed. Put another way, this election, and the rise of Trump, is a union between educated elites (the grifters) and less-educated working class and poor voters (the marks).
Leto
@JML:
Yes? It’s baked into our founding documents:
Racism and fear were foundational to bringing those 13 colonies together, and here we are today. The same fear of “the Other,” the same racism, just now with more misogyny.
I’ve got class to get ready for. It’s going to be a long day.
Eolirin
@Steve LaBonne: It’s okay, there won’t be an election after that either, so.
Cheap real estate for property managers to buy up. Wages will collapse.
Outside of rioting in the streets, not sure what can be done about it.
catclub
Apparently the difference between the population of voters in this election versus all the other post Dobbs elections, where Dobbs was on the ballot, is enormous. I still cannot get over that 18% miss in Kansas polling. Given those previous elections, abortion rights looked like a winner – and it still won most of the ballots it was on.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
I too wondered about our well-funded and vaunted ground game. I saw this comment at electoral-vote:
So it raises the question of why Democrats stayed home. Or is that an accurate characterization of how things played out? Sigh, it all sucks.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@EM:
The white collar job market is very, very soft. All my clients have had recent layoffs. They aren’t hiring (or are hiring very strategically). I think we’re at the tipping point of a recession of some kind.
p.a.
You can provide all the fucking information in the world, all the hand-holding “here’s what needs doing, here’s where you need to be.” If it can’t penetrate the filter of racism, sexism, bigotry, mis and disinformation… 🤷🏻♂️
hueyplong
@cmorenc: Trump ain’t that big on rewards for others, and I doubt she’s got the $2 million ante to be considered. That’s the “best” case I can make for not seeing Justice Cannon.
NeenerNeener
On a positive note: Thomas and Alito can retire next year.
The negative is that their replacements will be even more evil and considerably younger.
cintibud
Still looking for pieces of my totally smacked gob.
Now I’m really starting to wonder, maybe rump really is the anti-christ.
Percysowner
Comment moved below.
Kay
I get not paying for mainstream media (and I cancelled my own WaPo subscription) but I think Democrats have to get off Twitter too.
It’s owned by a racist South African oligarch who pushed GOP content and silenced Dem content. You can’t contribute to Elon Musk’s bottom line – he hates you.
We need our own platform.
The Truffle
@Steve LaBonne: Maybe we needed an FDR all along. I really suspect Trump/Vance will be akin to Hoover.
p.a.
@Leto: Recently read some Gordon Wood (very top US Colonial & Early Republic historian) that the time of the American Revolution, most Anglo educated elites of the anti-monarchical parties were deeply into conspiracy theories. It was their way of explaining a world where things didn’t go to plan.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I’ll definitely be looking at this in the future.
Percysowner
@cintibud:
Maybe he is. In which case the greatest irony would be if those who worked against him are the ones to get “raptured up”. I don’t believe in that, but boy if I’m wrong and it happens, I will laugh and laugh and then NOT do the evangelical thing of looking down and enjoying the pain left here.
WaPo is asking women how they feel about Trump’s election. I was going to answer, but in order to submit I had to give name, email and phone number and I really don’t feel like giving them a list to give to the new dictator so he knows who to arrest is a great idea. I don’t trust Bezos or any of the media outlets right now.
Starfish
@EM: I am sorry that job hunting has been hard. There are people who have created plugins for browsers to hide the “100 people have applied” thing on LinkedIn because it is just not good for the well-being of job applicants.
If you can work your network to get real referrals from actual humans, do that. There are people spamming the world with AI generated resumes. These are not qualified applicants. But they are applicants.
tobie
@cmorenc: Oh gosh…I worry about the safety of every prosecutor who has worked on the Jan 6 and documents case.
Leto
@gene108: did we ever counter them buying up local radio stations and flooding the airwaves with Republican propaganda, because a lot of Latinos still get their info via radio? No? Kk.
Mai Naem mobile
@EM: i have a family friend who graduated with a masters in May,.2023 and has not been able to find a job in her field. Luckily she’s got an okay low level job which at least pays for her living expenses. She doesn’t have a lot of experience but solid references and academic credentials. She’s been sending out resumes since before she graduated. She’s only gotten 2 interviews and those were tangentially related to her field. Coming from an old fart like me, the interviews sound like nightmares. I have no idea how people deal with interviews like these. Zoom interviews with multiple people in different locations wotldwide shooting you questions like you’re defending a dissertation. I told her she should have just become an electrician. It would have been way less education and way more income!
suzanne
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
Those things are now coded as feminized, effete, luxury beliefs.
cmorenc
@George:
Trump successfully fanned hysteria over illegal immigration and border crossings. All you Hispanics who voted for Trump had better have a validly certified ID on you at all times, of the sort where proof of citizenship is required to obtain it. Cause that’s exactly the consequence you voted for.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Kay:
This – 100X
Also, on your previous comment that those who voted for Trump won’t be happy with him, I agree. I see this election as back to form for the US elections in the recent past — we’re driving down the road and even though things are going OK, the electorate doesn’t think so, so they grab the steering wheel and puts us in the ditch on one side of the road. Then, when they decide the ditch is no fun, they grab the wheel again and put us back on the road.
Their votes are protest votes, fed by the media they consume that tells them that everything is shit. Then, when things don’t change, Dems get a wee little chance for maybe 2 years, then it’s back into the ditch.
Quinerly
Google the past 3 elections in Hazelton, PA. Eye opening.
Starfish
@Shalimar: The concern was not “inflation” but continued shock at where prices are now. People wanted to see prices go down, but you know eggs are going to be high if various flocks of chickens are getting interesting new diseases.
Kirk
After this, 2016, and the fact we got two terms of Obama, I’ll stand on the position that it’s the misogyny.
For the rest, well, still I stand, I can do no other.
karen marie
I don’t care “why” – because I know why – “my fellow Americans” are assholes, and I hope they get exactly what they voted for, good and fucking hard. And that goes twice for the fucking media.
Leto
@p.a.: I’d suggest the one I just read for my US Revolution and Constitution class: 13 Clocks: How Race United the Colonies and Made the Declaration of Independence.
My professor was a student of Dr Parkinson during his doctoral program. This is a quick 200 page excerpt from his 800 page book and it’s really informative.
hueyplong
Should people who are eligible for Social Security but have not taken it so as to wait for a higher rate change course and sign up right now? I’m thinking the new regime might grandfather existing accounts as they begin the hacking down process so as to delay the day of their own base experiencing a bit of face eating from the never-sated leopard.
Possessing even a little empathy makes it difficult to predict their behavior.
cmorenc
@NeenerNeener:
Say hello to SCOTUS Justice Aileen Cannon. Trump is transactionally cynical enough to reward her for effectively spiking the stolen classified documents case, which even the SCOTUS immunity decision provided no defense. Had it gone to trial, Trump was dead in the water with any defense other than appeal to jury nullification. And at least for the next 2 years, Trump has the Senate votes to confirm her.
Starfish
@hueyplong: You know, the person who I feel for the most is John Cole. He busted his butt working to help Democrats in a state where nothing was going to be done, and he did it anyway.
I think that we need to learn from that level of stubborn perseverance.
Yarrow
@Ohio Mom:
Are you up to date boosters for measles, whooping cough, tetanus, etc.? Better get them before RFK decides to outlaw them. I’ll be looking into them this week.
Kay
Most of my clients are Trump voters. This idea that Democrats can explain the economy to them is just nonsense. They get mad when food prices go up and they blame. That’s the extent of their thought on it.
When Trump doesn’t bring food prices down to the rock bottom they became accustomed to they will again be discontented and angry.
They think they are entitled to 2% unemployment, high wages, 2% interest rates, cheap food and consumer goods and low cost, but new and LARGE housing. Oh, and women. They are entitled to a wife or gf.
This hissy fit they just pitched isn’t going to make them any more content. They’ll flip again in the next cycle, because they’re fucking fickle four year olds who demand a menu of conflicting and contradictory “benefits” which no one can deliver.
Trump will be at 45% by June and it’ll go down from there. And they’ll pitch another fit next cycle.
The Truffle
@NeenerNeener: I hope that Sonia Sotomayor stays on.
tam1MI
The lesson Dems should take from this is that the next time George Clooney comes around offering unsolicited advice about ditching a successful President, he should be told to fuck off straight into the sun.
But they won’t take this lesson, instead they will help all the blame on Harris and absolve themselves of any and all responsibility for the fiasco they engineered.
Nettoyeur
@Shalimar: An attempt to put in high tariffs will hit a lot of businesses owned by rich people that employ lots of Americans. Clothing, cars, electronics and mechanical equipment all have huge imported content. US wages are far too high to allow building up of domestic sources for much of this. Remember the Carrier AC company that Trump loudly promised to save back in 2016? It went to Mexico anyway. Protectionism is like that. The effect on prices will be like adding a national sales tax like that in European countries, which runs to ~20%. Better upgrade your phone, computer and car before 20 Jan.
Starfish
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Did Democrats stay home OR did they skip the top of the line election OR did they have their ballots thrown out.
I think the way that people want to blame someone instead of look at disenfranchisement is always a distraction.
Chris Johnson
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: It sure didn’t look like Dems were staying home, on the campaign trail. I think it’s plausible that all the Trump people simply sat in stubbornness, didn’t attend his rallies, and then voted. A lot of them didn’t come out to see him, and rightly so, because it would’ve been a buzzkill.
I do NOT see an argument that this time around, all the Dems stayed home. That’s… a weird fuckin’ take. Is the idea that everything we saw, was way sub-Hillary? What about all the public Republicans flipping? Were they lying? The thing about those is, they’re burned. Trumpists will not trust them, those Republicans are forced to work with us or die. They will be the FIRST to be targeted. I’m picturing the Cheneys, as Trump described, except they’re shooting back.
cmorenc
@Yarrow:
More likely than RFK attempting to outlaw vaccines is that he will attempt to undermine or withdraw federal support for financing them or requiring health insurance companies to cover them. And require doctors, pharmacists etc. administering them to first read you a list of dire warnings about the high risks of going ahead with the vaccination.
Kay
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
Agreed. Their new far Right government isn’t going to make them any happier than their old center Right government.
That’s also the pattern all over the world. Country after country has gone far Right and the respective populations remain enraged and discontent. It won’t be any different here.
They can not, actually, go back in time to a romanticized past that never existed. That’s a fantasy.
Josie
@AM in NC:
This. We are not the ones in a bubble. The majority of citizens are in a bubble of disinformation caused by foreign interference and billionaire pacs and media. I don’t know how to counter that, but it is something we must figure out in order to survive politically.
Mai Naem mobile
@@mistermix.bsky.social: you need the same ecosystem the right has in the media. All the wingnut welfare circuit+RW radio+multiple RW tv+RW bros podcasts+RW newssources like The Dispatch, The Hill and Bulwark. The only one the left comes anywhere close to the right on is the podcasts.
UncleEbeneezer
@JML: Racism, Misogyny, Xenophobia, Transphobia, Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, etc. Pick your poison. And America is fatally addicted to all of them.
The worst part for me is having spent the past eight years learning about all of them, trying to be an ally for their victims (Black People, Women, Immigrants, Trans/NB People, Jews, Muslims etc.) and truly learning to appreciate and love them…only to realize just how hated they all are by my fellow citizens. It’s gut-wrenching.
White Supremacy (which includes all those other Isms/Phobias) is a fucking menace. So much so that even saying the truth out loud causes people to embrace Fascism. I have no idea what to do about that. The world is going backwards and it’s horrifying. I’ll continue to try to stand with the marginalized groups and speak up for them but shit’s about to get real ugly. I have no idea how you convince people to stop choosing Fascism. I’m all out of ideas.
Peace and love to everyone here. This sucks. We don’t deserve this. But I’m glad to know good people exist and I don’t regret for a minute allowing myself to feel hope for Kamala. I’ll do it again.
Eolirin
@White & Gold Purgatorian: Mifepristone is probably going to go away too.
catclub
I would say now that a large population of the US wants any problem fixed immediately and will vote out
the incumbent on a whim. What we forget is actually how badly Trump managed the Covid epidemic
and that vote was against all the badness of the epidemic.
… and 4 years later the same set of voters also forgot all that they had been mad about.
p.a.
@Kay: Hmmm… a nation of toddlers elects the world’s biggest, loudest toddler who promises milk, cookies, and no nappytime.
When the house is a shithole an adult gets elected until the toddlers want milk and cookies instead of carrot sticks. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Except this time the toddler’s enablers are angling to do away with real elections.
louc
@VeniceRiley: Me too. I was going to work until next June. Nope, collecting it ASAP because I’m sure Trump will not want to piss off his base of people collecting SS. Who knows?
Then I’m selling my house in Washington, D.C. and moving somewhere along the Canadian border (just in case).
VeniceRiley
@Kay: Thank you for confirming the truth.
Chris Johnson
@The Truffle: That is the truest thing ever said.
I do really think Trump is there to HURT us, not ‘make us great’, and so there can be more pandemics, less healthcare, more division, because it doesn’t have to be towards strength, it has to be towards implosion and leaving Russia as the only survivor of what was formerly the cold war.
That’s what Trump is for, even without the tendency of fascists to overreach and screw everything up.
So he WILL absolutely be Hoover, assuming he does seize power and all. He will be a mad king, attacking his own people on the slightest provocation, ever susceptible to flattery and bullshit, a deeply stupid man.
It’s possible that nobody however smart would be able to cope with the changes coming on, but Trump is the ‘solve hurricanes by wiping out FEMA and NOAA’ guy. Guaranteed he will be a shitshow and we actually need more competence by the year. Instead, we gotta plan for that FDR, for surviving the collapse and not being continually steered by fascist bad actors that have discovered the internet, as Hitler’s people discovered the radio.
Chris
@p.a.:
Ben in RVA who used to comment at LGM had a theory that the Republican Party has always been like this – parochial, paranoid, conspiratorial, always looking for perceived elites plotting against the people.
The nation was just fortunate enough that when the Republican Party was formed, there really was an elite conspiracy to subvert the entire country under the tyranny of the elites. Namely, what people back then called “the Slave Power.” And that was what Republicans initially chose to focus on.
Once that was defeated, or at least quarantined off in one part of the nation, Republicans kept looking for new hidden conspiracies, and becoming increasingly unhinged about them. Catholicism, Communism, the United Nations, George Soros, Antifa, whatever the fuck “the woke agenda” is.
Never been entirely convinced, but it’s a thought.
catclub
@Josie: I think we are in a bubble that is not dominated by that disinformation. Hence we have little idea of the experience of all those voters whose votes we do not understand.
YY_Sima Qian
@Nettoyeur: I am pretty sure Trump will use tariffs, both the threat of them & their imposition, as negotiation leverage to get the best “deal” possible, that he can tout. The real danger is folks like Robert Lightgizer, who is a committed trade warrior, & is committed to tariff (the imports) and devaluate (the USD) his way to a manufacturing renaissance in the US. The plan, of course, ignores that the US’ trade partners will retaliate & aggressively devalue their currencies, & that the US does not have the human capital or the deep & extensive value chains to rebuild manufacturing in short order, & the xenophobia of the white Herrenvolk ethno-nationalists will make the short fall in human capital that much worse.
Case in point: while DC think tanks publish policy papers recommending the US try to take advantage of the more hardline authoritarian turn under Xi to drain the potentially disaffected talent from the PRC, in reality the FBI “China Initiative” launched under Trump (that Biden had been slow to end) drove thousands of ethnic Chinese (both PRC nationals & Chinese Americans) researchers & academics out of the US, & their top destination has been the PRC.
Mai Naem mobile
@cmorenc: I’ve given up on Hispanics. It’s definitely anecdotal on my part but I’ve seen way too many Hispanics IRL who are Trumpers or Trump curious. The recent first gen hispanic immigrants I’m afraid are going the way of Italian Americans. I believe Italian Americans are the ones who’ve become big GOPrs over the years. These new immigrants don’t even understand the US political system or how government works.
catclub
maaaaaybe? Much of the economy was great when he was elected, but the farmers had been already hit hard by change.
Steve LaBonne
@Chris Johnson: The question- an open one, I think- is whether it will still be possible to vote them out after they fuck up.
tobie
@catclub:
This is so true and it’s why I’ve always recoiled from the line, “The President can fix it with the stroke of a pen.” No, that’s not how complex systems like a federalist system of govt or $29 trillion economy work. The strong man theory of govt and the penchant for conspiracy theories in the public are viruses that have destroyed our body politic. I’m by turns devastated and furious today.
Chris Johnson
@Steve LaBonne: We didn’t have a vote under King George, y’know. We’re not fixing to break the system, but back when it was England’s system we were all game to break that.
kalakal
@Yarrow:
One area where reality will bite them in the ass. Tragically the return of very high infant mortality due to preventable disease. When Measles starts doing it’s thing along with Polio etc. Thank fuck Smallpox is extinct
RaflW
“Welcome to Texas. We’re all living in it now.”
I tried that. At least Ann Richards was governor for part of my time there. But her loss feels like the off-Broadway preview of what the whole country is gonna go through now as the worst version of a Broadway hit.
And I am very, very tired 30 years later.
Eolirin
@Chris Johnson: We also had the ability to raise the cost of maintaining power against a far away nation to a point beyond what they were willing to pay.
That’s not a comparable situation to domestic autocracy. They’re historically very durable, even in the face of crisis. Losing power means the people at the top lose everything. They will fight that to the end through any means they have access to.
The Thin Black Duke
One narrative that needs to go away is the idea that the voters did what they did because they’re “uneducated”. I think that’s BS. Trump and Vance and everyone who was at MSG that night were very goddamned specific about who they were and what they wanted to do.
Americans chose this. I’ll be damned if I’m gonna give them an alibi.
Chris
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
I think that’s what’s made me the most fucking exhausted, and cranky, about last night. My entire fucking life has been a repeat act of “Republicans crash the nation, electorate begs the Democrats to save them, barely gives them anything they need to do it, starts screaming in horror about ten seconds after they start doing the work because not everything’s done yet, then sends them away the first chance it gets and invites the people who broke everything right back in.”
I’m not even sure what the analogy for this is. I feel like I’m a mechanic who keeps being called back to work on the exact same car and explaining to the exact same idiot, for the tenth or twentieth time, that sir, you cannot drive the car with the parking brake on, it is going to fucking wreck it. Or like I’m a shoulder to cry on for the same friend who calls me once a month sobbing that their boyfriend/girlfriend cheated on them again, exactly like I told them they would the last eleven times this happened only for them to get back together a week later. Actually, no, what I really feel like is Jim Carrey from Liar Liar, getting yet another phone call from his client who knocked over an ATM again and was arrested for it again: “STOP BREAKING THE LAW, ASSHOLE!!!!”
I’m just fucking exhausted, and because of it, even the sunny optimistic takes about how we could turn this around in 2026 or 2028 are making me want to punch someone. Not, to be clear, the people making these takes. But so many people in this country. I’m just so fucking tired of being the national maid.
Starfish
@The Thin Black Duke: Agreed.
This “oh you misguided soul, voting against your own interest” is condescending and feeds some pathological liberal need to not grapple with the idea that some people just choose to do bad things and really enjoy doing bad things.
Starfish
Votebeat (in the same news umbrella as chalkbeat) is going to do some sort of analysis on Zoom at 2pm EST. I probably won’t make it to that, but here is the link for anyone who wants to join their Zoom.
UncleEbeneezer
@Chris: Conspiracy Theory bullshit is not just a problem on their side. There’s plenty of it on ours too. And so can Independent/NPA types. It’s huge problem.
Shalimar
@Starfish: This is what I mean about people being economically innumerate. Overall prices should not go down. Deflation is far worse for an economy than inflation.
JML
@The Thin Black Duke: Yeah. and any post-election argument of “the voters didn’t understand” is a loser.
I’ll be very interested to see where the Latino vote went this election (you know, once I drag myself out of the pit of despair and so on) and whether or not they can break it out into more detailed ethnic strains. We’re seeing some reporting that vote went for The Orange Asshole, and I want to understand that because the GOP does not care about brown people. But maybe being mean to and enabling hate against the LGBTQ community is enough. maybe appealing to a continuation of a controlling patriarchal structure is somehow getting it done.
And clearly, there be waaaay too many fundy white suburban and ex-urban women out there.
SFAW
@Steve LaBonne:
New to this country, are you?
Seriously: he has (almost) never been blamed for a bunch of the terrible results his actions caused, except by the extremely-online community (or whatever the right term is). As a starter: the preventable death and destruction — including the predicted inflation — wrought by COVID? Not even close; he should have been wiped out in the 2020 election, and yet it came down to something like 50K or 80K votes in key states.
There are more, but it’s not worth enumerating them.
SFAW
@Chris:
That was Nassau County’s [NY] cycle, starting at least 20 years ago. Probably a bunch of other places, too.
Chris
@Kay:
They’d fucking hate to go back.
Can you imagine? Eating the same few meals again and again for the rest of your life? No Netflix or porn or football games? No air conditioning or heating or electricity? None of the myriad government services they’re too thick to even realize they use? No fucking toilet paper?
The average first world citizen would blow their brains out within a month if you time-traveled them back to the world as little as a hundred years ago. There’s a reason we don’t live like that anymore. We could! Nothing prevents people from living off the grid like a mountain man, or even forming a community of such people. 99% of people don’t do it because that life sucks hairy ass.
Starfish
@Chris: No sports betting, no crypto currency, no self-driving taxis…
Wait! Can I go back to the past?
Mai Naem mobile
@JML: i read somewhere that TFG gained 20-24 percent from his 2020 numbers in the heaviest hispanic counties in Texas. The overall gain was four percent.
Soprano2
@AM in NC: I think there is a lot of disinformation on Spanish radio and TV that we weren’t countering effectively.
UncleEbeneezer
@JML: White Supremacy isn’t only for White People. Latinos, Asian-Americans etc., can also find it appealing. That, to me, is the nut of the problem we face with Latino voters.
Chris
@Mai Naem mobile:
The thing is that traditionally, the party had to hit the brakes on the racism before it could get socially conservative immigrants’ votes. Italians (and other white ethnics) have a lot of Republicans now, sure, and have since the sixties, but not in the twenties when they were the prime targets of the era’s immigration panic. That had to stop first, and then a little time had to pass.
What Trump is showing is that he doesn’t have to lift the brakes on the racist rhetoric at all, in fact he can just dial it up, and many of the affected communities will come running anyway.
For the last fifty years the Democratic Party has been built on being the refuge for people targeted by racism. If these people don’t care anymore, or at least don’t care enough to be a reliable voting bloc, then we’re watching the same kind of shit-show the party experienced a few decades back, when all of a sudden they found that union members no longer cared about the Party of the New Deal, and were perfectly happy to snuggle up to Nixon and Reagan even as they doubled down on the union-busting. It was an existential crisis for the party, and this will be too. I have no idea what it adopts as an identity next.
Soprano2
@Chris Johnson: I heard an interview on “This American Life” with Alexander Vindman. He was planning to leave the country if TCFG was elected, because he’s convinced that he’ll be tried for treason if he stays here.
Soprano2
@Kay: I can already hear Bill Maher, who claims to have his finger on the pulse of blue collar America, blaming this all on “wokeism”, and saying that if only the Democrats would throw every one of their constituencies under the bus they could win elections.
I also think some of this is Hispanics seeing themselves as white, and voting that way.
Chris
@JML:
One oddity I was commenting on all the way back in the teabagger years is that Republicans were to some extent just becoming the party of bigots full stop, rather than any particular ethnicity. There weren’t a lot of Muslim Republicans, but you could be sure those who were were raging homophobes. There weren’t a lot of gay Republicans, but you could be sure those that were were raging Islamophobes. And so forth. While you might still find a few white people who were just fucking clueless rather than malignant and voting for the party on account of that, Republicans from demographics most Republicans hated were, universally, some of the nastiest fucking bigots on the planet, people who were so consumed by their hate for X, Y, or Z, that they didn’t even care how much danger they were putting themselves in so long as they hurt these demographics.
(See also, Clarence Thomas).
This election shows the phenomenon isn’t fringe anymore, and they really have managed to activate large numbers of those minority bigots, without having to give up an inch of their prejudices anyway.
Geminid
@Soprano2: I wonder if Alexander Vindman will in fact leave now that his brother has been elected to Congress in the Virginia 7th CD. Eugene Vindman faces much of the hostility as his better known brother.
But, that’s Alexander’s decision and I wish him well either way.
YY_Sima Qian
@Chris: Dems need to stop being the left of center to centrist party, & playing footsie w/ the center right to try to capture votes of few former Repubs disaffected by the R’s far right metamorphosis. Like much of the rest of the world, people across the political spectrum have lost faith in the Establishment, in the elites, in the institutions, & are disgusted w/the status quo. One party marketed itself as an insurgent to burn all of that down, while the other marketed itself as the defender to preserve it in total, Most voters don’t have the time, knowledge & inclination to think through the consequences of burning the world down.
I don’t think there are that many votes to be found at the center during these anti-Establishment times. Dems need to be unapologetically & convincingly progressive & Left, while promoting & defending liberal social values & minority rights. Liberals, progressives & Leftists (however nebulously they are defined) need to commit to being the bedrocks of an anti-Fascist coalition, which serves as the sole vessel to secure their political & personal survival, no more scapegoating parts of the coalition for losses (whether in the ballot box or heaven forbid on the battlefield later). The Centrists, the “enlightened” elites, capital owners & natsec technocrats can join the coalition, too, but will not be allowed to set the agenda. If their commitment to anti-Fascism can be shaken by policy proposals that no longer treat capital accumulation or US global primacy as sacrosanct, then they are not part of the solution.
Marmot
@UncleEbeneezer:
Can we please ditch this tired framework? It’s equal-opportunity bigotry and scapegoating.
Get real. We’ve got across-the-board bigotry and a broad love of scapegoating.
And do you mean “the supremacy of white people”? Or the belief that white people should be supreme? They’re not the same thing, and in the past few years, our side fed that ambiguity.
I don’t know either. But it starts with a broad, constant indictment of hypocrisy and corruption, and giving our fellow citizens the idea that they can absolve themselves by choosing sides. Good luck to us all!
Marmot
@YY_Sima Qian: Holy shit, THIS!
evodevo
@Chris: Yeah…I really liked the series The 1900 House where a modern family was confined to living using only the amenities available in the Edwardian era. What a revelation…
Johannes
@Renie: This, yeah.
Gloria DryGarden
@Quinerly: do you want to put it together as a guest post?
Paul in KY
@Kirk: I think it is too. There is a slice of voters who ‘usually’ would vote for our candidate, but absolutely will not vote for a female for President. We have to understand that, as much as it sucks.