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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Drink the Champagne Already

Drink the Champagne Already

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Drink the Champagne Already

I was talking to my 94 year-old dad yesterday and he mentioned that he had a bottle of champagne chilled but now had no reason to drink it.  We went through the dreary list of who (and which initiatives) lost, but he hadn’t heard that Gallego had won in Arizona, so he was happy to have an excuse to pop the bottle.  (I’m sure I saw a call go by on election night, but I just checked and I guess it’s too close to call, but looks like he’ll win, so whatever.)

Similarly Rebecca Shoenkopf at Wonkette:

[…] We ate pizza and drank the champagne I had chilled earlier in the week. After 2016, I waited something like three years to drink the Hillary champagne; I think it was when he finally got impeached, lol shruggy emoticon. This time I decided there was no reason not to, it’s the end of days! (Erma Bombeck — or Dear Abby? — said to use the fancy soap and light the fancy candles. What are you saving them for?)

That’s the sum total of my life advice on the election: drink your champagne no matter what.

(Also, the image is from a post on humanist funerals, so grimly appropriate.)

Reader Interactions

230Comments

  5. 5.

    The Audacity of Krope

    This election finally gave me the kick I needed to get completely out of corporate employment and I’m making serious arrangements to earn my way on my own.

  7. 7.

    FDRLincoln

    Saw my therapist this morning. I greeted him with “so what to we do now that Palpatine has been elected Chancellor with a clear majority in favor of tyranny?”

    He’s a Star Wars guy, a nice thing to have a therapist, so he knew what I was talking about right away.

    We had a good talk but I honestly don’t feel any better. We went over the various scenarios from “it sucks but we’ll survive it” to “catastrophic collapse of social and economic order.”

    I have realized a few things recently. I’ve obtained most of my main personal goals in life, and if I died tomorrow, I’d be OK with that (assuming the death isn’t too painful). But my wife has a chronic illness and my son is autistic/special needs and I have to keep going to keep them safe.

    So on we keep going.

  10. 10.

    Poe Larity

    If Biden resigned now and Kamala didn’t appoint a new VP, what would happen in January?

    Asking for a friend.

  13. 13.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @zhena gogolia: No more feeding the beast. The blight of capital will have to do with less of my help. I’m making merch for my buddy’s online fans. And maybe websites. I’ll have to re-up my knowledge there.

  14. 14.

    Belafon

    @Poe Larity: If you look at the list of Presidents and Vice Presidents throughout US history, you will note multiple times where a President didn’t have a VP for an extended time.

  15. 15.

    Old School

    Liberal Hysteria Ignores Constitutional Safeguards

    It will actually not be possible for Trump to do anything illegal in his second term, thanks to presidential immunity.

    — New York Times Pitchbot (@DougJBalloon) November 7, 2024

  16. 16.

    FDRLincoln

    2016 felt a lot different. The feeling then was that we got fucked by the malfunction of the Electoral College and Trump wasn’t really what the people wanted. I was angry and fearful and it all felt unjust.

    This is different.

    The American people, the majority of the electorate, CHOSE THIS. They are knowingly, without excuse, choosing fascism.

    I hope they get what they want. My only concern now is trying to shield my family and vulnerable friends.

    Everyone who voted for Trump deserves what happens to them. I just want to protect those of us who didn’t

    It is a much different form of despair I guess. But not mixed with a sense of injustice caused by the EC.

  18. 18.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @FDRLincoln: I hope they get what they want.

    I suspect the fascists will. The ignorant and compliant will be shocked to see what Trump does even though it will be precisely what we warned, then learn nothing.

  19. 19.

    West of the Cascades

    @The Audacity of Krope: Good on you, and good luck. The 2004 election gave me the impetus to jump into public interest litigation from a corporate job. Actually it was the 2004 election plus the R.E.M. show I went to two nights after (any guess as to the first song they played?)

  21. 21.

    different-church-lady

    @FDRLincoln:

    I hope they get what they want. My only concern now is trying to shield my family and vulnerable friends.

    They want your family and friends to suffer, so I’m not hoping that.

    I think you mean, “I hope they get what they deserve.”

  24. 24.

    Raoul Paste

    We drank some gluhwein on Tuesday night.  Never had it before, it’s a Christmas tradition in Europe.  I’d recommend it, and no reason to wait till Christmas

  25. 25.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Wear your nice clothes.  Drive your classic car if you have one.  Use the good china.  Go for a bike ride.  We are still alive.  Live.

  26. 26.

    Hildebrand

    @FDRLincoln: There are two buckets of people that drive me around the bend:

    1. The wretched people who voted for Trump – who seemingly just live to hurt people who aren’t like them.

    2. The apathetic or purity-pony knaves who sat out this election for ‘reasons’

  29. 29.

    FDRLincoln

    @different-church-lady: Yeah, I mean get what they deserve.

    I want the hammer of fascism to fall hard on every fascist who voted for it and thought they would be immune

    If you vote for a person who you know is a fascist, that makes you a fascist.

  31. 31.

    rikyrah

    OH WELL

     

    @TheCoreyRichardson on Threads. Follow Me There. (@vexedinthecity) posted at 10:51 AM on Thu, Nov 07, 2024:
    The people in my autism parenting groups who are just figuring out what gutting the Department of Education is going to do to their kids, after they voted for Trump. Whew, chile. It’s a whole lotta, “They can’t do that, right?” Nah, bro. They can and they’re gonna.
    (https://x.com/vexedinthecity/status/1854567270850105585?s=03)

  34. 34.

    different-church-lady

    @rikyrah: Product ain’t even delivered and they’re already having buyer’s remorse?

    PAY ATTENTION NEXT TIME, FUCKHEADS.

  35. 35.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Poe Larity:

    If Biden resigned now and Kamala didn’t appoint a new VP, what would happen in January?

    If Pence had been unavoidably detained on 1/6/2021, the Senate President pro tempore (Charles Grassley at that time) would have presided over the counting of the electoral votes, if that’s what your, um, friend is wondering.

  36. 36.

    Old School

    @Poe Larity:

    If Biden resigned now and Kamala didn’t appoint a new VP, what would happen in January?

    All of his 47-branded merch would be worthless?

  37. 37.

    Captain C

    @Hildebrand:

    The apathetic or purity-pony knaves who sat out this election for ‘reasons’

    Like my cosplay revolutionary Facebook friend who bragged about voting for her mom and housekeeper.

  38. 38.

    KatKapCC

    @rikyrah: I feel bad for the kids but not the parents. Oh, you’re scared? Good. Be scared, you worthless sacks of shit. In fact, I feel even worse for the kids because they have such horrid wastes of skin for parents.

  39. 39.

    different-church-lady

    @rikyrah: ​Fuckin’ 2016 all over again: “You need to address their economic anxiety!” “Yeah? How do we do that without embracing coded racism, Einstein?”

  40. 40.

    JMG

    It’s my son’s 40th birthday a week from Saturday. His wife is having a party for him in Boston. My daughter is flying in from France for it. Both are extremely freaked out about the election (being in charge of US sales for a French wine firm took a turn for the worse), but when they get here, we will all be joyous. I insist on it.

    Fun fact: Josh was President of the BU Democrats his senior year. Hope was President her senior year. One of the Presidents in between their tenures was AOC.

  41. 41.

    Dr. Regina Phalange

    We drank champagne on Election Day, not because we anticipated a win, but because it was a historic day and I was in tears voting for Kamala Harris. I have been able to vote for a Black man and two women in my life. I will celebrate these wins, even if we are facing the darkest of timelines.

  42. 42.

    KatKapCC

    @different-church-lady: Yeah, their “economic anxiety” has always come down to “people I hate are getting something I don’t think they deserve” or whatever. It’s not gas and grocery prices they’re pissed about, it’s a brown person getting a few measly bucks in some kind of government assistance.

  43. 43.

    RaflW

    Months ago we booked a week on Kauai for December. I’ve been trying to decide by Sunday (refund deadline) if we should cancel. Maybe we ‘drink the champagne’ now anyway.

    My sense has been that we won’t really enjoy it. So much sh*t will be hanging over our heads. But Hawaii also voted like 61% for MVP, so maybe it should get our thanks with our visiting dollars.

  44. 44.

    Chris Johnson

    @rikyrah: Woof. I’m glad I’ve had decades to learn how to pass better, and to become self-supporting even if it’s by a fairly thin margin.

    I remain convinced that a bunch of these people worked incredibly hard NOT to even look at reality, so they could keep faith with the pretend guy in their heads they thought they were supporting.

    FAFO can happen really, really quick and these people are not used to even imagining the leopards can eat THEIR faces. They have been very insulated, and they’ll quickly be very NOT.

    The new regime should be working hard to not break kayfabe or bust the bubble of their voterbase, and I do not think they are smart/wise enough to do that. I guess they think their people are unshakeably faithful and will follow them everywhere.

    As much as some people here insist that’s true, I have my doubts.

  46. 46.

    KatKapCC

    @RaflW: I say go for it. A few days of peace and beauty will be good for you. Kauai was my favorite part of Hawaii when I visited many years ago. Give yourselves that break from the hell of reality.

  48. 48.

    Caustictity.acerbity

    @rikyrah: in the same vein, a friend sent me this:

    Results have already started. This is from an american woman today: My husband works for a small manufacturing company and here in southwestern PA that means most employees are Trump voters. When the president of the company sat them down today to tell them their annual Christmas bonus would not come this year because they now need to purchase at least a years worth of products prior to January 21st due to the proposed tariffs, they did not understand. My husband said that their president had to explain what a tariff is and how it will directly hurt their company. They all thought the foreign company paid the tariff. This is the level of ignorance voting against their own interests here r PA, where we failed American women and children last night

  49. 49.

    Phylllis

    @rikyrah: I think it’s the first thing they do. They’ve been itching to convert the Title programs to block grant for ages. Project 2025 calls for eliminating the federal Title funding over a ten-year period. Even better off districts (ex. Greenville, Charleston, Horry in SC) rely on millions of Title I & IDEA funds due to enduring pockets of poverty and increasing #’s of kids identified with Autism and other learning disabilities. My former district will be financially cratered at the loss.

  50. 50.

    trollhattan

    @RaflW: Do it.

    From my limited trips there, any place not named Honolulu is chill, and it’s not Christmas peak tourist season [unless by December you mean Xmas-new year] so, why not?

  51. 51.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Chris Johnson: ​
     

    The new regime should be working hard to not break kayfabe or bust the bubble of their voterbase, and I do not think they are smart/wise enough to do that. I guess they think their people are unshakeably faithful and will follow them everywhere.

    What’s it matter, now? There won’t be another vote for four years, and they’ll have plenty of time to rig that one. Not only do elected Republicans not give a damn about us, they don’t give a damn about their own supporters either.

  52. 52.

    catclub

    @Hildebrand: The apathetic or purity-pony knaves who sat out this election for ‘reasons’

     

    Harris got about 68M votes while Biden got about 80M.  I think (charitably)  that the 12M or so is 90% apathetic, 10% awake purity pony. Amnesia about how bad 2020 was is impressive.  those extra 12M were angry about covid and Trump did not fix it.  They did not care about Biden.

  53. 53.

    stacib

    @Omnes Omnibus: LOL, we have had a full china cabinet for the entirety of my life, and the only times those dishes came out were to be washed and returned to the cabinet.  Not one single time in 65 years has anybody ever eaten off them.

  54. 54.

    catclub

    @trollhattan: My inner 7th grader suddenly wants them to do it!

     

    I want them to do it and  I want her to pardon every single Democratic office holder in the country,  like they did for Nixon ( anything past or future). Also Liz Cheney just for laughs.

  56. 56.

    Baud

    @Phylllis:

    They’ve been itching to convert the Title programs to block grant for ages

     
    They did that for welfare, and that’s how Brett Favre got to scam Mississippi.

  57. 57.

    EZSmirkzz

    On the bright side it’s 2 and a half months until Biden leaves office so you don’t need freak out. I’m gonna mow the lawn.

  58. 58.

    Expletive Deleted

    We had tickets for TMBG last night here in the UK, I went mostly out of inertia and not wanting to lose one more thing. It was weird, during the first set you could occasionally see when the Johns minds were wandering and thinking about the election.

    I was unexpectedly in tears during Particle Man of all songs. But eventually the music and the momentum of the crowd took over and it was good to be out there among people feeling something.

  60. 60.

    KatKapCC

    @EZSmirkzz: Um, yes, we do need to freak out because a lot of us will have to do some serious prep and planning for what’s about to come down.

  62. 62.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Baud: If you ever aren’t sure what to expect Republicans to do, just ask “what best promotes corruption and accrual of idle wealth?”

  63. 63.

    ewrunning

    I just checked and Cheeto Jebus’s popular vote count right now is 1,448,677 LOWER than his final 2020 tally. I can’t find an estimate of how many votes remain to be counted, but a large percentage of those have to mail in ballots from CA, OR and WA, so it seems possible that he won’t even get to his 2020 mark. Also his percentage is now down below 51 (50.9). So the idea that this is some tremendous popular mandate seems absurd. Also, as a Washingtonian (the State, not DC), I’m proud to say we are one of only two states where his margin (of defeat, in our state, or of victory) did NOT improve. The other is Utah. Go figure!

  65. 65.

    ewrunning

    @rikyrah: Not to mention what slashing Medicare and Social Security disability benefits is going to do to already limited services to adults with autism and other developmental disabilities.

  67. 67.

    ArchTeryx

    @KatKapCC: Yeah. I have to agree there. Now is the time to do any planning and prepping, BEFORE TCFG takes office. That’s when this country turns feral, and we better the hell be ready.

  70. 70.

    EZSmirkzz

    @KatKapCC: Oh the travails of a college degree. When I was a Boy Scout in the 1960s we had a motto; be prepared.
    You got 3 months so there is no point in giving aid and comfort to our political adversaries, knowing they won’t be coming for our guns and fishing rods. What was it Jefferson said?

    A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt…If the game runs sometime against us at home, we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake.

     

    We will get by, we will survive.

  72. 72.

    patrick II

    So far the vote count for Trump is 72,775,000 (rounded) and Kamala 68,000,000. In 2020 Trump had over 74 million and Biden had over 81 million. Trump.had over a million more votes in ’20 than he does this year and Kamala has about 13 million less than Biden did in 2020. Trump did not pick up votes but actually lost some — but the Democrats lost considerably more.

    That vote count surprises me. Where was everyone?

  75. 75.

    Peke Daddy

    “My candle burns at both ends,

    It shall not last the night.

    But oh my friends and oh my foes,

    It gives a lovely light.”

    Edna St. Vincent Millay

  77. 77.

    ewrunning

    @patrick II: Thinking along the same lines. See my comment at 63 above. However, I’ve poked around some more and found out around 40 percent of California votes have yet to be counted.

  78. 78.

    ArchTeryx

    @rikyrah: Oh, just wait for when the redcap militia show up with their own Aktion T4 instructions in their hands, with instructions to remove the “autistics” for euthanasia. Then they’re going to find out what a fascist dictator can and can’t do.

    They don’t have the first clue what’s coming. Neither does anyone else that hasn’t read Project 2025.

  79. 79.

    PsiFighter37

    @patrick II: It’s very clear to me – you had a lot of disaffected people in heavily Democratic areas that did not vote. There was also less reason to vote vs. 2020, when a lot of people were mailed ballots, making it much easier to vote (because so many were stuck at home).

    Speaking of NYC, the rightward shift IMO is clear – Eric Adams and the machine politicians here have done absolute squat for the people who live in areas other than Midtown and downtown Manhattan (like me). The lack of functional, good liberal governance is catching up to us, and it may get worse first before it gets better, because the DSA / SJW types are going to be squawking real loud for a while now, and there are still too many hippy-dippy white liberals who love that shit in the big city.

  81. 81.

    Baud

    Via reddit, perhaps an area of unity.

    Multiple efforts that supported giving parents public funds to spend on private or alternative schools fared poorly in the 2024 election.

     

    Voters rejected separate proposals in Colorado and Kentucky aiming to add language supporting school choice, an issue that has divided parents and school staffers across the nation for years, to their states’ constitutions.

     

    And voters in Nebraska chose to repeal a $10 million school voucher program passed by its state legislature earlier this year, which aimed to help private school families with state funding.

  83. 83.

    Archon

    @KatKapCC: That’s exactly who my mother-in-law is. She “apparently” voted for Harris and recognizes Trump as a scoundrel of the 1st order but what keeps her up at night politically is some poor person getting a dollar they didn’t deserve.

  84. 84.

    KatKapCC

    @EZSmirkzz: First off, I don’t give a shit what a slave-owning rapist had to say about anything.

    Second, I don’t know what you meant by that comment about a college degree. I have one, too, pal, so stop with whatever condescension you were aiming for.

    Third, maybe you are a toddler and you don’t understand time. Three months ain’t shit. Do you think January 20th will never arrive? If people have to start thinking about procuring repro health supplies, about shifting around investments, about retiring early, about moving, that has to start happening NOW. I am not giving aid and comfort to the other side by doing that. I am giving aid and comfort to MYSELF and my loved ones.

    Fourth, everyone really needs to stop with the “don’t worry, we’ll survive” shit because A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL NOT. I don’t know anything about you, but you sound extremely privileged. A lot of trans people will not survive. A lot of immigrants will not survive. A lot of disabled people will not survive. A lot of people who can get pregnant will not survive. I mean, on that last one alone, are you seriously not aware that women have ALREADY BEEN DYING because of abortion bans?

    Take your Little Mary Sunshine shit and shove it.

  85. 85.

    JPL

    @zhena gogolia:  My mother was raised in Arizona and was of the age that she had major problems with her teeth.   She was thrilled when Flouride was added to water and  mentioned to her  children often.

    I’m concerned about vaccines too.

  86. 86.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @Peke Daddy:

    One good poem deserves another:

    Razors pain you;
    Rivers are damp;
    Acids stain you;
    And drugs cause cramp.
    Guns aren’t lawful;
    Nooses give;
    Gas smells awful;
    You might as well live.

    Dorothy Parker

  87. 87.

    ArchTeryx

    @KatKapCC: Amen to that. If these monsters actually execute most of Project 2025, tens of millions of people will be murdered. It will make COVID look like a car accident. We’re going to quickly start resembling, not Nazi Germany, but Stalinist Russia.

    Hyperbole? Read for yourself.

  88. 88.

    Archon

    Down ballot doesn’t look quite like the catastrophe it did 36 hours ago. I recognize it’s a bit like a Japanese Admiral saying, “we lost all our aircraft carriers but at least our destroyers made it”, after the Battle of Midway, but it’s a bit of a morale boost at least.

  89. 89.

    JPL

    It’s going to be difficult for me to vote for a democrat that attends trump’s inauguration.   It’s past time that we started fighting back.   Step one say to hell with his mandate.

  91. 91.

    Baud

    @Archon:

    My optimistic hot take is that people took out their anxiety and stresses on Biden and Harris. Still terrible on multiple levels, but inherently a one-off.

  93. 93.

    Baud

    @JPL:

    It’s pretty clear that a lot of people are more liberal when it comes to referendums than when it comes to electing candidates.

  95. 95.

    Archon

    I still have friends telling me, “At least Trump will only get one term”. When I explained to them that Trump has ZERO incentive to leave office since it would mean he would be back in court for his past, present, and future crimes, they told me it’s constitutionally impossible for him to stay.

    Lack of imagination of accepting the era we now officially live in will be the death of Democracy.

  96. 96.

    JML

    @Archon: same sort of people that keep cheering for Brett Favre after he ripped off the poor to line his own pockets and get a fancy gym built for his daughter to play volleyball in. The cognitive dissonance is hard for me, but I’m told if I don’t try to understand these people I’ll never be able to convince them otherwise…

  99. 99.

    prostratedragon

    FDRLincoln@16: “They are knowingly, without excuse, choosing fascism.”
    And treason. Don’t forget that.

  101. 101.

    Steve LaBonne

    @KatKapCC: Thank you. Along with the usual Democratic circular firing squad, that kind of privileged smugness is one of the two worse than useless responses we will be seeing far too much of.

  104. 104.

    EZSmirkzz

    @KatKapCC:

    Oh I’m crushed!

    Second, I don’t know what you meant by that comment about a college degree. I have one, too, pal, so stop with whatever condescension you were aiming for.

    @KatKapCC:

    Yeah, I’ve been meaning to get one those. Stop assuming buddy.

    Third, maybe you are a toddler and you don’t understand time. Three months ain’t shit. Do you think January 20th will never arrive? If people have to start thinking about procuring repro health supplies, about shifting around investments, about retiring early, about moving, that has to start happening NOW. I am not giving aid and comfort to the other side by doing that. I am giving aid and comfort to MYSELF and my loved ones.

    Well I’m retired so I am already skating away on the thin ice of a new day, (Look it up). I’m also diabetic, and etc. Also too, the universe is unfolding as it should, and whether you can hear it or not, it is laughing at you behind your back.(Look that up too.)

    Fourth, everyone really needs to stop with the “don’t worry, we’ll survive” shit because A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL NOT. I don’t know anything about you, but you sound extremely privileged. A lot of trans people will not survive. A lot of immigrants will not survive. A lot of disabled people will not survive. A lot of people who can get pregnant will not survive. I mean, on that last one alone, are you seriously not aware that women have ALREADY BEEN DYING because of abortion bans?

    Take your Little Mary Sunshine shit and shove it.

    Tetchy, aren’t you?
    @KatKapCC:

     

    @KatKapCC:

  106. 106.

    Anyway

    Is Cheetolini going to make bank off Truth Social now that he won? That was always the purpose of it, right, to funnel big $$$ his way?

  107. 107.

    ewrunning

    @zhena gogolia: See my comment above. 40 percent of California votes have yet to be counted and likely there are significant numbers to be counted in OR and WA so the total vote count is going to be higher. Won’t to be enough to close the gap with the Biden 2020 vote Patrick cited, but I believe it will get smaller.

  110. 110.

    Glyph2112

    @patrick II: I was asking the same question, but now I am thinking due to the pandemic, more people participated due to mail in voting.  It was easy for even lazy people to vote.  Not to mention everyone was mad at the lockdowns and it motivated people to vote.  Plus, I said this the other day, Biden is competent and boring and probably should have had daily pressers where he bragged about everything to offset Trumps daily lies.  When things are going OK, people just don’t go out of the way to vote.

  112. 112.

    KatKapCC

    @EZSmirkzz: Okay, you can absolutely go fuck yourself. Are you enjoying this? Are you getting glee out of sneering at people who are reasonably terrified of what’s going to happen? Yeah, I’m fucking “tetchy”, you worthless sack of shit. I’m a queer Jewish woman, my partner is a disabled trans woman. I have lots of queer and trans friends, disabled friends, working-class friends, friends who are either immigrants, both documented and not, themselves, or who have family who are. Yes, we are all scared. Are you wanking off to that fear? Are you getting your kicks from watching people worry about what might happen to them and their loved ones? Why don’t you go to a Trump celebration rally, since that seems to be more your crowd. Fuck off into the sun.

  118. 118.

    Darkrose

    @FDRLincoln:

    The American people, the majority of the electorate, CHOSE THIS. They are knowingly, without excuse, choosing fascism.

    I hope they get what they want. My only concern now is trying to shield my family and vulnerable friends.

    This is where I’m at. My energy is limited, and I need to save it for those I care about.

  119. 119.

    rikyrah

    Patrick S. Tomlinson (@stealthygeek) posted at 7:25 AM on Thu, Nov 07, 2024:
    A distraught friend yesterday boiled it down perfectly:

    “If we won, we’d be celebrating how many of them would get healthcare, education, or student loans canceled. But they won, and they’re celebrating how many of us they get to kill.”

    Tells the whole story, doesn’t it?
    (https://x.com/stealthygeek/status/1854515605338018138?s=03)

  120. 120.

    Splitting Image

    @Anyway:

    Is Cheetolini going to make bank off Truth Social now that he won? That was always the purpose of it, right, to funnel big $$$ his way?

    Yup. Broke-ass loser is going to die a billionaire now because of the bribes coming in.

    Great work if you can get it.

  122. 122.

    Archon

    @Ksmiami: I will say I think it will still take some Reichstag fire event to get the ball really rolling on Fascism and I’m not sure the Republicans have the will or intelligence to pull it off.

    But again, everything is on the table now.

  123. 123.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @ewrunning:

    Won’t to be enough to close the gap with the Biden 2020 vote Patrick cited, but I believe it will get smaller.

    Maybe it’ll get her from her 17% reduction into Carter’s 13% reduction territory from his 1980 run.

    Won’t matter except for the history books.  The real thing about CA are the remaining House races.  CA might actually save this country if they push enough (D)s into the House so we capture it.

  125. 125.

    RevRick

    @oldgold: Epicurus, who has become associated with luxury and excess, one wrote a paean to a bowl of pot cheese. He would frown on the notion that you can enjoy certain things on special occasions. He would instead urge us to make every occasion special, savoring as much as you can of life now, because we are mortal.
    Find joy in simple things. Find joy in washing dishes. Find joy in applying deodorant. Infuse your life with joy, whenever and wherever you can. Because dying will eventually catch up to you.

  128. 128.

    Darkrose

    @trollhattan: Back in 2017, I went to a Kaiser class on healthy eating. It was awful: the instructor focused on telling us what we shouldn’t eat rather than try to be balanced, and some of her information was flat-out wrong. The thing I remember most, though, was the woman who was worried about how to handle an upcoming trip to Germany, and how to avoid unhealthy foods, and if it was okay to have a little treat once in a while.

    When I told my wife, she threw up her hands and said, “Life is short and Trump is president–eat the goddamn dumpling!”

  129. 129.

    Steve LaBonne

    @Darkrose: Bingo. Now I mainly want to be in community with my people (UUs) and figure out with them what more we can do together to help those who really need and deserve it. I’m so tired of a politics that’s about things like saving the Teamsters’ pension fund and getting kicked in the teeth as our thanks.

  130. 130.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Question re immunity. Trump has absolute immunity for prosecution even if he does something illegal as part of his core responsibilities. But the people around him don’t, right? So if he ordered the military to fire on peaceful demonstrators, presumably they could be charged (assuming that’s illegal). As a matter of fact, the military has an obligation not to follow illegal orders. And their interaction with Trump couldn’t be used as evidence anyway. Do I have that straight? I don’t know how that’s going to work

    ETA: IOW, immunity doesn’t make Trump’s actions legal. It makes him non-prosecutable.

  132. 132.

    EZSmirkzz

    @Steve LaBonne: I’ve been posting here since 2003.

    John also knows I’m one of the last bleeding knuckle liberals, one who once pointed out that John was a Republican with sense. I’m pretty good with water levels too.

  133. 133.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    We bought champagne on Monday.  I just threw on my sweatshirt from Tuesday that still had my “I voter sticker” on it.  Sigh.  Probably save the bubbly for when that orange turd dies.

  137. 137.

    JPL

    Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell tells reporters if he won’t leave if Donald Trump, as next president, asks him to quit.

    Because trump plans on tanking the economy, Powell will drop the rates anyway.   Gas prices will lower also, but for all the wrong reasons.

  138. 138.

    cmorenc

    @The Audacity of Krope:

    This election finally gave me the kick I needed to get completely out of corporate employment and I’m making serious arrangements to earn my way on my own.

    Hopefully you have more promising ideas than to hang out a shingle as a “Life Coach”.   :=)

  140. 140.

    Steve LaBonne

    @JPL: Our nest egg such as It is is invested in a Thrivent moderate risk fund that follows the good old 60/40 formula. In the short run we are making nice gains, but I think in January I will want to talk to our Thrivent rep about going more conservative.

  141. 141.

    PsiFighter37

    @Geminid: No thanks.

    Who we really needed in 2021 was Kathryn Garcia – a liberal-minded technocrat who will focus on getting shit done and not pleasing machine politicians and the far left.

  143. 143.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Caustictity.acerbity:

     When the president of the company sat them down today to tell them their annual Christmas bonus would not come this year because they now need to purchase at least a years worth of products prior to January 21st due to the proposed tariffs, they did not understand. My husband said that their president had to explain what a tariff is and how it will directly hurt their company. They all thought the foreign company paid the tariff.

    We tried to tell them, but they wouldn’t listen to the likes of us. Because Demon-rats lie about everything, you know.

  145. 145.

    mrmoshpotato

    @KatKapCC:

    Yeah, their “economic anxiety” has always come down to “people I hate are getting something I don’t think they deserve” or whatever. It’s not gas and grocery prices they’re pissed about, it’s a brown person getting a few measly bucks in some kind of government assistance. 

    Exactly.

  147. 147.

    JPL

    @Steve LaBonne: I’m 75 and my house is almost on an acre lot.   I have planned on waiting to sell until after the 16 year old dog dies.  As long as I am with him, he’ll adapt anywhere.   I plan on listing in the spring, before much damage is done.

  148. 148.

    Suzanne

    @KatKapCC:

    Yeah, their “economic anxiety” has always come down to “people I hate are getting something I don’t think they deserve” or whatever. It’s not gas and grocery prices they’re pissed about, it’s a brown person getting a few measly bucks in some kind of government assistance. 

    You’re underestimating another critical aspect, which is, “I can bench a lot but the nerd I wanted to beat up in high school makes more money than me.”

  150. 150.

    ewrunning

    I’m sure he’ll pardon Jsixers the first week if not the first day. Expect a big Rose Garden event with them and their families for the cameras. Remember he pardoned service members convicted of war crimes in his first term

  152. 152.

    Captain C

    @ewrunning:

    Roberts truly screwed the pooch with the immunity ruling

    He did this on purpose, so I think Roberts the dogfucker is now a fair nickname to go with Dred Scott Roberts.

    (note that I wouldn’t inflict him on any dogs if it were up to me, they deserve better)

  153. 153.

    RevRick

    @catclub: Our problem is with what Paul Campos, I believe, calls the Ariana Grande voter. What he meant is that like those of us who no longer listen to much pop music, we only know a smattering. We know she’s a pop singer. But name a song of hers? Pick her out of a group photo? Um, no.

    These voters are not at all as keyed into the political process as we are. They struggle to name the three branches of the federal government. They aren’t sure who their Representative is. They have Green Lantern notions of the power of the President. (Which now, thanks to the Supreme {sic} Court, may actually come about).
    They may be working two jobs. They don’t understand what’s at stake. They hear campaign ads, and decide it’s just a case of tit for tat.
    Early evidence suggests that they aren’t alarmed by the outcome, because nothing bad happened the last time Trump was in office. They discount COVID as an unfortunate bad thing. They don’t understand why our hair is on fire.

  158. 158.

    owlbrick

    Reminded of the scene in Casablanca in the Paris flashback at La Belle Aurore… “Henri wants up to finish this bottle and then three more.  Says he’ll water his garden with Champagne before he’ll let the Germans drink it.”

  159. 159.

    RevRick

    @Suzanne: The existence of your 401K probably protects you! It signifies to them that you are one of the right people. It allows you to fly under the radar.

  160. 160.

    artem1s

    @Baud: ​

    Racist text messages spam Black Americans in Ohio, across the nation

    Just a joke amiright? liberals have no sense of humor. /s

    @Baud: That’s deplorable.

    don’t call them deplorable, their feelings will get hurt

  161. 161.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Suzanne: Short answer: no.

    IIRC, you’re not that old (for this crowd.) That means you have plenty of time, and long-term holding is *always* optimal. Plus, you’d face both tax and early-withdrawal penalties.

    Note: I am not your fiduciary and this is not financial advice.

  162. 162.

    Suzanne

    @Steve LaBonne:

    Now I mainly want to be in community with my people (UUs) and figure out with them what more we can do together to help those who really need and deserve it. I’m so tired of a politics that’s about things like saving the Teamsters’ pension fund and getting kicked in the teeth as our thanks. 

    Thank you. The labor movement is not a good coalition partner.

    I am also concentrating my assets on my family and friends.

  163. 163.

    Suzanne

    @Gin & Tonic: I’m worried if the market takes a huge dump and falls relative to other large currencies that it’ll be wiped out.

    Man, this is my last year in the 30-44 demographic!

  164. 164.

    Geminid

    @PsiFighter37: Well, I wasn’t trying to give her to you, just looking for your thoughts. St least you know about Senator Ramos; the first City resident I asked had not heard of her, which is not surprising considering its a big city and the campaign is just starting.

    But I am a little surprised you mentioned  pleasing the far left as a disqualifier. I first heard of Ramos from Tom Watson, and Watson was all-in on George Latimer versus Jamaal Bowman in the 16th CD primary.

    I also thought Kathy Garcia would have have been a good Mayor. Will she run again?

  167. 167.

    Darkrose

    @artem1s: We saw this in 2016, with elementary and high school students telling Latino students Trump was going to deport them.

    People don’t learn.

  168. 168.

    West of the Cascades

    @clay: Yes, indeed! After the second song Michael Stipe said “we’re just going to let the music talk” and by the end of the show I knew I had to follow through with all the feelings that were pulling me towards something better for my soul.

  169. 169.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    I’m starting to feel guilty about being in a somewhat sane nation in the EU and thus having a layer of insulation from what’s about to go down. Especially because of all my friends and loved ones who don’t have an ocean and a level of governmental sanity to protect them.

  170. 170.

    West of the Cascades

    @The Audacity of Krope: It went really well. I left NYC and moved to Portland, Oregon, switched over from pollution control law (Clean Air Act, Superfund) to public lands and species protection (Endangered Species Act, National Environmental Policy Act, National Forest Management Act) and have had a 19-year run as a public interest environmental litigator. I like to say that for (nearly) the last two decades I have been suing the federal government for a living, and managed to make it all work financially. I wish you the best as you make the jump!!

  171. 171.

    gene108

    @Caustictity.acerbity:

    My husband works for a small manufacturing company and here in southwestern PA that means most employees are Trump voters. When the president of the company sat them down today to tell them their annual Christmas bonus would not come this year because they now need to purchase at least a years worth of products prior to January 21st due to the proposed tariffs, they did not understand. My husband said that their president had to explain what a tariff is and how it will directly hurt their company. They all thought the foreign company paid the tariff.

    If they are too lazy to go on Google or Bing and “do their own research” they deserve what’s coming.

    The big reason I have no sympathy for Trump voters is there are a whole bunch of red flags that show he isn’t a good guy.

    If being convicted on 34 felony counts, leading an insurrection to over throw the government, being found liable for sexual assault, defrauding lenders, hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein for years, admitting to walking through the dressing room of Miss Teen USA, when girls were changing, etc. did not dampen their support for Trump, they get whatever harm comes there way.

  172. 172.

    Darkrose

    @Suzanne:Thank you. The labor movement is not a good coalition partner.

    This is a broad and incorrect generalization. The UAW leadership wholeheartedly endorsed Harris and Shawn Fain spoke in primetime at the DNC. The SEIU and AFT have been the backbone of Democratic policies for years; I’m an AFT member and our local organized for Harris/Walz. Even within the Teamsters, while the national org refused to endorse, local and other caucuses supported Harris.

  173. 173.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Suzanne: Depending on who the investment manager is and how long you need to change an allocation, you could probably shift it all to cash (T-bills, etc.) fairly soon. This is still statistically a bad idea, when you have 20 years left, but for heaven’s sake, don’t cash it out, you’ll get killed in taxes and fees and will never recover. The data on that are clear.

    My dear wife was making similar noises in 2016 when he won the first time. I let everything ride and that’s proven to be for the best.

  174. 174.

    Darkrose

    I know a lot of folks here dislike Newsom, and I haven’t always been thrilled with him, but I appreciate this:

    Governor Gavin Newsom today issued a proclamation convening a special session of the California Legislature to safeguard California values and fundamental rights in the face of an incoming Trump administration. The special session will focus on bolstering California legal resources to protect civil rights, reproductive freedom, climate action, and immigrant families. More at https://www.gov.ca.gov/2024/11/07/special-session-ca-values/

  177. 177.

    KatKapCC

    @Darkrose: Yep. AG Bonta also sent out an email being very clear that he is already preparing to do whatever he can to protect us. I appreciate living under a decent government now more than ever.

  178. 178.

    Darkrose

    @Suzanne: I know, especially some specific unions. Again, though, the SEIU (Service Employees International Union) and the AFT (American Federation of Teachers) are part of the labor movement and have always been part of the Democratic coalition. Writing off those people is not where we need to be going.

  179. 179.

    Steve LaBonne

    @Darkrose: Absolutely. I am very much for the labor movement but Democrats have to focus on the unions with which they have a reciprocal relationship.

  180. 180.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Darkrose:

    Writing off those people is not where we need to be going.

    Exactly.  Saying that the labor movement isn’t a good coalition partner is the height of unserious thinking.

    @Steve LaBonne:
    This is an important nuance to consider. For example, police unions that are thoroughly right-wing, there’s no room for their sorry asses in our tent.  And anybody suggesting we break ties with something like teachers unions (local and nationally) because of some generic visceral dislike of unions needs to be tossed from the tent.

  183. 183.

    Suzanne

    @Darkrose: Then their members need to show up reliably. If the leadership can’t herd the cats, why would we prioritize their issues?

    This one just fucken kills me. Biden has been the most pro-labor president that could have dreamed for, and it seems that a big chunk of union members voted for TFG?!?!

  184. 184.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @artem1s: I see what you did there.

    @Suzanne: Then their members need to show up reliably. If the leadership can’t herd the cats, why would we prioritize their issues?

    Because it’s the right thing to do.

  185. 185.

    Steve LaBonne

    @schrodingers_cat: Macron is a political dead man walking and everybody in France can’t wait to get rid of him. Modi decidedly underperformed expectations and polls. The reality, whether you like to believe it or not, is that Harris ran somewhat ahead of where Biden would have (supported by polls that turned out to be more accurate than we wanted to believe) but couldn’t shake the fact that she was still the candidate of the incumbent party.

  186. 186.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @The Audacity of Krope:

    Because it’s the right thing to do.

    Exactly.  We have a number of union people here who have recounted over the years how hard they’ve fought for Democratic candidates.  We just saw Denver vote to allow city employees the right to organize, over the pushback from pale-blue transplants who grew up in households that preached “unions = bad”.  Denver voters saw the efficacy of the ability to organize and thankfully, voted appropriately.

    Looking at everything thru nothing but a transactional lens is myopic and definitely at odds with a lot of the broader, meta issues we Democrats have pushed for decades.

  187. 187.

    Darkrose

    @Suzanne: The members of the unions I just mentioned DO show up reliably. SEIU folks show up even though, as folks in the service industry, they often have to struggle with scheduling issues. Same with the UFW (United Farm Workers). You seem to be willing to throw all labor organizations under the bus because you’re upset with the Teamsters, police, and firefighters. I agree that the cop unions aren’t part of my coalition, but be absolutely cannot afford to lash out at the people who are, in fact, on our side.

    I am a union member; my local chapter is an American Federation of Teachers affiliate. We organized around the election with calls and postcards and getting out the vote because we all know what’s at stake.

  188. 188.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: Looking at everything thru nothing but a transactional lens is myopic and definitely at odds with a lot of the broader, meta issues we Democrats have pushed for decades.

    Let’s just say “Trumpian.”

  191. 191.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Steve LaBonne: The reality, whether you like to believe it or not, is that Harris ran somewhat ahead of where Biden would have

    We can’t truly know that, first of all. Secondly, it was a truly morally reprehensible thing to do regardless of whether the tactical considerations paid off or not.

    Democrats handicapped Kamala who was likely planning for a less hasty 2028 run. Now that likely isn’t even an option for her. And they told millions of voters their votes didn’t matter. A bunch of people only learned Tuesday that Joe Biden dropped out.

  192. 192.

    Suzanne

    @Darkrose: I will note that Mr. Suzanne is a public educator and also a union member.

    I have no interest in “chucking anybody out”. Not that we even could. I do believe, though, that if the solidarity isn’t there, then we should not expend limited political capital forwarding their interests.  Biden did a hell of a lot for union workers, TFG has promised to break unions…. and it seems that these organizations are not organized enough to be reliable partners.

    The social contract has been broken, in my view, in a pretty significant way.

    ETA: I will note that I type this from Pennsylvania, where construction trade unions are a huge force, and their members appear to have broken for Trump bigtime.

  193. 193.

    Steve LaBonne

    @The Audacity of Krope: “Nothing but” is doing a lot of work. There has to be some transactional component in politics because continuing to spend political capital on people who won’t support you is a good way to lose.

  194. 194.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Steve LaBonne: I’m good with right vs. wrong being the guiding light.

    Nearest I can tell, you’re pushing a line that made the Republicans into the monsters they are; more interested in winning than anything else. I have no patience for this right now and any opinions I see if yours going forward will be colored by this perception.

  197. 197.

    Suzanne

    @The Audacity of Krope: We can and should do the right thing for the right reasons, as we have done and FSM willing will do again. But, at the end of the day, winners make policy and losers go home. There is an inherently transactional nature to holding a coalition together. That failed to happen.

  198. 198.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @KatKapCC: you have no way to know how the election would’ve gone with Biden still on the ticket.

    And if this is all you care about, you’re a monster.

    @Suzanne: at the end of the day, winners make policy and losers go home. There is an inherently transactional nature to holding a coalition together. That failed to happen.

    This precise attitude makes Democrats, not unions, look like bad allies. There’s no principle there. No wonder 12 million people didn’t bother to show.

  200. 200.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @The Audacity of Krope:

    This precise attitude makes Democrats, not unions, look like bad allies. There’s no principle there. No wonder 12 million people didn’t bother to show.

    Yup.  It’s another reason why the base of the Democratic Party, black women, look at other “coalition partners” that freak out at shit and then look at everything purely transactionally, with a lot of contempt.

  201. 201.

    Suzanne

    @The Audacity of Krope: LGBTQ people, and disabled people, and undocumented people, and women, and countless others are all in mortal danger because a lot of people decided to underbus them in hopes of saving a buck on eggs.

    We needed to hang together and we didn’t. So, now that we have much, much less ability to affect change, we’ll have to be more limited with how we spend that energy.

  203. 203.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Steve LaBonne: I read it. My response derives from the post I directly linked to, but also your Biden posts elsewhere on this thread. Abandoning principle in the face of adversity just results in everyone losing.

  204. 204.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Suzanne: We needed to hang together and we didn’t. So, now that we have much, much less ability to affect change, we’ll have to be more limited with how we spend that energy.

    Read the bolded part again. Then read the rest. Really think about it.

  205. 205.

    RevRick

    @The Audacity of Krope: I’m sorry, but this assertion is bullshit. The outcome of this election was decided by three things:

    1). Inflation caused by COVID, for which the Biden administration gotten blamed;

    2). 75% saying the country is on the wrong track (see point1);

    3). Ariana Grande voters who aren’t the least keyed into politics and decided that the outcome didn’t matter.

    There is nothing Democrats did or failed to do that overcame those three factors. We ran into sheer bad luck. Period. Shitty things happen for little reason at all.

  206. 206.

    Steve LaBonne

    @The Audacity of Krope: Nobody should be thrown under the bus. But a political party does not have unlimited political capital when it takes power, and some degree of priority must be given to expending it where it will generate support in return. I would be delighted if we lived in a perfect world in which that wouldn’t have to be a consideration, but we don’t.

  207. 207.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @RevRick: There is nothing Democrats did or failed to do that overcame those three factors.

    Standing up for ourselves and the decisions we made would have been a HUGE start. And, even if doing the right thing led to the same bad outcome, we’d at least have done the right thing.

    I’m honestly not certain at this point that I even consider Democrats a viable choice for positive social change anymore. Cynical pols and armchair tacticians have obliterated my view of the party.

  209. 209.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Suzanne: You mean, who betrayed the coalition?

    Adam Schiff. Barack Obama. Nancy Pelosi. Elizabeth Warren. Going smaller; there’s you, Kay, Quinerly, Steve LaBonne…

  210. 210.

    suzanne

    @The Audacity of Krope: I voted for Harris. And donated. And I vote for Dems in every election. I show up.

    Which is more than I can say for the union guys who voted for Trump, after Biden saved their paychecks.

  212. 212.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @suzanne: You’re literally, actively, enthusiastically advocating to betray the coalition on this thread here, right now. You’re doing it under the auspices of hunting traitors, but I see you.

  213. 213.

    gene108

    @Suzanne:

    Biden did a hell of a lot for union workers, TFG has promised to break unions…. and it seems that these organizations are not organized enough to be reliable partners.

    The social contract has been broken, in my view, in a pretty significant way.

    ETA: I will note that I type this from Pennsylvania, where construction trade unions are a huge force, and their members appear to have broken for Trump bigtime.

    I’m in a bad mood.

    I want everyone who voted for Trump and thinks Trump and company “wouldn’t do that” to fucking burn. I’m going to get fucked in the process. I don’t care.

    Not enough Republican voters get hurt badly enough from Republican policies to really care what Republicans are selling.

    I want that to change.

    I doubt they’ll stop voting for Republicans. I just want them to suffer, along with other minority groups and vulnerable people that will get harmed.

    I am utterly out of fucks to give about Trump voters. They need to feel all the pain that will be inflicted on others.

  214. 214.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @gene108: I am utterly out of fucks to give about Trump voters. They need to feel all the pain that will be inflicted on others.

    Me too. The time for grace has passed, probably should have been sooner.

  216. 216.

    Ksmiami

    @The Audacity of Krope:  we can’t expend political capital on people who don’t show up and vote for us. Focus on building up working class women- the union men are all in for Trump like they were for Reagan. Enough.

  217. 217.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Ksmiami: we can’t expend political capital on people who don’t show up and vote for us.

    People of every conceivable group and description show up and vote for us. If we only appeal to groups that are 100 percent behind us, that’s no one…at all.

  220. 220.

    TBone

    I use my grandmother’s gold-rimmed Royal Doulton china (service for 12) every single day, and have done so since my mother gave it to me over 30 years ago.  Just for this exact reason.

  221. 221.

    suzanne

    @The Audacity of Krope:

    You’re literally, actively, enthusiastically advocating to betray the coalition on this thread here, right now. You’re doing it under the auspices of hunting traitors, but I see you. 

    No. I’m saying that we need to expect that they are not good coalition partners to plan around — their members are unreliable. We can and should do the right things for people and pursue good governance.

    But governing coalitions simply do not work without compromising and solidarity. That means one group’s specific interests might not get forwarded right away. Everyone kind of has to take their turn.

    But union guys who voted for Trump are the ones who broke that coalition. I didn’t. So, you know, why should I expend an ounce of effort on their behalf? There’s other, more urgent priorities.

  222. 222.

    Darkrose

    @Suzanne: Based on that data, 19% of voters said they or a family member was in a union. Of those, 53% voted Democrat. Race, gender, and religious affiliation were far more important; I’m not quite sure why you’re focusing on union membership.

    ETA: From where I’m sitting, the 19% of union members are less of a problem than the 71% of white people who consider themselves Republicans.

  223. 223.

    Suzanne

    @Darkrose: I’ve focused on other issues in other threads. I am especially pissed ATM about union guys abandoning Bob Casey and voting for McCormick, and that race was called today.

    Pennsylvanians absolutely shit the bed.

  224. 224.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Suzanne:

    At least Michigan and Wisconsin reelected and elected their statewide Dems.

    I’m mad that a used car salesman who fucked over his employees beat Sherrod Brown

  225. 225.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @RevRick: im puzzled by folks who didn’t know Harris was running, not Biden. Is the farther right skewed media that bad, to not even include a few basic facts now and then?

    course I’m puzzled that the history of hitler and camps, genocide and wwll is not clear in these peoples minds. And the three branches of govt! Then again, orange whozit might not know th3m either, except as something to steam role.

  226. 226.

    Gloria DryGarden

    Im hearing an argument, on the verge of attacks between a few here. It’s getting into the fine grain, where hairs are split, and experienced activists know more nuances than I’ve ever understood.
    would anyone like to explain it to me as if I were in kindergarten. I dont require this, but I invite you. Simple, real simple. What are the two or more sides in this argument about traitors, and coalition, and transactional?

    you can skip over the should a coulda woulda, the if  of Biden vs Harris pros and cons. We can’t know, and it’s later now. And I read all the threads back and forth in the post debate discussions. Days of it, bickering jackals.
    i only wish to understand the fight happening, because I’m thinking about the way forward, the options. Fighting between us, of course, isn’t my preferred side tangent. What are the useful parts, to apply going forward? I’m happy to understand the varied pov here, but I can’t quite parse it out through the form of calling each other wrong.
    don’t want to derail a thread, only if someone has bandwidth to spoon it to me simple. I’m learning.

  228. 228.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Darkrose:

    ETA: From where I’m sitting, the 19% of union members are less of a problem than the 71% of white people who consider themselves Republicans.

    Precisely.

  229. 229.

    Suzanne

    @Darkrose:

    From where I’m sitting, the 19% of union members are less of a problem than the 71% of white people who consider themselves Republicans.

    I bet they’re the same people.
    I have had plenty of shit to say about white dudebros. Pretty much every day that ends in -y.

  230. 230.

    Barry

    @JPL: “Not with the current congress, but he could be impeached.”

     

    That would take a miracle, and God Himself could no secure an impeachment.

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