Being an asshole won’t change the outcome of the election. Being nice won’t either, but there is no point doubling down on misery. Take care of your friends and family, distance yourself from those who seek to harm you and yours, prepare for the worst, but try to be kind to others for your own mental sake and theirs. That includes here in cyberspace as well as in the real world.
And try to remember that people process grief in different ways. If someone is being a dick in the comments, ignore them. If it is egregious, we’ll clean it up. But odds are it’s just someone going through their own angst and fears and misery- sometimes we lash out at even the ones we love.
There is a clearly defined enemy out there- focus on them.
And for the record, this website will not be spending thousands of hours processing poll results to try to determine which minority didn’t vote for Harris in sufficient percentages to determine who “cost us” the election. We lost the election because tens of millions of white Americans did what they always do, which is go into the booth and vote for their tribe. The end.
I’ve seen a video of a young Latino talking about how he knows several Latinos who voted for Trump who have undocumented relatives, so to give them a dose of their medicine, they are going to report them to ice:
🔥💙🔥 pic.twitter.com/xf9n4nUiE8
— jorgiee (@jorgie_jorgito) November 7, 2024
I don’t know if you need to be told this, but just in case you do, DO NOT FUCKING DO THIS. DO NOT FUCKING REPORT ANYONE TO ICE. I hope Adam’s post last night made things clear for you all what we are up against, but if they did not, let me explain this to you in the simplest of terms.
DO NOT HELP NAZIS EVER.
Turning in someone to ICE even if you think they deserve it makes you a fucking collaborator. Would you have turned in a Jewish person in WW2 because you suspect one of their relatives may have voted for Hitler? No. Again, for the slow learners:
DO NOT HELP NAZIS EVER.
Second, were I a Nazi, this is exactly the kind of video I would make to get the opposition to turn on each other to make my job easier. Don’t be stupid. Anything you view or hear, do not take it for granted. Think to yourself- “Who will benefit from this action?”
You need to mentally put yourself on a war footing. The only thing you say to authorities is effectively “I don’t know nothing about nothing.” That is it. If you interact with the police or ICE or the coming gangs of brownshirts, you shut the fuck up, and borrowing phrase “I don’t know nothing about nothing” from the black community should be part of your daily vocabulary. It’s a powerful six words, because not only does it shut down their attempts to get information about what they are specifically asking you, it says you don’t know anything about anything else. Say it to yourself over and over- “I don’t know nothing about nothing.”
Here is a list of things you are ok saying to the authorities:
“Am I under arrest?”
“Am I free to go?”
“I want a lawyer.”
“Do you have a warrant?”
“I do not consent to any searches.”
That is it. The end. You offer no information. You offer no defense. You do not act aggressively. You say nothing. You know nothing about nothing. You don’t answer any questions about where you were going or what you were doing. You give them nothing. Nazis are gonna nazi, and you don’t give them a fucking shred of help.
They have an enormously difficult task ahead of them- the logistics of their goal of locking up and deporting millions of undesirables is a massive task both in terms of manpower and logistics, so you give them nothing. They are going to need hundreds of thousands of people to do what they want, and they will not be the best and the brightest this nation has to offer.
Bogging them down and leaving them drowning in paperwork and giving them NOTHING to work with is our best and safest collective defense, and even with the courts on their side, there will be good folks bogging them down in the system with challenges and appeals and everything else. Slowing them down to a crawl and giving them nothing is an extremely effective tool of collective action and it is safe for you to engage in. Especially if you are white.
Again:
“Am I under arrest?”
“Am I free to go?”
“I want a lawyer.”
“Do you have a warrant?”
“I do not consent to any searches.”
Do I need to make balloon juice stickers that say “I don’t know nothing about nothing?” Because I will. That should be your motto in these times.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
I can circular firing squad with the best of them on policy and what it means to be a Democrat and do so here frequently.
But as I said in another thread below, we all probably agree that America’s Incredible Whiteness of Being remains the salient shit-point in our political culture.
Elizabelle
Thank you John.
Watch out for content, and commenters, who aim to get us to turn on each other. The end.
cain
Well said.
That was morally reprehensible payback.
I would never ever do that kind of shit.
We will be able to get passed this grim period..but damn it’s going to be hard.
YY_Sima Qian
Thank you John Cole!
Omnes Omnibus
A slightly edited copy and paste from a thread below: Whatever any demographic did in general, the people here understood the assignment. At the same time, were I am member of a vulnerable group, I would be looking askance at any white person I didn’t know well, and probably most of those that I did.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks. Just being told to shut up and listen and go along to get along. is not helpful to someone with a target on their back
I am still processing this blow and figuring out what to do. Figuring out how safe it is for my MIL to venture out by herself on a walk. Figuring out whether I can make an international trip and still come back to my home this January. And many such things.
The last thing I need is admonishments from FPers of BJ of what I should do to process the results of this election. How about you listen instead of talking at me.
zhena gogolia
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: To give Kundera his due, the first word should be “unbearable.” The unbearable whiteness of being also works better in this context.
David Anderson
One of the things that we will need to be very good at is learning how to not see things, not hear things and to be very explicit with ourselves about how goddamn fuzzy our memory is.
There will be questions that I am very likely to have an excessively strong prior but as long as I don’t ask a personal question to someone, I can honestly say that I don’t know for sure.
Steve LaBonne
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Bro-ness also too.
Suzanne
@David Anderson:
Damn skippy. MYOB, lay low.
Tim C.
“DO NOT HELP NAZIS EVER”
Can that be a rotating tag? Might be a button I should wear.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@zhena gogolia:
Agreed. Waited too long to edit it. I use that analogy on twitter a lot albeit in a different context.
WereBear
When psychopaths are ascendant, be the Gray Rock.
Hunter Gathers
To anyone working in Special Education or has a child with special needs:
Save up as much money as you can.
Stack. That. Paper.
Because the entire field died Tuesday night.
Next semester will be the last before a 30% across the board cut to all those services.
There is no way that state and local governments will be able to make up that gap.
And with no Department of Education to enforce the law, well, I think you can do the math.
Educators voted for this.
My peers voted to destroy their own field.
We are going to be told that the disabled are a burden and need to go back into the institutions.
TBone
I fucking love this place.
Starfish
When there were various forms set up to report people for being trans, I am pretty sure that Gen Z’s approach was to stuff forms with nonsense data to make it meaningless so I 100% support everyone reporting one Speedy Gonzales to ICE.
WereBear
@Hunter Gathers:
We are going to be told that the disabled are a burden
Of course. They didn’t write their own playbook. They are copying.
Kathleen
I know it’s WaPo and Dana Milbank has not been one of my favorite columnists but this column (gift link) helped me. Plus there is a beautiful picture of MVP and Doug which caused me to finally shed my first tears. Plus he makes some salient points.
https://wapo.st/48D2eNL
ETA Oh, and thank you John for your post.
Omnes Omnibus
Even with a lawyer present, be careful to only answer the question asked. The answer to the question “Do you know the way to San Jose?” is one word, either yes or no. This is actually very hard for people to do it.
TBone
My college radio station is leaving NO DOUBT how they feel about things today.
It is not downtrodden.
TBone
MUM
FDRLincoln
i just found out that a person I thought was a friend, a person I had great professional respect for, an educated and accomplished woman in her field, who was previously a liberal, voted for Trump.
Why?
“He will make the economy better.”
I’m about to throw up.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Should I contact my reps? I know the ones in MA legislature personally.
Rose Judson
@Hunter Gathers: This summer I was beginning to form plans to leave the UK and move to Philly in ’27 or ’28, because The Child would be 19 then, and she wants to live in America when she’s a grownup. I also want to be near my parents as they age so my sister doesn’t have to handle case-managing any care they might need by herself.
That’s now off the table for all kinds of reasons. But a key one is that The Child is a person with autism, and any support she might have received from a community college will be long gone by then. It’s devastating. So much potential left to wither on the vine.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@WereBear: And the hell of it is, the 20th-century Nazis copied the playbook from us.
Kathleen
@schrodingers_cat: I support you SC!
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: I am not sure what you mean?
Steve LaBonne
I hate to be a broken record but liberal churches are going to be very important centers of resistance and organization. (The UU congregation I belonged to during Trumpreich I had an immigrant family in sanctuary. They ultimately won their asylum case). These churches are also important for self-care- my UU community will help me avoid retreating into cynicism.
Parfigliano
If the hellscape you envision truly arrives those 6 OK things to say won’t mean shit to a real Nazi regime.
Ukai
I was at the orchestra last night, and I couldn’t help but thinking how many people would not be there (including the musicians themselves) if Shitface Stephen Miller’s de-naturalization program went into effect.
schrodingers_cat
@Kathleen: Thanks that means a lot.
Kathleen
@WereBear: I think that is very helpful suggestion. I’m always reluctant to feed those types of energy cycles.
zhena gogolia
@Parfigliano: Sorry, but that was my first reaction.
TBone
@Steve LaBonne: joining up this weekend or next. Also going to see our trans librarian to see what kinds of groups are on offer there as well.
rk
@schrodingers_cat:
It’s already started. My son was mocked by a co worker. This man pretended to be an Indian IT worker and imitated an Indian accent. My son is brown, was born here, and has an american accent.
At my work, a white woman came wearing a red T-shirts two days in a row with the American flag and words like “freedom over fear” . The audacity of this woman to tell a black coworker that she voted Trump because of gun rights is amazing! And to do this in a place where majority is black.
She was reported to compliance by someone. Have no idea what will happen to her.
But if I know of two such incidents. Then it’s happening everywhere.
Steve LaBonne
@TBone: Excellent. Good luck.
Omnes Omnibus
@Parfigliano: Are you suggesting that it is bad advice? Do you have different suggestion?
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: As a lawyer do you think it a good idea to just talk to them and ask them what they will do to protect naturalized citizens like myself against whatever the administration is planning to do. Just to let them know that I exist.
I am also involved in several town level orgs and local Dem party.
Whereaway
Thanks John.
I appreciate that you are putting very useful information out here. And your underlying compassion shows through.
I think resistance will evolve – legal at first, and as long as the rule of law still exists, but we don’t need to go quietly.
Steve LaBonne
@rk: I have never been more grateful to be retired. Most of my coworkers were intolerable after 2016.
Mr. Bemused Senior
Thank you, John.
I can’t bear to read all the threads right now. I’ll be back soon. Love to all my fellow Jackals.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: If they haven’t already started thinking about that, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to put the thought in their heads.
schrodingers_cat
@rk: I am sorry that you have to go through that.
Kathleen
@schrodingers_cat: Heart emoji if I could figure out emojis from a keyboard.
dlwchico
If you use an iphone and usually have it set to unlock with facial ID you can force it to lock and require your passcode by:
To force a passcode on an iPhone, you can press and hold the power button and either volume button for about two seconds. You can also quickly press the side button five times.
Once you’ve hard-locked your iPhone, you’ll need to enter the passcode to unlock it again. You won’t be able to use Face ID or Touch ID until you’ve entered the passcode
TBone
I joined the ACLU back during Dubya. They required my social security number back then (I made some kind of formal request on an application there to get attention).
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Healey gave an interview which said that MA will hold the line. And she did just that as the AG of the Commonwealth during the first 4 years of T.
vulgarian
“I don’t know nothing about nothing?”
A little too close to the Know Nothings for me, but I may scribble “I HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT” on the pocket memopad jic
Phylllis
@Hunter Gathers: School districts will not be able to absorb the federal cuts that are coming. It was hard enough during sequestration when we dealt with 10% cuts. Poor and/or disabled kids and families will bear the brunt of this, as they always do.
TBone
@Phylllis: thank you for giving me a talking point to take to my local library!
John Cole
@Parfigliano: A key to making it through this alive is to use the easiest and safest and most of effective forms of resistance until they no longer work and other measures need to be pursued and adapting to the changing environment and engaging in new measures when needed.
Phylllis
In this neck of the woods, it’s “I ain’t got a clue.” coupled with a shrug. It helps to say it in a Southern accent, because folks automatically equate it with stupid.
rk
@schrodingers_cat:
I don’t think they can deport naturalized citizens unless the person has lied in someway on their immigration form.
Talk is cheap, and these guys are all wind-bags. I’m not denying they’re evil and will try their level best to implement their racist ideas. But the logistics of implementing mass deportations of both illegal and legal immigrants is a nightmare. I mean it will become a nightmare for them. They will have to spend the rest of their lives in court fighting the cases that will come their way.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
Family friend’s workplace has a bar across the street had a TFG winning party on Wednesday. The bar’s customers are mostly older probably social security or close to social security age white folks. She said she really wants to go there in a year and ask them how their economic anxiety is. I told her she may not find them there next year if they can’t afford the drinks.
VincentN
@Parfigliano: Ok, but you still shouldn’t help them. And since this regime can’t happen overnight everywhere all at once these phrases are still useful until that point.
Suzanne
@FDRLincoln: Have you seen the data about political alignment by occupation? It’s so interesting. There’s various infographics out there. Here’s one from before the election. I wonder if it shifted dramatically.
Betty Cracker
@WereBear: That’s excellent advice for dealing with anyone who wants to use you as a punching bag. Thanks!
Nukular Biskits
I agree … but I’m no longer going to be nice, deflect assholishness or otherwise ignore outright belligerent ignorance.
Look, I’m not going out of my way to look for a fight (figurative or otherwise) but pretending these assholes are anything but what they are is no longer an option for me.
The lesson learned here is that about 50% of our country is comprised of assholes and the other half, give or take, tries to keep the lid from blowing off. This allows the assholes to get away with pretty much everything, and I’m tired of it.
I’m no longer sugarcoating my words when it comes to politics, and especially at the intersection of religion and politics. Diplomatic language buys nothing.
As for this:
you’ll get absolutely no argument from this 60-year old born ‘n’ raised Southern white educated redneck. We had the opportunity to move this country forward and “my people” (read into that how you will) and most of the assholes I grew up with, work with, socialize with were NEVER going to vote for anyone but Trump, regardless of their “sincerely-held religious convictions”, policies, etc.
They wanted an asshole for a president and now they have one again. Fuck them and FSM help the rest of us.
/rant
DebG
@Kathleen: Thank you. Thank you so very much.
rk
@schrodingers_cat:
I feel bad for my son, becasue he’s surrounded by MAGAs. He’s planning on quitting and hopefully this incident hastens the process.
As for my workplace, I’m surrounded by stong black women. They are not the type who will tolerate this crap!
DebG
@rk: So sorry. Please give your son a hug from me.
tobie
My neck of the woods voted red, red, RED. I wouldn’t report anyone but I sure as hell will avoid everyone. I’m in no mood to bite my tongue right now.
Lem365
Can I say “I don’t know anything about anything” instead? Because my late mother absolutely hammered English grammar into me, and I’m afraid she’d haunt me. Came from being a schoolteacher in a hillbilly area.
i just really want to say thank you for this website. I’ve only been a lurker, but right now this is just about the only part of the internet I can stand to look at.
rk
@DebG:
Thank you. I was up in arms about it. He just rolls his eyes and calls them assholes. If this was his school, I would have gone and raised hell. But can’t do that with my adult babies.
WereBear
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: See? But we didn’t bring any Teutonic efficiency to it.
The Nazis were *uck-ups who had failed in various ways before that golden gig turned up. The actual dirty work (Himmler had to stop visiting the camps, it gave him nervous tummy!) was literally done by the young and ambitious.
They grabbed the ladder to advancement with both hand. They would do the dirty work just to climb the ladder to the good life, compared to farm labor or being in the secretarial pool.
Perhaps the best route for the Democrats is to bring a class action suit in any functioning state courts. Start discovery.
cmorenc
I am troubled by the unexpected (albeit likely temporary) huge runup in the value of our stock portfolio during election week and its aftermath. Even though current P/E ratios make stock prices rather high relative to earnings, and valuations have not yet priced in the economic effect of tariffs if Trump follows through on that. I suspect we are the momentary beneficiaries of a market “sugar high” that’s going to hold up over the next 6 months as well as the nutritional value of cotton candy.
schrodingers_cat
@Kathleen: Thanks I appreciate it.
Ruviana
Also, don’t obey in advance.
Baud
@cmorenc: Expectations of lower corporate taxes and massive deregulation.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I would think the point they had to legalize pot because everyone but everyone saw the probation against it as nothing but pure douchbabbery and that made the laws against it unenforceable should be kept in mind.
I also thing cutting off people is a mistake; one woman I dated parents survived the camps because one of the guards they described as a real life version of Stg Schulz from Hogan’s Heroes got them extra food. Just because someone ends up as one of the Orcs doesn’t mean they don’t lose their humanity and it worth reminded them of it.
xephyr
@Nukular Biskits: My sentiments exactly. I have far too much contempt for these people to treat them as anything other than what they are. I’m sure that won’t change a thing, but I’m afraid I might have an aneurysm if I try to express my reaction to all this madness too mildly.
The Pale Scot
If we are lucky
Kathleen
@rk: I am so sorry for your son and you.
NotMax
“Whatever You Say, Say Nothing”
An Irish poem by Seamus Heaney.
Ohio Mom
@Hunter Gathers: Most of those disabled family members are adults — all of us are children only for a small portion of our lives.
i get the panic of parents of young children (been there, obviously) but I have never understood my brethren’s blind spot about their kids’ futures as adults.
The Audacity of Krope
Take stock of who is providing kindness and comfort in your daily life right now. Seek their company.
Mr. Mack
Of great concern for our family is our son, a 4th year deputy sheriff. He is a very gentle soul, great at de-escalating most situations, and is well respected among his peers even as an out and proud Liberal, because he is a very good police officer. But…watch for rouge sheriffs. They wield a ton of power and there are very few safeguards in place when they overstep. He and I talked about what to do if ordered to do something he sees as immoral. He knows I’ve been there, done that.
Kelly
A copy and paste from Adam’s thread last night:
Advice from the National Lawyer Guild
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=nWEpW6KOZDs&ab_channel=NationalLawyersGuild%2CDetroit%26MI
Professor Bigfoot
@Lem365:
“I have no idea what you’re talking about.”
”What? No, I don’t know a damn thing about any of that. I’ve got things to do, am I being detained?”
Kathleen
@DebG: You are welcome!
WereBear
@Phylllis: And we’re women, and only have these fluffy lady brains.
Tee hee!
dww44
@FDRLincoln: This is a person who’s rationalizing with us and herself. It’s misogynistic racism. Jesus Christ, I spent my working life in financial services. The Biden economy has been great and the soft landing hasn’t happened in my lifetime. We need to message that loudly and clearly and repeatedly, beginning now.
frosty
“I don’t know nothing about nothing.”
This is really good advice, and easy. Because with every passing day I know less and less.
WereBear
@rk: If we make them do their own math, they’d quit right away.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
That is a good thing to keep in mind;No one but no one saw “packing SCOTUS with English Civil War Cavalier cosplayers” coming in 2016. Just about any crazy thing can happen with those fools.
Elizabelle
@rk:
Like Elon Musk did. (His own brother admits they worked without authorization prior to applying for citizenship.) Elon, of course, remembers it differently.
and
@rk: Ugh about the boldness in the workplace. Suspect that is very real, where the bullies feel they can get away with it. Gonna be a long ride, and an indicator of how brave one’s friends and associates are (in whether they stand up to the bullies). Of course, now we know about Gray Rocking (above) too.
Professor Bigfoot
I’ve always been able to turn on my “midwestern white guy” accent when I’ve had to deal with cops; and it’s worked pretty well— didn’t get me out of any tickets but it did avoid any searches or <gulp!> shootings.
Now, though… “I’m sorry, I’ve no idea what you’re talking about.”
stacib
@schrodingers_cat: You say so much of what I feel but I’m not nearly tactful enough to publicly post. Thanks for being you.
Nettoyeur
Interesting facts:
In 1953, Operation Wetback deported 1.3 M men of Mexican background, including some US citizens. Growing costs, legal issues and public revulsion ended it in 1954.
Deporting 10M in years would require something like 10x the funding because more immigration courts, judges, enforcement staff would have to be set up….and then there is the construction of the essential concentration camps.
18% of the US military is Latino. Good luck turning them loose on largely Latino people.
Immigrants come here for jobs. The Trump ICE tried raiding work sites until rich mostly GOP owners howled that their companies can’t survive without cheap labor. I guess ICE could try arresting owners who hire illegals….yeah right they are GOP Trump voters.
Transport. Large numbers of aircraft needed, would likely get them from military. But wait….doesn’t the military have some natl defense things to do?
Destination countries would have to agree to accept ALL deportees. This is more or les like getting Mexico to pay for Trump’s border wall.
WereBear
@Betty Cracker: Consider it a payback for “make them explain it to you” for wingnut handling, and hey…
T-bird Day is gonna be LIT.
Gin & Tonic
@schrodingers_cat: We are in a similar position with my DIL. She’ll be traveling in December, but after that not for a while, fortunately. But there’s a lot of concern.
Kathleen
@WereBear: Fluffy with cat hair even!
Steve LaBonne
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Nobody saw it coming?? We fucking warned people at the top of our voices that it would happen if Trump won.
The Pale Scot
@rk:
When Brexit went down there was a huge increase of harassment, not just POC, but Poles, Ukrainians, people from the EU mainland
WereBear
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Reminds me that when policemen/medical staff/lawyers etc under the Nazi regime were told to round up the unwanted, a steady 1/3 or so refused.
Usually, they received no further requests, nor did they experience punishment for doing so. They weren’t going to get a promotion, but they drew a line where they were still policemen doing their jobs, and it was respected.
Because otherwise they would have had none.
This professional angle has been a fruitful one for me in corporate situations. Where they’d like to kill you, but then no one would do your level of work. They know damn well what layabouts the rest of them are.
HinTN
@Hunter Gathers:
Those very institutions that Ronnie Raygun abolished, thereby turning folks out onto the street.
trollhattan
Preach.
Kristine
@FDRLincoln: My follow-up would’ve been “Explain to me how tariffs work.”
Figuring the odds of a wrong answer are at least 50:50.
WereBear
@Kristine: Remembering the look on the landlord’s face when I found a way to explain that the ungodly prices he paid for appliances during the Pandemic were because of the Trump tariffs.
That was weeks ago. I wonder if he will remember how tariffs work.
Lobo
Liu’s recommendation: “Rest. Breathe. Grieve. And then reengage, to fight for the lives of all who are scared and threatened by this regime.”
John, please make buttons with that phrase. For minorities using that phrase and appearing dumb is often a survival tool. We have a lot to learn from black to surviving. Listen to them!!! Also pick your battles, that is often the minority experience.
kindness
Thank you John. You always come through with sage advice.
opiejeanne
My numbness and unnatural calm are starting to wear off so I’m staying busy with trivial jobs for a while so that grief and despair don’t overwhelm me, but I feel them trying. Once I’m sure someone will be in the nearby Democrats’ office, I’ll see if I can help cure the vote for Marie Glusenkamp Perez.
I am going to avoid the idiot next door as much as possible or else I’ll say something that I’ll regret very much. He’s about 75, Vietnam vet, never been married, has no retirement other than Social Security, and lives with his former employer. We can hear him yelling at her through the hedge that shields our property from hers. He’s not very smart but thinks he’s smart, (Dunning Kruger?) and much smarter than women.
A month ago he yelled at me about Turing testing, trying to bully me about Kamala, told me he knows all about the Turing test because he used to live with several lawyers and they were smart guys. I doubt very much that he knows what a Turing test is.
I think women need to start carrying knives, after hearing men bullying online and elsewhere about to whom women’s bodies belong.
The Pale Scot
@Phylllis:
I am just typical
RussianAmerican citizen with no particular interest in politicsLem365
@Professor Bigfoot: I could do those :)
I mean, she might still haunt me for the “damn”, but not as badly.
Got to leave now for a weekend trip. But maybe I’ll post again sometime. Take care everyone.
TheflipPsyd
@dww44: I live in Delaware and everybody and their brother works in financial services or has worked for them at some point. I had four separate people tell me that their managements were saying that Trump needed to win because it would be so much better for the economy, their jobs and the future of the country. One person who works for a huge bank and employer shared that they had voted for Trump in the past, but was really struggling with how to vote this time.
Just anecdata — but it feels like every level of life in 2024 was rooting for the fascist.
trollhattan
This fuckin’ guy. Did you know we only have a new presidential term every eight years? (TBH I thought the dude had vanished into earned obscurity.) Some lecture there, pinhead. How does somebody memory-hole 2020?
Now I want to find his lair and bash his melon with McMegan’s 2×4.
schrodingers_cat
@stacib: The first time someone has described me as tactful! Thanks. Its good to know that I am speaking for others too besides myself.
trollhattan
@Kristine: I’ll give 4:1 on wrong answers. Wilbur Ross was lying about them, again, just yesterday.
The Audacity of Krope
You’re complimenting S_C’s posts and you think lack of tact is what’s holding you back? Some of us can choose to turn it off or on. S_C is about as tactful as an over-caffeinated MAGA.
trollhattan
@The Pale Scot:
Yass. “Here’s why Democrats forced me to vote for Trump.”
Ohio Mom
@Nettoyeur: Yeah, I’ve been thinking about all those so-called fiscal conservatives who can’t wait for us to spend a fortune on rounding up, detaining and transporting Hispanics (not that there aren’t other groups here undocumented). Even if we do it on the cheap, skipping things like hearings, it will be a lot of money. Not that they actually care about government debt. Just another small example of their hypocrisy and lack of critical thought.
On another note, I worry about my ability to keep my mouth shut, I can have a very short temper and be quite a loudmouth.
I trimmed my life of asshole righties years ago, just left with a few odds and ends like my cousin’s husband that I’m stuck with, though I do give them wide berth.
When I was in high school I saw a foreign film that took place behind the iron curtain — seeing subtitled movies was something of a hobby back then, a luxury of growing up in NYC.
I don’t remember a thing about the film, its title or storyline, just remember noting the cinematography was dark, okay I get the metaphor, and that none of the characters truly trusted one another on any level, even though they were family members and others in their close circles. That was so chilling to the young me, that living in a dictatorship polluted even the closest of personal relationships.
Looking back on that, I see why we are telling ourselves to strentgthenand fortify our personal relationships starting now.
Elizabelle
@Mr. Mack: Good luck to your family and your son. Please keep us apprised of what he sees over the coming months, to the extent that you can.
JMG
The safest prediction in politics is that Trump will NOT start his term as a normal President.
OId Man Shadow
I’m so goddamned angry right now. I do want to lash out.
catclub
@FDRLincoln:
The key point that Trump understands is to trumpet loudly and repeatedly that the economy is the greatest ever while he is president.
no waffling like a three handed economist
Professor Bigfoot
Well, I’ve finally learned about The Audacity of Pie; because fuck that guy.
TBone
Holy shit you guys, my new Asian dentist who I fell in love with last month is Antifa and would not stop talking about his prior military training and how he’s training up his daughter at the gun range AND his female assistant chimed in and said the same about her and HER children. People are PISSED.
I told him I need his home address because I need to be on his team!
PENNSYLTUCKY BRIGADE
catclub
@Steve LaBonne: Keep singing it! thanks
Steve LaBonne
@catclub: The famous Feynman quote also applies to running the economy: “For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled.”
Baud
@catclub:
No way. That would totally go against what the “lived economy” feels like.
SC54HI
A late friend used to talk about his first rule of conflict: “Let the assholes get in a fight with each other.”
I do not recommend instigating or abetting an asshole fight, but letting it happen may derail whatever evil things they intended to do. If this isn’t already happening in the trump camp, it will after Jan. There are way too many assholes in their camp for it NOT to happen. So, IMO, it should also be considered as a resistance tactic.
catclub
@JMG: well they are fucking up the transition…. again.
But probably differently from last time.
JoyceH
@Ohio Mom:
Heck, if they deport all the people that Trump claims he’s going to deport, by next fall we’ll be looking at food shortages. You don’t think Trumpistas are going to harvest those crops do you?
WereBear
Also, we can call different kinds of general strikes. See how long they last, bullying and bribing the marginal talents left into doing all the work.
24 hours. Maybe.
Steve LaBonne
@JoyceH: The “plan” is prison labor. They know how that works down South.
Professor Bigfoot
@TBone: “Shit’s getting real!”
I used to say the best thing about the Trump presidency was that the price of guns and ammo were *amazingly* low.
If that repeats, I intend to add more to what’s already in the safe.
Jinchi
@catclub: I was utterly baffled that people fell for that line. Virtually all of us are better off than we were when that Troll left office. Businesses were shuttered, millions unemployed, shortages of basic goods.
That was only four years ago. How do they not remember that?
WereBear
@TheflipPsyd: I guess they don’t want a robust stock market.
All the time.
But they figure they can piss off enough people, run away with the money they made other ways, and let the Dems reset the board for another game!
Which is how it used to work. Never go full Nazi. Pure hell on the economy.
TBone
@Professor Bigfoot: 💪💜📣
Mum is NOT the word, in certain situations!
I am making Thanksgiving dinner tonight. Because I got a free turkey certificate at my grocer, I’m cooking the bone-in breast I have in the freezer.
I am so blessed to live among the take no shit people here.
opiejeanne
@The Audacity of Krope: The United Methodist Church has settled their internal dispute over LGBTQ persons being ordained, and I noticed recently that the church down the hill from my house is no longer UMC, and in order to pay for their exit settlement (pay for half the value of the church property and fund the retirements of their pastors ) they are now renting out the property to an Episcopalian congregation. The ex-UMC had very few kids above nursery level in their Sunday Schools and their membership is mostly old people.
The other UMC, which is hard to get to from my house when it rains, is very much the Social Justice Warriors that I’m familiar with, and I think I will attend on Sunday. They have lots of kids in their congregation, a lot of teenagers, and the membership is a bit younger.
Steve LaBonne
@Jinchi:
It wasn't Trump's fault that Jyna declared biological warfare on us and that the stupid libs destroyed the economy with their lockdowns.terraformer
@TBone:
Indeed. BJ has been my island of sanity for over 20 years now. And it ain’t ending soon.
Suzanne
@Jinchi: Sarah Longwell noted that, based on her focus groups, people mostly consider the pandemic an exogenous event, and do not hold Trump responsible for any of the shutdowns, lost jobs, etc. So they are really responding to how they were doing five years ago.
Villago Delenda Est
Which is all that needs to be said. The margins mean very very little. Too many people are still in a tribal mentality, which is our greatest weakness as a nation. They can’t see past the end of their fucking nose. The aspirations that made this one of the world’s great countries, and a beacon of hope for millions, are totally lost on the obvious majority of millions of Americans.
Concentrate on the enemy at the gates, as John Cole suggests.
stacib
@The Audacity of Krope: OMG, if you could hear my thoughts sometimes, SC sounds positively tame. LOL Disagree with her if you will, it’s your right, but some of us hear her words and clap.
catclub
me too, but this is the basic big lie. People might not believe that, but they unconsciously agree with the general parameters. Overton window is sliding far towards their lie. an advantage of the sociopath.
Once they are known liars, NOTHING can be trusted to be anywhere near the truth.
Phylllis
@The Pale Scot: Hee!
catothedog
@Elizabelle:
The problem is not a mass scale of deportation or firing of civil service employees, which would be very impractical and disruptive. It is that the thugs would make enough examples of those who resist. They would bring down the full power of the state machinery on them, until the rest would fall in line
Even with project 2025, they would not fire 20, 000 of the civil service and replace them. They would bring in their people at the top, and then make examples of a few 1000 who would not fall in line with the new boss. They are vey clear on their methodology – Trump’s OMB-head-to-be had an interview stating exactly this about project 2025 implementation.
Similarly with deportation of the undocumented and going after naturalized citizens. The thugs would make enough public examples to make them fall in line. Bow down to the white man and stay in line, or we will destroy you.
catclub
@Suzanne:
yes, amnesia. also Bush kept us safe.
WereBear
Easy. They don’t want to. So they don’t have to.
A single LEGO block of a mindset, and look how far it can get a pale Y chromosome who is merely mediocre.
Alce_e _ ardillo
@Suzanne:
@David Anderson: We are all Sgt. Schultz now…
Jinchi
@Starfish: Hey if rightwingers believe Mickey Mouse ihas been voting, they should fall for “Speedy Gonzales”.
Sandia Blanca
@opiejeanne: As a member of a very progressive UMC, I endorse this plan for you, opiejeanne! We have already been involved in many justice initiatives (economic, racial, environmental, etc.), and are planning how we will increase those efforts, especially to protect queer people and others who are vulnerable. We are ordering more of our “church merch” including t-shirts that say “Blessed are those who resist.”
JanieM
One addition to John’s mantra:
“Am I under arrest?”
“Am I free to go?”
“I want a lawyer.”
“Do you have a warrant?”
“I do not consent to any searches.”
From the ACLU of Maine web page on the subject:
Also, “Whatever you say say nothin’,” the musical version.
catclub
@JanieM: This the basic list in youtube videos that tell you to never say anything to the police.
WereBear
You know what a movie about the college/no-college divide should be called?
Revenge of the Mediocre
Clear to me, at least.
opiejeanne
@stacib: Me too. S-C is me on sedatives, if you heard what’s going on inside me.
way2blue
Morning John. And thanks for the counsel.
Another suggestion for folks with a significant online presence—consider subscribing to a service that scrubs your information from online data brokers/aggregators. Tim Miller plugged one on his Bulwark podcast with Tom Nichols yesterday. I think it was called ‘Delete It’…
Suzanne
@catclub: I also saw this on Xhitter and I think it’s the correct take:
Ohio Mom
@catothedog: And Trumpers are so innumerate that a relatively small number of detained and deported Hispanics will impress them.
I agree, the plan is to make examples of some in order to intimidate everyone else into compliance,
schrodingers_cat
@opiejeanne: I have deleted many comments. Comment section me is not the unfiltered me either. Thanks for the vote of confidence.
The Audacity of Krope
@stacib: I agree with her sometimes, not others. Even when I agree, I find the lack of tact jarring. YMMV. We two have really old beef.
catclub
I think they can and will, unless those naturalized citizens can afford a good immigration lawyer.
Villago Delenda Est
@JoyceH: Here’s what it’s going to look like!
Villago Delenda Est
@catclub: Leon Musk probably can. If one can be found to represent him. I’m sure if he offers a big enough wad of cash this will come to pass.
AM in NC
@FDRLincoln: And with EVERY piece of horrible economic news under Trump, please send a message to this person. We can’t just go along to get along with these folks. They need to know that WE know they voted for lies, and we need to show them that they were, in fact, lies, and and kindly ask them NOW what are they going to do with their vote since what they voted for was a lie that did not come true?
Don’t be ugly about, just consistent in contacting them every time Trump policies cause problems and pointing out that the opposite of what they wanted/expected is what happened. And ask if they are going to repeat this mistake in the future.
trollhattan
@way2blue: Facebook Container is a browser extension that blocks FB trackers that commonly exist on many, many web pages.
Any opinions here on the Mozilla VPN? We’re suddenly…interested.
The Audacity of Krope
You think they’re gonna let a little thing like the law stop them from deporting citizens? Just saying I hope everyone’s grandparents were born here, cuz…
Jinchi
Yes they will. There’s a reason totalitarian regimes are so intent on getting “confessions”.
Don’t make the job easy for them.
Steve LaBonne
@Suzanne: One small ray of hope is that Republicans are not going to heed that lesson. Pretty much every economic “idea” they have is inflationary.
Ksmiami
One other thing that I’ve implemented in my life is AVOID RED STATES at all costs. No tourism, no trade, zippo. That trip to Orlando, cancel it. Weekend in Las Vegas, forget it. Blue states have tremendous wealth. Punish the hicks.
Villago Delenda Est
@Suzanne: The corporations saw an opening to make a killing. They don’t care about anyone other than themselves, so such a scenario would never happen.
Greed will destroy the human race.
MagdaInBlack
@schrodingers_cat: I’m with you too ❤️
I am currently so angry at my “tribe” i do not have words.
AM in NC
@Steve LaBonne: Yep, white liberal churches are going to need to step up and do something they are normally loath to do: publicly address the theft of their religion by rightwing Christo-fascists. And offer a full-throated defense of leftist politics as explicitly Christian and rightwing politics as explicitly anti-Christian.
WereBear
@Suzanne: Because they don’t DO actual cause and effect.
My cats do better. They are realists.
schrodingers_cat
@MagdaInBlack: Thanks.
Steve LaBonne
@AM in NC: They do that all the fucking time while the media ignore them and interview Franklin Graham to find out what “Christians” think.
TBone
If I suddenly stop commenting here, you will know that I have
smashed my personal tracking devicedrowned my dumb phone in a bucket of antifreeze and joined forces with my dentist and his assistant.Fascistbook did the dirty work of unpersoning me and removing my only other digital footprint years ago.
JoyceH
@Steve LaBonne:
That doesn’t work, not at scale. What the right doesn’t grasp is that manual labor isn’t necessarily UNSKILLED labor, and when you replace a skilled workforce with an unskilled workforce, you don’t even get a third of the productivity. Have you ever seen video of migrant laborers harvesting crops? Those guys are FAST! No wasted movement and no wasted crops.
There was a project way back, in the 60s I think, a pilot program to recruit high school seniors to spend their summer before college out in the country harvesting. It was pitched as a patriotic thing for young male athletes. Sounded a bit Soviet, to be honest. It was a laughable failure. Even the most fit teenage athlete can’t put in a full day of repetitive labor; I think the number that made it through the whole summer was zero or close to it.
kwAwk
There is a lot of hand wringing over this election Kamala Harris should have done this, Joe Biden should have done that.
Reality is, Donald Trump is a Republican problem, not a Democratic problem. A lot of Republican over the past 10 years have wanted Democrats to fix their problem for them, and we can’t fix them.
Truth be told the first step in fixing the Trump problem would be for Republicans to find whatever rock George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are living under and put them in front of a camera and make them man up for their mistakes and apologize for in the war in Iraq. The right wing base knows they were rode hard and put away wet. Lied to. Taken advantage of. And they’ve lost faith. The same goes for the Bush/Cheney pivot in 2001 to Deficits Don’t Matter.
Donald Trump knows this. It’s one of those little things he’s right about and he uses it for his benefit. He’s willing to call out the bullshit surrounding the GWOT. The same cowards who have been covering for Donald Trump for 10 years, are the same cowards who have been covering for George W. Bush since 2001.
We on the left have given it all we have. I still think giving in on the trans in sports issue would have helped, but at the end of the day Donald Trump is a Republican problem that they need to fix for themselves. All we on the left can do is wait for them to do it or wait for him to be Constitutionally disqualified from office.
Steve LaBonne
@JoyceH: None of their “ideas” will actually work, but that won’t stop them from trying.
Another Scott
@Omnes Omnibus: The time I was paddled in middle school, over playing at the lunch table and an empty milk carton accidentally being sent flying down the table a few spots and some guy tattling, I couldn’t believe the process. 3-4 teachers, asking me questions about who did what when. My brain was in a weird state over the unfairness of it all and not being able to explain that it was an accident and not understanding the implications of what they were asking because of the adrenaline and all the rest.
It was so unfair!! Why were they doing this to me?? Why couldn’t they understand!!??
I got several smacks with a wooden paddle and sent back to the lunchroom.
I was crying because it was so humiliating and unfair. (My co-conspirator held his emotions inside.)
People confronting law enforcement for the first time are likely to be in a similar frame of mind – no, no, it’s a mistake, etc., – and want to explain. I think it’s very human to try to do that, especially when the stress levels are through the roof.
Not doing so is difficult.
Thanks for the reminder of the importance of not trying to explain.
Hang in there, everyone.
Best wishes,
Scott.
WereBear
@Suzanne: Slight correction:
Decades of Republican IGMFU modeled for them.
lowtechcyclist
@TheflipPsyd:
If you had $100K in an S&P 500 index fund when Biden was inaugurated, and had just left it there, it would be worth $156K right now. I tell you, he’s been so bad for investments! (Thanks, Biden!)
Villago Delenda Est
@TBone: I remember back in 1988 when Pat Robertson was running for President. I was standing around in the Division Operations (G3) plans section, discussing this with a colleague, that if Robertson was ever elected President I’d head for the hills with a personal AR-15 and start up a resistance movement. Two soldiers standing nearby immediately volunteered to join me.
opiejeanne
My older niece is married to a great guy of Mexican origin, whose family have been in the US since at least 1900, his grandfather who was born here recently died at age 104.
At their wedding in 2017, an aunt by marriage asked if he was marrying her for a green card. This was the early Trump effect the first time around.
Niece was worried about ICE showing up because there was at least one undocumented person who would be there, probably several. The wedding was in my sister’s backyard so I gave her the advice I learned here, about not letting them in without a warrant and what to say, so thank you very much Balloon Juice.
I had to talk her off the ledge on Wednesday, and it was tough. I’ll check in with her again today. Her dad (a Trumper and a jerk) just died and she’s having a rough time at work right now. Gave her more good advice, stuff I knew but could put into words because of what I read here over the years.
catothedog
@schrodingers_cat:
I have disagreed with you in the past. But you should continue to speak up here. I appreciate you being here
You can proivide a lot of insight to everyone here. What Modi has done in India – by subjugating the media and making the oligarchy to bow to him, thereby crippling the Congress and the opposition parties – is more or less the playbook Trump and the Rethugs will implement, and I hope you write about that.
WereBear
@AM in NC: I’m sorry, but do you know any wingnuts?
Now that this person has outed themselves as a secret bigot when she thinks the coast is clear, you think they will listen to reason?
That’s wasn’t used to get her to this position. It won’t get her out.
Peale
@WereBear: Well, that’s what we had under Obama and they hated it then!
Suzanne
@JoyceH:
@WereBear:
You’re both right.
I said the other day…. I am actually pretty sympathetic to the argument that the economy feels bad for people. Working really hard and yet losing buying power sucks.
Where my sympathy utterly crashes into a wall is when someone decides to vote for an utter evil dumbass because they’re pissed about the economy. Fucken fools don’t understand basic-ass supply and demand.
TBone
@Another Scott: When I got swatted one night, my boss who represents all the Fraternal Orders of Police in five PA Counties, came to visit me in my cell the next morning, (before he hired his best friend, the most expensive criminal attorney in DelCo to represent me), with the Chief of Police in tow, who then apologized to me. The arresting officers had told my boss that I was the most abrasive female they’d ever met 😆 because all I would say to them was “Don’t you have any real criminals to catch?”
schrodingers_cat
@catothedog: Our media didn’t even put up a fight that I saw people like Ravish Kumar, Nikhil Wagle, Siddharth Vardarajan put up. They were R cheerleaders despite Trump.
trollhattan
@lowtechcyclist: My results to a T.
Biden policy dragged my retirement savings accounts out of the covid crater (they had been “Meh” during Trump’s earlier reign) and more recently, have recovered from the Ukraine invasion cratering. As of the Q3 24 statements they’ve never been better.
Donny will fix that, right good.
Steve LaBonne
@Suzanne: The hell of it is, the people whining about that are actually pretty comfortable. It’s near the bottom of the income ladder that people have made real-dollar gains in Biden’s economy. And they mostly don’t vote, and being poorly educated tend to vote Republican if they do.
opiejeanne
@Sandia Blanca: This UMC is very much like that, and proud of it. When we first moved here we checked out the ex-UMC and the members creeped us out a little but we couldn’t quite put our finger on why, and the pastor gave the blandest sermon I’ve ever heard in my long life, as if he was afraid to offend anyone.
TBone
@Villago Delenda Est: 💙😎✊
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
They got one of those slow recoveries with high unemployment but stable prices at the beginning of Obama’s administration. The 2010 midterms strongly suggest that people didn’t like that either.
So if, politically speaking, we were damned either way, I’m glad Biden & Co. did it the way they did it.
Steve LaBonne
@trollhattan: I am planning to get our nest egg completely out of stocks. The question is timing- I would like to keep some of the sugar-high gains I’m enjoying now but if I wait too long the crash could come before I expect it. At the moment I’m thinking mid-January.
Suzanne
“I love the poorly educated.”
LMMFAO. I bet you do!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@lowtechcyclist:
This is obviously true but it’s a tough sell to a lot of people who a) don’t have $100K lying around to plop into an S&P Index fund, and b) view people who are pitching the “economy is great” from that metric as something akin to snake oil salesmen totally unconnected from the day-to-day reality of their lives.
All that being said, the cognitive dissonance of such folks who then say “Trump will make the economy better” is a sight to behold.
So much of what we’ve been discussing the last couple of days always comes back to “framing”.
TBone
I still have the metal F.O.P. badge (looks almost like an old school sheriff badge, it’s got a big star) that attaches to your license plate that I got when my (retired cop) dad died and didn’t need to use it any longer.
Phylllis
@JoyceH: I grew up picking tomatoes and beans on the family truck farm. As a teenager, I could sling the 40 lb buckets up on the flatbed as good as the Mexican guys. I could not pick as fast as they could–they’d do 3-4 buckets to my one. It’s real, hardass work.
Steve LaBonne
@Suzanne: They know he’s a moron and they like that. He doesn’t make them feel inferior the way those elitist eggheads do.
Chris Johnson
Deny it harder, bro, that’ll work. Deny it LOUDER. Absolutely nobody will find you sus as fuck if you simply deny more, find ways to bring it up in unrelated conversations, DEAR GOD MAN BE SURE AND DENY THAT FILTHY LIB LIE SOME MORE
That won’t be sus at ALL.
(idiot could have stuck to ‘he got real votes’ and might not even have been lying, but nooooo)
Baud
@WereBear:
And we’re going to have to reckon with the fact that Biden took our advice not to make the mistake Obama made of not pushing for a larger stimulus.
Perhaps we owe Biden an apology.
WereBear
@Peale: Because of liberal cooties.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@lowtechcyclist:
Exactly, it was a sucky way to do it and Obama paid a political price at the mid-terms for it. Along with the astroturf Teaturd movement contributing to that political price. What Biden did was far better and far less neoliberal in it’s approach…and still paid a political price for it that I think looking back, we could have managed better in terms of messaging.
Suzanne
@lowtechcyclist:
Agree.
But I do think that no Democrat could have won this cycle. Cost of living is a real issue, and high housing costs is a problem that goes back a long time (housing starts fell off a cliff after 2008).
@Steve LaBonne:
I think there’s a lot of truth to Tom Nichols’ statement about people being full of resentment at those living “unjustly” good lives.
opiejeanne
@TBone: Female.
The Thin Black Duke
Deleted.
Suzanne
@Steve LaBonne: I remember saying that Trump’s win in 2016 was “the primal scream of the white moron”, and not a single thing that has happened has shaken my belief.
The Audacity of Krope
The people who mystify me are those my age and younger who have literally never worked in a good economy.
TBone
@opiejeanne: well yeah, I went to jail in a cold basement cell in a skimpy negligee in the middle of the night, practically buck nekkid 😆
But that still beats the freezing cold anti-lice spray, shampoo, and orange jumpsuit I got the next time!
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
My piece of advice is this: Stop thinking Trump and his people are stupid.
For example, there’s been some ‘he crash the economy with tariffs and people will realize we were right all along’ talk. That’s just arrogance and wishful thinking. He might crash the economy. But then he will course correct, disavow ever having supported tariffs, and no one will hold him accountable, especially if the economy improves after the own goal. He’s going to do stuff like that over and over again, like he did last time. He may not care what happens to us, but it matters to him that his supporters are happy. They will keep if in power if they are, and he knows that. He will make sure they are happy enough. If he can’t give them bread, he’ll give them circuses. Whatever it takes. As long as he manages to at least partially fix they things they care about that he breaks, they’ll forgive him. So it is utterly pointless to sit around and wait for him to screw up so we can pounce. It won’t work. We have to take an active role in rebuilding our world, our communities from the bottom up.
Melancholy Jaques
We want it to be otherwise, we want to find some quick solution that would work “if only the Democrats blah, blah, motherfucking blah” but there is no quick solution and at times I despair that there is any solution.
But I have to add that there are people of every demographic that just will not vote for a woman for president. This is the second time that they have chosen a completely unqualified and unfit man over an eminently qualified woman.
WereBear
@Suzanne: Speaking of framing, the crash of German’s economy after losing the Great War was seriously bad — go to the bakery now the next loaves will be double the price – BAD.
To translate the whining about not getting to go out to party during the Pandemic into “these damn egg prices are too high!” and respond the SAME as starving Germans…
Is discouraging.
Chris Johnson
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Erm.
Trump is indeed really truly stupid.
Some of the others are stupid and some aren’t. Thiel’s not stupid but his morality is not ours. Elon’s on drugs. Putin is totally lost to his conspiracy world. Some of them want to make the country work, some of them want to crash the dollar, some of them want to hole up in compounds and see if they can cull all the poors at once by obliterating it all, in hopes of building something neat on the ashes.
There’s no telling which will prevail. A bunch of these people are all-in on crypto, and that’s the mark of a crazy gambler. The idea that they have to please their base is not true: they might look to ruling their base and making an example of the others.
Ain’t none of them fans of democracy. They’re literally all something else.
Eural Joiner
@Steve LaBonne: just came here to say that as well – our small, very active Cooperative Baptist Church gets no publicity…the giant mega-church’s leadership is on the news for opinions all the time. Uuugh.
TheflipPsyd
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I often find the no more mister nice blog to be incredibly depressing. Today’s post is spot on though. I think there are a lot of people who survived the inflation by using their credit cards and now can’t pay them off. The interest rates on credit cards is out of this world. And rather than blaming the banks, people who use credit cards are told they did something wrong, are living beyond their means and are just bad people in general.
This is the lived economy.
New Deal democrat
@WereBear:
Not really, because economics is all about trade offs. The alternative wasn’t 4% unemployment and 2% inflation, it was something like *20%* unemployment and 2% inflation.
Herbert Hoover type numbers.
Biden chose the better option. Among other things, the Fed hiking interest rates in response to the way CPI measures housing costs helped doom the Democrats. I wrote about it at more length here:
https://bonddad.blogspot.com/2024/11/how-fed-helped-doom-democrats.html
TBone
@Chris Johnson: 🎯
On what fucking planet and in what fucking solar system?
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Its not the economy, its white people’s feelings and vibes that are more important than anything. And they are hurt if you acknowledge the humanity of who they perceive to be the other. That was Biden’s biggest mistake.
This is as true about the podcastbros, and the horseshoe left bros as it is about MAGA and RWNJs.
Mr. Bemused Senior
Absolute truth.
The Audacity of Krope
Just called Senator Warren to congratulate her on her overwhelming election victory and for doing so much to help reelect Trump.
Sherrod Brown at least got what he deserved.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@TheflipPsyd:
It’s a good read:
https://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2024/11/the-election-explained-in-two-charts.html
The other thing it charts is something people have brought up repeatedly: 2024’s Graveyard of Incumbents.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Chris Johnson: He’s beat law enforcement. He’s beat the courts. He’s beat the Dems in Congress and the Senate. He’s beat us. It keeps happening and people keep acting like he can’t possibly do X because he’s too stupid and too incompetent. “He’s going to fail. Everything he touches dies.” Yet, here we are. I’ve stopped underestimating him.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m pretty confident that the media’s coverage of the economy will improve, even if the economy doesn’t. We’ll see how people respond.
Mike E
That was me at work after ’16 with our resident Trumpers virtue signaling seemingly every day and letting no banal/neutral work situation go untouched by their Trump obsession. To a one, I never rose to the bait, even raised my hand as if in a school room to interject, “Anyway, will this event need more stanchions?” The mania eventually wore off or my gray demeanor prevailed, who knows.
One guy, mostly harmless and kind of a clichéd southern stereotype who didn’t care how he came off, was obsessed with the vice president’s ethnic makeup and gave me a mini dissertation (apropos of nothing in that days interactions) on her origins he gleaned off of his internet sources… I patiently waited for his rant to conclude (“she ain’t Black!”) and after a glorious moment of quiet I replied, “Honestly, we’re all out of Africa.” He smiled, then went the direction he was going to all along. I’m not sure how I’m going to respond this time around, but I have prior experience to inform how these people are going to be who they are regardless of what I’ll say or do.
Sandia Blanca
@opiejeanne: Although the disaffiliation has caused much sorrow within the UMC, the remaining congregations are experiencing a surge of energy, as we no longer need to waste energy on endless arguments as to who is deserving of love.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: The media is the problem, they wanted Trump back and they got what they wanted.
We played right into their hands.
The Audacity of Krope
@schrodingers_cat: Every single 24 hour news network and most of the prestige newspapers need to be boycotted. Anyone who donated to Republicans, too.
They shouldn’t get customers. They shouldn’t get employees. We have the competent working class people mainly on our side, they need to see what life is like without us.
Melancholy Jaques
I just read Eric Loomis’s Initial Election Thoughts at LG&M and I’m kind of shocked to discover that I agree with almost all of it. None of his usual snide, disparaging tone towards others. Just a lot of home truths.
Trivia Man
@Starfish: i bet rafael cruz has a file so thick any reports on him get auto-rejected
AM in NC
@opiejeanne: My mom raised us in the Methodist Church because when we moved to a new place she could always find a liberal Methodist church after visiting a few. Funny how some are essentially Baptist and others UCC.
The Audacity of Krope
@Melancholy Jaques: I was wondering how things have been going over at LGM. There are three scalps on the masthead I’ve been dying to collect.
Trivia Man
@Omnes Omnibus: i learned that from west wing.
do you know what time it is?
its 10:15
WRONG!!! The answer is “yes”
Melancholy Jaques
@Omnes Omnibus:
My years of prepping people for depositions confirms.
Steve LaBonne
@Sandia Blanca: Our UU reactionaries (the “Fifth Principle Project”) think they’re liberal and are certainly not as bad as the ex-UMC contingent. But they were / are causing enough heartburn in our previous congregation that my wife and I couldn’t take it any more. Our new congregation- almost exactly the same distance from our house- is really lovely and a great source of comfort.
WereBear
@schrodingers_cat: That I really agree with you about.
Maybe THEY didn’t even know how bigoted they were… and now they hide it from shame.
Good luck cracking that defense. They will literally die first, as in the book by a doctor, Dying of Whiteness.
It’s a grim picture of what we are up against. They complain about “identity politics” when their system has only two allowable identities, male and female.
And the problems which come from constantly chopping up the internal human psyche with brutal control techniques.
Renie
It’s aggravating that the stock market rise is being attributed to trump winning. IMO it’s probably due more to the distribution of the senate and, so far, the house being close to half and half. This will most probably cause no real legislation to be passed and the market prefers no abrupt changes.
If you are in the market, again IMO, don’t take everything out now. Make sure you are allocated across the boards, don’t have everything in individual stocks, switch to mutual funds or ETFs. (Only main difference you can trade EFTs while the market is open.) If it makes you feel better, change your risk allowance to be more conservative. When people take everything out of the market they usually re-enter when it is high again at higher stock prices. Then you miss out on the jump. Now we don’t know if something trump does is going to cause a big drop like in 2020 but the rebound did happen fairly quickly unlike in 2008 when it took years. If you are young and building for your retirement, just leave it alone (but check allocation) market always will go up again (and down). If you are already retired and need to live on withdrawals from your portfolio be a little more cautious. If you have a financial advisor even asking them what to do is useless cuz they don’t really know when to jump in or out. They’re motto is to stay steady.
My husband and I are in our 60s and retired. For personal reasons we are hoping to leave our stock portfolio as is because we want to leave the money to our kids. I worry more about their financial outlook than my own. This may change if the GOP screws with Soc Sec but for those who have it now I don’t think we will be affected. But they may change if for the next generations, like putting off the age you can collect to a later age or greatly reducing benefits.
Again this is my opinion. I’m not a financial advisor just have learned a lot working for one the last 6 years before I retired. Hope this info helps someone or at last calm you down.
WereBear
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: He is deep in dementia. And going fast. They might just have to resort to taxidermy.
And Disney sure needs the money. Animatronics and cleaned up recordings of his voice. That’s the ticket!
Baud
@Renie:
No one cared about the Biden boom market over the last year, so I hardly am going to care about it now.
Trivia Man
@Steve LaBonne: our congregation had a very helpful in person support meeting Wednesday for about a dozen of us.
Disappointed that i was the only man who felt the need for support and commiseration.
Mike E
@The Audacity of Krope: I guess “don’t be a dick” is a bridge too far for you today…heh, whatever. Beef is best simmered a long time!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Melancholy Jaques:
Okay, you got me to go over there. Yes, most of what Gloomis said is spot on, that’s correct. But he did have a snide aside in the #6 paragraph about Cincinnati chili. He just can’t help himself.
But Para #7 is what people should read whenever somebody here poops on “the labor movement” and suggests we abandon it:
Gloomis is generally nothing but faults but get him in his wheelhouse, labor, and one should pay attention to what he says. In fact, the overall piece is excellent. Still not enough to get me back there but it’s now bookmarked.
cain
@The Audacity of Krope:
Absolutely, but I’m already there, so not sure how to get my parents and others to switch off of MSNBC.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ohio Mom: Every unwarranted deportation is a crime. Even if we can’t stop it, we need to bear witness. If they go full Project 2025, there will need to be Nuremberg-type trials in the future.
Baud
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
You keep lying about my comment. I never said abandon labor. I said don’t accept claims that Dems abandoned labor.
The Audacity of Krope
@Mike E: Eh, when you try to criticize people’s decisions more politely it gets ignored or they still call you a dick.
If I got a problem with someone now, I’m not even gonna try the polite approach first anymore. No one respects it, no one cares. This world values abuse. Just as true here as anywhere else,.
AM in NC
@Steve LaBonne: Yes, I know they make announcements, but I mean stage big public events and get in the media’s face.
We need to adopt some of the tactics of the right while rejecting their ideology and amorality. It does not come naturally to a lot of people and institutions on our side. For good reason.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Baud:
My comments were not in response to anything you said although I posted it under one of your comments. I should have made that clear earlier.
Baud
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Ok, thanks.
Steve LaBonne
@AM in NC: Their (and my UU) clergy also show up at protests and get arrested. And you can’t make the media pay attention to what they don’t want to pay attention to. Years ago the networks refused to air a prime time UCC ad in support of LGBT people for being “too controversial”.
Doc Sportello
@Omnes Omnibus: This is old lawyer lore (and I am an old lawyer). The only things to offer to an LEO or to say in a deposition are:
Renie
@Baud:
Ok but many people are now concerned about the money they worked hard to put away in 401(k)s and IRAs. It’s more from them then people not caring.
Bupalos
Yeah! Or getting them to vote for a facist regime in the first place! Never happen.
Omnes Omnibus
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: None of that makes him smart.
Omnes Omnibus
@Trivia Man: Exactly.
AM in NC
@WereBear: I just keep hoping that some of these people, ones who have enough decency that they were friends, might improve when the reality of what they voted for starts smacking them in the face AND the people they like/are friends with say to them “hey, you made a mistake here, and I see it – here’s some proof. What are you going to do about it now?”
It might change nothing, and probably wouldn’t for hardcores (but those aren’t the people I’m talking about), but seems worth a sot. If they hear that from multiple people, well, peer pressure is a strong force.
The Other Bob
It brings me a small measure of comfort knowing that one cop out there isnt a total racist fascist.
me
@Bupalos:Right, someone earlier posted that latinos are not a monolith. Do you think that Cubans, in general, are going to feel enough kinship with Mexicans or Venezuelans to refuse to round them up? Some will but probably not most.
Steve LaBonne
Good Lord, I read Loomis’s latest post on LGM and I agree with pretty much every word, not just the labor part. The world has indeed been turned upside down.
Omnes Omnibus
@Doc Sportello: Yep. If your lawyer thinks you need to flesh out your response, they will help you do it.
SomeRandomGuy
You know what’s fun on this blog and CFS? How you make several responses to a long dead thread that had 5 posts when you started.
If anyone is reading, and hasn’t seen the question: should we disengage from the police, in general? I mean, part of me says “just like the Germans should have,” and part of me says “but it can’t be that time yet.”
TBone
@Trivia Man: 💙📣
Or
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Omnes Omnibus: I have read my share of deposition transcripts and been astonished at some people’s answers. I have received the advice you and others recommend and done my best to follow it.
I’m glad to be out of that game now.
SFBayAreaGal
@schrodingers_cat: I support you also.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@SFBayAreaGal: @schrodingers_cat:
Adding my support too.
TBone
@Renie: 👍 trying to time the market is always a bad idea. Diversify!
SomeRandomGuy
I despise people talking about how Trump’s mandate might not be as strong as he thinks, HIS POWER IS.
That is all.
Omnes Omnibus
@SomeRandomGuy: What do you mean by “disengage from the police?”
Currants
Hell YEAH I’d buy those stickers…how about buttons too?
TBone
@SomeRandomGuy: he is just a man like any other, with no magical abilities whatsoever. He will face death just like the rest of us.
E. Jean Carroll, face to face with him:
SomeRandomGuy
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: I’d only add: EVERYTHING he touches, dies, we agree? He’s touching the entire USA. This isn’t a good thing,
Ksmiami
@WereBear: the Stepford president?
me
@Ksmiami: Weekend at Donnie’s.
Citizen Alan
@WereBear: This. It absolutely disgusts me that at the age of fifty five I am now living in a nation ruled by the sort of assholes who would have slammed me into a locker in seventh grade because “reading is for fags.”
Betty Cracker
@me: It bears repeating that NO bloc is a monolith. But here in FL, after DeSantis spent many millions of taxpayer dollars on cruel stunts like flying migrants who weren’t even in Florida to Martha’s Vineyard, etc., he was resoundingly reelected, in part by winning a majority of votes in Hispanic majority districts, including Miami-Dade, which he won by double digits.
JoyceH
@Mike E: During the election I found it bitterly amusing to hear the white folk arguing that Harris wasn’t “culturally” black. Half-Asian, raised by an Indian mother, blah blah blah. Meanwhile the black women knew that Harris was culturally black. Wasn’t even worth debating. Hey, she always wears a skirt, never a pantsuit, when she goes to a black church. Nuf. Said. (My ignorant old white self didn’t even realize that was a tell, but every black woman did.)
Melancholy Jaques
@Steve LaBonne:
I had the same reaction. For a minute I thought, maybe I’ve been unfair, maybe too uncharitable toward Professor Loomis . . . nah.
But today’s post was good and thought provoking.
Bondo
I would purchase a ”
“I don’t know nothing about nothing.”
WereBear
@Ksmiami: Those late night brainstorming sessions…
“Vance, get into this costume. I’m not going to tell you again. People like the guy we hired to be Real Vance. Want to see the numbers again?”
“Shut up.”
SomeRandomGuy
@Omnes Omnibus: “Do not help Nazis” was stated quite clearly.
“Don’t help ICE” is clear.
Can the cops be de-nazified? I mean, we do know there are some who are literal, 88, 14 words, 45-47, Nazis.
Geminid
@Baud: I debit the high inflation and the damage caused to Federal Reserve policy.
I remember comparing the monthly inflation numbers to the Fed’s rate policy month by month. I don’t have notes handy, but I recall that inflation numbers jumped and stayed high for 5 or six months before the Fed made its first upward adjustment, and I think that one was only a quarter point. It wasn’t long before they were adding half or three quarters of a point at a time.
The problem is that the rates were abnormally low going into this period because the Fed had tried to prevent a pandemic-induced recession, and they succeeded in this with the help of the American Recovery Act.
But low interest rates are like the Fed hitting the economic gas pedal just like high interests rates are like it hitting the brakes. I think a 2.5% Fed rate is about neutral, with no extra gas, no braking.
In this case, the Fed kept its foot on the gas for months after the yellow inflation lights started blinking. When they finally took their foot off the accelerator they slammed on the brakes, and harder than they would have needed to had they been more attentive early on.
High interest rates hurt businesses, and they hurt many more individuals than they help. So politically, Biden was hit with a double whammy: high inflation and high rates. Both have been heading in the right direction in recent months, but it was too little, too late.
Chris
@Ohio Mom:
Nobody actually cares about government debt. It’s far too intangible to affect anyone’s life. At best, they know it’s something they’re “supposed” to care about because of how all the serious people keep talking about it. Kind of like I know I’m “supposed” to boo Darth Vader because he walks through that door in a scary mask and a black robe and immediately strangles a prisoner. And with exactly as much connection to the real world around me.
Dad was posted in Ceaucescu’s Romania and Castro’s Cuba when he worked for the government. The phrase he remembered is that they had a policeman “in every Cuban’s head.”
He also went through a lot of Latin America in the seventies when it was right-wing-military-coup-land, and remembered noting the differences. In the more casual military dictatorships, the soldiers would sort of just strut around in uniforms waving their guns around like gangbangers who wanted you to know this was their turf. The really sophisticated police states are much more unsettling – everything looks normal on the outside, everyone just self-regulates the shit out of themselves.
SomeRandomGuy
@TBone: If he pushes his “big red button, and mine really works!” you better fucking hope there’s no afterlife, because if there’s anything to shamanism, I’m going to haunt the ever living fuck out of yours.
Yeah, I might get over it by then, too, but I wouldn’t take the chance.
Um. That’s what I meant by, “his power is”. Last time I say “that is all” to this fucking crowd. Sorry about the threat, and, hey, if I’m what you’re worried about in the event of nuclear annihilation, I *was* kidding. Though if I can, I’ll try to scare the fuck out of you. If I haven’t already.
Chris
@Suzanne:
I don’t even think this is true. If that had happened, all that changes is that the headlines everywhere for four years are all about the high unemployment, and come 2024, people like FDRLincoln’s coworker are now saying they voted for Trump because he’ll be better for the economy.
Phyllis
Thank you, John. This was brilliant.
SomeRandomGuy
@Chris: No less than Paul Krugman feared the US government was going to take on too much debt, and admitted he was wrong. So there were real fears about it in the past, and there is likely to be some level that’s “too much” debt (especially if a senile pants shitter implements massive tariffs), but we aren’t really close yet, in large part because we borrow in dollars, and blah blah econ. Not even *that* belief is safe any longer. Republicans used to say that you *can’t* count the deficit effect from lowering taxes, because tax cuts are popular.
Um. I think they put the full stop at the position of thate last comma.
SFBayAreaGal
@Renie: Thank you
Chris
@Suzanne:
My observation is that the real rage is towards people who are, in fact, barely scraping by, but that people nevertheless convince themselves are too coddled. Instead of suffering like they should.
(The rage over abortion, incidentally, is great example of this. It’s not about the baby’s life, it’s about the liberal slut avoiding consequences when she should’ve kept her legs closed. If she’d been forced to deal with the consequences and had a baby, that might’ve straightened her life out).
tam1MI
If there is one thing I would say to elected Dems about what they should have done differently, it would be, “You should have stood up for your President instead of defenestrating him at the behest of the New York Times”.
Satya
@Renie: I appreciate the measured advice. But my ‘more conservative’ do you mean bonds? And are you confident in US bonds as you look to the future?
Chris
@Melancholy Jaques:
Jesus. Who the fuck is he and what has he done with Loomis?
SomeRandomGuy
@Suzanne: Um. I don’t see why economists would need to reckon with that – polysci might have to, “is it okay to harm your people and cause excess deaths, because you’ll more easily win re-election?”
I would hope that economists would recognize that there are especially unprecedented circumstances, and wait for, you know, data, rather than mental masturbat… fuck me, Republican economists are reckoning from it right now.
SomeRandomGuy
@Chris: People can change. I’m not saying Loomis did, I’m just saying, they can. And if he is feeling any responsibility for Tuesday, well… I can only say that would make me reconsider my whole world view, so don’t rule out positive change, just, you know, remember.
No Nym
@Nettoyeur: “Deporting 10M in years would require something like 10x the funding because more immigration courts, judges, enforcement staff would have to be set up….and then there is the construction of the essential concentration camps…Destination countries would have to agree to accept ALL deportees.”
But Shitgibbon says money is no object here! It will be fun to laugh and point when this plan fails on multiple fronts, if it does.
SomeRandomGuy
JFC, I just remembered how Chappelle and Rock said “next 8 years are gonna just fly by” in (2016, I assume).
Citizen Alan
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
It’s not about underestimating him. He is every bit as worthless and incompetent as we think. The problem is that we underestimated his unconditional support from people who don’t care how awful he is, so long as they get what they want out of him. We were not defeated by trump. We were defeated by the billionaire class, the right wing christianists, and white supremacy. I said, before the election that even of kamala won and we kept control of congress, we would still have to grapple with the fact that 70 million plus Americans actively desire to live in a fascist white supremacist dictatorship. And there were not enough patriotic americans who were willing to stand up to them or who even acknowledged that they existed.
dr. luba
@rk: They’re planning to denaturalize them.
Steven Miller on Twitter: We started a new denaturalization project under Trump. In 2025, expect it to be turbocharged.
TBone
@SomeRandomGuy: 😆 ooga booga!
My bodily essence is pure, haunt away!
(My maternal family name, Strange, can be traced back to Shakespeare, Lord Strange’s Men, and further back than that.)
We’ll meet again, don’t know where, don’t know when.
Harrison Wesley
@Betty Cracker: And in a state with a very large population of us Olds, Senator Medicare Fraud is going into his second term. After his gubernatorial stint, of course.
SomeRandomGuy
@schrodingers_cat: Maha at mahablog.com disagrees. He’s not really generating cash.
One problem is, the media is clearly neutered, politically. They reported that there was no Trump policy of separating children. There was; they just made sure all their meeting notes said the policy was to prosecute every misdemeanor, and imprison all who committed it. They didn’t even *try* to keep track of the children. I heard-tell some were even adopted.
It’s like, media, you have to be our memory for good or ill, or, don’t call what you’re doing “journalism”.
Do I remember right, was it Schiavo that made Cole jump ship? (I hope it’s okay to say that re: a former ground pounder – though he pounded with more’n boots, if’n I recall)
It was when every decent person should have. They swallowed the lie, liberals want Schiavo to die, when the fucking public records told the truth – the family wanted to drain Terri’s trust fund fits the whole bullshit fiasco than any consideration for her welfare.
Soprano2
@Kathleen: Thanks for that link. I read a book by Andrew Hacker a long time ago called “Two Nations Black and White, Separate Hostile and Unequal”. In it, he predicted what happened this election with Latino men. He said Latinos and Asians would gradually become seen as white, because white isn’t a race it’s an idea, in the same way that the Irish, Italians and other from Europe did the same. He said the only group that would never be able to be seen as “white” was black people, for a variety of reasons. This is probably pretty controversial to say here, but as long as Democrats are seen as the party of black people they will probably struggle like this no matter how popular the policies they advocate are. I’ll come back later to see how much I’ve pissed everyone off.
ETtheLibrarian
I do understand his anger and his impulse. I also understand those that want there to be something that they can point to as abject example, but it does feel like opening the box and what come out can’t be put back
There will be plenty of those without people going out of their way to provide examples.
wenchacha
@Starfish: Shit, I’d even be happy to report Alberto Gonzales, although I think he may have endorsed Harris.
artem1s
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
He will absolutely crash the economy. What his voters and the .01%, GOP regulars and Dem white male race traitors won’t abide is crashing the stock market. Those two things are not the same. He will likely encourage the Freedum Caucus shut down the government after December 20, if saner GOPers and Dems refuse to pass a budget with a bunch of poison pills gutting social security. Of course that will be Biden’s fault.
There are plenty of things he can do to crash the economy for the rest of us (including his voters) that won’t affect the markets immediately. Some will make the markets go up. Ending SS will mean a huge transfer of funds into the market. This mean up, up, up, up just like any other Ponzi scheme. It will take awhile for the spending confidence to impact markets. And the real world lack of dollars to spend is going to catch there too. But it won’t be instantaneous.
If he tries to default on the national debt, or replace the Fed chair with some hack who tries to replace the US dollar with crypto currency and extends FDIC insurance, then we’re going to see a market crash and bank failures like nothing we’ve ever seen before. It will be a world wide depression like nothing we’ve ever seen. But it won’t be instantaneous. The problem will creep up, just like the 2008 housing bubble did until it’s unsustainable to maintain the market without a constant stream of new money. Then we’ll have triple digit post WWI inflation. That’s when it’s going to be FAFO time for the richy rich who are thrilled about their 401Ks today.
VFX Lurker
Same. I’m catching up on this thread now, saw that post, and had to pie on sight.
No Nym
@Chris: “The really sophisticated police states are much more unsettling – everything looks normal on the outside, everyone just self-regulates the shit out of themselves.”
This is a frame of mind that is very familiar to me, as a woman. All my life I have had to rein myself in, play myself down to be acceptable to someone or other, or think about my safety as a factor where men could just glide through without a second thought.
WereBear
@No Nym: Yes. I’m also old enough to fade into the “invisible old woman” compartment. When I want to.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Citizen Alan:
He brought them under his control. He forced everyone of them who even weakly stood up to him to back down and submit. I thought after he was banned from Twitter (prior to Musk) or after Jan 6 or after dozens of things he would weaken. He knew all the right buttons to press and arms to twist to stay relevant and strengthen his base and position. Since 2016, people on the left have consistently mocked, underestimated, and dismissed Trump, including me. I now know I was a fool. It isn’t luck that that’s gotten him here, its skill and cunning.
stacib
@Citizen Alan: I didn’t underestimate his supporters – we knew who they were and they wouldn’t be deterred. I underestimated the support from people who wanted to preserve this democracy and the women who wanted to manage their own healthcare. I just can’t wrap my head around those two groups of people.
Ramalama
I know she’s not everybody’s cup of tea but comedian Kathleen Madigan regularly invokes her defense attorney father. Here’s one example of her talking about him.
She even sells T-shirts that say “I do not recall” and “I need an attorney.” She’s invoked him and the phrase so frequently in her pubcasts, that it’s become a popular item.
Tony G
@FDRLincoln: Back during the Bush Administration I worked with several highly intelligent and superficially “nice” people who were big fans of Bush and of his Iraq war. I’d bet my bottom dollar that these people voted for Trump for the third time on Tuesday. It’s tribal, I guess.
LAC
@Mr. Bemused Senior: @schrodingers_cat
Throwing in my support as well. Do not let the the tone setters tell you how to say things. I deeply appreciate your input.
Chris
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
It’s a “I only need to know one important thing” kind of thing.
Well, two things.
One: as long as he’s got the market cornered on the far right, the political system will pretty much let him do anything he wants. For decades and decades and decades, basically every institution in politics – even the Democratic Party isn’t immune to this – has run on the principle of “both sides do it, but liberals are worse.” The rich may be worried about their finances, but they can’t simply back those insane socialist liberals. The justice system may be worried about his brazen criminality, but they can’t simply back those insane cop-hating liberals. The media may have some qualms about the way he treats them, but they can’t just stop covering for conservatives and putting their thumb on the scale against liberals. It’s just not done. So if he stands his ground, ninety percent of the time, the system will whine and wring its hands and complain, but it’ll acquiesce in the end.
Two: to keep the market cornered on the far right (i.e. the Republican voter base), all you need to know is be as racist, sexist, and otherwise prejudiced as you want, and never back down from it. No one cares about economics: promise socialized health care if you have to, promise the end of Medicare if you have to. No one cares about foreign policy: promise World War Three if you have to, promise peace in our time if you have to. As long as you don’t back down on the bigot thing, you won’t lose a single Republican vote.
VFX Lurker
@schrodingers_cat: You’re one of the reasons I read the B-J comment section. I value your thoughts.
evodevo
@JoyceH:
Yep..https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/07/31/634442195/when-the-u-s-government-tried-to-replace-migrant-farmworkers-with-high-schoolers
K-Mo
@The Audacity of Krope: I don’t value abuse. Or to be more accurate, I give it a very negative value.
Trivia Man
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: and competent allies (hi vladimir! And turtle mitch with the stolen supreme court that was essential.)
The Audacity of Krope
@K-Mo: I don’t mean literally every individual. I promise you anyone who is abusive toward a blog-approved target will draw an Amen chorus on here.
As of yesterday, that seems to include Latinos and union members. As of July, that includes old folk.
Republicans aren’t the only ones who can take offense at others pointing out their bigotry and other assorted ignorance. Y’all need to get the bigotry here under control.
schrodingers_cat
PodSave Bros and Nancy Pelosi are twisting the knife into Joe Biden again
Ksmiami
@Satya: Japan and ftse etfs. I’m looking for other havens, but I spoke with my BIG FINANCE connections in NY and they are all staying in the market for what it’s worth. Sad historic note, the German stock market actually thrived under NAZISM until the country got crushed by the allies. So take that as a subtle warning.
stacib
@schrodingers_cat: I think (know) the Democratic party totally underestimated how pissed off Black folks were when they turned on Biden, and how many pledged to never vote for Democrats again. Fear for my granddaughter’s future healthcare is what changed my mind – for many folks they were flat out done. They all professed to the high heavens to love the guy, and at the first opportunity, they turned on him. I have no idea how large that number is, but going by people I know, it could be substantial.
catclub
Of course, Trump’s weren’t.
Kay
75% of US farm workers are undocumented.
US agriculture, and food supply, would completely collapse if we lost those workers.
It’s just amazing to me there’s zero analysis of this – apparently we’re not going to discuss this at all and the Americans who just threw a temper tantrum because their grocery bills went up 19% are in charge.
I knew we were going to be an authoritarian country with a cult leader but is anyone even going to try to explain to coddled, pampered, childish Americans that immigrants literally feed them?
Ksmiami
@stacib: and now we all fall together.
Ksmiami
@Kay: because the nyt et al would rather spend time in Ohio diners trying to understand poor widdle aging mediocre white men who feel disrespected .
Prometheus Shrugged
@dr. luba: The scary part for my wife (a naturalized citizen from one of the “s-hole” countries in Africa) is that, even if her deportation is practically and legally impossible, all it takes is one immigration officer who thinks they’re just following orders to make her life a living hell when re-entering the U.S. after traveling abroad. We’ve already experienced that phenomenon in limited doses (and so try to be properly prepared for it now after painful experience) but are now expecting the troubles to ratchet up exponentially.
We are extremely fortunate that we have several different possible landing spots if Steven Miller and his ethnic cleansing pals come calling. But it’s nearly inconceivable to me and overwhelmingly distressing that the situation has come to this.
Kay
@Ksmiami:
Its bullshit. These people spend a months worth of grocery money on elaborate Halloween decorations while telling me they can’t afford food.
We’re coddled, pampered whiners. I honestly would rather spend time with migrant workers. They’re adults.
Kay
@Ksmiami:
They’ve created an entirely new gift-giving event – Halloween. They now buy “boo baskets” which is 50 dollars worth of Dollar Tree shit in a basket.
These are the same people who insist they can’t afford a dozen eggs on social media.
They were poorly raised. They spend too much and they spend it on worthless garbage that will be in a landfill in 3 months.
Chris
@Kay:
I know that talking about this is as much a political killer in today’s world as proposing gay marriage would have been in the 1950s, but this is why it’s absolutely insane that, if not open borders, something pretty close to it, is completely off the table.
People keep wringing their hands about how horrifying it is that Democrats have no voice in the rural areas and especially the farm areas. And pining about the good old days of prairie radicalism in the late nineteenth/early twentieth century. You know who the constituency for that kind of radicalism was? Farm workers and tenant farmers, who were, to a stupendous extent, also immigrants! It’s just that back then, they actually had a voice, because we hadn’t passed all those laws yet saying that immigrants couldn’t come here legally without a kafkaesque amount of red tape.
You want a liberal constituency in the farm states, go out into the avocado fields and learn to speak a lot of Spanish, then go to Washington and figure out how you’re going to make those people have a vote again.
But instead all we hear about is this New York Times interview with the boss who owns the farm, or that Washington Post interview with the small town banker who owns the lease on the farm. As if that’s somehow going to bring us back in touch with the rural working class. Those guys weren’t on our side in the 1890s, and surprise surprise, they’re not on our side today.
Chris
@Ksmiami:
Heh. I posted before I saw your Ohio Diner comment, I swear.
Chris
@Kay:
I remember living on a budget for years during the funemployment and funderemployent of the Great Recession. Often to the point of literally having three bucks left in my account come pay day. This is… not that.
And the sheer specificity just pisses me off. It’s not “groceries are too expensive,” it’s “eggs are too expensive.” Maybe they are; I haven’t tried to buy any in a little while. But I’m familiar with the concept of living on a budget and suddenly seeing an item go up because of whatever the fuck happened in the supply chain. If you really are under great economic stress, have you considered, you know, eating something else until the prices snap back? This isn’t fucking insulin. Nobody’s going to die because they had to go three months without a Spanish omelet.
dc
@schrodingers_cat: Yes, blame Joe, damn these people! And they are supposedly our allies! Maybe if Dems had rallied around Joe instead of bending to pundits and actors, we would have won this election. We will never know. What we don’t need are these Dem leaders coming out to crap on Joe and Kamala. Biden has been a great president, especially for all the idiots spending big $$ on Halloween decorations and complaining that eggs cost an amount that is not true (I buy my eggs at Whole Foods for Pete’s sake, only the most organic, happy, free, pampered chicken eggs cost $6/dozen).
Quiltingfool
I have been thinking about the authoritarian governments, like Russia, etc. Do they allow their citizens unfettered access to guns? Heavens no, silly rabbit.
So if America is rapidly on the road to authoritarian governance, don’t you think someone in Trump’s circle hasn’t thought about all the millions of weapons in the hands of its citizens? Maybe not now, but they might get the idea that gun ownership isn’t a good idea.
I know, the forces that could be deployed by the feds (drone strike, black helicopters) are far more powerful than even the military guns civilians have, but…
2nd Amendment folks may not have thought that through.
K-Mo
@Melancholy Jaques: It’s a great piece but I think he goes too far on the “let’s do popular policies even when we know they are bad policies.” You have to choose that stuff wisely or you’re being irresponsible.
K-Mo
@Melancholy Jaques: It’s a great piece but I think he goes too far on the “let’s do popular policies even when we know they are bad policies.” You have to choose that stuff wisely or you’re being irresponsible.
Prescott Cactus
The five stages of grief are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.
You can / will process them in any order and the time it takes to work through each step varies.
Thanks Elisabeth Kübler-Ross ! ! !
Soonergrunt
But I’ll add one caveat:
In some jurisdictions, Utah being one of them, you are required by statute to give your name to law enforcement when asked. I don’t know about other states, but here, you need only give your name. You are not required to comply further than that. You do not have to give your address or anything else unless it’s a traffic stop and the officer asks for your Driver’s license.
KNOW THE LAW.
Kayla Rudbek
@opiejeanne: bear/pepper spray is apparently better as you don’t need to be that close to use it, unlike a knife.
Gvg
@stacib: and this result helped them how? They have had Allies disappoint them before. So have others. And it wasn’t the whole democratic party, just some. I could argue that the party is more theirs than anyone else’s and they are a lot of the leadership now.
From reports it now looks like one of the ones who wanted Biden to step down was Obama whom Biden was loyal to. I am pretty upset about that myself and also angry at Pelosi. That still makes it too dangerous for any black voter to abandon the Democratic Party and Harris. In fact it means they need to get even more control, not less.
Well those are the arguments I would make to a non voter which isn’t you. I have heard some similar speculation from black coworkers. They did resent it but still voted.
Soapdish
@TBone: I would pay hard money to listen to to the Christmas album by the Trans Librarian Orchestra
ken
@Hunter Gathers: they are not getting rid of the department of education. read the education section of project 2025. they will not dismantle well established systems that have access to every aspect of k-12 education of American children. they will use it insidiously. why start from scratch?
Msb
@WereBear:
only in hindsight. In real time, THEY might have been unemployed.
Also, John, you are 100% right.
As to “grey rocking”, which I need to find out more about, I’ve been doing it, accidentally perfectly sincerely, with my trumpy cousin: I’ve ceased responding to his provocations, in part because I came to understand that the lack of an outraged response takes the fun out of it for him. Not hearing from him as much, thank God.
AM in NC
@Steve LaBonne: Yeah, that is frustrating AF. We have such a serious infotainment system problem.