I’m not the hopium peddler on this blog, as regular readers know, but I want to offer an observation about the Republican party in 2024.
If you believe, as I think most of you do, that they tell lies in service of the rich so the agenda of the rich can be enacted, then the logical conclusion is that Trump will be curbed when the rich don’t like what he’s doing.
So, in this case, where the normally retrograde Abbott should be spitting fire about how the deportations start on January 21, he’s dissembling: talking about the time it will take ICE to get funding, etc., etc. This is a guy who deployed the National Guard to the border to lay razor wire. He fucking knows that was all theater, but if the crops don’t get picked and the cattle die because he deports the migrants who do the work, he’s in a shitpot of trouble with his rich supporters.
Similarly, does anyone think that Pfizer, Novartis and the rest are going to sit still for RFK Jr as Secretary of HHS? Vaccines are incredibly profitable. Plus, putting a bunch of fuckhead play docs on TV in charge of the FDA is a big problem for them. They might not love the FDA’s oversight, but they certainly don’t want to go through a bunch of brand-damaging nonsense that will follow from the FDA approving coffee enemas or crystals at the same time it approves their new statin. (You may argue that Trump hurt them already with his anti-vax COVID response, and he did, but there’s a big gap between that one instance and a complete meltdown at the FDA.)
I’m also skeptical about tariffs to the degree that Trump has babbled about on the stump, for similar reasons — the global supply chain is interconnected and tariffs will fuck up corporate supply chains.
This is not to say that there won’t be deportation — there will and it will be ugly. This is not to say that he won’t appoint a moron to run the FDA, but a certain kind of moron, not RFK the lesser. And there will definitely be some kind of tariffs.
So, a lot of bad things are going to happen, but I think it’s a mistake not to consider the interests of the rich donors in the way this whole thing is going to shake out.
Baud
May logistics save us.
trollhattan
@Baud: I understand Louis DeJoy is a logistics professional.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@trollhattan:
More accurate.
West of the Rockies
Will dweeb Abbot start bussing immigrants to other red states now? Will DePinhead
Also, RFK The (Much) Lesser.
Chris Johnson
This is why I’m very interested in Thiel’s intentions, and Putin’s intentions.
‘cos since this is a form of war to cement the ruble as the world reserve currency (China laughs in yuan, but we’re talking old madmen here), the wishes of the wealthy Americans might possibly not matter at this stage. Apparently they were already fraying, drifting to Harris as the status quo keeper. Trump does not give a fuck about them, he hates them because he’s always been a fake rich guy. So that’s two kings who might just want to flip the table. Old kings who may know they’re dying.
Thiel does NOT NOT NOT want to die. He’s notable for that. But Thiel is also a Dark Enlightenment guy, so he is interested in crazy radical table flippage, but with a longer timeframe than the old kings. But he’s not going to have loyalty to the USA, or to any other wealthy people.
Musk is on drugs: doesn’t count. He doesn’t do as much as people think, he’s in admin and always has been.
Whether the wealthy people can affect anything depends not on whether they can pressure their state’s Congresspeople, it depends on whether Putin wants to go for broke and smash the US completely, and it depends on whether Thiel has a way to roll that into his Dark Enlightenment fantasy. That’s hard to parse. Thiel doesn’t believe in democracy at all, but he’s a functioning businessman and less swayed by the need for attention that Trump and Musk have.
The bottom line of all this as war, is that the sabotage is on purpose: and, we have crypto creeps looking to do radical things, so the dollar is certainly at risk. And rightly so, there aren’t many ways in which this all works out with the US coming off as strong and reliable.
Nukular Biskits
Can’t say as I disagree with anything you’ve said there, mistermix.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Anybody wanting a thorough understanding of what the Orange Fart Cloud can and cannot do vis a vis tariffs:
https://www.csis.org/analysis/making-tariffs-great-again-does-president-trump-have-legal-authority-implement-new-tariffs
p.a
Fire up the liberal bots to flood the hateweb with: tRump betrays the base!
kindness
The Republicans running Texas always seem to top themselves, yet they continue to have MAGA cred. I’m beginning to believe the only thing MAGA they really mean is hurting Democrats.
Nukular Biskits
@kindness:
It’s always about ownin’ the libs.
Well, that and making the rich even richer.
chemiclord
There’s gonna be ENOUGH deportations to keep everyone scared. There’s going to be ENOUGH disruption to keep people on edge, not ANGRY but worried.
Because a scared and fretting population is one that doesn’t challenge those in power.
eemom
Excellent points. Follow the money, as always
eta: great headline too.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Chris Johnson:
I’ll give you the answer for Congresspeople — fuck yes what rich people say will matter. Money, and the raising of it, rules their world, unless they’re a celeb like MTG, Boebert and the rest. Also, it’s fine to do something that fucks up someone else’s district, but they are going to eat shit if their votes can be tied to bad effects. Politics ain’t dead yet.
Chet Murthy
@kindness: they don’t even mean to hurt Democrats: they mean to hurt -poor- Democrats. The well-off Dems, we’re going to do just -fine-. Hell, for us, the smart, cynical, immoral play was to live in a Blue jurisdiction and pile that sweet, sweet low-taxes money. Sure, we have to pile up enough so that if one of our female relatives falls pregnant, we can afford to send ’em to live in Canada for the gestation. Or Europe. Ditto for abortions. But really, why vote for anybody besides the goddamn G(r)OPers? Why vote to impoverish yourself?
Yes, I’m bitter. Really, really bitter. But I shouldn’t be! I should look at my 401k and fucking rejoice!
@mistermix.bsky.social
@chemiclord:
Yep, agreed. Also expect Trump to pick fights with blue state governors who don’t let his deportation stormtroopers round up migrants, all for the benefit of rw media. I’m sure Abbott is already telling Trump’s people to go pick on Colorado or New Mexico…
sab
Sorry but Novartis was already well into offshoring their US operations. Long before this election. They didn’t like Biden dragging on US taxpayers funding worldwide drug companies research here and only here. We finance it and everyone else benefits.
Betsy
So basically we’ll get a big helping of neoliberalism with our christofascism.
I mean, I’ll take it …
Jay
A lot of small and medium sized MFGR’s are already “chasing inventory”. Key imported or import reliant parts and materials that are likely to be subject to tariffs. They are trying to accumulate 2 years worth of inventory, because they are certain that tariffs will happen and will not be dropped until “the pig squeals”.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Chet Murthy:
You have a moral compass and sense of empathy for (some) of your fellow citizens.
Basically, the opposite of IGMFY.
It’s one thing that differentiates Democrats from the other side.
Layer8Problem
Speaking of
logisticslogicians: Gödel’s Loophole, or, is the US Constitution booby-trapped? I dunno, maybe, but it might take a bit of work probably more easily done with our Supreme Court sanctioned “It’s ok if it’s done by a [Republican] president” method.Xavier
Hey but tax cuts for rich people are something everyone can get behind!
Layer8Problem
@Chet Murthy: “Yes, I’m bitter. Really, really bitter. But I shouldn’t be! I should look at my 401k and fucking rejoice!”
Yeah, I got one of those too. But this clever tariff stuff isn’t exactly giving me the warm and fuzzies.
Mathguy
In a lot of ways it’s been the typical Republican scumbaggery on issues–up to the election the US is about to go into the shitter. If they win, all of those problems disappear of the radar because MOAR TAX CUTS!
Chet Murthy
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: A moral compass is stupid and definitely superfluous in these times. We are surrounded (and clearly not in the majority). The smart move is to be a free-rider, and I just can’t get over the bitterness that this is what we’re reduced to.
I had -such- hopes that white women would rise up and throw off their shackles. Such hopes that Latinos would do the same. Instead they demanded, demanded with raised voice and raised fists, to be manacled, handcuffed to their toil, their torture racks. And what really, really pisses me off, is that I can sit here in safe San Francisco, surrounded by miles and miles of Asian-Americans, and am pretty safe.
How can they have been so stupid? How? I feel like howling at the moon or something. Just -screaming-.
And again, the worst part is that in the end, I’ll probably profit from their absolutely imbecilic lack of the barest shred of self-interest.
Nukular Biskits
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I know I’m sounding like a broken record AND like a certain anti-Christian troll who used (?) to frequent here but that’s one of the things that absolutely infuriates me about the God-botherers who regularly air their “sincerely-held religious convictions” but who also supported Trump.
With echoes of the “No True Scotsman”, there is absolutely no justifiable, logical way these people could reconcile their supposed beliefs with their support for Trump.
IOW, they’re liars.
Chet Murthy
@Layer8Problem: I’m already looking at funds that invest in Europe. True, there’ll be a worldwide recession. But we’ll bear the worst of it, b/c we’ll have the most mismanagement.
NobodySpecial
If there’s any hope, it’s that the CFO’s and financial people are good at telling their corporate bosses that destroying everything will cause a huge loss for the companies as people pull back from discretionary spending. None of the CEO’s want to get kicked to the curb for being destroyed in the balance sheet AND losing their stock option bonuses therein.
Ksmiami
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: maybe the play is for everyone to just make as much money as possible and fund charities that can bring about a better society
bjacques
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: if you have an IRA and it’s performing well, you can drop that into the conversation when some MAGA is ranting in your grill, especially if you know they’re not well off financially themselves. They want liberals to be suffering and poor; it will eat their ass if you’re neither. Under Trump 1, a lot of IRAs did okay until the pandemic hit.
Nukular Biskits
@NobodySpecial:
I agree … but, at the same time, if there is no pain, there will be lessons learned. Or the WRONG lessons will be learned.
The problem is, those who don’t deserve the pain will be sharing in it if not experiencing it more than the asshats who voted for Trump.
Steve LaBonne
I like to think that some dark ugly semblance of sanity will prevail, but we just don’t know yet, and the historical precedents are on the whole not too favorable. We will know soon enough.
Bobby Thomson
Trump isn’t ideological. He’s transactional. The highest bidder (to him personally, let’s get real) wins.
Chris Johnson
@@mistermix.bsky.social: Absolutely. The rich can pressure Congress. The point I raise is more that, with a position of total immunity and a willingness to ditch the Constitution, those behind Trump might be angling for an Underpants Gnome end-game:
1: delete the Constition
2: fire all of Congress! Both sides. This is marginally easier if the Republicans balk Trump because they’re pressured by rich people.
3: ???
The thing is this is a STUPID notion. It desperately relies on a willingness by all involved to follow the rules and norms even as they’re twisted into an origami statue of a dick and then used until rendered unreadable. It assumes people will BUY that, and that the willing populace will hold the now-fired Congresspeople to it, purely on their fealty to Trump. And then there’s no plan after that, it’s just a bust-out.
My point being we can’t necessarily depend upon normalcy in Congress answering to the rich and then pressuring Trump. I don’t know if he’ll play that game this time. Their role is predictable and you’re right about it.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Deportation will allow the administration to target anyone who troubles them.
Bobby Thomson
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: “legal authority” That’s cute
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Nukular Biskits:
I use the term “lying sacks of shit”.
Tomato/Tomahtoh
Jay
@NobodySpecial:
Generally interested at what happens to a society, that buys everything from Walmart, Amazon and Temu realizes what happens when there is a 60% tariff on goods made in China.
NobodySpecial
@Nukular Biskits: There will be pain either way now. I prefer palliative treatments rather than root-and-branch, since current people suffering is not my bag.
Kristine
I saw mention in a few pre-election articles that companies were already planning price increases to cover expected tariffs if Trump won. I wonder if they’ll set them aside, or just go ahead and implement them?
I mean, Elon already warned us about two years of pain.
tobie
At some level I have to say this infuriates me. So many people voted for Trump because Fox News and their social media feed convinced them that immigrants were the greatest danger to them personally and to the American way of life. What venal, god-damned rubes. Of course, now they’ll celebrate whatever the Orange Turd does because the Orange Turd does it.
Realworldrj
@Baud: 3 cheers … that we don’t have a good mass transit system
Archon
The age of care bears liberalism is over. People need to feel pain. It is what it is.
Steve LaBonne
@NobodySpecial: What you said. There will be plenty of pain despite anything we can do to ameliorate it. It would be immoral to hope for it to be worse.
Chet Murthy
@Archon: We’ve done everything we could to help people in Red States. It’s time for them to help themselves. If that involves AR-15s and guerilla warfare, that is only what the Lord has willed, I guess. B/c it’s clear that nothing we can do will help the situation.
Ksmiami
@Jay: look at the 1970s for your answers
Jay
@Kristine:
Tariffs will impact immediately, even if the inventory you are making stuff from, or reselling, is pre tariff. 66% immediate short term profits.
twbrandt
The internecine warfare between the various factions in Trumpworld will be vicious. It will be entertaining, if nothing else.
Prescott Cactus
It’s all about big biz. Follow the money.
S&P 500 is up 4.72% this week
NASDAQ is up 5.85 this week
SomeRandomGuy
He can do a fuckload, without congressional approval, and would they really risk the aftermath of a 25th Amendment solution?
I’m sorry – that is almost, word for word, the way Germans would have comforted themselves. He will run into *some* boundaries, sure, but he can threaten people with a lot, and Republicans already proved they have no honor, so, they’ll follow along like good little sheep. They might even say, they’re there to curb his worst impulses, which, again, is exactly the thing German folks said to themselves after Hitler’s election. Strangely, the Final Solution happened.
Remember: he could start firing nukes. We already know he’ll betray our country to Russia. We already know he’ll betray our country to the Taliban (force protection required: 4k Trump said “make due with 2500”). We already know he’ll betray Kurdish troops who worked with our military, breaking all of the promises made to them, if he gets a phone call from Turkey.
And yet, the Republican Party is now the party of riding the fucking lion, and I hope leopards eat their faces, because the leopard and lion would fight over the corpse and… oh, wait, is this going to become a “liberals are violent” thing? You do realize, it’s not a literal lion, “conservatives”? And there’s an old joke, and, it’s actually funny: members of the leopards-eating-faces party, see, they all think no leopard could ever eat *their* face. If your party does evil, it splashes everywhere.
Where was I? Right. Seriously, the joke about riding the lion is DON’T LET GO, and, well, that’s where Republicans really are. One step out of line, lots of bad things could happen.
zhena gogolia
Thanks mistermix for this analysis
bjacques
By the way, if you can’t join the general strike on January 6 that T-Bone mentioned earlier, you can always work stupid, like Good Soldier Schweik, or even engage in a little light sabotage like in the pamphlet the CIA dropped into Nicaragua during the Sandinista years. The latter doesn’t necessarily have to be at your workplace. It may not amount to much but it might be good therapy.
hrprogressive
Stuff like this is why I took a side eye at the Dave Troy stuff yesterday.
A lot of “Would overlook Fascism but like profit” conservatives now have to grapple with the concept that the Fascists actually elected may not actually give a shit about their profits unless they are made to.
Greg Abbott and other vile ideologues who aren’t complete morons may well start to take this “Well, you see…” sorts of lines on stuff.
I am not about to hold my breath that this sort of thing might help stop some of the worst stuff from actually happening, but I would not be super surprised if it at least materially delays or mitigates some of it.
Bill Arnold
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Yeah, there will be tariffs, heavy handed tariffs, and there will be grotesquely corrupt carve outs for cronies/supporters, and tariffs quite clearly intended to punish some enemies of Trump and his henchmen, to serve as examples for the others.
Businesses will have to decide whether to lay low politically. It will be a very easy decision for nearly all of them.
There will be enough tariffs to fuck many sectors of the economy, though, and consumers. Trump declared that [the word] “tariffs” is “the most beautiful word” too many times on the stump to back down on them.
cmorenc
Trump will definitely follow through deporting a huge number of immigrants, in as cruel and showy fashion as Stephen Miller can think up. But I agree that the business and ag community will likely exert enough pressure on Trump to slow or halt it far below the fever dreams of Miller or hard-core MAGA nativists, because of the risks of triggering a recession and inflation.
But will they also be able to talk Trump down from what he doubtless thinks is his brilliant idea to create a favorable foreign trade / American manufacturing balance with high tariffs – thereby creating a revenue stream that will be large enough to enable ending the income tax? And persuade him quickly enough to back off far enough on the idea before it triggers an inflationary recession?
Since the most likely path to re-taking the federal government over the ‘26 and ‘28 elections by the Ds is via his policies creating widespread economic hardship, it is temping to root for injuries from Trump pushing these two things too far, even though we and our neighbors will feel the pain and many will get badly hurt economically.
The Audacity of Krope
CVS and Walgreens falsified a crime wave with their friends in the media. Seems they should become targets of just such a wave, they owe it to the American people.
Xantar
@cmorenc: I understand the reluctance to hoping for a recession so that we can win again in ‘26, but if Trump and the Republicans are willing to kill a bipartisan border deal because they don’t want Democrats to get credit, then I say we can repay them in kind. We don’t even have to spike a bill.
It’s not exactly moral, but this election has convinced me that the first order of business is to do whatever we have to do in order to win. Then we can worry about doing good for the people.
The Audacity of Krope
I attribute the loss to this precise mindset, so YMMV.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
Politics is never dead. Not even in totalitarian regimes. It just goes underground and becomes increasingly erratic and unpredictable, not having stable, rational institutions to run thru.
There is a bit in Ian Kershaw’s biography of Hitler about how at one point Der Fuehrer had to take time out from micro-managing the Eastern Front (which was kind of important) to arbitrate over some silly dispute between feuding Nazi bigwigs about whether during the crux of the war it was OK or not to still allow horse racing and betting, and which Gau would be allowed to keep open how many race tracks and whether that was not fair to the other Gau next door with a lesser number.
Anonymous at Work
I deal in biomedical research and the FDA is big effing deal internationally. FDA approval is the gold standard but the EU could overtake it. Which would mean U.S. companies investing in Europe to test rather than European companies spending serious money testing here, for FDA approval.
The only saving grace is that TFG probably realizes that RFK is more crazy than grifter.
Sally
When baby bush threatened to deport “illegals” during that regime, Perdue in GA initiated a few raids on farms and processing plants. People were rounded up. Then, a lot of workers left the state, many for CA. A neighbour, pig farmer, complained bitterly that no one wanted to work (I did reply, Free Market, have you tried higher wages and better conditions). I read in the AJC that crops were being left in the fields to rot. A tomato farmer complained he had to get his grandkids picking tomatoes to get any crop to sell. My heart bled. My point is (sorry), workers, documented or otherwise, will be scared and head for “safe haven” states. And the morons will once again bleat that no one wants to work.
Workers won’t wait to be rounded up and put in cages.
Businesses are already preparing for tariffs in the same way. Not waiting to be bankrupted.
dww44
@tobie: I’m more than angry I’m furious. So furious that I’m now focusing that anger on democratic elites for not figuring out that we long ago needed to create an aggressive in your face liberal counter to conservative media that has our fellow citizens brainwashed into believing we are the evil ones. And now we got Trump and his evilness on steroids.
schrodingers_cat
@Betsy: Biden practiced Keynesian economics but got zero credit for it from people who call any economic policy they don’t like neoliberalism.
schrodingers_cat
@tobie: The anti-immigrant sentiment among the Rs has been strong since W’s administration.
The Audacity of Krope
@schrodingers_cat: Elected officials primarily associated with the left of the party were the only people with enough integrity to stand up for Biden, but they get no credit from curmudgeonly extreme centrist cranks.
SomeRandomGuy
@chemiclord: One meme about fascism that’s important to keep in mind, is, part of fascism is making you the bad guy. Florida wants to perp walk some librarians, if they have to. They want you to report on the teachers who allowed the students 5 minutes of rap session on homosexuality. They want you scared to disobey, and, scared to fail to report.
Once “failure to report” is a crime, that’s “literal shithole nation” time. Oh, they might start by saying it’s only *certain* crimes, but then the list of crimes for which it’s justified expands.
citizen dave
Our nation is now living in a Kafka and/or Orwell novel. It’s all theater.
citizen dave
@dww44: Fuckin’ A
SomeRandomGuy
@Archon: People will feel pain – but we can’t turn off our hearts. That said, god damn it, maybe the bad guys need to torch a house with citizens in it, to get at the immigrants, before people see “holy shit, the dirty fucking hippies were right.”
Chet Murthy
@dww44: With respect and in solidarity with your feeling, I still don’t understand how that could work. There’s a reason conservative media works: getting people angry and scared works to keep them clicking, and you can sell them to advertisers. But that wouldn’t happen on a liberal network: how do you keep people angry and afraid ? The bogeymen would be precisely the same people (the wealthy, the powerful) to whom you wish to sell this audience for ads.
I don’t see how it works.
Chet Murthy
@SomeRandomGuy: For years, every time somebody says “vulnerable people need to -leave- Red States, they need to -leave-“, the plaint has been “but some of those people are too poor to do it”. And how we have the response to that plaint: and it is: “there is no alternative”. There. Is. No. Alternative.
We’ve tried the method of civil action, of trying to get enough votes. We tried so, so goddamn hard. And what we got for it, was a massive conservative backlash. Even in urban cores, the conservatives got big percentage movement towards them. So there is no way in which we can help these people. Like any other refugee, they need to get themselves out of those jurisdictions.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Bobby Thomson: Yep. He will flip policies on a dime if it isn’t benefiting him
dww44
@Chet Murthy: I live in a county in a red state that went 60% for Harris. I think the Trump problem is not confined to the south. Neither is racism or misogyny.
Chris
@tobie:
And this is how you know that they were not, in fact, convinced that immigrants were an existential threat.
They want to assault and brutalize immigrants. They say what they have to to make themselves sound like the victims, but they don’t really believe it. Like 100% of what comes out of Trump’s mouth, it’s not a lie per se, or a truth, it’s just… bullshit.
KatKapCC
In addition to everything else, I also have to get used to having two male Senators in CA. Weird. I mean, they’re both good. But it’s weird.
Ohio Mom
I don’t know if anyone addressed this, I’m skipping to the end. Most everything in the post makes sense — big companies have interests they will be sure are taken care of.
But rich people don’t care about my issues: Social Security, Traditional Medicare, as well as Medicaid and the Medicaid Waivers program.
No big interest group there, unless you count AARP. The disability community depends on those program, they are absolute lifelines, but we aren’t much of an interest group, despite our national organizations.
The one exception is the part of Medicaid that pays for nursing homes, big companies like that income stream.
The Audacity of Krope
This. In its entirety. I hadn’t even looked at it that way before.
Don’t think this is the only place where I’ve had some choice words for some people. A couple IRL folks are gonna get a nice earful of the new perspective you bestowed upon me.
Chet Murthy
@dww44: “in a county in a red state that went 60% for Harris”
I assume you mean that your county went 60% for Harris. Yes, that isn’t enough: you need to be in a state (or for small states, a -region-) that is Blue. And yes, there’s racism and misogyny everywhere. But if you’re in a place that’s big and Blue, it’s going to be safer. Again I come back to my key learning from this election: there’s nothing we can -do-, that we can -actually do- to alleviate the suffering of people in Red states. There’s nothing we can do.
Powerlessness is never fun. But we have to be realistic about what we can accomplish. I’ve never spent a red cent on elections in California. But until/unless I leave the country, that has to become a priority. That’s what I’m saying: no more pretending that somehow we can save the rest of the country.
ETA: there’s something I remember from Government class: states have a status in the Constitution. Everything below the level of states is purely a construct of the State, and can be erased by the State. Counties? Cities? Pfft. They have no governmental/political status if the governor can control the lege. He can crush them.
SomeRandomGuy
@NobodySpecial: If your plan requires the once and future jerk wad to come to understanding something, it’s doomed. And I think tariffs are one thing he can impose by fiat, claiming it to be national security.
If you think the money boys will get their influence felt through other channels, so Congress expressly sets tariffs back to the old levels (which I assume they can do), well, remember, he has to sign it, and if you don’t think Repubs will pork the (ahem) stuffing out of the bill, assuming dems *have* to go along, or “boo hoo, people will suffer!” so they can’t get to veto-proof votes, though it would still nominally be bipartisan (because people *would* suffer) you must have been watching a different set of Republican congress critters than I.
Obviously, there’s more than tariffs – but again ,anything he can do via fiat, it doesn’t matter, he thinks he’s the smartest person in the room. Still.
Nukular Biskits
@dww44:
Agreed.
But, down here, racism and misogyny are “traditional conservative values”, passed down generations.
Omnes Omnibus
@Chet Murthy:
States have constitutions as well.
Darkrose
@KatKapCC: Huh…that is kind of weird, now that you mention it.
Chet Murthy
@Nukular Biskits: This post: https://lbjvantagepoint.com/the-white-house-tapes/f/your-guide-to-survival-in-texas-because-you-live-there-now
“Your Guide to Survival in Texas, Because You Live There Now”
reminded me of all the shitty, shitty things I hated about Texas. Yes, the racism, misogyny, oligarchy, the petty-ass neofeudalism, that’s all Texas. That’s -soooo- Texas.
Chris
@The Audacity of Krope:
I read Hannah Arendt a long time ago when totalitarianism seemed t9 be getting relevant (wasn’t even Trump yet at the time, just the teabaggers). The quote from her that stayed with me the most is “they’re not saying what they actually believe is true; they’re saying what would have to be true to justify the things they already wanted to do.”
Once you see it that way, a ton of the absurdities right wingers spout falls into place.
dww44
@Chet Murthy: It doesn’t have to be an angry liberal network. It needs to rebut in real time their lies and misinformation in a succinct, clear, firm and entertaing manner. Think multiple Mayor Petes. It would be nice if a couple of wealthy oligarchs helped to get this off the ground.
Nukular Biskits
@Chet Murthy:
61% of MS voters went for Trump. If I’m not mistaken, no other state gave that level of approval for the asshole.
IOW, MS sez, “Hold muh beer!”
Me & Ms Biskits are talking about moving as soon as I can retire.
Chet Murthy
@dww44: Nobody’s going to watch Mayor Pete clearly, calmly, [insert your favorite +++ adverb here] elucidate the liberal case. Nobody. I’m sorry, but there’s a reason Fox News is the #1 cable “news” network. Maybe you could build what you’re looking for out of a series of comedy shows — that might work. But we already have that, and it hasn’t achieved the effect we need, so …..
I think it’s simply that we can’t deliver our message along with the fear+anger required to really stick.
Baud
@Nukular Biskits:
You sure OK and TN didn’t go more red than that?
SomeRandomGuy
@The Audacity of Krope: Wow. No offense, I’m surprised everyone doesn’t know this. Trump only speaks the truth by accident; even if it’s good, he’ll swear it was better than it really was.
@Ohio Mom: I belonged to a group that would sometimes say “I seeble you greatly” to imply, what you said hit home so hard, “I” feel like I’m your sibling for the moment. I don’t use the term myself, but it’s precisely appropriate.
(Why not? It was an in-joke, and it also seemed too warm and loving, from a group ready to savage you if you make a mistake, and, too *personal*. “Sibling? What exactly does that mean? Am I being stalked? Sorry – dumping data happens when I’m too tired to edit, but still care enouh to write. )
Chet Murthy
@Nukular Biskits: they say “Texas isn’t a Red state; it’s a voter suppression state”. And I feel like the real way to put it is “Texas is a tyranny.” How do we help Texans? They live under an autocracy. Either we’re ready to wage literal war on them, or we have to let them go their own way. Because this “let’s vote and help them like that” clearly isn’t working.
gratuitous
So in the realm of verbal counterpunching, is it useful to remind the felon’s supporters about his myriad promises? Will they remember what he promised? Will they care that he broke his promises? I presume no small percentage of the felon’s voters did so on the basis of one promise or another. Do we promote those broken promises? Is there a risk that by pointing out those broken promises, the felon will be spurred to do even worse than he promised? I don’t like that possibility, but how great a possibility is it?
My guess is that most of the felon’s voters won’t care about broken promises, as long as they feel like they’re pwning the libs. But a steady drip-drip-drip of those broken promises might peel away some of his support. On some of those broken promises, he’ll have the built-in excuse that it isn’t his fault his mouth wrote a check is ass can’t cash, and his voters will happily blame the Swamp or the Deep State or some other chimera for the felon’s failures. But if the felon couldn’t deliver on this or that promise, why did he make that promise? Can we sow some doubt about their hero, the great and powerful?
sentient ai from the future
oh, that was all theater, was it?
TW: death
https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-father-daughter-drowning-mexican-border-20190626-story.html
this shit aint theater.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
Lemme double-check. I just remember Gov. Tate Reeves bragging about it on the Now-Shitty-Site-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named just before I deep-sixed it.
And, no, I’m not going back there to look up the post. I did my rant, posted my Bluesky address, pinned it, and closed the door.
ETA: Yup. OK & TN both, 66.2% & 64.1%, respectively. MS came in at 61.3%.
Totally not surprised ol’ Tater lied.
ETA2:
BBC: How America voted in maps and charts
Chet Murthy
@gratuitous: For a century the jurisdictions of Jim Crow did worse than Northern jurisdictions. I remember reading the evidence that even at the county level, you can trace the effect of concentrations of slaves back in the day, to backwardness today. And that hurt white people too. They didn’t care: they cared more about their psychic wage. You aren’t going to change their minds by pointing out how they’re getting robbed blind: it doesn’t work that way.
All we can do is hope they get robbed hard and often, and die faster.
SomeRandomGuy
@Nukular Biskits: I think psychology “knows” that if someone talks a lot about the bible, people will assume “religious” and “decent”, and I’d assume the same grift would work with other religious books, peculiar to people who are of *that* religion (so: no dis on the bible).
Many religious people are simply performing marketing. Especially the talky ones. (Um. Hope “preforming marketing” makes sense – language proc down.)
The Audacity of Krope
@SomeRandomGuy: Don’t get me wrong; I know most Republicans, not just Trump, basically only lie. I just hadn’t connected it in that way.
I just always thought they were legitimately convinced of things that prove utterly absurd under even the barest scrutiny.
catclub
well, duh. If we can elect that bozo twice, we are neither.
WereBear
It occurred to me that all the red state women who voted yes on the referendum to protect abortion in their Constitution are relying on Democratic behavior.
If they’re in a red state? Will that still stand now?
sentient ai from the future
this is not theater (TW):
https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-father-daughter-drowning-mexican-border-20190626-story.html
yeah, forced to make a choice between consequence-free murder and viciousness, and withdrawl of money to do that kind of demagoguery, it’s not a surprise that he chose the money, because people with no moral center will always privilege their own personal benefit over anything else.
it doesnt make the atrocities they commit in the name of that self-aggrandizement any less serious
Nukular Biskits
@Chet Murthy:
I don’t know that I have an answer.
I’ve relayed this story more than once here but back in 2010, I ran for county supervisor as a Democrat. I can’t tell you the number of neighbors, friends, soccer parents, etc, who told me they wished me well, but could never vote for a Democrat (and this was with the incumbent at the time being an cantankerous asshole who regularly started fistfights with other supervisors [TRUE STORY!] and was generally an all-around asshole).
So … how do you reach people like that who are going to vote against their own interests and, despite their claims about policies, don’t give a flying fuck about policy?
Cue “Anthrax & Tire Irons”
catclub
@Baud: check out OK, WY and ID, all higher.
RaflW
@Anonymous at Work: Don’t have a link, but saw (bsky link) screen caps of a Daily Telegraph piece this afternoon that said Trump’s team was “quietly distancing itself” from RFK. Which seems very much to-type for Trump.
RFK was a useful freak during the campaign, but is probably sufficiently full of himself to probably make Donny cranky. And he famously shafts everyone who supplicates themselves to him. Some sooner, others later, and some come back for a round 2 or even 3, but everyone gets a boot in the ass from him at some point.
Nukular Biskits
@SomeRandomGuy:
I may be an outlier but anyone promoting “Christianity” (note the quotes there … I differentiate between Christianity and what I also sometimes call Christianist ideology) is automatically on my sus list as being a liar.
sentient ai from the future
@catclub:
the rest of the world has already seen how fickle we were with dubya. it really is up to us to try and neuter the worst impulses of the second fuckbag admin, if any global actor is to ever have any faith in us as a people at all.
i dont know who else they’d look to as an example of successful pursuit of lofty ideals either.
Splitting Image
@dww44:
There are no democratic elites who could do such a thing.
No billionaire is a reliable ally. Warren Buffett, Mark Cuban, Bill Gates, and even Jeff Bezos are okay on some issues, but an angry, in-your-face counter to conservative media is going to have to do a lot of yelling about the concentration of wealth and none of these guys are going to fund that.
Not only that, but any privately-held news source is always going to have the threat of being bought by one of the oligarchs and turned into the next Twitter.
We spent a lot of time laughing at Musk for how much money he was pouring into that sinkhole. Well, he just got his investment back.
Miki
@Chet Murthy: A moral compass is the only thing that can save us. Why else be a Democrat.
RaflW
@gratuitous: Riffing off a golikehellmachine thread on Bsky this afternoon, my suggestion is to blame everything, absolutely everything remotely bad on Trump (and later Vance when Don fades out).
And to be clear, it doesn’t matter if there’s any causality.
It’s baked into the American mind (and press) that presidents fix everything or break everything. So let Trump have it.
The Pale Scot
The entire world is going to go into a recession/depression. The fabulisms of Yvette Smith etc that another currency will replace the dollar is is just that, fantasy. Oil is priced in dollars, that’s the deal the Saud family cut with the US gov. China is a house of cards, nobody in their right mind would think the ruble is a store of value. Swiss francs are limited. I’ve been bearish for decade about the value of stocks, but as my multinational CFO father said, where else can you go? Its’ the only game in town
Quinerly
@RaflW:
RFK Jr thinks everything is A Ok. He’s crowdsourcing Trump’s cabinet. A Covid denier/insurrectionist who served 60 days in prison is in the running.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/11/exclusive-rfk-jr-is-crowdsourcing-cabinet-picks-for-trump/
Ohio Mom
@SomeRandomGuy: I feel honored to have been seebled.
No One of Consequence
Been trying to find a way out of the dread. And out of the speakers, Lou Reed rang like a prophet for our times:
“You can’t rely upon the Goodly-Hearted
Goodly-Hearted made lampshades and soap.
You can’t rely on a lot of things,
You need a busload of faith to get by…”
But what about those among us of the agnostic or atheistic bent, Lou? What about them?! What do we need a busload of Lou?
-NOoC
Omnes Omnibus
@No One of Consequence: Lou never specified what you needed to have faith in. Yourself? The healing power of rock and roll? Puppies? Democracy? How about picking something that works for you?
Nukular Biskits
@Omnes Omnibus:
Beer?
Kent
Geez folks. Immigration has always been a fake issue. And I don’t believe Trump is actually going to conduct mass deportations for several reasons.
First, the principal reason why immigration is even a topic is because Republicans can demagogue the rubes in order to get Trump elected as well as slates of GOPers across the ballot. That has already been accomplished.
Second, the point of “getting tough” on immigration isn’t to actually deport everyone. It is to make their status less certain and to keep undocumented in limbo so that they can be more easily exploited by low wage employers. The Texas economy absolutely depends on undocumented labor. The booming construction industry would shut down overnight without immigrant labor. Texan GOPers know this. The don’t want them gone. They just want them kicked around a bit so they don’t get too comfortable and start asking for more money and better working conditions. That is the purpose of ICE operations inside the country as opposed to at the border. If they really wanted to cut undocumented labor all they have to do is mandate E-Verify for all employers and impose big penalties for employers who don’t comply. No GOPer has ever even proposed this which is the tell.
Third, mass deportations will require state cooperation. Which isn’t going to happen in blue states. So if Trump really does turn Stephen Miller loose what would actually happen is that waves of undocumented would be driven out of places like Texas and Florida to the ruin of those economies and to the north and west to blue refuge states where they will start stimulating those economies. No one in the GOP powerbase wants all the cheap labor to move from Texas to California. they want to keep them in Texas.
My prediction? We will see lots of wall-building efforts and the occasional splashy immigration raid and a very real attempt to take down Hispanic gangs in a splashy way. But your abuelita isn’t getting deported. Nor are the construction crews that are building American cities across the sunbelt.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
@chemiclord: yep. The incoming GOP Maricopa County sheriff who was a Joe Arpaio underling was asked about picking up undocumented people. He said he’s only got 2000 deputies and needs 4000 to do just cover their current needs. He said he doesn’t have the time or the resources to go around deporting undocumented folks.
Lobo
@Nukular Biskits: We need people to run on a Independent ticket line. Not necessarily start a new party but just don’t run as a Democrat. For better or worse, Democrat is the kiss of death in some areas. Some races are cheap enough to do this or the Democratic party is too weak to help anyway.
Nukular Biskits
@Kent:
Money quote. In more than one way.
Chet Murthy
@Lobo: In order for them to have any power at all, they’ll need to caucus with Dems in order to control the Speakership in whatever legislature they’re elected. At that point, they’ll be Dems to mouth-breather voters.
Omnes Omnibus
@Nukular Biskits: Does it work for you?
Citizen Alan
@kindness: Agreed
Chet Murthy
@Nukular Biskits: @Kent: Damn straight. You wanna end undocumented immigration? Easy-peasy:
(1) mandatory e-verify, with documentation that the employer actually -did- it.
(2) stricit penalties (minimum prison time 10yr) for any employer who doesn’t use it and employs an undocumented immigrant
(3) automatic green card for any undocumented immigrant (and their immediate family) that turns in an employer who violated #1.
Presto change-o, there’d be zero undocumented immigration in weeks. Also, the entire economy would grind to a goddamn halt.
Nukular Biskits
@Lobo:
That’s one possible approach but, given how f’ing ingrained (inbred?) it is down here in MS to vote for no one but those with an “R” after their name, I’m not sure whether it would have any practical impact.
Additionally, getting your name on the ballot as an independent can be difficult, depending on the state and the race whereas getting on the D or R ticket is pretty easy.
I think (and don’t quote me on this) but for my sup race, to qualify as an independent, you needed at least 15 registered voters to sign a petition. Your experience may vary.
Nukular Biskits
@Omnes Omnibus:
Faith in beer? Or beer?
Or both?🤣
Nukular Biskits
@Chet Murthy:
WINNER! WINNER! CHICKEN DINNER!
twbrandt
@Kent: you can bet that all those “immigrant caravan” stories on Fox will suddenly disappear on 21 January 2025, now that they’ve accomplished their mission.
Chet Murthy
@Nukular Biskits: When I left the house on Wednesday, there was a team of 3 Central American guys (dark-skinned like me, only shorter with what I take to be Central American/Mayan facial geometry) working on the fence on the property where I rent. When my landlords got the roof redone, it was a team of Latin folks, only one of whom spoke English. They’re the people who do -all- the rehabbing in SF, as far as I can tell. Every time the bus goes by a house being re-roofed, it’s dark-skinned Latin-looking guys on the roof. Every time.
The entire economy would come to a goddamn halt.
SomeRandomGuy
@The Audacity of Krope: Apologies – I was flagging as a possible “Oh, did someone else need to know this?” and my brain just couldn’t process “quote, and say you agree” as an option. My brain is going in and out, with the pain, today. Most of the time, I catch the kruft that exudes from my fingers, but, pain throws my internal editor that gives final say to the “post” button, sometimes, and I say something awkward.
(Hope that all makes sense.)
Kent
What we probably need is for Democrats in places like MS to run as Republicans. That is what actually happens in blue cities like Seattle and Portland. You get centrist “Dems” running and winning who would be actual Republicans anywhere else. And they govern like centrist Republicans.
It won’t necessarily resurrect the party in MS (maybe nothing will). Just like the GOP isn’t going to stage a comeback and win office in Portland. But it will make the state better if there are more than just the MAGA cult running things.
eclare
Can we please retire the word “hopium”?
VFX Lurker
I have a 401(k). I can’t rejoice. I associate incompetent Republican governance at this point with poor stock performance and shattering crashes.
When Tang the Conqueror ascended in January 2017, I put my IRAs on autopilot with all-in-one 60/40 index funds. No matter what happened, I wasn’t gonna look. I haven’t touched them since then, except to add new funds.
I’m older now, but still many years from retirement. I’m debating whether to leave my retirement savings at 60%/40% stocks/bonds and ride out the coming storm, or reduce my stock allocation and maybe add TIPS (Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities).
Baud
@eclare:
Out: Hopium
In: Copium
Citizen Alan
@cmorenc: As awful mass deportation is going to be, what makes me want to vomit is that the bastards are going to steal immigrant children from their parents in greater numbers than before so white evangelicals can “adopt” them.
The Audacity of Krope
@SomeRandomGuy: Haha really all good.
Nukular Biskits
@Chet Murthy:
Nearly all of the houses in this development where I now live, including ours, were built within the last three years. Most of the rough-in, slab forming/finishing, framing and sheetrock work was done by Spanish-speaking (mostly) guys. Nice guys, offered ’em beers on occasion on Fridays.
Were they citizens? I dunno. There’s a large populating of Hispanic, Central/South American and other Latin culture folks here on the MS Coast.
Do I care if they weren’t? Fuck no.
If I had to guess, probably some of them were undocumented (’cause they’d get pretty quiet whenever any “authority figure” types were around) and I’m pretty damned sure the developed knew it.
At this point, I feel far safer around undocumented immigrants than I do a LOT of my fellow “Murkans”.
KatKapCC
@Kent: This sounds a little condescending about something that, I’m guessing, isn’t likely to impact you directly. This sounds very much like 2016-era “OMG you guys he won’t be THAT bad, calm down” crap. We don’t need that now.
Chet Murthy
@VFX Lurker: “I have a 401(k). I can’t rejoice.”
I take your point, BUT: My 401k is at [XXXX]. There’s a graph they put up of performance over time. It shows pretty clearly that the market rose a lot during Trump’s time [I just took the default large-cap allocation ….. in 1995, and never changed it; it is literally the -default- that was offered at the time.]. And then kept on rising during Biden’s time. I mean, honestly, I -get- the feeling that this whole thing has been rigged to transfer money to the rich: my 401k shows it, and I’m not rich!?!?! Imagine how somebody with $20m feels
ETA: What I mean is, there’s clearly a gap between “how the economy actually performs” and “how the market does”. And regardless of whether it’s Rs or Dems, the market goes up. And we -know- that that’s because the rich are taking all the spoils for themselves. So here I sit, bitter that my best attempts to impoverish myself (b/c I sure wanted steeply progressive confiscatory taxation, and would not have been satisfied until people in my bracket got hit) have failed, and the mouth-breathers, far poorer than I, have voted to enrich me instead. It’s perverse. Insanely perverse.
SomeRandomGuy
@Nukular Biskits: If I had energy, I’d search Molly Ivins columns, because she called this out A LOT. So much, I was wondering if she supported it, and… and… it’s MOLLY F___ING IVINS!
Then I twigged, “oh, no one is proposing this, why not? VERY good question!”
Where was I? Right – she wrote like Mohammed Ali boxed – that’s why she kept “work(ing) the eye” on immigration. (I know, that’s Rocky, but….) She’s got a knockout, already written. If anyone was interested in reading her enough to put the right ideas together.
YY_Sima Qian
@Kent: They can make a show of periodically deport a few tens of thousands of undocumented immigrants, as red meat to MAGA, w/o significantly affecting the labor situation. That will help to keep the undocumented population brutalized, marginalized, open to exploitation & abuse.
Nukular Biskits
@Kent:
Again, that’s a possibility but from what I’ve seen down here, I’m not sure that would work either.
The Republican base here is pretty rabid (with some weird exceptions … more on that in a sec).
During the last gubernatorial election, Tate Reeves (R) run a hard-right MAGA-style campaign tossing out the standard redmeat about transgendered people, child genital mutilation, roving bands of “illegals” killing precious little blonde-haired white girls (I’m being sarcastic here, obviously, but not by much) and vehemently opposed Medicaid expansion.
The Democratic opponent, Brandon Presley, had name recognition (relative of some guy named “Elvis”), promoted Medicaid expansion but was otherwise what I’d call “Republican-lite”; i.e., he didn’t oppose abortion restrictions nor did he push back on other rightwing narratives.
At this point, I’ll note that Medicaid expansion is very popular here in MS.
It was close, but Reeves won.
Lesson learned? Most Mississippians will STILL vote for the genuine article, the guy with a REAL “R” next to his name, even if they may not agree with his policies.
So … you tell me. These people make no fucking sense.
zhena gogolia
@gratuitous: My theory? They have not been watching his rallies or any recent appearances. They just think of him as a big blue suit and red tie, and that’s what they voted for. When he’s more visible day to day as POTUS, a lot of that support may crumble.
But what do I know.
Quinerly
@eclare:
Thank you.
lowtechcyclist
@Chet Murthy:
This is absolutely correct, and I didn’t realize this until maybe seven or eight years ago, when Virginia was blocking cities and counties from removing Confederate statues. I figured that a county would have at least the rights of a private landowner, but then it was explained to me why they didn’t even have those rights in dealing with the state government.
Lobo
@SomeRandomGuy: Again I suggest the use of Police States versus Free States terminology to describe red and blue states now.
No One of Consequence
@Omnes Omnibus: There isn’t a comedic/snark voicing tag, and I do apologize if I came across as having an existential crisis. We all are, I know, but I’m not any more so than others. Perhaps less. I’m trying to have a stoic upper lip about this, and using humor as my foil.
If poorly.
-NOoC
ETA: Lou said ‘depend’ not ‘rely’. At least in my misquote in that stanza in the original entry. Pedants unite! (for something something, oh yeah Great Justice!)
Lobo
@SomeRandomGuy:
Again I suggest the use of Police State versus Free States terminology to describe red and blue states now.
Chet Murthy
This is absolutely hilarious (b/c if you don’t laugh, you’re gonna cry, and I’m done crying) shit: https://jabberwocking.com/did-you-know-that-joe-biden-has-increased-food-stamp-benefits-43-since-taking-office/
TL;DR in the heavily Latino counties on the Texas border, they all swung -hard- to Trump. -Hard-. -Hard-. And here’s a money quote:
Look at that shit. Just look at it. Insane. And then Kevin brings the deets, and we learn that Biden has increased SNAP benefits more than inflation every damn year. Every. Damn. Year.
These people are too goddamn busy footgunning themselves to notice somebody’s stabbed them in the goddamn kidney.
ETA: That money quote is quoted by Kevin from a WaPo article, but the rest is from Kevin himself.
Chet Murthy
@Lobo: Your terminology works, but I prefer “Tyranny” vs “Democracy”. Texas is a tyranny.
Ivan X
I should not even be here. I keep trying to not come and yet here I am. Maybe time to edit hosts file. I keep looking for solace, but there isn’t any.
Here’s the scene from The Wire I keep replaying in my head. Marlo: “You want it to be one way. But it’s the other way.” They’re Marlo (the gangster). We’re the guard (who gets immediately murdered for “disrespecting” Marlo through his attempts to maintain a shred of personal dignity).
There’s also a line from Margin Call that keeps resonating with me, even though it is issued by its odious characters who helped cause the financial crash and probably would have voted for Trump: “I’m not looking for a sense of comfort here, Sarah. I don’t think there’s one to be found.”
I want to fight, and maybe I’ll be able to walk on the wound next week, but, man, the fatalism as a cope is all consuming.
KatKapCC
@Ivan X:
Ain’t that the damn truth.
Nukular Biskits
@Chet Murthy:
Couple that with this from Markos over at DailyKos:
DailyKos: What went wrong: Part 1
tobie
@Chris: Well put. A-grade bs to channel rage.
KatKapCC
@Nukular Biskits: Can I ask a dumb and very unimportant question?
How is the “Kos” in DailyKos pronounced? To rhyme with the first syllable in “cost” or with the first syllable in “most”? Or even to rhyme with “nose”?
hrprogressive
@KatKapCC:
His name is Markos Moulitsas.
Like “Marco” Polo.
Mike in Pasadena
Sorry to say this, but Harris should have at least waited to concede until California’s votes were tallied and reported. It was bad faith to concede when she did. She ran a great campaign until she did not wait for the end.
Serious Question: Would it have been so bad if she did NOT concede? Trump NEVER conceded after 2020. Conceding is not required, it’s one of those norms that Trump and his supporters discarded. Why do Democrats concede? All she had to do was wait. Say nothing. When asked if she’s going to concede she should have answered, “I don’t know. The investigations aren’t finished. Trump said the election was rigged. Maybe he was right. It certainly looked rigged. Look at Georgia and other red states. Republican governors and secretaries of state struck millions of voters, especially in cities, from the voter rolls. Republicans cheated. You’ll just have to wait. Perhaps until the votes are certified. Maybe you must wait forever.” Repeat until the reporters stop asking. Why? Give humpty trumpty and his supporters a taste of his own medicine. Shove his own words back down his wrinkled old throat. Give the guilty Republican governors and secretaries of state reason to check their underwear for brown tracks.
Harris showed bad faith to her voters by conceding before the votes were tallied. Never concede. Never give up. Never surrender.
Chet Murthy
@KatKapCC: Like the second syllable in “Marcos”.
Nukular Biskits
@KatKapCC:
TBH, I’m not sure myself.
I think it’s pronounced “Daily cose“, given his name: Markos.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Take the FDA way and they would still have deal with regulators from the EU, China, Russian Federation and Brazil. The FDA makes their life easier.
SomeRandomGuy
@eclare: I used to be Christian, and I still adore CS Lewis’ thoughts on Agape. I agree, until we here Trump is being hauled away, “hopium” sucks, but, does anyone feel all weird like me and think “liberals love” would be good branding?
“Republicans hate. Liberals love.”
“Agape” removes the romantic aspect of it. I know, for a certain type of person, this sort of branding/organization would be a fine resource.
Citizen Alan
@Nukular Biskits: One bright spot has come out of our national apocalypse that might amuse you as a fellow mississippian. I explained to my sister that there is a strong chance. We will have a government shutdown on december twentieth, and accordingly.I just don’t feel comfortable flying back to mississippi for christmas this year. She said she understood. Also, there’s been some movement on the “selling the jointly held land front.”
YY_Sima Qian
@Ivan X: Margin Call, what an under-appreciated masterpiece. & the world & the economy hasn’t changed nearly enough from that.
Chet Murthy
@Mike in Pasadena: “Harris showed bad faith to her voters by conceding before the votes were tallied. Never concede. Never give up.”
You’d like to believe that Dem voters are the sort of fire-eaters who would be happy with that sort of behaviour from their pols. But they’re not. Most of them are normies with mortgages, car payments, and they just want stability. For a Dem pol to do what you suggest, is to act to foment instability, and they would be punished, not rewarded by Dem voters. It is what it is.
KatKapCC
@hrprogressive: Ohhh gotcha. Okay. I’m sure I knew that name once upon a time, but my brain decided to toss it.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Nukular Biskits: Also might be worth sending people to the Joe Rogan show, if they are willing to brave Fox News.
KatKapCC
@Mike in Pasadena: California’s vote totals don’t matter if she didn’t win the needed swing states.
Also, maybe don’t sit here and tell an accomplished brilliant Black woman what she should have done when you have never and will never be in any position remotely equal to hers.
Baud
@Nukular Biskits:
I’m sorry, what progressive media outlet wants to fluff Democrats the way right wing media fluffs Republicans?
Baud
@Citizen Alan:
Nice.
Chet Murthy
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: As I read these comments about a liberal media Wurlitzer, I think about the real problem, which is a lack of community associations — community associations for liberals. Many of us live in areas with enough liberals that we could be finding each other in community associations, offline, and yet we don’t do it. I don’t do it. It seems to me that that’s the only solution to this problem: to reconstruct the world that existed before social media.
Do I have any answers for how to do that? No, I do not. But I think that that’s what has to happen.
Chet Murthy
@Citizen Alan: I will applaud when you never have to go back there again. Maybe you’ll go back out of nostalgia or some such. But not for any other reason; and that will be good.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Agree, this happened before during the Reagan admin and it was Republican donners who forced it stop. That’s how Pete Wilson got elected governor of California.
SomeRandomGuy
@No One of Consequence: A variant on Pascals Wager can work.
“What if you could do something you really enjoy, and, it might also bring you eternal life, and save you from possible damnation?”
Read up the Unitarian principles (or any religion, but I know some explicit atheists are UU, hence the recommendation) and if they make you think, “you know, I could *support* people who do this…” you could try my version of faith.
I’m a shaman. Do I really contact the spirits, and make changes? Beats the F out of me. *BUT* – I have faith. I do my best to act as if my shamanic tradition is as real as eggs and butter.
Why? Well – if I don’t throw myself in, I might miss some of the benefits. I act with caution before mucking with another’s spirit without explicit consent – I lay little “gift boxes” that I hope add to their joy/health/prosperity – god, you can tell I grew up with computer games, can’t you? See, I wouldn’t *do* that, without faith – I’d fart around with anyone’s spirit, because “it’s not real.”
To me, that’s the proper definition of “faith”, YMMV.
KatKapCC
Oh dear G-d. Just saw someone say in a comment on an FB post from Secretary Haaland that Trump wants to appoint Kristi Noem to be Secretary of the Interior??? Please tell me that’s not true. She’s not allowed on Native lands and she’s gonna shoot every wild animal in the face.
Ivan X
@KatKapCC: Alas.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
Good question.
None of which I’m aware.
Ivan X
@YY_Sima Qian: I am glad to share appreciation of it with someone else here! It’s really a superb film, a testament to the power of good writing, acting, and filming.
I’m comforting myself (?) with Miller’s Crossing at the moment.
TF79
While there’s always a tendency to believe that “our side” is fractured and can’t get their shit together, while “their side” all March to the same drummer, it is important to recognize that there are opposing tensions within the incoming regime that make predicting these things a challenge. That said, the possibility of the “true believers” seizing the reins is enough to keep me worried at night.
JMG
@KatKapCC: Noem, who’s quite corrupt, is a signal to the Western states monied that there’s a license to steal, as long and she (and Trump) get their cut. You may recall his first Sec. of Interior, Zinke, was too corrupt not to get caught back in ’17. I think he’s Montana’s Governor now, because frankly, Republicans would rather be robbed by one of their own if it also owns the libs.
Ivan X
@KatKapCC: we’re tired of having to be sensitive.
Tony G
@West of the Rockies: I don’t know nothin’ about nothin’, but here’s what I can foresee: 1) There will be well-publicized and very cruel deportations. 2) In return for bribes — I mean campaign contributions — well-connected businesses will still hire undocumented immigrants with the federal and state governments carefully looking the other way. 3) The publicized deportations will scare the immigrants into accepting wages and working conditions that are even lousier than usual. A win-win for the people who matter!
Chet Murthy
@Tony G: You left out
4) And that will depress wages even further for the lowest-tier of jobs taken by native Americans, which will cause even more poverty amongst them.
5) which will cause more of them to shift rightward, vote rightward, won’t that be just GRRRRREAT!
mrmoshpotato
@KatKapCC: What if Noem’s Trump trash ass gets arrested for illegal border crossing?
Chet Murthy
@mrmoshpotato: I think there’s Federal law that no federal officer can be arrested by a state while in the course of their duties. I’m betting that the courts would apply that to reservations too. She’ll have immunity.
CliosFanBoy
So they deport “illegals” from blue states first.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Chet Murthy: Consider Joe Rogan, I’ve seen him a few times, he isn’t running a conservative show, more like he’s a sort of conservative Howard Stern, his show is about getting entertaining guests. Here is a parody of Rogan interviewing Dagoth Ur from the game Morrowind. We would need something like that, rather than a liberal Alexis Jones. There are plenty of angry young liberal streaming, it’s just outside our crazy uncles, no one enjoys 24/7 negativity.
mrmoshpotato
@JMG:
So true. The idiots.
eemom
k, now that eclare has kindly broken the ice: can y’all retire fucking “normies”?
Baud
@Chet Murthy:
To be fair, we don’t really like each other all that much.
Pea
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I don’t want to downplay the threat of RFk. He’s a nut. But I don’t think he lasts long. But it will be damage. He will definitely pull as many abortion and birth control drugs from the market for future study. And if he doesn’t, he’ll be replaced by someone who will. But after that his concerns are all bougie medicine that doesn’t matter unless you’re interested in going to doctors who’ll make custom made injectables and pills for you for $1000 for your special snowflake heart. I mean ok fluoride in the water is gone. But I think the public is going to be alarmed when their fluoride toothpaste is replaced by the stuff they sell as alternatives for $18 on Amazon.
if it’s food, good luck with that. Yeah I wish there were fewer pesticides that made their way into foods. So do a lot of Dems. But good luck banning that.
Chet Murthy
@Baud: Oh come now, Baud! Surely we’d love you if we met you in-person! Uh, I mean, with your pants on of course!
SomeRandomGuy
@dww44: Here’s the problem: The Republicans don’t need facts to attack, and, liberals don’t like lies.
I keep thinking of a DS9 speech about how, if you want to win the revolution, you must be willing to kill collaborators (i.e., your own people), or they’ll use them as human shields.
I’m sure there is some kind of balance to be laid here. You’re right, I agree, we have to take the fucking gloves off and put the metaphorical brass knuckles on. (While we pray we never need the literal….)
But!!! If two parties start lying with abandon, I don’t see how it can’t end in even worse disaster, than just one lying with abandon.
Earlier, I mentioned “love” and that’s because it’s a powerful weapon, if you can figure out how to use it. Do we need to stand up to firehoses? We may need to. It might kill me, but, there might also be victims. (Sorry – morbid humor. 2gm RSO and I’m in agony. How much is that, to those of you who imbibe 5mg and 10 mg at a time? A metric fsckton.)
Oh: televised “standing up to the firehoses” seemed necessary for civil rights in the 60s, for you young’uns.)
zhena gogolia
God, everything is so fucking depressing.
How, how did we get here? How can they want that fucking asshole in power again? Why? Why? Why?
There are no answers. The universe is meaningless.
Chet Murthy
@Baud: Years ago, there was a tabletop gaming group that met at a nearby Mexican restaurant. I think I should look ’em up, just go and see if it fits at all.
zhena gogolia
Today I noticed that someone had put a sparkly red balloon on their fucking Trump sign. That just broke me.
Mike in Pasadena
@KatKapCC: Thanks for the insults. That’s what we want to see, just like the blog owner suggested. Thanks for your compliance with his request.
YY_Sima Qian
@Ivan X: I rewatch it a couple of times a year. The awe I feel for the quality in all aspects, not to mention the wit, is actually addictive.
Not good therapy for the current moment, though.
Mike in Pasadena
@Chet Murthy: Exactly what instability would follow a failure to concede? Please do tell.
Peal
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I don’t want to downplay the threat of RFk. He’s a nut. But I don’t think he lasts long. But it will be damage to women’s health. He will definitely pull as many abortion and birth control drugs from the market for future study. And if he doesn’t, he’ll be replaced by someone who will. But after that his concerns are all bougie medicine that doesn’t matter unless you’re interested in going to doctors who’ll make custom made injectables and pills for you for $1000 for your special snowflake heart. I mean ok fluoride in the water is gone. But I think the public is going to be alarmed when their fluoride toothpaste is replaced by the stuff they sell as alternatives for $18 on Amazon.
if it’s food, good luck with that. Yeah I wish there were fewer pesticides that made their way into foods. So do a lot of Dems. But good luck banning that.
Kent
Both my wife and my oldest daughter are Hispanic immigrants (and naturalized citizens) And my brother-in-law is in the queue for a family visa. So it does affect me directly.
I think Trump will be an epically bad president and go down in history as one of the worst if not worst ever.
I also think that immigration is a fake electoral issue. And the real power bases in the GOP are really much more about de-regulation and the dismantling of the administrative state as opposed to increasing it. I’m more fearful of Trump’s legacy on areas like climate and education than I am immigration. Always follow the money and when it comes to immigration, the big money and profits are on accommodating a certain level of undocumented immigration as a cheap labor pool. The big money GOP doesn’t want to give them citizenship or a path to citizenship because that would defeat the whole purpose. But they don’t want them all gone either.
Could I be wrong? Sure. It is just my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.
mrmoshpotato
@zhena gogolia:
Because he’s their asshole, and it makes liberals sad. So nice to have such a large amount of idiots in the electorate.
ETA – that idiots remark is aimed at the Rethuglican base, not you.
Chet Murthy
@Mike in Pasadena: First, let me say that I don’t hold grudge against VP Harris, nor against President Biden. This debacle is on the American people, not on Dems. That’s my belief. OK, now to your question: I think that if Harris had waited to concede, there would have been enormous screaming from the right-wing, and it might have produced actual death threats, maybe even violence. And at that point, there would be little Biden could do in the way of a vigorous response, b/c after all, Trump won, right? He. Won.
No, Harris was smart to concede at the first point where it was clear she had lost. Unless she was planning to mount a civil war, it was the only safe move available.
Chet Murthy
@mrmoshpotato: @zhena gogolia: Here is a suggestion:
(1) go back and watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOjJtEkKMX4
(2) then read this blog post by Kevin Drum: https://jabberwocking.com/did-you-know-that-joe-biden-has-increased-food-stamp-benefits-43-since-taking-office/
I commented on it here: @Chet Murthy:
Here is my claim: the Rs told these people “the people who are causing your pain are the Dems — we will hurt them”. And presto! they got their votes. Did it matter that in fact the Dems had tried to help? Nopes. Did it matter that in fact, it was the Rs who were causing that pain? Nopes. The Rs succeeded in pinning the blame on the Dems. Like they always do.
japa21
Some thoughts occurred to me while a neighbor and I were discussing the results. So many people have talked about what a great campaign Harris/Walz ran. And they did except for one thing, which I will talk about at the end of this comment.
Anyway, we all pretty much made fun of the Trump campaign as being disorganized, off the rails, etc.
Looking back, I think the Trump campaign will be studied and marveled at, not for the voters it brough to the polls, but for the voters it kept from the polls. And I am not talking voter suppression, or anything like that.
Remember when Trump said, “We don’t need any more votes, we have all the votes we need”? Everybody thought that meant they were going to sabotage the election. But no, it meant exactly what he said. The campaign had to decide: Do we do everything we can to keep our base or do we try to attract new voters. Going after new voters would have been risking the base. Solidifying the base would mean not attracting new voters. They also knew that the base was solid as long as they didn’t do anything to alienate them. So their decision was to focus on the base.
But they also knew that there weren’t enough base voters to beat the numbers Harris would get if she kept all Biden’s voters. Oh, they knew she might lose a few due to misogyny or racism. But thew question was, would it be enough? The answer was probably not.
Somehow, they had to convince Biden voters not to vote for Harris, which likely also meant not voting for other Dems down ticket. The developed a plan, and I think it was evil, devious and, unfortunately effective. They decided to focus on 3 things.
1. The economy, which has been talked about a lot. Sure they lied, but it struck chords. There were just enough Biden voters that looked at their circumstances and said, “Yeah, there’s something to that”. They couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Trump, so they stayed home.
2. Immigration. Again, lied their heads off, but it worked. Again with just a small percentage of Biden voters, maybe 1-2%, but it made a difference.
3. Transphobia. The last few weeks of the campaign really hit hard on this, including ads focusing on Harris being for funding sex-change operations for illegal immigrants with federal money. Transphobia, or nonunderstanding of transgender issues has always been an Achilles heel for the Dems. Probably another 2-3% drop here.
All these added up. Very few of the voters impacted by this actually switched their votes from Harris to Trump. But it was enough to demoralize them into not voting.
The Harris/Walz campaign was as fooled as we were by the veneer of incompetency and never figured out how to counter this approach by the Trump campaign. Sort of how Adam points out how Russia has been attacking the West through various propaganda techniques and the West still hasn’t figured out how to counter it.
There are a few there reasons Dem votes dropped which I’ve discussed before. But I think this approach by the Trump campaign was the final touch.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
@Chet Murthy: and yet they kept indicted Democrat Henry Cuellar. I know several people in Phoenix who moved from McCallen which is in Hidalgo County which went GOP the first time in a century. They talk about the poverty wages in McCallen. They are shocked by the wages in Phoenix. They act like Phoenix wages are like NY or LA wages.
SomeRandomGuy
@CliosFanBoy: Also, how the fuck can they care about “Migrant Crime” if they ship folks to sanctuary cities!
@Chet Murthy: Honestly, Dems just don’t have the dickishness in them to say “we’ll provide all the transition access the Trump team provided my administration,” but, again, I ask myself, are we nazified enough that they *should*, just to prove they know we’re in a knife fight?
We are. They pardoned a guy, who shot someone, who witnesses swore never *touched* his lawfully open-carried rifle. I don’t even need to say “but, the victim was a BLM protestor, whose most fundamental civil right vanished, the moment his killer was ‘scared’. How is this equal protection?
This wasn’t even exoneration – this was a PARDON, when a TEXAS jury convicted him. They say “you can kill them and get away with it,” with their actions. We really are in a literal knife fight. They’ll kills us when they can. Oh, not *all* Republicans chase and murder joggers who happen to be Black, but, SOME Republicans think it’s fine to commit crimes, and claim self defense if their *victim* refuses to play victim.
Ahem. Knife fight.
KatKapCC
@Mike in Pasadena: What insults? Am I wrong? Did you once serve as Vice President? Or CA state AG? Or a Senator? Do you plan to hold those positions one day? If it’s “insulting” to you to simply acknowledge what I assume is that fact that you are not nor ever have been nor ever will be in any of those jobs, then I guess I didn’t know the definition of “insult”.
You are sitting here, never having been put into the role she was suddenly thrust into, and raking her over the coals because she didn’t do things the way you think she should have, when you — and I say this as a factual comment — have no idea what it is like to be in that role. Your comment sounded pompous and self-righteous, and especially when said to a Black woman with a stellar resume and a brilliant mind comes across as pretty fucking repugnant.
But sure, make it all about your hurt feelings over some imagined insult I gave you that did not exist.
Chet Murthy
@Mai Naem mobile ¹: I certainly don’t know, but here’s a guess: When the Dixiecrats crossed over to the GOP, and the Solid South started turning Republican, there were still Dems left over who kept their seats, and kept them for a long time. Sure, they were somewhat conservative, but they still caucused with the Dems in Congress. One-by-one, they died off/retired, and where replaced by Rs. Maybe Cuellar is like one of those leftover Dems.
I sure don’t know, but it seems like a likely explanation.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
@japa21: i knew the transgender ad was showing to be effective because I saw it so much. This was on TV not online aimed at me by some algorithm. I am pretty sure that ad ran more than the criminal illegal aliens one or inflation one.
Mike in Pasadena
@Chet Murthy: Ok, good arguments. There is no law requiring a concession speech. It’s a norm that’s been discarded by Republicans. I still think she could have waited until the California vote was tallied. Then at least we would have known a more accurate idea of the loss. But, ok, whatever. It was just a thought experiment. You made good points. Thank you. Can’t say that for Kat who resorted to outrage and insults without substance of any kind, just trumpian anger.
KatKapCC
@Mike in Pasadena: Dude, I did not insult you! I simply pointed out that you have never been in the jobs she has. How is that an insult?
This:
was not me commenting on your worth as a human being or something. It was literal. “Position” meaning her job. This was not an insult. WTF.
japa21
@Mai Naem mobile ¹: It was the closing argument on why not to vote for Harris. It wasn’t meant to gain Trump voters.
Chet Murthy
@SomeRandomGuy: “Ahem. Knife fight.”
People say “Texas is not a Red states; it’s a voter suppression state”
That is self-delusion. Texas is a tyranny. In a -tyranny- you expect stuff like that: vigilante murder that never gets prosecuted. I mean, what is even the -point- of discussing that? It’s TEXAS.
I put to you that you’re expecting somehow that there’s something we can do to fix (or even just -improve-) the situation in Texas. And I put to you that there is nothing we can do. So get your family and friends out of Texas: that’s the only solution. Yes, it’s not easy. Yes, many people cannot afford it. But guess what? Lots of undocumented immigrants come to the US, to California, and somehow managed to survive. People in Red States need to recognize that they are just like those undocumented immigrants. They need to stop thinking of themselves as Americans, with the American Birthright. They’re immigrants-in-everything-but-name. They need to act that way.
We tried. We tried really, really hard. Hell, as Adam Silverman said, this community did everything we could. We really tried. At some point, you have to recognize reality. You have to cut your losses and save what can be saved. For me, that means that next cycle, if I’m still in the US, I’m going to be donating to California races, even if they look solid and safe. B/c it matters to keep California Blue. It is what it is.
Chet Murthy
@Mike in Pasadena: can I just say: we’re all going to react in anger to each other from time-to-time here. I’m going to do it. That I didn’t do it against you, doesn’t mean that I won’t do it against somebody else. We’re all hurting. This morning I was half-awake, and day-dreaming about suicide. [No, don’t worry, I never make plans. My only plan consists in flying to a gun rights state, buying a pistol, and offing myself in the parking lot. That’s not a plan: that’s just a fantasy.] We’re all hurting. I’ve felt repeatedly that I need to cry (and as I write these words, it’s starting again).
We’re all in great pain, and we’re all at the point of crying, of screaming, of lashing out. We’re going to do it to each other. So the only thing we can do is try to not hold it against each other. Sure, try not to lash out, but it’s going to happen. Just try not to hold it against each other.
And as I write these words, I really, really need to cry, but can’t manage the tears. ugh.
dww44
@Chet Murthy: if we want to take back power we must create a mefia alternative. The misinformation and outright lying about us has and must be countered in the media space if we are to regain power. We don’t get parity from legacy for-profit legacy media. We’ve got to create our own
i just signed on to WP which I had not done n days to read the linked Dana Willbank opinion piece. The overall take is the paper is beating up on Democrats, Biden, and Harris. It was horrifying. We have to create our own competitive omnipresent outlet or outlets that are not behind paywalls.
Right now on Chris Hays he’s talking to Heather McGee and Michelle Goldberg. McGee says that democrats have a media problem as the conservatives dominate everywhere. We have to address this.
Chet Murthy
@Mike in Pasadena: One other thing I’ll say about VP Harris’ concession: imagine that she’d decided to wait. She’d have to concede eventually. And -eventually- she’d no longer be VP. Former VPs get SS details for … SIX MONTHS after their term office. That’s it. That’s IT.
Can you imagine? She’s not rich like R-money. She can’t afford a personal security detail for the rest of her life. Can you imagine?
Tazj
@Chet Murthy: I just read that blogpost by Kevin Drum before I came here. I wasn’t aware of that myself, that he had increased the amount of food stamps people were eligible for.
I was also reminded of Biden’s expanded child tax credit (on a Twitter post Rachel Cohen). That tax credit decreased child poverty by an incredible amount but Joe Manchin and every Republican were against extending it without a work requirement. And the policy didn’t poll well either.
I’m just bringing these things up because Republicans, some Democrats and the media want us to be all “by my fault, by my fault, by my most grievous fault, we don’t care about working class people and it’s BS.
Mike in Pasadena
@KatKapCC: Maybe insult isn’t the perfect description of making a personal accusation against someone you know nothing about. But go ahead, blather on your rightous indignation without substantively responding to the proposal. Look at my original post at 150. I said she ran a great campaign until she did not wait for the end. Californians are taken for granted. Conceding several days before our votes are counted ASSUMES California is in the bag for Democrats. More Californians voted for trumpty dumpty than voters in many red states. It wasn’t that long ago that we had Republican governors. Don’t assume the state will always help Democrats win. Ignoring California is exactly the sort of tactic that will create apathy in the Democrats here. If Democrats want the electoral votes and the Democratic Senators and Representatives that we send to DC, tell us. We’ll stop knocking on doors. We’ll stop sending money. Is that what you are telling me by lecturing me about how I’ll never be as wonderful as Harris? Ok. I’ll be sure to let fellow Californians know that the Democrats no longer want us. Thanks
Chet Murthy
@Mike in Pasadena: @KatKapCC: C’mon guys, please stop. This isn’t helping either you or us. Please?
Eolirin
@Kent: The big money business part of the GOP is not the one running the show. McCarthy is gone, McConnell is marginalized.
Thiel is a lunatic in a bunch of ways. Miller is a sadistic psychopath. So are a lot of the other people surrounding Trump. There are people in the inner circle chomping at the bit to get rid of birthright citizenship.
I would be far less sanguine about how this ends.
Contra to the theme of Mix’s post, this whole the rich people and their interests will restrain the fascist party never works out in practice. It’s exactly what the Germans thought when they elevated Hitler, and we see how that worked out. The rich get eaten just as much as anyone else who gets in the way.
Have a damn plan to get them out if you need to. If you wait until it’s clear you’re going to need it it will already be too late.
KatKapCC
@Mike in Pasadena: I am a “fellow Californian”, for one thing. The “CC” in my username stands for Central Coast. But now you’re moving the goalposts, rather than just admitting you misread something and went off on me.
Grow up, bro.
Warren Senders
@Kent: Maybe hire some circus geeks from central casting to run as Rs in heavily red districts. They can bite the heads off chickens and set their farts on fire instead of debating their primary opponents, win in a landslide, and then, voila, the reveal!
Chet Murthy
Reasonable people can differ on this. I think that there’s simply no way to have a liberal media that has the kind of reach and stickiness of conservative media. And the more I think about it, I think that we can reshape the problem as “The Dems have a civic association problem.” I’m not saying that I’m any better at this than anybody else here. Heck, many of you have attended meetups, but I never have. But maybe what the Dems need, is to start creating clubs — clubs of all kinds, including Balloon-Juice pet-friendly club! Maybe instead of B-J folks meeting every N months — so there are a few each year, the B-J folks in each metro area should try to meet every month? Maybe we need to work with other major Dem internet sites to get clubs created in all sorts of interest areas, in all the major and minor cities where Dems are abundant.
I’m just talkin’ out my ass. But I just don’t believe that -media- is something Dems can win at. But hey, I could be wrong.
Mike in Pasadena
@Chet Murthy: I did not say or think you reacted with anger. I thanked you for your reply. I don’t think my comment at 150 was anger other than the concern that an early concession sends a message to Californians that we don’t matter, our donations to campaigns don’t matter, our postcards don’t matter, sending Democrats to Congress doesn’t matter. Nothing you wrote read as anger. Don’t even consider self harm. Stay with us. Your comments matter.
frosty
@CliosFanBoy: Several blue states are already on record that they won’t comply. No National Guard or State Police support.
Mike in Pasadena
@KatKapCC: Back atcha, sport. Bro. Whatever. It read like you werer trying very hard to insult me. But thanks for your thoughtful, angry replies.
Chet Murthy
@Mike in Pasadena: Mike, c’mon, man. Please? Somebody’s gotta decide not to lash out in return. Please?
frosty
@Chet Murthy: If this sort of thing keeps up my comments will be a sea of desserts with only some funny snarky ones from Baud left.
No pie yet, but there are lots of blocks of text I’ve skipped over today. Oh, and people? Paragraph breaks are your friend.
KatKapCC
@Mike in Pasadena: I only got angry when you did. You misread me. You took my words in an incorrect way. I explained what I meant. You are still choosing to be pissed at me. You are now acting like a child throwing a tantrum. Since I am an adult, I’m done with this. Maybe one day you’ll realize you made a fool of yourself here, but I’m not waiting.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
@japa21: i guess I didn’t make it clear I meant effective in turning off Dems+Indies, not getting tfg voters.
Lyrebird
@Chet Murthy: I know I often disagree with you, which will continue, but I am sorry you’re feeling all that right now, and I hope you find the right thing that lets you have a good cry.
Was going to rail at you about Dems in red states but jiminy crickets, enough about self-harm fantasies – you contribute so much here and probably lots at your work, too. Hang on… (looking, not finding…) I think it’s in the next thread where there’s some reminders not to let those RWNJ fkers get *us* all lost in misery, at least to thwart them in some way! (ETA key pronoun)
If all of what I have said rubs you the wrong way, please ignore it.
Lyrebird
Just wanna say that this response from you (to someone else, obvs) helped me get through some of the misery this evening, thank you.
Tony G
@Eolirin: Well, some of the rich Germans did just fine under Hitler. That slave labor in the camps really improved the bottom line. And then, after the war was over, the new American overlords in West Germany didn’t want to screw up the new Cold War by prosecuting the plutocrats as war criminals.
Chet Murthy
@Tony G: I think I read an article about this very subject. There were a few of the magnates who didn’t do so well: IIRC typically they had reservations about some of Hitler’s policies (like Thyssen), but most of the ones who stuck by him unquestioningly were rewarded nicely, and many came out of the war with, yes as you say, control over industries and did nicely after the war too.
ETA: the lesson being, don’t ever, ever, ever allow any daylight between you and the Maximum Leader. Stick to him like a tongue to an ass.
Tony G
@Chet Murthy: Yes; good point. And actually, accordingly to my Economics 101 education, the poverty wages that will “secretly” be paid to undocumented immigrants will depress the wages of ALL workers, regardless of ethnicity. It will be like Ayn Rand arising from the dead and taking her rightful place as the Queen of Galt’s Gulch!
Tony G
@Chet Murthy: Yup. My wife is from Japan and I know a tiny bit about that country. A similar dynamic occurred there. The same corporations that made a lot of money during Japan’s imperialist era continued to make a lot of money after Japan was bombed to rubble and occupied by the U.S. The moral of the story is: Make sure you’re born rich.
Kent
No tribe in their right mind would ever arrest Trump’s secretary of interior unless they want every last dime of Federal funding cut off due to Trump’s wrath. And/or see their entire tribe and reservation lose Federal recognition.
They will roll out the welcome wagon.
YY_Sima Qian
@Tony G: Studies have shown that the old professional & monied class of pre-revolution Shanghai (at least those that did not flee the CPC advance in ’49), who were dispossessed of most of their holdings in the ’50s, who were targeted for discrimination, “struggle” & oppression during the Anti-Rightist Campaign of the early ’50s & the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution in the ’60s – ’70s, still on average managed to accumulate wealth (& thus recover their social standings) much more quickly in the decades of Reform & Opening from the ’80s on, compared to other cohorts. Many recovered at least part of their dispossessed real estate properties, which were then were parlayed into huge asset holdings during the long real estate boom. Some had the language skills & western education to serve as bridges for the burgeoning trade & scientific collaborations. Some had relatives who fled to HK, TW or the US, & were then in the position to attract these talents (& the capital they could bring) back to the PRC. (The Shanghai elites that fled to HK, TW & the US on average did well for themselves, too, despite the disruption.)
The human capital from better education, & access to formerly elite networks that would inevitably try to reestablish itself when given the chance, these advantages can endure for a surprising long time (w/in living memory?).
Nettoyeur
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Er, no. It has long been illegal to deport a US citizen or deprive him/her of citizenship. That is not something even this SC will support. The only exception is when someone lied to get citizenship, as did some former Nazi war criminals.
beckya57
@@mistermix.bsky.social: we’re already planning for this on the West Coast. I too expect minimal true deportations, because business needs those workers. We will however see a lot of performative cruelty, and Trump will be picking fights with blue states, try to send in the National Guard etc. Our governors are already releasing statements about their plans to combat all that, along with governors of other blue states (Mass, NY, IL). I think we’ll be ready.
Darkrose
@Mike in Pasadena: Conceding before the votes are counted in CA is reality. She’d already lost PA, MI, WI, GA, and NC. California’s votes weren’t going to get her to 270 at that point. Why bother to hang on and refuse to concede when there was no hope? As a Californian, that would not have made me feel better. It would make me feel much, much worse because I already knew it was over as soon as Pennsylvania was called.
You want to be mad at someone, be mad at the slaver founding fathers who put the Electoral College and the Senate in place, so that despite being the most populous state in the country and the fifth largest economy in the world, we’re effectively disenfranchise in national politics. Being mad at the Black woman for acknowledging reality is…not the right call.
Chris T.
Prediction: the Trump admin will attempt mass deportations. They’ll round up a bunch of people (without actually checking whether they’re “legal”, i.e., already citizens) and stick them in detention (concentration) camps. Then they’ll find out that deporting is hard, and employ the Final Solution.
Meanwhile, Trump himself will be dead within two more years, whether from natural causes or from Vance poisoning his hamberders or whatever. Whether he takes out the U S of A as an entity (remember, ETTD) is not clear, but many things will change.
sab
@Chris T.: Fuck off on your “final solution” shit. We have rules in this country and the more you normalize abnormal behavior the more you weaken our actual rules. So just fuck off.
Sounding harsh here against an ally but…
Just predict yourself away. I know you don’t want this shit but please don’t discuss it like it is possible. That normalizes it. Anything is possible, but the less we normalize it the less it is likely.
SomeRandomGuy
@Chet Murthy: I didn’t know if you understood what I was saying. In a knife fight, you either try to kill your opponent or bleed him to death.
Just because I was talking about *speaking* nasty (IIRC) doesn’t mean I wasn’t serious that we were in a literal, they have the knife out and will gladly kill us, *KNIFE FIGHT*. Which means your saying “leave now” just means you’re discussing different aspects of the battle – not that we disagree on what the battle *is*.
SomeRandomGuy
@sab: Some level of “booga booga” is necessary. It’s an extremely dangerous situation. Would Trump let his beloved friend Kim Jung Un take over South Korea? Beats me, but that’s just it: no one really knows. He really is senile.
I’m not saying you were wrong to say what you did, though – we don’t have to catastrophize *everywhere*, and maybe we should have “no catastrophic predictions” thread.
SomeRandomGuy
@japa21: Those were the main campaign *THEMES* they lied about, but they lied, each and every day.
Don’t forget the biggest, most despicable lie of all, the lie of omission that fails to state “yes, he’s dangerous” because they’re such chickenshits.